May 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Money is a major stressor that affects our mental health, yet it remains a taboo topic many avoid discussing. Dr. Shannon Matthews joins us to explore the psychological impact of financial stress and how to develop a healthier relationship with money.
• Financial stress affects everyone - even those with adequate resources worry about future economic uncertainty
• Anxiety and depression are common responses to financial stress, often manifesting in physical symptoms like disrupted sleep and poor eating habits
• "Retail therapy" does release feel-good endorphins but serves as a temporary fix to deeper issues
• Planning purchases rather than emotional spending helps maintain financial control while still enjoying occasional treats
• Childhood experiences shape our adult relationship with money through learned behaviors and attitudes
• Creating shopping lists before entering stores helps prevent impulse purchases driven by emotional needs
• News consumption can trigger financial anxiety - limit exposure to maintain perspective
• Seeking help for financial stress should be normalized just like getting treatment for physical health issues
• Surrounding yourself with financially healthy individuals helps develop better money habits
• Maintaining dignity in financial conversations by keeping the person in the "driver's seat" of their finances
If you're experiencing financial stress, don't suffer in silence. Talk to a financial counselor, mental health professional, or trusted advisor before things snowball out of control. Visit neighborsfcu.org/financial-wellness for more tools to help you build a strong financial future.
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Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that focuses on how to use the money you have, make the money you need and save the money you want – brought to you by Neighbors Federal Credit Union.
The information, opinions, and recommendations presented in this Podcast are for general information only and any reliance on the information provided in this Podcast is done at your own risk. This Podcast should not be considered professional advice.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that
focuses on how to use the moneyyou have, make the money you
need and save the money you want.
Now here is your host, ms KimChapman.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to another edition of Money Matters.
I'm your host, Kim Chapman.
May is Mental Health Month and,as we all know, money can be a
real big stressor.
It can bring on financialstrain.
So whether it's from livingpaycheck to paycheck or just not
really understanding how to getyourself to that next financial
level.
So hopefully today we canuncover some of the mysteries of
(00:36):
money mindset because we havewith us Dr Shannon Matthews.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hi, thank you for having me today.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Such an important subject.
An important topic Money seemsto be a taboo that people don't
like to talk about, and I thinkit's so important, especially in
this month, that we kind oftalk about the issues of why
money is such a taboo, why doesit cause so much stress and what
things we can do to kind ofalleviate that.
And so thank you for joining us, but tell us a little bit about
(01:07):
you and your background.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So I am Dr Shannon Matthews.
I'm a full-time psychologyprofessor at Southern University
, but I also maintain a practicewhere I do mental health
treatment for individuals whostruggle with a range of
psychological disorders.
My organization isPsychological Wellness and
(01:31):
Consulting, and so I pretty muchdo therapy pretty much every
day, but I do take that one daya week, generally on Fridays, to
do some self-care, because it'simportant if I'm extending
myself day in and day out,whether it's in the classroom or
doing therapy we have to taketime for ourselves, because we
want, when we don't care forourselves, stress level go up
(01:54):
and then all sorts of thingsjust kind of get out of whack
and out of balance.
So today, being Friday, is mystress reliever day, so this is
just a day for me to kind ofpour into me.
So that's just a little bitabout me and kind of how my day
to day work.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
All right, awesome.
And so, like you said, love aFriday, always a good, fun day,
good fun atmosphere.
And so, of course, we want tostill talk about money.
You know money, friday peopleget paid and you know what is
that mindset and, like I said,the mental portion of it, that
stress.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
So I want to start off by talking about.
Can you define financial stressfrom a psychological standpoint
?
Yes, I would define stress froma psychological standpoint is
things happen within your body,within your mind, when our
stress levels go up Right, andso people commonly can identify
with stress when we talk about,like, if a student is in school,
going to class is a stressor,and so when we talk about
(02:55):
financial stress, when a persondoes not have adequate funds to
attend to their basicnecessities, it contributes to
stress levels being increased,and so some of the things that
people typically do is theyengage in impulsive spending,
(03:17):
and so, even though they don'thave the funds to care for some
of their basic necessities, theystill engage in the things that
will make them feel good,because when we do things like
shopping and celebrating withfriends, it releases endorphins
and it makes us feel good.
And so, even though they maynot be financially astute and
(03:40):
being able to attend to theirbasic necessities, sometimes
people still engage in thosebehaviors because they want to
feel good.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Now you mentioned specifically definitely people
that are struggling to meetthose basic financial needs.
Can someone that does havefinancial resources suffer from
some type of financial stress?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yes, because it's a pool right.
You know we have.
Sometimes, even though, when wehave the funds to make ends
meet and to do the things thatwe need to do, we still we're
still stressed about it.
And especially living in thiseconomy now, with the way things
are, even though you may havemoney to pay your bills and even
do a little shopping on theside, there's still that stress
(04:20):
associated with do I need to putsomething in reserve?
There's still that stressassociated with do I need to put
something in reserve?
You know, if our market crashwas going to happen, am I going
to be okay?
We may be okay now, but whatabout next week?
And so there's still a level ofstress associated with finances
and, you know, trying to beresponsible with your money,
(04:41):
because even the mostresponsible person with their
money sometimes can get a littleimpulsive with some things.
They may want to do a littleextra sometime.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And I would almost think that it would be normal in
this day and age to ask thosequestions that you just
mentioned.
You know, do I have enoughsaved?
What's going to happen tomorrow, especially if you're tapped
into the news?
If you're tapped into the news,but what might be some other
signs that your mental stress,or your financial stress, is
having a impact on your health,on your mental health?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
That's a great question.
A lot of people in this day andtime.
Anxiety and depression is oneof the most common things that
people experience, right?
And so sometimes people maythink, oh, I'm fine, I'm doing
fine, everything is, everythingis OK.
But that's really like adefense mechanism, right, you're
(05:34):
not really OK, and sometimespeople don't recognize when
they're experiencing things likedepression, you know, but it
can show up sleeping all thetime, right, they're not
engaging with their friends,they're not able to get up and
do some of the most basic thingsthat typically you or I would
be able to do, like get up, takecare of our hygiene, fix
(05:56):
breakfast, get our clothestogether and move on with our
day.
And so sometimes, when peopleare experiencing financial
stress and their stress levelsare high, it also has impact on
their not only the mental healthbut the physical health.
Blood pressure gets out ofcontrol, eating habits get out
of control, and one of thethings that people will do is if
(06:18):
, in the South, we like to eat.
Of course we do.
We love food and unfortunately,a lot of our food is not always
the best for us, and so it'squick to just go run to
McDonald's or to run to Popeye'sor, you know, overindulge in a
large meal and it's not the mosthealthy option for us.
So if we're eating unhealthy,we're not sleeping because we're
(06:41):
stressed out, we're exhibitingsigns of depression that we
don't always notice is going tohave an impact on our overall
well-being.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So we have a lot of consumers that, of course, that
are facing some type offinancial hardship, and so they
feel ashamed, sometimes evenparalyzed by their financial
situation, and sometimes theywon't reach out for help until
maybe it's too late or theconsequences are really really
dire.
Why does money have that typeof impact?
Emotional impact on individuals.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Oh, because I mean, we need money to make to, to
sustain our way of lives, evenif we're not rich or wealthy.
Right, everybody needs money tobe able to make that, especially
if you have children.
You want to be able to takecare of your children, you want
to be able to give them not onlyprovide for their basic
(07:30):
necessities, but also be able togive a little extra some time.
And so, like I said, like Imentioned a little earlier, when
we do things like when we'respending money, when we're
shopping, those things make usfeel good, and if you can't feel
good, you can't make the other,the people around you, feel
good.
It weighs on you and it has aheavy impact on you.
(07:51):
So it becomes emotional becauseyour basic needs are not being
met.
And if you think about Maslow'shierarchy of need, you know the
most basic level is being ableto provide for your food,
clothing, shelf, shelter andsafety, and we need money to do
all of those things.
And so if you don't have themoney to pay your rent, to buy
(08:14):
food or some of those othernecessities, it can be rather
embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So on a long-term basis, what impact impact does
long term financial stress haveon your overall well-being?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Oh, that's a good question.
So I would say probably themost.
One of the most impactful isdefinitely going to be on your
physical and mental health.
When your mental health isstruggling, so will your
physical health, because peoplecan get into bouts of depression
.
Sometimes you have situationaldepression, where certain things
(08:50):
may make you sad, right.
But if you're in a situationwhere finances you're strapped
for cash all the time, it'sgoing to have a long term impact
on your mental and becauseyou're not mentally balanced and
well, you're not going to beable to attend to some of the
physical things.
Are you going to go to thedoctor and get your checkups?
(09:12):
Are you going to be able toafford to buy healthy options?
Shop the perimeter of thegrocery store instead of buying
the processed stuff in themiddle of the aisle?
You're not going to be able tomake those healthy choices
because you're trying to get thebasics, you're trying to make
ends meet and just get whateverit is that you can, and so that
wears on a person mentally andphysically.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So I imagine you see clients for an array of
different reasons.
How much of an impact doesfinances have in terms of, maybe
, their particular situation oreven relationships?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Oh yeah, so you often .
I often come across individuals, especially married couples.
You'll have one person, one ofthe spouses, that's in therapy
for individual issues that theymay be having, but throughout
the course of our time togetherit comes up finances, the whole,
(10:07):
his money and my money andshe's not carrying her weight
and she's not doing this.
And so one of the most commonthings I see is you know,
they're not on the same pagewith how the money should be
utilized.
They're not on the same pagewith using, seeing money as a
resource for the family andpulling the money together.
(10:28):
You're going to always dobetter.
It is my, my thought thatyou're always going to do better
.
If it's two people, if you joinit together, you do be able to
do more than saying okay, kim,this is your money, shannon,
this is your money you, youyou're gonna pay the light bill
in the water bill, I'm gonna paythe rent and whatever other
bill.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And so the arguments come because they're not on the
same page, and so it impacts therelationships, it's the couples
, because there are times whenyou can feel the tension in the
room, and I remember there wasalways a saying that opposites
(11:10):
attract, but seeing what I'veseen, I feel like not when it
comes to finances, because, yes,when you're on debt, when
you're on opposite pages withyour finances and whatnot.
And so when we're talking aboutmoney, I have to ask this
particular question, becausethere's this term that we like
to throw around loosely retailtherapy.
Is there really any science?
(11:34):
Or, in your opinion, what doyou think about retail therapy?
I'm having a bad day, I'm just,I just don't everything.
I need a win, and couldshopping or retail therapy
really release those endorphins?
Or is it really just atemporary fix, because if I'm
not financially stable, it'sgoing to be worse in the long
(11:54):
run?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I think it's both, because it can release those
endorphins that make you makeyou feel good Right, but it is a
bandaid to what couldpotentially be a long term
problem.
I would like to think I'm veryresponsibly with my money, I'm
very fiscally responsible, andeven I engage in a little retail
therapy, but I try to make surethat I'm not I'm not, I'm not
(12:17):
emotionally spending.
So one way to combat that isplan it out.
So you know what?
Next Friday I'm going to goshopping for a few items, so
that you don't overdo it.
One of the biggest mistakes thatwe can make is emotionally shop
and people say, oh, it's goingto make me feel good, yeah, but
then next week you're going tobe strapped for cash because we
(12:41):
didn't plan it out, we didn'tthink this thing, think this
through.
You're going to be in the samesituation next week, if not
worse than you are this week.
It's going to only provide atemporary fix to a long-term
problem.
And so what I would?
What I like to do?
I like to go to Ulta, right,and get some skincare products,
get some lip gloss, maybe somemascara.
(13:03):
I like to do those things, butI plan it out and I treat myself
, and so to me, it allows me tomake sacrifices in different
areas.
So maybe I don't go toStarbucks every day this week,
if I know I want to go to Ultaand get some new mascara next
week.
So there's ways to still engagein those things that make you
(13:24):
feel good, but just do it in amore responsible way.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Are there particular red flags that a person should
be aware of?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
that suggests that you're emotionally spending.
If you're, yes, if youremotions are dysregulated so
meaning, if you're upset aboutsomething, if you're angry about
something, if you're angryabout something, if you're
frustrated about something,that's not the time to go plan a
shopping trip, it just is.
It's the same thing as wherepeople tell you don't go grocery
shopping when you're hungry.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Do not go to the grocery store when you're hungry
.
Well, the same applies whenyour retail therapy, for your
retail therapy days.
Don't don't plan it out ordon't do it when you're in an
emotional state.
That's a little dysregulated.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Now, if you're on a first name basis with the Amazon
guy, ups and FedEx, shouldthere be a concern?
Should we be scheduling anappointment?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
We should, because they probably shouldn't know
your name, but my husband likesto tell me that he's convinced
an Amazon shopper I mean theAmazon delivery guys and females
.
They know my name and I'm likethey do not.
He was like but they come hereregularly.
I'm like but it's all plannedout and it's you know things
that I need as a necessity.
(14:37):
It's convenient, right, and seethe thing I don't like shopping
.
So being able to order thingsonline is very, very convenient
and easy.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's what I tell myself, and I'm glad you
validated my feelings.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yes, it's very easy and it's very, very convenient,
but you still have to have someself-control.
I'm not just ordering on Amazonand doing all of this stuff
just to be doing it For me.
I have to have a purpose to doit.
So, for instance, I have abirthday coming up.
Happy early birthday, thank you.
I appreciate that.
I have a birthday coming up andwe're going to have a get
(15:11):
together at the house, sothere's some things that I
needed, right and so, because Idon't like going to the stores
and I don't like shopping,shopping online is like the
perfect thing for me,intentional, yes, and so I still
make a list out before I evengo on, open up any apps to do
any shopping, and that keeps mefocused on going on there.
Shannon, get what you need toget and close the app out and go
(15:34):
about your business.
Don't just be surfing like, oh,this is neat, I can just buy
this.
So you still have to beresponsible, even when you're
engaging in the most convenientthings like Amazon or shopping
on Walmart and things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
And I have to ask with all the news talking about
the tariffs and the impact it'sgoing to have on retailers like
Amazon, t-mobile, sheen, and soyou have individuals that may be
shopping on a regular basis.
Whether it's for a good reasonor not, obviously the expenses
it sounds like it's going tohave an impact.
So what maybe recommendationsmight you give somebody on how
(16:09):
to handle, is like if you'reused to shopping on Amazon at
will when it's your birthday,when it's a special occasion,
and now, maybe because of thetariffs, you might not be able
to do, what would you recommendto that person in terms of how
to handle that situation so thatyou don't become depressed, so
that you're not feelingfinancially stressed Because
it's not necessarily somethingthat the consumer has actually
done?
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Planning, planning, planning Right, and also being
more intentional about whenyou're opening up the app.
What are you doing?
Asking yourself what are youdoing?
That's the question Is thissomething you really need?
Because you're not going tohave?
You may not have a therapist totap you on the shoulder hey
(16:53):
girl, do you really need to bedoing that?
Or you may not have a friend tobe there with you in that
moment.
So it's really going to takesome self-control right and some
reminders, like with some of myclients who struggle with
self-image or self-esteem issuesor anything like that.
We do this thing where we do,you know, positive affirmations
(17:15):
in a mirror.
So I'll have them do thingslike write something, get a dry
erase marker and write apositive message on a mirror, or
use sticky notes and put it incommon areas to remind you of
certain things.
So I have a good friend of minenamed Tamika.
She came up with this with thisterm I am enough or you are
(17:36):
enough.
Your greatness is enough.
Whatever you want to insert,there is enough.
And so you know, I encourageclients to write messages to
themselves on the mirror as areminder.
You can do the same thing.
It can be something as simpleas I don't need anything from
from Amazon today and stick thaton your mirror as a positive
reminder that, hey, you can getcontrol of this.
(17:57):
Doing things like that is goingto keep you from I'm not going
to say it's going to keep youfrom being depressed, because
there's some other issues that'scontributing, some deeper
issues that are probablycontributing to the depression,
and the action is you going outthere shopping, right, but it
(18:18):
can help with as a reminder foryou not to engage in it when you
don't need it.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
So when you said deeper issues, it made me think
about childhood trauma or justyour upbringing.
What impact does, though youknow as upbringing or a trauma
that we may have experienced,impact how we handle money?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Because where do we learn how to handle money?
I know, when I was a littlegirl, my parents taught me the
importance of saving my money.
Right, you have to save yourmoney.
We didn't get into a whole lotabout investment, but I did get
a good foundation about savingmy money and making sure that my
making sure my credit was good.
(18:57):
So by the time I got off out ofhigh school and got on to
college, I had some basics right.
I kind of knew, you know, whatI needed to do to kind of
survive everything.
From that point I got it on myown.
But experiencing childhoodtrauma has an impact on the
physical, on the on theemotional, on the mental, and
(19:18):
it's ultimately going to shapeyour relationship with money.
And it's ultimately going toshape your relationship with
money.
If you grew up in poverty anddidn't have parents to educate
you on how to have a goodrelationship with money and to
be fiscally responsible, thenwhen you become an adult those
same practices are carried onuntil you interact with somebody
(19:40):
else who can kind of teach youdifferently.
So finances, child abuse andneglect all of those type of
issues will impact you as anadult.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So what are some small impactful steps someone
can take to reduce that mentalload?
Because money impacts us everyday, everywhere.
It's not going anyplace.
So what can we do to reducethat stress that we're putting
on ourselves.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So let's take grocery shopping.
Since we're in shopping, we'retalking about shopping.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And be politically correct and say make groceries
because we're in Louisiana,because we make groceries.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
We don't go shop, we make groceries down here y'all.
So when you go into the grocerystore, before you go to the
grocery store, make a list.
That's one of the most you know, the most elementary and simple
things that sometimes peoplebecause some of you be surprised
the amount of people that don'tknow how to grocery shop they
go in there and they just seeall of the colors.
(20:37):
You know you got the musicplaying in a grocery store.
You got all of this stuff tobuy.
It really overly stimulates alot of people when they go in
and then they just startgrabbing things.
Right.
But if you know that yourfinances you got to make that
dollar holler or you got to makethat penny stretch make a list
before you go in there andreally think about buying things
(20:57):
that you need and not focus inon the things that you want.
Yeah, that little, that handbagis cute, but do you really need
that handbag?
If it's something that you want, plan for it and then you can
still get it, but it just haveto come at a later date.
So delaying immediategratification and immediate need
(21:19):
of things is also gonna help.
We live in a society whereeverybody want everything right
now I want.
In a society where everybodywant everything right now, I
want it right now.
I want it right now.
We have to learn to delay thethings that we want, sometimes,
especially when our financesdon't allow for us to just get
it right now, right now.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So what would you say to that individual?
Just yesterday I was having aconversation about money and
somebody posed the question.
You know they were beingfacetious.
It conversation about money andsomebody posed the question.
You know they would be in forseizures.
It's like, but I deserve it,I'm entitled, I work hard.
So how do you tell that personthat feels that way?
But they need to rein in theirfinances or it's having a toll
on their mental health?
(21:54):
What do we say to that person?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
And so if I had that person in front of me, I would
probably start off theconversation with where they
learned their habits with money,from how they learned to have
that relationship with money,and start unlearning those
thoughts and start shifting thatbehavior.
You do deserve we deserve nicethings, but there is a way to
(22:21):
get it without having you havesuch a big impact on your
finances.
And so it's not an easy fix,because you're changing a
person's way of thinking and youchange in a way that they've
done.
They've done the same thingover and over for many, many
years, and so it's not going tohappen overnight.
But I would definitely startthere with them about how they
(22:44):
learn their money habits andwhat it means to them to think
the way they're thinking now.
And if they continue to thinkthat way, how is that going to
impact them long term versus ifyou shift the way you think and
the impact that that can have onyou long term?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
the impact that that can have on you long term, and
we have some people that weconsider avoiders.
They just avoid money, moneyconversations, balancing their,
their, their finances at allcosts.
What can we tell an individualthat's an avoider?
What?
What steps can they take tokind of get themselves to have a
(23:20):
different mindset in terms ofit's not going to be the worst
thing in the world If I look atmy bank balance, if I handle my
finances?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Identify the why.
Why are you thinking like this?
Why don't you want to addressyour finances?
What are you afraid of?
And start talking and startbreaking down?
Why is it so scary, you know?
Why can't you have thatconversation about money?
Why can't you, you know, buy abook?
(23:49):
I learned how to balance mybills using, I remember when I
was a little girl, my mom hadthis notebook and she used to
write all of the bills down, howmuch it costs when she paid it,
and that's how I learned how topay it.
And we talked about before,when we were, you know, traumas
and the things that weexperienced when we were little
and how that impacts us as anadult.
That's one of the things thathad an impact on me, and I still
(24:11):
do, as an adult Now.
Yes, we have automatic draftsand all of that kind of stuff,
but for me, I still got to go tomy little book and still make
sure that this one was paid, andit was paid at this time, right
.
So it's really going to beabout changing behaviors,
changing their way of thinkingabout money.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
So what are some habits that somebody might have
financial habits that is reallyhaving an impact on their mental
stability that are red flagsand that they might need to
actually seek therapy.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That are red flags and that they might need to
actually seek therapy.
When an Amazon man come intoyour house every day or every
other day and it's you haveboxes in your house that you
haven't even opened yet.
So if you have, by the end ofthe week you got like three,
four boxes sitting on a counterand you hadn't even opened them
yet.
Did you really need it?
Did you really need it when, ifpayday is today and tomorrow
(25:09):
you have a delivery, or tomorrowyou're in the mall, or tomorrow
you're like, oh my God, I spenttoo much.
You know that's probably anindication that you know you
probably need to seek some help.
When you're planning to spendthe money before you have it in
hand, then that's a time whenyou need to seek some help.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So the news which is rarely ever good news it can
really create a lot of anxiety.
I mean, you hear about thetariffs, you hear about
inflation.
Of course, now it's studentloans.
Now they're going to startgarnishing your pay.
If, if you're in default,everything is, you know, the
stock market is going down, howcan you stay focused and
(25:53):
balanced and not create your ownself anxiety and create a
problem that maybe doesn't evenexist?
But if you're watching the news, you can't help but see this is
wrong, this is wrong.
This is wrong.
This is wrong.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
You know I call anxiety.
I tell clients anxiety.
You feel you're tripping, youtrip in and and and got your
your stress level high aboutsomething that hasn't even
happened yet.
And that's what anxiety is andunfortunately, our our news is
it breeds anxiety, higher levelsof anxiety, because it's
pushing stuff down your throatright and it has throat right
(26:27):
and it has us worried and it hasus stressed about what the
things that could potentiallyhappen.
One of the ways I balance thatis I minimize.
I watch the news just enough tostay in tuned with what's going
on in the country, but I'm notsitting there watching it every
day, because even the mostskilled person, even the most
(26:48):
balanced person, can get suckedinto trauma.
It can get sucked into thenegative if you put it in your
face all the time, just likewords of affirmation works to
help pull us out of dark places.
Sometimes the dark can pull youinto it if you're hearing it
all the time.
Remember when COVID happenedand everybody was buying up the
(27:09):
toilet tissue.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yes, toilet tissue and Lysol.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Toilet tissue and Lysol.
You could not find a roll oftoilet tissue or a can of Lysol
on a shelf, and then, if you did, you're paying $10 for a can of
Lysol.
Paying $10 for a can of Lysol.
That hysteria and that anxietywas created by the news we're
(27:34):
going to run out of toilettissue.
Everybody got to go buy all ofthe toilet tissue, right?
And so I found myself like, ohgoodness, like wait, do we have
to do?
We need to get more toilettissue?
Do we need to go out?
And I had to often tell myselfget what we need, Right, but
don't overspend.
We're not going to spend awhole paycheck on buying up all
(27:56):
the toilet tissue.
So we really have to justremind ourselves not to get
sucked into it.
Watch the news, but don't watchit every single day, all day.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Got to take a break.
Got to take a break from it.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Too much of anything is not going to be good for you,
including the news.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
So having conversations about money for
some individuals can be really,really difficult.
Sometimes they get on thedefensive.
Or their trigger words rightWords that if you're going to
have that conversation withsomebody and you know it's not
going to be an easy conversationor they're trigger words that
maybe somebody should avoidhaving, or language they should
avoid using when we're talkingabout money.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So I will start with asking the person you know if,
especially if you're, like, in afinancial counseling role or
even if you're a friend andyou're just kind of having
casual conversation, right, youknow you and I are sitting here
and we're talking about money,right, One of the things people
are sensitive about is, like I'mnot going to ask you, hey, how
(28:54):
much money you make, how oftenyou get paid.
Now, if we're in a conversationand you're trying to help me
with balancing my finances, thenI think a good starting point
would be how can I help you?
When you think about yourfinances, where do you see that
you need help?
You always want to keep theperson in a driver's seat, right
(29:17):
, you don't know more about methan I know about myself.
And so, even when I'm with myclients, I tell them I approach
therapy from the perspective ofI'm your cheerleader, right, I'm
your co clients.
I tell them I approach therapyfrom the perspective of I'm your
, I'm your cheerleader, right,I'm your co-pilot.
You stay in a driver's seat andI'm going to help you navigate.
Right, I'm going to give youwhat you need.
And then there are going to betimes where, if I see we're
(29:38):
driving on a road, we just wegoing out a little mirror way,
but if I see you about to fallinto a pothole and be like, hey,
kim, you might want to steer alittle left.
We don't want to go therebecause this is what's going to
happen.
But you keep the person in thedriver's seat so that they can
still remain a sense of control.
We want to maintain a person'sdignity at all times, and you
(30:00):
know, being financially strappedfor cash can be embarrassing.
That's not something that youwant to talk about if you're
struggling to make ends meet,and so one of the ways that I
think can be most beneficial isto keep that person in a
driver's seat to remain somedignity, so that they can
maintain some dignity.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
So can you define, maybe, what a healthy
relationship with money lookslike, or what are some
characteristics or tips or toolsthat somebody should focus on
if they want to make sure thatthey are either establishing or
maintaining a healthyrelationship with money?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
So, if you don't know , ask you know.
If, if it's something that Iwant to learn more about,
connect with people who knowmore than you do, so that way
you can increase your knowledge.
If you know you have a poorrelationship with money but you
know somebody else who have abetter relationship with money,
start encouraging conversationswith that person.
Ask some questions about, well,how do you do it?
(30:54):
Make a budget and try to stickto your budget.
Don't beat yourself up if youfall off the wagon a little bit
right?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think that is so important?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
It's very important because we all fall off and you
just got to get back on and getback on track.
How many times have we said Ineed to lose some weight, I'm
going to start going to the gym,I need to eat better, I need to
stay out of Ulta.
We start, we stop, but we startto get back on there and also
surrounding yourself with peoplewho want who who's going in a
(31:27):
direction that you're desiringto go Right.
So, if you want to do betterwith money, if you want to have
a better relationship with money, if you want to learn more with
money, surround yourself withpeople who have that same
thought process or who'sactually doing it, so that you
can learn something from them.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
All right, this is some good information.
Any final tips that you want toshare with anybody, especially
in light of, maybe in mentalhealth month, month in, relate
in terms of money.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
So don't be embarrassed.
We all have had times where weneeded a little boost or we
needed some help.
Some people are morefinancially secure and others
than others.
But it doesn't make those whoare not financially secure it
doesn't make them any less of aperson.
If you're struggling, or thinkyou may be struggling, with any
(32:12):
type of mental health disorderwhere it's anxiety, where it's
depression or any of the othermental health diagnosis, don't
be afraid to get to get help.
Mental health has such a stigmaand interrupts people wanting to
get help.
They don't want to go to themental health clinic and they
don't want nobody to know thatthey may have schizophrenia.
They don't want nobody to knowthat they're struggling with
(32:34):
anxiety.
And it's OK when we when youbreak a leg Right, If you get a
cold, a flu or anything else, werun to the doctor.
We go run to the doctor andnobody seems to have a problem
with that.
It's normal to go to the doctorif your arm is hurting right.
Let's normalize.
(32:55):
Go and see clinical socialworkers, psychologists,
psychiatrists, licensedprofessional counselors to take
care of our mental health aswell as just like we take care
of our physical health.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Well, good information.
Thank you so much, Dr ShannonMatthews, for stopping by the
podcast and sharing thatinformation so that we can build
a better, stronger, healthierrelationship with our money.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's time for Blueprint Building Blocks Small
changes that lead to bigfinancial wins.
Let's stack up for successTrack the triggers.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Identify what specific financial stressors,
like debt bills or evenirregular income, are affecting
your mental health.
Awareness is the first steptoward taking control.
Budget with boundaries.
Create a realistic spendingplan that reflects your
priorities, not your pressure.
A budget should reduce anxiety,not add to it.
(33:56):
Don't suffer in silence.
Financial stress is common andyou're not alone.
Talk to a financial counselor,mental health professional or a
trusted advisor before thingssnowball out of control.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
That's a wrap on today's Blueprint Building
Blocks.
Stay on track with yourfinancial journey.
Subscribe to the Money Matterspodcast and visit
neighborsfcuorg slash financialwellness for more tools to help
you build a strong financialfuture.
Welcome to Money Matters, the podcast that
focuses on how to use the moneyyou have, make the money you
need and save the money you want.
Now here is your host, ms KimChapman.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to another edition of Money Matters.
I'm your host, Kim Chapman.
May is Mental Health Month and,as we all know, money can be a
real big stressor.
It can bring on financialstrain.
So whether it's from livingpaycheck to paycheck or just not
really understanding how to getyourself to that next financial
level.
So hopefully today we canuncover some of the mysteries of
(00:36):
money mindset because we havewith us Dr Shannon Matthews.
Welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Hi, thank you for having me today.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Such an important subject.
An important topic Money seemsto be a taboo that people don't
like to talk about, and I thinkit's so important, especially in
this month, that we kind oftalk about the issues of why
money is such a taboo, why doesit cause so much stress and what
things we can do to kind ofalleviate that.
And so thank you for joining us, but tell us a little bit about
(01:07):
you and your background.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
So I am Dr Shannon Matthews.
I'm a full-time psychologyprofessor at Southern University
, but I also maintain a practicewhere I do mental health
treatment for individuals whostruggle with a range of
psychological disorders.
My organization isPsychological Wellness and
(01:31):
Consulting, and so I pretty muchdo therapy pretty much every
day, but I do take that one daya week, generally on Fridays, to
do some self-care, because it'simportant if I'm extending
myself day in and day out,whether it's in the classroom or
doing therapy we have to taketime for ourselves, because we
want, when we don't care forourselves, stress level go up
(01:54):
and then all sorts of thingsjust kind of get out of whack
and out of balance.
So today, being Friday, is mystress reliever day, so this is
just a day for me to kind ofpour into me.
So that's just a little bitabout me and kind of how my day
to day work.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
All right, awesome.
And so, like you said, love aFriday, always a good, fun day,
good fun atmosphere.
And so, of course, we want tostill talk about money.
You know money, friday peopleget paid and you know what is
that mindset and, like I said,the mental portion of it, that
stress.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
So I want to start off by talking about.
Can you define financial stressfrom a psychological standpoint
?
Yes, I would define stress froma psychological standpoint is
things happen within your body,within your mind, when our
stress levels go up Right, andso people commonly can identify
with stress when we talk about,like, if a student is in school,
going to class is a stressor,and so when we talk about
(02:55):
financial stress, when a persondoes not have adequate funds to
attend to their basicnecessities, it contributes to
stress levels being increased,and so some of the things that
people typically do is theyengage in impulsive spending,
(03:17):
and so, even though they don'thave the funds to care for some
of their basic necessities, theystill engage in the things that
will make them feel good,because when we do things like
shopping and celebrating withfriends, it releases endorphins
and it makes us feel good.
And so, even though they maynot be financially astute and
(03:40):
being able to attend to theirbasic necessities, sometimes
people still engage in thosebehaviors because they want to
feel good.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Now you mentioned specifically definitely people
that are struggling to meetthose basic financial needs.
Can someone that does havefinancial resources suffer from
some type of financial stress?
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Yes, because it's a pool right.
You know we have.
Sometimes, even though, when wehave the funds to make ends
meet and to do the things thatwe need to do, we still we're
still stressed about it.
And especially living in thiseconomy now, with the way things
are, even though you may havemoney to pay your bills and even
do a little shopping on theside, there's still that stress
(04:20):
associated with do I need to putsomething in reserve?
There's still that stressassociated with do I need to put
something in reserve?
You know, if our market crashwas going to happen, am I going
to be okay?
We may be okay now, but whatabout next week?
And so there's still a level ofstress associated with finances
and, you know, trying to beresponsible with your money,
(04:41):
because even the mostresponsible person with their
money sometimes can get a littleimpulsive with some things.
They may want to do a littleextra sometime.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
And I would almost think that it would be normal in
this day and age to ask thosequestions that you just
mentioned.
You know, do I have enoughsaved?
What's going to happen tomorrow, especially if you're tapped
into the news?
If you're tapped into the news,but what might be some other
signs that your mental stress,or your financial stress, is
having a impact on your health,on your mental health?
Speaker 3 (05:12):
That's a great question.
A lot of people in this day andtime.
Anxiety and depression is oneof the most common things that
people experience, right?
And so sometimes people maythink, oh, I'm fine, I'm doing
fine, everything is, everythingis OK.
But that's really like adefense mechanism, right, you're
(05:34):
not really OK, and sometimespeople don't recognize when
they're experiencing things likedepression, you know, but it
can show up sleeping all thetime, right, they're not
engaging with their friends,they're not able to get up and
do some of the most basic thingsthat typically you or I would
be able to do, like get up, takecare of our hygiene, fix
(05:56):
breakfast, get our clothestogether and move on with our
day.
And so sometimes, when peopleare experiencing financial
stress and their stress levelsare high, it also has impact on
their not only the mental healthbut the physical health.
Blood pressure gets out ofcontrol, eating habits get out
of control, and one of thethings that people will do is if
(06:18):
, in the South, we like to eat.
Of course we do.
We love food and unfortunately,a lot of our food is not always
the best for us, and so it'squick to just go run to
McDonald's or to run to Popeye'sor, you know, overindulge in a
large meal and it's not the mosthealthy option for us.
So if we're eating unhealthy,we're not sleeping because we're
(06:41):
stressed out, we're exhibitingsigns of depression that we
don't always notice is going tohave an impact on our overall
well-being.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So we have a lot of consumers that, of course, that
are facing some type offinancial hardship, and so they
feel ashamed, sometimes evenparalyzed by their financial
situation, and sometimes theywon't reach out for help until
maybe it's too late or theconsequences are really really
dire.
Why does money have that typeof impact?
Emotional impact on individuals.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Oh, because I mean, we need money to make to, to
sustain our way of lives, evenif we're not rich or wealthy.
Right, everybody needs money tobe able to make that, especially
if you have children.
You want to be able to takecare of your children, you want
to be able to give them not onlyprovide for their basic
(07:30):
necessities, but also be able togive a little extra some time.
And so, like I said, like Imentioned a little earlier, when
we do things like when we'respending money, when we're
shopping, those things make usfeel good, and if you can't feel
good, you can't make the other,the people around you, feel
good.
It weighs on you and it has aheavy impact on you.
(07:51):
So it becomes emotional becauseyour basic needs are not being
met.
And if you think about Maslow'shierarchy of need, you know the
most basic level is being ableto provide for your food,
clothing, shelf, shelter andsafety, and we need money to do
all of those things.
And so if you don't have themoney to pay your rent, to buy
(08:14):
food or some of those othernecessities, it can be rather
embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
So on a long-term basis, what impact impact does
long term financial stress haveon your overall well-being?
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Oh, that's a good question.
So I would say probably themost.
One of the most impactful isdefinitely going to be on your
physical and mental health.
When your mental health isstruggling, so will your
physical health, because peoplecan get into bouts of depression
.
Sometimes you have situationaldepression, where certain things
(08:50):
may make you sad, right.
But if you're in a situationwhere finances you're strapped
for cash all the time, it'sgoing to have a long term impact
on your mental and becauseyou're not mentally balanced and
well, you're not going to beable to attend to some of the
physical things.
Are you going to go to thedoctor and get your checkups?
(09:12):
Are you going to be able toafford to buy healthy options?
Shop the perimeter of thegrocery store instead of buying
the processed stuff in themiddle of the aisle?
You're not going to be able tomake those healthy choices
because you're trying to get thebasics, you're trying to make
ends meet and just get whateverit is that you can, and so that
wears on a person mentally andphysically.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
So I imagine you see clients for an array of
different reasons.
How much of an impact doesfinances have in terms of, maybe
, their particular situation oreven relationships?
Speaker 3 (09:47):
Oh yeah, so you often .
I often come across individuals, especially married couples.
You'll have one person, one ofthe spouses, that's in therapy
for individual issues that theymay be having, but throughout
the course of our time togetherit comes up finances, the whole,
(10:07):
his money and my money andshe's not carrying her weight
and she's not doing this.
And so one of the most commonthings I see is you know,
they're not on the same pagewith how the money should be
utilized.
They're not on the same pagewith using, seeing money as a
resource for the family andpulling the money together.
(10:28):
You're going to always dobetter.
It is my, my thought thatyou're always going to do better
.
If it's two people, if you joinit together, you do be able to
do more than saying okay, kim,this is your money, shannon,
this is your money you, youyou're gonna pay the light bill
in the water bill, I'm gonna paythe rent and whatever other
bill.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
And so the arguments come because they're not on the
same page, and so it impacts therelationships, it's the couples
, because there are times whenyou can feel the tension in the
room, and I remember there wasalways a saying that opposites
(11:10):
attract, but seeing what I'veseen, I feel like not when it
comes to finances, because, yes,when you're on debt, when
you're on opposite pages withyour finances and whatnot.
And so when we're talking aboutmoney, I have to ask this
particular question, becausethere's this term that we like
to throw around loosely retailtherapy.
Is there really any science?
(11:34):
Or, in your opinion, what doyou think about retail therapy?
I'm having a bad day, I'm just,I just don't everything.
I need a win, and couldshopping or retail therapy
really release those endorphins?
Or is it really just atemporary fix, because if I'm
not financially stable, it'sgoing to be worse in the long
(11:54):
run?
Speaker 3 (11:54):
I think it's both, because it can release those
endorphins that make you makeyou feel good Right, but it is a
bandaid to what couldpotentially be a long term
problem.
I would like to think I'm veryresponsibly with my money, I'm
very fiscally responsible, andeven I engage in a little retail
therapy, but I try to make surethat I'm not I'm not, I'm not
(12:17):
emotionally spending.
So one way to combat that isplan it out.
So you know what?
Next Friday I'm going to goshopping for a few items, so
that you don't overdo it.
One of the biggest mistakes thatwe can make is emotionally shop
and people say, oh, it's goingto make me feel good, yeah, but
then next week you're going tobe strapped for cash because we
(12:41):
didn't plan it out, we didn'tthink this thing, think this
through.
You're going to be in the samesituation next week, if not
worse than you are this week.
It's going to only provide atemporary fix to a long-term
problem.
And so what I would?
What I like to do?
I like to go to Ulta, right,and get some skincare products,
get some lip gloss, maybe somemascara.
(13:03):
I like to do those things, butI plan it out and I treat myself
, and so to me, it allows me tomake sacrifices in different
areas.
So maybe I don't go toStarbucks every day this week,
if I know I want to go to Ultaand get some new mascara next
week.
So there's ways to still engagein those things that make you
(13:24):
feel good, but just do it in amore responsible way.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Are there particular red flags that a person should
be aware of?
Speaker 3 (13:34):
that suggests that you're emotionally spending.
If you're, yes, if youremotions are dysregulated so
meaning, if you're upset aboutsomething, if you're angry about
something, if you're angryabout something, if you're
frustrated about something,that's not the time to go plan a
shopping trip, it just is.
It's the same thing as wherepeople tell you don't go grocery
shopping when you're hungry.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
Do not go to the grocery store when you're hungry
.
Well, the same applies whenyour retail therapy, for your
retail therapy days.
Don't don't plan it out ordon't do it when you're in an
emotional state.
That's a little dysregulated.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Now, if you're on a first name basis with the Amazon
guy, ups and FedEx, shouldthere be a concern?
Should we be scheduling anappointment?
Speaker 3 (14:17):
We should, because they probably shouldn't know
your name, but my husband likesto tell me that he's convinced
an Amazon shopper I mean theAmazon delivery guys and females
.
They know my name and I'm likethey do not.
He was like but they come hereregularly.
I'm like but it's all plannedout and it's you know things
that I need as a necessity.
(14:37):
It's convenient, right, and seethe thing I don't like shopping
.
So being able to order thingsonline is very, very convenient
and easy.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's what I tell myself, and I'm glad you
validated my feelings.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Yes, it's very easy and it's very, very convenient,
but you still have to have someself-control.
I'm not just ordering on Amazonand doing all of this stuff
just to be doing it For me.
I have to have a purpose to doit.
So, for instance, I have abirthday coming up.
Happy early birthday, thank you.
I appreciate that.
I have a birthday coming up andwe're going to have a get
(15:11):
together at the house, sothere's some things that I
needed, right and so, because Idon't like going to the stores
and I don't like shopping,shopping online is like the
perfect thing for me,intentional, yes, and so I still
make a list out before I evengo on, open up any apps to do
any shopping, and that keeps mefocused on going on there.
Shannon, get what you need toget and close the app out and go
(15:34):
about your business.
Don't just be surfing like, oh,this is neat, I can just buy
this.
So you still have to beresponsible, even when you're
engaging in the most convenientthings like Amazon or shopping
on Walmart and things like that.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
And I have to ask with all the news talking about
the tariffs and the impact it'sgoing to have on retailers like
Amazon, t-mobile, sheen, and soyou have individuals that may be
shopping on a regular basis.
Whether it's for a good reasonor not, obviously the expenses
it sounds like it's going tohave an impact.
So what maybe recommendationsmight you give somebody on how
(16:09):
to handle, is like if you'reused to shopping on Amazon at
will when it's your birthday,when it's a special occasion,
and now, maybe because of thetariffs, you might not be able
to do, what would you recommendto that person in terms of how
to handle that situation so thatyou don't become depressed, so
that you're not feelingfinancially stressed Because
it's not necessarily somethingthat the consumer has actually
done?
Right, that's correct.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
Planning, planning, planning Right, and also being
more intentional about whenyou're opening up the app.
What are you doing?
Asking yourself what are youdoing?
That's the question Is thissomething you really need?
Because you're not going tohave?
You may not have a therapist totap you on the shoulder hey
(16:53):
girl, do you really need to bedoing that?
Or you may not have a friend tobe there with you in that
moment.
So it's really going to takesome self-control right and some
reminders, like with some of myclients who struggle with
self-image or self-esteem issuesor anything like that.
We do this thing where we do,you know, positive affirmations
(17:15):
in a mirror.
So I'll have them do thingslike write something, get a dry
erase marker and write apositive message on a mirror, or
use sticky notes and put it incommon areas to remind you of
certain things.
So I have a good friend of minenamed Tamika.
She came up with this with thisterm I am enough or you are
(17:36):
enough.
Your greatness is enough.
Whatever you want to insert,there is enough.
And so you know, I encourageclients to write messages to
themselves on the mirror as areminder.
You can do the same thing.
It can be something as simpleas I don't need anything from
from Amazon today and stick thaton your mirror as a positive
reminder that, hey, you can getcontrol of this.
(17:57):
Doing things like that is goingto keep you from I'm not going
to say it's going to keep youfrom being depressed, because
there's some other issues that'scontributing, some deeper
issues that are probablycontributing to the depression,
and the action is you going outthere shopping, right, but it
(18:18):
can help with as a reminder foryou not to engage in it when you
don't need it.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
So when you said deeper issues, it made me think
about childhood trauma or justyour upbringing.
What impact does, though youknow as upbringing or a trauma
that we may have experienced,impact how we handle money?
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Because where do we learn how to handle money?
I know, when I was a littlegirl, my parents taught me the
importance of saving my money.
Right, you have to save yourmoney.
We didn't get into a whole lotabout investment, but I did get
a good foundation about savingmy money and making sure that my
making sure my credit was good.
(18:57):
So by the time I got off out ofhigh school and got on to
college, I had some basics right.
I kind of knew, you know, whatI needed to do to kind of
survive everything.
From that point I got it on myown.
But experiencing childhoodtrauma has an impact on the
physical, on the on theemotional, on the mental, and
(19:18):
it's ultimately going to shapeyour relationship with money.
And it's ultimately going toshape your relationship with
money.
If you grew up in poverty anddidn't have parents to educate
you on how to have a goodrelationship with money and to
be fiscally responsible, thenwhen you become an adult those
same practices are carried onuntil you interact with somebody
(19:40):
else who can kind of teach youdifferently.
So finances, child abuse andneglect all of those type of
issues will impact you as anadult.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
So what are some small impactful steps someone
can take to reduce that mentalload?
Because money impacts us everyday, everywhere.
It's not going anyplace.
So what can we do to reducethat stress that we're putting
on ourselves.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
So let's take grocery shopping.
Since we're in shopping, we'retalking about shopping.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
And be politically correct and say make groceries
because we're in Louisiana,because we make groceries.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
We don't go shop, we make groceries down here y'all.
So when you go into the grocerystore, before you go to the
grocery store, make a list.
That's one of the most you know, the most elementary and simple
things that sometimes peoplebecause some of you be surprised
the amount of people that don'tknow how to grocery shop they
go in there and they just seeall of the colors.
(20:37):
You know you got the musicplaying in a grocery store.
You got all of this stuff tobuy.
It really overly stimulates alot of people when they go in
and then they just startgrabbing things.
Right.
But if you know that yourfinances you got to make that
dollar holler or you got to makethat penny stretch make a list
before you go in there andreally think about buying things
(20:57):
that you need and not focus inon the things that you want.
Yeah, that little, that handbagis cute, but do you really need
that handbag?
If it's something that you want, plan for it and then you can
still get it, but it just haveto come at a later date.
So delaying immediategratification and immediate need
(21:19):
of things is also gonna help.
We live in a society whereeverybody want everything right
now I want.
In a society where everybodywant everything right now, I
want it right now.
I want it right now.
We have to learn to delay thethings that we want, sometimes,
especially when our financesdon't allow for us to just get
it right now, right now.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
So what would you say to that individual?
Just yesterday I was having aconversation about money and
somebody posed the question.
You know they were beingfacetious.
It conversation about money andsomebody posed the question.
You know they would be in forseizures.
It's like, but I deserve it,I'm entitled, I work hard.
So how do you tell that personthat feels that way?
But they need to rein in theirfinances or it's having a toll
on their mental health?
(21:54):
What do we say to that person?
Speaker 3 (21:57):
And so if I had that person in front of me, I would
probably start off theconversation with where they
learned their habits with money,from how they learned to have
that relationship with money,and start unlearning those
thoughts and start shifting thatbehavior.
You do deserve we deserve nicethings, but there is a way to
(22:21):
get it without having you havesuch a big impact on your
finances.
And so it's not an easy fix,because you're changing a
person's way of thinking and youchange in a way that they've
done.
They've done the same thingover and over for many, many
years, and so it's not going tohappen overnight.
But I would definitely startthere with them about how they
(22:44):
learn their money habits andwhat it means to them to think
the way they're thinking now.
And if they continue to thinkthat way, how is that going to
impact them long term versus ifyou shift the way you think and
the impact that that can have onyou long term?
Speaker 2 (23:00):
the impact that that can have on you long term, and
we have some people that weconsider avoiders.
They just avoid money, moneyconversations, balancing their,
their, their finances at allcosts.
What can we tell an individualthat's an avoider?
What?
What steps can they take tokind of get themselves to have a
(23:20):
different mindset in terms ofit's not going to be the worst
thing in the world If I look atmy bank balance, if I handle my
finances?
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Identify the why.
Why are you thinking like this?
Why don't you want to addressyour finances?
What are you afraid of?
And start talking and startbreaking down?
Why is it so scary, you know?
Why can't you have thatconversation about money?
Why can't you, you know, buy abook?
(23:49):
I learned how to balance mybills using, I remember when I
was a little girl, my mom hadthis notebook and she used to
write all of the bills down, howmuch it costs when she paid it,
and that's how I learned how topay it.
And we talked about before,when we were, you know, traumas
and the things that weexperienced when we were little
and how that impacts us as anadult.
That's one of the things thathad an impact on me, and I still
(24:11):
do, as an adult Now.
Yes, we have automatic draftsand all of that kind of stuff,
but for me, I still got to go tomy little book and still make
sure that this one was paid, andit was paid at this time, right
.
So it's really going to beabout changing behaviors,
changing their way of thinkingabout money.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
So what are some habits that somebody might have
financial habits that is reallyhaving an impact on their mental
stability that are red flagsand that they might need to
actually seek therapy.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
That are red flags and that they might need to
actually seek therapy.
When an Amazon man come intoyour house every day or every
other day and it's you haveboxes in your house that you
haven't even opened yet.
So if you have, by the end ofthe week you got like three,
four boxes sitting on a counterand you hadn't even opened them
yet.
Did you really need it?
Did you really need it when, ifpayday is today and tomorrow
(25:09):
you have a delivery, or tomorrowyou're in the mall, or tomorrow
you're like, oh my God, I spenttoo much.
You know that's probably anindication that you know you
probably need to seek some help.
When you're planning to spendthe money before you have it in
hand, then that's a time whenyou need to seek some help.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
So the news which is rarely ever good news it can
really create a lot of anxiety.
I mean, you hear about thetariffs, you hear about
inflation.
Of course, now it's studentloans.
Now they're going to startgarnishing your pay.
If, if you're in default,everything is, you know, the
stock market is going down, howcan you stay focused and
(25:53):
balanced and not create your ownself anxiety and create a
problem that maybe doesn't evenexist?
But if you're watching the news, you can't help but see this is
wrong, this is wrong.
This is wrong.
This is wrong.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
You know I call anxiety.
I tell clients anxiety.
You feel you're tripping, youtrip in and and and got your
your stress level high aboutsomething that hasn't even
happened yet.
And that's what anxiety is andunfortunately, our our news is
it breeds anxiety, higher levelsof anxiety, because it's
pushing stuff down your throatright and it has throat right
(26:27):
and it has us worried and it hasus stressed about what the
things that could potentiallyhappen.
One of the ways I balance thatis I minimize.
I watch the news just enough tostay in tuned with what's going
on in the country, but I'm notsitting there watching it every
day, because even the mostskilled person, even the most
(26:48):
balanced person, can get suckedinto trauma.
It can get sucked into thenegative if you put it in your
face all the time, just likewords of affirmation works to
help pull us out of dark places.
Sometimes the dark can pull youinto it if you're hearing it
all the time.
Remember when COVID happenedand everybody was buying up the
(27:09):
toilet tissue.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yes, toilet tissue and Lysol.
Speaker 3 (27:14):
Toilet tissue and Lysol.
You could not find a roll oftoilet tissue or a can of Lysol
on a shelf, and then, if you did, you're paying $10 for a can of
Lysol.
Paying $10 for a can of Lysol.
That hysteria and that anxietywas created by the news we're
(27:34):
going to run out of toilettissue.
Everybody got to go buy all ofthe toilet tissue, right?
And so I found myself like, ohgoodness, like wait, do we have
to do?
We need to get more toilettissue?
Do we need to go out?
And I had to often tell myselfget what we need, Right, but
don't overspend.
We're not going to spend awhole paycheck on buying up all
(27:56):
the toilet tissue.
So we really have to justremind ourselves not to get
sucked into it.
Watch the news, but don't watchit every single day, all day.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Got to take a break.
Got to take a break from it.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Too much of anything is not going to be good for you,
including the news.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
So having conversations about money for
some individuals can be really,really difficult.
Sometimes they get on thedefensive.
Or their trigger words rightWords that if you're going to
have that conversation withsomebody and you know it's not
going to be an easy conversationor they're trigger words that
maybe somebody should avoidhaving, or language they should
avoid using when we're talkingabout money.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
So I will start with asking the person you know if,
especially if you're, like, in afinancial counseling role or
even if you're a friend andyou're just kind of having
casual conversation, right, youknow you and I are sitting here
and we're talking about money,right, One of the things people
are sensitive about is, like I'mnot going to ask you, hey, how
(28:54):
much money you make, how oftenyou get paid.
Now, if we're in a conversationand you're trying to help me
with balancing my finances, thenI think a good starting point
would be how can I help you?
When you think about yourfinances, where do you see that
you need help?
You always want to keep theperson in a driver's seat, right
(29:17):
, you don't know more about methan I know about myself.
And so, even when I'm with myclients, I tell them I approach
therapy from the perspective ofI'm your cheerleader, right, I'm
your co clients.
I tell them I approach therapyfrom the perspective of I'm your
, I'm your cheerleader, right,I'm your co-pilot.
You stay in a driver's seat andI'm going to help you navigate.
Right, I'm going to give youwhat you need.
And then there are going to betimes where, if I see we're
(29:38):
driving on a road, we just wegoing out a little mirror way,
but if I see you about to fallinto a pothole and be like, hey,
kim, you might want to steer alittle left.
We don't want to go therebecause this is what's going to
happen.
But you keep the person in thedriver's seat so that they can
still remain a sense of control.
We want to maintain a person'sdignity at all times, and you
(30:00):
know, being financially strappedfor cash can be embarrassing.
That's not something that youwant to talk about if you're
struggling to make ends meet,and so one of the ways that I
think can be most beneficial isto keep that person in a
driver's seat to remain somedignity, so that they can
maintain some dignity.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
So can you define, maybe, what a healthy
relationship with money lookslike, or what are some
characteristics or tips or toolsthat somebody should focus on
if they want to make sure thatthey are either establishing or
maintaining a healthyrelationship with money?
Speaker 3 (30:33):
So, if you don't know , ask you know.
If, if it's something that Iwant to learn more about,
connect with people who knowmore than you do, so that way
you can increase your knowledge.
If you know you have a poorrelationship with money but you
know somebody else who have abetter relationship with money,
start encouraging conversationswith that person.
Ask some questions about, well,how do you do it?
(30:54):
Make a budget and try to stickto your budget.
Don't beat yourself up if youfall off the wagon a little bit
right?
Speaker 2 (31:03):
I think that is so important?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
It's very important because we all fall off and you
just got to get back on and getback on track.
How many times have we said Ineed to lose some weight, I'm
going to start going to the gym,I need to eat better, I need to
stay out of Ulta.
We start, we stop, but we startto get back on there and also
surrounding yourself with peoplewho want who who's going in a
(31:27):
direction that you're desiringto go Right.
So, if you want to do betterwith money, if you want to have
a better relationship with money, if you want to learn more with
money, surround yourself withpeople who have that same
thought process or who'sactually doing it, so that you
can learn something from them.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
All right, this is some good information.
Any final tips that you want toshare with anybody, especially
in light of, maybe in mentalhealth month, month in, relate
in terms of money.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
So don't be embarrassed.
We all have had times where weneeded a little boost or we
needed some help.
Some people are morefinancially secure and others
than others.
But it doesn't make those whoare not financially secure it
doesn't make them any less of aperson.
If you're struggling, or thinkyou may be struggling, with any
(32:12):
type of mental health disorderwhere it's anxiety, where it's
depression or any of the othermental health diagnosis, don't
be afraid to get to get help.
Mental health has such a stigmaand interrupts people wanting to
get help.
They don't want to go to themental health clinic and they
don't want nobody to know thatthey may have schizophrenia.
They don't want nobody to knowthat they're struggling with
(32:34):
anxiety.
And it's OK when we when youbreak a leg Right, If you get a
cold, a flu or anything else, werun to the doctor.
We go run to the doctor andnobody seems to have a problem
with that.
It's normal to go to the doctorif your arm is hurting right.
Let's normalize.
(32:55):
Go and see clinical socialworkers, psychologists,
psychiatrists, licensedprofessional counselors to take
care of our mental health aswell as just like we take care
of our physical health.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Well, good information.
Thank you so much, Dr ShannonMatthews, for stopping by the
podcast and sharing thatinformation so that we can build
a better, stronger, healthierrelationship with our money.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's time for Blueprint Building Blocks Small
changes that lead to bigfinancial wins.
Let's stack up for successTrack the triggers.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Identify what specific financial stressors,
like debt bills or evenirregular income, are affecting
your mental health.
Awareness is the first steptoward taking control.
Budget with boundaries.
Create a realistic spendingplan that reflects your
priorities, not your pressure.
A budget should reduce anxiety,not add to it.
(33:56):
Don't suffer in silence.
Financial stress is common andyou're not alone.
Talk to a financial counselor,mental health professional or a
trusted advisor before thingssnowball out of control.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
That's a wrap on today's Blueprint Building
Blocks.
Stay on track with yourfinancial journey.
Subscribe to the Money Matterspodcast and visit
neighborsfcuorg slash financialwellness for more tools to help
you build a strong financialfuture.
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