August 24, 2025 • 58 mins
Karen and Matt are back from their book tour in the UK and they got to have some real MonsterTalk moments! Loch Ness, Boleskine House and more plus Blake wrestles with gremlins!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Monster House Presents.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
A giant, hairy creature party parts.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
In Luckness, a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake
in the Highlands of Scotland. It's a creature known as
the Luckness Monster.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Monster Talk.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm
Blake Smith and.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm Karen Stolsner.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hey, they're Monster Talkers and welcome to a special, somewhat
spontaneous episode. While I'm putting the finishing touches on my
van meter visitor writing, we had the perfect opportunity to
switch gears for a bit. Karen and Matt had just
returned from the UK trip, where Karen's promoting her fantastic
new book bit The Journey of a Word. With the
memories of their adventures still fresh, we decided to jump
(01:23):
on a call and capture it all. And it was
meant to be a quick light chat, but as you'll
see by the episode's length, we had way too much
fun to keep it short. But a quick heads up
about the audio, the mischievous Grimlins of technology decided to
play little prank on us. Despite my fancy podcasting microphone
being ready to go. Our conferencing software, in its infinite
(01:46):
digital wisdom, decided to use my webcam's tiny built in
microphone for the entire call, and the result, Karen and
Matt sound wonderful and clear, while I sound like I'm
broadcasting from my pirate radio numbers station miles across the
border and several decades in the past. So I made
an executive decision rather than re recorder conversation that had
(02:07):
come across is so natural and fun, or to subject
you to my subpar efforts at trying to re record
just my bits, I decided to edit myself almost completely
out of this discussion. Think of it as an uninterrupted
feature presentation. Started Karen and Matt, and I'm just sort
of there. I don't know. In parts it works out
perfectly well because they are seasoned pros telling a great
(02:30):
story and with all the context you'll need. So this
episode is all about their journey, and I'm happy to
let them take the front and center stage. So don't worry.
The van meter visitor rite up is still on the way,
and we have even more tales from their trip across
the Pond coming as well, But for now, please enjoy
what I think is a wonderful conversation with Karen and
(02:50):
Matt more obstrutal. Hey there, Monster Talkers and you guys.
We're gonna be actually picking up our conversation with that
and Karen or Karen in that who recently just got
back to the United States from their trip to the UK.
We will pick up the research I've been doing on
(03:12):
I do want to talk about the van Meter monster.
That is such a classic.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sort.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I'm not even sure if it qualifies exactly as a cryptid,
but it sort of fits into that whole our terrosaur
is still alive thing, although I think that's the stretch
when you actually look at what's in the story. It's good.
It'll be a fun discussion.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So yeah, I'm looking forward to it. And we just
thought we better get back to the sequel of our
trip while we're still jet lagged and before we forget everything.
So as a quick recap, last time, we talked about
Enfield and the Black Monk, and we talked a little
bit about Bully Rectory, a little bit about Cambridge, and
a bit about Liverpool and certainly the further north. We
(03:52):
went beautiful, rich accent and but just different enough that
it was a little tricky for use, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But a lot of fun too. It was just listening
to these different accents over such a short distance. Was
was it was beautiful, It really was. But on top
of that, it put you in, you know that the
area so deeply. Yeah, and it's like, just like Karen
was saying, you can't walk very far without stumbling over history.
(04:24):
The accents I think really helped place you there as well, and.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Certainly had a lot of people from all around the world.
And I was just thinking about how we're going to
be talking about Scotland for this episode and how we
met up with Adrian Shine and obviously an Englishman who's
in Scotland. But you really had a lot of different accents.
A lot of times we'd hear the American accent too,
lots of American tourists.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Oh, I think we heard every accent. And that's one
of the big things is tourism is it's a huge,
you know, source of revenue for all these places, but
it's also in hacking people's way of life because there's
such an influx of tourism that it's difficult to move
(05:09):
around Cambridge. Oh boy, I was driving down a street
that I wasn't sure if it was a street that
I should be driving down because of the mass of
people walking down the middle of the street and they
were looking at me like I was wrong for being there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I asked about that as soon as you dropped us
off at Cambridge University Press Bookstore, I said, is this
a street that we can drive down? Absolutely, but the passengers,
the tourists there and the pedestrians will make you feel
like it's not. That's all it was. I mean, cobblestone
streets absolutely exquisite, but difficult to navigate with all of
the tourists. But then even being out in the middle
(05:48):
of nowhere, somewhere like Baalley Rectory in the town of Balley,
which is just in rural England, kind of on the
border of Essex and Suffolk, and it was still just
full of tourists everywhere you go, and a lot of
people who should be listening to Monster talk to because
(06:09):
wherever we went, we're going to be talking about again
Scotland and in Veness, so many Lockness Monster fans and
going out to Burlescan to so many fans of Aleister Crowley.
Really they should all be listening to our show.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Absolutely absolutely No.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Neither of you had been to like Ness before.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Ray No, No, I've been to England quite some time ago,
a couple of decades ago, but I had not made
it up to Scotland, so it was my first time
being there. And I have to say, I'm sorry to
all our English listeners, but i think Scotland was my
favorite country of the two in Great Britain because it
(06:50):
was just so beautiful and green and wild. In parts
it was just full of history. I mean, obviously England
is too, but it was just some areas were a
little bit more untouched and a fewer people, and just
remote and beautiful and green and rainy and perfect. You
(07:12):
would not think that it was summer. I would have thought,
not knowing, I would have thought it was winter. It
was that cold and rainy.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, my niece lives there in Edinburgh and I'm hoping
to go couch serve my way into that region. But
I just want to say congratulations, achievement and locked.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So that's not well, you know for many of us.
You know, you've got movies like Highlander, which one, as
we know, the Academy Award for the Greatest Film of
All Time, No.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
It didn't make a sequel to Highlander, but they're finally
rebooting it with Henry Cavell.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I love how you paved over that well, the Scottish, Egyptian, Chinese.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Oh yeah, Sean Connery's.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Really yeah, such a great character. But yeah, all of
you know, just being there, you know, because I grew
up with Highlander and loved the movie. I love and movies.
I admit the sequels were rough times at times.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
But I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
So right, right, and then the TV show I was
a huge fan of as well, So so I'm excited
to see what Henry Cavill does. But it was great
being there. It was so great being there. You see, the.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Extended European cut of Highlander has an extra scene where
it involves fighting Nazis. Have you seen that part? No,
so good, Well that you know they had the Queens song.
It's a kind of magic and right, actually the scene
explains that, you know, I don't know if you watch
(08:49):
the movie in the American cut, the woman who's working
with him at the antique shop, you I got the
impression she was a former lover whose age doubt, right,
So he's now he's more interested in this, you know,
younger antiquities expert, right, And no, that's like his daughter.
(09:10):
He rescues during World War two and they live to
get like he it's his daughter. That is completely unclear
in the American cut, so very cool scene and they
actually used the line it's a kind of magic and
it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Well, when you said that Queen song, I was thinking
of God saved the queen. But now I know what
you mean. But I want to say to you, I
don't know the other the other queen, the less important one.
But I don't know if Matt that you missed Blake's
pun or you deliberately overlooked it when he referenced the
(09:47):
achievement unlocked and I just wanted to note the photograph.
I believe he sent him a picture of this when
we went to Inverness and along the lock you had
this beautiful bridge and there were locks, all.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
The Scottish locks to the lot, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
That's yeah, all along the fencing and the bridge, just everywhere.
So there are lots of people like you out there, like.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Where there are people like me, it makes me nervous
need but I do hope they're out there. So I
just really want to say. One of the things that
was amazing were all the cemeteries, and it's it's interesting,
you know that you see headstones that dated back before
the American Revolutionary War, and a lot of these headstones
(10:42):
had skulls on them and which you just don't see.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, it turns out that the attitudes toward death at
that time in British history were focused more on memento
more and remember you will die. And then over the
like the next century, it started to turn more to
angels and cherubs to kind of be in favor of
resurrection and hope. So when you see those ones with
the skulls, it doesn't mean that they were a pirate
(11:08):
or something or there was something evil go on. It
was just a reminder that we are all mortal.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
That was very big during the Victorian era, but certainly
for me as an Australian. You go to a cemetery
and you see these graves that date back to the
eighteen eighties or the eighteen nineties and you think, wow,
in terms of white settlement or invasion, that is so old.
But to come to America, cemeteries are even older. But
(11:33):
to go to England, I mean sometimes we're going back
hundreds of years and it really is incredible. And there
were just cemeteries everywhere and all equally ornate and beautiful
and just very old.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It's so funny because I know so many single archaeologists
despite the fact that they're always dating.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So ow no, I We'll say one place she would
have loved was Dunblane. It was packed with such important
history that the cathedral was amazing, the museum was astonishing.
The age of the stuff that they had in this little, tiny,
(12:14):
cute museum was so impactful. And then the library.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You know, I'll include some photos, but what can you
say about the library, Karen.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
There are multiple libraries there, and but the one that
we're specific specifically talking about was a collection of books
collected by Robert Layton. He was the Bishop of Dunblane
back in the seventeenth century. So this is Scotland's oldest,
not oldest library, which is actually nearby too. There's another
(12:50):
beautiful library that we didn't make it to this trip,
but this is the oldest purpose built independent library. So
this was this guy's collection and we went in there.
It was absolutely fascinating, and the curators of the library
were just so giving their time. It's so excited to
have people there. One of them was having a very
(13:13):
lengthy chat with Blade about trains, and the other one
was helping me to find a number of books. So
I found a copy of Samuel Johnson's second edition of
his Dictionary of the English Language, so that was published
when he was still alive, and I had to go
and look up a particular word.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Kar what word is that?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Bitch? So I looked that up because I mean, obviously
I've written about it. I wanted to see this firsthand.
And so he did have some I think Matt sending
through a picture of the entry. Let me just have
a look at it. So it's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
The wording there was probably incuraging, so.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
It was it was funny because the the curator was
standing over me and saw me doing it and he
had a bit of a chuckles. Yeah. But the book
was massive, I mean truly heavy with the weight of knowledge,
and they I didn't have to wear gloves or anything.
They had a pillow that you could rest the books on.
(14:24):
But it was just cool to find this and to
see too, just the early publishing with the the s's
depicted as it's like, there are some rude words in
there if you look, but really interesting, so older versions
of the definition and how it's shifted over time, and
(14:46):
even then it's got the definition of a name of
reproach for a woman. But yeah, that was really cool
to see. And yeah, we looked looked also at because
we were able to take anything out that we wanted.
Everything was available for us to leave through. And I
had to look at a copy of a Bible too
that was translated into six different languages, and that was
(15:09):
really cool.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
So we're all researchers, and there is wonderfully convenient that
so much of this archival material is available digitally. It's indexed,
you can search it, you can do all this stuff online.
But there's something so amazing about the experience of touching antiquity,
(15:36):
to be able.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
To smelling the bulk and feeling it.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
People of the past held this material like this was
you know, it was hot new intelligence material for the
period of time from which it came. But for us
it also bears that sort of the collective weight of antiquity.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know, it's well, all of things had been so
Matt's sending more pictures through. There's a picture of a
page from a book of poetry by I think it's
an ode to a Haggis Robert Burns. So you can't
go to Scotland and not read some Robert Burns and
(16:17):
places them. Yeah. Yeah, But all of these books had
been read by the owner of the collection and he
had actually gone in there and signed the date that
he had acquired these books, so they're all being held
by him. And just the history contained in this place,
(16:38):
and it was just very overwhelming. You feel feel very
emotional in there, like you can cry seeing some of
these books and and just how beloved they were by
the owner and used. You know, they didn't just sit
there to look pretty. They were read and loved and
(16:58):
so it was a very movie experience to be there.
I would highly recommend Dunblane and Sterling where there's a
castle that is even locals will say is better than
Edinburgh Castle Sterling Castle to visit, and it is a
more affordable option compared to Glasgow or Edinburgh which are
very expensive. And during summer too, so many festivals were
(17:20):
taking place. It was very packed for of tourists and
very expensive to be there. But this town had some
wonderful coffee shops and hubs. I mean that's something I
certainly take away from our visit was just how fantastic
the pubs are there. It's a really great culture.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You know, I don't drink as a kind of a rule,
Ta Tiller, but while I was in Scotland, I drank.
That's all I can say. I was totally in the
culture and carrying kept going don't you want like half
(17:58):
that amount?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And I'm like, yeah, well I take the pint. Yeah,
I guess we should move on because we're only still
in kind of southern Scotland. Let's move further up.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Well, we went to Inverness next, and it was it
was pretty amazing. You know, there was so much Nassy
uh you know, representation everywhere and all absolutely they live
off that we needed to first take an excursion to
(18:30):
Bleskin House and the cemetery.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
We did a two parter season three episodes nineteen and
twenty on House of the Unholy, which is all about
Bileskin House and als.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Oh love that name and that was a ton of
mine for once. Yay, So yeah, bucket list stuff to
get there, But yeah, we didn't know what the hell
we were doing.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Did we met We just turned up, No, we did,
and it was like, it's a single lane road with
low goal suggest shooning down the road so fast, and
if you see a car coming, you need to stop
and figure out where you're going to pull over because
there's only every once in a while a little nook
to pull over.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
In little shoulder. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Oh, so it was harrowing to say the least, but
we sort of found a spot we could pull the
car over. We got out and we looked at the
cemetery first, and the cemetery was gorgeous, and so many
of the headstones had the name Fraser on it, and
it was you know, the ones that you could even
read it would say Frasier. But they were so old
(19:37):
and so beautiful and right there on the edge of lockness,
just gorgeous. And then up on the other side of
the road, completely covered up by foliage was blessed in house,
but you could not see it. Every once in a
while you get like an edge of the house or
something nothing recognizable. And there were warning signs everywhere, basically
(20:00):
trying to discur scourage efforts to get a better glimpse,
but one sign. Uh well, once I said warning, this
property is protected by anti climb paint.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
And I had never ever heard of that. Yeah. I
was almost tempted to try it just right to find out.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
But but it turns out that this anti climb paint
is a thing, and that's it's pretty popular in the UK.
It doesn't quite dry completely, so if you try to
climb on it, it's slippery, it will stain.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yes, so basically this fence is covered with wet paint.
Go ahead, buddy, you're gonna look stupid.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Right, Yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of what it is.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
So funny we.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Know where and what you were doing exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's because it magically spells out. I was an idiot
and tried to get into Bileskin house and all I
got was this stain t shirt.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
That paint unlited.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
No, that was a lens.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Moving on, folks, Immediately you listened to season three episodes
nineteen and twenty Monsters.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yes, yes, it'll all makes sense. So we hyped up
to the front gate while trying not to get hit
by speeding cars, and we peered through. We peered through
the gate and it began opening as if it was
welcoming us, and it was just kind of the wrought
iron gate there, and we looked at each other kind
of stunned, and then we realized a contractor's van was
(21:32):
rumbling right behind us.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, we were getting the brid compet treatment.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, we weren't. So we moved out of the way,
and I noticed they had a ring camera affixed to
the gate, so I hit the button and get a
very irritated American voice that answered.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
We're Americans. May wait, please come in.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
But.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
We're American too, And you know, we chatted for a
few moments, and he was really expressing that a lot
of what he called kooks were coming up and trying
to do devil rituals and they were, you know, and
he wanted to focus more on He's like, if you're
you know, media, then you need to make an appointment
to do these kind of things, and you have to
(22:13):
sign all this documentation, make sure you only talk about
these specific things, and and you know, he was definitely
very guarded, but he wanted more of the Jacobite history
and and things like that to be talked about with
the House and uh and for some reason, also Jimmy
Page but uh.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
More on that in a minute.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
More on that a minute. But but he oddly enough said, okay,
I'll tell you what for. If you'll make you know,
a donation, you know, for X amount, you can come
back at the end of the day and I'll let
you come up and see the house nice. And we
are like, score, this is fantastic. But you know, it
(22:57):
was a big pain for us because then we had
to drive back up to Timverness and then wait there
for a little while, and then.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Drive went back down down there and I said, I'll
never do this again. And we were doing it again.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
You want to do it? But good lord with a haul, right,
you know?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So yeah, yeah, So so we get down we do
it is it is. Uh So we got down there,
we uh he you know, he was already with the
little thing for us to make the donation payment, you know,
with our phones and anything. And we got out and
you know, he made it very clear that he cannot
(23:34):
let us in the house because they're doing construction and
hard hats and whale laws and all that kind.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Of interject from please. So when you were speaking with him,
he was talking about how he really wanted to distance
the house from Alistair Crowley and from the Devil worshipers,
Satan worshippers and from that crowd. And yet when we
turned up there were a few other people if he'd
made a suitable donation to the house, and they were
(24:02):
kind of dressed, decked out in stuff with all different
kinds of occult symbols, and I'm like, okay, this doesn't
add up. And we got chatting with them, and they
were a French couple and they were from I can't
remember which organization it was, but it was an association
for Alistair Crowley. And so I mean more from a
(24:23):
historical perspective, but I still think practitioners of the occult.
But it was just very ironic to me. I thought, Okay,
there were very nice people and very passionate, so it
was really interesting to get to talk with these people
too that weren't very knowledgeable.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah. So we walk around the front of the house
and it's they have done a beautiful job of restoring
the house. And it's they even replaced and fixed and
made look better the door that Alistair Crowley had punched
into one.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Of the walls for the ritual.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, for the ritual. So they redid that and he
even pointed that out even the door of you know,
Alistair Curley, and I thought, why are you talking about
Alistair Curling when you don't want to talk about Alistair Curley.
But there was a lot of that, yeah, yeah, and
then and then you know, we walked around the other
side and it was the side that they were restoring beautifully.
That you when you see the picture of Jimmy Page
(25:22):
with the beard and everything kind of standing in front
of the house, it's that shot. And so I made
sure and I got, you know, Blade and Karen in
a picture there and thought, you know, I can superimpose
them into the picture with Jimmy Page now.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That I have this, But I could, but I will
not let you.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, Karen didn't think that was as cool as I thought.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I covered this in our special two part coverage of BILESKT.
But the I mean Crawley wasn't doing devil worship. He
was actually trying to summon a guardian angel. So it's like, yes,
like so much shallow occultism, like you know, plugged them
from you know, rock music in that scene and sort
of you know, the people who were into chaos, magic
(26:05):
and that kind of stuff. But he was doing very
ritualized work, you know, from the Guacia oricia. So I
don't know. To me, it's like if you bother to
get a little bit deeper, what was going on there
was not what the common you know, belief or would
have you anyway. So right, it might be they want
(26:27):
to get rid of occultism. You would lose a lot
of revenue. But maybe just maybe remind people that it's
not the devil. It's not simple binary god versus devil
stuff going on. It's a little bit more complicated than that.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes, a bit more too.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah, this is real conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So so you know, remember, you know, we're not allowed
in the house because of the construction. So he opens
the door ands has come on in and we're like, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So and it's ed it is. You're stepping over, you know,
to before's.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And roof again. This is like it had really been damaged.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
I guess we really, Oh, the restoration is perfect, and
they're really having to uh straddle a very difficult situation
where they're obviously requiring a lot of support because when
they purchased it.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
They purchased a bunch of ruins. There was after the fires,
there was nothing just part of the facade of the
house really a shell. As you say, there wasn't much there,
and so they have I think, even with all the
money that they have backing them, they have needed support
from the Scottish government. So they've really had to kind
of spread themselves thin with their mission. In some regards.
(27:52):
They talk about wanting to conserve the plants in the
area and so they've planted a lot of wildflowers are different, yeah, nice,
but also the animals in the area too. They have
a number of animals. What were they there? There was
(28:13):
a particular kind.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Of squirrel and red squirrel, right, and a new spine
something new and right.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Luckless monster. And so they're really having to I think,
turn themselves inside and out to appease various organizations and
groups so that they can get funding. And I do
understand that, but I really do think they They've done
a lot of research into the history of the house
and they really know what they're doing, and I think
(28:46):
it's ultimately going to be a success. I think that's
going to continue. And talk a bit more about the
different rooms. It's astonishing.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Photos you sent me were so positively heartening. I use
that often, but I I just it cheered me up
immensely to see that it was not just a burntout husk.
I was really happy. So I do want to hear
all about oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, Well, and that's the thing is they, you know,
like Karen saying, they're straddling this, this whole thing. So
there's one side of the house is really kind of
dedicated to restoring it to its original uh sort of
look and and theme, and then the other side of
the house they're sort of restoring a little bit more
(29:32):
toward the Alistair Crowley Egyptian sort of theme. So it
is kind of bizarre that they're wanting to distance themselves
but at the same time welcoming that.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
That they need to leverage that to study Afloat.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I agree, yeah, so it's it's a bizarre, bizarre thing.
But I don't know, did I send you over the Yeah,
I think I did. The picture of from well in inside,
I got to look out the same window that both
Alistair Crowley and Jimmy Page would have looked out at Lockness.
(30:09):
Oh my god, you know, and that is just really
a moment for me to be able to do that.
It was it was definitely crazy. But he when we're
done going through the place, which is just being restored
amazingly beautiful, beautifully, and he was thinking that they were
going to be right around October. Wow, But I don't.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Know, getting pushed out. It's going to be tough.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's going to be tough.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
They got a lot more supposed to be spring twenty
twenty five, and I think that that's getting pushed out.
They aren't starting to post events sort of in their name,
in the name of the foundation, but a lot of
those are virtual. They had a historian, Andrew Wiseman, who
is academic and did a lot of research into the house,
(30:59):
I mean, particularly into Crowley, but also into the area
because even though you have these associations of Crowley and
Jimmy Page, it's certainly the history goes back to the
phrases and goes back to the eighteen hundreds and even earlier.
So they really do seem to have it all covered
(31:21):
and there some rooms are dedicated to Jimmy Page and
that era. And this fellow that we spoke with, he
talked about how they had reached out to Jimmy Page
on a number of occasions and that he just had
not responded, he hadn't shown any interest in being involved.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
The projected girls were there, so.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well yeah, really no, I told them we take care
of it. We get all of Jimmy, We got a great.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Poll and contacts.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yeah, no problem. Seemed like one of those things where
it seems like they would be doing a reality TV
show or something documentary or some thing.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Probably, well they have done. They have done some mini documentaries,
so they have a YouTube channel and they do have
some interviews on there and some talks and events. But
they're really setting this up so that it can be
I guess, oh, really lots of things within this one building,
(32:22):
so they can to host weddings, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Events like a fantastic.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
They're going to dedicate one wing because the place is
bloody enormous. They're going to dedicate one wing to a
kind of B and B where people can stay there.
I'm sure it will not be cheap, going to be
different areas dedicated to different things. And of course they're
going to have a large library, and so they were
talking about how, oh, you could just come in and
(32:50):
sit here and read. But I don't know exactly how
they're going to do this because it really seems like
they're still formulating who they are and what they're going
to be, because again, there's so many different chunks of
history that are encapsulated within this place. It is truly remarkable.
I just I hate town Studio scientific, but just the
(33:13):
energy in the place, just going there and just feeling
all that has happened and being able to see the lock,
the lock in front of you. There's this amazing yard too,
with what would you call it now it's like a.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Pond, Yeah, it's it's you know, they're trying to sort
of revitalize some of the wetland life there, so they
have kind of fixed this pond that was back behind
that was a mess before. I all send over a
photo that. But yeah, it's just incredible. And one of
(33:47):
the pictures I sent you a minute ago kind of
showed some of the slate that had just been delivered,
and all the shingles are made of this slate because
it was what was originally put on.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
There when my father and I were restored. We were
tearing down old houses here in Georgia to sell the
material for restorations of other other houses, and slate is
such a great roofing material. So we dealt with that
a lot. It's fragile, it's very brittle, but it works
(34:20):
very well for Keith and the Rain. Now, so yeah,
totally familiar with that. The folklore of this is that
Crowley was trying to summon his guardian angel, and part
of that ritual in the Guecia is to you have
to like bind the lords of Hell and you know,
so demons. So it's like, yes, there is a demonic
(34:42):
component that it would not be a Satanic ritual. There's
a lot of stuff that happens in demonology. If you
go back to our Witchcraft and Magic series, which has
been very sporadic, but this there is a sort of
Judeo Christian framing for a lot of this stuff. So
some of the books that you would think might be
just straight up demonic turn out to be really about
(35:05):
God and Jesus and using the power of God and
Jesus to bind demons as worker agents for you. So
let's just say that whatever you might have heard from
folklore is probably not exactly accurate. But anyway, the folklore
is that that Crawley opened the door to let these
(35:26):
demons of Hell, these princes of Hell, be part of
this ritual, and then he left because there were some
political things going on with the Golden Dawn, which is
a magical so he leaves and never finishes the ritual,
and he never sort of closes the door and rebinds
these princes of Hell back to their realm, so they
(35:49):
might still be running loose. And I ran a call
of Cthulhu One Shot Night Adventure, which is a role
play game based on the works of Ace F. Love Craft,
wherein UH I posited that the monster in the lock
was actually not a pleasosaur. It was this entity that
(36:10):
had been left out when.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Crawley pngured up by That was.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
A fun game, but there's probably.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Some and I I gotta tell you, Adrian Shine had
a comment on that.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Really I want to hear as I say, the closing
out that ritual performatively on video UH for them as
a fundraiser. Right, Honestly, it's like so many people think
that that door has been left open. Close it. I mean,
I don't think it's real anyway, but close it.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
That's a genius idea. And so Keith, the this curator,
I think a part owner. Uh. He did want a
link to any media that would result from our visits.
So yeah, if he hears this, then that's a early idea.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
And Keith was he was amazing. He was so generous
with his time and he was just so full of
information and he was it was astounding, It was really great.
So we definitely appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
So if you could quickly pause them with the cat
in and then we should probably has changed characters.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
So we've talked about a Robert, we've talked about plants,
when we've talked about pages. Well, this is not the moon.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
This is not Keith Blade tagged along with us, obviously,
even though I think he would have rather stay at
the place that we were staying in the house and
just play roadblocks. But we dragged him along and he
couldn't totally understand at ten the gravity of what we
were doing or where we were going. We did explain
it to him, but I think in coming years and
(37:50):
decades he will truly be able to appreciate what he
got to see at such a young age. But yeah,
just as we're driving back there again, why are we
going here again? And let me get this straight. So
this is the place where Keith Richards lived, and who
did he say that? Keith Richards lived with So the.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Guy who sings, uh, don't worry be happy.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, so I don't know he's that together, but that
was his understanding of the events. But I think he
even he did appreciate just the grounds and the lock
and and everything. But we all had a good time
for different reasons.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Totally, totally well.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
The guy that things don't worry, be happy, he has
a Scottish name McFerrin, right, so yes, oh yeah, Bobby mcfair.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I think Barrel Pharrell or whatever. But right, yeah, that's
the other happened Matt seeing the Proclaimers the whole time
we're in Scots.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Oh my god, my wife loves five hundred miles so much,
so much, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I would have been a hit. Then we're now leaving
Inverness to uh we were going to go drop into
Drumna Drocket, which is the sort of the Lockness monster capital.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
It is.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
It is totally yeah, And you know.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
The thing is is we knew we were going to
have a cup of coffee there, and we knew that
it was going to be overrun with tourists. So we
stop off at this place about twenty minutes outside of
Drum to Drocket, nice little village. I can't remember the
name of it, but we had a cup of coffee
there in city something yeah. Yeah. But they had some great,
(39:34):
you know, highland cattle out there that were adorable.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, oli, very iconic in the area.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
They have like a like croton Yeah, okay, yeahs yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, they're they're very furry and it's it's it's there
was as many little things that you could buy with
that imagery on it as there was the Lockness Monster.
So it's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Cows and cryptis.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, cows and cryptics. There's a title for an episode.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I heard that.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
So anyway, so as we're sitting there having our coffee,
Karen gets an email saying, oh, Adrian Shane would love
to meet you for coffee.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
That's so fair.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Well, here's the thing. So when we were planning the trip,
he did offer, oh, look, if you're ever in town,
swing by and say hi. I don't think he ever
anticipated that anyone would take him up on it, And
so I got in contact with his lovely wife, who
communicates on his behalf, does all of his pr Marilyn Yeah,
(40:41):
and does some illustrations too for his books. And so
I reached out to her and I was astonished when
she got right back and said absolutely, and it just
fit in perfectly with our travels and our timing. But
when push came to shove, they were having some car
troubles and had to go to Inverness, and so I thought, Okay,
this isn't going to work out. I'm so glad that
(41:01):
the whole Bleskent thing worked out because we won't get
to see him. And then we got a call up
at the last minute and we happened to be about
ten minutes away from Drumna Drocket, so we headed down
there and it was very difficult to find parking. The
place is just jam packed full of people. But we
walked into this little coffee shop and there he was,
(41:23):
just sitting in the corner, you like, Schotty Santa Claus
Hive him a mile away.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And I can't stop thinking of Gandalf when I see him.
It's the Gandalf Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yeah, a little yeah with a slightly yellowed beard from smoking.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Well, it's funny because I'm going to send you over
one of these sort of pieces of imagery that is
everywhere in Drumna drank st nicotine. So yeah, so yeah,
I just sent you over that picture and this is
(42:00):
what you know. He is a rock star there, you know,
because he's so recognizable, and I mean we're being looked
at like who are they because they're like getting to
sit with him.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
People were constantly approaching him. So as we're sitting there
having an Equipiti, people were coming over and talking to him.
And when we were outside with him later on, can
I get a photograph with you? And just he was.
He's very beloved there. Absolutely, he's associated with the area
and it's part of the lore.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
And his generosity with his time was amazing. He would
have sat with us all day if he could have.
He was great. And you know, he was talking with
Blade back and forth. Now, Blade had brought a book
along with him that he had got from school from
the Is It Real? Series and it's about the Lockness
Monster and you flip it open and there's a picture
(42:54):
of Adrian Shine and he was happy to sign it.
And Blade was that affected. Blade, he was like I
met a true rockstar.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
The day before he's in Jimmy Page's house and whatever.
Keith Richards, you know, Bobby McPherrin whoever it was, Yeah, proclaimers. Here,
he's he's seeing someone that he recognizes and never thought
he was going to meet much less get a signature
and a photogo with, So very exciting for him. But yeah,
(43:26):
Adrian was interesting because as we were talking, he said
that he absolutely loved being on Talking Monsters, and.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Well he got a chuckle when I came over with
my cup of tea that I disordered, and I think, Matt,
you were just talking about him and how we kind
of came across him and all of that, and I said, yes,
that I was enlisted to talk on an episode of
History's Greatest Mysteries for History dot com and the HISTORYTV
(43:59):
and that they had really wanted him instead of me.
I was a poor substitute for him. So he thought
that was refly.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And we did talk about the Lockness Monster a little bit,
but what he really wanted to talk about was linguistics
with Karen, and that was a lot of fun to
just watch his excitement.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
We were talking about swear. So he said, my wife
looked you up and I saw that you had written
a number of books, and so I knew he was
referring to bitch because that's kind of plastered a little
over my main page at the moment. But we had
a really interesting discussion about language and about discriminatory language
(44:43):
and prejudice, and so he had some slightly different ideas
to me at times, but I think he was open
minded and we had a really interesting discussion about linguistics.
But it was surprising because we talked less about the
Locknest Monster.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Well, you know, I had mentioned about the whole idea
of Aleister Crowley, you know, because we told him, you know,
we were just over at Bileskin House, and he was like, oh, yeah,
you know, yeah, a little bit like I don't know
what to say about that. And then I was like,
you know, what do you think about the idea that
he you know, Olster Curley didn't finish that ritual and
(45:18):
the Lockness Monster is one of the entities that came
in through that really Yeah, And his his very profound
answer was no.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
He got that short. Yeah, but he did find it
amusing too. So he was just a very jolly fellow
to talk with. And as Matt said, he really spent
a long time with us and Frida. At the end
he said, is there anything that you want to discuss
or any other questions you have and asked Blade to
He was such a gentleman, and he is working on
(45:53):
a new book but more about the cultural aspects of
the Lockdest Monster. And he said he's very eager to
come back on to Monster talking to talk with us
about that, even before the book comes out. He said
he was at an age where he couldn't wait for
the book to come back.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
If it is a real creature, we know now that
it emerged from the plasticcene era. Right bucket list item,
you guys knocks it out of the park. I hope
I get to be over this from there and make
you make those connections myself. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, you will, absolutely, and I'd go back again for sure.
It was interesting to see the lock in person too,
because we know that he talks about weights, but just
to see the currents. The currents were very, very rapid
and the water was ice cold, and but the currents
(46:45):
were just moving so fast. And to see them too,
they really had a nesty like kind of wave too.
But didn't they match.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
In our interview that yeah, yeah, there are.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
So many different Lockness monsters in terms of explanations, because yeah,
I was just blade kept spotting them all the time.
There's a lockness monster. There's lots of things that could
be construed that way if you were a believer, and Madam,
you've got the picture of that was a shop front,
lots of stores selling kilts and oh yeah, and all
(47:24):
kinds of memorial the Yes, I'll send that over.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I was going to send over one other thing because
we had another episode that we had done recently about Bothy's.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Yeah we did.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, I think we were near the White Laggered by
White Lag, but we didn't make it there because it
is a bit of a trick from there and we
kind of had to stick to our itinerary our schedule.
But we did go to a pub that was a
former Bothy and that was a lot of fun. I
(47:58):
can't say all of the locals are always friendly all
of the time, are they, Matt. I think they didn't
have much patience for tourists there.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Again, likeness has locks. This is the other kind of
locks they have. They have like canal system that connects.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Yes, I was going to raise that. In Fort Augustus
there was an amazing canal with these kind of bridges
that would open up to let chips through so predominantly
there it is here but where of my wife, but
nowadays predominantly fishing. Ah and and that's the I think
(48:37):
the main industry around there. But yeah, those channels are
the canals are just amazing, really beautiful, and so you're
not used for military purposes anymore, but everything's have fought
along their fort Augustus fought Williams are there?
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Let me try that again. Are there are still portages available?
Can you take a boat up the lock and come?
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yes? Oh yes, they're very popular. I mean hordes of
tourists and gifts shops and uh, pipers playing bagpipes.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Just yeah, don't play amazing grace. Why did you even pick.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
You know what we heard there mull of Kintar Paul McCartney,
and I thought, oh so yeah, there are lots of
pipers around, and stores trying to purchase people's bagpipes too,
selling kilts and just hearten everything you can think of.
(49:53):
I saw a beautiful hip flask that had a tartan
around it that looked for the smith. Tartan could not
find it for you, but we've got you some other
goodies that they need to say.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Family is apparently from at least my dad's side of
the family is from this region. I mean, not literally
from the White Mass but yeah, they're Scottish.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, oh, I'm sure we've got some Scottish blood to
mine's mostly Irish, but a little bit of English, a
bit of Scottish and Matt as well, like a lot
of us Anglos here.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah, but we told you that she always thought we
were German, but I'm betting on Welsh.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
We've got German too. Yeah, we've got Austrian Austrian. Uh.
But yeah, we went through some incredible museums and everywhere
we would go, Oh, we get so many Aussies coming
through here, and they have their books of their genealogy
and they're traced back to Scottish history and mine's mostly
(50:54):
kind of Western European most of my history. But yeah,
they said a lot of a lot of Australians coming through.
The Australian accent was very prominent, wasn't it, Matt. But
no one until where I'm from. I'm a citizen of
the world. Sometimes they and I had people say things
like sometimes I thought you when I met you, I
thought you were American, And then the more you talked
(51:14):
I thought New.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
Zealand Australia, where if I could pass for America and
if I use my house accent.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Blade was showing me displaying his Texan accent today. It
was very impressive.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Oh cool, Yeah, obviously, you know not to make fun
of any region, but it is nifty how you could
be speaking the same language, but your accent can place
you into a physical location.
Speaker 7 (51:45):
I know, speaking They always said Tolkien could take a classroom,
have a have a student speak a sentence or two,
and then you know, within ten or fifteen miles, tell
them where they came from, which is astonishing.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
That's impressive because many years ago, when I was visiting
students and then a visiting scholar at University of California, Berkeley,
I attended an event and was held by a number
of phonologists and when I got chatting with the person
who was heating it, I won't name this person, they're
(52:19):
not working there anymore, but that he introduced me as
coming from the other side of the Atlantic, and I said, oh,
the Pacific. So I thought that was interesting that someone
who was an expert. And again I'm not being fair
because academics are experts in very specific small areas, but
(52:40):
even he had pegged me for being English.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Well I blame I mean, the rise of broadcast media
has definitely affected how people how accurate that language specification
for origin can be, because I know from my perspective.
We talked about this before. I specifically tried to get
(53:05):
rid of my Southern accent, just because there's a prejudice
against Southern people that they're not as intelligent, which I
think is probably.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
It's unfair, probably stereotyping, but stereotypes.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
You know, I was such a redneck that I think
it diminished my opportunity, so I tried to you know,
I tried to cleanse it for my palate, so I
slipped back into it whenever I talked to my parents.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
But you know, I, well, that's unfortunate because you know,
you break that mold, and it is the accent is stigmatized,
and it is unfair because it's it's not true. It
doesn't apply to everyone I talked.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
He's from Alabama and talks like an absolute NASCAR you know,
cheap seats guy, but he is really really smart, and
you know it's if you lean into those prejudices, you
would never let him do an interview you know, for anything,
(54:09):
judge or it's accent exactly.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
But we should probably wrap things up. I think we're
going well over time, all.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Right, we'll wrap Blake, I can't remember, and I even
listened to the episode, and I don't remember. Did I
talk extensively about Saint Albans and the Holy Well?
Speaker 3 (54:27):
Or did we just talk about this entirely online? Okay,
which was really cool, by the way, because I was like,
what do you what? What? Holy whale? Sorry, your whale?
Speaker 2 (54:40):
A little bit of my accent there? Well, I can.
I can send over a few photos of that too.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
The funny thing is, if you want to have news
stories for your friends, you've got to go have adventures.
I tell my friendsiness all the time we get together
and we're just telling the same stories over and over again.
Do you want to have you stories? Go do new stuff.
So I really appreciate getting out.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
There see the world.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah, oh. We had a fantastic time, and we certainly
want to go back someday. Because I thought, well, this
is the trip of a lifetime, and then I thought, well,
why can't I come back someday. It's not like, oh,
well I've done this now there are lots of other
things I want to do and see, but I would
love to go back.
Speaker 3 (55:22):
Yeah, I'm not envious at all. It's just a bucket list.
I'm that I also would like to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Well, your turn.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
Yeah, I need, I need to makes a month in
the UK because there's so many things I want to do.
But I appreciate every one of your photos, every one
of your stories is delightful and I hope the listeners
enjoy them as well.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Thank you, And yeah, we'll definitely have more episodes as
a result of this, so we can delve into some
of the things that we saw along the way.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Yeah, we haven't even gotten so that there's there's more
to come.
Speaker 4 (55:56):
You've been listening to Monster Doc, the science show about
my Monsters. I'm Blake Smith.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
And I'm Karen Stolzner.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
You've been listening to Karen and Matt recounting their amazing
trip to Scotland for Karen's book tour promoting Bitch, the
Journey of a Word. I'm so thrilled they got to
go see Lockness, meet the legendary Adrian Shine, and visit
the amazing Buleskin House. And believe me, there's more to come.
My phone was lighting up with these amazing photos the
whole time they were gone, so be sure and check
(56:26):
our show notes and the monster Talk Facebook group to
see those for yourself. We hope you've enjoyed this episode
of Monster Talk. Each episode we strive to bring you
the very best in monster related content, with a focus
on bringing scientific skepticism into the conversation. If you enjoy
Monster Talk, we now have a variety of ways to
support the show, all with convenient links at monster talk
(56:49):
dot org forwarde slash support. That's monster talk dot org
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Speaker 6 (57:06):
With our research. We love used books very much, so
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And finally, without spending any money at all, you can
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(57:28):
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Speaker 3 (57:35):
Monster Talks theme music is by the brilliant peach Stealing Monkeys.
Though a few of my world class pawns were the
tragic casualties of this week's microphone snap, you have no fear.
I'll always make more. And whether that's a hopeful promise
or dire threat, I guess depends on your perspective, but
my wife definitely has opinions on that
Speaker 1 (58:42):
This has been a Monster House presentation.
Monster House Presents.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
A giant, hairy creature party parts.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
In Luckness, a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake
in the Highlands of Scotland. It's a creature known as
the Luckness Monster.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Monster Talk.
Speaker 4 (00:56):
Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters. I'm
Blake Smith and.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
I'm Karen Stolsner.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Hey, they're Monster Talkers and welcome to a special, somewhat
spontaneous episode. While I'm putting the finishing touches on my
van meter visitor writing, we had the perfect opportunity to
switch gears for a bit. Karen and Matt had just
returned from the UK trip, where Karen's promoting her fantastic
new book bit The Journey of a Word. With the
memories of their adventures still fresh, we decided to jump
(01:23):
on a call and capture it all. And it was
meant to be a quick light chat, but as you'll
see by the episode's length, we had way too much
fun to keep it short. But a quick heads up
about the audio, the mischievous Grimlins of technology decided to
play little prank on us. Despite my fancy podcasting microphone
being ready to go. Our conferencing software, in its infinite
(01:46):
digital wisdom, decided to use my webcam's tiny built in
microphone for the entire call, and the result, Karen and
Matt sound wonderful and clear, while I sound like I'm
broadcasting from my pirate radio numbers station miles across the
border and several decades in the past. So I made
an executive decision rather than re recorder conversation that had
(02:07):
come across is so natural and fun, or to subject
you to my subpar efforts at trying to re record
just my bits, I decided to edit myself almost completely
out of this discussion. Think of it as an uninterrupted
feature presentation. Started Karen and Matt, and I'm just sort
of there. I don't know. In parts it works out
perfectly well because they are seasoned pros telling a great
(02:30):
story and with all the context you'll need. So this
episode is all about their journey, and I'm happy to
let them take the front and center stage. So don't worry.
The van meter visitor rite up is still on the way,
and we have even more tales from their trip across
the Pond coming as well, But for now, please enjoy
what I think is a wonderful conversation with Karen and
(02:50):
Matt more obstrutal. Hey there, Monster Talkers and you guys.
We're gonna be actually picking up our conversation with that
and Karen or Karen in that who recently just got
back to the United States from their trip to the UK.
We will pick up the research I've been doing on
(03:12):
I do want to talk about the van Meter monster.
That is such a classic.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Sort.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I'm not even sure if it qualifies exactly as a cryptid,
but it sort of fits into that whole our terrosaur
is still alive thing, although I think that's the stretch
when you actually look at what's in the story. It's good.
It'll be a fun discussion.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
So yeah, I'm looking forward to it. And we just
thought we better get back to the sequel of our
trip while we're still jet lagged and before we forget everything.
So as a quick recap, last time, we talked about
Enfield and the Black Monk, and we talked a little
bit about Bully Rectory, a little bit about Cambridge, and
a bit about Liverpool and certainly the further north. We
(03:52):
went beautiful, rich accent and but just different enough that
it was a little tricky for use, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
But a lot of fun too. It was just listening
to these different accents over such a short distance. Was
was it was beautiful, It really was. But on top
of that, it put you in, you know that the
area so deeply. Yeah, and it's like, just like Karen
was saying, you can't walk very far without stumbling over history.
(04:24):
The accents I think really helped place you there as well, and.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
Certainly had a lot of people from all around the world.
And I was just thinking about how we're going to
be talking about Scotland for this episode and how we
met up with Adrian Shine and obviously an Englishman who's
in Scotland. But you really had a lot of different accents.
A lot of times we'd hear the American accent too,
lots of American tourists.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Oh, I think we heard every accent. And that's one
of the big things is tourism is it's a huge,
you know, source of revenue for all these places, but
it's also in hacking people's way of life because there's
such an influx of tourism that it's difficult to move
(05:09):
around Cambridge. Oh boy, I was driving down a street
that I wasn't sure if it was a street that
I should be driving down because of the mass of
people walking down the middle of the street and they
were looking at me like I was wrong for being there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I asked about that as soon as you dropped us
off at Cambridge University Press Bookstore, I said, is this
a street that we can drive down? Absolutely, but the passengers,
the tourists there and the pedestrians will make you feel
like it's not. That's all it was. I mean, cobblestone
streets absolutely exquisite, but difficult to navigate with all of
the tourists. But then even being out in the middle
(05:48):
of nowhere, somewhere like Baalley Rectory in the town of Balley,
which is just in rural England, kind of on the
border of Essex and Suffolk, and it was still just
full of tourists everywhere you go, and a lot of
people who should be listening to Monster talk to because
(06:09):
wherever we went, we're going to be talking about again
Scotland and in Veness, so many Lockness Monster fans and
going out to Burlescan to so many fans of Aleister Crowley.
Really they should all be listening to our show.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Absolutely absolutely No.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Neither of you had been to like Ness before.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Ray No, No, I've been to England quite some time ago,
a couple of decades ago, but I had not made
it up to Scotland, so it was my first time
being there. And I have to say, I'm sorry to
all our English listeners, but i think Scotland was my
favorite country of the two in Great Britain because it
(06:50):
was just so beautiful and green and wild. In parts
it was just full of history. I mean, obviously England
is too, but it was just some areas were a
little bit more untouched and a fewer people, and just
remote and beautiful and green and rainy and perfect. You
(07:12):
would not think that it was summer. I would have thought,
not knowing, I would have thought it was winter. It
was that cold and rainy.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah, my niece lives there in Edinburgh and I'm hoping
to go couch serve my way into that region. But
I just want to say congratulations, achievement and locked.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So that's not well, you know for many of us.
You know, you've got movies like Highlander, which one, as
we know, the Academy Award for the Greatest Film of
All Time, No.
Speaker 3 (07:41):
It didn't make a sequel to Highlander, but they're finally
rebooting it with Henry Cavell.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
I love how you paved over that well, the Scottish, Egyptian, Chinese.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Oh yeah, Sean Connery's.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Really yeah, such a great character. But yeah, all of
you know, just being there, you know, because I grew
up with Highlander and loved the movie. I love and movies.
I admit the sequels were rough times at times.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
But I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
So right, right, and then the TV show I was
a huge fan of as well, So so I'm excited
to see what Henry Cavill does. But it was great
being there. It was so great being there. You see, the.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
Extended European cut of Highlander has an extra scene where
it involves fighting Nazis. Have you seen that part? No,
so good, Well that you know they had the Queens song.
It's a kind of magic and right, actually the scene
explains that, you know, I don't know if you watch
(08:49):
the movie in the American cut, the woman who's working
with him at the antique shop, you I got the
impression she was a former lover whose age doubt, right,
So he's now he's more interested in this, you know,
younger antiquities expert, right, And no, that's like his daughter.
(09:10):
He rescues during World War two and they live to
get like he it's his daughter. That is completely unclear
in the American cut, so very cool scene and they
actually used the line it's a kind of magic and
it's really cool.
Speaker 1 (09:25):
Well, when you said that Queen song, I was thinking
of God saved the queen. But now I know what
you mean. But I want to say to you, I
don't know the other the other queen, the less important one.
But I don't know if Matt that you missed Blake's
pun or you deliberately overlooked it when he referenced the
(09:47):
achievement unlocked and I just wanted to note the photograph.
I believe he sent him a picture of this when
we went to Inverness and along the lock you had
this beautiful bridge and there were locks, all.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
The Scottish locks to the lot, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
That's yeah, all along the fencing and the bridge, just everywhere.
So there are lots of people like you out there, like.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Where there are people like me, it makes me nervous
need but I do hope they're out there. So I
just really want to say. One of the things that
was amazing were all the cemeteries, and it's it's interesting,
you know that you see headstones that dated back before
the American Revolutionary War, and a lot of these headstones
(10:42):
had skulls on them and which you just don't see.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Well, it turns out that the attitudes toward death at
that time in British history were focused more on memento
more and remember you will die. And then over the
like the next century, it started to turn more to
angels and cherubs to kind of be in favor of
resurrection and hope. So when you see those ones with
the skulls, it doesn't mean that they were a pirate
(11:08):
or something or there was something evil go on. It
was just a reminder that we are all mortal.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
That was very big during the Victorian era, but certainly
for me as an Australian. You go to a cemetery
and you see these graves that date back to the
eighteen eighties or the eighteen nineties and you think, wow,
in terms of white settlement or invasion, that is so old.
But to come to America, cemeteries are even older. But
(11:33):
to go to England, I mean sometimes we're going back
hundreds of years and it really is incredible. And there
were just cemeteries everywhere and all equally ornate and beautiful
and just very old.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
It's so funny because I know so many single archaeologists
despite the fact that they're always dating.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So ow no, I We'll say one place she would
have loved was Dunblane. It was packed with such important
history that the cathedral was amazing, the museum was astonishing.
The age of the stuff that they had in this little, tiny,
(12:14):
cute museum was so impactful. And then the library.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
You know, I'll include some photos, but what can you
say about the library, Karen.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
There are multiple libraries there, and but the one that
we're specific specifically talking about was a collection of books
collected by Robert Layton. He was the Bishop of Dunblane
back in the seventeenth century. So this is Scotland's oldest,
not oldest library, which is actually nearby too. There's another
(12:50):
beautiful library that we didn't make it to this trip,
but this is the oldest purpose built independent library. So
this was this guy's collection and we went in there.
It was absolutely fascinating, and the curators of the library
were just so giving their time. It's so excited to
have people there. One of them was having a very
(13:13):
lengthy chat with Blade about trains, and the other one
was helping me to find a number of books. So
I found a copy of Samuel Johnson's second edition of
his Dictionary of the English Language, so that was published
when he was still alive, and I had to go
and look up a particular word.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
Kar what word is that?
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Bitch? So I looked that up because I mean, obviously
I've written about it. I wanted to see this firsthand.
And so he did have some I think Matt sending
through a picture of the entry. Let me just have
a look at it. So it's very interesting.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
The wording there was probably incuraging, so.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
It was it was funny because the the curator was
standing over me and saw me doing it and he
had a bit of a chuckles. Yeah. But the book
was massive, I mean truly heavy with the weight of knowledge,
and they I didn't have to wear gloves or anything.
They had a pillow that you could rest the books on.
(14:24):
But it was just cool to find this and to
see too, just the early publishing with the the s's
depicted as it's like, there are some rude words in
there if you look, but really interesting, so older versions
of the definition and how it's shifted over time, and
(14:46):
even then it's got the definition of a name of
reproach for a woman. But yeah, that was really cool
to see. And yeah, we looked looked also at because
we were able to take anything out that we wanted.
Everything was available for us to leave through. And I
had to look at a copy of a Bible too
that was translated into six different languages, and that was
(15:09):
really cool.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
So we're all researchers, and there is wonderfully convenient that
so much of this archival material is available digitally. It's indexed,
you can search it, you can do all this stuff online.
But there's something so amazing about the experience of touching antiquity,
(15:36):
to be able.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
To smelling the bulk and feeling it.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
People of the past held this material like this was
you know, it was hot new intelligence material for the
period of time from which it came. But for us
it also bears that sort of the collective weight of antiquity.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
You know, it's well, all of things had been so
Matt's sending more pictures through. There's a picture of a
page from a book of poetry by I think it's
an ode to a Haggis Robert Burns. So you can't
go to Scotland and not read some Robert Burns and
(16:17):
places them. Yeah. Yeah, But all of these books had
been read by the owner of the collection and he
had actually gone in there and signed the date that
he had acquired these books, so they're all being held
by him. And just the history contained in this place,
(16:38):
and it was just very overwhelming. You feel feel very
emotional in there, like you can cry seeing some of
these books and and just how beloved they were by
the owner and used. You know, they didn't just sit
there to look pretty. They were read and loved and
(16:58):
so it was a very movie experience to be there.
I would highly recommend Dunblane and Sterling where there's a
castle that is even locals will say is better than
Edinburgh Castle Sterling Castle to visit, and it is a
more affordable option compared to Glasgow or Edinburgh which are
very expensive. And during summer too, so many festivals were
(17:20):
taking place. It was very packed for of tourists and
very expensive to be there. But this town had some
wonderful coffee shops and hubs. I mean that's something I
certainly take away from our visit was just how fantastic
the pubs are there. It's a really great culture.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
You know, I don't drink as a kind of a rule,
Ta Tiller, but while I was in Scotland, I drank.
That's all I can say. I was totally in the
culture and carrying kept going don't you want like half
(17:58):
that amount?
Speaker 1 (17:58):
And I'm like, yeah, well I take the pint. Yeah,
I guess we should move on because we're only still
in kind of southern Scotland. Let's move further up.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Well, we went to Inverness next, and it was it
was pretty amazing. You know, there was so much Nassy
uh you know, representation everywhere and all absolutely they live
off that we needed to first take an excursion to
(18:30):
Bleskin House and the cemetery.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
We did a two parter season three episodes nineteen and
twenty on House of the Unholy, which is all about
Bileskin House and als.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Oh love that name and that was a ton of
mine for once. Yay, So yeah, bucket list stuff to
get there, But yeah, we didn't know what the hell
we were doing.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Did we met We just turned up, No, we did,
and it was like, it's a single lane road with
low goal suggest shooning down the road so fast, and
if you see a car coming, you need to stop
and figure out where you're going to pull over because
there's only every once in a while a little nook
to pull over.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
In little shoulder. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Oh, so it was harrowing to say the least, but
we sort of found a spot we could pull the
car over. We got out and we looked at the
cemetery first, and the cemetery was gorgeous, and so many
of the headstones had the name Fraser on it, and
it was you know, the ones that you could even
read it would say Frasier. But they were so old
(19:37):
and so beautiful and right there on the edge of lockness,
just gorgeous. And then up on the other side of
the road, completely covered up by foliage was blessed in house,
but you could not see it. Every once in a
while you get like an edge of the house or
something nothing recognizable. And there were warning signs everywhere, basically
(20:00):
trying to discur scourage efforts to get a better glimpse,
but one sign. Uh well, once I said warning, this
property is protected by anti climb paint.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
And I had never ever heard of that. Yeah. I
was almost tempted to try it just right to find out.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
But but it turns out that this anti climb paint
is a thing, and that's it's pretty popular in the UK.
It doesn't quite dry completely, so if you try to
climb on it, it's slippery, it will stain.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yes, so basically this fence is covered with wet paint.
Go ahead, buddy, you're gonna look stupid.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
Right, Yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of what it is.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
So funny we.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Know where and what you were doing exactly.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
It's because it magically spells out. I was an idiot
and tried to get into Bileskin house and all I
got was this stain t shirt.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
That paint unlited.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
No, that was a lens.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Moving on, folks, Immediately you listened to season three episodes
nineteen and twenty Monsters.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yes, yes, it'll all makes sense. So we hyped up
to the front gate while trying not to get hit
by speeding cars, and we peered through. We peered through
the gate and it began opening as if it was
welcoming us, and it was just kind of the wrought
iron gate there, and we looked at each other kind
of stunned, and then we realized a contractor's van was
(21:32):
rumbling right behind us.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah, we were getting the brid compet treatment.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, we weren't. So we moved out of the way,
and I noticed they had a ring camera affixed to
the gate, so I hit the button and get a
very irritated American voice that answered.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
We're Americans. May wait, please come in.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
But.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
We're American too, And you know, we chatted for a
few moments, and he was really expressing that a lot
of what he called kooks were coming up and trying
to do devil rituals and they were, you know, and
he wanted to focus more on He's like, if you're
you know, media, then you need to make an appointment
to do these kind of things, and you have to
(22:13):
sign all this documentation, make sure you only talk about
these specific things, and and you know, he was definitely
very guarded, but he wanted more of the Jacobite history
and and things like that to be talked about with
the House and uh and for some reason, also Jimmy
Page but uh.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
More on that in a minute.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
More on that a minute. But but he oddly enough said, okay,
I'll tell you what for. If you'll make you know,
a donation, you know, for X amount, you can come
back at the end of the day and I'll let
you come up and see the house nice. And we
are like, score, this is fantastic. But you know, it
(22:57):
was a big pain for us because then we had
to drive back up to Timverness and then wait there
for a little while, and then.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Drive went back down down there and I said, I'll
never do this again. And we were doing it again.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
You want to do it? But good lord with a haul, right,
you know?
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So yeah, yeah, So so we get down we do
it is it is. Uh So we got down there,
we uh he you know, he was already with the
little thing for us to make the donation payment, you know,
with our phones and anything. And we got out and
you know, he made it very clear that he cannot
(23:34):
let us in the house because they're doing construction and
hard hats and whale laws and all that kind.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Of interject from please. So when you were speaking with him,
he was talking about how he really wanted to distance
the house from Alistair Crowley and from the Devil worshipers,
Satan worshippers and from that crowd. And yet when we
turned up there were a few other people if he'd
made a suitable donation to the house, and they were
(24:02):
kind of dressed, decked out in stuff with all different
kinds of occult symbols, and I'm like, okay, this doesn't
add up. And we got chatting with them, and they
were a French couple and they were from I can't
remember which organization it was, but it was an association
for Alistair Crowley. And so I mean more from a
(24:23):
historical perspective, but I still think practitioners of the occult.
But it was just very ironic to me. I thought, Okay,
there were very nice people and very passionate, so it
was really interesting to get to talk with these people
too that weren't very knowledgeable.
Speaker 2 (24:41):
Yeah. So we walk around the front of the house
and it's they have done a beautiful job of restoring
the house. And it's they even replaced and fixed and
made look better the door that Alistair Crowley had punched
into one.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Of the walls for the ritual.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, for the ritual. So they redid that and he
even pointed that out even the door of you know,
Alistair Curley, and I thought, why are you talking about
Alistair Curling when you don't want to talk about Alistair Curley.
But there was a lot of that, yeah, yeah, and
then and then you know, we walked around the other
side and it was the side that they were restoring beautifully.
That you when you see the picture of Jimmy Page
(25:22):
with the beard and everything kind of standing in front
of the house, it's that shot. And so I made
sure and I got, you know, Blade and Karen in
a picture there and thought, you know, I can superimpose
them into the picture with Jimmy Page now.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
That I have this, But I could, but I will
not let you.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Yeah, Karen didn't think that was as cool as I thought.
Speaker 3 (25:42):
I covered this in our special two part coverage of BILESKT.
But the I mean Crawley wasn't doing devil worship. He
was actually trying to summon a guardian angel. So it's like, yes,
like so much shallow occultism, like you know, plugged them
from you know, rock music in that scene and sort
of you know, the people who were into chaos, magic
(26:05):
and that kind of stuff. But he was doing very
ritualized work, you know, from the Guacia oricia. So I
don't know. To me, it's like if you bother to
get a little bit deeper, what was going on there
was not what the common you know, belief or would
have you anyway. So right, it might be they want
(26:27):
to get rid of occultism. You would lose a lot
of revenue. But maybe just maybe remind people that it's
not the devil. It's not simple binary god versus devil
stuff going on. It's a little bit more complicated than that.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes, a bit more too.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah, this is real conversation.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
So so you know, remember, you know, we're not allowed
in the house because of the construction. So he opens
the door ands has come on in and we're like, wow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So and it's ed it is. You're stepping over, you know,
to before's.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
And roof again. This is like it had really been damaged.
Speaker 5 (27:15):
I guess we really, Oh, the restoration is perfect, and
they're really having to uh straddle a very difficult situation
where they're obviously requiring a lot of support because when
they purchased it.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
They purchased a bunch of ruins. There was after the fires,
there was nothing just part of the facade of the
house really a shell. As you say, there wasn't much there,
and so they have I think, even with all the
money that they have backing them, they have needed support
from the Scottish government. So they've really had to kind
of spread themselves thin with their mission. In some regards.
(27:52):
They talk about wanting to conserve the plants in the
area and so they've planted a lot of wildflowers are different, yeah, nice,
but also the animals in the area too. They have
a number of animals. What were they there? There was
(28:13):
a particular kind.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Of squirrel and red squirrel, right, and a new spine
something new and right.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Luckless monster. And so they're really having to I think,
turn themselves inside and out to appease various organizations and
groups so that they can get funding. And I do
understand that, but I really do think they They've done
a lot of research into the history of the house
and they really know what they're doing, and I think
(28:46):
it's ultimately going to be a success. I think that's
going to continue. And talk a bit more about the
different rooms. It's astonishing.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Photos you sent me were so positively heartening. I use
that often, but I I just it cheered me up
immensely to see that it was not just a burntout husk.
I was really happy. So I do want to hear
all about oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Yeah, Well, and that's the thing is they, you know,
like Karen saying, they're straddling this, this whole thing. So
there's one side of the house is really kind of
dedicated to restoring it to its original uh sort of
look and and theme, and then the other side of
the house they're sort of restoring a little bit more
(29:32):
toward the Alistair Crowley Egyptian sort of theme. So it
is kind of bizarre that they're wanting to distance themselves
but at the same time welcoming that.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
That they need to leverage that to study Afloat.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
I agree, yeah, so it's it's a bizarre, bizarre thing.
But I don't know, did I send you over the Yeah,
I think I did. The picture of from well in inside,
I got to look out the same window that both
Alistair Crowley and Jimmy Page would have looked out at Lockness.
(30:09):
Oh my god, you know, and that is just really
a moment for me to be able to do that.
It was it was definitely crazy. But he when we're
done going through the place, which is just being restored
amazingly beautiful, beautifully, and he was thinking that they were
going to be right around October. Wow, But I don't.
Speaker 1 (30:32):
Know, getting pushed out. It's going to be tough.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
It's going to be tough.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
They got a lot more supposed to be spring twenty
twenty five, and I think that that's getting pushed out.
They aren't starting to post events sort of in their name,
in the name of the foundation, but a lot of
those are virtual. They had a historian, Andrew Wiseman, who
is academic and did a lot of research into the house,
(30:59):
I mean, particularly into Crowley, but also into the area
because even though you have these associations of Crowley and
Jimmy Page, it's certainly the history goes back to the
phrases and goes back to the eighteen hundreds and even earlier.
So they really do seem to have it all covered
(31:21):
and there some rooms are dedicated to Jimmy Page and
that era. And this fellow that we spoke with, he
talked about how they had reached out to Jimmy Page
on a number of occasions and that he just had
not responded, he hadn't shown any interest in being involved.
Speaker 3 (31:40):
The projected girls were there, so.
Speaker 2 (31:43):
Well yeah, really no, I told them we take care
of it. We get all of Jimmy, We got a great.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
Poll and contacts.
Speaker 3 (31:50):
Yeah, no problem. Seemed like one of those things where
it seems like they would be doing a reality TV
show or something documentary or some thing.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Probably, well they have done. They have done some mini documentaries,
so they have a YouTube channel and they do have
some interviews on there and some talks and events. But
they're really setting this up so that it can be
I guess, oh, really lots of things within this one building,
(32:22):
so they can to host weddings, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (32:27):
Events like a fantastic.
Speaker 1 (32:30):
They're going to dedicate one wing because the place is
bloody enormous. They're going to dedicate one wing to a
kind of B and B where people can stay there.
I'm sure it will not be cheap, going to be
different areas dedicated to different things. And of course they're
going to have a large library, and so they were
talking about how, oh, you could just come in and
(32:50):
sit here and read. But I don't know exactly how
they're going to do this because it really seems like
they're still formulating who they are and what they're going
to be, because again, there's so many different chunks of
history that are encapsulated within this place. It is truly remarkable.
I just I hate town Studio scientific, but just the
(33:13):
energy in the place, just going there and just feeling
all that has happened and being able to see the lock,
the lock in front of you. There's this amazing yard too,
with what would you call it now it's like a.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Pond, Yeah, it's it's you know, they're trying to sort
of revitalize some of the wetland life there, so they
have kind of fixed this pond that was back behind
that was a mess before. I all send over a
photo that. But yeah, it's just incredible. And one of
(33:47):
the pictures I sent you a minute ago kind of
showed some of the slate that had just been delivered,
and all the shingles are made of this slate because
it was what was originally put on.
Speaker 3 (33:58):
There when my father and I were restored. We were
tearing down old houses here in Georgia to sell the
material for restorations of other other houses, and slate is
such a great roofing material. So we dealt with that
a lot. It's fragile, it's very brittle, but it works
(34:20):
very well for Keith and the Rain. Now, so yeah,
totally familiar with that. The folklore of this is that
Crowley was trying to summon his guardian angel, and part
of that ritual in the Guecia is to you have
to like bind the lords of Hell and you know,
so demons. So it's like, yes, there is a demonic
(34:42):
component that it would not be a Satanic ritual. There's
a lot of stuff that happens in demonology. If you
go back to our Witchcraft and Magic series, which has
been very sporadic, but this there is a sort of
Judeo Christian framing for a lot of this stuff. So
some of the books that you would think might be
just straight up demonic turn out to be really about
(35:05):
God and Jesus and using the power of God and
Jesus to bind demons as worker agents for you. So
let's just say that whatever you might have heard from
folklore is probably not exactly accurate. But anyway, the folklore
is that that Crawley opened the door to let these
(35:26):
demons of Hell, these princes of Hell, be part of
this ritual, and then he left because there were some
political things going on with the Golden Dawn, which is
a magical so he leaves and never finishes the ritual,
and he never sort of closes the door and rebinds
these princes of Hell back to their realm, so they
(35:49):
might still be running loose. And I ran a call
of Cthulhu One Shot Night Adventure, which is a role
play game based on the works of Ace F. Love Craft,
wherein UH I posited that the monster in the lock
was actually not a pleasosaur. It was this entity that
(36:10):
had been left out when.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Crawley pngured up by That was.
Speaker 3 (36:15):
A fun game, but there's probably.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
Some and I I gotta tell you, Adrian Shine had
a comment on that.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Really I want to hear as I say, the closing
out that ritual performatively on video UH for them as
a fundraiser. Right, Honestly, it's like so many people think
that that door has been left open. Close it. I mean,
I don't think it's real anyway, but close it.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
That's a genius idea. And so Keith, the this curator,
I think a part owner. Uh. He did want a
link to any media that would result from our visits.
So yeah, if he hears this, then that's a early idea.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
And Keith was he was amazing. He was so generous
with his time and he was just so full of
information and he was it was astounding, It was really great.
So we definitely appreciate that.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
So if you could quickly pause them with the cat
in and then we should probably has changed characters.
Speaker 3 (37:22):
So we've talked about a Robert, we've talked about plants,
when we've talked about pages. Well, this is not the moon.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
This is not Keith Blade tagged along with us, obviously,
even though I think he would have rather stay at
the place that we were staying in the house and
just play roadblocks. But we dragged him along and he
couldn't totally understand at ten the gravity of what we
were doing or where we were going. We did explain
it to him, but I think in coming years and
(37:50):
decades he will truly be able to appreciate what he
got to see at such a young age. But yeah,
just as we're driving back there again, why are we
going here again? And let me get this straight. So
this is the place where Keith Richards lived, and who
did he say that? Keith Richards lived with So the.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Guy who sings, uh, don't worry be happy.
Speaker 1 (38:14):
Yeah, so I don't know he's that together, but that
was his understanding of the events. But I think he
even he did appreciate just the grounds and the lock
and and everything. But we all had a good time
for different reasons.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
Totally, totally well.
Speaker 3 (38:33):
The guy that things don't worry, be happy, he has
a Scottish name McFerrin, right, so yes, oh yeah, Bobby mcfair.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
I think Barrel Pharrell or whatever. But right, yeah, that's
the other happened Matt seeing the Proclaimers the whole time
we're in Scots.
Speaker 3 (38:50):
Oh my god, my wife loves five hundred miles so much,
so much, so it doesn't matter.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
I would have been a hit. Then we're now leaving
Inverness to uh we were going to go drop into
Drumna Drocket, which is the sort of the Lockness monster capital.
Speaker 5 (39:11):
It is.
Speaker 3 (39:11):
It is totally yeah, And you know.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
The thing is is we knew we were going to
have a cup of coffee there, and we knew that
it was going to be overrun with tourists. So we
stop off at this place about twenty minutes outside of
Drum to Drocket, nice little village. I can't remember the
name of it, but we had a cup of coffee
there in city something yeah. Yeah. But they had some great,
(39:34):
you know, highland cattle out there that were adorable.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, oli, very iconic in the area.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
They have like a like croton Yeah, okay, yeahs yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, they're they're very furry and it's it's it's there
was as many little things that you could buy with
that imagery on it as there was the Lockness Monster.
So it's very interesting.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Cows and cryptis.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, cows and cryptics. There's a title for an episode.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I heard that.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
So anyway, so as we're sitting there having our coffee,
Karen gets an email saying, oh, Adrian Shane would love
to meet you for coffee.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
That's so fair.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Well, here's the thing. So when we were planning the trip,
he did offer, oh, look, if you're ever in town,
swing by and say hi. I don't think he ever
anticipated that anyone would take him up on it, And
so I got in contact with his lovely wife, who
communicates on his behalf, does all of his pr Marilyn Yeah,
(40:41):
and does some illustrations too for his books. And so
I reached out to her and I was astonished when
she got right back and said absolutely, and it just
fit in perfectly with our travels and our timing. But
when push came to shove, they were having some car
troubles and had to go to Inverness, and so I thought, Okay,
this isn't going to work out. I'm so glad that
(41:01):
the whole Bleskent thing worked out because we won't get
to see him. And then we got a call up
at the last minute and we happened to be about
ten minutes away from Drumna Drocket, so we headed down
there and it was very difficult to find parking. The
place is just jam packed full of people. But we
walked into this little coffee shop and there he was,
(41:23):
just sitting in the corner, you like, Schotty Santa Claus
Hive him a mile away.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And I can't stop thinking of Gandalf when I see him.
It's the Gandalf Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:34):
Yeah, a little yeah with a slightly yellowed beard from smoking.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Well, it's funny because I'm going to send you over
one of these sort of pieces of imagery that is
everywhere in Drumna drank st nicotine. So yeah, so yeah,
I just sent you over that picture and this is
(42:00):
what you know. He is a rock star there, you know,
because he's so recognizable, and I mean we're being looked
at like who are they because they're like getting to
sit with him.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
People were constantly approaching him. So as we're sitting there
having an Equipiti, people were coming over and talking to him.
And when we were outside with him later on, can
I get a photograph with you? And just he was.
He's very beloved there. Absolutely, he's associated with the area
and it's part of the lore.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
And his generosity with his time was amazing. He would
have sat with us all day if he could have.
He was great. And you know, he was talking with
Blade back and forth. Now, Blade had brought a book
along with him that he had got from school from
the Is It Real? Series and it's about the Lockness
Monster and you flip it open and there's a picture
(42:54):
of Adrian Shine and he was happy to sign it.
And Blade was that affected. Blade, he was like I
met a true rockstar.
Speaker 6 (43:04):
You know.
Speaker 2 (43:04):
The day before he's in Jimmy Page's house and whatever.
Keith Richards, you know, Bobby McPherrin whoever it was, Yeah, proclaimers. Here,
he's he's seeing someone that he recognizes and never thought
he was going to meet much less get a signature
and a photogo with, So very exciting for him. But yeah,
(43:26):
Adrian was interesting because as we were talking, he said
that he absolutely loved being on Talking Monsters, and.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
Well he got a chuckle when I came over with
my cup of tea that I disordered, and I think, Matt,
you were just talking about him and how we kind
of came across him and all of that, and I said, yes,
that I was enlisted to talk on an episode of
History's Greatest Mysteries for History dot com and the HISTORYTV
(43:59):
and that they had really wanted him instead of me.
I was a poor substitute for him. So he thought
that was refly.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
And we did talk about the Lockness Monster a little bit,
but what he really wanted to talk about was linguistics
with Karen, and that was a lot of fun to
just watch his excitement.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
We were talking about swear. So he said, my wife
looked you up and I saw that you had written
a number of books, and so I knew he was
referring to bitch because that's kind of plastered a little
over my main page at the moment. But we had
a really interesting discussion about language and about discriminatory language
(44:43):
and prejudice, and so he had some slightly different ideas
to me at times, but I think he was open
minded and we had a really interesting discussion about linguistics.
But it was surprising because we talked less about the
Locknest Monster.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
Well, you know, I had mentioned about the whole idea
of Aleister Crowley, you know, because we told him, you know,
we were just over at Bileskin House, and he was like, oh, yeah,
you know, yeah, a little bit like I don't know
what to say about that. And then I was like,
you know, what do you think about the idea that
he you know, Olster Curley didn't finish that ritual and
(45:18):
the Lockness Monster is one of the entities that came
in through that really Yeah, And his his very profound
answer was no.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
He got that short. Yeah, but he did find it
amusing too. So he was just a very jolly fellow
to talk with. And as Matt said, he really spent
a long time with us and Frida. At the end
he said, is there anything that you want to discuss
or any other questions you have and asked Blade to
He was such a gentleman, and he is working on
(45:53):
a new book but more about the cultural aspects of
the Lockdest Monster. And he said he's very eager to
come back on to Monster talking to talk with us
about that, even before the book comes out. He said
he was at an age where he couldn't wait for
the book to come back.
Speaker 3 (46:08):
If it is a real creature, we know now that
it emerged from the plasticcene era. Right bucket list item,
you guys knocks it out of the park. I hope
I get to be over this from there and make
you make those connections myself. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, you will, absolutely, and I'd go back again for sure.
It was interesting to see the lock in person too,
because we know that he talks about weights, but just
to see the currents. The currents were very, very rapid
and the water was ice cold, and but the currents
(46:45):
were just moving so fast. And to see them too,
they really had a nesty like kind of wave too.
But didn't they match.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
In our interview that yeah, yeah, there are.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
So many different Lockness monsters in terms of explanations, because yeah,
I was just blade kept spotting them all the time.
There's a lockness monster. There's lots of things that could
be construed that way if you were a believer, and Madam,
you've got the picture of that was a shop front,
lots of stores selling kilts and oh yeah, and all
(47:24):
kinds of memorial the Yes, I'll send that over.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I was going to send over one other thing because
we had another episode that we had done recently about Bothy's.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
Yeah we did.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, I think we were near the White Laggered by
White Lag, but we didn't make it there because it
is a bit of a trick from there and we
kind of had to stick to our itinerary our schedule.
But we did go to a pub that was a
former Bothy and that was a lot of fun. I
(47:58):
can't say all of the locals are always friendly all
of the time, are they, Matt. I think they didn't
have much patience for tourists there.
Speaker 3 (48:07):
Again, likeness has locks. This is the other kind of
locks they have. They have like canal system that connects.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Yes, I was going to raise that. In Fort Augustus
there was an amazing canal with these kind of bridges
that would open up to let chips through so predominantly
there it is here but where of my wife, but
nowadays predominantly fishing. Ah and and that's the I think
(48:37):
the main industry around there. But yeah, those channels are
the canals are just amazing, really beautiful, and so you're
not used for military purposes anymore, but everything's have fought
along their fort Augustus fought Williams are there?
Speaker 3 (48:58):
Let me try that again. Are there are still portages available?
Can you take a boat up the lock and come?
Speaker 1 (49:06):
Yes? Oh yes, they're very popular. I mean hordes of
tourists and gifts shops and uh, pipers playing bagpipes.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Just yeah, don't play amazing grace. Why did you even pick.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
You know what we heard there mull of Kintar Paul McCartney,
and I thought, oh so yeah, there are lots of
pipers around, and stores trying to purchase people's bagpipes too,
selling kilts and just hearten everything you can think of.
(49:53):
I saw a beautiful hip flask that had a tartan
around it that looked for the smith. Tartan could not
find it for you, but we've got you some other
goodies that they need to say.
Speaker 3 (50:02):
Family is apparently from at least my dad's side of
the family is from this region. I mean, not literally
from the White Mass but yeah, they're Scottish.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, oh, I'm sure we've got some Scottish blood to
mine's mostly Irish, but a little bit of English, a
bit of Scottish and Matt as well, like a lot
of us Anglos here.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
Yeah, but we told you that she always thought we
were German, but I'm betting on Welsh.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
We've got German too. Yeah, we've got Austrian Austrian. Uh.
But yeah, we went through some incredible museums and everywhere
we would go, Oh, we get so many Aussies coming
through here, and they have their books of their genealogy
and they're traced back to Scottish history and mine's mostly
(50:54):
kind of Western European most of my history. But yeah,
they said a lot of a lot of Australians coming through.
The Australian accent was very prominent, wasn't it, Matt. But
no one until where I'm from. I'm a citizen of
the world. Sometimes they and I had people say things
like sometimes I thought you when I met you, I
thought you were American, And then the more you talked
(51:14):
I thought New.
Speaker 3 (51:15):
Zealand Australia, where if I could pass for America and
if I use my house accent.
Speaker 1 (51:25):
Blade was showing me displaying his Texan accent today. It
was very impressive.
Speaker 3 (51:31):
Oh cool, Yeah, obviously, you know not to make fun
of any region, but it is nifty how you could
be speaking the same language, but your accent can place
you into a physical location.
Speaker 7 (51:45):
I know, speaking They always said Tolkien could take a classroom,
have a have a student speak a sentence or two,
and then you know, within ten or fifteen miles, tell
them where they came from, which is astonishing.
Speaker 1 (51:59):
That's impressive because many years ago, when I was visiting
students and then a visiting scholar at University of California, Berkeley,
I attended an event and was held by a number
of phonologists and when I got chatting with the person
who was heating it, I won't name this person, they're
(52:19):
not working there anymore, but that he introduced me as
coming from the other side of the Atlantic, and I said, oh,
the Pacific. So I thought that was interesting that someone
who was an expert. And again I'm not being fair
because academics are experts in very specific small areas, but
(52:40):
even he had pegged me for being English.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
Well I blame I mean, the rise of broadcast media
has definitely affected how people how accurate that language specification
for origin can be, because I know from my perspective.
We talked about this before. I specifically tried to get
(53:05):
rid of my Southern accent, just because there's a prejudice
against Southern people that they're not as intelligent, which I
think is probably.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
It's unfair, probably stereotyping, but stereotypes.
Speaker 3 (53:22):
You know, I was such a redneck that I think
it diminished my opportunity, so I tried to you know,
I tried to cleanse it for my palate, so I
slipped back into it whenever I talked to my parents.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
But you know, I, well, that's unfortunate because you know,
you break that mold, and it is the accent is stigmatized,
and it is unfair because it's it's not true. It
doesn't apply to everyone I talked.
Speaker 3 (53:47):
He's from Alabama and talks like an absolute NASCAR you know,
cheap seats guy, but he is really really smart, and
you know it's if you lean into those prejudices, you
would never let him do an interview you know, for anything,
(54:09):
judge or it's accent exactly.
Speaker 1 (54:13):
But we should probably wrap things up. I think we're
going well over time, all.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Right, we'll wrap Blake, I can't remember, and I even
listened to the episode, and I don't remember. Did I
talk extensively about Saint Albans and the Holy Well?
Speaker 3 (54:27):
Or did we just talk about this entirely online? Okay,
which was really cool, by the way, because I was like,
what do you what? What? Holy whale? Sorry, your whale?
Speaker 2 (54:40):
A little bit of my accent there? Well, I can.
I can send over a few photos of that too.
Speaker 3 (54:48):
The funny thing is, if you want to have news
stories for your friends, you've got to go have adventures.
I tell my friendsiness all the time we get together
and we're just telling the same stories over and over again.
Do you want to have you stories? Go do new stuff.
So I really appreciate getting out.
Speaker 1 (55:04):
There see the world.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
Yeah, oh. We had a fantastic time, and we certainly
want to go back someday. Because I thought, well, this
is the trip of a lifetime, and then I thought, well,
why can't I come back someday. It's not like, oh,
well I've done this now there are lots of other
things I want to do and see, but I would
love to go back.
Speaker 3 (55:22):
Yeah, I'm not envious at all. It's just a bucket list.
I'm that I also would like to accomplish.
Speaker 1 (55:29):
Well, your turn.
Speaker 3 (55:30):
Yeah, I need, I need to makes a month in
the UK because there's so many things I want to do.
But I appreciate every one of your photos, every one
of your stories is delightful and I hope the listeners
enjoy them as well.
Speaker 1 (55:42):
Thank you, And yeah, we'll definitely have more episodes as
a result of this, so we can delve into some
of the things that we saw along the way.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
Yeah, we haven't even gotten so that there's there's more
to come.
Speaker 4 (55:56):
You've been listening to Monster Doc, the science show about
my Monsters. I'm Blake Smith.
Speaker 1 (56:02):
And I'm Karen Stolzner.
Speaker 3 (56:04):
You've been listening to Karen and Matt recounting their amazing
trip to Scotland for Karen's book tour promoting Bitch, the
Journey of a Word. I'm so thrilled they got to
go see Lockness, meet the legendary Adrian Shine, and visit
the amazing Buleskin House. And believe me, there's more to come.
My phone was lighting up with these amazing photos the
whole time they were gone, so be sure and check
(56:26):
our show notes and the monster Talk Facebook group to
see those for yourself. We hope you've enjoyed this episode
of Monster Talk. Each episode we strive to bring you
the very best in monster related content, with a focus
on bringing scientific skepticism into the conversation. If you enjoy
Monster Talk, we now have a variety of ways to
support the show, all with convenient links at monster talk
(56:49):
dot org forwarde slash support. That's monster talk dot org
forwarde slash support. We have links there to our Patreon
page as well as a donation button. Another great way
to support the show is to buy books from our
Amazon Monster Talk wish list, which directly helps us.
Speaker 6 (57:06):
With our research. We love used books very much, so
don't feel compelled to buy new ones, and we love
kindles so we could share our digital libraries with each other.
And finally, without spending any money at all, you can
support us by leaving a positive review at iTunes or
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(57:28):
us find you listeners and Please share our show on
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Speaker 3 (57:35):
Monster Talks theme music is by the brilliant peach Stealing Monkeys.
Though a few of my world class pawns were the
tragic casualties of this week's microphone snap, you have no fear.
I'll always make more. And whether that's a hopeful promise
or dire threat, I guess depends on your perspective, but
my wife definitely has opinions on that
Speaker 1 (58:42):
This has been a Monster House presentation.
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