Your tubes are tied, you dumb whore.

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:21):
When I'm gonna show you how toshake from bass? What don't you get
about the basketball? Hold you?Stop to body your friends, get up,
chop, let's cut around. Stophappy mammy everyone, thank you for

(00:44):
tuning in to Mom's and Mayhem.I'm Leah Kasari and I am Amanda wagon
Seller, and we are back againfor a little bit. I thought we
were gonna like sync up and belike and we are Moms and Mayhem.
But apparently we haven't. We haven'tmastered that. We're a little bit out

(01:07):
of practice. So I was gonnacome in and be like, he wait,
what was it? How does hedo it? Oh? My god,
it's Moms and Mayhem and it's meLeah. Now I'm here with my
girl Wags, here to fuck yourday up. I mean, actually,
we should just make that ur introlike I'm Leah, I'm Wags. We're

(01:32):
here to fuck your day up.Like God, I think that's a wonderful
intro. And if you make itpast that, sorry you, And yes,
sorry, sorry, we apologize inadvance. Actually we're not sporry,
No, we're not at all.So I'm going to ask you about like
how you've been even though I knowexactly how you've been, because I talked

(01:53):
to you every day of my life, but the audience does not, so
wags, how have you been?Um, I've been shockingly good. Um,
I don't know what shockingly, butI've been very, very, um
well behaved. I officially got uman ADHD diagnosis, which is a blessing.

(02:23):
I would say, right, yeah, I like, don't you fucking
cry bitch, But like, honestly, I feel like so much of my
life makes sense m And I neverfrom once thought that I had ADHD because
like you think about that, youthink about like hyperactive, like I think
about a hyperactive little boy exactly,you know what I mean. Like,

(02:44):
I don't think about someone in herthirties, who, by the way,
by the time this episode comes out, could be thirty four. Like I
can't even think like that. Butthen I'm like, oh no, like
it goes so much deeper than that, and I am I don't know,
like I'm just I'm shocked and relieved, and I'm very excited to kind of

(03:07):
start this journey of figure out howto manage my life with crippling anxiety and
depression PTSD and ADHD. I've gotall the letters of the alphabet. I
figured out a sither so you evenhave LBGTQ. Yeah that still look at

(03:27):
you. Yeah, I've just I'mI'm all the colors of the rainbow.
I'm all the colors of the alphabet. But now it's it's it's interesting and
if I'm going to get all mysoapbox just for a moment. As women,
it is very difficult, in myopinion, at least in my experience,
for medical professionals to take things thatyou say seriously and not base them

(03:52):
on an emotional level. Like yeah, I'm like incredibly cranky and I'm fidgetty
and my mind is always going onehundred miles a minute, but I'm also
like lazy, like I don't havethe energy to do it. And everything
that I've ever had to be likediagnosed with or to manage in my life,
I had a fight for I hadto advocate to get a hysterecto me

(04:15):
despite all the things I had thatsaid yes, you need one. I
had to advocate to get proper diagnosis, to get treated properly for my mental
health issues. And it's always aconstant struggle. And like I joined all
these groups because I'm like I wantto know as much as I can give
me all the coping skills possible,and to hear so many women say that

(04:35):
they're just not believed or they're dismissedbecause well, yeah, you're anxious or
you're upset because you have kids andyour life is hectic and stressful, Well
that's normal. But when your mindis telling you one thing and your body's
saying something different, like how doyou explain that disconnect? So just continue,

(04:57):
Like if you have issues or youthink that there might be something else
going on, don't be ashamed,Like advocate for yourself. And that's mental
that's physical health. Like, don'tallow anyone just because they have a doctorate
or they've gone to school for youknow, extensive number of years, or
they have a bunch of letters aftertheir name, tell you that what you

(05:17):
feel is not valid. There willbe someone that there will be someone that
listens to you. And if youhave to pay a little bit more,
save up and do it, Like, do what you can to advocate for
yourself. And I am I thinkyou noticed, Like I'm just so much
happier that I understand why I thinkthe way that I think now, Like
I understand it and I can workon that, and I don't feel like

(05:41):
I'm not ashamed about it, Likeno, I'm not a twelve year old
boy, you know, like I'mbeing ashamed of at all. I don't
think like I'm a thirty four yearold mom that works and has kids and
does all these other things and Ijust need a little bit extra help.
And it's also fascinating because so muchof my anxiety and depression is based around
the ADHD. Really, like that'swhy a lot of women aren't diagnosed,

(06:05):
because you get like get to geta diagnosis of anxiety or depression is like
you could go to your document like, yeah, I'm really anxious, and
then you have that diagnosis attached toyou. Like it's it's almost like you
know, I have a rash orhives or I'm allergic to you know,
pollen. It's easy enough to getthat, but anything past that. So

(06:26):
it's kind of like learning how towork with what how my mind works and
like find things that are easier forme to cope with having that ADHD.
And my anxiety has been like sominimal that I'm properly being treated and I'm
like, oh my god, likehalf of my life. I could have

(06:47):
done so many more things if Iwould have been able to have the skills
to apply myself. Well. Yeah, and that's the other thing I think,
like I have definite like people inmy immediate family that I know definitely
had ADHD. And I don't eventhink it was a thing in my generation.

(07:08):
I don't know anyone. And Iam apparently a geriatric millennial, which
fuck y'all, I hate this generation. I hate the millennials. You all
suck. Fuck you no stop it. But apparently that's what I am.

(07:28):
And I but most of the people, like my brother and my sister,
they're thirteen years older than me,my cousins, all of them. So
I'm surrounded by people that were,you know, in the previous generation that
our generation X. And even inmy generation though I don't remember anyone being
diagnosed with it. And then mynephew, who was born in nineteen ninety

(07:51):
five, they that's when it reallykind of ramped up. Was like the
early nineties was like, we're goingto start medicating these kids, and we're
going to put them on riddle In. And because it was only riddle In
then, it wasn't Um, what'sthe other medication. There's a ton,
and there's adderall, there's um,there's another one that starts with the sea,

(08:13):
and there's one that starts with tobe. Yeah. I mean they're
just not And even so that bringswomen girls period, we're not diagnosed.
It was thought up to only bein boys. So it's interesting. I
wonder how many women now are beingdiagnosed in their thirties and forties. That's
interesting. Yeah, from what likeI said, like, you know,

(08:35):
I joined some of these groups onFacebook and stuff, and a lot of
them are they are me, youknow, they're they're anywhere from like thirty
to fifty and they're just recently diagnosedand they're like, oh my god,
this is what this is what mylife has been like. But that also
brings it like the medication thing,which we're not going to get into today

(08:58):
because I don't have the energy todo it. But because someone takes a
medication such as adderall, which iswhat I was prescribed and I've been on
it for a month, there's likeall these stigmas attached to it, Like
for example, my insurance required aprior authorization and they would only pay for

(09:18):
the brand name. They wouldn't payfor the generic, they only paid for
the brand name. So I getprescribed this. I want to start it
right away because I know like thedoctor's like psychiatrists are so to star.
Yeah, I'm like, okay,well, you know what, I've dealt
with this for a really long astime. My mental health has been awful.

(09:39):
The antidepressants aren't doing shit for meat this point, clearly because months
prior I was at the end ofmy rope with my life and it was
like, well, you're gonna haveto wait a couple of days. I
work in insurance. I understand theprotocols behind it, but someone that is
so desperate to start something and likeyou can see you know that your life

(10:01):
is going to change the moment thatyou take that medication. So I ended
up not going through my insurance andI got like one of those good RX
prescription and discount cards. Same thing. I had an appointment today with the
psychiatrist of virtual Appointment and she's like, how are you doing? And I
explained, I said, I feellike I'm doing really well. I feel
like my dose needs to be adjusteda little bit, you know, I
was worting an extended release. Ifeel like I need to do something a

(10:24):
little different than that same thing.I have two pills left. By the
time the insurance approves it, i'llbe out. So I almost am forced
to pay cash for it. AndI'm fortunate enough that I can afford that,
and I'm thankful that I can dothat. But like when I called
the pharmacy and I was like,hey, listen, like they're going to
require a prior authorization, I wouldjust like to pay cash for it.

(10:46):
It was like, well, weneed to get approval. I'm like,
you need to get approval for meto pay cash for my prescription. And
they're like, well, we haveyou taking this dosage and I said,
yes, I was taking that dosage. I am now prescribed. The doctor
set a prescription and it wasn't likeI dropped off a bottle or I dropped
off a prescription. The doctor sentit in saying this is what we want
Amanda to take, and it wasalmost like I felt like, I'm not

(11:11):
asking for anything. It's a controlledsubstance. I didn't know that this is
such a fucking problem. The controlledsubstance thing is such a problem. So
I take a medication that is acontrolled substance, and I take it for
pain, but I also take itbecause I wasn't opiated at it, and

(11:31):
it's so I don't use opiates basically, right, the my insurance will only
pay for so many pills in asix month period, which if you do
the math, it's like half ofone yeah, every other day. So
I again am fortunate enough to beable to pay for it out of pocket.
However, without insurance, one monthsupply of the generic is almost six

(11:56):
hundred dollars. Wow. So andit's a controlled substance. They won't if
they up your dosage or lower yourdosage. The pharmacists, their hands are
tied. And again this is awhole This is a cheat episode where we
should really do as you dive intothis because it really is ichy. But

(12:18):
I think it's because of the opiateepidemic. But it's affecting so many people
I know of their mental health becausenow, like any antidepressant is a controlled
substance, they have made everything acontrolled substance. And if you are somebody
within an anxiety disorder and it's severeand you need to take like out of

(12:41):
an you know, twice a dayevery day, and you run out or
you get more these pharmacists their handsare tied because the computers literally won't let
them fill it sometimes. And thenat the other end of it, you're
sitting there like I'm going to havea panic attack because I can't get my
funny fucking medication. Pharmacy doesn't wantto get in trouble for being fucking pilled.

(13:07):
Doctor, Doctor Fields plushers, thankyou doctor feel good works too.
Yeah, it's it is. It'sfrustrating, and I understand, and I
I am the product of an addict, and that is you know, I
always stand by like I have ahard time. I've had three C sections,

(13:31):
I've had a hystorict I've had actuallyhave had a lot of abdominal surgeries.
Now that I think about it,and I try not to take the
prescription pain medication. I've never beenaddicted to it. When I have taken
I've never had any issues stop takingit. But that fear of that genetic
disposition is always in the back ofmy mind. And then when I found

(13:52):
out it was controlled and I'm like, fuck, like okay, really addictive.
Well that's that's the other thing,is I was reading that like people
snort it or they put it inother parts of their body and it's incredible
because like I take this medication andI don't feel high, I don't feel

(14:15):
out of control. I don't feellike i'm you know, incapable of taking
care of my family or anything.I feel calm, I feel motivated,
and I feel really fucking like empoweredwith myself. Like I'm like, Okay,
I knew I could do this,and this medication is helping me that.

(14:35):
And there are people that you knowhave ADHD. They have a prescription
medication, but they take it andthen they get to a point where you
kind of learn how to, youknow, do things without necessarily needing to
have the medication. Like if Iknow I have a busy day at work
or there's a lot going on withthe kids where it may be harder for
me to stay focused, then Iwould take it. But there are going

(14:56):
to be times that I'm not goingto necessary we need it. I'm not
there now, but at some point, you know, at some point I
may be there. But yeah,yeah, this is definitely more of an
episode team, but it's like it'sreally tough to be really like inspired by
yourself, Like I'm doing this,like I'm tired of putting myself to the

(15:18):
side like I'm taking care of myselfand then be met with like, oh,
well, I'm gonna need someone toapprove it. I get it.
But then when I hear about otherstories, especially other women's stories about how
they were like used as like,oh, well, why are you getting
this or why do you take that? Like yeah, I'm I'm sorry,

(15:39):
And I'm like I must be theposter child because I also participated in the
medical marijuana, So why I don'tknow why I said participate and the weeds
and the weeds and the mushrooms.Eventually you're gonna start doing that. I
know you are microducing for ADHD.Is I've just skimmed the surface so that

(16:03):
I'm not ready to be there yetbecause I have too many control issues and
I I'm not at that point.But I have seen plenty of women,
especially again that's where I'm looking at, that have done really well with the
micro docing for specifically ADHD. Andit's such a low dose that it's not
like you're going and you're eating likea handful of shrooms, like you're tripping

(16:26):
your face off. Right, isthat right now? You're not what from
what I've seen and I'm not likeChristie Koy, where are you? Because
we could, I could ask youfor this because she was starting her journey
with that. You take them forlike a couple of days, and they're
typically like in the capsules, youtake them for a couple of days,
and then you go and do yourbusiness. It's like it's like building up

(16:48):
in your system almost so, andI guess it makes you happy if that
kind of what it does, likeI don't want well, I mean where
you're using it for like a medicinalpurpose, So you're using it to like
help kind of being reactive, Yeah, like be reactive to the way that
your brain works. When you haveADHD like there's a there's a disconnect in

(17:10):
there. It's not like an atypicalbrain where you're like, okay, there's
right and left. When you havesomething like adhd um, they call it
neurodivergent. I think it's how it'spronounced. Our wing managed races the back
nodding right. It's similar to likepeople that are on like the autism spectrum
where it's not like a stop andgo. There's like like almost like a

(17:30):
middle ground where it's kind of likea like a roller coaster where like your
brain is kind of like all over, like you still have the right and
the left, but you still there'sa part of it that's like it's just
not connect it, and the medicationhelps connect those So like, yes,
I know I can get up andclean my house. I want to get
up and clean my house. Iwant to get up and play with my
kids. I want to not beanxious or frustrate it and have that visibly

(17:55):
shown. But I just physically can'tdo it. Do it. And now
I'm like I can do it andI'm completely coherent with it. So I'm
gonna start saying your doctor, becauseI have your doctor figure shit out,
or like we talked about the otherday, I'm just gonna sign over my
life to Wags and she, yea, can we discuss that, like so

(18:17):
to be my power of attorney andshe's gonna make all my medical decisions for
me, and I think that's whatI need to happen. I'm just saying
we're starting with medical, but we'regonna go to life, like I'm just
gonna manage your entire life some horribledecisions in my life. You need to
be there to be like no,no, six, good girl, don't

(18:37):
do that. Lee is not allowedout today because she hasn't told my guidelines
here. UM so so yeah,and um before I ask you, I
just want to let the whole worldknow that listens to mom's mahem. I
am a fully vaccinated American citizen.Yeah, and I got sick as hell

(19:00):
after the second dose you did,but it was fucking worth it because I'm
not going to be the reason someoneelse dies, right right. I was
listening to Howard Stern the other daywhile I was trying to like open my
pool, and apparently he was talkingabout somebody that double vaccinated just died in
the hospital of COVID, and Iwas like, fucking a, like,

(19:22):
don't say shit like this, LikeI don't want to know that, Like
I know what can happen, butI don't understand how that. And I
know of Jeff's sister got COVID andshe was fooly vaccinated. I don't know
how that happens. I don't understandwhat she wasn't sick, like she wasn't
at all, but like, Idon't know how that happens. And I

(19:44):
am gonna say right here right now, and I feel so fucking stupid saying
it out loud, but I haveI'm a hypochondriact, which not sure if
anybody cut onto that yet, butI mean totally am first up hearing about
this one. I have this fearthat like what if Alex Jones and the

(20:07):
quan On people of the world areright and I Am going to like somehow
explode when they put their shot inmy arm, Like I am afraid,
and I feel so stupid, LikeI know it's stupid, Like I know
it's a fucking vaccine, like Iget them all the time, but I'm

(20:27):
still really nervous. So but Ihave my first one officially this Saturday,
which is Wags's birthday. But it'smy first one, so I'm not going
to get sick. Well you wellmy birthday's Friday. Well yeah, we're
going out down Saturday, because that'sright. I like, ow dare you
forget my birthday? I'm not goingto be your prey. You know.

(20:48):
I will say that I did holda magnet up to my arm after going
did it? No, I neededto know that for myself. Import thee
did not stick, and I liketried different spots and I'm like, okay,
you know what you're gonna like,yeah, you're we have a microchip.

(21:10):
It's called a cell phone. Okay, yeah, that's your microchip.
Um, so how are you besidesbeing afraid that your coat looks And I'm
afraid I'm gonna just like explode.I'm gonna explode with like COVID or something.
I don't know what's gonna happen tome, but I don't know.
It's so stupid. You're not medicalprofessionals, clearly, Like I had this
spot in my head like, ohmy god, it makes women infertile,
and it's like your tubes are tieddown, horror, Like why does it

(21:34):
matter to you if it makes youinfertile? Like I don't understand why I
allow myself to forget about this ship. Um, but I'm good. Um
it is on the outline. AndI am a little bit depressed that I
have a middle schooler as of theenda next week. So yeah, so

(21:56):
Wags and I both have Aldren enteringsixth grade, which is so I don't
know if everybody's the same. Ithink different districts are they say are different,
But it just so happens that Wagsand I are are school districts that
fifth grade is the end of elementaryschool, so they had today. She

(22:18):
went on a field trip to PerkiomentPines, I believe, and they they
did canoeing, and of course Ninawas in a canoe and fell out of
it three times because she's child,bless her heart, and but like she's
so like I don't know what happened, like all of a sudden with this

(22:40):
fifth grade thing. It's like shejust grew up. But I also want
to know, like how I'm notstill the twenty eight year old girl that
gave birth eleven years ago, LikeI don't know how that happened. Like
it's it's so wild, and likeI don't know our boys the same as

(23:00):
Jake really like, oh, I'mgoing into middle school like kind of puffing
out his chest a little bit ornot at all. Um, Yeah,
but it's more so like like boys, just in my experience with having two
of them, even though one's noteven for yet, but like it's almost
like it's cool to have that,like okay, like yeah, like I'm

(23:23):
gonna be in middle school and everything. I remember being scared shitless because I'm
like I'm gonna be like the lowman in school. Like I and I
don't know, maybe it maybe itis a boy thing to you know,
be gender stereotypical for a moment.Like I don't know, but he's very
he's mature, but he's like he'snot like so I don't know. Like

(23:47):
Nina's like a little like woman.Like she she carries herself as like a
little lady. She speaks like that. Um, we went shopping Wax and
I took them shopping for Nina's birthday, which was in May. We took
him this weekend this past weekend,and Nina's favorite store, thanks to Aunt
Wags, is Forever twenty one.It is her favorite store because the first

(24:11):
time she went there we went waswhen we took all the girls to get
their ears pierced. And they havea lot of really really cute stuff that
like is age appropriate. But likeNina is kind of she's you know,
she's built a certain way. She'ssuper skinny, starting to get boobs.
Actually she has boobs bigger than primeand no hips. Super skinny, she's

(24:36):
you know, that's how I wasbuilt when I was young. But she
wants to wear crop tops all thefucking time. Yeah. I did let
her buy what two of them,I think. But everything though she bought
was like super I was really proudof her. Wasn't this like, um,

(24:57):
hey look at me, like I'mI'm gorgeous. She wore this this
black dress with cherries on it fromthere to school yesterday and she just looks
so grown up, like I waslike, oh my god, like how
did this happen? Luckily, I'mGigi, who has no interest in grown
up whatsoever, like no interest nonewhatsoever. She wants to But and then

(25:22):
Charlie was with us, and Icouldn't love Charlie more than She's just this
bundle of cuteness. And my girlsjust like adore her and she adores my
girls, and watching them together,I keep thinking like, man, Wags,
you should be careful, like Idon't think you should allow Charlotte anywhere
near Nina because she is Nina likeher that she has this little diva attitude

(25:48):
to herself. She wants to pickout everybody's clothes up forever twenty one and
she's like, you should get this. This is gonna look really cute on
you. She's like a future littlelike I don't even know what she is
amazing. I love her yeah,she was. She was, um,
I'm not crying. My allergy suddenlykicked in crying about Nina wearing cropped it.

(26:11):
Actually, I don't know if shetold you're not, but she picked
out when I was like, you'renot, you're not wearing that. She
did tell me that. She didsay, and I was like, just
like no, no, I waslike, it was it was cute,
but it was it was like youI said, you need to wear a
bra. You cannot wear a brawith that. And it tied in the
back and it was halter, andI was like, I don't know about
that, but yeah, Charlie's like, why don't you try this? And
she's N's like this is a greatidea. And meanwhile, Gigi's out,

(26:34):
She's picking up every bucket, hat, everything tied eye and I'm like,
that's my girl, like driving menuts. I was like, and I'm
encouraging it. I'm like Tideye patternsall go together. I feel like Eric
Cartman from South Park, like,oh my god, hippies just smoke pot
and smell bad. And that's justwhat I envisioned Gig in high school,

(26:57):
just like a total stone or hippiewith like a guitar, but hey,
whatever, I don't care. Adiva and a hippie. I guess it'll
work. What else do we havegoing on? Oh my two words came
back. Yeah, yeah, Iwant to hear about the birds. Okay,
So I'm sure everybody remembers the littlebirds from last year that got eaten

(27:19):
and the mom chased the cat andit was all tragic and horrible. Well,
I don't know if it's the samebird or what, but she built
a fucking nest in the same bushwhere her little birds got eaten. So
I take a picture and I'm like, oh my god, the bircher back.
So the kids are like, mom, me, the bircher back,

(27:40):
blah blah blah. So the problemis, like it's right out my side
door, so when you walk out, the bird just takes up, so
she can't and we use my sidedoor like that's where we're going in and
out of the house. So Idon't know if like she couldn't be there
whatever. So the one day Iwent to look and it was cracking,
like there was like they were hatching. It was like we got their hatching.
We were all excited. Two dayslater, I come back, they're

(28:03):
all hatched. But there is justoh my god, it was so said,
there are just maggots eggs. Ohmy god, was it the cat?
I don't know. I saw noevidence of a living bird, but
they were like just straight up,like just crawling. It looked like eat
rice. It was the most likepouring out of the eggs. And I'm

(28:30):
like, this is my life.This is my life. Little birds are
supposed to hatch and instead I getfucking maggots. This is the story of
my life. I thought they weregoing to come back and it was going
to be the splendid rebirth of thelittle bird. Second, and the other

(28:51):
thing that you could look at isthat mama bird. I was like,
I can't do this. Mama birdscan't have abortion. So maybe mama bird
had hatch those eggs in your yardbecause she knew that death would be upon
them. Maybe I'm the birdie abortionclinic that I don't know what I think

(29:12):
that's Is that called homicide? Likeit's not an abortion because well, I
don't know. No, Well thatwould be like murder every time you make
it like an omelet. If thatwere true. M right, we need
to we need the bird lady.I need to ask her of common birds

(29:33):
and it's normal for for maggots tohatch out of robin eggs, because yeah,
there, I that might be abad omen. Yeah, that's what
I'm saying. I'm telling you.I think you've you've pissed off everybody else
in your life. Now it's thespirits you like, you know, fuck
Julia, you don't even get littlebirds just now, you can't have maggots

(29:59):
here. You can have you cantake care of flies if you want to.
Oh my god, so what didyou do? Did you leave them
there? Not? Ill? No? I didn't know what to do.
So I got Jack and I waslike, you come see this in my
right, like is it just likeI don't know, bird fuzz or something
I didn't know. So he looksand he's like, no, those are
those are maggots ill And it's likeright next to our house. So I

(30:22):
was like, what do we do? And he's like, we take it
down. So we just took thenest and like threw it away and they
were they were all cracked, likethere was nothing, and it was just
like like he didn't look like toofar into the eggs, but you could
see that. Like, so Idon't know if they like I don't know,
can they like miscarry? Can theystart to hatch and then die like?

(30:45):
I don't know how ye, Imean there could have been some like
you know, but well maybe MoMAbird had an STD or something. I
don't know. This is some stuffingmore. I really Toldie gonna be good
to it this episode, but Idon't know what happened. Oh, welcome
back so much, didn't you.I think we should take a break.

(31:11):
Yeah, let's let's do that andfind some some sanity. I think when
we come back. Um, Ihave a little update on our our old
friend Laurie Vallos. Another mom thatkills your kids? Yeah, well wow,
let's to to top that, um, a little story about Casey Anthony.
So we're just gonna call this motherkillers, the mother a bird of

(31:37):
the baby bird abortionists that. Yeah, it's just I mean, we clearly
are wonderful parents, we're great mothers, so we're not, you know,
killing anybody, um, but we'regonna talk about women that do. So
come back in a minute. We'llbe right back. Listen to the commercials
because that's how we make money.Why, welcome back to Mom's and mayhem

(32:00):
so we are doing a murderous Mom'sepisode, I guess, and my but
I guess we could call her themost hated woman in America. However,
we're covering the two most hated womenin America today because I think Lorie Vallo
has jumped up above Casey Anthony inmy personal opinion. But Casey Anthony,

(32:23):
for those who don't know who KaseyAnthony is. In twenty eleven, she
was she stood trial for the murderof her daughter, Kaylee, who was
two years old at the time.She absolutely fucking did it. This bitch
was way more guiltier than OJ andshe walked. So she has been living

(32:45):
the past nine years free as abird, doing whatever the fuck she wants.
And Amanda wagon Seller has a littlebit of an update for us about
miss Anthony. Please tell me thatshe got arrested for something and she's doing
time in prison. Well, anda special report brought to you from the

(33:07):
Maggot Birds. Um no, okay, let me let me get my shit
together. Um. So, CaseyAnthony recently was back in the news,
this time with video footage leaked fromum police of a confrontation she had at

(33:30):
a local bar and cries, storygoes, you know she loves going to
those bars. Um, no shade, But like, girlfriend went to a
bar while her child was missing anddead. So you if you don't know
that story, please go and dosome research. Maybe we can put a

(33:51):
link. I mean, yeah,I was gonna say we could put a
link, but honestly, if youjust type in case to Anthony, I
just did this two minutes ago,pages and pages. So she alleges she
was at a bar and some womanthrew a drink at her. Good,
you're Casey Anthony. You gotta expectit like that. Look, I expect
shit like that. People don't likeme if somebody throws something at me in

(34:14):
a bar, I figure, ohthat's somebody I pissed off at some point
in my life. Whatever, moveon, y Leah doesn't go anywhere.
That's another point. So this drinkis thrown at her, she calls the
police. Casey Anthony called the policepeople because someone threw a drink at her.
They didn't call She didn't call thepolice because her daughter was missing.

(34:36):
Now she called the police to getsomebody threw a drink at her. So
the police come and they're talking andthere's a video. I will link the
video with this episode. Basically,she says that she's had some issues with
this woman that threw the drink ather because this woman was dating at some
point Casey Anthony's ex boyfriend, whichyou ready for this one. Kasey Anthon

(35:00):
Andy's ex boyfriend was a police sergeantwith the local police force in her area.
So I wonder how they met.Do you think it was like plenty
of fish or like, I don'tknow, like was he a part of
the investigation. That's curious from Soshe the police are there and the police

(35:21):
officer is talking and she's like,I like out. Casey's like, I
didn't really want you guys show up. I call the non emergency line.
I've had a lot of issues withthis woman, Like I don't want problems
because the police officer came into thebar. It's not like the police officer
removed them. And she's like,I've been trying to get like harassment charges
against her. I text messages likenobody takes me seriously, but now I

(35:44):
have heard your kid. But nowbecause someone threw a drinker, She's like
it's right here, like I'm stillwet, Like it just happened. So
this happened, full disclosure. Wewere supposed to record an episode last week.
It's it's us. It didn't happen. So this was an article I
was going to share last week.Since that happened. The woman who threw

(36:08):
the drink at her, and thereare my air quotes for those of you
that aren't seeing a video right now, says this is all a stunt.
Why is it a stunt? Becauseallegedly, and apparently whatever word you want
to use today, Casey Anthony isworking on a documentary about her daughter's death.
You have got to be kidding menow again, this is all coming

(36:32):
from And let me see if Ican find her Selamamia Moia. I mean,
I wasn't going to use her nameearlier, but she went to the
news about this, she said,So you know, she apparently is going
to be working on a new documentaryabout the murder of her daughter. What
what I want to know what CaseyAnthony is going to say? Now,

(36:59):
let's be clear here. She hasbeen acquitted of all charges. This was
not a hung jury, This wasnot the case was not thrown out.
She was found not guilty on allcharges. So double jeopardy applies if she
wants to be like, yeah,I killed her, it was an accident.
She could do that at this point, which I'd have a little bit

(37:22):
more respect for her if she did. But like, is this gonna be
like the OJ thing where he wrotea book if I did it? Like,
do you think that's what this isgoing to be? Like mhm,
Like is it going to be likeher trying to say somebody else did it?
She's still gonna be trying to blameher dad and her mom, like
and whoever, Yeah, maybe thisex boyfriend, maybe this Selma that she

(37:45):
has beef with, So she didall this, made all this rucus,
there's my boom of the day,and then decide it not to press charges,
not to file any like harassment orrestraining order against her, even though
she said that she's been trying todo that, so she opted not to

(38:07):
do that. Do I think thatshe is doing a documentary? I don't
know. I mean, there's beenwords of that for years now, that
she's going to be doing that,but I don't necessarily think that's true.
Um, I think she might beworking on something else or she's like,
you know what, it's been awhile I want attention. And this woman

(38:30):
that threw the drink on her,who says she'd actually throw the drink.
She said she flipped a cup andthe drink fell on her. Whatever a
drink fell got on her. Ityou know, it doesn't matter. Yeah,
yeah, exactly that. It doesn'tthat the guy, the police sergeant,
this other woman Thelma didn't date,like it's it's all, Oh that's

(38:52):
me, that's what she says.Now is this woman telling the truth?
I don't know. Do I reallycare? No? Does anyone else really
cared? No? The fact thatCasey Anthony called the police. I can
guess someone I would drink at her, but her baby was dead, missing
in her drunk. That never neverwants. I mean, I think her

(39:15):
story. I mean obviously she shegotta quit it. But I think people
if she would have been like,hey, I like call the police,
like rite when it happened, Ithink her outcome of hate would it be
would Yeah? At least there therecould be something there. Um. But
yeah, so she is um stillfree. She could do. Like I

(39:37):
said, she can pretty much dowhatever she wants at this point. Uh,
you know, she thought she lookedhot. She had like not here,
I am shaming someone whatever, judgeme. Um. She like a
tight fitted shirt on and a hatand like tight jeans, and she was
like very in your face, likeI can't believe this happened. And she's
like oh. She kept going likeI'm like, I didn't want I didn't

(40:00):
want this, like all these peopleto be here. Yes, you did,
you did? You wanted the attention. You do not call the cops
because somebody threw a drink on you. And first of all, she said
that she called a non emergent lineif I if I call the cops that
I'm inside of a bar. I'venever done that, but I would assume
that I would leave the bar,and if there was someone that I felt

(40:21):
threatened by and they were still nearme, I would remove myself from that
situation. And then I would wantthe bold person would do. And even
if she decided not to follow withany kind of like criminal charges or whatever,
harassment, whatever she wanted to do, Okay, that's fine, I
would still like removed myself. Andshe just wanted Casey wanted the police to

(40:42):
remove this other woman, but shethere. She didn't want them there,
she didn't want them there. Butshe wanted them to remove her from the
room. Casey, Anthony, ifyou're listening to mom to Mayhem, because
you clearly are. We know youare. We know you're listening, go
away because nobody really wants to hearfrom you unless you're about to tell us

(41:05):
the truth. But you maybe.I truly believe she accidentally killed her.
However, I think she accidentally killedher by dosing her with chloroform. I
don't think she intended it to killher. I think she wanted her to
sleep so she can go to awet T shirt contest. That's what I
think. Yeah, yeah, II could, I could get behind that.
I have a very difficult time understandinghow anyone could want to kill their

(41:30):
own child, Like I I that'ssomething. Maybe that's it. Maybe there's
almost like a block in my headwhere it's like, well, she didn't
intend to kill her, Like Ialmost feel like, yeah, you're right,
maybe there's a like how but youcan't fathom it. I can't fathom
it, Like I don't know,like give him some melotonin and call a

(41:52):
babysitter. How hard is that?Like damn tree? Yeah, but yeah,
so again, if you just wantto go down a deep rabbit hole
when you're like, I can't believethese people actually exist and they're still alive.
There was even like articles about herlawyer. Oh what was his name?

(42:15):
What was his name? Um?What was his name? He basically
saying that like he he admitted thatCasey was guilt her. Yeah, killed
her, killed her her? Ohsay guyas guas that. I was just
pulling it up. I was obsessedwith that trial, Like I watched it
from beginning to end. I waspregnant with Gigi and being like this is

(42:39):
like just maybe I was pregnant withNina. I can't even remembering with Maybe
it was two thousand and eight whenthe kid went missing. I well,
she was acquitted in July of twentyeleven. Okay, then I was pregnant
with Gigi. I was very shewas born in August. Yeah, so
yeah it was a baby. Yeahjust up. Yeah, Like I don't

(43:02):
I mean, I don't even wantto try because I don't want to.
Like, my mind's fucked up enough. I don't need to be in the
minds of a psychopath. Um.But that brings me to Laurie Vallo,
caded woman in the world right now, her old our old friend. UM,

(43:25):
we did an episode about her awhile back, so we will put
that episode description or link in thereso you guys go back to listen to
that um SO back again. Wewere going to record an episode last week
on the fourth um SO in May, which is only less fun than Yeah,

(43:47):
I mean honestly it does. Casey, Casey Anthony Laurie Vallo was basically
presenting that she was incapable and competentto stand trial mum. And for those

(44:07):
of you haven't been following up,that they did find the bodies of JJ
and Entily UM, and that bothLorie and her current husband Chad, Yeah,
we're charged in We're charged with themurder. And then there was there's

(44:28):
extra charges in there for his formerwife Tammy about conspiracy to commit murder.
I mean this itself like we couldspend hours talking about this and so children
just to clarify, UM, JJand Tylie were found on Chad day Bell's
property. They were found buried ina I believe it was like a pet

(44:52):
cemetery. Again, same thing withCasey Anthony UM on his property. So
the king were clearly I mean,in my opinion, allegedly murdered by the
two of them, or they actuallyknew where they were. But yeah,
keep going. So, so thefirst article that I wanted to more talk

(45:15):
about was about Laurie Um was deemednot competent to stand trial after being after
being indicted for the murder of JJentirely. So then it was up to
the judge to make that determination basedoff what the psychologist had determined, if
she would be able to actually standtrial. So that was big news,

(45:36):
like this, this could go eitherway. She could end up the judge
could say yes, she's competent andgo through the trial, or the judge
could say no, she's not andfollow whatever mental health court protocol they were
going to do today actually probably technicallyyesterday the seventh. It's not funny.

(46:00):
I don't know what I'm saying thatthe prosecutor no longer disputes competency of Lorie
Valodeto. So the prosecutor. Yeah, so the prosecutor is saying, you
know what, We're we're not goingto fight you on this. We're going
to take what the psychologist says.We're going to take the presented information,
and we're gonna go with that.Leah, what does that mean that means

(46:22):
that in the state of Idaho theyhave she will be sent to a mental
institution. And until it does notmean that she will never stand trial.
That's not what this means. Itdoes mean there's a very good chance she
will never stay in trial. IfLorie whatever the fuck name she's using right

(46:45):
now, Valo dabl whatever, Ifshe is manipulate as manipulative as I believe
she is, and she is ableto get the the doctors around her to
believe that she is not getting betterand saying that she doesn't understand why she's

(47:06):
being charged with this, she maynever be able to stand trial. It
will be up to the doctors inthe mental institution. It is out of
the court's hands at this point.They cannot charge her now. Chad Daybell
is competent from what I understand,and he can be charged with all of

(47:29):
this. So I find that tobe very interesting. But I also think
that Laurie Dabel looked. There werestories about her saying going for her first
court appearance. If you go andI think on YouTube, you can find
it, and there's articles her likepod mate in jail had talked about things

(47:51):
where Laurie was worried about her makeupand what she was going to look like,
and they asked if they thought shewas going to get bail, and
Lorie stood in front of them andsaid, well, we'll see if all
this she ran her hand up anddown her body is worth a million dollars.
That to me does not sound likea woman that is incompetent. It

(48:14):
doesn't. I'm sorry, I don'tunderstand this court. Now, you could
also look at the fact that theybelieve that their children were zombies, and
you can The problem here is actually, in my opinion, when I was
reading looking into this, her exwhite, her ex husband, what was

(48:37):
his name? The Valoe husband,I forget what his name was. I'm
sorry, the one that was murderedby her brother. Oh oh, I
don't remember his name. I forgethis name too. Um but and I'm
sorry because that's horrible. We shouldremember the victims. But Lori Jay Bell's
uh Valoe day Bell. Her brother, Charles chat Charles Valow. There is

(49:02):
video of him talking to the policesaying that she, excuse me, is
um crazy, that there's something wrongwith her? Oh, hold on one
second. Alex Cox is her brother, Charles Valo is her husband, Her
Disney's husband and Alex Cox is theone that killed her husband killed. Yes,

(49:25):
and Charles or Charles Voot Sorry,there's too many men involved in this
woman's life. Listen. This isjust a point that if you're going to
get married, get married once.If you want to live in sin with
someone else, do it. Butif you're going to do this and commit
murders and you want moms and mayhemto talk about it, We're not going
to do that. There's too manypeople to Yeah, just quit change of

(49:46):
names and that kind of stuff.Just be like Dick number one, Dick
number two, Dick number three,dead dick. That's that's the way we're
going to start reporting to you.That is awfully Listen, Maggot's come out
of my robin eggs leave me alone. So maybe we should edit that out.
We probably won't, but maybe weshould. So there's video of Charles

(50:10):
Vallow saying that she has completely losther mind and that she needs to be
checked out. Then there's also videoof her talking to the police where the
police are saying, you know,you could be three out two and you
have to stay for seventy two hours, and she's like, oh, I'm
totally mentally sound, blah blah blahblah blah, there's nothing wrong with me,

(50:32):
she's having and the police let hergo. So here's what I don't
understand. How she, all thesudden is not mentally sound to stand trial.
But she's taken in by the policeafter she attacks her husband ultimately,
and this is before he was murdered. The husband is saying there's something wrong

(50:57):
and she talks her way out ofit. So which part of her as
real? I don't know. Um, I'm not a doctor, but the
little things I hear about Laurie Valo, she was it was too calculated,
It was way too calculated. Shelied, she knew what she did was
wrong, and insanity in the criminalaspect, from what I understand. To

(51:19):
be criminally insane, you have tonot understand what you're doing is wrong.
So if she thought killing her children, was this this thing that needed to
happen, because I don't know ifGod told her to do it then,
which is exactly So if this istrue, why was she saying, Oh

(51:42):
no, my JJ is with myfriend so and so and and Tyley is
at byu Idaho. Why is shelying to the police. Why is she
saying that they're in these polygamus campsum in a place to be safe.
Why is she dying about where thekids are? She knew what she did

(52:02):
was wrong, so I don't understandhow she can't stand trial. How do
you feel about it? So Ihave a different perspective, and I think
there are going to be a lotof people like me as well. I
think as far as the prosecute,as far as her not being confident,

(52:22):
I I do believe that if she, if she truly was in this cult
of was it one hundred and fortyfour thousand of the Chosen people, I
don't know the exact number, andlet's this was a cult. This was
absolutely a cult. If she,if she truly believed that. We know

(52:47):
that there are people that that isthe gospel, that is that is the
end all be all, but theyalso are able to know that they have
to protect the the normal appearance tothings. So saying, you know,
saying that she is here or thatm JJ is here like with family or

(53:10):
whatever, making those excuses doesn't seemso far fetched because people that are on
an expert but people that are inthese cults are these like super religious organized
I don't even know what the wordswould use. Groups are that they know
that people look at them, Theyknow that like this is what I believe,

(53:34):
this is true, like I'm goingto follow this to the very last
step, to my very last breath. But they're also wise to know that
the normal average person is looking atthem thinking they're crazy, thinking so kind
of like a like a defense kindof thing. I don't Again, I
don't have that mentality. I've neverbeen in that in that state of mind

(53:54):
or with those kind of people,So I don't thought those kind of people.
But those people that have those beliefs, I personally believe that the prosecutor
is not going to follow through with, you know, holding this up because
I think that they have somehow convincedLaurie to turn on Chad. Okay,

(54:20):
Chad to take it. Laurie.It doesn't matter. She's fucked, whether
she's going to have to go throughmental health court and be in an institution
or she's going to be in straightup at a penitentiary. She's not getting
out. There's no way she's goingto get out out of that. There's
too many things pointing to it.How she's treated, where she goes.
That's a difference. But I mean, she's not going to be with her

(54:44):
husband again, She's not gonna bewith Chad again. So what would it
be for her to be like,yeah, you know what, I'll tell
you everything you want to know.You make sure I'm protected. I really,
I really think that she will.I think that is a very very
interest interesting opinion because I have beenwaiting for the moment where one of them

(55:06):
flips on the other. I've beenwaiting for it because I'm surprised it wasn't
Chat first. I really, becauseFlorid has all these things that would make
her and she'd be a Casey Anthony, She'd be the she'd be the Casey
Anthony they could put put away absolutelywithout a doubt. This is a woman
who and let's be clear here,JJ Valo was not her biological child.

(55:30):
Yes, he was her husband Charles, okay, his sister's grandson, and
they couldn't take care of him becausehe had special needs. So Charles and
Lorie adopted JJ, and his grandmother'sbiological grandmother wanted him back. She is

(55:51):
the reason that there was even aninquest with CPS into these children, because
after after Charles was killed. Um, everything went away and the kids went
away. They disappeared, and sodid she, and she went to Hawaii
and got married again. Another Casey, Anthony, your children aren't missing and

(56:14):
you're on the beach in Hawaii usingyour dead husband's credit card to buy your
wedding bands. I see, thisis my thing. How is that not?
Mentally like she knew what she wasdoing? Like I think so.
I think if the if the prosecutoris sitting down on this, I really

(56:35):
wonder if you're right, if they'regetting her to flip evidence. And because
I don't think she pulled the trigger, I don't think. I think.
I think Lorie Vallo thinks that sheis truly thinks she is a gift from
God. I do. And Um, I think she's manipulative, and I
think she's very She's pretty. Imean you could look at her and see

(56:57):
it, right, She's she's anattractive one. And she manipulates men,
that's what she does. And Ithink she fell under this this crazy fucking
cult that Chad day Bell has goingwith his Have you listen listen to the
podcast or anything that they do,because holy fucking Christ, is that crazy?
No, I'm Also I try notto listen things like that because again,

(57:22):
I put the magnet up to myarms, so I lean doesn't want
to explode, and I don't wantto end up in a cult because I'm
like that that kind of makes sense, Like what what is it's just to
me killing your child or being apart of killing anyone like that itself is

(57:42):
a hard concept, um, butit's using like religion and God like that
makes it like I know that,you know, we all have our different
beliefs and we all question things atdifferent times, and you know, even
people that don't believe that are atheistsand they're like, Okay, something happens.
You're like, I don't know anyother way to explain it, Like

(58:02):
yeah, out of science, explainthat. But then when you hear things
like that, it's like it's almostlike people that you know, are religious,
believe in God, have their beliefs, and they're healthy and they're not
they're not using that as a likea weapon to commit a crime, Like
they're not using their religion to hidethings, and it's just well, let's

(58:25):
be care a lot. I amin no way blaming religion for the murder
of these children. I think thatChad Gaybel is a sociopath. I do.
I think he is a complete sociopath. And I think she is too,
Laurie Vallo, and I think.I mean, it's known that psychopathy

(58:47):
is not the same in women asit is in men. It manifests differently,
and promiscuity is a big one.Now, she wasn't promiscuous because she
was raised Mormon. Are we manand in house x Mormon um schres,
Yeah, she's never killing anyone.Yeah if shereis hasn't killed anybody, and

(59:07):
she was well, I don't meanthat we know existential Ginger podcast open up
some loophole there, we take itback, but like there. To me,
it's not religion that did it.But I think that you can manipulate

(59:29):
religion to make people do crazy thingsfor you. And I think that's that's
what Chad Dave Bell did and Ithink that's what Laurie Bellow did too.
She didn't want to be a momanymore. I don't think she wanted to
be a mom anymore. I don'tthink Chad day Bell wanted the kids anymore,
and I think JJ was too much. So they used their crazy batshit
religious beliefs as an excuse in theirown heads to kill these kids. That's

(59:55):
what I think. Um, andspeaking about our leigon and ikey ikey people,
do you want to take a breakand come back and with the end
of the show, spend maybe tenminutes on mister Josh Dugger. Oh yeah,
let's talk about him. Let's justtalk about well, we'll give him

(01:00:17):
a pardon from the motherhood talk.But well we're gonna get We're gonna take
a really quick break and come backwith another Case of the Ikeys and we're
gonna talk about josh Ducker and hisrecent arrest. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to months and Mayhem.So on this episode of the Case of

(01:00:37):
the Ikeys, we are now goingto talk about Joshua Ducker. So if
you've been living under a rock,you are not aware that Josh Dugger was
arrested in may for um possessing childpornography. And some of this has been

(01:00:59):
spoken about, some of it hasnot doing intense research on the topic.
One of the photos, I guessseveral of the photos, but there was
one child in particular that was eighteenmonths old that can we take a minute.

(01:01:19):
So because of this, he islooking at pretty much life in prison.
There's there's no question about it.Even in Arkansas, which I can
make fun of because my family's fromthere, so I can make fun of
the fact that people from Arkansas areweird. Don't come from me. Sorry,
sorry, big Daddy. We callour grandparents big Daddy. That's weird.

(01:01:42):
We all know it. Get overit. I love it so And
for those who aren't familiar, theDuggers are the infamous um nineteen kids and
counting family from TLC and a littlebit of I guess you could say his
story on this how many years agowas it now? I want to say,

(01:02:05):
twenty eleven, twelve, something likethat. It came out because the
Duggers were supposed to be on Oprahwhen they were at the height of their
fame, and it a police reportwas leaked that Josh Dugger had been reported
for molesting his sisters and two babysitters, who was a teenager at the time.

(01:02:28):
According to the family, they calledthe police and they got him counseling
and the YadA, YadA, YadA, YadA. It is coming to light
now that none of that is trueand that the police officer that they did
report it to was a member oftheir church, which which is the Foundation

(01:02:50):
for Life Principles run by Bill Gothard, which is just google it. It's
Ikey. They believe in blanket training, which is where you take an infant
and you put it on a blanketand if that infant rolls off the blanket
or cries while I'm the blanket,you slap the child. Infants you teach,

(01:03:10):
you know, children are to beseen, not heard. They're also
it's a quiverfulum religion, which meansthat you it's bounciful, quiverful, that
you're puts on the earth to haveas many children as possible, which is
why that's why the Duggers have nineteenkids, um. Which also just to

(01:03:34):
interject right there, a lot ofpeople are under the assumption that um,
that the Duggers are like Mormons straightare not that this is a Christian religion.
This is a fundamental evangelical Christian religion. It says nothing like the Mormon
religion. Um. Mormons, Ithink series would agree, are a sect

(01:03:55):
of Christianity, but it is notthe same thing, not even remotely the
same thing. They they believe inJoseph Smith and Moroni and Day these people
believe in I don't even know what, because let's let's face it, the
mainstream Aldis church is nowhere as crazyand ikey as what the doggers believe in.

(01:04:18):
I'm gonna say it. Come forme if you want to. It
is true. It is misogynistic,it is repulsive, and it breeds this
kind of behavior. The police officerthat the family originally reported Josh too,

(01:04:38):
was a member of their church,and so after he had molested his sisters,
they sent him to another person inthe church took Josh and basically shaved
his head and cleaned a swamp.That was his punishment for molesting his sisters.
No mental counseling, no report tothe police. They did contact the

(01:05:02):
police after one of the babysitters fileda report against him, but the police
officer was someone that belonged to theirchurch. That police officer was convicted of
having child pornography. So just thinkabout that, like take that. I

(01:05:26):
am in no way trying to saythat evangelical Christians are also child molesters.
That's not what I'm saying. ButI am saying that if you raise children
to believe that the man is incharge at all, times, and they
can't do anything, and they can'tlook at the internet and they can't they

(01:05:47):
don't have any view on sexuality whatsoever, right none, And then when they
do something like this, you don't, as a parent say I need to
get my kid fixed. Why ismy teenage son touching his underage sisters.
I don't care if it's over theclothes, I don't care if it's under

(01:06:09):
the clothes, I don't care.Why are you not trying to fix this?
And this is my big thing,Like, I don't want to sit
here and say that Josh Duggar isa victim, because he's not. Josh
Dugger is probably the worst of theworst of the Duggers. The victims in
this situation are the daughters who arestill being victimized every day, the daughters

(01:06:33):
that are being forced to stand bytheir brother his wife. Which that's a
conversation I think we should have.So his wife, Anna Dugger, it's
pregnant with their seventh child. Alot of people want her to leave.
How do you feel about that?If there was ever a woman that was

(01:06:55):
trapped, she is trapped. Iknow. She also grew up in the
same faith, based in the samebelief system. And if you aren't taught
there's anything else, or if thereis something else, you're you're sinning.
You will lose everything you have ifyou if you were brainwashed, essentially,

(01:07:18):
I don't know another word to usefor it. If you are so forced
like your beliefs are so corrupted andso forced upon you that you don't know
any other way, what are yougoing to do now? I I don't
think she's an innocent bystander, butI also think that she is someone that

(01:07:43):
was raised to accept abuse and acceptand to be tolerant of whatever her husband
told her to do. And whateverhe is saying is best for our family,
is best for our livelihood. Iwill go ahead and I will do
this. The pressure that she mayfeel, again, my personal opinion is

(01:08:08):
from having access to social media andhaving people share what they share on social
media tabloids like waiting you know,waiting outside, waiting for her to give
a statement. What do you do? Do you leave everything you know?
If you think that by leaving everythingyou know that you are going to that's

(01:08:30):
it. Your life is over,like you have no other option, Like
you will be sucked into hell ifyou leave, like and your children are
going to be punished because you leftyour husband's like that's really what she's taught.
And I this is my problem withthese fundamental, ichy assholes. This
is my problem is the women don'thave a voice. And when it comes

(01:08:55):
to a point like this where you'remarried to a man that has sexually explicit
photos of an eighteen month old babyand you can't leave him, that is
a danger in itself. And Ithink that Josh Dugger needs to stand trial.
But I think that every man thathas been involved in this boy's life.

(01:09:21):
And I say boy because he's nota man, because one he's too
waky to be one, and twoI don't think he was raised well enough
to become a man, not areal one. And I think his father
and the church and everyone around himshould be prosecuted too, because I think
it breathed like these kind of religionsjust breathe this kind of thing. And

(01:09:45):
it also makes men like Josh Duggerthink that they're untouchable. This is a
guy that was humiliated in front ofAmerica for for molesting his sisters, right,
This is a guy that this kindof stuff was exposed, and now
he's doing this and he gets cutdoing this and it was a year ago
when this investigation started and he's feelout there being mister famous like in the

(01:10:10):
family. It's not keeping the kidsaway from him not really bowls my mind
that it's a crazy the fact thathe is allowed to be yeah, around
his children, but then all togo back with Anna Dugger. And this
is a question that is asked often. People study it like the whole when

(01:10:31):
do you know right from wrong?At some point if you were raised on
this belief system, but you haveaccess and you have people in your life,
especially because they're reality stars. It'snot like they just have a Facebook
account and there you know, intheir local yard sale group. They're reality

(01:10:51):
stars. They have as Yeah,they have access to people who are from
all over. I wonder, andI'm always curious, especially in the funding
world, is there ever a momentthat they're like, maybe this isn't the

(01:11:12):
right way, Like is that somethingthat they are capable of doing? Is
that something that crosses their mind?Because if it is, they don't they
don't move on from it. Butat the same time, some of the
Josh's sisters have left, they havethat kind of and had they not been

(01:11:35):
in reality TV and had access topeople that have different viewpoints and actually listen
to what they said. Would theybe outside of the church, Would they
be outside of this life? Soprobably not, they would still be there.
So is it possible? Yes,we see it. We see it
with some of his sisters. Theyyou know, they some of them are

(01:11:57):
still very conservative in their viewpoints,you know, still wearing long skirts and
covering their our shoulders and you know, necklines and everything, but they're more
accepting and they're more tolerant of otherpeople and at least having conversations. So
is it possible. We see it? But does that mean that there's something

(01:12:17):
special about them? I think theone that really has is Jill Dillard,
who was one of Josh's sister victims. She was one of the ones that
was molested. She's married to DerekDillard, who is I believe still in
law school now. Let her husband. Her husband is horrible about that LBGTQ

(01:12:42):
community, I mean, yeah,horrible. However, they have really cut
themselves out from the family and theydefinitely see the misogyny that and the problems
with Jim bog Tugger, and theyhave called him out for being this he's
a monster. I mean, atleast sounds like their father. He is
a monster, and I think it'sa shame that he can't be prosecuted for

(01:13:05):
Joshua's mistakes. I really believe that. M Well. I mean, then
again, you got to think ifif you're child, if you feel like
you're raising your we can't go offanother tangent. But if you feel like
you're raising your child the right way, and you truly believe that, and
you truly believe in the belief systemyou're putting upon your children, and they

(01:13:27):
grow up and they do awful,horrible things, should you take some responsibility?
Yes, But should you be putin jail? I don't know if
you're still enabling them and covering forthem and allowing it to happen. I
think Jim Bob Tugger does that.I think that makes sight he's yeah,
he's completely completely intropred. I wantto ask about Hill because I don't I

(01:13:51):
honestly don't know that. Has sheever expressed or acknowledged the abuse? Yeah?
Come out, okay? Yeah?And has she has she forgiven her
brother? So I don't think so. So it seems she was one of
the ones when when this all cameout, it was a couple of the

(01:14:12):
sisters. It was Jill and itwasn't Joanna. I forget, I forget.
They all have jay names. Ican't remember, but Jim Baba.
Michelle did an interview with Megan Kellyon Fox News and they daughters sit down
and talk about it. Jill wasone of them that did. Jill was
the She was one of the biggers. She was one of the older four

(01:14:32):
who helped raise younger ones, whichum and she has since very much detached
from it now. In that interviewwith Meg and Kelly, she says,
you know, it wasn't a bigdeal and my parents got him out of
the house and blah blah blah.Since then, over the years, she
has definitely on her Instagram page calledout her father, called out, not

(01:14:57):
directly, her husband does more.But since this has happened, she has
she has distanced herself from Josh,and she has said that, you know,
Josh basically is a monster. She'sthe only one that has but she
has. I wonder will Anna faceany kind of legal ramification. I hope

(01:15:17):
for this because part of and wetalked about this a couple episodes ago,
we talked about when this first happened, so last one um and part of
the discovery was that Josh had thisspecial program within his computer system, so

(01:15:38):
Anna could have access to what shesaw. Is it possible that she saw
something at some point? Absolutely?Is it possible? Yes? Is it
plausible? I think so, LikeI'm sorry, Like I don't know.
I think there's no way a wifedoesn't know at some level what's happening.

(01:16:00):
Whether I mean, and again,he was also exposed for Ashley Madison,
which consenting adults. I don't care, No, I mean that that is
something that's different, even if it'slike not right within their religious beliefs.
It's not against the law, it'snot you know, it's not anybody's business,

(01:16:21):
but it's hers, and she shouldhave had. It was against everything
she stood for, and it justit breaks my heart as a woman to
know that she does not have thecapability or support system she She is surrounded
by so many people, Those familiesare fucking huge. Well, clearly there's

(01:16:45):
no birth control right and there's noabortions, no abortions, God no,
but there's no one there to lookat her and say you are worthy of
walking out that door. You cando this, you can raise these kids.
He's not worthy of you, andyou can do better. You can
make their lives better. And Ithink that is so sad. I really

(01:17:09):
feel for Anna Dugger. I doI think she's another victim. I think
not as much as the children,obviously, because these children and these photos
are are. I hope they findwhoever took these photos and those people are
prosecuted to the umps degree. ButI do I think that Anna Dugger is

(01:17:30):
a victim. I do. Ithink it's it's sad, and I do
I feel for her, and Idon't think she's going to leave. I
don't, do you, So Idisagree slightly with you. I agree that
I do believe she's a victim.I believe she's a victim of a life
that has been instilled upon her andeverything. But again, we know that

(01:17:55):
there is a good possibility that shewas exposed to some of the things that
he has, and I agree,I I cannot fathom. And again this
could be because I don't have thatmindset. I wasn't raised with with those
beliefs. I wasn't raised in anenvironment that, you know, because I
was a woman, I was youknow, had to be submissive to two

(01:18:19):
men. But if those images thatwere found on his computer, if she
had any any view of them,that's a good point. How how do
you justify not holding her accountable fordoing something? That's a really good point.

(01:18:42):
I really good point, And Imean it happens a lot where they
see they say, people that havebeen abused sometimes end up abusing other people
because that's that's their experience, andsometimes that that does happen. But I
I can't think like that because again, I have never been in that situation

(01:19:04):
with an upbringing. So yes,I do believe that she is a victim
of these circumstances, but she isalso responsible if she saw those those images
and knew that he was doing that, And I just I can't imagine that

(01:19:25):
he did not look at things outsideof his work computer. I can't either.
That sounds like a guy that isis addicted to what he's doing,
and it's it's it's different than youknow, looking at porn online and seeing
two adults, even if that oneadult looks younger. Yeah, And then

(01:19:46):
the images that the FBI and thepeople that were investigating this said it was
some of the worst images that theyhave ever seen people that There was one
guy who has been in in thisindustry for industry, but in this career
for over twenty years, he saidit was the worst worst sexually abused images

(01:20:12):
that he's ever seen. Again,I believe, Yeah, I have hard
time calling it pornography. If thisis sex, this is not this is
not um. But again, Imean, we don't know what she's we
we don't know because we have notbeen brought up in that thing. And

(01:20:32):
I personally believe that maybe she shouldn'teven have full access to our children.
I believe that there needs to besome kind of contingency or some kind of
plan that says that she needs toundergo court order therapy that her children have

(01:20:54):
something. Even if her children werenever exposed to anything, they're going to
find out about Oh, they're goingto know about that, you know what
I mean. So I just thisis the point of the show where I
just I find myself like shutting downbecause I know, I know what it's
like to be abused and to bea victim, and I can't imagine that

(01:21:17):
somebody taking images of me in thatcapacity as a child, and knowing that
somebody is looking at them I don'teven care that they're If they're pleasuring themselves,
obviously that's disgusting and that's repulsive tome. But to think that there
might be a mother who saw picturesof me as a child being abused and

(01:21:41):
didn't do something because I am amother, I I well, that hit
deep. And I totally agree withyou. And if you want to hear
us to actually talk about this,go listen to our episode of The Ever
Evolving Truth about Pedophilia. And Iagree with you. I think that there's

(01:22:01):
a difference between looking at a consentingadult having sex or standing their naked or
whatever. If you are in anyway enjoying a child in a sexual manner,
I don't care if the kid isfully dressed. If if somebody is
looking at a picture of my kidson my Facebook page and pleasuring themselves to

(01:22:28):
it when they are fully dressed,you are a pedophile and you should be
locked up. End of discussion.There is no question about that. There
is no difference to me between actuallyraping a child and looking at these photos
where people are actually raping children andpleasuring yourself. It's culpable. Yeah,

(01:22:51):
it's like second degree sexual abuse.It absolutely is and those kids may never
know that their images are out there. And again there's an argument to be
made that some people make saying,but they don't know, so it's can
it? Can it hurt them ifthey don't know, Yes, it's your
ship. Can it absolutely can?Um. So on that note, I

(01:23:13):
think we maybe want to I don'tknow. I don't know how we're going
to tie this episode up. Itis so itchy. All all I have
to say is, um, ifwe learned anything from the last two topics,
UM, not so much Casey Anthony, UM, but Laurie and Josh
um that religion is gross. It'sdangerous, and you probably don't come for

(01:23:40):
me, but you should probably kindof stop. But I'm just saying it
should be out lot. I'm justsaying no. I fully support people practicing
religion and using, you know,exercising their freedom to do so. I
have a very difficult time with peoplethat use religion as a way to abuse
people, whether it's physically, sexually, mentally. That is the problem.

(01:24:02):
Do not use God as an excuseto hurt people. That is how we're
gonna end this. That was beautiful. Don't use God in any way,
shape or form to hurt people orGod's gonna hurt you. You're gonna have
maggots crawling out of people the birthshould we should we like, let's okay,

(01:24:25):
let's talk about something and end thisshow a little bit. All right,
how about we move on to plugsWags? Yeah, as the EP
of white Horse Media, what dowe have coming up on the show's teat
all that fun shit? Um?So this is a good time too.
I have been This is actually reallybad timing for me to say this.

(01:24:46):
I have been soliciting sex workers onlineto come on The ever Evolving Truth.
And I had a really great conversationgoing with with someone who was in the
sex work industry, who was umlegal prostitution. Okay, she did have
like an only fans. She's donesome stripping and she was actually found her

(01:25:09):
on TikTok and we've had really goodconversations and then she kind of went dark
and I haven't been able to findher. I don't know what's going on.
She was very eager to come onthe show, like she was happy
about it, and that hasn't happened. And I've reached out to other people
and I've tried different ways to approachit. I'm like, I find myself

(01:25:30):
that I'm not a threatening individual,and I'm trying to say, we just
want to talk. Like if itwas Jeff Berg or Greg Sterner or Andrew
Mouths it would be it would bevery different. Maybe even leah, um
no, I'm just going but Icould be a little rape I get it.
But um so we So we arelooking for someone in the sex work

(01:25:51):
industry. And if that's not thecorrect terminology that you use for what you
do, we are more than welcometo adjust to that. But that has
been like the universal terminology that we'vebeen able to say. It's kind of
like everyone uses it at some point. So we're looking for someone to come
on so we can talk and wecan talk about what it's like doing what

(01:26:15):
you do and not in any kindof discriminatory or derogatory way, like a
legitimate conversation about sex work. Andthere's a lot of like movements going on,
and I think, especially because ofCOVID, a lot of people have
turned to only fans, and sometimesthose only fans businesses have kind of expanded

(01:26:39):
to in person so whether it's escort, stripping, whatever, you know,
just to have a conversation because noneof us are in that industry. And
I will say here that I havea feeling that people are running away because
they're afraid they're going to be attackedwhen they exactly yeah, and I say
like, this is not that thatwill not happen. I said, we

(01:27:00):
will ask questions, and there maybe a question that's asked that isn't necessarily
um, you know, pro sexwork, but it's it's we just want
to have an open conversation and ifyou don't want to answer something, tell
us we yeah, we won't.Or there's a conversation where you're like,
you know what, I really don'tlike it, we will cut it out.
You will not be sitting on apanel with all men. Leah will

(01:27:21):
be there, I will be there. It will be I'm fascinated. I
personally fascinated with this, and Ilooking at as a way of you know,
some people say, well, you'resomething like a body. You're doing
this, it's my fucking body.I think it's the most empowering, empowering
thing a woman can do. Ido. I think I think there are

(01:27:42):
levels of it where it can beCD and I think it has that kind
of um like the CD underbelly ofthe sex industry if you will, But
I really do. And there's alwaysthat joke that, oh, you know,
she's only doing this until she goesback to med school. But believe
it or not, there are tonsof women who only did it because they're
going back to med school. Yeah, why not, like the mom being

(01:28:06):
strippers Like I wish I would havehad the confidence. I fucking would have
been on a pole six nights aweek if I had the opportunity. I
had a friend that wanted to doit and she decided not to when we
lived in Philly, and I neverencouraged her to do anything more than that
because I don't have the courage todo it. I don't even have the

(01:28:28):
courage to go to a strip club. We all know this. I can't
say dirty things. However, Ithink there's something empowering about it, like
like a Jenna Jamison of the world, the Jemma Jamison's of the world,
who have these multi billion dollar industriesthat are built around her femininity. Fucking

(01:28:49):
Bravo, And I've seen nothing wrongwith that, and I personally believe so
this will be a main topic.I think I am a firm believer in
the only reason that prostitution is notlegalized in this country is because of the
white cis male patriarch ar gay that'swhy. Because it would give women way

(01:29:10):
too much power with their own bodiesin their own wallets. And that is
the only reason why. So ifyou're if you were previously in the industry
and you no longer do it andyou don't want anyone to know who you
are, we can hide your identityif that's what you would like. But

(01:29:31):
if you know of someone that wouldlike to come out on the show,
please reach out to Amanda. Whatat the ted email do you think?
Or you can email the shows.You can contact her on Facebook. Yeah,
yeah, just I mean you caneven come to this page. You
can. We're all all the sameshit all the time, so you can
come to that, you go tothe white Horse Media email like we can

(01:29:53):
put that in there. But yeah, and also, like you know,
just basic rights it comes to sexworkers like healthcare, yes, and being
able to have access to STD screeningsand birth control and things of that nature
and kind of take that stigma away. But yeah, I mean we're we're

(01:30:16):
just looking for that. I mean, the other you know, Pooky and
Paradise. It's kind of same situationas Mom's and Mayhem. We are working
on a short film, Girl onthe Farm, and we're very excited about
that. We are going to startshooting. We're actually set to shoot the
film August thirteenth through August fifteenth inLancaster County area, and we're actually getting

(01:30:38):
ready to put out kind of likea hey, is anyone interested and coming
either all three days or a coupleof hours one day whatever to kind of
help with the film production part ofit. As far as crew. It
is a non paying job, butyour name will be on the credit.
Will be an experience and how manypeople can say that they've been a part
of shooting a film and it's it'sgoing to be an intense weekend of a

(01:31:03):
lot of work. And again,we are actually paying and to put this
on. We are paying for theequipment that we need, the locations,
things of that nature, and it'sjust going to be a really great experience.
And our goal is to First ofall, we won equipment rental as

(01:31:26):
a contest. Yes, so thisisn't just like we were like, oh
you know what, let's to makethis film. We won the opportunity to
use this very high end equipment becausesomebody liked the idea of the film.
Yeah, it was it was asentence that they liked on the film.
Um. So you know, oncewe're done shooting the film, it will
be a couple months of editing andthe plan is to enter the film into

(01:31:47):
film like the Sundance kind of thingfilm festivals. So that's very exciting.
We all know that m Leah's daughterNina is our stock a Brianna and can
I can we share our new starthat we just add? I was gonna
say, do we want to shareit or do we want to wait until

(01:32:11):
the film comes out? Because thestar is never seen. I have the
audience guess that which mom and Mayhemis a character? Which way do you
want to do it? No?I like that. I think that's great.
How about you, Sis, whatdo you think should we do it?
Which way should we do it?Should we wait or should we announce

(01:32:31):
that? Oh? I kind oflike waiting. Keep one's a surprise.
Um So, since we have youon here, what is going on with
the Extisential Ginger podcast? Um?I don't know. She's caught in the
white Horse disease. Ladies and timeprobablingly admit that I don't know. I

(01:33:00):
do. I have some exciting episodescoming up, I do. UM.
I recently read the book Sapiens,which is like such a mind fuck,
such an incredible book. I highlyhighly recommend it. It is a comprehensive
history of the human species. Oohyeah, okay, it's really really interesting.

(01:33:25):
UM my mind was blown. Likeit's not like a psychological level.
He so the author um, Imean he covers like everything like it's anthropological,
social, um physical like evolutions,religious and industry and politics, and

(01:33:46):
I mean, like I feel likemy IQ bumped up ten points just by
reading this book. It was fast. I just had a content idea,
as an aside, I think thatwe need to make Sterner read this book
book and they both come on theshow and they talk about it on our
show, because I just want tohear a conversation between the two of them

(01:34:06):
just saying go ahead, this isright up Stirner's ALI. It was so
there is a I guess I wouldcall her an intellectual in the x Mormon
community. Her name is Celeste Davis. I believe she is a former seminary
teacher for the church. So herand I jumped on a recording because she

(01:34:30):
also read the book and kind oflike gave it a book review and talked
about like certain parts. So whetheryou've read the book or not, I
think that episode will be really interesting, especially as to very religious people with
former religious people, because obviously thisbook was like completely destroys the idea of

(01:34:50):
creationism, I mean, just obliterating. Yeah, I want to hear this.
Oh okay, So that's that's reallycool. I like that. I
like having like a I'm always lookingfor like a movie review or like like
lyft notes, so like I canlisten to this episode and then go back

(01:35:11):
and read a book and take mytime, like that's what she resent,
Okay, yeah, Or I meaneven if you don't want to read the
book and you just want kind oflike a synopsis, this episode is a
good way to get that too.So oh that's exciting. That's coming up.
I haven't asked me anything episode comingup, which I didn't know if.
Yeah, I didn't know if anybodywould submit questions. I just kind

(01:35:34):
of wanted to do it as like, you know, we'll see what happens,
and I've got some interesting questions pouringin so that'll be coming up soon
too. I'm excited. Have yourecorded that one? Yeah? I have
not recorded it yet. Okay,so we can still submit Yeah, can
we ask ma'am audience to submit questionsif we absolutely? Okay, So I

(01:35:57):
was just gonna say that was agreat content idea too. We should do
if this goes well, maybe wedo a crossover where blacks and I do
an am yes, and the audience, the mam audience can ask us.
But you guys suck and don't evercomment on our social media. So I

(01:36:18):
don't know if I'm gonna I thinkI'm just gonna have to choose violence.
But we can reach out to theexistential ginger ginger people and you can be
like, please ask my my atheticfriends, what do you want to know?
Yeah, what do you want toknow about scissoring? And what do

(01:36:39):
you want to know? Like theseare the psychopathic mothers words. We got
it. You need those answers,we got them. I mean, you'd
be surprised, like when Leah cameon and we did the religious MythBuster,
people came pouring in with questions likereal, very curious audience. So yeah,

(01:37:02):
no, that's good. And youas you have a show that's kind
of has like this very specific genre, Like there are people that, yeah,
like people follow you and listen toyour show because it's it's topical,
but it's also like there's something there'slike a common denominator that they listen.

(01:37:23):
I think they're mostly anti sky DaddyWarriors, That's what I think they are
mostly. I mean, I dohave some people that still classify themselves as
Christian that listen. I mean Iwas I was a guest on that Christian
conspiracy podcast. Oh my God.That's what's coming up on Moms and day
Ham ladies and gentlemen. We aregoing to pull some clips and we are

(01:37:45):
going to break down Charis getting justwhat would you say, snowballed by a
Christian podcast where she was so andher her just complete where the fuck am
I? And why the fuck isthis happening. We're gonna be doing that
on mam soon, So look forthat because it's gonna be really fun.

(01:38:08):
Our content is only talking about ourdrama injuries. We talk about the X
Ginger X Mormon and other people's dramaof the show. I'm here for it,
not not not Mama drama, notMama drama, so so we even
managed to ramble through the plugs becausethat's what we do on Mom's and Mayhem.

(01:38:30):
It's a while. Maybe we'll makethis a two part maybe, or
you could just sit here for anhour and fifty two minutes. I don't
care whatever you want to do,but you could listen to it in two
parts and then, you know,as long as you don't skip the commercials.
I'm okay with that. You don'thave to listen to at one sitting
now commercials, right, I know, because they hate me. But um,

(01:38:53):
we do have coming up a lotof really fun guests on this show.
And I'm going to put this outin the universe because as I reached
out to a YouTuber called the CriticalKum and she is kind of controversial,
pretty big um. She has somebeef with other YouTubers and she was like,
yeah, sounds like fun. Iwould love to come on your show.

(01:39:13):
So Wags and I are going towork on a kind of Q and
A for her and we'll get backto you guys. But if you,
um, you know our our YouTubepeople, if you like true crime,
especially check out her channel. It'sthe Critical k k A y M.
I'll put a link in the description, go to her show page. Like

(01:39:35):
her follower, Um, I thinkshe's fun. Um. I don't agree
with a lot of what she hasto say, but I think she's great
so and I don't and she doesn't, So I I think it's gonna be
interesting. But I also think,you know, she's she's got thousands of
views and and she's willing to comeon this really small podcast, and I

(01:39:55):
think not Alone deserves respects. Sogo to her YouTube channel well and check
her up and look for her inthe future. Anything else, Are we
good? Yeah? No? We? Um? Were moving back next week?
All right? So is it timefor a bye little doves? Is
that what it's time for? Yeah? But I'm I don't know if you're
a bird lady anymore. I'm nota bird lady. I'm not. That's

(01:40:18):
the whole point. Like by littledoves, good luck little doves, that's
what it should be. I'm changing. That's a good luck little doves,
all right, But there you go. You need it. Also, I choose violets

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