August 31, 2025 • 34 mins
Blake is joined by regular contributor Matt Baxter, and special guest Kara Van Hoose from the Colorado Department of Parks and Wildlife to discuss the (not that mysterious) outbreak of "tentacle bunnies" in Colorado this summer.
News reports of "rabbits with tentacles"
Deer wasting disease (zombie deer)
"Colorado Cannibal" Alfred Packer
Colorado Parks & Wildlife
Colorado Parks & Wildlife Karl Shuker's blog about Jackalope
99% Invisible episode on Jackalope
Wall Drug
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/monstertalk--6267523/support.
Some product links may be affiliated with Amazon revenue sharing.
News reports of "rabbits with tentacles"
Deer wasting disease (zombie deer)
"Colorado Cannibal" Alfred Packer
Colorado Parks & Wildlife
Colorado Parks & Wildlife Karl Shuker's blog about Jackalope
99% Invisible episode on Jackalope
Wall Drug
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/monstertalk--6267523/support.
Some product links may be affiliated with Amazon revenue sharing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Munster house presents.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Like a scabbyish looking kind of growth over her face.
Looks like it was black quills or black toothpicks sticking
out all around his mouth.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Susan Mansfield said she saw a different bunny with tentacles
in her yard in recent years.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
He had the same black stuff on him and I
thought he would die off during the winter, but he didn't.
He came back a second year, and it.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Grew some feel bad for our tiny neighbors. If Colorado
Parks and Wildlife confirms this is a virus that's not
contagious to other animals like people's dogs, but they say
leave this wildlife alone, like you would with any of
the neighborhood bunnies, well, it's.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
A giant hairy creek here Marte parts.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
In Luckness, a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake
in the Highlands of Scotland. It's a creature known as
the Luckness Monster.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Monstertal Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters.
I'm Blake Smith and.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
I'm Karen Stolsner.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Jackalobes are one of those monsters we've been meaning to
cover for pretty much the entire run of Monster Talk.
Somehow we never got to them until now. Well they're
back in the news, and there's a lot of confusion
between the made up jacalobe and it's very real biological analog.
That's what we'll be talking about in this episode. On
(02:02):
the surface, Jacoalopes are pretty silly. The taxidermity critter we
all know today isn't really a Montreal It's a piece
of folk art. We even know exactly who started it,
Brothers Douglas and Ralph Herrick, who in nineteen thirty two
in Douglas, Wyoming, attached to antlers to stuffed rabbits, and
that town still proudly calls itself Home of the Jackalope.
(02:26):
As the show ninety nine Percent Invisible has pointed out,
the novelty really spread thanks to Wall Drug in South Dakota,
a roadside attraction that has grown into a city block
sized emporium of kitsch. They sold jacoalope postcards, souvenirs, and
mounted specimens, helping turn the gag into modern Americana. But
(02:48):
while taxidermists were sewing together imaginary creatures, a researcher named
Richard Schope was studying something disturbingly close to the Herrick's
whimsical creation. Only this wasn't make believe. People began sending
him rabbits with grotesque corn like growths erupting from their
heads and faces. CHOP's studies revealed a few key things.
(03:10):
The growths were made of keratin like hair and nails,
They often sprouted from hair follicles as a wart like structure,
and while they were usually benign, sometimes they became malignant cancers.
Most importantly, Chop demonstrated that the disease was contagious and
caused by a virus, and his work was one of
(03:31):
the very first proofs that viruses could cause a cancer.
And the implications didn't stop with rabbits. This cottontail papilloma
virus turned out to have parallels in human papilloma viruses
or HPV, which also sometimes causes cancer. Decades later, that
line of research would contribute to the development of vaccines
(03:52):
which can now prevent many cases of cervical cancer in
human beings. Of course, today, when people stumble across a
rabbit these strange growths, the instinct is to study them.
It's to post photos online and spark around of viral
headlines about zombie bunnies, frankin rabbits, and cuthulhu hairs, and
that's exactly what's happening in Colorado right now. Local residents
(04:14):
are seeing these odd, though hardly rare rabbits, and social
media and local news are busy sensationalizing the outbreak. Today,
we'll be talking with Cara Van who's from the Colorado
Parks and Wildlife Department, to separate facts from folklore and
answer your questions about this peculiar but not particularly threatening condition. Mobstutle.
Speaker 6 (04:38):
We were in my wife and I and co host
of the show, Karen Stolesnow we were in Great Britain
at the time when suddenly we're seeing all these reports
of these either mutant rabbits or jackalobes or whatever just
coming out. Even some were saying zombie bunnies or just
(04:58):
coming in. And then then even Blake is messaging us
about it, and you know, it's leaving a lot of
the residents creeped out and concerned. And something strange is
causing the growths on the head and faces of these rabbits,
and I'm wondering, could it be proof that other cryptids
exist or is it a radioactive mutation or maybe aliens?
(05:20):
But here with us today we have Cara van Voss
and she is the spokesperson for the Colorado Department of
Wildlife And welcome to Monster Talk.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
So what is it that's causing these strange growths on
these otherwise adorable bunnies.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
It's not as exotic as people think. It's just a virus.
It's a form of the rabbit papaloma virus or also
known as the shop papolama virus that's coined after the
man who discovered it, doctor Richard Schope, And it's just
transmitted to them by fleas or ticks or mosquitoes, just
(05:57):
very common things in Colorado and really a lot of
other places too. And we see this transmitted to rabbits
in the summertime and then they just kind of grow
these things on their faces. They're kind of wart wart like,
that's how we're describing them. And they can manifest in
different ways like horns or maybe tentacles. Sometimes they look
(06:19):
like more traditional warts, like the smaller circular little growths,
but it looks different for each rabbit. And eventually because
it's a virus. The rabbits will defeat it. Their immune
system will take over and it'll clear it out of
their body and the growth will just fall off naturally.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Wow. I have to say that is actually a surprising
thing for me to. I had read about these We've
actually been reading about the virus for a long time
because we've been meaning to do an episode on jackalobes.
And there's this question of was the folklore slash I
don't know what amusement story of the jackalobe was that inspired?
(07:00):
Are these things or was it just a coincidence, like
convergent sort of narrative evolution, you know. So I don't
know the answer to that, but I was really delighted
because everything I read up to just now implied that
these things just continue to grow into the bunnies and
able to eat, and that seemed terrible. But it sounds
like they can actually survive. Are these soft? Are they hard?
(07:23):
Have you touched them?
Speaker 7 (07:24):
No?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I've not touched them myself, But it's really not for
lack of trying. Really, I think rabbits are just pretty
fast creatures and wiggle their way into places where you
can't find them.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Is this at all contagious to other species, can of spread.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
To humans, so it can be transmitted from rabbit to rabbit,
but we don't see it going to other species like
dogs or humans or other things that could come in
contact with the rabbits. It's a concern though for domestic bunnies.
So if you do own bunnies that you let them
outdoors and maybe they interact with wildlife, it's something to
keep in mind during the summer that it could happen,
(08:01):
you know, not only from other rabbits, but from those
same fleas, ticks, things that will bite them as well.
But no, we don't see that. I mean humans, we've
got our own form of the papalomavirus, you know, we've
got our own strain. But they tend to be like
hard like growths that happen on the rabbit spaces, so
they feel like warts. It's that same probably texture texture.
(08:23):
Sounds gross to say.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
These are in the news right now.
Speaker 8 (08:27):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I know for a fact I've seen old wood cutting,
so it's not a brand new thing. But why is
it in the news now. Is this an unusually busy
year for it, or just it just suddenly popped up,
or what's going on there.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
For whatever reason, people are really interested in it this year.
It's hard to say if there are more rabbits being
affected because this is a wild population, so we don't
really know, or if people just are simpthing more aware
of them. I think one of the first photos to
kind of go viral really showed in clear detais tale
the horns or the tentacles and then just caught like
(09:04):
like fire everywhere. Right, And I've done interviews on this
just internationally. Yeah, the UK was really interested, and then
a bunch here in the US. But we didn't get
any calls about the rabbits this year before the first
news story, So it's like the story happens and then
people maybe take more notice or decide, oh, Colorado Parks
(09:26):
and Wildlife wants to know about these things, and then
we start taking more calls. So it's probably some combination
of both. It can also depend to if we have
maybe a healthier flea and tich population that year, like
maybe this was a good rain year, or there are
more fleas and ticks out there, you know, distributing this virus.
It's it's difficult to say, and it's probably not just
(09:48):
one reason, but We're always really grateful for people taking
an interest in wildlife and science and nature. It's I
think it's cool to learn something new and learn about
what viruses can do, and that this is Thankfully the
human papaloma virus doesn't manifest itself like this. Imagine if
people just started growing horns.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Because of that. Why I can't imagine that.
Speaker 9 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now do viral outbreaks like this tell
us anything about the health of the rabbit populations or
the ecosystem?
Speaker 6 (10:21):
Like you were saying, you know, maybe it's a good
rain year and that that's causing you know, the ticks
and fleas maybe to be out there more. But are
you does the Department of Wildlife kind of pay attention
to this in terms of the overall health of these
the ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
If it was something that was unique, I think we would.
But because this is cyclical and we see this every summer,
it's something that we just know exists on our landscape.
If it was a new virus to Colorado, or if
it was something that was heavily impacting a threatened species,
Rabbits are plentiful in Colorado and across the states, so
(11:00):
we're we're not at all concerned about their wild population
because there are just so many of them. And yeah,
this virus is something that we've seen in Colorado for decades.
When we started getting questions about it and I turned
to our wildlife health experts at our lab, they were
confused why I was asking about it, because it's just
so common. They kind of scratching their heads, like, this
(11:23):
is it? We get this every summer. I said, I
don't know, people need to know, people.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Need Nothing is common until it hits YouTube.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Well, well it's interesting. I mean, how many times something
completely mundane shows up? You know, it's nature, But since
we live inside and don't go out, you know, then
it's all surprising and weird and strange. But this is
I mean, I think visually this has always been really
interesting to me. Again, at least since two thousand and five,
(11:55):
when I've maybe first heard about it. But I don't
think I've ever seen it in real life for this
year in these photos, so I'd only seen drawings. But
is it regionally centered because I mean, we have obviously
rabbits here in Georgia. I've never seen anything like this before,
and I used to spend a lot of times outdoors
(12:16):
before I got a computer job and life got me. Anyway,
how far regionally does this sort of thing spread.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It can be all across Colorado. I think the majority
of our calls though this year coming from northern Colorado,
because that's where the first photos were taken in for Collins,
which is up near the border with Wyoming. But we've
heard of this across like the Midwest and the Northeast.
You know, it's something that a lot of different states
and regions deal with. And I wouldn't be surprised if
(12:48):
it also happens in Georgia. But maybe people just haven't noticed,
or they just don't see them.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
We think they're very small deers. We don't report it, right,
What do you do when you get reports like this?
If someone calls this in? I mean, how do you
handle those things?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
We treat it like an education opportunity. I think some
people want to know what's going on. They're concerned about
the rabbit's health because you know what a rabbit's face
is supposed to look like, and that's that's not it.
So in some cases it's just giving them more information
answering some questions. It's also us asking too, did the
rabbit look healthy? Was it able to move around? Was
(13:25):
it covering its mouth? That's when we really become concerned
for its health is if these growths take over sensitive
areas of the face, like around the mouth, and then
they're unable to eat or their eyes or you know
something like that. So yeah, we just do like a
little bit of an assessment there.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
Yeah, if someone was to stumble upon one of these,
that's that's really the kind of questions they should be
asking themselves. Is not how horrific you know that the
gross look, but how is the rabbit doing? Is that
what they should be paying attention to.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yes, is the rabbit okay? Is it interacting with other
you know, domestic animals or other wildlife? Am I keeping
my distance? But these are things that we would tell
them with any type of wildlife, not just these rabbits
that are infected with the virus right now. So we
would tell them the same thing with deer or with
bears or you know, birds, anything like that of just
(14:17):
let wildlife be wild.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Interesting, Yeah, really curious.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
You kind of implied that there are things that are
normal that you know, people don't always see. So are
there other kind of normal health issues? That when the
general public sees it, they get a little freaked out
and maybe even think they're seeing something I don't know,
like a encryptid or something. I mean, are there other
(14:45):
kind of normal health issues that you see every year
that freak out the public.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You've brought up zombie bunnies, but every few years, it
seems like people just learn about chronic wasting disease and
call them zombie deer. This is a neurological disease that
affects deer, elk, and pronghorn in Colorado, but mainly deer,
and it can make them appear as if they're they're
stumbling around and they're they're shaking their head. They can
(15:11):
act like how you think a zombie would or could act,
and it gets branded like that and then goes viral.
And we we've been dealing with CWD now for a
number of years, and it's something that we know exists
that we warn hunters about in case they take a deer.
You know, we study this the disease path and where
(15:33):
it's found in the different counties. But it's something that
is an unfortunate, normal thing that could happen to deer
in Colorado, but then somebody calls it zombie deer, and
then everybody kind of thinks they're learning about it for
the first time.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
I think it was last year, maybe the year before
on the Western Slope. I can't remember. If it was
a groundhog situation where there was a bunch of it
was reported as zombie a road and I believe of
some kind that didn't seem to be dying when they
should have, and that was like a big thing on
(16:10):
the Western Slope. I can look and see if I
can find the story on that if I need to
it maybe two years ago. Do you remember anything about that?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
You might be talking about our prairie dogs that are
known to get the plague. Yeah, yes, that the plague
still exists and the prairie dogs are particularly susceptible to them,
also transmitted through fleas. That is something that that exists
and is certainly concerned because prairie dogs are such an
important praise species in Colorado. We've got a lot of
(16:39):
predators that rely on their population for their food, and
that's something we have developed at CPW. We've developed a
plague vaccine for prairie dogs specifically, and we distribute that
to them and these little little pellets covered in peanut
butter and then dyed blue and we throw them out
(17:00):
to prairie dog burrows. I was on one of these
just the other week.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
That I do want to talk a little bit about
the role of science within the government and what contributions
citizens can do to sort of contribute to citizens science.
That's been a sort of recurring theme lately, because you know,
we're a show about monsters, but we're really a show
about science, and a lot of people who go out
into the woods to hunt for Bigfoot think they're doing science,
(17:29):
but there are ways that could actually contribute to the
general body of knowledge that a lot of them are
not doing.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You know, we take a lot of bigfoot sightings in Colorado.
Oh yeah, will call in to CPW saying that they
have spotted bigfoot, and it's I will never turn down
anybody who calls saying they have Bigfoot information. We particularly
take this in like our southwest region of CPW, which
(18:00):
makes sense. It's got a lot of mountains, it's got
a lot of wooded areas. We have somebody who swore
up and down that Bigfoot visited their campsite and was
very interested in their twinkies that they had, So it's
that that's kind of how we you know, if we
needed to bait bigfoot, I think we would use twinkies.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Oh, this twinkie thing, it ain't over yet.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
Let's say this twinkie represents the normal amount of psychokinetic
energy in the New York area according to this morning sample,
it would be a twinkie thirty five feet long, weighing
approximately six hundred pounds.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
That's a big twinkie.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
It lasts a long time in the field. That's important.
What true? Yeah, they don't go bad, It's very true.
Speaker 8 (18:49):
Is this really true? Can America's favorite snack really survived
decades without decomposing despite what culture may claim, despite the
best efforts a hostess food scientists, twinkies absolutely can and
do go bad, and fairly quickly at that.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
A pedant is someone who is overly concerned with formalistic
rules or insignificant details and or goes out of their
way to show off their own knowledge or academic learning.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But getting back to the citizen science angle, people are
our eyes and ears in the field and what's going
on in the state, not only with the environment but
also with wildlife. This is why anybody who hunts or
fishes in Colorado can be asked to just tell us
what you saw out there and what you know, your
(19:38):
historical knowledge of these properties and these places that you
visit year after year. We ask them just to give
us kind of a download of the information there that
they experienced. And we can't be everywhere in Colorado. We're,
you know, an agency of what twelve hundred full time employees.
It would be impossible for us to get a handle
(19:59):
on what every go wildlife species is doing in the state.
And that's why we need the people who do live
there and do recreate in other areas to tell us
things that are going on. I've noticed that the deer
population in this area is a little smaller than last year.
Or I saw moose here two weeks ago and I've
never seen a moose there before. It's just these little
(20:22):
anecdotes that maybe you think are one offs or just
a good Facebook post, but really this helps us make
management decisions and it helps us gain a greater understanding
of what's going on in Colorado.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Do you have any sort of apps that people could
use to sort of report that data, or do you
send out queries or surveys or how does that work.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
We do send out surveys to certain hunters and anglers
and like game management units, or even when we're just
contacting them in the field checking licenses, you know, and
maybe they just call and tell us at our office.
You know, it could be any of the normal ways
that people would be talking to us. Anyway.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
People probably afraid to purport Bigfoot because you know, they
get that kill limit. You don't want to overdo your
you don't want to lose your license.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
It would be an extraordinary license to issue in Colorado,
and the amount of preference points that you would need
would just be astronomical. It'd be something like five thousand
preference points and you're never going to do that. You
get like one or two a year.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Yeah, I don't know what that means. What does that mean?
Preference points?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Sure, So that's how we determine what license goes to
whom in Colorado is through a point system. Okay, and
it's it can be weighted and it can be random.
But you every year you get a point and you
can either bank them and maybe save up for something
that costs a lot of points, like in a envirable area.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
I want to kill an elk, that's more points that
if I want to kill a tenttal cold hair, you know,
or rabbit or something what it could be.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes, So if if you wanted to go elk hunting
and a place that it supposedly has really great options
for you, maybe that costs you more points than somewhere
else of oh I just want, like, you know, a
deer license somewhere else. So it's because Colorado is such
a desirable place to hunt that this is just a
(22:15):
more fair and equitable system of using preference points than say,
you know, you go out in Michigan and they're deer everywhere.
Maybe they do it, maybe they do it differently there,
but this is how Colorado does it.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
I do love that, like in the Pike's Peak area,
they have the Bigfoot Crossing science up on Pike's Peak,
and I love how they kind of have fun with that.
But I'm assuming that the Pike's Peak area probably gets
a lot of reports.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It does, you know, it does up there, I would
say more so though in the Southwest region or even
there's an area of Colorado called Evergreen, you know, in
Jefferson County. I think we take a lot of reports
from there. The Bigfoot Museum in Colorado's also sort of
around Evergreen, so I think people just have maybe a
heightened awareness.
Speaker 6 (23:03):
Yes, I've been there.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Absolutely, Yes, yeah, that's it's absolutely fascinating of what I think.
Colorado was the fifth top of bigfoot reports. But I
can never keep track if that's if that was several
years ago or if that's current. But I know we
we a lot. So I have not seen him myself,
(23:29):
as much as I try to get out. But still,
you know, you never know, you never know.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It happened anytime anyplace.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Right, If you see a bigfoot with giant horns and tentacles,
you know obviously that's let us know, right, So do not.
I mean, you can let the Department of Wildlife know,
but let let us know it. Monster talk for sure,
Yeah we want to know that. But yeah, you get
the Alfred Packer license for hunting the most dangerous game.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh no, yes, his h His cabin is near one
of our state wildlife areas. Now that we have a
newly acquired property and the cabin is nearby.
Speaker 6 (24:10):
Wow, that's cool.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Strange history. Check the show notes. I'll put a link
in for what we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Very interesting. So we we have a signature question. Yeah,
and I'm hoping this one, uh, you know, kind of
generates some some interesting thought on your part. But what
is your favorite monster?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It did make me stop and think about it, and
first you thought like, well, what what is a monster?
Speaker 3 (24:38):
You know?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Is this question? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Human? Is it non human? Formerly human? You know, it's
went through a lot of different a lot of different scenarios.
My my gut. My first reaction was to say Godzilla.
(25:02):
But then I feel like a lot of people say Godzilla.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Not a lot, but yeah, some.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
Some don't listen to them.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Come from your heart, not from what everybody else is doing.
That's that's all that matters.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I struggled with this though, at its core, because I
just associate monsters with horror movies and I don't. I
don't mess with horror movies. I'm just a big chicken.
They seem too real to me, and I can't.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
You're scary too, though, big chicken.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Here in Georgia we have a giant KFC with an
enormous like forty put chicken on top. They called the
Big Chicken. So yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
So I had to step back even further and thought
more about it, and I've landed on Predator. It's my
favorite monster. First Predator movie. I just really enjoy It's
very rewatchable to me, and I think it's just it's
(26:00):
on a lot of different things that I love about movies,
and uh, it's also kind of funny. It's just a
funny movie to me. And I think the the sequels
and like the remakes that Predator has done have also
been really consistent that you don't get in the weird
campiness maybe like one or two movies do, but that
(26:23):
the the series keeps evolving, you know. Watched Predators like
Killer of Killers, the animated series, I think it was
on Hulu this year. Loved that they had Predator set
in like a Samurai time period. I thought, I absolutely
need a full length movie of this. This is incredible.
And looking forward to Predator bad Lands that's coming out
(26:45):
later this year. I promise I'm not being paid to
do promotional work for them, but I'm I think it
looks great. So yeah, I think Predator and just like
the kind of ultimate monster. He's smart, yeah, very smart.
He's not just reactive, you know, he really studies what's
going on and then takes into account like all of
the different scenarios and things that they could do. Pray
(27:08):
was also a really incredible movie that I thought, uh
was just a great addition to the Predator franchise. So yes,
I've landed on Predator.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Nice you know, uh Predator Original Predator. Uh. It was
going to be Jean Cleavon dom but that didn't work out.
But Kevin Peter Hall I believe, was the actor, and
he also played Harry and Harry and the Henderson's We've
got a big foot tie in there.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, oh there you go. Yeah. I know I've read
a lot of chevy about the first one where Jean
Claude Pandam He's like, well, what do you mean I'm
in a suit? No, it's yeah, that's why I'm in
the movie.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It's like, no, it's because it's your it's your body type.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I like the way it turned out. It's such a
great film, so so so it's fun, thought provoking. Kara,
thank you so much for making time for us, and
thank you for doing, uh, you know, your work in
a public science sort of way. I really appreciate. I
know there's munications, but seriously. So much of what happens
with your group is tied into resource management and responsible
(28:07):
stewardship of our material world. So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, it's great to be able to kind of shut
a light on different things people didn't know about wildlife,
and I appreciate people taking an interest in.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
It, right. Thank you so much, Kara Hey and Matthew,
thanks for putting this together. And I think maybe you know,
it's really cool to be able to talk about a
topic that ties together monsters and current news and science
and public resource management, all these interesting topics that you
know sometimes elude us when we're just sitting in offices
(28:43):
or driving down the road. But this is our stuck
in traffic or whatever. But this is really neat stuff.
So I'll put some links in the show notes to
your group, and also about this virus and show kind
of the age of it, and a little bit about Jacobs,
which I'll probably honestly do a little research and doing
the intro or autro.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So I was pleasantly surprised to like researching this that
Jacolbes were mentioned, and like even some of our science
handouts maybe that we would give to the public of
it's probably where jacolopes came from. People thought they were
seen in Oh Okay.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
I'm really curious about that. A friend of mine wrote
a well it's not he passed away. But there's a
whole lot of articles about this sort of fad in
the nineteen thirties and forties for postcards showing giant fish,
giant vegetables and that sort of thing. And it feels
like the jacolobe sort of fits into that sort of
(29:40):
put a photo or you know, it's taxidermy, you know,
kind of hoaxing sort of thing.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
I grew up in North Park, Colorado.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Oh okay, and just about in.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Every kind of little old apothecary and you know old
store in that area, there would be a taxidermy jacalobe. Yes,
I figure it started by a taxidermist pulling a prank. Yeah,
he thought it was funny. Sure went from there. That
would be my assumption. And then life imitated arts and
(30:13):
we have this situation, but it probably didn't exactly happen
like that. Before we go out to the public, we'll
definitely fact check and figure out kind of where things fall.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
That's how we do. But yeah, but I love I
love getting the sort of like absolute most accurate science
we can, you know, and getting that out there. But
using monsters is a way to you know, talk about
this stuff. It's fun.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
So yeah, anything to get people interested in science.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
And nature exactly. Monster You've been listening to Monster Talk,
the science show about monsters. I'm Blake Smith and I'm
Karen Stolsner. You just heard an interview with Carravent who's
from Colorado Parks and Wildlife, about the rooteen outbreaks of
shop papillomavirus in Colorado rabbits. Remember, these aren't jackalopes, and
(31:06):
most of these rabbits will be fine. What's fascinating is
how curiosity about these grotesque but natural growths help researchers
discover that viruses can cause cancer, a discovery that decades
later made possible vaccines preventing common human cancers. Discovery often
works like that, unlikely links made by clear, persistent, and
(31:26):
curious investigation. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Monster Talk.
Each episode we strive to bring you the very best
in monster related content, with a focus on bringing scientific
skepticism into the conversation. If you enjoy Monster Talk, we
now have a variety of ways to support the show
all with convenient links at monster talk dot org forwarde
(31:48):
Slash support. That's monster talk dot org forwarge slash support.
We have links there to our Patreon page as well
as a donation button. Another great way to support the
show is to buy books from our Amazon Monster Talk
wish list, which directly helps us with our research. We
love used books very much, so don't feel compelled to
(32:08):
buy new ones, and we love kindles so we could
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and please share our show on your favorite social media platforms.
(32:33):
Monster Talks theme music is by Peach Stealing Monkeys. Thanks
for making us a part of your listening week.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
This has been a Monster House presentation.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
There is.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Well here. What behind the rabbit is the rabbit?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
You silly god?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
He goes all worked up? Why it's no ordinary?
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Leave it?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's the most.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Foul, cool and bad temper. Wouldn't you ever say? I
don't know kit, I saw my armor.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
I was so scared.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
That rabbit's got a Fishers Street mile wife. It's a killer.
He'll do you a.
Speaker 8 (34:04):
Cheat mate, monkey Scott's I'm wanting you.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
What's he doing?
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Nibble your bun.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
He's got sheet shop, he can leap about.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
Look at the bones, gone boys, chop his head off?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Right, silly little bitter one ready to come and right up.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Look Jesus Christ, I want you?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
What done it again?
Speaker 3 (34:33):
I warn you?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
But did you listen to me? Oh?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
No, you your ordn't you?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Oh it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it
Munster house presents.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Like a scabbyish looking kind of growth over her face.
Looks like it was black quills or black toothpicks sticking
out all around his mouth.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Susan Mansfield said she saw a different bunny with tentacles
in her yard in recent years.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
He had the same black stuff on him and I
thought he would die off during the winter, but he didn't.
He came back a second year, and it.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Grew some feel bad for our tiny neighbors. If Colorado
Parks and Wildlife confirms this is a virus that's not
contagious to other animals like people's dogs, but they say
leave this wildlife alone, like you would with any of
the neighborhood bunnies, well, it's.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before.
Speaker 4 (00:58):
A giant hairy creek here Marte parts.
Speaker 5 (01:03):
In Luckness, a twenty four a mile long bottomless lake
in the Highlands of Scotland. It's a creature known as
the Luckness Monster.
Speaker 4 (01:32):
Monstertal Welcome to Monster Talk, the science show about monsters.
I'm Blake Smith and.
Speaker 6 (01:39):
I'm Karen Stolsner.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Jackalobes are one of those monsters we've been meaning to
cover for pretty much the entire run of Monster Talk.
Somehow we never got to them until now. Well they're
back in the news, and there's a lot of confusion
between the made up jacalobe and it's very real biological analog.
That's what we'll be talking about in this episode. On
(02:02):
the surface, Jacoalopes are pretty silly. The taxidermity critter we
all know today isn't really a Montreal It's a piece
of folk art. We even know exactly who started it,
Brothers Douglas and Ralph Herrick, who in nineteen thirty two
in Douglas, Wyoming, attached to antlers to stuffed rabbits, and
that town still proudly calls itself Home of the Jackalope.
(02:26):
As the show ninety nine Percent Invisible has pointed out,
the novelty really spread thanks to Wall Drug in South Dakota,
a roadside attraction that has grown into a city block
sized emporium of kitsch. They sold jacoalope postcards, souvenirs, and
mounted specimens, helping turn the gag into modern Americana. But
(02:48):
while taxidermists were sewing together imaginary creatures, a researcher named
Richard Schope was studying something disturbingly close to the Herrick's
whimsical creation. Only this wasn't make believe. People began sending
him rabbits with grotesque corn like growths erupting from their
heads and faces. CHOP's studies revealed a few key things.
(03:10):
The growths were made of keratin like hair and nails,
They often sprouted from hair follicles as a wart like structure,
and while they were usually benign, sometimes they became malignant cancers.
Most importantly, Chop demonstrated that the disease was contagious and
caused by a virus, and his work was one of
(03:31):
the very first proofs that viruses could cause a cancer.
And the implications didn't stop with rabbits. This cottontail papilloma
virus turned out to have parallels in human papilloma viruses
or HPV, which also sometimes causes cancer. Decades later, that
line of research would contribute to the development of vaccines
(03:52):
which can now prevent many cases of cervical cancer in
human beings. Of course, today, when people stumble across a
rabbit these strange growths, the instinct is to study them.
It's to post photos online and spark around of viral
headlines about zombie bunnies, frankin rabbits, and cuthulhu hairs, and
that's exactly what's happening in Colorado right now. Local residents
(04:14):
are seeing these odd, though hardly rare rabbits, and social
media and local news are busy sensationalizing the outbreak. Today,
we'll be talking with Cara Van who's from the Colorado
Parks and Wildlife Department, to separate facts from folklore and
answer your questions about this peculiar but not particularly threatening condition. Mobstutle.
Speaker 6 (04:38):
We were in my wife and I and co host
of the show, Karen Stolesnow we were in Great Britain
at the time when suddenly we're seeing all these reports
of these either mutant rabbits or jackalobes or whatever just
coming out. Even some were saying zombie bunnies or just
(04:58):
coming in. And then then even Blake is messaging us
about it, and you know, it's leaving a lot of
the residents creeped out and concerned. And something strange is
causing the growths on the head and faces of these rabbits,
and I'm wondering, could it be proof that other cryptids
exist or is it a radioactive mutation or maybe aliens?
(05:20):
But here with us today we have Cara van Voss
and she is the spokesperson for the Colorado Department of
Wildlife And welcome to Monster Talk.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Thank you. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
So what is it that's causing these strange growths on
these otherwise adorable bunnies.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
It's not as exotic as people think. It's just a virus.
It's a form of the rabbit papaloma virus or also
known as the shop papolama virus that's coined after the
man who discovered it, doctor Richard Schope, And it's just
transmitted to them by fleas or ticks or mosquitoes, just
(05:57):
very common things in Colorado and really a lot of
other places too. And we see this transmitted to rabbits
in the summertime and then they just kind of grow
these things on their faces. They're kind of wart wart like,
that's how we're describing them. And they can manifest in
different ways like horns or maybe tentacles. Sometimes they look
(06:19):
like more traditional warts, like the smaller circular little growths,
but it looks different for each rabbit. And eventually because
it's a virus. The rabbits will defeat it. Their immune
system will take over and it'll clear it out of
their body and the growth will just fall off naturally.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Wow. I have to say that is actually a surprising
thing for me to. I had read about these We've
actually been reading about the virus for a long time
because we've been meaning to do an episode on jackalobes.
And there's this question of was the folklore slash I
don't know what amusement story of the jackalobe was that inspired?
(07:00):
Are these things or was it just a coincidence, like
convergent sort of narrative evolution, you know. So I don't
know the answer to that, but I was really delighted
because everything I read up to just now implied that
these things just continue to grow into the bunnies and
able to eat, and that seemed terrible. But it sounds
like they can actually survive. Are these soft? Are they hard?
(07:23):
Have you touched them?
Speaker 7 (07:24):
No?
Speaker 1 (07:24):
I've not touched them myself, But it's really not for
lack of trying. Really, I think rabbits are just pretty
fast creatures and wiggle their way into places where you
can't find them.
Speaker 6 (07:35):
Is this at all contagious to other species, can of spread.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
To humans, so it can be transmitted from rabbit to rabbit,
but we don't see it going to other species like
dogs or humans or other things that could come in
contact with the rabbits. It's a concern though for domestic bunnies.
So if you do own bunnies that you let them
outdoors and maybe they interact with wildlife, it's something to
keep in mind during the summer that it could happen,
(08:01):
you know, not only from other rabbits, but from those
same fleas, ticks, things that will bite them as well.
But no, we don't see that. I mean humans, we've
got our own form of the papalomavirus, you know, we've
got our own strain. But they tend to be like
hard like growths that happen on the rabbit spaces, so
they feel like warts. It's that same probably texture texture.
(08:23):
Sounds gross to say.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
These are in the news right now.
Speaker 8 (08:27):
Now.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I know for a fact I've seen old wood cutting,
so it's not a brand new thing. But why is
it in the news now. Is this an unusually busy
year for it, or just it just suddenly popped up,
or what's going on there.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
For whatever reason, people are really interested in it this year.
It's hard to say if there are more rabbits being
affected because this is a wild population, so we don't
really know, or if people just are simpthing more aware
of them. I think one of the first photos to
kind of go viral really showed in clear detais tale
the horns or the tentacles and then just caught like
(09:04):
like fire everywhere. Right, And I've done interviews on this
just internationally. Yeah, the UK was really interested, and then
a bunch here in the US. But we didn't get
any calls about the rabbits this year before the first
news story, So it's like the story happens and then
people maybe take more notice or decide, oh, Colorado Parks
(09:26):
and Wildlife wants to know about these things, and then
we start taking more calls. So it's probably some combination
of both. It can also depend to if we have
maybe a healthier flea and tich population that year, like
maybe this was a good rain year, or there are
more fleas and ticks out there, you know, distributing this virus.
It's it's difficult to say, and it's probably not just
(09:48):
one reason, but We're always really grateful for people taking
an interest in wildlife and science and nature. It's I
think it's cool to learn something new and learn about
what viruses can do, and that this is Thankfully the
human papaloma virus doesn't manifest itself like this. Imagine if
people just started growing horns.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
Because of that. Why I can't imagine that.
Speaker 9 (10:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Now do viral outbreaks like this tell
us anything about the health of the rabbit populations or
the ecosystem?
Speaker 6 (10:21):
Like you were saying, you know, maybe it's a good
rain year and that that's causing you know, the ticks
and fleas maybe to be out there more. But are
you does the Department of Wildlife kind of pay attention
to this in terms of the overall health of these
the ecosystem.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
If it was something that was unique, I think we would.
But because this is cyclical and we see this every summer,
it's something that we just know exists on our landscape.
If it was a new virus to Colorado, or if
it was something that was heavily impacting a threatened species,
Rabbits are plentiful in Colorado and across the states, so
(11:00):
we're we're not at all concerned about their wild population
because there are just so many of them. And yeah,
this virus is something that we've seen in Colorado for decades.
When we started getting questions about it and I turned
to our wildlife health experts at our lab, they were
confused why I was asking about it, because it's just
so common. They kind of scratching their heads, like, this
(11:23):
is it? We get this every summer. I said, I
don't know, people need to know, people.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Need Nothing is common until it hits YouTube.
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Well, well it's interesting. I mean, how many times something
completely mundane shows up? You know, it's nature, But since
we live inside and don't go out, you know, then
it's all surprising and weird and strange. But this is
I mean, I think visually this has always been really
interesting to me. Again, at least since two thousand and five,
(11:55):
when I've maybe first heard about it. But I don't
think I've ever seen it in real life for this
year in these photos, so I'd only seen drawings. But
is it regionally centered because I mean, we have obviously
rabbits here in Georgia. I've never seen anything like this before,
and I used to spend a lot of times outdoors
(12:16):
before I got a computer job and life got me. Anyway,
how far regionally does this sort of thing spread.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It can be all across Colorado. I think the majority
of our calls though this year coming from northern Colorado,
because that's where the first photos were taken in for Collins,
which is up near the border with Wyoming. But we've
heard of this across like the Midwest and the Northeast.
You know, it's something that a lot of different states
and regions deal with. And I wouldn't be surprised if
(12:48):
it also happens in Georgia. But maybe people just haven't noticed,
or they just don't see them.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
We think they're very small deers. We don't report it, right,
What do you do when you get reports like this?
If someone calls this in? I mean, how do you
handle those things?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
We treat it like an education opportunity. I think some
people want to know what's going on. They're concerned about
the rabbit's health because you know what a rabbit's face
is supposed to look like, and that's that's not it.
So in some cases it's just giving them more information
answering some questions. It's also us asking too, did the
rabbit look healthy? Was it able to move around? Was
(13:25):
it covering its mouth? That's when we really become concerned
for its health is if these growths take over sensitive
areas of the face, like around the mouth, and then
they're unable to eat or their eyes or you know
something like that. So yeah, we just do like a
little bit of an assessment there.
Speaker 6 (13:40):
Yeah, if someone was to stumble upon one of these,
that's that's really the kind of questions they should be
asking themselves. Is not how horrific you know that the
gross look, but how is the rabbit doing? Is that
what they should be paying attention to.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yes, is the rabbit okay? Is it interacting with other
you know, domestic animals or other wildlife? Am I keeping
my distance? But these are things that we would tell
them with any type of wildlife, not just these rabbits
that are infected with the virus right now. So we
would tell them the same thing with deer or with
bears or you know, birds, anything like that of just
(14:17):
let wildlife be wild.
Speaker 4 (14:20):
Interesting, Yeah, really curious.
Speaker 6 (14:24):
You kind of implied that there are things that are
normal that you know, people don't always see. So are
there other kind of normal health issues? That when the
general public sees it, they get a little freaked out
and maybe even think they're seeing something I don't know,
like a encryptid or something. I mean, are there other
(14:45):
kind of normal health issues that you see every year
that freak out the public.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
You've brought up zombie bunnies, but every few years, it
seems like people just learn about chronic wasting disease and
call them zombie deer. This is a neurological disease that
affects deer, elk, and pronghorn in Colorado, but mainly deer,
and it can make them appear as if they're they're
stumbling around and they're they're shaking their head. They can
(15:11):
act like how you think a zombie would or could act,
and it gets branded like that and then goes viral.
And we we've been dealing with CWD now for a
number of years, and it's something that we know exists
that we warn hunters about in case they take a deer.
You know, we study this the disease path and where
(15:33):
it's found in the different counties. But it's something that
is an unfortunate, normal thing that could happen to deer
in Colorado, but then somebody calls it zombie deer, and
then everybody kind of thinks they're learning about it for
the first time.
Speaker 6 (15:50):
I think it was last year, maybe the year before
on the Western Slope. I can't remember. If it was
a groundhog situation where there was a bunch of it
was reported as zombie a road and I believe of
some kind that didn't seem to be dying when they
should have, and that was like a big thing on
(16:10):
the Western Slope. I can look and see if I
can find the story on that if I need to
it maybe two years ago. Do you remember anything about that?
Speaker 1 (16:18):
You might be talking about our prairie dogs that are
known to get the plague. Yeah, yes, that the plague
still exists and the prairie dogs are particularly susceptible to them,
also transmitted through fleas. That is something that that exists
and is certainly concerned because prairie dogs are such an
important praise species in Colorado. We've got a lot of
(16:39):
predators that rely on their population for their food, and
that's something we have developed at CPW. We've developed a
plague vaccine for prairie dogs specifically, and we distribute that
to them and these little little pellets covered in peanut
butter and then dyed blue and we throw them out
(17:00):
to prairie dog burrows. I was on one of these
just the other week.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
That I do want to talk a little bit about
the role of science within the government and what contributions
citizens can do to sort of contribute to citizens science.
That's been a sort of recurring theme lately, because you know,
we're a show about monsters, but we're really a show
about science, and a lot of people who go out
into the woods to hunt for Bigfoot think they're doing science,
(17:29):
but there are ways that could actually contribute to the
general body of knowledge that a lot of them are
not doing.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
You know, we take a lot of bigfoot sightings in Colorado.
Oh yeah, will call in to CPW saying that they
have spotted bigfoot, and it's I will never turn down
anybody who calls saying they have Bigfoot information. We particularly
take this in like our southwest region of CPW, which
(18:00):
makes sense. It's got a lot of mountains, it's got
a lot of wooded areas. We have somebody who swore
up and down that Bigfoot visited their campsite and was
very interested in their twinkies that they had, So it's
that that's kind of how we you know, if we
needed to bait bigfoot, I think we would use twinkies.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
Oh, this twinkie thing, it ain't over yet.
Speaker 7 (18:25):
Let's say this twinkie represents the normal amount of psychokinetic
energy in the New York area according to this morning sample,
it would be a twinkie thirty five feet long, weighing
approximately six hundred pounds.
Speaker 6 (18:40):
That's a big twinkie.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
It lasts a long time in the field. That's important.
What true? Yeah, they don't go bad, It's very true.
Speaker 8 (18:49):
Is this really true? Can America's favorite snack really survived
decades without decomposing despite what culture may claim, despite the
best efforts a hostess food scientists, twinkies absolutely can and
do go bad, and fairly quickly at that.
Speaker 5 (19:06):
A pedant is someone who is overly concerned with formalistic
rules or insignificant details and or goes out of their
way to show off their own knowledge or academic learning.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
But getting back to the citizen science angle, people are
our eyes and ears in the field and what's going
on in the state, not only with the environment but
also with wildlife. This is why anybody who hunts or
fishes in Colorado can be asked to just tell us
what you saw out there and what you know, your
(19:38):
historical knowledge of these properties and these places that you
visit year after year. We ask them just to give
us kind of a download of the information there that
they experienced. And we can't be everywhere in Colorado. We're,
you know, an agency of what twelve hundred full time employees.
It would be impossible for us to get a handle
(19:59):
on what every go wildlife species is doing in the state.
And that's why we need the people who do live
there and do recreate in other areas to tell us
things that are going on. I've noticed that the deer
population in this area is a little smaller than last year.
Or I saw moose here two weeks ago and I've
never seen a moose there before. It's just these little
(20:22):
anecdotes that maybe you think are one offs or just
a good Facebook post, but really this helps us make
management decisions and it helps us gain a greater understanding
of what's going on in Colorado.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Do you have any sort of apps that people could
use to sort of report that data, or do you
send out queries or surveys or how does that work.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
We do send out surveys to certain hunters and anglers
and like game management units, or even when we're just
contacting them in the field checking licenses, you know, and
maybe they just call and tell us at our office.
You know, it could be any of the normal ways
that people would be talking to us. Anyway.
Speaker 4 (21:01):
People probably afraid to purport Bigfoot because you know, they
get that kill limit. You don't want to overdo your
you don't want to lose your license.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
It would be an extraordinary license to issue in Colorado,
and the amount of preference points that you would need
would just be astronomical. It'd be something like five thousand
preference points and you're never going to do that. You
get like one or two a year.
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Yeah, I don't know what that means. What does that mean?
Preference points?
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Sure, So that's how we determine what license goes to
whom in Colorado is through a point system. Okay, and
it's it can be weighted and it can be random.
But you every year you get a point and you
can either bank them and maybe save up for something
that costs a lot of points, like in a envirable area.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
I want to kill an elk, that's more points that
if I want to kill a tenttal cold hair, you know,
or rabbit or something what it could be.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yes, So if if you wanted to go elk hunting
and a place that it supposedly has really great options
for you, maybe that costs you more points than somewhere
else of oh I just want, like, you know, a
deer license somewhere else. So it's because Colorado is such
a desirable place to hunt that this is just a
(22:15):
more fair and equitable system of using preference points than say,
you know, you go out in Michigan and they're deer everywhere.
Maybe they do it, maybe they do it differently there,
but this is how Colorado does it.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
I do love that, like in the Pike's Peak area,
they have the Bigfoot Crossing science up on Pike's Peak,
and I love how they kind of have fun with that.
But I'm assuming that the Pike's Peak area probably gets
a lot of reports.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
It does, you know, it does up there, I would
say more so though in the Southwest region or even
there's an area of Colorado called Evergreen, you know, in
Jefferson County. I think we take a lot of reports
from there. The Bigfoot Museum in Colorado's also sort of
around Evergreen, so I think people just have maybe a
heightened awareness.
Speaker 6 (23:03):
Yes, I've been there.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I'm not surprised.
Speaker 6 (23:06):
Absolutely, Yes, yeah, that's it's absolutely fascinating of what I think.
Colorado was the fifth top of bigfoot reports. But I
can never keep track if that's if that was several
years ago or if that's current. But I know we
we a lot. So I have not seen him myself,
(23:29):
as much as I try to get out. But still,
you know, you never know, you never know.
Speaker 1 (23:34):
It happened anytime anyplace.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
Right, If you see a bigfoot with giant horns and tentacles,
you know obviously that's let us know, right, So do not.
I mean, you can let the Department of Wildlife know,
but let let us know it. Monster talk for sure,
Yeah we want to know that. But yeah, you get
the Alfred Packer license for hunting the most dangerous game.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh no, yes, his h His cabin is near one
of our state wildlife areas. Now that we have a
newly acquired property and the cabin is nearby.
Speaker 6 (24:10):
Wow, that's cool.
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Strange history. Check the show notes. I'll put a link
in for what we're talking about.
Speaker 6 (24:16):
Very interesting. So we we have a signature question. Yeah,
and I'm hoping this one, uh, you know, kind of
generates some some interesting thought on your part. But what
is your favorite monster?
Speaker 1 (24:30):
It did make me stop and think about it, and
first you thought like, well, what what is a monster?
Speaker 3 (24:38):
You know?
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Is this question? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Human? Is it non human? Formerly human? You know, it's
went through a lot of different a lot of different scenarios.
My my gut. My first reaction was to say Godzilla.
(25:02):
But then I feel like a lot of people say Godzilla.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Not a lot, but yeah, some.
Speaker 6 (25:05):
Some don't listen to them.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
Come from your heart, not from what everybody else is doing.
That's that's all that matters.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I struggled with this though, at its core, because I
just associate monsters with horror movies and I don't. I
don't mess with horror movies. I'm just a big chicken.
They seem too real to me, and I can't.
Speaker 6 (25:26):
You're scary too, though, big chicken.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Here in Georgia we have a giant KFC with an
enormous like forty put chicken on top. They called the
Big Chicken. So yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (25:39):
So I had to step back even further and thought
more about it, and I've landed on Predator. It's my
favorite monster. First Predator movie. I just really enjoy It's
very rewatchable to me, and I think it's just it's
(26:00):
on a lot of different things that I love about movies,
and uh, it's also kind of funny. It's just a
funny movie to me. And I think the the sequels
and like the remakes that Predator has done have also
been really consistent that you don't get in the weird
campiness maybe like one or two movies do, but that
(26:23):
the the series keeps evolving, you know. Watched Predators like
Killer of Killers, the animated series, I think it was
on Hulu this year. Loved that they had Predator set
in like a Samurai time period. I thought, I absolutely
need a full length movie of this. This is incredible.
And looking forward to Predator bad Lands that's coming out
(26:45):
later this year. I promise I'm not being paid to
do promotional work for them, but I'm I think it
looks great. So yeah, I think Predator and just like
the kind of ultimate monster. He's smart, yeah, very smart.
He's not just reactive, you know, he really studies what's
going on and then takes into account like all of
the different scenarios and things that they could do. Pray
(27:08):
was also a really incredible movie that I thought, uh
was just a great addition to the Predator franchise. So yes,
I've landed on Predator.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Nice you know, uh Predator Original Predator. Uh. It was
going to be Jean Cleavon dom but that didn't work out.
But Kevin Peter Hall I believe, was the actor, and
he also played Harry and Harry and the Henderson's We've
got a big foot tie in there.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, oh there you go. Yeah. I know I've read
a lot of chevy about the first one where Jean
Claude Pandam He's like, well, what do you mean I'm
in a suit? No, it's yeah, that's why I'm in
the movie.
Speaker 6 (27:42):
You know.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
It's like, no, it's because it's your it's your body type.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
I like the way it turned out. It's such a
great film, so so so it's fun, thought provoking. Kara,
thank you so much for making time for us, and
thank you for doing, uh, you know, your work in
a public science sort of way. I really appreciate. I
know there's munications, but seriously. So much of what happens
with your group is tied into resource management and responsible
(28:07):
stewardship of our material world. So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Yeah, it's great to be able to kind of shut
a light on different things people didn't know about wildlife,
and I appreciate people taking an interest in.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
It, right. Thank you so much, Kara Hey and Matthew,
thanks for putting this together. And I think maybe you know,
it's really cool to be able to talk about a
topic that ties together monsters and current news and science
and public resource management, all these interesting topics that you
know sometimes elude us when we're just sitting in offices
(28:43):
or driving down the road. But this is our stuck
in traffic or whatever. But this is really neat stuff.
So I'll put some links in the show notes to
your group, and also about this virus and show kind
of the age of it, and a little bit about Jacobs,
which I'll probably honestly do a little research and doing
the intro or autro.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
So I was pleasantly surprised to like researching this that
Jacolbes were mentioned, and like even some of our science
handouts maybe that we would give to the public of
it's probably where jacolopes came from. People thought they were
seen in Oh Okay.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
I'm really curious about that. A friend of mine wrote
a well it's not he passed away. But there's a
whole lot of articles about this sort of fad in
the nineteen thirties and forties for postcards showing giant fish,
giant vegetables and that sort of thing. And it feels
like the jacolobe sort of fits into that sort of
(29:40):
put a photo or you know, it's taxidermy, you know,
kind of hoaxing sort of thing.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
I grew up in North Park, Colorado.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Oh okay, and just about in.
Speaker 6 (29:51):
Every kind of little old apothecary and you know old
store in that area, there would be a taxidermy jacalobe. Yes,
I figure it started by a taxidermist pulling a prank. Yeah,
he thought it was funny. Sure went from there. That
would be my assumption. And then life imitated arts and
(30:13):
we have this situation, but it probably didn't exactly happen
like that. Before we go out to the public, we'll
definitely fact check and figure out kind of where things fall.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
That's how we do. But yeah, but I love I
love getting the sort of like absolute most accurate science
we can, you know, and getting that out there. But
using monsters is a way to you know, talk about
this stuff. It's fun.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
So yeah, anything to get people interested in science.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
And nature exactly. Monster You've been listening to Monster Talk,
the science show about monsters. I'm Blake Smith and I'm
Karen Stolsner. You just heard an interview with Carravent who's
from Colorado Parks and Wildlife, about the rooteen outbreaks of
shop papillomavirus in Colorado rabbits. Remember, these aren't jackalopes, and
(31:06):
most of these rabbits will be fine. What's fascinating is
how curiosity about these grotesque but natural growths help researchers
discover that viruses can cause cancer, a discovery that decades
later made possible vaccines preventing common human cancers. Discovery often
works like that, unlikely links made by clear, persistent, and
(31:26):
curious investigation. We hope you've enjoyed this episode of Monster Talk.
Each episode we strive to bring you the very best
in monster related content, with a focus on bringing scientific
skepticism into the conversation. If you enjoy Monster Talk, we
now have a variety of ways to support the show
all with convenient links at monster talk dot org forwarde
(31:48):
Slash support. That's monster talk dot org forwarge slash support.
We have links there to our Patreon page as well
as a donation button. Another great way to support the
show is to buy books from our Amazon Monster Talk
wish list, which directly helps us with our research. We
love used books very much, so don't feel compelled to
(32:08):
buy new ones, and we love kindles so we could
share our digital libraries with each other, and finally, without
spending any money at all. You can support us by
leaving a positive review at iTunes or wherever you get
your podcasts. Positive reviews help keep us visible in iTunes,
which is a great way to help us find you listeners,
and please share our show on your favorite social media platforms.
(32:33):
Monster Talks theme music is by Peach Stealing Monkeys. Thanks
for making us a part of your listening week.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
This has been a Monster House presentation.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
There is.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
Well here. What behind the rabbit is the rabbit?
Speaker 1 (33:42):
You silly god?
Speaker 4 (33:45):
He goes all worked up? Why it's no ordinary?
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Leave it?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
That's the most.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
Foul, cool and bad temper. Wouldn't you ever say? I
don't know kit, I saw my armor.
Speaker 5 (33:56):
I was so scared.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
That rabbit's got a Fishers Street mile wife. It's a killer.
He'll do you a.
Speaker 8 (34:04):
Cheat mate, monkey Scott's I'm wanting you.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
What's he doing?
Speaker 6 (34:09):
Nibble your bun.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
He's got sheet shop, he can leap about.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
Look at the bones, gone boys, chop his head off?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Right, silly little bitter one ready to come and right up.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Look Jesus Christ, I want you?
Speaker 4 (34:32):
What done it again?
Speaker 3 (34:33):
I warn you?
Speaker 4 (34:34):
But did you listen to me? Oh?
Speaker 1 (34:36):
No, you your ordn't you?
Speaker 4 (34:38):
Oh it's just a harmless little bunny, isn't it
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