It's National Slytherin Pride Day! What Hogwarts House would you belong to? There are lots of quizzes online to find out. Misty took hers... Her house colors would be blue and bronze... ;)
We also continue our series discussing the supports and features of the new Inspiring Connections curriculum. This week we chat with Tony Jones, Dan Henderson and Stephanie Castaneda, from the Curriculum and Assessment department, about mathematical language routines that are imbedded into the curriculum and how these support the language development of ALL learners.
If you would like more information about the new Inspiring Connections curriculum, please contact your Regional Professional Learning Coordinator (map).
Send Joel and Misty a message!
The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Misty (00:00):
Hello everyone.
It is March 21st, 2023, and thisis episode 23 of season two of
the More Math for More Peoplepodcast.
Cheers.
(00:28):
Hello everyone.
I'm Misty.
And I'm Joel.
And this is the more.
For more People.
Podcast brought to you by CPMEducational Program.
On this podcast, we discuss theCPM curriculum, trends in math
education, and share strategiesto shift instructional practices
to create a more inclusive andstudent-centered classroom.
We also highlight upcoming CPMprofessional learning
(00:50):
opportunities and haveconversations with math
educators about how they do whatthey do, and we always try to
have a little bit of fun andlaughter as well.
Indeed we do.
So come and find out whatshenanigans were up to on this
episode.
Boom.
(01:11):
All right.
Well, I happen to know that youhave some level of excitement
about this National Day today,Joel.
Joel (01:17):
I do have some level of excitement for all the days,
Misty (01:21):
I, I was gonna say that yes, that is true.
And, but a particular, I don'tknow.
I just feel like they have aparticular level of excitement
Joel (01:27):
I am pretty excited.
Slither in Pride Day.
Misty (01:31):
Woo.
Ooh, slithering Pride
Joel (01:34):
Exactly.
And I think my excitement comesmore because of my Harry Potter
fandom, but it's cause I don'treally identify as Slytherin,
but I'm excited that there'sthis day
Misty (01:46):
I just love that.
Identify as slitherin so I, Ihave, I have many thoughts as I
always do.
I mean, one, I'm curious sowhat, is there a, is there
Hufflepuff Pride Day and mean,are there other Harry Potter
House Pride Days?
or are there only Slither andPride
Joel (02:00):
It could be.
This is the only one I've everseen.
Misty (02:02):
an answer to this question.
Okay.
All
Joel (02:05):
Maybe they're not on Tuesdays.
I'm not sure.
Misty (02:07):
I mean, clearly we don't know a lot of national days, cuz
they're not on Tuesdays yet, butwe'll have to have the
Joel (02:13):
We're getting there.
Misty (02:13):
What, 16 years before we'll
Joel (02:16):
I think that's the official cycle.
I actually have no idea, but itsound.
Misty (02:20):
no, I think it's.
Joel (02:22):
that's a real
Misty (02:22):
maybe it's only, yeah, I think it is.
Yeah.
How many years before thecalendar repeats or something?
I don't know if it's 16 or ifit's now, I'm wondering if it's
eight anyway.
No, I think it is.
I think it's 14.
This is totally aside, butbecause you think about it, like
January 1st could start on aSunday, Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,Saturday, that's seven.
(02:45):
And or it could be a leap year,so that's times two.
So I think there's 14 officialcalendar.
anyway, so we might have to havethe podcast for a really long
time.
This is only season two
Joel (02:54):
I hope we do
Misty (02:55):
be much longer for us to get through all the National Day
ofs.
And there'll probably be somerepeats before we get to that,
Joel (03:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Misty (03:01):
be clear, because I think it doesn't just repeat every 14
years.
It takes longer for it toactually get to all 14 of them.
Joel (03:07):
Oh my gosh.
Misty (03:08):
Cuz you gotta get all those leapers.
Ugh.
We're in for the long haul onthe,
Joel (03:12):
we
Misty (03:12):
this
Joel (03:13):
are, we are, committed to finish this
Misty (03:14):
Pride Day.
And now I'm overwhelmed by howlong we have to do this podcast
to get all the National Daves Noanyway, so Slither and Pride
Day.
Okay, so here's my other thingis that I know that people do
this, I take these little, testsor whatever to figure out, I'm
sure there are online quizzes,right?
To figure out what house youwould be.
you ever done that?
Joel (03:33):
I have
Misty (03:35):
Okay.
And what did you get?
Joel (03:37):
Griffindor.
Misty (03:38):
Gryffindor?
Joel (03:40):
I was pretty happy about it too.
Misty (03:42):
Oh, well, okay.
Is that cause that's what youwanted,
Joel (03:45):
that's what I wanted.
So maybe that swayed me in myquestioning.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Misty (03:50):
It's possible.
It's possible.
I've never done one.
I don't think I've ever done oneof those.
So maybe that's what I should dotoday.
Joel (03:55):
I think that'd be a good idea.
Misty (03:56):
I should take a Harry Potter house quiz and see what
it tells me.
Joel (04:02):
And then you can let us all know.
Misty (04:04):
I could, I could.
Do you have any predictions onwhat you think I'm gonna be.
Joel (04:09):
No, I don't because I don't,
Misty (04:11):
You're not willing to go out on that
Joel (04:13):
I'm just not in the mind of the sorting hat.
Like I don't understand quitethe logic of it because it's
within somebody's ability tosort yourself.
But yet the sorting hat sort youkind of interesting
Misty (04:25):
Yeah.
They sorting, had what, liketapping into your kind of core
personality
Joel (04:31):
Yeah.
Misty (04:32):
other thing?
I just think it's alsointeresting the whole concept
that there's gonna take a wholebunch of kids who have very
similar personalities and putthem all together.
Joel (04:39):
Yeah.
Well, but is, is that the rule?
I wonder if that's not the rule.
There's a balance there thatsays I'm gonna put
Misty (04:48):
don't think that they take kids who are really, I
think the whole point is thatthey're putting kids who have
this similar, you know,personality.
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I'm not gonna
Joel (04:59):
do you think it's similar to how you would make your teams
in your classroom at all?
Misty (05:04):
know because I would make those randomly I think that, I
think it's the antithesis
Joel (05:10):
you.
That's right.
Misty (05:12):
that's, yeah, that's the point.
So what are the characteristicsof a Slytherin person?
Did they, did they tell you thatin your
Joel (05:18):
that
Misty (05:18):
national Day stuff there?
Joel (05:19):
Not so much the, well, not so much the characteristics,
just that they are often lookedat as a little evil, maybe a
little sinister, that sort of athing.
Misty (05:32):
Well, they seem
Joel (05:32):
bad people, I guess, but yeah, sneaky, like
Misty (05:36):
Mm-hmm.
Joel (05:37):
critical thinkers.
Maybe I'm not sure.
Misty (05:41):
Well, I'm just wondering what a person who is a sli, what
they would have pride about.
That's all.
just being.
Proud to be part of a group.
All right,
Joel (05:50):
Indeed,
Misty (05:51):
if you identify as Slitherin, then
Joel (05:54):
your day.
Misty (05:55):
good on ya.
And have a great day.
And maybe someday the other oneswill come up and we'll learn
more about those houses too.
Joel (06:01):
That's right.
And I'm guessing you're RavenClaw.
Misty (06:04):
Oh, all right.
Well, we'll have to find out andmaybe we'll put it in some
secret place for people to findit.
Joel (06:12):
Love it.
Misty (06:13):
All right.
Have a great day.
All right.
Here we are.
Oh my gosh.
Is this our third one or ourfourth one?
(06:34):
Joel, help me out.
This is the fourth
Joel (06:36):
Three or four.
Misty (06:37):
All right.
Three No, no.
Which one is it?
Three
Joel (06:40):
Oh, oh four
Misty (06:42):
is our fourth, fourth one, our fourth conversation
about inspiring connections inour little series here.
And today we're gonna talkabout, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
struggle with some of thelanguage around this, but we're
gonna talk about languageroutines, math language
routines, and some other thingsrelated to multilingual
learners.
And we have three of ourwriting.
(07:04):
Curriculum and assessment staffhere today with us.
So we have Dan Henderson and wehave Tony Jones and Stephanie
Castaneda, who are gonna help uswith this conversation around
the.
Help me out.
The language routines, what arewe gonna call this today?
We've, there's been so muchdiscussion.
Sometimes I get lost in theweeds of it.
And Joel and I are really ourlearners here today, right?
(07:25):
We are the ones who wanna knowand find out what are these
language routines and supportsthat we have for language
learners?
And I'm inspiring connections.
So who's gonna go?
It's gonna be the big debate.
Dan (07:38):
the question, what are the language routines?
Or is the question like, do wewant to situate that in?
What's up with ic?
Or how do you wanna
Misty (07:46):
Yeah, no, that's that is a good point.
Let's start with just what arethe, what are the math language
routines?
I know that one of the thingsthat Joel and I know is that
there is an increased focus,let's say, on language routines
and how those fit into thecurriculum.
So let's start with that and wecan segue it into how we are
supporting all languagelearners.
Dan (08:07):
Okay.
in that case we first saw themin this, paper out of Stanford,
by Jeff Fires and probablyscreening that name up and a
bunch of other people.
but there are some routines thatsupport student sense making and
optimize their output andcultivate conversations and
Misty (08:25):
Mm-hmm.
Dan (08:26):
Make the metacognition happen, and maximize that
language use.
So there's eight of them thatare listed in the paper.
a stronger and clear each time,collect and display critique,
correct.
And clarify.
Information gap co craftquestions and problems.
three reads, compare and connectand discussion.
(08:49):
Sports,
Misty (08:50):
Hmm mm-hmm.
Dan (08:51):
a bunch of subcategories in there, but that those are the
big eight.
Tony (08:54):
Well, one of the, the real issues and I think in IC we're
very aware of is how we positionlearners, all learners to be
successful, and one of those isto remove any barriers to the
access that they have to themath.
And if that barrier is language,then how do we remove that
(09:16):
barrier and help languagelearners access the math, and
how do we position them withinthe classroom for
Misty (09:24):
Mm-hmm.
And so these math languageroutines help with that?
Dan (09:29):
Yes,
Stephanie (09:30):
yeah, I, I was gonna say that, uh, we're all language
learners.
Misty (09:33):
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie (09:35):
and I think when we learn to utilize these math
language routines and, and welet go of the language barrier
that English has to be thelanguage that, we prefer or that
we push students to useprimarily, then we open the
doors for trans languaging.
And really then are theselanguage routine?
(09:58):
Most beneficial and usefulbecause it amplifies all
language.
It assesses students knowledgedespite the type of named
languages that they choose touse.
So I thought it was important tothrow that in.
Misty (10:13):
Mm-hmm.
Joel (10:13):
Yeah.
And I, I know as a teacher inthe classroom too, students who
were English language learnersor multi-language learners were
identified to me somehow.
and then I would have to come upwith something different.
So I think it's interesting thatyou're adding it to the
curriculum now with thisresearch.
Dan (10:31):
one of the things we've been thinking about is like
framing that not as, Englishlanguage learners as a whole
history of being framed poorly.
But then we shifted, we startedthinking uh, multilingual
learners or emergentmultilingual learners, or
something like that.
I.
Recently we've come to theconclusion that, named languages
are sort of the, the boxes thatdon't help us.
(10:55):
Everyone is a language or,
Misty (10:57):
Mm-hmm.
Dan (10:58):
so we come equipped with this whole repertoire of,
languages, but like ways to saythings and ways to communicate.
And we're trying to.
Let that happen the way it doesnaturally in our classrooms.
Misty (11:11):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dan (11:12):
Does that make
Misty (11:13):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (11:15):
And, it, it includes more than just the language routines.
I mean, a lot of our STTs, ourstudy team teaching strategies,
they have embedded.
Supports for trans languaging,gestures.
there's all kinds of otherthings that are part of this.
and I think, again, for me, thelight bulb went off when I read,
(11:37):
from Chival that it's about howyou position the
Misty (11:41):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (11:43):
so often students who may not speak.
a language or may not becomfortable speaking, that
language may not communicate asmuch, and then they're seen as
not knowing or understanding themath when that's not the case at
all.
It's that they're having troublecommunicating their
understanding.
So how do we, how do weencourage that?
(12:04):
How do we support that?
How do we draw that out?
I think that's a huge piece ofwhat we tried to
Joel (12:09):
Yeah.
Could you, could you talk alittle about, about what
translanguaging means?
Stephanie (12:14):
Trans languaging is.
just the idea of not reallythinking of language as named
languages.
That there is an Englishlanguage and there is a Spanish
language, right?
It's, it's not thinking aboutlanguage as named languages, but
thinking of language as a way tocommunicate.
It's one of the ways wecommunicate.
it's not the only way wecommunicate.
(12:35):
So the idea of trans languagingin a classroom is, raising your
awareness level of thedifferent, the many ways that
everybody in the room iscommunicating and welcoming and,
elevating the ways studentscommunicate as to not shut them
down if we're not using thedominant language of the
(12:58):
community.
Right.
So trans languaging is, I think,an awareness level of how
everybody in your area iscommunicating, whether that be a
classroom.
Or a larger community.
Misty (13:10):
So I wanna shift and talk a little bit more about the math
language routines and some ofthe ways they're connected and,
embedded into the lessons, intothe curriculum as supports for
these things that you're talkingabout, helping with trans
languaging and communicationwith students to be able to talk
about their math and theirunderstanding.
So how do they show up in ic?
Dan (13:31):
Oh, okay, so, they show up in a, in a lot of ways.
We're aware of the routines andso we've embedded them.
thinking carefully again aboutwhen each routine is helpful and
what it's helpful for.
Tony (13:44):
we were very clear that we didn't throw the routines in
just to throw the routines in.
We, we looked at a problem andsaid, how can this problem and
this routine come together tohelp students?
and so we were very specific andvery intentional on how we did
that.
and that's a support that'soffered that you don't have to
(14:05):
you don't have to go figure itout.
You don't have to try to like,come up with something you don't
have to rely on,, some other.
Aid or teacher or something elsethat, that they're embedded
right in there and they're, ourfront matter explains them and,
and they really, they benefitall students.
It's not just about students whodon't speak the,, dominant
(14:27):
language in that community.
It's about all learners.
It helps all learners.
Dan (14:33):
These routines are, they might be, the names might be new
to people, but a lot of theroutines themselves are common
in classrooms and good andshould continue in classrooms,
whether you call them a languageroutine or not, right?
Talk moves are a thing.
We just lump them in asdiscussion supports, convince
yourself and a friend and askeptic is a thing.
(14:56):
That's just, a version ofstronger and clear each time.
So these are things thatteachers have been doing.
the all we're doing is giving ita name and making sure we're
including it.
Stephanie (15:09):
Also I want to, say that inspiring connections,
because it's still true to CPMvalues.
It remains a social curriculum,and these language routines
thrive in a social curriculum.
So I, I also want to highlightthat even if these strategies
might feel new to you whenyou're using them within the
(15:33):
Inspiring Connectionscurriculum, it's gonna be a more
natural feel because of thesocial nature.
of each of the lessons.
Misty (15:43):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (15:43):
and it's true that social language developed before
mathematical.
Misty (15:48):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (15:48):
and so that that social element really does help elevate
students.
Misty (15:56):
So are these the kinds of things that I know a lot of
times when I'm working withteachers and talking with
teachers, the reading part ofCPM curriculum, because it is a
problem-based curriculum, canbe.
Heavy, right?
There is a lot of reading.
We have to decipher text, wehave to understand the things,
these language routines, arethey gonna both support the,
(16:18):
verbal communications and thingsthat are happening with kids,
and also the reading and gettingthose pieces of the curriculum
as well.
Dan (16:25):
There are a couple of routines, that are specifically
designed to make sense ofwritten text.
Like three reads is aboutreading the thing.
so yes,
Stephanie (16:39):
yeah.
Yeah, I would agree that, Thethree reads is a routine that is
gonna help with reading, butalso coupling that with a study
team teaching strategy such as,teammates consult or think pair
share, right.
Having the opportunity.
These things don't stand alone.
They, they don't work wellbecause if you do this,
everything's gonna go great,right?
Otherwise, we would've been onlyimplementing these things.
Tony (17:03):
Especially if you're struggling with language and,
and trying to communicate.
So a think ink pair share thatthink time is very critical for
them.
A teammates consult or a dyad, adyad where you can.
another student and borrow someof that language that maybe you
are struggling to try to find sothat you can communicate.
(17:25):
So there's so many of thosestudy team and teaching
strategies that just lead rightinto
Misty (17:32):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (17:33):
And, and again, the, they're for all students.
Sentence frames.
Sentence frames definitely helpstudents to, to be able to put
their thoughts down in writingbecause they can, they have the
sentence frame and just theyfill in the gap.
but it helps all students, cuzeven students who maybe they're
fluent in the dominant language.
(17:54):
They don't, they're not sure howto say it or what to say.
And so those sentence frames areright there.
And, and they're suggested, soit's not required, but they're
that like, that supports alreadythere when you go to teach the
lesson, there it is.
You don't have to come up withit.
Stephanie (18:09):
I, I was gonna try to make a connection to, pacing
and, reading and all that,that's important.
But I also think that there's alittle bit more of a balance
that you can still access thecurriculum if reading isn't Your
reading in English, I shouldsay, isn't your forte, because
we know students can read in avariety of languages.
So if reading in English is astumbling point, we've got
(18:33):
pacing that helps teachers to.
Joel (18:35):
Hmm.
Stephanie (18:36):
display what's needed.
So it reduces some of thatanxiety of feeling overwhelmed
by all the reading that mightpotentially be there.
But I also think we've done apretty good job of recommending,
teachers use strategies such asonly displaying an image if you
can get away with it in aparticular lesson.
Right?
So it's not gonna be as readingheavy as, one might think just
(18:58):
by looking at, at the.
Dan (19:01):
Yeah.
And that goes back to somethingwe've talked about before with
the oral instructions piece ofthinking classrooms.
Is it like we take that prettyseriously?
Misty (19:09):
Yeah.
And I, I think some of this alsofor me connects to the idea of
we learn language by usinglanguage, right?
We learn what words mean byusing them in context, and, and
we gain a sort of understandingof what a square is without
necessarily.
Writing the definition of asquare.
Right, It's one of the things Ialways think about, you could
(19:31):
walk up to lots of math teachersand they could tell you all
kinds of things about a square.
They probably couldn't give youthe actual definition of a
square off the top of theirhead.
Right.
The like key feature that makesit a square.
So that idea and that conceptaround these words, these math
words that we use.
Comes from lots of differentusages and lots of different
(19:51):
ways of interacting with them,and what I'm seeing is these
language routines can help getkids more access to all of those
pieces that will help them makesense of the mathematics and the
ideas.
Stephanie (20:05):
And, and as a teacher coming into the classroom with
the framing of trans languaging,driving a, a lot of what I'm
looking for as, as you weretalking about a square.
people listening aren't gonnasee this, but I saw you draw
with your pointer fingers afigure, and when I looked at
you, I could see and understandwhat you were saying.
And this is part of translanguaging, right?
(20:25):
When we communicate, we don'tjust use words, we draw things,
we gesture.
There are so many different wayswe can get our knowledge across
if we're open and again, awareof the many ways we communicate.
Joel (20:37):
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm thinking right now of this, this ex
totally expands the idea ofconcept map and the closure and
how you could do that and usethese routines in an activity
like,
Misty (20:49):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (20:50):
And, and we even talked about, when you look at, if
you're gonna use a word
Misty (20:54):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (20:55):
like what you do with that because you can have, you don't
have to have English onlydefinitions and you don't have
to have only text worddefinitions and so it, it's
opening up all the ways that wecommunicate and that's, you can
put it up for everybody to see.
Misty (21:13):
So as we start to wrap up this conversation, what are,
this is the time where I'malways like, what are the things
we didn't ask?
What are the other things thatyou want to say as we bring this
to a close
Tony (21:26):
I would say this though.
I think for people maybe whohaven't had a lot of experience
with trans.
Misty (21:31):
Hmm.
Tony (21:32):
And with multilingual learners, there's a trepidation
or a fear like, I'm not surewhat to do.
I'm not sure how, not only didwe embed the routines, but we've
explained and walked teachersthrough them within the
materials and between that andour professional learning, I
think you're going to feelreally comfortable using
Misty (21:53):
Hmm
Tony (21:55):
know, and I've seen other curriculums where you should do
this.
I'm like, I don't know how to dothat.
In this case, you will know howto do it.
I always say this, it's not,it's not rocket science, but
it's not an accident when ithappens.
It's a very intentional piece.
But, but you can do it.
And we've given those supportsin many ways to, to make it.
Misty (22:20):
Steph, did you have any last thoughts?
Stephanie (22:23):
I think one thing I do wanna share is that, when
these supports are embedded,it's important to note that we
aren't saying co craft.
questions for, multilinguallearners we're saying co craft
questions to support translanguaging because.
(22:47):
We want language to not be seenas a disability cuz it's not
with, it's been usedhistorically as a barrier to
education.
And, and we were veryintentional that through our
writing we wanted to bring downthose barriers so students truly
do have access.
and language is not a barrier.
Dan (23:08):
I was gonna say, I, we were gonna say something about, the
way the, the language routines,one of the reasons the language
routines are so powerful is thatthey work not just in a
classroom where one studentspeaks Spanish and everybody
else speaks English.
Or most of the students speakSpanish, and a few people speak
English too, but they work inmultilingual settings.
(23:32):
But when I was a teacher inBoston, I had classes where
there were like eight or ninelanguages, named languages and
probably a few that weren'tnamed, just floating around.
And so if you wanna, pull fromstudents who are all speaking
different, named languages athome, then these routines, help
you draw that out and help themcommunicate with each.
(23:55):
And that grows the mathematicalcommunity.
Tony (23:58):
it's a very good point because it really puts in
perspective.
the multicultural aspect in yourclassroom where all cultures,
all language, all discussion,all communication is valued.
And so like in Boston when youhad eight, eight plus named
(24:20):
languages in your classroom, ifyou have these routines and you
really start to embrace translanguaging, you're embracing all
those cultures and all thethings that these students bring
into the classroom from outsidethe classroom that we don't
often have in classrooms
Stephanie (24:37):
is it worth, is it worth noting that teachers don't
have to be.
don't have to be comfortable inall the named languages in their
classroom to, be successful.
Joel (24:48):
I think that's worth
Misty (24:50):
it circles back to the fear and trepidation piece that
was mentioned earlier.
A big part of what we're talkingabout here is that mm-hmm.
historically we've askedteachers to do something
different.
To do something to, Incorporate,include transition, whatever it
is.
And that I'm hearing two thingsI'm hearing.
(25:13):
One, reframing how we thinkabout the challenge and also
incorporating structures androutines that allow teachers to
do that without having to seeksomething extra.
And I think that both of thosethings, It's fabulous.
I think that is such a greatpiece to incorporate and include
(25:36):
in the Inspiring Connectionscurriculum.
I'm gonna say.
Thank you to three of you forspending this time having this
conversation.
And, we're gonna have one moreconversation in a couple weeks
to wrap up some of the logisticsand some of the other pieces
that are new, the digitalplatform we'll talk about and
some other things in inspiringconnections.
If you wanna learn more aboutinspiring connections, reach out
(25:57):
to your regional professionallearning coordinator
Joel (25:59):
Absolutely.
Thanks everybody.
Misty (26:01):
Thank you.
Master Outro Season 2 (26:17):
So that's a wrap for this episode of The
More Math For More Peoplepodcast, for more information
and to stay connected.
You can find CPM on both Twitterand Facebook.
The music for the podcast wascreated by Julius h and can be
found on pxa bay.com.
Join us for the next episode ofMore Math for More People.
(26:37):
What day will that be, Joel?
Outro 2.23 (26:39):
It'll be April 4th National School, librarian Day.
And I remember back in highschool, we loved our school
librarian quite a bit and thereused to be this, Obiwan Kenobi.
And I remember we made anotherportrait with our, the librarian
in Obi One's place.
And we stayed after school onenight and it was a big
extravaganza.
(26:59):
And we scaled the walls, we tookdown the obiwan and we put the
librarians portrait in itsplace.
And I remember we made.
The school paper and theadministration probably wasn't
that happy with us, but we, we,got a lot of props for showing
our love for the schoollibrarian cuz school librarians
really do a lot for schools andso it'll be fun to recognize
(27:20):
them and, and celebrate them onApril 4th.
We'll see you then.
Hello everyone.
It is March 21st, 2023, and thisis episode 23 of season two of
the More Math for More Peoplepodcast.
Cheers.
(00:28):
Hello everyone.
I'm Misty.
And I'm Joel.
And this is the more.
For more People.
Podcast brought to you by CPMEducational Program.
On this podcast, we discuss theCPM curriculum, trends in math
education, and share strategiesto shift instructional practices
to create a more inclusive andstudent-centered classroom.
We also highlight upcoming CPMprofessional learning
(00:50):
opportunities and haveconversations with math
educators about how they do whatthey do, and we always try to
have a little bit of fun andlaughter as well.
Indeed we do.
So come and find out whatshenanigans were up to on this
episode.
Boom.
(01:11):
All right.
Well, I happen to know that youhave some level of excitement
about this National Day today,Joel.
Joel (01:17):
I do have some level of excitement for all the days,
Misty (01:21):
I, I was gonna say that yes, that is true.
And, but a particular, I don'tknow.
I just feel like they have aparticular level of excitement
Joel (01:27):
I am pretty excited.
Slither in Pride Day.
Misty (01:31):
Woo.
Ooh, slithering Pride
Joel (01:34):
Exactly.
And I think my excitement comesmore because of my Harry Potter
fandom, but it's cause I don'treally identify as Slytherin,
but I'm excited that there'sthis day
Misty (01:46):
I just love that.
Identify as slitherin so I, Ihave, I have many thoughts as I
always do.
I mean, one, I'm curious sowhat, is there a, is there
Hufflepuff Pride Day and mean,are there other Harry Potter
House Pride Days?
or are there only Slither andPride
Joel (02:00):
It could be.
This is the only one I've everseen.
Misty (02:02):
an answer to this question.
Okay.
All
Joel (02:05):
Maybe they're not on Tuesdays.
I'm not sure.
Misty (02:07):
I mean, clearly we don't know a lot of national days, cuz
they're not on Tuesdays yet, butwe'll have to have the
Joel (02:13):
We're getting there.
Misty (02:13):
What, 16 years before we'll
Joel (02:16):
I think that's the official cycle.
I actually have no idea, but itsound.
Misty (02:20):
no, I think it's.
Joel (02:22):
that's a real
Misty (02:22):
maybe it's only, yeah, I think it is.
Yeah.
How many years before thecalendar repeats or something?
I don't know if it's 16 or ifit's now, I'm wondering if it's
eight anyway.
No, I think it is.
I think it's 14.
This is totally aside, butbecause you think about it, like
January 1st could start on aSunday, Monday, Tuesday,
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,Saturday, that's seven.
(02:45):
And or it could be a leap year,so that's times two.
So I think there's 14 officialcalendar.
anyway, so we might have to havethe podcast for a really long
time.
This is only season two
Joel (02:54):
I hope we do
Misty (02:55):
be much longer for us to get through all the National Day
ofs.
And there'll probably be somerepeats before we get to that,
Joel (03:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Misty (03:01):
be clear, because I think it doesn't just repeat every 14
years.
It takes longer for it toactually get to all 14 of them.
Joel (03:07):
Oh my gosh.
Misty (03:08):
Cuz you gotta get all those leapers.
Ugh.
We're in for the long haul onthe,
Joel (03:12):
we
Misty (03:12):
this
Joel (03:13):
are, we are, committed to finish this
Misty (03:14):
Pride Day.
And now I'm overwhelmed by howlong we have to do this podcast
to get all the National Daves Noanyway, so Slither and Pride
Day.
Okay, so here's my other thingis that I know that people do
this, I take these little, testsor whatever to figure out, I'm
sure there are online quizzes,right?
To figure out what house youwould be.
you ever done that?
Joel (03:33):
I have
Misty (03:35):
Okay.
And what did you get?
Joel (03:37):
Griffindor.
Misty (03:38):
Gryffindor?
Joel (03:40):
I was pretty happy about it too.
Misty (03:42):
Oh, well, okay.
Is that cause that's what youwanted,
Joel (03:45):
that's what I wanted.
So maybe that swayed me in myquestioning.
I don't know.
I don't know.
Misty (03:50):
It's possible.
It's possible.
I've never done one.
I don't think I've ever done oneof those.
So maybe that's what I should dotoday.
Joel (03:55):
I think that'd be a good idea.
Misty (03:56):
I should take a Harry Potter house quiz and see what
it tells me.
Joel (04:02):
And then you can let us all know.
Misty (04:04):
I could, I could.
Do you have any predictions onwhat you think I'm gonna be.
Joel (04:09):
No, I don't because I don't,
Misty (04:11):
You're not willing to go out on that
Joel (04:13):
I'm just not in the mind of the sorting hat.
Like I don't understand quitethe logic of it because it's
within somebody's ability tosort yourself.
But yet the sorting hat sort youkind of interesting
Misty (04:25):
Yeah.
They sorting, had what, liketapping into your kind of core
personality
Joel (04:31):
Yeah.
Misty (04:32):
other thing?
I just think it's alsointeresting the whole concept
that there's gonna take a wholebunch of kids who have very
similar personalities and putthem all together.
Joel (04:39):
Yeah.
Well, but is, is that the rule?
I wonder if that's not the rule.
There's a balance there thatsays I'm gonna put
Misty (04:48):
don't think that they take kids who are really, I
think the whole point is thatthey're putting kids who have
this similar, you know,personality.
I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I'm not gonna
Joel (04:59):
do you think it's similar to how you would make your teams
in your classroom at all?
Misty (05:04):
know because I would make those randomly I think that, I
think it's the antithesis
Joel (05:10):
you.
That's right.
Misty (05:12):
that's, yeah, that's the point.
So what are the characteristicsof a Slytherin person?
Did they, did they tell you thatin your
Joel (05:18):
that
Misty (05:18):
national Day stuff there?
Joel (05:19):
Not so much the, well, not so much the characteristics,
just that they are often lookedat as a little evil, maybe a
little sinister, that sort of athing.
Misty (05:32):
Well, they seem
Joel (05:32):
bad people, I guess, but yeah, sneaky, like
Misty (05:36):
Mm-hmm.
Joel (05:37):
critical thinkers.
Maybe I'm not sure.
Misty (05:41):
Well, I'm just wondering what a person who is a sli, what
they would have pride about.
That's all.
just being.
Proud to be part of a group.
All right,
Joel (05:50):
Indeed,
Misty (05:51):
if you identify as Slitherin, then
Joel (05:54):
your day.
Misty (05:55):
good on ya.
And have a great day.
And maybe someday the other oneswill come up and we'll learn
more about those houses too.
Joel (06:01):
That's right.
And I'm guessing you're RavenClaw.
Misty (06:04):
Oh, all right.
Well, we'll have to find out andmaybe we'll put it in some
secret place for people to findit.
Joel (06:12):
Love it.
Misty (06:13):
All right.
Have a great day.
All right.
Here we are.
Oh my gosh.
Is this our third one or ourfourth one?
(06:34):
Joel, help me out.
This is the fourth
Joel (06:36):
Three or four.
Misty (06:37):
All right.
Three No, no.
Which one is it?
Three
Joel (06:40):
Oh, oh four
Misty (06:42):
is our fourth, fourth one, our fourth conversation
about inspiring connections inour little series here.
And today we're gonna talkabout, I'm gonna, I'm gonna
struggle with some of thelanguage around this, but we're
gonna talk about languageroutines, math language
routines, and some other thingsrelated to multilingual
learners.
And we have three of ourwriting.
(07:04):
Curriculum and assessment staffhere today with us.
So we have Dan Henderson and wehave Tony Jones and Stephanie
Castaneda, who are gonna help uswith this conversation around
the.
Help me out.
The language routines, what arewe gonna call this today?
We've, there's been so muchdiscussion.
Sometimes I get lost in theweeds of it.
And Joel and I are really ourlearners here today, right?
(07:25):
We are the ones who wanna knowand find out what are these
language routines and supportsthat we have for language
learners?
And I'm inspiring connections.
So who's gonna go?
It's gonna be the big debate.
Dan (07:38):
the question, what are the language routines?
Or is the question like, do wewant to situate that in?
What's up with ic?
Or how do you wanna
Misty (07:46):
Yeah, no, that's that is a good point.
Let's start with just what arethe, what are the math language
routines?
I know that one of the thingsthat Joel and I know is that
there is an increased focus,let's say, on language routines
and how those fit into thecurriculum.
So let's start with that and wecan segue it into how we are
supporting all languagelearners.
Dan (08:07):
Okay.
in that case we first saw themin this, paper out of Stanford,
by Jeff Fires and probablyscreening that name up and a
bunch of other people.
but there are some routines thatsupport student sense making and
optimize their output andcultivate conversations and
Misty (08:25):
Mm-hmm.
Dan (08:26):
Make the metacognition happen, and maximize that
language use.
So there's eight of them thatare listed in the paper.
a stronger and clear each time,collect and display critique,
correct.
And clarify.
Information gap co craftquestions and problems.
three reads, compare and connectand discussion.
(08:49):
Sports,
Misty (08:50):
Hmm mm-hmm.
Dan (08:51):
a bunch of subcategories in there, but that those are the
big eight.
Tony (08:54):
Well, one of the, the real issues and I think in IC we're
very aware of is how we positionlearners, all learners to be
successful, and one of those isto remove any barriers to the
access that they have to themath.
And if that barrier is language,then how do we remove that
(09:16):
barrier and help languagelearners access the math, and
how do we position them withinthe classroom for
Misty (09:24):
Mm-hmm.
And so these math languageroutines help with that?
Dan (09:29):
Yes,
Stephanie (09:30):
yeah, I, I was gonna say that, uh, we're all language
learners.
Misty (09:33):
Mm-hmm.
Stephanie (09:35):
and I think when we learn to utilize these math
language routines and, and welet go of the language barrier
that English has to be thelanguage that, we prefer or that
we push students to useprimarily, then we open the
doors for trans languaging.
And really then are theselanguage routine?
(09:58):
Most beneficial and usefulbecause it amplifies all
language.
It assesses students knowledgedespite the type of named
languages that they choose touse.
So I thought it was important tothrow that in.
Misty (10:13):
Mm-hmm.
Joel (10:13):
Yeah.
And I, I know as a teacher inthe classroom too, students who
were English language learnersor multi-language learners were
identified to me somehow.
and then I would have to come upwith something different.
So I think it's interesting thatyou're adding it to the
curriculum now with thisresearch.
Dan (10:31):
one of the things we've been thinking about is like
framing that not as, Englishlanguage learners as a whole
history of being framed poorly.
But then we shifted, we startedthinking uh, multilingual
learners or emergentmultilingual learners, or
something like that.
I.
Recently we've come to theconclusion that, named languages
are sort of the, the boxes thatdon't help us.
(10:55):
Everyone is a language or,
Misty (10:57):
Mm-hmm.
Dan (10:58):
so we come equipped with this whole repertoire of,
languages, but like ways to saythings and ways to communicate.
And we're trying to.
Let that happen the way it doesnaturally in our classrooms.
Misty (11:11):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dan (11:12):
Does that make
Misty (11:13):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (11:15):
And, it, it includes more than just the language routines.
I mean, a lot of our STTs, ourstudy team teaching strategies,
they have embedded.
Supports for trans languaging,gestures.
there's all kinds of otherthings that are part of this.
and I think, again, for me, thelight bulb went off when I read,
(11:37):
from Chival that it's about howyou position the
Misty (11:41):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (11:43):
so often students who may not speak.
a language or may not becomfortable speaking, that
language may not communicate asmuch, and then they're seen as
not knowing or understanding themath when that's not the case at
all.
It's that they're having troublecommunicating their
understanding.
So how do we, how do weencourage that?
(12:04):
How do we support that?
How do we draw that out?
I think that's a huge piece ofwhat we tried to
Joel (12:09):
Yeah.
Could you, could you talk alittle about, about what
translanguaging means?
Stephanie (12:14):
Trans languaging is.
just the idea of not reallythinking of language as named
languages.
That there is an Englishlanguage and there is a Spanish
language, right?
It's, it's not thinking aboutlanguage as named languages, but
thinking of language as a way tocommunicate.
It's one of the ways wecommunicate.
it's not the only way wecommunicate.
(12:35):
So the idea of trans languagingin a classroom is, raising your
awareness level of thedifferent, the many ways that
everybody in the room iscommunicating and welcoming and,
elevating the ways studentscommunicate as to not shut them
down if we're not using thedominant language of the
(12:58):
community.
Right.
So trans languaging is, I think,an awareness level of how
everybody in your area iscommunicating, whether that be a
classroom.
Or a larger community.
Misty (13:10):
So I wanna shift and talk a little bit more about the math
language routines and some ofthe ways they're connected and,
embedded into the lessons, intothe curriculum as supports for
these things that you're talkingabout, helping with trans
languaging and communicationwith students to be able to talk
about their math and theirunderstanding.
So how do they show up in ic?
Dan (13:31):
Oh, okay, so, they show up in a, in a lot of ways.
We're aware of the routines andso we've embedded them.
thinking carefully again aboutwhen each routine is helpful and
what it's helpful for.
Tony (13:44):
we were very clear that we didn't throw the routines in
just to throw the routines in.
We, we looked at a problem andsaid, how can this problem and
this routine come together tohelp students?
and so we were very specific andvery intentional on how we did
that.
and that's a support that'soffered that you don't have to
(14:05):
you don't have to go figure itout.
You don't have to try to like,come up with something you don't
have to rely on,, some other.
Aid or teacher or something elsethat, that they're embedded
right in there and they're, ourfront matter explains them and,
and they really, they benefitall students.
It's not just about students whodon't speak the,, dominant
(14:27):
language in that community.
It's about all learners.
It helps all learners.
Dan (14:33):
These routines are, they might be, the names might be new
to people, but a lot of theroutines themselves are common
in classrooms and good andshould continue in classrooms,
whether you call them a languageroutine or not, right?
Talk moves are a thing.
We just lump them in asdiscussion supports, convince
yourself and a friend and askeptic is a thing.
(14:56):
That's just, a version ofstronger and clear each time.
So these are things thatteachers have been doing.
the all we're doing is giving ita name and making sure we're
including it.
Stephanie (15:09):
Also I want to, say that inspiring connections,
because it's still true to CPMvalues.
It remains a social curriculum,and these language routines
thrive in a social curriculum.
So I, I also want to highlightthat even if these strategies
might feel new to you whenyou're using them within the
(15:33):
Inspiring Connectionscurriculum, it's gonna be a more
natural feel because of thesocial nature.
of each of the lessons.
Misty (15:43):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (15:43):
and it's true that social language developed before
mathematical.
Misty (15:48):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (15:48):
and so that that social element really does help elevate
students.
Misty (15:56):
So are these the kinds of things that I know a lot of
times when I'm working withteachers and talking with
teachers, the reading part ofCPM curriculum, because it is a
problem-based curriculum, canbe.
Heavy, right?
There is a lot of reading.
We have to decipher text, wehave to understand the things,
these language routines, arethey gonna both support the,
(16:18):
verbal communications and thingsthat are happening with kids,
and also the reading and gettingthose pieces of the curriculum
as well.
Dan (16:25):
There are a couple of routines, that are specifically
designed to make sense ofwritten text.
Like three reads is aboutreading the thing.
so yes,
Stephanie (16:39):
yeah.
Yeah, I would agree that, Thethree reads is a routine that is
gonna help with reading, butalso coupling that with a study
team teaching strategy such as,teammates consult or think pair
share, right.
Having the opportunity.
These things don't stand alone.
They, they don't work wellbecause if you do this,
everything's gonna go great,right?
Otherwise, we would've been onlyimplementing these things.
Tony (17:03):
Especially if you're struggling with language and,
and trying to communicate.
So a think ink pair share thatthink time is very critical for
them.
A teammates consult or a dyad, adyad where you can.
another student and borrow someof that language that maybe you
are struggling to try to find sothat you can communicate.
(17:25):
So there's so many of thosestudy team and teaching
strategies that just lead rightinto
Misty (17:32):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (17:33):
And, and again, the, they're for all students.
Sentence frames.
Sentence frames definitely helpstudents to, to be able to put
their thoughts down in writingbecause they can, they have the
sentence frame and just theyfill in the gap.
but it helps all students, cuzeven students who maybe they're
fluent in the dominant language.
(17:54):
They don't, they're not sure howto say it or what to say.
And so those sentence frames areright there.
And, and they're suggested, soit's not required, but they're
that like, that supports alreadythere when you go to teach the
lesson, there it is.
You don't have to come up withit.
Stephanie (18:09):
I, I was gonna try to make a connection to, pacing
and, reading and all that,that's important.
But I also think that there's alittle bit more of a balance
that you can still access thecurriculum if reading isn't Your
reading in English, I shouldsay, isn't your forte, because
we know students can read in avariety of languages.
So if reading in English is astumbling point, we've got
(18:33):
pacing that helps teachers to.
Joel (18:35):
Hmm.
Stephanie (18:36):
display what's needed.
So it reduces some of thatanxiety of feeling overwhelmed
by all the reading that mightpotentially be there.
But I also think we've done apretty good job of recommending,
teachers use strategies such asonly displaying an image if you
can get away with it in aparticular lesson.
Right?
So it's not gonna be as readingheavy as, one might think just
(18:58):
by looking at, at the.
Dan (19:01):
Yeah.
And that goes back to somethingwe've talked about before with
the oral instructions piece ofthinking classrooms.
Is it like we take that prettyseriously?
Misty (19:09):
Yeah.
And I, I think some of this alsofor me connects to the idea of
we learn language by usinglanguage, right?
We learn what words mean byusing them in context, and, and
we gain a sort of understandingof what a square is without
necessarily.
Writing the definition of asquare.
Right, It's one of the things Ialways think about, you could
(19:31):
walk up to lots of math teachersand they could tell you all
kinds of things about a square.
They probably couldn't give youthe actual definition of a
square off the top of theirhead.
Right.
The like key feature that makesit a square.
So that idea and that conceptaround these words, these math
words that we use.
Comes from lots of differentusages and lots of different
(19:51):
ways of interacting with them,and what I'm seeing is these
language routines can help getkids more access to all of those
pieces that will help them makesense of the mathematics and the
ideas.
Stephanie (20:05):
And, and as a teacher coming into the classroom with
the framing of trans languaging,driving a, a lot of what I'm
looking for as, as you weretalking about a square.
people listening aren't gonnasee this, but I saw you draw
with your pointer fingers afigure, and when I looked at
you, I could see and understandwhat you were saying.
And this is part of translanguaging, right?
(20:25):
When we communicate, we don'tjust use words, we draw things,
we gesture.
There are so many different wayswe can get our knowledge across
if we're open and again, awareof the many ways we communicate.
Joel (20:37):
Yeah, I, I'm, I'm thinking right now of this, this ex
totally expands the idea ofconcept map and the closure and
how you could do that and usethese routines in an activity
like,
Misty (20:49):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (20:50):
And, and we even talked about, when you look at, if
you're gonna use a word
Misty (20:54):
Mm-hmm.
Tony (20:55):
like what you do with that because you can have, you don't
have to have English onlydefinitions and you don't have
to have only text worddefinitions and so it, it's
opening up all the ways that wecommunicate and that's, you can
put it up for everybody to see.
Misty (21:13):
So as we start to wrap up this conversation, what are,
this is the time where I'malways like, what are the things
we didn't ask?
What are the other things thatyou want to say as we bring this
to a close
Tony (21:26):
I would say this though.
I think for people maybe whohaven't had a lot of experience
with trans.
Misty (21:31):
Hmm.
Tony (21:32):
And with multilingual learners, there's a trepidation
or a fear like, I'm not surewhat to do.
I'm not sure how, not only didwe embed the routines, but we've
explained and walked teachersthrough them within the
materials and between that andour professional learning, I
think you're going to feelreally comfortable using
Misty (21:53):
Hmm
Tony (21:55):
know, and I've seen other curriculums where you should do
this.
I'm like, I don't know how to dothat.
In this case, you will know howto do it.
I always say this, it's not,it's not rocket science, but
it's not an accident when ithappens.
It's a very intentional piece.
But, but you can do it.
And we've given those supportsin many ways to, to make it.
Misty (22:20):
Steph, did you have any last thoughts?
Stephanie (22:23):
I think one thing I do wanna share is that, when
these supports are embedded,it's important to note that we
aren't saying co craft.
questions for, multilinguallearners we're saying co craft
questions to support translanguaging because.
(22:47):
We want language to not be seenas a disability cuz it's not
with, it's been usedhistorically as a barrier to
education.
And, and we were veryintentional that through our
writing we wanted to bring downthose barriers so students truly
do have access.
and language is not a barrier.
Dan (23:08):
I was gonna say, I, we were gonna say something about, the
way the, the language routines,one of the reasons the language
routines are so powerful is thatthey work not just in a
classroom where one studentspeaks Spanish and everybody
else speaks English.
Or most of the students speakSpanish, and a few people speak
English too, but they work inmultilingual settings.
(23:32):
But when I was a teacher inBoston, I had classes where
there were like eight or ninelanguages, named languages and
probably a few that weren'tnamed, just floating around.
And so if you wanna, pull fromstudents who are all speaking
different, named languages athome, then these routines, help
you draw that out and help themcommunicate with each.
(23:55):
And that grows the mathematicalcommunity.
Tony (23:58):
it's a very good point because it really puts in
perspective.
the multicultural aspect in yourclassroom where all cultures,
all language, all discussion,all communication is valued.
And so like in Boston when youhad eight, eight plus named
(24:20):
languages in your classroom, ifyou have these routines and you
really start to embrace translanguaging, you're embracing all
those cultures and all thethings that these students bring
into the classroom from outsidethe classroom that we don't
often have in classrooms
Stephanie (24:37):
is it worth, is it worth noting that teachers don't
have to be.
don't have to be comfortable inall the named languages in their
classroom to, be successful.
Joel (24:48):
I think that's worth
Misty (24:50):
it circles back to the fear and trepidation piece that
was mentioned earlier.
A big part of what we're talkingabout here is that mm-hmm.
historically we've askedteachers to do something
different.
To do something to, Incorporate,include transition, whatever it
is.
And that I'm hearing two thingsI'm hearing.
(25:13):
One, reframing how we thinkabout the challenge and also
incorporating structures androutines that allow teachers to
do that without having to seeksomething extra.
And I think that both of thosethings, It's fabulous.
I think that is such a greatpiece to incorporate and include
(25:36):
in the Inspiring Connectionscurriculum.
I'm gonna say.
Thank you to three of you forspending this time having this
conversation.
And, we're gonna have one moreconversation in a couple weeks
to wrap up some of the logisticsand some of the other pieces
that are new, the digitalplatform we'll talk about and
some other things in inspiringconnections.
If you wanna learn more aboutinspiring connections, reach out
(25:57):
to your regional professionallearning coordinator
Joel (25:59):
Absolutely.
Thanks everybody.
Misty (26:01):
Thank you.
Master Outro Season 2 (26:17):
So that's a wrap for this episode of The
More Math For More Peoplepodcast, for more information
and to stay connected.
You can find CPM on both Twitterand Facebook.
The music for the podcast wascreated by Julius h and can be
found on pxa bay.com.
Join us for the next episode ofMore Math for More People.
(26:37):
What day will that be, Joel?
Outro 2.23 (26:39):
It'll be April 4th National School, librarian Day.
And I remember back in highschool, we loved our school
librarian quite a bit and thereused to be this, Obiwan Kenobi.
And I remember we made anotherportrait with our, the librarian
in Obi One's place.
And we stayed after school onenight and it was a big
extravaganza.
(26:59):
And we scaled the walls, we tookdown the obiwan and we put the
librarians portrait in itsplace.
And I remember we made.
The school paper and theadministration probably wasn't
that happy with us, but we, we,got a lot of props for showing
our love for the schoollibrarian cuz school librarians
really do a lot for schools andso it'll be fun to recognize
(27:20):
them and, and celebrate them onApril 4th.
We'll see you then.
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