December 8, 2025 • 46 mins
With 7.7 million Venezuelan refugees globally and 2.9 million in Colombia alone, the challenge of distributing humanitarian aid effectively is huge. Using cash is slow and risky, and lacks transparency, raising problems for NGOs and migrants alike. In this episode, we’re joined by the team from AAvance, a fintech working with Visa to tackle this problem head-on. We’ll explore how their digital wallet is replacing insecure cash with prepaid cards, giving dignity and financial freedom to migrants. We’ll hear the human stories behind AAvance’s work, and learn how it’s creating a pathway to economic independence for migrants across Colombia. And we’ll discover just why it matters so much to AAvance’s founders themselves John Herreño and Magreth Gutierrez Vargas.
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Visa Direct capability is enabled through a financial institution partner. Visa Direct product availability and functionality varies by market. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent. Visa neither makes any warranty or representation as to the completeness or accuracy of the information within this podcast, nor assumes any liability or responsibility that may result from reliance on such information and any information from third parties. The information contained in this podcast is not intended as investment or legal advice, and listeners are encouraged to seek the advice of a competent professional where such advice is required. All brand names, logos and/or trademarks are the property of their respective owners, and do not necessarily imply product endorsement or affiliation with Visa.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Humanitarian aid is temporary. One of the big topics in the
world of aid is around beneficiary choice.
We brought our product to some of the smartest people in the
room to understand what the problem was and how we could
solve it. Cash brings many problems.
Fraud, duplicity, robbery. When people use cash, they don't
make a history with a debit card.
(00:21):
With a prepared Visa card, you can use the money where you
really need it. We believe financial inclusion
is fast banking and then create history, financial education and
create lines. It's very important for the Ng
OS to get data for the dollars. If the dollar don't know how the
money is impact the beneficiary.It's not easy to improve the
(00:41):
life of new families. So that's very important for us.
Today we're marking Human RightsDay, 10th of December, with a
special episode that looks at the challenges faced by migrants
around the world and how digitalpayments can help solve them.
We're joining in person MargaretGutierrez and John Ireno from
Advance Say Fintech, bringing financial inclusion to migrants
(01:03):
in Latin America and more. Also joining us in the studio is
Rajeev Gorodia, Senior Vice President and Global Head of
Visa Government Solutions, who'sbeen partnering with Advance Say
to enable digital payments for migrants in Colombia.
We'll explore the immense challenges of delivering
humanitarian aid to migrant populations, how Advancer is
building faster, safer ways to deliver aid, and why digital
(01:23):
payments are helping to leave migrants towards full financial
independence. Hello and welcome to another
episode of Money Travels presented by Visa, where we
explore the extraordinary innovations in digital finance,
transforming lives and livelihoods everywhere.
I'm rich. And Max.
(01:45):
Margaret, John, Rajeev, welcome to the show.
So Rajeev, you're the 1st guest from Visa.
We've actually interviewed and there's a reason for that.
We've never used this podcast askind of a platform to point what
we're doing, and it's all arounddiving into the stories of the
people we have on here. But I think this particular
topic I know is a very close to your heart, but it's going to
(02:07):
really shine a light on a part of Visa that maybe people don't
know too much about. So I think it'd be great to set
the scene with a, an introduction for yourself and
the work that you do as head of the global head of Visa
Government solutions and kind ofwhat that means in the context
of why we're here. Thanks Rich, that makes me feel
very special. So Visa Government Solutions, as
(02:28):
the name says on the tin, is allabout solving for problems in
the public sector. In most countries, the
governments are more than half of GDP, if not close to it,
which also means they do a lot of economic activity.
They collect taxes and revenues.They also spend social benefits
(02:52):
procuring goods and that involves a lot of payments.
And all these governments are looking to digitize to be more
effective and be more efficient in what they do to the citizens.
And this is where we saw an opportunity for Visa to come and
help in some of this digitization effort.
Broadly, we do 3 or 4 things here. 1 is governments make a
(03:15):
lot of very critical social benefit payments to citizens.
We do help make it more efficient and and make it work
harder. They do procure a lot of goods.
They are often the biggest buyerin the country.
So the procurement and T&E programs is another area where
we come and help. We also help digitize revenue
collection for the government interms of taxes.
(03:37):
How do you make that aspect of government operations better?
And finally, we do use some of our data to help governments in
developing better insights into how their policies are working
or not. So these are kind of some areas
where we help governments digitize and be more effective.
Obviously today we're going to focus on, I guess the
humanitarian aid portion of whatyou do.
(03:59):
So how can Visa work with these humanitarian organisations to
help deliver that aid that is much needed in the countries?
Yeah. As we started looking at public
sector, we found humanitarian sector almost facing similar
challenges but even in more difficult circumstances.
So if you think of humanitarian organization, there are two
(04:19):
aspects where we come in to help.
So one is there are humanitarianorganization which are global in
nature. There are some which are more
market specific, but in most cases they have a huge money
movement need where they collectmoney from donors and then they
disperse it to various offices around the world.
More often than not in very difficult situations, be it
(04:40):
countries where infrastructure is poor or serving a set of
beneficiaries who are struggling.
So the everything we do in a context which is much more
harder. So we do come and help and they
are good at the aid disbursement.
They're not good at managing theback office of payments, which
involves a lot of operationals. So that's one area where we
(05:03):
thought we could come and help and simplify their payment
infrastructure. The second area, which is more
on the beneficiary side, so one of the big topics in the world
of aid is around beneficiary choice, is how do beneficiaries
want to receive aid. And that's important to the
context in which they are. So whether it's a bank account,
whether it's a card, whether it's a wallet because there
(05:26):
might be a market, mobile wallets or whether it is cash.
And I think that aspect of building a digital product which
helps beneficiaries to choose how they want to receive their
aid in the most effective way was one of the other areas we
thought we could help and which we are beginning to do.
So that almost brings us on to our guests from events, say, and
maybe you should kind of introduce how we met them in the
(05:49):
first place, so. As we started working with
humanitarian organizations, I remember talking to the first
two or three partners, likes of World Vision and IRC.
They all pointed to Colombia as one market where they were
active in and they wanted us to.We basically did a Co creation
session in Colombia where we brought the three organizations
(06:10):
together. We did some research on ground
with the refugees. We brought our product and some
of the smartest people in the room to understand what the
problem was and how we could solve it.
Soon after we met Avance as we are doing the solutioning and
they've been incredible partnersfor the last two years in in
bringing that solution to life. So what was essentially a theory
(06:32):
is is what a once helped convertinto a real life solution.
Thank you and it's amazing to have you with lots of questions.
Margaret, the first question is for you.
According to the UNHCR, there are 122 million of people that
have been displaced forcibly and7.7 are actually coming from
Venezuela. So I guess the the the first
(06:54):
question is where does it all ofthis has started and how do you
help the the people have been displaced?
Thank you so much for the invitation, Astoria.
My story and what we're doing with migrants in conjunction
with Visa Advance and all other organizations we're bringing
together in different parts of the world is to support the
(07:16):
financial inclusion of people who decide to come to a country
with a dream. It's about creating a sense of
commitment to stay, seeking regularization and generating a
space for them to build a new life when they arrive in their
destination countries. Being from the border, I'm
(07:42):
Colombian, Venezuelan. I realized when I arrived in
Colombia that after 15 years I didn't have access to credit
because I had lived abroad for so many years.
And it turns out that financial inclusion is part of a
(08:03):
multidimensional effect on a human being's life.
In Latin America today, we definitely need people with
inclusion and financial literacyto be able to generate
development and opportunities inthe long term, and Venezuelan
(08:25):
migrants are no exception. When Venezuelan migrants arrived
in Colombia, unfortunately therewere no financial products
available to support them and help make their stay from
humanitarian aid to opportunities for their
development clear and. Transparent.
(08:46):
That's when our. Idea was born.
It's helping the migrants themselves, but it's also
helping the staff of the Human Humanitarians organization,
right? Avance has created a
comprehensive financial inclusion model.
This allows us not only to reachbeneficiaries, but also to
(09:07):
become a solution for NGOs and. Local governments supporting
them in. All their financial inclusion
programs from providing assistance in assessing saving
products for the beneficiaries they serve.
Natural persons from the countrywhere we are working are
(09:29):
migrants, refugees and people invulnerable situations who have
been. Forcibly displaced and with
them. Within that financial inclusion
program, what we do is provide access to real, reliable,
transparent and secure financialproducts through Visa, allowing
(09:50):
us to build credit histories so that in the medium and long
term, these communities can not only receive priority
humanitarian aid, but also participate in financial
education and training programs with support and technological
tools like the one Visa offers us with the Alias directory to
(10:12):
be able to generate accurate information.
What is that trace, that impact that is being measured at the
moment or that is being delivered to those families?
There were many cases where, forexample, NGOs and governments
would deliver food baskets and other supplies to vulnerable
(10:34):
populations, bringing them rice,but what people really needed
was disposable diapers for theirchildren.
Definitely the power to incorporate humanitarian aid.
Financial technology solutions allow governments and NGOs to
improve and better plan these humanitarian aid deliveries by
(10:59):
managing excellent information. And also it's very important for
the NGOs to get data for the donors because if the donors
don't know how the money is impact the population that they
are targeted or the beneficiary,it's not easy to get more
resources or more donors to get improved new life for new
families. So that is very important for
(11:21):
us. The traditional approach to aid
has been cash. What problems does that bring?
Cash brings many problems, fraud, duplicity and also is
risk for the beneficiaries because they can take risk to
get robbery. And part of the challenge for us
was to change the main set of the NGO staff because they
(11:44):
believe that cash was the easy way and it was the the better
way to attain this migrant population.
And after one case where one NGOdelivery some seed capital from
some migrant entrepreneurs, the person received the the the
money cash and in less than 15 minutes they get robbery.
(12:08):
In the trans Millennium, the public transport in Bogota.
So we teach to the NGO that the digital waste, that debit card,
prepaid cards, even while it's like Avance is better for, for,
for the beneficiaries. And also we have to understand
that some population have some knowledge about digitalisation
(12:30):
and cashless like Venezuelan population, because Venezuela is
was the first country in that time to get use digital
payments. So anywhere in the world they
can use digital payments. So we have to change the mindset
of the NGOs and to think that ifthey can't have this
(12:50):
disparatement by Devi car, prepared car, they're going to
have data and the data is very important because they have
traceability. It's not good that from the
COVID-19, 72% of the humanitarian aid that they
deliver is without traceability nowadays.
So I think that's really good context about the challenges in
(13:10):
this space. I want to talk about you guys.
I want to talk about Evan say, and what we love talking about
on this podcast is the reason why you set out to do what you
do and your mission. Well, I was a migrant for 15
years, as I mentioned before, and when I was a migrant, I came
(13:31):
to Venezuela to work and Venezuela opened its arms to me.
I asked God to give me the opportunity to give back to
Venezuela and its people. What they gave me was progress,
(13:52):
and it was born out of gratitudebecause of the love I owed to
the people who helped me in thatcountry, that opened its doors
to me, that embraced me, and I had the opportunity to live on
the border. When I returned to Colombia for
four years, I began to understand what happens on that
(14:13):
bridge when people leave their country with two suitcases and
their children, to try to make their dreams come true, to find
food, to find stability, opportunities for healthcare.
And they are people who are it. It's very difficult for
(14:34):
migrants, Richard, very difficult indeed.
All migrants in the world have to adapt to a new language and
customs because even though we're in Latin American
countries, our communities have different customs and the fact
that people arrive after going through such a difficult
situation in their country. Leaving everything behind makes
(15:00):
them. Decide to leave at all to start
a new life. I started to realize that there
weren't any opportunities financially for them and that
there are definitely huge gaps in access to financial services.
And with John, we decided to create our own fintech company
(15:23):
and bring the cold world of finance into the humanitarian.
We don't just give people accessto financial services.
We offer love. Kindness and support we teach.
(15:47):
People how they can transform their financial health how they
can definitely through access toa bank account or by.
Applying for bank certification even.
To take your kids to school in Colombia, in Latin America, you
need a bank statement. When you want to apply for a
(16:10):
job, you need a bank statement. So since people didn't have them
or because they were hired informally, they didn't end up
being paid what they really needed to receive.
And that brought some complications in addition to
everything else that was happening within the migration
sector. And we definitely created it out
(16:33):
of love and kindness. And all of us who work at
Avantse believe that providing the support with love and
kindness, we are helping to transform the life of another
human being. How are cars or wallets helping?
I'd love to understand that. When we start this project with
(16:55):
Margaret, we also have a real experience with one person to
help us back back in the pandemic in 2020.
And she was a Venezuelan at thattime that we were in lockdown.
We have to pay her in cash because she didn't have a bank
account. You know, what was the risk to
go outside to take cash to pay this person?
(17:18):
And then we understand from her,she was a very, very important
for us to understand the the issue that the population leave.
She bring our home with a gift card from the NGO and this gig
card for was for a very no grocery store in or supermarket
(17:41):
in Colombia and was a very expensive supermarket for.
So how did you give help to to to a person and you give a gift
card to buy in a store that is so expensive?
So she tried to sell the car to Margaret.
So when she she tried to sell the car, they said why'd you
(18:01):
sell the car? They said, OK, I need the cars
because with this I can buy in different store that is cheaper
and I can buy more things. So sometimes the NGOs and also
the government, they give this kind of help, but they don't
really understand the necessity of the person.
I said my great said sometimes you need for food, but maybe you
(18:22):
need for education, you need fortransportation with a debit
card, with a prepared card, Visa, we prepare, you can use
the money where you really need it.
The fact that a person is in a vulnerable situation that is a
migrant or refugee does not makethem less intelligent Las.
Personas. People have the right to be able
(18:44):
to integrate socially and economically through a card or
account and buy what you really need, what their children truly
need. We can't think from the
perspective of churches or localgovernments that the truth is on
our side. The truth lies with those who
(19:05):
are experiencing. It so it is.
Definitely an act of love to be able to integrate and tell a
person that they are here and that there is a way for them to
integrate so they can move forward.
It's financial inclusion. Exactly.
I think it's fascinating becauseoften in these shows we try and
(19:26):
get into the mindset of that enduser.
Yeah, they're often forgotten because you're looking at the
kind of middle layer. And actually, Rajeev, you said
something as we were prepping for the show, which was along
the same lines in On the Dignityside of Things, where you're
turning up to a store with a coupon and how that makes you
feel. And I just thought that was
(19:46):
fascinating. Yeah.
And I think that's what John talked about, the ability to
feel part of the wider population by using a payment
method which everybody else uses, makes you feel less
different. It's a very nuanced part of
being integrated is the financial integration in in into
the wider mainstream. We talked about your role is for
(20:07):
the migrants, but also for the NGOs.
I'd love for you to tell us morelike, well, oh what where the
resistance and what did you do to overcome those barriers that
were coming from the the people you were helping to help the
people in the end. Sometimes we prefer to do things
the way always is just to do it.So I think NGOs sometimes feel
(20:31):
like that thing like that. Sometimes NGO believe that if
you want to attain population inin need, you need to have cash
to give right away or in crisis,in, in disasters, you, you need
cash. But we, we, we try to change
that. We send, we, we, we, we teach in
(20:53):
different way to NGOs. So for example, we deal with the
NGO, we deliver it so on prepaidcars in order that they have in
the stock in order to to do crisis.
So if somebody came to to to theoffice to the NGO for a crisis,
you give a car and the car you can download top up the money
(21:14):
right away. It's like a cash but without a
car. And also we understand it's
difficult to get the NGOs and the beneficiaries to get out of
the cash to go digital. So our programs are with a
physical car, debit and prepare physical car.
And also as Margaret said, we work not only digital, we work
(21:37):
with the people. So we go to the, the, the areas
where the people are vulnerable,vulnerability with the people
need we, we go there with the NGOs.
So although we have a digital solution, they know there's a
person, a bunch of person there that is very important.
(21:58):
And we understand that we are nolike only a financial payment
platform. We understand that if somebody
is a beneficiary for NGO or government to need disbursement
Friday night at 57-O clock, we have to disburse that money
(22:18):
because how we can go home thinking that somebody that need
money, they don't have money from Monday, Sunday, sorry,
Saturday or Sunday. So for us, it's very important,
this is our job to deliver the money, to spend the money right
in the right time, right away. I think there's another thing
you touched on earlier, which I think is very, very important.
(22:39):
It's also educating the NGOs to where the people come from,
because that's what you said, right?
Venezuela was actually one of the first country in the world
adapting digital wallet and digital money.
But maybe Colombian didn't have that knowledge that Venezuela
was so advanced in the way of using digital money.
(22:59):
And so they wanted to do good, but they didn't appreciate the
background of the people coming into the country.
Los migrantes well in. Venezuela, you can't withdraw
cash. Not for many.
Many. Years.
The ATMs don't work. The devaluation of the Bolivar,
(23:25):
it's made it unstable to have cash and when they arrive in
Colombia, they're very sensible and want to come back.
They see Colombians using cash and say, well, I'm in Colombia,
I'm a migrant. My situation is no, I can't
demand it. I'm going to use cash.
(23:48):
So in Colombia, cash is still the most common method of
payment. Out of every 10 transactions we
make, 7 out of every 10 are in cash.
Three are card payments. We still have a very long way to
go and definitely the people whohandle the issue of monetary
(24:11):
transfers and NGOs thought the solution was to hand them out.
So people started learning to live solely of donations, aid
and C. Capital and sustainable.
(24:32):
Development wasn't being generated over.
Time, people. Weren't having access to
financial saving services. People weren't receiving
financial education. So we've had to start working
with leaders of organizations, government leaders and NGO
(24:53):
leaders, transforming their thinking and telling them that
cash isn't the. Solution, people.
Can't live on cash alone. Upon receiving humanitarian aid,
people should see it as a gateway to financial products.
(25:15):
Humanitarian aid should be the starting point for building a
credit history. It's also the gateway to
financial education because financial inclusion without
education is impossible. We cannot expect that products
alone and self management will transform a person's life.
(25:36):
So we definitely had to educate and we are educating everyone
around us, all the stakeholders,and we work hand in hand with
these education programs so thatpeople can really start
accessing financial systems. But also we are, we learn from
(25:58):
the beneficiaries because today we have programs known when we
talk about full financial inclusion.
We have different solution in our wallet.
We have remittance by Visa. I read we have also a new
program is a digital saving groups.
And when we start this digital saving groups, we we have like a
(26:20):
minimum amount of money that they can save.
And in one space with a pilot with the NGO, one person said,
one beneficiary said I need lessthan $2.00, I can save only
$1.00. So we have to slow down the the
minimum because we have to hear what they really need and what
they really used to do it every day.
(26:43):
Avan says exactly that. It's more than just a wallet.
Perhaps you can talk about how it combines kind of banking
education, which you touched on before, kind of that financial
literacy and what that means forthe end user ultimately.
We for sure is a financial solution for NGOs and
beneficiaries, but we are not only disbursement and only
(27:06):
banking. We believe as Margaret said that
we have to be the the path wherethe beneficiary can transit from
the humanitarian aid need up to the development, social
development, integration. So we believe the financial
inclusion is first banking and then create history financial
(27:28):
education and then create lines.We have financial education in
the whole process and the whole service because we believe when
the people do financial education, they are willing to
pay better the credit lines. So for the reason we we have
nano crates, our nano crates go from $50 up to $250.
(27:52):
But this is a very chain maker for them because we are the 1st
credit that they receive. We are the first bank account
sometimes. And this is a financial,
financial inclusion. And for all migrants is, is very
important. And for the NGOs with our
platform and now with Visa aliasdirectory, the NGOs, they going
(28:13):
to reduce duplicity, they're going to reduce fraud in the, in
this transfer and they're going to get that.
That is very important and they can give a better impact because
if one NGO, for example World Vision is going to give
beneficiary some humanitarian for food, maybe another NGO like
(28:36):
Red Cross, they can give anotherhealth for crisis or maybe for
education. So we can improve the life of
the beneficiaries in many ways. You just talked about going
towards from Ed towards development.
What does it mean going from head towards development?
(28:57):
Humanitarian aid is temporary. Sometimes it takes like 3 up to
six months, sometimes to go up to 12 months, but it's finished.
If this population don't prepareto get entrepreneurship or to
get a job, it's going to be difficult to get out of poverty
or, or the the bulgarity situation.
(29:17):
So for example, our customers, the beneficiary CCCS person, our
customers are micro entrepreneurs or sell
employments because this we are in a, in a in, in Colombia, it's
a difficult economy to get jobs.So the people to have to do
entrepreneurship. So we bring them different tools
(29:38):
in our wallet. They can receive payments for
any bank account through WhatsApp.
They can receive payments transfer from different accounts
and also they can do payments with our debit or prepare card.
So that, that is very important and all the journey they have
the financial education in orderthat they improve the
(29:59):
entrepreneurship. We have a like a partnership
with Visa social impact and we have a platform called Enko
where is financial education forentrepreneurship.
And also we have done the first pilot that we did for Nano Crate
was with the NGO and we attend migrants and we delivery we
(30:22):
approve crate only for those woman's to did at least three
course and certificate with financial location and the
result everybody paid their the loans.
So we think when somebody is willing to study or do financial
location is willing to pay the case.
That's very interesting. When we prepared, you were
(30:43):
talking also about the usage of the digital wallet, all the
cards. So when they were receiving
there, there was a higher propensity for people to
actually use the card rather than, you know, retrieving cash.
Is that also helpful into building, you know, the next
level, which is entrepreneurshipor self-employed status?
(31:04):
Yes, of course when people use cash they don't make great
history and it's also difficult to get a budget and track how
you are to spend your money. So part of the the financial
location that we did is how do you use your debit card, your
bank account in order to take advantage in the future for
(31:25):
them. Today we have a pilot with World
Vision and it's very important because only 7% of the of the
beneficiaries, I do cash withdraw by ATMs. And also that
is very important to understand like 10% half savings by the end
of the month for this money thatthey receive for the NGO.
(31:47):
So this is the change maker for them.
I think it's really useful to look at what you're doing kind
of with real world examples. And you mentioned World Vision,
so it'd be really good to understand your work in action.
What is it you're actually doingwith World Vision?
World Vision, Assume Granalia. World Vision has been a great
ally of ours ever since we begancreating and structuring
(32:08):
financial products based on the needs of the population.
Several leaders from World Vision work with us and we're
able to pilot different programsserving various communities with
different products. We've been working with young
people, providing financial aid to these young people, including
(32:35):
and aligned with the Director's vision to measure the impact of
the aid. We've been working on financial
education programs with these young people.
With this vision. We also did a pilot with prepaid
Visa cards for migrant women in migratory transit areas, that
is, women leaving Venezuela and moving towards Colombia, Peru
(33:05):
and Ecuador. We were providing the
humanitarian aid that this population needed in real time
perhaps, and understanding that perhaps with that help that
mother and those children would sleep.
On that journey in that. Movement between countries with
(33:27):
World Vision. We have done banking work in the
territory. For us, trivialization means
arriving with our staff to take over the territories, the
neighborhoods, and to accompany the program, the financial
inclusion program, the access tothe digital wallet, the delivery
(33:49):
of the cards with a helping hand, a hug, a friendly hand,
accompanying and strengthening the process.
So we've all done pilot programsfor digital saving groups.
That's in Latin America. It's.
Still in its early stages, we have a program that provides
(34:11):
access to a digital wallet delivery of Visa.
Debit cards and Visa Prepaid. Cards and it ends up focusing on
building a digital savings group, which we've also done
over a certain period of time. This means we're doing quite
important work in Latin America,hand in hand with World Vision
(34:34):
World. Vision.
I'm going to ask you, Rajiv, actually, because I know this is
something that you're nodding along because this, this project
with World Vision is something that you've been really close to
and it's been something that you're really proud of.
What is the relationship there with Visa Government Solutions?
Is that just the underlying technology?
Is it? Is it broader than that?
There are two ways in which solutions come to market.
(34:54):
So the go to market which is in Colombia implementing the
solution on ground, that's what Avanci team does extremely well.
Where we come in is more on the solutioning side.
So we take the problems in, solve it with Avanci and the aid
organizations and keep developing it not only for
(35:14):
Colombia but for the world. So we can take it to other
markets as well and then also socialize it with those aid
organizations. So that's how we kind of go to
market with most things in Visa.But this is another example of
we're solving at scale, but the go to market is with strong
partners like a once. It must be brilliant watching I
guess from afar, seeing partnerslike Advance, they actually
(35:35):
bring it to life and bring this vision to life on the ground.
It's been amazing working with aonce a team here and and we do
solve problems across different areas in Visa.
But this is one of the spaces which is although satisfying
from an impact perspective with some of the most hard to reach
customers in very, very complex markets.
So that adds an extra dimension which is quite special.
(35:57):
But that's an important dimension because in this show,
we love talking about the why behind a company has been set
up. And I want to turn back to you
too. Why is this mission so important
to you? We are really a socially but
Fintech and from our CEO and founder Margaret, we really
(36:22):
think about the important to help others.
And we are gender focus for the reason our 56% of our customers
are women's because we understand in the migrant
population, the the woman take alead role in order to take and
to protect their their family. And we think the the
(36:45):
similarities that we have for migrants, for vulnerable
population, but for people in need are the same in any
country. We have the same difficulties to
get sometimes a job, to get money, to get food and some.
(37:05):
And if we think about crisis, it's the same problems.
And in financial inclusion, 22 years ago when I came here to
study, I was with a student visa22 years ago was so difficult to
get a bank account here, was so expensive to get a bank account
here in London for a student. So we believe if we give the
(37:27):
first chance and the first bank account to this population, to
this target population is a chain maker from the end because
even in in many countries if youdon't have a bank certification,
you can get a rent, you can get a job.
(37:50):
So we believe in financial inclusion and we think in that
and we think this solution with Visa, we can do it in 189
contests. This is already available.
So we want to do that and we want do social impact.
This is what I love about this show is when we have guests who
(38:13):
are driven by that passion, thatexperience, and it's one of the
reasons why we, you know, we'd love, we've loved having you.
We have also been serving communities in Cartagena,
Colombia, of women heads of families who, being Colombian,
had never been able to have access to a card and to
(38:34):
accompany them to a supermarket to do their shopping and say I
can come in here, I can buy these disposable diapers for my
children, I can swipe the card, I can do it, I'm integrated.
It is a satisfaction for us. There have been people who leave
(38:55):
the country with their cards. They've even gone to Venezuela
and can use their card and make videos and tell us thank you,
thank you for this, thank you for receiving this card.
And when we have the opportunity, I still really like
to go to work. I commute to the territory and
(39:17):
when people hug me and thank me,that fills my soul.
Fills my heart. It is the greatest satisfaction
to be able to accompany this process of dignification and
socio economic integration of a human being.
Fills my heart and soul. For you, Rajiv, what does it
(39:41):
mean to be not just part of the The Advancer journey in
partnership, but to be leading kind of this organization that
has, I guess, such a profound impact on people's lives around
the world? It's not very often that you are
able to blend your work with purpose and, and this is one
part of what my team does, whichis extremely satisfying for my
team, is just that you are working with very smart people
(40:04):
in a great company, solving big problems, but in this case
changing the world a little and making life better.
It's amazing to see the success you've had driven by this, this
like passion for the business, and you've already had such a
big impact. I'm just reading here some of
the recognition that you've gained from UNICEF, from MIT,
Solve the World Food Programme. When next?
(40:28):
What's the next big challenge? For us it's a very important to
escalate and to open new markets.
We for sure we're going to do Latin first.
We, we're going to open Ecuador with Red Cross and we want to
with the work program to do pilots in Somalia in it in
(40:53):
different areas because we believe this solution with alias
directory can work any, any, anywhere in, in the war.
Avance wants to replicate this model in different parts of the
world. There are more than 180 million
people migrating worldwide, of whom a percent receive
humanitarian aid and need accessto a financial product.
(41:18):
We want to and are working on replicating this model in Haiti,
in Nigeria, in countries like Africa when humanitarian aid is
arriving to support the transformation of these
people's. Lives and that's.
Where we're taking our next steps.
(41:42):
Definitely the mission and the heart must not be lost.
Onward. It was born, as I mentioned a
while ago, as an act of love. And we want to continue bringing
love, kindness and opportunitieshand in hand with many
governments and many other NGOs to different populations in
(42:06):
different parts of the world. And we're sure that with visa
we'll be able to achieve. It we have a.
Team that's constantly working to approve our product, our
solution. We've been working diligently
and continuously for the last two years developing the
solution. And.
(42:29):
We're ready to bring the solution in partnership with
Visa Advance and some other partners to different parts of
the world. Actores are different as part of
the Del Mundo. I need to ask this question, is
there any technology that you see like coming now that will
help you to go faster, to deliver the service better, to
(42:52):
help even more? Do you see like you know
anything at the moment exciting that could help you doing even
more, even better? I think blockchain technology,
we have to integrate new solution with blockchain.
cross-border payments for us is very important.
Beside it is, is very important cross-border issuing that is
(43:13):
also important for us. And in the other side, EI is, is
very important. Today we, we, we have delivering
some, some solution with EI to not only customer service, but
also for financial education. We want to launch in a couple of
months a new EI solution to customer service and financial
(43:34):
education. And how is blockchain helping
you? Blockchain is very important.
Also, we are exploring some solution with Visa, you know, to
attain disbursement and securityand transparency the
transactions too. And Rajeev, we have this
fantastic partnership with events say, how is this
partnership and partnerships like it kind of paving the way
for you and your team and the work that you want to go, go and
(43:57):
do? I think in many ways what we're
doing in Colombia with with Johnand Margaret is setting the
template for what we will do with similar organisations and
in other markets. So the Alias directory with John
talked about the whole experience of the customers, all
the learnings which we are taking from it will help us make
(44:18):
it a more global product and be able to help a wider range of
organisations. There are huge number of NGOs
from small to large across the world and I think what we're
learning here is so invaluable. It will help us do a much better
job and scaling it with our answer's help, but also with
other partners. We have one question that we
(44:40):
always ask. We'd like to know who you would
like to see on a future episode.You know what it will be for
financial inclusion. I think we'll be good, The Queen
Martima from Netherlands. That's come up on a she's come
up on a previous episode becauseone of our previous guests, I
(45:03):
think, had done some work with her.
OK. We haven't had Queen Maxima on,
but perhaps now. Well, listen, I think on that
note, we've just got to thank Margaret, John and of course,
Rajeev for coming on. Thank you for opening your arms
and welcoming us. Visa.
(45:26):
Visa and Advance are working hand in hand and we have nothing
but words of gratitude for this tremendous support we have
received. Thank you very much muchas.
Gracias. That's it from us this week.
To keep the conversation going, you can follow us on social
media. And of course, don't forget to
follow the show on Spotify and subscribe on YouTube.
(45:48):
And if you enjoyed what you heard today, leave us a review.
Tell your friends or better still, do both.
We'll be back next episode to explore more life change
innovations in digital finance. So wherever your travels take
you, remember to join us for thenext instalment of Money Travels
presented by Visa.
Humanitarian aid is temporary. One of the big topics in the
world of aid is around beneficiary choice.
We brought our product to some of the smartest people in the
room to understand what the problem was and how we could
solve it. Cash brings many problems.
Fraud, duplicity, robbery. When people use cash, they don't
make a history with a debit card.
(00:21):
With a prepared Visa card, you can use the money where you
really need it. We believe financial inclusion
is fast banking and then create history, financial education and
create lines. It's very important for the Ng
OS to get data for the dollars. If the dollar don't know how the
money is impact the beneficiary.It's not easy to improve the
(00:41):
life of new families. So that's very important for us.
Today we're marking Human RightsDay, 10th of December, with a
special episode that looks at the challenges faced by migrants
around the world and how digitalpayments can help solve them.
We're joining in person MargaretGutierrez and John Ireno from
Advance Say Fintech, bringing financial inclusion to migrants
(01:03):
in Latin America and more. Also joining us in the studio is
Rajeev Gorodia, Senior Vice President and Global Head of
Visa Government Solutions, who'sbeen partnering with Advance Say
to enable digital payments for migrants in Colombia.
We'll explore the immense challenges of delivering
humanitarian aid to migrant populations, how Advancer is
building faster, safer ways to deliver aid, and why digital
(01:23):
payments are helping to leave migrants towards full financial
independence. Hello and welcome to another
episode of Money Travels presented by Visa, where we
explore the extraordinary innovations in digital finance,
transforming lives and livelihoods everywhere.
I'm rich. And Max.
(01:45):
Margaret, John, Rajeev, welcome to the show.
So Rajeev, you're the 1st guest from Visa.
We've actually interviewed and there's a reason for that.
We've never used this podcast askind of a platform to point what
we're doing, and it's all arounddiving into the stories of the
people we have on here. But I think this particular
topic I know is a very close to your heart, but it's going to
(02:07):
really shine a light on a part of Visa that maybe people don't
know too much about. So I think it'd be great to set
the scene with a, an introduction for yourself and
the work that you do as head of the global head of Visa
Government solutions and kind ofwhat that means in the context
of why we're here. Thanks Rich, that makes me feel
very special. So Visa Government Solutions, as
(02:28):
the name says on the tin, is allabout solving for problems in
the public sector. In most countries, the
governments are more than half of GDP, if not close to it,
which also means they do a lot of economic activity.
They collect taxes and revenues.They also spend social benefits
(02:52):
procuring goods and that involves a lot of payments.
And all these governments are looking to digitize to be more
effective and be more efficient in what they do to the citizens.
And this is where we saw an opportunity for Visa to come and
help in some of this digitization effort.
Broadly, we do 3 or 4 things here. 1 is governments make a
(03:15):
lot of very critical social benefit payments to citizens.
We do help make it more efficient and and make it work
harder. They do procure a lot of goods.
They are often the biggest buyerin the country.
So the procurement and T&E programs is another area where
we come and help. We also help digitize revenue
collection for the government interms of taxes.
(03:37):
How do you make that aspect of government operations better?
And finally, we do use some of our data to help governments in
developing better insights into how their policies are working
or not. So these are kind of some areas
where we help governments digitize and be more effective.
Obviously today we're going to focus on, I guess the
humanitarian aid portion of whatyou do.
(03:59):
So how can Visa work with these humanitarian organisations to
help deliver that aid that is much needed in the countries?
Yeah. As we started looking at public
sector, we found humanitarian sector almost facing similar
challenges but even in more difficult circumstances.
So if you think of humanitarian organization, there are two
(04:19):
aspects where we come in to help.
So one is there are humanitarianorganization which are global in
nature. There are some which are more
market specific, but in most cases they have a huge money
movement need where they collectmoney from donors and then they
disperse it to various offices around the world.
More often than not in very difficult situations, be it
(04:40):
countries where infrastructure is poor or serving a set of
beneficiaries who are struggling.
So the everything we do in a context which is much more
harder. So we do come and help and they
are good at the aid disbursement.
They're not good at managing theback office of payments, which
involves a lot of operationals. So that's one area where we
(05:03):
thought we could come and help and simplify their payment
infrastructure. The second area, which is more
on the beneficiary side, so one of the big topics in the world
of aid is around beneficiary choice, is how do beneficiaries
want to receive aid. And that's important to the
context in which they are. So whether it's a bank account,
whether it's a card, whether it's a wallet because there
(05:26):
might be a market, mobile wallets or whether it is cash.
And I think that aspect of building a digital product which
helps beneficiaries to choose how they want to receive their
aid in the most effective way was one of the other areas we
thought we could help and which we are beginning to do.
So that almost brings us on to our guests from events, say, and
maybe you should kind of introduce how we met them in the
(05:49):
first place, so. As we started working with
humanitarian organizations, I remember talking to the first
two or three partners, likes of World Vision and IRC.
They all pointed to Colombia as one market where they were
active in and they wanted us to.We basically did a Co creation
session in Colombia where we brought the three organizations
(06:10):
together. We did some research on ground
with the refugees. We brought our product and some
of the smartest people in the room to understand what the
problem was and how we could solve it.
Soon after we met Avance as we are doing the solutioning and
they've been incredible partnersfor the last two years in in
bringing that solution to life. So what was essentially a theory
(06:32):
is is what a once helped convertinto a real life solution.
Thank you and it's amazing to have you with lots of questions.
Margaret, the first question is for you.
According to the UNHCR, there are 122 million of people that
have been displaced forcibly and7.7 are actually coming from
Venezuela. So I guess the the the first
(06:54):
question is where does it all ofthis has started and how do you
help the the people have been displaced?
Thank you so much for the invitation, Astoria.
My story and what we're doing with migrants in conjunction
with Visa Advance and all other organizations we're bringing
together in different parts of the world is to support the
(07:16):
financial inclusion of people who decide to come to a country
with a dream. It's about creating a sense of
commitment to stay, seeking regularization and generating a
space for them to build a new life when they arrive in their
destination countries. Being from the border, I'm
(07:42):
Colombian, Venezuelan. I realized when I arrived in
Colombia that after 15 years I didn't have access to credit
because I had lived abroad for so many years.
And it turns out that financial inclusion is part of a
(08:03):
multidimensional effect on a human being's life.
In Latin America today, we definitely need people with
inclusion and financial literacyto be able to generate
development and opportunities inthe long term, and Venezuelan
(08:25):
migrants are no exception. When Venezuelan migrants arrived
in Colombia, unfortunately therewere no financial products
available to support them and help make their stay from
humanitarian aid to opportunities for their
development clear and. Transparent.
(08:46):
That's when our. Idea was born.
It's helping the migrants themselves, but it's also
helping the staff of the Human Humanitarians organization,
right? Avance has created a
comprehensive financial inclusion model.
This allows us not only to reachbeneficiaries, but also to
(09:07):
become a solution for NGOs and. Local governments supporting
them in. All their financial inclusion
programs from providing assistance in assessing saving
products for the beneficiaries they serve.
Natural persons from the countrywhere we are working are
(09:29):
migrants, refugees and people invulnerable situations who have
been. Forcibly displaced and with
them. Within that financial inclusion
program, what we do is provide access to real, reliable,
transparent and secure financialproducts through Visa, allowing
(09:50):
us to build credit histories so that in the medium and long
term, these communities can not only receive priority
humanitarian aid, but also participate in financial
education and training programs with support and technological
tools like the one Visa offers us with the Alias directory to
(10:12):
be able to generate accurate information.
What is that trace, that impact that is being measured at the
moment or that is being delivered to those families?
There were many cases where, forexample, NGOs and governments
would deliver food baskets and other supplies to vulnerable
(10:34):
populations, bringing them rice,but what people really needed
was disposable diapers for theirchildren.
Definitely the power to incorporate humanitarian aid.
Financial technology solutions allow governments and NGOs to
improve and better plan these humanitarian aid deliveries by
(10:59):
managing excellent information. And also it's very important for
the NGOs to get data for the donors because if the donors
don't know how the money is impact the population that they
are targeted or the beneficiary,it's not easy to get more
resources or more donors to get improved new life for new
families. So that is very important for
(11:21):
us. The traditional approach to aid
has been cash. What problems does that bring?
Cash brings many problems, fraud, duplicity and also is
risk for the beneficiaries because they can take risk to
get robbery. And part of the challenge for us
was to change the main set of the NGO staff because they
(11:44):
believe that cash was the easy way and it was the the better
way to attain this migrant population.
And after one case where one NGOdelivery some seed capital from
some migrant entrepreneurs, the person received the the the
money cash and in less than 15 minutes they get robbery.
(12:08):
In the trans Millennium, the public transport in Bogota.
So we teach to the NGO that the digital waste, that debit card,
prepaid cards, even while it's like Avance is better for, for,
for the beneficiaries. And also we have to understand
that some population have some knowledge about digitalisation
(12:30):
and cashless like Venezuelan population, because Venezuela is
was the first country in that time to get use digital
payments. So anywhere in the world they
can use digital payments. So we have to change the mindset
of the NGOs and to think that ifthey can't have this
(12:50):
disparatement by Devi car, prepared car, they're going to
have data and the data is very important because they have
traceability. It's not good that from the
COVID-19, 72% of the humanitarian aid that they
deliver is without traceability nowadays.
So I think that's really good context about the challenges in
(13:10):
this space. I want to talk about you guys.
I want to talk about Evan say, and what we love talking about
on this podcast is the reason why you set out to do what you
do and your mission. Well, I was a migrant for 15
years, as I mentioned before, and when I was a migrant, I came
(13:31):
to Venezuela to work and Venezuela opened its arms to me.
I asked God to give me the opportunity to give back to
Venezuela and its people. What they gave me was progress,
(13:52):
and it was born out of gratitudebecause of the love I owed to
the people who helped me in thatcountry, that opened its doors
to me, that embraced me, and I had the opportunity to live on
the border. When I returned to Colombia for
four years, I began to understand what happens on that
(14:13):
bridge when people leave their country with two suitcases and
their children, to try to make their dreams come true, to find
food, to find stability, opportunities for healthcare.
And they are people who are it. It's very difficult for
(14:34):
migrants, Richard, very difficult indeed.
All migrants in the world have to adapt to a new language and
customs because even though we're in Latin American
countries, our communities have different customs and the fact
that people arrive after going through such a difficult
situation in their country. Leaving everything behind makes
(15:00):
them. Decide to leave at all to start
a new life. I started to realize that there
weren't any opportunities financially for them and that
there are definitely huge gaps in access to financial services.
And with John, we decided to create our own fintech company
(15:23):
and bring the cold world of finance into the humanitarian.
We don't just give people accessto financial services.
We offer love. Kindness and support we teach.
(15:47):
People how they can transform their financial health how they
can definitely through access toa bank account or by.
Applying for bank certification even.
To take your kids to school in Colombia, in Latin America, you
need a bank statement. When you want to apply for a
(16:10):
job, you need a bank statement. So since people didn't have them
or because they were hired informally, they didn't end up
being paid what they really needed to receive.
And that brought some complications in addition to
everything else that was happening within the migration
sector. And we definitely created it out
(16:33):
of love and kindness. And all of us who work at
Avantse believe that providing the support with love and
kindness, we are helping to transform the life of another
human being. How are cars or wallets helping?
I'd love to understand that. When we start this project with
(16:55):
Margaret, we also have a real experience with one person to
help us back back in the pandemic in 2020.
And she was a Venezuelan at thattime that we were in lockdown.
We have to pay her in cash because she didn't have a bank
account. You know, what was the risk to
go outside to take cash to pay this person?
(17:18):
And then we understand from her,she was a very, very important
for us to understand the the issue that the population leave.
She bring our home with a gift card from the NGO and this gig
card for was for a very no grocery store in or supermarket
(17:41):
in Colombia and was a very expensive supermarket for.
So how did you give help to to to a person and you give a gift
card to buy in a store that is so expensive?
So she tried to sell the car to Margaret.
So when she she tried to sell the car, they said why'd you
(18:01):
sell the car? They said, OK, I need the cars
because with this I can buy in different store that is cheaper
and I can buy more things. So sometimes the NGOs and also
the government, they give this kind of help, but they don't
really understand the necessity of the person.
I said my great said sometimes you need for food, but maybe you
(18:22):
need for education, you need fortransportation with a debit
card, with a prepared card, Visa, we prepare, you can use
the money where you really need it.
The fact that a person is in a vulnerable situation that is a
migrant or refugee does not makethem less intelligent Las.
Personas. People have the right to be able
(18:44):
to integrate socially and economically through a card or
account and buy what you really need, what their children truly
need. We can't think from the
perspective of churches or localgovernments that the truth is on
our side. The truth lies with those who
(19:05):
are experiencing. It so it is.
Definitely an act of love to be able to integrate and tell a
person that they are here and that there is a way for them to
integrate so they can move forward.
It's financial inclusion. Exactly.
I think it's fascinating becauseoften in these shows we try and
(19:26):
get into the mindset of that enduser.
Yeah, they're often forgotten because you're looking at the
kind of middle layer. And actually, Rajeev, you said
something as we were prepping for the show, which was along
the same lines in On the Dignityside of Things, where you're
turning up to a store with a coupon and how that makes you
feel. And I just thought that was
(19:46):
fascinating. Yeah.
And I think that's what John talked about, the ability to
feel part of the wider population by using a payment
method which everybody else uses, makes you feel less
different. It's a very nuanced part of
being integrated is the financial integration in in into
the wider mainstream. We talked about your role is for
(20:07):
the migrants, but also for the NGOs.
I'd love for you to tell us morelike, well, oh what where the
resistance and what did you do to overcome those barriers that
were coming from the the people you were helping to help the
people in the end. Sometimes we prefer to do things
the way always is just to do it.So I think NGOs sometimes feel
(20:31):
like that thing like that. Sometimes NGO believe that if
you want to attain population inin need, you need to have cash
to give right away or in crisis,in, in disasters, you, you need
cash. But we, we, we try to change
that. We send, we, we, we, we teach in
(20:53):
different way to NGOs. So for example, we deal with the
NGO, we deliver it so on prepaidcars in order that they have in
the stock in order to to do crisis.
So if somebody came to to to theoffice to the NGO for a crisis,
you give a car and the car you can download top up the money
(21:14):
right away. It's like a cash but without a
car. And also we understand it's
difficult to get the NGOs and the beneficiaries to get out of
the cash to go digital. So our programs are with a
physical car, debit and prepare physical car.
And also as Margaret said, we work not only digital, we work
(21:37):
with the people. So we go to the, the, the areas
where the people are vulnerable,vulnerability with the people
need we, we go there with the NGOs.
So although we have a digital solution, they know there's a
person, a bunch of person there that is very important.
(21:58):
And we understand that we are nolike only a financial payment
platform. We understand that if somebody
is a beneficiary for NGO or government to need disbursement
Friday night at 57-O clock, we have to disburse that money
(22:18):
because how we can go home thinking that somebody that need
money, they don't have money from Monday, Sunday, sorry,
Saturday or Sunday. So for us, it's very important,
this is our job to deliver the money, to spend the money right
in the right time, right away. I think there's another thing
you touched on earlier, which I think is very, very important.
(22:39):
It's also educating the NGOs to where the people come from,
because that's what you said, right?
Venezuela was actually one of the first country in the world
adapting digital wallet and digital money.
But maybe Colombian didn't have that knowledge that Venezuela
was so advanced in the way of using digital money.
(22:59):
And so they wanted to do good, but they didn't appreciate the
background of the people coming into the country.
Los migrantes well in. Venezuela, you can't withdraw
cash. Not for many.
Many. Years.
The ATMs don't work. The devaluation of the Bolivar,
(23:25):
it's made it unstable to have cash and when they arrive in
Colombia, they're very sensible and want to come back.
They see Colombians using cash and say, well, I'm in Colombia,
I'm a migrant. My situation is no, I can't
demand it. I'm going to use cash.
(23:48):
So in Colombia, cash is still the most common method of
payment. Out of every 10 transactions we
make, 7 out of every 10 are in cash.
Three are card payments. We still have a very long way to
go and definitely the people whohandle the issue of monetary
(24:11):
transfers and NGOs thought the solution was to hand them out.
So people started learning to live solely of donations, aid
and C. Capital and sustainable.
(24:32):
Development wasn't being generated over.
Time, people. Weren't having access to
financial saving services. People weren't receiving
financial education. So we've had to start working
with leaders of organizations, government leaders and NGO
(24:53):
leaders, transforming their thinking and telling them that
cash isn't the. Solution, people.
Can't live on cash alone. Upon receiving humanitarian aid,
people should see it as a gateway to financial products.
(25:15):
Humanitarian aid should be the starting point for building a
credit history. It's also the gateway to
financial education because financial inclusion without
education is impossible. We cannot expect that products
alone and self management will transform a person's life.
(25:36):
So we definitely had to educate and we are educating everyone
around us, all the stakeholders,and we work hand in hand with
these education programs so thatpeople can really start
accessing financial systems. But also we are, we learn from
(25:58):
the beneficiaries because today we have programs known when we
talk about full financial inclusion.
We have different solution in our wallet.
We have remittance by Visa. I read we have also a new
program is a digital saving groups.
And when we start this digital saving groups, we we have like a
(26:20):
minimum amount of money that they can save.
And in one space with a pilot with the NGO, one person said,
one beneficiary said I need lessthan $2.00, I can save only
$1.00. So we have to slow down the the
minimum because we have to hear what they really need and what
they really used to do it every day.
(26:43):
Avan says exactly that. It's more than just a wallet.
Perhaps you can talk about how it combines kind of banking
education, which you touched on before, kind of that financial
literacy and what that means forthe end user ultimately.
We for sure is a financial solution for NGOs and
beneficiaries, but we are not only disbursement and only
(27:06):
banking. We believe as Margaret said that
we have to be the the path wherethe beneficiary can transit from
the humanitarian aid need up to the development, social
development, integration. So we believe the financial
inclusion is first banking and then create history financial
(27:28):
education and then create lines.We have financial education in
the whole process and the whole service because we believe when
the people do financial education, they are willing to
pay better the credit lines. So for the reason we we have
nano crates, our nano crates go from $50 up to $250.
(27:52):
But this is a very chain maker for them because we are the 1st
credit that they receive. We are the first bank account
sometimes. And this is a financial,
financial inclusion. And for all migrants is, is very
important. And for the NGOs with our
platform and now with Visa aliasdirectory, the NGOs, they going
(28:13):
to reduce duplicity, they're going to reduce fraud in the, in
this transfer and they're going to get that.
That is very important and they can give a better impact because
if one NGO, for example World Vision is going to give
beneficiary some humanitarian for food, maybe another NGO like
(28:36):
Red Cross, they can give anotherhealth for crisis or maybe for
education. So we can improve the life of
the beneficiaries in many ways. You just talked about going
towards from Ed towards development.
What does it mean going from head towards development?
(28:57):
Humanitarian aid is temporary. Sometimes it takes like 3 up to
six months, sometimes to go up to 12 months, but it's finished.
If this population don't prepareto get entrepreneurship or to
get a job, it's going to be difficult to get out of poverty
or, or the the bulgarity situation.
(29:17):
So for example, our customers, the beneficiary CCCS person, our
customers are micro entrepreneurs or sell
employments because this we are in a, in a in, in Colombia, it's
a difficult economy to get jobs.So the people to have to do
entrepreneurship. So we bring them different tools
(29:38):
in our wallet. They can receive payments for
any bank account through WhatsApp.
They can receive payments transfer from different accounts
and also they can do payments with our debit or prepare card.
So that, that is very important and all the journey they have
the financial education in orderthat they improve the
(29:59):
entrepreneurship. We have a like a partnership
with Visa social impact and we have a platform called Enko
where is financial education forentrepreneurship.
And also we have done the first pilot that we did for Nano Crate
was with the NGO and we attend migrants and we delivery we
(30:22):
approve crate only for those woman's to did at least three
course and certificate with financial location and the
result everybody paid their the loans.
So we think when somebody is willing to study or do financial
location is willing to pay the case.
That's very interesting. When we prepared, you were
(30:43):
talking also about the usage of the digital wallet, all the
cards. So when they were receiving
there, there was a higher propensity for people to
actually use the card rather than, you know, retrieving cash.
Is that also helpful into building, you know, the next
level, which is entrepreneurshipor self-employed status?
(31:04):
Yes, of course when people use cash they don't make great
history and it's also difficult to get a budget and track how
you are to spend your money. So part of the the financial
location that we did is how do you use your debit card, your
bank account in order to take advantage in the future for
(31:25):
them. Today we have a pilot with World
Vision and it's very important because only 7% of the of the
beneficiaries, I do cash withdraw by ATMs. And also that
is very important to understand like 10% half savings by the end
of the month for this money thatthey receive for the NGO.
(31:47):
So this is the change maker for them.
I think it's really useful to look at what you're doing kind
of with real world examples. And you mentioned World Vision,
so it'd be really good to understand your work in action.
What is it you're actually doingwith World Vision?
World Vision, Assume Granalia. World Vision has been a great
ally of ours ever since we begancreating and structuring
(32:08):
financial products based on the needs of the population.
Several leaders from World Vision work with us and we're
able to pilot different programsserving various communities with
different products. We've been working with young
people, providing financial aid to these young people, including
(32:35):
and aligned with the Director's vision to measure the impact of
the aid. We've been working on financial
education programs with these young people.
With this vision. We also did a pilot with prepaid
Visa cards for migrant women in migratory transit areas, that
is, women leaving Venezuela and moving towards Colombia, Peru
(33:05):
and Ecuador. We were providing the
humanitarian aid that this population needed in real time
perhaps, and understanding that perhaps with that help that
mother and those children would sleep.
On that journey in that. Movement between countries with
(33:27):
World Vision. We have done banking work in the
territory. For us, trivialization means
arriving with our staff to take over the territories, the
neighborhoods, and to accompany the program, the financial
inclusion program, the access tothe digital wallet, the delivery
(33:49):
of the cards with a helping hand, a hug, a friendly hand,
accompanying and strengthening the process.
So we've all done pilot programsfor digital saving groups.
That's in Latin America. It's.
Still in its early stages, we have a program that provides
(34:11):
access to a digital wallet delivery of Visa.
Debit cards and Visa Prepaid. Cards and it ends up focusing on
building a digital savings group, which we've also done
over a certain period of time. This means we're doing quite
important work in Latin America,hand in hand with World Vision
(34:34):
World. Vision.
I'm going to ask you, Rajiv, actually, because I know this is
something that you're nodding along because this, this project
with World Vision is something that you've been really close to
and it's been something that you're really proud of.
What is the relationship there with Visa Government Solutions?
Is that just the underlying technology?
Is it? Is it broader than that?
There are two ways in which solutions come to market.
(34:54):
So the go to market which is in Colombia implementing the
solution on ground, that's what Avanci team does extremely well.
Where we come in is more on the solutioning side.
So we take the problems in, solve it with Avanci and the aid
organizations and keep developing it not only for
(35:14):
Colombia but for the world. So we can take it to other
markets as well and then also socialize it with those aid
organizations. So that's how we kind of go to
market with most things in Visa.But this is another example of
we're solving at scale, but the go to market is with strong
partners like a once. It must be brilliant watching I
guess from afar, seeing partnerslike Advance, they actually
(35:35):
bring it to life and bring this vision to life on the ground.
It's been amazing working with aonce a team here and and we do
solve problems across different areas in Visa.
But this is one of the spaces which is although satisfying
from an impact perspective with some of the most hard to reach
customers in very, very complex markets.
So that adds an extra dimension which is quite special.
(35:57):
But that's an important dimension because in this show,
we love talking about the why behind a company has been set
up. And I want to turn back to you
too. Why is this mission so important
to you? We are really a socially but
Fintech and from our CEO and founder Margaret, we really
(36:22):
think about the important to help others.
And we are gender focus for the reason our 56% of our customers
are women's because we understand in the migrant
population, the the woman take alead role in order to take and
to protect their their family. And we think the the
(36:45):
similarities that we have for migrants, for vulnerable
population, but for people in need are the same in any
country. We have the same difficulties to
get sometimes a job, to get money, to get food and some.
(37:05):
And if we think about crisis, it's the same problems.
And in financial inclusion, 22 years ago when I came here to
study, I was with a student visa22 years ago was so difficult to
get a bank account here, was so expensive to get a bank account
here in London for a student. So we believe if we give the
(37:27):
first chance and the first bank account to this population, to
this target population is a chain maker from the end because
even in in many countries if youdon't have a bank certification,
you can get a rent, you can get a job.
(37:50):
So we believe in financial inclusion and we think in that
and we think this solution with Visa, we can do it in 189
contests. This is already available.
So we want to do that and we want do social impact.
This is what I love about this show is when we have guests who
(38:13):
are driven by that passion, thatexperience, and it's one of the
reasons why we, you know, we'd love, we've loved having you.
We have also been serving communities in Cartagena,
Colombia, of women heads of families who, being Colombian,
had never been able to have access to a card and to
(38:34):
accompany them to a supermarket to do their shopping and say I
can come in here, I can buy these disposable diapers for my
children, I can swipe the card, I can do it, I'm integrated.
It is a satisfaction for us. There have been people who leave
(38:55):
the country with their cards. They've even gone to Venezuela
and can use their card and make videos and tell us thank you,
thank you for this, thank you for receiving this card.
And when we have the opportunity, I still really like
to go to work. I commute to the territory and
(39:17):
when people hug me and thank me,that fills my soul.
Fills my heart. It is the greatest satisfaction
to be able to accompany this process of dignification and
socio economic integration of a human being.
Fills my heart and soul. For you, Rajiv, what does it
(39:41):
mean to be not just part of the The Advancer journey in
partnership, but to be leading kind of this organization that
has, I guess, such a profound impact on people's lives around
the world? It's not very often that you are
able to blend your work with purpose and, and this is one
part of what my team does, whichis extremely satisfying for my
team, is just that you are working with very smart people
(40:04):
in a great company, solving big problems, but in this case
changing the world a little and making life better.
It's amazing to see the success you've had driven by this, this
like passion for the business, and you've already had such a
big impact. I'm just reading here some of
the recognition that you've gained from UNICEF, from MIT,
Solve the World Food Programme. When next?
(40:28):
What's the next big challenge? For us it's a very important to
escalate and to open new markets.
We for sure we're going to do Latin first.
We, we're going to open Ecuador with Red Cross and we want to
with the work program to do pilots in Somalia in it in
(40:53):
different areas because we believe this solution with alias
directory can work any, any, anywhere in, in the war.
Avance wants to replicate this model in different parts of the
world. There are more than 180 million
people migrating worldwide, of whom a percent receive
humanitarian aid and need accessto a financial product.
(41:18):
We want to and are working on replicating this model in Haiti,
in Nigeria, in countries like Africa when humanitarian aid is
arriving to support the transformation of these
people's. Lives and that's.
Where we're taking our next steps.
(41:42):
Definitely the mission and the heart must not be lost.
Onward. It was born, as I mentioned a
while ago, as an act of love. And we want to continue bringing
love, kindness and opportunitieshand in hand with many
governments and many other NGOs to different populations in
(42:06):
different parts of the world. And we're sure that with visa
we'll be able to achieve. It we have a.
Team that's constantly working to approve our product, our
solution. We've been working diligently
and continuously for the last two years developing the
solution. And.
(42:29):
We're ready to bring the solution in partnership with
Visa Advance and some other partners to different parts of
the world. Actores are different as part of
the Del Mundo. I need to ask this question, is
there any technology that you see like coming now that will
help you to go faster, to deliver the service better, to
(42:52):
help even more? Do you see like you know
anything at the moment exciting that could help you doing even
more, even better? I think blockchain technology,
we have to integrate new solution with blockchain.
cross-border payments for us is very important.
Beside it is, is very important cross-border issuing that is
(43:13):
also important for us. And in the other side, EI is, is
very important. Today we, we, we have delivering
some, some solution with EI to not only customer service, but
also for financial education. We want to launch in a couple of
months a new EI solution to customer service and financial
(43:34):
education. And how is blockchain helping
you? Blockchain is very important.
Also, we are exploring some solution with Visa, you know, to
attain disbursement and securityand transparency the
transactions too. And Rajeev, we have this
fantastic partnership with events say, how is this
partnership and partnerships like it kind of paving the way
for you and your team and the work that you want to go, go and
(43:57):
do? I think in many ways what we're
doing in Colombia with with Johnand Margaret is setting the
template for what we will do with similar organisations and
in other markets. So the Alias directory with John
talked about the whole experience of the customers, all
the learnings which we are taking from it will help us make
(44:18):
it a more global product and be able to help a wider range of
organisations. There are huge number of NGOs
from small to large across the world and I think what we're
learning here is so invaluable. It will help us do a much better
job and scaling it with our answer's help, but also with
other partners. We have one question that we
(44:40):
always ask. We'd like to know who you would
like to see on a future episode.You know what it will be for
financial inclusion. I think we'll be good, The Queen
Martima from Netherlands. That's come up on a she's come
up on a previous episode becauseone of our previous guests, I
(45:03):
think, had done some work with her.
OK. We haven't had Queen Maxima on,
but perhaps now. Well, listen, I think on that
note, we've just got to thank Margaret, John and of course,
Rajeev for coming on. Thank you for opening your arms
and welcoming us. Visa.
(45:26):
Visa and Advance are working hand in hand and we have nothing
but words of gratitude for this tremendous support we have
received. Thank you very much muchas.
Gracias. That's it from us this week.
To keep the conversation going, you can follow us on social
media. And of course, don't forget to
follow the show on Spotify and subscribe on YouTube.
(45:48):
And if you enjoyed what you heard today, leave us a review.
Tell your friends or better still, do both.
We'll be back next episode to explore more life change
innovations in digital finance. So wherever your travels take
you, remember to join us for thenext instalment of Money Travels
presented by Visa.
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