A MAM Alone

Leah is left all alone this week, but thankfully Charise and Abby Sterner were able to keep her company. We discuss TEG's interview with the documentarians behind "Same Sex Attracted" The meaning of the term "Master Bedroom" & Leah's kids hoarding. Later we weigh in an the Dr. Phil Turnabout Range scandal and if teen recovery programs and camps do more harm than good.

Episode Transcript

(00:22):
Listen, I'm gonna show you howto shake from das. Why don't you
get us on and my girl Wagsand Robin here to the bust day up
you ever listened to It's like,hey, my good morning dove. That

(00:54):
day be ma'am day everyone, thankyou for tuning in to Mom's in Mayhem.
I am your host hand of thebook again, Leah Kasari, because
I keep forgetting to change my namewhen I record a new show and with
me not as always. First,we have Abby Sterner filling in for Amanda

(01:18):
wagon Seller today. How are youAbby? I'm good. I'm happy to
be back again. Thank you somuch for coming back. We got so
many compliments on our last episode fromyou too. Yeah, and also speaking
you two. Also with us isour SHARISI poo, our wonderful Exmo Ginger

(01:38):
and and in house Wing ma'am isgoing to fill in for Robin today because
neither of them could be here.So I am a mam alone. So
luckily, luckily I have two fabulouswomen to fill in with me. Yeah,
we had a lot of people.Wags got a couple of text messages
saying how great you guys were lastweek, So thank you so much.

(02:01):
It was such a great episode.Was fun. Oh, I had a
lot of fun. Good I'm glad. Did you listen back to Were you
happy with the way it turned out? I hope you guys are okay?
I did. I so, Iremember like the highlights of the conversation,
but like you don't really remember everythingas you're having you don't the conversation,
so when you go back, it'salmost like you're listening to it the first

(02:23):
time. And I was like,Hey, this was actually really good.
I felt like there was good chemistry, good flow, everyone was laughing.
I thought it was really good.And Greg listened to it, and he
of course got his ego stroked alittle bit, so he liked that episode.
I was going to ask what Sternerthought of the episode. Was he
okay with it? Was he happywith it? Oh? Yeah, he

(02:45):
was. He was totally fine withit. I don't think, I said.
I mean, I know that wegave him a little bit of shit
about the ketchup and steak fiasco again, yeah, But other than that,
I mean, I feel like hewas cast in a pretty positive light for
the whole episode. Very pleased.I think he was. I think he
was a little nervous because when werecording, I believe it was teat um.

(03:07):
He was like, I said toAbby, are you sure you want
to do this? Like those thosewomen can get a little raunchy and add
And you said back to him like, who do you think you're married too?
Like that's some wilting flower. Likeseriously, yeah, so you were.
It takes a lot to get methe blush. Yes, it was
wonderful. So thank you so much, absolutely amazing. In Cherise, I'm

(03:32):
just going to jump right in.You had so we were recording this today.
Normally record on Tuesday as I hada kid thing, so I had
to push it. Um. Butyour episode of The Existential Ginger aired today
and it is so good. Canyou tell us a little bit about this
interview? Oh? Thank you?Yeah? Um, I mean I feel

(03:53):
like I love every episode Selfishly,I know I'm biased, but I'm really
really proud of this one. SoI interviewed the filmmakers behind a documentary called
Same Sex Attracted and it's a documentarythat follows queer students that go to Brigham
Young University, which is a Mormonowned and operated college in Utah. And

(04:19):
yeah, it was such a funconversation, and if you get a chance
to watch the documentary, I can'trecommend it enough. I know it's on
Apple and iTunes right now, andthey're working on getting it on some other
some other platforms. But I mean, they made this movie when they were
twenty years old, which just likeblows my mind because I think back to

(04:41):
when I was twenty and I don'twant to call them kids. They are
grown ass adults. But when Iwas twenty, I was a kid and
I had no idea what I wasdoing, Like, there's no way I
could have done something this profound,this important, this beautiful. Yeah.
So I'm just I'm really honored thatthey I agreed to talk to me,
And honestly, the conversation was sofun. It just felt like I was

(05:04):
catching up with two old friends.Yeah, it does. They were a
great um. They were great.They were fabulous guests. I was wondering
you reached out to them and theywere just like, sure, we'll come
on your podcast, which I don'tget. You have the best luck with
guests. It's it's mind blowing.We can't get people on teat like it's

(05:26):
like pulling teet to get people onteat you get people like left and right.
For those who don't know, BYUthey have very strict rules, right,
like like the boys and girls cannotlike dating is almost like not forbidden,
but they can't like be in coed dorms or anything like that.
Like they have those kind of rules. Oh. Yes, it's a very

(05:46):
very strict college. And so theyhave I mean every school has like a
code of ethics that they expect theirstudents to follow to stay in good standing
with the university. But BYU kindof takes that too extremes because everybody that
goes there, whether or not they'reMormon, is held to Mormon standards.
So you you know, even ifyou're straight and you have sex with your

(06:14):
boyfriend or girlfriend, you can bekicked out of school, but particularly if
you are quote unquote same sex attracted, which is what the Mormon Church refers
to all LGBTQ plus people as Soyeah, they're they're very very strict,
and a lot of students, youknow, live in fear of being kicked

(06:40):
out and losing their scholarships and losingtheir accreditations and I mean losing their chance
at graduating just simply based on thefact that they're queer, which is that
was a thing that really blew mymind about that. It's like, to
me, college is like when mykids get old enough, Like I'm going
to be thinking in my head,and I'd like to think that I'm the

(07:02):
type of parent that would say tothem like this is this is when you
figure your shit out. Yeah,like when you figure your shit out emotionally,
sexually anyway, Like you're gonna trydrugs, this is when you're gonna
do it, Like this is whenyou're gonna figure who exactly so, because
you can't once you're done, Likethat's when the game is. Yeah,

(07:26):
you have this four year span tolike really fuck up and have fun and
to you really do come into yourown around that those four years of life
and to be a queer person andhave not be able to live your authentic
self or even try to because you'llbe expelled for it is just it's mind

(07:48):
blowing. And I think this documentarywas really important in a sense to expose
that kind of thing. Did youfeel that they felt that way, Yeah,
I mean they they even said inthe interview that's the primary reason that
they made the film, as they'relike there just wasn't really any media that
was representing queer kids at the schooland what they were actually going through,

(08:09):
and we wanted to show that,like, hey, this community is here
and they love their university and they'reproud to go here, but they're scared
and they don't feel safe and theyshould and here's what's happening. Yeah.
Yeah, it is a brilliant interview. I recommend all of our listeners go

(08:30):
listen to it. It is sogood. And I'm not just saying that
because it's white Horse, Like,really, this is a great interview.
It really is. And the documentaryyou said, as of right now is
on Apple One, Apple, andGoogle. I know they're in they're in
the process of trying to get onAmazon, and you know the filmmaker is

(08:50):
Maddie and Zoe. They even saidto me, they're like, we don't
even care if we make money offof this, Like we're not charging much
of anything to get it on theseplatforms. We just want our film out
there. So if you have thechance to buy it, like, please
buy it if you if you're ableto support them, because I just think
like that in and of itself,I'm like, holy shit, they don't
even want to make money off ofit, right, They're just trying to

(09:13):
get it out there, and Ijust give them so much credit, Like,
look, we're all in our latethirties early forties and we can barely
get shit going. So I don'tknow how they made a movie. Yeah,
they made a goddamn movie, afull movie, and it's good.
So go watch it. It's it'sreally good, and definitely listen to Charisa's
show. Abby. How was yourweek? What did you do this week?

(09:37):
My week has been fine. Iam currently on like a little bit
of a hiatus because I left avery stressful, very toxic job and I'm
taking about a one to two monthsof break because I have not had a
vacation in over two years. Ohmy god, I'm serious. And yeah,

(10:01):
I'm just I'm trying to like gathermyself, get get get back on
solid footing and get my own businessup and running. So I have just
been taking it easy. But Idid have the absolute pleasure of getting to
me my new grandson. So Ifeel like I need to give everybody like

(10:26):
a little bit of like family historyhere because I'm thirty one, so that's
a little weird, but so myhusband, Greg was married before, and
his ex wife is six or sevenyears his senior, and she had two
kids before Greg married her, andGreg adopted those two boys. So his

(10:52):
oldest adopted son is only three yearsyounger than me. He's the same age
as my younger brother. So it'sbeen kind of like a strange dynamic.
I feel like I should have myown spinoff on ABC family of Modern Family.
I can be like Modern Family twopoint now, I think, Yeah,
Sturners Um and yeah, So hejust had his first kid, and

(11:18):
uh, you know, Greg andI were sick with COVID, so we
had to wait over a month tofinally meet him. But we got to
meet him this past weekend. Andhe is just the cutest, tiniest little
peanut baby you've ever seen in yourlife. He was smaller after a month
than either one of my boys whenthey were born. Oh my god,
I don't think I've ever even helda baby that's small. Um was yearly,

(11:43):
he was, no, he wasif he was early at all,
it was only a few days aweek maybe. Wow. So he was
just a little peanut. But hewas like five pounds eleven ounces when he
was born. So yeah, sotiny so cute. Um. But we
had a whole discussion while we werethere about what I wanted to be called.

(12:03):
Yes, we need to get intothat. So Greg is going with
pop up because all of the sternerMen have been pop ups. He's gonna
be pop up Sterner um. Andwe talked about this for quite a while
when we were visiting them, andI have yet to settle on what I
feel like would be an appropriate namefor me. Okay, I will not

(12:24):
be grandma. Okay, so youare. Can we tell you're an audi
our audience about how old you areif you're not comfortable sharing your full age?
Oh, thirty one, I saidit earlier. Well you did say
that's sorry. I had a kid. My daughter just came and she lost
a tooth and had to show me. It's very exciting, very exciting.
Um. So you're thirty one yearsold and your grandma. Um, so

(12:50):
we need something cool and him right. So my daughter, my oldest daughter,
is actually named after my grandmother becauseI called my grandmother Nina. That's
what I called her. Her namewas Maureen m And I don't know if
it was somehow it just kind ofpopped out of my mouth. Um.

(13:11):
So I called her Nina, butshe again I was there's a big age
gap and she was way old,like we're talking way old, and um,
she wanted to be called grandmother.She did not. She didn't very
formal. My grandmother was very Mygrandfather was my d daddy, which is
a Southern thing. Okay, mydad goes by big Daddy, which is

(13:31):
creepy and weird, but that's whenhe goes by. And my mom thought
that she invented momm because she wascrazy. But so I think my mom's
out because you're way too old.You're too young for momm but you're you're
still a mommy, right, Ihave a two year old, So it's

(13:52):
it's it's a interesting situation. SoCharice, do you have any like what
did you call your grandparents? Anddo you know any cool unique ones?
I hate to disappoint, but Ijust called my grandma's grandma. I don't
have a lot to contribute here.Um, I know there's like NaN's nana

(14:16):
that still sounds too like old ladyish. Yeah, my mom is Nana.
Yeah, my boys, Nana isreally like that. Just I just picture
of Nana sitting in a rocking chairknitting Yeah, that's what I picture,
right, I mean, that's whatI picture, and that's what we want
to avoid here. We want somethingcool and hip. So do you have

(14:37):
any options? Have you come upwith any What did you guys discuss?
Yeah, so I've been kind oflike looking around to see what some options
are. I remember seeing this interviewwith Jessica Lang and she is just like
glamorous and fabulous. And when shebecame a grandmother, even at her age,
she did not want to be calledgrandma or nana or anything. Um.

(15:01):
And I believe she goes by gigi. That's what I was going to
suggest. I thought that one waskind of cute. And then um,
I have been calling my own mommuti for years um, which is like
German mom mom or mommy. UM. It's like informal. So I was
like, I don't know, maybeI could be like Ohma, which is

(15:26):
for grandma. So I'm kind oftorn between those two, but I don't
know. I also, I hada neighbor growing up who you know,
how kids say things funny when they'relearning how to talk. Her her grandfather.
They were calling him granddad and thefirst time she tried to say it,
she called him gaggledy, and hewas he was gaggledy from then on

(15:50):
like a teenager. Yeah. Um, so I'm also kind of like I
could pick one of these. Butthen when the baby's name is Grayson,
when he gets old enough to talk, if he like throws something adorable out
there, I might just be like, there we go, that's it.
Yeah, that's really cute. Iwas thinking a play on Gigi. Um

(16:11):
could be Gabby like Grandma Gabby andshort in that, and you could be
Gabby, which you could cute.But my mother's best friend is German,
like from Germany, like she shestill speaks German and her her mother Um
passed away years ago, but Iused to call her Oma like that's what

(16:32):
everybody called her. And I loveOhma. I think it's such a cool
thing and you don't hear it muchin America. Yeah, Um, I
really like Oma. Um. Whatwas the other one I was trying to
think of, I can't. Ihad it and it totally slipped my head
and I can't remember what it was. Yeah, like GiMA, you could
go with or something like just shortenedlike that. But I like Gigi.

(16:56):
Yeah, but I really like ohMy. I think Ohma's cute. I'm
leaving more towards that one. Soyeah, I really like that. Yeah,
and then you can you can stickwith it. Well, Bridget was
trying to get her grandson because shebecame a grandmother really young. Joey was
born when she was in her lateforties, and she um, we're trying
to get him to say oma,and somehow ba came out just ba,

(17:19):
and he called her ba for likethey still do. All the kids call
her ba. They're all in theirtwenties now, they're married, and I
believe the great grandkids call her babanow. But I love you, which
is Slavic for grandma. So thatthat's yeah, which is kind of cute.
Side note, if you ever wantto, um, tease Greg a

(17:41):
little bit, which is always fun. Um. When Jack was young,
he used to call him wide insteadof word yeah, like g w I
D so how to throw that outthere? I know how that got there.
I love it. I know westill say it sometimes. So,
um, your two year old sonis the uncle correct, Uncle Chuck,

(18:07):
Uncle Chuck? Yeah, Uncle Jack. Oh, that is really really cute.
I kind of love that. Ilove that. It's great. Don't
feel bad my dad is actually fouryears older than one of his uncles,
but he grew up in Little Rock, Arkansas, so that's a totally different
stuff. Yeah. There, Mydad came from a big family and I

(18:27):
have cousins who are like seven yearsold, so oh my god. Yeah
yeah, wow, that's even sanity. He was the youngest of seven,
so like when he was born,his oldest siblings were having kids. So
yeah, holy crap. Wow,I thought I had a big age difference.
Holy shit. Yeah. Um,so I just wanted to I need

(18:51):
to get your opinion on something.So you're a mom, abby and suries.
I'm sure you've done this. Everybody'sscreen cleans, right, like we've
all gone through that. Yes,we've been doing that too. So I
have been in the midst of thisand I have two really big issues.
One is COVID, so I wantto know what the role is when I

(19:11):
spring clean. I just want toget rid of everything in the house and
just start over, Like I wouldmuch rather just buy to match and walk
away, But since I can't dothat, I have to get rid of
shit, so I have piles forLike, my friend Megan has a two
year old daughter that's into like frufrugilly girly dresses. So and then I

(19:32):
have stuff for Charlie, for Wags'sdaughter and Brandon. And by the way,
if you want clothes, I haveEnzo stuff. But I'm sure you
give Jack's clothes to Charlie. SoI have that kind of stuff. But
the rest of the stuff, there'slike stuff that like if you my role
is if you haven't worn it ina year, it goes, you haven't
worn it, you haven't played withit, it goes. But it's been

(19:55):
like we've been in quarantine for ayear. Basically, I think my kids
have worn like six different outfits inthe past year, including myself. So
the question is do we do wefollow that rule? What do you guys
think? Do we follow that rolefor COVID or do we call it like
a card right? I don't know. I think it depends. I think

(20:18):
it really depends how much stuff theyhave, like how much they've accumulated stuff.
But I don't know, like ifsee like Jack has Jack only just
recently started going back to school,but he was still like getting on his
calls every day, so like hewas still getting dressed for school. So

(20:44):
I don't know, like how manyhow many outfits do you usually have for
them? Like do you have enoughfor them to wear? Like two weeks
of clothes? Three weeks of clothesmore like? So the girls probably a
month, okay, but they'll likemix in match too, like they'll share
because they're about the same size.And Enzo probably like two weeks of clothes

(21:07):
probably. I would say, anyof the stuff that they haven't worn any
year, throw it in a pileand say you can pick five shirts,
five pans, five dresses or somenumber, like pick your favorite stuff.
That's what you can keep everything elsefor taking the goodwill. I like that
plan. But the problem is,and this is my second question, I

(21:29):
think I'm raising tiny horders and Idon't know what to do about it because
I try to get like they have, especially with toys. And I don't
know if you'll because your son's onlyseven, but he is at that age
and ceris you have nieces, right, yeah, And I used to be
a nanny and I would do alittle bit of cleaning for them, right,

(21:51):
so you understand this, So likethey have they have toys out the
wazoo, right, And and we'retrying to decide if we're gonna move or
if we're gonna stay here, butI just want to get rid of shit,
right so that I pile bags up. And like, they have American
girl dolls, and my mom usedto buy them for my niece and then
they became my daughters. So mykids literally of every fucking American girl doll

(22:15):
that's ever been made up until lastyear. So we keep those because they're
expensive. But like I don't know, like this dollhouse. It's huge dollhouse
that Gigi never plays with. Andthen I'm like, well, let's let's
break it down and give it toCharlie because I think Charlie would really really
love it. And all of asudden, now she's playing with it.

(22:37):
Yeah, no, this is myfavorite toy. Like, no, it's
not you hate that. You don'tdo this anymore. I don't understand why
they do this, Like what isit? And how do we stop it?
I don't know what to do.They're tiny little hoarders. I don't
want to. I'm sure they havesentimental value to the kids, so that
even if they don't currently play withit, it's still like they remember when

(23:00):
they played with it, and ifit was a favorite toy. At one
time, it's still it's gonna bea favorite forever, even if it's not
actively being played with. Look atyou being logical. Well no, but
but Leah, like I feel you. I mean, you've never been over
to our house, but like wedo not have a big house, and

(23:21):
I feel like the toys take overeverything. Yes, because we don't actually
have a playroom, like they playin the living room slash dining room.
And funny enough, our hoarding problemis with Jack. But it's not toys
and it's not clothes. It's cardboardboxes because he's very creative and he likes

(23:41):
to like he'll build forts with them, he'll build mazes with them, he'll
try to build like a little arcadewith them, he'll build robots with them.
So like anytime we get a package, he's like, don't throw the
box away, don't throw the boxaway. But then we have like our
house looks trash because we'll have thistile of like cut up drawn on cardboard

(24:03):
boxes sitting in the corner of thedining room. Eventually it's just like tough
love time. And I'm like,all right, Jack, if you want
to keep them, one can onepick your favorite. But we're throwing the
rest out your favorite boa. Well, at least I know what to get
him for a birthdight. Yeah,I was gonna say, yeah, it's

(24:23):
so funny. He was like thateven as a baby, Like he didn't
want toys. He would just likesit in the boxes and like pretend to
be driving or whatever. Yeah.I love that phase with little babies when
they get them gifts and nobody theydon't care about anything that's in the box.
They just want the goddamn box.It's a great It's so cute.
I love it. That's like myfavorite. Um. All right, so

(24:45):
we actually have a pretty interesting showtoday. We're gonna get a little heavy,
but not super heavy. We're justgonna talk at you for a little
bit. Um. We are goingto talk about the doctor Phil's scandal,
um with Turnabout Ranch and kind ofjust how those I want to get see
what you guys think about these teenrecovery programs for troubled teens. I think

(25:11):
it's an interesting topic to discuss.But before we do that, I saw
this clip from the Sarah Silverman podcast, and I really want to get your
opinions on that. So we're gonnatake a really short break, and we're
gonna come back with more of Momsand Mayhem. Welcome back to Moms and

(25:33):
Mayhem. So we just had avery nice little break there that was fun.
And we were discussing Sarah Silverman becausewe are going to talk about her.
So she has a podcast, butshe also had a show on Hulu.
I don't know if either of youwere familiar with that. Did you
ever watch her show? I didn'twatch it. It was where she would

(25:55):
like go across America and yeah,yeah, it was really good. Sarah
Silberman loves America and it was itwas really good. And really, what's
the word I want to use,I don't not profound, but just very
thought provoking. And she had thesefabulous guests on and you get to see

(26:18):
this. She's a very political personand she's also super liberal. So if
you're on the right, you arenot going to like her because she is
super liberal. And what's interesting isnine times out of time I agree with
her. I always agree with her, and I think I agree with her
on this. But I want toget into the I want to play this

(26:38):
for you because neither of you haveseen this. Correct, No, I
haven't seen it. Okay, soI want to get your initial reactions because
it really did. It jarred mewhen I heard it. So here it
is. So. I have thisfriend who I adore and we text.

(27:02):
He always texts me videos like avideo texts. So we were talking and
he's like, I'm a little high, but he's like, uh, is
there gonna be an you know,there are gonna be a big thing now
where you can't say master bedroom ormaster bathroom, you know, because I
mean, think about it, that'sthat's from slavery, like the master's bedroom.

(27:26):
The math Like, now is theregonna be like a whole thing where
we can't say that. It's justso funny to me. And I sent
him a video back and I go, oh my god, that never occurred
to me. But I will neversay it again. Done. It's not
a big thing. There's no bigdeal about it. I'm done. Done.

(27:48):
I'm gonna call it the main bedroomin the main bathroom. No big
deal. The big deal comes fromthe people who uh, you know,
realize the blatant slave free reference andstill fight it. Just fighting progress.
Oh, I'm not gonna change theway I say that. You know,
that's the big deal. It's nota big deal to go like, oh

(28:11):
fuck yeah, I'm just gonna callit like the big bedroom or the main
bedroom. And of course, youknow, he wrote back and he's like,
oh my god, you're totally right. Then he's just like, I'm
embarrassed, don't talk about this onyour podcast. But I was like,
come on, man, this isthe stuff. This is the stuff,

(28:33):
realizing these things and being changed byit. I just think it's so fucking
cool. It's those relics that areso unnecessary, and it's funny that people
cling to them so hard. It'slike Jimmy's. You know, I don't
know if it's a New England thingor a Boston thing or or regional thing
or maybe it's not. But sprinkles, the chocolate sprinkles. I grew up

(28:56):
calling them Jimmy's, and then Ifound out that that comes from jim Crow
because they're the brown sprinkles. Boomdone their chocolate sprinkles forever. Now,
you know, like that took onesecond. You can't unring that bell,

(29:19):
so that, Um, what doyou guys think before I say anything,
what do you think by that?About that? Um? I think it's
an interesting point. It's not somethingI've ever thought about before. Um,

(29:40):
and I yeah, I didn't realizeit makes sense, but I didn't realize
it was a reference to slavery times. And I think it's always good to
update what we call things the waywe refer to things, because you know,
we grow, we progress, likewe should always be trying to be

(30:03):
better as individuals as a society.So to come to that realization and be
like, you know what, Yeah, let's make a really easy change and
call it the main bedroom. That'san easy quick fix. The only thing
I would say about it is Ithink I think that the people who are

(30:27):
on board with it need to justkind of like sit back and make the
change in their own speech, becauseI think that is the quickest way to
get people to start changing their speechtoo. Whereas when attention is when the
spotlight is put on it and it'slike, hey, here's this thing that's

(30:49):
problematic and everybody needs to change now, when we need to get with the
program, that's when we have thisbacklash where it's like, you're not going
to tell me what I can say, You're not going to tell me what
I can't say, and it alwaysfeels like you're arguing with toddlers when you're
having that conversation like you can't makeme. Yeah, but you're right.

(31:11):
But I think it's an interesting point. I also think that so much of
this conversation around like what proper speechis, what's offensive, what's not offensive,
what's antiquated. In some ways,I think it's an important conversation to
have, But in a lot ofways, I feel like it's a distraction

(31:33):
from doing things that will make likereal positive change in people's lives. And
sometimes I feel like it flames tensionseven more because people need to fall on
one side of the aisle or theother about these issues. So I have
mixed feelings about it. But it'sinteresting and I've never thought about it before.
Yeah, I agree with you somuch. A juris what do you

(31:56):
think? I'm very curious to seewhat you think because you are big on
the correct way to say things,right I am. Yeah, it's interesting.
I actually knew that about your masterbedrooms. Yes, and this is
another White Horse Show tie in.So Leaders by Design just did an interview
with Monica Kramer, who is aShe's a they. I'm sorry I misgendered

(32:22):
them. They are a real estateagent in Philadelphia, and they did a
Q and A on their Instagram story. They always call the master bedroom the
primary bedroom, primary bathroom, primary, Yeah, and do it And someone
asked them like, hey, whydo you not call it the master And

(32:44):
they said, I found out that, you know, this reference is slavery,
and I just chose to change itin my real estate verbiage. And
I'm right, there is such abeautiful way to handle it too, Like
I'm going to integrate it into myspeech and then if someone asks, I
will give explanation. I think,ye, handled yeah, And I think

(33:06):
I agree with you, Abby.I think it is just self accountability.
I mean, I've learned a lotof things that either are racial pejoratives or
you know, are just really datedterms that I didn't realize we're rooted in
racism until someone told me. AndI think all it needs to be is
like, oh my god, Ididn't know that. Thank you for telling

(33:28):
me and then correcting it. LikeI think it's it doesn't have to be
this big thing. But I dothink that those changes are also important because
offending someone out of ignorance is onething, but offending someone because you just
want to be a stick in theMud and not change your ways. Yeah,

(33:50):
it's something else entirely. Yeah,absolutely, so I agree with both
of you. When I watched this, I was floored by it because to
me, it was like, howhave I gone thirty nine years without putting,
without antiquating master bedroom to the masterslave relationship? Like? How have

(34:10):
I not? We just don't know. It's these colloquialisms are so woven into
our speech that we don't know exactly, And it's just something that I think.
And I had talked to Jeff aboutit, and because I said,
do you mind if I put thison the tea page? And he was
like, you know, I nevernever thought about that. But he's like,

(34:31):
there's no I'll bet you most blackand brown people aren't even aware of
that everyday use of it, Likethey're probably not like, oh, yeah,
that makes sense, that's where thatcame from. And the Jimmy's thing
actually really floored me because I wasalmost like when when she said that,

(34:58):
I looked it up because we've actuallyhad the discussion on this show several times.
Are they Jimmy's or are they theySprinkles? And I said sprinkles?
And I think Robin says I thinkit was hard or that insist that it's
Jimmy's and now like, I willnever ever my kids say Jimmy's because my

(35:20):
husband grew up in Illinois and herefers to the chocolate ones as Jimmy's.
And I think it's interesting that onlythe chocolate ones are Jimmy's. Right.
Yeah, So I was like,wait, is that true? And sure
enough I looked it up and thanksto the good old Google machine, it
absolutely is true. And I willI corrected my kids before they even brought

(35:44):
it up. That's something I don'twant them to learn. Now. The
master bedroom thing, I really wantto figure out a way to not use
it, but it's such a commonterm that it's going to be hard to
break. But I would definitely,like you said, if I were in
real estate or anything like that,I would definitely want to do that.

(36:07):
And what a great way that theirguests said that and introduce it to other
people. She didn't say this isthe primary bedroom in the primary bathroom because
and we don't use master bath masterbecause x y Z. She waited until
someone asked, And I think thatis the way it should be. And

(36:30):
I also think you're right that likeshe said, like how Sarah says,
it's not a big thing. Done, it's over. I'm not using it
anymore. That's so easy, it'sso easily done. But the problem is
so many people say done, I'mnot using it anymore, and neither can
you, or you or you oryou, And that's when it becomes this

(36:52):
big fight, right, And Ithink sometimes subtlety is the easiest way to
fix to fix something. In myopinion, I just think it's good.
Well, while we're on this topic, I actually I'm one of these millennials
that has fallen down the TikTok wormhole. But I actually found this really beautiful

(37:16):
video and I'm never going to beable to find it again because it was
just in like the scroll section.But it was this girl. She looked
like she was probably gen Z AndI didn't see the original video, but
based on the context, it soundedlike she put up a video about how
horrible it is to pierce baby's ears, and just for context, she's a

(37:39):
young white girl, okay, Andher perspective on it, based on her
background, was that white parents whoget their children's ears pierced are doing it
to gender them at a young age. To make them look more feminine,
more girly, and she was saying, you know, like people who do

(38:01):
that are bad parents. They shouldn'tbe allowed to do that. You should
wait for your kid to be oldenough to decide. And she got all
kinds of backlash in the comment sectionfrom people from black and brown communities.
We're getting ears pierced is like adeep cultural thing. And I don't know

(38:23):
what the comments were. I havea feeling some of them were probably really
nasty. I think some of themwere maybe just more educational. But she
put up an apology video and shewas very emotional when she was apologizing to
everyone, and she was just like, I'm sorry for being ignorant, Like
everything I said was from my ownperspective. You know, I come from

(38:45):
a predominantly white community. This isjust my experience from how I grew up.
And like you guys opened my eyesand I apologize for the things I
said and my point of view hasbeen completely changed on this topic. And
it was just no this girl,I mean, I swear she was probably
like eighteen, nineteen, twenty yearsold, and it was one of the

(39:07):
most mature responses to that type ofcriticism. I think I've ever seen,
and it was just owning your mistake, learning from your mistake, and not
getting super defensive. Yes, well, so I'm so about accountability over cancel
culture or cancel culture is toxic accountabilityall the way. Yeah, I could

(39:29):
not agree with you more. Ithink cancel culture is probably one of the
worst things to come out of socialmedia. I think it is intense.
I think that it is I don'teven know what to use, and I
think it does not give people achance to own their mistake and to learn

(39:51):
to fix it. You're immediately canceledif you continue to do what you did.
You know, on Tea, wewe had a very small way of
not cancel culture, but we wereattacked when a former producer said fucking tranny,

(40:14):
and she didn't mean it in asense of at the time, it
wasn't meant to be. It wasmore like in the situation. I believe
Jeff has removed it. I don't. I think it's just not in the
show anymore. And that was kindof our way of dealing with it.
We just pulled it. But recentlywhen we did the transgender episode, Jeff

(40:38):
did that beautiful interview on the everEvolving Truth with the mother of a transgender
child, and Charisse pointed out tous that we actually use the wrong word.
We said transgendered, and that's wrong. Is that right, Tres,
It's not. You don't the eriD is not it? Is that right?

(41:00):
That's my understanding, yes, becausetransgender is an adjective. Okay,
so transgender man, transgender woman,woman, transgender person not transgendered and that's
just based. I mean I justrecently learned that as well. Right,
But what we did is we wentin and we fixed it, and we
did discuss do we talk about iton the show or do we just change

(41:23):
it in the post? And wejust changed it in the post, because
again, it's simple. It's verysimple to fix your mistake and move on.
We could have gone on teet andmade a big deal about it and
said we apologize for using the wordtransgendered, and but nobody else had reached

(41:43):
out and said, you made thismistake. We're grateful for it being brought
to our attention. But there area lot of people that would, I
think, use that moment to grandstandabout it. Look at me and how
great I am, because I'm correctly, mister, I am so woke.
Yeah, that's what I like somuch about this clip that you just shared

(42:06):
with Sarah Silverman. She there's noneof this we all should do this or
you should do this like that we'remaking this change. She's just like,
I learned this thing and I'm goingto change right Like it's on you,
It's on the individual. Because thetruth of the matter is people who are
so like have, especially older peoplewho you know, their culture is so

(42:28):
ingrained in them, their language isso ingrained in them. Unless they really
want to change, they're not goingto. And I think trying to force
people to change is futile and you'llget more backlash than anything else. And
I think it's just individual responsibility totry to change in a way that you
know, makes society better as awhole, better for everyone. And eventually,

(42:50):
if enough people take that responsibility onthemselves, society will change, it
will become the norm. And Ithink that's the way to do it.
I couldn't agree with you more.And I think that was perfectly said.
Thank you, you're welcome, You'rewelcome, thank you, thank you for
saying it, thank you for makingour show sound a little more intelligent.

(43:13):
And on that note. We aregoing to take a break and we're going
to come back and we're going totalk about Doctor Phil and him being nikky.
We'll be right back. Welcome backto Mom's and Mayhem. So I
am a YouTube nerd, like Ilove YouTube, and I follow YouTube and

(43:35):
I get my news from YouTube.I know, I know, yell at
me for it, but I discoveredSo I am not a Doctor Phil fan.
Let's start here. Or do eitherof you watch Doctor Phil? And
are you fans of Doctor Phil.I am familiar with Doctor Phil. I've
seen episodes of his show. Iam not a fan. Okay, Okay,

(44:00):
all did her? Okay, SoI did go through her phase of
being a young stay at home momwhere I watched Doctor Phil like religiously at
four o'clock, And it was aboutfive years ago, like I would stop
with when my kids were newborns.For some reason, I watched Doctor Phil.

(44:20):
I don't know why. It wasa thing. I don't know why.
So Enzo was a baby and Iremember actually watching this episode where they
brought on this this teenage girl andit was Danielle Burgoli aka the catch Me
Outside. How about that girl?Everybody's familiar with the catch Me Outside girl,

(44:42):
And she was a hot mess atthirteen and I don't know that she
still is now. I started.I think it's an act. But she
got pretty famous for the catch MeOutside. How about that thing? I
think she ended up with a makeupline. Yeah, she's a makeup line.
She's now a rapper, she hasshe has her own YouTube channel which

(45:05):
is pretty successful, and she justturned eighteen and um right, so totally
famous from being like that just showsyou American society right there, by the
way, folks like just pay attentionto that. This girl went on doctor
Phil for being just an out ofcontrol teenager and said catch me outside to
a grown man. And now she'sfamous, so we dream. Yeah,

(45:30):
right, that is truly the Americandream. So doctor Phil sent her to
this place called the turn About Ranch, which is a place that he sends
a lot of his patients another patientor patience. Let let me let me
redo that they're not patience because theman is not a doctor. Everybody needs

(45:52):
to know this. He has aBS in psychology, he maybe has a
master's. He does not even havea doctorate. Well, then how is
he allowed to call himself doctor Phil? Well, because Oprah called him doctor
Phil. So now it is allOprah's fault. Oprah's made some mistakes in

(46:12):
her life. One of them isdoctor Phil um So. And this is
a guy that maybe at some pointin the early oper days actually cared about
people and their psyches and getting themhelp. And his show has turned into
a boogie version of the Jerry Springershow. That's all the doctor, that's

(46:35):
all. That's all exploitation. Yeah, yeah, complete exploitation. And he
does, um get people some help. So like he recently had Marjaron a
couple, I think it was liketwo years ago, but again complete exploitation.
Um Another um the guy who playedXander Harris on Buffy the Vampire Slayer,

(46:59):
who's Nicholas Brendan m huge alcoholic.He was on the show drunk.
It was it was embarrassing, itwas hard to watch. So he's gotten
to the point where he does stufflike that. There are reports of people
claiming that doctor Phil would actually getthem drunken high before Oh my god,
not him himself, like he's notin there like way, let's do shots

(47:22):
at the kiel up, but likehe like encouraging the guests. Yeah.
Well, there was actually an episodeof one. I can't remember that I
had seen when I used to watchit, where this heroin addict, like
the producer went out in LA andgot heroin for this heroin addict because they
were sick and couldn't get onto theshow. No, it's because you want

(47:44):
No. Yeah, and they evenshowed it, like they showed it to
him them doing it, and theyclaimed it was because the person was so
sick and they weren't going to dothe show and they wanted to get him
help. No, if you wantedto get him help, he would have
sent him right to rehab and youwork about the show. Yeah, you
would have done like, screw theratings. This person needs serious help right
now, right, but let's getyou high first. Yeah, exactly.

(48:05):
It's just fucking ridiculous. The wholething is dumb. But these parents,
I think there are a lot ofpeople who really think that their child is
you know, needs some sort ofhelp, and for some reason they're they
look at this guy on TV andthey think that he's their savior, and
it's it's got to be in thebaldhead and the southern accent and the things

(48:30):
that he says, like this ain'tmy first time putting pancake on a potato
and calling it pink, Like,what the fuck are like? Seriously,
have no idea what that means.It's not a saying stop it. God
my hands stand him anyway. Sohe does send people to this turnabout ranch

(48:53):
and what the turnabout ranches is awilderness camp for teenagers where they go and
they basically are just taken away fromeverything. And when you hear about it,
you you hear. Of course,Doctor Phil talks about all these therapists
that are there and they're so helpfuland blah blah blah. But there are

(49:17):
stories coming out, and there's alawsuit currently from a girl that was on
the Doctor Phil show, girl namedHannah, who is suing them because she
was sexually assaulted while she was thereby a staff member. And I understand
that not everyone does everything for theright reasons, right, so that could

(49:40):
be a one bad apple thing,But there are so many stories about this
and this Danielle catch me outside Burgoliegirl came out on her YouTube channel and
she told stories about it. Iwas appalled by the things that she said.
I did share the video with youeyes, and I think to keep

(50:01):
this a little shorter. I mayadd the video after in editing, or
I'll put it on our Facebook pagefor everyone to watch. But I wanted
to get your opinions on that beforewe go any further. If you watched
it. So did you both geta chance to watch it? I saw
the clip of Gloria alread. Okay, you saw that with the Hannah girl.

(50:23):
Okay, So what did you thinkabout that? What did you think
about the accusations against this this campwith Gloria all Read, as far as
whether they seemed legitimate or not?Yeah, yeah, I mean I have
no reason to disbelieve the girl Hannah. So I think I think there absolutely

(50:47):
should be an investigation into it.And you know, if it comes to
light that there is truth to itand there were multiple victims, I think
it should be shut down immediately.And I think Phil, not doctor Phil,
I think he should be held accountablein some way, even if it

(51:08):
was not you know, his directactions that led to the assault of these
girls. But you know, ifhe's putting his stamp on it, his
brand, he absolutely has some culpabilityin it. I could not agree with
you more. What do you think, Shereese? Yeah, I agree,
it's hard because right now, allit is is like a they said versus

(51:34):
she said thing, right, Andthat's what's hard. So you want to
believe both parties. You want togive everybody the benefit of the doubt,
but obviously someone is not being completelytruthful. And I agree there should be
an investigation because even a claim ofyou know this type deserves to be completely
dissected and looked into because if stufflike that really is happening at a rehab

(52:04):
center for lack of a better term, um where people are going to get
help than they're being taken advantage of, and that needs to be that needs
to be fixed. I felt good. I was just gonna say, at
the bare minimum, while they're investigating, it should be shut down. I
agree, there's there's no reason tobe sending other vulnerable teens, young young

(52:27):
people into a situation that you knowcould be potentially dangerous for them. That's
the part that gets me. Soyou're any kind of rehab or recovery center,
whether it's for mental health or fordrugs or whatever, it is,
even a physical rehab center, whichI lived in for a while, you

(52:50):
are at your most vulnerable, whetheryou're physically vulnerable emotionally, So anyone going
in there as even a dull,right, I think it should be held
to a higher standard because you aregiving giving up everything. Being there,
you're putting your faith in your trust. But when it comes to teenagers and

(53:12):
children, you as a parent,you are I would think any parent that
has reached the point where they aresending their kid to a camp that can
last anywhere between ninety days to ninemonths to a year, and you have
no idea if it's going to besix weeks, if it's going to be

(53:35):
whatever. That clearly there's something you'reat the end of your tether, right,
I don't think most parents, Andit's expensive if you're going to send
it, send them on your ownpersonally, So clearly you have to have

(53:58):
you're you're sending these kids that arealready troubled into a situation where they have
no control. So this Danielle girlwas talking about how they have to give
up when you first get there,and there's actually other YouTube videos from different
points in time where other people aretalking about turnabout ranch that have been there
and when you get there, forthe first three days, these kids have

(54:21):
to sit in a TP, justa TP. You are not giving a
pillow or a blanket. You're notallowed to lay down. You have to
sit up the whole time, andyou have to write about why you're there
and what's bad. So basically they'rejust breaking you down. But if it's
raining, does not matter. Andthen after the three days, if you

(54:44):
pass, if you listen to them, like Danielle talks about how she was
falling asleep, and they would likeclap their hands and be like, get
up, get up. You can'tlay down, you can't lay down.
Start writing, start rating for threedays, for three days, and then
they put them in. Yeah,I guess they were allowed to sleep for
certain hours, like at night,but if like you, they wake them

(55:06):
up at like five o'clock in themorning. So if you're and you're just
sitting, you're not doing anything.You're not standing, you're not walking,
you're not doing it. You're sittingin this tepee. They were brought like
balogney sandwiches and that was it forbreakfast, lunch, and dinner in these
tepees. And the one thing thatthen you move up to another tier.
Okay, after those three days,that's like a cabin. But they're given

(55:30):
a blanket and a pillow, yousleep on the hard ground. They take
away not only did they take awaycreature comforts, right, but they also
take away like shelter, they takeaway good food, they take away warmth,
they take away being dry. Thisis to me, that's that's abusive.

(55:52):
And I don't these parents did notknow these things sending their kids in
there, but doctor Phil did.And then there's like another tier where and
they're assigned work and then you know, eventually you get you get a horse,
and look, I haven't been there. I haven't been in there.
I don't know what's true and what'snot. But when you know there's so

(56:15):
many stories together, it's one ofthose you know, if it walks like
a duck situations, right, AndI'm sure some some counselors are worse than
others, and and I'm sure there'sworse situations. But they're demanding an apology
from doctor Phil and and a littlebit of accountability. Come out and say

(56:35):
something right about this. And hisresponse was, I don't know what happens
to my guests after they leave you. Why then, why is he approving
the camp? Why is he sayingthis is approved by me? I'm saying
I'm saying, it's okay for youto send your kids here, and this
is gonna get them in shape.I agree with I couldn't agree with you

(56:57):
more like he's not only approving it, like this is a guy. He
raves about it, and you're sayingit's going to work and it's going to
fix your kid. While Danielle Burgoaliewas there and so, what what do
you want? What do you want? I don't know, close the door,

(57:30):
sorry, and so I mean itall right coming back in three two
one. So while Danielle was there, there was a, um, I
guess a kid tried to run away. And the one big thing about this
camp is they kind of can't runaway. That all the kids that have

(57:52):
talked about it openly have said there'snowhere to run. It's it's a wilderness.
I was gonna say, I knowexactly where this is, okay,
so go ahead, Southern Utah.Yeah, I know exactly where this is.
So I've never actually been to thisranch, but I know where Escalante
is, and it is in themiddle of absolute nowhere. And it is
When I say desert, I meanlike literally like sand, no trees,

(58:19):
no shade, very harsh conditions,very dry, um like, this isn't
somewhere the is fun, I wouldthink. So that's that's great that you
said that, because a couple ofthe kids that have said that were like,
like Danielle Burgoli even says in thevideo when I got there, you
know, I looked around to runand the first thing they say is like,

(58:40):
just don't even try it. Yeah, that is that is what it's
like out there, like I willhave the barren wasteland. Oh Jesus good
like. And that's another whole otheraspect of it that I mean, Abby,
you're a mom, like and yourkids are little, but you have

(59:02):
step children that are older and youwent through Yeah. So actually I have
very mixed feelings about this because there'sa big part of me that says,
kids who get to the point wheretheir parents are sending or considering sending them

(59:22):
away to a tough love camp likethis, those kids are totally out of
control and it's beyond anything the parentsare going to be able to remedy themselves.
But with like kids, kids witha very few exceptions, end up
like that just because usually they comefrom a background of trauma, abuse,

(59:47):
dysfunction of some variety, and it'syou know, I think it's a combination
of nature and nurture and you getthese kids who end up being totally out
of control. And I don't know, I think this probably works for some
people, but I don't think thatlike just the whole tough love, we're

(01:00:13):
going to break you and whip youinto shape, works for everyone. And
I don't think it necessarily addresses likethe core issues that some of these kids
might be dealing with that are likethe reason that they're acting out. So,
for instance, I'm not going touse any names, but one of
Greg's kids from his previous marriage wasone of these kids who was totally out

(01:00:36):
of control. And you know,he came from a broken home. His
dad was not in the picture.The father figure who was there for a
brief time, beat him to thepoint that he had to go to the
hospital at two years old, andthen on top of that, he had

(01:00:58):
his own angerish there was other dysfunctionthat happened throughout his adolescence, and I
think it was that perfect mix ofnature and nurture that led him to be
totally out of control to the pointwhere like he was violent with his other
siblings, he was, you know, in trouble with the cops often.

(01:01:22):
You know, he'd shoved his mother, he'd get in physical altercations with other
kids, he got involved in somedrug stuff. He had someone pull a
gun on him at one point becausehe got in trouble with the wrong group
of people. So you hear aboutstuff like that. And what ended up
finally clicking for him was he gotkicked out of the house when he was

(01:01:46):
eighteen because neither one of his parentscould deal with him anymore. He was
living on the streets in Philly,homeless, and at some point it just
clicked that, like he like,this is not working. I don't want
this to be my life. Andas a young adult, he made the
decision to join job Corps. Idon't know if you're familiar with that or

(01:02:07):
not. I am yet. Sohe joined job Corps on a track to
get some kind of medical license,nursing or otherwise and join the military.
And for him, the structure anddiscipline of the military was the thing that
he needed to keep his life together, to give him like that structure and

(01:02:27):
balance and focus. And you know, especially with the whole rank system in
the military, you're able to moveup and it's little achievements so you can
like set goals for yourself and likethat was what he needed. But he
made that decision himself. So Idon't know. I don't know if these
kids who have like these defiance issuesare best served to be shoved into this

(01:02:52):
situation against their will when they're,like I would bet ninety nine times out
of a hunt. There's some kindof significant trauma that's happened that has been
unaddressed, absolutely, and you know, they clearly have problems with authority already,
so they're getting thrown into this situationwhere they like have the hammer coming
down on them. And I thinkthat it probably works for some of them,

(01:03:15):
but I also think it's probably veryvery wrong and counterproductive for others.
I couldn't agree more. Yeah,No, I was going to say the
same thing, and I mean bymost people, I shouldn't. I was
gonna say, by most people's standards, I don't think I was an out

(01:03:36):
of control teenager, but there weretimes that I was definitely treated like I
was an out of control teenager.Yeah, very different. No disrespect to
my parents because they're wonderful people.I mean not sincerely, I'm not bullshitting
you, and everybody just does thebest that they can with the skills and
tools that they have in terms ofparenting. And I understand that, but

(01:04:00):
counseling and therapy were used as likethreats for me when I was growing up.
So it was like, if youdon't calm down, if you don't
stop it, I'm going to takeyou to therapy. I'm going to take
you to see a counselor type ofa thing. And it was like always
like this like threatening, like fearbased thing. And so that's kind of
what this that's what this kind ofreminds me of, is just like I

(01:04:21):
will like ship you off if youdo not calm down. And I'm not
a parent. I'm not going tosit here and say that these parents are
bad parents or that they've done somethingwrong. That is absolutely not my place.
But I just wonder, like woulda maybe a better dynamic be like

(01:04:42):
some group therapy where the parents andthe child, like you know, have
group sessions to kind of work throughsome of these issues together. I just
wonder if that would be like moreeffective than like I'm shipping you off,
I can't handle you anymore kind ofa thing, you know, what I
mean. I think some of theparents probably are not great parents. I

(01:05:02):
would just want to go there.Yep, yeah, I think I think
a lot of times it's not It'snot just like the parents just don't care
and don't want to be good parents. It's all about like developing these skill
sets where like if the parent comesfrom a bad home life and they don't
like they were never given the toolsto see like this is what good parenting

(01:05:25):
is, and now here they arefinding themselves as parents. It's a cycle.
So this this goes back to whatI was saying, where it's like
just throwing them into this tough lovecamp situation. Maybe it works for some
people, but like we're putting aband aid on a bullet wound. At
this point, it's like, arewe really addressing the problems that led us

(01:05:47):
to this point? The parents aren'tinvolved anymore, right, I feel like
that's a problem. So then whenthey come back home and the parents haven't
been involved in this process, theparent is still the same person. Like
did the parent get to go toparenting classes they learned how to talk to
and deal with their child? Likehow much is this really helping long term?

(01:06:10):
Once you're back in the real worldexactly. Well, I think that's
a big problem with rehabs in general, because you take somebody out of their
element and you put them someplace forthirty days, and then you ship them
back to that element and nothing haschanged in the world around them. You've

(01:06:32):
taught them some coping skills on howto handle that, but in the real
world, and yeah, not inthe real world, and you didn't get
to the root of the problem.And I think that's what's happening with Like,
so that Danielle Burgolie girl when shecame back on Doctor Phil, she

(01:06:56):
came on basically to brag about thefact that she was famous, and um
it kind of was awesome and Ikind of love her. I don't want
my girls watching Bad Baby, butI am okay with me watching it.
Um. So, she they talkedabout that and how the mother didn't go

(01:07:16):
to counseling and didn't do anything,and she was like, I came home
and it was right back to She'slike, she came home and she was
right back to the way she was. Well, nothing changed about your dynamic.
And I think that's again where DoctorPhil needs to step up and be
like I'm at balled here, youknow what I mean, like so many
he throws. And the other thingyou have to keep in mind is all

(01:07:39):
of these things are for profit.Remember that they are for profit, and
there was a huge problem which wetalked about it Auntie. The for profit
prison system is bad, but thefor profit rehabilitation system is a nightmare.
And they will do things and makepromises to these parents that they can't they

(01:08:05):
can't fulfill. And because it's notthere's not really any What's interesting is Paris
Hilton, who everybody's familiar with UM, apparently was sent to one of these
UM which I just learned UM whenshe was sixteen, so that would be
she's my age, I believe,so the early UM late nineties, early

(01:08:29):
two thousands, and UM she inUtah. She was in Utah and she
actually went in front of UM,the Senate, in front of the House
and the Senate to UM get lawspassed. And thanks to her, there
are much stricter laws and UM muchmore government oversight in these children rehabilitation wilderness

(01:08:56):
programs in Utah because of apparently abig reason why they're in Utah is because
the laws are very blacks there.They can get away with things that they
can't get away with in other places, like abuse, like neglect, So
and I and and you said Cerisethat you didn't want to like trash a

(01:09:19):
parent, and I don't either.I'm very against mom shaming. I think
it's icky. I think it's horrible. I think you don't know what you're
gonna do until you're in that situation. And I firmly believe that even if
these parents are quote unquote bad parents, if you're sending your kid away,

(01:09:40):
you're at the end of your rope. Like I agree, you may not
have the tools to to figure outhow to fix it at home, but
at least these parents are trying.And I think what's horrible is that someone
like doctor Phil is taking advantage ofthese desperate families and these desk rip situations.

(01:10:01):
And as much as we discussed earlierthat we are against cancel culture um
canceled doctor Phil, we've come orlet's hold him accountable. He should be
held accountable for these teams that arecoming out of there, and if and

(01:10:23):
if anyone on his show was abusedwhile there because he sent them there and
because he made promises to their parents, he should be held accountable for that
too, in yeah, I agree, and I get. I mean,
I don't want to play Devil's advocatebecause I don't like playing Devil's advocate.

(01:10:43):
I get what he's saying, wherelike he can't control what happens to his
guests after they leave, but atthe same time, like, this is
the program that you recommended. Andeven if he were to say something like,
you know, I endorse this programbecause I thought that it did the
results that everyone wanted. I trustedthem and I'm waiting on the investigation here.

(01:11:04):
More like something like that I thinkwould have been a little bit more
appropriate than just like, well it'sout of my hands, like yeah,
yeah, I'm there must be atype of person that has just never apologized
for anything in their life, becauseI feel like, yeah, but I'm

(01:11:27):
perfect. But seriously, it's likeI know that when I have been in
the wrong, there is nothing morefreeing than apologizing for it and taking ownership.
And it also just like completely disarmsthe other person, like they're not
coming for you anymore. You're saying, you know what, you're right,
I own that right, and it'slike, oh, okay, defense dress,

(01:11:51):
Yeah that's all I wanted to hear, and these people who like dig
their heels in and refuse to acceptany kind of responsibility. It's like,
just do it. You'll be happier. The people who are mad at you
will be happier, and we won'tbe having a whole debate about how much
you suck on MAM's. But thatwas that was that was perfect. Um.

(01:12:13):
I think we're going to take abreak there because there's nothing else to
say, and we will be rightback with our ending segments. Welcome back
to Mom's and Mayhem. We gaveyou a pretty so we had a light
intro, then we had a superheavy middle. Now we're gonna come back
with a little bit more lightness withour very fun ending segments. And this

(01:12:39):
week it would be Wags's turn forthese segments. She came up with,
it's the law. She can behere with us today. We missed you,

(01:13:00):
by the way, webs they missyou deeply. We do be right,
come back. We miss you.She sent me a law, a
crazy law this week and the laws. Schools in England and beyond are starting
to forbid students to have best friendsright. Some parents, teachers and psychologists

(01:13:29):
claim that kids grow up more welladjusted if they have bigger friend groups.
Besides, nobody feels left out.Critics argue that best friends bring lifelong value.
A study by Child Development found thatthose with best friends have better mental
health throughout their lives. So apparentlyin England they are canceling best friends.

(01:13:56):
That's so, I actually this isinteresting. First of all, how do
you even enforce that? It seemslike a silly thing to even try to
enforce, right, But I don'tknow. On top of that, so,
Greg and I were having an interestingconversation the other day which stemmed from
talking about how things have changed becauseof COVID and how neither one of us
has seen hardly any of our friendsin like over a year at this point,

(01:14:21):
and he and I were both saying, you know, with the exception,
I have two childhood friends who I'mstill pretty close with, who I've
known since I was like three andfive, and he has one friend who
he has known since around the sameage. But other than that, we
said that, like, you know, you have your friends when you're in

(01:14:41):
school, you have your friends,when you're in college, you have your
work friends. But over time,it's like once you stop having that connection,
the thing that has brought you guystogether. You might keep the connection
going for a while, but eventuallyit kind of fizzles out and you meet
new people along the way as youstart new chapters. So well, I
think it's absolutely ridiculous to say,like you can't have a best friend.

(01:15:06):
I think it's also a good thingto like encourage kids to brand out and
like be friends with as many diversepeople as possible. You know, I
agree with that. I think thatis smart. You should have a bigger
group. But then the problem withthat is, like girls can be like
mean and horrible and caddy. Yes, so I was very blessed in like

(01:15:29):
middle to high school to have acore group of friends. There was myself,
my friend Helena, who has shewas a guest on this show.
We grew up together, we livedtogether, but our lives diverted when I
got married. I got married andhad two kids, two kids right away
and then a third. And shedid it like she's she's not married,

(01:15:51):
she's still with the same guy,but she doesn't have kids. She never
wanted kids. And it's not thatlike we don't love each other like sister
anymore, but we just have verydifferent lives. And it's really hard to
get together. But when we wereyounger, I was very lucky to have
that core group that it was Helena, myself, Jessica, and another girl

(01:16:14):
Danita, and Katrina who was onteat and she's different. She has become
a crazy Christian. So that wasKatrina. Yes, But when we were
in high school, we used towe were all we would say each other's
best friends, and we really were. There was no um like split up

(01:16:34):
between like it was that one groupand most people say like there would be
just two of them together or likeit was usually like three girls, like
an odd number, and it alwaysturned that like two girls would turn on
one girl. It can get verymean with the best friend thing stuff.
Yeah, so I can see Iwas very blessed to not have that in

(01:16:57):
high school. But I can seethat happening. I could see it getting
so I see where England's coming from. But I still think it's stupid because
how do you, like, whatdo you do walk up to like a
ten year old and say you twocan't be best friends. You're coming out
too much. That law, that'sweird. Sharie's thoughts. Do you have
thoughts on the best friend law?Is England stupid? I don't know.

(01:17:20):
First Brexit, now this right,what are they gonna do next? Oh?
God? And megsit mexit. Don'tforget about megit, That's what it
is. Yeah, that's what itis. They just don't want They thought
that Harry and Megan were getting tooclose, and that's what they said,
no more, best friends, can'tdo that anymore. All right, moving

(01:17:43):
right along, here we have Sharisipoo popping in for our why would you
say that segment? Yes, ohmy goodness. So, first of all,
the reason I thought of this oneis because I'm from the West um,

(01:18:08):
and my boyfriend is Pennsylvania homegrown,and we say this phrase totally differently,
and we um we banter about itall the time. So I'm excited
me too. So I say,like, let's park kitty corner, and
he says, let's park catty quattycorner. It's catty corner. It is

(01:18:29):
catty corner. It's totally I thinkkitty corner. Like the first time I
heard someone say catty corner, Iwas like, what what? Well,
So we have been we have beeneducated about the master bedrooms. We've been
educated about the Jimmy's I think duringour breaks Therese you told us about the
phrase getting jipped. Yeah, soI'm dying to know where does catty corner

(01:18:50):
come from? Kiddy or kitty dependson part of it. That's not a
pendorative, so you don't. Wedon't have to cancel saying either one fortunate,
okay. And it has absolutely nothingto do with cats nothing. So
the expression meaning diagonally opposite was formedfrom a misspelling in English of the French

(01:19:14):
word cut, which means four prefixedto corner. The word has nothing to
do with cats or kittens. Invarious dialects, all three spellings are acceptable
cattie, catter, or kitty.And the reason why it's called that is

(01:19:34):
the term is used to describe theway the dots are placed on a dice
positioned at number four diagonally from oneanother. Oh, that's really interesting.
Also, whoever says catter corner,whatever part of the country, that's that's
that? You're really wrong? Yeah? Can we all agree that? Like

(01:19:54):
that? So I think doesn't getto be a best friend. I guess
patty corner technically is more correct becausecat is the French word for four.
If I'm pronouncing it right, butI love it, So now we have
to use it in a sentence.Um, you can go firstreathe because I

(01:20:15):
don't know. I'm I'm in astumble on this one. Oh um.
I'm very glad that I don't liveCatty corner from Turnabout Ranch. Oh that's
good, one, good, Okay, I have one. My favorite apartment
when I was living in Philly wascatty corner to a bulk candy store,

(01:20:40):
you know where you get You wouldgo in and get the bag and take
scoops of whatever you want it.Oh my gosh. That was like I
was always torn between do I goto the bar tonight or do I go
and get a bag of jelly belly, jelly beans jelly belly. Marlin,
Well, there definitely were some candystores stops after the bar. I am

(01:21:01):
deavinue I would be doing the samething. Um, okay, So I
I want to tell Kyle that heis correct and it is Cattie Corner and
Teress is wrong. It is notKitty Corner. There. That's my sentence.
Congratulations, Kyle, you win thisbike. Moving on to a better,
more fun and original game, weare going to have Miss Abigail Starner

(01:21:27):
give us a would you rather?This week? So I'm gonna keep it
true to the theme of the showtoday, and I'm gonna have a would
you rather between my two least favoritedaytime talk show hosts. So, would
you rather sit and listen to DoctorPhil put your parenting skills on blast for

(01:21:50):
an entire episode? Or would yourather have Wendy Williams air all your dirty
laundry on her show? Oh mygod, I have an answer and it's
great, And oh my god,I am missing Wags and Robin right out
because they would love my answer.But I'll let you guys go first.

(01:22:13):
Go ahead, Cherie, Do youhave an answer or should I go?
I mean, I don't really wantmy dirty laundry aired, so I probably
would do Doctor Phil just because Ifeel like I could. I could take
how crappy of a creature mom Iam and rebuttle a little bit. Would
you fight back with Doctor Phil?Would you be like, and I do

(01:22:34):
it in a Southern accent just tobe obnoxious? See, yeah, I
would kind of want to know whatputting pancake on a sausage means that I
really want to know what that means. But are euphemism. I don't know.
She said the weirdest things. Youcan't grillly your cheese upside down with
the frying pans. Are you talkingabout it? Just strow stuff out because

(01:23:00):
he's like, I'm Southern. It'scharming. That's exactly what he does,
like my dad's. None of thoseare sayings, just saying, Baddy,
do you have an answer? It'sa hard one for me. That's why
I picked it. But um,I think I would have so much trouble
having somebody like doctor Phil condescend tome that I would so much rather have

(01:23:25):
all my stuff put on blast byWendy Williams one because I think she's trashed,
so I don't really care what heropinion of me is. And to
all, publicity is good publicity,So talk about me. Hope for it?
Why not? Okay? So myanswer is really fun. So,
um, if you're if you're along time listener to Moms and Mayhem,
and if you paid attention to thefirst season of Teeth, um, you

(01:23:49):
know that there are some people thathave tried to make my life miserable over
the past year and a half totwo years. And one of those people,
Um, their goal in life isto be on or become the next
Wendy Williams. They think Wendy Williamsis just the be all end all for

(01:24:09):
some reason. Um so I wouldtotally go on Wendy Williams and let her
just last me all day long andbe like, look at me, bitch,
I'm here. You're not bucking.That's fantastic, And that's my answer.
I love it. I have totell you. I have to tell
you. Before I ever met saidperson, Greg told me this about this

(01:24:32):
person. Really, I was like, that is all I need to know
to know that I don't like thisperson and they're probably complete trash. Oh
my god, happy, I loveyou. I thought the same thing when
said person said said this. Itwas like, really, that's your life
goal. Like I tend to thinkI'm not a super judgy person and I'm

(01:24:56):
pretty open, open minded and empatheticand like will come from different places.
And I heard that and I hadthis a visceral reaction, that line drawn
in the sand. It's like,no, cancel, I'm going to cancel
you. You're canceled, and adiscussion. I don't believe in cancel culture,
but you're canceled. Oh that's fun. And on that note, UM,

(01:25:21):
we are going to move into plugs. Do we have anything to plug?
Seris, do you have anything toplug? Um? Please go listen
to my show. Yeah, yeah, the Potential Ginger. Listen to the
Existential Ginger podcast. UM like uson all the socials, go to white
Horse Media or website the real WHMGdot com. Juris has some really really

(01:25:45):
fun um T shirts in the store. Wag just worked on. UM for
marijuana people, you would really loveit, especially if you're you're a former
religious person. Um, what doesit say? Actually, if you're not
going to leave the church, whatdoes it say? Yeah, if you're
not going to leave the church,at least smoke some weed, which is

(01:26:06):
so on the on the Same SexAttracted Filmmaker episode, we're sitting there and
you know, it's a podcast recording, but it's a video like this,
so we can see each other,and the one filmmaker I can see her.
She's just like rolling a joint whilewe're talking. And I know she
lived in Massachusetts, and I wasn'tgonna say anything, and then she's like,

(01:26:29):
oh, yeah, by the way, I just I just rolled the
joint. And I'm like, ohthat that's fine, You're not a big
deal. And then she said thatnot too much after that, which is
a great quote, and yes,I need shirt. Yeah, I need
that shirt in my life. WAGSis working on some really cool T shirts
for Moms and Mayhem too that don'tjust say They don't just say moms and

(01:26:54):
Mayhem, they say different fun thingslike mother tooker, which right, yeah,
we need those shirts. I feellike you need a hat or something
that just says ikey, I needan icky something. Look, could you
make him mark Avvy something I havepulled out from both Teet and this that

(01:27:17):
is like your go to phraise.When I really don't like something, You're
like, it is just it.Yeah, I love it. Yeah that
if I get a vista or reaction, that's the way I express it.
I say, you're icky. Umand you know, listen to the shows,

(01:27:39):
go the websites, do all thatfun stuff. Um, Abby,
do you have anything you want toplug? Um? I am going to
hold off. Okay, quite abig plug coming in the next three to
four weeks, So stay tuned.Will you come back on the show and
make an announcement here. I willcome back for you ladies, absolutely anytime

(01:28:01):
you want me to say thank youso much. You have been so great,
and I know Amanda and Robin areboth so grateful for you filling in
when they can't. It's it's huge, thank you. It's kind of pleasure,
absolutely great. So in that note, um, I choose violence by
little doves. You get on thedance, let's rawhead dog. Let's have

(01:28:36):
some fun. Hey, you geton the dance fun. Let's live and
laugh to night. Let's have somefun.