The Benefit of Taking Mini-Retirements Often with Jillian Johnsrud - 188 - Money Talk

Episode Transcript
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Skyler (00:00):
Welcome Money Buddies to this week's episode of Money
Talk.
This week we're talking aboutmini retirements, retiring
often, and how to figure outwhat you want.
I'm your host, Skylar Fleming,and let's get talking.

(00:22):
I am so excited for today'stopic.
Today's Money Buddy is JillianJohns rude, and it's someone who
I've wanted to talk to for awhile, and I've heard her talk
about this idea for a long timeover the past few years, so
getting to interview her on theshow is gonna be fantastic.
Her whole idea is that we shouldbe taking mini retirements and
we should be taking them often.
It's so much more than just aseven to 10 day vacation in my

(00:45):
mind, and I'm excited fortoday's interview to be able to
bring to all of you a guestwho's gonna help you figure out
how to live life.
Now, often we feel like we'rejust rushing towards early
retirement or some form ofquitting our job.
But one of the main questionsI'm gonna ask today is, these
mini retirements, do theyactually help us love work more?
And are they gonna help us enjoygoing back to work?
Which is gonna be a funconversation to have, and I'm

(01:06):
excited to get into it.
Let's jump right into today'sintroduction with today's money
buddy, Jillian John's route.
Jillian never expected to beable to retire early, so she
hatched a plan to retire, ofteninspired by the idea of
sabbatical years she set out tosprinkle retirements throughout
her life.
At 40, she has taken over adozen mini retirements.
These have allowed her to pursueher dreams like living abroad,

(01:27):
traveling to 27 countries,adopting four kids, plus two
biological kids, investing inreal estate and touring the
United States in a camper.
Jillian has taught, coached, andwritten about many retirements
for almost a decade.
She hosts The Retire OftenPodcast and is a popular speaker
and consultant for miniretirements, and I'm super
excited for this interview.
The money talking points forthis week are, how can you take

(01:49):
a mini retirement to, what doyou love to do?
And three, what would it looklike for you to take a mini
retirement?
With those many talking pointsin mind, let's get talking and
welcome Jillian to the show.

Jillian Johnsrud (02:00):
Thanks so much for having me.

Skyler (02:02):
Yeah, this is gonna be a super fun conversation.
This is finally gonna be onethat I think I can get my wife
to listen to because she is allabout this sort of idea.
She loves taking vacations andthings like that, so this will
be a fun one.
We're talking about retiringoften and mini retirements.
I've heard you on a variety ofother shows, so it's always kind
of exciting when I hear someoneelse's ideas.
Out there and then gonna bring'em to my show and my audience.

(02:23):
So this will be a super fun one.
I'm excited for this.
Let's go ahead and just kick itoff a simple definition of what
is a mini retirement.

Yeah, my definition of mini retirements
is there's three elements thatreally create a mini retirement.
The first one is that it's amonth or longer.
I think a month is kind of theminimum effective dose.
Some people take six months or ayear, two years, but at least a
month.
second one, you're stepping awayfrom your nine to five from your
primary career.

(02:50):
So.
Uh, I distinguish that.
'cause sometimes people realestate, do other, pursue a
different, maybe volunteer or anout a different, career field.
So there's lots of cool thingsyou can do professional sense,
but you're stepping away fromyour primary career.
And the third one is to focus onsomething that's meaningful.

Skyler (03:08):
Hmm.

you know, you're not just like chilling
and watching Netflix.
you're you're pursuing somethingthat will make your life better.

Skyler (03:15):
Which is one of my upcoming questions is, is this
just your idea of retirementthat maybe we see our
grandparents just sitting aroundon the couch watching TV all
day.

Not?
No, not necessarily.
Now I will, I will saysometimes, frequently people
burnout.

Skyler (03:31):
Hmm.

not that you can't have rest, but having that
as your having that as yourgoal, and for burnout, I
encourage people to have kind ofa plan and a little bit of
structure.
Like picking, I call activerest, uh, picking active rest,
like activities, whether that'sgoing for a walk or lunch with
your mom or, um, you know,taking a bath or reading a book,

(03:55):
about doing those things becauseit can be so easy to just kind
of fall to the lowest commondenominator,

Skyler (04:02):
Mm-hmm.

Scrolling Facebook or watching Netflix
and, and you don't feel rested,you're not getting, it's not
meaningful and it's

Skyler (04:09):
Yeah.

actually to any of these goals.

Skyler (04:12):
And we're throughout this interview, outline some of
those ways you can identify someof those things that are truly
meaningful to you.
But I.
I like the idea that, sure,maybe it can be a day of
watching and catching up on yourshows that you want to, but
you're intentional about saying,Hey, I wanna spend a day doing
this, but

Yeah.

Skyler (04:27):
just going to be, well, I'm gonna do whatever is in
front of me, because that'sgonna be, uh, binging shows on
all the various streamingplatforms.
It's gonna be, social media andI don't know, my idea of a mini
retirement, I don't wanna spenda month scrolling Facebook.
That just, that sounds kind ofmiserable.
I think you would then need amini retirement from that one,
be its own form of burnout.
Why do we need to take theseoften?
Why is this something we shoulddo more than just at the end of

(04:50):
our career?

Yeah, there's a reason.
So my book's called Retire OftenInstead of Have one Epic Massive
Mini

Skyler (04:57):
Mm-hmm.

Uh, because there's so many benefits of
doing this frequently, of reallybuilding this into our careers,
building this into ourlifestyle, that every every
other year, every three years,every five years, we're gonna
take a Maybe it's for a month,maybe it's for a year.
But building this in as a way,honestly, to be strategic about

(05:19):
our careers and elevate thatcareer trajectory and to elevate
our path to financial freedom,to financial independence.
can use these reallystrategically for that.
But the other thing is, is onthe personal side.
Not everything will wait tillyou're 65.

(05:40):
There are things in life thathave an expiration date you
know, even if you think aboutlike when your kids are little.
That's a short window

Skyler (05:49):
Hmm.

the difference between a 4-year-old and a
14-year-old.
You can do adventures witheither of them, but they're very
different adventures.
They're very differentexperiences.
So if you postpone these thingsfor a decade or four decades,
you're just gonna miss out andthere's no way to go back and
replicate that.

Skyler (06:09):
Yeah, it, wow.
That's a, that's a key pointthat I'm sure is gonna hit home
for a lot of people is there, ifyou wait, even honestly like a
couple of years, like that'scompletely different too.
So scheduling these out and kindof using'em strategically, like
you said, can one make you notregret your year to year living
and say, oh, I missed my kids.
Five to 10 year window when theywere five years old, that we

(06:30):
could have really enjoyedDisney.
Now I'm taking'em at 17 andthey're just grumpy about it the
whole time.
So there's a lot of differentwindows in there that you need
to take advantage of.

That's one of the things I love about kids is
it, it makes you be reallypresent of what's happening
right now, because three yearslater is gonna be very
different.
You know, I have a 9-year-oldand I have, uh, a 12
13-year-old.
Two girls in junior high a boyin grade school.

(07:01):
Those are not the same kids,like those are not the same
season in life.
Like two very hormonal, grumpygirls coming home from junior
high every day versus like a9-year-old coming home from
third grade.
You know, Life changes

Skyler (07:17):
Mm-hmm.

Um, and sometimes in ways that we
expect, but it also can changereally quickly in ways we don't
expect.
Maybe our parents' health takesa shift and you think, gosh,
I've

Skyler (07:30):
Hmm.

20 years that I could hike in Ireland with
them.
And then a year later they havecancer, or a year later they
have heart disease or you

Skyler (07:39):
Mm-hmm.
to have their knee replaced.
And you, and you're like, Ididn't, realize that that window
was actually so short.
Um, or you might have a healthissue come up and you're like,
gosh, I had all these thingsthat I planned to do and I
thought I had a really long andthen you realize, no, I, that
was, that was the one chance Ihad.
Yeah, and looking back on that,it just like, even thinking

(08:01):
about that fills me with regretof like, I don't wanna miss
those sort of things.
So the idea of.
Like for my, in my mind, my wifeworks a job where she has a
contract.
It's two years long, so maybe atthe end of that contract it's,
Hey, I'll sign another one witha month and a half gap in
between them and can we justblock out that schedule.
But you sign it ahead of time sothey know you're committed, but
they're not having to worryabout recruiting somebody during

(08:23):
that timeframe.
Those sort of things.
I think if you think about'em inadvance, I think people are more
willing to work with you on thatinstead of just coming into your
boss's office and saying, I needa month off right now.
Like, I don't think that's gonnafly super well.
But one of the thoughts I washaving in my mind is, as you're
talking, there may be peoplelistening who don't have kids,
and kids, can be a perfectexample of needing to take a

(08:44):
step away from work.
If somebody isn't in a situationwhere they have kids, can they
still find value in taking theselonger periods of time off?

Oh my gosh, absolutely.
I mean, many retirements arekind of like a Swiss Army knife.
they're one little thing thatdoes a hundred jobs.
Like it's a very multifacetedtool.
And know, I think kids are greatin like tracking the passage of
time.
You feel that a

Skyler (09:08):
Yeah.

intensely.
But there's so many usefulreasons to take mini
retirements.
One, you know, like we talkedabout for burnout, for careers,
or investing in your career.
I've had people

Skyler (09:22):
Mm-hmm.

to get extra certifications or extra training
that they just couldn't doalongside their nine to five.
And then adventures or, youknow, I, I had a friend who took
a mini retirement and he really,really wanted to get married and
like, had extra time to investin dating and to

Skyler (09:43):
Hmm.
Yeah.

a partner, um, who is actually moving in with
like in a couple days.
And I'm so excited for him.
Um.
But you know, you have thesegoals And these dreams and their
priorities and these hobbies andmini retirements can be almost a
capital investment

Skyler (09:58):
Mm-hmm.

in yourself, in your life.
I took, uh, a month long miniretirement in my twenties and I
did outpatient like six hours oftherapy a day for a month.
And it was like, it was like afull house renovation

Skyler (10:12):
Yeah, like a rebuild.

and honestly, my personal growth trajectory.
It massively

Skyler (10:19):
Mm-hmm.

that.
I, I measure my twenties asbefore the month of therapy and
after the month of therapybecause it was so radically
different.
Um, I took a month off, uh, lastyear to learn tango.
I

Skyler (10:34):
Hmm.

I met, I met this dancer and he would be so
embarrassed if, if he knew this,but he doesn't listen to
podcasts.
I'm gonna say it anyways.
he is in his seventies and like,so good at all of the dances and
he has all of these

Skyler (10:46):
Hmm.

and he's so physically active and he's so
mentally active and he's such acool human being that I thought,
oh my gosh.
I wanna be like that when I'm80.
I kind of wanna be like thatnow, like he's so awesome.
I thought if I took a month off,what a great investment of, I
only spent a thousand dollars a

Skyler (11:04):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

but now I have this hobby, I have this skillset
that will improve almost everyarea of my life for the next
four decades.

Skyler (11:14):
Yeah.
And yeah, it keeps you morephysically active, which is an
area that you need to make sureyou're like keeping up on so
your body doesn't fall apart asyou get older, so you can
actually enjoy retirement.
Like there's so many differentlittle facets that that starts
to play into.
And in way, like as you'retalking about this, I'm
realizing a mini retirement thatI'm doing right now.
Where I quit my job two weeksago to, I'm taking the CFP exam

(11:35):
in the middle of July, so I haveabout six weeks off to just
study and like, sure, I couldhave done that while I'm working
and I'm still doing somethingwhile I'm not working.
But now I'm able to dedicateeven a little bit more time
about it.
I'm able to take a nap in themiddle of the day to rest my
brain instead of just being from8:00 AM to 8:00 PM crammed with
work and studying.
So as I'm hearing this, it's notnecessarily that I'm completely

(11:58):
stepping away from everythingand just doing.
A pure vacation for six weeks.
Like there's still someintention and focus that I'm
working on, but also some ofthose little benefits, like you
were mentioning, my wife and Inow, I don't have to worry about
trying to get PTO from my jobbecause I can just move my
studies around to a day she'soff and we're able to go, like,
tomorrow we're going up to a, aNational reserve.

(12:18):
'cause it's free for Juneteenth.
like, if I was working, we maynot have been able to do
something like that.
So there's always these littlebenefits that have come up and
they just kind of just show upwhen you're doing this sort of
thing that.
I think is is super valuable, soI'm glad I was able to realize
that as we were talking aboutit.

I love that I think there can be so much guilt
and so much shame that

Skyler (12:38):
Mm-hmm.

we should be able to do a hundred different
things add something else majorto our plate.
Like why can't we do that?
Because we saw one human.
That we heard on one podcastthat was able to do this
incredible thing while doingtheir nine to

Skyler (12:55):
Or say they were able to.
Yeah.

And so, so we're like, well, should be able
to, and if we can't, then Iguess we just won't, instead of
saying what would work for me?
Like, what do I actually need?
What's gonna be most useful?
Like, a mini retirement, uh,right about the time I turned
40, I realized, oh my, my40-year-old body, actually I

(13:20):
need to take care of itdifferent than my 20-year-old
body.
Like

Skyler (13:23):
Hmm.

eat breakfast candy anymore.
My body records vegetablesapparently, like I have to do
strength training.
And I took a mini retirement'cause I was like, I need to
figure this out.

Skyler (13:34):
Hmm.

to figure out what kinds of food I need to
eat, how much like how toprepare these, how to.
Work out like how many steps Ineed, what my strength training
is, I need, to lose 40 pounds.
Like, and it's easy to say,well, I should, you know, I'm a
mom of five, I run a business.
Like I should be able to do allof those things and tackle this
huge, um, personal growth thingbecause, you know, one person on

(13:58):
the internet was a CEO and

Skyler (14:01):
Mm-hmm.

all of this.
And it's kinda like, Yeah.
cool.
I could say that I should beable to, but what if.
if I actually took

Skyler (14:08):
Mm-hmm.

to give myself what I needed and

Skyler (14:12):
Mm-hmm.

And

Skyler (14:13):
everything.
yeah.

yeah.
And invest in like the personalgrowth that matters to me.
Like knowing how to take care ofmyself.
It really matters to me.

Skyler (14:21):
Yeah.
That's fantastic.
And then the other thought thatcame to my mind too, just about
my situation and for everyonelistening, like if you do some
intentional planning about thisahead of time.
There was a period in my currentjob where my wife was in PA
school, so I wasn't taking awhole lot of time off, so I
saved up a lot of PTO, and nowthat I quit, that PTO pays out,
and now this month and a halfwhere I'm not working really

(14:42):
isn't a financial hit to us.
So with some planning, you'reable to see these opportunities
come up and I'm saying, yeah,I'll quit, and then the PTO pays
out another additional month'sworth of salary.
So now I'm essentially beingpaid for this time that I'm off,
and then I can start finding ajob towards the end of it as I
begin to move back into changingcareers.
Um, so there's, there's alwaysgonna be these opportunities

(15:02):
that people don't realize thatcome up as they're trying to do
these sort of things.

I think this is the future I.

Skyler (15:09):
Mm-hmm.

planning, being strategic that, you know
what?
I am gonna take a miniretirement every couple years,
every five years, and just, itdoesn't, they're simple.
they're not easy, but the

Skyler (15:21):
Mm-hmm.

is actually fairly simple.
And there is this misconceptionthat this would be enormously
expensive.
I need to save up$50,000.
I need$80,000 to do this.
And the reality is, when youretire often.
with the small, simple,affordable things.
You don't have to start with ahundred day around the world
cruise like you can.
You can start with a road trip.

(15:43):
You can start with learningtango.
You know, I had a guy on myemail list just emailed me like,
he's like, I didn't do tango.
but like I started taking guitarlessons like.

Skyler (15:51):
Yeah.
And

those things, and there's so many ways you can
make it more affordable.
a lot of different levels.
Like PTO is a great one.
I have people who, you know,before when we would travel for
three months or whatever, wewould rent out our house while
we traveled.
And just that$2,500 a month,like it covered the whole cost
of our trip.
And

Skyler (16:13):
And it's like, why wouldn't you do it?
Like if it's free?
Essentially

Yeah.
And I know people who.
that on, on both sides.
They rent out their house Andthen they do like trusted house
sitters.
So They they're getting

Skyler (16:25):
they're making money.

and they're staying for free.

Skyler (16:29):
Yeah.
That's, that's a, that's aninteresting way.
Then you then you're like, whyam I even working?
Like, I'll just do this forever.
But the another thing that couldbe cheap is you could be a
tourist in your own town.
That's a thought that came to mymind is like, you already live
there so you don't have to payfor a hotel, but maybe you never
actually see the sites in yourown area.

We did a summer that we took off and, um,
it was a few years ago and Wedid a we called it Daily
Adventure.
So with all, all of our fivekids, every day we left the
house and did some sort oflittle adventure.
Sometimes it was just like apark or a playground or a local
hike or, yeah, local touristattraction.
We live in this amazing touristarea, but.

(17:07):
We were so busy with just likelife and work.
We didn't do that stuff veryoften and it was so cool.
So over the summer We did 90different little adventures with
our kids and it was amazing.

Skyler (17:18):
Yeah.
And that's, that's more memoriesthan any sort of job and trying
to fit stuff in right after workcould fit in.
So like there's, there's, somuch extra benefit to that.
And one question that I keephaving coming to my mind is, do
you like never want to go backto work?
Or does this make you maybeenjoy work even more when you
take these breaks and thenyou're able to go back to
something that you want tocontribute to?

You know, I was actually, I was talking to a
really good friend yesterday onthe phone.
She called me because she waslike, oh my gosh, you.
You, I, I've heard you.
say this so many times, and Ithought this would never be true
for me, but it was a hundredpercent true for me.
She took two years off, left herprofession and thought that she
was like, I thought I had likethe dream job.
I thought like, I would never beable to replace something like,

(18:00):
this.
And she's like, and I just tookanother job offer And it's so
much better.
like, it's more money.
I negotiated a full month offevery year, like, like better
work life balance, moremeaningful projects.
I was telling you, there'ssomething about.
I live in Montana, so we have alot of forests.
There's something about when aforest fire comes through and

(18:22):
you remove all of thoseestablished trees and those
established plants that in ayear or two the new growth that
starts to come out

Skyler (18:32):
Mm-hmm.

insane.
It is so aggressive and vibrantand healthy and like that.
If you were to plant that littletree in an established forest.
Yeah, there's just not enoughresources.
There's not enough

Skyler (18:45):
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.

There's so much competition that it can be
really tough.
When we're in our jobs and we'rein our routines, like it's kind
of like that established forest,like it's using up all of the
light and resources that arethere.
It's hard to create somethingnew and exciting.
Sometimes you just need to like,create the space

Skyler (19:02):
Mm-hmm.

open, it up.
Do you have all the light andall the water and all the
nutrients and Yeah.
People come back excited andlike, I, I remember when I was
younger, remember thinking thatpeople in their forties were
boring.
Like, like they just, like, theywere I don't know, they seemed
kind of lame, like, uninspiredand uninteresting and like, they

(19:24):
didn't have any dreams or anyexcitement about

Skyler (19:26):
You just go to work and come home.
Yeah.

And then it got to my forties and I was
like, oh, it, it's not thatwe're boring, we're tired, we're
tired, we're overwhelmed, we'rebusy.
if you take that away, you startto roll back the clock.
And

Skyler (19:45):
Hmm.

and that excitement and that energy and
that vision, that creativity, itstarts to regrow because now
like you've got enough sunlightand

Skyler (19:54):
Mm-hmm.

to, to have that like come out in a big way.

Skyler (19:58):
Yeah, that's, that's a really interesting take because
I, I thought about like mywife's plants where it'll start
growing and growing and then shesuddenly needs to cut off a big
chunk, put it in a differentpot, and let it restart, and
then suddenly that is growinglike crazy.
Um, so that's, that's a reallyinteresting idea because even
sometimes in your job you mightbe stuck salary wise.
You might be stuck progressionwise, and you're like, why won't

(20:18):
they gimme a raise?
Why there's no next step for me.
And then you just move over to adifferent company in the same
position.
You're like, how am I being paid15,$20,000 more a year when my
company couldn't seem to figureit out?
So those sort of things whereyou just clear the path, you'll
find opportunities again.

It's such an important part of, of why many
retirements improve yourfinancial trajectory.
I.

Skyler (20:39):
Mm-hmm.

they give you the best chance of being fairly
compensated and

Skyler (20:44):
Yeah.

that lifetime earning potential, which is
enormous.
You know, one example I had afriend, uh, who took a year off,
came back to a new job with a50% raise, which sounds crazy,
but the reason it was crazy isthat he had been at the previous
company for 15 years.

Skyler (21:03):
Wow.
So you'd think you'd have a veryhigh salary?
Yeah.

a long

Skyler (21:08):
Mm-hmm.

So,'cause I'm kind of a numbers geek.
Um, if you think about, let'ssay he was making a hundred and
he came back at he was beingunderpaid by 50,000 a

Skyler (21:16):
Mm-hmm.
For a long time.
Yeah.

maybe that was eight years.
So he was underpaid, 400,000even if you took out a hundred
thousand for his miniretirement, which it did not
cost that much.
But even if you took that out,that's 300,000.
Invested when you're like 37,40, we're talking a million
extra

Skyler (21:37):
Mm-hmm.

in retirement.
He would be a million dollarsricher if he would've taken many
retirements,

Skyler (21:42):
Yeah.
Wow.
That's, that's the math,

on the

Skyler (21:45):
that's, that should be eye-opening for everybody.
that and that's kinda why I'mlike, it's time for me to leave
my last job because I was, I washitting that ceiling and I was
like, now's a great time for meto make the to a career that I'm
maybe a little more interestedin.
So using this timing, I'm, I'm,I'm sure I heard you on some
other podcast years ago, andmaybe that's what planted the
seed, so thank you.
For my previous self for havingthese ideas.

(22:07):
So, but I kinda wanna talk topeople about how they can craft
these retirements.
For me right now, it's thattransition period, but for other
people it might be that morerelaxation period or being a
tourist in their town.
And this comes from chapter twoof your book,

Mm-hmm.

Skyler (22:20):
there's some specific tools that you give people in
there.
How can someone begin to crafttheir ideal day?

Yeah, this is one.
You know, there's a lot it, it'sfunny, people kind of fall on
two end ends of the spectrumwhen it, comes to mini
retirements.
They either have a thousandideas and they want to do all of

Skyler (22:39):
Mm-hmm.

first mini retirement, which is a disaster.
Or they're so burned out thatthey can't even imagine.
How they would spend this time.
They can't even imagine likewhat this would look like.
So I encourage people to startwith, what's your ideal day?
What's your ideal week?
If you could craft your schedulewhere it's exactly what you
need.

(23:00):
what you want right now, likewhat feels

Skyler (23:03):
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.

feels important?
like you're like, I'm superburned out.
It's very urgent that I, youknow, I take care of this.
Or my kids are young and youknow, they're be going to junior
high soon.
Like it's really urgent that wedo a cool road trip now

Skyler (23:20):
Mm-hmm.

hoping in four or five years they're still

Skyler (23:23):
Yeah.

about it.

Skyler (23:24):
Mm-hmm.

Um.
And so thinking through whatwould that look like?
And it can, it can kind of helpinspire what maybe this mini
retirement could look like.
And for a lot of people, like a,a, fun bonus of this is practice
that ideal day or week or yearduring their mini retirement.

(23:46):
And they develop this newperspective and this new
confidence

Skyler (23:50):
Hmm.

when they go back into their next job, they
know what they're looking for.
They know what they want, theyknow what actually matters to
them, and they have theconfidence to ask for it.

Skyler (24:00):
Yeah, because they've built up that routine and that
consistency of saying, no, this,this one part of my mini
retirement where I had everyThursday, I always did this
thing I want every Thursday off.
Like, and that's, that'ssomething they ask for.
And the employer's like, sure,it doesn't really matter.
You don't, Like, you can get thework done in four days.
Like it's, that's okay.
And they just wouldn't even havethought to ask it before.
That's a That's a perfectexample.

(24:20):
And for me it's, it's workingremote.
And I know that's maybe thecliche right now, but when my
wife and I moved my job, I told'em like, Hey, I have to go
remote or I'm gonna find a newjob.
There was just wasn't an optionotherwise, but that's allowed me
to realize, hey, I, I likeworking remote again.
We got a puppy, so now I havethat to take care of and keep me
company, but going forward, I'mlike, I don't really, it, it
works really well for me and itcan work really well for the

(24:42):
employer as well.
So those sort of things, just asyou do'em, if you didn't take
the mini retirement, you wouldnever realize.
That there's any sort ofalternative.
Um, one idea That I also, I, Ireally clinging to this one as
well.
My wife and I will have maybeevery three to six months just
declutter days where we'll putone room on the calendar and
we'll just go through that roomand say, what can we get rid of?

(25:03):
And it's always kinda weirdbecause you're like, how did
this thing survive the lastdeclutter day?
And now it's here getting thrownaway.
it's like just the passage oftime.
You're like, yep, that's gonenow

Yep.

Skyler (25:12):
have to worry about it.
Even though three to six monthsago we were like oh, that's
still so valuable, but.
Without doing that regularly,there's no, there's no getting
rid of stuff.
It just keeps piling up.
How can decluttering help?
And I know it's maybe off theband of taking time off work,
but it's something that canstill be very impactful for
this.
How can that help in our lives?

No, I mean I, when I was 32, me and my spouse
at the time took a full yearoff, and one of the projects
during that was decluttering ourhouse.
We had gone from one kiddo tofive two years, and our house
looked like a

Skyler (25:48):
Uh, yeah, we, we got a puppy and our, our stuff
accumulated.
I can't imagine that many.

was, we were drowning.
We

Skyler (25:54):
Mm-hmm.

against stuff Um, and it took us, honestly, it
probably took us three monthsand we got rid of 50% of our
possessions.
this can be amazing for a miniretirement.
'cause talking about the guiltof like not being able to do
something alongside your nine tofive if you wanna go through
your entire house.
Item by item and get rid of halfof it.

(26:16):
That is so difficult to do after

Skyler (26:18):
Mm-hmm.

Like, I'm not saying it's impossible, but if
you have any other commitments,if you have kids or family, you
help or volunteer stuff orfriends, like if you got,

Skyler (26:27):
It's never gonna get done.
Mm-hmm.

else going on.
'cause it's not just a timecommitment, It's emotional
energy.

Skyler (26:34):
Mm-hmm.

energy.
like it's very taxing, buttalking about many retirements
being a capital investment, ifyou take that month or three
months and you get this massiveproject done, then you can
schedule one day every sixmonths

Skyler (26:48):
Mm-hmm.

one rube and keep caught up on things like
you can maintain that, andthat's one of the great things
about many retirements.
You can build habits or you cando this investment that then you
can just maintain

Skyler (27:00):
Mm-hmm.

to work.

Skyler (27:01):
Yeah, which is those things that you begin to realize
are valuable and then you just,you, you schedule in, you
program it in your, your worklife balance is a whole lot
easier because you took thatbreak to, to reset because yes,
I'm sure everybody listening,like, if you live in America,
you probably have more stuffthan you need.
I think that's just anunfortunate side effect of
consumerism, but taking thatbreak to get rid of things will

(27:23):
be one, you'll, you'll realizehow much space you actually
have.
And I'm, I'm feeling that rightnow.
We just cleaned out this office.
I'm standing in.
And I'm like, oh, that corner'snow empty.
Like I can, I can put a fanthere or something instead of
just boxes.
So you don't realize those sortof things.
You get space back, you get timeback.
Whereas like we, we could not gothrough everything, like you
said, if we were working andjust after work, because that's

(27:45):
the easiest thing for us to kickdown the road.
And it may not be cleaning outyour garage or cleaning out your
house, it may be some sort ofother thing.
It may be finally making just atrip to the mountains nearby
that you always seem to pushback that um, you could.
Finally fix in and put into yourschedule.
And I did have this idea come tomy mind of getting clarity

(28:06):
around what we really want to doand kind of identifying our
ideal day and preparing for amini retirement.
And I kind of thought of it as amini mini retirement.
where we take maybe a week offor four days to just to just sit
and think about it instead oftrying to do everything.
Because even just thinking aboutit could be something that we
tend to kick down the road.
Would it be useful for somebodyto just, it's kind of like a
retreat almost.

I highly recommend this because, for
singles, but, for marriedcouples, you know, whenever I
work with clients one-on-one, wedo, you know, I send them with
this, like a lot of this lifeplanning homework and I'm like,
try to get outta your house.
Like

Skyler (28:44):
Yeah.

out for four hours, for eight hours, go away
to a hotel for a couple nights,because these are conversations
that are really hard to havewhile you are

Skyler (28:54):
Mm-hmm.

While you're trying to get

Skyler (28:57):
Mm-hmm.

like it's so tough when you're all of your
bedding like you need.
you need.
time and clarity to really thinkdeeply about this and think
deeply in a way that willmotivate action.
Not just like, oh yeah, that's acool idea, and then move on to
like a hundred, the hundred

Skyler (29:16):
Yeah.
All the rest of the stuff.
Mm-hmm.

And so it's, it's so important, you know,
for, to do it every six months,every 12 months recalibrate

Skyler (29:25):
Mm-hmm.

and to spend, invest that time.
You know, I think it's worth thetime.
It's worth the money that itcosts to, to reimagine what you
want the next year or five yearsto look like.

Skyler (29:38):
Yeah.
And even like you might say, oh,we'll do it this weekend, but
weekends have plans, likeweekends have volunteer
opportunities.
Maybe they have church andthings like that.
But if you commit to even justtaking maybe two days off work
and then committing your weekendto it, those four days could be
like cheap, easy, and like yousaid, go somewhere else outside
of your home because there'sgonna be distractions.
You're gonna be sitting thereand be like, oh, I can tidy this

(29:59):
up real quick when maybe you,that is what you need to do, but
it's not what you need to doright now

Yep.

Skyler (30:04):
and build your plan.
but I kind of wanna, let's,let's maybe celebrate many
retirements here for a minute.
You're kind of the championbehind them.
So I want to hear a little bitabout some of what you've done
when I was.
Uh, scanning the book andreading through it..
I also saw that you did 10 weeksin 10 national parks.
My wife and I we love nationalparks.
That's why we're going to anational Reserve tomorrow.
So I'm excited to hear thisstory a little bit.
What is it like to take thatmuch time off just to explore

(30:27):
national parks?

I mean, it's amazing like national

Skyler (30:33):
rub it in, just brag about it.

it is like those kinds of road trips are,
aren't something that.
You want to rush because that'sthe

Skyler (30:44):
Mm-hmm.

of it.
They're slow and relaxed andyou're present and you're just
appreciating the small,beautiful things.
Um, if you go to like a superrelaxed place and you're like,
we're gonna see the all ofGlacier National Park in four
hours and then we're gonna catcha flight outta

Skyler (31:02):
Mm-hmm.

you're, missing like 80% of the magic
and having that time with ourkiddos like.
Um, like I mentioned, myyoungest is nine right now.
My oldest is about to turn 18.
So we're in a season of lifewith like a lot of junior high
and high schoolers.
But when we did that trip, Ithink my youngest was two or
three, and then my oldest wasmaybe 10.

(31:26):
And so like all of my kiddoswere little and

Skyler (31:29):
Mm-hmm.

was magical and everything was fun.
And they wanted to be with us 24hours a day, like right

Skyler (31:35):
Yeah.

we did it in a popup camper.
Um, and just getting to explore.
we did it out west and the parksare so different

Skyler (31:44):
Mm-hmm.

Like you get the

Skyler (31:46):
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Mm-hmm.

you know, Yellowstone to Zion, the Grand
Canyon, Jo Joshua Tree, Sequoia,like, Yosemite,

Skyler (31:58):
Mm-hmm.

they're just all so massively different and
epic and incredible.

Skyler (32:04):
Yeah.

I remember being on that trip and saying,
If If we had footage from Marsand it looked like these 10
national parks, everyone wouldwant to go.

Skyler (32:19):
Mm-hmm.

that's the most incredible thing I've ever
seen.
I absolutely have to go there.
Like we have to, we have to makeit there.
Like,

Skyler (32:25):
Mm-hmm.

so mind blowing'cause it's so incredible
and I'm like, can just drivethere like

Skyler (32:30):
Yeah.

our country.

Skyler (32:31):
Mm-hmm.

in America, you can just drive and be there
in a day and experience thisthing.
So.
Yeah, and it's a whole differentvibe.
Like you're disconnected, youdon't have

Skyler (32:41):
Mm-hmm.

you don't have cell phone service.
Like just have to be reallypresent and it's, it's such a
gift, I think, to our kids to beable to interact with them in
that

Skyler (32:55):
Mm-hmm.

We're not rushing, We're not getting ready
for school.
I'm not a whole bunch of There'snot all this work demand, like
to

Skyler (33:03):
Mm-hmm.

and have fun, and to be engaged and have
those, let your kids experiencethat best version of you.

Skyler (33:13):
Yeah, that's, that's fantastic.
And, and my wife and I, we movedfrom Utah and before we moved we
wanted to make sure we got allfive of the national parks in
Utah.
And there was so many times I,we've told this probably more
than you can count on two handsthat we've said.
How are there people that havelived in Utah that have never
been to one of these nationalparks because.
They're, like you said, they'reall so different.

(33:33):
Capital Reef is just crazydifferent.
You have that fruit, uh, cityright in the middle that's just
super green.
Uh, arches is some of thecraziest landscape you've ever
seen.
And then you drive, what, like30 minutes to Canyon Lands And
it's entirely different.
Like it's, it's all so crazy.
And then you go to it Zion, andyou're Like there's there's all
these cliffs that you just can'teven fathom how tall they are.
and yeah, it's uh, insane.

(33:55):
So I don't know how people don'tsee the national park, so I was
really excited that you did thattrip.

a pitch for Canyon Lands.
Honestly, I like Canyon Landsmore than the Grand Canyon,

Skyler (34:06):
Hmm.
That's, I, yeah.
My wife and I, we just got backfrom, I don't know if you know
where White Rim Road is inCanyon but we did, it's a
hundred mile road and we bikedit over three days.

my gosh.

Skyler (34:16):
Um, so we were just down there, back country camping for
three days.
Like no service, no nothing,just the stars and wind and, and
random thunderstorms.
and it's just, it's crazy totake it all in because.
You have those sort of thingshappen in your day-to-day life,
and you're like, why is itraining so hard?
You just get kind of frustratedat it when there's all these
different curve balls, but whenyou're just out there enjoying
nature and you're disconnected,it's, it's a different feeling,

And, and those are the things.
it's, so, one of the reasons Ilove travel, slow travel,
especially on many retirements,is it's so different

Skyler (34:47):
mm-hmm.

so memorable.

Skyler (34:50):
Yeah.

asked me, okay, a year ago today, what did
you do on that day?
And I'm like, I've, I have noidea what I did 365 days ago,
like it was just a normal dayand I was here

Skyler (34:59):
Mm-hmm.

did normal things, like thinking about, I
remember specific days in CanyonLands.
I

Skyler (35:06):
Mm-hmm.

things in arches.
And the thing that I love aboutmany retirements is when you're
80, these are gonna be thehighlights of your life.
These

Skyler (35:15):
Mm-hmm.

you're gonna look back.
And just the of those memoriesis going, like, it has compound
growth.

Skyler (35:23):
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.

interest in, in the value of these memories.
Um, and yeah, they just becomethe highlights.

Skyler (35:30):
Yeah, and this wasn't necessarily like a full mini
retirement, but even like a, acase to taking longer periods of
time off.
My wife and I and everyone onthe podcast has heard this
several times, but we spent 11days in Hawaii and it was slow
travel.
It was.
Hey, what do we want to, what dowe wanna do today?
We weren't quite sure.
We found some things online and,and went and did it.
We had maybe one thing bookedand just to be able to sit there

(35:52):
and We were able to take in theculture and the locals a whole
lot more than rushing to andfrom a, a big chain hotel or
something like that.
We were able to like, we stayedon the, uh, east side of Maui,
which is this tiny little towncalled Ha.
Where everything closes at like5:30 PM We didn't realize that
when we got in, we were like,where are we gonna go eat?
But

Yeah.

Skyler (36:12):
everything is like, just real secluded and quiet and
those sort of things.
like you said, that memorycompounds, we remember it all
the time.
We think about it all the time.
And when we're 10, 20 years fromnow, we're still gonna remember
it.
I'm thinking now about peoplewho are just beginning their
careers.
Maybe they're not in a positionwhere they have the.
The power or the knowledge to beable to move careers.
or move jobs or to be able toask for something like this off,

(36:33):
how can they get started?
Maybe preparing themselves for,after working maybe for a few
years to to take the leap and doone of these?
I.

Yeah, I think just having.
The intention and the plan, knowit.
Like I said, it doesn't have tobe super expensive.
If you're at the beginning ofyour career, 200 bucks a month,
save 300 bucks a month, startsetting it aside.
'cause there's

Skyler (36:57):
Hmm.

different ways that we can get a mini
retirement.
You could do it in between jobs,you can negotiate it off.
And I wouldn't discount that ifyou've been at your job for even
18 months, two years, you mightbe able to negotiate a month

Skyler (37:11):
Hmm

Um, you know.
Or, and I'll finish this thoughtloop or like, something random
happens, usually something badand you're like, surprise, I'm
not going to work today.
Um, and so

Skyler (37:22):
Yeah.
You get laid off.
Yeah.

people to like take, to plan like a mini
retirement, go bag for that.
But in negotiating this timeoff, you know, you can negotiate
a month off and let's say youhave some PTO, you know, I, I
encourage people, create astory, create this narrative
that's positive,

Skyler (37:39):
Mm-hmm.

that's interesting, that's specific,
and ideally a one-time event.
that could sound like go to yourboss and you're like, Hey, so
I've got two weeks of PTO.
But my mom, when she retiredher, my dad always planned to
like bike through Croatia for amonth.
Uh, my dad's passed away, nowshe's retiring this year for her

(38:01):
60th birthday.
So very

Skyler (38:04):
Mm-hmm.

time.
I would love to be able

Skyler (38:06):
Mm-hmm.

(38:30):
Mm-hmm.

it.
Here's how we're gonna coverthings.
But it's not like if you createthat compelling narrative,

Skyler (38:37):
Mm-hmm.

people get yeses a lot more, a lot more
than they expect.

Skyler (38:43):
Well, yeah, and if you come with saying, here's my
problem and here's the solutionfor you, like, you don't make
them.
Like, you don't just come insaying, Hey, I got two weeks of
PTO, but I need an extra twoweeks to go to Croatia.
And that's all you say.
Like it's an easy No, but like Ilove your, create a positive
narrative around it.
Create this kind of compellingstory that your boss is gonna be
like, yeah, I wanna be a personthat helps enable that.

(39:03):
'cause that's awesome.
So I, I love that kinda getsmore people smiling and thinking
and enjoying this potentialmemory versus just thinking
about the doom and gloom of youmissing four weeks straight at
work, which your work will befine.
So I think that's an awesome.
Like kind of way to push forthese sort of things.
Even I, like, even if you'reearly in your career, if you've
only worked a little bit, maybethat's that's your chance to

(39:23):
take a break and they see thevalue in you continuing in the
company and they don't wannalose you and so they they let
you.
take this break.
But that's fantastic.
This has been a greatconversation.
I'm looking through my questionsand we really talked about a lot
here today.
I.
This has been a fantasticinterview.
Um, thank you for coming on.
I got two final questions foryou as we wrap up here.
The first one is, how can peoplefind you online and connect with

(39:44):
you?
But then the second one, to giveyou a second to think about it
is what's one thing you wouldtell yourself 10 years ago about
many retirements?
But first, how can people findyou?

Yeah, so the book, uh, will be out September
9th.
It's called Retire Often and youcan find it everywhere.
And my website's retireoften.com.
So you know, there I've got somefree worksheets, actually goes
through some of this lifeplanning stuff that we talked
through.
Um.
But yeah, individual coaching,group coaching, a podcast, like
all, all the things you needfor,

Skyler (40:12):
Awesome.

for this is there, and on and on.
Social.
I'm at Jillian John's root.
Um, and then what I would tellmyself 10 years ago, let's see,
I'm 42, so I'd be 32.
Um, I might even do 20 yearsago, Is that okay?
Can

Skyler (40:24):
Yeah, go for it.
Yeah.
If someone's like just startingout or, mm-hmm.

Um, so I was 22, like I had this idea, I, I
had this idea when I was 19.
But I, would encourage, like,and I've done a, I've done a
dozen of these, so like, Iwasn't a slacker, but I would
still encourage myself, like, itin.
Make this part of the plan.
Don't make

Skyler (40:47):
Hmm.

maybe it'll happen or if there's an
opportunity, make this part ofthe career plan.
Make this part of the financialplan, because now I see.
All of the benefits that I'vereceived financially and
professionally from this, and Iwould be like double down on it,
like let's do twice as muchbecause for me it's always been

(41:11):
a rich and positive outcome in adozen different ways, but
massively improved thetrajectory of my life.

Skyler (41:20):
Well, yeah, that's, that's a powerful testimony for
these many retirements.
That's fantastic.
and I and I think about it now,I'm thinking about this break
that I'm taking to changecareers.

Mm-hmm.

Skyler (41:28):
planning it six months ago.
We were able to.
Do one of our budgets one monthon just my wife's income to
practice it.
And then we realized it wasn'tgonna be that bad.
But now I'm starting to think,Hey, we're about a year and a
couple months out from my wife'scontract coming up.

Mm-hmm.

Skyler (41:41):
in something for her and see what we can do there.
So

Yeah.

Skyler (41:44):
have to report back on the podcast in a year or so and
see what we ended up doing.
But if we start planning for itnow, it should be a whole lot
easier to get that.
Yes.
so

Yep.

Skyler (41:51):
this has been a fantastic interview.
This is definitely one of thelonger ones, but this has been
great.
There's so much great stuff inhere about people.
Taking time off work.
Um, thank you so much for comingon.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Skyler (42:12):
Thank you so much to Jillian for coming on the show.
That was fantastic.
And that's one of the longestinterviews we've ever had here
on Money Talk, and it's one ofthose conversations that comes
so naturally because it's soexciting and engaging.
So I'm gonna keep this a littlebit shorter here today after the
interview, since we've alreadygone fairly long with that
wonderful conversation.
And let's just jump into themoney talking points.

(42:32):
The first one is, how can youtake a mini retirement?
Well, we mentioned a few optionsin the interview.
You could schedule it into youryear.
You could ask for extended PTO.
If you're contract based, youcould include time in between
your contracts.
So if you have a two yearcontract ending like my wife
does, maybe she doesn't starther next contract until a month
after her one ends, so that shenaturally has time within there.

(42:54):
You could quit a job and thenwait to find a new job.
Just look for time where you maynot be working and fit it in
there.
But I also like the idea aboutbeing intentional about it.
Schedule it into your work year,schedule it into your contracts.
Being intentional about it, Ithink is going to allow you to
enjoy it even more.
It doesn't have to be superhard.
I'm doing one right now withouteven realizing I was doing one.

(43:15):
I'm studying for my certifiedfinancial planner exam, and I
quit my job over a month ago.
At this point, if you have thesavings, take time in between
those jobs instead of calling itunemployed.
Call it FunEmployed.
That's a word my wife and I liketo throw around when we're
between jobs.
Is we're experiencing funemployment where you're in
between jobs and having funwhile unemployed, but let me

(43:35):
know what's coming to your mind.
What's a way that you can take amini retirement?
Of course, my contactinformation is in the show
notes, and I would love to hearfrom one of you on this, whether
it's via email or checking meout on social media.
I.
Let's move right along into thesecond money talking point here.
What do you love to do?
And this is gonna be meoutlining a little bit of my
ideal day and maybe helping youfigure out what could your ideal

(43:56):
day, week, and mini retirementlook like?
So for me, I like to hang outwith my wife and dog.
My ideal day includes waking upearly, walking my dog, going
somewhere fun, playing videogames, and enjoying a nice
home-cooked dinner.
What does your ideal day looklike for you?
If you aren't sure, this couldbe a great chance to take a
mini, mini retirement.
Take a few days off where youfocus on outlining your day,

(44:17):
figure out things you enjoydoing.
Figure out your ideal week.
Figure out your ideal month sothat you could take a real mini
retirement in the future.
Like I said, my ideal day wouldstart very early.
I'm a morning person and maybethat's something that you know
you would not like.
You have to wait until you wakeup and sleep in without an
alarm.
I hope you enjoy that because Iknow I don't.

(44:39):
So what do you love to do?
How could a mini retirement helpyou focus on that?
How could you take a break fromwork to focus on something that
you like to do instead offeeling like you have to stop
work altogether?
I think that is the incrediblemindset shift that many
retirements can have on you isthat you can shift from feeling
like you have to retire and stopwork altogether to taking breaks

(45:00):
from work.
What if you don't like doingenough stuff to fill the rest of
your life?
That's where a mini retirementcan be great.
It can give you just enough timeto do what you really, really
want to do, and then you can goback to enjoying work and
something meaningful.
So if you enjoy your job anddon't really see yourself
retiring, this could be a greatway to even prolong that career
further.
You take a whole month off andnow suddenly you're working till

(45:22):
you're 70 or 75 because youenjoy it so much.
But you're making sure to staygrounded and take sizable breaks
with often mini retirements.
It's such a great idea.
I love it.
And I think I'll continuepreaching this from the
mountaintops to my friends whenthey talk about getting burnt
out at work or they're tired oftheir job, take a month off and
guess what?

(45:42):
You are likely going to comeback and make more money, which
is what we're gonna talk aboutin this final money talking
point.
What would it look like for youto take a mini retirement?
For me right now, it's someregular studying for the CFP
exam and working on my podcast,and I am enjoying it a ton.
It's so nice to not have to crameverything in around a work
schedule, and it's nice beingable to schedule out my own

(46:04):
days.
I don't have to ask somebody forapproval to move my schedule
around and take a day off foryou.
It could look like going on awalk every morning instead of a
grueling commute.
It could also look like a nearterm pay raise, and honestly,
this is such an amazing benefit.
Not only do you get time off toenjoy your life.
But you could also go back to ajob that pays you more because

(46:24):
someone's probably gonna pay youmore to come back to work.
Unfortunate that so often youhave to find a new job to get
paid more.
But it's how it works.
Most companies do not paytenured employees what they're
worth.
And I bet the vast majority ofpeople leave their jobs due to
crummy pay.
Uh, many retirement can have somany amazing benefits and just
think one of them could be moremoney.
You mean to tell me I can taketime off work?

(46:46):
And make more money.
It's so backwards to think aboutit in that way that it leads you
to more money.
But I like Jillian's story aboutthe person that she was working
with that was so underpaid thatthey could have spent well over
a hundred thousand dollars onmini retirements and still come
out ahead if they had done themmore often.
I.
So what are you leaving on thetable by not taking mini
retirements?

(47:06):
I'm gonna leave it right thereon that final question, and I
hope this conversation gave youthe permission to even think
about taking a mini retirement.
We talked about how it doesn'thave to be this massive life
altering event.
It can be as simple as planninga gap between contracts,
negotiating a longer breakbetween jobs, or even using some
stacked PTO.
And honestly, I've realizedduring this episode that I'm on

(47:26):
one right now.
Leaving my job, studying for theCFP and giving the space to live
my life a little bitdifferently.
It's been phenomenal.
I'm walking my dog more,spending more time with my wife.
We're planning spontaneousmidweek adventures.
It's been pretty great.
So let me ask you, what doesyour ideal day look like?
How could a mini retirement giveyou the space to explore that?
Be a full month off, or evenjust a few days to step back and

(47:49):
ask, what do I really want to dowith my time?
And don't forget, there's evenfinancial upside here.
I'm not just talking about goingout and spending money on these
many retirements.
You could go back to making moremoney after your mini retirement
by switching jobs and finallygetting paid what you are worth.
So yeah, take the break and itmight actually help your bank
account too.
So again, I'll leave you withthis final question.

(48:10):
What are you leaving on thetable?
By not taking mini retirements?
Let me know what ideas come toyour mind and maybe even what
your ideal mini retirement wouldlook like.
I'd love to hear from you andyou can find my contact
information in the show notes.
And thank you for listening totoday's episode.
The best way to stay up to dateand connected with all Things
Money Talk is to subscribe tothe podcast and sign up for my
email list.
Head over to Money talk.show andsubmit your name and email right

(48:32):
there on the homepage.
You can also use the contactpage on my website to send me
any questions you might have,and who knows?
You'll likely hear it right hereon the podcast and I'll be able
to answer the exact question youhave.
Remember, the best way to learnfrom today's episode is to go
and have a money talk abouttoday's topic with a fellow
money buddy.
Thank you for listening to thisweek's episode of Money Talk.
I'm your host, Skyler Fleming.
Have a great week.

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The Benefit of Taking Mini-Retirements Often with Jillian Johnsrud - 188

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Benefit of Taking Mini-Retirements Often with Jillian Johnsrud - 188