July 10, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of Money Talk, I sit down with Jonathan Blau, the founder and CEO of Fusion Family Wealth, to tackle one of the most overlooked but powerful financial habits: ignoring the news. We dig into why obsessing over current events can derail your financial plan, how emotions sneak into our money decisions, and what it actually takes to build a plan that can weather the emotional rollercoaster of investing. Jonathan brings a ton of behavioral insight, and we share practical steps you can take to avoid FOMO, build a resilient plan, and make better decisions with less stress. If you’ve ever felt anxious because of a headline or tempted to time the market, this episode is for you.
💰 This Week’s Money Talking Points
- What value does ignoring current events bring you?
- When was the last time you felt emotion around a financial decision?
- How can you build a plan that will withstand the emotional rollercoaster?
📌 Resources & Mentions:
Learn more about Jonathan Blau’s firm: https://www.fusionfamilywealth.com/
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Schedule a free Money Talk at https://moneytalk.show/chat
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"Upbeat Forever" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome Money Buddies to thisweek's episode of Money Talk.
(00:03):
This week we're talking aboutemotions, ignoring the news and
sticking to the plan.
I'm your host, Skyler Fleming,and let's get talking.
I am very excited for thisinterview today.
(00:23):
This is something that I havethought about for years.
Ignore the news.
I have not watched a newsbroadcast since the pandemic,
and even quite a bit beforethen.
I hardly watched.
I am all the better off for itas well.
I don't worry so much.
I'm not bothered by events thathappen that have absolutely no
impact on my day-to-day life.
And I think I'm overall happierfor not having watched the news
(00:46):
in years, much to the chagrin ofmy grandma who thinks I'm
missing out on what's going onaround me.
Frankly, I don't think itmatters.
I can choose to stay up to datewith the things that I want to,
but I don't have to deal withthe drama and sadness and the.
Depression that comes fromwatching the news.
But today we're gonna take theidea and apply it to your
personal finances.
(01:06):
How can you avoid the currentevents and manage the emotions
that come into your life withever changing policies, news,
different guidance and advicefrom all sorts of different
people online?
How can you build a financialplan on a solid foundation
that's going to last?
And I know this one is gonnahelp a lot of you out with
sticking to your plan and notdeviating so much.
Let me know what you learned bysending me a text using the link
(01:27):
in the top of the show notes orleave a comment on Spotify or
YouTube and we can have a greatmoney talk there as well.
But I know this money talk isgonna bring some people into the
light of ignoring the news andignoring current events.
So let's keep this train moving.
I wanna jump in here today witha Skyler story Time.
This one is gonna be about anupdate to the show.
There's some solo episodescoming up very soon and there
(01:49):
are some slight audio issues inthis episode, so I apologize
ahead of time.
But do look forward to thesesolo episodes that are coming
out.
I believe it's about two weeksaway that you'll be hearing a
solo episode about me becoming aCFP.
So make sure you're subscribed,share with Friends, and if
you're interested in becoming aCFP, send me your questions that
you might have, and I very wellcould cover them on the show.
(02:09):
But today's Money Buddy isJonathan Blau.
Jonathan is the founder and CEOof Fusion Family Wealth, a Long
Island based fee only registeredinvestment advisory firm.
His approach focusespredominantly on conditioning
investors to learn to ignorecurrent events, act on their
plan, and never react to themarkets and the media, which is
perfect with what we're gonnatalk about today.
The money talking points todayare, what value does ignoring
(02:33):
current events bring you?
Two.
When was the last time you feltemotion around a financial
decision?
And three, how can you build aplan that will withstand the
emotional rollercoaster withthose money talking points in
mind?
Let's get talking and welcomeJonathan to the show.
Jonathan Blau (02:47):
Thank you, Skyler.
Pleasure to be here
Skyler (02:49):
I'm super excited for this conversation because this
is something that I especiallypreach to all my friends who are
trying to get me to invest inthe latest cryptos or whatever
it may be, right?
Whatever's that hot button item.
We're talking today aboutcurrent events, and frankly, why
you should ignore them.
this is gonna be a funconversation because there is so
much news out there that canpull and tug and make your mind
(03:09):
go in so many differentdirections, make your wallet go
in so many different directions.
Let's kick it off with why weshould have a plan for our
money.
And I know one of the mainthings we're gonna talk about is
so that this current eventsdon't impact it, but why do you
think there's so much value inplanning with our money?
Jonathan Blau (03:24):
So, it's critical, to understand the
importance of a plan.
I'll start off answering it witha reference to, one of my
favorite characters, Yogi Berra.
He said, You better make sureyou know where you're going.
'cause otherwise you might notget there.
Skyler (03:38):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (03:38):
if you have no roadmap, you're not likely to
succeed other than by randomchance or luck.
and I wouldn't want to count onthat for anything in life.
So I always tell investors that,having a plan is never a
guarantee that you'll succeed.
In meeting all your objectives,but the absence of a plan is the
closest thing I've ever seen toa guarantee of failure.
(04:01):
So we have to learn to operaterationally.
Under constant uncertainty.
Skyler (04:06):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (04:06):
having a plan is, here's my short term and long
term goals, objectives.
what is it that I should do inorder to increase the
probability?
of achieving them.
Skyler (04:16):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (04:16):
that plan becomes your benchmark, against which
you measure success or failureperiodically.
instead of what most people inthe investment community do,
they measure their, their, theirsuccess or failure against the
random, irrelevant benchmark,let's call it the performance of
the s and p 500.
You know, it's up 25 and I'monly up 18 or 16 last year.
(04:37):
Because seven companies areaccounting for 70% of the
return.
Skyler (04:41):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (04:42):
They're concentrating.
You're diversified, you'reprudent.
Don't worry about the outcome wecall outcome bias.
Don't let the outcome dictatewhat your input ought to be.
Skyler (04:50):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (04:50):
when you have that plan and your benchmark
then becomes the plan, now youhave a rational benchmark.
Hey, three years out, I embarkedon this plan.
I want it to have X amount ofmoney so I can retire in five
years.
Where am I?
And based on where I am, shouldI make changes?
am I just fine doing what we'redoing?
What are the steps I should,adjust?
You should never change it inresponse to current events.
(05:12):
'cause current events havenothing to do with somebody's
plan.
I always tell people your plan.
Is about, what you're gonna have20 years from now and the 10
years on either side of that.
That's the focal point of theplan.
Whether we have a tariff todayin 2025 or not, has nothing to
do with that.
Skyler (05:28):
Yeah.
you hit the nail right on thehead with the main thing Causing
so much commotion in people'sfinances is will there be a
tariff?
Is there gonna be some sort ofpause around it?
Will there not be a pause?
Is it gonna go up or down?
Like that's the main thing,pulling on everyone's money.
But there's a couple key thingsin there that you talked about
with why a plan is so important.
And I've heard it described in asimilar way, but saying like, if
you're trying to get across thecountry and you did it with like
(05:50):
there was no road signs, right?
Like you can probably get adecent way across the country
just with road signs, not evenwith GPS.
Like if you get more granularand use a GPS map and things
like that.
Jonathan Blau (06:00):
Right.
Skyler (06:00):
path, but trying to, if there was no like highway sign
saying New York, 100 miles,things like that, you would have
no clue where you're going.
So that's the potential of aplan is building that framework
to say, turn right in a couplehundred miles And I think that's
the way I've heard it describedis if you tried to get from Los
Angeles to New York with nosigns or a map you might end up
in Canada or Mexico But that'sthe same sort of thing with your
(06:22):
money.
Jonathan Blau (06:23):
It is true a hundred percent.
You need guideposts and youneed, benchmarks, that instructs
what you need to change or notchange based on, what you've
accomplished toward your shortand long term goals
Skyler (06:33):
Yeah, and I, I love the idea that you said there of that
personal benchmark of havingsomething that is your own goal
set up to help you stay aligned,because like you said, is your
benchmark, just this.
Total market index fund.
Is it the, just the s and p 500who really, who really knows if
you can keep up with that?
if you don't have a specificgoal in mind, you don't know
(06:56):
which way you're going becauseyou don't have your own plan.
Where if you set some sort ofplan that you need to keep,
seven, eight, 9% benchmark,then, you know, is my plan
hitting that.
But another thing here, there'sa couple of different things
that you mentioned aboutcomponents like having your own
benchmark.
Having your own plan as aguidepost, what are some other
components that people need toconsider in their plan?
Jonathan Blau (07:18):
So what they really should consider is a
plan.
A portfolio is not a plan, andthe majority of investors think
a portfolio is a plan.
we need to understand that aplan in order to be effective,
should be date specific anddollar specific.
Skyler (07:33):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (07:34):
by the time I'm 60, how much principle.
Do I need to acquire in order toretire comfortably and stay
comfortably retired?
If I wanna spend x.
If there is no date specific indollar specific goal, you don't
have a plan.
those are the two most importantcomponents.
the other thing I'd say is oneof the most important thing
about a plan is planning on aplan, not going according to
(07:57):
plan.
Skyler (07:57):
Yeah,
Jonathan Blau (07:58):
a plan B, right?
Skyler (07:59):
your assumptions will be wrong.
Jonathan Blau (08:00):
Yeah.
and so you have to accept thatit's all based on probabilities.
I'll share with you, somethingthat I think's relevant to this,
Barry Riol has his definition ofinvesting because I recently
read his book and I love it.
It's the art of using imperfectinformation.
I.
To make probabilisticassessments about an inherently
unknowable future.
(08:21):
that's investing.
That's also planning.
Skyler (08:23):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (08:24):
so when you recognize the three most
important words, as he says ininvesting are, I don't know.
Skyler (08:30):
Yeah.
Or it depends.
Jonathan Blau (08:32):
How high is it gonna
Skyler (08:33):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (08:33):
Neither do these clowns on CNBC with the fancy
titles.
they don't have any more factsabout the future than you or I
my mentor, Nick Murray, alwaysused to say the defining
characteristics about the futureis there are no facts about it.
Skyler (08:45):
I love that.
we're just guessing pretty muchif you get down to the nitty
gritty, and there can be a lotof education that goes into it
to make an informed guess,Ultimately, especially right
now, things are changing somuch.
There could be some new tariff,there could be some new policy
that comes out.
There could be changes tolegislation that makes your,
your whole plan that you areplanning for 20, 30 years need
to change because of a differentopportunity.
(09:07):
if you try to stay caught upwith everything in the moment
that it happens, that justcauses your brain to go haywire.
Why should we ignore the newsand current events around
financial stuff that's flying atus?
Jonathan Blau (09:19):
so in short, there's a bunch of reasons.
One is, it's not really news.
it's, as I say, it's resultsoriented
Skyler (09:26):
entertainment.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (09:28):
as journalism.
it's actually worse thanentertainment.
What it is, in the media,whether it's financial or
otherwise, the term that'salways been used in the
advertising industry, if itbleeds, it leads,
Skyler (09:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (09:37):
attack or a plane crash first.
our goal is not to educate youabout the world or the financial
world of
Skyler (09:43):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (09:44):
Our goal is to maximize clicks.
So we maximize ad revenues andwe collude with our partners,
'cause they also want action.
They want you to.
Be call to action so they cansell you their hedge products
and all their alternativeproduct and all the things that
you might wanna buy,
Skyler (09:59):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (10:00):
in response to the fears that they're creating
for you.
So that's one of the reasons youdon't wanna listen to it,
because they're not telling youthings to help you.
Skyler (10:08):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (10:08):
things to benefit themselves actually at your
expense.
The other reason not to listento the news, and I'll give you
this.
in a nice little brief historylesson for my lifetime.
I'm born in 1967, right beforethe Vietnam War.
During the Vietnam War.
and the s and p was about 60,give or take.
Skyler (10:25):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (10:25):
and so you had the Vietnam War in 1962.
You had the Cuban Missile Crisiswhere our country could be
obliterated 90 miles off theshores of Miami by Russia via
Cuba.
And then you had the seventies,arguably the worst.
Economic decade in our lifetime,modern history, where
unemployment, inflation and,interest rates were all
approaching 20%.
The worst energy crisis in 1973, 4 in history, the market
(10:49):
declined 50% in 73.
Four was the first of three.
In my lifetime.
Skyler (10:54):
Wow.
Jonathan Blau (10:55):
Now you have 1987.
The worst single day collapse inthe market in history still
holds the record.
And then 1990, the worst realestate crisis, and you could
keep going.
The, the, the,
Skyler (11:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:06):
bubble down 50% followed six years later with
the, credit crisis
Skyler (11:11):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:12):
So the market's down 50.
50 and 63 times in my short 58years.
And along those, with thosethree Hals or more, we also had
a total of, let's say, I don'tknow, 13 bear markets, nine or
so recessions.
And also we had all thosecurrent events, terrorist
attacks, everything.
Skyler (11:30):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:31):
the market go from 60 to 6,000.
It's gone up a hundred times.
A million is a hundred million.
Skyler (11:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:37):
did one have to do?
As an investor in the s and p500 or some similarly
diversified portfolio of great
Skyler (11:45):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:46):
in order to have that happen
Skyler (11:48):
Yeah, you had to ignore all that.
'cause if you pulled it outbecause it was going down, you
missed out on all of that climb.
Jonathan Blau (11:53):
what we had to do as investors to turn our money,
up a hundred times during thatperiod I just described of
recessions and halvings andeverything else that happened,
Republicans and Democrats, youname it.
Skyler (12:04):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (12:04):
rates as low as zeros, high as 20.
What we had to do are the singlehardest thing for us to do and
the most important as humanbeings,
Skyler (12:12):
I love that.
That's fantastic because as soonas you started saying.
back when it was at$60, my mindwent to put all of my money
there, because between here andthere, all of that current
events just gets blurred andlost in time.
if you look at that startingprice and the ending price now.
You're like, put all of my moneyin it.
if you're 20 and listening tothis and you think in 40 or 60
years, you're like, well, Idon't know what the economy will
(12:33):
do.
I know the whole pastperformance isn't future
results.
But still, it tends to go upinto the right.
And in 40 or 60 years, if you donothing, you're gonna have
benefit from it.
Jonathan Blau (12:44):
Well, think about it this way, there's two options
in life when we're investing.
One is I can be a pessimist or Ican be an optimist.
Skyler (12:51):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (12:52):
the pessimist for the last 500,000.
years have lost,
Skyler (12:55):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (12:56):
five or 10 years.
that's not to say the worldcan't end.
It can, but people who premisetheir investment philosophy on
some apocalyptic speculation,whether it's Russia's gonna
engage in nuclear
Skyler (13:08):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (13:08):
and we'll have an Armageddon, or whether it's
Donald Trump is coming in andwe're gonna lose democracy,
whatever the Armageddon is whatI always tell people is, and
this is Art Cashin, who was thefloor trader for UBS who passed
away in the last year or two, hesaid it best, he said, the world
only ends once and betting onsomething that only happens once
is a very long shot, if theworld were about to end
(13:29):
tomorrow, we knew that Russiawas sending nukes over here and
there was nothing to do aboutit.
If we were in golden bondsinstead of investing in great
companies, it wouldn't stop it.
Skyler (13:38):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (13:38):
So what I tell people is if you invest for the
end of the world, so far it'snever happened.
people who invest in gold andseeds and bonds and cash, things
that freeze up purchasing powerin the face of
Skyler (13:49):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (13:49):
the real threat, those people have never
experienced an apocalyptic endof the world.
they've unfortunately survivedto live in a world that didn't
end.
But one which they investedtheir philosophy of invested for
one that would end.
Skyler (14:03):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (14:04):
what happens is they've created their own
financial apocalypse becausethey're
Skyler (14:07):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:08):
invest for a world that won't end, because if
it ends, it doesn't matter.
Skyler (14:12):
Yep.
That's one of my favorite thingsis people will talk about, put
your money in a total market oran s and p 500 fund.
If you're getting started andpeople will be like, well, what
if the stocks go down?
if that all goes to zero, wehave other problems.
Like if the s and p 500 crashes.
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:26):
what if the stocks go down?
I tell them, no, the stocks willgo down.
Skyler (14:30):
Yes.
Jonathan Blau (14:31):
I tell
Skyler (14:31):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:32):
the s and p 500 goes down frequently, sharply,
but always temporarily.
Skyler (14:40):
Yes.
Jonathan Blau (14:41):
the thing that human nature can't grasp is that
we can't, the way we areprogrammed for survival, we have
this amygdala at the base of ourbrain, the fear sensors and it's
evolved to be the strongest andfastest reacting.
That's why we're here today.
We evolved
Skyler (14:53):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:53):
To protect us, but it protected us from the
Savannah threats, of a bear or alion in the woods.
Skyler (14:59):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:59):
Sensors today don't know the difference
between a permanent life anddeath threat or bear market
temporary.
It sends off the same signals
Skyler (15:08):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:08):
so we are programmed for survival in the
Savannah hundreds of
Skyler (15:12):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:13):
Is the worst way to be programmed to survive the
financial market of gyrations.
that's why what we do is soimportant from a behavioral
temperament standpoint.
We have to help peopleunderstand that they're
programmed to fail in thisendeavor.
Skyler (15:27):
Yeah, maybe we need to stop calling it a bear market
and use some sort of happy termwe need to call it a fire sale.
you're getting your stocks onsale,
Jonathan Blau (15:33):
remember what I always tell people is, we don't,
as investors, long-terminvestors, my clients,
Skyler (15:38):
mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:38):
own the stock market.
Skyler (15:40):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:41):
the craziest place where some of the craziest
people gather every day torespond to every crazy news item
that there is.
We don't buy that.
Skyler (15:49):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (15:49):
buy great companies and the way we buy
them is they trade as stocks andyou have to access'em through
that stock market.
But if you're a long terminvestor, the flash crash where
the market goes down, in aminute has nothing to do with
you.
I don't care if the marketcloses for five days.
He says, look, market closesevery weekend.
I don't have a panic attackevery As long as I'm buying
great companies, they're gonnakeep doing what they do.
(16:11):
The population's growing, andwhether the market's closed or
open, like it was closed forfour days after nine 11, I'm
gonna make money.
Skyler (16:18):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (16:19):
And so what the market does on a daily basis,
has nothing to do, and when thestock prices go down, the value
of what I own is increasing.
Skyler (16:29):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (16:29):
Two months ago, prices of stocks went down 20%
The value of those companiesthat I owned increased.
I'm getting more earnings forless money.
Skyler (16:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (16:37):
growth for less money.
That's a blessing for someonewho has money to invest, but
it's meaningless for someonewho's a long-term investor and
understands that short-termprice decline is temporary and
the long-term enduring values ofthose companies certainly didn't
decline yesterday by 20%.
Skyler (16:52):
Yeah.
And the one thing that I thinkis great too, I like to tell my
friends and people, when you'redoing those regular monthly
contributions to your investmentaccounts or your 401k When
you're in those periods of itbeing down, that's a chance to
buy it on sell.
I looked at my stock and stuff.
I looked at my investments andour index funds yesterday, and
there was one purchase we madethat was probably the bottom of
(17:13):
whatever turmoil we were havinga couple months ago.
I look at that now and I'm like.
Wow.
If all of my money could havebeen right there, like there's,
there's a chance, but you haveno way of guessing that.
But that is the way to buoyyourself up and look at it when
it's going up.
Jonathan Blau (17:25):
so any investor, to your point, who's got more
than a month to retire, I'mbeing
Skyler (17:30):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:30):
Someone who's got 5, 10, 20 years to retire,
Skyler (17:34):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:34):
should be wishing that the market goes
Skyler (17:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:38):
for the next 15 years.
Because Warren Buffet said ifI'm a producer of hamburgers, I
want the price of cattle to goup.
Right.
Skyler (17:47):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:47):
if I'm a consumer of hamburgers, I want the price
to go down.
Skyler (17:50):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:51):
who are retiring 20 years are consumers of those
hamburgers, but they want theprices to go off.
Skyler (17:56):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (17:56):
They're happy when it goes up 20%.
Now I'll buy, it's the mostirrational, thought process, and
that's what we do.
Skyler (18:02):
Yeah, that's the key thing, being rational, and
that's where the plan can be.
Huge.
When it comes to avoiding thatFOMO or feeling like, oh, I'm
missing out on the big stockboom.
It's like, well, if it's up atthe top, you've already missed
out on it.
it's the climb that makes peoplemoney, not the peak that makes
people money, but people often,listen to these current events
or get on Instagram reelslooking at all the financial
(18:22):
news and they feel like they'remissing out on something.
how do we avoid feeling likewe're missing out with all the
news going on?
Jonathan Blau (18:28):
that's an important issue.
I think the best way to do that,to not feel like you're missing
out is focus on what it is thatyou don't want to and can't
afford to miss, which is theachievement of most or all of
those goals you set forth inyour plan.
Skyler (18:42):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (18:43):
And so if you focus on that, you recognize,
all right, by 60, I wanna get to5 million, and this way I can
spend 400,000 a year or whateverthe number is, 200,000 a year.
what do I need to do to getthere?
I need to work until age x, tosave X amount a year.
I need to keep my spending atthis level and choose
investments that'll makesomewhere in the neighborhood of
(19:03):
eight plus percent a year.
Skyler (19:06):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (19:06):
And then if I do all that right, that 8% a year,
that's the key is that peoplethink that in order to succeed
with their investments, theyneed to find and identify always
what is the next bestinvestment, highest returning
investment gonna be?
And let me get in on it, that'simpossible to consistently
Skyler (19:24):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (19:24):
And what that does, it leads to performance
chasing, which is the surest wayto underperform your goals.
Skyler (19:30):
Yep.
Jonathan Blau (19:30):
you need to avoid fomo understand that when it
comes to successful investing,if someone said, what's the most
important thing I can do to makethe most out of my investment
wealth?
The simple answer is, start asearly as you can
Skyler (19:44):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (19:44):
Time is the key.
compounding is not about findingthe best returns It's about
finding the best kind of averagereturns that I can sustain
Skyler (19:52):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (19:53):
period that's compounding and that will get me
to my goals.
anyone can run their plan onseven or 8% and see that it, we
get them there
Skyler (20:00):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (20:01):
And that's how you avoid fomo.
Skyler (20:03):
I love that.
your fear should be missing outon that sit steady, eight to 10%
return, your fear shouldn't bemissing out on the 25% return.
That could also be the 100%decline because that little
small startup goes completelyunder.
And you miss your normal eightto 10%, so let that easier
number be a little bit morescary for you to miss out on.
Jonathan Blau (20:23):
Think about baseball, right?
the people with the low batting,averages, they don't have low
averages'cause they don't hitenough home runs.
They have low averages'causethere's too many
Skyler (20:30):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (20:31):
and pop outs and that kind of strikeouts.
It's the same thing withinvesting, right?
you don't have to hit home runs,don't even try to hit don runs,
you're gonna fail.
So, so if you can internalizethat.
And understand that it's aboutconsistency and applying the
inputs that have worked for 200years, not what may be working
today or this year.
Skyler (20:52):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (20:53):
That gives you the highest odds of success.
It's that consistency that givesyou the highest odds, and once
you abandon that, most peoplewill fail miserably.
Skyler (21:02):
This has been a fantastic conversation.
we've covered a wide range ofthings already from creating
your plan, making sure it's timeand dollar based, ignoring
current events, because They'rejust gonna leave you chasing the
hot stock instead of keepingthat consistent return.
Now that people have a plan inplace, or want to get a plan in
place, there's still gonna beemotions flying at'em.
Like you're not going to say,I'm now going to ignore the news
(21:22):
and not have any emotion comeinto play because you're gonna
hear it.
Things are gonna come up,things, your stocks and
investment accounts will godown, and that's gonna cause you
to look up why, and then you'llget some emotion going.
What kind of emotions can peopleexpect even though they're on
this consistent and well laidout plan?
Jonathan Blau (21:39):
Every kind of emotion can still be expected,
one of the things I counselpeople on is I will never tell
someone to suppress the emotionsthat are natural, You, you can't
do that.
All I say is never.
Express those emotions and thosefears by changing your portfolio
construction designed to getyour goals and response to it.
and so that's what we do asbehavioral investment
(22:02):
counselors, which everyoneneeds.
As long as you're a human being,you need it, I you always need
to be aware, for example, ofsome of the basic, biases that
are embedded in us that willcause us to be afraid or want to
respond.
Skyler (22:14):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (22:14):
to make sure they don't respond.
so for example, loss aversionbias is one of the most powerful
biases.
Basically says it's proven thatwe feel, it's through money
investing or anything else.
Human beings feel the pain of aloss two to two and a half times
more than we feel the pleasureof an equivalent gain
Skyler (22:32):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (22:33):
we don't seek out strategies that maximize our
long-term wellbeing financiallyor otherwise.
We seek out strategies thatminimize our chance of
short-term loss
Skyler (22:42):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (22:43):
our chance of short term pleasure.
That's our
Skyler (22:45):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (22:46):
And those are the opposite things.
We need to succeed long term andinvesting and really most other
things in life, right?
people are gonna always beafraid no matter what we tell
them.
The key is to get them in theright allocation.
More of the investments that aresafe, which are real assets,
stocks to protect us against thereal threat inflation.
I.
of money, unless that are risky.
The bonds that freeze our moneyin the face of the disease of
(23:07):
inflation and actually carry thedisease, cause the disease to
continue.
Nobody can fight.
Human nature.
Human nature, my mentor says isalways in everywhere, a failed
investor.
Skyler (23:18):
you're definitely preaching to someone who loves
talking about money, hence thepodcast name and everything,
You're saying these people needto have, someone in their
corner, a professional or afriend or a group that they go
and share saying, Hey.
I'm feeling these emotions.
Can you help?
Maybe talk me back into my plan.
Having a money buddy is what Ilike to call it.
the goal is to say, here's allthis emotion that I'm feeling.
I'm gonna talk about it before Igo and make a change.
(23:39):
Like your first place when youhear, oh, there's new tariffs,
or, oh, the stock market justplummeted.
Your first place should not beyour investment account.
It should be to, like you said,a behavioral counselor or your
investing professional that's inyour corner Maybe you start
submitting some questions todifferent podcasts, which
they're gonna take a week or twoto get back to, so that'll give
you a chance to calm down aboutit while you wait for a
(24:01):
response.
I think the whole thing is justputting some delays in there and
talking to somebody about it isgonna be a huge helper when it
comes to handling thoseemotions.
That's a fantastic place toleave it on.
I got two final questions and Ireally wanna hear your one to
the last question, so we'll justkind of hurry through.
How can people contact you?
That, of course, will be in theshow notes.
Your website is fusion familywealth.com.
(24:21):
So anyone who wants to get intouch with you or learn more or
ask any questions, head overthere or head to the show notes
and you can find your email andcontact information.
But the last question that Iwanna ask you here, Jonathan, is
what's one thing you wish youwould've known sooner about
emotions in financial planning?
Jonathan Blau (24:36):
I wish I would've known, a long time ago before I
got into behavior about 15 yearsago in earnest.
I wish I knew a long time ago,that the pivotal point
Skyler (24:48):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (25:01):
On what we do, not what we
Skyler (25:03):
Mm.
Jonathan Blau (25:04):
Yeah.
Skyler (25:04):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (25:04):
be the smartest person in the world.
Did I sell out an abject fear in2008 to response to the
financial crisis?
You bet I did.
Didn't matter how smart I was,it's what we do, not what we
know.
if I knew that 30 years ago, I'dhave been a much better advisor,
helping people preserve andbuild a lot more wealth a lot
sooner.
So that's the one thing I wish Ilearned early on.
Skyler (25:26):
Stick to your plan and just keep doing it no matter how
smart you are or whether youthink you found the next hot
item that's gonna go to themoon.
As people like to say, stayconsistent with your plan and
that's what's ultimately gonnamatter.
Jonathan, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
This has been a greatconversation.
Jonathan Blau (25:41):
Thank you, Skylar.
I enjoyed it.
Thank you so much to Jonathanfor coming on this episode.
we are gonna have some soloepisodes coming up, so stay
tuned for those.
It's gonna be just me talkingabout personal finance, which
gets back to the basics of whatthis podcast started out as, but
(26:04):
the first money talking pointtoday.
Is, what value does ignoringcurrent events bring you?
Well, for me, it can bringimmense value.
It brings you clarity of yourown plan.
You don't have to worry so muchabout negativity news, changing
your plan.
The news really only ever bringsnegativity into your life.
Uh, that's, that's a point thatI'm gonna choose to stand on.
(26:26):
The news really only ever bringsnegativity into your life'cause
you don't watch the news.
And remember that one good feel,good story.
You always remember thosenegative things, the
heartbreaking things, and thethings that just make you feel
gross because they suck.
Like who cares?
Don't watch the news.
There are a lot better ways tofind positivity than the rare
gem that the news will deliver.
(26:46):
That's another thing.
News is a net negative, so stayaway from it.
Watching the news is likedumpster diving.
You may find something reallygood, but ultimately you're just
sifting through garbage.
Not watching the news andignoring current events is gonna
help you be less reactionary.
News and big financial TV mediais not about helping you.
It's about getting you topurchase and sign up for their
products and services are asubscription to their website.
(27:08):
Emotional and mental fatigue area very real thing, and this
stress can take a physical tollon your body.
Always absorbing negativity isgoing to wear you out.
Let's think about it for asecond.
When was the last time youwatched the news?
Was there anything good that youremember?
It's unlikely because you'reprobably just remembering the
sad thing, the car accident,somebody dying, something crazy
(27:30):
happening.
Yeah.
Anyways, you're not going toremember the positive little,
tiny, tiny rare gems that comefrom the news.
It's just gonna wear you out,and that's a great reason to
ignore current events just inyour life as a whole, let alone
your financial decisions,because financial decisions can
be emotional enough.
Now, think about how emotionalit can be when you weren't even
(27:51):
planning on making a decision inthat area.
That's what, watching the newsand trying to always stay up to
date with current events can doto you.
It brings emotion and stressinto areas in your life that you
don't even need to be thinkingabout.
Which leads us into our nextmoney talking point.
When was the last time you feltemotion around a financial
decision?
Well, my wife and I arecurrently talking about what
(28:12):
we're going to do with healthinsurance now that I've quit my
job, which was providing us withhealth insurance.
There's a lot of emotion aroundthis.
It's a great time to find healthinsurance that's gonna cover
some medical things that were.
Looking to do in the future?
Or is it a time to save money?
Do we wanna maintain HSAeligibility?
Is it a time to save money sinceonly one of us is working?
Should we go uninsured?
There are a lot of emotionsaround this seemingly simple
(28:33):
decision now.
What kind of decisions havebrought emotion into your life?
I want to hear from all of youlistening.
Leave a comment on Spotify,YouTube, wherever you're
listening, shoot me an email ora text.
Please reach out.
What's a financial decision thatyou have felt a motion around
recently?
I would love to hear examples ofthis.
The third and final moneytalking point here is how can
you build a plan that willwithstand the emotional
rollercoaster?
Well, the main thing that yougotta do here is build the plan.
(28:55):
When you're in a good emotionalplace, you gotta be date and
dollar specific.
I really like the phrasementioned by Jonathan in the
interview being date and dollarspecific.
What does that mean?
Well, it means you have aspecific amount and a use by
date on that amount.
For example, you could say, Iwant to go on vacation in 2027.
The date is kind of specific,but there's no dollar amount
(29:15):
behind it.
I would even argue that you maywant to get a little bit more
specific about the vacationitself and the date itself, but
you could say something likethis, I want to go on a vacation
that will cost$8,000 in June,2027.
It's helping you narrow yourtarget and your timeframe, so
give your goals, date specificand dollar specific measurements
(29:37):
so that you know exactly howmuch money you'll need by a
certain date.
And then make sure you plan forthe emotional rollercoaster.
Get a professional, a friend ora money buddy in your corner,
and go to them first with youremotional reactions.
Go to them for things likefeeling the need to invest in
Bitcoin because it's at all timehighs.
Go to them for things likefeeling like you have to buy a
(29:58):
house, because how are you evergonna buy a house in the future
if you don't buy one right now?
Go to them for emotional thingslike, I need to get a brand new
car or anything like that.
That is just a decision that'sbeing based off of emotion and
maybe not entirely off of yourfinancial plan, but also like a
word of caution here.
Make sure this isn't someoneelse who suffers from the same
(30:18):
emotional fluctuations as youdo.
Or you may both end up makingthat emotional financial
decision that you are trying toavoid.
So be careful there.
Don't have a money buddy in yourcorner that loves crypto and
likes to buy it at all time.
Highs and always isn't puttingmoney in when it's at an all
time high.
And then you go to them saying,Hey, I'm feeling a lot of
emotion about investing inBitcoin right now.
And they say, me too.
(30:40):
Let's both do it.
Let's double down.
You have to be careful aboutthose sort of things and make
sure it's somebody who canactually calm you down when you
have that emotional situationcoming up.
Instead in that example, I couldtalk to my wife who could not
care less about crypto, andthat's great for helping me get
through that emotionalrollercoaster of wanting to
invest in crypto when it's goingup or when I start seeing it in
(31:00):
the news or in current events.
But that does it for the moneytalking points today we're at
the finish line for thisepisode, so let's wrap this one
up.
Thank you to each of you forlistening to this episode.
I wanna announce my very ownsubreddit to all of you
listeners here at the end.
Head over to reddit.com/r/moneytalk to join today.
I think it's gonna be a greatplace for us to have some simple
(31:20):
and powerful fun money talks.
Join today and be one of thefirst in the group.
But in today's episode, weimpact one of the most toxic
things that impacts our personalfinances.
I.
Current events and news.
This is an area that we feellike we may not have a lot of
control, but turn offnotifications.
Stop listening to the news, anddon't worry about tariffs or
whatever they're gonna do toyour retirement plan.
(31:40):
That's 30 plus years away.
Don't fret so much and take iteasy.
Remember the news is likedumpster diving.
There may be something good inthere, but really you're just
sifting through garbage.
What I really want to drive homeis this idea of building a
system that will ebb and flowwith your emotional
rollercoaster that we're all on.
Make sure that you have a moneybuddy in your corner that you
can run your emotional decisionsby to help you slow down.
(32:01):
Take a deep breath and stop youbefore you do anything harmful
to your plan.
Build a plan that fits yourlife.
Automate where you can and findsomeone to talk to when the
emotions run high.
Because at the end of the day,sticking to your plan is how you
actually win with money.
But thank you for listening totoday's episode.
The best way to stay up to dateand connected with all Things
Money Talk is to subscribe tothe podcast and my email list.
(32:22):
Head over to Money talk.show andsubmit your name and email right
there on the homepage.
You can also use the contactpage on my website to send me
any questions you might have.
And remember, the best way tolearn from today's episode is to
go and have a money.
Talk about today's topic with afellow money buddy, what you can
do now at reddit.com/r/moneytalk.
So head over there and let's gettalking.
But thank you for listening tothis week's episode of Money
(32:44):
Talk.
I'm your host, Skylar Fleming.
Have a great week.
Welcome Money Buddies to thisweek's episode of Money Talk.
(00:03):
This week we're talking aboutemotions, ignoring the news and
sticking to the plan.
I'm your host, Skyler Fleming,and let's get talking.
I am very excited for thisinterview today.
(00:23):
This is something that I havethought about for years.
Ignore the news.
I have not watched a newsbroadcast since the pandemic,
and even quite a bit beforethen.
I hardly watched.
I am all the better off for itas well.
I don't worry so much.
I'm not bothered by events thathappen that have absolutely no
impact on my day-to-day life.
And I think I'm overall happierfor not having watched the news
(00:46):
in years, much to the chagrin ofmy grandma who thinks I'm
missing out on what's going onaround me.
Frankly, I don't think itmatters.
I can choose to stay up to datewith the things that I want to,
but I don't have to deal withthe drama and sadness and the.
Depression that comes fromwatching the news.
But today we're gonna take theidea and apply it to your
personal finances.
(01:06):
How can you avoid the currentevents and manage the emotions
that come into your life withever changing policies, news,
different guidance and advicefrom all sorts of different
people online?
How can you build a financialplan on a solid foundation
that's going to last?
And I know this one is gonnahelp a lot of you out with
sticking to your plan and notdeviating so much.
Let me know what you learned bysending me a text using the link
(01:27):
in the top of the show notes orleave a comment on Spotify or
YouTube and we can have a greatmoney talk there as well.
But I know this money talk isgonna bring some people into the
light of ignoring the news andignoring current events.
So let's keep this train moving.
I wanna jump in here today witha Skyler story Time.
This one is gonna be about anupdate to the show.
There's some solo episodescoming up very soon and there
(01:49):
are some slight audio issues inthis episode, so I apologize
ahead of time.
But do look forward to thesesolo episodes that are coming
out.
I believe it's about two weeksaway that you'll be hearing a
solo episode about me becoming aCFP.
So make sure you're subscribed,share with Friends, and if
you're interested in becoming aCFP, send me your questions that
you might have, and I very wellcould cover them on the show.
(02:09):
But today's Money Buddy isJonathan Blau.
Jonathan is the founder and CEOof Fusion Family Wealth, a Long
Island based fee only registeredinvestment advisory firm.
His approach focusespredominantly on conditioning
investors to learn to ignorecurrent events, act on their
plan, and never react to themarkets and the media, which is
perfect with what we're gonnatalk about today.
The money talking points todayare, what value does ignoring
(02:33):
current events bring you?
Two.
When was the last time you feltemotion around a financial
decision?
And three, how can you build aplan that will withstand the
emotional rollercoaster withthose money talking points in
mind?
Let's get talking and welcomeJonathan to the show.
Jonathan Blau (02:47):
Thank you, Skyler.
Pleasure to be here
Skyler (02:49):
I'm super excited for this conversation because this
is something that I especiallypreach to all my friends who are
trying to get me to invest inthe latest cryptos or whatever
it may be, right?
Whatever's that hot button item.
We're talking today aboutcurrent events, and frankly, why
you should ignore them.
this is gonna be a funconversation because there is so
much news out there that canpull and tug and make your mind
(03:09):
go in so many differentdirections, make your wallet go
in so many different directions.
Let's kick it off with why weshould have a plan for our
money.
And I know one of the mainthings we're gonna talk about is
so that this current eventsdon't impact it, but why do you
think there's so much value inplanning with our money?
Jonathan Blau (03:24):
So, it's critical, to understand the
importance of a plan.
I'll start off answering it witha reference to, one of my
favorite characters, Yogi Berra.
He said, You better make sureyou know where you're going.
'cause otherwise you might notget there.
Skyler (03:38):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (03:38):
if you have no roadmap, you're not likely to
succeed other than by randomchance or luck.
and I wouldn't want to count onthat for anything in life.
So I always tell investors that,having a plan is never a
guarantee that you'll succeed.
In meeting all your objectives,but the absence of a plan is the
closest thing I've ever seen toa guarantee of failure.
(04:01):
So we have to learn to operaterationally.
Under constant uncertainty.
Skyler (04:06):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (04:06):
having a plan is, here's my short term and long
term goals, objectives.
what is it that I should do inorder to increase the
probability?
of achieving them.
Skyler (04:16):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (04:16):
that plan becomes your benchmark, against which
you measure success or failureperiodically.
instead of what most people inthe investment community do,
they measure their, their, theirsuccess or failure against the
random, irrelevant benchmark,let's call it the performance of
the s and p 500.
You know, it's up 25 and I'monly up 18 or 16 last year.
(04:37):
Because seven companies areaccounting for 70% of the
return.
Skyler (04:41):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (04:42):
They're concentrating.
You're diversified, you'reprudent.
Don't worry about the outcome wecall outcome bias.
Don't let the outcome dictatewhat your input ought to be.
Skyler (04:50):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (04:50):
when you have that plan and your benchmark
then becomes the plan, now youhave a rational benchmark.
Hey, three years out, I embarkedon this plan.
I want it to have X amount ofmoney so I can retire in five
years.
Where am I?
And based on where I am, shouldI make changes?
am I just fine doing what we'redoing?
What are the steps I should,adjust?
You should never change it inresponse to current events.
(05:12):
'cause current events havenothing to do with somebody's
plan.
I always tell people your plan.
Is about, what you're gonna have20 years from now and the 10
years on either side of that.
That's the focal point of theplan.
Whether we have a tariff todayin 2025 or not, has nothing to
do with that.
Skyler (05:28):
Yeah.
you hit the nail right on thehead with the main thing Causing
so much commotion in people'sfinances is will there be a
tariff?
Is there gonna be some sort ofpause around it?
Will there not be a pause?
Is it gonna go up or down?
Like that's the main thing,pulling on everyone's money.
But there's a couple key thingsin there that you talked about
with why a plan is so important.
And I've heard it described in asimilar way, but saying like, if
you're trying to get across thecountry and you did it with like
(05:50):
there was no road signs, right?
Like you can probably get adecent way across the country
just with road signs, not evenwith GPS.
Like if you get more granularand use a GPS map and things
like that.
Jonathan Blau (06:00):
Right.
Skyler (06:00):
path, but trying to, if there was no like highway sign
saying New York, 100 miles,things like that, you would have
no clue where you're going.
So that's the potential of aplan is building that framework
to say, turn right in a couplehundred miles And I think that's
the way I've heard it describedis if you tried to get from Los
Angeles to New York with nosigns or a map you might end up
in Canada or Mexico But that'sthe same sort of thing with your
(06:22):
money.
Jonathan Blau (06:23):
It is true a hundred percent.
You need guideposts and youneed, benchmarks, that instructs
what you need to change or notchange based on, what you've
accomplished toward your shortand long term goals
Skyler (06:33):
Yeah, and I, I love the idea that you said there of that
personal benchmark of havingsomething that is your own goal
set up to help you stay aligned,because like you said, is your
benchmark, just this.
Total market index fund.
Is it the, just the s and p 500who really, who really knows if
you can keep up with that?
if you don't have a specificgoal in mind, you don't know
(06:56):
which way you're going becauseyou don't have your own plan.
Where if you set some sort ofplan that you need to keep,
seven, eight, 9% benchmark,then, you know, is my plan
hitting that.
But another thing here, there'sa couple of different things
that you mentioned aboutcomponents like having your own
benchmark.
Having your own plan as aguidepost, what are some other
components that people need toconsider in their plan?
Jonathan Blau (07:18):
So what they really should consider is a
plan.
A portfolio is not a plan, andthe majority of investors think
a portfolio is a plan.
we need to understand that aplan in order to be effective,
should be date specific anddollar specific.
Skyler (07:33):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (07:34):
by the time I'm 60, how much principle.
Do I need to acquire in order toretire comfortably and stay
comfortably retired?
If I wanna spend x.
If there is no date specific indollar specific goal, you don't
have a plan.
those are the two most importantcomponents.
the other thing I'd say is oneof the most important thing
about a plan is planning on aplan, not going according to
(07:57):
plan.
Skyler (07:57):
Yeah,
Jonathan Blau (07:58):
a plan B, right?
Skyler (07:59):
your assumptions will be wrong.
Jonathan Blau (08:00):
Yeah.
and so you have to accept thatit's all based on probabilities.
I'll share with you, somethingthat I think's relevant to this,
Barry Riol has his definition ofinvesting because I recently
read his book and I love it.
It's the art of using imperfectinformation.
I.
To make probabilisticassessments about an inherently
unknowable future.
(08:21):
that's investing.
That's also planning.
Skyler (08:23):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (08:24):
so when you recognize the three most
important words, as he says ininvesting are, I don't know.
Skyler (08:30):
Yeah.
Or it depends.
Jonathan Blau (08:32):
How high is it gonna
Skyler (08:33):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (08:33):
Neither do these clowns on CNBC with the fancy
titles.
they don't have any more factsabout the future than you or I
my mentor, Nick Murray, alwaysused to say the defining
characteristics about the futureis there are no facts about it.
Skyler (08:45):
I love that.
we're just guessing pretty muchif you get down to the nitty
gritty, and there can be a lotof education that goes into it
to make an informed guess,Ultimately, especially right
now, things are changing somuch.
There could be some new tariff,there could be some new policy
that comes out.
There could be changes tolegislation that makes your,
your whole plan that you areplanning for 20, 30 years need
to change because of a differentopportunity.
(09:07):
if you try to stay caught upwith everything in the moment
that it happens, that justcauses your brain to go haywire.
Why should we ignore the newsand current events around
financial stuff that's flying atus?
Jonathan Blau (09:19):
so in short, there's a bunch of reasons.
One is, it's not really news.
it's, as I say, it's resultsoriented
Skyler (09:26):
entertainment.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (09:28):
as journalism.
it's actually worse thanentertainment.
What it is, in the media,whether it's financial or
otherwise, the term that'salways been used in the
advertising industry, if itbleeds, it leads,
Skyler (09:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (09:37):
attack or a plane crash first.
our goal is not to educate youabout the world or the financial
world of
Skyler (09:43):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (09:44):
Our goal is to maximize clicks.
So we maximize ad revenues andwe collude with our partners,
'cause they also want action.
They want you to.
Be call to action so they cansell you their hedge products
and all their alternativeproduct and all the things that
you might wanna buy,
Skyler (09:59):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (10:00):
in response to the fears that they're creating
for you.
So that's one of the reasons youdon't wanna listen to it,
because they're not telling youthings to help you.
Skyler (10:08):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (10:08):
things to benefit themselves actually at your
expense.
The other reason not to listento the news, and I'll give you
this.
in a nice little brief historylesson for my lifetime.
I'm born in 1967, right beforethe Vietnam War.
During the Vietnam War.
and the s and p was about 60,give or take.
Skyler (10:25):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (10:25):
and so you had the Vietnam War in 1962.
You had the Cuban Missile Crisiswhere our country could be
obliterated 90 miles off theshores of Miami by Russia via
Cuba.
And then you had the seventies,arguably the worst.
Economic decade in our lifetime,modern history, where
unemployment, inflation and,interest rates were all
approaching 20%.
The worst energy crisis in 1973, 4 in history, the market
(10:49):
declined 50% in 73.
Four was the first of three.
In my lifetime.
Skyler (10:54):
Wow.
Jonathan Blau (10:55):
Now you have 1987.
The worst single day collapse inthe market in history still
holds the record.
And then 1990, the worst realestate crisis, and you could
keep going.
The, the, the,
Skyler (11:05):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:06):
bubble down 50% followed six years later with
the, credit crisis
Skyler (11:11):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:12):
So the market's down 50.
50 and 63 times in my short 58years.
And along those, with thosethree Hals or more, we also had
a total of, let's say, I don'tknow, 13 bear markets, nine or
so recessions.
And also we had all thosecurrent events, terrorist
attacks, everything.
Skyler (11:30):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:31):
the market go from 60 to 6,000.
It's gone up a hundred times.
A million is a hundred million.
Skyler (11:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:37):
did one have to do?
As an investor in the s and p500 or some similarly
diversified portfolio of great
Skyler (11:45):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (11:46):
in order to have that happen
Skyler (11:48):
Yeah, you had to ignore all that.
'cause if you pulled it outbecause it was going down, you
missed out on all of that climb.
Jonathan Blau (11:53):
what we had to do as investors to turn our money,
up a hundred times during thatperiod I just described of
recessions and halvings andeverything else that happened,
Republicans and Democrats, youname it.
Skyler (12:04):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (12:04):
rates as low as zeros, high as 20.
What we had to do are the singlehardest thing for us to do and
the most important as humanbeings,
Skyler (12:12):
I love that.
That's fantastic because as soonas you started saying.
back when it was at$60, my mindwent to put all of my money
there, because between here andthere, all of that current
events just gets blurred andlost in time.
if you look at that startingprice and the ending price now.
You're like, put all of my moneyin it.
if you're 20 and listening tothis and you think in 40 or 60
years, you're like, well, Idon't know what the economy will
(12:33):
do.
I know the whole pastperformance isn't future
results.
But still, it tends to go upinto the right.
And in 40 or 60 years, if you donothing, you're gonna have
benefit from it.
Jonathan Blau (12:44):
Well, think about it this way, there's two options
in life when we're investing.
One is I can be a pessimist or Ican be an optimist.
Skyler (12:51):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (12:52):
the pessimist for the last 500,000.
years have lost,
Skyler (12:55):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (12:56):
five or 10 years.
that's not to say the worldcan't end.
It can, but people who premisetheir investment philosophy on
some apocalyptic speculation,whether it's Russia's gonna
engage in nuclear
Skyler (13:08):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (13:08):
and we'll have an Armageddon, or whether it's
Donald Trump is coming in andwe're gonna lose democracy,
whatever the Armageddon is whatI always tell people is, and
this is Art Cashin, who was thefloor trader for UBS who passed
away in the last year or two, hesaid it best, he said, the world
only ends once and betting onsomething that only happens once
is a very long shot, if theworld were about to end
(13:29):
tomorrow, we knew that Russiawas sending nukes over here and
there was nothing to do aboutit.
If we were in golden bondsinstead of investing in great
companies, it wouldn't stop it.
Skyler (13:38):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (13:38):
So what I tell people is if you invest for the
end of the world, so far it'snever happened.
people who invest in gold andseeds and bonds and cash, things
that freeze up purchasing powerin the face of
Skyler (13:49):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (13:49):
the real threat, those people have never
experienced an apocalyptic endof the world.
they've unfortunately survivedto live in a world that didn't
end.
But one which they investedtheir philosophy of invested for
one that would end.
Skyler (14:03):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (14:04):
what happens is they've created their own
financial apocalypse becausethey're
Skyler (14:07):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:08):
invest for a world that won't end, because if
it ends, it doesn't matter.
Skyler (14:12):
Yep.
That's one of my favorite thingsis people will talk about, put
your money in a total market oran s and p 500 fund.
If you're getting started andpeople will be like, well, what
if the stocks go down?
if that all goes to zero, wehave other problems.
Like if the s and p 500 crashes.
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:26):
what if the stocks go down?
I tell them, no, the stocks willgo down.
Skyler (14:30):
Yes.
Jonathan Blau (14:31):
I tell
Skyler (14:31):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:32):
the s and p 500 goes down frequently, sharply,
but always temporarily.
Skyler (14:40):
Yes.
Jonathan Blau (14:41):
the thing that human nature can't grasp is that
we can't, the way we areprogrammed for survival, we have
this amygdala at the base of ourbrain, the fear sensors and it's
evolved to be the strongest andfastest reacting.
That's why we're here today.
We evolved
Skyler (14:53):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:53):
To protect us, but it protected us from the
Savannah threats, of a bear or alion in the woods.
Skyler (14:59):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (14:59):
Sensors today don't know the difference
between a permanent life anddeath threat or bear market
temporary.
It sends off the same signals
Skyler (15:08):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:08):
so we are programmed for survival in the
Savannah hundreds of
Skyler (15:12):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:13):
Is the worst way to be programmed to survive the
financial market of gyrations.
that's why what we do is soimportant from a behavioral
temperament standpoint.
We have to help peopleunderstand that they're
programmed to fail in thisendeavor.
Skyler (15:27):
Yeah, maybe we need to stop calling it a bear market
and use some sort of happy termwe need to call it a fire sale.
you're getting your stocks onsale,
Jonathan Blau (15:33):
remember what I always tell people is, we don't,
as investors, long-terminvestors, my clients,
Skyler (15:38):
mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:38):
own the stock market.
Skyler (15:40):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (15:41):
the craziest place where some of the craziest
people gather every day torespond to every crazy news item
that there is.
We don't buy that.
Skyler (15:49):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (15:49):
buy great companies and the way we buy
them is they trade as stocks andyou have to access'em through
that stock market.
But if you're a long terminvestor, the flash crash where
the market goes down, in aminute has nothing to do with
you.
I don't care if the marketcloses for five days.
He says, look, market closesevery weekend.
I don't have a panic attackevery As long as I'm buying
great companies, they're gonnakeep doing what they do.
(16:11):
The population's growing, andwhether the market's closed or
open, like it was closed forfour days after nine 11, I'm
gonna make money.
Skyler (16:18):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (16:19):
And so what the market does on a daily basis,
has nothing to do, and when thestock prices go down, the value
of what I own is increasing.
Skyler (16:29):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (16:29):
Two months ago, prices of stocks went down 20%
The value of those companiesthat I owned increased.
I'm getting more earnings forless money.
Skyler (16:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (16:37):
growth for less money.
That's a blessing for someonewho has money to invest, but
it's meaningless for someonewho's a long-term investor and
understands that short-termprice decline is temporary and
the long-term enduring values ofthose companies certainly didn't
decline yesterday by 20%.
Skyler (16:52):
Yeah.
And the one thing that I thinkis great too, I like to tell my
friends and people, when you'redoing those regular monthly
contributions to your investmentaccounts or your 401k When
you're in those periods of itbeing down, that's a chance to
buy it on sell.
I looked at my stock and stuff.
I looked at my investments andour index funds yesterday, and
there was one purchase we madethat was probably the bottom of
(17:13):
whatever turmoil we were havinga couple months ago.
I look at that now and I'm like.
Wow.
If all of my money could havebeen right there, like there's,
there's a chance, but you haveno way of guessing that.
But that is the way to buoyyourself up and look at it when
it's going up.
Jonathan Blau (17:25):
so any investor, to your point, who's got more
than a month to retire, I'mbeing
Skyler (17:30):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:30):
Someone who's got 5, 10, 20 years to retire,
Skyler (17:34):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:34):
should be wishing that the market goes
Skyler (17:37):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:38):
for the next 15 years.
Because Warren Buffet said ifI'm a producer of hamburgers, I
want the price of cattle to goup.
Right.
Skyler (17:47):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:47):
if I'm a consumer of hamburgers, I want the price
to go down.
Skyler (17:50):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (17:51):
who are retiring 20 years are consumers of those
hamburgers, but they want theprices to go off.
Skyler (17:56):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (17:56):
They're happy when it goes up 20%.
Now I'll buy, it's the mostirrational, thought process, and
that's what we do.
Skyler (18:02):
Yeah, that's the key thing, being rational, and
that's where the plan can be.
Huge.
When it comes to avoiding thatFOMO or feeling like, oh, I'm
missing out on the big stockboom.
It's like, well, if it's up atthe top, you've already missed
out on it.
it's the climb that makes peoplemoney, not the peak that makes
people money, but people often,listen to these current events
or get on Instagram reelslooking at all the financial
(18:22):
news and they feel like they'remissing out on something.
how do we avoid feeling likewe're missing out with all the
news going on?
Jonathan Blau (18:28):
that's an important issue.
I think the best way to do that,to not feel like you're missing
out is focus on what it is thatyou don't want to and can't
afford to miss, which is theachievement of most or all of
those goals you set forth inyour plan.
Skyler (18:42):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (18:43):
And so if you focus on that, you recognize,
all right, by 60, I wanna get to5 million, and this way I can
spend 400,000 a year or whateverthe number is, 200,000 a year.
what do I need to do to getthere?
I need to work until age x, tosave X amount a year.
I need to keep my spending atthis level and choose
investments that'll makesomewhere in the neighborhood of
(19:03):
eight plus percent a year.
Skyler (19:06):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (19:06):
And then if I do all that right, that 8% a year,
that's the key is that peoplethink that in order to succeed
with their investments, theyneed to find and identify always
what is the next bestinvestment, highest returning
investment gonna be?
And let me get in on it, that'simpossible to consistently
Skyler (19:24):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (19:24):
And what that does, it leads to performance
chasing, which is the surest wayto underperform your goals.
Skyler (19:30):
Yep.
Jonathan Blau (19:30):
you need to avoid fomo understand that when it
comes to successful investing,if someone said, what's the most
important thing I can do to makethe most out of my investment
wealth?
The simple answer is, start asearly as you can
Skyler (19:44):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (19:44):
Time is the key.
compounding is not about findingthe best returns It's about
finding the best kind of averagereturns that I can sustain
Skyler (19:52):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (19:53):
period that's compounding and that will get me
to my goals.
anyone can run their plan onseven or 8% and see that it, we
get them there
Skyler (20:00):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (20:01):
And that's how you avoid fomo.
Skyler (20:03):
I love that.
your fear should be missing outon that sit steady, eight to 10%
return, your fear shouldn't bemissing out on the 25% return.
That could also be the 100%decline because that little
small startup goes completelyunder.
And you miss your normal eightto 10%, so let that easier
number be a little bit morescary for you to miss out on.
Jonathan Blau (20:23):
Think about baseball, right?
the people with the low batting,averages, they don't have low
averages'cause they don't hitenough home runs.
They have low averages'causethere's too many
Skyler (20:30):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (20:31):
and pop outs and that kind of strikeouts.
It's the same thing withinvesting, right?
you don't have to hit home runs,don't even try to hit don runs,
you're gonna fail.
So, so if you can internalizethat.
And understand that it's aboutconsistency and applying the
inputs that have worked for 200years, not what may be working
today or this year.
Skyler (20:52):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (20:53):
That gives you the highest odds of success.
It's that consistency that givesyou the highest odds, and once
you abandon that, most peoplewill fail miserably.
Skyler (21:02):
This has been a fantastic conversation.
we've covered a wide range ofthings already from creating
your plan, making sure it's timeand dollar based, ignoring
current events, because They'rejust gonna leave you chasing the
hot stock instead of keepingthat consistent return.
Now that people have a plan inplace, or want to get a plan in
place, there's still gonna beemotions flying at'em.
Like you're not going to say,I'm now going to ignore the news
(21:22):
and not have any emotion comeinto play because you're gonna
hear it.
Things are gonna come up,things, your stocks and
investment accounts will godown, and that's gonna cause you
to look up why, and then you'llget some emotion going.
What kind of emotions can peopleexpect even though they're on
this consistent and well laidout plan?
Jonathan Blau (21:39):
Every kind of emotion can still be expected,
one of the things I counselpeople on is I will never tell
someone to suppress the emotionsthat are natural, You, you can't
do that.
All I say is never.
Express those emotions and thosefears by changing your portfolio
construction designed to getyour goals and response to it.
and so that's what we do asbehavioral investment
(22:02):
counselors, which everyoneneeds.
As long as you're a human being,you need it, I you always need
to be aware, for example, ofsome of the basic, biases that
are embedded in us that willcause us to be afraid or want to
respond.
Skyler (22:14):
Hmm.
Jonathan Blau (22:14):
to make sure they don't respond.
so for example, loss aversionbias is one of the most powerful
biases.
Basically says it's proven thatwe feel, it's through money
investing or anything else.
Human beings feel the pain of aloss two to two and a half times
more than we feel the pleasureof an equivalent gain
Skyler (22:32):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (22:33):
we don't seek out strategies that maximize our
long-term wellbeing financiallyor otherwise.
We seek out strategies thatminimize our chance of
short-term loss
Skyler (22:42):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (22:43):
our chance of short term pleasure.
That's our
Skyler (22:45):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (22:46):
And those are the opposite things.
We need to succeed long term andinvesting and really most other
things in life, right?
people are gonna always beafraid no matter what we tell
them.
The key is to get them in theright allocation.
More of the investments that aresafe, which are real assets,
stocks to protect us against thereal threat inflation.
I.
of money, unless that are risky.
The bonds that freeze our moneyin the face of the disease of
(23:07):
inflation and actually carry thedisease, cause the disease to
continue.
Nobody can fight.
Human nature.
Human nature, my mentor says isalways in everywhere, a failed
investor.
Skyler (23:18):
you're definitely preaching to someone who loves
talking about money, hence thepodcast name and everything,
You're saying these people needto have, someone in their
corner, a professional or afriend or a group that they go
and share saying, Hey.
I'm feeling these emotions.
Can you help?
Maybe talk me back into my plan.
Having a money buddy is what Ilike to call it.
the goal is to say, here's allthis emotion that I'm feeling.
I'm gonna talk about it before Igo and make a change.
(23:39):
Like your first place when youhear, oh, there's new tariffs,
or, oh, the stock market justplummeted.
Your first place should not beyour investment account.
It should be to, like you said,a behavioral counselor or your
investing professional that's inyour corner Maybe you start
submitting some questions todifferent podcasts, which
they're gonna take a week or twoto get back to, so that'll give
you a chance to calm down aboutit while you wait for a
(24:01):
response.
I think the whole thing is justputting some delays in there and
talking to somebody about it isgonna be a huge helper when it
comes to handling thoseemotions.
That's a fantastic place toleave it on.
I got two final questions and Ireally wanna hear your one to
the last question, so we'll justkind of hurry through.
How can people contact you?
That, of course, will be in theshow notes.
Your website is fusion familywealth.com.
(24:21):
So anyone who wants to get intouch with you or learn more or
ask any questions, head overthere or head to the show notes
and you can find your email andcontact information.
But the last question that Iwanna ask you here, Jonathan, is
what's one thing you wish youwould've known sooner about
emotions in financial planning?
Jonathan Blau (24:36):
I wish I would've known, a long time ago before I
got into behavior about 15 yearsago in earnest.
I wish I knew a long time ago,that the pivotal point
Skyler (24:48):
Mm-hmm.
Jonathan Blau (25:01):
On what we do, not what we
Skyler (25:03):
Mm.
Jonathan Blau (25:04):
Yeah.
Skyler (25:04):
Yeah.
Jonathan Blau (25:04):
be the smartest person in the world.
Did I sell out an abject fear in2008 to response to the
financial crisis?
You bet I did.
Didn't matter how smart I was,it's what we do, not what we
know.
if I knew that 30 years ago, I'dhave been a much better advisor,
helping people preserve andbuild a lot more wealth a lot
sooner.
So that's the one thing I wish Ilearned early on.
Skyler (25:26):
Stick to your plan and just keep doing it no matter how
smart you are or whether youthink you found the next hot
item that's gonna go to themoon.
As people like to say, stayconsistent with your plan and
that's what's ultimately gonnamatter.
Jonathan, thank you so much forcoming on the podcast.
This has been a greatconversation.
Jonathan Blau (25:41):
Thank you, Skylar.
I enjoyed it.
Thank you so much to Jonathanfor coming on this episode.
we are gonna have some soloepisodes coming up, so stay
tuned for those.
It's gonna be just me talkingabout personal finance, which
gets back to the basics of whatthis podcast started out as, but
(26:04):
the first money talking pointtoday.
Is, what value does ignoringcurrent events bring you?
Well, for me, it can bringimmense value.
It brings you clarity of yourown plan.
You don't have to worry so muchabout negativity news, changing
your plan.
The news really only ever bringsnegativity into your life.
Uh, that's, that's a point thatI'm gonna choose to stand on.
(26:26):
The news really only ever bringsnegativity into your life'cause
you don't watch the news.
And remember that one good feel,good story.
You always remember thosenegative things, the
heartbreaking things, and thethings that just make you feel
gross because they suck.
Like who cares?
Don't watch the news.
There are a lot better ways tofind positivity than the rare
gem that the news will deliver.
(26:46):
That's another thing.
News is a net negative, so stayaway from it.
Watching the news is likedumpster diving.
You may find something reallygood, but ultimately you're just
sifting through garbage.
Not watching the news andignoring current events is gonna
help you be less reactionary.
News and big financial TV mediais not about helping you.
It's about getting you topurchase and sign up for their
products and services are asubscription to their website.
(27:08):
Emotional and mental fatigue area very real thing, and this
stress can take a physical tollon your body.
Always absorbing negativity isgoing to wear you out.
Let's think about it for asecond.
When was the last time youwatched the news?
Was there anything good that youremember?
It's unlikely because you'reprobably just remembering the
sad thing, the car accident,somebody dying, something crazy
(27:30):
happening.
Yeah.
Anyways, you're not going toremember the positive little,
tiny, tiny rare gems that comefrom the news.
It's just gonna wear you out,and that's a great reason to
ignore current events just inyour life as a whole, let alone
your financial decisions,because financial decisions can
be emotional enough.
Now, think about how emotionalit can be when you weren't even
(27:51):
planning on making a decision inthat area.
That's what, watching the newsand trying to always stay up to
date with current events can doto you.
It brings emotion and stressinto areas in your life that you
don't even need to be thinkingabout.
Which leads us into our nextmoney talking point.
When was the last time you feltemotion around a financial
decision?
Well, my wife and I arecurrently talking about what
(28:12):
we're going to do with healthinsurance now that I've quit my
job, which was providing us withhealth insurance.
There's a lot of emotion aroundthis.
It's a great time to find healthinsurance that's gonna cover
some medical things that were.
Looking to do in the future?
Or is it a time to save money?
Do we wanna maintain HSAeligibility?
Is it a time to save money sinceonly one of us is working?
Should we go uninsured?
There are a lot of emotionsaround this seemingly simple
(28:33):
decision now.
What kind of decisions havebrought emotion into your life?
I want to hear from all of youlistening.
Leave a comment on Spotify,YouTube, wherever you're
listening, shoot me an email ora text.
Please reach out.
What's a financial decision thatyou have felt a motion around
recently?
I would love to hear examples ofthis.
The third and final moneytalking point here is how can
you build a plan that willwithstand the emotional
rollercoaster?
Well, the main thing that yougotta do here is build the plan.
(28:55):
When you're in a good emotionalplace, you gotta be date and
dollar specific.
I really like the phrasementioned by Jonathan in the
interview being date and dollarspecific.
What does that mean?
Well, it means you have aspecific amount and a use by
date on that amount.
For example, you could say, Iwant to go on vacation in 2027.
The date is kind of specific,but there's no dollar amount
(29:15):
behind it.
I would even argue that you maywant to get a little bit more
specific about the vacationitself and the date itself, but
you could say something likethis, I want to go on a vacation
that will cost$8,000 in June,2027.
It's helping you narrow yourtarget and your timeframe, so
give your goals, date specificand dollar specific measurements
(29:37):
so that you know exactly howmuch money you'll need by a
certain date.
And then make sure you plan forthe emotional rollercoaster.
Get a professional, a friend ora money buddy in your corner,
and go to them first with youremotional reactions.
Go to them for things likefeeling the need to invest in
Bitcoin because it's at all timehighs.
Go to them for things likefeeling like you have to buy a
(29:58):
house, because how are you evergonna buy a house in the future
if you don't buy one right now?
Go to them for emotional thingslike, I need to get a brand new
car or anything like that.
That is just a decision that'sbeing based off of emotion and
maybe not entirely off of yourfinancial plan, but also like a
word of caution here.
Make sure this isn't someoneelse who suffers from the same
(30:18):
emotional fluctuations as youdo.
Or you may both end up makingthat emotional financial
decision that you are trying toavoid.
So be careful there.
Don't have a money buddy in yourcorner that loves crypto and
likes to buy it at all time.
Highs and always isn't puttingmoney in when it's at an all
time high.
And then you go to them saying,Hey, I'm feeling a lot of
emotion about investing inBitcoin right now.
And they say, me too.
(30:40):
Let's both do it.
Let's double down.
You have to be careful aboutthose sort of things and make
sure it's somebody who canactually calm you down when you
have that emotional situationcoming up.
Instead in that example, I couldtalk to my wife who could not
care less about crypto, andthat's great for helping me get
through that emotionalrollercoaster of wanting to
invest in crypto when it's goingup or when I start seeing it in
(31:00):
the news or in current events.
But that does it for the moneytalking points today we're at
the finish line for thisepisode, so let's wrap this one
up.
Thank you to each of you forlistening to this episode.
I wanna announce my very ownsubreddit to all of you
listeners here at the end.
Head over to reddit.com/r/moneytalk to join today.
I think it's gonna be a greatplace for us to have some simple
(31:20):
and powerful fun money talks.
Join today and be one of thefirst in the group.
But in today's episode, weimpact one of the most toxic
things that impacts our personalfinances.
I.
Current events and news.
This is an area that we feellike we may not have a lot of
control, but turn offnotifications.
Stop listening to the news, anddon't worry about tariffs or
whatever they're gonna do toyour retirement plan.
(31:40):
That's 30 plus years away.
Don't fret so much and take iteasy.
Remember the news is likedumpster diving.
There may be something good inthere, but really you're just
sifting through garbage.
What I really want to drive homeis this idea of building a
system that will ebb and flowwith your emotional
rollercoaster that we're all on.
Make sure that you have a moneybuddy in your corner that you
can run your emotional decisionsby to help you slow down.
(32:01):
Take a deep breath and stop youbefore you do anything harmful
to your plan.
Build a plan that fits yourlife.
Automate where you can and findsomeone to talk to when the
emotions run high.
Because at the end of the day,sticking to your plan is how you
actually win with money.
But thank you for listening totoday's episode.
The best way to stay up to dateand connected with all Things
Money Talk is to subscribe tothe podcast and my email list.
(32:22):
Head over to Money talk.show andsubmit your name and email right
there on the homepage.
You can also use the contactpage on my website to send me
any questions you might have.
And remember, the best way tolearn from today's episode is to
go and have a money.
Talk about today's topic with afellow money buddy, what you can
do now at reddit.com/r/moneytalk.
So head over there and let's gettalking.
But thank you for listening tothis week's episode of Money
(32:44):
Talk.
I'm your host, Skylar Fleming.
Have a great week.
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