December 21, 2023 • 37 mins
Hey Ma! We’re hitting rewind and spotlighting our "MA Top 12" — the standout episodes from our first three seasons of Moms Actually. From October 12 to December 28, don’t miss the moments that defined us. Join us as a we take a trip down memory lane as we prepare for Season 4.
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What happens to a mother's world when tragedy strikes and she loses a child? Witness the incredible strength and resilience of Dr. Verlonda Jackson, a mother who faced the unthinkable loss of her four-year-old son, Judah. Verlonda’s tragedy and journey of grieving and rebuilding that followed is nothing short of heartrending.
We discuss the following:
- Maternal guilt
- The pressure of maintaining appearances
- The importance of honest conversations with our children.
- The significance of giving ourselves grace during difficult times
- Not chasing the illusion of a perfect mom.
- The pursuit of a new normal in the face of a personal catastrophe
- Diverse coping mechanisms within a grieving family
- The ways in which Verlonda’s family and other son navigated their sorrow.
- The often overlooked concept of 'secondary losses'
- The struggle of managing guilt and faith post-tragedy.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I just can't control everything, you know.
I just have to be okay withthat.
It's still hard.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hey mom, what's up, what's up, hey mom, what's up?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Hey mom, what's up?
Hey mom, what's up?
Hey mom, what's up?
Hello, welcome to Mom's.
Actually On Flare.
Hey, hello, this is Morgan andwe have our special guest, dr
Berlinda Jackson.
Welcome, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm doing good.
How are?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Good, good, I'm feeling good.
I'm excited about the episode.
I'm excited to have you here,thank you.
So I want to go ahead and justjump right in.
You guys know how it goes.
We do its giving motherhood.
Now, this is our icebreaker.
This is just for all of ourguests to be able to just, you
know, get all the kinks out warmup a little bit get used to us.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know what I'm saying?
Breathe a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Very, very light.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to say a word.
It's going to be a quick littlerapid fire.
Blair and I are going toalternate really quick, but the
first answer actually this is alittle this or that.
So the first is the rightanswer and we're just going to
ask you which one you wouldprefer and you just give us your
answer and we'll just go fromthere.
Ok, all right, first one coffeeor tea.
(01:08):
Tea.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Girls night or girls trip, girls trip.
Ok, she's like give me out ofhere.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
TikTok scroll or IG scroll.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
IG scroll.
I don't know how to use TikTok.
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Don't do it, don't do the TikTok Airbnb or hotel.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Airbnb OK.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right, all right.
So are you asking first or areyou apologizing later?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Apologizing later, ok .
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Riz take care.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
There's a story there .
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Phone call or text message.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Text message me, don't call.
Don't call me, text me babies20s or your 30s 30s.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, I agree 30s.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I feel like when you're a woman, it's giving more
freedom.
Freedom, like you know yourselfbetter, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
You're more comfortable.
I always say I would never,ever go back to my 20s?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
No me either.
Not even my teenage years.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's a little ghetto, it's a lot.
Ghetto, very ghetto, it was alot.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Just a little maybe but it was needed, you know what
I'm saying, I feel like.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I mean I had my first daughter at 20.
So I would go back because Iwould love to have her Layla,
you needed to exist.
Yes, Layla needs to exist, butyeah, learning experiences, but
I wouldn't necessarily like tolive.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
No, I'm good.
So we have you here today,because 2020 meant something
completely different to you thanit did to the rest of the world
at the time.
So I just want you to tell us alittle bit about you and your
story.
Your story.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, I'm originally from Philadelphia.
That's where we were 2020.
I'm married, I have a wonderfulhusband and we have three
children.
They were four, six and eightand, like most people at 2020,
we were sheltered in place,can't go nowhere.
(03:11):
They only want you to look atanybody.
I mean, everybody was justencapsulated and everybody was
working from home, my husband'sworking from home, I'm working
from home, the kids, lord Jesus.
So working from home.
It was a lot and I think we justdecided to break away in the
middle of the day and get themout to the park from fresh air.
(03:33):
Some scooters, some basketball,and so we took them out and the
kind of park we went to it wasa state park and it has like a
walking trail around it.
It has a lake in the middle,playground, your typical state
park and we took them there andmy husband took our oldest son.
They went off to go playbasketball and I kept my son
(03:56):
Judah, who was just turned four,and my daughter Ava, who had
just turned six, and we weretaking a walk around the walking
trail and they had theirscooters, I had the dog and
maybe within 20 minutes of beingthere, the kids scooted off and
(04:16):
my dog did his business in thegrass and I got distracted and I
went to go pick up puppy poopand the kids turned the bin and
my son got into the lake.
I drowned.
I remember when I finally caughtup to them and I still thought
(04:40):
they were on scooters I did hearscreaming, I did hear shuffling
, but everything happened soquickly and when I got there
nobody was on scooters anymore.
My daughter was just standingin this.
It looked like a limitless lakeand I don't see Judah and I'm
like well, where is Judah?
My daughter's screaming andshe's just like we were waiting
for you and Judah went under thewater and when I heard that, I
(05:03):
think my heart just went into avice grip Because it's like you
were just right here.
What do you mean?
He's under the water.
I'm thinking maybe he's at theprey ground, maybe he just can't
be under the water.
Because I can't see him and Ididn't react as quickly as I
could.
You know, a lot of peopleshoulda, coulda, woulda, I
(05:26):
woulda jumped in, I, woulda.
I didn't do any of that.
I think it took me about 30seconds for my brain to register
my baby is really in the waterand I went in and I saw shoes
swimming and I went and grabbedit.
I thought it was him, it wasjust his shoes.
And I remember running to getmy husband and I just kept
(05:50):
thinking my husband can do it, Ican't do it, my husband can
find him and everything will beOK.
But everything was not OK.
Thankfully, a good Samaritancalled the police.
They were there within 60seconds, dived into the water.
They found him.
He was at the bottom of thelake and when they pulled him
out he didn't have a pulse, hedidn't have a heartbeat, and
(06:13):
they threw him in the ambulance,took us to the nearest hospital
and by the time we got there wewere allowed to see him.
He was just tubes.
He just looked lifeless.
And I just remember praying God, please don't take my baby,
please don't take my baby.
And later on through the nightthey transported him to a
(06:39):
children's hospital and theydidn't know whether he would
live or die, and so I thinkduring that time they said his
brain was so swollen they couldnot do an MRI.
So it was just a waiting game.
And of course, you guys know mefrom social media.
We share the kids and sharefunny stories, and I was very
hesitant to share something likethis.
(07:01):
But I think I needed prayer.
I needed the prayers frommothers, from fathers, whoever
you believe in.
I just needed prayer.
And I remember posting it andit just started going viral.
Everywhere.
We had people everywherefamilies, mothers, fathers,
grandmothers, I mean everybodyjust prayed.
(07:23):
A couple days later they did anMRI and they told me that my
baby was severely brain damaged.
I remember them showing me apicture of his brain and the
neurologist said the pink areasare healthy brain and every area
where there is gray it'sdamaged brain.
And by damage we mean it'sirreparable.
(07:44):
And I remember looking at thepicture everything was just gray
, everything was just gray.
And they told me that my babywould never walk again, he would
never talk again, he wouldnever be able to see or hear.
He was just a vegetable.
And they encouraged me towithdraw care and I refused.
(08:05):
I think a part of me refusedbecause I was scared.
A part of me refused because Isaid that Big Lake, they found
him and he was still alive.
If he still had a heartbeat, ifhe still had a pulse, that
meant he was still meant to behere.
And I didn't want to play God.
I wanted God to be God, I justwanted to be mom and so I
(08:27):
refused to withdraw care, and hestayed alive for about 15
months.
I remember just traveling allacross the country just in
search of different treatmentshyperbaric oxygen therapy, stem
cell treatment, functionalneurology.
I tried, I tried.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
You advocated for him .
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I did my best, but I have never seen.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I did my best and unfortunately, 15 November of
2021, that Sunday night, we puthim to bed and all was well.
It was his normal and Iremember putting him to bed.
He had his own bed, but Ialways just kept him in bed with
us just in case something wouldhappen.
(09:11):
I'd be able to react quickly.
We put him to bed and we wokeup Monday morning and he was
gone.
He's gone.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I just also want to say, like I remember they told
you he would be a vegetable, butthe way you advocated for him,
and brought him to differentdoctors, no matter what it cost
you time, money.
He exceeded expectations.
That's why, when Novemberhappened, I think everybody was
(09:44):
shocked Because he had startedmoving a bit, or he had started
to.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
They said he couldn't see.
He could see.
They said he couldn't hear.
He would call him, he wouldlook at you.
They said he would never beable to feed himself.
He couldn't feed himself, buthe was able to eat, he could
move.
And so I had so much faith.
I had so much faith and I wassuch a mom.
As moms, we will do anything atany cost, and we don't know how
(10:15):
strong we are until we're putin that hot water.
And so I did what I could as amom.
I couldn't be God.
I wish I could, I wish I couldhave in those moments, but I
couldn't be, just be mom.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I always say we're not superheroes, but I'm glad we
know how to be a superhero?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, we do.
And I would definitely say first, before anything, like I just
appreciate your transparency, Iappreciate your story and I know
there are so many other momswho are going to appreciate your
transparency in your stories,because there are plenty of moms
who have had such a loss andtheir faith has been shattered
(10:58):
and you are a greatrepresentation of what faith
looks like to advocate for yourchild and to say no, like the
doctor, if I'm not God, thedoctor's not going to be God.
You know what I mean.
For you to be able to say thatand believe it is so honorable.
So I literally am just lookingat you as a woman of valor and
(11:24):
it's amazing to see because,even though the outcome wasn't
what was ideal, you're standinghere today in a way that you
could show so many women faith.
You can show so many womenstrength, but you can also show
that it's hard and it's OK togrieve and it's OK to feel,
(11:46):
while also being strong and thesame.
They can coexist and I thinkthat's just so amazing to see.
How has it been since that time.
What have you done from 2021till now 2023, just as you have
(12:06):
healed and also supported yourchildren in the process, and
your husband.
What does that look like for you?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I think I tried to give myself.
I'm not good at it 100%, I'mstill working but I think I
tried to give myself space and Itried to give myself grace.
I didn't just lose my son, Ilost my identity, I lost my
confidence, I lost my self-worth.
(12:36):
I lost I feel like I lost myplace in the world.
As moms, we will do anythingfor our children and when that
anything still doesn't actuallyhelp the child especially with
tragedy, it encapsulates you,demolishes you.
(12:58):
It just destroys you as a humanbeing.
It's kind of like a tornado,the kind that just comes in and
just destroys everything and youhave to find the strength and
the courage to rebuild.
And I think my other twochildren and my husband, they
gave me the strength and thecourage to say, okay, I'm going
(13:19):
to rebuild.
But that strength and couragelooks different on different
days.
I can't be the supermom that Ionce was.
We play so many.
It's always expected for usmoms to just show up and get it
done and be perfect while we'redoing it and then look good
while we're doing it.
(13:40):
There are so many hats, wejuggle so many balls and I had
to give myself grace in knowingthat I can't juggle, not as much
as I used to.
I might not be able to be theCEO or the PTO this time.
I might just be able to justshow up and support a fundraiser
.
I might not be able tovolunteer for all of my kids'
(14:02):
activities, I might just be ableto just show up and be mom.
I might be able to get threecourse meals three times a day
on the table.
Some days all I'm good for isjust dinner, and that has to be
okay.
And I remember in the earlystages of grief I felt so guilty
for not being able to live upto who I once was, and then the
(14:23):
people around me.
I always use the term normal.
I always say, since this hashappened, I feel some days I
feel like 100 years old.
I just feel like I'm justlooking around and everybody's
different, and sometimes I tryto compare myself to what other
mothers are doing, how they areparenting and how I used to
(14:43):
parent, and I used to feel soguilty and so bad.
But then I came to a pointwhere I said to give myself
grace and I said you know whatthis is me, this is how I am.
I didn't try to shield it frommy children, because I want my
children to see truth, becausewho knows what their reality is
going to look like when they getolder, and I don't want to
(15:03):
paint this picture that, oh,it's just perfect.
We lost an entire human being.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
But everything's just perfect.
It's strong.
Yes, you don't want to do it,especially as black people, as
black women, we're always toldto be strong.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Always told to be strong, and so I think I just
wanted to be honest, give myselfgrace and just move as I can,
and I just needed an environmentthat was conducive to me being
okay and being conducive to howI show up, and it be okay.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
How's it been for your children?
I saw a lot about your daughterbecause of course she was there
, yeah, and she took theswimming in.
I want you to touch on that.
But your son, your oldest son,how's it been with your husband?
Because you know that wholeyear with your son, you know
how's your relate there.
How have they been?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
My husband is.
I would say we traveled down,we lived completely different
journeys.
In that season he was home.
We kind of had to divide andconquer, but it was a big divide
and conquer.
Not you do the kids homework.
It was a big divide and conquerand it put us on separate roads
(16:17):
, separate grieving processes,healing processes.
And for my husband, he has hismoments, but I think he's more
so hopeful and trying to just beokay, and so he tries to
distract himself a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
They show it so different they show it very,
very, very differently and astrong thing, yes, and they're
trying to be their free, likethe support for you and the
strong man and household, allthe things.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, and so he spends a lot of time just trying
to rebuild in his own way.
My son, I think he's a replicaof his daddy, I think he's just
surrounded himself with becausewe are in Georgia now, so it's
still fairly new.
(17:10):
He's at that age where he's allabout his friends.
He's just all about having funand his video games.
And sometimes when I see himmoving just like I see my
husband, like I see my husbandmoving my husband can just move
from point A all the way to Z.
Sometimes I can't even get topoint B without freaking out.
(17:31):
So when I see my son doing thesame thing, sometimes I'll stop,
and in moments I'll stop himand I'll go.
How are you, do you still thinkabout Judah?
Because I don't want him to getin that zone where he just
forgets and he just distractsbecause he's unintentionally
trying to be strong.
I want him to talk about it andso he will mention it.
(17:54):
If I say something, he'llmention it, he'll talk.
I'll say, well, how do you feel?
And he'll go.
I'm sad, I'll go.
Well, do you still think aboutit?
And he'll go sometimes and I'llgo.
Well, how does it make you feel?
And he goes?
It's sad, but then I just dosomething else.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Right, yeah, and to me they're like they look, they
have the same face to me.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Oh, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I'm like, whenever I see him, especially when I'm
scrolling through your page, I'mlike wait.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Who's who?
Yeah, I have to think about it.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
To see his face and then your daughter to be there
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Ava is.
She's a woman.
She is very much a little womanand she expresses herself so
much and so well and I'm sohappy that she can tell me how
she feels and what she needs.
I remember, right after Judahdrowned, both of us we ended up
(18:57):
at the hospital my daughter'sthere, I'm here and I remember
there was an FBI agent that cameand she wanted to know what
happened and I remember in thatmoment just feeling so guilty
and so I'm like it was my faultand she's looking at me like it
was your fault and my daughter'slike no, it was not, it was not
(19:18):
my mommy's fault.
We went away.
And so she kept saying, well,it was my fault, because maybe
if I was able to swim I wouldhave been able to save him.
So no, mommy, it wasn't yourfault, it was my fault.
And I remember both of us, theold like me, just looking back
at her, just two differentgenerations, and we both, just
as women, just like automaticguilt, automatic guilt.
(19:40):
And I remember just telling herno, it wasn't your fault.
I think it was just one ofthose things.
And I remember later on shejust kept saying mommy, can you
put me in swim lessons?
And I just remember not wantingto go anywhere near water,
don't put me in there.
Bathtub, don't put me in thereswimming pool.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
That's usually the reaction.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I don't want to do anything and I don't want my
children to do anything, let'sjust stay away.
And she just kept asking.
We moved to Georgia and shejust kept saying mommy, can you
put me in swim lessons?
And I said yeah, I'll figure itout, and I'm thinking maybe she
was just going to leave italone.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
She would ask me and get mommy about those swim
lessons, can I please?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And then one day I just realized, okay, this is
important to her, this isimportant to her and she has her
own.
Her grieving process is not mygrieving process, so maybe this
is her way of telling me.
This is what I need.
So I found the swim school, Iput her in, but I put her in an
ASI course.
Asi is assisted survivalinstruction and it is different
(20:45):
from your usual swim class.
It's where they teach you howto save yourself in the event of
an emergency.
So, it's like a six week courseand your test to pass the class
is you are fully clothed andthey just throw you in the water
sneakers, everything and youare supposed to save yourself.
And I just remember going toher classes and before this she
(21:07):
really didn't want anything todo with water.
I tried to put her in swimlessons before.
She was not interested, but forsome reason she went in and she
just she was ready, whatever Ihave to do.
And I just remember watchingher and I was so inspired by now
seven year old little girl.
I was so inspired at her faiththat she would be okay, because
(21:30):
prior she was just like I'mgoing to drown and but she did
it.
And I remember being inspired byher faith and her strength and
I put her in counseling becauseshe just kept wanting to.
She would wake up, looking forher brother, just wondering,
wonder what Judah's doing.
(21:50):
I know he's dead, but can thedead still eat?
Can they still piss?
Can I still that?
And I remember putting her inbecause I couldn't answer those
questions.
And I remember putting her incounseling and I think, where
she is now, she knows that herlittle brother is not coming
(22:13):
back and she does have momentswhere she I think she wakes up
and it's like where's Judah?
I think this is something thatboth of my children are going to
process at each stage in theirlife, and I'm just hoping that I
have the strength and thecapacity to support them in all
(22:35):
those stages.
You do?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I'm looking at it.
You are literally like livingproof of what it looks like to
move through grief in a way thatworks for you.
But also God has strategicallyplaced your daughter right where
she needs to be, Like the wayshe has.
I'm listening to you talk andit's like he literally made sure
(23:03):
that whatever you lacked, shehad so that she can inspire you
to keep moving and to keepgrowing and to keep healing.
And so I do believe that youguys are going to just continue
to compliment each other.
And it's just interesting thathow women are just innately like
(23:24):
we have it in us already tojust do so much and to take on
so much, especially the guiltpart, like we always immediately
want it to be on us, no matterwhat that looks like, whether it
be responsibility or in allways, we just immediately put it
(23:44):
all on ourselves, and sometimesthat could be a bad thing.
I know we always are like, oh,we're not the superhero, but I
think in these cases sometimesit's a good thing because we
need it.
When you didn't have it, shehad it, and I would encourage
you to continue to let thatthrive in her, because I feel
(24:06):
like it's what you need to andyou're literally doing it.
It's not even like a try, likeyou're doing it.
It looks beautiful.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
How do you work on the?
Because, like we all said,outside of even these
circumstances, we blameourselves for anything.
And I think that's a controlledthing, because if you blame
yourself, you can fix it.
How do you work on the guiltthat you have and that you
shouldn't have, Like how do youtalk about that?
(24:36):
Because I think about not justin extreme cases like yours.
When I miscarried my firstchild, I was like man, I
shouldn't have those oysters orI should like I blame myself for
that.
So it's like what's the selftalk?
Look like to kind of work onthat self guilt, because I think
all moms, all people kind of dothat, or do you even know.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I think that's, I think, before all of this
happened.
It was a lot of mom guilt foreverything, if I remember my
daughter being on a one of thoselittle stupid hoverboards those
electric and I remember tellingher not to get on and she said,
well, I'm not gonna get on, butI'ma just slide it across.
She slid it across with herhands and her finger got caught
(25:24):
and it just slipped.
And I remember us being in thehospital and I'm just
automatically I'm crying, I'mlike this is my fault, I
should've been outside, and sothere was always just your
regular mom guilt.
And I think when this happened,I struggled a lot for a very,
very long time, feeling likeeverything was my fault.
(25:46):
We should've followed the COVID, we should've looked to people
on TV when they said don't gooutside, I shouldn't have had
the dog with me, I shouldn'thave let them bring scooters.
I mean I could've went on andon and on about should've,
could've, would've, but I thinkin that moment I realized that I
(26:06):
could not control what Ithought I could control.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And I think as moms.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
We think we can control all things regarding our
children, especially when theyare little, if we just we think
we have a sense of control andwhat I realized was that I don't
have control and I had to clingto my faith a lot.
There was so many nights Ispent just on my knees just
(26:34):
crying out to God saying, well,this wasn't my fault, like why,
how do I fix it?
How do I fix it?
And I just remember a guysaying to me you can't and I fix
it.
And I think the last couple ofyears I have just tried to, I've
just tried to tell myself thiswas not me.
(26:55):
I just can't control everything.
I have to be okay with that.
It's still hard, because notonly did I mom guilt myself
because of Judah, but I momguilted myself on my children's
trauma.
Oh my God, now they have to gothrough this because of me, now
(27:16):
my husband, we don't have threechildren anymore because and so
it goes deeper- yeah, it's likea snowball almost, and so when I
catch myself, I just have tostop and I just have to just
stand in God and just let Himsurround me.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
How'd you keep your faith?
There's a lot of people likeand not to say you didn't have a
why God or is God moment.
But how do you keep your faithwhen you've had such a tragedy?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I never doubted God's .
I've seen too much of yes, I'veseen too many miracles in my
life, and they may not have beenas tumultuous and terrible as
this, but I have seen God be Godso many times in my life and I
(28:05):
just kept telling myself thathe's the same God.
Nothing about Him has changed.
And if he could do it backthere, then he could do it here.
Will he do?
It was what I could not control.
Will he heal my baby, will he?
That was something that Icouldn't control.
(28:26):
The only thing that I could dois just have faith, and you know
, there's a scripture that saysfaith without works is dead.
And so, on this journey with myson, I wasn't trying to be God,
I was just trying to do thework.
I was just trying to get my babyto a place where I just wanted
God to be God, and when my babyleft, ultimately I just said
(28:47):
okay, this must be what Godwanted, and my faith suffered a
lot because, it takes big tallfaith to believe something like
that, especially when you havebecause I had to go against
science, I had to go againstdoctors.
I mean it was a literal fightevery day every day.
(29:09):
And it's a big tall faith for meto say I'm gonna wait on God.
I'm gonna wait on God, lookingat my baby, day after day, just
struggling, and I just said,it's okay, we're gonna wait on
God.
And at the end, the way that heleft without a goodbye, it was
just you wake up and boom, he'sgone.
And it's that big mountain offaith that I climbed for 15
(29:32):
months.
I think it was just a drop Very, very, very long way down.
I feel like I just I fell, Ihit the ground and to this day,
I still pick myself up.
Yeah, pick myself up and I falldown again, pick myself up.
It's a hard fall.
It's a hard fall, but I stillbelieve God.
(29:54):
I still believe God.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Like how, how, um.
So, like he said, when youshare this story initially, like
everybody around the worldpraying for you, there for you
when you shared of his passing,everybody there praying for you,
and not that you need the worldor social media to be okay, but
(30:19):
everybody's there for you.
I can't imagine how the lasttwo years have been as the world
kind of moves on and thesupport, like even in the family
and friends, like how has thatchanged been, I guess, like from
a support point, or like havingall these people and then going
from like now you're back to Idon't know for a reason, okay.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I call them secondary losses.
There is what you lose in thebeginning and there is the
support and just people aroundthe world, because it's a
popular story and it's the story.
But life goes on and I thinkone of the hardest things, one
of the hardest things that Itook from this journey, is that
(31:07):
life goes on, the world keeps onspinning, even when you're part
of the world stops.
The days keep on moving and youstill, you still.
You wake up the next morningand everything is just still
empty and everybody's going backto work and it's hard and I
remember friends that I had whenwe were in PA, that were we
(31:30):
were all so close and whentragedy struck, everybody just
disappeared, but not becausethey were bad people, it's
because you know you.
I realized during this timethat people don't really have a
lot of depth to them.
They don't have a lot of depth.
They know how to tell youthey're praying for you.
They know how to say there'sanything you need, I'm here,
(31:52):
yeah, I'll give you a meal, giveyou a couple dollars, but they
don't know how to be there andso sometimes it's scary and they
just back away.
And so I remember just being.
I remember it being a lot of myhusband and I.
And then my husband and I kindof kind of kind of drifted apart
(32:16):
from a grief standpoint becausewe were suffering in different
ways.
And so, you know, we spent agood portion of our marriage
being able to compliment eachother and be there for each
other.
But now our grief is differentand what we need is different,
and so I think we were just ahouse.
The world went on, and so therewas me and my home and my
(32:38):
children, and then we becamesort of a house divided, and I
just remember feeling alone.
I think the biggest blessingwas sisterhood.
It was sisterhood.
It wasn't my husband, it wasn'tmy children.
(33:00):
What gets me through everysingle day is sisterhood
friendship.
Just mom, and they don't have tohave the.
They don't have to go throughwhat we go through, but just as
women, we know how to be therefor each other.
And I think that is what.
That's what saved me.
(33:23):
It still saves me every day.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I say that, I literally just said that this
morning I was saying, like we,we love to rank, like you know
God, family, friends, you knowall the things.
I'm like God, sisterhood, familyyeah, they're going to be there
.
They're great, husband, awesomebut it's nothing like a sister,
(33:45):
it's nothing like a friend whocan just understand exactly
where you're at and you don'teven have to say a word.
They just know to show up, theyjust know to call, they just
know to pray.
You know what I mean and it isa beautiful thing and I love
that you just said that, becauseit's why we're here.
There's so many moms right nowthat are watching and they're
(34:07):
they're going to need every wordyou just said there.
And sometimes your sister ismaybe not somebody that you can
tangibly reach.
That's the beauty about socialmedia too is like to be able to
even feel that sisterhood withsomebody you don't even know,
but you feel it and you feelthat warmth and you're like man.
(34:27):
If my girl could get throughthat, I know that I can do it.
I so applaud you.
Is there anything you wouldeven say to a mother or to a
sister that would just encourageher as she goes through the
same journey of loss and griefand just trying to continue to
(34:49):
show up, but show up in grace?
What encouragement would yougive her?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I think I'll give her just what you said to show up
as much as you can when youcan't don't.
The world needs to be conduciveto how you grieve and how you
show up and it be OK and giveyourself grace the days that you
can Applaud yourself.
The days that you can't Justapplaud yourself that you still
(35:19):
got up because it's it's hard.
It's very, very, very hard.
Every day that we open our eyesand give ourselves, every day
that we open our eyes to life,as long as we are alive, god
will give us a reason to liveevery day.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Wow, this is an eye.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, I'm like this is amazing.
Thank you, absolutely.
Thank you for sharing yourheart.
You're welcome.
Thank you for being sotransparent, so vulnerable, with
two strangers but now sistershopefully.
Is there anything you want toshare with our viewers before we
(36:03):
go.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Find a sister, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well, we appreciate you.
We thank you for watching.
We pray that if you were notwatching this with a sister,
that somewhere along the episodeyou sent it really quick to
someone to join.
We ask that you share this,that you subscribe, that you
like, you comment all of thethings and, yeah, make sure,
(36:32):
where can we?
Speaker 1 (36:33):
follow you.
Yeah, my Instagram it is theJackson Family Values.
I do have a TikTok, but I don'tknow how to put it.
It's just Instagram for now.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
That's so good.
Thanks you so much for joiningus.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you guys for watching us.
Mom's, actually, we'remotherhood, we're sisterhood.
I just can't control everything, you know.
I just have to be okay withthat.
It's still hard.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
Hey mom, what's up, what's up, hey mom, what's up?
Speaker 3 (00:10):
Hey mom, what's up?
Hey mom, what's up?
Hey mom, what's up?
Hello, welcome to Mom's.
Actually On Flare.
Hey, hello, this is Morgan andwe have our special guest, dr
Berlinda Jackson.
Welcome, how are you doing?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I'm doing good.
How are?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
you guys.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Good, good, I'm feeling good.
I'm excited about the episode.
I'm excited to have you here,thank you.
So I want to go ahead and justjump right in.
You guys know how it goes.
We do its giving motherhood.
Now, this is our icebreaker.
This is just for all of ourguests to be able to just, you
know, get all the kinks out warmup a little bit get used to us.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
You know what I'm saying?
Breathe a little bit.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Very, very light.
So what I'm going to do is I'mgoing to say a word.
It's going to be a quick littlerapid fire.
Blair and I are going toalternate really quick, but the
first answer actually this is alittle this or that.
So the first is the rightanswer and we're just going to
ask you which one you wouldprefer and you just give us your
answer and we'll just go fromthere.
Ok, all right, first one coffeeor tea.
(01:08):
Tea.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Girls night or girls trip, girls trip.
Ok, she's like give me out ofhere.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
TikTok scroll or IG scroll.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
IG scroll.
I don't know how to use TikTok.
Don't do it.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Don't do it, don't do the TikTok Airbnb or hotel.
Speaker 1 (01:30):
Airbnb OK.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
All right, all right.
So are you asking first or areyou apologizing later?
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Apologizing later, ok .
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Riz take care.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
There's a story there .
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Phone call or text message.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Text message me, don't call.
Don't call me, text me babies20s or your 30s 30s.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Yeah, I agree 30s.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I feel like when you're a woman, it's giving more
freedom.
Freedom, like you know yourselfbetter, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
You're more comfortable.
I always say I would never,ever go back to my 20s?
Speaker 1 (02:07):
No me either.
Not even my teenage years.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
It's a little ghetto, it's a lot.
Ghetto, very ghetto, it was alot.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Just a little maybe but it was needed, you know what
I'm saying, I feel like.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
I mean I had my first daughter at 20.
So I would go back because Iwould love to have her Layla,
you needed to exist.
Yes, Layla needs to exist, butyeah, learning experiences, but
I wouldn't necessarily like tolive.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
No, I'm good.
So we have you here today,because 2020 meant something
completely different to you thanit did to the rest of the world
at the time.
So I just want you to tell us alittle bit about you and your
story.
Your story.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Well, I'm originally from Philadelphia.
That's where we were 2020.
I'm married, I have a wonderfulhusband and we have three
children.
They were four, six and eightand, like most people at 2020,
we were sheltered in place,can't go nowhere.
(03:11):
They only want you to look atanybody.
I mean, everybody was justencapsulated and everybody was
working from home, my husband'sworking from home, I'm working
from home, the kids, lord Jesus.
So working from home.
It was a lot and I think we justdecided to break away in the
middle of the day and get themout to the park from fresh air.
(03:33):
Some scooters, some basketball,and so we took them out and the
kind of park we went to it wasa state park and it has like a
walking trail around it.
It has a lake in the middle,playground, your typical state
park and we took them there andmy husband took our oldest son.
They went off to go playbasketball and I kept my son
(03:56):
Judah, who was just turned four,and my daughter Ava, who had
just turned six, and we weretaking a walk around the walking
trail and they had theirscooters, I had the dog and
maybe within 20 minutes of beingthere, the kids scooted off and
(04:16):
my dog did his business in thegrass and I got distracted and I
went to go pick up puppy poopand the kids turned the bin and
my son got into the lake.
I drowned.
I remember when I finally caughtup to them and I still thought
(04:40):
they were on scooters I did hearscreaming, I did hear shuffling
, but everything happened soquickly and when I got there
nobody was on scooters anymore.
My daughter was just standingin this.
It looked like a limitless lakeand I don't see Judah and I'm
like well, where is Judah?
My daughter's screaming andshe's just like we were waiting
for you and Judah went under thewater and when I heard that, I
(05:03):
think my heart just went into avice grip Because it's like you
were just right here.
What do you mean?
He's under the water.
I'm thinking maybe he's at theprey ground, maybe he just can't
be under the water.
Because I can't see him and Ididn't react as quickly as I
could.
You know, a lot of peopleshoulda, coulda, woulda, I
(05:26):
woulda jumped in, I, woulda.
I didn't do any of that.
I think it took me about 30seconds for my brain to register
my baby is really in the waterand I went in and I saw shoes
swimming and I went and grabbedit.
I thought it was him, it wasjust his shoes.
And I remember running to getmy husband and I just kept
(05:50):
thinking my husband can do it, Ican't do it, my husband can
find him and everything will beOK.
But everything was not OK.
Thankfully, a good Samaritancalled the police.
They were there within 60seconds, dived into the water.
They found him.
He was at the bottom of thelake and when they pulled him
out he didn't have a pulse, hedidn't have a heartbeat, and
(06:13):
they threw him in the ambulance,took us to the nearest hospital
and by the time we got there wewere allowed to see him.
He was just tubes.
He just looked lifeless.
And I just remember praying God, please don't take my baby,
please don't take my baby.
And later on through the nightthey transported him to a
(06:39):
children's hospital and theydidn't know whether he would
live or die, and so I thinkduring that time they said his
brain was so swollen they couldnot do an MRI.
So it was just a waiting game.
And of course, you guys know mefrom social media.
We share the kids and sharefunny stories, and I was very
hesitant to share something likethis.
(07:01):
But I think I needed prayer.
I needed the prayers frommothers, from fathers, whoever
you believe in.
I just needed prayer.
And I remember posting it andit just started going viral.
Everywhere.
We had people everywherefamilies, mothers, fathers,
grandmothers, I mean everybodyjust prayed.
(07:23):
A couple days later they did anMRI and they told me that my
baby was severely brain damaged.
I remember them showing me apicture of his brain and the
neurologist said the pink areasare healthy brain and every area
where there is gray it'sdamaged brain.
And by damage we mean it'sirreparable.
(07:44):
And I remember looking at thepicture everything was just gray
, everything was just gray.
And they told me that my babywould never walk again, he would
never talk again, he wouldnever be able to see or hear.
He was just a vegetable.
And they encouraged me towithdraw care and I refused.
(08:05):
I think a part of me refusedbecause I was scared.
A part of me refused because Isaid that Big Lake, they found
him and he was still alive.
If he still had a heartbeat, ifhe still had a pulse, that
meant he was still meant to behere.
And I didn't want to play God.
I wanted God to be God, I justwanted to be mom and so I
(08:27):
refused to withdraw care, and hestayed alive for about 15
months.
I remember just traveling allacross the country just in
search of different treatmentshyperbaric oxygen therapy, stem
cell treatment, functionalneurology.
I tried, I tried.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
You advocated for him .
Speaker 2 (08:48):
I did my best, but I have never seen.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I did my best and unfortunately, 15 November of
2021, that Sunday night, we puthim to bed and all was well.
It was his normal and Iremember putting him to bed.
He had his own bed, but Ialways just kept him in bed with
us just in case something wouldhappen.
(09:11):
I'd be able to react quickly.
We put him to bed and we wokeup Monday morning and he was
gone.
He's gone.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I just also want to say, like I remember they told
you he would be a vegetable, butthe way you advocated for him,
and brought him to differentdoctors, no matter what it cost
you time, money.
He exceeded expectations.
That's why, when Novemberhappened, I think everybody was
(09:44):
shocked Because he had startedmoving a bit, or he had started
to.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
They said he couldn't see.
He could see.
They said he couldn't hear.
He would call him, he wouldlook at you.
They said he would never beable to feed himself.
He couldn't feed himself, buthe was able to eat, he could
move.
And so I had so much faith.
I had so much faith and I wassuch a mom.
As moms, we will do anything atany cost, and we don't know how
(10:15):
strong we are until we're putin that hot water.
And so I did what I could as amom.
I couldn't be God.
I wish I could, I wish I couldhave in those moments, but I
couldn't be, just be mom.
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I always say we're not superheroes, but I'm glad we
know how to be a superhero?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, we do.
And I would definitely say first, before anything, like I just
appreciate your transparency, Iappreciate your story and I know
there are so many other momswho are going to appreciate your
transparency in your stories,because there are plenty of moms
who have had such a loss andtheir faith has been shattered
(10:58):
and you are a greatrepresentation of what faith
looks like to advocate for yourchild and to say no, like the
doctor, if I'm not God, thedoctor's not going to be God.
You know what I mean.
For you to be able to say thatand believe it is so honorable.
So I literally am just lookingat you as a woman of valor and
(11:24):
it's amazing to see because,even though the outcome wasn't
what was ideal, you're standinghere today in a way that you
could show so many women faith.
You can show so many womenstrength, but you can also show
that it's hard and it's OK togrieve and it's OK to feel,
(11:46):
while also being strong and thesame.
They can coexist and I thinkthat's just so amazing to see.
How has it been since that time.
What have you done from 2021till now 2023, just as you have
(12:06):
healed and also supported yourchildren in the process, and
your husband.
What does that look like for you?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
I think I tried to give myself.
I'm not good at it 100%, I'mstill working but I think I
tried to give myself space and Itried to give myself grace.
I didn't just lose my son, Ilost my identity, I lost my
confidence, I lost my self-worth.
(12:36):
I lost I feel like I lost myplace in the world.
As moms, we will do anythingfor our children and when that
anything still doesn't actuallyhelp the child especially with
tragedy, it encapsulates you,demolishes you.
(12:58):
It just destroys you as a humanbeing.
It's kind of like a tornado,the kind that just comes in and
just destroys everything and youhave to find the strength and
the courage to rebuild.
And I think my other twochildren and my husband, they
gave me the strength and thecourage to say, okay, I'm going
(13:19):
to rebuild.
But that strength and couragelooks different on different
days.
I can't be the supermom that Ionce was.
We play so many.
It's always expected for usmoms to just show up and get it
done and be perfect while we'redoing it and then look good
while we're doing it.
(13:40):
There are so many hats, wejuggle so many balls and I had
to give myself grace in knowingthat I can't juggle, not as much
as I used to.
I might not be able to be theCEO or the PTO this time.
I might just be able to justshow up and support a fundraiser
.
I might not be able tovolunteer for all of my kids'
(14:02):
activities, I might just be ableto just show up and be mom.
I might be able to get threecourse meals three times a day
on the table.
Some days all I'm good for isjust dinner, and that has to be
okay.
And I remember in the earlystages of grief I felt so guilty
for not being able to live upto who I once was, and then the
(14:23):
people around me.
I always use the term normal.
I always say, since this hashappened, I feel some days I
feel like 100 years old.
I just feel like I'm justlooking around and everybody's
different, and sometimes I tryto compare myself to what other
mothers are doing, how they areparenting and how I used to
(14:43):
parent, and I used to feel soguilty and so bad.
But then I came to a pointwhere I said to give myself
grace and I said you know whatthis is me, this is how I am.
I didn't try to shield it frommy children, because I want my
children to see truth, becausewho knows what their reality is
going to look like when they getolder, and I don't want to
(15:03):
paint this picture that, oh,it's just perfect.
We lost an entire human being.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
But everything's just perfect.
It's strong.
Yes, you don't want to do it,especially as black people, as
black women, we're always toldto be strong.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Always told to be strong, and so I think I just
wanted to be honest, give myselfgrace and just move as I can,
and I just needed an environmentthat was conducive to me being
okay and being conducive to howI show up, and it be okay.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
How's it been for your children?
I saw a lot about your daughterbecause of course she was there
, yeah, and she took theswimming in.
I want you to touch on that.
But your son, your oldest son,how's it been with your husband?
Because you know that wholeyear with your son, you know
how's your relate there.
How have they been?
Speaker 1 (15:54):
My husband is.
I would say we traveled down,we lived completely different
journeys.
In that season he was home.
We kind of had to divide andconquer, but it was a big divide
and conquer.
Not you do the kids homework.
It was a big divide and conquerand it put us on separate roads
(16:17):
, separate grieving processes,healing processes.
And for my husband, he has hismoments, but I think he's more
so hopeful and trying to just beokay, and so he tries to
distract himself a lot.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
They show it so different they show it very,
very, very differently and astrong thing, yes, and they're
trying to be their free, likethe support for you and the
strong man and household, allthe things.
Speaker 1 (16:49):
Yeah, and so he spends a lot of time just trying
to rebuild in his own way.
My son, I think he's a replicaof his daddy, I think he's just
surrounded himself with becausewe are in Georgia now, so it's
still fairly new.
(17:10):
He's at that age where he's allabout his friends.
He's just all about having funand his video games.
And sometimes when I see himmoving just like I see my
husband, like I see my husbandmoving my husband can just move
from point A all the way to Z.
Sometimes I can't even get topoint B without freaking out.
(17:31):
So when I see my son doing thesame thing, sometimes I'll stop,
and in moments I'll stop himand I'll go.
How are you, do you still thinkabout Judah?
Because I don't want him to getin that zone where he just
forgets and he just distractsbecause he's unintentionally
trying to be strong.
I want him to talk about it andso he will mention it.
(17:54):
If I say something, he'llmention it, he'll talk.
I'll say, well, how do you feel?
And he'll go.
I'm sad, I'll go.
Well, do you still think aboutit?
And he'll go sometimes and I'llgo.
Well, how does it make you feel?
And he goes?
It's sad, but then I just dosomething else.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Right, yeah, and to me they're like they look, they
have the same face to me.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
Oh, yeah, so.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I'm like, whenever I see him, especially when I'm
scrolling through your page, I'mlike wait.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
Who's who?
Yeah, I have to think about it.
Speaker 3 (18:25):
To see his face and then your daughter to be there
in that moment.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Ava is.
She's a woman.
She is very much a little womanand she expresses herself so
much and so well and I'm sohappy that she can tell me how
she feels and what she needs.
I remember, right after Judahdrowned, both of us we ended up
(18:57):
at the hospital my daughter'sthere, I'm here and I remember
there was an FBI agent that cameand she wanted to know what
happened and I remember in thatmoment just feeling so guilty
and so I'm like it was my faultand she's looking at me like it
was your fault and my daughter'slike no, it was not, it was not
(19:18):
my mommy's fault.
We went away.
And so she kept saying, well,it was my fault, because maybe
if I was able to swim I wouldhave been able to save him.
So no, mommy, it wasn't yourfault, it was my fault.
And I remember both of us, theold like me, just looking back
at her, just two differentgenerations, and we both, just
as women, just like automaticguilt, automatic guilt.
(19:40):
And I remember just telling herno, it wasn't your fault.
I think it was just one ofthose things.
And I remember later on shejust kept saying mommy, can you
put me in swim lessons?
And I just remember not wantingto go anywhere near water,
don't put me in there.
Bathtub, don't put me in thereswimming pool.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
That's usually the reaction.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I don't want to do anything and I don't want my
children to do anything, let'sjust stay away.
And she just kept asking.
We moved to Georgia and shejust kept saying mommy, can you
put me in swim lessons?
And I said yeah, I'll figure itout, and I'm thinking maybe she
was just going to leave italone.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
She would ask me and get mommy about those swim
lessons, can I please?
Speaker 1 (20:19):
And then one day I just realized, okay, this is
important to her, this isimportant to her and she has her
own.
Her grieving process is not mygrieving process, so maybe this
is her way of telling me.
This is what I need.
So I found the swim school, Iput her in, but I put her in an
ASI course.
Asi is assisted survivalinstruction and it is different
(20:45):
from your usual swim class.
It's where they teach you howto save yourself in the event of
an emergency.
So, it's like a six week courseand your test to pass the class
is you are fully clothed andthey just throw you in the water
sneakers, everything and youare supposed to save yourself.
And I just remember going toher classes and before this she
(21:07):
really didn't want anything todo with water.
I tried to put her in swimlessons before.
She was not interested, but forsome reason she went in and she
just she was ready, whatever Ihave to do.
And I just remember watchingher and I was so inspired by now
seven year old little girl.
I was so inspired at her faiththat she would be okay, because
(21:30):
prior she was just like I'mgoing to drown and but she did
it.
And I remember being inspired byher faith and her strength and
I put her in counseling becauseshe just kept wanting to.
She would wake up, looking forher brother, just wondering,
wonder what Judah's doing.
(21:50):
I know he's dead, but can thedead still eat?
Can they still piss?
Can I still that?
And I remember putting her inbecause I couldn't answer those
questions.
And I remember putting her incounseling and I think, where
she is now, she knows that herlittle brother is not coming
(22:13):
back and she does have momentswhere she I think she wakes up
and it's like where's Judah?
I think this is something thatboth of my children are going to
process at each stage in theirlife, and I'm just hoping that I
have the strength and thecapacity to support them in all
(22:35):
those stages.
You do?
Speaker 2 (22:38):
I'm looking at it.
You are literally like livingproof of what it looks like to
move through grief in a way thatworks for you.
But also God has strategicallyplaced your daughter right where
she needs to be, Like the wayshe has.
I'm listening to you talk andit's like he literally made sure
(23:03):
that whatever you lacked, shehad so that she can inspire you
to keep moving and to keepgrowing and to keep healing.
And so I do believe that youguys are going to just continue
to compliment each other.
And it's just interesting thathow women are just innately like
(23:24):
we have it in us already tojust do so much and to take on
so much, especially the guiltpart, like we always immediately
want it to be on us, no matterwhat that looks like, whether it
be responsibility or in allways, we just immediately put it
(23:44):
all on ourselves, and sometimesthat could be a bad thing.
I know we always are like, oh,we're not the superhero, but I
think in these cases sometimesit's a good thing because we
need it.
When you didn't have it, shehad it, and I would encourage
you to continue to let thatthrive in her, because I feel
(24:06):
like it's what you need to andyou're literally doing it.
It's not even like a try, likeyou're doing it.
It looks beautiful.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
How do you work on the?
Because, like we all said,outside of even these
circumstances, we blameourselves for anything.
And I think that's a controlledthing, because if you blame
yourself, you can fix it.
How do you work on the guiltthat you have and that you
shouldn't have, Like how do youtalk about that?
(24:36):
Because I think about not justin extreme cases like yours.
When I miscarried my firstchild, I was like man, I
shouldn't have those oysters orI should like I blame myself for
that.
So it's like what's the selftalk?
Look like to kind of work onthat self guilt, because I think
all moms, all people kind of dothat, or do you even know.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
I think that's, I think, before all of this
happened.
It was a lot of mom guilt foreverything, if I remember my
daughter being on a one of thoselittle stupid hoverboards those
electric and I remember tellingher not to get on and she said,
well, I'm not gonna get on, butI'ma just slide it across.
She slid it across with herhands and her finger got caught
(25:24):
and it just slipped.
And I remember us being in thehospital and I'm just
automatically I'm crying, I'mlike this is my fault, I
should've been outside, and sothere was always just your
regular mom guilt.
And I think when this happened,I struggled a lot for a very,
very long time, feeling likeeverything was my fault.
(25:46):
We should've followed the COVID, we should've looked to people
on TV when they said don't gooutside, I shouldn't have had
the dog with me, I shouldn'thave let them bring scooters.
I mean I could've went on andon and on about should've,
could've, would've, but I thinkin that moment I realized that I
(26:06):
could not control what Ithought I could control.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And I think as moms.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
We think we can control all things regarding our
children, especially when theyare little, if we just we think
we have a sense of control andwhat I realized was that I don't
have control and I had to clingto my faith a lot.
There was so many nights Ispent just on my knees just
(26:34):
crying out to God saying, well,this wasn't my fault, like why,
how do I fix it?
How do I fix it?
And I just remember a guysaying to me you can't and I fix
it.
And I think the last couple ofyears I have just tried to, I've
just tried to tell myself thiswas not me.
(26:55):
I just can't control everything.
I have to be okay with that.
It's still hard, because notonly did I mom guilt myself
because of Judah, but I momguilted myself on my children's
trauma.
Oh my God, now they have to gothrough this because of me, now
(27:16):
my husband, we don't have threechildren anymore because and so
it goes deeper- yeah, it's likea snowball almost, and so when I
catch myself, I just have tostop and I just have to just
stand in God and just let Himsurround me.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah, you know what I mean.
How'd you keep your faith?
There's a lot of people likeand not to say you didn't have a
why God or is God moment.
But how do you keep your faithwhen you've had such a tragedy?
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I never doubted God's .
I've seen too much of yes, I'veseen too many miracles in my
life, and they may not have beenas tumultuous and terrible as
this, but I have seen God be Godso many times in my life and I
(28:05):
just kept telling myself thathe's the same God.
Nothing about Him has changed.
And if he could do it backthere, then he could do it here.
Will he do?
It was what I could not control.
Will he heal my baby, will he?
That was something that Icouldn't control.
(28:26):
The only thing that I could dois just have faith, and you know
, there's a scripture that saysfaith without works is dead.
And so, on this journey with myson, I wasn't trying to be God,
I was just trying to do thework.
I was just trying to get my babyto a place where I just wanted
God to be God, and when my babyleft, ultimately I just said
(28:47):
okay, this must be what Godwanted, and my faith suffered a
lot because, it takes big tallfaith to believe something like
that, especially when you havebecause I had to go against
science, I had to go againstdoctors.
I mean it was a literal fightevery day every day.
(29:09):
And it's a big tall faith for meto say I'm gonna wait on God.
I'm gonna wait on God, lookingat my baby, day after day, just
struggling, and I just said,it's okay, we're gonna wait on
God.
And at the end, the way that heleft without a goodbye, it was
just you wake up and boom, he'sgone.
And it's that big mountain offaith that I climbed for 15
(29:32):
months.
I think it was just a drop Very, very, very long way down.
I feel like I just I fell, Ihit the ground and to this day,
I still pick myself up.
Yeah, pick myself up and I falldown again, pick myself up.
It's a hard fall.
It's a hard fall, but I stillbelieve God.
(29:54):
I still believe God.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Like how, how, um.
So, like he said, when youshare this story initially, like
everybody around the worldpraying for you, there for you
when you shared of his passing,everybody there praying for you,
and not that you need the worldor social media to be okay, but
(30:19):
everybody's there for you.
I can't imagine how the lasttwo years have been as the world
kind of moves on and thesupport, like even in the family
and friends, like how has thatchanged been, I guess, like from
a support point, or like havingall these people and then going
from like now you're back to Idon't know for a reason, okay.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I call them secondary losses.
There is what you lose in thebeginning and there is the
support and just people aroundthe world, because it's a
popular story and it's the story.
But life goes on and I thinkone of the hardest things, one
of the hardest things that Itook from this journey, is that
(31:07):
life goes on, the world keeps onspinning, even when you're part
of the world stops.
The days keep on moving and youstill, you still.
You wake up the next morningand everything is just still
empty and everybody's going backto work and it's hard and I
remember friends that I had whenwe were in PA, that were we
(31:30):
were all so close and whentragedy struck, everybody just
disappeared, but not becausethey were bad people, it's
because you know you.
I realized during this timethat people don't really have a
lot of depth to them.
They don't have a lot of depth.
They know how to tell youthey're praying for you.
They know how to say there'sanything you need, I'm here,
(31:52):
yeah, I'll give you a meal, giveyou a couple dollars, but they
don't know how to be there andso sometimes it's scary and they
just back away.
And so I remember just being.
I remember it being a lot of myhusband and I.
And then my husband and I kindof kind of kind of drifted apart
(32:16):
from a grief standpoint becausewe were suffering in different
ways.
And so, you know, we spent agood portion of our marriage
being able to compliment eachother and be there for each
other.
But now our grief is differentand what we need is different,
and so I think we were just ahouse.
The world went on, and so therewas me and my home and my
(32:38):
children, and then we becamesort of a house divided, and I
just remember feeling alone.
I think the biggest blessingwas sisterhood.
It was sisterhood.
It wasn't my husband, it wasn'tmy children.
(33:00):
What gets me through everysingle day is sisterhood
friendship.
Just mom, and they don't have tohave the.
They don't have to go throughwhat we go through, but just as
women, we know how to be therefor each other.
And I think that is what.
That's what saved me.
(33:23):
It still saves me every day.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
I say that, I literally just said that this
morning I was saying, like we,we love to rank, like you know
God, family, friends, you knowall the things.
I'm like God, sisterhood, familyyeah, they're going to be there
.
They're great, husband, awesomebut it's nothing like a sister,
(33:45):
it's nothing like a friend whocan just understand exactly
where you're at and you don'teven have to say a word.
They just know to show up, theyjust know to call, they just
know to pray.
You know what I mean and it isa beautiful thing and I love
that you just said that, becauseit's why we're here.
There's so many moms right nowthat are watching and they're
(34:07):
they're going to need every wordyou just said there.
And sometimes your sister ismaybe not somebody that you can
tangibly reach.
That's the beauty about socialmedia too is like to be able to
even feel that sisterhood withsomebody you don't even know,
but you feel it and you feelthat warmth and you're like man.
(34:27):
If my girl could get throughthat, I know that I can do it.
I so applaud you.
Is there anything you wouldeven say to a mother or to a
sister that would just encourageher as she goes through the
same journey of loss and griefand just trying to continue to
(34:49):
show up, but show up in grace?
What encouragement would yougive her?
Speaker 1 (34:56):
I think I'll give her just what you said to show up
as much as you can when youcan't don't.
The world needs to be conduciveto how you grieve and how you
show up and it be OK and giveyourself grace the days that you
can Applaud yourself.
The days that you can't Justapplaud yourself that you still
(35:19):
got up because it's it's hard.
It's very, very, very hard.
Every day that we open our eyesand give ourselves, every day
that we open our eyes to life,as long as we are alive, god
will give us a reason to liveevery day.
Speaker 2 (35:39):
Wow, this is an eye.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Yeah, I'm like this is amazing.
Thank you, absolutely.
Thank you for sharing yourheart.
You're welcome.
Thank you for being sotransparent, so vulnerable, with
two strangers but now sistershopefully.
Is there anything you want toshare with our viewers before we
(36:03):
go.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Find a sister, yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Well, we appreciate you.
We thank you for watching.
We pray that if you were notwatching this with a sister,
that somewhere along the episodeyou sent it really quick to
someone to join.
We ask that you share this,that you subscribe, that you
like, you comment all of thethings and, yeah, make sure,
(36:32):
where can we?
Speaker 1 (36:33):
follow you.
Yeah, my Instagram it is theJackson Family Values.
I do have a TikTok, but I don'tknow how to put it.
It's just Instagram for now.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
That's so good.
Thanks you so much for joiningus.
Yes, absolutely.
Thank you guys for watching us.
Mom's, actually, we'remotherhood, we're sisterhood.
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