November 6, 2024 • 33 mins
Join me, Kim Chapman, as I engage in an enlightening conversation with Leslie Tayne, a veteran debt attorney with over two decades of experience in navigating the complicated world of debt management. Ever wondered why quick fixes for debt are often too good to be true? Leslie helps unravel this mystery, revealing why each financial dilemma requires a tailored approach and highlighting the critical role of budgeting in avoiding the debt trap. Our discussion also sheds light on the precarious reliance on credit by individuals and small businesses, often leading to spiraling debt issues, and explores the serious implications of bankruptcy as a necessary but consequential option.
We then transition into a thorough examination of strategies like debt settlement, consolidation, and refinancing. Leslie offers her expert insights, warning of the pitfalls of debt consolidation loans and the importance of maintaining stellar credit for refinancing. She stresses the value of professional guidance from a debt attorney to steer clear of misleading promises and ensure a well-mapped-out path toward financial freedom. Listeners are encouraged to seek professional counsel early to dodge common missteps and seize opportunities in resolving their financial obligations.
In our final segment, we explore how the COVID-19 pandemic has shifted the financial landscape, emphasizing the importance of responsible debt management and achieving financial independence. Leslie shares her inspiring journey as a single parent and financial expert, underscoring the need for adaptability in financial strategies during life's transitions. We also discuss the significance of cultivating a positive relationship with money and being resourceful with financial education opportunities. Tune in to discover actionable steps and resources to help build a solid financial foundation and secure your path to financial stability and success.
How to contact Leslie:
https://attorney-newyork.com/about-us/leslie-tayne-bio/
Have an idea for a show or a question for Kim? Send us a text message
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want – brought to you by Neighbors Federal Credit Union.
The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that
focuses on how to use the moneyyou have, make the money you
need and save the money you want.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now here is your host , ms Kim Chapman.
Welcome to another edition ofMoney Matters Podcast.
Today, we're tackling a topicthat affects millions of people
debt.
Whether it's student loans,credit card balances or
unexpected medical bills, debtcan feel a bit overwhelming at
times.
I mean, eight out of tenAmericans have debt, so I know
(00:32):
I'm speaking to a lot of people,but don't worry.
This episode is all aboutproviding you with a debt detox.
I've heard of a lot of detoxes.
Some of them work, some of themdon't but a debt detox aren't
you curious?
Don't you want to know whatthat is?
Well, today we're excited towelcome Leslie Tain, an
experienced debt attorney andfounder of Tain Law Group.
(00:53):
Now she has over 20 years ofexperience, so I know that she
has something that you are goingto want to hear if you have
some debt.
Welcome Leslie.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I am so excited to tackle this topic.
I mean debt, it's everywhere.
It seems to be growing.
If you look at the numbers,it's a little bit scary.
So let's go ahead and getstarted and just telling me a
little bit about your backgroundand how you became a debt
attorney.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So I've been an attorney now for over 25 years
and I've been focusing in thefinancial world for consumers
and business owners resolvingdebt.
I really started out asin-house counsel to a company
that was focusing on the debtresolution processes early in my
career and then I felt likethere was something missing in
(01:41):
the community for real solutionsfor people who needed the legal
advice and the support.
So I started my own firm andit's just morphed and continued
to grow over the years into whatit is today, which is a very
supportive environment forbusinesses and consumers who
have debt-related issues andcredit matters.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, lastly, what are some of the most common types of
debt issues you see in clientstoday?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
The most common issues that we're seeing in debt
is still credit card-relateddebt.
The issue really is aninability of the average
household to keep up withexpenses and therefore using
credit to supplement income andpay for expenses.
That's a pretty common issuethat overall causes the debt
(02:28):
problems.
So it could be a consumerthat's doing that and it could
be a business owner that's doingsimilarly in their business
where there's not enough moneyto cover expenses.
So they take out different typesof funding products that then
supplement the income becausethere's just not enough cash
flow to meet the obligations.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yes, that's definitely common.
So, in your experience, whatare some of the biggest
misconceptions that consumershave about managing debt?
You?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
know.
I think for me you know overthe years of working with
thousands of people withdebt-related issues the biggest
misconception is that there's aquick fix.
There really is no overallquick fix.
It's not like you can just finda way and that's the best
solution for you.
Oftentimes people call me upand they say you know, my
neighbor, friend, relative, theydid this and they're out of
(03:18):
debt.
And I want to do the same thing.
And there's no two debtsolutions that are the same.
Each person is an individual,their financial situation is
individual and each financialsituation has its own DNA and
therefore the solution toresolving the debt issue is much
more complex than just a simplefix.
So I think misconception-wisethat people think it's just easy
(03:41):
to fix.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
So, as you mentioned, no two debts are alike, no two
scenarios and that's often whatI tell.
You know the clients that I see.
It's kind of like you can bothhave a cold, but the doctor may
give you completely differentprescriptions.
But are there ever situationswhere it's too late to get help
for debt and that maybebankruptcy is going to be the
only option?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Generally, when you're far down the road with a
lot of debt maybe you've beensued, you know you have frozen
bank accounts, liens againstyour property.
That's pretty far down the roadwith debt.
The bankruptcy card is a viableoption under certain
circumstances and the way that Iexplain this to clients is that
(04:21):
if you can afford the solutionfor an alternative to bankruptcy
, that if you can afford thesolution for an alternative to
bankruptcy, that is ideal.
If you cannot afford thatsolution you cannot put food on
the table, you cannot pay yourrent or your mortgage then you
need to consider bankruptcy as aserious option.
Bankruptcy is a very extremeoption when it comes to
resolving debt, and sometimes Isee people push into bankruptcy
(04:42):
with small amounts of debt thatcan easily be resolved, when in
fact, that the larger amounts ofdebt where they're just
completely overwhelmed andthere's nothing that can be done
to save that person and thatreally comes down to budget.
So if you can afford thealternatives, like I said that I
find a situation where theperson is really that far gone
(05:05):
that I can't turn it around.
The turnaround process may notalways fit in with the goals and
objectives of the client, right.
So you might say that you knowI I can't withstand a two to
four year process, which is whatthe average time is to resolve
debt.
So in bankruptcy you may notqualify for bankruptcy.
(05:25):
It's not an automatic right.
You have to qualify and meetwhat's called a means test, and
that means test is a formula todetermine which, if any, of the
bankruptcy options are availableto you.
So it's an extreme propositionand it will impact insurance,
licenses, all kinds of thingsfor the next 10 years, and that
there's a lot of fallout andconsequence for doing that.
(05:46):
Yes, of course, the upside isthat you are completely out of
debt to a certain extent, butthe downside is the damage to
the credit and the downside isthe damage irreparably in some
cases to your reputationfinancially.
That requires good financialhealth, things like insurance
and certain licenses for many ofmy clients and security
(06:08):
protocols for my clients, eitherin the military or government
work or things like that.
So, with that said, you know,looking at the two options, you
know bankruptcy may not work,but it might be an option and it
is an option if you reallycannot afford any other
alternative.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So let's talk about some of those alternatives.
Can you explain the differencebetween debt settlement, debt
consolidation, debt managementplans and then maybe some red
flags that individuals shouldlook for if they're considering
those programs, Because ofcourse, we know there's a lot of
fraudulent offers out there forconsumers?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
There sure are.
There's a lot of scams outthere, unfortunately.
Anything consumer based orfinance based, that's a really
nice breeding ground foropportunists who take advantage
of consumers in vulnerablesituations.
So if you're a consumer orbusiness owner in a vulnerable
situation financially, be awarethat a fast talking salesperson
(07:04):
can put you into a situationthat can make things a lot worse
.
So be self-protective.
But I think it's a gooddifferentiation because there's
a lot of information that's outthere and it's uber confusing.
Debt consolidation is a verygeneral term and under that
umbrella includes things likedebt settlement, bankruptcy,
(07:24):
debt consolidation, which couldinclude new loans, refinancing,
balance transfers so the debtconsolidation overall term is
very all-encompassing.
When you break that down todebt settlement, debt
refinancing there are optionsbased on your credit, the type
of debt you have and, obviously,your goals.
So with debt settlement it'sbeen around now for a little
(07:48):
while it can be very, verysuccessful.
It's just unfortunately doneoften by those that don't have
the best intentions forconsumers and therefore there
are a lot of states with nowregulations on the debt
settlement companies and I wouldrecommend, if you're looking
into it, that you double checkwith your state.
Oftentimes there's an attorneyexemption, meaning an attorney
(08:10):
licensed to practice law in thatstate, who practices
exclusively in the debtsettlement area, is often exempt
from the licensing for obviousreasons, due to accountability
of the license of the attorney.
But if you're looking into thedebt, settlement and other
things like that, debtconsolidation be aware that you
are vulnerable and you can besolicited and sold, something
that is the worst thing thatcould happen to you.
(08:31):
So, with that said, that's whybacktracking and being aware and
trying not to make decisionswhen you're emotionally
entrenched and stressed out isthe best way.
When pulling the trigger on adifferent type of program In
debt settlement generally, whatyou're doing is negotiating for
less than the balance owed.
In a debt settlement situation,you can't be current.
(08:52):
There's no way any creditorwill negotiate a settlement if
you continue to make current andon-time payments.
That's not the way it is.
The hardship is that you're notmaking the payment, but
obviously there's consequencesto that, and the right firm and
the right company ororganization will guide you
through that and minimize anyimpacts you and shield you from
those challenges, which is whatwe do In a debt consolidation.
(09:12):
When you're refinancing, youhave to have great credit,
stellar credit.
Stellar credit today is over740, at least, and even close to
800.
When you gotta have money inthe bank, a really solid job, a
job history, in order to get thebest rates and right now,
interest rates, even thoughthey've come down a little bit,
are still pretty high.
So you're not getting greatrates, even with some of the
(09:35):
best credit on debtconsolidation loans.
And again, the challenge with adebt consolidation loan is that
they'll try to push you intothe loan situation because
that's the benefit of the loancompany, that's how they work
and that's their business model.
But it may not be the bestthing for you because a debt
consolidation loan consolidatesthe debt but doesn't resolve the
(09:55):
underlying issue, so you couldend up with debt consolidation
loan and new credit card debt.
So bankruptcy is the thirdoption under a debt
consolidation umbrella.
And then there's consumer creditcounseling services, which are
considered not-for-profit, butbe aware that not-for-profit
doesn't mean that the people whorun that don't make money.
They do and they have salaries.
(10:16):
So don't let the not-for-profitentice you into working with
somebody, because it's simplynot-for-profit, which is a tax
status.
They still earn money.
It has to be the right fit foryou, and a consumer credit
counseling service basicallyworks with your creditors to
reduce the interest rates, butit doesn't necessarily hit your
principal balance.
So there's lots of differentoptions out there and
(10:39):
unfortunately, when you get intoa vulnerable position, you
start going online and obviouslyanything you do online is
tracked.
So there's lots of ways to findyou and they'll find you and
mail you things, solicit you,call you, tell you that they'll
sell you rainbows andbutterflies, make you guarantees
and promises.
Those are all red flags forconsumers and business owners to
(11:01):
be aware of.
There is absolutely, in 25 plusyears of me doing this, no way
for me to tell anybody adefinitive number from any
creditor ever, or timeframe.
There are so many variablesthat go into the resolution of
debt and under the debtconsolidation process that
there's no way to know whatthose are.
If there was, I'd be longretired and I'd be done, but
(11:24):
there's no way to know that.
So If it was, I'd be longretired and I'd be done, but
there's no way to know that.
So anybody making youdefinitive promises and asking
for money up front, bank accountinformation or otherwise, you
know you really need to do yourresearch.
Go online, see who they are,find out their full names, put
their names in the search engine, see who you're talking to and
be just super careful andadvocate for yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's the best way to help yourself with a debt
problem.
You know, I imagine some of ourlisteners, this explanation is
maybe taking a load off of themand saying, oh, I get it now, I
have a plan of action, but thereare gonna be some that are just
gonna be listening and feelingoverwhelmed.
So when should someone considerworking with a debt attorney
like yourself?
When they just feel like thisis?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Generally, the best time to work with somebody like
me is when you start to realizethat you're having a problem,
because when you work withsomebody you know a debt
attorney the incentive is andthe goal is to inform you, as
the client, what you can expectand lay out a roadmap.
Once that roadmap is laid out,then myself, as the advocate,
(12:30):
will go and implement thatstrategy and that program so
that the client is in a betterplace.
It is not great to think and Ijust had this today.
Actually somebody called memonths ago and now they're in a
worse position.
They have a judgment againstthem from somebody who promised
that they would help them, whonever did, and now they have a
(12:52):
lien against the property and asale notice on that property.
And so it's not that thatperson is too far gone and, yes,
potentially bankruptcy might bethe outcome.
But it would have been betterto, when they first started to
smell smoke, that they hired me,because I would have given me
and whoever you're hiring enoughtime to work through the
(13:13):
challenges.
But what ends up happening isthat because there are so many
opportunities out there and whenyou talk to all these different
people, you know there's a lotof people that will say that
they'll help you.
But you're really on a shorttimeframe.
Once you start to go delinquentwith debt and you can't pay it,
it's a slippery slope.
So once you realize that you'renot going to be able to meet the
obligation, that's the time toreach out to a debt help a debt
(13:35):
settlement attorney who works inthis area and knows what
they're doing.
Interestingly, this other case,this particular attorney that
this person went to before inbetween initially talking to me
now, was somebody who didsomething in with consumers, but
not the actual area that theclient needed.
So you don't want to be anexperiment.
(13:56):
You don't want to be somebodywho they're learning off of,
because if you miss deadlinesand you miss the timeframe, you
can miss opportunities to getthe debt resolved appropriately.
So, working with somebody withexperience background, who has
an accountability, withexperience background, who has
an accountability, you knowthere's something that you know
I have to lose, more so than myclient, right?
(14:18):
So my license is most importantto me as a, as an attorney, and
so I think as a consumer.
When I'm looking for the bestpossible solutions, some people
think oh no, I don't need anattorney, because an attorney
feels kind of scary and serious,and why would I?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
need an attorney for this.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I could just you know there's so many ways to do this
.
I could do it myself, or youknow, in a lot of ways you can,
but it's not an area that you,as a consumer, use on a regular
basis.
So it makes it kind ofchallenging to learn as you go
and you don't necessarily knowyou're getting the best deals
and whether it's being doneright and whether it's going to
(14:55):
come back to haunt you later.
So I think early on it makessense.
I'm a big believer in you knowI'm not an expert in everything.
So I'm a big believer in goingto people who know what they're
doing on things, because I'drather cut the chase and get it
done right the first time thanhave to backtrack and fix a
mistake, because either I triedto do it on my own and I had no
(15:16):
idea what I was doing, or I wentto somebody because I was penny
wise and pound foolish and Ikind of felt like I didn't want
to spend the money.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And, I think, one of the motivating factors for
individuals to take action andto seek help.
Like you mentioned, sometimesit's a little too late because
it's after the debt collectorsare calling them.
So what should people knowabout their rights in terms of
debt collectors calling them?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So it's not too late to get help.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
If debt collectors are calling, you know, but
remember that when debtcollectors are calling, you know
at that point your accounts arenow delinquent.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So there are some laws and rules and local laws
that surround debt collectionactivities for consumers, and
that's one is called the FairDebt Collection Practices Act.
The FDCPA is a federal law thatwas enacted to help consumers
and regulate collection agenciesfor consumer based debt.
(16:12):
But again, that's not firstparty, so that's not the
original creditor, those aresecondary parties and not people
who are collecting the debt forthemselves, and that regulates
times of calls, content of calls, things like that, and for the
most part, honestly, after allthese years, I can say pretty
safely that most creditorsfollow the FDCPA and it's
(16:33):
unlikely you're going to getsomebody calling you up and
calling you names and cursingyou out.
That's pretty rare, except inbusiness debt.
In business debt that's a wholeother world and we see that
happen on a regular basis, butin consumer-based debt that's
pretty much under control thesedays.
So as a consumer, you can besure that it's likely that
you'll be somewhat protected bythese rules and laws.
(16:54):
I think one of the things thatclients and consumers like to do
and anybody in debt likes to doinitially is just dump
information onto the debtcollector, which is probably the
worst thing you could ever dois tell them everything under
the sun from the moment you wereborn and how you got the debt
and why you shouldn't pay it.
Shouldn't pay it whatever it is.
So I think it's giving away toomuch information.
(17:15):
And again, working with anexperienced advocate can help
guide you in what informationshould be given to a debt
collector and what informationyou should not.
Because I often tell clients ifyou've already tried to
negotiate this on your own andwere unsuccessful, and now
you're going to come to me totry to fix it for you, I
probably can fix it, but I can'tguarantee the numbers at that
point, because if you told thecreditor things and disclosed
(17:38):
information to the creditor thatimpacts their decision-making
on settlement numbers orresolution processes or even the
legal process, you kind of shotyourself in the foot.
And again and it's expected insome ways because the consumer
doesn't know.
So they think that it's betterto just tell them everything.
But it's really better less ismore to have more of an
(17:58):
informational conversation withthe creditor, ask questions and
disclose what's needed todisclose in order to achieve
your goals.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Is there any sort of checklist that's available in
terms of what you shoulddisclose and what you shouldn't
disclose available?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
in terms of what you should disclose and what you
shouldn't disclose.
You know I should put thattogether, but you know some of
it is case by case basis right.
So there are things that wewould consider a hardship, that
the creditor does not consider ahardship, and I'll give you a
quick example.
Covid is no longer a hardship.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It wasn't a hardship in the middle of COVID.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And the reason why was because the creditors felt
that you should be vaccinated.
So if you didn't get vaccinatedand you couldn't go to work for
three weeks because you, youknow again, this is not my
opinion, this is just a fact ofexperience.
So sometimes people would sayto me in those scenarios, but I
had COVID and I couldn't workfor two weeks, the creditor
would say did they getvaccinated?
(18:50):
No, no, hardship Click.
So you know again what youwould consider a hardship and
what the creditors consider ahardship could be two different
things.
And so it's not that I'm notsympathetic and empathetic to my
client's situations and theexperiences that they have.
They're just not alwayshardships that will induce a
(19:10):
creditor to reduce the balanceRight.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So and they hear a lot of things.
It's like getting pulled overby the police when you're, you
know they hear a lot of excusesand they hear it all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So the creditors are the same way.
They deal with thousands ofpeople who tell them the same
thing over and over again andmost of the time, unfortunately,
the few bad apples spoil it forthe rest.
So you know, having somebodywho understands and can then
spin that and say you know,because in certain circumstances
we have let's go back to thatCOVID example clients that have
had COVID and now can never workfor the rest of their life.
(19:42):
And we do have a client who wasunfortunately hospitalized for
six months and then had a heartattack and all kinds of other
issues that then becamechallenging for that client to
keep up with their bills anddebts and we needed to advocate
for them.
But again, a basic, simplelittle situation.
You know, while you might thinkis a hardship, the creditor
doesn't.
So I'm just using that, youknow, for our explanatory
(20:06):
purposes.
But I will again caveat thatwith none of that is my opinion.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Well, since you mentioned COVID, how have you
seen debt change, or have youseen it change in relationship
to the impact of COVID and justinflation in general?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So I'll start it from where we are now.
So inflation is coming down, sothe interest rates are coming
down.
It's taken a long time.
Covid messed everything up inshort, sweet language and it
caused lots of challenges forconsumers and businesses and
that trickled down and tookyears now years to try to clean
(20:43):
up and fix.
So what we're seeing now isobviously the effects of that
situation where the goods andservices have now increased and
become very expensive, situationwhere the goods and services
have now increased and becomevery expensive.
We're hopefully on the otherside of that and it seems as
though, economically speaking,that those numbers are coming
(21:04):
down.
And I say it economicallybecause it hasn't necessarily
trickled down to the consumeryet.
So that's why not everybodynecessarily feels the impact of
the changes that have gone on orare going on.
And you know, what remains to beseen is kind of a good guess.
You know, we had many, manyyears with low interest rates
and that benefited peoplegreatly.
But the COVID-19 pandemic thatdidn't just hit our country but
(21:24):
impacted situations around theworld, left us with, you know,
holding the bag of veryexpensive goods and services,
and so, unfortunately, thatcreated a situation where and
limited jobs.
In the beginning it's not somuch now but again.
Media post-COVID waschallenging job-wise and that
left a lot of consumerschallenged with how they're
going to meet their obligations.
(21:45):
So expenses went up, jobopportunities went down, income
stayed the same and now it's aperfect storm for those people
to get into debt.
And there are a lot of peoplethat are struggling as a result
of that perfect storm.
So interest rates coming downquarter percent, half a percent,
even a whole percent, it takestime to trickle down.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And same thing with inflation and when inflation
changes and alters, it doesn'thappen immediately, it doesn't
trickle down to us as theconsumers immediately.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
It takes time for that to even out and we may not
see those changes for a year ortwo, and so, as a consumer, you
have to be able to roll withthese changes.
Unfortunately, and living onthe edge with no money in the
bank and paycheck to paycheckwill leave you, as a consumer,
very vulnerable.
So, overall, your goal on theend of these things, and really
(22:35):
what any consumer and businessowner should have learned from
what we went through is thatmoney in the bank is key, but
getting money in the bank isdifficult, and to get money in
the bank, you have to limit yourexposure to debt and expenses
and try to keep expenses down.
Easier said than done, but itis the best way to limit your
exposure.
(22:55):
Now having debt is not a bigdeal and I wrote a book about
that the Life in Debt.
Having debt is totally okay,but it's a matter of how you
manage it and how it fits intoyour life and what you do with
it.
That makes it work for you.
And when we have changes likethis in our economy, when we
have changes in presidencies,when we have changes in a COVID
(23:17):
situation, which hopefully is aonce in a lifetime for all of us
.
You know when you have changesand things impact it, you have
wars that are occurring overseasthat impact things here back in
this country.
So you know it's not just oneconflict.
There's conflicts all over theworld that are causing
challenges.
Not just one conflict, there'sconflicts all over the world
that are causing challenges.
All that ultimately impacts usas consumers and really the best
(23:39):
way to insulate yourself fromthat and ride the wave of
challenges financially is moneyin the bank, and it's again not
an easy thing, but overall thatshould be the goal.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
So you mentioned, having a little debt is okay.
So what is your advice forpeople who've cleared up their
debt and want to make sure theyavoid falling back into that
debt trap again?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
really empowering statement and empowering
experience and appreciate whatyou came from and how difficult
it was to get out of debt.
The goal at that point is notonly to be grateful of it but
(24:18):
also to look at what you coulddo to avoid that, going forward,
limiting your exposure to that,to debt situations.
Debt situations are jobinstability, adding things to
your household that you can'tafford biting off more than you
can chew, and you know it's notan easy way to stay ahead of the
(24:39):
wave and ahead of that curve.
But the best way to do that isto regularly check in with your
money and finances.
You need to make your moneyyour best friend and a happy
relationship with bills.
You know the bills come, I'mhappy to pay them.
You know I understand that Ihave an obligation and I write
my checks out happily withpositive energy, and I spend a
lot of time dealing with a lotof negativity, you know from my
(25:03):
clients in terms of what they'reexperiencing.
But I look at everything as apositive experience and I think
it's the relationship you createwith your money and your and
your debt that really couldchange your future.
You have to look at it as apositive experience.
It's OK to have debt.
It's OK to have had debt, tohave been in debt, it's OK, even
(25:23):
if you had to file bankruptcyand all that's OK, so long as
you learn something from it andyou can take that into the
future and you can say you know,I learned my lesson and here's
what I need to do and creatingthose boundaries.
You know, self-preservation,self-protection when it comes to
that, and preserving andprotecting your money and your
finances and your future isreally important.
(25:44):
Not letting others influenceyour decision making about money
, being independent, even if itmeans conflict with those that
you love about your money and Iknow that's super hard for
people, especially this time ofyear, with the holidays coming.
You know it's really diggingyour heels in and saying I
understand that you're not goingto be happy with my decision,
but this is what's best for meand my money and I and I need to
(26:05):
protect that, and if you canstay focused on that that is
your number one goal then Ithink that you can achieve
financial health and wellnessongoing.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
But you have to check in with yourself what makes you
feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Also, you know in your gut when you're doing the
right thing or not doing theright thing.
So all of that requires a lotof awareness.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
So you mentioned you wrote a book.
Can you give us just a littleshort snippet about what that
book is about?
And then if there are any otherresources or tools that you
that you'd recommend for peopleto look into that want to learn
more about managing their debt.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So there is a lot of information online and I know
that that could be reallyconfusing and kind of
overwhelming.
So, as far as resources andtools, I find that when I talk
to different clients about youknow what works for them, it
doesn't work for them.
You know, sometimes people haveto hear it different ways.
So I'm a big fan of listeningto you know like a Money Matters
(27:04):
podcast, so that you can hearit from different people Like
where is it resonating for you?
I mean, where can you find yourinspiration?
You know there are lots ofresources to help you with
budgeting.
There are lots of resources tostay out of debt.
Your bank, right at your banks,have tools to help you with
that.
There's blog articles and otherthings.
But to really be effective withthe information, you have to
(27:27):
understand kind of the basicsand how does it resonate and
relate to you.
So I think that reallyunderstanding your relationship
with money is the first step infinding the appropriate
resources and, while you know,for me to advocate for one or
two different resources would beremiss in understanding what
(27:48):
the needs are and the variousneeds of all the different
people who are listening andunderstanding that.
You know this is it's not aneasy road, it just isn't.
And staying on that road, youknow I was a single parent with.
I still am a single parent withthree children.
I raised my kids alone sincethey were five and seven, and
there's a lot that changes overthose years.
Building a business, paying offmy student loans, raising three
(28:10):
children in a very competitiveenvironment.
You know, dealing with all thethings that happen along that
way and keeping my head abovewater and not getting into debt
requires a tremendous consciouseffort, and you, too, can be
there.
It's just.
It's a commitment to yourselfand to your family and to your
goals to do that.
And the resources that I'veused are a lot are actually
(28:34):
outside the financial world.
You know really understandingmyself as a person and being
able to be in calm spaces,clearing my head, maybe taking a
walk, getting some time awayfrom the kids, or, you know,
significant others, and you know, staying away from toxic
environments and toxic people,so that you know I can achieve
what I'm looking to achieve andnot allow that to suck me in.
(28:57):
And so you know I've used lotsof different resources over the
years, from online banking toolsto books, to podcasts, to
different apps that have reallyhelped me get to where I am.
There's not one tool that'sgoing to work for one person.
It's a combination of differentthings that are going to work
for you, and it's going tochange over time.
(29:17):
If you're in the middle of adivorce, you're in a storm and
when you get on the other sideof that, you're going to need
different resources than youneeded during that divorce.
Pre-divorce.
If you had a spouse orsignificant other pass away,
you're also in a differentsituation.
And so if you've just finishedcollege or graduate school and
you're in debt and you're tryingto make your way in the world,
(29:37):
your resources and needs aregoing to be different than you
are on the other side of that.
You know, 10 years later, whenyou have a family and you're
balancing different things.
So your needs and resources aregoing to change over the years
and it's OK that you outgrowthem or they no longer serve you
and don't work for you.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And if you read something that somebody else is
a huge advocate of, but didn'twork for you.
That's okay.
Well, Leslie, I want to wrap upwith asking you this question
what's the most rewarding partof helping people overcome their
debt challenges?
And then, how can our listenersreach out to you if they want
to get more information?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So I absolutely love what I do and the most rewarding
piece is that is when I talk toa client, I tell them that they
finished their, finished payingoff their debt, or I call them
with a settlement, and therelief that they feel I hear on
the other side is is soincredibly rewarding.
I mean, I can fix any of thesefinancial challenges for anybody
.
There hasn't been a ball Ihaven't been able to hit, and
(30:36):
it's incredibly empowering to doso on behalf of clients and
help shape and change what mightbe their world and their
family's world so that they canexist peacefully.
You know, my overall goal in mylife is a peaceful, happy
existence and I hope that in thethroes of what's negative here
finances and debt that that halfglass is half full and
positivity comes through, and sothat to me, is the most
(31:01):
rewarding piece of what I dohere.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I absolutely agree with you there.
And how can our listeners reachout to you if they want to
learn more information?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
So many ways to find me on the internet, so you can
certainly put my name in asearch engine.
We're on X and LinkedIn andInstagram, tiktok.
Everything is either at LeslieH Tain, esq or Tain Law Group.
You're welcome to put that intoany search term and find us and
certainly reach out on anysocial media.
We do monitor that and we'llrespond to any DMs or anything
(31:33):
that comes through.
And you're welcome to give us acall at the office at
866-890-7337.
All of our consultations arefree, but I do want to say that
the consultations talk to us isfree but that there is a cost to
do work for you, but they'realways.
The consultation andconversation is free and I
welcome any feedback andconversations about anything
(31:54):
debt related and if I can guideyou, I certainly will.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Well, Leslie, thank you so much for taking the time
to share your expertise with ourlisteners.
I am sure they took away a lotof good information and I hope
that I can have you back soon.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Thank you for having me.
It was a pleasure you forhaving me.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
It was a pleasure.
Now it's time for our blueprintbuilding blocks.
These are actionable steps thatcan turn your ideas into
progress and help you along theway.
So for this episode, list andprioritize your debts.
Start by listing all of yourdebts, including the balances,
the rates, the minimum payments.
You really need to understandwho you owe and what you owe.
Create a spending plan.
That's another way of talkingabout the B word a budget.
(32:40):
Setting a monthly budget thataccounts for all of your regular
expenses and includes an amountthat you can consistently pay
towards your debt will help youstart paying off the debt little
by little.
Then reach out for professionalhelp If your debt feels
unmanageable.
Talk to someone.
Neighbors offers free financialcounseling.
Just make sure that you dowhat's comfortable for you.
(33:03):
And finally, for moreinformation, log on to
neighborsfcuorg forward slashfinancialeducationorg.
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that
focuses on how to use the moneyyou have, make the money you
need and save the money you want.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Now here is your host , ms Kim Chapman.
Welcome to another edition ofMoney Matters Podcast.
Today, we're tackling a topicthat affects millions of people
debt.
Whether it's student loans,credit card balances or
unexpected medical bills, debtcan feel a bit overwhelming at
times.
I mean, eight out of tenAmericans have debt, so I know
(00:32):
I'm speaking to a lot of people,but don't worry.
This episode is all aboutproviding you with a debt detox.
I've heard of a lot of detoxes.
Some of them work, some of themdon't but a debt detox aren't
you curious?
Don't you want to know whatthat is?
Well, today we're excited towelcome Leslie Tain, an
experienced debt attorney andfounder of Tain Law Group.
(00:53):
Now she has over 20 years ofexperience, so I know that she
has something that you are goingto want to hear if you have
some debt.
Welcome Leslie.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Thank you for having me.
I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I am so excited to tackle this topic.
I mean debt, it's everywhere.
It seems to be growing.
If you look at the numbers,it's a little bit scary.
So let's go ahead and getstarted and just telling me a
little bit about your backgroundand how you became a debt
attorney.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
So I've been an attorney now for over 25 years
and I've been focusing in thefinancial world for consumers
and business owners resolvingdebt.
I really started out asin-house counsel to a company
that was focusing on the debtresolution processes early in my
career and then I felt likethere was something missing in
(01:41):
the community for real solutionsfor people who needed the legal
advice and the support.
So I started my own firm andit's just morphed and continued
to grow over the years into whatit is today, which is a very
supportive environment forbusinesses and consumers who
have debt-related issues andcredit matters.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So, lastly, what are some of the most common types of
debt issues you see in clientstoday?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
The most common issues that we're seeing in debt
is still credit card-relateddebt.
The issue really is aninability of the average
household to keep up withexpenses and therefore using
credit to supplement income andpay for expenses.
That's a pretty common issuethat overall causes the debt
(02:28):
problems.
So it could be a consumerthat's doing that and it could
be a business owner that's doingsimilarly in their business
where there's not enough moneyto cover expenses.
So they take out different typesof funding products that then
supplement the income becausethere's just not enough cash
flow to meet the obligations.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yes, that's definitely common.
So, in your experience, whatare some of the biggest
misconceptions that consumershave about managing debt?
You?
Speaker 1 (02:55):
know.
I think for me you know overthe years of working with
thousands of people withdebt-related issues the biggest
misconception is that there's aquick fix.
There really is no overallquick fix.
It's not like you can just finda way and that's the best
solution for you.
Oftentimes people call me upand they say you know, my
neighbor, friend, relative, theydid this and they're out of
(03:18):
debt.
And I want to do the same thing.
And there's no two debtsolutions that are the same.
Each person is an individual,their financial situation is
individual and each financialsituation has its own DNA and
therefore the solution toresolving the debt issue is much
more complex than just a simplefix.
So I think misconception-wisethat people think it's just easy
(03:41):
to fix.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
So, as you mentioned, no two debts are alike, no two
scenarios and that's often whatI tell.
You know the clients that I see.
It's kind of like you can bothhave a cold, but the doctor may
give you completely differentprescriptions.
But are there ever situationswhere it's too late to get help
for debt and that maybebankruptcy is going to be the
only option?
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Generally, when you're far down the road with a
lot of debt maybe you've beensued, you know you have frozen
bank accounts, liens againstyour property.
That's pretty far down the roadwith debt.
The bankruptcy card is a viableoption under certain
circumstances and the way that Iexplain this to clients is that
(04:21):
if you can afford the solutionfor an alternative to bankruptcy
, that if you can afford thesolution for an alternative to
bankruptcy, that is ideal.
If you cannot afford thatsolution you cannot put food on
the table, you cannot pay yourrent or your mortgage then you
need to consider bankruptcy as aserious option.
Bankruptcy is a very extremeoption when it comes to
resolving debt, and sometimes Isee people push into bankruptcy
(04:42):
with small amounts of debt thatcan easily be resolved, when in
fact, that the larger amounts ofdebt where they're just
completely overwhelmed andthere's nothing that can be done
to save that person and thatreally comes down to budget.
So if you can afford thealternatives, like I said that I
find a situation where theperson is really that far gone
(05:05):
that I can't turn it around.
The turnaround process may notalways fit in with the goals and
objectives of the client, right.
So you might say that you knowI I can't withstand a two to
four year process, which is whatthe average time is to resolve
debt.
So in bankruptcy you may notqualify for bankruptcy.
(05:25):
It's not an automatic right.
You have to qualify and meetwhat's called a means test, and
that means test is a formula todetermine which, if any, of the
bankruptcy options are availableto you.
So it's an extreme propositionand it will impact insurance,
licenses, all kinds of thingsfor the next 10 years, and that
there's a lot of fallout andconsequence for doing that.
(05:46):
Yes, of course, the upside isthat you are completely out of
debt to a certain extent, butthe downside is the damage to
the credit and the downside isthe damage irreparably in some
cases to your reputationfinancially.
That requires good financialhealth, things like insurance
and certain licenses for many ofmy clients and security
(06:08):
protocols for my clients, eitherin the military or government
work or things like that.
So, with that said, you know,looking at the two options, you
know bankruptcy may not work,but it might be an option and it
is an option if you reallycannot afford any other
alternative.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
So let's talk about some of those alternatives.
Can you explain the differencebetween debt settlement, debt
consolidation, debt managementplans and then maybe some red
flags that individuals shouldlook for if they're considering
those programs, Because ofcourse, we know there's a lot of
fraudulent offers out there forconsumers?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
There sure are.
There's a lot of scams outthere, unfortunately.
Anything consumer based orfinance based, that's a really
nice breeding ground foropportunists who take advantage
of consumers in vulnerablesituations.
So if you're a consumer orbusiness owner in a vulnerable
situation financially, be awarethat a fast talking salesperson
(07:04):
can put you into a situationthat can make things a lot worse
.
So be self-protective.
But I think it's a gooddifferentiation because there's
a lot of information that's outthere and it's uber confusing.
Debt consolidation is a verygeneral term and under that
umbrella includes things likedebt settlement, bankruptcy,
(07:24):
debt consolidation, which couldinclude new loans, refinancing,
balance transfers so the debtconsolidation overall term is
very all-encompassing.
When you break that down todebt settlement, debt
refinancing there are optionsbased on your credit, the type
of debt you have and, obviously,your goals.
So with debt settlement it'sbeen around now for a little
(07:48):
while it can be very, verysuccessful.
It's just unfortunately doneoften by those that don't have
the best intentions forconsumers and therefore there
are a lot of states with nowregulations on the debt
settlement companies and I wouldrecommend, if you're looking
into it, that you double checkwith your state.
Oftentimes there's an attorneyexemption, meaning an attorney
(08:10):
licensed to practice law in thatstate, who practices
exclusively in the debtsettlement area, is often exempt
from the licensing for obviousreasons, due to accountability
of the license of the attorney.
But if you're looking into thedebt, settlement and other
things like that, debtconsolidation be aware that you
are vulnerable and you can besolicited and sold, something
that is the worst thing thatcould happen to you.
(08:31):
So, with that said, that's whybacktracking and being aware and
trying not to make decisionswhen you're emotionally
entrenched and stressed out isthe best way.
When pulling the trigger on adifferent type of program In
debt settlement generally, whatyou're doing is negotiating for
less than the balance owed.
In a debt settlement situation,you can't be current.
(08:52):
There's no way any creditorwill negotiate a settlement if
you continue to make current andon-time payments.
That's not the way it is.
The hardship is that you're notmaking the payment, but
obviously there's consequencesto that, and the right firm and
the right company ororganization will guide you
through that and minimize anyimpacts you and shield you from
those challenges, which is whatwe do In a debt consolidation.
(09:12):
When you're refinancing, youhave to have great credit,
stellar credit.
Stellar credit today is over740, at least, and even close to
800.
When you gotta have money inthe bank, a really solid job, a
job history, in order to get thebest rates and right now,
interest rates, even thoughthey've come down a little bit,
are still pretty high.
So you're not getting greatrates, even with some of the
(09:35):
best credit on debtconsolidation loans.
And again, the challenge with adebt consolidation loan is that
they'll try to push you intothe loan situation because
that's the benefit of the loancompany, that's how they work
and that's their business model.
But it may not be the bestthing for you because a debt
consolidation loan consolidatesthe debt but doesn't resolve the
(09:55):
underlying issue, so you couldend up with debt consolidation
loan and new credit card debt.
So bankruptcy is the thirdoption under a debt
consolidation umbrella.
And then there's consumer creditcounseling services, which are
considered not-for-profit, butbe aware that not-for-profit
doesn't mean that the people whorun that don't make money.
They do and they have salaries.
(10:16):
So don't let the not-for-profitentice you into working with
somebody, because it's simplynot-for-profit, which is a tax
status.
They still earn money.
It has to be the right fit foryou, and a consumer credit
counseling service basicallyworks with your creditors to
reduce the interest rates, butit doesn't necessarily hit your
principal balance.
So there's lots of differentoptions out there and
(10:39):
unfortunately, when you get intoa vulnerable position, you
start going online and obviouslyanything you do online is
tracked.
So there's lots of ways to findyou and they'll find you and
mail you things, solicit you,call you, tell you that they'll
sell you rainbows andbutterflies, make you guarantees
and promises.
Those are all red flags forconsumers and business owners to
(11:01):
be aware of.
There is absolutely, in 25 plusyears of me doing this, no way
for me to tell anybody adefinitive number from any
creditor ever, or timeframe.
There are so many variablesthat go into the resolution of
debt and under the debtconsolidation process that
there's no way to know whatthose are.
If there was, I'd be longretired and I'd be done, but
(11:24):
there's no way to know that.
So If it was, I'd be longretired and I'd be done, but
there's no way to know that.
So anybody making youdefinitive promises and asking
for money up front, bank accountinformation or otherwise, you
know you really need to do yourresearch.
Go online, see who they are,find out their full names, put
their names in the search engine, see who you're talking to and
be just super careful andadvocate for yourself.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's the best way to help yourself with a debt
problem.
You know, I imagine some of ourlisteners, this explanation is
maybe taking a load off of themand saying, oh, I get it now, I
have a plan of action, but thereare gonna be some that are just
gonna be listening and feelingoverwhelmed.
So when should someone considerworking with a debt attorney
like yourself?
When they just feel like thisis?
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Generally, the best time to work with somebody like
me is when you start to realizethat you're having a problem,
because when you work withsomebody you know a debt
attorney the incentive is andthe goal is to inform you, as
the client, what you can expectand lay out a roadmap.
Once that roadmap is laid out,then myself, as the advocate,
(12:30):
will go and implement thatstrategy and that program so
that the client is in a betterplace.
It is not great to think and Ijust had this today.
Actually somebody called memonths ago and now they're in a
worse position.
They have a judgment againstthem from somebody who promised
that they would help them, whonever did, and now they have a
(12:52):
lien against the property and asale notice on that property.
And so it's not that thatperson is too far gone and, yes,
potentially bankruptcy might bethe outcome.
But it would have been betterto, when they first started to
smell smoke, that they hired me,because I would have given me
and whoever you're hiring enoughtime to work through the
(13:13):
challenges.
But what ends up happening isthat because there are so many
opportunities out there and whenyou talk to all these different
people, you know there's a lotof people that will say that
they'll help you.
But you're really on a shorttimeframe.
Once you start to go delinquentwith debt and you can't pay it,
it's a slippery slope.
So once you realize that you'renot going to be able to meet the
obligation, that's the time toreach out to a debt help a debt
(13:35):
settlement attorney who works inthis area and knows what
they're doing.
Interestingly, this other case,this particular attorney that
this person went to before inbetween initially talking to me
now, was somebody who didsomething in with consumers, but
not the actual area that theclient needed.
So you don't want to be anexperiment.
(13:56):
You don't want to be somebodywho they're learning off of,
because if you miss deadlinesand you miss the timeframe, you
can miss opportunities to getthe debt resolved appropriately.
So, working with somebody withexperience background, who has
an accountability, withexperience background, who has
an accountability, you knowthere's something that you know
I have to lose, more so than myclient, right?
(14:18):
So my license is most importantto me as a, as an attorney, and
so I think as a consumer.
When I'm looking for the bestpossible solutions, some people
think oh no, I don't need anattorney, because an attorney
feels kind of scary and serious,and why would I?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
need an attorney for this.
Speaker 1 (14:34):
I could just you know there's so many ways to do this
.
I could do it myself, or youknow, in a lot of ways you can,
but it's not an area that you,as a consumer, use on a regular
basis.
So it makes it kind ofchallenging to learn as you go
and you don't necessarily knowyou're getting the best deals
and whether it's being doneright and whether it's going to
(14:55):
come back to haunt you later.
So I think early on it makessense.
I'm a big believer in you knowI'm not an expert in everything.
So I'm a big believer in goingto people who know what they're
doing on things, because I'drather cut the chase and get it
done right the first time thanhave to backtrack and fix a
mistake, because either I triedto do it on my own and I had no
(15:16):
idea what I was doing, or I wentto somebody because I was penny
wise and pound foolish and Ikind of felt like I didn't want
to spend the money.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
And, I think, one of the motivating factors for
individuals to take action andto seek help.
Like you mentioned, sometimesit's a little too late because
it's after the debt collectorsare calling them.
So what should people knowabout their rights in terms of
debt collectors calling them?
Speaker 1 (15:42):
So it's not too late to get help.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
If debt collectors are calling, you know, but
remember that when debtcollectors are calling, you know
at that point your accounts arenow delinquent.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So there are some laws and rules and local laws
that surround debt collectionactivities for consumers, and
that's one is called the FairDebt Collection Practices Act.
The FDCPA is a federal law thatwas enacted to help consumers
and regulate collection agenciesfor consumer based debt.
(16:12):
But again, that's not firstparty, so that's not the
original creditor, those aresecondary parties and not people
who are collecting the debt forthemselves, and that regulates
times of calls, content of calls, things like that, and for the
most part, honestly, after allthese years, I can say pretty
safely that most creditorsfollow the FDCPA and it's
(16:33):
unlikely you're going to getsomebody calling you up and
calling you names and cursingyou out.
That's pretty rare, except inbusiness debt.
In business debt that's a wholeother world and we see that
happen on a regular basis, butin consumer-based debt that's
pretty much under control thesedays.
So as a consumer, you can besure that it's likely that
you'll be somewhat protected bythese rules and laws.
(16:54):
I think one of the things thatclients and consumers like to do
and anybody in debt likes to doinitially is just dump
information onto the debtcollector, which is probably the
worst thing you could ever dois tell them everything under
the sun from the moment you wereborn and how you got the debt
and why you shouldn't pay it.
Shouldn't pay it whatever it is.
So I think it's giving away toomuch information.
(17:15):
And again, working with anexperienced advocate can help
guide you in what informationshould be given to a debt
collector and what informationyou should not.
Because I often tell clients ifyou've already tried to
negotiate this on your own andwere unsuccessful, and now
you're going to come to me totry to fix it for you, I
probably can fix it, but I can'tguarantee the numbers at that
point, because if you told thecreditor things and disclosed
(17:38):
information to the creditor thatimpacts their decision-making
on settlement numbers orresolution processes or even the
legal process, you kind of shotyourself in the foot.
And again and it's expected insome ways because the consumer
doesn't know.
So they think that it's betterto just tell them everything.
But it's really better less ismore to have more of an
(17:58):
informational conversation withthe creditor, ask questions and
disclose what's needed todisclose in order to achieve
your goals.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
Is there any sort of checklist that's available in
terms of what you shoulddisclose and what you shouldn't
disclose available?
Speaker 1 (18:13):
in terms of what you should disclose and what you
shouldn't disclose.
You know I should put thattogether, but you know some of
it is case by case basis right.
So there are things that wewould consider a hardship, that
the creditor does not consider ahardship, and I'll give you a
quick example.
Covid is no longer a hardship.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
It wasn't a hardship in the middle of COVID.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
And the reason why was because the creditors felt
that you should be vaccinated.
So if you didn't get vaccinatedand you couldn't go to work for
three weeks because you, youknow again, this is not my
opinion, this is just a fact ofexperience.
So sometimes people would sayto me in those scenarios, but I
had COVID and I couldn't workfor two weeks, the creditor
would say did they getvaccinated?
(18:50):
No, no, hardship Click.
So you know again what youwould consider a hardship and
what the creditors consider ahardship could be two different
things.
And so it's not that I'm notsympathetic and empathetic to my
client's situations and theexperiences that they have.
They're just not alwayshardships that will induce a
(19:10):
creditor to reduce the balanceRight.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So and they hear a lot of things.
It's like getting pulled overby the police when you're, you
know they hear a lot of excusesand they hear it all the time.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
So the creditors are the same way.
They deal with thousands ofpeople who tell them the same
thing over and over again andmost of the time, unfortunately,
the few bad apples spoil it forthe rest.
So you know, having somebodywho understands and can then
spin that and say you know,because in certain circumstances
we have let's go back to thatCOVID example clients that have
had COVID and now can never workfor the rest of their life.
(19:42):
And we do have a client who wasunfortunately hospitalized for
six months and then had a heartattack and all kinds of other
issues that then becamechallenging for that client to
keep up with their bills anddebts and we needed to advocate
for them.
But again, a basic, simplelittle situation.
You know, while you might thinkis a hardship, the creditor
doesn't.
So I'm just using that, youknow, for our explanatory
(20:06):
purposes.
But I will again caveat thatwith none of that is my opinion.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Well, since you mentioned COVID, how have you
seen debt change, or have youseen it change in relationship
to the impact of COVID and justinflation in general?
Speaker 1 (20:22):
So I'll start it from where we are now.
So inflation is coming down, sothe interest rates are coming
down.
It's taken a long time.
Covid messed everything up inshort, sweet language and it
caused lots of challenges forconsumers and businesses and
that trickled down and tookyears now years to try to clean
(20:43):
up and fix.
So what we're seeing now isobviously the effects of that
situation where the goods andservices have now increased and
become very expensive, situationwhere the goods and services
have now increased and becomevery expensive.
We're hopefully on the otherside of that and it seems as
though, economically speaking,that those numbers are coming
(21:04):
down.
And I say it economicallybecause it hasn't necessarily
trickled down to the consumeryet.
So that's why not everybodynecessarily feels the impact of
the changes that have gone on orare going on.
And you know, what remains to beseen is kind of a good guess.
You know, we had many, manyyears with low interest rates
and that benefited peoplegreatly.
But the COVID-19 pandemic thatdidn't just hit our country but
(21:24):
impacted situations around theworld, left us with, you know,
holding the bag of veryexpensive goods and services,
and so, unfortunately, thatcreated a situation where and
limited jobs.
In the beginning it's not somuch now but again.
Media post-COVID waschallenging job-wise and that
left a lot of consumerschallenged with how they're
going to meet their obligations.
(21:45):
So expenses went up, jobopportunities went down, income
stayed the same and now it's aperfect storm for those people
to get into debt.
And there are a lot of peoplethat are struggling as a result
of that perfect storm.
So interest rates coming downquarter percent, half a percent,
even a whole percent, it takestime to trickle down.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
And same thing with inflation and when inflation
changes and alters, it doesn'thappen immediately, it doesn't
trickle down to us as theconsumers immediately.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
It takes time for that to even out and we may not
see those changes for a year ortwo, and so, as a consumer, you
have to be able to roll withthese changes.
Unfortunately, and living onthe edge with no money in the
bank and paycheck to paycheckwill leave you, as a consumer,
very vulnerable.
So, overall, your goal on theend of these things, and really
(22:35):
what any consumer and businessowner should have learned from
what we went through is thatmoney in the bank is key, but
getting money in the bank isdifficult, and to get money in
the bank, you have to limit yourexposure to debt and expenses
and try to keep expenses down.
Easier said than done, but itis the best way to limit your
exposure.
(22:55):
Now having debt is not a bigdeal and I wrote a book about
that the Life in Debt.
Having debt is totally okay,but it's a matter of how you
manage it and how it fits intoyour life and what you do with
it.
That makes it work for you.
And when we have changes likethis in our economy, when we
have changes in presidencies,when we have changes in a COVID
(23:17):
situation, which hopefully is aonce in a lifetime for all of us
.
You know when you have changesand things impact it, you have
wars that are occurring overseasthat impact things here back in
this country.
So you know it's not just oneconflict.
There's conflicts all over theworld that are causing
challenges.
Not just one conflict, there'sconflicts all over the world
that are causing challenges.
All that ultimately impacts usas consumers and really the best
(23:39):
way to insulate yourself fromthat and ride the wave of
challenges financially is moneyin the bank, and it's again not
an easy thing, but overall thatshould be the goal.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
So you mentioned, having a little debt is okay.
So what is your advice forpeople who've cleared up their
debt and want to make sure theyavoid falling back into that
debt trap again?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
really empowering statement and empowering
experience and appreciate whatyou came from and how difficult
it was to get out of debt.
The goal at that point is notonly to be grateful of it but
(24:18):
also to look at what you coulddo to avoid that, going forward,
limiting your exposure to that,to debt situations.
Debt situations are jobinstability, adding things to
your household that you can'tafford biting off more than you
can chew, and you know it's notan easy way to stay ahead of the
(24:39):
wave and ahead of that curve.
But the best way to do that isto regularly check in with your
money and finances.
You need to make your moneyyour best friend and a happy
relationship with bills.
You know the bills come, I'mhappy to pay them.
You know I understand that Ihave an obligation and I write
my checks out happily withpositive energy, and I spend a
lot of time dealing with a lotof negativity, you know from my
(25:03):
clients in terms of what they'reexperiencing.
But I look at everything as apositive experience and I think
it's the relationship you createwith your money and your and
your debt that really couldchange your future.
You have to look at it as apositive experience.
It's OK to have debt.
It's OK to have had debt, tohave been in debt, it's OK, even
(25:23):
if you had to file bankruptcyand all that's OK, so long as
you learn something from it andyou can take that into the
future and you can say you know,I learned my lesson and here's
what I need to do and creatingthose boundaries.
You know, self-preservation,self-protection when it comes to
that, and preserving andprotecting your money and your
finances and your future isreally important.
(25:44):
Not letting others influenceyour decision making about money
, being independent, even if itmeans conflict with those that
you love about your money and Iknow that's super hard for
people, especially this time ofyear, with the holidays coming.
You know it's really diggingyour heels in and saying I
understand that you're not goingto be happy with my decision,
but this is what's best for meand my money and I and I need to
(26:05):
protect that, and if you canstay focused on that that is
your number one goal then Ithink that you can achieve
financial health and wellnessongoing.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
But you have to check in with yourself what makes you
feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1 (26:19):
Also, you know in your gut when you're doing the
right thing or not doing theright thing.
So all of that requires a lotof awareness.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
So you mentioned you wrote a book.
Can you give us just a littleshort snippet about what that
book is about?
And then if there are any otherresources or tools that you
that you'd recommend for peopleto look into that want to learn
more about managing their debt.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
So there is a lot of information online and I know
that that could be reallyconfusing and kind of
overwhelming.
So, as far as resources andtools, I find that when I talk
to different clients about youknow what works for them, it
doesn't work for them.
You know, sometimes people haveto hear it different ways.
So I'm a big fan of listeningto you know like a Money Matters
(27:04):
podcast, so that you can hearit from different people Like
where is it resonating for you?
I mean, where can you find yourinspiration?
You know there are lots ofresources to help you with
budgeting.
There are lots of resources tostay out of debt.
Your bank, right at your banks,have tools to help you with
that.
There's blog articles and otherthings.
But to really be effective withthe information, you have to
(27:27):
understand kind of the basicsand how does it resonate and
relate to you.
So I think that reallyunderstanding your relationship
with money is the first step infinding the appropriate
resources and, while you know,for me to advocate for one or
two different resources would beremiss in understanding what
(27:48):
the needs are and the variousneeds of all the different
people who are listening andunderstanding that.
You know this is it's not aneasy road, it just isn't.
And staying on that road, youknow I was a single parent with.
I still am a single parent withthree children.
I raised my kids alone sincethey were five and seven, and
there's a lot that changes overthose years.
Building a business, paying offmy student loans, raising three
(28:10):
children in a very competitiveenvironment.
You know, dealing with all thethings that happen along that
way and keeping my head abovewater and not getting into debt
requires a tremendous consciouseffort, and you, too, can be
there.
It's just.
It's a commitment to yourselfand to your family and to your
goals to do that.
And the resources that I'veused are a lot are actually
(28:34):
outside the financial world.
You know really understandingmyself as a person and being
able to be in calm spaces,clearing my head, maybe taking a
walk, getting some time awayfrom the kids, or, you know,
significant others, and you know, staying away from toxic
environments and toxic people,so that you know I can achieve
what I'm looking to achieve andnot allow that to suck me in.
(28:57):
And so you know I've used lotsof different resources over the
years, from online banking toolsto books, to podcasts, to
different apps that have reallyhelped me get to where I am.
There's not one tool that'sgoing to work for one person.
It's a combination of differentthings that are going to work
for you, and it's going tochange over time.
(29:17):
If you're in the middle of adivorce, you're in a storm and
when you get on the other sideof that, you're going to need
different resources than youneeded during that divorce.
Pre-divorce.
If you had a spouse orsignificant other pass away,
you're also in a differentsituation.
And so if you've just finishedcollege or graduate school and
you're in debt and you're tryingto make your way in the world,
(29:37):
your resources and needs aregoing to be different than you
are on the other side of that.
You know, 10 years later, whenyou have a family and you're
balancing different things.
So your needs and resources aregoing to change over the years
and it's OK that you outgrowthem or they no longer serve you
and don't work for you.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
And if you read something that somebody else is
a huge advocate of, but didn'twork for you.
That's okay.
Well, Leslie, I want to wrap upwith asking you this question
what's the most rewarding partof helping people overcome their
debt challenges?
And then, how can our listenersreach out to you if they want
to get more information?
Speaker 1 (30:16):
So I absolutely love what I do and the most rewarding
piece is that is when I talk toa client, I tell them that they
finished their, finished payingoff their debt, or I call them
with a settlement, and therelief that they feel I hear on
the other side is is soincredibly rewarding.
I mean, I can fix any of thesefinancial challenges for anybody
.
There hasn't been a ball Ihaven't been able to hit, and
(30:36):
it's incredibly empowering to doso on behalf of clients and
help shape and change what mightbe their world and their
family's world so that they canexist peacefully.
You know, my overall goal in mylife is a peaceful, happy
existence and I hope that in thethroes of what's negative here
finances and debt that that halfglass is half full and
positivity comes through, and sothat to me, is the most
(31:01):
rewarding piece of what I dohere.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I absolutely agree with you there.
And how can our listeners reachout to you if they want to
learn more information?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
So many ways to find me on the internet, so you can
certainly put my name in asearch engine.
We're on X and LinkedIn andInstagram, tiktok.
Everything is either at LeslieH Tain, esq or Tain Law Group.
You're welcome to put that intoany search term and find us and
certainly reach out on anysocial media.
We do monitor that and we'llrespond to any DMs or anything
(31:33):
that comes through.
And you're welcome to give us acall at the office at
866-890-7337.
All of our consultations arefree, but I do want to say that
the consultations talk to us isfree but that there is a cost to
do work for you, but they'realways.
The consultation andconversation is free and I
welcome any feedback andconversations about anything
(31:54):
debt related and if I can guideyou, I certainly will.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Well, Leslie, thank you so much for taking the time
to share your expertise with ourlisteners.
I am sure they took away a lotof good information and I hope
that I can have you back soon.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Thank you for having me.
It was a pleasure you forhaving me.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
It was a pleasure.
Now it's time for our blueprintbuilding blocks.
These are actionable steps thatcan turn your ideas into
progress and help you along theway.
So for this episode, list andprioritize your debts.
Start by listing all of yourdebts, including the balances,
the rates, the minimum payments.
You really need to understandwho you owe and what you owe.
Create a spending plan.
That's another way of talkingabout the B word a budget.
(32:40):
Setting a monthly budget thataccounts for all of your regular
expenses and includes an amountthat you can consistently pay
towards your debt will help youstart paying off the debt little
by little.
Then reach out for professionalhelp If your debt feels
unmanageable.
Talk to someone.
Neighbors offers free financialcounseling.
Just make sure that you dowhat's comfortable for you.
(33:03):
And finally, for moreinformation, log on to
neighborsfcuorg forward slashfinancialeducationorg.
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