October 5, 2023 • 38 mins
Sian Morson is close with her mom. Although the two live hundreds of miles apart, they speak every day.
After her mom had a stroke, the family decided to have a camera system installed in her house to keep an eye on her.
One day, Sian's mom stopped answering her phone and when Sian checked the cameras, they were all offline.
Sian shares the story of the terrifying ordeal and the resulting surprise epiphany about her own life.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Max Chopovsky (00:02):
This is Moral of the Story interesting people
telling their favorite shortstories and then breaking them
down to understand what makesthem so good.
I'm your host, Max Chepofsky.
Today's guest is Sean Morrison,the Antigua and Barbuda-born
entrepreneur, artist, curator,investor, web-threat enthusiast
and builder of communities.
And that's plural, because Seanhas had quite the pluralistic
(00:26):
and diverse journey through life.
Sean was born on the island ofAntigua to a father from Curacao
and a mother from Monserrat.
So why Antigua?
Well, because, in a portentouspreview of her intrepid
adventures, as Sean's pregnantmother flew to Monserrat, Sean
decided that the world was readyfor her and, after getting off
the plane, Sean's mother gavebirth to the family's first
(00:47):
Antiguan and Barbuda citizen.
Sean spent her formative yearson the island of St Thomas and
moved to New York at the rightage of 11.
Being an immigrant, she had thetypical expectation of becoming
a doctor or a lawyer I hearthat girl but when she cut her
fingers at dishwasher andfainted at the sight of her
blood, it became clear thatmedicine would not be in her
(01:08):
future.
Sean instead decided to embraceher creativity, going to
Manhattan's High School of Artand Design, schlepping an hour
each way from the Bronx andcontinuing the rapid expansion
of her horizons.
Raised as an Adventist, Seanwas not allowed to go to the
movies.
Growing up, so naturally, shechose to major in film and
television at NYU's Tisch Schoolof the Arts and subsequently
(01:31):
picked up a Master of Artsdegree in design for interactive
media at Middlesex Universityin London.
Moving to the Bay Area duringthe dot-com boom, Sean started
as a project manager inadvertising, working for clients
like Phillips, Audi, Coca-Colaand Reuters.
One of the many companies Seanfounded or co-founded was the
Starfish Accelerator, afirst-of-its-kind creative
(01:52):
accelerator that invests inpremium IP from mid-career
storytellers of color, aiming tolift up content creators on the
periphery of the mainstreamindustry.
After spending time at MagicLeap as the head of operations
and the director of immersiveexperience operations, Sean went
all in on the world of Web 3,running community at Palm NFT
Studio and CoolCats LLC andstarting the Black Chain, a
(02:16):
community-driven magazineintended to provide creators of
all races and creeds a platformto showcase their art.
Sean now runs community atScience Magic Studios, a Web 3
studio joint venture betweenCom's Agency, Science Magic,
crypto research firm, DelphiDigital and leading macro
investor Raoul Paul.
Sean has been featured in theWall Street Journal, Marie
(02:36):
Claire, Essence Inc magazine andFast Company.
You would think that it's a farcry from her Caribbean roots.
Except that Sean is doing whatthe West Indians are so good at
building, growing andstrengthening a deep sense of
community with ties so close init that it really is one for all
and all for one.
Sean, welcome to the show.
Sian Morson (02:59):
Thank you for having me.
You really did your research.
It's interesting.
At least I can do.
To hear it all told back to me.
Usually I'm the one telling it,but it's good to hear it back.
Max Chopovsky (03:10):
Oh no, you got to do the research, you got to
have the solid introduction.
Sian Morson (03:13):
Absolutely.
Max Chopovsky (03:15):
Sean, you're here to tell us a story.
Before we get into it, set thestage.
Is there anything that weshould know about the story
before we begin?
Sian Morson (03:25):
I don't think so.
I think it's interesting thatyou started out with my mom
giving birth in Antigua, becausethe story is actually about my
mom.
I think it ties in reallynicely, but I think it's
something that everyone couldrelate to, or I'm hoping so.
Anyway, I've never told thisstory before, so it will be
(03:46):
making its debut on your show.
Max Chopovsky (03:49):
I love debuts.
All right, let's rock and roll.
Tell me a story.
Sian Morson (03:53):
All right.
A few years ago my mom had astroke.
What's important to know aboutme and my mom is we talk every
day and sometimes multiple timesper day.
I live in Texas but my mom doesnot live in Texas.
She lives on her own.
She's fairly active.
She does all of the things.
(04:14):
This one day we had spoken.
She'd gone to the eye doctorand she's telling me the results
of what the doctor said.
Everything was fine.
Later that evening I tried heragain.
I didn't get her but I figuredmaybe she just went to sleep.
Later on that evening I got acall from my cousin who lives
about five or 10 minutes away.
The minute I got the call Iknew something was wrong.
(04:35):
I stayed on the line probablyfor about two or three hours.
The fire and police personneland neighbors were trying to get
the door off to get into thehome my mom had.
She'd been speaking to a friendof hers on the phone and the
friend realized that her speechwas significantly slurred and
(04:56):
she wasn't really making muchsense.
So we're thankful that thatfriend had the presence of mind
to call my cousin and then hewas able to go down and, with
the fire folks and theparamedics get the door open,
get her into, get her some help,get her to the hospital.
I flew down, stayed with her inthe ICU for about three days.
My brother came down.
(05:17):
We stayed with her for aboutthree months.
We're thankful that she had afull recovery from the stroke.
So that was a few years ago.
Now fast forward to a few weeksago, it might have been a month
or two ago actually, I don'tremember.
Anyway, I was trying to reachmy mom.
What we did as a result of thatbecause that was so scary was
we put cameras throughout mymom's home just so we can keep
(05:40):
an eye on.
You know, if anything happenedof the sort again.
So I typically would give her acall, like I usually do.
I didn't get her.
So I remember she said she wasgoing to go to church.
So I said, okay, maybe she's achurch.
I checked the cameras butentire system was down and that
was really scary to me becauseI'd never.
I'd never seen that.
And I believe one of thecameras goes down.
(06:02):
We get notifications on ourphones telling us and usually
it's like a brief outage goesback up.
Entire system was down so hadno visibility on anything.
So yo a little concerned, butnot terribly concerned Called
back and another couple of hoursdid not get a response, Said,
okay, maybe she stayed at churchfor lunch.
That happens sometimes.
(06:22):
I'm really running throughvarious scenarios trying to calm
myself down, but getting moreand more nervous as time goes by
.
Riched out to my brother hey,have you heard from mom?
No, no, didn't speak to hersince yesterday.
Don't know what's going on.
Okay, trying not to alarm himeither, a couple more hours, and
so now it's been like all dayand I'm starting to freak out.
(06:43):
So I reach out to my cousin andI just say, hey, did you see mom
at church today?
Oh, yeah, she was at church andshe went home.
Okay, great, have you spoken toher since she got home?
No, so I'm trying not to alarmhim, but I'm like, look,
somebody needs to go and checkon mom.
I don't have visibility intothe home.
I'm freaking out.
So I call him back and I waslike hey, just, I haven't been
(07:08):
able to reach her all day.
I don't know what's going on.
Please, please, please, sendsomebody by.
You know, one of the kids cango by and just see if she's okay
.
Temeslai, are gonna call frommy mom, right.
She's like oh, I forgot thephone in my purse.
I came home from church, Iforgot the phone in my purse and
you know, it was buzzed.
She turns it off.
She turns the ringer off whenshe's in church, so she wasn't
(07:29):
hearing it and accidentally, Iguess, she unplugged the whole
camera system.
So that explains the wholething.
But those six hours were soharrowing for me, so scary, so
terrifying.
And when it turned out to benothing, I really started to
just examine, like, okay, whywas I so afraid?
(07:50):
I just took a lot of time tostop and really reflect on what
that meant, right.
And so what I came up with wasthat obviously, that was a
fear-based thing.
Fear is real, right, it's anatural emotion.
But what I realized as a resultof that was that a lot of my
decisions were fear-based orcoming from a very fearful place
(08:12):
, and that was a change that Iwanted to make in my life.
And so, as a result of that, Iwent back and just looked at
other fear-based decisions thatI'd made in my life, in my
business, et cetera, et cetera,and just did a full sweep.
And so that's where I am.
Today is right.
Now I'm really examining mylife going deep to make sure
(08:33):
that decisions that I make arenot informed only by fear.
Max Chopovsky (08:39):
So that's my story and you're in that process
now of the re-examination.
Sian Morson (08:44):
It is a process, not an event.
It's not something that justhappens because you realize how
deep-rooted that fear is andit's pervasive throughout your
life, and so that is where I amtoday is really trying to take a
step back and understand themeaning behind some of the
decisions that I have made andwill continue to make throughout
(09:07):
my life.
Max Chopovsky (09:08):
Well, first of all, thank God, your mom's okay.
Sian Morson (09:11):
Yes.
Max Chopovsky (09:13):
That is crazy.
Where does she live?
Sian Morson (09:17):
She lives in Florida.
Max Chopovsky (09:18):
In Florida by herself.
Sian Morson (09:20):
Yes.
Max Chopovsky (09:21):
And how old is she?
She just turned 74, last weekit's like you, installed the
cameras specifically because ofwhat happened, and then she just
unplugged the cameras byaccident, used the phone in her
purse with the ringer off byaccident.
Sian Morson (09:37):
Like all of these things conspire.
Yes.
Max Chopovsky (09:41):
It's like when Chernobyl exploded.
They're like every one of thesethings.
It wasn't any one thing thathappened.
It was literally multiplethings that all had to happen
together in that sequence forthis disaster to strike.
And that's exactly whathappened with your mom, and the
craziest thing about it is shewas completely oblivious the
(10:03):
whole time.
Sian Morson (10:04):
Completely oblivious, like when the kids
showed up.
She was like what are you guysdoing here?
Max Chopovsky (10:10):
Did you have some choice words for her when you
finally talked to her?
Sian Morson (10:14):
No, I was just relieved, really, and we
chuckled about it because, toyour point, it is the perfect
storm of these cascading eventsthat led to this, so learning
experience as well.
She was like why were youworried?
It's like, why was I worried?
This has happened before.
Max Chopovsky (10:38):
I was gonna say you're probably.
I could imagine the thoughtrunning through your mind of
okay, if there's a power outage,I have to install a generator
and probably run some extracables.
And if I do that, what are theother points of failure that
could happen?
And your mom's like, hey, goodluck with that generator, girl,
I just unplugged it, my bad.
Sian Morson (10:56):
I know she's like it's not that deep.
It's not that deep.
Max Chopovsky (11:01):
Nothing wrong with the system.
What I find interesting isthere are these pivotal moments
in our lives that we go through,that, when these pivotal
moments occur, we have anopportunity, and there's an
active component to thatopportunity and a passive
component.
And the passive component ishey, it has been presented to us
(11:24):
and we can either recognize itor not.
The active component is thatrecognition.
And then what do we do about it?
What do we do with thisinformation that we've been
presented with?
And so I feel like, so I'mreading the Rick Rubin book that
he wrote about creating artCreativity.
Sian Morson (11:44):
Yes, it's so good, so good.
Max Chopovsky (11:47):
I literally am just reading.
The chapters are so short.
When I started reading the book, I thought this is crazy.
I'm going to get through like10 chapters and one sitting and
I only get through one becauseit's so deep I have to go back
and reread it.
And so one of the things hetalks about is when you're
creating art, as an artist, youare just an antenna and a
(12:07):
recipient of inspiration, but itdoesn't end there.
Once you receive theinformation, you have to take it
in, hold on to it, interpret itand then do something about it.
And that's what you did.
And so you said hey, Iunderstand, as a byproduct of
this reflection, as a result ofthis reflection, that I have
(12:27):
been making a lot of fear-baseddecisions and so a lot of people
I feel like wouldn't do that.
What do you think made you sortof recognize that and
interpreted as something thatyou needed to take action on?
Sian Morson (12:42):
It's a good question.
I think it comes from a largerexamination of my life that I've
been going through.
I've been just sort of steppingback and taking stock.
I've been thinking a lot latelyabout legacy what do I want
people to feel, to think, whenI'm no longer here?
(13:02):
What do I want my legacy to be?
And I think that was parcel ofit.
I don't know if it actually cameabout, because I have actually
recently read the Rick Rubinbook as well, and so that has
certainly been food for thought,and so I've been doing a lot of
self-examination, and so what Icame up with was that obviously
(13:26):
, I was afraid that somethingwas wrong.
I was afraid that something hadhappened to my mom, I was
afraid that she had passed.
But in the larger scheme ofthings, as I think about things
like legacy, it's like none ofus are getting out of here alive
.
This is an inevitability.
And so what was more importantfor me to focus on?
(13:47):
Yes, certainly, if somethinghad happened to my mom, I would
be sad.
If my mom passes, I would bedistraught, but it would be more
beneficial for me to thinkabout her legacy and what she's
passed on to me and who I ambecause of her.
And so why focus on thenegative in an instance like
that?
Why run to fear as opposed tothinking about better things or
(14:11):
more positive things?
And so that sort of filteredout.
It started with just that, butthen I just really wanted to
examine what other decisionshave I been making that were
fueled by fear?
And when you really sort ofpeel back those layers, I was
like, holy hell, there are a lotof decisions that I've made
that have been based on fear.
(14:32):
How could I revisit thosesituations and learn and not
replicate?
Because I think once you do it,you keep doing it.
You know what I mean, whetheror not you realize, it just sort
of becomes a habit, whetherthose opportunities that I may
have had, that I've passed up onand I've told myself it was
another reason.
But maybe deep down I wasreally afraid and I found a lot
(14:54):
of those things.
So it was really, it wasfrightening, but it definitely
presented that opportunity todig a little deeper.
And yeah, I don't know if thebook was a part of it.
I have been reading.
I've been reading not just thatbook but other books that have
been talking about.
Sort of like on theconsciousness scale, fear is
really at the bottom.
(15:14):
You know what I mean?
It's not.
It's like a negative thing tobe driven by fear.
And so what you want to do isyou really want to raise your
consciousness so that,ultimately, you're not making
decisions that are rooted infear.
And so I just I'm glad that therealization came to me in the
end.
It certainly came by a tragicevent, but I'm glad that it did,
(15:37):
and I'm thankful and I'munfortunately not tragic in the
end.
Yes, yes, that's true, that'strue.
Tragic in my mind and that'sthe other thing is how we psych
ourselves out by just thinkingof things that are not
necessarily positive.
So, yes, I am certainlygrateful.
Max Chopovsky (15:52):
The hardest thing about decisions that are driven
by fear is exactly as you said.
It's not obvious sometimes thatthey're driven by fear and you
really have to peel back thelayers of the onion and go into
this place.
That is not illuminated most ofthe time and, as I like to say,
(16:15):
the good stuff happens in thedeepest, darkest places.
That's where the secrets are,that's where the revelations are
.
But people just have a realdiscomfort around going to those
places because the path ofleast resistance is to say, hey,
this is how I've always donethings.
(16:37):
It seemed to work fairly wellfor me to date.
Why change now?
Because for most people, goodenough is good enough, but they
say that good is the enemy ofthe great, and sometimes it just
takes a massive personal crisisor trauma to nudge you to
(17:03):
reconsider your philosophy oryour drivers.
Absolutely yeah, Okay, so youmentioned legacy and I'm curious
what do you want your legacy tobe?
Sian Morson (17:14):
I don't know.
I'm still figuring it out and Ithink I was listening to your
introduction of me and you'reright, I have done so many
things and it's so varied.
There are times when I'm like,well, maybe I should have
focused on one thing so that Icould be the very best at one
thing.
But I'm sort of like I've gotmy hands in all these different
(17:38):
pots and I don't know if thatmakes.
I don't know if that makeslegacy something easy to point
to or if it makes it a littlemore challenging.
I'm inclined to think it makesit a little more challenging,
but I haven't yet settled onwhat I want my legacy to be.
I've been talking to a lot ofmy close friends about that and
they're like you, probablyalready have left your legacy
and you don't even know it.
(17:59):
But when I think of legacy, Ijust think of meaning, I think
of influencing other people andsomething that lives on way past
me, and I don't even know thatI've done that thing yet.
I might have, but I'm stilllooking for it.
Max Chopovsky (18:14):
Well, there are a handful of people every
generation, and sometimes evenrare than that, sometimes even
more seldom that leave what isan undisputable legacy.
Elon Musk is a perfect example.
How many industries has hechanged?
How many lives has he changed?
But for most of us I wasthinking about this the vast
(18:38):
majority of people are forgottenthree generations after they're
gone.
If you look at the day of thedead as an example, or Coco,
like, the concept behind thatmovie is you die your first
death.
You die your second death whenyou're forgotten, and so there's
this focus.
There's this focus on keepingpeople alive through their
(18:59):
memories, and I think that's awonderful concept.
In reality, though, I justthink back to my great
grandmother great grandfather Iknow very little about them and
my grandfather, who was anincredible, incredible man.
He was a poet and journalist,and when Chernobyl, as I
mentioned, when it exploded, wewere evacuated I was living in
(19:21):
Kiev at the time.
They sent him to the reactorbecause he was a journalist and
he witnessed the devastationfirst hand.
So he's lived an incrediblelife.
He's published so many books,but with every generation, that
fades a little bit, and what Ithink legacy is, at least in
(19:46):
terms of a lasting impact iswhen you create something that
outlives you, when you createart, whether it's books or
paintings or music or whateverthe case may be but something
that people can point to afteryou're gone and say that was to
Rick Rubin's point, that wastheir perspective on the world,
(20:08):
that was an embodiment of theirvalues.
But that's a legacy for peopleoutside of your immediate family
.
The legacy to me, as I thinkabout and I don't have it
figured out, but I do thinkabout this stuff quite a bit the
legacy to me maybe it's not thenumber of people you impact,
(20:29):
maybe it's not the quantity ofthe impact, maybe it's the
quality of the impact, maybeit's I don't have to impact a
thousand people, I'm just notgoing to have that reach.
But what if my three daughtersremember me as an incredibly
present father?
And even if my legacy fades twoor three generations down the
road, they will remember me andthey will be like he was there
(20:54):
to make dinner and play with usand whatever.
And maybe that's what it is.
But it's so hard, especiallywhen you're younger, and even
harder, I think even hard whenyou start to age, to try to
predict that because there's somany variables, it's so unknown.
Sian Morson (21:10):
I think the way that I might choose to deal with
it is to not think about it somuch, just to continue doing
what I'm doing.
Because, you're right, I neverunderstood the term.
You can't be it unless you seeit.
I never understood it untilsomebody said it to me and then
I was like, well, really, Ireally influenced you in that
(21:32):
way.
I was like, yeah, I just neverseen anybody like you, I've
never seen a black woman start amobile development firm and not
be an engineer.
Do you know what I mean?
And I was like, oh, I guessthat does make sense and I'm
thankful that I've had apositive impact.
And so maybe it is in thoselittle moments, maybe it is
those one-on-one experienceswhere we don't even think of
(21:55):
that really probably matter morethan we think they do and
actually contribute in a largerway towards our legacy.
Whatever that may be Because,yes, I've written books, like
you said, I make art.
All that stuff will outlive meand will last longer than I will
.
But for me I think it's thoseintimate moments where you get
(22:18):
the chance to hear from someonehow you've personally impacted
them, and probably those meanmore to me.
Let's just put it that way.
Max Chopovsky (22:27):
Not quantity, but quality.
Sian Morson (22:29):
Exactly.
Max Chopovsky (22:31):
By the way, to your earlier point of is the
approach of doing all of thesedifferent things, kind of a
portfolio lifestyle, a betterapproach than focusing on one
thing?
Or maybe different, but betterfor you?
I can tell you, as somebodywho's done a lot of different
things, that if I only stuckwith one thing, I would have an
(22:56):
acidic sense of regret thatwould eat away at me every
single day.
I went back to do that onething.
It would be toxic to me.
It would be toxic.
There are people in this worldlike Kobe Bryant, for example.
He knew what he wanted to do.
Sian Morson (23:17):
Right, he was focused.
Max Chopovsky (23:19):
That was his box.
That was until the day he died.
That was it.
There were variations on how heapproached it.
He had other initiatives thathe worked on, but it was all
around basketball.
I am not that fortunate.
I'm not fortunate enough toknow exactly what I want to do,
any one thing, but I feel likeworking on all these other
(23:41):
things.
If you have something evenresembling a gift for those
other things, then you owe it toyourself and the rest of the
world, whoever might come across.
Whatever you make, even if it'sone person that says, hey, as a
black woman who started acompany and you're not an
engineer, you've inspired me.
That makes that entire ventureworth it.
Sian Morson (24:03):
I agree.
I used to look at people thatway and be super envious that
they could focus on that onething they're like.
You're right.
I think people like us are justbuilt differently.
I could never just focus on onething.
Even as I sit in my office,I've got at least three things
that I'm doing at any given time.
(24:24):
This is a rare moment where Iam focused on one thing.
I usually do have multiplethings going at the same time,
but that makes me feel alive.
That makes me happy.
That is how I operate.
At my best is when I do have afew things going.
I'm also interested in so manythings I don't know how to.
(24:46):
The world is so full ofwonderful things that I've not
yet learned about.
Why live in myself to just onething, right?
Max Chopovsky (24:52):
You're speaking my language.
Our ADD is a gift to the worldin some way.
Sian Morson (25:00):
I've started to embrace that.
Actually, before I was like ohno, no, no, I'm not.
But now I'm like well, maybethere is something to the fact
that I might have a touch of ADDor something like that, because
it's just how I am wired, I'membracing it and I am extremely
productive, let's just say, as aresult of it.
Max Chopovsky (25:20):
I have a heavy touch of ADD.
The only way for me to be ableto function as a productive
human and member of society isto surround myself with projects
that interest me.
Again, going back to our NorthStar for the Hour, which is Rick
Rubin, he would say you followthe seeds that have promised,
(25:40):
the seeds that are interestingto you.
The order is the art yourselfand then the audience.
Yeah, absolutely absolutely so,Sean.
Let's go back to the story youtold for a minute.
What is the moral of that story?
Sian Morson (25:57):
That's a good question.
I think the moral of the storyis that fear can't be the
motivator for anything and livein the present.
Actually, I think that might bethe better moral is to live in
the present as opposed to thefuture or the past Can't control
either of those.
All you have is today.
(26:18):
So I think that's the moral.
For me, that's a greatobservation, because it's hard.
Max Chopovsky (26:24):
As a human, that's what separates us from
other species is the ability tothink about the past and the
ability to envision a differentfuture.
So here we are tellingourselves to be like the simpler
creatures in the world byfocusing on the present.
But maybe my dog is ontosomething, maybe the fact that
(26:47):
when he's playing with me,nothing else exists in the world
.
Sian Morson (26:49):
Nothing else yeah.
Max Chopovsky (26:51):
Damn, that's a hell of a feeling, you or?
Sian Morson (26:53):
I are not like that , though right, Because we're
doing something right now butthinking about something else.
So it is a constant, constantchallenge, but I think a worthy
one too.
Max Chopovsky (27:04):
Agreed.
Agreed because we're alwayssearching for something that
excites us.
Sian Morson (27:09):
It's the search, it is the constant search.
Yes, absolutely.
Max Chopovsky (27:13):
There's nothing wrong with the search.
So you have both heard and toldsome great stories in your day.
So what in your mind do reallygood stories have in common?
Sian Morson (27:28):
I think good stories have a personal bent to
them.
Telling a story from your ownpersonal POV, I think, helps to
pull the listener in.
I think a good story has tohave beginning, middle and an
end.
That might just be my filmschool education talking, but I
(27:51):
have been programmed to believethat stories must have a
beginning, a middle and an end.
And a moral is always nice too,I think, as much as you can
relate the story to the listener.
Max Chopovsky (28:02):
It's got to be a predictable structure.
Sian Morson (28:04):
Yeah, I think that stories, if they're too heady,
you lose your listener.
So I think the more that youcan personalize your story so
that your listener can relate ona very intimate level, those
are good aspects of storytelling.
Max Chopovsky (28:21):
So then, on the other side of that, what makes
for a good storyteller?
Sian Morson (28:27):
Clarity.
I think that's the big one.
People have to be able tounderstand what you're saying.
So I think it's important tospeak slowly and clearly and
choose your words with intention.
Those all play into the story100% and the experience right,
because you are taking the useron a journey of sorts.
(28:49):
They need to want to come withyou on that journey.
So it is incumbent upon thestoryteller to make sure that
the user wants that you don'tlose them halfway through.
You've got to keep them on thejourney the entire way.
Max Chopovsky (29:02):
That's right.
That's right.
They have to be engaged.
Yeah, absolutely.
Does every story have to have amoral?
Sian Morson (29:11):
No, I don't think so, because I don't know that
the storyteller sets the moral.
The moral is what I get from itas a listener and that may it
may just be a good laugh.
Right, that doesn't have to bea moral, or I could find deeper
meaning.
But I don't think every storyhas to have a moral.
Max Chopovsky (29:30):
Interesting.
Perhaps the deeper meaningbecomes the moral.
Sian Morson (29:34):
Maybe, but maybe not too right.
I mean, when I meet up withfriends, sometimes we're just
shooting the shit and we're justtelling stories.
There's no, but it's a part ofthe overall experience and it
brings us closer together, butthere's no huge takeaway.
But sometimes there is.
I don't know, I don't know, butI would say no.
Max Chopovsky (29:55):
So you mentioned some books that you're reading.
What are some of the sort ofmost impactful books that you've
read?
Sian Morson (30:05):
We've already talked about the Rick Rubin book
, but as a companion to thatthere is a book called the Dau
of Wu written by the RZA, who isalso a music producer, I'm sure
you know, from Wu Tang Clan,and I bought that book last year
at South by and I never read it, and I have been.
(30:25):
I have tons and tons of booksin my Amazon shopping cart and I
told myself the last couple ofmonths that I'm going to read
all of the books that I havefirst before ordering new ones,
and so that book was sittingaround and I picked it up and
it's actually a really good readbecause he recounts his life,
(30:46):
you know, growing up in Brooklynand Staten Island, and you know
he tells the whole story of howhe came together with folks
like Method man and the entiregroup and ODB and all of that.
But then there are sort ofmorals that are rooted in Taoism
and Buddhism and Easternreligions riddled throughout the
book and it is so amazing.
(31:08):
It was not what I was expecting.
I was pleasantly surprised andI think that's a fantastic.
It's a great book.
I don't know how many peopleare even familiar with it,
because I did not even know thatRZA wrote a book, but it is a
really, really, really good book.
It's an easy read too.
Maybe it's really thin, so it'seasy to get through, and maybe
a day or two depending on howmuch you get through it, but I
(31:30):
highly recommend that.
Max Chopovsky (31:32):
Well, I can tell you, just because it's a thin
book doesn't make it an easy oneto read, because I just read
it's true Michael Eric Dyson'sbook about Jay-Z's lyrics and it
was a tiny little thing but ittook me weeks to get through it
because it is dense.
Sian Morson (31:49):
Really, oh wow, I'll have to add that to my list
.
Max Chopovsky (31:54):
Oh, definitely the funny thing about Wu Tang.
Incarcerated Scarfaces by RayKwan was one of the first rap
songs that I ever heard.
This is like early, early 90s,right after we moved to America.
Yeah, Do you remember that song?
It's such a good track.
Sian Morson (32:11):
I don't actually.
Max Chopovsky (32:13):
Oh, that drum beat is so good.
Sian Morson (32:16):
Fun fact is that I grew up on Staten Island, so
when, I came from the VirginIslands.
We landed on Staten Island andyou want to talk about a culture
shock, it was like whoa, it waslike you know, just first of
all being in New York City, butworking class Italian, irish,
blacks, everybody sort of oh, itwas wild.
(32:39):
It was really interesting.
So I had a affinity for the WuTang when they came out because
I was like you never hearanything about Staten Island.
It's like nobody.
Yes, it's a whole differentworld, to be honest, growing up
there.
So it's really really pleasedwhen they came out.
Max Chopovsky (32:55):
And they rapped it big right Because, like Nas
was rapping Queens, you had BigE and Jay-Z rapping Brooklyn,
and so who was?
I think Big Joe was the Bronx,I think, and so like who was
doing Staten Island?
So there had to be somebodyhere comes the Wu yeah exactly.
Oh my gosh.
Sian Morson (33:12):
Exactly.
Max Chopovsky (33:14):
So last question for you If you could say one
thing to your 20-year-old self,what would it be?
Sian Morson (33:23):
It would be.
Oh, the places you will go.
Like.
I think I've always been sortof a bit of a loner, even
through high school, and youknow I wanted to go to film
school.
I went to film school.
Even in film school I was a bitof a loner, which is odd
because film is a collaborativeart, so you literally could not
make your film alone.
You needed people around you.
(33:44):
But I was still very I was veryshy, very sort of, you know,
closed off.
And I remember I got my firstapartment.
It was on Avenue B, between 6thand 7th and Manhattan.
I, you know, walked to school,go to work, walk home and I,
just I was in my head a lot justthinking about my God, what is
my life going to be like?
Am I going to stay in New York?
(34:04):
Am I going to leave?
Am I, what am I going to do?
Am I going to end up in thefilm industry?
And so I could have neverimagined everything that I've
done when I was that that youknow young person in New York,
just sort of starting out mylife and trying to chart a
course for myself.
I could never have imaginedthat I would have lived in
(34:26):
London, traveled all over theworld, spoken all over the world
in front of hundreds andthousands of people, written to
books you know just everything.
No clue.
You have no clue.
You know.
You think, oh my God,everything is so small.
But it's really really not.
And so I think, yeah, all theplaces you'll go is the one
thing I would say to that younggirl.
She had no clue, she had noidea where she would end up.
Max Chopovsky (34:49):
But some timeless Dr Seuss wisdom.
Sian Morson (34:53):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah.
Thank you so much, Bye.
Max Chopovsky (34:57):
Do you know who else was in his head a lot, as
he was taking publictransportation in New York Is
Lynn Manuel Miranda.
Sian Morson (35:07):
Ah yes yeah, yeah.
Fun fact is the MirandaFoundation is actually an
investor in Starfish.
Max Chopovsky (35:14):
No way.
Sian Morson (35:15):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, so it's a wonderful full
circle moment there.
Max Chopovsky (35:19):
Oh my gosh.
I reached out to his team toget him on the show because I'm
ambitious like that, and Iliterally wrote him.
I wrote this massive rapmassive.
It was like two pages long,really yeah and they just
responded and they said that wasa very creative note, but Lynn
Manuel is too busy with hisproduction schedule.
I was like damn, oh man so goodthough.
Sian Morson (35:42):
Wow, I'd love to read that.
Max Chopovsky (35:45):
All of a sudden, it's no problem.
Yeah, all of a sudden it's whenwe get off.
Sian Morson (35:48):
I mean, I remember where I was when I first heard
the soundtrack to Hamilton and Iwas just like my mind was
completely blown, justcompletely blown.
Just how do you take a storylike that and turn it into like
hip hop?
But then, when you reallylisten to it, this guy was a
student of hip hop.
(36:09):
Like, without a doubt, the waythat he crafted those, the
storytelling was just brilliant,completely brilliant.
Max Chopovsky (36:18):
The fact that he's doing.
You can divide Disney moviesinto the before Lynn Manuel era
and the after Lynn Manuel era,because everything from like the
Maui's rap and Moana to all ofthe actual songs and chord
progressions in Kanto.
Sian Morson (36:39):
Oh, uh-huh.
Max Chopovsky (36:40):
Like all of that.
I remember there was one timehe was on stage presenting at
one of the award shows and hewas introducing something about
Moana and he said this line thatwas something like with her
eyes on the horizon line, and Iwas just like that's just
incredible.
(37:00):
Like he repeats the same two orthree syllables across multiple
words and it all makes sense.
It was just don't get mestarted on it.
Sian Morson (37:09):
Well, we'll have to have a whole separate
conversation about, aboutEmmanuel and his brilliance.
Max Chopovsky (37:14):
That'll have to happen.
Yeah, he's another guy who'sgoing to leave a legacy that
will long, long outlive him.
Sian Morson (37:20):
Long outlive him Can you imagine, without a doubt
.
Max Chopovsky (37:25):
Well, that does it Really.
Wow, I know, flew by, didn't it?
Sian Morson (37:32):
It did fly by, yeah .
Max Chopovsky (37:34):
I think it's rare because a conversation where
you are actually in the momentand you're actually engaged and
the other person is actuallyengaged is that kind of rare
conversation and makes the timefly by.
Sian Morson (37:49):
And I just want to say thank you.
This is.
It's such a brilliant idea fora podcast.
I listened to tons and tons ofpodcasts and I'm actually
recording my own now, but thisis such a brilliant idea.
It's really, really clever andso so smart.
I love it.
Love it, yeah.
Max Chopovsky (38:06):
I appreciate it, sean.
Well, it was absolutely anhonor to have you on the show.
Sean Morson, entrepreneur,investor, thought leader,
community builder, polymath ofthe highest caliber, thank you.
Sian Morson (38:22):
Thank you for having me, Max.
Max Chopovsky (38:25):
For show notes and more head over to MossPodorg
.
Find us on Apple Podcasts,spotify, wherever you get your
podcast on.
This was Moral of the Story.
I'm Max Jupowski.
Thank you for listening.
Talk to you next time.
This is Moral of the Story interesting people
telling their favorite shortstories and then breaking them
down to understand what makesthem so good.
I'm your host, Max Chepofsky.
Today's guest is Sean Morrison,the Antigua and Barbuda-born
entrepreneur, artist, curator,investor, web-threat enthusiast
and builder of communities.
And that's plural, because Seanhas had quite the pluralistic
(00:26):
and diverse journey through life.
Sean was born on the island ofAntigua to a father from Curacao
and a mother from Monserrat.
So why Antigua?
Well, because, in a portentouspreview of her intrepid
adventures, as Sean's pregnantmother flew to Monserrat, Sean
decided that the world was readyfor her and, after getting off
the plane, Sean's mother gavebirth to the family's first
(00:47):
Antiguan and Barbuda citizen.
Sean spent her formative yearson the island of St Thomas and
moved to New York at the rightage of 11.
Being an immigrant, she had thetypical expectation of becoming
a doctor or a lawyer I hearthat girl but when she cut her
fingers at dishwasher andfainted at the sight of her
blood, it became clear thatmedicine would not be in her
(01:08):
future.
Sean instead decided to embraceher creativity, going to
Manhattan's High School of Artand Design, schlepping an hour
each way from the Bronx andcontinuing the rapid expansion
of her horizons.
Raised as an Adventist, Seanwas not allowed to go to the
movies.
Growing up, so naturally, shechose to major in film and
television at NYU's Tisch Schoolof the Arts and subsequently
(01:31):
picked up a Master of Artsdegree in design for interactive
media at Middlesex Universityin London.
Moving to the Bay Area duringthe dot-com boom, Sean started
as a project manager inadvertising, working for clients
like Phillips, Audi, Coca-Colaand Reuters.
One of the many companies Seanfounded or co-founded was the
Starfish Accelerator, afirst-of-its-kind creative
(01:52):
accelerator that invests inpremium IP from mid-career
storytellers of color, aiming tolift up content creators on the
periphery of the mainstreamindustry.
After spending time at MagicLeap as the head of operations
and the director of immersiveexperience operations, Sean went
all in on the world of Web 3,running community at Palm NFT
Studio and CoolCats LLC andstarting the Black Chain, a
(02:16):
community-driven magazineintended to provide creators of
all races and creeds a platformto showcase their art.
Sean now runs community atScience Magic Studios, a Web 3
studio joint venture betweenCom's Agency, Science Magic,
crypto research firm, DelphiDigital and leading macro
investor Raoul Paul.
Sean has been featured in theWall Street Journal, Marie
(02:36):
Claire, Essence Inc magazine andFast Company.
You would think that it's a farcry from her Caribbean roots.
Except that Sean is doing whatthe West Indians are so good at
building, growing andstrengthening a deep sense of
community with ties so close init that it really is one for all
and all for one.
Sean, welcome to the show.
Sian Morson (02:59):
Thank you for having me.
You really did your research.
It's interesting.
At least I can do.
To hear it all told back to me.
Usually I'm the one telling it,but it's good to hear it back.
Max Chopovsky (03:10):
Oh no, you got to do the research, you got to
have the solid introduction.
Sian Morson (03:13):
Absolutely.
Max Chopovsky (03:15):
Sean, you're here to tell us a story.
Before we get into it, set thestage.
Is there anything that weshould know about the story
before we begin?
Sian Morson (03:25):
I don't think so.
I think it's interesting thatyou started out with my mom
giving birth in Antigua, becausethe story is actually about my
mom.
I think it ties in reallynicely, but I think it's
something that everyone couldrelate to, or I'm hoping so.
Anyway, I've never told thisstory before, so it will be
(03:46):
making its debut on your show.
Max Chopovsky (03:49):
I love debuts.
All right, let's rock and roll.
Tell me a story.
Sian Morson (03:53):
All right.
A few years ago my mom had astroke.
What's important to know aboutme and my mom is we talk every
day and sometimes multiple timesper day.
I live in Texas but my mom doesnot live in Texas.
She lives on her own.
She's fairly active.
She does all of the things.
(04:14):
This one day we had spoken.
She'd gone to the eye doctorand she's telling me the results
of what the doctor said.
Everything was fine.
Later that evening I tried heragain.
I didn't get her but I figuredmaybe she just went to sleep.
Later on that evening I got acall from my cousin who lives
about five or 10 minutes away.
The minute I got the call Iknew something was wrong.
(04:35):
I stayed on the line probablyfor about two or three hours.
The fire and police personneland neighbors were trying to get
the door off to get into thehome my mom had.
She'd been speaking to a friendof hers on the phone and the
friend realized that her speechwas significantly slurred and
(04:56):
she wasn't really making muchsense.
So we're thankful that thatfriend had the presence of mind
to call my cousin and then hewas able to go down and, with
the fire folks and theparamedics get the door open,
get her into, get her some help,get her to the hospital.
I flew down, stayed with her inthe ICU for about three days.
My brother came down.
(05:17):
We stayed with her for aboutthree months.
We're thankful that she had afull recovery from the stroke.
So that was a few years ago.
Now fast forward to a few weeksago, it might have been a month
or two ago actually, I don'tremember.
Anyway, I was trying to reachmy mom.
What we did as a result of thatbecause that was so scary was
we put cameras throughout mymom's home just so we can keep
(05:40):
an eye on.
You know, if anything happenedof the sort again.
So I typically would give her acall, like I usually do.
I didn't get her.
So I remember she said she wasgoing to go to church.
So I said, okay, maybe she's achurch.
I checked the cameras butentire system was down and that
was really scary to me becauseI'd never.
I'd never seen that.
And I believe one of thecameras goes down.
(06:02):
We get notifications on ourphones telling us and usually
it's like a brief outage goesback up.
Entire system was down so hadno visibility on anything.
So yo a little concerned, butnot terribly concerned Called
back and another couple of hoursdid not get a response, Said,
okay, maybe she stayed at churchfor lunch.
That happens sometimes.
(06:22):
I'm really running throughvarious scenarios trying to calm
myself down, but getting moreand more nervous as time goes by
.
Riched out to my brother hey,have you heard from mom?
No, no, didn't speak to hersince yesterday.
Don't know what's going on.
Okay, trying not to alarm himeither, a couple more hours, and
so now it's been like all dayand I'm starting to freak out.
(06:43):
So I reach out to my cousin andI just say, hey, did you see mom
at church today?
Oh, yeah, she was at church andshe went home.
Okay, great, have you spoken toher since she got home?
No, so I'm trying not to alarmhim, but I'm like, look,
somebody needs to go and checkon mom.
I don't have visibility intothe home.
I'm freaking out.
So I call him back and I waslike hey, just, I haven't been
(07:08):
able to reach her all day.
I don't know what's going on.
Please, please, please, sendsomebody by.
You know, one of the kids cango by and just see if she's okay
.
Temeslai, are gonna call frommy mom, right.
She's like oh, I forgot thephone in my purse.
I came home from church, Iforgot the phone in my purse and
you know, it was buzzed.
She turns it off.
She turns the ringer off whenshe's in church, so she wasn't
(07:29):
hearing it and accidentally, Iguess, she unplugged the whole
camera system.
So that explains the wholething.
But those six hours were soharrowing for me, so scary, so
terrifying.
And when it turned out to benothing, I really started to
just examine, like, okay, whywas I so afraid?
(07:50):
I just took a lot of time tostop and really reflect on what
that meant, right.
And so what I came up with wasthat obviously, that was a
fear-based thing.
Fear is real, right, it's anatural emotion.
But what I realized as a resultof that was that a lot of my
decisions were fear-based orcoming from a very fearful place
(08:12):
, and that was a change that Iwanted to make in my life.
And so, as a result of that, Iwent back and just looked at
other fear-based decisions thatI'd made in my life, in my
business, et cetera, et cetera,and just did a full sweep.
And so that's where I am.
Today is right.
Now I'm really examining mylife going deep to make sure
(08:33):
that decisions that I make arenot informed only by fear.
Max Chopovsky (08:39):
So that's my story and you're in that process
now of the re-examination.
Sian Morson (08:44):
It is a process, not an event.
It's not something that justhappens because you realize how
deep-rooted that fear is andit's pervasive throughout your
life, and so that is where I amtoday is really trying to take a
step back and understand themeaning behind some of the
decisions that I have made andwill continue to make throughout
(09:07):
my life.
Max Chopovsky (09:08):
Well, first of all, thank God, your mom's okay.
Sian Morson (09:11):
Yes.
Max Chopovsky (09:13):
That is crazy.
Where does she live?
Sian Morson (09:17):
She lives in Florida.
Max Chopovsky (09:18):
In Florida by herself.
Sian Morson (09:20):
Yes.
Max Chopovsky (09:21):
And how old is she?
She just turned 74, last weekit's like you, installed the
cameras specifically because ofwhat happened, and then she just
unplugged the cameras byaccident, used the phone in her
purse with the ringer off byaccident.
Sian Morson (09:37):
Like all of these things conspire.
Yes.
Max Chopovsky (09:41):
It's like when Chernobyl exploded.
They're like every one of thesethings.
It wasn't any one thing thathappened.
It was literally multiplethings that all had to happen
together in that sequence forthis disaster to strike.
And that's exactly whathappened with your mom, and the
craziest thing about it is shewas completely oblivious the
(10:03):
whole time.
Sian Morson (10:04):
Completely oblivious, like when the kids
showed up.
She was like what are you guysdoing here?
Max Chopovsky (10:10):
Did you have some choice words for her when you
finally talked to her?
Sian Morson (10:14):
No, I was just relieved, really, and we
chuckled about it because, toyour point, it is the perfect
storm of these cascading eventsthat led to this, so learning
experience as well.
She was like why were youworried?
It's like, why was I worried?
This has happened before.
Max Chopovsky (10:38):
I was gonna say you're probably.
I could imagine the thoughtrunning through your mind of
okay, if there's a power outage,I have to install a generator
and probably run some extracables.
And if I do that, what are theother points of failure that
could happen?
And your mom's like, hey, goodluck with that generator, girl,
I just unplugged it, my bad.
Sian Morson (10:56):
I know she's like it's not that deep.
It's not that deep.
Max Chopovsky (11:01):
Nothing wrong with the system.
What I find interesting isthere are these pivotal moments
in our lives that we go through,that, when these pivotal
moments occur, we have anopportunity, and there's an
active component to thatopportunity and a passive
component.
And the passive component ishey, it has been presented to us
(11:24):
and we can either recognize itor not.
The active component is thatrecognition.
And then what do we do about it?
What do we do with thisinformation that we've been
presented with?
And so I feel like, so I'mreading the Rick Rubin book that
he wrote about creating artCreativity.
Sian Morson (11:44):
Yes, it's so good, so good.
Max Chopovsky (11:47):
I literally am just reading.
The chapters are so short.
When I started reading the book, I thought this is crazy.
I'm going to get through like10 chapters and one sitting and
I only get through one becauseit's so deep I have to go back
and reread it.
And so one of the things hetalks about is when you're
creating art, as an artist, youare just an antenna and a
(12:07):
recipient of inspiration, but itdoesn't end there.
Once you receive theinformation, you have to take it
in, hold on to it, interpret itand then do something about it.
And that's what you did.
And so you said hey, Iunderstand, as a byproduct of
this reflection, as a result ofthis reflection, that I have
(12:27):
been making a lot of fear-baseddecisions and so a lot of people
I feel like wouldn't do that.
What do you think made you sortof recognize that and
interpreted as something thatyou needed to take action on?
Sian Morson (12:42):
It's a good question.
I think it comes from a largerexamination of my life that I've
been going through.
I've been just sort of steppingback and taking stock.
I've been thinking a lot latelyabout legacy what do I want
people to feel, to think, whenI'm no longer here?
(13:02):
What do I want my legacy to be?
And I think that was parcel ofit.
I don't know if it actually cameabout, because I have actually
recently read the Rick Rubinbook as well, and so that has
certainly been food for thought,and so I've been doing a lot of
self-examination, and so what Icame up with was that obviously
(13:26):
, I was afraid that somethingwas wrong.
I was afraid that something hadhappened to my mom, I was
afraid that she had passed.
But in the larger scheme ofthings, as I think about things
like legacy, it's like none ofus are getting out of here alive
.
This is an inevitability.
And so what was more importantfor me to focus on?
(13:47):
Yes, certainly, if somethinghad happened to my mom, I would
be sad.
If my mom passes, I would bedistraught, but it would be more
beneficial for me to thinkabout her legacy and what she's
passed on to me and who I ambecause of her.
And so why focus on thenegative in an instance like
that?
Why run to fear as opposed tothinking about better things or
(14:11):
more positive things?
And so that sort of filteredout.
It started with just that, butthen I just really wanted to
examine what other decisionshave I been making that were
fueled by fear?
And when you really sort ofpeel back those layers, I was
like, holy hell, there are a lotof decisions that I've made
that have been based on fear.
(14:32):
How could I revisit thosesituations and learn and not
replicate?
Because I think once you do it,you keep doing it.
You know what I mean, whetheror not you realize, it just sort
of becomes a habit, whetherthose opportunities that I may
have had, that I've passed up onand I've told myself it was
another reason.
But maybe deep down I wasreally afraid and I found a lot
(14:54):
of those things.
So it was really, it wasfrightening, but it definitely
presented that opportunity todig a little deeper.
And yeah, I don't know if thebook was a part of it.
I have been reading.
I've been reading not just thatbook but other books that have
been talking about.
Sort of like on theconsciousness scale, fear is
really at the bottom.
(15:14):
You know what I mean?
It's not.
It's like a negative thing tobe driven by fear.
And so what you want to do isyou really want to raise your
consciousness so that,ultimately, you're not making
decisions that are rooted infear.
And so I just I'm glad that therealization came to me in the
end.
It certainly came by a tragicevent, but I'm glad that it did,
(15:37):
and I'm thankful and I'munfortunately not tragic in the
end.
Yes, yes, that's true, that'strue.
Tragic in my mind and that'sthe other thing is how we psych
ourselves out by just thinkingof things that are not
necessarily positive.
So, yes, I am certainlygrateful.
Max Chopovsky (15:52):
The hardest thing about decisions that are driven
by fear is exactly as you said.
It's not obvious sometimes thatthey're driven by fear and you
really have to peel back thelayers of the onion and go into
this place.
That is not illuminated most ofthe time and, as I like to say,
(16:15):
the good stuff happens in thedeepest, darkest places.
That's where the secrets are,that's where the revelations are
.
But people just have a realdiscomfort around going to those
places because the path ofleast resistance is to say, hey,
this is how I've always donethings.
(16:37):
It seemed to work fairly wellfor me to date.
Why change now?
Because for most people, goodenough is good enough, but they
say that good is the enemy ofthe great, and sometimes it just
takes a massive personal crisisor trauma to nudge you to
(17:03):
reconsider your philosophy oryour drivers.
Absolutely yeah, Okay, so youmentioned legacy and I'm curious
what do you want your legacy tobe?
Sian Morson (17:14):
I don't know.
I'm still figuring it out and Ithink I was listening to your
introduction of me and you'reright, I have done so many
things and it's so varied.
There are times when I'm like,well, maybe I should have
focused on one thing so that Icould be the very best at one
thing.
But I'm sort of like I've gotmy hands in all these different
(17:38):
pots and I don't know if thatmakes.
I don't know if that makeslegacy something easy to point
to or if it makes it a littlemore challenging.
I'm inclined to think it makesit a little more challenging,
but I haven't yet settled onwhat I want my legacy to be.
I've been talking to a lot ofmy close friends about that and
they're like you, probablyalready have left your legacy
and you don't even know it.
(17:59):
But when I think of legacy, Ijust think of meaning, I think
of influencing other people andsomething that lives on way past
me, and I don't even know thatI've done that thing yet.
I might have, but I'm stilllooking for it.
Max Chopovsky (18:14):
Well, there are a handful of people every
generation, and sometimes evenrare than that, sometimes even
more seldom that leave what isan undisputable legacy.
Elon Musk is a perfect example.
How many industries has hechanged?
How many lives has he changed?
But for most of us I wasthinking about this the vast
(18:38):
majority of people are forgottenthree generations after they're
gone.
If you look at the day of thedead as an example, or Coco,
like, the concept behind thatmovie is you die your first
death.
You die your second death whenyou're forgotten, and so there's
this focus.
There's this focus on keepingpeople alive through their
(18:59):
memories, and I think that's awonderful concept.
In reality, though, I justthink back to my great
grandmother great grandfather Iknow very little about them and
my grandfather, who was anincredible, incredible man.
He was a poet and journalist,and when Chernobyl, as I
mentioned, when it exploded, wewere evacuated I was living in
(19:21):
Kiev at the time.
They sent him to the reactorbecause he was a journalist and
he witnessed the devastationfirst hand.
So he's lived an incrediblelife.
He's published so many books,but with every generation, that
fades a little bit, and what Ithink legacy is, at least in
(19:46):
terms of a lasting impact iswhen you create something that
outlives you, when you createart, whether it's books or
paintings or music or whateverthe case may be but something
that people can point to afteryou're gone and say that was to
Rick Rubin's point, that wastheir perspective on the world,
(20:08):
that was an embodiment of theirvalues.
But that's a legacy for peopleoutside of your immediate family
.
The legacy to me, as I thinkabout and I don't have it
figured out, but I do thinkabout this stuff quite a bit the
legacy to me maybe it's not thenumber of people you impact,
(20:29):
maybe it's not the quantity ofthe impact, maybe it's the
quality of the impact, maybeit's I don't have to impact a
thousand people, I'm just notgoing to have that reach.
But what if my three daughtersremember me as an incredibly
present father?
And even if my legacy fades twoor three generations down the
road, they will remember me andthey will be like he was there
(20:54):
to make dinner and play with usand whatever.
And maybe that's what it is.
But it's so hard, especiallywhen you're younger, and even
harder, I think even hard whenyou start to age, to try to
predict that because there's somany variables, it's so unknown.
Sian Morson (21:10):
I think the way that I might choose to deal with
it is to not think about it somuch, just to continue doing
what I'm doing.
Because, you're right, I neverunderstood the term.
You can't be it unless you seeit.
I never understood it untilsomebody said it to me and then
I was like, well, really, Ireally influenced you in that
(21:32):
way.
I was like, yeah, I just neverseen anybody like you, I've
never seen a black woman start amobile development firm and not
be an engineer.
Do you know what I mean?
And I was like, oh, I guessthat does make sense and I'm
thankful that I've had apositive impact.
And so maybe it is in thoselittle moments, maybe it is
those one-on-one experienceswhere we don't even think of
(21:55):
that really probably matter morethan we think they do and
actually contribute in a largerway towards our legacy.
Whatever that may be Because,yes, I've written books, like
you said, I make art.
All that stuff will outlive meand will last longer than I will
.
But for me I think it's thoseintimate moments where you get
(22:18):
the chance to hear from someonehow you've personally impacted
them, and probably those meanmore to me.
Let's just put it that way.
Max Chopovsky (22:27):
Not quantity, but quality.
Sian Morson (22:29):
Exactly.
Max Chopovsky (22:31):
By the way, to your earlier point of is the
approach of doing all of thesedifferent things, kind of a
portfolio lifestyle, a betterapproach than focusing on one
thing?
Or maybe different, but betterfor you?
I can tell you, as somebodywho's done a lot of different
things, that if I only stuckwith one thing, I would have an
(22:56):
acidic sense of regret thatwould eat away at me every
single day.
I went back to do that onething.
It would be toxic to me.
It would be toxic.
There are people in this worldlike Kobe Bryant, for example.
He knew what he wanted to do.
Sian Morson (23:17):
Right, he was focused.
Max Chopovsky (23:19):
That was his box.
That was until the day he died.
That was it.
There were variations on how heapproached it.
He had other initiatives thathe worked on, but it was all
around basketball.
I am not that fortunate.
I'm not fortunate enough toknow exactly what I want to do,
any one thing, but I feel likeworking on all these other
(23:41):
things.
If you have something evenresembling a gift for those
other things, then you owe it toyourself and the rest of the
world, whoever might come across.
Whatever you make, even if it'sone person that says, hey, as a
black woman who started acompany and you're not an
engineer, you've inspired me.
That makes that entire ventureworth it.
Sian Morson (24:03):
I agree.
I used to look at people thatway and be super envious that
they could focus on that onething they're like.
You're right.
I think people like us are justbuilt differently.
I could never just focus on onething.
Even as I sit in my office,I've got at least three things
that I'm doing at any given time.
(24:24):
This is a rare moment where Iam focused on one thing.
I usually do have multiplethings going at the same time,
but that makes me feel alive.
That makes me happy.
That is how I operate.
At my best is when I do have afew things going.
I'm also interested in so manythings I don't know how to.
(24:46):
The world is so full ofwonderful things that I've not
yet learned about.
Why live in myself to just onething, right?
Max Chopovsky (24:52):
You're speaking my language.
Our ADD is a gift to the worldin some way.
Sian Morson (25:00):
I've started to embrace that.
Actually, before I was like ohno, no, no, I'm not.
But now I'm like well, maybethere is something to the fact
that I might have a touch of ADDor something like that, because
it's just how I am wired, I'membracing it and I am extremely
productive, let's just say, as aresult of it.
Max Chopovsky (25:20):
I have a heavy touch of ADD.
The only way for me to be ableto function as a productive
human and member of society isto surround myself with projects
that interest me.
Again, going back to our NorthStar for the Hour, which is Rick
Rubin, he would say you followthe seeds that have promised,
(25:40):
the seeds that are interestingto you.
The order is the art yourselfand then the audience.
Yeah, absolutely absolutely so,Sean.
Let's go back to the story youtold for a minute.
What is the moral of that story?
Sian Morson (25:57):
That's a good question.
I think the moral of the storyis that fear can't be the
motivator for anything and livein the present.
Actually, I think that might bethe better moral is to live in
the present as opposed to thefuture or the past Can't control
either of those.
All you have is today.
(26:18):
So I think that's the moral.
For me, that's a greatobservation, because it's hard.
Max Chopovsky (26:24):
As a human, that's what separates us from
other species is the ability tothink about the past and the
ability to envision a differentfuture.
So here we are tellingourselves to be like the simpler
creatures in the world byfocusing on the present.
But maybe my dog is ontosomething, maybe the fact that
(26:47):
when he's playing with me,nothing else exists in the world
.
Sian Morson (26:49):
Nothing else yeah.
Max Chopovsky (26:51):
Damn, that's a hell of a feeling, you or?
Sian Morson (26:53):
I are not like that , though right, Because we're
doing something right now butthinking about something else.
So it is a constant, constantchallenge, but I think a worthy
one too.
Max Chopovsky (27:04):
Agreed.
Agreed because we're alwayssearching for something that
excites us.
Sian Morson (27:09):
It's the search, it is the constant search.
Yes, absolutely.
Max Chopovsky (27:13):
There's nothing wrong with the search.
So you have both heard and toldsome great stories in your day.
So what in your mind do reallygood stories have in common?
Sian Morson (27:28):
I think good stories have a personal bent to
them.
Telling a story from your ownpersonal POV, I think, helps to
pull the listener in.
I think a good story has tohave beginning, middle and an
end.
That might just be my filmschool education talking, but I
(27:51):
have been programmed to believethat stories must have a
beginning, a middle and an end.
And a moral is always nice too,I think, as much as you can
relate the story to the listener.
Max Chopovsky (28:02):
It's got to be a predictable structure.
Sian Morson (28:04):
Yeah, I think that stories, if they're too heady,
you lose your listener.
So I think the more that youcan personalize your story so
that your listener can relate ona very intimate level, those
are good aspects of storytelling.
Max Chopovsky (28:21):
So then, on the other side of that, what makes
for a good storyteller?
Sian Morson (28:27):
Clarity.
I think that's the big one.
People have to be able tounderstand what you're saying.
So I think it's important tospeak slowly and clearly and
choose your words with intention.
Those all play into the story100% and the experience right,
because you are taking the useron a journey of sorts.
(28:49):
They need to want to come withyou on that journey.
So it is incumbent upon thestoryteller to make sure that
the user wants that you don'tlose them halfway through.
You've got to keep them on thejourney the entire way.
Max Chopovsky (29:02):
That's right.
That's right.
They have to be engaged.
Yeah, absolutely.
Does every story have to have amoral?
Sian Morson (29:11):
No, I don't think so, because I don't know that
the storyteller sets the moral.
The moral is what I get from itas a listener and that may it
may just be a good laugh.
Right, that doesn't have to bea moral, or I could find deeper
meaning.
But I don't think every storyhas to have a moral.
Max Chopovsky (29:30):
Interesting.
Perhaps the deeper meaningbecomes the moral.
Sian Morson (29:34):
Maybe, but maybe not too right.
I mean, when I meet up withfriends, sometimes we're just
shooting the shit and we're justtelling stories.
There's no, but it's a part ofthe overall experience and it
brings us closer together, butthere's no huge takeaway.
But sometimes there is.
I don't know, I don't know, butI would say no.
Max Chopovsky (29:55):
So you mentioned some books that you're reading.
What are some of the sort ofmost impactful books that you've
read?
Sian Morson (30:05):
We've already talked about the Rick Rubin book
, but as a companion to thatthere is a book called the Dau
of Wu written by the RZA, who isalso a music producer, I'm sure
you know, from Wu Tang Clan,and I bought that book last year
at South by and I never read it, and I have been.
(30:25):
I have tons and tons of booksin my Amazon shopping cart and I
told myself the last couple ofmonths that I'm going to read
all of the books that I havefirst before ordering new ones,
and so that book was sittingaround and I picked it up and
it's actually a really good readbecause he recounts his life,
(30:46):
you know, growing up in Brooklynand Staten Island, and you know
he tells the whole story of howhe came together with folks
like Method man and the entiregroup and ODB and all of that.
But then there are sort ofmorals that are rooted in Taoism
and Buddhism and Easternreligions riddled throughout the
book and it is so amazing.
(31:08):
It was not what I was expecting.
I was pleasantly surprised andI think that's a fantastic.
It's a great book.
I don't know how many peopleare even familiar with it,
because I did not even know thatRZA wrote a book, but it is a
really, really, really good book.
It's an easy read too.
Maybe it's really thin, so it'seasy to get through, and maybe
a day or two depending on howmuch you get through it, but I
(31:30):
highly recommend that.
Max Chopovsky (31:32):
Well, I can tell you, just because it's a thin
book doesn't make it an easy oneto read, because I just read
it's true Michael Eric Dyson'sbook about Jay-Z's lyrics and it
was a tiny little thing but ittook me weeks to get through it
because it is dense.
Sian Morson (31:49):
Really, oh wow, I'll have to add that to my list
.
Max Chopovsky (31:54):
Oh, definitely the funny thing about Wu Tang.
Incarcerated Scarfaces by RayKwan was one of the first rap
songs that I ever heard.
This is like early, early 90s,right after we moved to America.
Yeah, Do you remember that song?
It's such a good track.
Sian Morson (32:11):
I don't actually.
Max Chopovsky (32:13):
Oh, that drum beat is so good.
Sian Morson (32:16):
Fun fact is that I grew up on Staten Island, so
when, I came from the VirginIslands.
We landed on Staten Island andyou want to talk about a culture
shock, it was like whoa, it waslike you know, just first of
all being in New York City, butworking class Italian, irish,
blacks, everybody sort of oh, itwas wild.
(32:39):
It was really interesting.
So I had a affinity for the WuTang when they came out because
I was like you never hearanything about Staten Island.
It's like nobody.
Yes, it's a whole differentworld, to be honest, growing up
there.
So it's really really pleasedwhen they came out.
Max Chopovsky (32:55):
And they rapped it big right Because, like Nas
was rapping Queens, you had BigE and Jay-Z rapping Brooklyn,
and so who was?
I think Big Joe was the Bronx,I think, and so like who was
doing Staten Island?
So there had to be somebodyhere comes the Wu yeah exactly.
Oh my gosh.
Sian Morson (33:12):
Exactly.
Max Chopovsky (33:14):
So last question for you If you could say one
thing to your 20-year-old self,what would it be?
Sian Morson (33:23):
It would be.
Oh, the places you will go.
Like.
I think I've always been sortof a bit of a loner, even
through high school, and youknow I wanted to go to film
school.
I went to film school.
Even in film school I was a bitof a loner, which is odd
because film is a collaborativeart, so you literally could not
make your film alone.
You needed people around you.
(33:44):
But I was still very I was veryshy, very sort of, you know,
closed off.
And I remember I got my firstapartment.
It was on Avenue B, between 6thand 7th and Manhattan.
I, you know, walked to school,go to work, walk home and I,
just I was in my head a lot justthinking about my God, what is
my life going to be like?
Am I going to stay in New York?
(34:04):
Am I going to leave?
Am I, what am I going to do?
Am I going to end up in thefilm industry?
And so I could have neverimagined everything that I've
done when I was that that youknow young person in New York,
just sort of starting out mylife and trying to chart a
course for myself.
I could never have imaginedthat I would have lived in
(34:26):
London, traveled all over theworld, spoken all over the world
in front of hundreds andthousands of people, written to
books you know just everything.
No clue.
You have no clue.
You know.
You think, oh my God,everything is so small.
But it's really really not.
And so I think, yeah, all theplaces you'll go is the one
thing I would say to that younggirl.
She had no clue, she had noidea where she would end up.
Max Chopovsky (34:49):
But some timeless Dr Seuss wisdom.
Sian Morson (34:53):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah.
Thank you so much, Bye.
Max Chopovsky (34:57):
Do you know who else was in his head a lot, as
he was taking publictransportation in New York Is
Lynn Manuel Miranda.
Sian Morson (35:07):
Ah yes yeah, yeah.
Fun fact is the MirandaFoundation is actually an
investor in Starfish.
Max Chopovsky (35:14):
No way.
Sian Morson (35:15):
Yeah, absolutely yeah, so it's a wonderful full
circle moment there.
Max Chopovsky (35:19):
Oh my gosh.
I reached out to his team toget him on the show because I'm
ambitious like that, and Iliterally wrote him.
I wrote this massive rapmassive.
It was like two pages long,really yeah and they just
responded and they said that wasa very creative note, but Lynn
Manuel is too busy with hisproduction schedule.
I was like damn, oh man so goodthough.
Sian Morson (35:42):
Wow, I'd love to read that.
Max Chopovsky (35:45):
All of a sudden, it's no problem.
Yeah, all of a sudden it's whenwe get off.
Sian Morson (35:48):
I mean, I remember where I was when I first heard
the soundtrack to Hamilton and Iwas just like my mind was
completely blown, justcompletely blown.
Just how do you take a storylike that and turn it into like
hip hop?
But then, when you reallylisten to it, this guy was a
student of hip hop.
(36:09):
Like, without a doubt, the waythat he crafted those, the
storytelling was just brilliant,completely brilliant.
Max Chopovsky (36:18):
The fact that he's doing.
You can divide Disney moviesinto the before Lynn Manuel era
and the after Lynn Manuel era,because everything from like the
Maui's rap and Moana to all ofthe actual songs and chord
progressions in Kanto.
Sian Morson (36:39):
Oh, uh-huh.
Max Chopovsky (36:40):
Like all of that.
I remember there was one timehe was on stage presenting at
one of the award shows and hewas introducing something about
Moana and he said this line thatwas something like with her
eyes on the horizon line, and Iwas just like that's just
incredible.
(37:00):
Like he repeats the same two orthree syllables across multiple
words and it all makes sense.
It was just don't get mestarted on it.
Sian Morson (37:09):
Well, we'll have to have a whole separate
conversation about, aboutEmmanuel and his brilliance.
Max Chopovsky (37:14):
That'll have to happen.
Yeah, he's another guy who'sgoing to leave a legacy that
will long, long outlive him.
Sian Morson (37:20):
Long outlive him Can you imagine, without a doubt
.
Max Chopovsky (37:25):
Well, that does it Really.
Wow, I know, flew by, didn't it?
Sian Morson (37:32):
It did fly by, yeah .
Max Chopovsky (37:34):
I think it's rare because a conversation where
you are actually in the momentand you're actually engaged and
the other person is actuallyengaged is that kind of rare
conversation and makes the timefly by.
Sian Morson (37:49):
And I just want to say thank you.
This is.
It's such a brilliant idea fora podcast.
I listened to tons and tons ofpodcasts and I'm actually
recording my own now, but thisis such a brilliant idea.
It's really, really clever andso so smart.
I love it.
Love it, yeah.
Max Chopovsky (38:06):
I appreciate it, sean.
Well, it was absolutely anhonor to have you on the show.
Sean Morson, entrepreneur,investor, thought leader,
community builder, polymath ofthe highest caliber, thank you.
Sian Morson (38:22):
Thank you for having me, Max.
Max Chopovsky (38:25):
For show notes and more head over to MossPodorg
.
Find us on Apple Podcasts,spotify, wherever you get your
podcast on.
This was Moral of the Story.
I'm Max Jupowski.
Thank you for listening.
Talk to you next time.
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