May 22, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode, from an interview Karen Beilharz conducted in August 2024, Sarah Rootes, Assistant Pastor for Kids and Youth at Crossroads Christian Church in Canberra, Australia, tells the story of how she was introduced to Jesus, how she came to do childrens and youth ministry, and how her study at Moore Theological College has helped her in her work.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Welcome to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College in Sydney, Australia, that seeks
to glorify God through biblically sound, thought-provoking and challenging talks and interviews.
In this episode, from an interview that I, Karen Beilharz, conducted in August 2024, Sarah Rootes, Assistant Pastor for Kids
(00:32):
and Youth at Crossroads Christian Church in Canberra, Australia, tells the story of how she was introduced to Jesus, how
she came to do children's and youth ministry, and how her study at Moore Theological College has helped her in her work.
We hope you find the episode helpful.
(00:53):
So, Sarah, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, like where you grew up, who lives in your family, that sort of thing?
Yeah.
I grew up out in Central West, New South Wales.
So I was born in Parkes, but grew up mainly in Dubbo, where dad worked as an electrician and mom worked in one of the local schools.
We lived on a, not a property, but like five acres outside of town.
(01:16):
And so it was kind of nice to have a bit of that peace and quiet of not being in the hustle and bustle of a country town or country city.
It was me and my three siblings as well.
And so was there up until the time I came to Canberra for university.
Wow.
And are you family Christian, non Christian?
We were raised in a Christian household, but since I was a child, things have kind of, I guess, become complicated
(01:39):
for some of us, and so mom and dad raised us to know who God is and have a personal relationship with him.
But since then, it's only my mom and my younger brother and I who still follow Jesus and the others have slightly complicated relationship.
So basically, has there ever been a time when you haven't known about Jesus—haven't known the gospel?
(02:05):
Yeah, I can't recall a time not knowing about him, but.
They're having key moments in life where I guess there were giant leaps forward
maybe or big aha moments of understanding who Jesus is and what he's done for us.
So like I think one of the clearest moments as a child was I was around eight and they kind of were.
(02:27):
Speaking about heaven and our sin and the realities of those things.
And I was at church and they invited us to kind of make that decision to follow Jesus and have eternity secured and taken care of.
And that really appealed to an anxious mind that I had as a child and thought if I know
the future's taken care of, maybe that will, that's just one less thing on my mind.
(02:48):
But I do remember wanting that really clearly, like wanting to know Jesus and wanting part of that family and that trusting him.
Of his death on the cross.
And so it was that kind of really clear gospel, will you follow him moment.
But it wasn't until very late in high school or early uni years where I started to understand that grace of being saved meant for how I live now.
(03:12):
And so got to have some of those aha moments of like, oh God, God's not only faithful and takes care
of our future, but he's actually had to forgive what's happened in the past and like, forgive my sin.
And so recognizing it wasn't just like behaving well because I was a Christian, but
actually wanting to please God because of the undeserved gift of grace that he's given us.
(03:34):
And so that was really awesome because it just exploded my life in terms of that personal relationship with God and like
wanting to be in the word and kind of going, oh, I can act differently in this situation now as I relate to my friends.
Or it's not just to be good, but actually there's that love and grace that's driving us.
I think from that moment, there was a moment in uni where it was like, all right, well I keep following Jesus or maybe I'll go my own way.
(03:59):
And I kind of decided to go all in with Jesus, I suppose, or really kind of say no to the other way of life.
And yeah, I think since then that it's been really good to see how God continuously reveals himself to me.
But in doing that, I understand myself better.
And so anyway, I think that's what I'm learning in the last five years.
(04:22):
I, I do that by knowing God well, and that helps me just be a part of his
family and community and kind of serve in those ways and it's been really nice.
Yeah.
So what were you doing at uni study wise?
I went to do sports management, which.
I wasn't because a great desire to become like Jerry McGuire or something like that.
(04:43):
But I really loved sport.
I love the competition and community of that and I didn't think I could do physio.
So anyway, ended up there doing sports management mainly I wanted to be in Canberra.
I know God thing maybe, or I just kind of knew would be a good fit.
Started sports management but cared more about the atheist group on campus and church things more than I ever did what I was studying.
(05:10):
What particular sports are you into?
I grew up playing soccer and cricket and so really enjoyed those.
I got into touch while I was at uni and a bit of ultimate Frisbee.
I kind kind of had the attitude of, I
kind of test skills, the strategy of sport too.
(05:31):
How
living best
in and like,
at what point did you start thinking, oh, I should be doing.
You did say that you cared more about what was going on with the A group and at church and stuff rather than studying.
(05:53):
Mm.
But at what point did somebody tap you on the shoulder and say, Hmm, have you thought about ministry?
Yeah.
Was a tap on the shoulder.
I think I kind of started to get involved with leadership things at church, so
I was leading a bible study for church and teaching kids on Sunday mornings.
I was kind of involved in the leadership stuff with the A PS group.
(06:13):
And being to read the Bible with people and think about it in that way.
And I think I probably would never have considered it until someone I'd been reading the Bible with.
She sat me down, well, she was doing Ts, so she was probably on the lookout for people like me, but sat me down and said, you thought about this.
And I honestly hadn't, because I think for lots of reasons, but growing up, I don't think I'd seen that many people in formal ministry roles.
(06:39):
I don't think I'd seen that many women in formal ministry roles.
And so I really thought it had to be this thing that like God had this call on your life from the time you were a child.
Like I think, I believe the Amy Carmichael type of stories of like, I'm gonna go and be a missionary overseas or something.
And I'm like, that's not me.
So I can't be me in this space.
But I always had a deep love for kids and seeing kids learn the Bible and had kind of grown so much myself through others reading the
(07:05):
Bible with me so that when someone kind of tapped me on the shoulder, I was like, oh yeah, I mean, if God could use me in that way.
I'd be keen.
And then did attend like some like MTS Mission-Minded style, I think it was called Spur back in the day, but went to those and kind
of got reminded of the reality of heaven and hell and the brevity of life and the centrality of the cross and those types of things.
(07:27):
And so came away from those going, well, if not me, then who?
And I'm kind of willing, so lets go.
And so year after uni to honor my parents.
Wanted me to use the degree they had helped pay for when, that's fair enough.
But yeah, began MTS in 2014 just after I'd done that one year of work.
(07:50):
So Canberras was at that time, linked with Crossroads Christian Church.
And so you did a dual MTS.
So I was on the campus of a NU with students.
On a Sunday morning with Crossroads and yeah, learning how to coordinate a
ministry like that and write programs and train leaders and things like that.
(08:15):
And so yeah, it was a really good two years.
I learned there's a lot of like self reflect and learning how the behind the
scenes of church and ministry works, that there's a lot questions you need to ask.
Yeah.
I wouldn't have used these words back then, but you know, learning that God's at work
and we trust him to be at work, but we also need to plan and do work alongside that.
(08:37):
And so, yeah, it was really helpful in that way.
And as I was coming to the end of MTS, I wasn't quite ready to come to College for various
reasons, so God provided a job at another church here in Canberra to be their kids minister.
And so I worked there for two years.
Program training, being in the youth ministry.
(09:00):
So that was really helpful.
By the time I end, like I College,
College at point in.
Yeah.
So you obviously have a heart for kids and youth ministry.
Yes.
And you did mention you got a deep love for kids and seeing kids learn the Bible.
Is there other things in particular that make you really love that area of ministry and have the passion for it?
(09:23):
When I remember the people who taught me the Bible, like as a kid, and it was my parents, but I watched my mom serve in the kids' ministry,
so that model, but like the other older people in church, she taught me from the Bible as well and wanted us to learn about these things.
When I was growing up, I didn't actually benefit from her ministry, but there
was a woman at my church in Dubbo who I think reflected this deep love too.
(09:46):
She just cared for the young people in the church.
And so they would do very creative term programs, but would bring on the youth to be junior leaders
and things like that, and cared about them loving church as well and learning from the Bible.
And so I think those things were kind of like the building blocks.
Crossroads, that idea that they really wanted to see kids, not just learn
(10:11):
stories from the Bible, but actually learn the God of the, and learn about Jesus.
And so at.
Which I think I would've believed for myself, but when I look back, I was like, oh, I think I just learn stories about kilter.
And it was very much like Jesus focused.
And so this idea that we could teach the Bible in its entirety and like teach kids about
(10:35):
Jesus from all through the Bible and with biblical theology and stuff was new to me.
And so I think I just fell in love with the idea of creatively teaching and age appropriately teaching the Bible to people so that at any age.
Is and.
(10:59):
So I just love being able to walk alongside them.
And lately at church there's a young girl who just loves to tell us how much she's encouraged by her leaders and the impact that
they're having on her life and other kids who drag their parents home early to come to our after school kids club and things like that.
Again, because of the leaders and the friends that are there, and there's just something special in their enthusiasm too.
(11:21):
They see a good thing and they know after it.
You said you weren't quite ready for College after MTS, and so you took that other job.
Mm.
Was it that made you not feel like you were ready for College?
Yeah, it was various things.
I think largely I'm not great with change, and so there were a few decisions behind going, what do I do
at the end of MTS that were, I guess, overwhelming me in a sense, but one, it was like, am ready move.
(11:51):
Right.
Which College do I choose to go to?
I think a little bit of question of self confided of do I actually have what it takes?
Like College is a big investment.
What if I'm just faking it or something?
Im like, maybe I'm faking in ministry and people are saying I'd be, but maybe I wouldn't actually be.
I think I wasn't quite convinced of the need for theological education doing two.
(12:22):
I couldn't quite see how it was benefiting those who were training me.
And I think I needed to kind of, well, in the end, being in the role of the kids minister, kids in youth space, it
was like, oh, I need this foundation in this grounding myself, because I was always having to go to someone else.
And so my work was just twice as hard most of the time because.
I couldn't start the process of working out how to help somebody by myself.
(12:44):
I kept needing one of the other pastors to help me out or something like that.
And then just some self-growth stuff I think in there was just still working through how to do life well and things like that.
So going into College, did you have any particular expectations of how it would be or any anxiety or that sort of thing?
I hadn't studied in a long, it was five years since I finished my, when I got there.
(13:09):
I hadn't been great at study during university, and I thought that I had been because I was
distracted by other things, or I guess a belief that maybe I'm just not great academically.
And so I was a bit nervous about just the study side of it, and it did take me probably
the better half of the first semester to work out actually how to get content in.
(13:36):
Everyone was convinced you'd kind of make friends for life there and I was a bit
skeptical at that at first, or, yeah, or just like the in community side of it.
I could understand the benefits of, but also I was nervous of what that would be like.
I just had come out of a very difficult house situation in 2017 beforehand, so it.
(13:57):
What will my roommates be like?
Mm. But yeah, I probably, for the most part, and probably throughout my entire college degree, was always mostly fearful or anxious
about that being found out as like being a fake amongst the real people or something like, so just the imposter syndrome of like.
Am I really on the right path here?
Like could it be that I love God enough or have a heart for a certain type of people and for the whole time that was there.
(14:23):
And then it probably took about the four years to work through the fact that we've all a for God and it's gonna express itself differently.
And so you can just love people's strengths and be proud of your own and those kinds.
People, again, their strengths and weaknesses and my own and things like that.
(14:44):
Yep.
Yeah.
So during your time at College, did it work out that the study aspect was the most challenging thing?
Was there something else?
Did your time overlap with Covid slightly as well?
Yeah, it did.
So I suppose you could say study in some ways was the least of my worries.
My first year we were moved outta Carilion.
Second year there was like carilion stuff kind of being finalized.
(15:09):
And fourth year was Covid 2.0.
So yeah, disrupted kind of study patterns and community life, you could say.
I think I also over the time, had to come to terms with living with anxiety.
Kind of knew I had anxiety before I got to College, but hadn't really accepted it yet.
(15:30):
Over those four years where reaching like rock bottom and trying to work out how my brain works and interprets the world and things like that.
And so, yeah.
And normally brought on by fairly considerable stresses outside of that.
So yeah, things like moving or not knowing how we're gonna study or Yeah, in fourth year was a combination of.
(15:55):
In two weeks and my nan was dying and something was happening anyway, was full on.
Again, living through it, not great on the other side of it.
Really thankful for what God was doing in that time.
Really great to be able to be learning about while you cope with anxiety in some ways and around you.
(16:17):
The study essay.
So helpful just to kind of be reflecting on those aspects of the Christian life or on a certain aspect of God's character or like the work of
Christ, or even just your death, maybe like you're just doing Greek, you kind of marveling at all that God's actually given us in those ways, but.
(16:38):
It was just like the perfect combination of like you're studying, but then I did have this space to actually be working through the
personal stuff as well, to kind of come out the other side with a much more realistic view of the way my mind works and approaches
things, but then having the foundation of, uh, really strong understanding of the Bible to kind of work that through as well.
Was there anything that surprised you about College while you were here?
(17:02):
Probably a lot.
Part of the quick decision making was that I did no research into more at all when I first got there.
This is gonna sound so silly.
I was surprised at the Anglican ness of it, which is just like, it's the Anglican training College.
So I dunno what I expected, but I didn't grow up in an Anglican church.
I knew of it as a denomination and kind of what they believed.
(17:25):
So I think that was surprising to me to learn about the history of the Anglican Church and their place in history.
Like not only as a denomination, but just kind of coming outta the English reformation and things like that.
And then just getting used to chapels and prayer book services and things like that, which was really great.
Uh, I really enjoyed them and felt enriched by them, so that was a nice surprise.
(17:48):
I think the community again.
People or maybe like the extracurriculars of being at College, like it's really different to your university experience
and even more so now you can kind of tap in and out uni, watch things online, you go to yours and things like that.
(18:09):
But the community adds a richness that also adds trickiness, I suppose.
You've got lots of different desires and expectations, not your but, and.
I.
(18:35):
Two minutes call.
Way it its way into my heart a little bit.
What were some of the big things God was teaching you during your College time?
Because you already talked a little bit about how you were learning about God and learning about yourself and how the two have fed into each other.
(19:00):
Do you wanna add to that at all?
I think I, that you can never learn enough about God.
A bottomless ocean or something like that.
Like it just keeps going.
I think came away with a deeper appreciation of, I talk about this to you in in orientation week, but like you've
(19:20):
got biblical studies and then Christian thought and then Christian ministry to cover the, that you're doing.
And I think maybe if you'd asked me beforehand what I thought I was gonna be learning at College again, I probably thought up in biblical.
But actually because God is so relational preparing for ministry, it wasn't just about filling up the knowledge
(19:45):
tank and knowing the original language or being able to sound like a commentary when you come outta it, but
that College was really keen to shape our character alongside that and to shape our thinking so that we could.
Up in that.
And so that's being reminded.
God is the God of the, and then he works
(20:06):
through all these different ways.
Yeah.
Now that you've finished up at More, so you're Crossroads Christian Church in Canberra, what do you do there?
And also what is the church like?
So I am a kids in youth pastor at Crossroads.
We really wanna reach Canberra.
We are based in North Canberra.
We wanna see disciples of Jesus in Canberra and beyond, but based in North Canberra, we have four services that meet concurrently on a Sunday.
(20:32):
So two in like the inner north over the four services.
We might have like close to 800 each week.
That's including our kids in youth.
I work with Andy Copeman, who's also in the youth space, and Ru, who's in the kids space.
And so not quite right share, but we have.
Between the three of usm, kind of this connection link between the two.
(20:56):
I think that goal when I first came on was to help give unity to the kids in ministry overall.
But in reality it's a little bit different to that, but it's lot of fun trying to work out how to do that with one another.
So how has your training at Moore helped you in this role?
(21:19):
And recognizing that missing foundation.
Like I knew how to read my Bible and I knew how to read it well, but there was just this of like, how do you piece
together doctrine and how do you know where to go for certain questions that people have and things like that.
And I think the training at MORE really helped me to, I guess, fit all of those pieces that I've already had into a package.
(21:43):
But I think about them for.
I grew in my confidence of knowing the history behind why we think that certain things or the traditions
we follow or thinking about, oh, there's this heresy of modalism, but that's actually not a new thing.
It happened all the way back with the early church fathers.
It helps you kind of piece together how we've been wrestling with God's revealed word the whole time.
(22:06):
And so when it comes to questions that the youth or kids have, or trying to teach something.
Practically, my program writing is much more filled out now.
I'd be like, passage, teach it this way.
But now I actually know how to help piece together a program in a more kind of—it has more and IT unit as opposed to.
(22:28):
I mean, they're not embarrassing because I just haven't been trained yet.
But the ones I wrote beforehand, I'm like, oh, what was I thinking?
They're just missing things.
They're missing that depth and that grounding that I think I only have now because of College and because of the things I learned there.
To be able to hold the bigger picture together while zooming in, I think pastorally in.
(22:54):
Probably College has helped me in that.
Going back to that I know myself better and I know who I'm in God with greater confidence, and so it just
means I'm thinking about myself less maybe when I wanna be thinking about the youth and caring for them.
Just being able to spend that time at College to reflect on who God is and reflect on that in myself, I think has had great benefit.
(23:18):
The first couple years, still a bit dicey after College, but now that I'm three years
out, like much more settled and I think it just helps me be able to train my leaders.
It helps me be able to direct them in discipling the youth or kids underneath them well, and thankful for that.
Wonderful.
Last question, what are the things that you love about serving in Canberra as opposed to the big cities or whatever?
(23:43):
Yeah.
What is it about this kind of ministry?
The reason Canberra specifically is because I knew the team here.
Again, that's that project thing.
I was like, I could see myself serving here, the team I trusted and I knew I could work with them.
But missionally, or I guess that what compelled me to actually come here, one reason I think I keep
(24:05):
thinking about is because Canberra was so pivotal in my own walk with God or my own faith journey that
like I often say, you know how they talk about developmental years with children and things like that.
I often say I had my developmental years here in Canberra, so like I grew up as a Christian here, and it only happened because
of people serving here wanting to see young kids come in for uni leave with a love for Jesus, and serving him their whole lives.
(24:33):
And so I'm really on board with that and I wanna see.
I mean, everywhere you live is a type of bubble, but Canberra has a real public service,
comfortable, because we're called the most comfortable city in the world or something like that.
People's incomes are crazy high.
There's a lot of political correctness in terms of people are thinking about policy and red tape and things like that.
(24:54):
So there is this Canberra bubble we think in a very unique way.
First thing that bubble when I went to Sydney was a real shock too.
Like, yeah, I know.
I know, but actually it's, and so it's hard work in that sense.
Move slower than in other areas, but just again, wanting to see kids and youth not despairing at the state
of the world or being drawn into political correctness or even that desire to follow jobs and career.
(25:21):
You just wanna see them on fire for Jesus.
And so like a goal for youth is to see kids leave school on Jesus and come.
And wanting to serve him from a young age.
Being able to do that with a team that I love and trust is really great.
Yeah, growing up regionally too, it's just like resources.
(25:45):
People who are there to stay, people who wanna invest in your life.
I mean, you need that everywhere, but it's just harder to get in regional areas and so.
College.
I was considering jobs in Queensland or like out in Armadale, or if I knew people out there, I'd probably have gone anywhere.
It's kind of that I don't want kids to miss out on what I missed out on, but I don't think I actually missed out on anything too much.
(26:07):
But you wanna be that person, the people I had.
You wanna be that for them too.
Thank you for listening to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College.
Our vision as a College is to see God glorified by men and women living for
(26:30):
and proclaiming Jesus Christ, growing healthy churches and reaching the lost.
This interview is just one of many from the College's 100 Ministry Stories project.
For more than 160 years, Moore Theological College has been sending men and women into a wide
range of ministries in Sydney, every state of Australia and almost every continent in the world.
(26:53):
The 100 Ministry Stories project helps us to remember and praise God for the work that he has been doing in the world in our times.
Remembering what God has done in our lives helps us respond to our world steadfast hope.
It is our prayer that as you hear how the Lord is at work, you'll be encouraged in your faith and built up in joyful assurance.
Find out more on our website.
(27:15):
That's more moore.edu.au/100, spelled out in numerals.
If you are a graduate and keen to contribute to the 100 Ministry Stories project, we would love to hear from you.
Get in contact with the Communications Team to express your interest or to find out more.
You can find out more and register by going to the Moore College website (27:39):
moore.edu.au.
That's moore.edu.au.
If you have not already done so, we encourage you to subscribe to our podcast
through your favourite podcast platform so that you'll never miss an episode.
For past episodes, further resources, and to make a tax deductible donation to support
(28:01):
the work of the College and its mission, please visit our website at moore.edu.au.
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We always benefit from feedback from our listeners, so if you'd like to get in touch, you can email us at comms@moore.edu.au.
(28:27):
The Moore in the Word Podcast was edited and produced by me, Karen Beilharz, and the Communications Team at Moore Theological College.
The music for our podcast was provided by MarkJuly from PixaBay.
Until next time.
Welcome to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College in Sydney, Australia, that seeks
to glorify God through biblically sound, thought-provoking and challenging talks and interviews.
In this episode, from an interview that I, Karen Beilharz, conducted in August 2024, Sarah Rootes, Assistant Pastor for Kids
(00:32):
and Youth at Crossroads Christian Church in Canberra, Australia, tells the story of how she was introduced to Jesus, how
she came to do children's and youth ministry, and how her study at Moore Theological College has helped her in her work.
We hope you find the episode helpful.
(00:53):
So, Sarah, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, like where you grew up, who lives in your family, that sort of thing?
Yeah.
I grew up out in Central West, New South Wales.
So I was born in Parkes, but grew up mainly in Dubbo, where dad worked as an electrician and mom worked in one of the local schools.
We lived on a, not a property, but like five acres outside of town.
(01:16):
And so it was kind of nice to have a bit of that peace and quiet of not being in the hustle and bustle of a country town or country city.
It was me and my three siblings as well.
And so was there up until the time I came to Canberra for university.
Wow.
And are you family Christian, non Christian?
We were raised in a Christian household, but since I was a child, things have kind of, I guess, become complicated
(01:39):
for some of us, and so mom and dad raised us to know who God is and have a personal relationship with him.
But since then, it's only my mom and my younger brother and I who still follow Jesus and the others have slightly complicated relationship.
So basically, has there ever been a time when you haven't known about Jesus—haven't known the gospel?
(02:05):
Yeah, I can't recall a time not knowing about him, but.
They're having key moments in life where I guess there were giant leaps forward
maybe or big aha moments of understanding who Jesus is and what he's done for us.
So like I think one of the clearest moments as a child was I was around eight and they kind of were.
(02:27):
Speaking about heaven and our sin and the realities of those things.
And I was at church and they invited us to kind of make that decision to follow Jesus and have eternity secured and taken care of.
And that really appealed to an anxious mind that I had as a child and thought if I know
the future's taken care of, maybe that will, that's just one less thing on my mind.
(02:48):
But I do remember wanting that really clearly, like wanting to know Jesus and wanting part of that family and that trusting him.
Of his death on the cross.
And so it was that kind of really clear gospel, will you follow him moment.
But it wasn't until very late in high school or early uni years where I started to understand that grace of being saved meant for how I live now.
(03:12):
And so got to have some of those aha moments of like, oh God, God's not only faithful and takes care
of our future, but he's actually had to forgive what's happened in the past and like, forgive my sin.
And so recognizing it wasn't just like behaving well because I was a Christian, but
actually wanting to please God because of the undeserved gift of grace that he's given us.
(03:34):
And so that was really awesome because it just exploded my life in terms of that personal relationship with God and like
wanting to be in the word and kind of going, oh, I can act differently in this situation now as I relate to my friends.
Or it's not just to be good, but actually there's that love and grace that's driving us.
I think from that moment, there was a moment in uni where it was like, all right, well I keep following Jesus or maybe I'll go my own way.
(03:59):
And I kind of decided to go all in with Jesus, I suppose, or really kind of say no to the other way of life.
And yeah, I think since then that it's been really good to see how God continuously reveals himself to me.
But in doing that, I understand myself better.
And so anyway, I think that's what I'm learning in the last five years.
(04:22):
I, I do that by knowing God well, and that helps me just be a part of his
family and community and kind of serve in those ways and it's been really nice.
Yeah.
So what were you doing at uni study wise?
I went to do sports management, which.
I wasn't because a great desire to become like Jerry McGuire or something like that.
(04:43):
But I really loved sport.
I love the competition and community of that and I didn't think I could do physio.
So anyway, ended up there doing sports management mainly I wanted to be in Canberra.
I know God thing maybe, or I just kind of knew would be a good fit.
Started sports management but cared more about the atheist group on campus and church things more than I ever did what I was studying.
(05:10):
What particular sports are you into?
I grew up playing soccer and cricket and so really enjoyed those.
I got into touch while I was at uni and a bit of ultimate Frisbee.
I kind kind of had the attitude of, I
kind of test skills, the strategy of sport too.
(05:31):
How
living best
in and like,
at what point did you start thinking, oh, I should be doing.
You did say that you cared more about what was going on with the A group and at church and stuff rather than studying.
(05:53):
Mm.
But at what point did somebody tap you on the shoulder and say, Hmm, have you thought about ministry?
Yeah.
Was a tap on the shoulder.
I think I kind of started to get involved with leadership things at church, so
I was leading a bible study for church and teaching kids on Sunday mornings.
I was kind of involved in the leadership stuff with the A PS group.
(06:13):
And being to read the Bible with people and think about it in that way.
And I think I probably would never have considered it until someone I'd been reading the Bible with.
She sat me down, well, she was doing Ts, so she was probably on the lookout for people like me, but sat me down and said, you thought about this.
And I honestly hadn't, because I think for lots of reasons, but growing up, I don't think I'd seen that many people in formal ministry roles.
(06:39):
I don't think I'd seen that many women in formal ministry roles.
And so I really thought it had to be this thing that like God had this call on your life from the time you were a child.
Like I think, I believe the Amy Carmichael type of stories of like, I'm gonna go and be a missionary overseas or something.
And I'm like, that's not me.
So I can't be me in this space.
But I always had a deep love for kids and seeing kids learn the Bible and had kind of grown so much myself through others reading the
(07:05):
Bible with me so that when someone kind of tapped me on the shoulder, I was like, oh yeah, I mean, if God could use me in that way.
I'd be keen.
And then did attend like some like MTS Mission-Minded style, I think it was called Spur back in the day, but went to those and kind
of got reminded of the reality of heaven and hell and the brevity of life and the centrality of the cross and those types of things.
(07:27):
And so came away from those going, well, if not me, then who?
And I'm kind of willing, so lets go.
And so year after uni to honor my parents.
Wanted me to use the degree they had helped pay for when, that's fair enough.
But yeah, began MTS in 2014 just after I'd done that one year of work.
(07:50):
So Canberras was at that time, linked with Crossroads Christian Church.
And so you did a dual MTS.
So I was on the campus of a NU with students.
On a Sunday morning with Crossroads and yeah, learning how to coordinate a
ministry like that and write programs and train leaders and things like that.
(08:15):
And so yeah, it was a really good two years.
I learned there's a lot of like self reflect and learning how the behind the
scenes of church and ministry works, that there's a lot questions you need to ask.
Yeah.
I wouldn't have used these words back then, but you know, learning that God's at work
and we trust him to be at work, but we also need to plan and do work alongside that.
(08:37):
And so, yeah, it was really helpful in that way.
And as I was coming to the end of MTS, I wasn't quite ready to come to College for various
reasons, so God provided a job at another church here in Canberra to be their kids minister.
And so I worked there for two years.
Program training, being in the youth ministry.
(09:00):
So that was really helpful.
By the time I end, like I College,
College at point in.
Yeah.
So you obviously have a heart for kids and youth ministry.
Yes.
And you did mention you got a deep love for kids and seeing kids learn the Bible.
Is there other things in particular that make you really love that area of ministry and have the passion for it?
(09:23):
When I remember the people who taught me the Bible, like as a kid, and it was my parents, but I watched my mom serve in the kids' ministry,
so that model, but like the other older people in church, she taught me from the Bible as well and wanted us to learn about these things.
When I was growing up, I didn't actually benefit from her ministry, but there
was a woman at my church in Dubbo who I think reflected this deep love too.
(09:46):
She just cared for the young people in the church.
And so they would do very creative term programs, but would bring on the youth to be junior leaders
and things like that, and cared about them loving church as well and learning from the Bible.
And so I think those things were kind of like the building blocks.
Crossroads, that idea that they really wanted to see kids, not just learn
(10:11):
stories from the Bible, but actually learn the God of the, and learn about Jesus.
And so at.
Which I think I would've believed for myself, but when I look back, I was like, oh, I think I just learn stories about kilter.
And it was very much like Jesus focused.
And so this idea that we could teach the Bible in its entirety and like teach kids about
(10:35):
Jesus from all through the Bible and with biblical theology and stuff was new to me.
And so I think I just fell in love with the idea of creatively teaching and age appropriately teaching the Bible to people so that at any age.
Is and.
(10:59):
So I just love being able to walk alongside them.
And lately at church there's a young girl who just loves to tell us how much she's encouraged by her leaders and the impact that
they're having on her life and other kids who drag their parents home early to come to our after school kids club and things like that.
Again, because of the leaders and the friends that are there, and there's just something special in their enthusiasm too.
(11:21):
They see a good thing and they know after it.
You said you weren't quite ready for College after MTS, and so you took that other job.
Mm.
Was it that made you not feel like you were ready for College?
Yeah, it was various things.
I think largely I'm not great with change, and so there were a few decisions behind going, what do I do
at the end of MTS that were, I guess, overwhelming me in a sense, but one, it was like, am ready move.
(11:51):
Right.
Which College do I choose to go to?
I think a little bit of question of self confided of do I actually have what it takes?
Like College is a big investment.
What if I'm just faking it or something?
Im like, maybe I'm faking in ministry and people are saying I'd be, but maybe I wouldn't actually be.
I think I wasn't quite convinced of the need for theological education doing two.
(12:22):
I couldn't quite see how it was benefiting those who were training me.
And I think I needed to kind of, well, in the end, being in the role of the kids minister, kids in youth space, it
was like, oh, I need this foundation in this grounding myself, because I was always having to go to someone else.
And so my work was just twice as hard most of the time because.
I couldn't start the process of working out how to help somebody by myself.
(12:44):
I kept needing one of the other pastors to help me out or something like that.
And then just some self-growth stuff I think in there was just still working through how to do life well and things like that.
So going into College, did you have any particular expectations of how it would be or any anxiety or that sort of thing?
I hadn't studied in a long, it was five years since I finished my, when I got there.
(13:09):
I hadn't been great at study during university, and I thought that I had been because I was
distracted by other things, or I guess a belief that maybe I'm just not great academically.
And so I was a bit nervous about just the study side of it, and it did take me probably
the better half of the first semester to work out actually how to get content in.
(13:36):
Everyone was convinced you'd kind of make friends for life there and I was a bit
skeptical at that at first, or, yeah, or just like the in community side of it.
I could understand the benefits of, but also I was nervous of what that would be like.
I just had come out of a very difficult house situation in 2017 beforehand, so it.
(13:57):
What will my roommates be like?
Mm. But yeah, I probably, for the most part, and probably throughout my entire college degree, was always mostly fearful or anxious
about that being found out as like being a fake amongst the real people or something like, so just the imposter syndrome of like.
Am I really on the right path here?
Like could it be that I love God enough or have a heart for a certain type of people and for the whole time that was there.
(14:23):
And then it probably took about the four years to work through the fact that we've all a for God and it's gonna express itself differently.
And so you can just love people's strengths and be proud of your own and those kinds.
People, again, their strengths and weaknesses and my own and things like that.
(14:44):
Yep.
Yeah.
So during your time at College, did it work out that the study aspect was the most challenging thing?
Was there something else?
Did your time overlap with Covid slightly as well?
Yeah, it did.
So I suppose you could say study in some ways was the least of my worries.
My first year we were moved outta Carilion.
Second year there was like carilion stuff kind of being finalized.
(15:09):
And fourth year was Covid 2.0.
So yeah, disrupted kind of study patterns and community life, you could say.
I think I also over the time, had to come to terms with living with anxiety.
Kind of knew I had anxiety before I got to College, but hadn't really accepted it yet.
(15:30):
Over those four years where reaching like rock bottom and trying to work out how my brain works and interprets the world and things like that.
And so, yeah.
And normally brought on by fairly considerable stresses outside of that.
So yeah, things like moving or not knowing how we're gonna study or Yeah, in fourth year was a combination of.
(15:55):
In two weeks and my nan was dying and something was happening anyway, was full on.
Again, living through it, not great on the other side of it.
Really thankful for what God was doing in that time.
Really great to be able to be learning about while you cope with anxiety in some ways and around you.
(16:17):
The study essay.
So helpful just to kind of be reflecting on those aspects of the Christian life or on a certain aspect of God's character or like the work of
Christ, or even just your death, maybe like you're just doing Greek, you kind of marveling at all that God's actually given us in those ways, but.
(16:38):
It was just like the perfect combination of like you're studying, but then I did have this space to actually be working through the
personal stuff as well, to kind of come out the other side with a much more realistic view of the way my mind works and approaches
things, but then having the foundation of, uh, really strong understanding of the Bible to kind of work that through as well.
Was there anything that surprised you about College while you were here?
(17:02):
Probably a lot.
Part of the quick decision making was that I did no research into more at all when I first got there.
This is gonna sound so silly.
I was surprised at the Anglican ness of it, which is just like, it's the Anglican training College.
So I dunno what I expected, but I didn't grow up in an Anglican church.
I knew of it as a denomination and kind of what they believed.
(17:25):
So I think that was surprising to me to learn about the history of the Anglican Church and their place in history.
Like not only as a denomination, but just kind of coming outta the English reformation and things like that.
And then just getting used to chapels and prayer book services and things like that, which was really great.
Uh, I really enjoyed them and felt enriched by them, so that was a nice surprise.
(17:48):
I think the community again.
People or maybe like the extracurriculars of being at College, like it's really different to your university experience
and even more so now you can kind of tap in and out uni, watch things online, you go to yours and things like that.
(18:09):
But the community adds a richness that also adds trickiness, I suppose.
You've got lots of different desires and expectations, not your but, and.
I.
(18:35):
Two minutes call.
Way it its way into my heart a little bit.
What were some of the big things God was teaching you during your College time?
Because you already talked a little bit about how you were learning about God and learning about yourself and how the two have fed into each other.
(19:00):
Do you wanna add to that at all?
I think I, that you can never learn enough about God.
A bottomless ocean or something like that.
Like it just keeps going.
I think came away with a deeper appreciation of, I talk about this to you in in orientation week, but like you've
(19:20):
got biblical studies and then Christian thought and then Christian ministry to cover the, that you're doing.
And I think maybe if you'd asked me beforehand what I thought I was gonna be learning at College again, I probably thought up in biblical.
But actually because God is so relational preparing for ministry, it wasn't just about filling up the knowledge
(19:45):
tank and knowing the original language or being able to sound like a commentary when you come outta it, but
that College was really keen to shape our character alongside that and to shape our thinking so that we could.
Up in that.
And so that's being reminded.
God is the God of the, and then he works
(20:06):
through all these different ways.
Yeah.
Now that you've finished up at More, so you're Crossroads Christian Church in Canberra, what do you do there?
And also what is the church like?
So I am a kids in youth pastor at Crossroads.
We really wanna reach Canberra.
We are based in North Canberra.
We wanna see disciples of Jesus in Canberra and beyond, but based in North Canberra, we have four services that meet concurrently on a Sunday.
(20:32):
So two in like the inner north over the four services.
We might have like close to 800 each week.
That's including our kids in youth.
I work with Andy Copeman, who's also in the youth space, and Ru, who's in the kids space.
And so not quite right share, but we have.
Between the three of usm, kind of this connection link between the two.
(20:56):
I think that goal when I first came on was to help give unity to the kids in ministry overall.
But in reality it's a little bit different to that, but it's lot of fun trying to work out how to do that with one another.
So how has your training at Moore helped you in this role?
(21:19):
And recognizing that missing foundation.
Like I knew how to read my Bible and I knew how to read it well, but there was just this of like, how do you piece
together doctrine and how do you know where to go for certain questions that people have and things like that.
And I think the training at MORE really helped me to, I guess, fit all of those pieces that I've already had into a package.
(21:43):
But I think about them for.
I grew in my confidence of knowing the history behind why we think that certain things or the traditions
we follow or thinking about, oh, there's this heresy of modalism, but that's actually not a new thing.
It happened all the way back with the early church fathers.
It helps you kind of piece together how we've been wrestling with God's revealed word the whole time.
(22:06):
And so when it comes to questions that the youth or kids have, or trying to teach something.
Practically, my program writing is much more filled out now.
I'd be like, passage, teach it this way.
But now I actually know how to help piece together a program in a more kind of—it has more and IT unit as opposed to.
(22:28):
I mean, they're not embarrassing because I just haven't been trained yet.
But the ones I wrote beforehand, I'm like, oh, what was I thinking?
They're just missing things.
They're missing that depth and that grounding that I think I only have now because of College and because of the things I learned there.
To be able to hold the bigger picture together while zooming in, I think pastorally in.
(22:54):
Probably College has helped me in that.
Going back to that I know myself better and I know who I'm in God with greater confidence, and so it just
means I'm thinking about myself less maybe when I wanna be thinking about the youth and caring for them.
Just being able to spend that time at College to reflect on who God is and reflect on that in myself, I think has had great benefit.
(23:18):
The first couple years, still a bit dicey after College, but now that I'm three years
out, like much more settled and I think it just helps me be able to train my leaders.
It helps me be able to direct them in discipling the youth or kids underneath them well, and thankful for that.
Wonderful.
Last question, what are the things that you love about serving in Canberra as opposed to the big cities or whatever?
(23:43):
Yeah.
What is it about this kind of ministry?
The reason Canberra specifically is because I knew the team here.
Again, that's that project thing.
I was like, I could see myself serving here, the team I trusted and I knew I could work with them.
But missionally, or I guess that what compelled me to actually come here, one reason I think I keep
(24:05):
thinking about is because Canberra was so pivotal in my own walk with God or my own faith journey that
like I often say, you know how they talk about developmental years with children and things like that.
I often say I had my developmental years here in Canberra, so like I grew up as a Christian here, and it only happened because
of people serving here wanting to see young kids come in for uni leave with a love for Jesus, and serving him their whole lives.
(24:33):
And so I'm really on board with that and I wanna see.
I mean, everywhere you live is a type of bubble, but Canberra has a real public service,
comfortable, because we're called the most comfortable city in the world or something like that.
People's incomes are crazy high.
There's a lot of political correctness in terms of people are thinking about policy and red tape and things like that.
(24:54):
So there is this Canberra bubble we think in a very unique way.
First thing that bubble when I went to Sydney was a real shock too.
Like, yeah, I know.
I know, but actually it's, and so it's hard work in that sense.
Move slower than in other areas, but just again, wanting to see kids and youth not despairing at the state
of the world or being drawn into political correctness or even that desire to follow jobs and career.
(25:21):
You just wanna see them on fire for Jesus.
And so like a goal for youth is to see kids leave school on Jesus and come.
And wanting to serve him from a young age.
Being able to do that with a team that I love and trust is really great.
Yeah, growing up regionally too, it's just like resources.
(25:45):
People who are there to stay, people who wanna invest in your life.
I mean, you need that everywhere, but it's just harder to get in regional areas and so.
College.
I was considering jobs in Queensland or like out in Armadale, or if I knew people out there, I'd probably have gone anywhere.
It's kind of that I don't want kids to miss out on what I missed out on, but I don't think I actually missed out on anything too much.
(26:07):
But you wanna be that person, the people I had.
You wanna be that for them too.
Thank you for listening to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College.
Our vision as a College is to see God glorified by men and women living for
(26:30):
and proclaiming Jesus Christ, growing healthy churches and reaching the lost.
This interview is just one of many from the College's 100 Ministry Stories project.
For more than 160 years, Moore Theological College has been sending men and women into a wide
range of ministries in Sydney, every state of Australia and almost every continent in the world.
(26:53):
The 100 Ministry Stories project helps us to remember and praise God for the work that he has been doing in the world in our times.
Remembering what God has done in our lives helps us respond to our world steadfast hope.
It is our prayer that as you hear how the Lord is at work, you'll be encouraged in your faith and built up in joyful assurance.
Find out more on our website.
(27:15):
That's more moore.edu.au/100, spelled out in numerals.
If you are a graduate and keen to contribute to the 100 Ministry Stories project, we would love to hear from you.
Get in contact with the Communications Team to express your interest or to find out more.
You can find out more and register by going to the Moore College website (27:39):
moore.edu.au.
That's moore.edu.au.
If you have not already done so, we encourage you to subscribe to our podcast
through your favourite podcast platform so that you'll never miss an episode.
For past episodes, further resources, and to make a tax deductible donation to support
(28:01):
the work of the College and its mission, please visit our website at moore.edu.au.
If you found this episode helpful, please share it with a friend and leave a review on your platform of choice.
We always benefit from feedback from our listeners, so if you'd like to get in touch, you can email us at comms@moore.edu.au.
(28:27):
The Moore in the Word Podcast was edited and produced by me, Karen Beilharz, and the Communications Team at Moore Theological College.
The music for our podcast was provided by MarkJuly from PixaBay.
Until next time.
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