Long before his 27-year prison term and the creation of the award-winning Ear Hustle podcast, Earlonne Woods was a teenage gang member trying to survive the 1980s LA crack epidemic.
One day, Earlonne's brother brought home two new guns. After shooting the weapons, Earlonne, unbeknownst to his brother, decided to clean one of the weapons. There was only one problem: he had no idea what he was doing. He did his best and returned the gun to his brother, who left the house with the weapon.
It would prove to be a fateful action in both brothers' lives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Max Chopovsky (00:02):
This is Moral of the Story interesting people
telling their favorite shortstories and then breaking them
down to understand what makesthem so good.
I'm your host, max Tropowski.
Today's guest is Erlon Woods,whose path has been, shall we
say, improbable.
He was raised in South CentralLA, the same hood, or group of
hoods, that Dr Dre and Snoopbrought to the mainstream in the
(00:24):
early 90s.
Like Dre, he was from a brokenhome.
His father was a violentalcoholic who wasn't around much
, and his mother was a postalworker who struggled to make
ends meet.
So Erlon and his older brotherspent time on the streets.
When he was just nine years old, erlon lifted up a faulty
railroad crossing gate to allowcars to pass.
Unfortunately for him, that wasa federal crime.
(00:47):
Adding insult to injury, thearresting officers claimed he
was charging each car a dollarto go by, despite the fact that
he didn't have a penny on himwhen he was arrested.
And like Snoop, erlon wasattracted to the gang life.
When he was just a kid, e andhis friends Julian and Juan
created their own gang, the CripBoys, taking the name from the
(01:07):
local gang Shackboy Crip.
It was mostly harmless, but theolder kids eventually noticed E
and he joined their gang, whichby that time was the 76 East
Coast Crips operating on theeast side of LA.
At 14, he started selling weedand then cocaine.
He was 1985 and Erlon wasexperiencing the crack epidemic
in real time.
(01:27):
He didn't just have a front rowseat, he was on the stage.
When he was 15, erlon committedhis first robbery with his
brother, who had gone fromselling drugs to robbing drug
dealers, and at 17, he wasconvicted as an adult for the
kidnapping and robbery of a drugdealer and sentenced to 10
years.
After serving six, he wasreleased in 1995.
(01:50):
On December 28, 1997, after abotched robbery attempt, erlon
and his best friend Furman F-DogLittle found themselves in a
police chase and, after losingcontrol of the car, they jumped
out to run.
The police opened fire.
41 shots later E and F-Dog werehit.
E was lucky.
The bullet just missed hisheart.
F-dog was not so lucky.
(02:11):
Hidden in the back five times,he died at the scene.
At the hospital Erlon had tocall Furman's wife, the mother
of a one-year-old and pregnantwith their child, and tell her
that her husband was gone.
But it got even worse.
Unbeknownst to E, his juvenileconvictions counted as his first
two strikes under California'sinfamous three strikes law.
This conviction for attemptedsecond-degree robbery would be
(02:34):
his third.
He was sentenced to 31 years tolife and another 26 to life for
assault with a deadly weapon.
Dealing with his friend's death,erlon experienced unfamiliar
emotions—loneliness, abandonment, bitterness, disappointment,
shame, regret, fear, anxiety,anger.
This would be his inflectionpoint.
(02:56):
He decided that he was done,destroying whatever remained of
his life.
After over a dozen years andmultiple attempts, e was finally
transferred to San Quentin, alow-custody level two prison
with a media lab.
It was still prison, but for Eit was practically Disneyland.
The prison's media lab was wherehe created the Ear Hustle
(03:17):
podcast with prison volunteerNigel Poor, a visual artist and
photography professor atCalifornia State University.
The two met when Nigel came tothe prison to talk about
photography and they immediatelyhit it off.
They would record the show inSan Quentin's media lab and use
it to share the daily realitiesof life inside prison by those
living it.
On Nigel's suggestion, theyentered the podcast into the
(03:40):
Radio Topia podcast competitionand, of the 1,536 contestants
from 53 countries, they won.
This meant the show would getpicked up by Radio Topia and PRX
, effectively giving themnational distribution and access
to more creative talent.
The rest is history.
Within months, ear Hustle, whichis prison gang for
(04:01):
eavesdropping, was at the top ofthe iTunes podcast charts and
millions of people, yours trulyincluded, devoured each new
episode ready to be taken inside, as the tagline went.
It was an incredibly honest andcompletely unprecedented
perspective.
The podcast set Earlan freecreatively.
What he didn't see coming isthat it would also help set him
(04:22):
free physically.
In 2018, california GovernorJerry Brown commuted Earlan's
sentence, citing his leadershipand his work on the podcast.
He left San Quentin at 10 am onNovember 30, 2018, having served
the total of 27 years in prison.
He's been a free man for fiveyears now and he's been busy.
(04:43):
He still co-hosts Ear Hustle,which is celebrating its 100th
episode with a sold-out tour.
He and Nigel co-wrote a bookcalled this Is Ear Hustle, which
chronicles their journeys, andhe advocates on behalf of those
who have had their livesunfairly shattered by the Three
Strikes Law.
He was a finalist for thePulitzer Prize for Audio
Reporting and has won multipleawards, including Apple Podcasts
(05:05):
Creators we Love and theAuthors Inside Hope Award, which
he says is quote the best awardever from my community, and so,
from gang member to convictedfelon, to inmate, to the creator
and host of an award-winningpodcast to fierce advocate for
the oppressed andunderrepresented Earlan Woods.
Welcome to the show, brother.
Earlonne Woods (05:27):
Say man, I need to hire you, man, take you on
the road with me now.
That was an opening.
I think that was an opening.
So how you doing, man?
I appreciate your words.
Man, it was a lot.
I forgot about a lot of thatstuff up in there.
Max Chopovsky (05:42):
Well, I'm glad to remind you, man, it was quite
hard to tear myself away fromreading about you as I was doing
the research for this episode,because, man, what a journey.
Earlonne Woods (05:56):
It's been a long journey, man, and the good part
is coming.
On the other side of a lot ofoppression and crazy stuff
inside prison, I'm just tryingto be out here for five years
enjoying family, enjoyingfriends and continuing to do the
work with a whole new careerfor us podcast and other stuff.
(06:17):
So it's been fun, man.
I can say that it's been fun.
I haven't taken myself tooserious.
I've just been every day, justwake up, continue to do,
continue to go, continue tosmile.
Max Chopovsky (06:27):
Just keep moving forward.
Earlonne Woods (06:28):
Yes, yes.
Max Chopovsky (06:30):
And you got a big milestone coming up.
In a couple of years you willhave spent more time free than
imprisoned.
I think it's coming up in twoyears, right.
Earlonne Woods (06:39):
You might be right.
I spent a total of 27 years inprison.
Max Chopovsky (06:44):
And that will put you at 54, when you've spent
more time out of prison.
Earlonne Woods (06:48):
Okay, okay, you might be right there.
You might be right there.
I was thinking as an adult,because I always tell people
like my adult years in societycurrently is only seven years,
10 months as an adult in society, because the first time when I
got out I stayed out two years10 months and now it's been five
years.
So as an adult, I've been freefor seven, eight years almost.
Max Chopovsky (07:16):
Well, whether you're in prison or juvie every
hour inside that place shouldcount towards the total.
Earlonne Woods (07:20):
I don't know, definitely no.
Real talk, real talk.
Max Chopovsky (07:24):
So you are here to tell us a story?
Before you tell the story, isthere anything the audience
should know?
You want to set the stage forthe story in any way?
Earlonne Woods (07:35):
So when you first started out and you was
talking about, like me goinglike, say, on the first robbery
with my brother at 15, this isback in that era, because this
is when everybody is, of course,paranoid, everybody is living a
certain life where you havepeople that are drug dealers,
you have people that are jackers, you have this atmosphere of
(07:58):
always needing a gun, alwaysfeeling you need a gun, so
you're pretending to be theseroles.
So it goes back to that era.
All right, man, it goes back tothat era and I hope I get it
right.
Max Chopovsky (08:10):
All right, well, let's go Tell me a story.
Earlonne Woods (08:13):
All right, here we go, max.
When I was like 15, of course,one involved in gangs, which was
just more of a camaraderie withall your friends growing up.
It just turned into somethingelse as you grow which becomes a
gang.
We also I was dealing with mybrother who was in the drug game
(08:33):
at the time, and he went fromlike, say, for instance, selling
drugs to robbing drug dealers.
So it became like real intense.
So it was more of having gunsjust to have them.
So this story come out at onetime he had just got two new
guns, I think they were likenine millimeters or something,
(08:53):
and we were playing around withhim, shooting him.
So I take one in the house andI put my little thing of
cleaning it All right.
So I cleaned this gun and whenI was cleaning it, the hammer I
guess it's called, or the toppart of it came off.
It slid off.
So when it slid off, thesprings and the barrel and stuff
(09:16):
was like it was some stuff thatcame to, some stuff relocated
itself.
So as like a 15 year old, I'mlike, oh, and it's brand new.
You know what I'm saying.
We know it worked.
We just shot the thing justplaying around.
You know what I'm saying.
So I was in there putting thisthing back together before my
brother realized that I didn'ttake the thing apart.
You know what I'm saying.
He just spent some money onthis thing.
(09:39):
So I'm in there putting it backtogether, quietly, putting all
the springs, this, that andthere, and I get it to where
it's like.
When I finally get it, it'scool, it's operational.
So I'm like all right, cool,this is cool.
So I don't ever say nothing, Idon't even pay attention to it,
I just let it be.
And later that day he had tookthat particular gun with him
(10:01):
when he was going, because he'sknew everywhere he went he had
guns on him.
So you know, we've got aCO Iso.
Right the next day he called meand he's like yeah, man, you
know, man, somebody tried tofollow me home last night, man.
And when I had an opportunity,man, the thing was tripping.
You know something like what'sthat, what you mean?
He said, man, I was leavingmom's house.
(10:21):
Man, he say, and it was me andone of his girlfriends, lady
friends, he'd say we was leavingand he noticed that a car was
following them.
And in this game of somebody'sfollowing you, they don't mean
nothing good.
They're not following you tocatch you, to give you some
money or to give you someflowers or some chocolate.
You know they're following youfor a reason, especially at that
time.
(10:42):
So he said he hit a few conasthey were still back there, you
know and he noticed them.
So he went down this one streetand he had the lady that was in
the car with him just sit thereand then, when the car hit the
corner, turn into the driveway.
So the car had hit the corner,he's out the car at this moment
time and he's behind a tree andhe's waiting for the car to come
(11:05):
up.
And when the car Come up, thecar is definitely looking To
where the car that he was injust turned in.
So when he run up on the carfrom their blindside he, I guess
, go to like to shoot into thecar and the gun don't work.
So he ended up breaking thewindow of the car and the car
just take off because it'snighttime.
(11:25):
He couldn't see what was up andhe just was tripping and he
jumped in the car.
They went on about theirbusiness.
So the next day he had called me, was like man, told me what
happened, told me that you know,something was wrong with the
gun.
He could have called me thatnight and told me.
So I still don't say nothing,you know, and it because it
don't down on me.
It didn't down on me that youknow.
I messed up His gun.
(11:46):
You know what I'm saying.
So we talked about it and thenhe ended up going over to one of
his other lady friends houseand he saw a car in the backyard
that had a car cover over itand he was just trying to figure
out like what car was it thathad a car cover over it?
And when he lifted it up it wasthe car with the broken window.
You know what I'm saying.
(12:07):
So one lady was just trying tosee where he was going with the
other lady and his perception ofit was you're trying to follow
me, to ride me, to kidnap me, toTake revenge out on me for
something I may have done.
And you almost got it.
You know them saying you almostgot it.
But had it not been For mylittle brother basically
(12:31):
tinkering with that gun, so Idon't know when that?
When he finally had told methat it was the other lady and I
told him, I said you know what,bruh, what I didn't tell you
was I was cleaning that gun andI took it apart and I tried to
put it back together, bruh, andI thought I put it back together
, but I guess something didn'tact right, you know, because
(12:54):
again, I don't even say I, theworld around her Made that gun
inoperable at that moment.
I'm just say to give her lifebecause people weren't playing
in those days, people were onsome other stuff.
This is when they had justdropped all little things.
They just they had dropped allthose tons of drugs into the
community.
(13:15):
So it was a lot of money outthere and people were playing
those games at the time.
So I always think about thatstory to where, had it not been
for that story could have endedtotally differently.
Max Chopovsky (13:27):
I mean it's crazy how different things were back
then and how close people cameto losing their lives and how
needlessly a lot of people losttheir lives because it could
have been hearsay about Somebodykilled this guy and that guy
came back to get him and in thiscase it wasn't even gang
(13:48):
related, it was just jealousy.
This girl is just jealous.
Earlonne Woods (13:52):
She was suspicious, she was getting her
evidence up.
That's what she was doing.
I Seen you.
I seen you over.
You was with her.
Yeah, and that was crazy.
Max Chopovsky (14:01):
So you saved her life.
Earlonne Woods (14:03):
So when you look at it, that's instead of yes,
because I don't know if he wouldhave shot, I'm sure he would
have.
I don't know if she would havebeen hit, I'm sure she would
have that close.
So I can't say what happened.
I think what happened happenedand it didn't happen, which was
by the grace of God.
So that story always tripped meout, is to where lives were
(14:26):
saved in that moment of Messingup the mechanics of a gun.
Max Chopovsky (14:31):
God works in mysterious ways.
Right.
Earlonne Woods (14:33):
God works in mysterious ways, you know,
sometimes I always feel I'manointed, some I'm always feel
like I'm just touched and youknow, I know my mother pray a
lot for the kid, you know, andsometimes it's just like even in
in my life today, you know,affecting people from far away.
It's just I'm a vessel.
Things that have happened Leadsme in the direction that we're.
(14:55):
Hey, you just a vessel, justhold on, keep it moving, do you
I?
Max Chopovsky (14:58):
Think you could make the case for that, because
your path is, as I said,improbable.
So when you took apart theweapon, what you did was known
as field stripping it, andthere's three components that
you end up with if you excludethe magazine to the weapon.
You get the lower part of theweapon where the trigger
mechanism is the handle.
You get the slide, which is thetop metal part that goes back,
(15:20):
which I slid off, which came off, and then you get so there's
four Total, there's three at thetop there's a slide, there's
the recoil spring and there'sthe barrel.
This is and I'm talking aboutnon Hammer fired semi-automatic
nine millimeter pistols.
There is the slide, the recoilspring and the barrel.
And If you don't know whatyou're doing and you remove the
(15:44):
Slide, the recoil spring and thebarrel fall out and you can't
catch with your eyes how theywere supposed to be before, as
they are falling out and you'relike, oh shit.
And so I can imagine what youwere going through as this
happened, because Trevor wasTrevor's older than you.
You didn't want to get on hisbad side and be like Dude, I'm
I'm so sorry, but I'm curious.
(16:06):
Why didn't you just come cleanand tell him hey man, I fucked
it up, I'm sorry.
Earlonne Woods (16:10):
I guess it's more of okay, I can fix anything
.
It was just like oh, it's backtogether, it's good.
I didn't in my mind, I didn'tcome to the thing that, oh, this
is inoperable now because I mayhave not done something,
something I didn't do orsomething I put in backwards or
something I do.
You know what I'm saying.
Something may have popped out,I didn't see, but I think once I
(16:33):
put some of those things in,that that slide went back on.
It was fixed for me.
Max Chopovsky (16:41):
So let me ask you this you said they were brand
new.
Was it that easy to get guns inLA at that time, brand new
weapons that you could just goto somebody and get?
Earlonne Woods (16:52):
No, I think there was a market for a lot of
that stuff.
I don't know, man, I would liketo say they just pulled up and
opened up U-Hauls.
In the back of it was full ofthat stuff.
I mean, only thing I probablydidn't see people with when I
was growing up was bazookas.
Yeah, like real talk, likeeverything else but a bazooka,
you know fully automaticmachines guns, oozeies, hand,
(17:16):
countless.
I mean, it was a drug cultureback then and what came with
those ship tons of drugs, wasprobably tons of weapons,
because I think that was the erawhere a lot of individuals,
especially African-Americansthat was growing up in the South
Central and hoods or ghettos,was seeing a lot of money, and
it was through the cocaine trade.
It was through all that.
(17:36):
That's where a lot of thingschanged.
That's where, I think, ofcourse, over our history, that's
where drugs are involved, a lotof things changed.
Jealousy comes about,individuals don't care, so they
stay feeding this poison toeverybody.
They just everybody for theirown riches.
Max Chopovsky (17:52):
Of course, and there's real money at stake,
because when you went fromselling weed to selling coke, it
was a 50X increase in what youcould take home a day.
Earlonne Woods (18:03):
Yeah, especially when you're young and you see
that like that you'd have to besomebody that's not affected by
anything not to get involved inthat when you're seeing it come
in and then it might just beyour friend who has the
connection or the hookup thatmake all y'all rich.
And I think a lot ofindividuals fail for that.
Because we was living how wewas living and it's a trip too.
(18:26):
And even on this subject, a lotof these dudes were older than
me.
A lot of these king paying drugdealers they was older than me.
But one thing they were to evendo those operations where they
were savvy businessmen.
You know what I'm saying.
Savvy businessmen To run anorganization like that and to
get stuff where you need it, andit has to be a lot of.
It's a major skill set and Isee a lot of those individuals
(18:51):
are out now and they're doinggreat in the world because of
their savviness.
You know what I'm saying.
I'm talking about not in theworld they came from, because
when you know better, you dobetter.
You know what I'm saying.
And sometimes it's onlypresented to you in a way where
you think that's the way it hasto be.
Like, say, for instance, somepeople it's jobs presented to
them, some people it's the druggame presented to them and
(19:13):
that's what they go after, thatway of money.
So people get hooked on that.
You get hooked on making thattype of money.
But again, I see a lot of thoseguys.
They're out now and they'redoing great.
They're being very successfulthere, involved in whether it's
hip hop, industry, real estate.
(19:33):
I mean they're doing great.
Max Chopovsky (19:36):
I mean, hustle is hustle right, Hustle is hustle.
Earlonne Woods (19:38):
I mean again, when you know better, you do
better.
And I think with the hustlinggame you just take one product
and replace it with somethingthat's not illegal.
Correct?
You know what I'm saying,Correct?
Max Chopovsky (19:49):
Have you ever heard the podcast Surviving El
Chapo about the Flores Twins?
Earlonne Woods (19:55):
No no.
Max Chopovsky (19:56):
So good I got to send it to you.
It's basically about how thesetwo twins, who are from Chicago,
ended up rising to the top ofhis organization and then, once
they got in trouble and I thinkthey were indicted, they decided
to cooperate.
And then they had to goundercover to try to take him
(20:18):
down and wear a wire and all ofthis stuff.
What's crazy about it is itmade me think of your comment,
which is the organization withwhich the cartel ran.
Its operations was similar towhat a Fortune 500 company would
do, with org charts andfinancial records and quarterly
(20:41):
goals and P&L statements, andjust like.
This is insane.
Earlonne Woods (20:46):
And you're under people.
You got to make sureeverybody's making their
shipping and really all that.
Everything has to be on point.
So, yeah, you are running aFortune 500 company.
Max Chopovsky (20:57):
And actually it's probably a Fortune 50 company
once you consider what kind ofrevenue it brings in.
Earlonne Woods (21:03):
Yeah, and then that's a whole other thing.
Where are you going to put that?
Max Chopovsky (21:07):
Yeah, exactly, it's a whole other problem you
got to solve.
That's probably why they'resuccessful.
Earlonne Woods (21:11):
Yeah, I think that probably was the best
problem ever to have.
Where do you put it all?
But it's a trip, just livingthat life.
And then you have dues that,like you were saying, in the
premise of them, they get caughtand they go tell on the people
that help them get rich, whichis that's a you know.
Of course it's a coward's way,you know, to go just, you got
(21:31):
caught.
If the gig is up, go do yourtime.
Whatever it is, go do it.
You know what I'm saying Washshit on the next person, yeah.
Max Chopovsky (21:38):
You know what I'm saying.
It's the code.
So you mentioned that after yougot these guns, you went to go
shoot them somewhere, did somepracticing with them.
Where do you go and do that?
Would you actually go to afiring range or no?
Earlonne Woods (21:52):
no, it's a crazy part.
Like you can have these littleareas we was in LA where you can
get off a few even thebackyards in your yards be so
big and we were so not eventripping that you are over here
shooting a gun in your backyard.
You know what I'm saying, butyou know if the police come they
ain't going to see nobody andwe didn't pick up the shell
cases but backyards used to bebig on the east side.
(22:14):
You know what I'm saying andyou know.
The crazy part is I wasthinking about this years later,
I remember.
Sometimes you know you mightsit a hubcap on a gate and you
might fire into that hubcap.
Right, man, where is thatbullet going?
Max Chopovsky (22:28):
Pass the hubcap into the house that's across the
street.
Earlonne Woods (22:30):
Pass the hubcap into whatever it is the alley,
because just your mind ain'tthere.
You know what I'm saying.
Your mind isn't fully developed, you know, until years later.
You know and it's like wow,this is crazy, the things that
you did back in the day and thestuff that could have happened,
that didn't.
Max Chopovsky (22:47):
Yeah, it blows my mind how many people almost
died, and I mean setting asidefor a minute how many people
actually died, but how manypeople almost lost their lives
for some meaningless shit.
And it's funny you mentionedpicking up shell casings.
Did anybody?
Because I heard I was talkingto somebody recently and they
(23:07):
were like the best weapon tohave is a revolver.
Earlonne Woods (23:12):
Because you don't leave shell cases behind,
because we don't leave shellcases behind.
Max Chopovsky (23:16):
Yeah, so like for self-defense, but it's you know
, you're limited to six orwhatever it ends up being.
Do you guys ever look at itthat way?
I'm curious.
Earlonne Woods (23:23):
I don't know.
I think, especially in thecommunity I come from, I think
the bigger the clip, the betteryou feel.
I remember growing up.
You know we used to be on theselittle crews and one of my
friends had a little 25 or 22.
And he used to be like I don'tknow why y'all laughing at this,
this thing right here makingyou shut up.
You know, it was just theconversations back then that
just used to be hilarious, youknow.
(23:43):
But I think, yeah, the biggerthe clip probably.
I mean, and did you say like,was that stuff ready, easily
accessible?
I think when I was like 16, Ihad a tummy Back from like Al
Capone days Wow, I had aThompson, oh my gosh.
The only difference was itdidn't have the drum clip, it
(24:04):
just had the long clip.
You know, but yeah, that stuffwas like easily accessible and
same with the ammo.
Max Chopovsky (24:11):
Same U-Haul truck , same with the ammo.
Earlonne Woods (24:13):
Same with the ammo.
Yeah, I think back then youprobably could have went to like
what was them little spots theyhad and bought ammo.
I don't think ammo was likemajor.
You could, like you had to bean adult to buy ammunition.
I don't think, I can't remember, but I think you could just go
into they used to call it liketrack auto or one of them little
spots and just going in grabstuff.
(24:35):
I think they might have changedit now.
Max Chopovsky (24:38):
Yeah now it's, there are a lot of restrictions
and, especially for certainstates, they won't even ship to
certain states, to certaincounties, to certain cities,
municipalities, because thereare state restrictions.
But then there are localrestrictions, municipal
restrictions, countyrestrictions, and those can be
(24:59):
on the caliber, on the capacityof the magazine, on the weapon
itself.
I mean, it is, it's restrictive.
Earlonne Woods (25:07):
It's a trip, because I always wondered, like
if this I don't want to say likeWild Wild West but if this was
a nation that allowed people tobe armed, would there be so much
shit going on?
What do you think?
I don't know, because peopleare hesitant to run up on
somebody that has a weapon.
Very hesitant, you know whatI'm saying.
But if a person don't, then atthe end of the day, for whatever
(25:29):
reason, they just looking atthat as a means to an end,
whether it's to gain some typeof money or something.
But I don't know.
Max Chopovsky (25:36):
Well, I think that's the argument that
self-defense concealed carryadvocates make.
And when you talk about, youknow the stickers that you see
on certain places that say noweapons allowed in here.
If you were a criminal, wheredo you think you would go first?
Probably a place that has asign like that, because it's a
fish and a barrel right there'ssomething in there.
(25:58):
If you got that sign, well,whether or not there's something
in there, there certainly isn'tanybody to defend that
something, right?
Earlonne Woods (26:06):
True that, true that to defense this.
Max Chopovsky (26:08):
Yeah.
So as you think about thatstory that you told, with these
crazy sort of coincidences andthe accident of reassembling
that pistol, what is the moralof that story to you?
Earlonne Woods (26:22):
I guess, more than that is probably.
Sometime, god put you where youneed to be.
I needed to be in thatsituation.
I needed to be there to or tobe with my brother at that
particular time to do thatparticular thing, and even
though I wasn't around whenanything else transpired, I did
(26:44):
change the course of action.
So, man, sometime I guess,follow your intuition.
Yeah, follow your.
More than that, follow yourintuitions.
Max Chopovsky (26:56):
Well, it was like the time when you were with
your buddies and you guyssomebody had an idea to run up
on a rival gang, and then youguys got there and you were sort
of staked out.
And then one of your friendsgot up and was like I'm not
doing this, I'm boy jabbed, yeah, yeah.
And then everybody followed himright so you could make the
same argument for that.
Earlonne Woods (27:15):
Make the same argument.
Yeah, no, definitely.
And I think the argument forthat was a little different.
You know that argument was moreof bruh, somebody gonna tell.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah, somebody gonna tell.
So I guess it was the samebecause it straight snapped us
out of what we was into, what wewas trying to do.
You know, guidance growing upis everything.
(27:36):
You know it's a trip.
Now that I look at like youknow again, when you know better
, you do better.
Like one of the things that Idon't do and I try not to do it
is I try not to go places wherepeople need guns and I don't go
to like to clubs.
I don't do the after.
James Brown said it.
I'm a firm believer in whatJames Brown said.
James Brown said I guess theywas asking him about like after
(27:56):
parties and stuff like that.
He say, bruh, I go home and goto sleep, don't know what good
happened after 10 o'clock atnight, what good happened in the
after party areas.
People are drinking and theydon't have the full conscience
of what's going on and shithappened.
You just scuffed somebody footand now they wanna take it to
the next level.
So I try to stay away fromthose type of places.
(28:19):
Man, I try to just go to sleepat night and wake up in the next
morning.
Max Chopovsky (28:22):
And because you stay away from the after parties
and the booze that adds a veryflammable element to that
situation, you can wake up thenext morning.
Earlonne Woods (28:32):
Yeah, no, definitely.
And I think as you grow olderand you understand it's like man
, life could be so cool man, ifwe just mind our own and leave
everybody else alone, and sothat's the end of the trip.
Like I was saying, like that'sthe thing that a lot of me and
my partners that then got outafter these life sentences are
(28:54):
trying our best to do, which iscome back, heal these
communities, go into theseschools and like the same stuff
I was doing when I was young,trying to tap in with those type
of individuals.
Now, you know what I'm saying.
One of the schools that a lotof my partners we go to is
Oakland Tech.
You know what I'm saying.
Tap in with those youngsters.
The homegirl just took them ona trip to San Quentin, right,
(29:17):
and to give them that, to seethat they may hear about it, but
to actually go inside and takea tour and just see what it's
about and what it's looked like.
And you know it could changeone person in that thing Like,
oh, I ain't going down thatstreet no more, and that's a
success.
Yeah, definitely so.
That's what a lot of cats intonowadays, man, it's the therapy
(29:38):
aspect of it, the recoveryaspect of it.
You know, trying our best towhatever we do is to assist and
to help out.
You know it takes a lot, man.
It takes a lot.
We pull it in every differentdirection, but we definitely out
here trying to stay the course.
And it's a long, it's a longterm game.
This shit is a marathon, it's amarathon.
Max Chopovsky (29:57):
And speaking of therapy, you were kind of one of
the pioneers of trying to, orat least downplaying some of the
stigma around therapy, becausefor you, when you were in prison
, it was, as you call it, thenuclear option to get you out of
there.
So you could finally try to getto San Quentin instead of
getting that CPP.
Earlonne Woods (30:15):
Now, that was the story.
That was the story, right there, that was the story.
And it's crazy because theytried to kick me out of mental
health therapy, right, Becausethey felt like man, you are
right, you OK, but I was likeman.
It's cool to come in here andchop it up and have a different
perspective.
You know, on prison or justlife period, and you know, and
(30:37):
it's not another prisoner, it'snot a staff member, you know
what I'm saying.
So I played my way into that toleave the situation, but it was
a door that I needed to open.
I needed to go through thatdoor.
You know I needed to go throughthe mental health therapy door.
You know it was interesting.
Max Chopovsky (30:52):
You know it's interesting to draw this
parallel, despite the fact thatit's not an exact parallel.
But you know you mentioned inyour book that in prison there's
a stigma associated with goingto therapy, because people are
going to think, oh he's crazy,right, he's mentally unstable,
right, and that could almost putyour life in danger.
So I was born in Ukraine andUkraine was part of the Soviet
(31:17):
Union at the time and mentalhealth was not ever looked at as
a real issue, because theresponse to what now would be
considered depression would bewalk it off right, Like go back
to work and stop bitching aboutshit, Like what is wrong with
(31:38):
you, you know?
And so it was really similarand now I think, which is really
fantastic for so many peopleout there, there's not as much
stigma associated with that.
It's like, hey, this is goodfor you.
Earlonne Woods (31:51):
No, definitely.
I advocate that.
You know a lot of people,anybody that's in prison, should
go through some type of mentalhealth services to understand
the cause of the factors of whyyou do what you do or why you
did what you did.
We can wake up and look at itas, oh man, I was just, it was a
means to an end.
You know, I was just trying tomake money.
But why?
What got you on that path?
Why the traditional path,didn't you know.
But I'm just saying just tohave that.
(32:11):
You know, that outlet is veryhelpful because some people go
to prison and you can go prettymuch through your whole sentence
.
I don't care if it's 30 yearsand nobody ever asks you why you
did what you did.
They just did it to serve out asentence, that's it.
Maybe learn a trade or two,that's offered.
But you know, now you'regetting into where you know
individuals are getting into theessence of it, to the
(32:33):
criminogenics, to theunderstanding that and taking
those type of classes, and it'sevolving to other prisons.
So it's getting to a lot of theprisons but they are now
starting to offer those type ofservices and again, I played my
way into it just to lead asituation and it ended up
helping and I contribute thattoo.
I told that story not too longago.
I was on the panel and peoplewas asking me, like what was the
(32:56):
most creative thing I did, youknow, let's say, outside of
Earhussel, right, and I was likewell shit, I watched the Zoloft
commercial about 10 times and Idid exactly what the ball.
I said exactly what the ballwas doing to the psych and I was
in you know what I'm saying.
Max Chopovsky (33:11):
I was depressed, you know what I'm saying, but in
reality you were.
I mean in reality.
When you walked into thatprison you said hey, I've been
depressed since I came in herewith that sentence.
Earlonne Woods (33:21):
Yeah, I was literally depressed and I didn't
know it because it was justcoming out in different ways, or
I might have thought I washaving the blues or tripping,
but I was going throughsomething.
So being able to identify thatand, you know, talk it out is
definitely helpful.
Max Chopovsky (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, it definitely is for anyone.
Earlonne Woods (33:39):
For anybody.
Max Chopovsky (33:41):
Now you have told countless stories in your day
of vastly, vastly differenttopics your TED talk, the panels
, the show.
Even when you go to theseschools and you serve as the
role model for these kids, I betyou start your session with a
(34:01):
story to get their attention andto drive the point home.
So you've told a lot of thesestories, Definitely.
Earlonne Woods (34:06):
Yeah.
Max Chopovsky (34:07):
So, thinking of good stories, what would you say
really good stories have incommon?
Earlonne Woods (34:15):
Well, I think anytime someone can see
themselves in that story or thatstory itself may not have
nothing to do with them, but itresonates with them.
I think that's when you getinto the art of storytelling,
because being involved in itit's a trip.
I'm the king of story ideas,but the question is are there
(34:37):
stories behind those ideas andhow do you flesh it out?
You know what I'm saying.
How do you find that middle,how do you find that ending that
people can't predict or thatpeople are not going to conclude
?
That's the tricky part of itand for me, I think what they
all stories have in it, if youcan have it in there is
(34:57):
definitely an emotional feeling,humor.
An emotional feeling humor.
And that's to me, even when I goback to listen to stories and
take from them, I'm looking forthe emotional aspect of it, what
hits me, because if it hits meI know it's going to hit
somebody else and everyone isdifferent.
Like I probably got files ofstories that we haven't
(35:19):
completed because it's missing.
That you know what I'm saying.
That just won't let it turnthat corner.
But the parallel, I would justsay pretty much they definitely
got to have those ingredients,man, that surprised that element
of somebody did something toget somewhere, but because of
(35:40):
they couldn't get there.
You know what I'm saying.
Max Chopovsky (35:43):
Sounds like you're teaching a storytelling
workshop.
Earlonne Woods (35:47):
That was it right there, that was it.
Max Chopovsky (35:49):
So that's what makes for a good story, what
makes for a good storyteller.
Earlonne Woods (35:54):
Somebody that can talk, somebody that can be
articulate.
You know how people get onstage and they act it out.
But a person you can sit downwith a person and they can have
a great story, but they can'tarticulate the story like it
needs to be told.
So if you're a person that canarticulate and you can make
people see it and I know a fewof them hilarious, that's a
(36:15):
great story.
If you can articulate whatyou're trying to say, you can
make a face and people just falldown because you're articulated
, you're living it out, you'recarrying it out.
You know what I'm saying?
So to me, it starts with aperson being able to be
articulate, being able to get itout, and then they get their
points across.
Max Chopovsky (36:32):
You know I look to some of the great comedians
of our time and even priorgenerations like.
Somebody that comes to mind nowis Kevin Hart.
If you imagine his facialexpressions when he's on stage
telling the story, you could cutthe story in half, because half
of it can be told with thosefacial expressions.
He's so animated.
Earlonne Woods (36:51):
Animation, like some people can say it, but if
they don't act out what they'resaying, you might not get it in
the same cheery way.
You know, my favorite comedianis now Ali Sadiq, and whatever
he's talking about, his facialexpressions or his actions
hilarious, hilarious.
(37:12):
I like Ali Sadiq.
He's a conscious person.
I like a lot of them.
Dave's pilled him up.
I like a lot of them.
But I was just looking atRichard Pryor, red Fox, eddie
Murphy.
You know what I'm saying.
So on Instagram you'll see alot of those Red Fox clips.
I'll stay sending me andLieutenant Robinson that's on
the ear, hustle Sam.
We stay going back and forthwith those Red Fox clips we find
(37:34):
Hilarious man, richard Pryor,obviously a classic Eddie Murphy
.
Max Chopovsky (37:40):
So my wife and I, when we this is before, we were
still dating at the time wethrew a viewing party for Eddie
Murphy Raw and we literally justgot like forties and because
you had to be on brand and weinvited a bunch of our friends
over and we literally watchedthis thing and we were crying,
(38:00):
crying because his level ofanimation is off the charts.
Earlonne Woods (38:04):
Wait a minute, was Raw the red or the purple.
Max Chopovsky (38:06):
I think Raw was the red.
Earlonne Woods (38:08):
Okay, okay.
Max Chopovsky (38:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Earlonne Woods (38:10):
Yeah, Eddie has been a fool forever.
That's one thing I can give itto Eddie Murphy.
He got timing.
Eddie Murphy is like I was justlooking at one with him and
Richard Pryor as something lastnight where Richard was like man
, this, a cute girl over there.
Eddie was like man, that's myfiance man, stop looking at my
feet.
This man, this is about you.
(38:30):
And then he Totally Even thatexchange.
That exchange, man, it was atrip, them two dudes, I think.
I think it's been a lot ofcomedy with them two so good.
But comedy, man, it's just,it's just being able to act it
out and you have a lot of catsthat can do that.
Max Chopovsky (38:47):
Totally, totally.
Now does every story have tohave a moral, and if it doesn't,
is it still a good story?
Earlonne Woods (38:55):
I would think that you're going to find
whatever moral you're going tofind out of it.
You know what I'm saying.
So every story might end upwith the moral of that was hey,
don't walk across the street,you can get hit by a car.
I think you'll be able to dosomething from them.
But I think some stories don'thave to be beginning, middle and
(39:15):
end.
Some stories can just happen,because sometimes we might not
have a beginning, middle and endand we just stick a story
within us existing story becausethat's as much as we got of it.
You know what I'm saying.
We didn't get the end.
So, to answer that question,that's a good question?
I don't think so.
I don't think so, but we willarrive at some deducement.
Max Chopovsky (39:39):
That's what I think.
I think there might not be anexplicit one, but if it's a good
story, there's something thereto be learned from it.
Earlonne Woods (39:48):
I was just telling somebody the other day
we was talking about a student,a kid, and I said that story can
go even without words, the actof whatever was being done, and
to the next, to the next, to thenext.
You don't even need words forit, because people can see it.
Max Chopovsky (40:09):
You know it's really interesting.
You say that because one of mykids has a children's book, is
like one of those cardboardbooks for toddlers and there are
only words on the first andlast, the first two pages and
the last two pages of the bookand the rest of it.
You understand what they'redoing because they're just
illustrations, because the firsttwo pages set the stage and
(40:32):
they kind of explain to you likewhat's going on.
And it's about these threecharacters and two of them are
going over to give this thirdone I think her name is Bink.
The two of these characters,they go to give Bink her
birthday present and they bakethis cake.
Right, one of them bakes thecake and then, as they start to
walk over, the other one says,hey, I'm hungry and this is a
(40:53):
great cake and I have a slice ofit.
And then for the next few pagesit's illustrated that he keeps
asking him for slices of thecake and he keeps giving him the
cake and he gets more and moresad because more and more of the
cake is gone and by the timethey arrive at Bink's house, she
lives in a tree.
All they have left is thecherry from the top of the cake.
And what makes the story sogood is they're standing there,
(41:15):
they're knocking on the door andthey're both just completely
dejected.
Because one of them is like Ibaked this cake, the whole thing
is gone.
I'm so sad.
And the other one just feelssuper guilty about eating this
entire cake.
And she opens the door and sheends up loving her gift, which
she thinks is a cherry.
Earlonne Woods (41:34):
That's it.
She don't know nothing aboutthe cake.
Max Chopovsky (41:36):
No, she's like oh , you got me a cherry, that's
fantastic.
Earlonne Woods (41:39):
That's what's up .
No, definitely, and then I knowthat type of book when you're
talking to a kid, you'rebasically coming up with your
own narrative to this story.
Max Chopovsky (41:48):
Which is exactly what I do.
Earlonne Woods (41:51):
Exactly what I just make shit up and they love
it.
They shit up.
Max Chopovsky (41:53):
They love it because every time they get
something different Same book,different story Exactly exactly
so, speaking of books, what isone of your favorite books that
you would say just nails the artof storytelling.
Earlonne Woods (42:08):
Well, I think it probably was the last book that
I read in prison, which was itshould have been like one of the
first books I read, but it wasthe last book, and it was by
what's his name, powell,something which was the
Alchemist.
Max Chopovsky (42:21):
Oh, what a great book, Paolo Coelho, I think.
Earlonne Woods (42:23):
Yeah, the Alchemist was a good
storytelling book.
So good Because that book tellsa story, a whole circle of
stories.
Max Chopovsky (42:32):
All within one structure.
Earlonne Woods (42:34):
Yeah, I was really amazed by that book
because it's a trip.
One of the cats on deaf road weinterviewed, we was talking
about books and he kept bringingthat book up.
I say, man, I've been hearingabout this book so long, I gotta
read this book.
And I ended up reading and thatwas probably the last book I
read in prison.
I got this other book right now, this Walter Mosley book that
I'm reading currently.
My thing is called Unseen.
(42:55):
I just started it on the planeand I'm only like 10, 20 pages
in.
But I gotta finish that bookbecause I'm trying my best to
bring books into my life becauseI haven't dealt with them.
Sometimes I just audio book,that shit quick, which is good.
Audio book is good, but I justwanted some.
I wanted some page turners.
Max Chopovsky (43:16):
You know Well have you read Jay-Z Made in
America by Michael Eric Dyson?
Earlonne Woods (43:24):
No, no, no, Ain't that the guy?
Max Chopovsky (43:28):
Michael Eric Dyson, the professor.
Earlonne Woods (43:30):
The professor that talk about astrology and
world.
Max Chopovsky (43:33):
Oh no, you thinking of Neil deGrasse Tyson,
also an interesting dude.
Earlonne Woods (43:36):
Oh, okay, I was about to say damn, he writing on
Jay-Z.
Max Chopovsky (43:40):
I bet you that would be fascinating to get Neil
deGrasse Tyson's take on Jay-Z.
Can you imagine?
Earlonne Woods (43:46):
That's my home, gerson.
They live by him.
They don't tell him about it,they live by him.
Max Chopovsky (43:50):
He actually also wrote a book called something
like Astrophysics for People ina Hurry and I got it and it's
actually pretty entertaining,cause you know he's so
irreverent and sort ofself-deprecating that it's good.
But this one might be a goodone to put on your list, cause
he breaks down some of Jay-Z'slyrics and he talks about the
different parts of his life andhow he isn't just an artist but
(44:17):
a brilliant artist, but he talksabout his place in hip hop
culture and American culture andit's a pretty good read.
I would definitely and it's notlong, but it takes a while to
get through it cause it's heavy.
It's like dense, you know.
Yeah, I got you, so that'ssomething I would check out.
So last question for you, e Alot has changed in your life
(44:41):
from when you were 20 years old.
I'm gonna actually go back to17 years old, because I normally
say 20, but 20 wouldn't applyto you, cause I think you're
already in prison at 20.
Earlonne Woods (44:52):
Yeah, I was in.
I left at 17, just turned 17,yeah.
Max Chopovsky (44:56):
So if you could say one thing to your 17 year
old self, what would it be?
Earlonne Woods (45:04):
Don't pretend.
Probably don't pretend, becausea lot of stuff that we do out
here, or what was doing outthere, was pretending to be
something that we weren't, andjust be you.
Follow your heart.
Don't follow the popular order.
You know what's going on.
Just step back and do it theright way.
(45:24):
It's just pretty much the samething I tell all the young cats
today that's growing up like bro.
You know, I know, you see this.
I know you want a part of it.
You know what I'm saying.
But wait your turn, do it theright way.
It might take a little longer,but you're gonna be grounded in
your own foundation you knowwhat I'm saying and it's gonna
be just that much sweeter.
(45:44):
So just wait your turn, man,it's gonna happen.
Max Chopovsky (45:48):
Wait your turn.
That's good advice.
For anyone, man, that's greatadvice.
Well, that does it, brotherErlon Woods, an incredible
person with an incredible story,who has turned his life around
and is making a real, realdifference.
Thank you for being on the show, man.
Earlonne Woods (46:06):
Doing my best, man.
Thank you for inviting me, max.
I appreciate that man.
It was.
You know, I could say my lastfew days was crazy, so it was a
good damn, you know, just chillkick back.
Max Chopovsky (46:19):
Well, I told you, man, this is one time where you
don't have to be a host.
You could just relax and be aguest, just be yourself, Just be
a guest man.
Earlonne Woods (46:25):
Real tough, Definitely appreciate it.
Max Chopovsky (46:28):
So by the time this episode goes live, you're
gonna have a book that is outcalled Grammar Squad
Therapeutics.
Earlonne Woods (46:36):
Yeah, it's just so.
This is a book.
I got it right here.
When I get cats that's inprison and they reach out to me
like bro, this is what I'mtrying to do, this is the leaf
I'm turning and I'll be likewell, what else do you need they
be like, oh man, well, I'mtrying to do this.
So the first book I publishedfor some cats in prison was this
called.
What it means is I once was.
Now I am, I own, I am you knowwhat I'm saying.
(46:57):
And this is pretty much aself-help book to help cats, you
know, get past gang violence.
How do they identify certainthings, you know?
And the cats that actuallyhelped them publish this, they
actually now have a publishingcompany called Arthur's Inside
you know what I'm saying thatalso helps other individuals
inside publish it.
So when I did that one for them, now that they have a nice
(47:20):
organization that help others, Iwent to them and I say, hey, I
want you all to help me publishthis one now.
So just to make this cycle keepgoing, you know what I'm saying
.
So they're doing this one forme.
I told, even though I pay foreverything, I just wanna be able
to utilize y'all services.
You know what I'm saying to getit done.
But what Grammar SquadTherapeutics does is it takes
the individual.
Say, for instance, no matterwhere you at, but I'ma just say,
(47:41):
prison those cats.
That's too hard for the yard.
They're in their 40s, they'rein their 30s, they're in their
however old you are, theyprobably didn't go to school or
they probably didn't.
They forgot everything.
What Grammar Squad Therapeuticsdoes is it just helps you
basically learn that again youknow what I'm saying.
It teaches you to eight partsof speech again you know, and
how to change your thinking andyour behavior.
(48:02):
So in the next few months, youknow, one of my partners that
actually wrote this is gettingout and my mission is to help
his name is Larry Davis is tohelp him kinda get into this
industry and speak his piece,cause he's a very thoughtful
individual and I see what'sgoing on in social media and on
the internet today and I thinkhe's gonna be a breath of fresh
(48:22):
air because we're gonna really,really figure out how to heal a
gang of individuals out therethat found change in such an
oppressive and crazy place likeprison or wherever it is.
It could just be in someone'smind, but we definitely on the
mission to do some changes.
So that's 2024, definitelyshould.
(48:44):
I should be executive producingsome cool stuff and it's gonna
deal with this Grammar SquadTherapeutics, you know, and how
do we get individuals to changetheir mindsets in these schools?
Max Chopovsky (48:54):
Well, I think it's fantastic because, on one
hand, you're going out intoschools and helping the younger
generation, giving them some ofthe guidance they maybe don't
get at home, but you're doingsomething really critical which
is reaching back into the prisonsystem to help people who are
incarcerated still whether ornot they're getting out anytime
soon and help them up, which isthe easy way is not to do that.
(49:17):
The easy way is to say, hey,I'm done, I'm out, I don't want
to have anything to do with it,but you're doing the harder and,
I think, more noble things.
So more power to you, man.
Earlonne Woods (49:25):
I appreciate that, man.
Thank you very much.
It's a mission, but we finnaget it done, though Slowly, but
we gonna get there Slowly,slowly, but you'll get it done.
Max Chopovsky (49:33):
Samirathan, that's right man.
Well, E, thank you, man, forshow notes and more.
Head over to MossPodorg.
Find us on Apple Podcasts,Spotify, wherever you get your
podcast on.
This was Moral of the Story.
I'm Max Dropofsky.
Thank you for listening.
Talk to you next time.
This is Moral of the Story interesting people
telling their favorite shortstories and then breaking them
down to understand what makesthem so good.
I'm your host, max Tropowski.
Today's guest is Erlon Woods,whose path has been, shall we
say, improbable.
He was raised in South CentralLA, the same hood, or group of
hoods, that Dr Dre and Snoopbrought to the mainstream in the
(00:24):
early 90s.
Like Dre, he was from a brokenhome.
His father was a violentalcoholic who wasn't around much
, and his mother was a postalworker who struggled to make
ends meet.
So Erlon and his older brotherspent time on the streets.
When he was just nine years old, erlon lifted up a faulty
railroad crossing gate to allowcars to pass.
Unfortunately for him, that wasa federal crime.
(00:47):
Adding insult to injury, thearresting officers claimed he
was charging each car a dollarto go by, despite the fact that
he didn't have a penny on himwhen he was arrested.
And like Snoop, erlon wasattracted to the gang life.
When he was just a kid, e andhis friends Julian and Juan
created their own gang, the CripBoys, taking the name from the
(01:07):
local gang Shackboy Crip.
It was mostly harmless, but theolder kids eventually noticed E
and he joined their gang, whichby that time was the 76 East
Coast Crips operating on theeast side of LA.
At 14, he started selling weedand then cocaine.
He was 1985 and Erlon wasexperiencing the crack epidemic
in real time.
(01:27):
He didn't just have a front rowseat, he was on the stage.
When he was 15, erlon committedhis first robbery with his
brother, who had gone fromselling drugs to robbing drug
dealers, and at 17, he wasconvicted as an adult for the
kidnapping and robbery of a drugdealer and sentenced to 10
years.
After serving six, he wasreleased in 1995.
(01:50):
On December 28, 1997, after abotched robbery attempt, erlon
and his best friend Furman F-DogLittle found themselves in a
police chase and, after losingcontrol of the car, they jumped
out to run.
The police opened fire.
41 shots later E and F-Dog werehit.
E was lucky.
The bullet just missed hisheart.
F-dog was not so lucky.
(02:11):
Hidden in the back five times,he died at the scene.
At the hospital Erlon had tocall Furman's wife, the mother
of a one-year-old and pregnantwith their child, and tell her
that her husband was gone.
But it got even worse.
Unbeknownst to E, his juvenileconvictions counted as his first
two strikes under California'sinfamous three strikes law.
This conviction for attemptedsecond-degree robbery would be
(02:34):
his third.
He was sentenced to 31 years tolife and another 26 to life for
assault with a deadly weapon.
Dealing with his friend's death,erlon experienced unfamiliar
emotions—loneliness, abandonment, bitterness, disappointment,
shame, regret, fear, anxiety,anger.
This would be his inflectionpoint.
(02:56):
He decided that he was done,destroying whatever remained of
his life.
After over a dozen years andmultiple attempts, e was finally
transferred to San Quentin, alow-custody level two prison
with a media lab.
It was still prison, but for Eit was practically Disneyland.
The prison's media lab was wherehe created the Ear Hustle
(03:17):
podcast with prison volunteerNigel Poor, a visual artist and
photography professor atCalifornia State University.
The two met when Nigel came tothe prison to talk about
photography and they immediatelyhit it off.
They would record the show inSan Quentin's media lab and use
it to share the daily realitiesof life inside prison by those
living it.
On Nigel's suggestion, theyentered the podcast into the
(03:40):
Radio Topia podcast competitionand, of the 1,536 contestants
from 53 countries, they won.
This meant the show would getpicked up by Radio Topia and PRX
, effectively giving themnational distribution and access
to more creative talent.
The rest is history.
Within months, ear Hustle, whichis prison gang for
(04:01):
eavesdropping, was at the top ofthe iTunes podcast charts and
millions of people, yours trulyincluded, devoured each new
episode ready to be taken inside, as the tagline went.
It was an incredibly honest andcompletely unprecedented
perspective.
The podcast set Earlan freecreatively.
What he didn't see coming isthat it would also help set him
(04:22):
free physically.
In 2018, california GovernorJerry Brown commuted Earlan's
sentence, citing his leadershipand his work on the podcast.
He left San Quentin at 10 am onNovember 30, 2018, having served
the total of 27 years in prison.
He's been a free man for fiveyears now and he's been busy.
(04:43):
He still co-hosts Ear Hustle,which is celebrating its 100th
episode with a sold-out tour.
He and Nigel co-wrote a bookcalled this Is Ear Hustle, which
chronicles their journeys, andhe advocates on behalf of those
who have had their livesunfairly shattered by the Three
Strikes Law.
He was a finalist for thePulitzer Prize for Audio
Reporting and has won multipleawards, including Apple Podcasts
(05:05):
Creators we Love and theAuthors Inside Hope Award, which
he says is quote the best awardever from my community, and so,
from gang member to convictedfelon, to inmate, to the creator
and host of an award-winningpodcast to fierce advocate for
the oppressed andunderrepresented Earlan Woods.
Welcome to the show, brother.
Earlonne Woods (05:27):
Say man, I need to hire you, man, take you on
the road with me now.
That was an opening.
I think that was an opening.
So how you doing, man?
I appreciate your words.
Man, it was a lot.
I forgot about a lot of thatstuff up in there.
Max Chopovsky (05:42):
Well, I'm glad to remind you, man, it was quite
hard to tear myself away fromreading about you as I was doing
the research for this episode,because, man, what a journey.
Earlonne Woods (05:56):
It's been a long journey, man, and the good part
is coming.
On the other side of a lot ofoppression and crazy stuff
inside prison, I'm just tryingto be out here for five years
enjoying family, enjoyingfriends and continuing to do the
work with a whole new careerfor us podcast and other stuff.
(06:17):
So it's been fun, man.
I can say that it's been fun.
I haven't taken myself tooserious.
I've just been every day, justwake up, continue to do,
continue to go, continue tosmile.
Max Chopovsky (06:27):
Just keep moving forward.
Earlonne Woods (06:28):
Yes, yes.
Max Chopovsky (06:30):
And you got a big milestone coming up.
In a couple of years you willhave spent more time free than
imprisoned.
I think it's coming up in twoyears, right.
Earlonne Woods (06:39):
You might be right.
I spent a total of 27 years inprison.
Max Chopovsky (06:44):
And that will put you at 54, when you've spent
more time out of prison.
Earlonne Woods (06:48):
Okay, okay, you might be right there.
You might be right there.
I was thinking as an adult,because I always tell people
like my adult years in societycurrently is only seven years,
10 months as an adult in society, because the first time when I
got out I stayed out two years10 months and now it's been five
years.
So as an adult, I've been freefor seven, eight years almost.
Max Chopovsky (07:16):
Well, whether you're in prison or juvie every
hour inside that place shouldcount towards the total.
Earlonne Woods (07:20):
I don't know, definitely no.
Real talk, real talk.
Max Chopovsky (07:24):
So you are here to tell us a story?
Before you tell the story, isthere anything the audience
should know?
You want to set the stage forthe story in any way?
Earlonne Woods (07:35):
So when you first started out and you was
talking about, like me goinglike, say, on the first robbery
with my brother at 15, this isback in that era, because this
is when everybody is, of course,paranoid, everybody is living a
certain life where you havepeople that are drug dealers,
you have people that are jackers, you have this atmosphere of
(07:58):
always needing a gun, alwaysfeeling you need a gun, so
you're pretending to be theseroles.
So it goes back to that era.
All right, man, it goes back tothat era and I hope I get it
right.
Max Chopovsky (08:10):
All right, well, let's go Tell me a story.
Earlonne Woods (08:13):
All right, here we go, max.
When I was like 15, of course,one involved in gangs, which was
just more of a camaraderie withall your friends growing up.
It just turned into somethingelse as you grow which becomes a
gang.
We also I was dealing with mybrother who was in the drug game
(08:33):
at the time, and he went fromlike, say, for instance, selling
drugs to robbing drug dealers.
So it became like real intense.
So it was more of having gunsjust to have them.
So this story come out at onetime he had just got two new
guns, I think they were likenine millimeters or something,
(08:53):
and we were playing around withhim, shooting him.
So I take one in the house andI put my little thing of
cleaning it All right.
So I cleaned this gun and whenI was cleaning it, the hammer I
guess it's called, or the toppart of it came off.
It slid off.
So when it slid off, thesprings and the barrel and stuff
(09:16):
was like it was some stuff thatcame to, some stuff relocated
itself.
So as like a 15 year old, I'mlike, oh, and it's brand new.
You know what I'm saying.
We know it worked.
We just shot the thing justplaying around.
You know what I'm saying.
So I was in there putting thisthing back together before my
brother realized that I didn'ttake the thing apart.
You know what I'm saying.
He just spent some money onthis thing.
(09:39):
So I'm in there putting it backtogether, quietly, putting all
the springs, this, that andthere, and I get it to where
it's like.
When I finally get it, it'scool, it's operational.
So I'm like all right, cool,this is cool.
So I don't ever say nothing, Idon't even pay attention to it,
I just let it be.
And later that day he had tookthat particular gun with him
(10:01):
when he was going, because he'sknew everywhere he went he had
guns on him.
So you know, we've got aCO Iso.
Right the next day he called meand he's like yeah, man, you
know, man, somebody tried tofollow me home last night, man.
And when I had an opportunity,man, the thing was tripping.
You know something like what'sthat, what you mean?
He said, man, I was leavingmom's house.
(10:21):
Man, he say, and it was me andone of his girlfriends, lady
friends, he'd say we was leavingand he noticed that a car was
following them.
And in this game of somebody'sfollowing you, they don't mean
nothing good.
They're not following you tocatch you, to give you some
money or to give you someflowers or some chocolate.
You know they're following youfor a reason, especially at that
time.
(10:42):
So he said he hit a few conasthey were still back there, you
know and he noticed them.
So he went down this one streetand he had the lady that was in
the car with him just sit thereand then, when the car hit the
corner, turn into the driveway.
So the car had hit the corner,he's out the car at this moment
time and he's behind a tree andhe's waiting for the car to come
(11:05):
up.
And when the car Come up, thecar is definitely looking To
where the car that he was injust turned in.
So when he run up on the carfrom their blindside he, I guess
, go to like to shoot into thecar and the gun don't work.
So he ended up breaking thewindow of the car and the car
just take off because it'snighttime.
(11:25):
He couldn't see what was up andhe just was tripping and he
jumped in the car.
They went on about theirbusiness.
So the next day he had called me, was like man, told me what
happened, told me that you know,something was wrong with the
gun.
He could have called me thatnight and told me.
So I still don't say nothing,you know, and it because it
don't down on me.
It didn't down on me that youknow.
I messed up His gun.
(11:46):
You know what I'm saying.
So we talked about it and thenhe ended up going over to one of
his other lady friends houseand he saw a car in the backyard
that had a car cover over itand he was just trying to figure
out like what car was it thathad a car cover over it?
And when he lifted it up it wasthe car with the broken window.
You know what I'm saying.
(12:07):
So one lady was just trying tosee where he was going with the
other lady and his perception ofit was you're trying to follow
me, to ride me, to kidnap me, toTake revenge out on me for
something I may have done.
And you almost got it.
You know them saying you almostgot it.
But had it not been For mylittle brother basically
(12:31):
tinkering with that gun, so Idon't know when that?
When he finally had told methat it was the other lady and I
told him, I said you know what,bruh, what I didn't tell you
was I was cleaning that gun andI took it apart and I tried to
put it back together, bruh, andI thought I put it back together
, but I guess something didn'tact right, you know, because
(12:54):
again, I don't even say I, theworld around her Made that gun
inoperable at that moment.
I'm just say to give her lifebecause people weren't playing
in those days, people were onsome other stuff.
This is when they had justdropped all little things.
They just they had dropped allthose tons of drugs into the
community.
(13:15):
So it was a lot of money outthere and people were playing
those games at the time.
So I always think about thatstory to where, had it not been
for that story could have endedtotally differently.
Max Chopovsky (13:27):
I mean it's crazy how different things were back
then and how close people cameto losing their lives and how
needlessly a lot of people losttheir lives because it could
have been hearsay about Somebodykilled this guy and that guy
came back to get him and in thiscase it wasn't even gang
(13:48):
related, it was just jealousy.
This girl is just jealous.
Earlonne Woods (13:52):
She was suspicious, she was getting her
evidence up.
That's what she was doing.
I Seen you.
I seen you over.
You was with her.
Yeah, and that was crazy.
Max Chopovsky (14:01):
So you saved her life.
Earlonne Woods (14:03):
So when you look at it, that's instead of yes,
because I don't know if he wouldhave shot, I'm sure he would
have.
I don't know if she would havebeen hit, I'm sure she would
have that close.
So I can't say what happened.
I think what happened happenedand it didn't happen, which was
by the grace of God.
So that story always tripped meout, is to where lives were
(14:26):
saved in that moment of Messingup the mechanics of a gun.
Max Chopovsky (14:31):
God works in mysterious ways.
Right.
Earlonne Woods (14:33):
God works in mysterious ways, you know,
sometimes I always feel I'manointed, some I'm always feel
like I'm just touched and youknow, I know my mother pray a
lot for the kid, you know, andsometimes it's just like even in
in my life today, you know,affecting people from far away.
It's just I'm a vessel.
Things that have happened Leadsme in the direction that we're.
(14:55):
Hey, you just a vessel, justhold on, keep it moving, do you
I?
Max Chopovsky (14:58):
Think you could make the case for that, because
your path is, as I said,improbable.
So when you took apart theweapon, what you did was known
as field stripping it, andthere's three components that
you end up with if you excludethe magazine to the weapon.
You get the lower part of theweapon where the trigger
mechanism is the handle.
You get the slide, which is thetop metal part that goes back,
(15:20):
which I slid off, which came off, and then you get so there's
four Total, there's three at thetop there's a slide, there's
the recoil spring and there'sthe barrel.
This is and I'm talking aboutnon Hammer fired semi-automatic
nine millimeter pistols.
There is the slide, the recoilspring and the barrel.
And If you don't know whatyou're doing and you remove the
(15:44):
Slide, the recoil spring and thebarrel fall out and you can't
catch with your eyes how theywere supposed to be before, as
they are falling out and you'relike, oh shit.
And so I can imagine what youwere going through as this
happened, because Trevor wasTrevor's older than you.
You didn't want to get on hisbad side and be like Dude, I'm
I'm so sorry, but I'm curious.
(16:06):
Why didn't you just come cleanand tell him hey man, I fucked
it up, I'm sorry.
Earlonne Woods (16:10):
I guess it's more of okay, I can fix anything
.
It was just like oh, it's backtogether, it's good.
I didn't in my mind, I didn'tcome to the thing that, oh, this
is inoperable now because I mayhave not done something,
something I didn't do orsomething I put in backwards or
something I do.
You know what I'm saying.
Something may have popped out,I didn't see, but I think once I
(16:33):
put some of those things in,that that slide went back on.
It was fixed for me.
Max Chopovsky (16:41):
So let me ask you this you said they were brand
new.
Was it that easy to get guns inLA at that time, brand new
weapons that you could just goto somebody and get?
Earlonne Woods (16:52):
No, I think there was a market for a lot of
that stuff.
I don't know, man, I would liketo say they just pulled up and
opened up U-Hauls.
In the back of it was full ofthat stuff.
I mean, only thing I probablydidn't see people with when I
was growing up was bazookas.
Yeah, like real talk, likeeverything else but a bazooka,
you know fully automaticmachines guns, oozeies, hand,
(17:16):
countless.
I mean, it was a drug cultureback then and what came with
those ship tons of drugs, wasprobably tons of weapons,
because I think that was the erawhere a lot of individuals,
especially African-Americansthat was growing up in the South
Central and hoods or ghettos,was seeing a lot of money, and
it was through the cocaine trade.
It was through all that.
(17:36):
That's where a lot of thingschanged.
That's where, I think, ofcourse, over our history, that's
where drugs are involved, a lotof things changed.
Jealousy comes about,individuals don't care, so they
stay feeding this poison toeverybody.
They just everybody for theirown riches.
Max Chopovsky (17:52):
Of course, and there's real money at stake,
because when you went fromselling weed to selling coke, it
was a 50X increase in what youcould take home a day.
Earlonne Woods (18:03):
Yeah, especially when you're young and you see
that like that you'd have to besomebody that's not affected by
anything not to get involved inthat when you're seeing it come
in and then it might just beyour friend who has the
connection or the hookup thatmake all y'all rich.
And I think a lot ofindividuals fail for that.
Because we was living how wewas living and it's a trip too.
(18:26):
And even on this subject, a lotof these dudes were older than
me.
A lot of these king paying drugdealers they was older than me.
But one thing they were to evendo those operations where they
were savvy businessmen.
You know what I'm saying.
Savvy businessmen To run anorganization like that and to
get stuff where you need it, andit has to be a lot of.
It's a major skill set and Isee a lot of those individuals
(18:51):
are out now and they're doinggreat in the world because of
their savviness.
You know what I'm saying.
I'm talking about not in theworld they came from, because
when you know better, you dobetter.
You know what I'm saying.
And sometimes it's onlypresented to you in a way where
you think that's the way it hasto be.
Like, say, for instance, somepeople it's jobs presented to
them, some people it's the druggame presented to them and
(19:13):
that's what they go after, thatway of money.
So people get hooked on that.
You get hooked on making thattype of money.
But again, I see a lot of thoseguys.
They're out now and they'redoing great.
They're being very successfulthere, involved in whether it's
hip hop, industry, real estate.
(19:33):
I mean they're doing great.
Max Chopovsky (19:36):
I mean, hustle is hustle right, Hustle is hustle.
Earlonne Woods (19:38):
I mean again, when you know better, you do
better.
And I think with the hustlinggame you just take one product
and replace it with somethingthat's not illegal.
Correct?
You know what I'm saying,Correct?
Max Chopovsky (19:49):
Have you ever heard the podcast Surviving El
Chapo about the Flores Twins?
Earlonne Woods (19:55):
No no.
Max Chopovsky (19:56):
So good I got to send it to you.
It's basically about how thesetwo twins, who are from Chicago,
ended up rising to the top ofhis organization and then, once
they got in trouble and I thinkthey were indicted, they decided
to cooperate.
And then they had to goundercover to try to take him
(20:18):
down and wear a wire and all ofthis stuff.
What's crazy about it is itmade me think of your comment,
which is the organization withwhich the cartel ran.
Its operations was similar towhat a Fortune 500 company would
do, with org charts andfinancial records and quarterly
(20:41):
goals and P&L statements, andjust like.
This is insane.
Earlonne Woods (20:46):
And you're under people.
You got to make sureeverybody's making their
shipping and really all that.
Everything has to be on point.
So, yeah, you are running aFortune 500 company.
Max Chopovsky (20:57):
And actually it's probably a Fortune 50 company
once you consider what kind ofrevenue it brings in.
Earlonne Woods (21:03):
Yeah, and then that's a whole other thing.
Where are you going to put that?
Max Chopovsky (21:07):
Yeah, exactly, it's a whole other problem you
got to solve.
That's probably why they'resuccessful.
Earlonne Woods (21:11):
Yeah, I think that probably was the best
problem ever to have.
Where do you put it all?
But it's a trip, just livingthat life.
And then you have dues that,like you were saying, in the
premise of them, they get caughtand they go tell on the people
that help them get rich, whichis that's a you know.
Of course it's a coward's way,you know, to go just, you got
(21:31):
caught.
If the gig is up, go do yourtime.
Whatever it is, go do it.
You know what I'm saying Washshit on the next person, yeah.
Max Chopovsky (21:38):
You know what I'm saying.
It's the code.
So you mentioned that after yougot these guns, you went to go
shoot them somewhere, did somepracticing with them.
Where do you go and do that?
Would you actually go to afiring range or no?
Earlonne Woods (21:52):
no, it's a crazy part.
Like you can have these littleareas we was in LA where you can
get off a few even thebackyards in your yards be so
big and we were so not eventripping that you are over here
shooting a gun in your backyard.
You know what I'm saying, butyou know if the police come they
ain't going to see nobody andwe didn't pick up the shell
cases but backyards used to bebig on the east side.
(22:14):
You know what I'm saying andyou know.
The crazy part is I wasthinking about this years later,
I remember.
Sometimes you know you mightsit a hubcap on a gate and you
might fire into that hubcap.
Right, man, where is thatbullet going?
Max Chopovsky (22:28):
Pass the hubcap into the house that's across the
street.
Earlonne Woods (22:30):
Pass the hubcap into whatever it is the alley,
because just your mind ain'tthere.
You know what I'm saying.
Your mind isn't fully developed, you know, until years later.
You know and it's like wow,this is crazy, the things that
you did back in the day and thestuff that could have happened,
that didn't.
Max Chopovsky (22:47):
Yeah, it blows my mind how many people almost
died, and I mean setting asidefor a minute how many people
actually died, but how manypeople almost lost their lives
for some meaningless shit.
And it's funny you mentionedpicking up shell casings.
Did anybody?
Because I heard I was talkingto somebody recently and they
(23:07):
were like the best weapon tohave is a revolver.
Earlonne Woods (23:12):
Because you don't leave shell cases behind,
because we don't leave shellcases behind.
Max Chopovsky (23:16):
Yeah, so like for self-defense, but it's you know
, you're limited to six orwhatever it ends up being.
Do you guys ever look at itthat way?
I'm curious.
Earlonne Woods (23:23):
I don't know.
I think, especially in thecommunity I come from, I think
the bigger the clip, the betteryou feel.
I remember growing up.
You know we used to be on theselittle crews and one of my
friends had a little 25 or 22.
And he used to be like I don'tknow why y'all laughing at this,
this thing right here makingyou shut up.
You know, it was just theconversations back then that
just used to be hilarious, youknow.
(23:43):
But I think, yeah, the biggerthe clip probably.
I mean, and did you say like,was that stuff ready, easily
accessible?
I think when I was like 16, Ihad a tummy Back from like Al
Capone days Wow, I had aThompson, oh my gosh.
The only difference was itdidn't have the drum clip, it
(24:04):
just had the long clip.
You know, but yeah, that stuffwas like easily accessible and
same with the ammo.
Max Chopovsky (24:11):
Same U-Haul truck , same with the ammo.
Earlonne Woods (24:13):
Same with the ammo.
Yeah, I think back then youprobably could have went to like
what was them little spots theyhad and bought ammo.
I don't think ammo was likemajor.
You could, like you had to bean adult to buy ammunition.
I don't think, I can't remember, but I think you could just go
into they used to call it liketrack auto or one of them little
spots and just going in grabstuff.
(24:35):
I think they might have changedit now.
Max Chopovsky (24:38):
Yeah now it's, there are a lot of restrictions
and, especially for certainstates, they won't even ship to
certain states, to certaincounties, to certain cities,
municipalities, because thereare state restrictions.
But then there are localrestrictions, municipal
restrictions, countyrestrictions, and those can be
(24:59):
on the caliber, on the capacityof the magazine, on the weapon
itself.
I mean, it is, it's restrictive.
Earlonne Woods (25:07):
It's a trip, because I always wondered, like
if this I don't want to say likeWild Wild West but if this was
a nation that allowed people tobe armed, would there be so much
shit going on?
What do you think?
I don't know, because peopleare hesitant to run up on
somebody that has a weapon.
Very hesitant, you know whatI'm saying.
But if a person don't, then atthe end of the day, for whatever
(25:29):
reason, they just looking atthat as a means to an end,
whether it's to gain some typeof money or something.
But I don't know.
Max Chopovsky (25:36):
Well, I think that's the argument that
self-defense concealed carryadvocates make.
And when you talk about, youknow the stickers that you see
on certain places that say noweapons allowed in here.
If you were a criminal, wheredo you think you would go first?
Probably a place that has asign like that, because it's a
fish and a barrel right there'ssomething in there.
(25:58):
If you got that sign, well,whether or not there's something
in there, there certainly isn'tanybody to defend that
something, right?
Earlonne Woods (26:06):
True that, true that to defense this.
Max Chopovsky (26:08):
Yeah.
So as you think about thatstory that you told, with these
crazy sort of coincidences andthe accident of reassembling
that pistol, what is the moralof that story to you?
Earlonne Woods (26:22):
I guess, more than that is probably.
Sometime, god put you where youneed to be.
I needed to be in thatsituation.
I needed to be there to or tobe with my brother at that
particular time to do thatparticular thing, and even
though I wasn't around whenanything else transpired, I did
(26:44):
change the course of action.
So, man, sometime I guess,follow your intuition.
Yeah, follow your.
More than that, follow yourintuitions.
Max Chopovsky (26:56):
Well, it was like the time when you were with
your buddies and you guyssomebody had an idea to run up
on a rival gang, and then youguys got there and you were sort
of staked out.
And then one of your friendsgot up and was like I'm not
doing this, I'm boy jabbed, yeah, yeah.
And then everybody followed himright so you could make the
same argument for that.
Earlonne Woods (27:15):
Make the same argument.
Yeah, no, definitely.
And I think the argument forthat was a little different.
You know that argument was moreof bruh, somebody gonna tell.
You know what I'm saying.
Yeah, somebody gonna tell.
So I guess it was the samebecause it straight snapped us
out of what we was into, what wewas trying to do.
You know, guidance growing upis everything.
(27:36):
You know it's a trip.
Now that I look at like youknow again, when you know better
, you do better.
Like one of the things that Idon't do and I try not to do it
is I try not to go places wherepeople need guns and I don't go
to like to clubs.
I don't do the after.
James Brown said it.
I'm a firm believer in whatJames Brown said.
James Brown said I guess theywas asking him about like after
(27:56):
parties and stuff like that.
He say, bruh, I go home and goto sleep, don't know what good
happened after 10 o'clock atnight, what good happened in the
after party areas.
People are drinking and theydon't have the full conscience
of what's going on and shithappened.
You just scuffed somebody footand now they wanna take it to
the next level.
So I try to stay away fromthose type of places.
(28:19):
Man, I try to just go to sleepat night and wake up in the next
morning.
Max Chopovsky (28:22):
And because you stay away from the after parties
and the booze that adds a veryflammable element to that
situation, you can wake up thenext morning.
Earlonne Woods (28:32):
Yeah, no, definitely.
And I think as you grow olderand you understand it's like man
, life could be so cool man, ifwe just mind our own and leave
everybody else alone, and sothat's the end of the trip.
Like I was saying, like that'sthe thing that a lot of me and
my partners that then got outafter these life sentences are
(28:54):
trying our best to do, which iscome back, heal these
communities, go into theseschools and like the same stuff
I was doing when I was young,trying to tap in with those type
of individuals.
Now, you know what I'm saying.
One of the schools that a lotof my partners we go to is
Oakland Tech.
You know what I'm saying.
Tap in with those youngsters.
The homegirl just took them ona trip to San Quentin, right,
(29:17):
and to give them that, to seethat they may hear about it, but
to actually go inside and takea tour and just see what it's
about and what it's looked like.
And you know it could changeone person in that thing Like,
oh, I ain't going down thatstreet no more, and that's a
success.
Yeah, definitely so.
That's what a lot of cats intonowadays, man, it's the therapy
(29:38):
aspect of it, the recoveryaspect of it.
You know, trying our best towhatever we do is to assist and
to help out.
You know it takes a lot, man.
It takes a lot.
We pull it in every differentdirection, but we definitely out
here trying to stay the course.
And it's a long, it's a longterm game.
This shit is a marathon, it's amarathon.
Max Chopovsky (29:57):
And speaking of therapy, you were kind of one of
the pioneers of trying to, orat least downplaying some of the
stigma around therapy, becausefor you, when you were in prison
, it was, as you call it, thenuclear option to get you out of
there.
So you could finally try to getto San Quentin instead of
getting that CPP.
Earlonne Woods (30:15):
Now, that was the story.
That was the story, right there, that was the story.
And it's crazy because theytried to kick me out of mental
health therapy, right, Becausethey felt like man, you are
right, you OK, but I was likeman.
It's cool to come in here andchop it up and have a different
perspective.
You know, on prison or justlife period, and you know, and
(30:37):
it's not another prisoner, it'snot a staff member, you know
what I'm saying.
So I played my way into that toleave the situation, but it was
a door that I needed to open.
I needed to go through thatdoor.
You know I needed to go throughthe mental health therapy door.
You know it was interesting.
Max Chopovsky (30:52):
You know it's interesting to draw this
parallel, despite the fact thatit's not an exact parallel.
But you know you mentioned inyour book that in prison there's
a stigma associated with goingto therapy, because people are
going to think, oh he's crazy,right, he's mentally unstable,
right, and that could almost putyour life in danger.
So I was born in Ukraine andUkraine was part of the Soviet
(31:17):
Union at the time and mentalhealth was not ever looked at as
a real issue, because theresponse to what now would be
considered depression would bewalk it off right, Like go back
to work and stop bitching aboutshit, Like what is wrong with
(31:38):
you, you know?
And so it was really similarand now I think, which is really
fantastic for so many peopleout there, there's not as much
stigma associated with that.
It's like, hey, this is goodfor you.
Earlonne Woods (31:51):
No, definitely.
I advocate that.
You know a lot of people,anybody that's in prison, should
go through some type of mentalhealth services to understand
the cause of the factors of whyyou do what you do or why you
did what you did.
We can wake up and look at itas, oh man, I was just, it was a
means to an end.
You know, I was just trying tomake money.
But why?
What got you on that path?
Why the traditional path,didn't you know.
But I'm just saying just tohave that.
(32:11):
You know, that outlet is veryhelpful because some people go
to prison and you can go prettymuch through your whole sentence
.
I don't care if it's 30 yearsand nobody ever asks you why you
did what you did.
They just did it to serve out asentence, that's it.
Maybe learn a trade or two,that's offered.
But you know, now you'regetting into where you know
individuals are getting into theessence of it, to the
(32:33):
criminogenics, to theunderstanding that and taking
those type of classes, and it'sevolving to other prisons.
So it's getting to a lot of theprisons but they are now
starting to offer those type ofservices and again, I played my
way into it just to lead asituation and it ended up
helping and I contribute thattoo.
I told that story not too longago.
I was on the panel and peoplewas asking me, like what was the
(32:56):
most creative thing I did, youknow, let's say, outside of
Earhussel, right, and I was likewell shit, I watched the Zoloft
commercial about 10 times and Idid exactly what the ball.
I said exactly what the ballwas doing to the psych and I was
in you know what I'm saying.
Max Chopovsky (33:11):
I was depressed, you know what I'm saying, but in
reality you were.
I mean in reality.
When you walked into thatprison you said hey, I've been
depressed since I came in herewith that sentence.
Earlonne Woods (33:21):
Yeah, I was literally depressed and I didn't
know it because it was justcoming out in different ways, or
I might have thought I washaving the blues or tripping,
but I was going throughsomething.
So being able to identify thatand, you know, talk it out is
definitely helpful.
Max Chopovsky (33:36):
Yeah, yeah, it definitely is for anyone.
Earlonne Woods (33:39):
For anybody.
Max Chopovsky (33:41):
Now you have told countless stories in your day
of vastly, vastly differenttopics your TED talk, the panels
, the show.
Even when you go to theseschools and you serve as the
role model for these kids, I betyou start your session with a
(34:01):
story to get their attention andto drive the point home.
So you've told a lot of thesestories, Definitely.
Earlonne Woods (34:06):
Yeah.
Max Chopovsky (34:07):
So, thinking of good stories, what would you say
really good stories have incommon?
Earlonne Woods (34:15):
Well, I think anytime someone can see
themselves in that story or thatstory itself may not have
nothing to do with them, but itresonates with them.
I think that's when you getinto the art of storytelling,
because being involved in itit's a trip.
I'm the king of story ideas,but the question is are there
(34:37):
stories behind those ideas andhow do you flesh it out?
You know what I'm saying.
How do you find that middle,how do you find that ending that
people can't predict or thatpeople are not going to conclude
?
That's the tricky part of itand for me, I think what they
all stories have in it, if youcan have it in there is
(34:57):
definitely an emotional feeling,humor.
An emotional feeling humor.
And that's to me, even when I goback to listen to stories and
take from them, I'm looking forthe emotional aspect of it, what
hits me, because if it hits meI know it's going to hit
somebody else and everyone isdifferent.
Like I probably got files ofstories that we haven't
(35:19):
completed because it's missing.
That you know what I'm saying.
That just won't let it turnthat corner.
But the parallel, I would justsay pretty much they definitely
got to have those ingredients,man, that surprised that element
of somebody did something toget somewhere, but because of
(35:40):
they couldn't get there.
You know what I'm saying.
Max Chopovsky (35:43):
Sounds like you're teaching a storytelling
workshop.
Earlonne Woods (35:47):
That was it right there, that was it.
Max Chopovsky (35:49):
So that's what makes for a good story, what
makes for a good storyteller.
Earlonne Woods (35:54):
Somebody that can talk, somebody that can be
articulate.
You know how people get onstage and they act it out.
But a person you can sit downwith a person and they can have
a great story, but they can'tarticulate the story like it
needs to be told.
So if you're a person that canarticulate and you can make
people see it and I know a fewof them hilarious, that's a
(36:15):
great story.
If you can articulate whatyou're trying to say, you can
make a face and people just falldown because you're articulated
, you're living it out, you'recarrying it out.
You know what I'm saying?
So to me, it starts with aperson being able to be
articulate, being able to get itout, and then they get their
points across.
Max Chopovsky (36:32):
You know I look to some of the great comedians
of our time and even priorgenerations like.
Somebody that comes to mind nowis Kevin Hart.
If you imagine his facialexpressions when he's on stage
telling the story, you could cutthe story in half, because half
of it can be told with thosefacial expressions.
He's so animated.
Earlonne Woods (36:51):
Animation, like some people can say it, but if
they don't act out what they'resaying, you might not get it in
the same cheery way.
You know, my favorite comedianis now Ali Sadiq, and whatever
he's talking about, his facialexpressions or his actions
hilarious, hilarious.
(37:12):
I like Ali Sadiq.
He's a conscious person.
I like a lot of them.
Dave's pilled him up.
I like a lot of them.
But I was just looking atRichard Pryor, red Fox, eddie
Murphy.
You know what I'm saying.
So on Instagram you'll see alot of those Red Fox clips.
I'll stay sending me andLieutenant Robinson that's on
the ear, hustle Sam.
We stay going back and forthwith those Red Fox clips we find
(37:34):
Hilarious man, richard Pryor,obviously a classic Eddie Murphy
.
Max Chopovsky (37:40):
So my wife and I, when we this is before, we were
still dating at the time wethrew a viewing party for Eddie
Murphy Raw and we literally justgot like forties and because
you had to be on brand and weinvited a bunch of our friends
over and we literally watchedthis thing and we were crying,
(38:00):
crying because his level ofanimation is off the charts.
Earlonne Woods (38:04):
Wait a minute, was Raw the red or the purple.
Max Chopovsky (38:06):
I think Raw was the red.
Earlonne Woods (38:08):
Okay, okay.
Max Chopovsky (38:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Earlonne Woods (38:10):
Yeah, Eddie has been a fool forever.
That's one thing I can give itto Eddie Murphy.
He got timing.
Eddie Murphy is like I was justlooking at one with him and
Richard Pryor as something lastnight where Richard was like man
, this, a cute girl over there.
Eddie was like man, that's myfiance man, stop looking at my
feet.
This man, this is about you.
(38:30):
And then he Totally Even thatexchange.
That exchange, man, it was atrip, them two dudes, I think.
I think it's been a lot ofcomedy with them two so good.
But comedy, man, it's just,it's just being able to act it
out and you have a lot of catsthat can do that.
Max Chopovsky (38:47):
Totally, totally.
Now does every story have tohave a moral, and if it doesn't,
is it still a good story?
Earlonne Woods (38:55):
I would think that you're going to find
whatever moral you're going tofind out of it.
You know what I'm saying.
So every story might end upwith the moral of that was hey,
don't walk across the street,you can get hit by a car.
I think you'll be able to dosomething from them.
But I think some stories don'thave to be beginning, middle and
(39:15):
end.
Some stories can just happen,because sometimes we might not
have a beginning, middle and endand we just stick a story
within us existing story becausethat's as much as we got of it.
You know what I'm saying.
We didn't get the end.
So, to answer that question,that's a good question?
I don't think so.
I don't think so, but we willarrive at some deducement.
Max Chopovsky (39:39):
That's what I think.
I think there might not be anexplicit one, but if it's a good
story, there's something thereto be learned from it.
Earlonne Woods (39:48):
I was just telling somebody the other day
we was talking about a student,a kid, and I said that story can
go even without words, the actof whatever was being done, and
to the next, to the next, to thenext.
You don't even need words forit, because people can see it.
Max Chopovsky (40:09):
You know it's really interesting.
You say that because one of mykids has a children's book, is
like one of those cardboardbooks for toddlers and there are
only words on the first andlast, the first two pages and
the last two pages of the bookand the rest of it.
You understand what they'redoing because they're just
illustrations, because the firsttwo pages set the stage and
(40:32):
they kind of explain to you likewhat's going on.
And it's about these threecharacters and two of them are
going over to give this thirdone I think her name is Bink.
The two of these characters,they go to give Bink her
birthday present and they bakethis cake.
Right, one of them bakes thecake and then, as they start to
walk over, the other one says,hey, I'm hungry and this is a
(40:53):
great cake and I have a slice ofit.
And then for the next few pagesit's illustrated that he keeps
asking him for slices of thecake and he keeps giving him the
cake and he gets more and moresad because more and more of the
cake is gone and by the timethey arrive at Bink's house, she
lives in a tree.
All they have left is thecherry from the top of the cake.
And what makes the story sogood is they're standing there,
(41:15):
they're knocking on the door andthey're both just completely
dejected.
Because one of them is like Ibaked this cake, the whole thing
is gone.
I'm so sad.
And the other one just feelssuper guilty about eating this
entire cake.
And she opens the door and sheends up loving her gift, which
she thinks is a cherry.
Earlonne Woods (41:34):
That's it.
She don't know nothing aboutthe cake.
Max Chopovsky (41:36):
No, she's like oh , you got me a cherry, that's
fantastic.
Earlonne Woods (41:39):
That's what's up .
No, definitely, and then I knowthat type of book when you're
talking to a kid, you'rebasically coming up with your
own narrative to this story.
Max Chopovsky (41:48):
Which is exactly what I do.
Earlonne Woods (41:51):
Exactly what I just make shit up and they love
it.
They shit up.
Max Chopovsky (41:53):
They love it because every time they get
something different Same book,different story Exactly exactly
so, speaking of books, what isone of your favorite books that
you would say just nails the artof storytelling.
Earlonne Woods (42:08):
Well, I think it probably was the last book that
I read in prison, which was itshould have been like one of the
first books I read, but it wasthe last book, and it was by
what's his name, powell,something which was the
Alchemist.
Max Chopovsky (42:21):
Oh, what a great book, Paolo Coelho, I think.
Earlonne Woods (42:23):
Yeah, the Alchemist was a good
storytelling book.
So good Because that book tellsa story, a whole circle of
stories.
Max Chopovsky (42:32):
All within one structure.
Earlonne Woods (42:34):
Yeah, I was really amazed by that book
because it's a trip.
One of the cats on deaf road weinterviewed, we was talking
about books and he kept bringingthat book up.
I say, man, I've been hearingabout this book so long, I gotta
read this book.
And I ended up reading and thatwas probably the last book I
read in prison.
I got this other book right now, this Walter Mosley book that
I'm reading currently.
My thing is called Unseen.
(42:55):
I just started it on the planeand I'm only like 10, 20 pages
in.
But I gotta finish that bookbecause I'm trying my best to
bring books into my life becauseI haven't dealt with them.
Sometimes I just audio book,that shit quick, which is good.
Audio book is good, but I justwanted some.
I wanted some page turners.
Max Chopovsky (43:16):
You know Well have you read Jay-Z Made in
America by Michael Eric Dyson?
Earlonne Woods (43:24):
No, no, no, Ain't that the guy?
Max Chopovsky (43:28):
Michael Eric Dyson, the professor.
Earlonne Woods (43:30):
The professor that talk about astrology and
world.
Max Chopovsky (43:33):
Oh no, you thinking of Neil deGrasse Tyson,
also an interesting dude.
Earlonne Woods (43:36):
Oh, okay, I was about to say damn, he writing on
Jay-Z.
Max Chopovsky (43:40):
I bet you that would be fascinating to get Neil
deGrasse Tyson's take on Jay-Z.
Can you imagine?
Earlonne Woods (43:46):
That's my home, gerson.
They live by him.
They don't tell him about it,they live by him.
Max Chopovsky (43:50):
He actually also wrote a book called something
like Astrophysics for People ina Hurry and I got it and it's
actually pretty entertaining,cause you know he's so
irreverent and sort ofself-deprecating that it's good.
But this one might be a goodone to put on your list, cause
he breaks down some of Jay-Z'slyrics and he talks about the
different parts of his life andhow he isn't just an artist but
(44:17):
a brilliant artist, but he talksabout his place in hip hop
culture and American culture andit's a pretty good read.
I would definitely and it's notlong, but it takes a while to
get through it cause it's heavy.
It's like dense, you know.
Yeah, I got you, so that'ssomething I would check out.
So last question for you, e Alot has changed in your life
(44:41):
from when you were 20 years old.
I'm gonna actually go back to17 years old, because I normally
say 20, but 20 wouldn't applyto you, cause I think you're
already in prison at 20.
Earlonne Woods (44:52):
Yeah, I was in.
I left at 17, just turned 17,yeah.
Max Chopovsky (44:56):
So if you could say one thing to your 17 year
old self, what would it be?
Earlonne Woods (45:04):
Don't pretend.
Probably don't pretend, becausea lot of stuff that we do out
here, or what was doing outthere, was pretending to be
something that we weren't, andjust be you.
Follow your heart.
Don't follow the popular order.
You know what's going on.
Just step back and do it theright way.
(45:24):
It's just pretty much the samething I tell all the young cats
today that's growing up like bro.
You know, I know, you see this.
I know you want a part of it.
You know what I'm saying.
But wait your turn, do it theright way.
It might take a little longer,but you're gonna be grounded in
your own foundation you knowwhat I'm saying and it's gonna
be just that much sweeter.
(45:44):
So just wait your turn, man,it's gonna happen.
Max Chopovsky (45:48):
Wait your turn.
That's good advice.
For anyone, man, that's greatadvice.
Well, that does it, brotherErlon Woods, an incredible
person with an incredible story,who has turned his life around
and is making a real, realdifference.
Thank you for being on the show, man.
Earlonne Woods (46:06):
Doing my best, man.
Thank you for inviting me, max.
I appreciate that man.
It was.
You know, I could say my lastfew days was crazy, so it was a
good damn, you know, just chillkick back.
Max Chopovsky (46:19):
Well, I told you, man, this is one time where you
don't have to be a host.
You could just relax and be aguest, just be yourself, Just be
a guest man.
Earlonne Woods (46:25):
Real tough, Definitely appreciate it.
Max Chopovsky (46:28):
So by the time this episode goes live, you're
gonna have a book that is outcalled Grammar Squad
Therapeutics.
Earlonne Woods (46:36):
Yeah, it's just so.
This is a book.
I got it right here.
When I get cats that's inprison and they reach out to me
like bro, this is what I'mtrying to do, this is the leaf
I'm turning and I'll be likewell, what else do you need they
be like, oh man, well, I'mtrying to do this.
So the first book I publishedfor some cats in prison was this
called.
What it means is I once was.
Now I am, I own, I am you knowwhat I'm saying.
(46:57):
And this is pretty much aself-help book to help cats, you
know, get past gang violence.
How do they identify certainthings, you know?
And the cats that actuallyhelped them publish this, they
actually now have a publishingcompany called Arthur's Inside
you know what I'm saying thatalso helps other individuals
inside publish it.
So when I did that one for them, now that they have a nice
(47:20):
organization that help others, Iwent to them and I say, hey, I
want you all to help me publishthis one now.
So just to make this cycle keepgoing, you know what I'm saying
.
So they're doing this one forme.
I told, even though I pay foreverything, I just wanna be able
to utilize y'all services.
You know what I'm saying to getit done.
But what Grammar SquadTherapeutics does is it takes
the individual.
Say, for instance, no matterwhere you at, but I'ma just say,
(47:41):
prison those cats.
That's too hard for the yard.
They're in their 40s, they'rein their 30s, they're in their
however old you are, theyprobably didn't go to school or
they probably didn't.
They forgot everything.
What Grammar Squad Therapeuticsdoes is it just helps you
basically learn that again youknow what I'm saying.
It teaches you to eight partsof speech again you know, and
how to change your thinking andyour behavior.
(48:02):
So in the next few months, youknow, one of my partners that
actually wrote this is gettingout and my mission is to help
his name is Larry Davis is tohelp him kinda get into this
industry and speak his piece,cause he's a very thoughtful
individual and I see what'sgoing on in social media and on
the internet today and I thinkhe's gonna be a breath of fresh
(48:22):
air because we're gonna really,really figure out how to heal a
gang of individuals out therethat found change in such an
oppressive and crazy place likeprison or wherever it is.
It could just be in someone'smind, but we definitely on the
mission to do some changes.
So that's 2024, definitelyshould.
(48:44):
I should be executive producingsome cool stuff and it's gonna
deal with this Grammar SquadTherapeutics, you know, and how
do we get individuals to changetheir mindsets in these schools?
Max Chopovsky (48:54):
Well, I think it's fantastic because, on one
hand, you're going out intoschools and helping the younger
generation, giving them some ofthe guidance they maybe don't
get at home, but you're doingsomething really critical which
is reaching back into the prisonsystem to help people who are
incarcerated still whether ornot they're getting out anytime
soon and help them up, which isthe easy way is not to do that.
(49:17):
The easy way is to say, hey,I'm done, I'm out, I don't want
to have anything to do with it,but you're doing the harder and,
I think, more noble things.
So more power to you, man.
Earlonne Woods (49:25):
I appreciate that, man.
Thank you very much.
It's a mission, but we finnaget it done, though Slowly, but
we gonna get there Slowly,slowly, but you'll get it done.
Max Chopovsky (49:33):
Samirathan, that's right man.
Well, E, thank you, man, forshow notes and more.
Head over to MossPodorg.
Find us on Apple Podcasts,Spotify, wherever you get your
podcast on.
This was Moral of the Story.
I'm Max Dropofsky.
Thank you for listening.
Talk to you next time.
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