March 4, 2025 • 47 mins
This podcast episode delves into the nuanced realm of college admissions, emphasizing the vital importance of authenticity in the application process. We engage in a profound discussion with Dyllen Nellis, a distinguished college admissions coach and founder of Next Gen Admit, who elucidates how students can effectively communicate their personal narratives and values in their applications. Dyllen advocates for a holistic approach, underscoring that grades and test scores, while significant, do not singularly determine a student’s admission prospects; rather, it is the unique story each applicant brings that truly captivates admissions committees. Throughout our dialogue, we explore strategies for nurturing intellectual curiosity in students, fostering their individual passions, and guiding them in articulating their authentic selves. By the conclusion of the episode, we aim to equip parents and students alike with invaluable insights into navigating the complexities of the college admission landscape.
The discussion unfolds around the challenges and nuances of the college admissions process, particularly emphasizing the transformational journey students encounter while preparing their applications. The speakers reflect on the significance of authentic self-discovery in crafting college essays, noting that the admissions process is not merely a bureaucratic hurdle but a profound opportunity for personal growth. In sharing insights from their conversations, they highlight the misconception that academic grades and test scores are the sole determinants of admission success. Instead, they advocate for a holistic approach, which prioritizes the articulation of personal narratives and values unique to each applicant. The episode serves as a guide for both students and parents, encouraging a shift in perspective towards viewing college admissions as an exploration of identity rather than a mere checklist of achievements.
Takeaways:
- The importance of being judicious in podcast selection to avoid political overload is paramount.
- Engaging in meditation and embracing quiet reflection can greatly enhance one's mental well-being.
- It is essential to recognize that one's narrative and personal experiences hold significant weight in college applications.
- Students should pursue their intellectual curiosity above all else to cultivate a compelling college application.
- The narrative conveyed in college essays must authentically reflect the student's values and experiences, rather than what they think admissions officers want to see.
- Creating a strong college application involves developing a unique story that highlights individual passions and contributions to the academic community.
Links referenced in this episode:
- nextgenadmit.com
- nextgenadmit.com/masterclass
- Dyllen Nellis on YouTube
Connect with Heather:
Join the Kind Space on Patreon
Give a copy of Heather's book, Parenting with Pride.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:13):
Welcome back.
I am really glad you are here.
In recent weeks, I've becomereally judicious about which podcasts
I listen to and when.
And I've learned to reallyhonor the signals my body and mind
give when I am on politicaloverload or I'm feeling overwhelmed,
(01:35):
or when I'm beginning to slideinto a dark place.
I'm beginning to spend a lotmore time in the morning meditating
and just being still and present.
And I'm working on ending eachday with something that allows my
mind and body to relax insteadof keeping it completely jacked up
(01:58):
by endlessly scrolling until Ican't keep my eyes open any longer.
Some days that means I'mreading a book, others that means
I'm watching a show.
And I'm currently working myway toward hopping in the sauna or
taking a bath at the end ofthe day because those just feel like
the ultimate bedtime routine.
(02:19):
I'm searching for balance, asI know that you are too.
We want to stay informed, wewant to take action, and we want
to stay well because we knowthis is a marathon beyond the Breath
My Friday informal podcast hasbeen an incredible way for me to
share my thoughts on current events.
(02:42):
Let me know if you have topicsyou'd like for me to address.
I love hearing what'sresonating with you.
I really contemplated when toschedule today's guest in my podcast
release calendar because hertopic is one that really might be
more relevant in a month or two.
However, I also think thatpositivity keeps us hopeful and discussing
(03:07):
subjects other than politicskeeps us moving forward with confidence
and courage.
I also love any opportunity touplift queer voices, young voices,
women's voices, and today Iget to do all three.
A few weeks ago, I had theopportunity to chat with a most impressive
(03:29):
young adult who isaccomplishing really cool things
in the world while living sobeautifully and authentically.
Dylan Nellis is a collegeadmissions coach and founder of Next
Gen Admit.
After gaining acceptance toevery school she applied to and attending
Stanford University, Dylanstarted NextGen Admit to help high
(03:52):
school students effectivelyconvey their personal values, authentic
experiences and potential instandout college applications.
Her students come from aroundthe globe and have been accepted
to the country's mostcompetitive universities.
Dylan has a special gift ofbeing able to connect with teens
(04:15):
and help them peel back thelayers and share authentically.
Parents of high schoolstudents listen carefully to her
step, her tips, and then reachout to her.
She is a breath of fresh airand she will help you and your child
during a time that is evenmore chaotic than ever before.
(04:39):
Welcome back, everyone.
I am so glad that you are hereand I am really, really delighted
to welcome Dylan to the showtoday to discuss a topic that we've
never discussed here before,which I cannot believe.
In five and a half years, wehave not touched on the college process
because we talk about collegea lot on the show.
(05:04):
Connor has gone through college.
Two, three of my kids are,have gone through the process since
I've been doing the show.
So I'm really excited towelcome you on and talk about what
you do in the world and howyou have kind of a unique view of
the whole college process.
(05:24):
So thank you for being here.
Yay.
Thank you for having me.
I'm super excited to dive intothis stuff.
Well, I loved when you reached out.
You were so enthusiastic.
There was something that justspoke to me and I thought, okay,
you have to be on the show.
Parents are going to reallyrelate to you and think that you
(05:47):
have a very unique combinationof, of traits and what you do and
how you do it.
And you've just lived this experience.
I think you're around Connor'sage, maybe a little bit older, and
so you're not far removed fromdoing all of this yourself.
So you have a very deepunderstanding of how this works.
So why don't we start with youjust giving a brief.
(06:08):
This is what I do.
This is what my company is.
This is why I'm so passionateabout it.
Yeah.
So I'm a college admissions coach.
I help high achieving studentsget into their dream schools.
I tend to work with studentswho really want to get into the top,
top universities and I helpthem get there.
I, I think what would behelpful is if I backtrack and give
(06:30):
you some background on my story.
So I, when I was applying tocollege, that was in 2018.
Yeah.
I did not know what to do at all.
There was like barely any helpat my high school.
Just one college counselor,like the entire school.
And yeah, it wasn't a lot ofstrategy given there.
(06:53):
You know, college counselorswill often help with like, logistics,
side of things, or like fillout this form, but they don't tell
you.
Okay, here's actually thestrategy that it takes to get in,
especially the college essaystrategy, which is so important.
And so I had to do a lot ofthat work all on my own.
And I did a ton of researchonline and reading books and articles
(07:17):
and all these things and wasreally fascinated by this process
because it allowed me to learnso much about myself and the college
essay.
A lot of people will thinkthat it's like the worst thing ever.
And they'll come out of theprocess being like, oh, I hated that.
I never want to think aboutthe college process ever again.
(07:39):
But for me, I felt verydifferently because for not like
the first, like, kind of, itallowed me to really think about
who I was as a person and whatI wanted to contribute and what my
values were and what I'd gonethrough, what my experiences were.
And I had to understand myselfat such a deep level in order to
(08:01):
communicate that to somebody else.
And so I came out of theprocess being like, oh my God, I
know who I am now, and that'sso cool.
And I.
I now have a clearer directionof where I want to go in life.
I have more confidence in myself.
And I grew as a writer as wellbecause I was able to articulate
that in college essays.
(08:23):
And so anyways, I got acceptedinto every school that I applied
to.
I was very shocked.
Um, and I committed toStanford University.
So I did my four years of college.
However, I took a gap yearduring COVID So that was like right
after my freshman year ofcollege, you know, everything was
(08:45):
shut down.
I was like, no way, I'm notdoing online schools.
And then during that time whenI was just at home for a whole year
is when I actually startedthis business.
It started with me postingvideos on YouTube because I just
wanted to share what I'd learned.
And then so many people, like,really resonated with everything
(09:06):
that I was saying and waslike, oh my God, can you edit my
essay?
Can I hop on a call with you?
And at that time, I was notbusy at all because it was during
COVID so I was like, sure.
And then through that, Istarted to learn so much more through
replicating those results withother students and helping them discover
(09:27):
who they were as people andarticulating that.
And that was just so cool.
It lit me up.
And then I hired other peopleto help me so when I went back into
college, I wouldn't bestruggling so much, so ran a full
time company while in college.
That was very hard.
I can imagine.
(09:48):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
And then I just recentlygraduated in 2024, and now this is
what I do full time.
I help other people.
I love that.
What an empowering process.
Because having had four or myfourth, is a junior right now in
(10:08):
high school, and, and watchingthem and just knowing how overwhelming
that process can be, and it'sjust a tough time.
Like you are just as a humanbeing trying to figure out who you
are in this world and whereyou fit.
And when I, a million yearsago, was going into college, you
(10:29):
didn't necessarily need toknow exactly what you wanted to do.
Right.
You didn't need to make thatdecision before you got to college.
And that is being asked of youso much more now, or at least to
have a.
A general idea, have itnarrowed down, you know, however
you want to say that.
So I'm very curious about yourprocess and what you figured out.
(10:52):
And why don't we just talkabout first before we go into your
process, some of the mythsthat really cause parents anxiety
and that cause kids anxiety.
Cause I imagine they're different.
Yeah.
Well, I think one thing thatis probably common among both parents
and kids is that they thinkthat your grades and your test scores
(11:15):
are everything and, like, so focused.
All of us who, like, get goodgrades, get good grades, like, oh,
my God, I gotta be like, theworld is over.
I'm not gonna get into mydream school.
Let's.
Let's take a breath.
Because, yes, if you want togo to top school, obviously grades
(11:38):
are important.
And a lot of people who getinto these schools tend to have 4.0
GPA or above, or they'revaledictorian, whatever.
But the thing with that isthat the grades don't set you apart.
They're not the thing that'sactually going to get you in.
Like, sure, there's like abenchmark of the grades that you
(12:02):
should have, but also there iswiggle room, and you can look it
up, like the stats for whatkind of students get accepted to
the school.
You'll see you don't alwayshave to have the perfect grades or
the perfect scores becauseadmissions is holistic.
And holistic means they takeinto account many different factors
(12:24):
when reviewing yourapplication profile.
So no one factor is going tocompletely rule you out.
Necessary leaks.
So what I think and what Itell people is way more important
is your story.
Who you are as a personmatters so much.
Because sure, there are goingto be other people who have the same
(12:46):
grades as you, maybe even thesame extracurriculars, but nobody
has your lived experience andyour story and your unique values.
And so if you can focus onthat and really understand who you
are and be able to communicatethat in a very strategic yet authentic
(13:09):
way, then that's gonna be whatsets you apart.
Let's say that your child isreally wanting an IV or like, a higher
tier school.
Mm.
The grades have to be there inorder to get you to this next part.
(13:29):
Yes.
Or no.
Yes, yes, that is the truth.
But I think it's about likepriorities, I guess.
Especially if we're talkingabout like earlier in high school,
you know, not when you're asenior and you're actually ready
to start the application process.
But if you're thinking aboutthe development of a student during
high school.
Yes.
Try to get good grades.
(13:50):
Like, I'm not saying don't getgood grades, but I don't think that
you should like spend all ofyour time studying and sitting at
your desk and reading atextbook because you know, the next
important thing is extracurriculars.
You gotta build yourextracurricular profile.
And I also don't think thatnecessarily parents should force
(14:11):
a kid to do a certainextracurricular or what they think
will stand out when they don'tactually know.
The most important thing isnurturing a student's intellectual
curiosity.
Because intellectual curiosityis like the number one thing that
these top, top colleges look for.
(14:33):
And a lot of that comes fromintrinsic motivation.
Right.
They have to actually feel itinside of their gut, their heart
and be super interested inwhatever it is that they want to
pursue and do things relatedto that.
Now they don't necessarilyhave to know, like, this is what
I want my whole life to be inmy career.
(14:53):
I don't agree with that.
And I also understand thatpeople's lives change and that's
so normal.
Like at Stanford also sidetangent, like people change their
majors all the time, multiple times.
It's so normal.
So the point is, when you'rein high school, they want to band
in colleges, they want to seethat you're doing things that light
(15:15):
you up.
So if you are interested inlike computer science, for example,
or engineering, do little side projects.
Like it's totally cool tospend your time messing around on
the computer and making littlecoding projects or making little
robotics projects.
And then once you get yourskill, maybe try a summer program
related to that, maybe join aclub, maybe start your own club.
(15:37):
Like those are the things thatneed to happen throughout the high
school experience beforeyou're ready to actually create your
story.
Right, right.
I mean, this is, this isreally good advice for people who
have kids who are even inmiddle school still.
Yeah.
You know, it's really kind ofhelping your child be that well rounded
(15:58):
student and, and not pullingthem out of things that you may feel
are frivolous but actually arethings that the child feels passionately
about and could potentiallyset them apart as a student.
So I appreciate you saying that.
Yeah.
Can I jump in?
Actually yeah, of course.
(16:19):
About the, the term wellrounded student.
Oh, it, it's a tricky oneactually in the like college admissions
space.
Because I like the termactually, because it's like I, this
is my personal beliefs.
I think it is great for peopleto have skills and experiences in
many different areas.
And I am someone who is veryinterdisciplinary and I like to do
(16:42):
things in a lot of differentrealms as well.
However, another thing for topschool admissions is they tend to
like spiky applications morethan well rounded ones.
I put both of those in quotes.
Have you heard of that?
I haven't.
I would say explain what spiky means.
(17:04):
This is another misconception.
A lot of people think like,oh, that means I have to just do
one thing.
You know, if I've committedmyself to engineering, like all of
my extracurriculars have to beabout engineering.
I have to write my collegeessay about how I love engineering.
Like everything has to beabout one thing.
That's not the case.
Basically they do want to seethat you have a sense of direction,
(17:26):
kind of as we've been talkingabout, and that you're doing things
that you are curious about butgoing deep into them.
So it looks better if youspend, you know, several years in
a certain program or volunteeror project, whatever, like really
dedicating yourself becauseit's something that you're so into
(17:47):
and so passionate about andyou can grow and scale that project
and impact.
Lots of people, you know,bring, bring the scale wider in terms
of your impact and your reachversus oh, I'm just going to do a
couple volunteer hours hereand there and then I'm going to do
(18:07):
this random collab and thenI'm going to do this other thing
like that doesn't look as goodto top colleges to position this
in a positive light because Iknow it's like, gosh, then I can't
do a lot of things.
That's once again not exactlythe case.
It's that they don't want tosee that you're just doing a bunch
(18:27):
of random things because youthink that that's going to look good
on the application.
Right.
Well, that makes a thousandpercent sense and I think that I'm
glad you clarified thatbecause that is, I believe also to
be very, very important.
And I've watched with, youknow, each of my own kids as they've
(18:48):
all done very, very differentthings, but have made sure that they've
been things that they arereally, you know, like my one daughter
was in Science Olympiad forseven years.
She was dancer for A long time different.
They were very differentthings that she was doing, but she
was also, had been doing themfor a long time and was very dedicated
(19:12):
to each one and had spent alot of time with each one of them.
And then another one is very artistic.
Another one is like uberfocused on sports.
And so it's, it's funny tolike see.
And I actually was talking toa friend the other day and, and her
first child is just, she'sjust going through this process for
(19:32):
the first time and she, she'svery high achieving and she says,
you know, I'm looking at allthis stuff about my son and I'm wishing
that he hadn't dropped out ofthis and I wish he had kept with
this.
And I'm realizing howremarkably average my child is.
I was like, oh my God.
Just like, okay, there is aplace for everyone.
(19:54):
Like, I understand how youmight want your child.
And this and I think is a veryimportant thing that I'd love for
you to touch on where theparent so desperately wants their
child to go to a school that'smaybe up here because they did, or
that's what their focus hasbeen on the whole 18 years of their
(20:15):
child's life or whatever.
But the child is kind of like,I'm good here and I, I, I'm looking
at more of a wide view or whatever.
So I'd love to talk aboutlike, how to manage how a parent
can manage their own desireswhile help guide their child and
support their child throughthis process.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Oh, that's a really good pointto bring up because I've had parents,
you know, jump on a call withme and they're like, I want my kid
to go to a good school.
Okay, let's define what goodmeans, right?
Because so many schools are great.
Yes, great.
Just because, you know, itdoesn't have the brand name of Harvard
(21:01):
or Princeton, whatever,doesn't mean that it's not a great
school, that you're not goingto get an amazing education and that
wonderful opportunities willcome out of that.
That's not the case.
Like, of course you can.
It's, it's less about theschool, it's more about the person
and what they choose to dowith the opportunities and the resources
(21:22):
that they are given, you know,whether they take advantage of them.
And another thing aboutprestige is it's, it's more about
like the type of students thatthey accept versus the quality of
education.
I think I read that somewherethat talked about that in depth and
(21:44):
I thought that was really interesting.
And made sense.
It's like they're admittingstudents who are already achieving
at a certain level at age 17.
Right.
But it's correlation causation.
Like, point is, there's a lotof great education in many different
schools.
And I think what's mostimportant is for, I would say, both
(22:08):
actually the parent and thestudent to do a lot of research into
these colleges to see is thatactually what I want, is that aligned
with me, do they have theprograms that I want and will help
me succeed?
And I encourage students toget, like, really nitty gritty with
their research.
Like, look at the classes.
(23:24):
Read the description.
Look at who's teaching the classes.
What is that person done?
What you know, what kind ofwork do they have?
What kind of researchopportunities are there?
Does that align with what you want?
Oh, and also, like, the valuesof the school and the department
and their approach to teachingand learning.
Is that what you want?
(23:45):
Because if it's not, you don'thave to apply there.
Even if it's a top school.
That's totally fine.
Yeah, Yeah, I.
I appreciate that very, very much.
I think that is very, very important.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwriting these essays, because that
(24:05):
is a huge piece of.
Of what you do, and I thinkwhat differentiates.
And there are two things thatyou brought up that I think really
stood out to me.
One being the importance ofauthenticity along with the strategy.
(24:25):
And in that, being able tohelp guide the student to really.
And it's what you did.
It sounds like really guidingthat student to connect with their.
Their values and, like, beingable to see, like, wow, this is who
I am.
And those, like, really deeplyempowering moments.
(24:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think first, it's reallyeasy to get lost in the noise of
the college application process.
And there's so many people andthings telling you what to do as
a student.
You have your parents, like,you should do this, you should do
that.
You know, when they might notquite know also.
(25:07):
And then you have your collegecounselor telling you what to do.
Or if you, like, hired anoutside college consultant, they're
telling you what to do.
And then there's advice on theInternet telling you what to do.
And on TikTok.
Oh, my God, on TikTok, like,that's a whole world, too.
And a lot of people get theireducation and advice from there,
too.
So it gets really convolutedin a student's mind.
(25:32):
And then ultimately, what Isee a lot of students do is they
write what they think.
The admissions officer wantsto Hear, but they're not actually
writing a story that conveyswho they truly are.
Right.
And so I had a studentrecently got rejected from Stanford,
(25:53):
early restrictive action.
And she had, she had all thethings, you know, like the grades,
the extracurriculars.
And she was like, I don'tunderstand what happened.
And I read her essay andimmediately I knew because I've gotten
to this point where I candiagnose it in like literally a second.
(26:13):
I read her essay and basicallyshe was just writing what she thought
she should write, and she wasreciting a series of events from
her life that showed what shehad done, what she had achieved.
And by the end of theincident, I was like, okay, but I
didn't learn anything aboutwho you are.
(26:35):
Like, I know you started thisnon graduate, I know you're interested
in this specific major, but Ihave no idea why.
I don't really understand whatdrives you.
And what was crazy also is thefact that she actually worked with
an outside consultant.
Her family hired somebody elseto help her with this, but he barely
(26:57):
helped with that as well, clearly.
And like, it was not.
Did not provide the kind offeedback that you need for a top
school like Stanford.
It's just, it's so strategicat this point, which I have complicated
feelings about.
So basically I worked with herto first unpack who she was not.
(27:18):
Usually when I hop on a callwith a student like this, I'm not
like, okay, let's edit the essay.
You know, change a fewsentences, change a few words.
I'm like, no, no, no, we needto go back to the drawing board and
really like, figure out whatit is you're trying to get across.
What are you saying?
And so through this process,she learned so much more about who
(27:40):
she was.
And that was really cool.
I've had another student who,where I will ask, okay, why are you
interested in this major?
And they'll be like, oh, well,when I was little, I did this camp
and then I did this club and Idid this.
I was like, okay, okay, you'retelling me what you've done.
Let me ask you again.
Why are you interested in this subject?
Like, what about the subject itself?
(28:02):
Like, gets you going?
And then she again, like,answered with more things that she
had done.
I'm like, okay, yeah.
So we repeat that processuntil I really get to the core of
it, which a lot of times issomething very inherent to who they
are as a person.
Like, oh, I.
I like to solve problemsmethodically or like, I'm very organized
(28:23):
person, or I Like, looking atthe whole picture before I look at
the details, you know, like, certain.
There are certain values likethat, and we can figure out what
the unique one is for thestudent that comes from talking with
them and doing that process,which is really hard to do alone.
(28:44):
I will acknowledge, especiallywhen these students, you know, at
this age, you don't think alot about who you are as a person.
Well, I was gonna say that.
That is not something that Ifeel like kids are really challenged
on.
There's so much of, like, youneed to learn these subjects.
You need to figure out whatyou want to do.
(29:06):
You do these activities.
But there's not a lot of,like, reflective.
Why.
Why do I do better at maththan I do at English?
Or why do I really enjoy this.
This class over here insteadof this class?
Or.
Or this activity over this activity?
(29:29):
There's none of.
There's not really any of that.
(30:29):
And that's why I say, like,working with a college admissions
coach on your college essayscan feel a lot like therapy.
And when I tell people aboutwhat I do, they're like, oh, my God,
you're like a therapist.
I'm like, that's so funny,because, yes, we are, like, fully
unpacking somebody else'sstuff, and we're gonna get vulnerable.
(30:53):
They get really vulnerablewith me and telling me their entire
life story, their challenges,their childhood experiences, like,
the relationships that theyhave to the people in their lives
and all the things that haveshaped them to who they are today.
And that's why if a parent ora family is hiring a college admissions
coach, I think you have toreally trust them and really make
(31:19):
sure that this person, like,can hold that weight, I guess, and
that the child, moreimportantly, that the student feels
very comfortable being sovulnerable with this person, because
they're gonna get to know eachother real well.
Like, especially if they'reworking for.
Together for, like, months.
(31:39):
Right.
Right.
Well, I feel like you've.
You've hit on something that Idon't know that I've ever heard any
other person talk about before.
I haven't worked with any.
With a college admission coachfor any of my kids for various reasons.
Not because I think there'sanything wrong with them.
We just haven't.
(32:00):
But just thinking.
I don't know that I've everheard any of my friends who've used
them say anything like this.
Like, the personalrelationship, like that.
That level of getting to knowsomeone and allowing someone to guide
(32:21):
you through a process that canbe so vulnerable and should be so
vulnerable and should besomething that is deeply personal.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think people, yeah,people don't talk about that a lot.
And I'm, I've been trying tothink in my head like, why?
(32:42):
And part of it, part of itmight be just that like some college
consultants themselves, likedon't do this level of depth that
I do with my students.
And I've heard from otherpeople, you know, it's just like,
ah, check in meetings.
Oh, how's it going?
Good.
Okay, I can review your essay.
Yeah, whatever.
(33:03):
Once again, I'm like, oh my God.
That's not giving them thestrategy that they actually need
to.
Well, in the strategy and thistype of work actually you would save
time in the long run.
So much time.
Right.
Because then you're drillingdown on exactly what needs to be
done and you're not out there.
Like I feel like so much ofthis is just like throwing spaghetti
(33:25):
at the wall.
Right.
And seeing, seeing what sticks.
This is like a very targetedapproach, correct?
Yes, very targeted.
And that's why I tell studentslike, don't write the essay until
you first identify your values.
Identified.
What's the theme of my essay written?
(33:46):
A full on outline, like stepby step of what you're going to talk
about in every single paragraph.
Because this is storytelling.
It is, it is literally storytelling.
It's all about crafting a story.
There's different ways to doit and I have different strategies
that I teach.
There's gonna be this themethat's conveys your main values and
then how you tell the story isso important.
(34:09):
That's why I always, I don'treally believe in the idea of like
cliche essay topics or essaytopics that you should avoid.
Because I'm like, you can talkabout anything.
Well, not, not anything, anything.
But most things you can talkabout, it just depends on how you're
doing it.
Because you have to do it in away that is creative, unique and
(34:33):
authentic and that positionsyou as a standout applicant.
Oh, and this is, this istaking me to another point that I
would love to talk about.
Hero stories versus some stories.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Our understanding of whysuddenly people think that you need
a sub story to get into college.
(34:55):
Because it's not.
Colleges are admitting youbecause you experienced hardship.
Not like, oh my God, you wentthrough some horrible things.
Yay.
Like I'm gonna admit itdoesn't work like that.
They're admitting studentsbecause of the skills that they've
gained, the strengths thatthey have and the values that they
(35:16):
develop by persevering throughtheir challenges.
So the focus of your essayshould be your struggle, your struggles,
or your challenges.
Like, yes, a lot of times theprompt will ask you about challenges,
and that's.
Of course, they want to letterout your experiences, but that should
(35:37):
not be the focus of youressay, and that is not the theme
of your essay.
And a lot of times people willbe like, oh, I'm writing an essay
about blank.
Whatever that topic is.
People will replace that withtheir challenge.
And they're like, no, no, no,that's not even.
That's not the topic.
That's the topic of your essay.
The topic is whatever themethat we're conveying, whatever values
(35:58):
that you're conveying.
Right.
The whole thing that you'rethrough isn't through story.
Like, that's the externalevents that got you to this maybe
internal realization and thenmaybe other external events that
you've done.
Like, after learning thislesson, I then went around to help
(36:21):
other people by starting this organization.
Right.
There are struggles thatdefine who you are, what was not
your identity.
Your.
Your identity is not your hardship.
And also your identity is notyour accomplishments.
You know, as I was talkingabout a long example.
Right.
So we have to figure out isyour identity.
(36:43):
Right.
Which goes back to theoriginal, you know, part of the work.
Right.
Before you even get to the topic.
I appreciate you breaking that down.
Um, I do think that.
And it kind of leads into, youknow, writing about sensitive subjects.
How personal is too personal.
And it really.
(37:04):
Both of those kind of circle.
Again, back to writing aboutthe lesson.
Right.
I am resilient because Ilearned to persevere through fill
in the blank.
I don't ever give up becausefill in the blank.
And that is very importantthing to point out because I have.
(37:28):
I have noticed that in topicsthat have.
Have been run by me.
And interestingly and withoutknowing this, but it's probably why
he got in to nyu.
Connor did write his essay onhis coming out story, but it was
through what he learned, wherehe was at that point when he was
(37:52):
writing it.
So the lessons learned throughthe different pieces, the different
things that he went through,that's just fascinating.
And I at the time, didn'tthink about it.
I just thought, oh, wow.
Bravo.
Yeah.
When you look back, you'relike, oh, it makes sense.
Yeah.
He's gonna be so excited.
You knew the formula.
(38:14):
Yeah.
Another thing I'd love to talkabout is how a lot of college consultants
and parents too, they mightknow that.
They might know, like, oh, Ineed to convey this lesson at the
end of the essay.
But the way that they forcethat onto a kid can be not authentic.
So we have to be careful ofthat as well.
(38:35):
Sure.
Where they, like, force theminto a certain box or, like, a certain
narrative, because they'relike, oh, I know, it needs to be
a story, so let's go tweaks tothe story and, like, make sure our
kids saw those narrative points.
That can also be anotherproblem, because I've read several
essays where I read that, andI'm like, okay, I see what's happening
(38:57):
here.
It's so obvious to me becauseI read thousands of essays.
So I, I.
After they read the essay,I'll be like, okay, what actually
happened?
You can tell me.
And then they tell me whatactually happened.
I'm like, yeah, that's what I thought.
So then we, you know, we'llmake some adjustments to the story.
We're not going to change thewhole topic of the essay, but, like,
(39:20):
change how they're writingabout it and the outline.
So then it's more authenticand we create or we bring in those
rich details.
I think that's really interesting.
The thing about, like,authentic applications is when you
write through the lens of,like, authenticity, you're gonna
(39:42):
come out with a more uniqueessay that's going to help you stand
out, because you're not tryingto fit this mold of a narrative that
you think it has to be.
When you make a narrative thatis, like, what you think gets into
schools, you're going to missout on all the nuance, the emotions,
(40:03):
those details, and the debtthat come from the reality of your
lived experience.
Right, right.
And again, I think circlingback to doing that work of really
figuring out who you are.
Yeah, yeah.
(40:23):
And writing from a place ofthis is who I am in this world, as
opposed to this is who thiscollege is looking for me to be in
this world.
Um, and I think when a kid,especially, you know, a young person,
young adult, can reallyconnect and do that work of, like,
(40:48):
figuring out who they are.
Oh, my gosh.
Like, hugely important.
Yeah.
Not even just for the college essay.
For their entire life.
For everything.
For everything.
Because it takes people, mostpeople, a long time to do that work
(41:09):
and to figure it out and tofigure out that that's how you really
are successful in life.
Right.
So being able to figure thatout as, like, you're, like, unlocking
the key to colleges andgetting into what you may have initially
thought were your dream colleges.
Once you do that, they may notbe your dream colleges.
(41:32):
They may still be, but theyalso may not be.
So I think that's a really, Ithink it's phenomenal what you've
hit on.
Yeah.
We're gonna wrap up in acouple of minutes, so I wanna hear
thoughts that you would liketo leave parents and then how people
(41:53):
can find you.
Yeah, one, so we coverednurturing their intellectual curiosity.
I think that's reallyimportant for parents to do.
Encouraging them to exploretheir own interests, giving them
agency, pursue their ownideas, while also supporting them
along the way.
Like, I'm not saying stepaway, like, absolutely.
(42:15):
Support, support, Provideother ideas, other suggestions, use
your connections.
Like, I really am thankful formy own parents for helping me in
that way.
And in terms of like learningabout who a kid is, you can engage
in conversations, seek tounderstand your child and like, what
(42:39):
matters to them and why.
And by asking those questions,you can really find what lights them
up.
And, and then there you canfind like that intrinsic motivation.
Right.
Which is what we need to havein ripples.
A, like, it has to be so clearon paper that the kid actually feels
this way and is very, likeapproaches things because they want
(43:06):
to, they genuinely want to.
It's important to focus on howyou, as a student, and I'm talking
about the student, cancontribute to the university.
Because these colleges, theypride themselves in their rankings.
Yes.
They pride themselves in theirsuccessful alumni as well, who go
(43:28):
on to impact the world in big ways.
And so they're only able tomaintain this level of prestige,
but accepting students whowill add, you know, unique perspectives,
diversity of experiences.
And that intellectualcuriosity talked about adding that
to their community.
So when you write your collegeessays, this is especially relevant
(43:54):
for the essay that asks, whyare you interested in our college?
Why do you want to go here?
That is you saying, here's howI'm going to help you.
It's, don't think of it, youknow, the other way around.
It's like, oh, at this collegeI'm going to get all this stuff.
I'm, you know, the receiver.
It's like, no, no, no.
You're also giving to thecollege and that's what they want
(44:17):
to see.
So in those essays, you reallywant to paint the picture for them
as to like, how are you goingto make great use of their resources
and their opportunities tothen create some sort of large scale
impact or positively impactthe world?
Love that.
(44:37):
Yeah.
They want to see that you'regoing to be able to succeed at their
university.
Right, right again.
Good flip of that question.
All right.
How can people find you?
You can find me@next gen.comdown and then admit like a person
(45:02):
that gets admitted into a school.
Old D mit.com, you could alsojust look up my name on the Internet
and I will come up or on YouTube.
I'm big on YouTube.
I love rambling on and onabout many different topics related
to this stuff.
So you can find me on YouTubejust by searching Dylan Nellis.
(45:22):
Oh, also, I want to plug ifanyone's interested in a free masterclass
that I have.
I have a full hour longmasterclass where I talk about the
top school admissions formulaand I go into a lot more depth and
specifics.
This is really, really usefulinformation that I wish that I had
(45:44):
when I was starting out.
So it's totally free and youcan register for that@nextgenadmit.com
Masterclass.
Awesome.
That's amazing.
I'll have all of this in theshow notes, so if anybody was madly
writing, don't worry.
Um, you can just scroll downand click on it through the show
notes and you will be able tofind Dylan.
(46:04):
And I'm so, so thrilled thatyou, you've reached out and that
you are on the show today.
This was so much fun talkingwith you.
I'm so incredibly impressedwith who you are in this world and
what you've accomplished already.
Oh, my goodness.
Look out, world.
Thank you.
I'm kind of blessed and I lovehearing your story and how you resonate
(46:27):
with things too.
It's nice to hear from other partners.
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much.
So good to have.
Welcome back.
I am really glad you are here.
In recent weeks, I've becomereally judicious about which podcasts
I listen to and when.
And I've learned to reallyhonor the signals my body and mind
give when I am on politicaloverload or I'm feeling overwhelmed,
(01:35):
or when I'm beginning to slideinto a dark place.
I'm beginning to spend a lotmore time in the morning meditating
and just being still and present.
And I'm working on ending eachday with something that allows my
mind and body to relax insteadof keeping it completely jacked up
(01:58):
by endlessly scrolling until Ican't keep my eyes open any longer.
Some days that means I'mreading a book, others that means
I'm watching a show.
And I'm currently working myway toward hopping in the sauna or
taking a bath at the end ofthe day because those just feel like
the ultimate bedtime routine.
(02:19):
I'm searching for balance, asI know that you are too.
We want to stay informed, wewant to take action, and we want
to stay well because we knowthis is a marathon beyond the Breath
My Friday informal podcast hasbeen an incredible way for me to
share my thoughts on current events.
(02:42):
Let me know if you have topicsyou'd like for me to address.
I love hearing what'sresonating with you.
I really contemplated when toschedule today's guest in my podcast
release calendar because hertopic is one that really might be
more relevant in a month or two.
However, I also think thatpositivity keeps us hopeful and discussing
(03:07):
subjects other than politicskeeps us moving forward with confidence
and courage.
I also love any opportunity touplift queer voices, young voices,
women's voices, and today Iget to do all three.
A few weeks ago, I had theopportunity to chat with a most impressive
(03:29):
young adult who isaccomplishing really cool things
in the world while living sobeautifully and authentically.
Dylan Nellis is a collegeadmissions coach and founder of Next
Gen Admit.
After gaining acceptance toevery school she applied to and attending
Stanford University, Dylanstarted NextGen Admit to help high
(03:52):
school students effectivelyconvey their personal values, authentic
experiences and potential instandout college applications.
Her students come from aroundthe globe and have been accepted
to the country's mostcompetitive universities.
Dylan has a special gift ofbeing able to connect with teens
(04:15):
and help them peel back thelayers and share authentically.
Parents of high schoolstudents listen carefully to her
step, her tips, and then reachout to her.
She is a breath of fresh airand she will help you and your child
during a time that is evenmore chaotic than ever before.
(04:39):
Welcome back, everyone.
I am so glad that you are hereand I am really, really delighted
to welcome Dylan to the showtoday to discuss a topic that we've
never discussed here before,which I cannot believe.
In five and a half years, wehave not touched on the college process
because we talk about collegea lot on the show.
(05:04):
Connor has gone through college.
Two, three of my kids are,have gone through the process since
I've been doing the show.
So I'm really excited towelcome you on and talk about what
you do in the world and howyou have kind of a unique view of
the whole college process.
(05:24):
So thank you for being here.
Yay.
Thank you for having me.
I'm super excited to dive intothis stuff.
Well, I loved when you reached out.
You were so enthusiastic.
There was something that justspoke to me and I thought, okay,
you have to be on the show.
Parents are going to reallyrelate to you and think that you
(05:47):
have a very unique combinationof, of traits and what you do and
how you do it.
And you've just lived this experience.
I think you're around Connor'sage, maybe a little bit older, and
so you're not far removed fromdoing all of this yourself.
So you have a very deepunderstanding of how this works.
So why don't we start with youjust giving a brief.
(06:08):
This is what I do.
This is what my company is.
This is why I'm so passionateabout it.
Yeah.
So I'm a college admissions coach.
I help high achieving studentsget into their dream schools.
I tend to work with studentswho really want to get into the top,
top universities and I helpthem get there.
I, I think what would behelpful is if I backtrack and give
(06:30):
you some background on my story.
So I, when I was applying tocollege, that was in 2018.
Yeah.
I did not know what to do at all.
There was like barely any helpat my high school.
Just one college counselor,like the entire school.
And yeah, it wasn't a lot ofstrategy given there.
(06:53):
You know, college counselorswill often help with like, logistics,
side of things, or like fillout this form, but they don't tell
you.
Okay, here's actually thestrategy that it takes to get in,
especially the college essaystrategy, which is so important.
And so I had to do a lot ofthat work all on my own.
And I did a ton of researchonline and reading books and articles
(07:17):
and all these things and wasreally fascinated by this process
because it allowed me to learnso much about myself and the college
essay.
A lot of people will thinkthat it's like the worst thing ever.
And they'll come out of theprocess being like, oh, I hated that.
I never want to think aboutthe college process ever again.
(07:39):
But for me, I felt verydifferently because for not like
the first, like, kind of, itallowed me to really think about
who I was as a person and whatI wanted to contribute and what my
values were and what I'd gonethrough, what my experiences were.
And I had to understand myselfat such a deep level in order to
(08:01):
communicate that to somebody else.
And so I came out of theprocess being like, oh my God, I
know who I am now, and that'sso cool.
And I.
I now have a clearer directionof where I want to go in life.
I have more confidence in myself.
And I grew as a writer as wellbecause I was able to articulate
that in college essays.
(08:23):
And so anyways, I got acceptedinto every school that I applied
to.
I was very shocked.
Um, and I committed toStanford University.
So I did my four years of college.
However, I took a gap yearduring COVID So that was like right
after my freshman year ofcollege, you know, everything was
(08:45):
shut down.
I was like, no way, I'm notdoing online schools.
And then during that time whenI was just at home for a whole year
is when I actually startedthis business.
It started with me postingvideos on YouTube because I just
wanted to share what I'd learned.
And then so many people, like,really resonated with everything
(09:06):
that I was saying and waslike, oh my God, can you edit my
essay?
Can I hop on a call with you?
And at that time, I was notbusy at all because it was during
COVID so I was like, sure.
And then through that, Istarted to learn so much more through
replicating those results withother students and helping them discover
(09:27):
who they were as people andarticulating that.
And that was just so cool.
It lit me up.
And then I hired other peopleto help me so when I went back into
college, I wouldn't bestruggling so much, so ran a full
time company while in college.
That was very hard.
I can imagine.
(09:48):
Oh my goodness.
Yeah.
And then I just recentlygraduated in 2024, and now this is
what I do full time.
I help other people.
I love that.
What an empowering process.
Because having had four or myfourth, is a junior right now in
(10:08):
high school, and, and watchingthem and just knowing how overwhelming
that process can be, and it'sjust a tough time.
Like you are just as a humanbeing trying to figure out who you
are in this world and whereyou fit.
And when I, a million yearsago, was going into college, you
(10:29):
didn't necessarily need toknow exactly what you wanted to do.
Right.
You didn't need to make thatdecision before you got to college.
And that is being asked of youso much more now, or at least to
have a.
A general idea, have itnarrowed down, you know, however
you want to say that.
So I'm very curious about yourprocess and what you figured out.
(10:52):
And why don't we just talkabout first before we go into your
process, some of the mythsthat really cause parents anxiety
and that cause kids anxiety.
Cause I imagine they're different.
Yeah.
Well, I think one thing thatis probably common among both parents
and kids is that they thinkthat your grades and your test scores
(11:15):
are everything and, like, so focused.
All of us who, like, get goodgrades, get good grades, like, oh,
my God, I gotta be like, theworld is over.
I'm not gonna get into mydream school.
Let's.
Let's take a breath.
Because, yes, if you want togo to top school, obviously grades
(11:38):
are important.
And a lot of people who getinto these schools tend to have 4.0
GPA or above, or they'revaledictorian, whatever.
But the thing with that isthat the grades don't set you apart.
They're not the thing that'sactually going to get you in.
Like, sure, there's like abenchmark of the grades that you
(12:02):
should have, but also there iswiggle room, and you can look it
up, like the stats for whatkind of students get accepted to
the school.
You'll see you don't alwayshave to have the perfect grades or
the perfect scores becauseadmissions is holistic.
And holistic means they takeinto account many different factors
(12:24):
when reviewing yourapplication profile.
So no one factor is going tocompletely rule you out.
Necessary leaks.
So what I think and what Itell people is way more important
is your story.
Who you are as a personmatters so much.
Because sure, there are goingto be other people who have the same
(12:46):
grades as you, maybe even thesame extracurriculars, but nobody
has your lived experience andyour story and your unique values.
And so if you can focus onthat and really understand who you
are and be able to communicatethat in a very strategic yet authentic
(13:09):
way, then that's gonna be whatsets you apart.
Let's say that your child isreally wanting an IV or like, a higher
tier school.
Mm.
The grades have to be there inorder to get you to this next part.
(13:29):
Yes.
Or no.
Yes, yes, that is the truth.
But I think it's about likepriorities, I guess.
Especially if we're talkingabout like earlier in high school,
you know, not when you're asenior and you're actually ready
to start the application process.
But if you're thinking aboutthe development of a student during
high school.
Yes.
Try to get good grades.
(13:50):
Like, I'm not saying don't getgood grades, but I don't think that
you should like spend all ofyour time studying and sitting at
your desk and reading atextbook because you know, the next
important thing is extracurriculars.
You gotta build yourextracurricular profile.
And I also don't think thatnecessarily parents should force
(14:11):
a kid to do a certainextracurricular or what they think
will stand out when they don'tactually know.
The most important thing isnurturing a student's intellectual
curiosity.
Because intellectual curiosityis like the number one thing that
these top, top colleges look for.
(14:33):
And a lot of that comes fromintrinsic motivation.
Right.
They have to actually feel itinside of their gut, their heart
and be super interested inwhatever it is that they want to
pursue and do things relatedto that.
Now they don't necessarilyhave to know, like, this is what
I want my whole life to be inmy career.
(14:53):
I don't agree with that.
And I also understand thatpeople's lives change and that's
so normal.
Like at Stanford also sidetangent, like people change their
majors all the time, multiple times.
It's so normal.
So the point is, when you'rein high school, they want to band
in colleges, they want to seethat you're doing things that light
(15:15):
you up.
So if you are interested inlike computer science, for example,
or engineering, do little side projects.
Like it's totally cool tospend your time messing around on
the computer and making littlecoding projects or making little
robotics projects.
And then once you get yourskill, maybe try a summer program
related to that, maybe join aclub, maybe start your own club.
(15:37):
Like those are the things thatneed to happen throughout the high
school experience beforeyou're ready to actually create your
story.
Right, right.
I mean, this is, this isreally good advice for people who
have kids who are even inmiddle school still.
Yeah.
You know, it's really kind ofhelping your child be that well rounded
(15:58):
student and, and not pullingthem out of things that you may feel
are frivolous but actually arethings that the child feels passionately
about and could potentiallyset them apart as a student.
So I appreciate you saying that.
Yeah.
Can I jump in?
Actually yeah, of course.
(16:19):
About the, the term wellrounded student.
Oh, it, it's a tricky oneactually in the like college admissions
space.
Because I like the termactually, because it's like I, this
is my personal beliefs.
I think it is great for peopleto have skills and experiences in
many different areas.
And I am someone who is veryinterdisciplinary and I like to do
(16:42):
things in a lot of differentrealms as well.
However, another thing for topschool admissions is they tend to
like spiky applications morethan well rounded ones.
I put both of those in quotes.
Have you heard of that?
I haven't.
I would say explain what spiky means.
(17:04):
This is another misconception.
A lot of people think like,oh, that means I have to just do
one thing.
You know, if I've committedmyself to engineering, like all of
my extracurriculars have to beabout engineering.
I have to write my collegeessay about how I love engineering.
Like everything has to beabout one thing.
That's not the case.
Basically they do want to seethat you have a sense of direction,
(17:26):
kind of as we've been talkingabout, and that you're doing things
that you are curious about butgoing deep into them.
So it looks better if youspend, you know, several years in
a certain program or volunteeror project, whatever, like really
dedicating yourself becauseit's something that you're so into
(17:47):
and so passionate about andyou can grow and scale that project
and impact.
Lots of people, you know,bring, bring the scale wider in terms
of your impact and your reachversus oh, I'm just going to do a
couple volunteer hours hereand there and then I'm going to do
(18:07):
this random collab and thenI'm going to do this other thing
like that doesn't look as goodto top colleges to position this
in a positive light because Iknow it's like, gosh, then I can't
do a lot of things.
That's once again not exactlythe case.
It's that they don't want tosee that you're just doing a bunch
(18:27):
of random things because youthink that that's going to look good
on the application.
Right.
Well, that makes a thousandpercent sense and I think that I'm
glad you clarified thatbecause that is, I believe also to
be very, very important.
And I've watched with, youknow, each of my own kids as they've
(18:48):
all done very, very differentthings, but have made sure that they've
been things that they arereally, you know, like my one daughter
was in Science Olympiad forseven years.
She was dancer for A long time different.
They were very differentthings that she was doing, but she
was also, had been doing themfor a long time and was very dedicated
(19:12):
to each one and had spent alot of time with each one of them.
And then another one is very artistic.
Another one is like uberfocused on sports.
And so it's, it's funny tolike see.
And I actually was talking toa friend the other day and, and her
first child is just, she'sjust going through this process for
(19:32):
the first time and she, she'svery high achieving and she says,
you know, I'm looking at allthis stuff about my son and I'm wishing
that he hadn't dropped out ofthis and I wish he had kept with
this.
And I'm realizing howremarkably average my child is.
I was like, oh my God.
Just like, okay, there is aplace for everyone.
(19:54):
Like, I understand how youmight want your child.
And this and I think is a veryimportant thing that I'd love for
you to touch on where theparent so desperately wants their
child to go to a school that'smaybe up here because they did, or
that's what their focus hasbeen on the whole 18 years of their
(20:15):
child's life or whatever.
But the child is kind of like,I'm good here and I, I, I'm looking
at more of a wide view or whatever.
So I'd love to talk aboutlike, how to manage how a parent
can manage their own desireswhile help guide their child and
support their child throughthis process.
(20:36):
Yeah.
Oh, that's a really good pointto bring up because I've had parents,
you know, jump on a call withme and they're like, I want my kid
to go to a good school.
Okay, let's define what goodmeans, right?
Because so many schools are great.
Yes, great.
Just because, you know, itdoesn't have the brand name of Harvard
(21:01):
or Princeton, whatever,doesn't mean that it's not a great
school, that you're not goingto get an amazing education and that
wonderful opportunities willcome out of that.
That's not the case.
Like, of course you can.
It's, it's less about theschool, it's more about the person
and what they choose to dowith the opportunities and the resources
(21:22):
that they are given, you know,whether they take advantage of them.
And another thing aboutprestige is it's, it's more about
like the type of students thatthey accept versus the quality of
education.
I think I read that somewherethat talked about that in depth and
(21:44):
I thought that was really interesting.
And made sense.
It's like they're admittingstudents who are already achieving
at a certain level at age 17.
Right.
But it's correlation causation.
Like, point is, there's a lotof great education in many different
schools.
And I think what's mostimportant is for, I would say, both
(22:08):
actually the parent and thestudent to do a lot of research into
these colleges to see is thatactually what I want, is that aligned
with me, do they have theprograms that I want and will help
me succeed?
And I encourage students toget, like, really nitty gritty with
their research.
Like, look at the classes.
(23:24):
Read the description.
Look at who's teaching the classes.
What is that person done?
What you know, what kind ofwork do they have?
What kind of researchopportunities are there?
Does that align with what you want?
Oh, and also, like, the valuesof the school and the department
and their approach to teachingand learning.
Is that what you want?
(23:45):
Because if it's not, you don'thave to apply there.
Even if it's a top school.
That's totally fine.
Yeah, Yeah, I.
I appreciate that very, very much.
I think that is very, very important.
Let's talk a little bit aboutwriting these essays, because that
(24:05):
is a huge piece of.
Of what you do, and I thinkwhat differentiates.
And there are two things thatyou brought up that I think really
stood out to me.
One being the importance ofauthenticity along with the strategy.
(24:25):
And in that, being able tohelp guide the student to really.
And it's what you did.
It sounds like really guidingthat student to connect with their.
Their values and, like, beingable to see, like, wow, this is who
I am.
And those, like, really deeplyempowering moments.
(24:46):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I think first, it's reallyeasy to get lost in the noise of
the college application process.
And there's so many people andthings telling you what to do as
a student.
You have your parents, like,you should do this, you should do
that.
You know, when they might notquite know also.
(25:07):
And then you have your collegecounselor telling you what to do.
Or if you, like, hired anoutside college consultant, they're
telling you what to do.
And then there's advice on theInternet telling you what to do.
And on TikTok.
Oh, my God, on TikTok, like,that's a whole world, too.
And a lot of people get theireducation and advice from there,
too.
So it gets really convolutedin a student's mind.
(25:32):
And then ultimately, what Isee a lot of students do is they
write what they think.
The admissions officer wantsto Hear, but they're not actually
writing a story that conveyswho they truly are.
Right.
And so I had a studentrecently got rejected from Stanford,
(25:53):
early restrictive action.
And she had, she had all thethings, you know, like the grades,
the extracurriculars.
And she was like, I don'tunderstand what happened.
And I read her essay andimmediately I knew because I've gotten
to this point where I candiagnose it in like literally a second.
(26:13):
I read her essay and basicallyshe was just writing what she thought
she should write, and she wasreciting a series of events from
her life that showed what shehad done, what she had achieved.
And by the end of theincident, I was like, okay, but I
didn't learn anything aboutwho you are.
(26:35):
Like, I know you started thisnon graduate, I know you're interested
in this specific major, but Ihave no idea why.
I don't really understand whatdrives you.
And what was crazy also is thefact that she actually worked with
an outside consultant.
Her family hired somebody elseto help her with this, but he barely
(26:57):
helped with that as well, clearly.
And like, it was not.
Did not provide the kind offeedback that you need for a top
school like Stanford.
It's just, it's so strategicat this point, which I have complicated
feelings about.
So basically I worked with herto first unpack who she was not.
(27:18):
Usually when I hop on a callwith a student like this, I'm not
like, okay, let's edit the essay.
You know, change a fewsentences, change a few words.
I'm like, no, no, no, we needto go back to the drawing board and
really like, figure out whatit is you're trying to get across.
What are you saying?
And so through this process,she learned so much more about who
(27:40):
she was.
And that was really cool.
I've had another student who,where I will ask, okay, why are you
interested in this major?
And they'll be like, oh, well,when I was little, I did this camp
and then I did this club and Idid this.
I was like, okay, okay, you'retelling me what you've done.
Let me ask you again.
Why are you interested in this subject?
Like, what about the subject itself?
(28:02):
Like, gets you going?
And then she again, like,answered with more things that she
had done.
I'm like, okay, yeah.
So we repeat that processuntil I really get to the core of
it, which a lot of times issomething very inherent to who they
are as a person.
Like, oh, I.
I like to solve problemsmethodically or like, I'm very organized
(28:23):
person, or I Like, looking atthe whole picture before I look at
the details, you know, like, certain.
There are certain values likethat, and we can figure out what
the unique one is for thestudent that comes from talking with
them and doing that process,which is really hard to do alone.
(28:44):
I will acknowledge, especiallywhen these students, you know, at
this age, you don't think alot about who you are as a person.
Well, I was gonna say that.
That is not something that Ifeel like kids are really challenged
on.
There's so much of, like, youneed to learn these subjects.
You need to figure out whatyou want to do.
(29:06):
You do these activities.
But there's not a lot of,like, reflective.
Why.
Why do I do better at maththan I do at English?
Or why do I really enjoy this.
This class over here insteadof this class?
Or.
Or this activity over this activity?
(29:29):
There's none of.
There's not really any of that.
(30:29):
And that's why I say, like,working with a college admissions
coach on your college essayscan feel a lot like therapy.
And when I tell people aboutwhat I do, they're like, oh, my God,
you're like a therapist.
I'm like, that's so funny,because, yes, we are, like, fully
unpacking somebody else'sstuff, and we're gonna get vulnerable.
(30:53):
They get really vulnerablewith me and telling me their entire
life story, their challenges,their childhood experiences, like,
the relationships that theyhave to the people in their lives
and all the things that haveshaped them to who they are today.
And that's why if a parent ora family is hiring a college admissions
coach, I think you have toreally trust them and really make
(31:19):
sure that this person, like,can hold that weight, I guess, and
that the child, moreimportantly, that the student feels
very comfortable being sovulnerable with this person, because
they're gonna get to know eachother real well.
Like, especially if they'reworking for.
Together for, like, months.
(31:39):
Right.
Right.
Well, I feel like you've.
You've hit on something that Idon't know that I've ever heard any
other person talk about before.
I haven't worked with any.
With a college admission coachfor any of my kids for various reasons.
Not because I think there'sanything wrong with them.
We just haven't.
(32:00):
But just thinking.
I don't know that I've everheard any of my friends who've used
them say anything like this.
Like, the personalrelationship, like that.
That level of getting to knowsomeone and allowing someone to guide
(32:21):
you through a process that canbe so vulnerable and should be so
vulnerable and should besomething that is deeply personal.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I think people, yeah,people don't talk about that a lot.
And I'm, I've been trying tothink in my head like, why?
(32:42):
And part of it, part of itmight be just that like some college
consultants themselves, likedon't do this level of depth that
I do with my students.
And I've heard from otherpeople, you know, it's just like,
ah, check in meetings.
Oh, how's it going?
Good.
Okay, I can review your essay.
Yeah, whatever.
(33:03):
Once again, I'm like, oh my God.
That's not giving them thestrategy that they actually need
to.
Well, in the strategy and thistype of work actually you would save
time in the long run.
So much time.
Right.
Because then you're drillingdown on exactly what needs to be
done and you're not out there.
Like I feel like so much ofthis is just like throwing spaghetti
(33:25):
at the wall.
Right.
And seeing, seeing what sticks.
This is like a very targetedapproach, correct?
Yes, very targeted.
And that's why I tell studentslike, don't write the essay until
you first identify your values.
Identified.
What's the theme of my essay written?
(33:46):
A full on outline, like stepby step of what you're going to talk
about in every single paragraph.
Because this is storytelling.
It is, it is literally storytelling.
It's all about crafting a story.
There's different ways to doit and I have different strategies
that I teach.
There's gonna be this themethat's conveys your main values and
then how you tell the story isso important.
(34:09):
That's why I always, I don'treally believe in the idea of like
cliche essay topics or essaytopics that you should avoid.
Because I'm like, you can talkabout anything.
Well, not, not anything, anything.
But most things you can talkabout, it just depends on how you're
doing it.
Because you have to do it in away that is creative, unique and
(34:33):
authentic and that positionsyou as a standout applicant.
Oh, and this is, this istaking me to another point that I
would love to talk about.
Hero stories versus some stories.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
Our understanding of whysuddenly people think that you need
a sub story to get into college.
(34:55):
Because it's not.
Colleges are admitting youbecause you experienced hardship.
Not like, oh my God, you wentthrough some horrible things.
Yay.
Like I'm gonna admit itdoesn't work like that.
They're admitting studentsbecause of the skills that they've
gained, the strengths thatthey have and the values that they
(35:16):
develop by persevering throughtheir challenges.
So the focus of your essayshould be your struggle, your struggles,
or your challenges.
Like, yes, a lot of times theprompt will ask you about challenges,
and that's.
Of course, they want to letterout your experiences, but that should
(35:37):
not be the focus of youressay, and that is not the theme
of your essay.
And a lot of times people willbe like, oh, I'm writing an essay
about blank.
Whatever that topic is.
People will replace that withtheir challenge.
And they're like, no, no, no,that's not even.
That's not the topic.
That's the topic of your essay.
The topic is whatever themethat we're conveying, whatever values
(35:58):
that you're conveying.
Right.
The whole thing that you'rethrough isn't through story.
Like, that's the externalevents that got you to this maybe
internal realization and thenmaybe other external events that
you've done.
Like, after learning thislesson, I then went around to help
(36:21):
other people by starting this organization.
Right.
There are struggles thatdefine who you are, what was not
your identity.
Your.
Your identity is not your hardship.
And also your identity is notyour accomplishments.
You know, as I was talkingabout a long example.
Right.
So we have to figure out isyour identity.
(36:43):
Right.
Which goes back to theoriginal, you know, part of the work.
Right.
Before you even get to the topic.
I appreciate you breaking that down.
Um, I do think that.
And it kind of leads into, youknow, writing about sensitive subjects.
How personal is too personal.
And it really.
(37:04):
Both of those kind of circle.
Again, back to writing aboutthe lesson.
Right.
I am resilient because Ilearned to persevere through fill
in the blank.
I don't ever give up becausefill in the blank.
And that is very importantthing to point out because I have.
(37:28):
I have noticed that in topicsthat have.
Have been run by me.
And interestingly and withoutknowing this, but it's probably why
he got in to nyu.
Connor did write his essay onhis coming out story, but it was
through what he learned, wherehe was at that point when he was
(37:52):
writing it.
So the lessons learned throughthe different pieces, the different
things that he went through,that's just fascinating.
And I at the time, didn'tthink about it.
I just thought, oh, wow.
Bravo.
Yeah.
When you look back, you'relike, oh, it makes sense.
Yeah.
He's gonna be so excited.
You knew the formula.
(38:14):
Yeah.
Another thing I'd love to talkabout is how a lot of college consultants
and parents too, they mightknow that.
They might know, like, oh, Ineed to convey this lesson at the
end of the essay.
But the way that they forcethat onto a kid can be not authentic.
So we have to be careful ofthat as well.
(38:35):
Sure.
Where they, like, force theminto a certain box or, like, a certain
narrative, because they'relike, oh, I know, it needs to be
a story, so let's go tweaks tothe story and, like, make sure our
kids saw those narrative points.
That can also be anotherproblem, because I've read several
essays where I read that, andI'm like, okay, I see what's happening
(38:57):
here.
It's so obvious to me becauseI read thousands of essays.
So I, I.
After they read the essay,I'll be like, okay, what actually
happened?
You can tell me.
And then they tell me whatactually happened.
I'm like, yeah, that's what I thought.
So then we, you know, we'llmake some adjustments to the story.
We're not going to change thewhole topic of the essay, but, like,
(39:20):
change how they're writingabout it and the outline.
So then it's more authenticand we create or we bring in those
rich details.
I think that's really interesting.
The thing about, like,authentic applications is when you
write through the lens of,like, authenticity, you're gonna
(39:42):
come out with a more uniqueessay that's going to help you stand
out, because you're not tryingto fit this mold of a narrative that
you think it has to be.
When you make a narrative thatis, like, what you think gets into
schools, you're going to missout on all the nuance, the emotions,
(40:03):
those details, and the debtthat come from the reality of your
lived experience.
Right, right.
And again, I think circlingback to doing that work of really
figuring out who you are.
Yeah, yeah.
(40:23):
And writing from a place ofthis is who I am in this world, as
opposed to this is who thiscollege is looking for me to be in
this world.
Um, and I think when a kid,especially, you know, a young person,
young adult, can reallyconnect and do that work of, like,
(40:48):
figuring out who they are.
Oh, my gosh.
Like, hugely important.
Yeah.
Not even just for the college essay.
For their entire life.
For everything.
For everything.
Because it takes people, mostpeople, a long time to do that work
(41:09):
and to figure it out and tofigure out that that's how you really
are successful in life.
Right.
So being able to figure thatout as, like, you're, like, unlocking
the key to colleges andgetting into what you may have initially
thought were your dream colleges.
Once you do that, they may notbe your dream colleges.
(41:32):
They may still be, but theyalso may not be.
So I think that's a really, Ithink it's phenomenal what you've
hit on.
Yeah.
We're gonna wrap up in acouple of minutes, so I wanna hear
thoughts that you would liketo leave parents and then how people
(41:53):
can find you.
Yeah, one, so we coverednurturing their intellectual curiosity.
I think that's reallyimportant for parents to do.
Encouraging them to exploretheir own interests, giving them
agency, pursue their ownideas, while also supporting them
along the way.
Like, I'm not saying stepaway, like, absolutely.
(42:15):
Support, support, Provideother ideas, other suggestions, use
your connections.
Like, I really am thankful formy own parents for helping me in
that way.
And in terms of like learningabout who a kid is, you can engage
in conversations, seek tounderstand your child and like, what
(42:39):
matters to them and why.
And by asking those questions,you can really find what lights them
up.
And, and then there you canfind like that intrinsic motivation.
Right.
Which is what we need to havein ripples.
A, like, it has to be so clearon paper that the kid actually feels
this way and is very, likeapproaches things because they want
(43:06):
to, they genuinely want to.
It's important to focus on howyou, as a student, and I'm talking
about the student, cancontribute to the university.
Because these colleges, theypride themselves in their rankings.
Yes.
They pride themselves in theirsuccessful alumni as well, who go
(43:28):
on to impact the world in big ways.
And so they're only able tomaintain this level of prestige,
but accepting students whowill add, you know, unique perspectives,
diversity of experiences.
And that intellectualcuriosity talked about adding that
to their community.
So when you write your collegeessays, this is especially relevant
(43:54):
for the essay that asks, whyare you interested in our college?
Why do you want to go here?
That is you saying, here's howI'm going to help you.
It's, don't think of it, youknow, the other way around.
It's like, oh, at this collegeI'm going to get all this stuff.
I'm, you know, the receiver.
It's like, no, no, no.
You're also giving to thecollege and that's what they want
(44:17):
to see.
So in those essays, you reallywant to paint the picture for them
as to like, how are you goingto make great use of their resources
and their opportunities tothen create some sort of large scale
impact or positively impactthe world?
Love that.
(44:37):
Yeah.
They want to see that you'regoing to be able to succeed at their
university.
Right, right again.
Good flip of that question.
All right.
How can people find you?
You can find me@next gen.comdown and then admit like a person
(45:02):
that gets admitted into a school.
Old D mit.com, you could alsojust look up my name on the Internet
and I will come up or on YouTube.
I'm big on YouTube.
I love rambling on and onabout many different topics related
to this stuff.
So you can find me on YouTubejust by searching Dylan Nellis.
(45:22):
Oh, also, I want to plug ifanyone's interested in a free masterclass
that I have.
I have a full hour longmasterclass where I talk about the
top school admissions formulaand I go into a lot more depth and
specifics.
This is really, really usefulinformation that I wish that I had
(45:44):
when I was starting out.
So it's totally free and youcan register for that@nextgenadmit.com
Masterclass.
Awesome.
That's amazing.
I'll have all of this in theshow notes, so if anybody was madly
writing, don't worry.
Um, you can just scroll downand click on it through the show
notes and you will be able tofind Dylan.
(46:04):
And I'm so, so thrilled thatyou, you've reached out and that
you are on the show today.
This was so much fun talkingwith you.
I'm so incredibly impressedwith who you are in this world and
what you've accomplished already.
Oh, my goodness.
Look out, world.
Thank you.
I'm kind of blessed and I lovehearing your story and how you resonate
(46:27):
with things too.
It's nice to hear from other partners.
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much.
So good to have.
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