February 16, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode, from an interview Karen Beilharz conducted in July 2024 when they were in their final year at Moore College, Caleb and Kirsty Torrance share their story of how they came to know Jesus, how they came to know each other, how they came to do ministry and attend Moore College, and what's in the store for them beyond College.
They reflect on some of the differences between church ministry in the country and church ministry in the city, and remind us that no matter what happens, God is always in control.
Please note: Karen mispronounces Kirsty's name throughout the interview and apologises for stuffing that up
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Welcome to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College in Sydney, Australia, that seeks
to glorify God through biblically sound, thought provoking, and challenging talks and interviews.
In this episode, from an interview I conducted in July 2024 when they were in their final year at Moore
College, Caleb and Kirsty Torrance share their story of how they came to know Jesus, how they came to know
(00:34):
each other, how they came to do ministry and attend Moore College, and what's in store for them beyond College.
They reflect on some of the differences between church ministry in the country and church
ministry in the city, and remind us that no matter what happens, God is always in control.
We hope you find the episode helpful.
Please note.
(00:54):
I mispronounced Kirsty's name throughout the interview.
I apologise for stuffing that up.
Do you want to just talk about where
you were born, where you grew up, who's in your family, if your family's not Christian or
Christian, etc?
(01:15):
I grew up in Moree and I'm from a Christian family.
My parents raised me to be a Christian and to love God and all of my siblings, praise God, are Christians as well.
I grew up in Blacktown in Western Sydney.
My family, uh, My parents and three siblings, I'm the second, and yeah, my
(01:38):
parents and grandparents as well are Christians, and so I was raised to know God.
That's awesome, that's wonderful.
Do you want to talk a little bit about what it was like to grow up in a Christian family?
I did not grow up in a Christian family, so I imagine that's there.
It would have been quite a blessing in many ways.
Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a great blessing.
(01:59):
I think the fact that my parents loved God and were quite active in sharing the gospel with me, were active in getting me involved in the church.
One of the great blessings growing up was there were quite a number of people my age at our church.
And so having close Christian friends, you know, we, we were figuring out our faith together and they're still some of my closest friends.
(02:26):
That's lovely.
I bet you.
I also think it was a blessing though.
I certainly didn't appreciate it probably for most of my growing up time, but I do now.
And yes, I didn't have particularly close Christian friends at all in primary school or high school.
So I certainly knew the truth of the gospel and.
I could see in my parents example of people who loved God and lived for Him.
(02:48):
Certainly looking back, I'm so glad that I was raised in a Christian home, and so the things
that I learnt from my parents, and yeah, for the way that they lived that out as well.
But yes, I certainly spent probably more of my childhood believing in God, but kind of thinking, oh, I don't know.
It was all a bit much probably, and felt a little bit resentful at times.
And wish that there wasn't so much God talk from my dad in particular, which of course, yeah, yeah.
(03:13):
So the
resentfulness was because it was just a bit overwhelming at times or?
Yeah, I think I just, a big part of my testimony actually is to do with how my dad used to just bring
God into every conversation, which, you know, now I think that's amazing and I'm so glad he did.
And of course he should.
But yes, at the time, I thought, oh, why does he have to bring everything back to God?
(03:34):
You know, I'd be complaining about something that happened at school, and I was at boarding school from
year 7 to 12, you know, or I'd be stressed about something and he'd say, you know, we're all in God's hands.
You don't need to worry.
We're all in God's hands.
God's in control.
And I'd kind of roll my eyes and think, Oh, it's just not what I want to hear right now.
So that kind of thing, even though I knew that was true and I still, I believed that God was in control.
(03:55):
I just didn't really want to hear that all the time.
Yep.
Sure.
So Caleb, you grew up in the city.
Chrissy, you grew up in the country.
Do you have any reflections on that as I imagine as well, that's very different church experiences?
I
don't know if there's really that much difference between when you're actually in church.
I think maybe one of the bigger differences is just having spent some time at country churches is actually, you're a
(04:20):
lot more likely to run into people through the week, just doing your day to day stuff than you are at a city church.
I think at a city church, you sort of have to go out of your way to interact with the people from the church throughout the week.
Whereas when Moree, a number of people from church were clients that I worked with.
(04:41):
You'd go to Coles and you'd see three or four people.
I suppose that community feel of the country is a lot more obvious and seen in the face than being in the city church, yeah.
I mean it totally depends on which church in the city.
Because, obviously, there's a lot of variety in the city as well.
But the thing I love about country churches, I guess, is, I mean, they're often smaller.
(05:02):
And just the way that people serve, because there's just often more need.
It's not always the best musicians who are up the front, but they're the ones who can play an instrument.
So there they are, and faithfully each week playing, because they love Jesus and they want to serve the church.
Which I think, you know, in big churches in the city, it's just quite a different vibe.
Often, and which is not a bad thing.
The music's amazing at a lot of these churches, but when I go back to Moree or to smaller country churches and I listen
(05:27):
to the band and you know, there'll be mistakes here and there and little grins from the musicians and I just love it.
Like that's part of its charm, I guess.
Yeah, not about perfection, but about serving the Lord.
Wonderful.
Okay.
So you both grew up in Christian homes and yeah, I assume your parents taught you gospel as well, but were there other people and was there a
(05:48):
point in your journey where you actually made that conscious decision of, I'm going to follow Jesus, it's my faith, not just my family's faith?
Yeah, there were other people.
I think my friends who I mentioned earlier, I think growing up with quite a tight knit group of guys that were in church together and keen to.
figure out our faith together.
I think that was quite influential in my Christian journey.
(06:12):
Probably another person would be my grandmother.
She led quite a few Bible studies and things for our age group and our group of guys.
And, and I think also just seeing her example and how she lived her life, she was quite influential in my faith journey.
And I think.
I think I would say sort of about the age of seven is when I said I wanted to become a Christian.
(06:37):
How much can a seven year old understand?
But I knew that God loved me and that Jesus died on the cross, and I knew I didn't want to go to hell as well.
And so that was the time when I said to my parents, you know, I want to be a Christian.
And my dad sat me down and talked with me about what it means to be a Christian
and Wonderful.
Also, I think it's really interesting as well that your dad sat you down and
(06:58):
talked
with you.
It's, I think, sometimes, as Christian parents, we don't think it's necessary to do that.
What about you, Christy?
I don't feel like I really had other people as particular role models, exactly,
or, yeah, as I said, I didn't have any close Christian friends growing up.
So, it really was mostly my family, but, you know, that includes my siblings, and I very much looked up to them, all three of them.
(07:20):
So, my journey, as I was kind of mentioning before, I was kind of a bit resentful and a bit, you know, I just didn't.
Want God to really be part of my life, even though I believed in God.
But when I was in year 11, so I was at Neg's boarding school in Armidale from year seven to 12
in year 11, I think I used to try to alternate calling my mom and dad while I was away at school.
But this first term of year 11, I just kind of thought, Oh, I just can't be bothered to talk to dad because he doesn't give me the responses that.
(07:47):
I want to hear, I just want to be able to talk about what's happened, the little complaints I had or just what was going on at school.
And mum was just much easier to talk to and better at kind of listening to me and You know, being
sympathetic and still giving me godly advice without feeling like that's all I was being given, I guess.
So I spent most of that term just calling mom.
(08:07):
I didn't talk to dad at all for a number of weeks, which was unusual.
Then one night I got home from maybe dinner at school and I had a missed call on my phone from dad.
And I thought to myself, Oh, dad called.
But I really just feel like talking to mum, will I just call mum instead?
But I thought, no, I'll call dad back.
Anyway, we actually had a really lovely conversation.
(08:29):
He listened to everything that was going on, I was talking about my different assignments I
had and different things and he said, I just called to say I love you and I'm proud of you.
Anyway, it was just a really lovely conversation.
The next morning I got a phone call to say that he died of a heart attack.
Which was obviously a huge shock, but the first thing I thought was, wow, thank you, God, for that conversation that you gave me
(08:51):
with my dad, because, you know, without that, I would have felt guilty for having not spoken to him for weeks, and I would have,
yeah, it just would have been a totally different experience, so of course I was grieving the loss of my dad, but I just thought,
wow, God gave that to me as a gift, and He really is alive and active and working, you know, he really cares about each of us.
(09:12):
I couldn't see that as just a fluke phone call.
And so from that point on, I guess I started to actually want more of a relationship with God and it's been
a long journey since that point as well, but that was a big turning point in my faith where I realized how.
God's really at work in the here and now as well as sending Jesus to die for me.
Wow.
I can see
how that would have affected you.
(09:32):
How did you guys meet?
We kind of hopped around all the same towns in our lives, but in different orders.
So I grew up in Moree and I went to school in Armidale and then I went to uni in Sydney.
Caleb started in Sydney, went to Armidale for uni and then moved to Moree for work.
And after I'd been working in Sydney for a couple of years, I wasn't sure what to do next.
(09:54):
So I moved back to Moree.
Temporarily.
And he was there, and had been for about a year, Caleb, is that right?
Yeah, I think so.
Maybe six months, yeah.
And so he was going to the church that I grew up in, and that's where I went back to
church when I went there, and we met one night at church, and the rest is history.
That
is lovely.
I love as well that you're at the same places, but at different times.
(10:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's talk about your journey to ministry.
What kind of ministry were you guys doing?
What made you want to consider doing ministry vocationally?
I think one of the things that the church I grew up in did well was that they encouraged us to be part of ministry sort of from a young age.
So from quite young, I was involved with the creche and Sunday schooling some of the younger kids.
(10:44):
As I got older, led at the youth group and then moved away to Armidale where I did uni and there I was able
to get involved with the AFES group at UNE there and did a bit of Sunday school teaching as well on a Sunday.
One of the highlights of ministry for me was actually doing.
(11:05):
Christian camps.
Growing up again, my family were quite involved in Christian camps.
And so that was something that we were able to get involved with.
And that was one of the highlights of my year were the different camps that we would do.
And then when I moved to Moree, I got involved with a parachurch ministry that was involved.
(11:26):
With ministry to mostly Indigenous kids, so we'd do a Sunday school, we'd go and drive a bus around
and pick a bunch of kids up, have lunch together and then do some songs and a Bible talk each week.
They're the main ministries.
Oh, and Kirsty and I did youth group together at the Anglican church in town as well.
I got a lot more involved in ministry once I had moved back to Moree after living in Sydney.
(11:48):
Partly just because, as I was saying, I guess it's a smaller church and there's just a lot more spots that need filling.
I had been at Barney's Broadway while I was at uni in Sydney and working for a couple of years and I was helping out in Sunday school.
So moving back to Moree, I was part of the music team at church.
Which was very small, and I was one of those people making mistakes here and everywhere.
(12:10):
But, um, I, um, play guitar and sing, so that's what I mostly did.
And most weeks I think, oh, why am I doing this?
But, yeah, there aren't that many people to do it, so I was happy to.
And then, yeah, I got involved with the youth group, where I got to know Caleb a bit better as well.
That was before we were dating.
And then, yeah, it was through knowing Caleb that I got involved with the Indigenous Ministry.
(12:34):
That we were doing and I was helping out with tutoring for a lot of those same kids that were coming to Sunday school and a few different ones.
So I'd do that a couple of afternoons a week.
My hours were flexible with where I was working.
So I do a bit of tutoring and then I started helping with that Indigenous Sunday school as well and going along to some of the other.
So that was cool to get involved with that.
So
(12:55):
what kind of work were you doing at the time, like just in your day job?
I was working at the local radio station as the copywriter, so writing the scripts for the ads and producing the ads was close to my dream job.
It was pretty fun.
What's your dream job?
I've always wanted to be a jingle writer.
So yeah.
Wow.
So I got to most, I got to write the ads.
I just wasn't doing the music.
(13:15):
That's so cool.
Taylor,
what were you doing at Morrie?
I was working as an agronomist, which is like a advisor for farmers, so in agriculture.
So then when did the shift come and what made you both think about doing ministry long term?
Was that before or after you guys got married?
It was after we got married.
I personally had always wanted to be involved in ministry in some form.
(13:40):
And I think I just always thought that I would be working and doing ministry alongside whatever secular job I had.
And I think working full time realized that it was taking up a lot of my time and that I wanted to be doing more ministry than what I was able to do.
And so we'd been praying for quite a while about what to do and what might be next.
(14:05):
And had sort of considered perhaps taking another job that would free up my time a bit more so I could spend more time doing ministry.
And so, yeah, we'd been praying about that for a few months and then one night got a call from
one of the ministers in a town nearby and he asked if we'd consider doing MTS at his church.
(14:28):
And we said, no, probably not, but we'll pray about it and consider it.
And so we did, we prayed about it.
And then a few days later at church, the bishop at the time was there to preach.
And he said to me, Oh, have you thought about going into vocational ministry?
Like it'd be something worth thinking about.
(14:49):
So we thought two conversations about the same thing in one week is.
You know, maybe not so much of a coincidence.
So we kept praying about it and talked to a few people that we trusted and people were quite positive about us heading into ministry.
So we thought we'd jump in.
We'd been married for about a year, I guess, at that stage.
(15:09):
And in that year, I just felt so comfortable in Moree.
You know, I had my family there, most of my family.
I have one sister who's a missionary in Italy, but the rest of them were in Moree.
We had bought a house, which was lovely, and we were really enjoying living there
and just enjoying being married and just all the things that we were involved in.
(15:30):
So I was just so settled, and I had been praying, I can't even remember what my exact
prayer was, but I was praying that God would help me not to just get comfortable.
Like I didn't want to just live a comfortable life because I know that's not what God calls us to do, is to just be comfortable in life.
So I don't know what I was hoping, I didn't know how God was going to answer that prayer, but I very much felt when Caleb told me about his
(15:52):
phone call with Dave Fisher from Manila, and then the conversation a few days later, I thought, wow, okay, this is God answering Caleb's prayer.
And very much my prayer because it was a huge shock, really, and I felt like my life was kind of
just upended in the space of a few weeks to think, okay, we're no longer going to live in Moree.
In fact, we're in a few weeks, we're going to move to Sydney and live in some random
(16:16):
part of Sydney that I didn't want to live in called Parramatta, which I now love.
But I was very, very upset to be honest.
I was so sure that God.
Actually, was answering our prayers, so there was no way that we could ignore it.
I've never really felt that way, I think, before about something, but yes, very sure that that was where God was sending
us, so that gave me comfort, even though I was feeling very unsettled and scared, I guess, by what life might look like.
(16:41):
Yeah, it's funny,
isn't it, the way that God answers prayers sometimes, even though you were
praying for this and expecting this answer, it's still very upsetting, isn't it?
Yes.
Why?
I don't know.
What made you think?
Okay, this is the right way to go.
Go straight to college.
You know, most people would do the traditional MTS kind
of route.
When Rick Lewis, the bishop, suggested going off to Bible college, I said, Oh, I spoke
(17:06):
to Dave earlier in the week and he, you know, asked if I'd be interested in doing MTS.
And Rick said, nah, don't worry about it.
Just go straight to college.
So that was probably honestly a big reason of why.
So that's like a very, very quick turnaround, as he said, like, All of a sudden, you're uprooting your whole life and you're going to college.
What were your expectations about college before you came?
(17:27):
I don't know.
But my initial response was, well, I'm not going to study.
And then I talked to my sister, Jessica, who's the missionary in Italy.
And she was like, Oh, I mean, you don't have to, but also it'll be great.
You might as well.
I was like, Oh, okay.
I guess I will.
And that was great.
It was a strange first year of college.
So I just did the one year, the advanced diploma.
(17:49):
And the second half of the year was when lockdown happened.
So actually we ended up, we had gone to Moree to visit my family in whatever holiday that was in whatever month that was.
And on the news, you know, it was all really ramping up and we were thinking, Oh, what's going to happen?
Should we stay here or should we go back to Sydney and then risk being locked down there?
(18:12):
Cause it was a bit different in the country at that stage.
So, they weren't about to head into lockdown.
Anyway, so we decided to stay in Moree a bit longer and then that weekend, oh, we were
going to go back because Caleb was on the roster for something at church that weekend.
So, we were like, well, we better go back.
Anyway, we decided to stay in Moree and then that weekend they announced the lockdown happening in Sydney.
So, then we were in Moree then for the next four or five months and that's when I was pregnant with our first child, Lucy.
(18:37):
So, I spent most of it there doing Zoom classes.
Which was just delightful, and we'd just sit there.
A bit of a different experience to most other people at college who are stuck in small apartments and lockdown.
So, I mean, I was sympathetic, but also I was very happy to be in Moree, living with my mum.
It was fun.
A few months.
Yes.
(18:57):
You can tell I had a bit of a negative attitude going in.
I was also very negative in thinking about community living and especially I had no idea
about Parramatta or what was this Moore West business and what was that going to be like.
I'd had enough of community living with boarding school and living at a residential college while I was at uni too.
I thought this is going to be terrible.
Anyway, here we are in fourth year and I have loved Moore West.
(19:20):
And I'll be very sad to leave, so there you go.
God changed my attitude and my heart, which is cool to see.
Yeah.
What about you,
Caleb?
What did you think college would be like going in?
I
don't know what I thought college would be like.
I think I knew that it would be quite difficult and quite academic, and I think it has been.
(19:41):
It's academic.
You already go, Oh, academic.
I wouldn't say I'm a particularly academic type person.
So I find it challenging, but I think that's part of studying.
And I think if it wasn't academic, you wouldn't be getting as much out of it as you should be.
Maybe one of the things I didn't expect was how friendly the faculty are just the fact that
(20:05):
people actually Chat with the faculty and our friends with the faculty and as students.
I think I maybe expected more of a divide
Maybe it's an obvious question, but what made you choose Moor College in the first place?
Well, one thing, we were at an Anglican church in the Armidale Diocese and I think Moor
College is where the majority of the ministers in the Armidale Diocese are trained.
(20:29):
We knew we wanted to go to Sydney and I think We probably, I mean, honestly, I think Moore College is probably the only college ever on our radar.
If we weren't to go to Moore, we probably would have ended up at SMBC.
I had a friend who checked out a whole bunch of different Bible colleges a few years back and he decided Moore College was the best.
So probably between those two things, it wasn't really ever a question for us.
(20:53):
So we talked a little bit about living in the Midwest, doing college during COVID and worrying.
Really interesting.
How was that for you, Caleb?
It was your first year.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden like you're doing college, but you're doing it remotely.
Yeah.
It worked out well for our year group that lockdown was in the second half of the year.
(21:14):
So we'd had six months in person to get to know each other and get a feel for the year group and bond a bit.
So I think going online after that wasn't too hard because we did already know people a bit.
Whereas I think the year before us did the first six months online.
And I think they struggled a lot, which I can imagine trying to get to know people on Microsoft teams doesn't really work very well.
(21:41):
I didn't like college online.
I struggled with it.
I think.
Just lots of sitting in the same place, and I had a terrible computer at the time.
It struggled to do more than one thing at a time, so that really frustrated me.
I found it challenging, but it was, honestly, it was nice to be in Moray and not stuck in a tiny apartment in Sydney, so that was one bonus.
(22:04):
Yeah, sure.
I assume things were different in Moray as well, like, you didn't have the sort of restrictions that we had in Sydney, did you?
At different points in time, it was different.
But yeah, for the most part, we had a lot more freedom.
Yeah.
There were times when Sydney was locked down when we weren't locked down, but also just the fact that we were in a
house with a backyard, so even when we were locked down, there's still a lot more freedom than being in an apartment.
(22:30):
Yeah, it's probably a rare answer, but God is very good to us in that we were just in the best place to be during COVID.
And the fact that I was pregnant and didn't have to commute from Parramatta to Newtown for class actually was amazing.
What things did you find
challenging about college?
What things surprised you?
And what were some of the big things God has been teaching you during your time at college?
(22:52):
Hmm.
I didn't enjoy classes.
On Zoom, I don't think anybody particularly did.
I found it very awkward and stressful and particularly one subject where it was a lot of
team based learning was just so tricky over Zoom and I struggled with that subject anyway.
I just found it really, really hard and my brain struggled with it.
(23:13):
So that on Zoom was a whole nother level of hard and I think everybody found it on Zoom more challenging.
I think in person it would have been very different.
And that was quite a big struggle for me each week.
Going into something like Moore College, I thought everyone would be really smart, but in an intimidating,
unhelpful kind of way, or like really godly, if you know what I mean, and that I would just feel like
(23:36):
everyone was a bit fake and they would look down on me because I was this negative, cynical person coming in.
I mean, I've mostly gotten to know the people at Moore West, as well as other people in
our year group, but in the last few years after having kids, I've mostly hung out here.
Everyone is very down to earth and lovely and not arrogant, like I maybe expected them to be.
(23:57):
And even our Moore West Bible study here is just such a delight.
I think I thought that would be an intimidating place to be because I've always felt like You know, I should have
more Bible knowledge than I do, having grown up in a Christian family and always going to Sunday school, so I
thought, oh no, I don't want to go, and everyone will think, oh, why does she not know every detail of the Bible?
But it's just such a lovely Bible study, and there are very intelligent, godly women in it, but not in a negative and unhelpful way.
(24:24):
It's just a very Lovely Bible study to be part of, a lovely community to be part of
where everyone feels happy to share and not judging other people's lack of knowledge.
So that's been a really lovely surprise and I'll really miss being part of this Bible study.
And what's something that God's been teaching you through these past four years while you've been at college?
Just to trust in his plans for us and trust that he is good and he knows what lies ahead for us.
(24:49):
So I guess.
The whole way along I haven't really been worried about where we're going to end up.
I think I'm slowly learning to trust him more and to not make solid plans for us and for our family because
I just think at any point they could change and God might send us elsewhere and I feel okay with that.
In the past, I wanted to know exactly what lay ahead for me, and I find that kind of exciting now, rather than being a stressful thing,
(25:13):
thinking, oh, I wonder where God's going to send us next and what we're going to do, and I don't know, and I feel inadequate most of the time,
but knowing that actually God can and does use inadequate people, and we need him to do it, so I feel like I'm very slowly learning that.
That's really cool.
Like, good lessons.
So, Caleb.
How about you?
(25:33):
What things did you find challenging about college
over the four
years?
Well, yeah, a couple of things.
Having a science, like an agricultural science background.
Just the style of learning is very different, like going to history, philosophy, it's a very different type of reading and writing and thinking.
(25:56):
So I think that was one thing that I found challenging.
And probably one of the other big things was my previous job was outdoors a lot, so actually just
Having to learn to sit still behind a desk for long periods of time, that was another challenging thing.
Was there anything that surprised you during your time at college?
(26:16):
You come to college thinking that you have a reasonable grasp on the Bible and good understanding of the Christian faith.
College raises a whole bunch of questions you didn't know you had, and just seeing who God is and
what he's done, and just the fact that you can study it for four years and honestly come out with it.
It's more questions than when you started.
(26:37):
I'm glad that that's a good thing for you, not a frustrating thing.
So what were some of the big things that God was teaching you over these four years?
Probably a similar answer is just gaining an understanding of, like a realization
of that God is so much bigger and wonderful than I could ever imagine.
And I think these questions that are being raised.
(27:00):
Actually, well, I mean, some of the questions will never know the answer to this side of heaven, but
for a lot of questions realizing, well, actually God has given me the skills and the resources to be
able to figure out the answers to some of these questions and to help other people do that as well.
I think perhaps one of the other.
(27:22):
Things God has been teaching me is probably humility, just, again, understanding who I am in relationship to him.
But also, just the fact that you sort of head to college thinking that you've got a grasp on things, and then
you see all these people who are sort of light years ahead of you, and yeah, so it's It's humbling just to see
(27:45):
how small I am in relation to God, but also to know that He chooses to use us and can use me into the future.
And yeah, God willing, He will use us for His glory and for the rest of our lives.
Yeah.
Yes.
Let's talk then about.
the plan for after college.
(28:05):
You said that you guys are going to WeWa?
Yeah, so it's WeWa.
Oh, WeWa, sorry.
It looks like WeWa.
It
does look like WeWa.
And what made you decide to go back to the country?
Well, we came to college Expecting that we would be heading back to the Armidale Diocese.
Honestly, I think a lot of it is just the lifestyle of the country.
(28:28):
We like living in the country.
We like small towns.
Weewar will definitely be the smallest town either of us have ever lived in, so that will take a bit of getting used to, I think.
How big is it?
The town itself is about 1, 500 people.
The district is about 2, 000.
(28:48):
It's probably a quarter of the size of Moree.
Are you just going back to do church ministry?
Are you doing it with someone in particular, church, other staff?
We're with the Armidale Diocese, so we'll be in the Anglican Church in town.
My role is I'll be a curate in charge, so a trainee minister, but there's no other minister in the town.
(29:12):
So the minister from Narrabri will be my boss, my trainer.
Narrow rise about half an hour from where you are.
And how do you feel about,
because
you've been living in community, and like, even in Moree, you had family, friends, church around you.
Now you're going to a very small town where, in a sense, there's
you
(29:32):
and your church.
Yeah, I think it is a bit daunting.
Thankfully, it's about an hour and a half from Moree, which is where Kirsty's family is, so it's not too far from family.
Yeah, I think the responsibility of Leading a church straight off the bat is daunting.
I had always expected to go into an assistant minister role before heading to a small town, but.
(29:59):
Again, it's I think it's just something that even though it's scary and it feels like I'm gonna be out of my depth
I just need to trust God and I suppose do the best that I can, but yeah, trust that God has it under control.
What about you, Kirsty?
How are you
feeling about the move?
I am very excited, actually.
There are definitely things I'll miss, which are things I mentioned before, I'll really miss just being able to walk into
(30:22):
the more West backyard and know that there will either be friends there or someone will see that I'm there and then they'll
Come down and join me shortly after, not having to organise play dates for the kids or organise friends to come over.
I have just loved that about living at Moore West.
It's been so much fun.
I'll just have to be more proactive in inviting people over, but yes, really
(30:43):
looking forward to being in a small town where church is there, the shops are there.
We'll run into the same people.
We can actually invite people over after church and they won't have to travel an hour to get to our house.
Just very excited for the easiness of small town living.
Yeah, I do think I will feel more isolated than I ever have.
(31:04):
I mean, being at boarding school, I was away from most of my family.
It was isolating in some ways, but yes, definitely still had many people around me,
but I feel like my family is close enough and I will quickly get to know people.
In the town, so just really looking forward to building relationships there.
It is a bit daunting, also being the minister's wife, and I guess the expectations that people might have of me,
(31:31):
but again, trying to trust God, like Caleb was saying, trusting that he can use me, even when I don't feel up to it.
And yeah, looking forward to our kids, Lucy and Sally, making some little friends there.
Awesome.
So, are there other challenges, opportunities that you're looking forward to in moving to the region?
Well, one of the big opportunities of, Ministry in small towns is that I think firstly,
(31:58):
people tend to still have some affinity to the church and some respect for the local minister.
I think people are perhaps a bit more open than they might be in the city.
And that might come with challenges as well, that people sort of have a loose
affiliation with the church, but I think that's good enough for them to be a Christian.
(32:22):
So I think the opportunities are that, you know, everyone in town and there's, I think often straight away a level of respect for the local minister.
So I think that provides a lot of opportunities.
And again, probably just echoing what Kirsty said about actually being.
Living close to where we do church and being part of the community.
(32:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, how has your time at Moore equipped you for this next chapter of your life?
I think in one sense, you can probably never be fully equipped to start out into full time ministry, but, no, I think it's given me the
confidence, firstly, to think through the first principles and what is it that we as a church want to do and what direction do we want to be
(33:09):
heading in and To think through those things that are more basic level rather than just trying to sort of keep on and keep the church alive.
So I think college has equipped me to think through.
Those sorts of things, I think it's equipped me to be a much better Bible teacher than I would have been otherwise.
And to have the confidence to answer people's questions and to point them to Jesus.
(33:36):
I think that's probably the main ways I feel more equipped.
Yeah,
I
was just thinking I've had lots of great opportunities both in studying in first year, which feels very distant though.
I like, I think I remember something from my studies, but even just the more women talks, I haven't
been able to get to that many of them because they're in new town and that's a long way from here.
(33:58):
But even just the other night going into new town for a one to one Bible reading training and just constantly throughout college, I guess.
It's being reminded of the importance of God's word and the power of God's word.
It shouldn't be, but it's easy to forget that.
So just being encouraged over these last four years of those truths.
And so going into ministry with that in mind, God's word is the most important thing.
(34:22):
So I feel excited to be actually going into ministry and having opportunities to share God's word with people.
Encourage the faithful Christians there in their walk with God as well, being surrounded by
other Christians here for four years, as well as having access to great seminars and talks.
Awesome.
Wonderful.
Okay.
Final question.
(34:42):
What advice would you give to someone who's thinking about doing full time ministry and maybe even studying at more college?
I don't know.
Just go for it.
Nice.
Live it more West.
West is best.
Definitely consider it, even if you never thought you would have to consider it.
Trust that God may have other plans for your life than you have had for yourself and be willing to trust him with those.
(35:08):
My first piece of advice would probably be to seek wise advice from people that know
you and ask them if they think this is a good idea and something you should consider.
Yeah, I think it's not as scary as it might seem and the community is great.
The classes are challenging, but stretching in a really good way.
So yeah.
(35:36):
Thank you for listening to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College.
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(35:57):
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(36:43):
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Until next time.
Welcome to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College in Sydney, Australia, that seeks
to glorify God through biblically sound, thought provoking, and challenging talks and interviews.
In this episode, from an interview I conducted in July 2024 when they were in their final year at Moore
College, Caleb and Kirsty Torrance share their story of how they came to know Jesus, how they came to know
(00:34):
each other, how they came to do ministry and attend Moore College, and what's in store for them beyond College.
They reflect on some of the differences between church ministry in the country and church
ministry in the city, and remind us that no matter what happens, God is always in control.
We hope you find the episode helpful.
Please note.
(00:54):
I mispronounced Kirsty's name throughout the interview.
I apologise for stuffing that up.
Do you want to just talk about where
you were born, where you grew up, who's in your family, if your family's not Christian or
Christian, etc?
(01:15):
I grew up in Moree and I'm from a Christian family.
My parents raised me to be a Christian and to love God and all of my siblings, praise God, are Christians as well.
I grew up in Blacktown in Western Sydney.
My family, uh, My parents and three siblings, I'm the second, and yeah, my
(01:38):
parents and grandparents as well are Christians, and so I was raised to know God.
That's awesome, that's wonderful.
Do you want to talk a little bit about what it was like to grow up in a Christian family?
I did not grow up in a Christian family, so I imagine that's there.
It would have been quite a blessing in many ways.
Yeah, yeah, it was, it was a great blessing.
(01:59):
I think the fact that my parents loved God and were quite active in sharing the gospel with me, were active in getting me involved in the church.
One of the great blessings growing up was there were quite a number of people my age at our church.
And so having close Christian friends, you know, we, we were figuring out our faith together and they're still some of my closest friends.
(02:26):
That's lovely.
I bet you.
I also think it was a blessing though.
I certainly didn't appreciate it probably for most of my growing up time, but I do now.
And yes, I didn't have particularly close Christian friends at all in primary school or high school.
So I certainly knew the truth of the gospel and.
I could see in my parents example of people who loved God and lived for Him.
(02:48):
Certainly looking back, I'm so glad that I was raised in a Christian home, and so the things
that I learnt from my parents, and yeah, for the way that they lived that out as well.
But yes, I certainly spent probably more of my childhood believing in God, but kind of thinking, oh, I don't know.
It was all a bit much probably, and felt a little bit resentful at times.
And wish that there wasn't so much God talk from my dad in particular, which of course, yeah, yeah.
(03:13):
So the
resentfulness was because it was just a bit overwhelming at times or?
Yeah, I think I just, a big part of my testimony actually is to do with how my dad used to just bring
God into every conversation, which, you know, now I think that's amazing and I'm so glad he did.
And of course he should.
But yes, at the time, I thought, oh, why does he have to bring everything back to God?
(03:34):
You know, I'd be complaining about something that happened at school, and I was at boarding school from
year 7 to 12, you know, or I'd be stressed about something and he'd say, you know, we're all in God's hands.
You don't need to worry.
We're all in God's hands.
God's in control.
And I'd kind of roll my eyes and think, Oh, it's just not what I want to hear right now.
So that kind of thing, even though I knew that was true and I still, I believed that God was in control.
(03:55):
I just didn't really want to hear that all the time.
Yep.
Sure.
So Caleb, you grew up in the city.
Chrissy, you grew up in the country.
Do you have any reflections on that as I imagine as well, that's very different church experiences?
I
don't know if there's really that much difference between when you're actually in church.
I think maybe one of the bigger differences is just having spent some time at country churches is actually, you're a
(04:20):
lot more likely to run into people through the week, just doing your day to day stuff than you are at a city church.
I think at a city church, you sort of have to go out of your way to interact with the people from the church throughout the week.
Whereas when Moree, a number of people from church were clients that I worked with.
(04:41):
You'd go to Coles and you'd see three or four people.
I suppose that community feel of the country is a lot more obvious and seen in the face than being in the city church, yeah.
I mean it totally depends on which church in the city.
Because, obviously, there's a lot of variety in the city as well.
But the thing I love about country churches, I guess, is, I mean, they're often smaller.
(05:02):
And just the way that people serve, because there's just often more need.
It's not always the best musicians who are up the front, but they're the ones who can play an instrument.
So there they are, and faithfully each week playing, because they love Jesus and they want to serve the church.
Which I think, you know, in big churches in the city, it's just quite a different vibe.
Often, and which is not a bad thing.
The music's amazing at a lot of these churches, but when I go back to Moree or to smaller country churches and I listen
(05:27):
to the band and you know, there'll be mistakes here and there and little grins from the musicians and I just love it.
Like that's part of its charm, I guess.
Yeah, not about perfection, but about serving the Lord.
Wonderful.
Okay.
So you both grew up in Christian homes and yeah, I assume your parents taught you gospel as well, but were there other people and was there a
(05:48):
point in your journey where you actually made that conscious decision of, I'm going to follow Jesus, it's my faith, not just my family's faith?
Yeah, there were other people.
I think my friends who I mentioned earlier, I think growing up with quite a tight knit group of guys that were in church together and keen to.
figure out our faith together.
I think that was quite influential in my Christian journey.
(06:12):
Probably another person would be my grandmother.
She led quite a few Bible studies and things for our age group and our group of guys.
And, and I think also just seeing her example and how she lived her life, she was quite influential in my faith journey.
And I think.
I think I would say sort of about the age of seven is when I said I wanted to become a Christian.
(06:37):
How much can a seven year old understand?
But I knew that God loved me and that Jesus died on the cross, and I knew I didn't want to go to hell as well.
And so that was the time when I said to my parents, you know, I want to be a Christian.
And my dad sat me down and talked with me about what it means to be a Christian
and Wonderful.
Also, I think it's really interesting as well that your dad sat you down and
(06:58):
talked
with you.
It's, I think, sometimes, as Christian parents, we don't think it's necessary to do that.
What about you, Christy?
I don't feel like I really had other people as particular role models, exactly,
or, yeah, as I said, I didn't have any close Christian friends growing up.
So, it really was mostly my family, but, you know, that includes my siblings, and I very much looked up to them, all three of them.
(07:20):
So, my journey, as I was kind of mentioning before, I was kind of a bit resentful and a bit, you know, I just didn't.
Want God to really be part of my life, even though I believed in God.
But when I was in year 11, so I was at Neg's boarding school in Armidale from year seven to 12
in year 11, I think I used to try to alternate calling my mom and dad while I was away at school.
But this first term of year 11, I just kind of thought, Oh, I just can't be bothered to talk to dad because he doesn't give me the responses that.
(07:47):
I want to hear, I just want to be able to talk about what's happened, the little complaints I had or just what was going on at school.
And mum was just much easier to talk to and better at kind of listening to me and You know, being
sympathetic and still giving me godly advice without feeling like that's all I was being given, I guess.
So I spent most of that term just calling mom.
(08:07):
I didn't talk to dad at all for a number of weeks, which was unusual.
Then one night I got home from maybe dinner at school and I had a missed call on my phone from dad.
And I thought to myself, Oh, dad called.
But I really just feel like talking to mum, will I just call mum instead?
But I thought, no, I'll call dad back.
Anyway, we actually had a really lovely conversation.
(08:29):
He listened to everything that was going on, I was talking about my different assignments I
had and different things and he said, I just called to say I love you and I'm proud of you.
Anyway, it was just a really lovely conversation.
The next morning I got a phone call to say that he died of a heart attack.
Which was obviously a huge shock, but the first thing I thought was, wow, thank you, God, for that conversation that you gave me
(08:51):
with my dad, because, you know, without that, I would have felt guilty for having not spoken to him for weeks, and I would have,
yeah, it just would have been a totally different experience, so of course I was grieving the loss of my dad, but I just thought,
wow, God gave that to me as a gift, and He really is alive and active and working, you know, he really cares about each of us.
(09:12):
I couldn't see that as just a fluke phone call.
And so from that point on, I guess I started to actually want more of a relationship with God and it's been
a long journey since that point as well, but that was a big turning point in my faith where I realized how.
God's really at work in the here and now as well as sending Jesus to die for me.
Wow.
I can see
how that would have affected you.
(09:32):
How did you guys meet?
We kind of hopped around all the same towns in our lives, but in different orders.
So I grew up in Moree and I went to school in Armidale and then I went to uni in Sydney.
Caleb started in Sydney, went to Armidale for uni and then moved to Moree for work.
And after I'd been working in Sydney for a couple of years, I wasn't sure what to do next.
(09:54):
So I moved back to Moree.
Temporarily.
And he was there, and had been for about a year, Caleb, is that right?
Yeah, I think so.
Maybe six months, yeah.
And so he was going to the church that I grew up in, and that's where I went back to
church when I went there, and we met one night at church, and the rest is history.
That
is lovely.
I love as well that you're at the same places, but at different times.
(10:17):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Let's talk about your journey to ministry.
What kind of ministry were you guys doing?
What made you want to consider doing ministry vocationally?
I think one of the things that the church I grew up in did well was that they encouraged us to be part of ministry sort of from a young age.
So from quite young, I was involved with the creche and Sunday schooling some of the younger kids.
(10:44):
As I got older, led at the youth group and then moved away to Armidale where I did uni and there I was able
to get involved with the AFES group at UNE there and did a bit of Sunday school teaching as well on a Sunday.
One of the highlights of ministry for me was actually doing.
(11:05):
Christian camps.
Growing up again, my family were quite involved in Christian camps.
And so that was something that we were able to get involved with.
And that was one of the highlights of my year were the different camps that we would do.
And then when I moved to Moree, I got involved with a parachurch ministry that was involved.
(11:26):
With ministry to mostly Indigenous kids, so we'd do a Sunday school, we'd go and drive a bus around
and pick a bunch of kids up, have lunch together and then do some songs and a Bible talk each week.
They're the main ministries.
Oh, and Kirsty and I did youth group together at the Anglican church in town as well.
I got a lot more involved in ministry once I had moved back to Moree after living in Sydney.
(11:48):
Partly just because, as I was saying, I guess it's a smaller church and there's just a lot more spots that need filling.
I had been at Barney's Broadway while I was at uni in Sydney and working for a couple of years and I was helping out in Sunday school.
So moving back to Moree, I was part of the music team at church.
Which was very small, and I was one of those people making mistakes here and everywhere.
(12:10):
But, um, I, um, play guitar and sing, so that's what I mostly did.
And most weeks I think, oh, why am I doing this?
But, yeah, there aren't that many people to do it, so I was happy to.
And then, yeah, I got involved with the youth group, where I got to know Caleb a bit better as well.
That was before we were dating.
And then, yeah, it was through knowing Caleb that I got involved with the Indigenous Ministry.
(12:34):
That we were doing and I was helping out with tutoring for a lot of those same kids that were coming to Sunday school and a few different ones.
So I'd do that a couple of afternoons a week.
My hours were flexible with where I was working.
So I do a bit of tutoring and then I started helping with that Indigenous Sunday school as well and going along to some of the other.
So that was cool to get involved with that.
So
(12:55):
what kind of work were you doing at the time, like just in your day job?
I was working at the local radio station as the copywriter, so writing the scripts for the ads and producing the ads was close to my dream job.
It was pretty fun.
What's your dream job?
I've always wanted to be a jingle writer.
So yeah.
Wow.
So I got to most, I got to write the ads.
I just wasn't doing the music.
(13:15):
That's so cool.
Taylor,
what were you doing at Morrie?
I was working as an agronomist, which is like a advisor for farmers, so in agriculture.
So then when did the shift come and what made you both think about doing ministry long term?
Was that before or after you guys got married?
It was after we got married.
I personally had always wanted to be involved in ministry in some form.
(13:40):
And I think I just always thought that I would be working and doing ministry alongside whatever secular job I had.
And I think working full time realized that it was taking up a lot of my time and that I wanted to be doing more ministry than what I was able to do.
And so we'd been praying for quite a while about what to do and what might be next.
(14:05):
And had sort of considered perhaps taking another job that would free up my time a bit more so I could spend more time doing ministry.
And so, yeah, we'd been praying about that for a few months and then one night got a call from
one of the ministers in a town nearby and he asked if we'd consider doing MTS at his church.
(14:28):
And we said, no, probably not, but we'll pray about it and consider it.
And so we did, we prayed about it.
And then a few days later at church, the bishop at the time was there to preach.
And he said to me, Oh, have you thought about going into vocational ministry?
Like it'd be something worth thinking about.
(14:49):
So we thought two conversations about the same thing in one week is.
You know, maybe not so much of a coincidence.
So we kept praying about it and talked to a few people that we trusted and people were quite positive about us heading into ministry.
So we thought we'd jump in.
We'd been married for about a year, I guess, at that stage.
(15:09):
And in that year, I just felt so comfortable in Moree.
You know, I had my family there, most of my family.
I have one sister who's a missionary in Italy, but the rest of them were in Moree.
We had bought a house, which was lovely, and we were really enjoying living there
and just enjoying being married and just all the things that we were involved in.
(15:30):
So I was just so settled, and I had been praying, I can't even remember what my exact
prayer was, but I was praying that God would help me not to just get comfortable.
Like I didn't want to just live a comfortable life because I know that's not what God calls us to do, is to just be comfortable in life.
So I don't know what I was hoping, I didn't know how God was going to answer that prayer, but I very much felt when Caleb told me about his
(15:52):
phone call with Dave Fisher from Manila, and then the conversation a few days later, I thought, wow, okay, this is God answering Caleb's prayer.
And very much my prayer because it was a huge shock, really, and I felt like my life was kind of
just upended in the space of a few weeks to think, okay, we're no longer going to live in Moree.
In fact, we're in a few weeks, we're going to move to Sydney and live in some random
(16:16):
part of Sydney that I didn't want to live in called Parramatta, which I now love.
But I was very, very upset to be honest.
I was so sure that God.
Actually, was answering our prayers, so there was no way that we could ignore it.
I've never really felt that way, I think, before about something, but yes, very sure that that was where God was sending
us, so that gave me comfort, even though I was feeling very unsettled and scared, I guess, by what life might look like.
(16:41):
Yeah, it's funny,
isn't it, the way that God answers prayers sometimes, even though you were
praying for this and expecting this answer, it's still very upsetting, isn't it?
Yes.
Why?
I don't know.
What made you think?
Okay, this is the right way to go.
Go straight to college.
You know, most people would do the traditional MTS kind
of route.
When Rick Lewis, the bishop, suggested going off to Bible college, I said, Oh, I spoke
(17:06):
to Dave earlier in the week and he, you know, asked if I'd be interested in doing MTS.
And Rick said, nah, don't worry about it.
Just go straight to college.
So that was probably honestly a big reason of why.
So that's like a very, very quick turnaround, as he said, like, All of a sudden, you're uprooting your whole life and you're going to college.
What were your expectations about college before you came?
(17:27):
I don't know.
But my initial response was, well, I'm not going to study.
And then I talked to my sister, Jessica, who's the missionary in Italy.
And she was like, Oh, I mean, you don't have to, but also it'll be great.
You might as well.
I was like, Oh, okay.
I guess I will.
And that was great.
It was a strange first year of college.
So I just did the one year, the advanced diploma.
(17:49):
And the second half of the year was when lockdown happened.
So actually we ended up, we had gone to Moree to visit my family in whatever holiday that was in whatever month that was.
And on the news, you know, it was all really ramping up and we were thinking, Oh, what's going to happen?
Should we stay here or should we go back to Sydney and then risk being locked down there?
(18:12):
Cause it was a bit different in the country at that stage.
So, they weren't about to head into lockdown.
Anyway, so we decided to stay in Moree a bit longer and then that weekend, oh, we were
going to go back because Caleb was on the roster for something at church that weekend.
So, we were like, well, we better go back.
Anyway, we decided to stay in Moree and then that weekend they announced the lockdown happening in Sydney.
So, then we were in Moree then for the next four or five months and that's when I was pregnant with our first child, Lucy.
(18:37):
So, I spent most of it there doing Zoom classes.
Which was just delightful, and we'd just sit there.
A bit of a different experience to most other people at college who are stuck in small apartments and lockdown.
So, I mean, I was sympathetic, but also I was very happy to be in Moree, living with my mum.
It was fun.
A few months.
Yes.
(18:57):
You can tell I had a bit of a negative attitude going in.
I was also very negative in thinking about community living and especially I had no idea
about Parramatta or what was this Moore West business and what was that going to be like.
I'd had enough of community living with boarding school and living at a residential college while I was at uni too.
I thought this is going to be terrible.
Anyway, here we are in fourth year and I have loved Moore West.
(19:20):
And I'll be very sad to leave, so there you go.
God changed my attitude and my heart, which is cool to see.
Yeah.
What about you,
Caleb?
What did you think college would be like going in?
I
don't know what I thought college would be like.
I think I knew that it would be quite difficult and quite academic, and I think it has been.
(19:41):
It's academic.
You already go, Oh, academic.
I wouldn't say I'm a particularly academic type person.
So I find it challenging, but I think that's part of studying.
And I think if it wasn't academic, you wouldn't be getting as much out of it as you should be.
Maybe one of the things I didn't expect was how friendly the faculty are just the fact that
(20:05):
people actually Chat with the faculty and our friends with the faculty and as students.
I think I maybe expected more of a divide
Maybe it's an obvious question, but what made you choose Moor College in the first place?
Well, one thing, we were at an Anglican church in the Armidale Diocese and I think Moor
College is where the majority of the ministers in the Armidale Diocese are trained.
(20:29):
We knew we wanted to go to Sydney and I think We probably, I mean, honestly, I think Moore College is probably the only college ever on our radar.
If we weren't to go to Moore, we probably would have ended up at SMBC.
I had a friend who checked out a whole bunch of different Bible colleges a few years back and he decided Moore College was the best.
So probably between those two things, it wasn't really ever a question for us.
(20:53):
So we talked a little bit about living in the Midwest, doing college during COVID and worrying.
Really interesting.
How was that for you, Caleb?
It was your first year.
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden like you're doing college, but you're doing it remotely.
Yeah.
It worked out well for our year group that lockdown was in the second half of the year.
(21:14):
So we'd had six months in person to get to know each other and get a feel for the year group and bond a bit.
So I think going online after that wasn't too hard because we did already know people a bit.
Whereas I think the year before us did the first six months online.
And I think they struggled a lot, which I can imagine trying to get to know people on Microsoft teams doesn't really work very well.
(21:41):
I didn't like college online.
I struggled with it.
I think.
Just lots of sitting in the same place, and I had a terrible computer at the time.
It struggled to do more than one thing at a time, so that really frustrated me.
I found it challenging, but it was, honestly, it was nice to be in Moray and not stuck in a tiny apartment in Sydney, so that was one bonus.
(22:04):
Yeah, sure.
I assume things were different in Moray as well, like, you didn't have the sort of restrictions that we had in Sydney, did you?
At different points in time, it was different.
But yeah, for the most part, we had a lot more freedom.
Yeah.
There were times when Sydney was locked down when we weren't locked down, but also just the fact that we were in a
house with a backyard, so even when we were locked down, there's still a lot more freedom than being in an apartment.
(22:30):
Yeah, it's probably a rare answer, but God is very good to us in that we were just in the best place to be during COVID.
And the fact that I was pregnant and didn't have to commute from Parramatta to Newtown for class actually was amazing.
What things did you find
challenging about college?
What things surprised you?
And what were some of the big things God has been teaching you during your time at college?
(22:52):
Hmm.
I didn't enjoy classes.
On Zoom, I don't think anybody particularly did.
I found it very awkward and stressful and particularly one subject where it was a lot of
team based learning was just so tricky over Zoom and I struggled with that subject anyway.
I just found it really, really hard and my brain struggled with it.
(23:13):
So that on Zoom was a whole nother level of hard and I think everybody found it on Zoom more challenging.
I think in person it would have been very different.
And that was quite a big struggle for me each week.
Going into something like Moore College, I thought everyone would be really smart, but in an intimidating,
unhelpful kind of way, or like really godly, if you know what I mean, and that I would just feel like
(23:36):
everyone was a bit fake and they would look down on me because I was this negative, cynical person coming in.
I mean, I've mostly gotten to know the people at Moore West, as well as other people in
our year group, but in the last few years after having kids, I've mostly hung out here.
Everyone is very down to earth and lovely and not arrogant, like I maybe expected them to be.
(23:57):
And even our Moore West Bible study here is just such a delight.
I think I thought that would be an intimidating place to be because I've always felt like You know, I should have
more Bible knowledge than I do, having grown up in a Christian family and always going to Sunday school, so I
thought, oh no, I don't want to go, and everyone will think, oh, why does she not know every detail of the Bible?
But it's just such a lovely Bible study, and there are very intelligent, godly women in it, but not in a negative and unhelpful way.
(24:24):
It's just a very Lovely Bible study to be part of, a lovely community to be part of
where everyone feels happy to share and not judging other people's lack of knowledge.
So that's been a really lovely surprise and I'll really miss being part of this Bible study.
And what's something that God's been teaching you through these past four years while you've been at college?
Just to trust in his plans for us and trust that he is good and he knows what lies ahead for us.
(24:49):
So I guess.
The whole way along I haven't really been worried about where we're going to end up.
I think I'm slowly learning to trust him more and to not make solid plans for us and for our family because
I just think at any point they could change and God might send us elsewhere and I feel okay with that.
In the past, I wanted to know exactly what lay ahead for me, and I find that kind of exciting now, rather than being a stressful thing,
(25:13):
thinking, oh, I wonder where God's going to send us next and what we're going to do, and I don't know, and I feel inadequate most of the time,
but knowing that actually God can and does use inadequate people, and we need him to do it, so I feel like I'm very slowly learning that.
That's really cool.
Like, good lessons.
So, Caleb.
How about you?
(25:33):
What things did you find challenging about college
over the four
years?
Well, yeah, a couple of things.
Having a science, like an agricultural science background.
Just the style of learning is very different, like going to history, philosophy, it's a very different type of reading and writing and thinking.
(25:56):
So I think that was one thing that I found challenging.
And probably one of the other big things was my previous job was outdoors a lot, so actually just
Having to learn to sit still behind a desk for long periods of time, that was another challenging thing.
Was there anything that surprised you during your time at college?
(26:16):
You come to college thinking that you have a reasonable grasp on the Bible and good understanding of the Christian faith.
College raises a whole bunch of questions you didn't know you had, and just seeing who God is and
what he's done, and just the fact that you can study it for four years and honestly come out with it.
It's more questions than when you started.
(26:37):
I'm glad that that's a good thing for you, not a frustrating thing.
So what were some of the big things that God was teaching you over these four years?
Probably a similar answer is just gaining an understanding of, like a realization
of that God is so much bigger and wonderful than I could ever imagine.
And I think these questions that are being raised.
(27:00):
Actually, well, I mean, some of the questions will never know the answer to this side of heaven, but
for a lot of questions realizing, well, actually God has given me the skills and the resources to be
able to figure out the answers to some of these questions and to help other people do that as well.
I think perhaps one of the other.
(27:22):
Things God has been teaching me is probably humility, just, again, understanding who I am in relationship to him.
But also, just the fact that you sort of head to college thinking that you've got a grasp on things, and then
you see all these people who are sort of light years ahead of you, and yeah, so it's It's humbling just to see
(27:45):
how small I am in relation to God, but also to know that He chooses to use us and can use me into the future.
And yeah, God willing, He will use us for His glory and for the rest of our lives.
Yeah.
Yes.
Let's talk then about.
the plan for after college.
(28:05):
You said that you guys are going to WeWa?
Yeah, so it's WeWa.
Oh, WeWa, sorry.
It looks like WeWa.
It
does look like WeWa.
And what made you decide to go back to the country?
Well, we came to college Expecting that we would be heading back to the Armidale Diocese.
Honestly, I think a lot of it is just the lifestyle of the country.
(28:28):
We like living in the country.
We like small towns.
Weewar will definitely be the smallest town either of us have ever lived in, so that will take a bit of getting used to, I think.
How big is it?
The town itself is about 1, 500 people.
The district is about 2, 000.
(28:48):
It's probably a quarter of the size of Moree.
Are you just going back to do church ministry?
Are you doing it with someone in particular, church, other staff?
We're with the Armidale Diocese, so we'll be in the Anglican Church in town.
My role is I'll be a curate in charge, so a trainee minister, but there's no other minister in the town.
(29:12):
So the minister from Narrabri will be my boss, my trainer.
Narrow rise about half an hour from where you are.
And how do you feel about,
because
you've been living in community, and like, even in Moree, you had family, friends, church around you.
Now you're going to a very small town where, in a sense, there's
you
(29:32):
and your church.
Yeah, I think it is a bit daunting.
Thankfully, it's about an hour and a half from Moree, which is where Kirsty's family is, so it's not too far from family.
Yeah, I think the responsibility of Leading a church straight off the bat is daunting.
I had always expected to go into an assistant minister role before heading to a small town, but.
(29:59):
Again, it's I think it's just something that even though it's scary and it feels like I'm gonna be out of my depth
I just need to trust God and I suppose do the best that I can, but yeah, trust that God has it under control.
What about you, Kirsty?
How are you
feeling about the move?
I am very excited, actually.
There are definitely things I'll miss, which are things I mentioned before, I'll really miss just being able to walk into
(30:22):
the more West backyard and know that there will either be friends there or someone will see that I'm there and then they'll
Come down and join me shortly after, not having to organise play dates for the kids or organise friends to come over.
I have just loved that about living at Moore West.
It's been so much fun.
I'll just have to be more proactive in inviting people over, but yes, really
(30:43):
looking forward to being in a small town where church is there, the shops are there.
We'll run into the same people.
We can actually invite people over after church and they won't have to travel an hour to get to our house.
Just very excited for the easiness of small town living.
Yeah, I do think I will feel more isolated than I ever have.
(31:04):
I mean, being at boarding school, I was away from most of my family.
It was isolating in some ways, but yes, definitely still had many people around me,
but I feel like my family is close enough and I will quickly get to know people.
In the town, so just really looking forward to building relationships there.
It is a bit daunting, also being the minister's wife, and I guess the expectations that people might have of me,
(31:31):
but again, trying to trust God, like Caleb was saying, trusting that he can use me, even when I don't feel up to it.
And yeah, looking forward to our kids, Lucy and Sally, making some little friends there.
Awesome.
So, are there other challenges, opportunities that you're looking forward to in moving to the region?
Well, one of the big opportunities of, Ministry in small towns is that I think firstly,
(31:58):
people tend to still have some affinity to the church and some respect for the local minister.
I think people are perhaps a bit more open than they might be in the city.
And that might come with challenges as well, that people sort of have a loose
affiliation with the church, but I think that's good enough for them to be a Christian.
(32:22):
So I think the opportunities are that, you know, everyone in town and there's, I think often straight away a level of respect for the local minister.
So I think that provides a lot of opportunities.
And again, probably just echoing what Kirsty said about actually being.
Living close to where we do church and being part of the community.
(32:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, how has your time at Moore equipped you for this next chapter of your life?
I think in one sense, you can probably never be fully equipped to start out into full time ministry, but, no, I think it's given me the
confidence, firstly, to think through the first principles and what is it that we as a church want to do and what direction do we want to be
(33:09):
heading in and To think through those things that are more basic level rather than just trying to sort of keep on and keep the church alive.
So I think college has equipped me to think through.
Those sorts of things, I think it's equipped me to be a much better Bible teacher than I would have been otherwise.
And to have the confidence to answer people's questions and to point them to Jesus.
(33:36):
I think that's probably the main ways I feel more equipped.
Yeah,
I
was just thinking I've had lots of great opportunities both in studying in first year, which feels very distant though.
I like, I think I remember something from my studies, but even just the more women talks, I haven't
been able to get to that many of them because they're in new town and that's a long way from here.
(33:58):
But even just the other night going into new town for a one to one Bible reading training and just constantly throughout college, I guess.
It's being reminded of the importance of God's word and the power of God's word.
It shouldn't be, but it's easy to forget that.
So just being encouraged over these last four years of those truths.
And so going into ministry with that in mind, God's word is the most important thing.
(34:22):
So I feel excited to be actually going into ministry and having opportunities to share God's word with people.
Encourage the faithful Christians there in their walk with God as well, being surrounded by
other Christians here for four years, as well as having access to great seminars and talks.
Awesome.
Wonderful.
Okay.
Final question.
(34:42):
What advice would you give to someone who's thinking about doing full time ministry and maybe even studying at more college?
I don't know.
Just go for it.
Nice.
Live it more West.
West is best.
Definitely consider it, even if you never thought you would have to consider it.
Trust that God may have other plans for your life than you have had for yourself and be willing to trust him with those.
(35:08):
My first piece of advice would probably be to seek wise advice from people that know
you and ask them if they think this is a good idea and something you should consider.
Yeah, I think it's not as scary as it might seem and the community is great.
The classes are challenging, but stretching in a really good way.
So yeah.
(35:36):
Thank you for listening to Moore in the Word, a podcast of Moore Theological College.
Our vision as a College is to see God glorified by men and women living for and proclaiming Jesus Christ.
Growing healthy churches and reaching the loft.
The Christian life is a journey.
The closer we walk with God, the more we surrender our plans for his—
(35:57):
to see the world come to know and love his Son, Jesus.
Where does your life fit into God's plan?
Where is the right place to serve?
How can you be equipped to reap the harvest God has prepared for you?
God finds us in so many different places.
He leads us from school to work—from being served to opportunities for service.
For almost 160 years, he has led committed Christians to Moore Theological College.
(36:22):
Moore College offers a chance to be shaped and transformed by the gospel of the Lord Jesus—
to join a community committed to growing more like Christ—
to deeply engage with God's word in its original languages—
to become effective pastors and proclaimers of his good news—
to prepare for global mission, humble men and women, together doing whatever it takes to bring the gospel to the nations.
(36:43):
The Christian life is a journey, and Moore College can be part of that.
Whether it's the Preliminary Theological Certificate, a one-year Advanced Diploma, a three-year Bachelor
of Theology, or a four-year Master's, Moore College can help you reach the field God is preparing for you.
Find out more on our website (36:58):
moore.
edu au.
That's moore.edu au.
You can find out more and register for any of our events by visiting the Moore College website.
(37:19):
That's more moore.edu au.
If you have not already done so, we encourage you to subscribe to our podcast
through your favourite podcast platform so that you'll never miss an episode.
For past episodes, further resources, and to make a tax deductible donation to support
the work of the College and its mission, please visit our website (37:38):
moore.edu au.
If you found this episode helpful, please share it with a friend
and leave a review on your platform of choice.
We always benefit from feedback from our listeners, so if you'd like to get in touch, you can email us at comms@moore.
(38:01):
edu.
au.
The Moore in the Word podcast was edited and produced by me, Karen Beilharz, and the Communications Team at Moore Theological College.
The music for our podcast was provided by MarkJuly from Pixabay.
Until next time.
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