April 3, 2025 • 19 mins
In this episode of Money Talk with Tiff, host Tiffany Grant dives deep into the world of crypto taxes with special guest Janna Scott. If you've ever wondered about the tax implications of trading or holding cryptocurrency, this episode is a must-listen!
Takeaways
- In this episode, we dove deep into the fun and sometimes tricky world of crypto taxes, covering everything from capital gains to income and how they affect your wallet.
- Janna Scott, our guest guru, explained that short term capital gains tax rates can range from 28% to 37%, which is a big bite out of your profits if you're flipping crypto like pancakes!
- We learned that everything is reportable when it comes to crypto transactions, regardless of how small, so don’t go hiding those pennies under your mattress!
- Janna also shared some eye-opening insights about the IRS's ability to track crypto transactions through exchanges, so think twice before assuming your crypto is anonymous and safe!
- The episode highlighted the importance of keeping track of your transactions, especially if you're trading regularly, as neglecting this can lead to some serious tax headaches later on.
- Finally, we touched on the upcoming Defi Tax product, designed to help crypto users easily navigate their tax obligations without losing their minds or their money!
Companies mentioned in this episode
For more updates on Defi Tax and crypto tax solutions, follow them on social media:
- Instagram, X, Facebook, LinkedIn: @DefiTax
- Website: DefiTax.us
Stay connected with Money Talk with Tiff for more insightful episodes every Thursday. Visit MoneyTalkwithT.com and follow Tiff on all your favorite social media platforms @MoneyTalkWithT.
Copyright 2025 Tiffany Grant
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
Podcorn - https://podcorn.com/privacy
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You know what it is. That'sright. It's time to talk money with
your money nerd and financialcoach. Now tighten those purse strings
and open those ears. It's theMoney Talk with Tiff podcast.
Hey, everyone. I am so excitedbecause I have Yana Scott on the
line and Yana's here to talkto us about something we've never
(00:22):
talked about on the podcastbefore. I know you're like, tiffany,
is that even possible? Yes, itis. Today we are talking about crypto
taxes. So we've talked aboutcrypto before a few times. We've
talked about taxes before afew times, but we've never talked
about crypto taxes. So. Hey,Yana, how are you?
I'm good. How are you?
I'm doing pretty good. Prettygood. I'm excited about this conversation
(00:44):
because I know a few people inthe audience probably have questions
about, you know, they get,they're getting into to crypto and
trading and they're like,okay, what does this mean for my
taxes? So let's hop right in.First and foremost, what would cause
something to be taxable whenit comes to crypto? Because I know
everybody's on like, you know,the, the little platforms and stuff
(01:06):
like Coinbase and so on and soforth, and they're just having fun
buying and selling and doingall types of stuff. But what causes
it to be taxable?
So crypto is taxable invarious different income categories.
There is capital gains, shortterm, and long term, and then there
(01:29):
is income. So those are thethree main categories of, of crypto
taxation. Now, cryptotaxation, capital gains, short term,
and long term fall intodifferent categories. So short term
is anything you held under ayear, which honestly, most of the
time that's the case forcrypto because people buy and sell
(01:50):
consistently with crypto beingso volatile. But there are some people
who've held crypto, theybought it back in 14 and they're
still holding it. So thatwould be a long term everything over
a year and a day. Now the taxbrackets for long term is 20%. So
you make, you make 100,000.You have long term, you have twenty,
(02:12):
twenty thousand dollar tax taxtaxable event, right? You have to
pay taxes, $20,000 in tax.Now, short term is a little bit different.
Short term ranges from 28 to37%. So if you have 100,000, you
can pay between 28,000 to37,000 in taxes. And that percentage
depends on someone's overallincome tax bracket. So high, high
(02:34):
income earners will be on thehigher end, low income Earners will
be on the shorter end. Nowthe, the income and I'll go into
which, which transaction typesare what in a minute. Income is.
Well, what it says, it'sincome. Income is simply whatever
(02:56):
you make, whether it is. Well,we'll go into the details right now,
whether it is you receivingcrypto from someone else, whether
it is you are mining. Ifyou're mining, that's considered
income or you get paid forsomething such as, you know, a lot
(03:16):
of influencers, they get paidwith crypto. That is ordinary income.
It goes into your ordinaryincome tax bracket. The more you
make, the higher your taxrate. We all know this. Then we have
the capital gains events. Andso for capital gains, the main transaction
types are obviously sell. Yousell, you have a capital gains event.
(03:37):
Let's say you buy somethingfor $2,000, it grows to 5,000, you
sell it, you have $3,000 ofcapital gain. Again, long term or
short term, depends on howlong you've held it. Trades. Trades
are capital gains events. Longterm or short term. When you take
your bitcoin and you trade itfor Ethereum and bridging is also
(03:59):
capital gains event. If youhave minted an NFT and you send it
to somebody else or you, yousell it, that's also capital gains
event. Long term, short term.
Gotcha, gotcha. So let's backup a little bit because you were
throwing out a lot of cryptoterms which I'm familiar with, but
the audience may not befamiliar with. One thing that you
(04:22):
threw out there was mining.Somebody might be like, well, how
do I know if I'm mining? Whatis that?
Well, mining is my son, my. Ihave a 15 year old who loves to play
Minecraft and so I tried toexplain mining to him. It's like
in Minecraft, right, you'redigging up blocks and some of the
(04:42):
blocks have diamonds in it,some of the blocks have gold in it.
And so basically you're miningblocks on the blockchain and you
will receive crypto inexchange. And so it's really what
it is. You're putting in workto, to earn something and that is
(05:02):
always income. Okay, now youdon't put in work when you actually
buy crypto and you just let itsit there. That's called passive
income because you're notactually working for it. But in mining,
you're physically, physicallymining blocks on the blockchain and
you get reimbursed for this.And so that is income.
Gotcha, gotcha. Thank you forthat explanation. I know that probably
(05:25):
helped a Few people out. Allright, so let's get back into the
tax part though. So I know,for instance, I have quite a few
friends where they're justlike, oh, I just want to get into
crypto. I just want to buysome Bitcoin, whatever, whatever.
And not really thinking aboutthe tax implications. And so what
if there's somebody listeningand they're like, okay, well, I know
(05:48):
I bought and sold last year,but I didn't keep track of anything
like as far as how long I heldit or any of that information. What
do they need to do now?
So, and that's, that's themain reason why, why I created Defi
Tax. There's products on themarket, obviously, everybody knows
(06:10):
it. They're endorsed bymultiple of the exchanges. The exchanges
themselves at this point areoffering reports that show a capital
gain and loss event about. SoI've been in accounting for years.
I worked for the government, Ileft the government, I opened up
my firm, and about three yearsago, I have had clients call me,
(06:32):
call me and say, hey, I havecrypto. How do I report or report
it? And I've had crypto myselfsince 17. And I said, oh, I don't
know. So what I did is I wentdown the rabbit hole and I had this
little wallet that, that hadmaybe 300 transactions on it over
a couple year period. That wasjust kind of my playing around, you
know, testing here, testingthere. And I, I connected it to all
(06:57):
the products on the market.There's a total of 14. And I didn't
discriminate just for the U.S.i used products from all over the
world because, you know,somebody might have gotten it right.
So I connected it and Iexpected the outcome. You know, on
300 transactions in the cryptoworld, that's really nothing. I expected
the outcome to be about thesame, right? Maybe some variances,
(07:20):
maybe a little bit ofdifference in the capital gain, short
term, long term, and incomeincome report for, for the year that
I selected. And it wasn't, itwas everywhere. It was all over the
place. It wasn't that seven ofthe products matched and the other
seven didn't. It wasn't thateven two of the products matched.
No, everyone was all over theplace with variances between 10 to
(07:43):
35%. And that is concerning,especially on a third 300 transaction
wallet. So I said, well, thisis odd. And I went in and I pulled
the raw data from all theproducts, the crypto tax products
on the market. I pulled theraw data and then I pulled the raw
data directly from theblockchain, in order to compare and
(08:04):
see what the issues were, whythey're doing it wrong. I researched
with the IRS. I contacted theIRS regarding certain regulations.
I talked to professionals fromuniversities, PhDs, et cetera, that
work with the IRS, and Ivalidated what I found and what the
issues were. So now this isthe problem. You can go to one of
(08:28):
the products and they willtell you, and this is not over exaggerating.
One will tell you you have again of $25,000 for one year and
another product for the sameexact year, the same set of data.
Data will tell you you have aloss of $351. That is a huge difference.
Right? But now the otherproblem is you go to one of the exchanges
(08:50):
and on the same set of datathat, because it's from their exchange,
they will tell you you have again of $99. There is a variance.
It's a huge variance. Andthere really isn't a good way right
now to, to do this right.Because manually doing it, trust
me, took me a year to figureout how to manually get it right
(09:12):
and what the issues are. Soinitially, once I had my findings,
I went and I spoke, Icontacted all the, the products and
I said, and I even contactedsome exchanges and I said, hey, I
don't want any money. I foundthe, I found issues that are detrimental
to your users and taxpayers. Iwant to give it to you so you can
(09:33):
fix it. 90% of them said, wedon't care. Blocked me. Yeah. Then
the 10% that I spoke to, Ispoke to the CEOs and their tax attorneys.
They couldn't answer thesimple questions as to why are you
pulling this data? Where isthis number coming from? And then
they turned around and triedto sell me their product. And I said,
(09:55):
well, no thanks, I'm good. Andso, and so then I said, you know
what? If nobody wants to fixit, I'm going to fix it. And so I,
you know, I've been working onbuilding this product that we're,
we're about to launch withinthe next less than a month. And,
but then in 2023, the SEC, Imet with the SEC, a bunch, a lot
(10:20):
of their division chiefs, andwe, we showed our research and we
showed all the proof that wehad, all the research, all the details.
And they said, oh, crap. Theysaid, well, we don't oversee crypto,
but this is concerning. Wewill get you together with congressional
committees and the irs. So wemet with the irs, and while we were
meeting with the irs, the IRSwe were showing them our research,
(10:45):
the proof, everything that wehad collected over the last couple
years and the solutions. Andwe asked them, how do you do the
internal audits, how do youget the data and how do you do the
calculations? Well, the waythey were doing collecting the data
and doing the calculations wehad just proven in our research was
wrong. So the IRS was actuallydoing it wrong. The IRS stopped the
(11:09):
audits March of 2023 becausewe could prove that what they're
doing was giving them falseoutcomes. Now they asked us for a
request for information, arequest for proposal. We gave them
all the details in order tohow to do it right. And then they
went ahead and partnered withChainalysis and you can find this
(11:31):
online to trace assets ratherthan to fix their internal issues.
In order to seize assets, tofind, you know, people who are tax
evasion territory, get theirassets. Not really a good idea. But
that is another story. We alsomet with the congressional committees
and started working closelywith multiple universities. In 2024,
(11:54):
these universities used ourresearch again in order to stop the
IRS from start. From startingaudits up again. These universities
have also since peer reviewedall my research and are drafting
research publications rightnow that should be published within
the next couple of weeks toprove everything that I've been saying
(12:16):
that I found is accurate. Nowwe come to the solution. And I know
this sounds. I don't like tosound cocky, but our product is the
solution. We've had itvalidated. It is not built by coders.
It is built by taxprofessionals in conjunction with
PhDs from universities withme, I've been in tax forever. And
(12:41):
with tax attorneys, we'vevalidated everything. And our product
lacks the features that wouldcause the IRS to say, I'm not accepting
this for an audit to help youin an audit. This is where we're
at at this moment.
Gotcha. Gotcha. And wow, thankyou for being an advocate for the
(13:04):
people and going through allof that for us, because that sounds
like a journey. And I know itwasn't easy speaking to the government
agencies and things like that,but I just had one more question
for you when it comes tocrypto taxes, because people may
be asking this, is there acertain dollar amount to make it
(13:25):
taxable or is everything reportable?
Everything is reportable.Doesn't matter the dollar amount.
It is not like the 1099, youknow, where. Where you have to pay
somebody over $600 in order togenerate a 1099. Everything is taxable.
Yeah.
Tell us more about defi taxand how people can find it.
(13:46):
So the way we develop theproduct is it is very simple on the
front end, what the user seesbecause we all know what happens
on the blockchain stays on theblockchain, can't be changed. The
back end is where thecomplication happens. All the little
nuances to ensure that theright data is pulled, the right calculations
are met, all the asset classessuch as NFTs are correctly categorized.
(14:13):
We offer a variety. We alsohave a bookkeeping version that will
be launched as well. Sobasically think QuickBooks for crypto.
So people who are acceptingthis in the business world can actually
have a very well producedprofit and loss balance sheet and
capital gains and lossesreported. We have a wait list right
(14:34):
now and you can sign up onDefyTax US and the first launch,
the soft launch will be foranybody who has been on who is on
the wait list. They will belet in first with various perks,
etc. Mid April they will beable to really look around, get a
(14:56):
feel for what we're doingdifferent. And like I said, it is
very simple build because theproducts on the market have features
that allow you to edittransactions. The date, the time,
the currency type. And that'sjust not something that can be done
because the blockchain againknown for once it happens, it is
(15:18):
there, it cannot be changed.So we have made it very audit friendly
that to a degree, if the IRScomes, we can show them a report
that never has beenmanipulated in any way, shape or
form. And that's the key toreally protecting the individuals
from failed audits. One thingI want to point out for the people
(15:42):
that think, well, crypto isanonymous. The IRS doesn't know I
have it. I bought it once Iput it on my hardware wallet or a
cold wallet or anything likethat. That is not the case. If you
look up IRS John Doe letters.The IRS sent out a thousand John
Doe letters to every singleexchange and product that uses KYC
(16:03):
that requires you to ever inany way shape or form verify your
identity, whether it'sCoinbase, whether it's Kraken, whether
it's Gemini, Robinhood or evenMoonpay. And these, these products
responded. And the IRS knowsthe names and identities of anybody
who has bought crypto over theyears. So there's not really hiding.
(16:24):
And again, like I said,they're partnered with chain analysis.
So audit letters willeventually go out. And I just know
from experience working withmy clients, I have clients who panic
when they get a letter statingthat they get a refund and they ask
me, oh, God, what am I doing?I'm like, well, you're getting a
refund. That's a good thing.But can you imagine millions of letters
going out to people saying,you're being audited for crypto?
(16:47):
And then people coming out ofthe woodwork saying, we can help
when they really can't?
Wow. Wow, that is really goodinformation and thank you for sharing
that because I had no ideathat all of that was about to go
down or happening right now.So thank you for letting us know
and I'll make sure I have thatlink in the show notes. If people
(17:08):
wanted to learn more about youor follow you or any social media
outlets, where could they find you?
So we're on. I'm very much nota social media person. Um, I have,
I have people who do itbecause I just, I don't have time
with all the work. You know, Itry to convince my COO to be the
person that talks to people,but she refused. So I'm here. I like
(17:32):
my numbers. I like to say inthe background, but it is what it
is, right? I. This is all inmy brain. Unfortunately, I can't
transfer it. So we, we havesocial media, we have Instagram X,
Facebook, LinkedIn. It's alldefy tax. Defy tax us. Defy tax is,
(17:53):
is. Is our handle for most ofeverything. And, and that's how people
can follow us and find us andalso get updates on. On. On the different
launch dates for the differentversions. Because we do have different
versions. We have theindividual trader, the business version,
and then we have theaccountant version and they can sign
up for the wait list and geton. On. On it for the soft launch
(18:15):
when. When we're ready.
Thank you. Thank you. And ifyou all didn't catch all of that,
I'll make sure I have it inthe show notes, so check those out.
Thank you so much again, Yana.This was an amazing conversation
and so full of information andI know you've helped somebody out
there with their crypto taxes,so I really appreciate it.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
(18:37):
Thank you for listening,joining, and being a part of the
Money Talk with Tiff podcastthis week. You can check Tiff out
every Thursday for new MoneyTalk podcast, but if you just can't
wait until next week, you canlisten to previous podcast episodes
at Money Talk with t.com orfollow TIFF on all social media platforms
at Money Talk with T. Untilnext time. Spend wise by spending
(19:01):
less than you make. A word tothe money wise is always sufficient.
You know what it is. That'sright. It's time to talk money with
your money nerd and financialcoach. Now tighten those purse strings
and open those ears. It's theMoney Talk with Tiff podcast.
Hey, everyone. I am so excitedbecause I have Yana Scott on the
line and Yana's here to talkto us about something we've never
(00:22):
talked about on the podcastbefore. I know you're like, tiffany,
is that even possible? Yes, itis. Today we are talking about crypto
taxes. So we've talked aboutcrypto before a few times. We've
talked about taxes before afew times, but we've never talked
about crypto taxes. So. Hey,Yana, how are you?
I'm good. How are you?
I'm doing pretty good. Prettygood. I'm excited about this conversation
(00:44):
because I know a few people inthe audience probably have questions
about, you know, they get,they're getting into to crypto and
trading and they're like,okay, what does this mean for my
taxes? So let's hop right in.First and foremost, what would cause
something to be taxable whenit comes to crypto? Because I know
everybody's on like, you know,the, the little platforms and stuff
(01:06):
like Coinbase and so on and soforth, and they're just having fun
buying and selling and doingall types of stuff. But what causes
it to be taxable?
So crypto is taxable invarious different income categories.
There is capital gains, shortterm, and long term, and then there
(01:29):
is income. So those are thethree main categories of, of crypto
taxation. Now, cryptotaxation, capital gains, short term,
and long term fall intodifferent categories. So short term
is anything you held under ayear, which honestly, most of the
time that's the case forcrypto because people buy and sell
(01:50):
consistently with crypto beingso volatile. But there are some people
who've held crypto, theybought it back in 14 and they're
still holding it. So thatwould be a long term everything over
a year and a day. Now the taxbrackets for long term is 20%. So
you make, you make 100,000.You have long term, you have twenty,
(02:12):
twenty thousand dollar tax taxtaxable event, right? You have to
pay taxes, $20,000 in tax.Now, short term is a little bit different.
Short term ranges from 28 to37%. So if you have 100,000, you
can pay between 28,000 to37,000 in taxes. And that percentage
depends on someone's overallincome tax bracket. So high, high
(02:34):
income earners will be on thehigher end, low income Earners will
be on the shorter end. Nowthe, the income and I'll go into
which, which transaction typesare what in a minute. Income is.
Well, what it says, it'sincome. Income is simply whatever
(02:56):
you make, whether it is. Well,we'll go into the details right now,
whether it is you receivingcrypto from someone else, whether
it is you are mining. Ifyou're mining, that's considered
income or you get paid forsomething such as, you know, a lot
(03:16):
of influencers, they get paidwith crypto. That is ordinary income.
It goes into your ordinaryincome tax bracket. The more you
make, the higher your taxrate. We all know this. Then we have
the capital gains events. Andso for capital gains, the main transaction
types are obviously sell. Yousell, you have a capital gains event.
(03:37):
Let's say you buy somethingfor $2,000, it grows to 5,000, you
sell it, you have $3,000 ofcapital gain. Again, long term or
short term, depends on howlong you've held it. Trades. Trades
are capital gains events. Longterm or short term. When you take
your bitcoin and you trade itfor Ethereum and bridging is also
(03:59):
capital gains event. If youhave minted an NFT and you send it
to somebody else or you, yousell it, that's also capital gains
event. Long term, short term.
Gotcha, gotcha. So let's backup a little bit because you were
throwing out a lot of cryptoterms which I'm familiar with, but
the audience may not befamiliar with. One thing that you
(04:22):
threw out there was mining.Somebody might be like, well, how
do I know if I'm mining? Whatis that?
Well, mining is my son, my. Ihave a 15 year old who loves to play
Minecraft and so I tried toexplain mining to him. It's like
in Minecraft, right, you'redigging up blocks and some of the
(04:42):
blocks have diamonds in it,some of the blocks have gold in it.
And so basically you're miningblocks on the blockchain and you
will receive crypto inexchange. And so it's really what
it is. You're putting in workto, to earn something and that is
(05:02):
always income. Okay, now youdon't put in work when you actually
buy crypto and you just let itsit there. That's called passive
income because you're notactually working for it. But in mining,
you're physically, physicallymining blocks on the blockchain and
you get reimbursed for this.And so that is income.
Gotcha, gotcha. Thank you forthat explanation. I know that probably
(05:25):
helped a Few people out. Allright, so let's get back into the
tax part though. So I know,for instance, I have quite a few
friends where they're justlike, oh, I just want to get into
crypto. I just want to buysome Bitcoin, whatever, whatever.
And not really thinking aboutthe tax implications. And so what
if there's somebody listeningand they're like, okay, well, I know
(05:48):
I bought and sold last year,but I didn't keep track of anything
like as far as how long I heldit or any of that information. What
do they need to do now?
So, and that's, that's themain reason why, why I created Defi
Tax. There's products on themarket, obviously, everybody knows
(06:10):
it. They're endorsed bymultiple of the exchanges. The exchanges
themselves at this point areoffering reports that show a capital
gain and loss event about. SoI've been in accounting for years.
I worked for the government, Ileft the government, I opened up
my firm, and about three yearsago, I have had clients call me,
(06:32):
call me and say, hey, I havecrypto. How do I report or report
it? And I've had crypto myselfsince 17. And I said, oh, I don't
know. So what I did is I wentdown the rabbit hole and I had this
little wallet that, that hadmaybe 300 transactions on it over
a couple year period. That wasjust kind of my playing around, you
know, testing here, testingthere. And I, I connected it to all
(06:57):
the products on the market.There's a total of 14. And I didn't
discriminate just for the U.S.i used products from all over the
world because, you know,somebody might have gotten it right.
So I connected it and Iexpected the outcome. You know, on
300 transactions in the cryptoworld, that's really nothing. I expected
the outcome to be about thesame, right? Maybe some variances,
(07:20):
maybe a little bit ofdifference in the capital gain, short
term, long term, and incomeincome report for, for the year that
I selected. And it wasn't, itwas everywhere. It was all over the
place. It wasn't that seven ofthe products matched and the other
seven didn't. It wasn't thateven two of the products matched.
No, everyone was all over theplace with variances between 10 to
(07:43):
35%. And that is concerning,especially on a third 300 transaction
wallet. So I said, well, thisis odd. And I went in and I pulled
the raw data from all theproducts, the crypto tax products
on the market. I pulled theraw data and then I pulled the raw
data directly from theblockchain, in order to compare and
(08:04):
see what the issues were, whythey're doing it wrong. I researched
with the IRS. I contacted theIRS regarding certain regulations.
I talked to professionals fromuniversities, PhDs, et cetera, that
work with the IRS, and Ivalidated what I found and what the
issues were. So now this isthe problem. You can go to one of
(08:28):
the products and they willtell you, and this is not over exaggerating.
One will tell you you have again of $25,000 for one year and
another product for the sameexact year, the same set of data.
Data will tell you you have aloss of $351. That is a huge difference.
Right? But now the otherproblem is you go to one of the exchanges
(08:50):
and on the same set of datathat, because it's from their exchange,
they will tell you you have again of $99. There is a variance.
It's a huge variance. Andthere really isn't a good way right
now to, to do this right.Because manually doing it, trust
me, took me a year to figureout how to manually get it right
(09:12):
and what the issues are. Soinitially, once I had my findings,
I went and I spoke, Icontacted all the, the products and
I said, and I even contactedsome exchanges and I said, hey, I
don't want any money. I foundthe, I found issues that are detrimental
to your users and taxpayers. Iwant to give it to you so you can
(09:33):
fix it. 90% of them said, wedon't care. Blocked me. Yeah. Then
the 10% that I spoke to, Ispoke to the CEOs and their tax attorneys.
They couldn't answer thesimple questions as to why are you
pulling this data? Where isthis number coming from? And then
they turned around and triedto sell me their product. And I said,
(09:55):
well, no thanks, I'm good. Andso, and so then I said, you know
what? If nobody wants to fixit, I'm going to fix it. And so I,
you know, I've been working onbuilding this product that we're,
we're about to launch withinthe next less than a month. And,
but then in 2023, the SEC, Imet with the SEC, a bunch, a lot
(10:20):
of their division chiefs, andwe, we showed our research and we
showed all the proof that wehad, all the research, all the details.
And they said, oh, crap. Theysaid, well, we don't oversee crypto,
but this is concerning. Wewill get you together with congressional
committees and the irs. So wemet with the irs, and while we were
meeting with the irs, the IRSwe were showing them our research,
(10:45):
the proof, everything that wehad collected over the last couple
years and the solutions. Andwe asked them, how do you do the
internal audits, how do youget the data and how do you do the
calculations? Well, the waythey were doing collecting the data
and doing the calculations wehad just proven in our research was
wrong. So the IRS was actuallydoing it wrong. The IRS stopped the
(11:09):
audits March of 2023 becausewe could prove that what they're
doing was giving them falseoutcomes. Now they asked us for a
request for information, arequest for proposal. We gave them
all the details in order tohow to do it right. And then they
went ahead and partnered withChainalysis and you can find this
(11:31):
online to trace assets ratherthan to fix their internal issues.
In order to seize assets, tofind, you know, people who are tax
evasion territory, get theirassets. Not really a good idea. But
that is another story. We alsomet with the congressional committees
and started working closelywith multiple universities. In 2024,
(11:54):
these universities used ourresearch again in order to stop the
IRS from start. From startingaudits up again. These universities
have also since peer reviewedall my research and are drafting
research publications rightnow that should be published within
the next couple of weeks toprove everything that I've been saying
(12:16):
that I found is accurate. Nowwe come to the solution. And I know
this sounds. I don't like tosound cocky, but our product is the
solution. We've had itvalidated. It is not built by coders.
It is built by taxprofessionals in conjunction with
PhDs from universities withme, I've been in tax forever. And
(12:41):
with tax attorneys, we'vevalidated everything. And our product
lacks the features that wouldcause the IRS to say, I'm not accepting
this for an audit to help youin an audit. This is where we're
at at this moment.
Gotcha. Gotcha. And wow, thankyou for being an advocate for the
(13:04):
people and going through allof that for us, because that sounds
like a journey. And I know itwasn't easy speaking to the government
agencies and things like that,but I just had one more question
for you when it comes tocrypto taxes, because people may
be asking this, is there acertain dollar amount to make it
(13:25):
taxable or is everything reportable?
Everything is reportable.Doesn't matter the dollar amount.
It is not like the 1099, youknow, where. Where you have to pay
somebody over $600 in order togenerate a 1099. Everything is taxable.
Yeah.
Tell us more about defi taxand how people can find it.
(13:46):
So the way we develop theproduct is it is very simple on the
front end, what the user seesbecause we all know what happens
on the blockchain stays on theblockchain, can't be changed. The
back end is where thecomplication happens. All the little
nuances to ensure that theright data is pulled, the right calculations
are met, all the asset classessuch as NFTs are correctly categorized.
(14:13):
We offer a variety. We alsohave a bookkeeping version that will
be launched as well. Sobasically think QuickBooks for crypto.
So people who are acceptingthis in the business world can actually
have a very well producedprofit and loss balance sheet and
capital gains and lossesreported. We have a wait list right
(14:34):
now and you can sign up onDefyTax US and the first launch,
the soft launch will be foranybody who has been on who is on
the wait list. They will belet in first with various perks,
etc. Mid April they will beable to really look around, get a
(14:56):
feel for what we're doingdifferent. And like I said, it is
very simple build because theproducts on the market have features
that allow you to edittransactions. The date, the time,
the currency type. And that'sjust not something that can be done
because the blockchain againknown for once it happens, it is
(15:18):
there, it cannot be changed.So we have made it very audit friendly
that to a degree, if the IRScomes, we can show them a report
that never has beenmanipulated in any way, shape or
form. And that's the key toreally protecting the individuals
from failed audits. One thingI want to point out for the people
(15:42):
that think, well, crypto isanonymous. The IRS doesn't know I
have it. I bought it once Iput it on my hardware wallet or a
cold wallet or anything likethat. That is not the case. If you
look up IRS John Doe letters.The IRS sent out a thousand John
Doe letters to every singleexchange and product that uses KYC
(16:03):
that requires you to ever inany way shape or form verify your
identity, whether it'sCoinbase, whether it's Kraken, whether
it's Gemini, Robinhood or evenMoonpay. And these, these products
responded. And the IRS knowsthe names and identities of anybody
who has bought crypto over theyears. So there's not really hiding.
(16:24):
And again, like I said,they're partnered with chain analysis.
So audit letters willeventually go out. And I just know
from experience working withmy clients, I have clients who panic
when they get a letter statingthat they get a refund and they ask
me, oh, God, what am I doing?I'm like, well, you're getting a
refund. That's a good thing.But can you imagine millions of letters
going out to people saying,you're being audited for crypto?
(16:47):
And then people coming out ofthe woodwork saying, we can help
when they really can't?
Wow. Wow, that is really goodinformation and thank you for sharing
that because I had no ideathat all of that was about to go
down or happening right now.So thank you for letting us know
and I'll make sure I have thatlink in the show notes. If people
(17:08):
wanted to learn more about youor follow you or any social media
outlets, where could they find you?
So we're on. I'm very much nota social media person. Um, I have,
I have people who do itbecause I just, I don't have time
with all the work. You know, Itry to convince my COO to be the
person that talks to people,but she refused. So I'm here. I like
(17:32):
my numbers. I like to say inthe background, but it is what it
is, right? I. This is all inmy brain. Unfortunately, I can't
transfer it. So we, we havesocial media, we have Instagram X,
Facebook, LinkedIn. It's alldefy tax. Defy tax us. Defy tax is,
(17:53):
is. Is our handle for most ofeverything. And, and that's how people
can follow us and find us andalso get updates on. On. On the different
launch dates for the differentversions. Because we do have different
versions. We have theindividual trader, the business version,
and then we have theaccountant version and they can sign
up for the wait list and geton. On. On it for the soft launch
(18:15):
when. When we're ready.
Thank you. Thank you. And ifyou all didn't catch all of that,
I'll make sure I have it inthe show notes, so check those out.
Thank you so much again, Yana.This was an amazing conversation
and so full of information andI know you've helped somebody out
there with their crypto taxes,so I really appreciate it.
Awesome. Well, thank you so much.
(18:37):
Thank you for listening,joining, and being a part of the
Money Talk with Tiff podcastthis week. You can check Tiff out
every Thursday for new MoneyTalk podcast, but if you just can't
wait until next week, you canlisten to previous podcast episodes
at Money Talk with t.com orfollow TIFF on all social media platforms
at Money Talk with T. Untilnext time. Spend wise by spending
(19:01):
less than you make. A word tothe money wise is always sufficient.
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