October 8, 2025 • 40 mins
We unpack why money talks feel heavy and show how to make them safe, honest, and useful. Ericka Young shares her $90K debt payoff story, how “play money” reduced friction, and practical ways to teach kids about money without passing along anxiety.
• the real reasons couples avoid money talks
• using your money past to lower defensiveness
• saver vs spender dynamics and finding balance
• autonomy with transparency through “yours, mine, ours”
• simple openers and ground rules for hard talks
• when to call a coach or therapist
• practical ways to teach kids give, save, spend
• language shifts that reduce money stress at home
• small weekly check-ins that build trust
• Ericka’s work with financial education and coaching
You can see more from Ericka at erickayoung.com and forbetterandworth.com
Subscribe to the Money Matters Podcast, and visit neighborsfcu.org/financialwellness for more tools to help you build a strong financial future.
Have an idea for a show or a question for Kim? Send us a text message
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want – brought to you by Neighbors Federal Credit Union.
The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (00:03):
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that
focuses on how to use the moneyyou have, make the money you
need, and save the money youwant.
Now, here is your host, Ms.
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
Kim Chapman.
Welcome to another edition ofMoney Matters, where we talk
about how to use the money youhave, make the money you need,
and save the money you want.
And the key word here is talkabout money.
It is such a difficultconversation sometimes.
And so today we're going to talkabout how do you have those
(00:33):
money discussions?
Because when you think about it,it impacts every relationship
that you have.
So whether you have a spouse, apartner, if you have kids, money
impacts that relationship.
So joining me today, because Ican't have this conversation by
myself, is Miss Erica Young,founder of Tailor Made Budgets.
Good morning, Erica, and thankyou for joining me.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Good morning.
So good to be here.
And I love talking about money.
So we are going to have a good.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
Some people don't like talking about money.
I love talking about money.
You love talking about money.
So maybe by the end of thisepisode, we can convince other
people that it's not such a badconversation to have.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Yeah.
Actually, that's my hope, right?
Is to normalize the conversationand make it one that is easier,
more enjoyable, and fruitful inthe end for those who decide to
partake.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
Kick off talking about why do you love talking
about money?
What is your background inmoney?
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Well, I'm an engineer by trade, and I
stumbled into a moneyconversation because my husband
and I found ourselves in over$60,000 in debt when we got
married in our early 20s.
And then that increased when wehad kids.
Of course, they add they areexpensive, and we wanted more,
(02:00):
you know, safer, reliablevehicles.
And that brought our debt totalup to about 90 grand.
And so in the first five yearsof our relationship, we
committed to getting free of all$90,000 in debt.
And because that required us toreally understand what we were
trying to do and how to do thatas a team, those conversations,
(02:24):
even when there was tensionaround them, we were really
wanting to make that a highpriority in our relationship,
especially since mostrelationships, when they're
having challenges, the causes alot of tension in relationships
is that money matter.
And so we did not want that tobe our story.
And um, we wanted obviously toend up, you know, staying
(02:48):
married for a lifetime.
And so we worked on the hardestthing, honestly.
And um, so far it's paid off.
27 years married and no debt tospeak of right now.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
I heard you say that key word tension, that there
were times that there weretension when you talked about
it.
Why do you think couples find itso difficult to talk about
money?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
There's a lot of reasons.
One is we make our money, wewant to hold on to our money, we
feel like it's ours, like mine,versus ours being a team effort
in terms of how we manage themoney.
And then another reason whypeople tend to not want to
discuss it is embarrassment,shame, regret, remorse over the
(03:28):
things that they've done withtheir money.
And they just really don't wantto disclose that.
So when we're thinking aboutsharing credit reports, for
instance, um, what is on there,debt amounts, things like that,
or even our daily behavior,sometimes it's embarrassing.
And I think another reason whywe don't talk about it is
because we really want to feelindependent.
(03:49):
We don't want to have to answerto somebody about our numbers.
And so I think with couples,that can just create tension on
many different levels.
Um, there's also just incomeinequalities, right?
And so one person may makesubstantially more than the
other and that kind of thing.
And so it causes a powerdisparity potentially.
(04:11):
And so there can be a myriad ofreasons why people don't want to
talk about money.
I like to make the conversationeasier by not even talking about
today's issues with money andstarting with our money past and
what we learned growing up andwhat we did with money when we
first started making it and whatwe witnessed in our um families
(04:35):
of origin.
And so when we go back into ourpast, that tends to make the
conversation less accusatory andmore informational around this
is how I was made, I was built,this is what I learned.
And understanding can beginthere.
So that's typically that'shonestly, I'll be honest, I
(04:56):
learned that by watchinghundreds of clients um struggle
with money conversations andrealizing that it's so much less
intrusive to just talk about howyou were raised and your first
interactions with money.
And so that can be a gatewayinto having more challenging or
deep conversations around thesubject.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
So how do you start that conversation?
If somebody's listening andthey're thinking, okay, this is
going to be empowering for me,how do you, what are those first
words?
How do you start thatconversation?
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
It honestly depends on where you are in the
relationship, right?
And how much trust has beenbuilt.
Um, and people know that forthemselves.
They know if the conversationneeds to begin with um, how much
do you tip and tell me moreabout, you know, what makes you
do that, um, to deeperconversations around, you know,
your money past and what yourparents taught you and as a
(05:53):
child, what you saw in terms ofyour family structure.
Um, so for instance, it's easyfor me to talk about the fact
that I came from a single parenthousehold and how challenging it
was for my mother to really justmake ends meet.
And so while we lived in thesuburbs, um we didn't
necessarily have all the thingsthat everybody else around me
(06:14):
had.
Um, she just wanted to ensurethat there was a safe
environment.
And when someone knows thatabout me, then they can
understand what why frugalityhas has become so important to
me or um my hesitancy to spendlarger sums of money.
Because frankly, those were notthings.
I mean, we we had to be frugal,we had to wait till payday, we
(06:35):
um didn't have extra sums ofmoney, there wasn't um frivolous
spending of any sort.
And so that is essentially how Iwas built.
And so um, when when my husbandcan understand that, then he
can, you know, talk with me,walk with me, work with me in
regards to that in a more lovingand understanding way.
(06:55):
And so I know that he can handlethat conversation.
Whereas, you know, on your sicksecond date, like I don't think
that's necessarily gonna happen,but I do think um, as more trust
is built, the deeperconversations can be had.
And so it can begin with aconversation around tipping, it
can begin around the type ofwork that you have.
It can start with your first jobas a young person and what that
(07:20):
meant to you and what you didwith those funds.
Um, I just think sometimes it'sreally easier to make it
lighthearted than super deep andsee where those conversations
go.
I do, however, think you need toset some ground rules.
I I always like to say whenwe're talking about money, just
say, hey, there's no judgmenthere.
Um, and you want to listen morethan you talk if if the
(07:44):
questions are being um posed byyou?
And so so I think, you know,making sure that it's a safe
space is really important,especially when you haven't had
conversations like this before.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
So thinking back in your own situation, I want to
talk a little bit about moneypersonalities.
Would you say that you and yourhusband had the same money
personality?
And then how big a role dodifferent money personalities
play in having thoseconversations?
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
Well, first they play a huge role because no two
people are alike.
We're all unique and ourexperiences are unique, and what
we bring to the table is alsounique.
And so I think it's important torespect different money
personalities.
Now, I'll just speak on two ofthem.
One is a saver and a spender.
(08:31):
Um, early on, I was the saver.
I just really wanted to ensurethat my future was gonna be
secure.
Um I had fear, not reallyanxiety, but I just had concern
that if I didn't save enough,like I knew that nobody would
else would be able to take careof me.
I had I was not a trust fundkid.
(08:52):
Like there was no money comingmy way, right?
Um, when my parents made theirtransition.
And so I I needed to know that Icould take care of myself.
And so I was a saver.
My husband is a spender, he justlikes nicer things, if you will.
And so when we first gottogether, um, he would be the
one whose wardrobe was way moreexpensive than mine.
(09:14):
He would be the one who umdidn't hesitate to to spend
money on different things.
Whereas I always hesitated and Ialways felt like I needed to um
to wait and sleep on thoseconversations around bigger
picture items.
And and now sometimes I findthat it didn't depends on what
(09:35):
it is.
I'm definitely more of a spenderwhen it comes to clothing and
shopping, and I love travel now.
Um, and there are certain thingsthat he's more frugal on, and
he's like, it's not worth it tome to spend money on that.
And so um I have found that it'sdifferent areas for different
people.
(09:55):
Um, and we both enjoy, you know,we think it's really important
to save for our future.
And so we definitely online onthat.
Um, but I think, you know, interms of those two major
personalities, I think weflip-flop a little bit.
We started in one area, and Ithink over time um we've rubbed
off on each other a little bit.
And so while that can be good,we just, you know, we make sure
(10:17):
that our savings is onautopilot.
So nothing that we do is goingto derail that progress.
But yeah, money personalitiescan change.
And I think a lot of times forpeople, it's broader.
It can be broader than um just aspender or a saver.
I think it can be even morenuanced than that.
Um, but when you understand whoyou are, it helps other people
(10:39):
to understand you a little bitbetter too.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
When I think of those money personalities, and
especially when they're theopposite, like you said, the
spender, the saver.
I picture a seesaw and thatstruggle to find balance.
You've got one person way uphere, you know, being dominant.
I want to save.
Then you've got somebody, thenthey're up in the air.
No, I want to be the spender.
But it's almost like trying tofind that that perfect balance,
(11:01):
like you can with the seesaw,right?
But kids don't even know whatthat feels like anymore.
They don't play on theplayground.
So one of the keywords that youtalked about earlier is trust,
right?
Building that trust in arelationship.
How big a role is transparency?
Because, you know, we want tohave our independence and we
want to have that connectingunit, but how can you have that
(11:24):
connecting unit remainindependent, but be transparent?
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Yeah, I honestly do think for a long time, I'll be
honest, for a long time Ithought one checking account,
one saving account, no nosecrets, right?
Like I was of the camp ofeverything in one pot.
Um, and in some regards, thatworks for people.
And for others, it doesn't.
Some people need more autonomyuh for their finances
(11:53):
themselves, as long as there'sno secrets, right?
So for instance, I have for someof my clients, um, because now
that you know I've been afinancial coach for 20 years,
I've worked with hundreds ofdifferent people, and um,
obviously all people aredifferent and and unique
circumstances can arise.
But I also think autonomy is ahuge deal.
(12:16):
And so sometimes it's yours,mine, ours, as long as yours and
mine are not hidden.
And so, in budgeting,practically speaking, sometimes
it turns into we are designatingthis dollar amount to go into
each of our accounts, ourseparate accounts, but the rest
of it goes to the householdunit, right?
(12:39):
And they can determine how muchit is that stays in separate
accounts so that they don't haveto justify their Starbucks latte
or they don't have to justifygoing out to um golf with the
fellas or whatever it is.
It is really, I set aside, weboth agree to what these dollar
(12:59):
amounts amounts are that are inthese potential separate
accounts.
Um and so, for instance, so wedon't necessarily my husband and
I don't have separate checkingaccounts.
However, he does have his playmoney.
We call it his play money, andhe just takes it out the bank
every or out the credit unionevery, you know, two weeks.
And it builds up.
And so one day he was like, Iwant to go get a bike.
(13:22):
And I was like, okay.
And you know, my husband doesn'tdo anything small, nothing at
all.
And so I was like, okay, howmuch is that?
And I mean, it wasn't an I mean,it was over a thousand dollar
bike.
And I'm thinking, are youserious right now?
And it was Christmas time, andI'm thinking, really, right now.
And he's like, Don't worry, Igot my play money that I've been
(13:44):
setting aside.
And, you know, so come with meand let's look at these bikes
and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
And I was like, okay.
So a part of me relaxedtremendously that that knew,
like, he's not gonna be sospontaneous that he wants to
just spend a thousand dollars orwhatever it was in the heat of
the moment.
He had been pl saving formonths, actually.
(14:07):
Um, and he had those dollars.
And so that works for him.
Me, I don't think I have in our27-year relationship spent a
thousand dollars on any onething unless it was a gift he
gave me or something like that.
Like, that's not, I'll spend iton travel, but I'm not, I don't
think I have anything.
Not a purse, not nothing,anything that's not even my
(14:28):
bike.
I'm like, but he knows I thinkit works for both of us because
in the budget, we have this lineitem.
And then he also just saves itand he doesn't spend money a
lot, but when he does, it's likea big punch, right?
So he'll buy a suit and it's$500, but he has his money that
(14:50):
he's been setting aside.
So I think that um it that canwork for people and it reduces
stress around the question, canwe afford it?
It really is, I set money asidealready, or I have money in this
account that we've alreadydiscussed, and I just want to
(15:10):
make this decision, and thenit's it just reduces any of the
anxiety that could potentiallycome.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
You have to ask that you did he get the bike and did
you ride it?
Does it feel like a thousanddollars when your hair is
blowing in the wind?
SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
I listen, I do not ride that.
I ride my bike that is sixhundred dollars.
He got his bike and he enjoysit, and he's had it for several
years.
I mean, he he enjoys his bike.
Um, so hey, more power to him,but I just didn't think I needed
to spend that kind of money.
So I got something that was likehalf the price.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
So in a perfect world, all these stories would
win, like what would you know,end up like this.
But we know we don't live inthat perfect world.
So at what point should a couplerecognize that they need maybe
some outside help, maybe like aprofessional financial
counselor?
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
That's so good.
Um, and I think people can go toa count a professional financial
counselor, coach, therapist, orjust a coach, therapist,
counselor who isn't specific tomoney.
Here's why.
Because if communication isbroken down, this is one sign.
(16:18):
You have a hard time justtalking about money, the bills
that are due, um, the goals thatyou have, and you need a safe
space to be able to do so, thatmediary could be that person.
And it likely this is not theonly area.
Finances may not be the onlyarea in which the conversations
are difficult between you.
(16:39):
Um, obviously, trust, where youjust don't believe that they are
going to do or say what they,you know, it just the
follow-through just isn't there.
Um, so for instance, if billsaren't getting paid on time, um,
if debt is racking up, thosekinds of warning signs.
(16:59):
Um and, you know, I also thinkif specifically if you are
looking, if you're needing afinancial counselor, I would say
if you have goals that you'vebeen trying to reach and you
just haven't been able to getthere, right?
So something is in the way.
There's some, it could just betension in your relationship
with money or in the way thatyou are, your methodology around
(17:22):
how you're trying to do it, oryou can't agree on what it looks
like to achieve these financialgoals.
That's, I think, when you need afinancial professional to help
you.
Um, and you've been circlingthat same mountain for a couple
of years.
Um, so we're wasting time if wecontinue to circle the same
(17:46):
mountain.
And so I would encourage you toseek the help of a professional
if that is the case.
Um, and I think there's no shamein that.
I I applaud, admire, and respectanyone who understands where
they are not 100% strong in toget stronger with the help of
(18:06):
someone else.
And so um take that as a sign,communication, trust.
Um, those are the biggies.
Um, but if you are stillcircling goals for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
I know you work a lot with couples.
I do too, but I think you see alot more couples than I do.
Early on in relationships, howearly in a relationship, even
somebody that's not married,should those couples start
having those conversations?
What are the things that youshould be looking for in your
partner financially in terms ofis this a good fit?
(18:40):
Are we going to be able tobalance this seesaw?
It's okay that we're opposites,but what are those things that
we should be looking for?
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
That's a really good question.
So one thing that I'll say abouta spender and a saver is that it
is best, to be honest, ifthere's one of each in the
relationship, because thespender helps you have fun,
okay?
And the saver makes sure youhave a future.
So both of them, it would begreat to have both of them in a
(19:10):
relationship.
So um when people are dating,you can begin to tell if they're
just as a free spirit as youare, right?
If they don't care anythingabout the future, if um, in
terms of saving for it, theylive for the moment.
Um, but you know if I start, I Ihonestly think just start paying
(19:35):
attention first.
Like literally just startlooking at their behaviors and
habits.
Um, do they keep cash on thehand?
Um, are they always, you know,reducing reducing what it is
that they do because they don'thave the funds to do so?
Um, are they overspending?
Are or are they, you know,people who like all of the nicer
(19:56):
things?
I mean, there can be lots ofthings to be watching out for,
even before you begin havingconversations.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
And so I'll switch gears just a little bit.
We've been talking a lot aboutcouples and just the tension
that couples have when they'retalking about money, but we know
often they're children.
And sometimes, you know, youlaughed and we talked about in
the beginning that how expensivechildren can be.
And so just the expensive costand things that add to a family
(20:22):
dynamic, but children need tolearn about money too.
And so, how can we have thoseconversations with our children?
When should we even start tohave conversations with
children?
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
I think the biggest thing that we can do with our
kids, excuse me, I think thebiggest thing that we can do
with our kids is let themwitness what we do.
They will model what they seepeople doing.
So talk to them in and honestly,you know, if they're less than
(20:56):
three or four, they're notpaying enough attention, their
attention span is very short.
But let's just talk about afive-year-old, a six-year-old,
someone, I mean, they are veryattentive and they love
learning, especially when it'snot the formal kind of learning,
right?
And so you can haveconversations about, you know,
(21:18):
using your debit card and whatit takes.
Like, I mean, it's very commonfor parents to say, make sure
you close the refrigerator, youknow, like that's electricity
right there.
Help them to understand it.
It is, it is, right?
Um, turn the light off whenyou're done, right?
And so these kinds of things arelike tying it to money.
(21:40):
Now, we don't want them to beoverly worried about every
single thing that thing thatthey do.
But by the time they begin to be11, 12, 13, they fully
understand that they areconnected because you've been
having this conversation.
One of the biggest things thatmisses that I see pe parents
make is trying to protect theirkids from the places where
(22:02):
parents have made mistakes ortripped over themselves or done
things that they wish they hadnot with money, they don't say
it to their kids.
And so they're they're shieldingthem from real life.
And and what I think is achallenge for kids now is to
understand that everything isn'tgoing to be perfect, right?
And um incomes vary, lifesituations vary, where you live
(22:27):
has a cost to it.
And I think as they get older,it is important to have
age-appropriate conversationswith them around what that looks
like.
And by the time a child is 15 or16, they should know what a
carved vehicle costs, right?
And they should know um what ittakes, right, to maintain that
vehicle.
So one of the biggest lessonsthat we taught our kids at that
(22:50):
age is you, we, first of all,you're getting your license, you
will have a vehicle so you cantake yourself to and from all
the places.
Um, and we'll pay for half ofthat car.
You save up your money and wewill match what you save.
And so our first daughter got acar that was$3,800 because she
saved$1,900.
(23:10):
Um, and our second daughter gota car that was$5,600 and she
saved half of that.
And so, and that pride inownership is huge for young
people.
And so they treat that thosevehicles better.
Um, they named their cars.
Um, they were sad.
I mean, frankly, my oldest, shedid hit the house and she lost
(23:34):
her rear view mirror, her sidemirror, rather.
Um, and she learned how to putit back on because my husband
helped her to find a mirror toput on and taught her how to put
it on.
And these things are important,right?
And getting a car wash andputting gas in the car.
And so, but it was aprogression.
I mean, we we taught work andreward at young ages.
(23:57):
Um, so between the ages of fiveand 10 for sure, um, you you do
chores and you get paid um forthose things.
And so I think it's importantthat we make it a part of life,
not all of life, but a part oflife um all throughout and don't
wait into this magic number.
12 is not the magic number.
(24:17):
Um, if a if a child is learningat 12 and they have never heard
of what it means to have a debitcard or what money looks like in
their hand, that kind of stuff.
I mean, it's it's it's a largeruphill swing, right?
But if you start younger, um, Ithink that that can be
beneficial.
But there's lots of ways, bookseven, I mean, we've read books
(24:38):
with our kids, we've had um, youknow, watch videos and things
like that just to sprinkle in umeducational opportunities at
home because frankly, they don'tget it, you know, around money
in school for a long time.
It's not really till high schoolthat they really start talking
about money for real.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
And so, you know, we're talking about how do you
have those conversations, but Ido want to take a minute and
say, how do we actually showthem?
For example, I remember my dadalways talked about saving and
that you should do it, right?
That's talking the talk.
But how do you actually sit downand really show your kids what
saving money looks like so thatthey can really pick that up as
(25:14):
a habit?
And obviously, the earlier theydevelop that habit, the better
off they will be in anybody thatlearns that particular habit.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Well, it can start with something that they're
interested in, right?
So Barbie dolls are not cheap,right?
So if you want a Barbie house orwhatever it is, I mean, if that
thing is$50 and you have beengiving them, you know, their
work and reward, right?
So they had a chore, chores thatthey were doing over time and
(25:46):
they are setting aside$5 a weekor whatever it is, I think that
that can be an easy way to helpthem understand how to save for
something they want.
Um, frankly, a lot of youngpeople can't really have
accounts necessarily untilthey're, you know, teenager-ish,
you know, age.
(26:07):
But I think up until that point,it'd be great to save it in
cash, um, put it in envelopes,have it at the house, let them
literally feel the money intheir hands for what they
desire.
I'd like for young people tolearn to give, save, and spend,
and they have three envelopes,you know, and we've our our
(26:27):
society has gotten away fromcash.
But I think it's kids are sovisual and they need that.
And so I think having, you know,ensuring that each time that
they earn dollars, that they putsome in each one of those
envelopes.
And we actually painted littlepiggy banks.
We made little boxes for theirgive, save, spend.
(26:48):
Um, and you can capitalize onmaking it fun at young ages.
It's when they get to beteenagers and they're able to
actually have accounts that ummaking it maybe automatic or
putting a portion of their, youknow, lawn mowing dollars into
savings makes it real.
But I think it's important thatum we start with that physical
(27:12):
$5,$1 in hand for them toactually connect with the fact
that it's money.
Because once we startintroducing debit cards and
virtual money on a phone and allthat kind of stuff, I mean, um,
the connection to how real it isand its finality really, um,
sometimes get lost, even withadults.
(27:32):
So I I like to say for younger,for the younger population, they
need to have the dollars inhand.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
I agree.
I was gonna, I was gonna makethat same comment that not only
is it important for children tohave that connection, but I
think even for adults, you know,if you talk to an adult, they'll
tell you it's a lot harder topart with a physical$20 bill
than it is to swipe that debitcard for$20.
And so sometimes cash as kingreally, really can have a role.
(28:00):
So earlier we talked a littlebit about, you know,
instinctively as parents, wewant to shield our kids from all
the negative stuff.
But at the same time, we wantthem to know the reality of
life, right?
That sometimes there's gonna beups and downs with money.
So, how do you find that balancebetween keeping them shielded to
(28:20):
where they're not sleeping, youknow, having sleepless nights,
like, oh, how's the light billgonna get paid?
How am I gonna pay for my promdress?
But also letting them understandthat sometimes it's give and
take, and sometimes we justdon't have enough money to
purchase everything that theywant.
SPEAKER_01 (28:35):
Yeah.
I think we have to really payattention to our money messages.
So um it's important to haveage-appropriate money messages,
right?
And so it there's something tobe said for saying we don't have
the money versus we need tofigure out how to put that in
the budget for next month.
(28:57):
Or uh, and so these are messagesthat we hear.
I heard um we're broke, waittill payday, you know, we don't
have the money.
I heard those things over andover and over again.
Um and those get deeplyingrained.
And so I like to say, let'screate a plan, let's figure out
(29:18):
how we can, let's see if this isimportant, does this fit into
our goals, those kinds of thingsversus we don't have it.
Um, and so shifting the languageis important.
But also the other thing is somethings you say and some things
you don't.
Like we're not necessarilytelling them how much we make
annually, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
Like, not everybody, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Exactly.
So my kids, they our kids didn'tknow um how much we made until
we started having the FAFSAconversations for college.
Like they might had have had anidea, but it wasn't until they
were like 18 that they actuallystarted realizing what it was
concretely, right?
And so But prior to that, thatwasn't a conversation that we
(30:03):
had.
Now we I have shown themelectric bills.
I have also shown them, likewe've we played games all the
time with groceries, you know,um, and let them see how much
things cost at the grocerystore.
That's such an easy way to helppeople help your children
connect with money.
Um and and then there were timeswhen they were young, I said,
(30:25):
all right, you both have$100.
I want you to write on paperwhich dining out places you want
to go to and how much you wouldspend at these places.
And so for 30 days, we just didthat.
Um, they led the way, right?
With where we decided to godining out.
And it it caused them to readthat caused them to say, I love
Chick-fil-A, but what I reallywant is their shake.
(30:45):
Like I'm not necessarilyinterested in everything else
because if I do that for thewhole family at the time was
going to be over$30,$40 just togo to Chick-fil-A.
And so she was like, hold on.
Are we good if we just, if, ifme and my sister get shakes, do
y'all care?
You know what I mean?
Like they were like criticallyleading.
(31:05):
Exactly.
And so th that made adifference, right?
Um and so, and there areexercises like when my daughter
did get a, you know, a debitcard when she was in a teenager
and she didn't realize how muchgetting cookies and snacks and
stuff at school was adding up.
And so we sat down one day and Iadded it up and I said, I want
you to tell me how much youthink you've spent on snacks
(31:27):
just at school for 30 days.
And she said, Oh, probably$10.
And then when we added it up, itwas over$30, almost$40.
And she was like, She no idea,right?
Um, but it makes sense.
If you're at school 20 days outof the month and she's spending
two bucks a day, like she justfor her, she just thought it was
(31:47):
so much less.
And so that was a reality checkfor her.
And so I just think that we canweave these conversations in um
and know that the one, theydon't have to know how much your
investments are.
They don't have to know um howmuch debt in total that you're
in.
Um, but I think my kids werealong the journey when we, well,
(32:08):
I should say my oldest was alongthe journey when we were getting
out of debt and we celebratedwhen we were out of debt.
She didn't know how much it was,but she was, you know, six years
old when we got out of debt.
And we celebrated, we let herknow, like, we're done with
debt.
We don't have any.
And she was like, so mommy, it'sdebit.
We we like debit, not debt.
(32:30):
And yes, she she had that in hermindset.
So um her, she wasn't afraid ofthe conversation around us being
in debt.
We learned to show her, hey, weare, we have a plan.
And so this is the plan in termsof we have a specific amount for
(32:51):
dining out or for toys orwhatever.
And when that money is done,it's done because we are our
goal is to get free of debt.
And so she was along thatjourney.
Again, we didn't tell her howmuch it was at the time, and we
didn't, you know, make her feellike she couldn't.
We just had healthy boundariesaround what we could say yes to
while we were on that journey.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
And so I want to talk a little bit just about the
benefits of financialcounseling, because of course,
sometimes those conversationscan be difficult.
And no matter what end of thespectrum you're on, you know,
you have two people talking, butthey're just not able to come on
the same page.
And it may not necessarily evenbe that there's a financial
difficulty, but financialcoaching, free good financial
(33:35):
counseling can really beimpactful and beneficial.
So talk a little bit about howimportant it is, whether you're
in a financial crisis or if youjust want to make sure that
you're doing the right thing,how important financial coaching
can be in someone's life.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
Well, it's it can be really helpful because we don't
know what we don't know, right?
We all have blind spots.
We all have places that um wecan't see because they're behind
us or what have you.
And a coach, a good counselorcan help bring that to the
forefront.
(34:13):
Um, they can say, have youthought about this?
They have great questions thathelp you to ponder, you know,
really all of your life choices,right?
So, so a good counselor can helpbring to light things that we
either suppress or we've neverreally thought about, or we're
scared to confront.
I also think that a greatcounselor coach will create an
(34:37):
environment where it's safeenough to say what you may not
have been able to say to yourpartner outside of that space or
to divulge.
Um, I had a woman come to me onetime and she said, I've got
$25,000 in debt and I have nottold my spouse.
And that is why he isn't herebecause I haven't shared that
(35:00):
with him yet.
And I said, Well, and I coachedher through what it looked like
to have this conversation withhim and um what made it so
important for her to share that.
And and I also needed tounderstand a bit more about his
mentality and where this concernand fear came from.
(35:23):
We definitely don't wantretaliation or anything like
that.
And and I believe she had a safespace at home.
It's just she just was living inher own shame.
And again, a coach can kind ofassess that.
I felt empowered.
Um, and we together realizedthat it's because the dollars
(35:47):
that we set aside for, you know,groceries, the kids, and all
that was not enough.
And I would overspend on credit,and it is just built this up.
And so we're reworking thingstogether.
And so um her feeling thatempowerment is came from a
conversation with the coach.
And so my hope is that anytimeyou go to a third party, be it a
(36:09):
therapist, counselor, coach,whatever, that in fact you are a
better human walking away.
Like you feel enlightened, youfeel lighter, you have more
ideas.
Um, you feel like you can go dothat very next thing, whatever
it is concerning your finances.
If you feel defeated, sad, um,still remorseful, carrying a lot
(36:31):
of shame and guilt, something isamiss.
And it's okay to find adifferent person.
Um, but I think that thebenefits outweigh the the
feeling of hesitation or concernyou might have on what will be
divulged, because I think it'simportant that um we live in a
(36:51):
space of honesty, even withourselves, right?
And um, if we have people whoare skilled in being able to
help people in this area, um,it's a just a win-win for
everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
Absolutely.
I mean, I think that key thingis, like you said, having that
open communication.
You made a really, really goodpoint earlier is that sometimes
we just don't know what we know.
It was actually when you weretalking about your daughter,
that made me think so many ofour clients, when we, you know,
see people for our blueprint forfinancial success, they come in
and they think, oh, I've onlybeen spending$200 a month on
(37:23):
this.
And then they realize aftergoing through financial
counseling that, oh, I've beenspending$500.
And just bringing that awarenesscan bring about change, can make
a big, big difference.
And so I really think it is suchan important part of having
those conversations.
If you can't have them on yourown, then seek somebody that can
definitely provide that servicefor you.
(37:44):
So, Erica, share with ourlisteners how they can reach out
to you, what you can do for themas we wrap up.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
I love that.
So you can find me on all thesocial platforms, Erica Young
Official on LinkedIn, Instagram,Facebook.
You can also um tune in to ourpodcast for better and worth.
My husband and I um have, as ourempty nester phase approached,
we decided to jump in and do apodcast of our own where we talk
(38:15):
about the intersection betweenrelationships and money and um
having conversations that, youknow, help you have that
relationship, but also buildwealth.
And um so, but the work that Ido is largely financial
education, training anddevelopment.
I love helping other coaches uplevel their skill sets.
Um, that is primarily the workthat I'm into, as well as
(38:38):
working with financialinstitutions, specifically
credit unions, ensure that umtheir internal teams are well
equipped to help people aroundcoaching as well as financial
education.
So Erica Young officials, thebest way to find me.
And then on my website, uhEricaYoung.com is where you can
get more information about whatthat looks like.
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
Well, thank you so much.
We'll have to continue thisconversation, and maybe next
time I'll come and join you onyour podcast.
Let's go.
All right, thank you, Erica.
SPEAKER_02 (39:11):
Thanks for having me.
It's time for blueprint buildingblocks.
Small changes that lead to bigfinancial wins.
Let's stack up for success.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Start the conversation.
Whether with your partner oryour kids, choose one small
money topic to talk about thisweek.
Keep it simple and judgmentfree.
Set a rhythm, schedule thoseregular check-ins with your
spouse or your partner aboutmoney.
Even 15 minutes once a week canmake a huge difference.
And then teach your kids byexample.
(39:47):
Kids learn by watching.
Let them see you budget, save,or even talk through a purchase
decision.
SPEAKER_02 (39:55):
That's a wrap on today's Blueprint Building
Blocks.
Stay on track with yourfinancial journey.
Subscribe to the Money MattersPodcast, and visit
neighborsfcu.org slash financialwellness for more tools to help
you build a strong financialfuture.
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that
focuses on how to use the moneyyou have, make the money you
need, and save the money youwant.
Now, here is your host, Ms.
SPEAKER_00 (00:13):
Kim Chapman.
Welcome to another edition ofMoney Matters, where we talk
about how to use the money youhave, make the money you need,
and save the money you want.
And the key word here is talkabout money.
It is such a difficultconversation sometimes.
And so today we're going to talkabout how do you have those
(00:33):
money discussions?
Because when you think about it,it impacts every relationship
that you have.
So whether you have a spouse, apartner, if you have kids, money
impacts that relationship.
So joining me today, because Ican't have this conversation by
myself, is Miss Erica Young,founder of Tailor Made Budgets.
Good morning, Erica, and thankyou for joining me.
SPEAKER_01 (00:56):
Good morning.
So good to be here.
And I love talking about money.
So we are going to have a good.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
Some people don't like talking about money.
I love talking about money.
You love talking about money.
So maybe by the end of thisepisode, we can convince other
people that it's not such a badconversation to have.
SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Yeah.
Actually, that's my hope, right?
Is to normalize the conversationand make it one that is easier,
more enjoyable, and fruitful inthe end for those who decide to
partake.
SPEAKER_00 (01:29):
Kick off talking about why do you love talking
about money?
What is your background inmoney?
SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
Well, I'm an engineer by trade, and I
stumbled into a moneyconversation because my husband
and I found ourselves in over$60,000 in debt when we got
married in our early 20s.
And then that increased when wehad kids.
Of course, they add they areexpensive, and we wanted more,
(02:00):
you know, safer, reliablevehicles.
And that brought our debt totalup to about 90 grand.
And so in the first five yearsof our relationship, we
committed to getting free of all$90,000 in debt.
And because that required us toreally understand what we were
trying to do and how to do thatas a team, those conversations,
(02:24):
even when there was tensionaround them, we were really
wanting to make that a highpriority in our relationship,
especially since mostrelationships, when they're
having challenges, the causes alot of tension in relationships
is that money matter.
And so we did not want that tobe our story.
And um, we wanted obviously toend up, you know, staying
(02:48):
married for a lifetime.
And so we worked on the hardestthing, honestly.
And um, so far it's paid off.
27 years married and no debt tospeak of right now.
SPEAKER_00 (02:59):
I heard you say that key word tension, that there
were times that there weretension when you talked about
it.
Why do you think couples find itso difficult to talk about
money?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
There's a lot of reasons.
One is we make our money, wewant to hold on to our money, we
feel like it's ours, like mine,versus ours being a team effort
in terms of how we manage themoney.
And then another reason whypeople tend to not want to
discuss it is embarrassment,shame, regret, remorse over the
(03:28):
things that they've done withtheir money.
And they just really don't wantto disclose that.
So when we're thinking aboutsharing credit reports, for
instance, um, what is on there,debt amounts, things like that,
or even our daily behavior,sometimes it's embarrassing.
And I think another reason whywe don't talk about it is
because we really want to feelindependent.
(03:49):
We don't want to have to answerto somebody about our numbers.
And so I think with couples,that can just create tension on
many different levels.
Um, there's also just incomeinequalities, right?
And so one person may makesubstantially more than the
other and that kind of thing.
And so it causes a powerdisparity potentially.
(04:11):
And so there can be a myriad ofreasons why people don't want to
talk about money.
I like to make the conversationeasier by not even talking about
today's issues with money andstarting with our money past and
what we learned growing up andwhat we did with money when we
first started making it and whatwe witnessed in our um families
(04:35):
of origin.
And so when we go back into ourpast, that tends to make the
conversation less accusatory andmore informational around this
is how I was made, I was built,this is what I learned.
And understanding can beginthere.
So that's typically that'shonestly, I'll be honest, I
(04:56):
learned that by watchinghundreds of clients um struggle
with money conversations andrealizing that it's so much less
intrusive to just talk about howyou were raised and your first
interactions with money.
And so that can be a gatewayinto having more challenging or
deep conversations around thesubject.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
So how do you start that conversation?
If somebody's listening andthey're thinking, okay, this is
going to be empowering for me,how do you, what are those first
words?
How do you start thatconversation?
SPEAKER_01 (05:29):
It honestly depends on where you are in the
relationship, right?
And how much trust has beenbuilt.
Um, and people know that forthemselves.
They know if the conversationneeds to begin with um, how much
do you tip and tell me moreabout, you know, what makes you
do that, um, to deeperconversations around, you know,
your money past and what yourparents taught you and as a
(05:53):
child, what you saw in terms ofyour family structure.
Um, so for instance, it's easyfor me to talk about the fact
that I came from a single parenthousehold and how challenging it
was for my mother to really justmake ends meet.
And so while we lived in thesuburbs, um we didn't
necessarily have all the thingsthat everybody else around me
(06:14):
had.
Um, she just wanted to ensurethat there was a safe
environment.
And when someone knows thatabout me, then they can
understand what why frugalityhas has become so important to
me or um my hesitancy to spendlarger sums of money.
Because frankly, those were notthings.
I mean, we we had to be frugal,we had to wait till payday, we
(06:35):
um didn't have extra sums ofmoney, there wasn't um frivolous
spending of any sort.
And so that is essentially how Iwas built.
And so um, when when my husbandcan understand that, then he
can, you know, talk with me,walk with me, work with me in
regards to that in a more lovingand understanding way.
(06:55):
And so I know that he can handlethat conversation.
Whereas, you know, on your sicksecond date, like I don't think
that's necessarily gonna happen,but I do think um, as more trust
is built, the deeperconversations can be had.
And so it can begin with aconversation around tipping, it
can begin around the type ofwork that you have.
It can start with your first jobas a young person and what that
(07:20):
meant to you and what you didwith those funds.
Um, I just think sometimes it'sreally easier to make it
lighthearted than super deep andsee where those conversations
go.
I do, however, think you need toset some ground rules.
I I always like to say whenwe're talking about money, just
say, hey, there's no judgmenthere.
Um, and you want to listen morethan you talk if if the
(07:44):
questions are being um posed byyou?
And so so I think, you know,making sure that it's a safe
space is really important,especially when you haven't had
conversations like this before.
SPEAKER_00 (07:55):
So thinking back in your own situation, I want to
talk a little bit about moneypersonalities.
Would you say that you and yourhusband had the same money
personality?
And then how big a role dodifferent money personalities
play in having thoseconversations?
SPEAKER_01 (08:10):
Well, first they play a huge role because no two
people are alike.
We're all unique and ourexperiences are unique, and what
we bring to the table is alsounique.
And so I think it's important torespect different money
personalities.
Now, I'll just speak on two ofthem.
One is a saver and a spender.
(08:31):
Um, early on, I was the saver.
I just really wanted to ensurethat my future was gonna be
secure.
Um I had fear, not reallyanxiety, but I just had concern
that if I didn't save enough,like I knew that nobody would
else would be able to take careof me.
I had I was not a trust fundkid.
(08:52):
Like there was no money comingmy way, right?
Um, when my parents made theirtransition.
And so I I needed to know that Icould take care of myself.
And so I was a saver.
My husband is a spender, he justlikes nicer things, if you will.
And so when we first gottogether, um, he would be the
one whose wardrobe was way moreexpensive than mine.
(09:14):
He would be the one who umdidn't hesitate to to spend
money on different things.
Whereas I always hesitated and Ialways felt like I needed to um
to wait and sleep on thoseconversations around bigger
picture items.
And and now sometimes I findthat it didn't depends on what
(09:35):
it is.
I'm definitely more of a spenderwhen it comes to clothing and
shopping, and I love travel now.
Um, and there are certain thingsthat he's more frugal on, and
he's like, it's not worth it tome to spend money on that.
And so um I have found that it'sdifferent areas for different
people.
(09:55):
Um, and we both enjoy, you know,we think it's really important
to save for our future.
And so we definitely online onthat.
Um, but I think, you know, interms of those two major
personalities, I think weflip-flop a little bit.
We started in one area, and Ithink over time um we've rubbed
off on each other a little bit.
And so while that can be good,we just, you know, we make sure
(10:17):
that our savings is onautopilot.
So nothing that we do is goingto derail that progress.
But yeah, money personalitiescan change.
And I think a lot of times forpeople, it's broader.
It can be broader than um just aspender or a saver.
I think it can be even morenuanced than that.
Um, but when you understand whoyou are, it helps other people
(10:39):
to understand you a little bitbetter too.
SPEAKER_00 (10:40):
When I think of those money personalities, and
especially when they're theopposite, like you said, the
spender, the saver.
I picture a seesaw and thatstruggle to find balance.
You've got one person way uphere, you know, being dominant.
I want to save.
Then you've got somebody, thenthey're up in the air.
No, I want to be the spender.
But it's almost like trying tofind that that perfect balance,
(11:01):
like you can with the seesaw,right?
But kids don't even know whatthat feels like anymore.
They don't play on theplayground.
So one of the keywords that youtalked about earlier is trust,
right?
Building that trust in arelationship.
How big a role is transparency?
Because, you know, we want tohave our independence and we
want to have that connectingunit, but how can you have that
(11:24):
connecting unit remainindependent, but be transparent?
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
Yeah, I honestly do think for a long time, I'll be
honest, for a long time Ithought one checking account,
one saving account, no nosecrets, right?
Like I was of the camp ofeverything in one pot.
Um, and in some regards, thatworks for people.
And for others, it doesn't.
Some people need more autonomyuh for their finances
(11:53):
themselves, as long as there'sno secrets, right?
So for instance, I have for someof my clients, um, because now
that you know I've been afinancial coach for 20 years,
I've worked with hundreds ofdifferent people, and um,
obviously all people aredifferent and and unique
circumstances can arise.
But I also think autonomy is ahuge deal.
(12:16):
And so sometimes it's yours,mine, ours, as long as yours and
mine are not hidden.
And so, in budgeting,practically speaking, sometimes
it turns into we are designatingthis dollar amount to go into
each of our accounts, ourseparate accounts, but the rest
of it goes to the householdunit, right?
(12:39):
And they can determine how muchit is that stays in separate
accounts so that they don't haveto justify their Starbucks latte
or they don't have to justifygoing out to um golf with the
fellas or whatever it is.
It is really, I set aside, weboth agree to what these dollar
(12:59):
amounts amounts are that are inthese potential separate
accounts.
Um and so, for instance, so wedon't necessarily my husband and
I don't have separate checkingaccounts.
However, he does have his playmoney.
We call it his play money, andhe just takes it out the bank
every or out the credit unionevery, you know, two weeks.
And it builds up.
And so one day he was like, Iwant to go get a bike.
(13:22):
And I was like, okay.
And you know, my husband doesn'tdo anything small, nothing at
all.
And so I was like, okay, howmuch is that?
And I mean, it wasn't an I mean,it was over a thousand dollar
bike.
And I'm thinking, are youserious right now?
And it was Christmas time, andI'm thinking, really, right now.
And he's like, Don't worry, Igot my play money that I've been
(13:44):
setting aside.
And, you know, so come with meand let's look at these bikes
and blah, blah, blah, blah,blah.
And I was like, okay.
So a part of me relaxedtremendously that that knew,
like, he's not gonna be sospontaneous that he wants to
just spend a thousand dollars orwhatever it was in the heat of
the moment.
He had been pl saving formonths, actually.
(14:07):
Um, and he had those dollars.
And so that works for him.
Me, I don't think I have in our27-year relationship spent a
thousand dollars on any onething unless it was a gift he
gave me or something like that.
Like, that's not, I'll spend iton travel, but I'm not, I don't
think I have anything.
Not a purse, not nothing,anything that's not even my
(14:28):
bike.
I'm like, but he knows I thinkit works for both of us because
in the budget, we have this lineitem.
And then he also just saves itand he doesn't spend money a
lot, but when he does, it's likea big punch, right?
So he'll buy a suit and it's$500, but he has his money that
(14:50):
he's been setting aside.
So I think that um it that canwork for people and it reduces
stress around the question, canwe afford it?
It really is, I set money asidealready, or I have money in this
account that we've alreadydiscussed, and I just want to
(15:10):
make this decision, and thenit's it just reduces any of the
anxiety that could potentiallycome.
SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
You have to ask that you did he get the bike and did
you ride it?
Does it feel like a thousanddollars when your hair is
blowing in the wind?
SPEAKER_01 (15:21):
I listen, I do not ride that.
I ride my bike that is sixhundred dollars.
He got his bike and he enjoysit, and he's had it for several
years.
I mean, he he enjoys his bike.
Um, so hey, more power to him,but I just didn't think I needed
to spend that kind of money.
So I got something that was likehalf the price.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
So in a perfect world, all these stories would
win, like what would you know,end up like this.
But we know we don't live inthat perfect world.
So at what point should a couplerecognize that they need maybe
some outside help, maybe like aprofessional financial
counselor?
SPEAKER_01 (15:56):
That's so good.
Um, and I think people can go toa count a professional financial
counselor, coach, therapist, orjust a coach, therapist,
counselor who isn't specific tomoney.
Here's why.
Because if communication isbroken down, this is one sign.
(16:18):
You have a hard time justtalking about money, the bills
that are due, um, the goals thatyou have, and you need a safe
space to be able to do so, thatmediary could be that person.
And it likely this is not theonly area.
Finances may not be the onlyarea in which the conversations
are difficult between you.
(16:39):
Um, obviously, trust, where youjust don't believe that they are
going to do or say what they,you know, it just the
follow-through just isn't there.
Um, so for instance, if billsaren't getting paid on time, um,
if debt is racking up, thosekinds of warning signs.
(16:59):
Um and, you know, I also thinkif specifically if you are
looking, if you're needing afinancial counselor, I would say
if you have goals that you'vebeen trying to reach and you
just haven't been able to getthere, right?
So something is in the way.
There's some, it could just betension in your relationship
with money or in the way thatyou are, your methodology around
(17:22):
how you're trying to do it, oryou can't agree on what it looks
like to achieve these financialgoals.
That's, I think, when you need afinancial professional to help
you.
Um, and you've been circlingthat same mountain for a couple
of years.
Um, so we're wasting time if wecontinue to circle the same
(17:46):
mountain.
And so I would encourage you toseek the help of a professional
if that is the case.
Um, and I think there's no shamein that.
I I applaud, admire, and respectanyone who understands where
they are not 100% strong in toget stronger with the help of
(18:06):
someone else.
And so um take that as a sign,communication, trust.
Um, those are the biggies.
Um, but if you are stillcircling goals for a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
I know you work a lot with couples.
I do too, but I think you see alot more couples than I do.
Early on in relationships, howearly in a relationship, even
somebody that's not married,should those couples start
having those conversations?
What are the things that youshould be looking for in your
partner financially in terms ofis this a good fit?
(18:40):
Are we going to be able tobalance this seesaw?
It's okay that we're opposites,but what are those things that
we should be looking for?
SPEAKER_01 (18:49):
That's a really good question.
So one thing that I'll say abouta spender and a saver is that it
is best, to be honest, ifthere's one of each in the
relationship, because thespender helps you have fun,
okay?
And the saver makes sure youhave a future.
So both of them, it would begreat to have both of them in a
(19:10):
relationship.
So um when people are dating,you can begin to tell if they're
just as a free spirit as youare, right?
If they don't care anythingabout the future, if um, in
terms of saving for it, theylive for the moment.
Um, but you know if I start, I Ihonestly think just start paying
(19:35):
attention first.
Like literally just startlooking at their behaviors and
habits.
Um, do they keep cash on thehand?
Um, are they always, you know,reducing reducing what it is
that they do because they don'thave the funds to do so?
Um, are they overspending?
Are or are they, you know,people who like all of the nicer
(19:56):
things?
I mean, there can be lots ofthings to be watching out for,
even before you begin havingconversations.
SPEAKER_00 (20:01):
And so I'll switch gears just a little bit.
We've been talking a lot aboutcouples and just the tension
that couples have when they'retalking about money, but we know
often they're children.
And sometimes, you know, youlaughed and we talked about in
the beginning that how expensivechildren can be.
And so just the expensive costand things that add to a family
(20:22):
dynamic, but children need tolearn about money too.
And so, how can we have thoseconversations with our children?
When should we even start tohave conversations with
children?
SPEAKER_01 (20:34):
I think the biggest thing that we can do with our
kids, excuse me, I think thebiggest thing that we can do
with our kids is let themwitness what we do.
They will model what they seepeople doing.
So talk to them in and honestly,you know, if they're less than
(20:56):
three or four, they're notpaying enough attention, their
attention span is very short.
But let's just talk about afive-year-old, a six-year-old,
someone, I mean, they are veryattentive and they love
learning, especially when it'snot the formal kind of learning,
right?
And so you can haveconversations about, you know,
(21:18):
using your debit card and whatit takes.
Like, I mean, it's very commonfor parents to say, make sure
you close the refrigerator, youknow, like that's electricity
right there.
Help them to understand it.
It is, it is, right?
Um, turn the light off whenyou're done, right?
And so these kinds of things arelike tying it to money.
(21:40):
Now, we don't want them to beoverly worried about every
single thing that thing thatthey do.
But by the time they begin to be11, 12, 13, they fully
understand that they areconnected because you've been
having this conversation.
One of the biggest things thatmisses that I see pe parents
make is trying to protect theirkids from the places where
(22:02):
parents have made mistakes ortripped over themselves or done
things that they wish they hadnot with money, they don't say
it to their kids.
And so they're they're shieldingthem from real life.
And and what I think is achallenge for kids now is to
understand that everything isn'tgoing to be perfect, right?
And um incomes vary, lifesituations vary, where you live
(22:27):
has a cost to it.
And I think as they get older,it is important to have
age-appropriate conversationswith them around what that looks
like.
And by the time a child is 15 or16, they should know what a
carved vehicle costs, right?
And they should know um what ittakes, right, to maintain that
vehicle.
So one of the biggest lessonsthat we taught our kids at that
(22:50):
age is you, we, first of all,you're getting your license, you
will have a vehicle so you cantake yourself to and from all
the places.
Um, and we'll pay for half ofthat car.
You save up your money and wewill match what you save.
And so our first daughter got acar that was$3,800 because she
saved$1,900.
(23:10):
Um, and our second daughter gota car that was$5,600 and she
saved half of that.
And so, and that pride inownership is huge for young
people.
And so they treat that thosevehicles better.
Um, they named their cars.
Um, they were sad.
I mean, frankly, my oldest, shedid hit the house and she lost
(23:34):
her rear view mirror, her sidemirror, rather.
Um, and she learned how to putit back on because my husband
helped her to find a mirror toput on and taught her how to put
it on.
And these things are important,right?
And getting a car wash andputting gas in the car.
And so, but it was aprogression.
I mean, we we taught work andreward at young ages.
(23:57):
Um, so between the ages of fiveand 10 for sure, um, you you do
chores and you get paid um forthose things.
And so I think it's importantthat we make it a part of life,
not all of life, but a part oflife um all throughout and don't
wait into this magic number.
12 is not the magic number.
(24:17):
Um, if a if a child is learningat 12 and they have never heard
of what it means to have a debitcard or what money looks like in
their hand, that kind of stuff.
I mean, it's it's it's a largeruphill swing, right?
But if you start younger, um, Ithink that that can be
beneficial.
But there's lots of ways, bookseven, I mean, we've read books
(24:38):
with our kids, we've had um, youknow, watch videos and things
like that just to sprinkle in umeducational opportunities at
home because frankly, they don'tget it, you know, around money
in school for a long time.
It's not really till high schoolthat they really start talking
about money for real.
SPEAKER_00 (24:54):
And so, you know, we're talking about how do you
have those conversations, but Ido want to take a minute and
say, how do we actually showthem?
For example, I remember my dadalways talked about saving and
that you should do it, right?
That's talking the talk.
But how do you actually sit downand really show your kids what
saving money looks like so thatthey can really pick that up as
(25:14):
a habit?
And obviously, the earlier theydevelop that habit, the better
off they will be in anybody thatlearns that particular habit.
SPEAKER_01 (25:24):
Well, it can start with something that they're
interested in, right?
So Barbie dolls are not cheap,right?
So if you want a Barbie house orwhatever it is, I mean, if that
thing is$50 and you have beengiving them, you know, their
work and reward, right?
So they had a chore, chores thatthey were doing over time and
(25:46):
they are setting aside$5 a weekor whatever it is, I think that
that can be an easy way to helpthem understand how to save for
something they want.
Um, frankly, a lot of youngpeople can't really have
accounts necessarily untilthey're, you know, teenager-ish,
you know, age.
(26:07):
But I think up until that point,it'd be great to save it in
cash, um, put it in envelopes,have it at the house, let them
literally feel the money intheir hands for what they
desire.
I'd like for young people tolearn to give, save, and spend,
and they have three envelopes,you know, and we've our our
(26:27):
society has gotten away fromcash.
But I think it's kids are sovisual and they need that.
And so I think having, you know,ensuring that each time that
they earn dollars, that they putsome in each one of those
envelopes.
And we actually painted littlepiggy banks.
We made little boxes for theirgive, save, spend.
(26:48):
Um, and you can capitalize onmaking it fun at young ages.
It's when they get to beteenagers and they're able to
actually have accounts that ummaking it maybe automatic or
putting a portion of their, youknow, lawn mowing dollars into
savings makes it real.
But I think it's important thatum we start with that physical
(27:12):
$5,$1 in hand for them toactually connect with the fact
that it's money.
Because once we startintroducing debit cards and
virtual money on a phone and allthat kind of stuff, I mean, um,
the connection to how real it isand its finality really, um,
sometimes get lost, even withadults.
(27:32):
So I I like to say for younger,for the younger population, they
need to have the dollars inhand.
SPEAKER_00 (27:38):
I agree.
I was gonna, I was gonna makethat same comment that not only
is it important for children tohave that connection, but I
think even for adults, you know,if you talk to an adult, they'll
tell you it's a lot harder topart with a physical$20 bill
than it is to swipe that debitcard for$20.
And so sometimes cash as kingreally, really can have a role.
(28:00):
So earlier we talked a littlebit about, you know,
instinctively as parents, wewant to shield our kids from all
the negative stuff.
But at the same time, we wantthem to know the reality of
life, right?
That sometimes there's gonna beups and downs with money.
So, how do you find that balancebetween keeping them shielded to
(28:20):
where they're not sleeping, youknow, having sleepless nights,
like, oh, how's the light billgonna get paid?
How am I gonna pay for my promdress?
But also letting them understandthat sometimes it's give and
take, and sometimes we justdon't have enough money to
purchase everything that theywant.
SPEAKER_01 (28:35):
Yeah.
I think we have to really payattention to our money messages.
So um it's important to haveage-appropriate money messages,
right?
And so it there's something tobe said for saying we don't have
the money versus we need tofigure out how to put that in
the budget for next month.
(28:57):
Or uh, and so these are messagesthat we hear.
I heard um we're broke, waittill payday, you know, we don't
have the money.
I heard those things over andover and over again.
Um and those get deeplyingrained.
And so I like to say, let'screate a plan, let's figure out
(29:18):
how we can, let's see if this isimportant, does this fit into
our goals, those kinds of thingsversus we don't have it.
Um, and so shifting the languageis important.
But also the other thing is somethings you say and some things
you don't.
Like we're not necessarilytelling them how much we make
annually, right?
SPEAKER_00 (29:37):
Like, not everybody, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:40):
Exactly.
So my kids, they our kids didn'tknow um how much we made until
we started having the FAFSAconversations for college.
Like they might had have had anidea, but it wasn't until they
were like 18 that they actuallystarted realizing what it was
concretely, right?
And so But prior to that, thatwasn't a conversation that we
(30:03):
had.
Now we I have shown themelectric bills.
I have also shown them, likewe've we played games all the
time with groceries, you know,um, and let them see how much
things cost at the grocerystore.
That's such an easy way to helppeople help your children
connect with money.
Um and and then there were timeswhen they were young, I said,
(30:25):
all right, you both have$100.
I want you to write on paperwhich dining out places you want
to go to and how much you wouldspend at these places.
And so for 30 days, we just didthat.
Um, they led the way, right?
With where we decided to godining out.
And it it caused them to readthat caused them to say, I love
Chick-fil-A, but what I reallywant is their shake.
(30:45):
Like I'm not necessarilyinterested in everything else
because if I do that for thewhole family at the time was
going to be over$30,$40 just togo to Chick-fil-A.
And so she was like, hold on.
Are we good if we just, if, ifme and my sister get shakes, do
y'all care?
You know what I mean?
Like they were like criticallyleading.
(31:05):
Exactly.
And so th that made adifference, right?
Um and so, and there areexercises like when my daughter
did get a, you know, a debitcard when she was in a teenager
and she didn't realize how muchgetting cookies and snacks and
stuff at school was adding up.
And so we sat down one day and Iadded it up and I said, I want
you to tell me how much youthink you've spent on snacks
(31:27):
just at school for 30 days.
And she said, Oh, probably$10.
And then when we added it up, itwas over$30, almost$40.
And she was like, She no idea,right?
Um, but it makes sense.
If you're at school 20 days outof the month and she's spending
two bucks a day, like she justfor her, she just thought it was
(31:47):
so much less.
And so that was a reality checkfor her.
And so I just think that we canweave these conversations in um
and know that the one, theydon't have to know how much your
investments are.
They don't have to know um howmuch debt in total that you're
in.
Um, but I think my kids werealong the journey when we, well,
(32:08):
I should say my oldest was alongthe journey when we were getting
out of debt and we celebratedwhen we were out of debt.
She didn't know how much it was,but she was, you know, six years
old when we got out of debt.
And we celebrated, we let herknow, like, we're done with
debt.
We don't have any.
And she was like, so mommy, it'sdebit.
We we like debit, not debt.
(32:30):
And yes, she she had that in hermindset.
So um her, she wasn't afraid ofthe conversation around us being
in debt.
We learned to show her, hey, weare, we have a plan.
And so this is the plan in termsof we have a specific amount for
(32:51):
dining out or for toys orwhatever.
And when that money is done,it's done because we are our
goal is to get free of debt.
And so she was along thatjourney.
Again, we didn't tell her howmuch it was at the time, and we
didn't, you know, make her feellike she couldn't.
We just had healthy boundariesaround what we could say yes to
while we were on that journey.
SPEAKER_00 (33:12):
And so I want to talk a little bit just about the
benefits of financialcounseling, because of course,
sometimes those conversationscan be difficult.
And no matter what end of thespectrum you're on, you know,
you have two people talking, butthey're just not able to come on
the same page.
And it may not necessarily evenbe that there's a financial
difficulty, but financialcoaching, free good financial
(33:35):
counseling can really beimpactful and beneficial.
So talk a little bit about howimportant it is, whether you're
in a financial crisis or if youjust want to make sure that
you're doing the right thing,how important financial coaching
can be in someone's life.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
Well, it's it can be really helpful because we don't
know what we don't know, right?
We all have blind spots.
We all have places that um wecan't see because they're behind
us or what have you.
And a coach, a good counselorcan help bring that to the
forefront.
(34:13):
Um, they can say, have youthought about this?
They have great questions thathelp you to ponder, you know,
really all of your life choices,right?
So, so a good counselor can helpbring to light things that we
either suppress or we've neverreally thought about, or we're
scared to confront.
I also think that a greatcounselor coach will create an
(34:37):
environment where it's safeenough to say what you may not
have been able to say to yourpartner outside of that space or
to divulge.
Um, I had a woman come to me onetime and she said, I've got
$25,000 in debt and I have nottold my spouse.
And that is why he isn't herebecause I haven't shared that
(35:00):
with him yet.
And I said, Well, and I coachedher through what it looked like
to have this conversation withhim and um what made it so
important for her to share that.
And and I also needed tounderstand a bit more about his
mentality and where this concernand fear came from.
(35:23):
We definitely don't wantretaliation or anything like
that.
And and I believe she had a safespace at home.
It's just she just was living inher own shame.
And again, a coach can kind ofassess that.
I felt empowered.
Um, and we together realizedthat it's because the dollars
(35:47):
that we set aside for, you know,groceries, the kids, and all
that was not enough.
And I would overspend on credit,and it is just built this up.
And so we're reworking thingstogether.
And so um her feeling thatempowerment is came from a
conversation with the coach.
And so my hope is that anytimeyou go to a third party, be it a
(36:09):
therapist, counselor, coach,whatever, that in fact you are a
better human walking away.
Like you feel enlightened, youfeel lighter, you have more
ideas.
Um, you feel like you can go dothat very next thing, whatever
it is concerning your finances.
If you feel defeated, sad, um,still remorseful, carrying a lot
(36:31):
of shame and guilt, something isamiss.
And it's okay to find adifferent person.
Um, but I think that thebenefits outweigh the the
feeling of hesitation or concernyou might have on what will be
divulged, because I think it'simportant that um we live in a
(36:51):
space of honesty, even withourselves, right?
And um, if we have people whoare skilled in being able to
help people in this area, um,it's a just a win-win for
everyone.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
Absolutely.
I mean, I think that key thingis, like you said, having that
open communication.
You made a really, really goodpoint earlier is that sometimes
we just don't know what we know.
It was actually when you weretalking about your daughter,
that made me think so many ofour clients, when we, you know,
see people for our blueprint forfinancial success, they come in
and they think, oh, I've onlybeen spending$200 a month on
(37:23):
this.
And then they realize aftergoing through financial
counseling that, oh, I've beenspending$500.
And just bringing that awarenesscan bring about change, can make
a big, big difference.
And so I really think it is suchan important part of having
those conversations.
If you can't have them on yourown, then seek somebody that can
definitely provide that servicefor you.
(37:44):
So, Erica, share with ourlisteners how they can reach out
to you, what you can do for themas we wrap up.
SPEAKER_01 (37:52):
I love that.
So you can find me on all thesocial platforms, Erica Young
Official on LinkedIn, Instagram,Facebook.
You can also um tune in to ourpodcast for better and worth.
My husband and I um have, as ourempty nester phase approached,
we decided to jump in and do apodcast of our own where we talk
(38:15):
about the intersection betweenrelationships and money and um
having conversations that, youknow, help you have that
relationship, but also buildwealth.
And um so, but the work that Ido is largely financial
education, training anddevelopment.
I love helping other coaches uplevel their skill sets.
Um, that is primarily the workthat I'm into, as well as
(38:38):
working with financialinstitutions, specifically
credit unions, ensure that umtheir internal teams are well
equipped to help people aroundcoaching as well as financial
education.
So Erica Young officials, thebest way to find me.
And then on my website, uhEricaYoung.com is where you can
get more information about whatthat looks like.
SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
Well, thank you so much.
We'll have to continue thisconversation, and maybe next
time I'll come and join you onyour podcast.
Let's go.
All right, thank you, Erica.
SPEAKER_02 (39:11):
Thanks for having me.
It's time for blueprint buildingblocks.
Small changes that lead to bigfinancial wins.
Let's stack up for success.
SPEAKER_00 (39:25):
Start the conversation.
Whether with your partner oryour kids, choose one small
money topic to talk about thisweek.
Keep it simple and judgmentfree.
Set a rhythm, schedule thoseregular check-ins with your
spouse or your partner aboutmoney.
Even 15 minutes once a week canmake a huge difference.
And then teach your kids byexample.
(39:47):
Kids learn by watching.
Let them see you budget, save,or even talk through a purchase
decision.
SPEAKER_02 (39:55):
That's a wrap on today's Blueprint Building
Blocks.
Stay on track with yourfinancial journey.
Subscribe to the Money MattersPodcast, and visit
neighborsfcu.org slash financialwellness for more tools to help
you build a strong financialfuture.
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