September 12, 2025 • 34 mins
Welcome to our first episode! No better way to dive into the deep end than with the Camden family in Seventh Heaven. While Mrs. C makes dinner for 12 and a prom dress with 3 hours to spare, everyone else feels big feelings about s-e-x.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Hey you! Come on over.
Mom's not home till 6 and we'reexploring the TV and movies that
made you turn down the volume soyour parents wouldn't hear.
We're going to build ourintimacy literacy and dig into
all the weird messages we tookfrom pop culture about sex,
relationships, and ourselves.
Because, let's be honest, thiswas all the sex ed we got.
(00:24):
Today, we are discussing acompletely unhinged episode of
7th Heaven.
I am joined by Blake They are arelationship therapist
specializing in gender andsexuality and absolutely the one
most likely to sew a prom dresswith five minutes remaining.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Oh my god, incredible.
And I'm joined by Veronica,local harlot about town.
She's a sexuality educator,coach, and intimacy director for
theater.
Today we're going to talk alittle bit about the Like a
Harlot unhinged episode ofSeventh Heaven.
This was episode 20 of season 2.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Blair, can you tell us what Seventh Heaven even is?
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
so glad you asked because I wrote down the show
description.
Please.
Because I have never seen itbefore we watched it for this
and wow.
It's something.
So the description is prettyshort.
Seventh Heaven centers aroundthe Camden family consisting of
Minister Dad Eric, Homemaker MomAnnie, and their five kids Matt,
Mary, Lucy, Simon, and Ruthie.
(01:31):
The family, along with theiradorable dog, Happy, lives in
Glen Oak, California.
The series chronicles the manycomplex issues of growing up in
the world today.
And that's the show.
This episode's short descriptionwas Mary and Lucy set themselves
up for disastrous dates, andEric unwittingly fixes his son
up with the senior slut.
(01:54):
I'm a little surprised that theywere allowed to put slut in the
description.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
I know.
They never use that word in theepisode.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
No.
They don't actually.
actually say slut at any pointduring the show
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
listener if you've never seen an episode of seventh
heaven uh obviously you weren'twatching uh probably the cw or
fox family uh after schoolspecial times um and i just need
you to know that this showexists in the world where
there's lots of instrumentalmusic that takes place to
(02:27):
transition us from scene toscene telling us how to feel and
making the dialogue seem wiserthan it actually is so just go
there with us to the year 1996because that's when this bad boy
started okay thank you i justneeded us to you know what let's
put in some like little flavoremotional guitar in the
background of this recording toreally give the people what they
(02:50):
need to know
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
about the vibes okay i actually need you to record
your singing because i've beenhearing you sing the theme song
multiple
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
times and it's for my version is seventh heaven as
sung by garth brooks yeah it'slike when i see the happy faces
smiling back at me i didn't knowi knew all those words but i but
i do okay so take us there blair
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
all right let's take us there we'll just get into the
beginning because this is alittle taste test pancake of an
episode so it opens straightinto the action zoomed close in
on mom's face in the shocked meand unsettled me a little bit I
wasn't ready to be that close toanyone
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
as soon as it started it does start with a
close up and it's cold openthere's no intro at first
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
cold open frigid two kids Simon the youngest son and
his friend Kyle come in theykick their mom out of the
kitchen because they need to bealone after a hard day at school
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
yeah they seem traumatized by something that
has happened at school
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
something mysterious has happened at school mom asks
no questions just leaves.
She's like, oh, okay.
I'll get out of your way.
I'll get out of your way.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
I wasn't cooking dinner for a family of 18,000.
I
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
wasn't making lasagna from scratch, which we
see later in the episode.
Surprising.
SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
Ruthie's favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
She does leave.
They start talking about amysterious video they saw in
health class.
They say, today our lives arechanged forever.
Forever.
Yes.
The implication, and they usethis language later, but not in
this scene, is that now they'vebecome men.
Now that they've in this videowhich they call the film it's
(04:35):
like when a girl monkey meets aboy monkey
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
it seems like it was a sex ed video explaining mating
but instead of talking abouthuman mating they use a video of
monkeys
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
having sex yes well and here's a little it seems a
little inconsistent to me itsurprised me because Simon is
very anti this video he's pissedoff by it he hates it so
Something should be left to theimagination.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
Yeah he's very old school.
Geographic.
He's very old school.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
But he is also the one who says my parents have had
a million talks with me.
They're constantly like talkingwith me about sex and like
relationships and he keepssaying like well I don't want to
have another one with them.
The other kid Kyle is the onewho seems a little intrigued by
(05:27):
the video.
Sure.
And he says like really yourparents talk to you about sex.
My parents have never talked tome about sex.
Not once.
SPEAKER_00 (05:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
So that felt interesting because I would have
expected the kid who like Idon't know, is used to talking
about sex.
The pastor's son.
Yeah.
The kid who's used to talkingabout sex surprises me.
It's the pastor's son.
And also that he's like, yeah, Ihate this.
Not like, I mean, I already knowthis, whatever.
Why is he so traumatized if healready knew a lot of
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
it?
Well, I imagine that theconversations he's had with
Pastor Camden and his motherwas...
not so much about the finedetails as it is about like when
a man loves a woman very muchand they've thought about it and
they've gotten married rightlike that's the talk that the
(06:23):
Camdens are giving their kidsthey're not giving their kids
like here is and maybe like thescience of reproduction but
there seems like there'ssomething difficult about this
video of monkeys literallyhaving sex on the screen yeah
which is I'm fascinated by theschool system, that they're bold
enough to show these kids videosof monkeys having sex on screen,
(06:44):
but are too uncomfortable toactually teach kids about sex
between humans.
Sans video.
Yes.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
Well, and in the same plot line, so this is one
of the major plot lines of thisepisode.
Toward the end of the episode,the pastor father finally does
corner this kid and is like,well, we are obviously going to
talk about the movie you've seenat school.
Right.
What interested me when they didhave like a little hint of a
talk about it was Simon wasdirect and said like, we're
(07:16):
talking about sex like all thetime or the school talked about
sex.
He says the word sex.
Yes.
The dad is really hesitant andtalked around it.
And he was like, well, you know,some kids only learn what the
school teaches you about men andwomen.
He doesn't say sex.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting that his young son
(07:37):
who was heavily a of thisdiscussion was a lot more direct
than he actually was
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
right and the fact that he just says men and women
which first second of all secondof all I feel like that's if
that's the teaser of theconversation we're getting
between Reverend Camden andSimon as like his style of
talking about sex I imagine alot of this video was probably
new for Simon
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
right that's why it's like it doesn't add up
because if they've had a lot ofdetailed discussions about sex
that yeah it just seems soincongruent and strange
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
yeah it's and Simon is so old school yeah he's like
what happened to romance whathappened to nice dates and
flowers is nobody a romanticanymore I'm like it just feels
like I don't know what theshowrunner's messaging is is it
to just display every singleoption of how people might feel
(08:32):
about sex
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
I don't
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
know because it didn't seem
SPEAKER_01 (08:35):
confusing
SPEAKER_00 (08:36):
I didn't know what the message was I
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
didn't get the clear message moral message I needed
from Seventh Heaven on this one.
How am I supposed
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
to feel?
Seventh Heaven's the only sex edI got.
I
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
didn't get the monkey video.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
I got Seventh Heaven.
I got men
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
and women from Revan Camden.
Okay, so this brings us to theother, like the primary plot of
the episode has to do with thesenior prom.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Big day.
It's the big day also.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
like literally the day before prom when this
begins.
SPEAKER_00 (09:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
And then prom day is is
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
how was your prom experience that way people were
talking about and planning forprom for like months
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
yes because they announced the theme and then you
want to figure out who you'regoing with or if you're going at
all I did not go spoiler alert
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
no I went with all of my pals I went to a Catholic
all girls high school and werented a school bus because we
were those hipster kids it'sfine it was 2007 we rented a
school bus and it was a bunch ofnerdy hipster theater kids
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
nice
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
that sounds fun
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
it was yeah but we had to start planning eons in
advance gotta rent the schoolbus you gotta figure out that
you're renting yourtransportation so the fact that
Matt Camden heartthrob amongstus by the way we can talk about
that as we go I mean I think Ithought he was hot when I was a
(10:05):
kid but in this rewatch I'm likeokay Matt camden i see you uh he
is like oh i'm not gonna gobecause it's a couple thing yeah
so i'm not a couple yeahapparently at this school
couples are the only peoplegoing to prom apparently we
haven't evolved yet to the pointthat groups of friends go
together and
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
except for the fact that his sisters are saying i
hope that he doesn't have a datebecause then he'll have to take
one of us and no one at schoolknows we're related
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
there's a very and this is not i hate to break it
to you yes this is an audiomedium.
Blair's eyes just got so big.
I hate to break this to you,Blair.
I'll hold your hand when I saythis.
This is not the first time thatthere's a weird romantic
undertone between the daughtersand Matt.
(10:54):
There's another scene that'sabout, I think it's Mary's first
kiss.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
Where
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
I think she almost asks if he'll practice on her.
I know.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Somebody email me about this.
I think that that's what happensso anyway there's weird
undertones gulp uh yeah soanyway so it's the day before
prom what happens it's
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
the day before prom
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
and poor mrs camden is trying to keep this family
afloat with no gratitude
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
she's trying to keep the shit together and so eric's
at work one of his congregantscomes in the father of a girl at
school who is in matt's gradeand he says my daughter has a
lot of friends who are boys butno boyfriend and i want her to
go to prom well can you ask yourson if he'll take her
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
which Can we talk about like the larger context in
rewatching this show now?
Let's just name it for thepeople is that the actor playing
Pastor Camden has since admittedto at least three instances of
child sexual abuse.
And so this scene, the other guycomes in and he's obviously
(12:09):
nervous.
He just goes straight into hispitch, which is like, I have a
question for you.
And I really hope that you canthat you can help me out.
My daughter needs a date for theprom.
And Mr.
Camden looks all flustered.
He's like, I'm not sure what youmean.
And like the bit is kind of thatat first.
Pastor Camden is like, are youasking?
Are you asking me to take yourdaughter to prom?
(12:31):
Yeah.
Which did not age well.
Not at all.
Like milk.
OK, so he's like what?
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
So he says, I don't.
Well, I don't know.
He sort of agrees at first, butthen wants to back up.
because i think he realizes idon't want to tell my son who
what to do what to do which welove we love that but love
autonomy but then the other dadis like no no no i've heard
through the high school rumormill your son is the only
remaining eligible bachelorwithout a date to the prom which
is like what the hell is kind ofrumor mill and
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
what kind of school is
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
this plugged into this
SPEAKER_00 (13:06):
no idea which is contrary to what we later hear
about his relationship with hisdaughter that they don't they
don't talk at all
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
right yeah that they hardly talk so where he getting
his info if it's not from hisdaughter his only child question
marks anyways um i guess tocontinue with that plot then
later when he comes home in theevening eric and his wife annie
have a discussion should i askmatt to take this girl connie to
(13:32):
the prom
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
connie sweet connie
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
sweet sweet connie and annie's like no we shouldn't
tell us on what to do i thinkthat's wrong love that eric is
like i agree but i'm not tellinghim i'm asking him she indicates
like Like, this is all you.
I'm not having any fun.
Go ahead, brother.
Yeah.
Do your thing, whatever.
Matt comes in.
Okay, this also is a greatinstance of if they just fucking
talked about it, we couldresolve a lot of the tension
(13:55):
right now.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
Which is fascinating because they do nothing but
talk.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:01):
But they don't talk about the important, whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
Right.
So Matt comes in.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
With his shiny, beautiful 90s boy band hair.
Shiny
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
90s boy band hair flowing in the breeze.
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
Like an Irish setter with that hair.
It's flowing.
It's lustrous.
It's like a chestnut color.
Anyway.
It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
Anyways.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
Great jawline.
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
I love the dramatic gulping sorry I'll stop Eric
then says hey what if you tookConnie to the prom and Matt's
like no I
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
don't think that's a good
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
idea I don't think that's a good idea
SPEAKER_00 (14:35):
basically I don't think you want me to take her to
the prom yeah
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
and he says I've got my reasons and this part feels
like pretty good regularteenager shit where dad is like
what she's not pretty enough foryou which that feels messed up
but then Matt immediately islike okay fine I'll take her
fine I'll do it
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
but when you find out the real reason which you
will
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
You can't be mad at me.
And
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
they're like, okay.
Right.
So that's the part.
I believe a teenager would saythat.
That was the most, yeah.
I find it very strange that hisparents' reaction was just, oh,
okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
No further questions.
For being such involved parents,the fact that they're like,
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
oh, well, I got my way, so.
What's the worst that couldhappen?
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
Okay.
And then the sisters find outwho are kind of our Greek chorus
in this experience.
in that like we turn to them tosee how the common folk feel
about this girl because they dogo to the same school yes which
how does no one know thatthey're related
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
right it must be a massive fucking school
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
yeah yeah which was your school big
SPEAKER_01 (15:39):
um I mean it wasn't enormous it was pretty big I
went to public school how manypeople like in your graduating
class my graduating class wasmaybe I don't know 200 300
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
okay so on the tinier side
SPEAKER_01 (15:52):
yeah not huge like um I went to school in Cary and
there were definitely biggerschools like in Raleigh so it
wasn't tiny like I didn't knoweverybody
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
okay anyway who's to know but I feel like you gotta
know whatever yeah it'sobviously it seems since Mary
and Lucy are always togetherlike obviously they're attached
at the hip so it's like yeahgood for Matt I guess
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
whatever I guess they're just stalking him during
the day not actually interactingwith him and any case they they
spot them chatting and theyrealize oh my god he's taking
her to prom she's the schoolslut again
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
mom and dad would never allow that if they knew
yeah and like yeah so they'resitting there being judgmental
of this girl for being a slut aharlot
SPEAKER_01 (16:42):
which we never actually find out exactly what
that means no we don't
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
and so they're judging this girl meanwhile
their subplot is that they areso desperate for dates they are
so desperate to be able to datethat when they get a phone call
on the homeland line
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
um clear plastic phone spotted by the way for
anyone who remembers thataesthetic when electronics were
made with clear plastic housingso you could see all the circuit
boards and shit inside them iloved that
SPEAKER_00 (17:12):
that was a special time i
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
loved it
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
bring it back
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
i know
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
yeah so they they get this phone call and this
guy's like hey um i'm a Andthey, no hesitations, are like,
yeah, sounds great.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
But don't
SPEAKER_00 (17:31):
tell Matt.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
He might not like it.
Yeah.
Gross.
SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
I know.
So they're all panicked.
They can't figure out who theseguys, Kyle and Casey, are.
They're weirded out, but they'relike, I'm excited.
We should invite them to ourhouse.
Yeah.
As though that's the safestoption.
So they're preparing for thesetwo random men to come to their
home.
Yeah.
for a date with them, all thewhile judging Connie for being a
(17:59):
slut.
So it just feels like, it feelslike, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah.
Well, so, and this is all theday of the prom.
So morning at school, Matt islike, Connie, will you go to
prom with me?
She says, I don't have literallyanything to wear.
He says, no problem.
My mom can sew.
Come over after school.
And within the time after schooland before prom, she will sew
you a custom
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
dress.
mom's doesn't do anything
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
yeah and she fucking does
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
she does which is you know I love a montage with
fashion yes and it's like catnipshe does do a beautiful dress
and yeah it's like my mom and mysisters are wizards at this
stuff just come over
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
yeah and they keep doing they do the montage and
she takes a nap hard he'sfucking sleeping
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
he's taking a nap the whole time
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
yeah he gets dressed in five minutes
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
yeah meanwhile this girl's getting her makeup done
by the sisters they're pickingout shirts shoes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Mom is designing and sewing a dress
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
made from curtains.
But then she finds this funlittle black faux fur fringe
piece that makes the top, likethe neckline of the dress.
It's very 90s and also makes itfashionable for the youth of
today.
A little sexy.
It's a little sexy.
Spaghetti straps?
Spaghetti straps.
(19:18):
I know.
I know.
So she makes her a bomb assdress.
Yes.
She looks great.
Without question.
Yes.
And then we have the she's allthat moment where she comes down
the stairs and it's like Matt isseeing her for the first time
it's
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
like wow she is kind of hot
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
you look beautiful and so they go to prom oh they
go to dinner they had dinnerreservations then they go to
prom and immediately before theyeven walk through the door of
the prom she sits down on abench with him and starts trying
to make out with him
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
poor Connie because she indicates that this is like
she's come to understand sex istransactional and this is what
she owes him for being nice toher and taking her out to dinner
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
I've never been to a restaurant that nice I know I
know and she's
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
like I know that it's like a hit to your
reputation you didn't have tobring me to prom at all like I
really appreciate everythingyou're doing for me so I guess I
owe you making out sex of somekind something
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
yeah basically um and he like it takes many turns
this
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
conversation it was a roller I kept I had a whiplash
like oh my god am I agreeingwith him or absolutely
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
because yeah he he's so fascinating he's like you
know we don't have to do thatlike we don't have to do
anything like that and she keepstrying to kiss him and
eventually he
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
well he launches into this speech but right
before his hideous speech he'slike you know I don't really
care what other people say theycan say what they want about me
we don't have to do anything andthen he's like we don't even
okay this is also wild he sayswe don't even know each other
which is true well do you wantto get to know each other and he
says hmm okay Let me ask aboutyour deepest trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (20:57):
Yes.
How is it living in a singlehousehold with only a dad?
That's his get to know youstarter question.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
Yeah.
Which was like, wow, bro.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
Guffaw.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
You could do a little warm up.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
You could warm it up a little.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
How do you like high school?
Right.
Like anything.
That's even a terrible
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
question.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
What do you do for fun?
What do you do?
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
What do you do when you're not fucking dudes?
Yeah.
Other than fucking every man inthe school.
What do you do for fun?
SPEAKER_00 (21:24):
right no no straight to childhood trauma
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
which she just answers yeah and it's really sad
she's like really lonely shesays her and her dad don't
really talk he hasn't educatedher about sex which again the
show seems to be coming out prosex ed because she's like it is
coming pro sex
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
ed
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
yeah which is very interesting
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
but the sex ed they're pro is with a waiting
until you're married and with aman or like in a hetero way for
sure for sure
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
um so But she also is like, she learns that her dad
keeps telling her men only wantone thing.
And so she's saying, I want guysto like me.
So why not give them the onething they want?
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
The rationale stands.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
Yeah.
Frankly.
I can see how she got there.
Yeah.
Okay.
Matt.
Take me there.
Take me there.
Now he says, have you gotten areturn on that investment?
Which is like the weirdest wayto say it.
Right.
To say like, do the guys stickaround?
Is that working for you?
Yeah.
What are you getting?
Do you like that?
Are you getting anything out ofit?
Mm-hmm.
what he asked are you getting areturn on that investment okay
(22:26):
then he gets into his evo psychbullshit yeah look all guys want
to be the pursuer it's the oldhunt and gather instinct against
a woman's old nurture instinctin relationships there's always
a giver and a taker she sayswhich i think is a good flirt so
why don't you want me to takeyou i know he says
SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
i know cute chapel round in the background
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
all this stuff is nothing make me dig deep make me
sacrifice make me work hard forit difficult okay which is gross
in its own way but then hisexample is make me go dancing i
don't like dancing that's notlike
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
well we don't know how much he hates dancing that's
true
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
but it just felt so all over the map with like it's
evolutionary psych you have tomake me dig deep you gotta make
me do something make me work forit make me work for it she like
sort of rolls her eyes which iagree with when she's like fine
let's go dance then Okay, atthis point, he pulls her back.
He makes her sit down.
He kisses her.
(23:29):
He says, make me be a gentleman,too.
He's a little brat.
SPEAKER_00 (23:34):
You old so-and-so.
Matt Camden.
He's a brat.
I know.
Make me be a gentleman?
I was like, okay, daddy.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
I don't even use that word.
I take it as like he wants herto sort of dominate him, and he
just wants to be bratty aboutit.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Yeah, which I love.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Which I think could be great for him, but is not
necessarily fitting in with hisprevious Evo psych rant.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
I know.
I
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
know.
In any case, they go dancing.
They have a wonderful eveningtogether.
We see them later in the car.
They're like making out.
They're having a great time.
They're saying we had so muchfun.
They sort of hint at thepossibility of doing something
more.
Well, because she pauses.
She pauses.
And she says, actually, I don'treally want to do anything else
right now.
(24:19):
Yes, Connie.
He says, I'm man enough to hearthe word no.
Which is...
Complicated.
Complicated.
I love the respect.
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
Yeah.
At the base of it, I love therespect.
Listen, it's the 90s.
I think that was probably thebest we could ask for on TV
about a message of a man gettinga no when he's, you know,
curious about more.
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
For young men watching the show, it models you
just accept the no.
Right.
And it's not threatening.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Even if we're like gendering the hell out of it,
being like, I'm a real man so Ican hear no.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Well, Whatever.
Fine.
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
Well, and then she sort of opens up.
Well, you know, let's take abreak and we can see how we're
both feeling later.
Yes.
We fade to black and don't seewhat else
SPEAKER_00 (25:03):
happens.
No, because he says, he says,I've got a better idea.
Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
That's right.
They go to.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
They get in the car and fade to black.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
We don't know what happens in between.
They do later show up atConnie's house and talk to her
dad a little bit.
And then he comes home.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
Okay.
This is the prude in me, Iguess.
But when he kissed her in frontof her dad.
I was shocked.
On the mouth.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
I was shocked.
For a dad who's like, I...
My precious little daughter.
My precious little daughter.
Men only want one thing.
Don't trust them.
I'm setting you up with thepastor's son because he's safe.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
And then he...
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
Just right in front of him.
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Irish setter locks in here.
Walks in.
Plants one on her.
Dad didn't say a damn thing.
In fact, she makes him teabecause women live to serve men.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
And finally they're going to talk.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
I'll tell you all about it, Dad.
Really?
Really?
How did he know the high schoolgoss?
This is...
that
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
I struggle with he is worrying yeah okay I do want
to touch on too what is going onin the Camden family home as
we're waiting for Matt to comehome between Annie and Eric
SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
well because yeah Annie being Mrs.
Camden Eric being Mr.
Camden um because they are beinghype out of their minds waiting
for their kid to come from prombecause they're like we trust
you but we actually don't trustyou so
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
yeah so they have they have this whole thing that
happens with the other kids thatMaybe we'll get into in a bonus
episode.
But at the end of the evening,they're having some dessert.
SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
Oh, wait.
Well, we do have to say thispiece.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Okay.
Say this piece.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
Is that the two boys that the sisters are excited to
be like, who are Kyle and Casey?
Oh, my God.
I'm so excited for these dates.
And it's 11-year-old twinbrothers who are friends of
Simon.
Yes.
So they weren't lying when theysaid, I'm a friend of your
brothers.
They just assumed it was Matt.
So now the whole family iswatching them on a double date
(26:53):
with twin 11-year-olds.
year olds and just kind ofsmirking the whole time
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
well and I will say too something worrying the girls
kind of jump up they try to takea chance to get out of the
living room with their motherwho sort of is like no your
punishment is you have to staywith them right and
entertainment and entertain themand that felt gross
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
right
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
I didn't like that at all
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
like you're not teaching you're not saying like
oh it's okay to like I get thelesson of like you're so
desperate to date that you'rejust like
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
but the way you do that isn't double down that's
giving it's like when people sayoh I caught you smoking a
cigarette, smoke the whole pack.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (27:27):
That's not helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (27:30):
Right.
And these boys clearly likethem.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:35):
They're earnest boys.
They're inept.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
These boys only want one thing, listener.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
They're inept, to say the least.
But anyway, later in theevening, they're having some ice
cream, like passing the time.
Okay, at a certain point, Eric,the dad, is on his third bowl of
ice cream and Annie tells him,stop.
Gaining 10 pounds won't bringMatt home any faster.
I
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
thought you liked me with a little meat on my bones.
SPEAKER_01 (28:00):
I
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
lied.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Obligatory 90s fat shaming moment.
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
Yeah, legally you have to include a fat shaming
moment in every episode oftelevision.
The FCC required it if
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
you were going to air at prime time in the 90s.
Yeah.
Which, oh my God, I couldn'tbelieve it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
Yeah, that stood out to me as well.
But also there's like, to spareyou details, there is a child's
puppet character that is an oldflame of Eric Camden's that is
coming to their house.
UNKNOWN (28:33):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (28:33):
for who knows what reason, it's like a long story
involving Ruthie realizing thatthis puppet she loves is
actually a person.
The youngest
SPEAKER_01 (28:41):
child's crisis of faith is involved with this
puppet.
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
Yes, because she realizes that there's a human
inside her favorite puppet soit's not real.
So God's not real.
So God's not real because youneed to bring in God as well
because it is a pastor's
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
family.
Yeah.
And your audio jumped out foryou.
It did.
And it doesn't want to comeback.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
Hello?
It did.
It dropped out and I'm back.
Well, And you know what?
Blasphemer.
That's probably why.
That's why you gotta smoke.
I said God ain't real.
Consider yourself smoke.
Veronica.
Thank you.
It's been taken under advisementby many.
They're in this weird dynamicwhile they're waiting for Matt
where she's feeling threatenedby the puppet woman.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
Who speaks in a baby voice the entire time.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, bonus episode for surebecause that's just there's a
lot to get into.
The little girl brings up sortof Pascal's wager when it comes
to faith.
It gets wild.
SPEAKER_00 (29:40):
Yeah, she goes deep.
Ruthie is my favorite, I think.
Credit to Ruthie.
It's a very bizarre experience.
And also this very intensebelief that to be happily in a
monogamous relationship withsomebody means that you have to
pretend they never dated anyonebefore you in order to not be
(30:00):
threatened.
So, there Where's that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Yeah, ultimate monogamy.
A timeless, monogamous choice tohave only ever had one partner.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
absolutely.
Impossible.
Impossible.
All
SPEAKER_00 (30:13):
right, wrap us up.
SPEAKER_01 (30:15):
What happens?
Wrap us up?
I mean, so Matt comes home.
Annie and Eric are asleep on thecouch, but they wake up when he
turns off the light to try andtuck them in.
He says he had a nice time, andConnie's a really nice girl, and
he actually thanks his parentsfor everything.
SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
Everything.
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
Annie and Eric are like, oh, my God, we have to
know what happened.
Annie says no.
No, no, no.
Let's wait till tomorrow.
They realize it's midnight.
They run up the stairs after
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
him.
Freeze frame.
Freeze frame.
It's the 90s.
Okay, let's talk.
Let's talk what comes next.
Let's write the epilogue.
Let's write the happy ending.
What are your wishes for theCamden family in this moment?
I
SPEAKER_01 (30:50):
mean, I wish that they would interrogate what they
think a harlot is and therampant slut shaming within
their household because Conniewas a very nice girl.
Everyone had a great time.
Sluts can be nice girls.
interacting with her she wasvery nice Matt had a nice time
he seems to really like her andI hope that they can get over
their issues because I kind ofhope Matt and Connie continue
(31:14):
seeing each other at least for awhile
SPEAKER_00 (31:15):
yeah I'm into the Matt and Connie dynamic and I
hope if anything their continuedrelationship like you know maybe
we create some sex positiveframeworks maybe we start to
realize that like oh it's okayfor women to want sex for
pleasure you know yeah Maybethat's a thing.
Wild idea.
(31:36):
Weird.
Yeah.
That being a slut ain't all bad.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
It's fun, dude.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
Right.
Now, the way they pitch it isvery reductive.
That she's only being slutty,quote unquote, because she wants
men to like her.
And it's more about giving themwhat they want.
And she is not receiving anysort of pleasure in return.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
No return on investment.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
No ROI there.
So, you know, I want her to be aslut and get her some.
For her.
For her.
a slut for her
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
yeah that's my hope I hope that Mrs.
Camden gets a fucking thank youcard seriously we in the course
of this episode see this womannavigate five different crises
between children we see her makea dress in three hours with zero
support from the person askingher to do it correct we see her
(32:26):
instruct Mr.
Camden on how to have aconversation with his son when I
don't know maybe that's his jobhmm As a pastor is to have
conversations with people allday long.
We see her be expected to havemade dinner by Simon.
And clean it up.
And clean it up.
SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
She makes a lasagna from scratch.
Because it's Ruthie's favorite.
After she's trying desperatelyto get these damn tickets to the
little puppet show for Ruthie.
SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
And then the puppet herself shows up.
And Mr.
Camden says, there's always roomfor one more, right?
SPEAKER_01 (32:57):
What's one more?
When you're hand making alasagna.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
You haven't.
SPEAKER_01 (33:01):
I could have killed him.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
You haven't.
Yeah, I haven't.
haven't even checked in with youand I haven't made any moves to
help so Mrs.
Camden is the backbone of thefamily obviously and no one and
that's her job apparentlyaccording to them so delightful
my wish for her is a break and amama sans I want her to have her
own I want her to get her grooveback agree I want to see this
(33:26):
monkey video and see why it wassuch a thing I know so that's my
wish for her Where
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
can the people find us, Veronica?
SPEAKER_00 (33:35):
They can find us on the internet, Blair.
In
SPEAKER_01 (33:38):
their
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
DMs.
While this is a personal,
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
please listen to our podcast and give us feedback
podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
Yes.
This is a trial podcast.
We want your feedback, dearlistener, on if we are funny
enough to keep making these.
That's the real question.
Do we thread the needle betweenhilarity and insight?
SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
Yeah.
Give us your thoughts.
SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
Thank you for listening.
And we...
Can't wait to hear what youthink.
Bye-bye.
Catch you next time.
Thank you for listening to ourvery first episode of Mom's Not
Home Till 6.
We hope that you enjoyed andcan't wait to hear your
feedback.
Give us a ring and make sure youswitch the TV channel back to
something appropriate.
(34:21):
Catch you next time.
Hey you! Come on over.
Mom's not home till 6 and we'reexploring the TV and movies that
made you turn down the volume soyour parents wouldn't hear.
We're going to build ourintimacy literacy and dig into
all the weird messages we tookfrom pop culture about sex,
relationships, and ourselves.
Because, let's be honest, thiswas all the sex ed we got.
(00:24):
Today, we are discussing acompletely unhinged episode of
7th Heaven.
I am joined by Blake They are arelationship therapist
specializing in gender andsexuality and absolutely the one
most likely to sew a prom dresswith five minutes remaining.
SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
Oh my god, incredible.
And I'm joined by Veronica,local harlot about town.
She's a sexuality educator,coach, and intimacy director for
theater.
Today we're going to talk alittle bit about the Like a
Harlot unhinged episode ofSeventh Heaven.
This was episode 20 of season 2.
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Blair, can you tell us what Seventh Heaven even is?
I'm
SPEAKER_01 (01:10):
so glad you asked because I wrote down the show
description.
Please.
Because I have never seen itbefore we watched it for this
and wow.
It's something.
So the description is prettyshort.
Seventh Heaven centers aroundthe Camden family consisting of
Minister Dad Eric, Homemaker MomAnnie, and their five kids Matt,
Mary, Lucy, Simon, and Ruthie.
(01:31):
The family, along with theiradorable dog, Happy, lives in
Glen Oak, California.
The series chronicles the manycomplex issues of growing up in
the world today.
And that's the show.
This episode's short descriptionwas Mary and Lucy set themselves
up for disastrous dates, andEric unwittingly fixes his son
up with the senior slut.
(01:54):
I'm a little surprised that theywere allowed to put slut in the
description.
SPEAKER_00 (01:58):
I know.
They never use that word in theepisode.
SPEAKER_01 (02:00):
No.
They don't actually.
actually say slut at any pointduring the show
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
listener if you've never seen an episode of seventh
heaven uh obviously you weren'twatching uh probably the cw or
fox family uh after schoolspecial times um and i just need
you to know that this showexists in the world where
there's lots of instrumentalmusic that takes place to
(02:27):
transition us from scene toscene telling us how to feel and
making the dialogue seem wiserthan it actually is so just go
there with us to the year 1996because that's when this bad boy
started okay thank you i justneeded us to you know what let's
put in some like little flavoremotional guitar in the
background of this recording toreally give the people what they
(02:50):
need to know
SPEAKER_01 (02:52):
about the vibes okay i actually need you to record
your singing because i've beenhearing you sing the theme song
multiple
SPEAKER_00 (02:57):
times and it's for my version is seventh heaven as
sung by garth brooks yeah it'slike when i see the happy faces
smiling back at me i didn't knowi knew all those words but i but
i do okay so take us there blair
SPEAKER_01 (03:17):
all right let's take us there we'll just get into the
beginning because this is alittle taste test pancake of an
episode so it opens straightinto the action zoomed close in
on mom's face in the shocked meand unsettled me a little bit I
wasn't ready to be that close toanyone
SPEAKER_00 (03:36):
as soon as it started it does start with a
close up and it's cold openthere's no intro at first
SPEAKER_01 (03:42):
cold open frigid two kids Simon the youngest son and
his friend Kyle come in theykick their mom out of the
kitchen because they need to bealone after a hard day at school
SPEAKER_00 (03:53):
yeah they seem traumatized by something that
has happened at school
SPEAKER_01 (03:56):
something mysterious has happened at school mom asks
no questions just leaves.
She's like, oh, okay.
I'll get out of your way.
I'll get out of your way.
SPEAKER_00 (04:05):
I wasn't cooking dinner for a family of 18,000.
I
SPEAKER_01 (04:08):
wasn't making lasagna from scratch, which we
see later in the episode.
Surprising.
SPEAKER_00 (04:12):
Ruthie's favorite.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
She does leave.
They start talking about amysterious video they saw in
health class.
They say, today our lives arechanged forever.
Forever.
Yes.
The implication, and they usethis language later, but not in
this scene, is that now they'vebecome men.
Now that they've in this videowhich they call the film it's
(04:35):
like when a girl monkey meets aboy monkey
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
it seems like it was a sex ed video explaining mating
but instead of talking abouthuman mating they use a video of
monkeys
SPEAKER_01 (04:49):
having sex yes well and here's a little it seems a
little inconsistent to me itsurprised me because Simon is
very anti this video he's pissedoff by it he hates it so
Something should be left to theimagination.
SPEAKER_00 (05:03):
Yeah he's very old school.
Geographic.
He's very old school.
SPEAKER_01 (05:06):
But he is also the one who says my parents have had
a million talks with me.
They're constantly like talkingwith me about sex and like
relationships and he keepssaying like well I don't want to
have another one with them.
The other kid Kyle is the onewho seems a little intrigued by
(05:27):
the video.
Sure.
And he says like really yourparents talk to you about sex.
My parents have never talked tome about sex.
Not once.
SPEAKER_00 (05:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (05:38):
So that felt interesting because I would have
expected the kid who like Idon't know, is used to talking
about sex.
The pastor's son.
Yeah.
The kid who's used to talkingabout sex surprises me.
It's the pastor's son.
And also that he's like, yeah, Ihate this.
Not like, I mean, I already knowthis, whatever.
Why is he so traumatized if healready knew a lot of
SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
it?
Well, I imagine that theconversations he's had with
Pastor Camden and his motherwas...
not so much about the finedetails as it is about like when
a man loves a woman very muchand they've thought about it and
they've gotten married rightlike that's the talk that the
(06:23):
Camdens are giving their kidsthey're not giving their kids
like here is and maybe like thescience of reproduction but
there seems like there'ssomething difficult about this
video of monkeys literallyhaving sex on the screen yeah
which is I'm fascinated by theschool system, that they're bold
enough to show these kids videosof monkeys having sex on screen,
(06:44):
but are too uncomfortable toactually teach kids about sex
between humans.
Sans video.
Yes.
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
Well, and in the same plot line, so this is one
of the major plot lines of thisepisode.
Toward the end of the episode,the pastor father finally does
corner this kid and is like,well, we are obviously going to
talk about the movie you've seenat school.
Right.
What interested me when they didhave like a little hint of a
talk about it was Simon wasdirect and said like, we're
(07:16):
talking about sex like all thetime or the school talked about
sex.
He says the word sex.
Yes.
The dad is really hesitant andtalked around it.
And he was like, well, you know,some kids only learn what the
school teaches you about men andwomen.
He doesn't say sex.
And I thought that was reallyinteresting that his young son
(07:37):
who was heavily a of thisdiscussion was a lot more direct
than he actually was
SPEAKER_00 (07:42):
right and the fact that he just says men and women
which first second of all secondof all I feel like that's if
that's the teaser of theconversation we're getting
between Reverend Camden andSimon as like his style of
talking about sex I imagine alot of this video was probably
new for Simon
SPEAKER_01 (08:01):
right that's why it's like it doesn't add up
because if they've had a lot ofdetailed discussions about sex
that yeah it just seems soincongruent and strange
SPEAKER_00 (08:11):
yeah it's and Simon is so old school yeah he's like
what happened to romance whathappened to nice dates and
flowers is nobody a romanticanymore I'm like it just feels
like I don't know what theshowrunner's messaging is is it
to just display every singleoption of how people might feel
(08:32):
about sex
SPEAKER_01 (08:33):
I don't
SPEAKER_00 (08:34):
know because it didn't seem
SPEAKER_01 (08:35):
confusing
SPEAKER_00 (08:36):
I didn't know what the message was I
SPEAKER_01 (08:37):
didn't get the clear message moral message I needed
from Seventh Heaven on this one.
How am I supposed
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
to feel?
Seventh Heaven's the only sex edI got.
I
SPEAKER_01 (08:44):
didn't get the monkey video.
SPEAKER_00 (08:47):
I got Seventh Heaven.
I got men
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
and women from Revan Camden.
Okay, so this brings us to theother, like the primary plot of
the episode has to do with thesenior prom.
SPEAKER_00 (08:59):
Big day.
It's the big day also.
It's
SPEAKER_01 (09:03):
like literally the day before prom when this
begins.
SPEAKER_00 (09:06):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (09:06):
And then prom day is is
SPEAKER_00 (09:09):
how was your prom experience that way people were
talking about and planning forprom for like months
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
yes because they announced the theme and then you
want to figure out who you'regoing with or if you're going at
all I did not go spoiler alert
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
no I went with all of my pals I went to a Catholic
all girls high school and werented a school bus because we
were those hipster kids it'sfine it was 2007 we rented a
school bus and it was a bunch ofnerdy hipster theater kids
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
nice
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
yeah
SPEAKER_01 (09:43):
that sounds fun
SPEAKER_00 (09:44):
it was yeah but we had to start planning eons in
advance gotta rent the schoolbus you gotta figure out that
you're renting yourtransportation so the fact that
Matt Camden heartthrob amongstus by the way we can talk about
that as we go I mean I think Ithought he was hot when I was a
(10:05):
kid but in this rewatch I'm likeokay Matt camden i see you uh he
is like oh i'm not gonna gobecause it's a couple thing yeah
so i'm not a couple yeahapparently at this school
couples are the only peoplegoing to prom apparently we
haven't evolved yet to the pointthat groups of friends go
together and
SPEAKER_01 (10:23):
except for the fact that his sisters are saying i
hope that he doesn't have a datebecause then he'll have to take
one of us and no one at schoolknows we're related
SPEAKER_00 (10:33):
there's a very and this is not i hate to break it
to you yes this is an audiomedium.
Blair's eyes just got so big.
I hate to break this to you,Blair.
I'll hold your hand when I saythis.
This is not the first time thatthere's a weird romantic
undertone between the daughtersand Matt.
(10:54):
There's another scene that'sabout, I think it's Mary's first
kiss.
SPEAKER_01 (10:58):
Where
SPEAKER_00 (11:00):
I think she almost asks if he'll practice on her.
I know.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Somebody email me about this.
I think that that's what happensso anyway there's weird
undertones gulp uh yeah soanyway so it's the day before
prom what happens it's
SPEAKER_01 (11:20):
the day before prom
SPEAKER_00 (11:22):
and poor mrs camden is trying to keep this family
afloat with no gratitude
SPEAKER_01 (11:26):
she's trying to keep the shit together and so eric's
at work one of his congregantscomes in the father of a girl at
school who is in matt's gradeand he says my daughter has a
lot of friends who are boys butno boyfriend and i want her to
go to prom well can you ask yourson if he'll take her
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
which Can we talk about like the larger context in
rewatching this show now?
Let's just name it for thepeople is that the actor playing
Pastor Camden has since admittedto at least three instances of
child sexual abuse.
And so this scene, the other guycomes in and he's obviously
(12:09):
nervous.
He just goes straight into hispitch, which is like, I have a
question for you.
And I really hope that you canthat you can help me out.
My daughter needs a date for theprom.
And Mr.
Camden looks all flustered.
He's like, I'm not sure what youmean.
And like the bit is kind of thatat first.
Pastor Camden is like, are youasking?
Are you asking me to take yourdaughter to prom?
(12:31):
Yeah.
Which did not age well.
Not at all.
Like milk.
OK, so he's like what?
SPEAKER_01 (12:40):
So he says, I don't.
Well, I don't know.
He sort of agrees at first, butthen wants to back up.
because i think he realizes idon't want to tell my son who
what to do what to do which welove we love that but love
autonomy but then the other dadis like no no no i've heard
through the high school rumormill your son is the only
remaining eligible bachelorwithout a date to the prom which
is like what the hell is kind ofrumor mill and
SPEAKER_00 (13:03):
what kind of school is
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
this plugged into this
SPEAKER_00 (13:06):
no idea which is contrary to what we later hear
about his relationship with hisdaughter that they don't they
don't talk at all
SPEAKER_01 (13:11):
right yeah that they hardly talk so where he getting
his info if it's not from hisdaughter his only child question
marks anyways um i guess tocontinue with that plot then
later when he comes home in theevening eric and his wife annie
have a discussion should i askmatt to take this girl connie to
(13:32):
the prom
SPEAKER_00 (13:33):
connie sweet connie
SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
sweet sweet connie and annie's like no we shouldn't
tell us on what to do i thinkthat's wrong love that eric is
like i agree but i'm not tellinghim i'm asking him she indicates
like Like, this is all you.
I'm not having any fun.
Go ahead, brother.
Yeah.
Do your thing, whatever.
Matt comes in.
Okay, this also is a greatinstance of if they just fucking
talked about it, we couldresolve a lot of the tension
(13:55):
right now.
SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
Which is fascinating because they do nothing but
talk.
SPEAKER_01 (14:00):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:01):
But they don't talk about the important, whatever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:02):
Right.
So Matt comes in.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
With his shiny, beautiful 90s boy band hair.
Shiny
SPEAKER_01 (14:08):
90s boy band hair flowing in the breeze.
SPEAKER_00 (14:10):
Like an Irish setter with that hair.
It's flowing.
It's lustrous.
It's like a chestnut color.
Anyway.
It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01 (14:20):
Anyways.
SPEAKER_00 (14:21):
Great jawline.
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
I love the dramatic gulping sorry I'll stop Eric
then says hey what if you tookConnie to the prom and Matt's
like no I
SPEAKER_00 (14:33):
don't think that's a good
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
idea I don't think that's a good idea
SPEAKER_00 (14:35):
basically I don't think you want me to take her to
the prom yeah
SPEAKER_01 (14:38):
and he says I've got my reasons and this part feels
like pretty good regularteenager shit where dad is like
what she's not pretty enough foryou which that feels messed up
but then Matt immediately islike okay fine I'll take her
fine I'll do it
SPEAKER_00 (14:51):
but when you find out the real reason which you
will
SPEAKER_01 (14:54):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (14:55):
You can't be mad at me.
And
SPEAKER_01 (14:56):
they're like, okay.
Right.
So that's the part.
I believe a teenager would saythat.
That was the most, yeah.
I find it very strange that hisparents' reaction was just, oh,
okay.
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
No further questions.
For being such involved parents,the fact that they're like,
SPEAKER_01 (15:14):
oh, well, I got my way, so.
What's the worst that couldhappen?
SPEAKER_00 (15:19):
Okay.
And then the sisters find outwho are kind of our Greek chorus
in this experience.
in that like we turn to them tosee how the common folk feel
about this girl because they dogo to the same school yes which
how does no one know thatthey're related
SPEAKER_01 (15:34):
right it must be a massive fucking school
SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
yeah yeah which was your school big
SPEAKER_01 (15:39):
um I mean it wasn't enormous it was pretty big I
went to public school how manypeople like in your graduating
class my graduating class wasmaybe I don't know 200 300
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
okay so on the tinier side
SPEAKER_01 (15:52):
yeah not huge like um I went to school in Cary and
there were definitely biggerschools like in Raleigh so it
wasn't tiny like I didn't knoweverybody
SPEAKER_00 (16:03):
okay anyway who's to know but I feel like you gotta
know whatever yeah it'sobviously it seems since Mary
and Lucy are always togetherlike obviously they're attached
at the hip so it's like yeahgood for Matt I guess
SPEAKER_01 (16:21):
whatever I guess they're just stalking him during
the day not actually interactingwith him and any case they they
spot them chatting and theyrealize oh my god he's taking
her to prom she's the schoolslut again
SPEAKER_00 (16:32):
mom and dad would never allow that if they knew
yeah and like yeah so they'resitting there being judgmental
of this girl for being a slut aharlot
SPEAKER_01 (16:42):
which we never actually find out exactly what
that means no we don't
SPEAKER_00 (16:48):
and so they're judging this girl meanwhile
their subplot is that they areso desperate for dates they are
so desperate to be able to datethat when they get a phone call
on the homeland line
SPEAKER_01 (17:00):
um clear plastic phone spotted by the way for
anyone who remembers thataesthetic when electronics were
made with clear plastic housingso you could see all the circuit
boards and shit inside them iloved that
SPEAKER_00 (17:12):
that was a special time i
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
loved it
SPEAKER_00 (17:15):
bring it back
SPEAKER_01 (17:16):
i know
SPEAKER_00 (17:16):
yeah so they they get this phone call and this
guy's like hey um i'm a Andthey, no hesitations, are like,
yeah, sounds great.
SPEAKER_01 (17:31):
But don't
SPEAKER_00 (17:31):
tell Matt.
SPEAKER_01 (17:32):
He might not like it.
Yeah.
Gross.
SPEAKER_00 (17:37):
I know.
So they're all panicked.
They can't figure out who theseguys, Kyle and Casey, are.
They're weirded out, but they'relike, I'm excited.
We should invite them to ourhouse.
Yeah.
As though that's the safestoption.
So they're preparing for thesetwo random men to come to their
home.
Yeah.
for a date with them, all thewhile judging Connie for being a
(17:59):
slut.
So it just feels like, it feelslike, you know?
SPEAKER_01 (18:06):
Yeah.
Well, so, and this is all theday of the prom.
So morning at school, Matt islike, Connie, will you go to
prom with me?
She says, I don't have literallyanything to wear.
He says, no problem.
My mom can sew.
Come over after school.
And within the time after schooland before prom, she will sew
you a custom
SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
dress.
mom's doesn't do anything
SPEAKER_01 (18:26):
yeah and she fucking does
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
she does which is you know I love a montage with
fashion yes and it's like catnipshe does do a beautiful dress
and yeah it's like my mom and mysisters are wizards at this
stuff just come over
SPEAKER_01 (18:40):
yeah and they keep doing they do the montage and
she takes a nap hard he'sfucking sleeping
SPEAKER_00 (18:45):
he's taking a nap the whole time
SPEAKER_01 (18:47):
yeah he gets dressed in five minutes
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
yeah meanwhile this girl's getting her makeup done
by the sisters they're pickingout shirts shoes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:55):
Mom is designing and sewing a dress
SPEAKER_00 (18:57):
made from curtains.
But then she finds this funlittle black faux fur fringe
piece that makes the top, likethe neckline of the dress.
It's very 90s and also makes itfashionable for the youth of
today.
A little sexy.
It's a little sexy.
Spaghetti straps?
Spaghetti straps.
(19:18):
I know.
I know.
So she makes her a bomb assdress.
Yes.
She looks great.
Without question.
Yes.
And then we have the she's allthat moment where she comes down
the stairs and it's like Matt isseeing her for the first time
it's
SPEAKER_01 (19:32):
like wow she is kind of hot
SPEAKER_00 (19:34):
you look beautiful and so they go to prom oh they
go to dinner they had dinnerreservations then they go to
prom and immediately before theyeven walk through the door of
the prom she sits down on abench with him and starts trying
to make out with him
SPEAKER_01 (19:46):
poor Connie because she indicates that this is like
she's come to understand sex istransactional and this is what
she owes him for being nice toher and taking her out to dinner
SPEAKER_00 (19:55):
I've never been to a restaurant that nice I know I
know and she's
SPEAKER_01 (19:59):
like I know that it's like a hit to your
reputation you didn't have tobring me to prom at all like I
really appreciate everythingyou're doing for me so I guess I
owe you making out sex of somekind something
SPEAKER_00 (20:09):
yeah basically um and he like it takes many turns
this
SPEAKER_01 (20:16):
conversation it was a roller I kept I had a whiplash
like oh my god am I agreeingwith him or absolutely
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
because yeah he he's so fascinating he's like you
know we don't have to do thatlike we don't have to do
anything like that and she keepstrying to kiss him and
eventually he
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
well he launches into this speech but right
before his hideous speech he'slike you know I don't really
care what other people say theycan say what they want about me
we don't have to do anything andthen he's like we don't even
okay this is also wild he sayswe don't even know each other
which is true well do you wantto get to know each other and he
says hmm okay Let me ask aboutyour deepest trauma.
SPEAKER_00 (20:57):
Yes.
How is it living in a singlehousehold with only a dad?
That's his get to know youstarter question.
SPEAKER_01 (21:04):
Yeah.
Which was like, wow, bro.
SPEAKER_00 (21:06):
Guffaw.
SPEAKER_01 (21:07):
Yeah.
Unbelievable.
You could do a little warm up.
SPEAKER_00 (21:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:12):
You could warm it up a little.
SPEAKER_00 (21:13):
How do you like high school?
Right.
Like anything.
That's even a terrible
SPEAKER_01 (21:16):
question.
SPEAKER_00 (21:17):
What do you do for fun?
What do you do?
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
What do you do when you're not fucking dudes?
Yeah.
Other than fucking every man inthe school.
What do you do for fun?
SPEAKER_00 (21:24):
right no no straight to childhood trauma
SPEAKER_01 (21:28):
which she just answers yeah and it's really sad
she's like really lonely shesays her and her dad don't
really talk he hasn't educatedher about sex which again the
show seems to be coming out prosex ed because she's like it is
coming pro sex
SPEAKER_00 (21:40):
ed
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
yeah which is very interesting
SPEAKER_00 (21:43):
but the sex ed they're pro is with a waiting
until you're married and with aman or like in a hetero way for
sure for sure
SPEAKER_01 (21:53):
um so But she also is like, she learns that her dad
keeps telling her men only wantone thing.
And so she's saying, I want guysto like me.
So why not give them the onething they want?
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
The rationale stands.
SPEAKER_01 (22:06):
Yeah.
Frankly.
I can see how she got there.
Yeah.
Okay.
Matt.
Take me there.
Take me there.
Now he says, have you gotten areturn on that investment?
Which is like the weirdest wayto say it.
Right.
To say like, do the guys stickaround?
Is that working for you?
Yeah.
What are you getting?
Do you like that?
Are you getting anything out ofit?
Mm-hmm.
what he asked are you getting areturn on that investment okay
(22:26):
then he gets into his evo psychbullshit yeah look all guys want
to be the pursuer it's the oldhunt and gather instinct against
a woman's old nurture instinctin relationships there's always
a giver and a taker she sayswhich i think is a good flirt so
why don't you want me to takeyou i know he says
SPEAKER_00 (22:46):
i know cute chapel round in the background
SPEAKER_01 (22:48):
all this stuff is nothing make me dig deep make me
sacrifice make me work hard forit difficult okay which is gross
in its own way but then hisexample is make me go dancing i
don't like dancing that's notlike
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
well we don't know how much he hates dancing that's
true
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
but it just felt so all over the map with like it's
evolutionary psych you have tomake me dig deep you gotta make
me do something make me work forit make me work for it she like
sort of rolls her eyes which iagree with when she's like fine
let's go dance then Okay, atthis point, he pulls her back.
He makes her sit down.
He kisses her.
(23:29):
He says, make me be a gentleman,too.
He's a little brat.
SPEAKER_00 (23:34):
You old so-and-so.
Matt Camden.
He's a brat.
I know.
Make me be a gentleman?
I was like, okay, daddy.
SPEAKER_01 (23:42):
I don't even use that word.
I take it as like he wants herto sort of dominate him, and he
just wants to be bratty aboutit.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
Yeah, which I love.
SPEAKER_01 (23:52):
Which I think could be great for him, but is not
necessarily fitting in with hisprevious Evo psych rant.
SPEAKER_00 (23:58):
I know.
I
SPEAKER_01 (23:59):
know.
In any case, they go dancing.
They have a wonderful eveningtogether.
We see them later in the car.
They're like making out.
They're having a great time.
They're saying we had so muchfun.
They sort of hint at thepossibility of doing something
more.
Well, because she pauses.
She pauses.
And she says, actually, I don'treally want to do anything else
right now.
(24:19):
Yes, Connie.
He says, I'm man enough to hearthe word no.
Which is...
Complicated.
Complicated.
I love the respect.
SPEAKER_00 (24:29):
Yeah.
At the base of it, I love therespect.
Listen, it's the 90s.
I think that was probably thebest we could ask for on TV
about a message of a man gettinga no when he's, you know,
curious about more.
SPEAKER_01 (24:43):
For young men watching the show, it models you
just accept the no.
Right.
And it's not threatening.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
Even if we're like gendering the hell out of it,
being like, I'm a real man so Ican hear no.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
Well, Whatever.
Fine.
SPEAKER_01 (24:55):
Well, and then she sort of opens up.
Well, you know, let's take abreak and we can see how we're
both feeling later.
Yes.
We fade to black and don't seewhat else
SPEAKER_00 (25:03):
happens.
No, because he says, he says,I've got a better idea.
Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_01 (25:07):
That's right.
They go to.
SPEAKER_00 (25:08):
They get in the car and fade to black.
SPEAKER_01 (25:10):
We don't know what happens in between.
They do later show up atConnie's house and talk to her
dad a little bit.
And then he comes home.
SPEAKER_00 (25:17):
Okay.
This is the prude in me, Iguess.
But when he kissed her in frontof her dad.
I was shocked.
On the mouth.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
I was shocked.
For a dad who's like, I...
My precious little daughter.
My precious little daughter.
Men only want one thing.
Don't trust them.
I'm setting you up with thepastor's son because he's safe.
SPEAKER_00 (25:34):
And then he...
SPEAKER_01 (25:35):
Just right in front of him.
SPEAKER_00 (25:36):
Irish setter locks in here.
Walks in.
Plants one on her.
Dad didn't say a damn thing.
In fact, she makes him teabecause women live to serve men.
SPEAKER_01 (25:45):
And finally they're going to talk.
SPEAKER_00 (25:47):
I'll tell you all about it, Dad.
Really?
Really?
How did he know the high schoolgoss?
This is...
that
SPEAKER_01 (25:54):
I struggle with he is worrying yeah okay I do want
to touch on too what is going onin the Camden family home as
we're waiting for Matt to comehome between Annie and Eric
SPEAKER_00 (26:08):
well because yeah Annie being Mrs.
Camden Eric being Mr.
Camden um because they are beinghype out of their minds waiting
for their kid to come from prombecause they're like we trust
you but we actually don't trustyou so
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
yeah so they have they have this whole thing that
happens with the other kids thatMaybe we'll get into in a bonus
episode.
But at the end of the evening,they're having some dessert.
SPEAKER_00 (26:30):
Oh, wait.
Well, we do have to say thispiece.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
Okay.
Say this piece.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
Is that the two boys that the sisters are excited to
be like, who are Kyle and Casey?
Oh, my God.
I'm so excited for these dates.
And it's 11-year-old twinbrothers who are friends of
Simon.
Yes.
So they weren't lying when theysaid, I'm a friend of your
brothers.
They just assumed it was Matt.
So now the whole family iswatching them on a double date
(26:53):
with twin 11-year-olds.
year olds and just kind ofsmirking the whole time
SPEAKER_01 (26:57):
well and I will say too something worrying the girls
kind of jump up they try to takea chance to get out of the
living room with their motherwho sort of is like no your
punishment is you have to staywith them right and
entertainment and entertain themand that felt gross
SPEAKER_00 (27:11):
right
SPEAKER_01 (27:12):
I didn't like that at all
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
like you're not teaching you're not saying like
oh it's okay to like I get thelesson of like you're so
desperate to date that you'rejust like
SPEAKER_01 (27:20):
but the way you do that isn't double down that's
giving it's like when people sayoh I caught you smoking a
cigarette, smoke the whole pack.
SPEAKER_00 (27:26):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (27:27):
That's not helpful.
SPEAKER_00 (27:30):
Right.
And these boys clearly likethem.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:35):
They're earnest boys.
They're inept.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
These boys only want one thing, listener.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
They're inept, to say the least.
But anyway, later in theevening, they're having some ice
cream, like passing the time.
Okay, at a certain point, Eric,the dad, is on his third bowl of
ice cream and Annie tells him,stop.
Gaining 10 pounds won't bringMatt home any faster.
I
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
thought you liked me with a little meat on my bones.
SPEAKER_01 (28:00):
I
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
lied.
SPEAKER_01 (28:03):
Obligatory 90s fat shaming moment.
SPEAKER_00 (28:06):
Yeah, legally you have to include a fat shaming
moment in every episode oftelevision.
The FCC required it if
SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
you were going to air at prime time in the 90s.
Yeah.
Which, oh my God, I couldn'tbelieve it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:20):
Yeah, that stood out to me as well.
But also there's like, to spareyou details, there is a child's
puppet character that is an oldflame of Eric Camden's that is
coming to their house.
UNKNOWN (28:33):
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_00 (28:33):
for who knows what reason, it's like a long story
involving Ruthie realizing thatthis puppet she loves is
actually a person.
The youngest
SPEAKER_01 (28:41):
child's crisis of faith is involved with this
puppet.
SPEAKER_00 (28:44):
Yes, because she realizes that there's a human
inside her favorite puppet soit's not real.
So God's not real.
So God's not real because youneed to bring in God as well
because it is a pastor's
SPEAKER_01 (28:53):
family.
Yeah.
And your audio jumped out foryou.
It did.
And it doesn't want to comeback.
SPEAKER_00 (29:00):
Hello?
It did.
It dropped out and I'm back.
Well, And you know what?
Blasphemer.
That's probably why.
That's why you gotta smoke.
I said God ain't real.
Consider yourself smoke.
Veronica.
Thank you.
It's been taken under advisementby many.
They're in this weird dynamicwhile they're waiting for Matt
where she's feeling threatenedby the puppet woman.
SPEAKER_01 (29:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
Who speaks in a baby voice the entire time.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, bonus episode for surebecause that's just there's a
lot to get into.
The little girl brings up sortof Pascal's wager when it comes
to faith.
It gets wild.
SPEAKER_00 (29:40):
Yeah, she goes deep.
Ruthie is my favorite, I think.
Credit to Ruthie.
It's a very bizarre experience.
And also this very intensebelief that to be happily in a
monogamous relationship withsomebody means that you have to
pretend they never dated anyonebefore you in order to not be
(30:00):
threatened.
So, there Where's that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Yeah, ultimate monogamy.
A timeless, monogamous choice tohave only ever had one partner.
SPEAKER_00 (30:10):
Yeah,
SPEAKER_01 (30:10):
absolutely.
Impossible.
Impossible.
All
SPEAKER_00 (30:13):
right, wrap us up.
SPEAKER_01 (30:15):
What happens?
Wrap us up?
I mean, so Matt comes home.
Annie and Eric are asleep on thecouch, but they wake up when he
turns off the light to try andtuck them in.
He says he had a nice time, andConnie's a really nice girl, and
he actually thanks his parentsfor everything.
SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
Everything.
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
Annie and Eric are like, oh, my God, we have to
know what happened.
Annie says no.
No, no, no.
Let's wait till tomorrow.
They realize it's midnight.
They run up the stairs after
SPEAKER_00 (30:38):
him.
Freeze frame.
Freeze frame.
It's the 90s.
Okay, let's talk.
Let's talk what comes next.
Let's write the epilogue.
Let's write the happy ending.
What are your wishes for theCamden family in this moment?
I
SPEAKER_01 (30:50):
mean, I wish that they would interrogate what they
think a harlot is and therampant slut shaming within
their household because Conniewas a very nice girl.
Everyone had a great time.
Sluts can be nice girls.
interacting with her she wasvery nice Matt had a nice time
he seems to really like her andI hope that they can get over
their issues because I kind ofhope Matt and Connie continue
(31:14):
seeing each other at least for awhile
SPEAKER_00 (31:15):
yeah I'm into the Matt and Connie dynamic and I
hope if anything their continuedrelationship like you know maybe
we create some sex positiveframeworks maybe we start to
realize that like oh it's okayfor women to want sex for
pleasure you know yeah Maybethat's a thing.
Wild idea.
(31:36):
Weird.
Yeah.
That being a slut ain't all bad.
SPEAKER_01 (31:40):
It's fun, dude.
SPEAKER_00 (31:41):
Right.
Now, the way they pitch it isvery reductive.
That she's only being slutty,quote unquote, because she wants
men to like her.
And it's more about giving themwhat they want.
And she is not receiving anysort of pleasure in return.
SPEAKER_01 (31:56):
No return on investment.
SPEAKER_00 (31:57):
No ROI there.
So, you know, I want her to be aslut and get her some.
For her.
For her.
a slut for her
SPEAKER_01 (32:04):
yeah
SPEAKER_00 (32:05):
yeah that's my hope I hope that Mrs.
Camden gets a fucking thank youcard seriously we in the course
of this episode see this womannavigate five different crises
between children we see her makea dress in three hours with zero
support from the person askingher to do it correct we see her
(32:26):
instruct Mr.
Camden on how to have aconversation with his son when I
don't know maybe that's his jobhmm As a pastor is to have
conversations with people allday long.
We see her be expected to havemade dinner by Simon.
And clean it up.
And clean it up.
SPEAKER_01 (32:44):
She makes a lasagna from scratch.
Because it's Ruthie's favorite.
After she's trying desperatelyto get these damn tickets to the
little puppet show for Ruthie.
SPEAKER_00 (32:52):
And then the puppet herself shows up.
And Mr.
Camden says, there's always roomfor one more, right?
SPEAKER_01 (32:57):
What's one more?
When you're hand making alasagna.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
You haven't.
SPEAKER_01 (33:01):
I could have killed him.
SPEAKER_00 (33:02):
You haven't.
Yeah, I haven't.
haven't even checked in with youand I haven't made any moves to
help so Mrs.
Camden is the backbone of thefamily obviously and no one and
that's her job apparentlyaccording to them so delightful
my wish for her is a break and amama sans I want her to have her
own I want her to get her grooveback agree I want to see this
(33:26):
monkey video and see why it wassuch a thing I know so that's my
wish for her Where
SPEAKER_01 (33:33):
can the people find us, Veronica?
SPEAKER_00 (33:35):
They can find us on the internet, Blair.
In
SPEAKER_01 (33:38):
their
SPEAKER_00 (33:38):
DMs.
While this is a personal,
SPEAKER_01 (33:41):
please listen to our podcast and give us feedback
podcast.
SPEAKER_00 (33:43):
Yes.
This is a trial podcast.
We want your feedback, dearlistener, on if we are funny
enough to keep making these.
That's the real question.
Do we thread the needle betweenhilarity and insight?
SPEAKER_01 (33:59):
Yeah.
Give us your thoughts.
SPEAKER_00 (34:01):
Thank you for listening.
And we...
Can't wait to hear what youthink.
Bye-bye.
Catch you next time.
Thank you for listening to ourvery first episode of Mom's Not
Home Till 6.
We hope that you enjoyed andcan't wait to hear your
feedback.
Give us a ring and make sure youswitch the TV channel back to
something appropriate.
(34:21):
Catch you next time.
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