Ever had your toe stabbed by a mischievous cat? Join Joel and Misty as they share entertaining tales of their feline friends in celebration of National Cat Day. From childhood memories with beloved furballs like Perkins and Figaro to the hilariously challenging role of being a cat "manager," Joel and Misty navigate the whimsical world of cats. Whether you're a cat lover or merely cat-curious, this episode honors the quirky charm and unique quandaries of having a furry companion.
Switching gears, they dive back into their conversation with Christopher Danielson and the curious world of mathematics and the less-than-exciting methods of traditional schooling. Reflecting on their own journeys—both as students and educators—they explore how to make math a joyful adventure rather than a barrier.
You can connect with Christopher at:
https://talkingmathwithkids.com/
https://www.public-math.org/
https://christopherdanielson.wordpress.com/
Send Joel and Misty a message!
The More Math for More People Podcast is produced by CPM Educational Program.
Learn more at CPM.org
X: @cpmmath
Facebook: CPMEducationalProgram
Email: cpmpodcast@cpm.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You are listening to the More Math for More People
podcast, an outreach CPMeducational program.
Boom, an outreach CPMeducational program.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Boom.
All right, we're 29th, we'rebeing.
What day is it today?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It is National.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Cat Day National Cat Day.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Like domestic cats or any kind of cats.
It is national cat day.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
National cat day, yeah, wow, like domestic cats or
any kind of cats well, I'm justgonna go ahead and say any type
of cat, but it says thatthere's 40 to 70 recognized cat
breeds for just for yourinformation 40 to 70.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's quite a range.
Like recognizing officialgroups.
Aren't sure we recognize thisone?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
There might be some controversy.
There's some debate In the catgroups.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
There's a controversy around what kinds of cats are
breeds or not Interesting.
I'm really curious about whatthose 30 breeds are.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Me too.
Sigmund Freud said one timethat time spent with cats is
never wasted.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Freud said that time, that time spent with cats is
never wasted.
Freud said that Interesting.
If he had told me that quoteand said who do I think?
Said that I would not haveguessed Sigmund Freud, I didn't
know that he was associated withthe cat.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, he's not really .
I guess he said something abouta cat one time.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
He said something about a cat that has been quoted
, yeah.
So he clearly said it's notsignificant or interesting.
Are you?
Are you a cat fan, Joel?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You know okay, so this is a little complex for me.
I've been a cat I don't want tosay owner, because cats can't
be owned I think a cat providermaybe or a cat manager.
I do whatever the cat says,whatever that would be Cat slave
.
Yeah, cat slaves.
(02:15):
I don't mind cats, but catssometimes scare me.
I've been.
I've watched my friend's catswhen they are on vacation and
have been stabbed by a claw.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You've been stabbed by a cat.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, but I was laying on the couch and
this cat.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Wait, wait, okay, this needs more details.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so this my toe is hanging off the couch.
This cat stuck its claw rightin the end of my toe and that
upset me.
Yeah, of course, in allfairness, I also was messing
with the cat ahead of that, andso maybe the cat got when Tilly
was.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
A lack of boundaries of consent on both sides.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, they're trying to.
It was hard to negotiate forthe cat.
I would say so.
I would say so.
It says that here that 44% ofpeople say that they have owned
at least one cat in their life44% of people.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So four out of nine people that have owned at least
one cat.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Have you owned a cat?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yes, I have several cats.
I didn't really grow up withcats.
We didn't have cats when I wasin sixth or seventh grade, when
we weren't moving so much, butall our cats were outside cats.
It was very, very clear Catshave a purpose.
Their purpose is to be outsideeating things, right, mm-hmm?
And when I was on my own.
(03:42):
I've had cats most of my adultlife, until recently, and I at
some point the last two catsthat I had shifted to my cats
being predominantly and actuallyonly inside cats, because I
learned about how negativelyimpactful they are to the
(04:02):
environment because they justthey just hunt, it's not about
they're hungry, it's not about,and they just they are pretty
impactful to particularly thebird population in areas where
they live.
So I was I.
I felt it was a for me, it feltmore responsible to keep my cat
inside and so so, yeah, so Ihad to inside cats for a while
(04:22):
and then I haven't had any catsnow for probably like six or
eight years.
Okay, yeah, I mean, cats arefine.
I like cats that haveparticular personalities, like
they have to.
I really like a cat that likedoesn't mind being picked up,
wants to cuddle with you.
I like those qualities wants tocuddle with you.
(04:47):
Like you know, I like thosequalities, yeah, like a loose
cat that just exists in the samespace as me.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I I'm not as not as far yeah, my first cat was named
perkins and perkins um.
As a young child, I was giventhe choice to name the cat and,
and I was debating between twoof my favorite restaurants.
So is Perkins or Mr Steak.
And I ended up going withPerkins, which was good, and
(05:12):
that cat was the inside cat, butit got out and it ended up like
rabies.
I don't know something, but Iwanted to attack it all the time
.
So my parents took it to thefarm or wherever they take those
kind of cats.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It's a feral cat then ?
Mm-hmm, yeah, cats areinteresting.
Cats are interesting, for sure.
I don't mind cats, I just don'tparticularly want to have a cat
.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Did you ever see the film the Aristocats?
I do, I remember seeing that asa young child, that's a good
one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
What are you going to do for National Cat Day, joel,
I think, because I know you'rebig on celebrating all over?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I might not do anything for this.
You know I might.
I'll think about the cats of mypast.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Ah, maybe get out their pictures, look at them.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I'm still mad at my cat, figaro, who moved to Utah.
I was living in this apartment,so not very good ventilation,
so I kept the window open andFigaro loved to go outside.
And Figaro would then roll upall the outside cats and they
would come running through thehouse so then I'd have to close
the thing and then they're likespraying on my roof and stuff,
(06:29):
trying to get it figure out.
So I'm I have a lot of negativethoughts about work, but I'm
gonna try and that's how I'mgonna celebrate.
I'm gonna only think about thegood stuff about my kid.
That's like an ending all right.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, on that note how.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
How are you going to celebrate?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
If I see a cat today that seems like it wants to be
petted, I will pet it.
That's what I'll do.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That's a nice one.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, all right.
Well, enjoy National Cat Dayeveryone.
Woo-hoo.
So this will be part two of ourconversation with Christopher
(07:17):
Danielson.
If you haven't listened to partone, we encourage you to go
back to the October 14th podcast, episode 411, and take a listen
to part one of our conversationthere and then come back here
and listen to part two.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Enjoy.
So I want to, I want to slightshift a little pivot to.
I know one of your yourprojects is public, together
with the Minnesota Council ofTeachers of Math and with
funding from the Minnesota StateFair Foundation cooperation
with the fair.
That gives us the space.
I sort of thought, well, okay,this is great, like we built
this amazing thing.
But it was like an end of theroad and we'll go work on some
other projects at some point,but tied up neat with a boat,
(08:17):
but tied up neatly with a boat.
And I think it was in about thethird year that I started to
think, well, what if?
Instead of it being like theend of the road, what if?
Or of a particular road, whatif it's an example of some
larger thing?
And then starting to askquestions of myself and some
others about what's that, what'sthat larger thing that this
might be an example of?
And so about that same time Imet a fabulous former colleague
(08:43):
of mine, desmos Chris Ngo andMolly Daly, who does beautiful
work in Vancouver, washington,right across from you in
Portland.
Some really exciting stuffgoing on in their heads, and so
we started to collaborate and wekind of came to a conclusion
that one way to view math on astick is that it is a playful
(09:04):
and creative math experiencedesigned for a particular space
and a particular time, and thattime and place is Minnesota
State Fair that takes placeoutside 12 days.
Every year at this, the secondlargest state fair in the
country, 1.9 million people goto this fair over the course of
12 days.
It's enormous, and that itwould be fun to and exciting to
think about designs for otherspaces.
(09:26):
So, like, what are some otherplaces where we might do some of
that designing?
And so we started.
We brought some reallyinteresting and creative folks
together to do somebrainstorming and ideation and
playing around with it, and cpmgave us some money and so we
have some reserve funds that areenough for us to be able to
sort of execute small projectsas they come up, which, as a
(09:51):
former classroom teachers likeall three of us have been, have
been classroom teachers andhaving two or three hundred
dollars, like at the ready to doa project without it being a
big deal, is a big deal like,yeah, you need, you need two
hundred dollars in yourclassroom.
Good luck finding it.
So we're we're super, supergrateful eternally to cpm for
giving us the kind of fundingthat that makes that just not a
(10:13):
problem, got a little idea.
We want to execute somethingthat needs printing up.
We need some materials forsomething.
We can go ahead and give it atry and in return, we try to
share as much as we can thethings that we're doing.
So there's a public mathwebsite, public-mathorg, where
we posted some of the projectsthat we have been working on.
We've thought about and dreamedof some things that would
(10:35):
require a lot more funding.
One of the things we would beexcited for is the math bus in
which the right now outside mywindow there's there's a Metro
transit bus, right, your basiccity bus, and one of the things
that they do with city buses orwith light rail trains or subway
trains is they'll wrap themright with an advertisement for
the Minnesota Timberwolves orwhatever.
Like what is what if, insteadof it being an advertisement for
(10:59):
the sports team or for the bankor the pizza place, what if it
was math engagement?
That'd be super fun.
And then what are the thingsyou could do?
You could have little holesthat are cut out in various
shapes and your job is to try tocatch a rectangle as it goes by
inside of that hole and wecould use the space that's
inside, that's up above theseats, for little prompts,
(11:20):
because they do that with poetryall the time.
Right, ride the subway in NewYork City and there'll be
beautiful poems, right, thatdon't take very long to engage
with.
They're short, you know.
This isn't time for the Iliador the Odyssey.
It's short poems that arerelevant to the space.
Often, right, they'll be aboutbeing in public or about going
from place to place.
And so what if there were alittle prompt up there that just
(11:45):
asked you to count how manyshoes there were?
Right, and parents and a childare riding the bus and there's a
little thing up there, a littlecartoony thing.
If the kid can read, they do,and if they can't, they point at
it.
Parent reads it to them, andnow we're looking around and
seeing how many shoes are on thebus, or there's just a thousand
things we could do with thatkind of space.
We're excited about that kindof thing, but that costs more
money than we have, right, to beable to buy a bus and then have
(12:06):
the bus go out into the world.
So we're having conversationswith folks trying to figure out
how we might do that.
So yeah, we try as much as wecan to bring in interesting
voices, people who havedifferent perspectives.
A couple times we've used someof that CPM money to have a
public mass gathering where wephysically bring together five
or six interesting, diverseminds and spend a weekend
(12:30):
brainstorming and prototyping,and then anything we generate
we'll share on the site and hopepeople reach out.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And is it the kind of thing that people can present
or apply for ideas that theyhave with you?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
We are excited for conversations and, if there's
any way, we can support you inbrainstorming something.
I mean, chris now is anincredible graphic designer so
he can bang out a design for athing really quickly.
I got in my work here.
We both with my job and mathhappens but also my side
(13:02):
projects.
I'm in a workshop right thathas a laser cutter in the back,
so we need something laser cut.
We can catch something in orderto try out an idea that you
have.
Yeah, so we're excited forconversations.
We don't have money to givegrants, but we certainly have
money to provide some materials.
We've got materials that arelying around from previous
projects.
We're excited to share when wecan and support you in finding
(13:23):
what you need.
So you've got ideas cool.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So I guess in in looking at some of your stuff
online, I I watched a a littleclip of you talking with some
kids in what looked like alibrary or something and there
was a photo of a pie and some ofthe pieces had been taken out
and they're forks.
And then next to that was thesame photo, the same photo, the
(13:51):
same photo, to make an infinitesort of a thing.
What struck me is theconversation kind of went around
well, how many?
And then you had some ideas.
This, the kids had some ideas,and one of my favorites was well
, there's infinite amount offorks.
Well, no, there's only twoforks.
Actually, this is a picture oftwo forks, so that's zero forks,
(14:13):
like so how many do we have?
But it just.
Why do you think it's soimportant for kids to talk about
lots of ideas around math inthat way?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the play, right?
I think a lot of this I don'tknow.
So I as a math student was likeyou know, stuff always made
sense to me in school soteachers could show me a thing
and I would be able to do it andalong I went without any like
real passion.
But then, like in high school,I was just cruising along on
(14:44):
that and algebra and whatever.
And two contrasting experiencesLike one is I love Isaac
Asimov's book on numbersdevoured that as a high school
student didn't see have anyexpectation that what I was
reading about there would haveany connection to my high school
math work.
Like it didn't see have anyexpectation that what I was
reading about there would haveany connection to my high school
math work.
Like it didn't seem paradoxicalto me that I was getting like a
(15:05):
c in algebra one because I wasbarely doing my homework but
devouring this right, thisamazing writer's work about
mathematics at the same time.
And then the contrastingexperience I remember.
Interesting experience is Iremember one of the classic
algebra struggles is I've gotthree minus four X times two
minus X, and so I ended up atsome point I got the negative,
(15:26):
the minus four X and the minus Xare going to have to get
multiplied and I was like, butthey're both subtracting, like
what, it should just be asubtraction, right.
And she's like.
My algebra teacher was like no,no, no, no.
And the base, like all I couldget out of her was like you're
gonna need it for algebra too.
I was like this is a stupidgame.
I don't want to play this gameand now, as an experienced
(15:47):
teacher and I've had thoseconversations like the the
direction.
For me, the direction is allright.
Let's plug in some numbers,let's make x5, let's compute it
both ways and see how it comesout.
And doing it your way, it'sgoing to come out two different
answers and then we can move onright.
But no, it was.
This is, this is the way you doit and you need you'll need a
(16:09):
proud for it too.
So, like it reinforced that Ishould have no expectation that
the, the passionate side of theideas, would be connected to the
school.
So I, when I was doing thecurriculum work, was excited
about people who were doing workthat tapped into that passion
and those ideas and the whathappens if?
What happens if we do break therules kinds of work that can
(16:31):
happen in schools.
I think CTM does a lot of thatwork.
Matt did a lot of that work.
We did a lot of that work inour work at Desmos.
But I'm also interested in evenif we could never, let's still
open up that world right.
Let's keep doing the work forchildren that Isaac Asimov did
(16:51):
for me when I was a kid.
So, yeah, that's why I'mexcited about the ideas, because
children have ideas, no matterwhat age they are.
They have ideas about shapesand about numbers, patterns.
Why not make those joyful toplay with?
Absolutely.
So, really the only answer Ihave.
Your question is well, that'swhy would, why wouldn't you?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I wouldn't you get excited?
No, absolutely playing withthem.
But thinking about that teacher, then thinking about this play,
what, what kind of math do kidsreally need?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
like yeah, so I had a really fun conversation.
So we haven't mentioned theblog.
So I have a blog that I haven'twritten on as much these days
because my children are older,called Talking Math with your
Kids, where they start out in medocumenting my own kids' math
ideas and the ways they turn inconversations in our household.
(17:40):
The unique perspective on thisthat not every parent is going
to know to ask these questions.
But the more parents I can get,more adults I can get to read
like these possibilities, maybethe more of these conversations
will happen out in the world.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, now I forgot what the question was well, just
what kind of math do kids need?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
oh, yeah, so.
So this project and of coursemy kids knew about it.
Like I'm sure they could see itin my eyes just like I could.
I could seal it in my brainwhen one of my kids would throw
something out there and I'd belike, ooh, I'm going after this
idea.
So, like my kids were notunaware of of this project and
they had this really funconversation with my son one day
because I was going to like aparent math night or I was going
(18:23):
to talk with teachers, we'regoing to do a parentath night.
I can't remember exactly likewhat all the details were.
He knew that I was going to gooff and talk to him about some,
some adults, about this kind ofwork and he was asking what,
what is it?
What are you going to do?
Like I see you're going off,going off to do this.
He would always refer to it asmy math, that nerdy math and
(18:45):
stuff.
I was like, yeah, okay.
So let me tell you Griff hisname, let me tell you Griff
about this project.
Like my goal for this projecthas never been that you love
math the way I love math.
Like I can't make anybodynobody can make anybody love the
things that they love right.
Instead, my goal has been thatmath would never be an obstacle
(19:06):
for you in whatever it is thatyou want to do.
If you want to go into math, byall means, I'm here for it, but
you probably odds are you'regoing to want to go into
something else, but for lots ofpeople that becomes a barrier
and I want to make sure thatdoesn't happen.
And I can see again addressingthe child Griff you love more
than anything else to argue.
He's like yeah, if you lovemore than anything else to argue
(19:28):
, he's like yeah.
And I have seen over the yearslike I've seen a lot of times
where math is the basis of thatargument, whether it's about how
things are fairly allocated,whether it's about the
relationship between the priceper unit.
And I've seen you buildarguments about the world.
I've seen you build argumentsagainst me and your mom that
have a logical or numerical orpattern-based or shape-based
(19:49):
component to them.
So from my perspective, youdon't love math, fine, but
you're using it to do the thingsyou want to do.
Mission accomplished, baby.
And he was like oh yeah, youshould probably say that at the
meeting.
Then I was like I will.
And I was telling him aboutthis conversation for years to
come.
Yeah, so that's the project forme.
(20:10):
I would love for math.
When children have a passionfor it, let's support it.
When children just want todabble in it, let's support that
and let's do everything we canto make sure it's not a barrier.
It was a barrier for my wife.
She would very much havedescribed herself, or probably
still does, when I'm not aroundis like not a math person, right
, always headed math, barelysuccessful in school math.
She is an artist, does a lot ofbeautiful artwork in which she
(20:36):
has to think about shapes inways that school didn't value,
but that I can see the way she'scomposing things, the way she's
working with symmetry, the wayshe asks questions of herself
about how things ought to bearranged, like there's math
there, but I don't need toconvince her of that because I
want to keep moral harmony.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Good play.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
And I think there's some part of like you were
saying before labeling it asmath.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Yeah, you can see that brain shut up.
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
There's a preconceived notion for many
people based on theirexperiences in school math,
primarily that that I don't andwe can label it and call it a
different thing and but we'vedone that like as an institution
, as we're involved in right,we've done that absolutely to
people.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So I always apologize for that as well.
Do a lot of that math on astick.
Yes, people are telling me how,how bad they are at math or
something.
I get it.
I get it.
We did that to you, yeah.
But there's also I don't knowwhat you two think about this
there is a little bit ofmovements in the spaces we
operate in for us to tell otherpeople you are a math person and
(21:43):
I think about that.
I don't really I don't enjoyrunning.
I enjoy running if it's likeI'm a dog, like, and I think
about that.
I don't really I don't enjoyrunning.
I enjoy running if it's likelike I'm a dog, like after a
Frisbee to go catch a Frisbee,or like after a soccer ball,
like to go out for a five milerun.
I can't, I'm not interested init, it's not fun for me.
And if someone like I had thatconversation, if I were to have
the conversation with someoneand they were to tell me what my
identity is, I'll tell youwhether I'm a math person or not
(22:12):
.
So I try not to do much of thatwork.
Instead I try to fostersometimes people.
Their barriers are too high.
Even if you think you're not amath person, there's still
something fun that we can engagewith here.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You can still make something that is mathematically
beautiful to me, even if youdon't believe that it's
mathematical, and maybe there'ssome common ground yeah, totally
so, as we start to wrap up ourconversation, is there anything
in any of your projects orthings you're doing that you're
really excited about?
That we haven't talked aboutyet, but you want to be sure to
include here?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
well, I should mention the books.
So you mentioned how, andthat's the back cover of the
book, is the pies with thepicture of the book that is on
the page?
Of course it has to have thepicture of the book that's on
the page.
It was how Many?
That was the second one whichOne Doesn't Belong was the first
one with Stenhouse.
The real first book here's yourtrivia was Common Core Math for
(23:08):
Parents, for Dummies.
I wrote the Dummies book forCommon Core Math back in the day
and then there's a thirdStenhouse book.
So the Stenhouse books whichone doesn't belong, how many?
And then the third one iscoming out in March and it's
called how Did you Count.
And so, if you've seen how many,you described the photograph on
the back, but all the waythrough it's these gorgeous
(23:28):
photographs.
We hired an amazingphotographer and a food stylist
for how many?
So, like the pie, the crumbsare just perfectly arranged, and
all that we hired a differentphotographer.
And instead of it being takingplace in a kitchen for how did
you count it takes place in arec center here in city of St
Paul, my old neighborhood reccenter, and so I'm really
excited about the photographs.
(23:48):
I think of it as number talksmeets how many and, as with the
other books, there's a teacherguide that goes along with it
that builds, helps, supportteachers in thinking about where
if I think of myself in thisK-12 trajectory of children
learning about arithmetic andalgebra, in this K-12 trajectory
(24:10):
of children learning aboutarithmetic and algebra, where
what comes before what I do,where do I find what my kids are
likely to do, which is a widerspan than many of us imagine
when we first start teaching andwhere our kids going?
Yeah, trying to help teachersof a wide range of age ranges to
think about how these imagescan support kids' development,
no matter what grade levelthey're teaching.
The sweet spot for that book isprobably like third through
(24:32):
fifth grade.
But I tell you, these arephotographs I wanted when I was
an eighth grade teacher, when Iwas a college algebra teacher.
A lot of triangular numbers, alot of figurate numbers.
There's a tetrahedron ofbasketballs which I have not yet
left a fifth grade classroom,with everybody agreeing on how
many basketballs are there.
I have not yet left a fifthgrade classroom with everybody
agreeing on how many basketballsare there.
It's, it's hilarious.
(24:52):
Like you'll see it like kid,everybody thinks there's one in
the middle.
So it'd be like they'll havethis elaborate, I count them
this way, and then this is this,and at the very end it'd be
like and then one in the middleis one basketball.
It somehow is the core.
The core of this tetrahedronI'll house is the the core, the
core of this tetrahedron.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Right now there isn't , there's not one in the spoiler
.
That's pretty impressive.
You can put all the dashboardswith that one in the.
Yeah, is there one?
At least space for one, Iimagine, but still, it's a
filling problem now, that'sright interesting well thank you
so much for coming on thepodcast and having this really
wonderful conversation.
We appreciate your passion,your knowledge and skills, and
(25:33):
that you are still a learner.
I love that.
I love that you're stillrunning and doing things.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Appreciate it.
If you're in Atlanta for NCTMnext year, come say hi and the
invitation is always open.
Math on a Stick 12 Days of Funending Labor Day.
It's always a Thursday, runningthrough two weekends and we run
and ends on Monday.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Labor Day.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And we run entirely on volunteers to come on out,
help us out.
They'll have a good time.
You won't be the onlyout-of-town visitor.
We get a lot of extra time.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
So that is all we have time foron this episode of the More
Math for More People podcast.
If you are interested inconnecting with us on social
media, find our links in thepodcast description, and the
music for the podcast wascreated by Julius H and can be
(26:25):
found on pixabaycom.
So thank you very much, julius.
Join us in two weeks for thenext episode of More Math for
more people.
What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It'll be November 12th, national Pizza with the
Works, except Anchovies Day, andthis is an odd little holiday,
but we're celebrating pizza andthings like that and for some
reason they left anchovies offthis day Now.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I love a good anchovy on my pizza.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So it's interesting that there would be a day that
wouldn't celebrate just pizzawith the works, or perhaps there
is, but it's definitely not onNovember 12th.
So join us then, and well,Misty and I will talk about our
love of pizza and maybe our loveor not so much love of
anchovies.
See you then.
Thank you.
You are listening to the More Math for More People
podcast, an outreach CPMeducational program.
Boom, an outreach CPMeducational program.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Boom.
All right, we're 29th, we'rebeing.
What day is it today?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
It is National.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Cat Day National Cat Day.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Like domestic cats or any kind of cats.
It is national cat day.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
National cat day, yeah, wow, like domestic cats or
any kind of cats well, I'm justgonna go ahead and say any type
of cat, but it says thatthere's 40 to 70 recognized cat
breeds for just for yourinformation 40 to 70.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
That's quite a range.
Like recognizing officialgroups.
Aren't sure we recognize thisone?
Speaker 1 (01:06):
There might be some controversy.
There's some debate In the catgroups.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
There's a controversy around what kinds of cats are
breeds or not Interesting.
I'm really curious about whatthose 30 breeds are.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
Me too.
Sigmund Freud said one timethat time spent with cats is
never wasted.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Freud said that time, that time spent with cats is
never wasted.
Freud said that Interesting.
If he had told me that quoteand said who do I think?
Said that I would not haveguessed Sigmund Freud, I didn't
know that he was associated withthe cat.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Well, he's not really .
I guess he said something abouta cat one time.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
He said something about a cat that has been quoted
, yeah.
So he clearly said it's notsignificant or interesting.
Are you?
Are you a cat fan, Joel?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
You know okay, so this is a little complex for me.
I've been a cat I don't want tosay owner, because cats can't
be owned I think a cat providermaybe or a cat manager.
I do whatever the cat says,whatever that would be Cat slave
.
Yeah, cat slaves.
(02:15):
I don't mind cats, but catssometimes scare me.
I've been.
I've watched my friend's catswhen they are on vacation and
have been stabbed by a claw.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You've been stabbed by a cat.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, but I was laying on the couch and
this cat.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Wait, wait, okay, this needs more details.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, so this my toe is hanging off the couch.
This cat stuck its claw rightin the end of my toe and that
upset me.
Yeah, of course, in allfairness, I also was messing
with the cat ahead of that, andso maybe the cat got when Tilly
was.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
A lack of boundaries of consent on both sides.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, they're trying to.
It was hard to negotiate forthe cat.
I would say so.
I would say so.
It says that here that 44% ofpeople say that they have owned
at least one cat in their life44% of people.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
So four out of nine people that have owned at least
one cat.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Have you owned a cat?
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Yes, I have several cats.
I didn't really grow up withcats.
We didn't have cats when I wasin sixth or seventh grade, when
we weren't moving so much, butall our cats were outside cats.
It was very, very clear Catshave a purpose.
Their purpose is to be outsideeating things, right, mm-hmm?
And when I was on my own.
(03:42):
I've had cats most of my adultlife, until recently, and I at
some point the last two catsthat I had shifted to my cats
being predominantly and actuallyonly inside cats, because I
learned about how negativelyimpactful they are to the
(04:02):
environment because they justthey just hunt, it's not about
they're hungry, it's not about,and they just they are pretty
impactful to particularly thebird population in areas where
they live.
So I was I.
I felt it was a for me, it feltmore responsible to keep my cat
inside and so so, yeah, so Ihad to inside cats for a while
(04:22):
and then I haven't had any catsnow for probably like six or
eight years.
Okay, yeah, I mean, cats arefine.
I like cats that haveparticular personalities, like
they have to.
I really like a cat that likedoesn't mind being picked up,
wants to cuddle with you.
I like those qualities wants tocuddle with you.
(04:47):
Like you know, I like thosequalities, yeah, like a loose
cat that just exists in the samespace as me.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
I I'm not as not as far yeah, my first cat was named
perkins and perkins um.
As a young child, I was giventhe choice to name the cat and,
and I was debating between twoof my favorite restaurants.
So is Perkins or Mr Steak.
And I ended up going withPerkins, which was good, and
(05:12):
that cat was the inside cat, butit got out and it ended up like
rabies.
I don't know something, but Iwanted to attack it all the time
.
So my parents took it to thefarm or wherever they take those
kind of cats.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
It's a feral cat then ?
Mm-hmm, yeah, cats areinteresting.
Cats are interesting, for sure.
I don't mind cats, I just don'tparticularly want to have a cat
.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Did you ever see the film the Aristocats?
I do, I remember seeing that asa young child, that's a good
one, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
What are you going to do for National Cat Day, joel,
I think, because I know you'rebig on celebrating all over?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
I might not do anything for this.
You know I might.
I'll think about the cats of mypast.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Ah, maybe get out their pictures, look at them.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
I'm still mad at my cat, figaro, who moved to Utah.
I was living in this apartment,so not very good ventilation,
so I kept the window open andFigaro loved to go outside.
And Figaro would then roll upall the outside cats and they
would come running through thehouse so then I'd have to close
the thing and then they're likespraying on my roof and stuff,
(06:29):
trying to get it figure out.
So I'm I have a lot of negativethoughts about work, but I'm
gonna try and that's how I'mgonna celebrate.
I'm gonna only think about thegood stuff about my kid.
That's like an ending all right.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Well, on that note how.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
How are you going to celebrate?
Speaker 2 (06:45):
If I see a cat today that seems like it wants to be
petted, I will pet it.
That's what I'll do.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
That's a nice one.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, all right.
Well, enjoy National Cat Dayeveryone.
Woo-hoo.
So this will be part two of ourconversation with Christopher
(07:17):
Danielson.
If you haven't listened to partone, we encourage you to go
back to the October 14th podcast, episode 411, and take a listen
to part one of our conversationthere and then come back here
and listen to part two.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Enjoy.
So I want to, I want to slightshift a little pivot to.
I know one of your yourprojects is public, together
with the Minnesota Council ofTeachers of Math and with
funding from the Minnesota StateFair Foundation cooperation
with the fair.
That gives us the space.
I sort of thought, well, okay,this is great, like we built
this amazing thing.
But it was like an end of theroad and we'll go work on some
other projects at some point,but tied up neat with a boat,
(08:17):
but tied up neatly with a boat.
And I think it was in about thethird year that I started to
think, well, what if?
Instead of it being like theend of the road, what if?
Or of a particular road, whatif it's an example of some
larger thing?
And then starting to askquestions of myself and some
others about what's that, what'sthat larger thing that this
might be an example of?
And so about that same time Imet a fabulous former colleague
(08:43):
of mine, desmos Chris Ngo andMolly Daly, who does beautiful
work in Vancouver, washington,right across from you in
Portland.
Some really exciting stuffgoing on in their heads, and so
we started to collaborate and wekind of came to a conclusion
that one way to view math on astick is that it is a playful
(09:04):
and creative math experiencedesigned for a particular space
and a particular time, and thattime and place is Minnesota
State Fair that takes placeoutside 12 days.
Every year at this, the secondlargest state fair in the
country, 1.9 million people goto this fair over the course of
12 days.
It's enormous, and that itwould be fun to and exciting to
think about designs for otherspaces.
(09:26):
So, like, what are some otherplaces where we might do some of
that designing?
And so we started.
We brought some reallyinteresting and creative folks
together to do somebrainstorming and ideation and
playing around with it, and cpmgave us some money and so we
have some reserve funds that areenough for us to be able to
sort of execute small projectsas they come up, which, as a
(09:51):
former classroom teachers likeall three of us have been, have
been classroom teachers andhaving two or three hundred
dollars, like at the ready to doa project without it being a
big deal, is a big deal like,yeah, you need, you need two
hundred dollars in yourclassroom.
Good luck finding it.
So we're we're super, supergrateful eternally to cpm for
giving us the kind of fundingthat that makes that just not a
(10:13):
problem, got a little idea.
We want to execute somethingthat needs printing up.
We need some materials forsomething.
We can go ahead and give it atry and in return, we try to
share as much as we can thethings that we're doing.
So there's a public mathwebsite, public-mathorg, where
we posted some of the projectsthat we have been working on.
We've thought about and dreamedof some things that would
(10:35):
require a lot more funding.
One of the things we would beexcited for is the math bus in
which the right now outside mywindow there's there's a Metro
transit bus, right, your basiccity bus, and one of the things
that they do with city buses orwith light rail trains or subway
trains is they'll wrap themright with an advertisement for
the Minnesota Timberwolves orwhatever.
Like what is what if, insteadof it being an advertisement for
(10:59):
the sports team or for the bankor the pizza place, what if it
was math engagement?
That'd be super fun.
And then what are the thingsyou could do?
You could have little holesthat are cut out in various
shapes and your job is to try tocatch a rectangle as it goes by
inside of that hole and wecould use the space that's
inside, that's up above theseats, for little prompts,
(11:20):
because they do that with poetryall the time.
Right, ride the subway in NewYork City and there'll be
beautiful poems, right, thatdon't take very long to engage
with.
They're short, you know.
This isn't time for the Iliador the Odyssey.
It's short poems that arerelevant to the space.
Often, right, they'll be aboutbeing in public or about going
from place to place.
And so what if there were alittle prompt up there that just
(11:45):
asked you to count how manyshoes there were?
Right, and parents and a childare riding the bus and there's a
little thing up there, a littlecartoony thing.
If the kid can read, they do,and if they can't, they point at
it.
Parent reads it to them, andnow we're looking around and
seeing how many shoes are on thebus, or there's just a thousand
things we could do with thatkind of space.
We're excited about that kindof thing, but that costs more
money than we have, right, to beable to buy a bus and then have
(12:06):
the bus go out into the world.
So we're having conversationswith folks trying to figure out
how we might do that.
So yeah, we try as much as wecan to bring in interesting
voices, people who havedifferent perspectives.
A couple times we've used someof that CPM money to have a
public mass gathering where wephysically bring together five
or six interesting, diverseminds and spend a weekend
(12:30):
brainstorming and prototyping,and then anything we generate
we'll share on the site and hopepeople reach out.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
And is it the kind of thing that people can present
or apply for ideas that theyhave with you?
Speaker 4 (12:42):
We are excited for conversations and, if there's
any way, we can support you inbrainstorming something.
I mean, chris now is anincredible graphic designer so
he can bang out a design for athing really quickly.
I got in my work here.
We both with my job and mathhappens but also my side
(13:02):
projects.
I'm in a workshop right thathas a laser cutter in the back,
so we need something laser cut.
We can catch something in orderto try out an idea that you
have.
Yeah, so we're excited forconversations.
We don't have money to givegrants, but we certainly have
money to provide some materials.
We've got materials that arelying around from previous
projects.
We're excited to share when wecan and support you in finding
(13:23):
what you need.
So you've got ideas cool.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
So I guess in in looking at some of your stuff
online, I I watched a a littleclip of you talking with some
kids in what looked like alibrary or something and there
was a photo of a pie and some ofthe pieces had been taken out
and they're forks.
And then next to that was thesame photo, the same photo, the
(13:51):
same photo, to make an infinitesort of a thing.
What struck me is theconversation kind of went around
well, how many?
And then you had some ideas.
This, the kids had some ideas,and one of my favorites was well
, there's infinite amount offorks.
Well, no, there's only twoforks.
Actually, this is a picture oftwo forks, so that's zero forks,
(14:13):
like so how many do we have?
But it just.
Why do you think it's soimportant for kids to talk about
lots of ideas around math inthat way?
Speaker 4 (14:23):
Yeah, well, I mean, that's the play, right?
I think a lot of this I don'tknow.
So I as a math student was likeyou know, stuff always made
sense to me in school soteachers could show me a thing
and I would be able to do it andalong I went without any like
real passion.
But then, like in high school,I was just cruising along on
(14:44):
that and algebra and whatever.
And two contrasting experiencesLike one is I love Isaac
Asimov's book on numbersdevoured that as a high school
student didn't see have anyexpectation that what I was
reading about there would haveany connection to my high school
math work.
Like it didn't see have anyexpectation that what I was
reading about there would haveany connection to my high school
math work.
Like it didn't seem paradoxicalto me that I was getting like a
(15:05):
c in algebra one because I wasbarely doing my homework but
devouring this right, thisamazing writer's work about
mathematics at the same time.
And then the contrastingexperience I remember.
Interesting experience is Iremember one of the classic
algebra struggles is I've gotthree minus four X times two
minus X, and so I ended up atsome point I got the negative,
(15:26):
the minus four X and the minus Xare going to have to get
multiplied and I was like, butthey're both subtracting, like
what, it should just be asubtraction, right.
And she's like.
My algebra teacher was like no,no, no, no.
And the base, like all I couldget out of her was like you're
gonna need it for algebra too.
I was like this is a stupidgame.
I don't want to play this gameand now, as an experienced
(15:47):
teacher and I've had thoseconversations like the the
direction.
For me, the direction is allright.
Let's plug in some numbers,let's make x5, let's compute it
both ways and see how it comesout.
And doing it your way, it'sgoing to come out two different
answers and then we can move onright.
But no, it was.
This is, this is the way you doit and you need you'll need a
(16:09):
proud for it too.
So, like it reinforced that Ishould have no expectation that
the, the passionate side of theideas, would be connected to the
school.
So I, when I was doing thecurriculum work, was excited
about people who were doing workthat tapped into that passion
and those ideas and the whathappens if?
What happens if we do break therules kinds of work that can
(16:31):
happen in schools.
I think CTM does a lot of thatwork.
Matt did a lot of that work.
We did a lot of that work inour work at Desmos.
But I'm also interested in evenif we could never, let's still
open up that world right.
Let's keep doing the work forchildren that Isaac Asimov did
(16:51):
for me when I was a kid.
So, yeah, that's why I'mexcited about the ideas, because
children have ideas, no matterwhat age they are.
They have ideas about shapesand about numbers, patterns.
Why not make those joyful toplay with?
Absolutely.
So, really the only answer Ihave.
Your question is well, that'swhy would, why wouldn't you?
Speaker 1 (17:10):
I wouldn't you get excited?
No, absolutely playing withthem.
But thinking about that teacher, then thinking about this play,
what, what kind of math do kidsreally need?
Speaker 4 (17:19):
like yeah, so I had a really fun conversation.
So we haven't mentioned theblog.
So I have a blog that I haven'twritten on as much these days
because my children are older,called Talking Math with your
Kids, where they start out in medocumenting my own kids' math
ideas and the ways they turn inconversations in our household.
(17:40):
The unique perspective on thisthat not every parent is going
to know to ask these questions.
But the more parents I can get,more adults I can get to read
like these possibilities, maybethe more of these conversations
will happen out in the world.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Yeah, now I forgot what the question was well, just
what kind of math do kids need?
Speaker 4 (18:00):
oh, yeah, so.
So this project and of coursemy kids knew about it.
Like I'm sure they could see itin my eyes just like I could.
I could seal it in my brainwhen one of my kids would throw
something out there and I'd belike, ooh, I'm going after this
idea.
So, like my kids were notunaware of of this project and
they had this really funconversation with my son one day
because I was going to like aparent math night or I was going
(18:23):
to talk with teachers, we'regoing to do a parentath night.
I can't remember exactly likewhat all the details were.
He knew that I was going to gooff and talk to him about some,
some adults, about this kind ofwork and he was asking what,
what is it?
What are you going to do?
Like I see you're going off,going off to do this.
He would always refer to it asmy math, that nerdy math and
(18:45):
stuff.
I was like, yeah, okay.
So let me tell you Griff hisname, let me tell you Griff
about this project.
Like my goal for this projecthas never been that you love
math the way I love math.
Like I can't make anybodynobody can make anybody love the
things that they love right.
Instead, my goal has been thatmath would never be an obstacle
(19:06):
for you in whatever it is thatyou want to do.
If you want to go into math, byall means, I'm here for it, but
you probably odds are you'regoing to want to go into
something else, but for lots ofpeople that becomes a barrier
and I want to make sure thatdoesn't happen.
And I can see again addressingthe child Griff you love more
than anything else to argue.
He's like yeah, if you lovemore than anything else to argue
(19:28):
, he's like yeah.
And I have seen over the yearslike I've seen a lot of times
where math is the basis of thatargument, whether it's about how
things are fairly allocated,whether it's about the
relationship between the priceper unit.
And I've seen you buildarguments about the world.
I've seen you build argumentsagainst me and your mom that
have a logical or numerical orpattern-based or shape-based
(19:49):
component to them.
So from my perspective, youdon't love math, fine, but
you're using it to do the thingsyou want to do.
Mission accomplished, baby.
And he was like oh yeah, youshould probably say that at the
meeting.
Then I was like I will.
And I was telling him aboutthis conversation for years to
come.
Yeah, so that's the project forme.
(20:10):
I would love for math.
When children have a passionfor it, let's support it.
When children just want todabble in it, let's support that
and let's do everything we canto make sure it's not a barrier.
It was a barrier for my wife.
She would very much havedescribed herself, or probably
still does, when I'm not aroundis like not a math person, right
, always headed math, barelysuccessful in school math.
She is an artist, does a lot ofbeautiful artwork in which she
(20:36):
has to think about shapes inways that school didn't value,
but that I can see the way she'scomposing things, the way she's
working with symmetry, the wayshe asks questions of herself
about how things ought to bearranged, like there's math
there, but I don't need toconvince her of that because I
want to keep moral harmony.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
Good play.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
And I think there's some part of like you were
saying before labeling it asmath.
Speaker 4 (20:59):
Yeah, you can see that brain shut up.
Right.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
There's a preconceived notion for many
people based on theirexperiences in school math,
primarily that that I don't andwe can label it and call it a
different thing and but we'vedone that like as an institution
, as we're involved in right,we've done that absolutely to
people.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So I always apologize for that as well.
Do a lot of that math on astick.
Yes, people are telling me how,how bad they are at math or
something.
I get it.
I get it.
We did that to you, yeah.
But there's also I don't knowwhat you two think about this
there is a little bit ofmovements in the spaces we
operate in for us to tell otherpeople you are a math person and
(21:43):
I think about that.
I don't really I don't enjoyrunning.
I enjoy running if it's likeI'm a dog, like, and I think
about that.
I don't really I don't enjoyrunning.
I enjoy running if it's likelike I'm a dog, like after a
Frisbee to go catch a Frisbee,or like after a soccer ball,
like to go out for a five milerun.
I can't, I'm not interested init, it's not fun for me.
And if someone like I had thatconversation, if I were to have
the conversation with someoneand they were to tell me what my
identity is, I'll tell youwhether I'm a math person or not
(22:12):
.
So I try not to do much of thatwork.
Instead I try to fostersometimes people.
Their barriers are too high.
Even if you think you're not amath person, there's still
something fun that we can engagewith here.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
You can still make something that is mathematically
beautiful to me, even if youdon't believe that it's
mathematical, and maybe there'ssome common ground yeah, totally
so, as we start to wrap up ourconversation, is there anything
in any of your projects orthings you're doing that you're
really excited about?
That we haven't talked aboutyet, but you want to be sure to
include here?
Speaker 4 (22:46):
well, I should mention the books.
So you mentioned how, andthat's the back cover of the
book, is the pies with thepicture of the book that is on
the page?
Of course it has to have thepicture of the book that's on
the page.
It was how Many?
That was the second one whichOne Doesn't Belong was the first
one with Stenhouse.
The real first book here's yourtrivia was Common Core Math for
(23:08):
Parents, for Dummies.
I wrote the Dummies book forCommon Core Math back in the day
and then there's a thirdStenhouse book.
So the Stenhouse books whichone doesn't belong, how many?
And then the third one iscoming out in March and it's
called how Did you Count.
And so, if you've seen how many,you described the photograph on
the back, but all the waythrough it's these gorgeous
(23:28):
photographs.
We hired an amazingphotographer and a food stylist
for how many?
So, like the pie, the crumbsare just perfectly arranged, and
all that we hired a differentphotographer.
And instead of it being takingplace in a kitchen for how did
you count it takes place in arec center here in city of St
Paul, my old neighborhood reccenter, and so I'm really
excited about the photographs.
(23:48):
I think of it as number talksmeets how many and, as with the
other books, there's a teacherguide that goes along with it
that builds, helps, supportteachers in thinking about where
if I think of myself in thisK-12 trajectory of children
learning about arithmetic andalgebra, in this K-12 trajectory
(24:10):
of children learning aboutarithmetic and algebra, where
what comes before what I do,where do I find what my kids are
likely to do, which is a widerspan than many of us imagine
when we first start teaching andwhere our kids going?
Yeah, trying to help teachersof a wide range of age ranges to
think about how these imagescan support kids' development,
no matter what grade levelthey're teaching.
The sweet spot for that book isprobably like third through
(24:32):
fifth grade.
But I tell you, these arephotographs I wanted when I was
an eighth grade teacher, when Iwas a college algebra teacher.
A lot of triangular numbers, alot of figurate numbers.
There's a tetrahedron ofbasketballs which I have not yet
left a fifth grade classroom,with everybody agreeing on how
many basketballs are there.
I have not yet left a fifthgrade classroom with everybody
agreeing on how many basketballsare there.
It's, it's hilarious.
(24:52):
Like you'll see it like kid,everybody thinks there's one in
the middle.
So it'd be like they'll havethis elaborate, I count them
this way, and then this is this,and at the very end it'd be
like and then one in the middleis one basketball.
It somehow is the core.
The core of this tetrahedronI'll house is the the core, the
core of this tetrahedron.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Right now there isn't , there's not one in the spoiler
.
That's pretty impressive.
You can put all the dashboardswith that one in the.
Yeah, is there one?
At least space for one, Iimagine, but still, it's a
filling problem now, that'sright interesting well thank you
so much for coming on thepodcast and having this really
wonderful conversation.
We appreciate your passion,your knowledge and skills, and
(25:33):
that you are still a learner.
I love that.
I love that you're stillrunning and doing things.
So thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (25:39):
Appreciate it.
If you're in Atlanta for NCTMnext year, come say hi and the
invitation is always open.
Math on a Stick 12 Days of Funending Labor Day.
It's always a Thursday, runningthrough two weekends and we run
and ends on Monday.
Speaker 3 (25:52):
Labor Day.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
And we run entirely on volunteers to come on out,
help us out.
They'll have a good time.
You won't be the onlyout-of-town visitor.
We get a lot of extra time.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Yeah awesome.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
So that is all we have time foron this episode of the More
Math for More People podcast.
If you are interested inconnecting with us on social
media, find our links in thepodcast description, and the
music for the podcast wascreated by Julius H and can be
(26:25):
found on pixabaycom.
So thank you very much, julius.
Join us in two weeks for thenext episode of More Math for
more people.
What day will that be, joel?
Speaker 1 (26:36):
It'll be November 12th, national Pizza with the
Works, except Anchovies Day, andthis is an odd little holiday,
but we're celebrating pizza andthings like that and for some
reason they left anchovies offthis day Now.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
I love a good anchovy on my pizza.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
So it's interesting that there would be a day that
wouldn't celebrate just pizzawith the works, or perhaps there
is, but it's definitely not onNovember 12th.
So join us then, and well,Misty and I will talk about our
love of pizza and maybe our loveor not so much love of
anchovies.
See you then.
Thank you.
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