September 8, 2025 • 38 mins
Ever felt like your business looks successful on the outside… but feels completely off on the inside?
That’s exactly what happened to my friend Caroline Hull. She built a thriving podcast agency, rebranded, grew a team, did all the things she was “supposed” to do — and still felt disconnected. Throw in AI shaking up the podcasting industry, and it became clear: it was time to pivot.
In this episode, we chat about:
- How to know when your business is no longer aligned
- What a rebrand and full business pivot actually looks like
- Why forcing yourself to keep chasing trends leads to burnout
- How stepping into alignment changes the way you create content (and how people respond to it)
If you’ve been wondering whether it’s time to pivot your business or rebrand, Caroline’s story will give you permission and perspective to make the changes you know you need.
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
👉 Grab Caroline’s free meditation: www.carolinehull.com/meditation
👉 Connect with Caroline on Instagram: www.instagram.com/carolinethevoicekeeper
👉 Get Sydney's Buyer Journey Content Map: https://sociallyyours.biz/buyerjourneycontentmap
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Sydney (01:01):
Today I'm really excited to talk to Caroline because she like me
made a kind of shift in her businessand she's also the reason that I felt.
Like confident in makingthe shift in my business.
So I'm really excited to share herexpertise and knowledge with you all
in case this is something you havebeen feeling lately or if maybe you're
(01:24):
showing up in a way that doesn't quitefeel like you or doesn't feel aligned
if your work doesn't feel aligned.
So Caroline, can you tell us a littlebit about the changes you made and why?
Caroline Hull (01:35):
So I have been in the online business world for,
I don't know, 10 plus years now.
And I've had severaliterations of my business.
And this last one was, Iwould dare say one of my best.
I was a podcast strategist and managerand editor, and I had grown that business.
(01:59):
You know, the way that everybody saidI should grow my business, right?
Like I did the whole agency thing.
I had a team of six plus at sometimes wewere running between 20 and 30 podcasts
a week, and it felt very, I don't know.
It was really interesting.
Like I remember we rebrandedmy business because I wanted
(02:21):
to take my name off the sign.
And I kept saying that like Iwanted to take my name off the sign.
And so it became this thing thatI was very disconnected from.
Like the business was running without me.
It was great.
And then , AI came onto the scene.
And kind of took over the podcastingindustry and how podcasts were
created and it really changedthe work that we were doing.
(02:43):
And it was definitely one ofthose like evolve or die moments.
And I'll be completely honestwith you, I did not evolve.
I was like so anti AI when it firstcame onto the scene, but it was
also right around that time that Istarted thinking to myself because.
Remember I had taken my name off the sign.
(03:04):
I had always had an agency.
I'd always had like a someonewho managed my team for me.
So when I started steppingback into the work.
I was very much realizing that thatwas not the work that I wanted to be
doing, and I also knew that what Iwanted to be doing was much deeper.
I wanted to be coaching, I wanted to beworking with people, and through all of
(03:28):
this, I was also going on like this reallybig life spiritual journey of my own and.
I don't know.
I just was really feeling called.
It's hard to explain, but I really,really was feeling called to do something.
Deeper.
And so I decided to take somecertifications, see if it was
(03:50):
something I was interested in.
And of course, as I was taking mycertification classes, I fell in love
with it and even more, and I felt likelife was too short, why wait And decided
to completely change my business.
I transitioned everything.
I rebranded back into my name.
So the business is now myname, which is really funny.
(04:10):
And instead of being a podcast strategist,I am now a spiritual life coach.
So, big switch.
Sydney (04:17):
Yes,
Caroline Hull (04:17):
Yes.
Sydney (04:18):
big, but I.
Really love this for you.
Honestly, just as someone who worked withyou, like both before when you were like
doing podcast strategy and now after theway you get so excited about your work
now is catching like working with you.
Now was such a great experience andit's just talking to you about it.
(04:38):
I can tell.
It just feels so much better for you.
Caroline Hull (04:42):
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's really interestingbecause I had done coaching for many
years, like, 'cause I was working withpodcasters who were creating content, and
you and I have talked about this a lot.
Off air in our own time, but when you'recreating content, there's something about
it that brings up a lot of personal stuff.
And I found myself, like I wasn'tcoaching people on their podcast.
(05:06):
I was coaching them through likeconfidence and sharing what really
mattered to them and how to showup in a way that feels aligned.
And so it was really interestingbecause before I even like decided
that I was going to completely switchthe way that I worked, I was already
sort of working in that way and alreadytouching on a lot of the things that.
(05:29):
You know, I would laterlearn in my coaching classes.
It was so funny 'cause I was taking myfirst, so I got us, I got us two spiritual
, certifications and spiritual coaching.
And then I got one in life coaching.
And it was so funny because asI was taking them I was like,
yeah, I've been doing this.
Yeah, they've been doing this like,yeah, this is the stuff I've been working
on with my clients this whole time.
(05:51):
And so it really was anatural progression for me.
But I think stepping into it fullyhas just completely changed how I
show up in the world in the best way.
Sydney (06:04):
And I feel like creating content once you are more excited to share like
what you're doing and it doesn't feellike this stressful thing is always so
nice too and makes it so much easier.
Caroline Hull (06:15):
Oh yeah.
I mean, I'm sure we'll talkabout this more, but like.
Not only has it changed the way Icreate content, it's changed how
I feel about the content I create.
And it's changed how I feel aboutthe time that I spend creating
the content that I create.
Like it's, it's been this completetransformation of like how I'm
actually showing up online.
(06:36):
And it's been really fascinating to gothrough that because I literally went
from, in my podcasting business, I hated.
Creating reels like hated creatingInstagram posts because it felt so
performative to, oh, I actually likethis a lot to now I've evolved to
this place of I don't have to do that.
(06:58):
So do I want to, and like, not evenlike feeling that like outward you
know, that external pressure fromthe online business world to show up
anymore, like that is completely gone.
And it's, it's really fascinating howmuch that has shifted just because
I've stepped into full alignmentwith the work that I'm doing.
(07:19):
It's really interesting to actuallythink about and talk about.
Sydney (07:22):
Yeah, I'm.
Seeing that and how I create contentas well now, like strategist, like I
was, I felt like I had to be on top ofall the trends and like pay such close
attention to these things and likepost on Instagram pretty consistently.
And now it's just like,I'll do it when I'm ready.
It's just like a hugeweight off my shoulders.
And I can easily talk about likewhat I want to say without feeling
(07:47):
that like pressure to be like,oh, I'm an Instagram strategist.
I have to get like.
Highest reach I have to like hop onthis trend to show I know my stuff.
But it's also like I have alwayssaid, vanity metrics don't matter.
And I feel like I feel that evenmore now that everything feels more
aligned, like when you're speakingto the right people and be like your
(08:10):
truth about what your work is and yourmission and everything, it, that is
so much more impactful than focusingon like numbers and trends and stuff.
Caroline Hull (08:20):
Yeah, it's been really fascinating because I have noticed in the
last couple of weeks, especially, wellmaybe the last month, let's be honest.
The engagement that I have experiencedwith my content, the, the comments on
YouTube, the, you know, people reachingout to me to say, oh my gosh, I identified
with this, has like shot through the roof.
(08:42):
And when I was doing podcast strategy,I was always trying to create
podcast episodes that were an exampleof really good podcast strategy.
And I was getting very burned out likea, I was tired of talking about podcast
strategy 'cause I've been talking aboutit for like five years at this point.
Also B, it just didn't feel like me.
It felt, like I said performative.
(09:02):
I use the word performative a lotbecause I think that's something
a lot of us experience, especiallyin the online space, is this very
performative way of creating content.
Especially those of us who are B2B people.
Like we feel like because wework with business owners, we
have to have everything togetherand it has to look perfect.
And I found myself becoming obsessed withthat to the point that it was detrimental.
(09:25):
Two, my podcast and my podcast growth.
And since I've just like released all ofthat and I've also like fully embraced
this experimentation, like I'm just gonnatry different stuff because I can now,
because I'm not, nobody's watching me.
Like I don't care.
It's been interesting.
My podcast downloads have shot up.
My engagement's up.
(09:45):
When I post on Instagram or TikTok, Iget tons of new followers, tons of likes,
tons of comments, and I'm not trying.
And I think that has been such ahuge realization for me because I
mean, I have literally spent thelast 10 years of my life trying so
hard in the online business space.
And I think that's justreally a testament to that.
(10:08):
When you're doing something that isfully aligned and you're able to show
up fully as you and not be performative.
Then all of that stuff is justnatural and you don't have to
fight for it quite so much.
Sydney (10:21):
I love that so much.
I'm so happy for you.
I know I said it already, but I really am.
Like that is just like the dream, I think.
Now have you noticed any changes tolike, I feel like a lot of the times our
business and personal lives kind of mesh.
Have you noticed the positivity you'regetting from your business, into
personal life, like less stressed?
(10:41):
Are you feeling better?
Caroline Hull (10:44):
Oh yeah.
110000%.
You know, and that, that was a hugecatalyst for me making this shift as well.
As much as I love.
I still love podcasts so much.
I think it's an incredible medium thateverybody should embrace, but as much as I
loved it, I, it was a very stressful gig.
(11:05):
It was stressful to wake up everymorning and like check the feeds and,
you know, if a client emailed me, Iwould like drop everything in my life.
I homeschool my kids.
So it felt very.
Intrusive into my life and, andlike you said, very stressful.
Because the work I do now is socentered on what's going on inside.
(11:27):
It's almost like a huge excuse for me tolike, take the time to work on my inside.
Like, I mean, my, my life is somuch more balanced than it ever was.
But I also feel more likemyself than I ever have.
And that also was a reallyhuge part of the journey was
like rediscovering who I was.
(11:47):
Because I'm a 40 something mom, you know,I've been through a lot in my life, and
like I said, I've been in the onlinebusiness world for 10 years and I've
spent the bulk of that time trying toemulate the people that I see around me.
And when I stopped doing thatand started being myself fully.
(12:07):
It just like bled into everything.
And it really, for me started with, Isaw this really great TikTok one day, and
I, I feel so terrible because I didn'tsave it, so I can't credit this person.
But somewhere in the middle of myjourney, I saw TikTok and she said, dress
to make your 15-year-old self proud.
And that like changed my lifebecause I immediately was like my
(12:29):
15-year-old self would be so mad.
Like, she would just be reelinglike, what have you done, Caroline?
Like, we weren't gonna have kids.
We were gonna live in the cityand we were gonna wear all black.
Like, what are you doing?
You know, we were gonnahave tattoos and piercings.
What's going on?
And, and so I started with like, justmaking some little shifts like that.
(12:51):
And it was funny how, how easierit became to show up online.
When I started like beingmyself in my everyday world.
Does that make sense?
Like it's all connected.
That I think that's what we, we,we forget, is how much the work
that we're doing is so connectedto everything else in our lives.
Sydney (13:14):
It absolutely is.
And I feel like your 15-year-old self andmy 15-year-old self , would be friends
Caroline Hull (13:20):
Oh, totes.
Sydney (13:21):
was like absolutely the same way.
And I totally saw that same TikTok andwas like, you know what, this is true.
And then I went shopping andwas like, I need to , yeah.
And that's, I was like ahuge part of it for me too.
That's so funny.
Like that same TikTok.
Yes, absolutely.
what that shopping trip actually is.
Why I got that Easy Bakecoven shirt that you like.
Caroline Hull (13:42):
Oh my gosh.
This is my favorite shirt.
No, I, every time you wear that shirt,I like, I send you a message and I'm
like, I want your shirt like every time.
Sydney (13:50):
Yeah.
It's so good.
Yeah.
That's
Caroline Hull (13:53):
Love it.
Sydney (13:54):
'Cause there is so much that as much as we wanna like.
Put up boundaries and separatelike work life from personal life.
I think when it's kind of impossiblewhen you're an online business
owner like we are, I don't know.
It, it seems very difficult,especially when, you know, you and
I also homeschool, so we're doingit like in these like weird kind of
(14:17):
pockets of time, like schedule-wise.
It just makes it really hardto separate it completely.
So finding a way to make it worktogether so you're not, kind of like
resentful maybe might be the word Iwant of like the time I was on, like
work when I wanted to be with thekids or when I was with the kids.
(14:37):
And I was like, I have thisemail that I need to respond to.
That like stressed out feeling.
I hated it.
And that was also a big catalyst for me.
Do you think when you talk toother people, that's like one of
the big indicators, there's a,a shift that needs to be made?
Caroline Hull (14:51):
Yeah, I think that is a huge one that I see a lot.
It's this, it's this idea of the shoulds.
Right, like, I should be doingthis, I should be doing that.
Because that's what we've seen.
And I know that we have all heardpeople say like, you can build
a business the way you want to,just like you can build your life.
But it feels so unattainable.
(15:14):
It feels so hard becausewhat we are modeled.
Is not that at all.
And let's be honest, we live in a very,like, our culture is very hustle oriented.
You know, we were, most of uswho are my age were raised by
post World War ii work ethic.
Like you need to be, you needto have a job, you need to have
(15:34):
benefits, you need to have thehouse, the car, you know, the 2.5
kids and the dog.
Like, there are all theseshoulds that are in our lives.
And I think what happens to a lot ofpeople is they, they follow the shoulds.
They do the shoulds all the time, whetherthey know they're doing them or not.
And then they wake up one dayand they realize that everything
around them is a should and notsomething that is in alignment.
(15:59):
And it may not be everything.
You know, for me it wasn't everything.
My kids are not out of alignment.
Okay.
I love them.
I love my kids, I love my husband,I love my, the home we've built.
But just like you said, how I wasspending my time in those, those pockets.
Was was not how I wantedto be spending my time.
And I think what happens iswe don't know an alternative.
(16:22):
It's hard for us to find an alternativebecause we wanna be successful, we wanna
have a successful business, we wanna begreat parents, we wanna be great partners.
You know, all of those things.
And so it's hard to find our, our path.
And I think a lot of that comesdown to listening to your inner
voice, which is really, really hard.
(16:43):
We live in a very noisy, chaotic time.
It's really hard to hear ourselves,and it's especially hard to hear
yourself when you're having tobe everything for everyone else.
So I find that it's really likea catalyst of a lot of things.
But I definitely think, you know, soI'm, I'm running a challenge this week
(17:06):
and, and day one of the challenge waslike looking around and what are the
things that I'm carrying that I don'tneed to be carrying, you know, because
we all are carrying so many things, andthat's just like with my, my business, I
would carry, I was carrying the success.
Of my client's podcasts onmy shoulders all the time.
(17:30):
And I felt like, no, you know, I wouldgive them all the things, I would
make the plan, and if they didn'tfollow it and weren't successful,
I still placed that responsibilityon myself and it wore me down.
And I think especially in such a,you know, in the online business
world where everything is, like yousaid, vanity metrics, everything is
numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers.
(17:51):
After a while, those numbersstart to feel more important than
the actual work you're doing.
And you know, I've worked with peoplerecently where it wasn't really
about creating the thing or havingthe numbers, it was really about
how do I feel when I'm doing this?
And so to your point about like,you know, building a business that.
(18:14):
Actually works for your life.
Like what would that look likeif we actually stopped and
said, how do I feel about this?
And so it's been a reallyinteresting experiment to be on
this side of like the transition,like having changed my business.
And now, because I'm basically startingover from scratch, I get to stop and
say, well what, what actually feels good?
(18:35):
And I just think if we actuallylet ourselves do that with a lot
of things in life, it would totallychange how we felt about the things
that we spend our time doing.
Sydney (18:44):
I 110% agree.
And when you were talking about how likethe, we live in like a very like, hustle
oriented world and it's very noisy.
It super is.
And I think as online business owners,when we spend so much time online for
like networking and marketing and doingresearch and, especially if you're
a solopreneur and you don't have ateam and you're trying to learn like.
(19:06):
Marketing over here, like maybebookkeeping, podcasting, like all these
different facets for your business.
And following these things otherpeople tell you you have to do for
it because you just don't know.
It's very easy to kind of getcaught up in that and then all of
a sudden everything is too much.
It's also kind of, and I was talkingabout this with someone earlier today,
(19:30):
even , I kind of hate some of onlinemarketing right now because so much is
like, oh, you have to do it this way.
You have to use my specificframework or something.
Like it's the only way to get results.
And that's never the case.
There's always so much context andnuance that needs to go into finding
whatever your version of success is.
(19:50):
But because we spend so much timeonline and it is so noisy there, it's
like so easy to get caught up in that.
Caroline Hull (19:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think about, so I kind of made this likelatched last ditch effort with my podcast
business before I transitioned everything.
I knew that I wanted to use theterm voice keeper that said, like,
come to me in like a, a momentof just light bulbs everywhere.
Sheer genius.
(20:17):
And I fell in love with it.
And so I was like, what if I turneverything into the voice keeper
and I try to make podcasting feelreally woowoo and I built a shop.
I set up all kinds of funnels.
I had, you know, emailautomations out the wazoo.
I mean, I probably spent hoursupon hours, upon hours, upon hours.
(20:41):
And I was taking advice from friends.
You know, trying to build businessesthe way that they had built their
business and not really thinkinglike, you know, what is available
to me and what feels good to me.
Like, I, I didn't take into that any,into any of that, into consideration.
And probably about a month into havingall of that set up and running and
(21:05):
doing, I was like, I don't wanna do this.
You know, and I think that's okay.
I think sometimes we have to do thingsto know that we don't wanna do them, but.
It really was like I set something up,wanting it to feel a certain way, but set
it up in a very old school marketing way.
And I think about that sometimes andI'm like, man, no wonder that didn't
(21:27):
feel the way I wanted it to feel.
And it's funny because now I'velike literally paired it down.
I have one automation I have.
I've moved everything over to Substack.
I'm actually considering movingmy email list over to Substack.
Like I have paired everythingdown so much to like the bare
minimum, and it feels amazing.
(21:49):
And the, and honestly, like Isaid, the response has been way
better than it was when I had.
All of those boxes checked.
And so, you know, I just would cautionanyone, like I know a lot of us are out
there selling formulas and things likethat, but when you are, when you see
those courses and those $25, here's my,you know, email automation that gets me
(22:13):
$5,000 every week kind of advertisements.
Like, yeah, purchase 'em, lookat 'em, see what they're doing.
But also.
Weigh that against how you want yourpeople to feel and the experience
you want them to have in your world,and is that the right thing for you?
And I think we lose track of that.
(22:33):
Somewhere along the way, we get soconcerned with conversion that we
forget that especially in this day andage, people are being like inundated.
They don't wanna be converted.
They wanna be understood,they wanna be felt.
They want to feel like theyare part of your world.
You know, we talked a lot aboutthis with podcasting and how we're
creating episodes to make people feel.
(22:55):
And so I think it's really funny thatwe forgot to also apply that to all
the other areas of marketing, you know?
Side note too.
'cause I, I do wanna say, 'cause I thinkwe've been talking a lot about like
the hustle culture and the, there'salso something I see online happening
a lot, which is this very performative.
Version of self care.
(23:16):
And a very performative version of likethe opposite of what we're talking about.
And I really think like that is theultimate problem with the online space
is it has become very performative.
It's a money making thing, right?
And so I just would caution anybody,like, I'm also not telling you, like
create this amazing aesthetic where you'relike meditating and you're wearing the
(23:37):
flowy dresses every morning and yourkids are like drinking tea at the table.
Like no, like this is, thisis real life stuff and it can.
Apply and work for you in real life.
It doesn't have to be aesthetic.
Sydney (23:52):
Absolutely.
And I realized, like after I saidthe thing about frameworks, I
literally do sell like a framework.
But the
Caroline Hull (24:00):
I do too.
Sydney (24:00):
tell my clients is, is like.
You gotta understand, it's just like anoutline and , there's gonna be, there's
gonna be changes for everyone, likeminus like the five steps to sales.
But sometimes like step two is a littlelonger for some people, or step three
is, or there's, there's so much nuance.
So I'm always a little wary oflike the super word for word
(24:20):
templates and things, or people
Caroline Hull (24:22):
Yes.
Sydney (24:23):
I love having a framework or an outline, so I know
like what need to be checked.
Because obviously you have to getlike someone from point A to point
B before they work with you, butthe way you get them there is gonna
be different for everyone, I think.
And then as well, the work itself,because like you said, you tested out,
(24:43):
like having the shop and then pairedeverything back down to the basics.
I'm literally doing that right now, like.
All my offers, just like getting ridof so much and minimizing it so it
works better for my life, my levels.
But also I think when you weretalking about being inundated with
marketing, we're kind of over all ofthe like AI content and we're kind
(25:05):
of craving that personal connection.
So I am really leaning into more . thingslike one-on-one type of work, even
if it's just like a one-time project,not retainer services, because I'm
seeing a lot of people being way moreinterested in that now than those
plug and play templates that mighthave gotten this person $20,000.
But it doesn't mean itwill for you unfortunately.
Caroline Hull (25:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think the question thatI, I like to ask a lot is like,
what do you actually want andhow do you wanna spend your time?
You know?
And, and I know that that has led meto create the offers that I've created.
I meet with an accountability partnertwice a month and it was so funny 'cause a
(25:49):
few weeks ago while we were talking about.
You know, the, the packages I wascreating the things and she was like,
Caroline, how are you gonna do that?
And I was like, I don't know.
And she was like, well then maybeyou should build something different.
And I was like, oh, you're right.
You know?
And I think those are such importantquestions to ask ourselves when
we're doing any of this kindof business building activity.
(26:10):
To me it's, there's definitely a lotof strategy, but I think there's also
a lot of, like you said, nuance and.
And how do I, how do I wanna live mylife and how can this help me do that?
Sydney (26:23):
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
Think especially knowing my listenersare mostly mom business owners
and there's so many like differentphases of motherhood, you gotta be
able to kind of adjust as needed.
I don't wanna commit to somethingthat's gonna take a lot of time.
If a couple months my kidsare gonna all sign up for five
(26:44):
different sports and I'm not gonnahave the time that kind of stuff.
Caroline Hull (26:48):
Yeah, that has been such a lesson for me this year.
I have a 14-year-old and11-year-old and a 5-year-old.
Yes, yes.
Bonus baby.
And.
My older two, they're so,they're getting so busy.
They're, they're teenagers.
You know, I have one in ninth grade.
She's, she's doing all the thingsright now, and I am running in three
(27:10):
different directions on any given day.
And this year especially was, hasbeen super challenging because I, I
mentioned I homeschool, well now, justbecause of their ages, I'm literally
doing three different curriculums.
I mean, luckily the, the high schooler,she's doing college classes and stuff
and she can kind of run her own day, but.
I mean, when I sit down,I'm literally managing three
(27:31):
different, very different needs.
It's not like when my two oldest werelittle, we would do everything together.
It was beautiful.
It was very aesthetic.
Let me tell you.
It's not aesthetic anymore.
And so I've had to make a lot ofadjustments of my expectations of.
The workload that I can handleand the services that I can offer.
(27:51):
And you know, for me in this moment,it doesn't make sense to be taking
on a ton of one-on-one clients.
Like I just don't have the time.
I literally have like one day setaside for calls and so then I have
to get creative and say, well, okay,you know, if, if that's the case,
what can I do to bring in income andstill do the work that I wanna do?
(28:15):
And so that's definitelybeen like Caroline's personal
challenge in this moment.
And even as school has started,I, I feel that even more harder.
Like, oh my gosh, yeah.
Like, I'm not gonna be able to meetwith four to five clients a week.
There's just no way.
Like there's.
No way, unless you want myfive-year-old in the meeting with us.
Like, that's just how it would be.
(28:35):
So, you know, I think, I think thatthat's something really important, like
to give yourself permission to change.
Like you can evolve and changeand you can evolve and change
your business to fit your life.
And it's, it's okay.
Like, it's okay.
I am closing down a membership rightnow for my podcasting business.
And it's been really hard.
It's been really hard because I'msaying goodbye to something that.
(28:58):
Was a dream of mine for a very long time,and I've been holding onto it because
I didn't wanna let go, but it's time.
It's time to let go.
They don't need me anymore.
They're good.
They've gotten all the strategy they need.
And it's time for me to dosomething else that's more in
alignment with what I wanna do.
And that's okay.
And you know what?
Nobody has sent me an angry email.
(29:18):
They might be disappointed, butnobody has like blacklisted me because
you know, I handled it well and Idid all the things and whatever.
But I just wanna share that as anencouragement because I think sometimes
in the online business space, it canbe very scary to make big changes.
And I mean.
If anybody has made a big change, it'sdefinitely me and I'm not starving
(29:41):
yet, so you know, we're doing good.
Sydney (29:45):
That is very good.
Yeah, that was something that was likea big concern for me when I worked
with you on the voice keeper awakening.
What would happen with my membership.
'cause I feel like for me thatwas like one of the big sources
of like stress and burnout and.
Being able to with you about whatcould change, how I can make it
(30:08):
fit my life, but also meet likemy client's needs was amazing.
And like I, of this recording I haven'tannounced like the big changes yet
out, out outside of the membershipitself, but I've made like the, with
the members have told, made the changeswith the members that are already there.
And everyone was super excitedabout it and like stayed in.
(30:28):
I gave them the option to like,absolutely, you don't have to continue.
I know this is a big change, buteveryone was excited about it and stayed.
And it was like a really validating,like reaffirming thing where I'm like,
this is, this is right, this is right.
For sure.
Caroline Hull (30:43):
Yeah, because you believed it was right, right?
Like you believed it was right.
You were holding the space andthe energy for your people.
And what's interesting, I thinkabout the shift that you've made is.
You are making the shift thatwe all have been wanting to
make in our online marketing.
Like I remember when we talkedabout it the first time, I was like,
(31:03):
yeah, that makes total sense to me.
Like, I mean, I had no hesitation.
I was like, yes, yes, that, that is whatneeds to happen in this day and age.
Like that feels right forwhat's happening in the world.
And I think your confidence in that.
Especially after we talked and youwere like, yes, this is what I'm doing.
This is why I'm doing it.
(31:24):
This is my mission, this is my goal.
Like I feel like when you can clarifyall of that for yourself and communicate
it authentically and confidently,then your people are gonna feel that.
You know, you said to me at the beginningof this that my seeing my energy,
well, my energy is this way becauseI am excited about what I'm doing.
Like I am in love withthe work that I'm doing.
(31:47):
And two years ago, I was not inlove with the work I was doing.
So like no wonder I wasn't gettingany new leads or whatever because
my energy was not not there.
And so I think that's a reallyimportant distinction to make as well.
You know, people, they feedoff of what we're doing.
And everything you're doing rightnow, you're doing with such conviction
(32:07):
that everybody in your world is like,yes, this makes sense for me and it's
not gonna make sense for everybody.
Listen, I I am shifting from likepodcast strategy to not similar.
It's been interesting 'cause I'vehad, you know, I've had a couple
long-term members and clients belike, , that's not really my thing.
And I'm like,.
I'm still here if youneed me though, you know?
(32:27):
And so it's.
You know, being open to thoseconversations, being okay with
them and knowing that like whatyou're, you are doing is what
you are supposed to be doing.
Everybody's gonna be on board with that.
Sydney (32:40):
Yeah, I feel like it's, when you make a big shift like that,
you kind of have to expect that.
Some people are just not gonna bealigned, but that's totally fine.
Like they will find people thatthey do align with as will, you
know, you as the service provider.
So
Caroline Hull (32:57):
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Sydney (33:00):
Mm-hmm.
I love that so much..
Caroline Hull (33:03):
So one of the things that I have come to realize in my
journey is that meditation is a huge,has become a huge part of my life.
And honestly, my daughter's life as well.
She has a chronic illness andstress is a trigger for her.
And so I was like, oh, well whatdo I do with this information?
Of course, I go and getcertified to teach meditation.
(33:25):
So because that's, that'swhat Caroline does.
She goes and learns it.
I recently learned that I'm aprojector in human design, which
makes a lot of sense because I amconstantly like, is there a class?
I'll take it?
Is there a class?
I'll take it.
Like, and that's a big projector thing.
So anyways, when I created thismeditation, I created it with the idea
that you, we all need a moment beforewe create, before we, I don't know,
(33:50):
record a podcast, create a YouTube videoto, to check in with ourselves and make
sure is this aligned with what I wannabe doing, with how I wanna be sharing,
how I wanna be showing up in the world?
Is this true to my voice and to me.
And so I created a meditationcalled the Voice Keeper Meditation.
It's free.
You can head to carolinehole.com/meditation
and grab that and let me know if it helps.
(34:12):
I'm a big believer in like creatingritual and moments of like pause
and quiet before you do anything.
That is going to have a lot of impactand I know a lot of us right now, we
don't wanna just add to the noise.
We wanna rise above it.
And so I, I have last couplepeople I've worked with.
(34:32):
We've even created like their ownritual before they create content
or before they, however they'reshowing up in the world before they
go into a board meeting or whatever.
You know, just so you have thatmoment to pause and be like.
Is this coming from a true place?
And so that's what I hopethat meditation does.
So go check it out.
Let me know how, if it helps you.
I'm, like I said, I'm a huge fan ofmeditation, so if you ever wanna chat
(34:55):
about it, I'm over here doing it.
Sydney (34:58):
I love that.
'cause we did one also before our callto like talk about all the changes
and that was like super helpful tojust really like, take a minute and
like slow down and hone in on whatwe're actually trying to focus on.
'cause yeah, I feel like it's theperfect thing for like the anti
performative, anti like hustleness that we always see online.
Caroline Hull (35:22):
Yeah, I, I think that it's so important, you know, we're
talking about transitions here, and Ithink when we're making big shifts in
transitions, it is really importantto take those quiet moments to listen.
I am not, I was never a big journaler.
I was never a big slowdown person.
I have always been go, go, go, go, go.
The way I live my life now is socompletely opposite of how I've
(35:45):
lived my life for many, many yearsand I have anxiety and I wonder why.
And taking, like taking that time toslow and quiet your brain and say like.
What is actually trying to come throughor what, what do I actually want to do?
Is really powerful and it does takesome time to, to develop the skill
(36:08):
to listen n word and be like, butI just want everybody to know that
your, your self, you know, best.
You just have to learn to listen.
And so that's one thing that I reallytry to do with all of my clients is teach
them how to listen to that inner voice.
Because when you start makingthese decisions, whether it be
(36:29):
business life, nine times outta10, you already know what to do.
You're just not listening.
So yeah, I really, I'm glad that resonatedwith you so much, and I just really
encourage everyone to take a moment totake a deep breath before you do any kind
of deciding, brainstorming, anything.
Yeah.
Sydney (36:47):
Yeah, it definitely has like a, a ripple effect from there Now.
Even just for creating content,but how you show up in other
places and, and live your life.
Caroline Hull (36:57):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
It's not just about, you know, I,I've always said this, even back when
I was creating podcasts, it contentis just an extension of ourselves.
It's an extension of who we are, who weare in the world what we believe, how we
think, how we teach, all of those things.
And so for me it's, you know,it's never been very separate.
(37:20):
And when you , connect the two, Ithink it's when your content just
becomes so much more powerful.
Sydney (37:27):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so muchfor chatting with me today.
It is always a pleasure.
I'm really excited to share this witheveryone and I will put the link in the
show notes for your meditation and yourInstagram and on podcast, all the things.
Caroline Hull (37:43):
Thank you so much, Sydney.
You're doing just amazing things andI'm just so honored to be your online
business friend, so thanks for having me.
Sydney (37:52):
Thank you.
Today I'm really excited to talk to Caroline because she like me
made a kind of shift in her businessand she's also the reason that I felt.
Like confident in makingthe shift in my business.
So I'm really excited to share herexpertise and knowledge with you all
in case this is something you havebeen feeling lately or if maybe you're
(01:24):
showing up in a way that doesn't quitefeel like you or doesn't feel aligned
if your work doesn't feel aligned.
So Caroline, can you tell us a littlebit about the changes you made and why?
Caroline Hull (01:35):
So I have been in the online business world for,
I don't know, 10 plus years now.
And I've had severaliterations of my business.
And this last one was, Iwould dare say one of my best.
I was a podcast strategist and managerand editor, and I had grown that business.
(01:59):
You know, the way that everybody saidI should grow my business, right?
Like I did the whole agency thing.
I had a team of six plus at sometimes wewere running between 20 and 30 podcasts
a week, and it felt very, I don't know.
It was really interesting.
Like I remember we rebrandedmy business because I wanted
(02:21):
to take my name off the sign.
And I kept saying that like Iwanted to take my name off the sign.
And so it became this thing thatI was very disconnected from.
Like the business was running without me.
It was great.
And then , AI came onto the scene.
And kind of took over the podcastingindustry and how podcasts were
created and it really changedthe work that we were doing.
(02:43):
And it was definitely one ofthose like evolve or die moments.
And I'll be completely honestwith you, I did not evolve.
I was like so anti AI when it firstcame onto the scene, but it was
also right around that time that Istarted thinking to myself because.
Remember I had taken my name off the sign.
(03:04):
I had always had an agency.
I'd always had like a someonewho managed my team for me.
So when I started steppingback into the work.
I was very much realizing that thatwas not the work that I wanted to be
doing, and I also knew that what Iwanted to be doing was much deeper.
I wanted to be coaching, I wanted to beworking with people, and through all of
(03:28):
this, I was also going on like this reallybig life spiritual journey of my own and.
I don't know.
I just was really feeling called.
It's hard to explain, but I really,really was feeling called to do something.
Deeper.
And so I decided to take somecertifications, see if it was
(03:50):
something I was interested in.
And of course, as I was taking mycertification classes, I fell in love
with it and even more, and I felt likelife was too short, why wait And decided
to completely change my business.
I transitioned everything.
I rebranded back into my name.
So the business is now myname, which is really funny.
(04:10):
And instead of being a podcast strategist,I am now a spiritual life coach.
So, big switch.
Sydney (04:17):
Yes,
Caroline Hull (04:17):
Yes.
Sydney (04:18):
big, but I.
Really love this for you.
Honestly, just as someone who worked withyou, like both before when you were like
doing podcast strategy and now after theway you get so excited about your work
now is catching like working with you.
Now was such a great experience andit's just talking to you about it.
(04:38):
I can tell.
It just feels so much better for you.
Caroline Hull (04:42):
Yeah.
You know, it's, it's really interestingbecause I had done coaching for many
years, like, 'cause I was working withpodcasters who were creating content, and
you and I have talked about this a lot.
Off air in our own time, but when you'recreating content, there's something about
it that brings up a lot of personal stuff.
And I found myself, like I wasn'tcoaching people on their podcast.
(05:06):
I was coaching them through likeconfidence and sharing what really
mattered to them and how to showup in a way that feels aligned.
And so it was really interestingbecause before I even like decided
that I was going to completely switchthe way that I worked, I was already
sort of working in that way and alreadytouching on a lot of the things that.
(05:29):
You know, I would laterlearn in my coaching classes.
It was so funny 'cause I was taking myfirst, so I got us, I got us two spiritual
, certifications and spiritual coaching.
And then I got one in life coaching.
And it was so funny because asI was taking them I was like,
yeah, I've been doing this.
Yeah, they've been doing this like,yeah, this is the stuff I've been working
on with my clients this whole time.
(05:51):
And so it really was anatural progression for me.
But I think stepping into it fullyhas just completely changed how I
show up in the world in the best way.
Sydney (06:04):
And I feel like creating content once you are more excited to share like
what you're doing and it doesn't feellike this stressful thing is always so
nice too and makes it so much easier.
Caroline Hull (06:15):
Oh yeah.
I mean, I'm sure we'll talkabout this more, but like.
Not only has it changed the way Icreate content, it's changed how
I feel about the content I create.
And it's changed how I feel aboutthe time that I spend creating
the content that I create.
Like it's, it's been this completetransformation of like how I'm
actually showing up online.
(06:36):
And it's been really fascinating to gothrough that because I literally went
from, in my podcasting business, I hated.
Creating reels like hated creatingInstagram posts because it felt so
performative to, oh, I actually likethis a lot to now I've evolved to
this place of I don't have to do that.
(06:58):
So do I want to, and like, not evenlike feeling that like outward you
know, that external pressure fromthe online business world to show up
anymore, like that is completely gone.
And it's, it's really fascinating howmuch that has shifted just because
I've stepped into full alignmentwith the work that I'm doing.
(07:19):
It's really interesting to actuallythink about and talk about.
Sydney (07:22):
Yeah, I'm.
Seeing that and how I create contentas well now, like strategist, like I
was, I felt like I had to be on top ofall the trends and like pay such close
attention to these things and likepost on Instagram pretty consistently.
And now it's just like,I'll do it when I'm ready.
It's just like a hugeweight off my shoulders.
And I can easily talk about likewhat I want to say without feeling
(07:47):
that like pressure to be like,oh, I'm an Instagram strategist.
I have to get like.
Highest reach I have to like hop onthis trend to show I know my stuff.
But it's also like I have alwayssaid, vanity metrics don't matter.
And I feel like I feel that evenmore now that everything feels more
aligned, like when you're speakingto the right people and be like your
(08:10):
truth about what your work is and yourmission and everything, it, that is
so much more impactful than focusingon like numbers and trends and stuff.
Caroline Hull (08:20):
Yeah, it's been really fascinating because I have noticed in the
last couple of weeks, especially, wellmaybe the last month, let's be honest.
The engagement that I have experiencedwith my content, the, the comments on
YouTube, the, you know, people reachingout to me to say, oh my gosh, I identified
with this, has like shot through the roof.
(08:42):
And when I was doing podcast strategy,I was always trying to create
podcast episodes that were an exampleof really good podcast strategy.
And I was getting very burned out likea, I was tired of talking about podcast
strategy 'cause I've been talking aboutit for like five years at this point.
Also B, it just didn't feel like me.
It felt, like I said performative.
(09:02):
I use the word performative a lotbecause I think that's something
a lot of us experience, especiallyin the online space, is this very
performative way of creating content.
Especially those of us who are B2B people.
Like we feel like because wework with business owners, we
have to have everything togetherand it has to look perfect.
And I found myself becoming obsessed withthat to the point that it was detrimental.
(09:25):
Two, my podcast and my podcast growth.
And since I've just like released all ofthat and I've also like fully embraced
this experimentation, like I'm just gonnatry different stuff because I can now,
because I'm not, nobody's watching me.
Like I don't care.
It's been interesting.
My podcast downloads have shot up.
My engagement's up.
(09:45):
When I post on Instagram or TikTok, Iget tons of new followers, tons of likes,
tons of comments, and I'm not trying.
And I think that has been such ahuge realization for me because I
mean, I have literally spent thelast 10 years of my life trying so
hard in the online business space.
And I think that's justreally a testament to that.
(10:08):
When you're doing something that isfully aligned and you're able to show
up fully as you and not be performative.
Then all of that stuff is justnatural and you don't have to
fight for it quite so much.
Sydney (10:21):
I love that so much.
I'm so happy for you.
I know I said it already, but I really am.
Like that is just like the dream, I think.
Now have you noticed any changes tolike, I feel like a lot of the times our
business and personal lives kind of mesh.
Have you noticed the positivity you'regetting from your business, into
personal life, like less stressed?
(10:41):
Are you feeling better?
Caroline Hull (10:44):
Oh yeah.
110000%.
You know, and that, that was a hugecatalyst for me making this shift as well.
As much as I love.
I still love podcasts so much.
I think it's an incredible medium thateverybody should embrace, but as much as I
loved it, I, it was a very stressful gig.
(11:05):
It was stressful to wake up everymorning and like check the feeds and,
you know, if a client emailed me, Iwould like drop everything in my life.
I homeschool my kids.
So it felt very.
Intrusive into my life and, andlike you said, very stressful.
Because the work I do now is socentered on what's going on inside.
(11:27):
It's almost like a huge excuse for me tolike, take the time to work on my inside.
Like, I mean, my, my life is somuch more balanced than it ever was.
But I also feel more likemyself than I ever have.
And that also was a reallyhuge part of the journey was
like rediscovering who I was.
(11:47):
Because I'm a 40 something mom, you know,I've been through a lot in my life, and
like I said, I've been in the onlinebusiness world for 10 years and I've
spent the bulk of that time trying toemulate the people that I see around me.
And when I stopped doing thatand started being myself fully.
(12:07):
It just like bled into everything.
And it really, for me started with, Isaw this really great TikTok one day, and
I, I feel so terrible because I didn'tsave it, so I can't credit this person.
But somewhere in the middle of myjourney, I saw TikTok and she said, dress
to make your 15-year-old self proud.
And that like changed my lifebecause I immediately was like my
(12:29):
15-year-old self would be so mad.
Like, she would just be reelinglike, what have you done, Caroline?
Like, we weren't gonna have kids.
We were gonna live in the cityand we were gonna wear all black.
Like, what are you doing?
You know, we were gonnahave tattoos and piercings.
What's going on?
And, and so I started with like, justmaking some little shifts like that.
(12:51):
And it was funny how, how easierit became to show up online.
When I started like beingmyself in my everyday world.
Does that make sense?
Like it's all connected.
That I think that's what we, we,we forget, is how much the work
that we're doing is so connectedto everything else in our lives.
Sydney (13:14):
It absolutely is.
And I feel like your 15-year-old self andmy 15-year-old self , would be friends
Caroline Hull (13:20):
Oh, totes.
Sydney (13:21):
was like absolutely the same way.
And I totally saw that same TikTok andwas like, you know what, this is true.
And then I went shopping andwas like, I need to , yeah.
And that's, I was like ahuge part of it for me too.
That's so funny.
Like that same TikTok.
Yes, absolutely.
what that shopping trip actually is.
Why I got that Easy Bakecoven shirt that you like.
Caroline Hull (13:42):
Oh my gosh.
This is my favorite shirt.
No, I, every time you wear that shirt,I like, I send you a message and I'm
like, I want your shirt like every time.
Sydney (13:50):
Yeah.
It's so good.
Yeah.
That's
Caroline Hull (13:53):
Love it.
Sydney (13:54):
'Cause there is so much that as much as we wanna like.
Put up boundaries and separatelike work life from personal life.
I think when it's kind of impossiblewhen you're an online business
owner like we are, I don't know.
It, it seems very difficult,especially when, you know, you and
I also homeschool, so we're doingit like in these like weird kind of
(14:17):
pockets of time, like schedule-wise.
It just makes it really hardto separate it completely.
So finding a way to make it worktogether so you're not, kind of like
resentful maybe might be the word Iwant of like the time I was on, like
work when I wanted to be with thekids or when I was with the kids.
(14:37):
And I was like, I have thisemail that I need to respond to.
That like stressed out feeling.
I hated it.
And that was also a big catalyst for me.
Do you think when you talk toother people, that's like one of
the big indicators, there's a,a shift that needs to be made?
Caroline Hull (14:51):
Yeah, I think that is a huge one that I see a lot.
It's this, it's this idea of the shoulds.
Right, like, I should be doingthis, I should be doing that.
Because that's what we've seen.
And I know that we have all heardpeople say like, you can build
a business the way you want to,just like you can build your life.
But it feels so unattainable.
(15:14):
It feels so hard becausewhat we are modeled.
Is not that at all.
And let's be honest, we live in a very,like, our culture is very hustle oriented.
You know, we were, most of uswho are my age were raised by
post World War ii work ethic.
Like you need to be, you needto have a job, you need to have
(15:34):
benefits, you need to have thehouse, the car, you know, the 2.5
kids and the dog.
Like, there are all theseshoulds that are in our lives.
And I think what happens to a lot ofpeople is they, they follow the shoulds.
They do the shoulds all the time, whetherthey know they're doing them or not.
And then they wake up one dayand they realize that everything
around them is a should and notsomething that is in alignment.
(15:59):
And it may not be everything.
You know, for me it wasn't everything.
My kids are not out of alignment.
Okay.
I love them.
I love my kids, I love my husband,I love my, the home we've built.
But just like you said, how I wasspending my time in those, those pockets.
Was was not how I wantedto be spending my time.
And I think what happens iswe don't know an alternative.
(16:22):
It's hard for us to find an alternativebecause we wanna be successful, we wanna
have a successful business, we wanna begreat parents, we wanna be great partners.
You know, all of those things.
And so it's hard to find our, our path.
And I think a lot of that comesdown to listening to your inner
voice, which is really, really hard.
(16:43):
We live in a very noisy, chaotic time.
It's really hard to hear ourselves,and it's especially hard to hear
yourself when you're having tobe everything for everyone else.
So I find that it's really likea catalyst of a lot of things.
But I definitely think, you know, soI'm, I'm running a challenge this week
(17:06):
and, and day one of the challenge waslike looking around and what are the
things that I'm carrying that I don'tneed to be carrying, you know, because
we all are carrying so many things, andthat's just like with my, my business, I
would carry, I was carrying the success.
Of my client's podcasts onmy shoulders all the time.
(17:30):
And I felt like, no, you know, I wouldgive them all the things, I would
make the plan, and if they didn'tfollow it and weren't successful,
I still placed that responsibilityon myself and it wore me down.
And I think especially in such a,you know, in the online business
world where everything is, like yousaid, vanity metrics, everything is
numbers, numbers, numbers, numbers.
(17:51):
After a while, those numbersstart to feel more important than
the actual work you're doing.
And you know, I've worked with peoplerecently where it wasn't really
about creating the thing or havingthe numbers, it was really about
how do I feel when I'm doing this?
And so to your point about like,you know, building a business that.
(18:14):
Actually works for your life.
Like what would that look likeif we actually stopped and
said, how do I feel about this?
And so it's been a reallyinteresting experiment to be on
this side of like the transition,like having changed my business.
And now, because I'm basically startingover from scratch, I get to stop and
say, well what, what actually feels good?
(18:35):
And I just think if we actuallylet ourselves do that with a lot
of things in life, it would totallychange how we felt about the things
that we spend our time doing.
Sydney (18:44):
I 110% agree.
And when you were talking about how likethe, we live in like a very like, hustle
oriented world and it's very noisy.
It super is.
And I think as online business owners,when we spend so much time online for
like networking and marketing and doingresearch and, especially if you're
a solopreneur and you don't have ateam and you're trying to learn like.
(19:06):
Marketing over here, like maybebookkeeping, podcasting, like all these
different facets for your business.
And following these things otherpeople tell you you have to do for
it because you just don't know.
It's very easy to kind of getcaught up in that and then all of
a sudden everything is too much.
It's also kind of, and I was talkingabout this with someone earlier today,
(19:30):
even , I kind of hate some of onlinemarketing right now because so much is
like, oh, you have to do it this way.
You have to use my specificframework or something.
Like it's the only way to get results.
And that's never the case.
There's always so much context andnuance that needs to go into finding
whatever your version of success is.
(19:50):
But because we spend so much timeonline and it is so noisy there, it's
like so easy to get caught up in that.
Caroline Hull (19:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I think about, so I kind of made this likelatched last ditch effort with my podcast
business before I transitioned everything.
I knew that I wanted to use theterm voice keeper that said, like,
come to me in like a, a momentof just light bulbs everywhere.
Sheer genius.
(20:17):
And I fell in love with it.
And so I was like, what if I turneverything into the voice keeper
and I try to make podcasting feelreally woowoo and I built a shop.
I set up all kinds of funnels.
I had, you know, emailautomations out the wazoo.
I mean, I probably spent hoursupon hours, upon hours, upon hours.
(20:41):
And I was taking advice from friends.
You know, trying to build businessesthe way that they had built their
business and not really thinkinglike, you know, what is available
to me and what feels good to me.
Like, I, I didn't take into that any,into any of that, into consideration.
And probably about a month into havingall of that set up and running and
(21:05):
doing, I was like, I don't wanna do this.
You know, and I think that's okay.
I think sometimes we have to do thingsto know that we don't wanna do them, but.
It really was like I set something up,wanting it to feel a certain way, but set
it up in a very old school marketing way.
And I think about that sometimes andI'm like, man, no wonder that didn't
(21:27):
feel the way I wanted it to feel.
And it's funny because now I'velike literally paired it down.
I have one automation I have.
I've moved everything over to Substack.
I'm actually considering movingmy email list over to Substack.
Like I have paired everythingdown so much to like the bare
minimum, and it feels amazing.
(21:49):
And the, and honestly, like Isaid, the response has been way
better than it was when I had.
All of those boxes checked.
And so, you know, I just would cautionanyone, like I know a lot of us are out
there selling formulas and things likethat, but when you are, when you see
those courses and those $25, here's my,you know, email automation that gets me
(22:13):
$5,000 every week kind of advertisements.
Like, yeah, purchase 'em, lookat 'em, see what they're doing.
But also.
Weigh that against how you want yourpeople to feel and the experience
you want them to have in your world,and is that the right thing for you?
And I think we lose track of that.
(22:33):
Somewhere along the way, we get soconcerned with conversion that we
forget that especially in this day andage, people are being like inundated.
They don't wanna be converted.
They wanna be understood,they wanna be felt.
They want to feel like theyare part of your world.
You know, we talked a lot aboutthis with podcasting and how we're
creating episodes to make people feel.
(22:55):
And so I think it's really funny thatwe forgot to also apply that to all
the other areas of marketing, you know?
Side note too.
'cause I, I do wanna say, 'cause I thinkwe've been talking a lot about like
the hustle culture and the, there'salso something I see online happening
a lot, which is this very performative.
Version of self care.
(23:16):
And a very performative version of likethe opposite of what we're talking about.
And I really think like that is theultimate problem with the online space
is it has become very performative.
It's a money making thing, right?
And so I just would caution anybody,like, I'm also not telling you, like
create this amazing aesthetic where you'relike meditating and you're wearing the
(23:37):
flowy dresses every morning and yourkids are like drinking tea at the table.
Like no, like this is, thisis real life stuff and it can.
Apply and work for you in real life.
It doesn't have to be aesthetic.
Sydney (23:52):
Absolutely.
And I realized, like after I saidthe thing about frameworks, I
literally do sell like a framework.
But the
Caroline Hull (24:00):
I do too.
Sydney (24:00):
tell my clients is, is like.
You gotta understand, it's just like anoutline and , there's gonna be, there's
gonna be changes for everyone, likeminus like the five steps to sales.
But sometimes like step two is a littlelonger for some people, or step three
is, or there's, there's so much nuance.
So I'm always a little wary oflike the super word for word
(24:20):
templates and things, or people
Caroline Hull (24:22):
Yes.
Sydney (24:23):
I love having a framework or an outline, so I know
like what need to be checked.
Because obviously you have to getlike someone from point A to point
B before they work with you, butthe way you get them there is gonna
be different for everyone, I think.
And then as well, the work itself,because like you said, you tested out,
(24:43):
like having the shop and then pairedeverything back down to the basics.
I'm literally doing that right now, like.
All my offers, just like getting ridof so much and minimizing it so it
works better for my life, my levels.
But also I think when you weretalking about being inundated with
marketing, we're kind of over all ofthe like AI content and we're kind
(25:05):
of craving that personal connection.
So I am really leaning into more . thingslike one-on-one type of work, even
if it's just like a one-time project,not retainer services, because I'm
seeing a lot of people being way moreinterested in that now than those
plug and play templates that mighthave gotten this person $20,000.
But it doesn't mean itwill for you unfortunately.
Caroline Hull (25:28):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think, I think the question thatI, I like to ask a lot is like,
what do you actually want andhow do you wanna spend your time?
You know?
And, and I know that that has led meto create the offers that I've created.
I meet with an accountability partnertwice a month and it was so funny 'cause a
(25:49):
few weeks ago while we were talking about.
You know, the, the packages I wascreating the things and she was like,
Caroline, how are you gonna do that?
And I was like, I don't know.
And she was like, well then maybeyou should build something different.
And I was like, oh, you're right.
You know?
And I think those are such importantquestions to ask ourselves when
we're doing any of this kindof business building activity.
(26:10):
To me it's, there's definitely a lotof strategy, but I think there's also
a lot of, like you said, nuance and.
And how do I, how do I wanna live mylife and how can this help me do that?
Sydney (26:23):
Mm-hmm.
Absolutely.
Think especially knowing my listenersare mostly mom business owners
and there's so many like differentphases of motherhood, you gotta be
able to kind of adjust as needed.
I don't wanna commit to somethingthat's gonna take a lot of time.
If a couple months my kidsare gonna all sign up for five
(26:44):
different sports and I'm not gonnahave the time that kind of stuff.
Caroline Hull (26:48):
Yeah, that has been such a lesson for me this year.
I have a 14-year-old and11-year-old and a 5-year-old.
Yes, yes.
Bonus baby.
And.
My older two, they're so,they're getting so busy.
They're, they're teenagers.
You know, I have one in ninth grade.
She's, she's doing all the thingsright now, and I am running in three
(27:10):
different directions on any given day.
And this year especially was, hasbeen super challenging because I, I
mentioned I homeschool, well now, justbecause of their ages, I'm literally
doing three different curriculums.
I mean, luckily the, the high schooler,she's doing college classes and stuff
and she can kind of run her own day, but.
I mean, when I sit down,I'm literally managing three
(27:31):
different, very different needs.
It's not like when my two oldest werelittle, we would do everything together.
It was beautiful.
It was very aesthetic.
Let me tell you.
It's not aesthetic anymore.
And so I've had to make a lot ofadjustments of my expectations of.
The workload that I can handleand the services that I can offer.
(27:51):
And you know, for me in this moment,it doesn't make sense to be taking
on a ton of one-on-one clients.
Like I just don't have the time.
I literally have like one day setaside for calls and so then I have
to get creative and say, well, okay,you know, if, if that's the case,
what can I do to bring in income andstill do the work that I wanna do?
(28:15):
And so that's definitelybeen like Caroline's personal
challenge in this moment.
And even as school has started,I, I feel that even more harder.
Like, oh my gosh, yeah.
Like, I'm not gonna be able to meetwith four to five clients a week.
There's just no way.
Like there's.
No way, unless you want myfive-year-old in the meeting with us.
Like, that's just how it would be.
(28:35):
So, you know, I think, I think thatthat's something really important, like
to give yourself permission to change.
Like you can evolve and changeand you can evolve and change
your business to fit your life.
And it's, it's okay.
Like, it's okay.
I am closing down a membership rightnow for my podcasting business.
And it's been really hard.
It's been really hard because I'msaying goodbye to something that.
(28:58):
Was a dream of mine for a very long time,and I've been holding onto it because
I didn't wanna let go, but it's time.
It's time to let go.
They don't need me anymore.
They're good.
They've gotten all the strategy they need.
And it's time for me to dosomething else that's more in
alignment with what I wanna do.
And that's okay.
And you know what?
Nobody has sent me an angry email.
(29:18):
They might be disappointed, butnobody has like blacklisted me because
you know, I handled it well and Idid all the things and whatever.
But I just wanna share that as anencouragement because I think sometimes
in the online business space, it canbe very scary to make big changes.
And I mean.
If anybody has made a big change, it'sdefinitely me and I'm not starving
(29:41):
yet, so you know, we're doing good.
Sydney (29:45):
That is very good.
Yeah, that was something that was likea big concern for me when I worked
with you on the voice keeper awakening.
What would happen with my membership.
'cause I feel like for me thatwas like one of the big sources
of like stress and burnout and.
Being able to with you about whatcould change, how I can make it
(30:08):
fit my life, but also meet likemy client's needs was amazing.
And like I, of this recording I haven'tannounced like the big changes yet
out, out outside of the membershipitself, but I've made like the, with
the members have told, made the changeswith the members that are already there.
And everyone was super excitedabout it and like stayed in.
(30:28):
I gave them the option to like,absolutely, you don't have to continue.
I know this is a big change, buteveryone was excited about it and stayed.
And it was like a really validating,like reaffirming thing where I'm like,
this is, this is right, this is right.
For sure.
Caroline Hull (30:43):
Yeah, because you believed it was right, right?
Like you believed it was right.
You were holding the space andthe energy for your people.
And what's interesting, I thinkabout the shift that you've made is.
You are making the shift thatwe all have been wanting to
make in our online marketing.
Like I remember when we talkedabout it the first time, I was like,
(31:03):
yeah, that makes total sense to me.
Like, I mean, I had no hesitation.
I was like, yes, yes, that, that is whatneeds to happen in this day and age.
Like that feels right forwhat's happening in the world.
And I think your confidence in that.
Especially after we talked and youwere like, yes, this is what I'm doing.
This is why I'm doing it.
(31:24):
This is my mission, this is my goal.
Like I feel like when you can clarifyall of that for yourself and communicate
it authentically and confidently,then your people are gonna feel that.
You know, you said to me at the beginningof this that my seeing my energy,
well, my energy is this way becauseI am excited about what I'm doing.
Like I am in love withthe work that I'm doing.
(31:47):
And two years ago, I was not inlove with the work I was doing.
So like no wonder I wasn't gettingany new leads or whatever because
my energy was not not there.
And so I think that's a reallyimportant distinction to make as well.
You know, people, they feedoff of what we're doing.
And everything you're doing rightnow, you're doing with such conviction
(32:07):
that everybody in your world is like,yes, this makes sense for me and it's
not gonna make sense for everybody.
Listen, I I am shifting from likepodcast strategy to not similar.
It's been interesting 'cause I'vehad, you know, I've had a couple
long-term members and clients belike, , that's not really my thing.
And I'm like,.
I'm still here if youneed me though, you know?
(32:27):
And so it's.
You know, being open to thoseconversations, being okay with
them and knowing that like whatyou're, you are doing is what
you are supposed to be doing.
Everybody's gonna be on board with that.
Sydney (32:40):
Yeah, I feel like it's, when you make a big shift like that,
you kind of have to expect that.
Some people are just not gonna bealigned, but that's totally fine.
Like they will find people thatthey do align with as will, you
know, you as the service provider.
So
Caroline Hull (32:57):
Right.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Sydney (33:00):
Mm-hmm.
I love that so much..
Caroline Hull (33:03):
So one of the things that I have come to realize in my
journey is that meditation is a huge,has become a huge part of my life.
And honestly, my daughter's life as well.
She has a chronic illness andstress is a trigger for her.
And so I was like, oh, well whatdo I do with this information?
Of course, I go and getcertified to teach meditation.
(33:25):
So because that's, that'swhat Caroline does.
She goes and learns it.
I recently learned that I'm aprojector in human design, which
makes a lot of sense because I amconstantly like, is there a class?
I'll take it?
Is there a class?
I'll take it.
Like, and that's a big projector thing.
So anyways, when I created thismeditation, I created it with the idea
that you, we all need a moment beforewe create, before we, I don't know,
(33:50):
record a podcast, create a YouTube videoto, to check in with ourselves and make
sure is this aligned with what I wannabe doing, with how I wanna be sharing,
how I wanna be showing up in the world?
Is this true to my voice and to me.
And so I created a meditationcalled the Voice Keeper Meditation.
It's free.
You can head to carolinehole.com/meditation
and grab that and let me know if it helps.
(34:12):
I'm a big believer in like creatingritual and moments of like pause
and quiet before you do anything.
That is going to have a lot of impactand I know a lot of us right now, we
don't wanna just add to the noise.
We wanna rise above it.
And so I, I have last couplepeople I've worked with.
(34:32):
We've even created like their ownritual before they create content
or before they, however they'reshowing up in the world before they
go into a board meeting or whatever.
You know, just so you have thatmoment to pause and be like.
Is this coming from a true place?
And so that's what I hopethat meditation does.
So go check it out.
Let me know how, if it helps you.
I'm, like I said, I'm a huge fan ofmeditation, so if you ever wanna chat
(34:55):
about it, I'm over here doing it.
Sydney (34:58):
I love that.
'cause we did one also before our callto like talk about all the changes
and that was like super helpful tojust really like, take a minute and
like slow down and hone in on whatwe're actually trying to focus on.
'cause yeah, I feel like it's theperfect thing for like the anti
performative, anti like hustleness that we always see online.
Caroline Hull (35:22):
Yeah, I, I think that it's so important, you know, we're
talking about transitions here, and Ithink when we're making big shifts in
transitions, it is really importantto take those quiet moments to listen.
I am not, I was never a big journaler.
I was never a big slowdown person.
I have always been go, go, go, go, go.
The way I live my life now is socompletely opposite of how I've
(35:45):
lived my life for many, many yearsand I have anxiety and I wonder why.
And taking, like taking that time toslow and quiet your brain and say like.
What is actually trying to come throughor what, what do I actually want to do?
Is really powerful and it does takesome time to, to develop the skill
(36:08):
to listen n word and be like, butI just want everybody to know that
your, your self, you know, best.
You just have to learn to listen.
And so that's one thing that I reallytry to do with all of my clients is teach
them how to listen to that inner voice.
Because when you start makingthese decisions, whether it be
(36:29):
business life, nine times outta10, you already know what to do.
You're just not listening.
So yeah, I really, I'm glad that resonatedwith you so much, and I just really
encourage everyone to take a moment totake a deep breath before you do any kind
of deciding, brainstorming, anything.
Yeah.
Sydney (36:47):
Yeah, it definitely has like a, a ripple effect from there Now.
Even just for creating content,but how you show up in other
places and, and live your life.
Caroline Hull (36:57):
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
It's not just about, you know, I,I've always said this, even back when
I was creating podcasts, it contentis just an extension of ourselves.
It's an extension of who we are, who weare in the world what we believe, how we
think, how we teach, all of those things.
And so for me it's, you know,it's never been very separate.
(37:20):
And when you , connect the two, Ithink it's when your content just
becomes so much more powerful.
Sydney (37:27):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so muchfor chatting with me today.
It is always a pleasure.
I'm really excited to share this witheveryone and I will put the link in the
show notes for your meditation and yourInstagram and on podcast, all the things.
Caroline Hull (37:43):
Thank you so much, Sydney.
You're doing just amazing things andI'm just so honored to be your online
business friend, so thanks for having me.
Sydney (37:52):
Thank you.
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