July 3, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, I sit down with Joe Clark, CFP®, to talk about a topic that’s crucial but often ignored by young adults: estate planning. I know, it sounds like something for older folks, but trust me, there are simple, powerful steps you can take right now to make sure your assets go where you want them to go. We break down the jargon, simplify the process, and share real-life examples of why this matters way more than you think. Whether you’re single, married, have kids, or just starting out financially, this episode is for you.
💰 This Week’s Money Talking Points
How can you get started with estate planning?
What are some of the documents and terms you need to be aware of with estate planning?
How can you bring up estate planning to older members of your family?
⏱️ Episode Timestamps
03:00 – What is estate planning, really?
04:30 – Wills explained
06:00 – The importance of how your assets are titled
07:00 – Probate & how to avoid it
10:00 – Are beneficiary designations enough?
13:00 – Naming a guardian for your children
14:00 – Healthcare directives and power of attorney
17:00 – The Cheesecake Factory analogy
19:00 – Estate planning as an evolving process
21:00 – Joe’s biggest lesson learned in his 20s
📚 Resources & Mentions
Joe Clark’s website: YourLifeAfterWork.com
Book recommendations:
- Atomic Habits by James Clear
- Tiny Habits by BJ Fogg
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"Upbeat Forever" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker (00:00):
Welcome Money Buddies to this week's episode of Money
(00:02):
Talk.
This week we're talking aboutdeath, estate taxes, and
starting while you're young.
I'm your host, Skylar Fleming,and let's get talking.
One of the scariest things toget started with is estate
(00:24):
planning, plain and simple, butit doesn't have to be so
complicated.
I know that this is somethingwith a direct impact in my life,
so I'm excited to bring it allto you as well, who are in that
young adult or just gettingstarted with your money There's
a lot to learn in the area ofestate planning, but it doesn't
have to be so daunting, and itcertainly doesn't have to be so
complicated.
There are some simple thingsthat you can do right away that
(00:44):
take away some of that headacheand stress that you start
thinking about when you think awill or an estate, things like
that becoming extremelystressful.
Very quick.
One of the simple things you cando is naming beneficiaries on
your accounts.
It may or may not be enough.
We'll talk about that more inthe interview today.
But it's a great place to getstarted.
But on a basic level, estateplanning is just taking your
current assets and making surethere's a plan or a path for
(01:06):
them when you die.
Not if when you die.
That's why we have to have theseconversations now and why this
is one of the most essentialmoney talks we're gonna have on
this show.
So we're gonna jump right outthe gate with some definitions
that you'll commonly hear withestate planning.
So don't be alarmed by those.
I wanna make sure to get thoseoutta the way so you know what
we're talking about.
As we're throwing thesedifferent terms around, and once
we get through those, we'regonna dive right into some
(01:27):
actionable takeaways and somethings that you can do right
away so that you can take thoseideas and apply'em to your
financial situation veryquickly.
I don't have a Skyler story timefor you today, so let's keep it
going and keep it moving to getinto today's interview.
Today's Money Buddy is JoeClark.
Joe is a CFP and former adjunctprofessor at Purdue University
and the managing partner of atrust services company, the
(01:49):
Financial Enhancement GroupTrust Services.
Over the past 37 years, Joe hasassisted more than 2,500 people
navigating their financialjourney.
Joe has been married to his wifefor 36 years.
He has two daughters, twograndchildren, and a rescue
hound dog named Rupert.
He's a avid golfer and a scubadiver.
But today he is here to help ustalk about estate planning.
So the money talking points forthis week's episode are one, how
(02:12):
can you get started with estateplanning?
Two, what are some of thedocuments and terms that you
need to be aware of with estateplanning?
And three, how can you bring upestate planning to your older
family members?
And that's gonna be a fun one totalk about.
So make sure to stay tuned forthat third money talking point,
but with those money talkingpoints in mind, let's get
talking and welcome Joe to theshow.
Joe Clark (02:31):
Good morning, Skylar.
Good morning, everybody.
Happy to be here.
Skyler (02:35):
Yeah.
I'm excited for thisconversation because this is not
one that you're gonna hear onmost podcasts Talking to young
adults.
You're not gonna hear him talkabout estate planning.
it's a terrifying word becausewhat does that mean?
It means we're all going to dieand we have to have a plan for
it, or else there's gonna be aplan in place that the state
puts in place for you.
I've been learning a lot in theCFP education world.
this is fresh on my mind, so I'mexcited to teach it to everybody
(02:58):
else as well.
let's start out with just somebasics of estate planning to
help people understand what itis.
what is estate planning?
How do you define it?
Joe Clark (03:06):
Good question, Skylar.
Let's redefine it.
first of all, it's not justabout when you die.
that is probably one of thebiggest mistakes that.
people make in real life andwhere your audience, has two
concerns likely.
Number one, I commend you forbeing on the show.
the majority of people aren'tthat worried about their money,
(03:28):
let alone listening to this
Skyler (03:30):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (03:31):
I've been known as one of the few people who can
make tax planning exciting.
hopefully I can do that for youtoday in what I call legacy
planning, not estate planning.
understand estate planning isabout others.
That's why you think it's aboutdeath, Skylar.
Skyler (03:45):
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (03:47):
fees, and the legal transfer of assets.
What I like to teach in my firmis understanding that it's
legacy planning that is aboutfinancial dignity and your
reputation.
Skyler (03:57):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (03:57):
so if you wanna look at it from estate planning that
it's fees, expenses, and thatlegal transfer of assets is what
you're trying to accomplish.
Skyler (04:07):
Yeah, I like that there's a little bit more to it
than just what happens to yourmoney at death.
There's some opportunity, Ithink, especially if you get
started on it earlier, there'sopportunity to save on those
fees and taxes.
You could have giftingstrategies as a part of it.
There's a little bit more.
That goes into it than just awill per se, which is our next
definition of what is a will,like what is this document that
everyone needs to have?
Joe Clark (04:28):
So a will hopefully for the younger generation is
not gonna be an issue for theolder generation.
It's very much an issue.
people tend to believe wills arethis very powerful document.
in truth, they're one of theweakest documents you will ever
have.
Skyler (04:44):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (04:45):
you're gonna tell people that they either have a
will or don't have a will.
you either die test state,meaning
Skyler (04:51):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (04:51):
your own will or you die in test state, meaning you
have the one the state providesfor you.
I'm married, I have two adultdaughters and grandchildren.
if I didn't have a will, thestate of Indiana would take
everything and this is key,
Skyler (05:05):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:06):
everything that's in my name alone and give half to
my wife and a quarter to each ofmy two daughters.
Skyler (05:14):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:14):
That may not be what you want, but it never actually
happens for most Americans andsee the number one challenge in
estate planning and legacyplanning.
understanding this technicalterm called funding.
Skyler (05:30):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:31):
back when I was 21 years old, starting in the
industry, my granny, said thatshe wanted everything to go to
my dad and my uncle.
I saw the title to her mobilehome that she had purchased.
It was all of the resources thatshe had, and the title was in
her name and my uncle's name.
(05:51):
Jointly,
Skyler (05:52):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:53):
And I said, granny, that's not what you said you
wanted.
And she replied to me, the lastliving person allowed to do so,
Joey, it's in the will.
And I said, the will doesn'tmatter.
It
Skyler (06:07):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:08):
to the will.
And so for years I had, andpeople laugh, but I had a will
that gave my mom the EiffelTower, my dad, the Cubs, and my
brother the Bears.
Merely proving you cannot giveaway what you do not own.
Skyler (06:22):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:22):
So that will is a legal document, number one, if
you use a will, you're gonna gothrough a process called
probate.
Skyler (06:30):
Yep.
Joe Clark (06:31):
wanna wind up in probate It's expensive, it's
timely, and it's simply notnecessary.
The will by definition.
Says the things that are only inmy name, so not my house, which
is owned with my wife and I,it's actually in our trust, not
my Jeep, which is owned in bothof our names.
And now is in my trust.
it's not my 401k, it's notanything that has a beneficiary
Skyler (06:54):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:55):
It would be anything that was solely Joe's,
Skyler (06:58):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:58):
Barbara's.
Skyler (07:00):
Yeah.
That's such a good picture topaint because I think people
don't quite realize that.
And you mentioned a key thingwe're gonna talk about later is
beneficiaries.
Or joint ownership.
That's something you have toknow about when it comes to
estate planning or just planningwho gets the money or the asset
after you die and you started totease into probate.
And like you mentioned, it's theprocess where they figure out
(07:20):
what's gonna happen with thewill and they kind of work
through the will and process it.
Joe Clark (07:24):
if you're a young individual and you're married,
the majority of what you have isgoing to be held jointly between
you and your spouse.
If you're single and you die,your family, if you have any
assets, will wind up in probate.
But what I find is most peoplethat are under 30, majority of
their assets, if they have any,are life insurances.
(07:46):
4 0 1 Ks and IRAs.
Skyler (07:48):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (07:49):
Right, or if they have a house, they're usually
married in its own jointly.
Skyler (07:53):
Yep.
Joe Clark (07:53):
so if you fall into that normal category, remember
if you have a beneficiarydesignation, it's not going
through your will.
Thus, it's not going throughprobate.
Skyler (08:03):
And then one of the things people say, you have to
have a will.
You need to make sure to have awill.
It's terrible to die without awill, and it kind of sounds like
it's not a super great processto die with a will.
Like there's better ways to goabout it, but why is it so bad
if you don't have one?
Joe Clark (08:16):
so I will tell you I have a will.
It's called a poor, not POOR.
It's A-P-O-U-R will, and itessentially says if anything
happens where something didn'tget to my trust,
Skyler (08:31):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (08:31):
put it in my trust.
I want my trust to dictate wheremy assets go, but I'm 58.
I've done this for a long time.
I've built a company, so myassets are a little more complex
than probably the majority ofyour listeners.
Skyler (08:48):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (08:48):
you're okay as long as things are owned jointly or
you have a beneficiarydesignation and still having a
basic will that says, anything Imissed, please make sure mom and
dad get it, or my wife gets it,or the Humane Society gets it,
depending on what your wishesare.
Skyler (09:05):
Yeah, it sounds like you're just trying to simplify
it down so that there's aslittle as possible that that
will has to control.
And if there is stuff that thewill needs to control, it has a
very direct path to the itemthat you want to control, like a
trust or things like that.
And you mentioned beneficiarydesignations, and I think these
are a huge deal.
My wife and I.
We were actually talking acouple months ago, we were like,
maybe we should, we need to geta will in place, right?
you hear ads for it all thetime.
(09:27):
Pay for a will service.
Like there's these, easy onlineones.
And we were thinking about it.
We're like, well, hang on.
We don't have a bunch of complexassets.
most of the listeners, includingme, have a very simple, net
worth, It's very simple.
And we were like, hang on.
Could we get away with justhaving.
Beneficiary designations on allof our accounts because mainly
it's just cash in differentaccounts or investments but it's
(09:47):
just different bank accounts,like a 401k or an IRA.
Is designating beneficiaries onthose enough, or is there maybe
still another step that you needto take to make sure you're
really covered or is just sayingpayable on death?
Is that good?
Joe Clark (09:59):
Es, especially at your age, Skylar.
the beneficiary designationswork fine.
And remember, when you get into,you use the word simple and
complex.
A lot of times people put estateplanning in an asset size.
If you've
Skyler (10:14):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (10:15):
million dollars, you need to do this.
It really is understanding thecomplexity of the asset you own.
Skyler (10:21):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (10:22):
a billion dollar life insurance policy and you only
had one beneficiary and youweren't trying to control the
distributions, you don't evenneed a trust.
You don't even really need a
Skyler (10:32):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (10:33):
because that asset won't get there.
You could have a hundredthousand dollars in different
farm brown plots, the startingof your business, which requires
some more complex thoughtprocess.
Skyler (10:43):
If it's just you have this really large bank account.
And you have four people thatyou wanna split it up evenly.
You make that beneficiarydesignation 25%, and that's
probably all you need to do.
It can be pretty simple.
Joe Clark (10:55):
pay attention to what Skylar just said, ladies and
gentlemen, because it'scritical.
people tend to go to the bankand try to add a name, That's
not what you wanna
Skyler (11:04):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (11:05):
You're not trying to add a name.
trying to add what's called aTOD or a POD, depending on the
state and the bank for transferon death or payable on death.
Those are essentiallybeneficiary designations That
gives you no ownership.
Skyler (11:21):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (11:22):
to the bank, if grandpa dies, here's who gets
the money.
It keeps it out of probate.
Doesn't make a gift to you
Skyler (11:30):
Yep.
Joe Clark (11:31):
It's
Skyler (11:31):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (11:31):
inheriting and that is very critical.
We see commonly.
People have four kids.
they go to a bank and they addone of the kids on the account
so that it's now joint owned.
Well, first of all, from the IRSperspective, that's a gift.
Skyler (11:46):
Yep.
Joe Clark (11:46):
And second, the presumption is that when
Grandpapa dies, that one siblingis gonna divide it up with the
other three.
Well, even if they are willingto do that, many times it
creates a tax problem.
So don't go that
Skyler (11:59):
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
More gifts, more transfers ininstead of the proper just here
it is on death legally viabeneficiary designation.
It can really get complicated ifyou just start adding people to
everything.
Especially if you had multiplekids, like you had one to the
house, you had one two year bankaccount.
Like that just creates such amess that.
It is so much easier.
Just make sure you're usingbeneficiary designations, but I
(12:21):
wanna talk about some key thingsthat people need to know with
estate planning, because a lotof people say you need to name
guardians if you have kids, andthat's a key piece of estate
planning or using a will.
What are some other key thingsthat people need to know that
they can get in place quickly?
Joe Clark (12:36):
We will start with the kids.
you can control where the moneygoes.
You can't control where thechildren go.
And
Skyler (12:41):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (12:42):
you need to understand that, Barb and I had
a document that said ifsomething happened to the two of
us that my brother got mydaughters
Skyler (12:51):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (12:52):
mean that one of the four grandparents wouldn't have
shown up and said, I want thekids,
Skyler (12:56):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (12:56):
Only the judge will be able to declare guardianship,
but they generally will rely onthat form.
Skyler (13:03):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:03):
control is who's in charge of the money.
You're gonna want a healthcaredirective,
Skyler (13:08):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (13:09):
of what age you are.
a living will, to say, Hey,here's how I want to be treated
if I happen to be on lifesupport.
If I'm in an accident.
Most of your listeners, at yourage, you're more likely to die
of an accident than you are of aheart attack
Skyler (13:21):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:22):
like that.
So make sure it says, Hey, Idon't want life support any
longer than I need it.
Make sure you've named theperson who has that power,
especially if you're single,
Skyler (13:32):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:32):
the authority to make that direction.
and it needs to be on a thumbdrive that maybe you keep in
your car or somewhere on yourphone where you can
Skyler (13:41):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:41):
to people.
You'd be amazed the number oftimes people show up at the
hospital, I've got a document,but it's back at home, or it's
in the safety deposit
Skyler (13:49):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:49):
You want to have it accessible to some degree.
Power of attorney is critical.
very similar to a will.
A lot of people think power ofattorney documents are more
powerful than they really are.
Skylar can give me a power ofattorney document, which extends
his authority to me to sign myname, it doesn't replace his
(14:10):
authority to sign his name.
Skyler (14:12):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (14:12):
And one of the challenges I see with older
people is they presume a powerof attorney takes away Skylar's
power.
if he's incapacitated.
having dementia issues orcognitive impairment he can no
longer sign his name, and thebank knows that is not at all
what happens.
Skyler
Skyler (14:30):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (14:30):
sign his name.
It's just I also have theauthority to act on his behalf.
But those are the documents thatyou really need on top of the
will.
Skyler (14:38):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I'm hearing, backupplans as a way for that.
Like if there is a situationwhere, like you said, I still
have the right, but maybe Idon't have the capacity to
exercise that Right.
Then the power of attorney can,potentially come in and help out
with that.
I've heard this, horror storyhonestly, but the bank safety
deposit box held all thedocuments that they needed to.
it was just created this messycircle that they couldn't get
(15:00):
into it because the person died,but they needed the documents
out of it because the persondied.
So that's something to be awareof that could really throw off
and cause major delays in theprocess.
But you've mentioned quite a fewthings that young listeners
maybe don't need this wholeentire massive trust because
things are simple.
you've mentioned quite a fewthings like power of attorney,
we've knocked out some of those.
What is at stake if people don'tset these things up?
(15:23):
let's say they forget about thebeneficiary part.
What if you don't havebeneficiaries on your accounts?
Joe Clark (15:27):
There should be nobody allowed to walk planet
Earth that is in the financialservices industry that doesn't
name a beneficiary.
you always want to begin withthe end in mind.
Skyler (15:37):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (15:38):
So, yes, you will die.
That will happen.
But more likely than dying isyou will live.
you always wanna look at lifelike a Cheesecake Factory menu.
There's 218 options on thatmenu, right?
Skyler (15:55):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (15:55):
beautiful, beautiful gig, and you walk in and see
this menu, and if you knowanything about food, you're just
overwhelmed.
it is phenomenal and everythingis good
Skyler (16:05):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:05):
the waiter walks over and you have to make a decision,
right?
Skyler (16:09):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (16:10):
lot of times people don't understand why rich people
are frustrated.
I will tell you, it's becausetheir menu is so thick, they
have
Skyler (16:17):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:18):
and they've gotta limit, eliminate those down even
more so than most people to beable to get to the choices that
have to be made.
'cause at the end of the day,you have to make a decision.
Skyler (16:28):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:28):
wanna begin with the end of mind.
You wanna understand why you'regoing through that accumulation
phase.
What you're doing is making yourmenu of choices in the future
bigger.
Skyler (16:37):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:37):
the hardest work by saying no to things you could
have today.
Barb and I went to Gatlinburg,not Disney, We live in Indiana.
we said no to bigger cars.
We said no to nicer houses sothat we would have more in the
future.
Those are tough decisions.
What
Skyler (16:53):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:53):
money is a little bit easier, but you're gonna go
through these phases and as youdo, things need to change.
When you're younger, make surethat assets are jointly owned.
sure everything has abeneficiary designation.
if I had to choose and youdon't,'cause most attorneys will
do these as a bundle, but if Ihad to choose at 30 years old
(17:13):
between having a will and havingmy healthcare representative.
Am I living
Skyler (17:19):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (17:19):
then I would take the, the, I would take the two
ladder.
Skyler (17:22):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (17:22):
you appoint who you want to be in charge of saying
pull the plug or don't pull theplug, depending on your state,
Skyler (17:29):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (17:30):
how you want to be treated.
If you're capable of thinkingfor yourself.
Skyler (17:34):
Yeah, that's really interesting.
And I think so many people, canmiss the mark because the
overall picture of a will and atrust gets talked about a lot
more.
But there's a lot more piecesyou can do, like you said, when
you're living, if you're in yourtwenties.
You're more likely to be in acar accident because you're
driving more than a retiree Sothere's a lot of things you can
do now that are smaller andsimpler, but just aren't talked
(17:55):
about as much.
So thank you for bringing thoseup.
Joe Clark (17:58):
welcome.
I've been, I've been in thisindustry for 37 years, longer
than most of you have beenalive, when I say you're going
to die, but you're more likelyto live,
Skyler (18:09):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (18:09):
people, I mean, obviously we all die, but more
of us will have cognitive,decline or cognitive impairment.
That's the one with thediagnosis as we age, simply
because we're living longer.
And you
Skyler (18:22):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (18:22):
make sure that your tools or documents evolve as you
evolve.
As that cheesecake factory menugets bigger as your choices that
you can make in gets larger.
You wanna make sure you're in asituation to have your documents
match those decisions.
Skyler (18:39):
Yeah, and making sure that the people Who are a part
of this plan, know about it.
That's something that just cameto my mind You mentioned the
power of attorney or the personwho can make the decision to
pull the plug, I'm glad we wereable to go through so many terms
today because I know I'm in thefinance space, I know there's a
lot of people listening that,like you said, at least you're
in a place where you'relistening to a money podcast,
you're so much ahead.
(18:59):
Of everybody else around youbecause they just frankly don't
care about this sort of stuff.
But just listening to this getsthose gears turning in your
head, and hopefully you'llpotentially be like me and my
wife, where you're like, Hey,let's sit down and talk about
it.
it doesn't need to be ascomplicated as the whole entire
process.
Let's make sure and go throughall our accounts and make sure
beneficiaries are designated.
And that could be enough, butjust listening to this at least
(19:21):
get your gears turning and getyou moving in the right
direction.
So this has been a fantasticconversation.
That's really helped.
One, open my eyes to it doesn'thave to all just be a will.
Like there's a lot of differentthings to consider, but also
there's things that are moreimportant, like healthcare
directives and power ofattorneys that can be set up
while you're living.
Joe, this has been fantastic.
It's been really educational forme, so I'm sure everyone
(19:41):
listening.
Is also taking a bunch away.
I got two final questions foryou here.
The first one will be, how canpeople learn more or contact
you?
But then the last one, to giveyou a second to think about it,
is what's one thing you wish youknew about estate planning in
your twenties?
Joe Clark (19:54):
Well, thank you Kellar and I've enjoyed being
here take what I said seriously.
I commend
Skyler (19:58):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (19:59):
taking the time to learn this.
Skyler (20:01):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (20:02):
some of you are taking care of yourselves.
Some of you probably have aloved one, like a grandparent
that you care about.
so it, it really, it really doesmatter.
can always find out more aboutus at your life after work.com.
Um, the, and, and, and I willprobably send you right back to
Skyler.
(20:22):
if you listen to his program,support is program to the best
of your ability.
Skyler (20:27):
Well, thank you.
Joe Clark (20:28):
that I wish I knew, I'm a little bit different,
Skylar in most people, I startedwhen I was 21 years old.
Skyler (20:35):
So you knew this in your twenties.
Joe Clark (20:36):
I, I love to learn and, it didn't take me long to
recognize.
with granny's estate, littlepeople understood about
Skyler (20:47):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (20:48):
about making sure that the way your asset was
owned matched the way that youwanted your asset to go at the
end.
that was very helpful to me.
You said another key thing.
You know, I will tell you withthe estate the size that I have
today, it's a whole lot easierto think about legacy and estate
planning.
Skyler (21:05):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (21:05):
and sold houses, as I built businesses, understanding
what an S Corp and a C Corp and
Skyler (21:11):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (21:11):
it becomes simpler when it applies in your own
life.
so do baby steps if you have to.
You don't have to get this allat one time.
But my two favorite teachers ofhabits, BJ Fogs, wrote a book
called Tiny Habits.
He was also a professor to a guynamed James Clear that wrote
Atomic Habits
Skyler (21:31):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (21:31):
never forget James Clear's greatest quotation
success is never dependent uponone thing, but failure
Skyler (21:38):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (21:39):
be right.
It's no good to save andaccumulate money to have a
beautiful relationship with yourspouse.
and you're saving andaccumulating money to screw it
up with a bad beneficiarydesignation
Skyler (21:51):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (21:52):
or to not have something else planned and at
all to be for, not, makes nosense to me.
Always begin with the end inmind.
There are a lot of things thatcan mess it up.
Just keep doing the rightthings.
Baby steps,
Skyler (22:04):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Joe Clark (22:05):
got.
So.
Skyler (22:06):
Yes.
I love that and I love don't,don't put in some magic
provision about your C corp thatyou plan to grow in 20 years,
because frankly, you don't needthat in all of your estate
planning.
Keep it simple and do the nextright thing and you're gonna be
good.
I love that because youmentioned the one bad thing can
screw it up.
It can leave such a stain if youhave a former spouse as your
beneficiary on something and noone gets any of the money.
(22:29):
And the former spouse keeps itlike how?
that messes it all up.
So go one step at a time andmake sure you're making the next
right step.
But Joe, this has been afantastic conversation about a
topic that not a lot of peoplethink about.
thank you so much for coming on.
Joe Clark (22:41):
You are very welcome.
Good to be here.
Have a great day.
Speaker (22:53):
Thank you so much to Joe Clark for coming on the
episode today.
I know that was a great one andI hope you all enjoyed it as
well.
But let's start with the moneytalking points here.
The first one, how can you getstarted with estate planning?
Well, you can start simple.
Take easy little baby steps.
You don't have to fret so muchabout trying to do it all at
once.
This is something that wouldscare my wife and I away from
doing some estate planning.
(23:14):
You just need to figure out whatthe next step is and do that one
simple thing.
It's likely going to be thatyour first step is beneficiary
designations.
And to be honest, like me and mywife, you might not need to go
past that.
That might be all that you needto do right now in terms of
estate planning, you might notneed to set up a whole trust or
that entire kit and caboodle andeverything that includes.
(23:35):
You may just be able to startwith that one document where you
write down all thebeneficiaries, and then of
course, make sure you actuallylog into your accounts and
update the beneficiaries,because just writing'em down on
a piece of paper.
Won't be good enough to actuallyupdate them online, but this is
what my wife and I did.
Here's the story about exactlywhat we did.
I started out by writing out aGoogle Doc with all the
different accounts that we have,all the different organizations
(23:58):
that they're with, the differentinstitutions, the name of the
account, what type of account itwas, and then the phone number
for that company.
And then I wrote PrimaryBeneficiary, secondary
Beneficiary.
And then under each one I wentone by one and logged into that
account, found the beneficiarydesignation online, and wrote it
on that document.
Now, this was very easy.
(24:18):
I was able to do it all at once,but I didn't even have to.
This is something you could doover a couple weeks.
You don't really have to do thisall at once.
And guess what?
I discovered an account that wasset up that did not have a
beneficiary designated huge facepalm type of moment.
I'm on this podcast trying totell you all how to do better
with your money.
And even I make little mistakeslike this, like not designating
(24:40):
a beneficiary, but that's whyit's so key to check these sort
of things and make sure to.
Know that it is set up.
I was shocked that I forgotthis.
How could I forget this?
But thankfully, I went throughcombed through all our
beneficiaries.
Fix that one.
And I did it one step at a time,one account at a time.
And then my wife and I, werealized our net worth isn't
much more complicated than that.
(25:00):
So we don't need to do anythingmore than that.
And you may not need to either.
You might just have a 401ksomewhere or an IRA somewhere.
And maybe a savings account hereor there, and you just need to
go through all of those andcheck who's the payable on death
or transferable on death or thebeneficiary that's designated on
that account.
And that might be all that youneed to do.
So people will often, in theestate planning world, use a
(25:22):
blanket statement that a will isthe main thing that you need to
get.
They'll just preach andadvertise that you need to sign
up for their will service orcreate a will online.
But frankly, a will may not besomething you need.
And that's because there's otherdocuments that are more
important and there's otherthings that you can do to avoid
even needing a will, likebeneficiary designations.
But there are other documentsthat are much more important,
and let's talk about that in thenext money talking point.
(25:44):
The next money talking point iswhat are some of the documents
and terms that you need to beaware of with estate planning?
Well, we did identify a lot ofthese right in the very
beginning of the episode.
And the will is something thatwe will all hear about.
Everyone says you need to get awill, right?
But I like to say that a willwill go through probate, and
that's something we wanna avoid.
We need to think aboutbeneficiaries payable on death,
(26:06):
transferable on death, like Ijust talked about in the last
money talking point.
That might be all you need.
It's the first document that youwanna make sure you have set up
on every single account.
This is more important than awill because you can avoid
probate with a little TLC, whichstands for trusts.
Laws and contracts.
A beneficiary designation is alegal way to make sure that your
money passes onto someone else.
(26:28):
Without the court having tointervene or anything like that,
the beneficiary designation willsend the money to the correct
person.
Now, what is a trust?
A trust is another term you canhear when it comes to estate
planning, and this is a wholeentire account structure and a
document that can be set up tomanage your assets.
I'm not gonna cover these in alot of detail right now because
I think it's a little beyond thescope of what I want to talk
(26:49):
about with simple estates andsome simple estate planning.
But a trust is pretty much anentire account structure where
you can write a document todetermine how the money is to be
distributed, and that's therules they have to follow.
It's a pretty neat tool, butwe're not gonna talk about it in
much more detail today.
A guardian.
Well, if you have children, thisis the number one most important
planning opportunity that liesbefore you.
(27:09):
If you're listening to this andyou have a children from age
zero to however old they areuntil they need to take care of
themselves.
If there's at any point whereyou have guardianship over
somebody.
You need to make sure there'spaperwork in place that if you
were to die, someone else isdesignated the guardian.
And stop whatever you're doingin your financial life, whatever
(27:30):
project you're working on, andmake this your very next step.
You absolutely need to set upthis document so that it can
establish your wishes for whereyour children go when you die.
Now, power of attorney, this isanother thing that you'll hear
thrown around when it comes toestate planning.
And like Joe mentioned in theepisode, you don't lose your
rights.
You're not signing away yourrights or your ability to
(27:50):
exercise your rights.
You're just giving somebody elsethe right.
Should you be unable to exerciseyour rights on your own?
Set this up now while you're ina good condition.
And that way, if you need tohave things taken care of, this
is already in place.
Someone else can have the legalrights to take care of it.
Should you be disabled.
There's four different types ofpowers of attorney.
There's a general one, a limitedone, a durable one, and a
(28:11):
springing.
Each one has its own use case,and you should have one set up
so that someone can continue towork out your financial or legal
manners should you be becomeincapacitated.
That's what a power of attorneyis for.
Now, another term you'll hearthrown around is a medical
directive, and you don't wannaleave it up to someone at random
to decide your medical outcome.
Decide it for yourself now whileyou're in a good state of mind
to be able to do so.
(28:32):
Do you want someone to pull theplug?
As people always jokingly say,they're like, if I'm not in good
condition, just pull the plug.
Are you serious about that?
Because you should write it downand then people know your
directive medically, and peopledon't have to guess or keep you
going longer than maybe you wantto.
And this goes with all otherdecisions.
Make them before you have tomake the decision.
(28:53):
Make it when you have theopportunity to make the
decision.
When you're in a good state ofmind with all of these things
here, whether it's setting upbeneficiaries.
Writing a will, creating atrust, designating guardians,
designating a power of attorney,and writing your medical
directives.
Do them all.
While you're in a good mindset,and I know I say take the next
baby step, so let's talk aboutwhat some of those baby steps
(29:14):
could be.
Well, if you're a parent, yourfirst step needs to be
guardianship, and then foreverybody else, and after that's
done, you need to make surebeneficiary designations are set
up on your account.
And then consider power ofattorneys and then consider
medical directives.
And I think you could put thoselast two in potentially either
order.
But those are kind of the steps.
You should go in one step at atime to make sure that you have
(29:37):
everything in place while you'rein a good state of mind right
now.
And now those last three of aguardian power of attorney and
medical directive are moreimportant than a will 100%.
And a beneficiary designation isalso just as much, if not way
more important than a willbecause it's a way to avoid it.
It's a way to make it simplerand easier.
I wish a beneficiary designationwas a legal requirement that
(29:58):
financial institutions had tomake sure we're on every single
account.
But now that you've learned allabout estate planning in this
episode and you're thinking,wow, I hope my family has this
stuff set up because I don'tneed to worry about it now,
newsflash, you do need to worryabout it now.
That's why you're listening tothis episode.
So make sure your estateplanning's in order.
But then how can you bring it upto older members of your family
to make sure their affairs arein order?
(30:18):
That's the third money talkingpoint.
How can you bring up estateplanning to older members of
your family?
Well, don't be rude about it.
Don't be aggressive and don'ttry to fix their estate plan.
Don't come into it saying, oh, Ithink your estate plan's wrong.
Let's do something different.
Your grandparents or parents maylet you go ahead and read their
will.
I've done this with my grandmabefore because when I was
learning about.
Wills and estate planning.
(30:39):
I said, Hey, how do theseactually look?
Can I just read yours realquick?
It'll help you understand howthings are going to work, and I
think it could be beneficial forthe entire family to have a
meeting about how is the estategonna be distributed, when and
if, and how soon should a familymember pass away?
But we all need to be willing tohave the discussion and of
course.
Don't come at it from a point ofwanting to learn what you're
(31:01):
going to get or trying to changewhat you're going to get.
If you have wealth in yourfamily, that's just gonna make
people upset and make peoplekind of offput.
Having this conversation.
If your whole goal is to justcome in and try to get more
money, come at it withquestions.
Ask questions about how theirestate plan was set up, who did
they talk to, how did they setit up?
How did the money getdistributed, how does it get
split up?
(31:21):
Things like that.
How do they decide about usingthe certain kind of trust that
they might have used?
Mention that you heard aboutGuardians on this podcast, and
ask how they set those up.
Same goes for the medical powerof attorney or a general power
of attorney.
Ask who those people are.
It's very likely that there wasan attorney involved in creating
these estate planning documentsfor your parents or
grandparents.
Know who that person is.
(31:41):
Make sure you have theirbusiness card or the company
that they work for so you knowwho to call when the time comes
that this estate plan needs tobe put into action.
That is, I think, one of themost key things because this
person likely has a copy of theestate plan and they can help
you figure out how to get thingsmoving in the right direction,
get things submitted to theright places.
But overall, just don't bring upthis conversation from a place
(32:02):
of wanting to change how muchmoney you're gonna get or trying
to get more money, or trying tomake it so someone else gets
less money.
That's just not helpful and it'sgonna ruin relationships, but
you need to come at this from apoint of asking questions about
these different things that youlearned about and say, how did
you set that up?
Especially when it comes tothose things, maybe beyond a
will that this might be yourfirst time hearing about it.
(32:22):
Ask your family members, Hey,how do you have this set up?
How did you set that up?
Who did you talk to to getsomething like this set up?
Because there's a lot ofdifferent things that do go into
a full entire estate plan, butjust remember, it doesn't have
to be that complicated.
If you're young and you have asimple net worth and nothing's
too complicated yet, just startwith beneficiary designations
and you're gonna be just fineand you can sleep at night.
(32:44):
Knowing your money's gonna gowhere you want to, should
anything happen to you and youunfortunately die.
But that doesn't for the threemoney talking points today, what
a great episode that was aboutsomething that is so often
overlooked.
It does not have to becomplicated.
I wanna leave you with this.
Estate planning doesn't have tobe overwhelming or something
that you do all at once.
For my wife and I, we startedwith that simple Google doc that
(33:06):
I mentioned, listing out ouraccounts and checking on each
beneficiaries, and that's it.
One step at a time, and that maybe.
All that you need to do.
You may not necessarily need awill or a trust right now, but
beneficiary designations, powersof attorney and medical
directives can be way moreimportant to get in place early.
And if you're ready to go alittle bit further, start asking
around about how other peoplehave it set up or start asking
(33:28):
some simple questions and havesome fun money.
Talks about this.
I hope you were able to learn alot about estate planning today,
and I hope you shared thisepisode with a friend and go and
have a money talk.
If you have any questions aboutestate planning, please send
them my way and I'd be happy toanswer them for you and talk
about'em on the show.
If you enjoyed this episode,please leave a review wherever
you listen to podcasts.
And thank you for listening totoday's episode.
(33:49):
The best way to stay up to dateand connected to All Things
Money Talk is to subscribe tothe podcast and sign up for my
email list.
Head over to Money talk.show andsubmit your name and email right
there on the homepage.
You can also use the contactpage on my website to send me
any questions.
If you're looking to get startedwith budgeting, I've partnered
with my budget coach, a platformthat connects your budget
directly with me, your financialcoach, and I'd love to work with
(34:10):
you over there and help you withyour budgeting.
Remember, the link is in theshow notes.
And also remember, the best wayto learn from today's episode is
to go and have a money talkabout today's topic with a
fellow money buddy.
But thank you for listening tothis week's episode of Money
Talk.
I'm your host, Skyler Fleming.
Have a great week.
Welcome Money Buddies to this week's episode of Money
(00:02):
Talk.
This week we're talking aboutdeath, estate taxes, and
starting while you're young.
I'm your host, Skylar Fleming,and let's get talking.
One of the scariest things toget started with is estate
(00:24):
planning, plain and simple, butit doesn't have to be so
complicated.
I know that this is somethingwith a direct impact in my life,
so I'm excited to bring it allto you as well, who are in that
young adult or just gettingstarted with your money There's
a lot to learn in the area ofestate planning, but it doesn't
have to be so daunting, and itcertainly doesn't have to be so
complicated.
There are some simple thingsthat you can do right away that
(00:44):
take away some of that headacheand stress that you start
thinking about when you think awill or an estate, things like
that becoming extremelystressful.
Very quick.
One of the simple things you cando is naming beneficiaries on
your accounts.
It may or may not be enough.
We'll talk about that more inthe interview today.
But it's a great place to getstarted.
But on a basic level, estateplanning is just taking your
current assets and making surethere's a plan or a path for
(01:06):
them when you die.
Not if when you die.
That's why we have to have theseconversations now and why this
is one of the most essentialmoney talks we're gonna have on
this show.
So we're gonna jump right outthe gate with some definitions
that you'll commonly hear withestate planning.
So don't be alarmed by those.
I wanna make sure to get thoseoutta the way so you know what
we're talking about.
As we're throwing thesedifferent terms around, and once
we get through those, we'regonna dive right into some
(01:27):
actionable takeaways and somethings that you can do right
away so that you can take thoseideas and apply'em to your
financial situation veryquickly.
I don't have a Skyler story timefor you today, so let's keep it
going and keep it moving to getinto today's interview.
Today's Money Buddy is JoeClark.
Joe is a CFP and former adjunctprofessor at Purdue University
and the managing partner of atrust services company, the
(01:49):
Financial Enhancement GroupTrust Services.
Over the past 37 years, Joe hasassisted more than 2,500 people
navigating their financialjourney.
Joe has been married to his wifefor 36 years.
He has two daughters, twograndchildren, and a rescue
hound dog named Rupert.
He's a avid golfer and a scubadiver.
But today he is here to help ustalk about estate planning.
So the money talking points forthis week's episode are one, how
(02:12):
can you get started with estateplanning?
Two, what are some of thedocuments and terms that you
need to be aware of with estateplanning?
And three, how can you bring upestate planning to your older
family members?
And that's gonna be a fun one totalk about.
So make sure to stay tuned forthat third money talking point,
but with those money talkingpoints in mind, let's get
talking and welcome Joe to theshow.
Joe Clark (02:31):
Good morning, Skylar.
Good morning, everybody.
Happy to be here.
Skyler (02:35):
Yeah.
I'm excited for thisconversation because this is not
one that you're gonna hear onmost podcasts Talking to young
adults.
You're not gonna hear him talkabout estate planning.
it's a terrifying word becausewhat does that mean?
It means we're all going to dieand we have to have a plan for
it, or else there's gonna be aplan in place that the state
puts in place for you.
I've been learning a lot in theCFP education world.
this is fresh on my mind, so I'mexcited to teach it to everybody
(02:58):
else as well.
let's start out with just somebasics of estate planning to
help people understand what itis.
what is estate planning?
How do you define it?
Joe Clark (03:06):
Good question, Skylar.
Let's redefine it.
first of all, it's not justabout when you die.
that is probably one of thebiggest mistakes that.
people make in real life andwhere your audience, has two
concerns likely.
Number one, I commend you forbeing on the show.
the majority of people aren'tthat worried about their money,
(03:28):
let alone listening to this
Skyler (03:30):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (03:31):
I've been known as one of the few people who can
make tax planning exciting.
hopefully I can do that for youtoday in what I call legacy
planning, not estate planning.
understand estate planning isabout others.
That's why you think it's aboutdeath, Skylar.
Skyler (03:45):
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (03:47):
fees, and the legal transfer of assets.
What I like to teach in my firmis understanding that it's
legacy planning that is aboutfinancial dignity and your
reputation.
Skyler (03:57):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (03:57):
so if you wanna look at it from estate planning that
it's fees, expenses, and thatlegal transfer of assets is what
you're trying to accomplish.
Skyler (04:07):
Yeah, I like that there's a little bit more to it
than just what happens to yourmoney at death.
There's some opportunity, Ithink, especially if you get
started on it earlier, there'sopportunity to save on those
fees and taxes.
You could have giftingstrategies as a part of it.
There's a little bit more.
That goes into it than just awill per se, which is our next
definition of what is a will,like what is this document that
everyone needs to have?
Joe Clark (04:28):
So a will hopefully for the younger generation is
not gonna be an issue for theolder generation.
It's very much an issue.
people tend to believe wills arethis very powerful document.
in truth, they're one of theweakest documents you will ever
have.
Skyler (04:44):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (04:45):
you're gonna tell people that they either have a
will or don't have a will.
you either die test state,meaning
Skyler (04:51):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (04:51):
your own will or you die in test state, meaning you
have the one the state providesfor you.
I'm married, I have two adultdaughters and grandchildren.
if I didn't have a will, thestate of Indiana would take
everything and this is key,
Skyler (05:05):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:06):
everything that's in my name alone and give half to
my wife and a quarter to each ofmy two daughters.
Skyler (05:14):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:14):
That may not be what you want, but it never actually
happens for most Americans andsee the number one challenge in
estate planning and legacyplanning.
understanding this technicalterm called funding.
Skyler (05:30):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:31):
back when I was 21 years old, starting in the
industry, my granny, said thatshe wanted everything to go to
my dad and my uncle.
I saw the title to her mobilehome that she had purchased.
It was all of the resources thatshe had, and the title was in
her name and my uncle's name.
(05:51):
Jointly,
Skyler (05:52):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (05:53):
And I said, granny, that's not what you said you
wanted.
And she replied to me, the lastliving person allowed to do so,
Joey, it's in the will.
And I said, the will doesn'tmatter.
It
Skyler (06:07):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:08):
to the will.
And so for years I had, andpeople laugh, but I had a will
that gave my mom the EiffelTower, my dad, the Cubs, and my
brother the Bears.
Merely proving you cannot giveaway what you do not own.
Skyler (06:22):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:22):
So that will is a legal document, number one, if
you use a will, you're gonna gothrough a process called
probate.
Skyler (06:30):
Yep.
Joe Clark (06:31):
wanna wind up in probate It's expensive, it's
timely, and it's simply notnecessary.
The will by definition.
Says the things that are only inmy name, so not my house, which
is owned with my wife and I,it's actually in our trust, not
my Jeep, which is owned in bothof our names.
And now is in my trust.
it's not my 401k, it's notanything that has a beneficiary
Skyler (06:54):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:55):
It would be anything that was solely Joe's,
Skyler (06:58):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (06:58):
Barbara's.
Skyler (07:00):
Yeah.
That's such a good picture topaint because I think people
don't quite realize that.
And you mentioned a key thingwe're gonna talk about later is
beneficiaries.
Or joint ownership.
That's something you have toknow about when it comes to
estate planning or just planningwho gets the money or the asset
after you die and you started totease into probate.
And like you mentioned, it's theprocess where they figure out
(07:20):
what's gonna happen with thewill and they kind of work
through the will and process it.
Joe Clark (07:24):
if you're a young individual and you're married,
the majority of what you have isgoing to be held jointly between
you and your spouse.
If you're single and you die,your family, if you have any
assets, will wind up in probate.
But what I find is most peoplethat are under 30, majority of
their assets, if they have any,are life insurances.
(07:46):
4 0 1 Ks and IRAs.
Skyler (07:48):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (07:49):
Right, or if they have a house, they're usually
married in its own jointly.
Skyler (07:53):
Yep.
Joe Clark (07:53):
so if you fall into that normal category, remember
if you have a beneficiarydesignation, it's not going
through your will.
Thus, it's not going throughprobate.
Skyler (08:03):
And then one of the things people say, you have to
have a will.
You need to make sure to have awill.
It's terrible to die without awill, and it kind of sounds like
it's not a super great processto die with a will.
Like there's better ways to goabout it, but why is it so bad
if you don't have one?
Joe Clark (08:16):
so I will tell you I have a will.
It's called a poor, not POOR.
It's A-P-O-U-R will, and itessentially says if anything
happens where something didn'tget to my trust,
Skyler (08:31):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (08:31):
put it in my trust.
I want my trust to dictate wheremy assets go, but I'm 58.
I've done this for a long time.
I've built a company, so myassets are a little more complex
than probably the majority ofyour listeners.
Skyler (08:48):
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (08:48):
you're okay as long as things are owned jointly or
you have a beneficiarydesignation and still having a
basic will that says, anything Imissed, please make sure mom and
dad get it, or my wife gets it,or the Humane Society gets it,
depending on what your wishesare.
Skyler (09:05):
Yeah, it sounds like you're just trying to simplify
it down so that there's aslittle as possible that that
will has to control.
And if there is stuff that thewill needs to control, it has a
very direct path to the itemthat you want to control, like a
trust or things like that.
And you mentioned beneficiarydesignations, and I think these
are a huge deal.
My wife and I.
We were actually talking acouple months ago, we were like,
maybe we should, we need to geta will in place, right?
you hear ads for it all thetime.
(09:27):
Pay for a will service.
Like there's these, easy onlineones.
And we were thinking about it.
We're like, well, hang on.
We don't have a bunch of complexassets.
most of the listeners, includingme, have a very simple, net
worth, It's very simple.
And we were like, hang on.
Could we get away with justhaving.
Beneficiary designations on allof our accounts because mainly
it's just cash in differentaccounts or investments but it's
(09:47):
just different bank accounts,like a 401k or an IRA.
Is designating beneficiaries onthose enough, or is there maybe
still another step that you needto take to make sure you're
really covered or is just sayingpayable on death?
Is that good?
Joe Clark (09:59):
Es, especially at your age, Skylar.
the beneficiary designationswork fine.
And remember, when you get into,you use the word simple and
complex.
A lot of times people put estateplanning in an asset size.
If you've
Skyler (10:14):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (10:15):
million dollars, you need to do this.
It really is understanding thecomplexity of the asset you own.
Skyler (10:21):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (10:22):
a billion dollar life insurance policy and you only
had one beneficiary and youweren't trying to control the
distributions, you don't evenneed a trust.
You don't even really need a
Skyler (10:32):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (10:33):
because that asset won't get there.
You could have a hundredthousand dollars in different
farm brown plots, the startingof your business, which requires
some more complex thoughtprocess.
Skyler (10:43):
If it's just you have this really large bank account.
And you have four people thatyou wanna split it up evenly.
You make that beneficiarydesignation 25%, and that's
probably all you need to do.
It can be pretty simple.
Joe Clark (10:55):
pay attention to what Skylar just said, ladies and
gentlemen, because it'scritical.
people tend to go to the bankand try to add a name, That's
not what you wanna
Skyler (11:04):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (11:05):
You're not trying to add a name.
trying to add what's called aTOD or a POD, depending on the
state and the bank for transferon death or payable on death.
Those are essentiallybeneficiary designations That
gives you no ownership.
Skyler (11:21):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (11:22):
to the bank, if grandpa dies, here's who gets
the money.
It keeps it out of probate.
Doesn't make a gift to you
Skyler (11:30):
Yep.
Joe Clark (11:31):
It's
Skyler (11:31):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (11:31):
inheriting and that is very critical.
We see commonly.
People have four kids.
they go to a bank and they addone of the kids on the account
so that it's now joint owned.
Well, first of all, from the IRSperspective, that's a gift.
Skyler (11:46):
Yep.
Joe Clark (11:46):
And second, the presumption is that when
Grandpapa dies, that one siblingis gonna divide it up with the
other three.
Well, even if they are willingto do that, many times it
creates a tax problem.
So don't go that
Skyler (11:59):
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah.
More gifts, more transfers ininstead of the proper just here
it is on death legally viabeneficiary designation.
It can really get complicated ifyou just start adding people to
everything.
Especially if you had multiplekids, like you had one to the
house, you had one two year bankaccount.
Like that just creates such amess that.
It is so much easier.
Just make sure you're usingbeneficiary designations, but I
(12:21):
wanna talk about some key thingsthat people need to know with
estate planning, because a lotof people say you need to name
guardians if you have kids, andthat's a key piece of estate
planning or using a will.
What are some other key thingsthat people need to know that
they can get in place quickly?
Joe Clark (12:36):
We will start with the kids.
you can control where the moneygoes.
You can't control where thechildren go.
And
Skyler (12:41):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (12:42):
you need to understand that, Barb and I had
a document that said ifsomething happened to the two of
us that my brother got mydaughters
Skyler (12:51):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (12:52):
mean that one of the four grandparents wouldn't have
shown up and said, I want thekids,
Skyler (12:56):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (12:56):
Only the judge will be able to declare guardianship,
but they generally will rely onthat form.
Skyler (13:03):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:03):
control is who's in charge of the money.
You're gonna want a healthcaredirective,
Skyler (13:08):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (13:09):
of what age you are.
a living will, to say, Hey,here's how I want to be treated
if I happen to be on lifesupport.
If I'm in an accident.
Most of your listeners, at yourage, you're more likely to die
of an accident than you are of aheart attack
Skyler (13:21):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:22):
like that.
So make sure it says, Hey, Idon't want life support any
longer than I need it.
Make sure you've named theperson who has that power,
especially if you're single,
Skyler (13:32):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:32):
the authority to make that direction.
and it needs to be on a thumbdrive that maybe you keep in
your car or somewhere on yourphone where you can
Skyler (13:41):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:41):
to people.
You'd be amazed the number oftimes people show up at the
hospital, I've got a document,but it's back at home, or it's
in the safety deposit
Skyler (13:49):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (13:49):
You want to have it accessible to some degree.
Power of attorney is critical.
very similar to a will.
A lot of people think power ofattorney documents are more
powerful than they really are.
Skylar can give me a power ofattorney document, which extends
his authority to me to sign myname, it doesn't replace his
(14:10):
authority to sign his name.
Skyler (14:12):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (14:12):
And one of the challenges I see with older
people is they presume a powerof attorney takes away Skylar's
power.
if he's incapacitated.
having dementia issues orcognitive impairment he can no
longer sign his name, and thebank knows that is not at all
what happens.
Skyler
Skyler (14:30):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (14:30):
sign his name.
It's just I also have theauthority to act on his behalf.
But those are the documents thatyou really need on top of the
will.
Skyler (14:38):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and I'm hearing, backupplans as a way for that.
Like if there is a situationwhere, like you said, I still
have the right, but maybe Idon't have the capacity to
exercise that Right.
Then the power of attorney can,potentially come in and help out
with that.
I've heard this, horror storyhonestly, but the bank safety
deposit box held all thedocuments that they needed to.
it was just created this messycircle that they couldn't get
(15:00):
into it because the person died,but they needed the documents
out of it because the persondied.
So that's something to be awareof that could really throw off
and cause major delays in theprocess.
But you've mentioned quite a fewthings that young listeners
maybe don't need this wholeentire massive trust because
things are simple.
you've mentioned quite a fewthings like power of attorney,
we've knocked out some of those.
What is at stake if people don'tset these things up?
(15:23):
let's say they forget about thebeneficiary part.
What if you don't havebeneficiaries on your accounts?
Joe Clark (15:27):
There should be nobody allowed to walk planet
Earth that is in the financialservices industry that doesn't
name a beneficiary.
you always want to begin withthe end in mind.
Skyler (15:37):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (15:38):
So, yes, you will die.
That will happen.
But more likely than dying isyou will live.
you always wanna look at lifelike a Cheesecake Factory menu.
There's 218 options on thatmenu, right?
Skyler (15:55):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (15:55):
beautiful, beautiful gig, and you walk in and see
this menu, and if you knowanything about food, you're just
overwhelmed.
it is phenomenal and everythingis good
Skyler (16:05):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:05):
the waiter walks over and you have to make a decision,
right?
Skyler (16:09):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (16:10):
lot of times people don't understand why rich people
are frustrated.
I will tell you, it's becausetheir menu is so thick, they
have
Skyler (16:17):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:18):
and they've gotta limit, eliminate those down even
more so than most people to beable to get to the choices that
have to be made.
'cause at the end of the day,you have to make a decision.
Skyler (16:28):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:28):
wanna begin with the end of mind.
You wanna understand why you'regoing through that accumulation
phase.
What you're doing is making yourmenu of choices in the future
bigger.
Skyler (16:37):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:37):
the hardest work by saying no to things you could
have today.
Barb and I went to Gatlinburg,not Disney, We live in Indiana.
we said no to bigger cars.
We said no to nicer houses sothat we would have more in the
future.
Those are tough decisions.
What
Skyler (16:53):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (16:53):
money is a little bit easier, but you're gonna go
through these phases and as youdo, things need to change.
When you're younger, make surethat assets are jointly owned.
sure everything has abeneficiary designation.
if I had to choose and youdon't,'cause most attorneys will
do these as a bundle, but if Ihad to choose at 30 years old
(17:13):
between having a will and havingmy healthcare representative.
Am I living
Skyler (17:19):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (17:19):
then I would take the, the, I would take the two
ladder.
Skyler (17:22):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (17:22):
you appoint who you want to be in charge of saying
pull the plug or don't pull theplug, depending on your state,
Skyler (17:29):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (17:30):
how you want to be treated.
If you're capable of thinkingfor yourself.
Skyler (17:34):
Yeah, that's really interesting.
And I think so many people, canmiss the mark because the
overall picture of a will and atrust gets talked about a lot
more.
But there's a lot more piecesyou can do, like you said, when
you're living, if you're in yourtwenties.
You're more likely to be in acar accident because you're
driving more than a retiree Sothere's a lot of things you can
do now that are smaller andsimpler, but just aren't talked
(17:55):
about as much.
So thank you for bringing thoseup.
Joe Clark (17:58):
welcome.
I've been, I've been in thisindustry for 37 years, longer
than most of you have beenalive, when I say you're going
to die, but you're more likelyto live,
Skyler (18:09):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (18:09):
people, I mean, obviously we all die, but more
of us will have cognitive,decline or cognitive impairment.
That's the one with thediagnosis as we age, simply
because we're living longer.
And you
Skyler (18:22):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (18:22):
make sure that your tools or documents evolve as you
evolve.
As that cheesecake factory menugets bigger as your choices that
you can make in gets larger.
You wanna make sure you're in asituation to have your documents
match those decisions.
Skyler (18:39):
Yeah, and making sure that the people Who are a part
of this plan, know about it.
That's something that just cameto my mind You mentioned the
power of attorney or the personwho can make the decision to
pull the plug, I'm glad we wereable to go through so many terms
today because I know I'm in thefinance space, I know there's a
lot of people listening that,like you said, at least you're
in a place where you'relistening to a money podcast,
you're so much ahead.
(18:59):
Of everybody else around youbecause they just frankly don't
care about this sort of stuff.
But just listening to this getsthose gears turning in your
head, and hopefully you'llpotentially be like me and my
wife, where you're like, Hey,let's sit down and talk about
it.
it doesn't need to be ascomplicated as the whole entire
process.
Let's make sure and go throughall our accounts and make sure
beneficiaries are designated.
And that could be enough, butjust listening to this at least
(19:21):
get your gears turning and getyou moving in the right
direction.
So this has been a fantasticconversation.
That's really helped.
One, open my eyes to it doesn'thave to all just be a will.
Like there's a lot of differentthings to consider, but also
there's things that are moreimportant, like healthcare
directives and power ofattorneys that can be set up
while you're living.
Joe, this has been fantastic.
It's been really educational forme, so I'm sure everyone
(19:41):
listening.
Is also taking a bunch away.
I got two final questions foryou here.
The first one will be, how canpeople learn more or contact
you?
But then the last one, to giveyou a second to think about it,
is what's one thing you wish youknew about estate planning in
your twenties?
Joe Clark (19:54):
Well, thank you Kellar and I've enjoyed being
here take what I said seriously.
I commend
Skyler (19:58):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (19:59):
taking the time to learn this.
Skyler (20:01):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (20:02):
some of you are taking care of yourselves.
Some of you probably have aloved one, like a grandparent
that you care about.
so it, it really, it really doesmatter.
can always find out more aboutus at your life after work.com.
Um, the, and, and, and I willprobably send you right back to
Skyler.
(20:22):
if you listen to his program,support is program to the best
of your ability.
Skyler (20:27):
Well, thank you.
Joe Clark (20:28):
that I wish I knew, I'm a little bit different,
Skylar in most people, I startedwhen I was 21 years old.
Skyler (20:35):
So you knew this in your twenties.
Joe Clark (20:36):
I, I love to learn and, it didn't take me long to
recognize.
with granny's estate, littlepeople understood about
Skyler (20:47):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (20:48):
about making sure that the way your asset was
owned matched the way that youwanted your asset to go at the
end.
that was very helpful to me.
You said another key thing.
You know, I will tell you withthe estate the size that I have
today, it's a whole lot easierto think about legacy and estate
planning.
Skyler (21:05):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (21:05):
and sold houses, as I built businesses, understanding
what an S Corp and a C Corp and
Skyler (21:11):
Mm-hmm.
Joe Clark (21:11):
it becomes simpler when it applies in your own
life.
so do baby steps if you have to.
You don't have to get this allat one time.
But my two favorite teachers ofhabits, BJ Fogs, wrote a book
called Tiny Habits.
He was also a professor to a guynamed James Clear that wrote
Atomic Habits
Skyler (21:31):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (21:31):
never forget James Clear's greatest quotation
success is never dependent uponone thing, but failure
Skyler (21:38):
Hmm.
Joe Clark (21:39):
be right.
It's no good to save andaccumulate money to have a
beautiful relationship with yourspouse.
and you're saving andaccumulating money to screw it
up with a bad beneficiarydesignation
Skyler (21:51):
Yeah.
Joe Clark (21:52):
or to not have something else planned and at
all to be for, not, makes nosense to me.
Always begin with the end inmind.
There are a lot of things thatcan mess it up.
Just keep doing the rightthings.
Baby steps,
Skyler (22:04):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Joe Clark (22:05):
got.
So.
Skyler (22:06):
Yes.
I love that and I love don't,don't put in some magic
provision about your C corp thatyou plan to grow in 20 years,
because frankly, you don't needthat in all of your estate
planning.
Keep it simple and do the nextright thing and you're gonna be
good.
I love that because youmentioned the one bad thing can
screw it up.
It can leave such a stain if youhave a former spouse as your
beneficiary on something and noone gets any of the money.
(22:29):
And the former spouse keeps itlike how?
that messes it all up.
So go one step at a time andmake sure you're making the next
right step.
But Joe, this has been afantastic conversation about a
topic that not a lot of peoplethink about.
thank you so much for coming on.
Joe Clark (22:41):
You are very welcome.
Good to be here.
Have a great day.
Speaker (22:53):
Thank you so much to Joe Clark for coming on the
episode today.
I know that was a great one andI hope you all enjoyed it as
well.
But let's start with the moneytalking points here.
The first one, how can you getstarted with estate planning?
Well, you can start simple.
Take easy little baby steps.
You don't have to fret so muchabout trying to do it all at
once.
This is something that wouldscare my wife and I away from
doing some estate planning.
(23:14):
You just need to figure out whatthe next step is and do that one
simple thing.
It's likely going to be thatyour first step is beneficiary
designations.
And to be honest, like me and mywife, you might not need to go
past that.
That might be all that you needto do right now in terms of
estate planning, you might notneed to set up a whole trust or
that entire kit and caboodle andeverything that includes.
(23:35):
You may just be able to startwith that one document where you
write down all thebeneficiaries, and then of
course, make sure you actuallylog into your accounts and
update the beneficiaries,because just writing'em down on
a piece of paper.
Won't be good enough to actuallyupdate them online, but this is
what my wife and I did.
Here's the story about exactlywhat we did.
I started out by writing out aGoogle Doc with all the
different accounts that we have,all the different organizations
(23:58):
that they're with, the differentinstitutions, the name of the
account, what type of account itwas, and then the phone number
for that company.
And then I wrote PrimaryBeneficiary, secondary
Beneficiary.
And then under each one I wentone by one and logged into that
account, found the beneficiarydesignation online, and wrote it
on that document.
Now, this was very easy.
(24:18):
I was able to do it all at once,but I didn't even have to.
This is something you could doover a couple weeks.
You don't really have to do thisall at once.
And guess what?
I discovered an account that wasset up that did not have a
beneficiary designated huge facepalm type of moment.
I'm on this podcast trying totell you all how to do better
with your money.
And even I make little mistakeslike this, like not designating
(24:40):
a beneficiary, but that's whyit's so key to check these sort
of things and make sure to.
Know that it is set up.
I was shocked that I forgotthis.
How could I forget this?
But thankfully, I went throughcombed through all our
beneficiaries.
Fix that one.
And I did it one step at a time,one account at a time.
And then my wife and I, werealized our net worth isn't
much more complicated than that.
(25:00):
So we don't need to do anythingmore than that.
And you may not need to either.
You might just have a 401ksomewhere or an IRA somewhere.
And maybe a savings account hereor there, and you just need to
go through all of those andcheck who's the payable on death
or transferable on death or thebeneficiary that's designated on
that account.
And that might be all that youneed to do.
So people will often, in theestate planning world, use a
(25:22):
blanket statement that a will isthe main thing that you need to
get.
They'll just preach andadvertise that you need to sign
up for their will service orcreate a will online.
But frankly, a will may not besomething you need.
And that's because there's otherdocuments that are more
important and there's otherthings that you can do to avoid
even needing a will, likebeneficiary designations.
But there are other documentsthat are much more important,
and let's talk about that in thenext money talking point.
(25:44):
The next money talking point iswhat are some of the documents
and terms that you need to beaware of with estate planning?
Well, we did identify a lot ofthese right in the very
beginning of the episode.
And the will is something thatwe will all hear about.
Everyone says you need to get awill, right?
But I like to say that a willwill go through probate, and
that's something we wanna avoid.
We need to think aboutbeneficiaries payable on death,
(26:06):
transferable on death, like Ijust talked about in the last
money talking point.
That might be all you need.
It's the first document that youwanna make sure you have set up
on every single account.
This is more important than awill because you can avoid
probate with a little TLC, whichstands for trusts.
Laws and contracts.
A beneficiary designation is alegal way to make sure that your
money passes onto someone else.
(26:28):
Without the court having tointervene or anything like that,
the beneficiary designation willsend the money to the correct
person.
Now, what is a trust?
A trust is another term you canhear when it comes to estate
planning, and this is a wholeentire account structure and a
document that can be set up tomanage your assets.
I'm not gonna cover these in alot of detail right now because
I think it's a little beyond thescope of what I want to talk
(26:49):
about with simple estates andsome simple estate planning.
But a trust is pretty much anentire account structure where
you can write a document todetermine how the money is to be
distributed, and that's therules they have to follow.
It's a pretty neat tool, butwe're not gonna talk about it in
much more detail today.
A guardian.
Well, if you have children, thisis the number one most important
planning opportunity that liesbefore you.
(27:09):
If you're listening to this andyou have a children from age
zero to however old they areuntil they need to take care of
themselves.
If there's at any point whereyou have guardianship over
somebody.
You need to make sure there'spaperwork in place that if you
were to die, someone else isdesignated the guardian.
And stop whatever you're doingin your financial life, whatever
(27:30):
project you're working on, andmake this your very next step.
You absolutely need to set upthis document so that it can
establish your wishes for whereyour children go when you die.
Now, power of attorney, this isanother thing that you'll hear
thrown around when it comes toestate planning.
And like Joe mentioned in theepisode, you don't lose your
rights.
You're not signing away yourrights or your ability to
(27:50):
exercise your rights.
You're just giving somebody elsethe right.
Should you be unable to exerciseyour rights on your own?
Set this up now while you're ina good condition.
And that way, if you need tohave things taken care of, this
is already in place.
Someone else can have the legalrights to take care of it.
Should you be disabled.
There's four different types ofpowers of attorney.
There's a general one, a limitedone, a durable one, and a
(28:11):
springing.
Each one has its own use case,and you should have one set up
so that someone can continue towork out your financial or legal
manners should you be becomeincapacitated.
That's what a power of attorneyis for.
Now, another term you'll hearthrown around is a medical
directive, and you don't wannaleave it up to someone at random
to decide your medical outcome.
Decide it for yourself now whileyou're in a good state of mind
to be able to do so.
(28:32):
Do you want someone to pull theplug?
As people always jokingly say,they're like, if I'm not in good
condition, just pull the plug.
Are you serious about that?
Because you should write it downand then people know your
directive medically, and peopledon't have to guess or keep you
going longer than maybe you wantto.
And this goes with all otherdecisions.
Make them before you have tomake the decision.
(28:53):
Make it when you have theopportunity to make the
decision.
When you're in a good state ofmind with all of these things
here, whether it's setting upbeneficiaries.
Writing a will, creating atrust, designating guardians,
designating a power of attorney,and writing your medical
directives.
Do them all.
While you're in a good mindset,and I know I say take the next
baby step, so let's talk aboutwhat some of those baby steps
(29:14):
could be.
Well, if you're a parent, yourfirst step needs to be
guardianship, and then foreverybody else, and after that's
done, you need to make surebeneficiary designations are set
up on your account.
And then consider power ofattorneys and then consider
medical directives.
And I think you could put thoselast two in potentially either
order.
But those are kind of the steps.
You should go in one step at atime to make sure that you have
(29:37):
everything in place while you'rein a good state of mind right
now.
And now those last three of aguardian power of attorney and
medical directive are moreimportant than a will 100%.
And a beneficiary designation isalso just as much, if not way
more important than a willbecause it's a way to avoid it.
It's a way to make it simplerand easier.
I wish a beneficiary designationwas a legal requirement that
(29:58):
financial institutions had tomake sure we're on every single
account.
But now that you've learned allabout estate planning in this
episode and you're thinking,wow, I hope my family has this
stuff set up because I don'tneed to worry about it now,
newsflash, you do need to worryabout it now.
That's why you're listening tothis episode.
So make sure your estateplanning's in order.
But then how can you bring it upto older members of your family
to make sure their affairs arein order?
(30:18):
That's the third money talkingpoint.
How can you bring up estateplanning to older members of
your family?
Well, don't be rude about it.
Don't be aggressive and don'ttry to fix their estate plan.
Don't come into it saying, oh, Ithink your estate plan's wrong.
Let's do something different.
Your grandparents or parents maylet you go ahead and read their
will.
I've done this with my grandmabefore because when I was
learning about.
Wills and estate planning.
(30:39):
I said, Hey, how do theseactually look?
Can I just read yours realquick?
It'll help you understand howthings are going to work, and I
think it could be beneficial forthe entire family to have a
meeting about how is the estategonna be distributed, when and
if, and how soon should a familymember pass away?
But we all need to be willing tohave the discussion and of
course.
Don't come at it from a point ofwanting to learn what you're
(31:01):
going to get or trying to changewhat you're going to get.
If you have wealth in yourfamily, that's just gonna make
people upset and make peoplekind of offput.
Having this conversation.
If your whole goal is to justcome in and try to get more
money, come at it withquestions.
Ask questions about how theirestate plan was set up, who did
they talk to, how did they setit up?
How did the money getdistributed, how does it get
split up?
(31:21):
Things like that.
How do they decide about usingthe certain kind of trust that
they might have used?
Mention that you heard aboutGuardians on this podcast, and
ask how they set those up.
Same goes for the medical powerof attorney or a general power
of attorney.
Ask who those people are.
It's very likely that there wasan attorney involved in creating
these estate planning documentsfor your parents or
grandparents.
Know who that person is.
(31:41):
Make sure you have theirbusiness card or the company
that they work for so you knowwho to call when the time comes
that this estate plan needs tobe put into action.
That is, I think, one of themost key things because this
person likely has a copy of theestate plan and they can help
you figure out how to get thingsmoving in the right direction,
get things submitted to theright places.
But overall, just don't bring upthis conversation from a place
(32:02):
of wanting to change how muchmoney you're gonna get or trying
to get more money, or trying tomake it so someone else gets
less money.
That's just not helpful and it'sgonna ruin relationships, but
you need to come at this from apoint of asking questions about
these different things that youlearned about and say, how did
you set that up?
Especially when it comes tothose things, maybe beyond a
will that this might be yourfirst time hearing about it.
(32:22):
Ask your family members, Hey,how do you have this set up?
How did you set that up?
Who did you talk to to getsomething like this set up?
Because there's a lot ofdifferent things that do go into
a full entire estate plan, butjust remember, it doesn't have
to be that complicated.
If you're young and you have asimple net worth and nothing's
too complicated yet, just startwith beneficiary designations
and you're gonna be just fineand you can sleep at night.
(32:44):
Knowing your money's gonna gowhere you want to, should
anything happen to you and youunfortunately die.
But that doesn't for the threemoney talking points today, what
a great episode that was aboutsomething that is so often
overlooked.
It does not have to becomplicated.
I wanna leave you with this.
Estate planning doesn't have tobe overwhelming or something
that you do all at once.
For my wife and I, we startedwith that simple Google doc that
(33:06):
I mentioned, listing out ouraccounts and checking on each
beneficiaries, and that's it.
One step at a time, and that maybe.
All that you need to do.
You may not necessarily need awill or a trust right now, but
beneficiary designations, powersof attorney and medical
directives can be way moreimportant to get in place early.
And if you're ready to go alittle bit further, start asking
around about how other peoplehave it set up or start asking
(33:28):
some simple questions and havesome fun money.
Talks about this.
I hope you were able to learn alot about estate planning today,
and I hope you shared thisepisode with a friend and go and
have a money talk.
If you have any questions aboutestate planning, please send
them my way and I'd be happy toanswer them for you and talk
about'em on the show.
If you enjoyed this episode,please leave a review wherever
you listen to podcasts.
And thank you for listening totoday's episode.
(33:49):
The best way to stay up to dateand connected to All Things
Money Talk is to subscribe tothe podcast and sign up for my
email list.
Head over to Money talk.show andsubmit your name and email right
there on the homepage.
You can also use the contactpage on my website to send me
any questions.
If you're looking to get startedwith budgeting, I've partnered
with my budget coach, a platformthat connects your budget
directly with me, your financialcoach, and I'd love to work with
(34:10):
you over there and help you withyour budgeting.
Remember, the link is in theshow notes.
And also remember, the best wayto learn from today's episode is
to go and have a money talkabout today's topic with a
fellow money buddy.
But thank you for listening tothis week's episode of Money
Talk.
I'm your host, Skyler Fleming.
Have a great week.
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