August 18, 2024 • 51 mins
Have you ever felt like you were living a lie, pretending to be someone you're not just to avoid conflict? Our special guest, Ryan Carrasco, certainly has. He shares his powerful story of transitioning from a life of manipulation and false religious identity to discovering a genuine connection with faith and love. His journey started in high school, continued through college, and was deeply influenced by his philosophical studies and pivotal meetings that truly weren't just a coincidence. Ryan's candid recounting of his struggles and eventual spiritual awakening offers a profound perspective on what it means to seek and find true purpose.
We also explore the profound lessons learned from trusting God's plan through life's challenges. From navigating personal trials to the intense emotions of spiritual certainty, we discuss how recognizing the Lord's presence in every aspect of our lives can provide strength and comfort during tough times. The episode highlights the significance of community, the power of divine orchestration, and the life-changing experiences that come with spiritual promptings.
Please reach out to me if you are interested in sharing your story! I would LOVE to hear from you. :)
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Episode Transcript
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Lily (00:06):
Hello everyone and welcome to, more Than Coincidence,
remembering Jesus Christ in yourStory.
As the author and finisher ofour faith, our Savior writes
personal experiences into eachof our lives which can later
strengthen, empower and bring uspeace upon reflection.
This podcast is dedicated tosharing these anchoring memories
(00:26):
from everyone's unique storiesin order to collectively
remember and testify of thereality of Jesus Christ and his
presence in our lives.
I'm your host, lily, and I'mvery excited to share these
experiences together.
Good evening, everybody.
Today we have Ryan with us.
How are you doing, ryan?
Ryan (00:44):
I'm great.
Thank you for having me.
Lily (00:46):
Can you introduce yourself a little bit for everyone?
Ryan (00:49):
Yeah, my name is Ryan Carrasco.
I am 34.
I have a wonderful wife and twoboys.
I graduated with a degree inphilosophy.
Most of my interests are inphilosophy, religion and history
and, yeah, I'm grateful to behere.
Lily (01:05):
Sweet.
Well, we've had a really gooddiscussion right before we
started recording, so I'vethoroughly enjoyed having you
over tonight.
So, ryan, what memories do youhave that you reflect on, that
prick your heart in remembranceof your Savior Jesus Christ, and
anchor you to him.
Ryan (01:21):
Man.
So I think for the one thatstands out to me the most, I
have to kind of go back a littlebit, um, because there's a
symbolism and stories that kindof build on each other, and I
think it's important to havethat context or at least it was
for me, yeah, as a foundation ofwhat my faith ended up being.
Yeah, um, so throughout highschool and a lot of college I'd
(01:45):
spent a lot of time pretendingto be religious to try to avoid
conflict and confrontation,where, when I was outside of
certain situations andrelationships, I was very much
expressing how anti-religious Iwas.
Yeah, so I was really justliving a false life.
It was rough and just entirerelationships, girlfriends that
(02:10):
thought I was a very religiousperson when I knew I was
absolutely not, and it was somanipulative, just not great.
Lily (02:16):
Yeah.
Ryan (02:17):
I spent a lot of time doing that.
Lily (02:18):
There are a lot of things in our teenage years.
I think everybody looking backwould be like it wasn't a very
good thing.
I'm glad that we don't have tostand trial for the things we
did as 15 year olds.
We would be condemned forever,oh man.
Yeah.
Ryan (02:35):
So just going through that , just kind of faking my way
through faith and religion andthings like that.
Yeah.
I grew up in a family in whichmy mother was a convert to the
church and my dad had beenbaptized, but his records were
lost immediately and no one wasever able to find or relocate or
(02:57):
redo them, as many people havetried to do.
Yeah, which is probably for thebest, uh-huh.
He went on to be very muchatheist, agnostic, alcoholic,
okay.
That was my dad, yeah, and mymom did not have a strong
culture of the church and lackeda lot of understanding there.
So like growing up it was justa little bit of pieces of church
(03:19):
here and there and that waskind of my understanding of most
religious things until Istarted studying things on my
own.
So getting to, let's say,college, by this point I guess
the effects of living this justmanipulative lie in myself kind
(03:39):
of started catching up with me,right catching up with me right,
because I could feel the lackof emotion, the lack of
connection, the lack ofunderstanding right I was going
to school and it was fine,didn't really care yeah I had a
girlfriend.
Lily (03:52):
It was fine, didn't really care right, so you didn't have
a lot of purpose or like meaningin your life.
Ryan (03:57):
No, no, no, no um, and that's kind of where the
questions started for me.
Yeah, the first question waswhat is love?
Lily (04:06):
and I'm looking at like an anthropological, you know, like
, okay, we have a multitude ofsenses and you know, it's not
just the five senses we talkabout we have, as many as you
know, 18, that some will arguefor physiological, biological,
all of these different ways,yeah, like how to describe love,
yeah yeah, and I'm like, well,okay, that's fine, that's what
love is, but like, what about?
Ryan (04:24):
like the type of love that can compel someone to do
something right, um great, oragainst their own self-interest,
or yeah, things like that.
Like that's not just umpheromones or a electromagnetic
pulse that they're picking up on, that's something bigger.
Yeah, um, and I'm like, there,there's, you know, in my mind
there was some type of eminentcosmological love out there.
Lily (04:48):
Because it seems like it was.
Is that something you felt?
Ryan (04:51):
It was something that I it's hard to say felt,
considering how numb that I was,but there was a ping and a
curiosity and something thatjust made sense to me while I
was thinking about it.
Yeah, that just made sense to mewhile I was thinking about it.
Yeah, and I was studyingphilosophy at the time and
there's a book called Works ofLove by Søren Kierkegaard.
I wondered becoming one of myfavorite philosophers.
(05:14):
But reading that, questioningwhat love is and what meaning
life would have with or withoutthat, that's kind of what got me
on the path.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah.
Ryan (05:26):
So I think it's important that I tell this um, there's a
time where my mom was reallyupset with me for the life that
she saw me living and set up ameeting with our bishop at the
time to do a.
Um, was it a tithing?
Lily (05:41):
a tithing.
Settlement settlement yes, umso, settlement Settlement, yes,
uh-huh uh-huh.
Ryan (05:45):
So I walk in.
I'd never seen this bishopbefore.
Yeah, I walk in.
He prints out a paper, he goes.
It looks like you have neverpaid tithing.
I'm like, yeah, that's accurate, he goes.
Okay, he goes.
Is there anything I can do foryou?
And in my mind I just kind ofwanted to get him to stop
talking to me because I know hesent out, you know, missionaries
and home teachers and whoeverit is to try to talk to me and I
(06:08):
was trying to avoid them at anypoint that I could, and I
didn't want my mom to get upset.
So I went to this meeting and sohe says is there anything I can
do for him?
Like well, I think apatriarchal blessing would be
good.
You know, I think that would befascinating.
And he goes.
No, he's like.
He's looking at me like I'venever seen you in my life.
You're walking in here like yeah, I've talked to your mom, I
(06:30):
know what you're doing, yeah,but he's looking at me and then
he just kind of like settlesdown and just gives this deep
sigh.
And he looks at me and says Ifeel that you are in a lake
swimming, treading water, and atany shore that you swim to
there's an excellent opportunitywhere you could excel, but you
(06:52):
refuse to swim.
I'm just looking at it like theaudacity.
Lily (06:57):
Yeah, how dare you.
Ryan (07:00):
And he goes.
Can I give you a challenge?
I'm just like again looking athim, like well, that's okay,
fascinating you know well that'sokay.
Fascinating.
You know who are you, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
He says will you read these verses from the Book?
Ryan (07:15):
of Mormon and pray about them diligently to see if it is
true.
And I said fine.
So he gives me these verses toread Moroni, chapter 10, 3
through 5, and so that night Iget home um after this, you know
, very intense and strangemeeting with this bishop that I
didn't know right um, I gooutside when my whole family's
(07:35):
asleep, I get the book of mormonand I'm reading it by moonlight
and I'm reading and prayingangrily because I did not want
to read and pray but I alsodidn't want to like go back on
the word that I was going to doit.
Lily (07:48):
Right, You're like I will paddle one direction.
Ryan (07:51):
I'm going to show you which way I'm going to go, I'm
going to swim so fast and solike I was really angry about it
and like arrogant, and I'm likeI'm going to read this and I'm
going to pray.
And if the resurrected prophetElijah does not show himself to
me, then I will know that thisis false.
Yeah, like that was thearrogance that I approached it
with.
Yeah, and because of thearrogance I approached it with,
(08:14):
I got nothing.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Right.
Ryan (08:15):
I was demanding for, like the moon to explode and angels
to pour out of it, to prove tome specifically.
Lily (08:25):
Right.
Ryan (08:25):
Me, who was not living in any type of good life, right um
to prove that this thing washappening, that I also did not
want to be true yeah so likewhere was the faith?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
where was?
Ryan (08:33):
the due diligence.
There there was nothing rightand months go by from this point
, but I'm still having thatfeeling of what is love and I'm
feeling that my relationship isfailing.
Lily (08:44):
I'm not happy, I'm right just like living this weird life
, but I still have that like youdidn't love yourself, like that
was probably part of it too.
Ryan (08:53):
100 yeah my feelings towards myself were just misery
and discontent yeah, and becauseof this internal conflict, yeah
and I recognized that I wasn'tfeeling emotions and that
bothered me too.
Like this isn't a good sign,this is a symptom of something
much worse.
Lily (09:08):
Yeah, I feel broken.
Ryan (09:10):
Yeah, and so I started meeting with religious leaders
and professors.
I went to my philosophyprofessor, who was known for
taking a stance of defense ofreligion from philosophical
attacks, which I thought wasinteresting.
I talked to him about it.
Lily (09:31):
Right.
Ryan (09:32):
And a few times I was just in his office or in his
colleagues' offices and justsaying it sounds like your soul
is crying out for you.
Maybe you should reach intothat.
Like weird Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah.
Ryan (09:47):
If that's a thing, then I I'm gonna look into it.
Um, I met with?
Um a number of evangelicalpreachers.
Um, I I went to a few events.
Um, for ramadan with somemuslim friends cool.
I went to a synagogue andstudied with some rabbis.
Um, I learned meditation from anumber of Buddhist monks.
I went everywhere that I couldto try to just find something,
(10:12):
ended up breaking up with a girlthat I was at or that I was
dating at the time, and it justfelt like, okay, you're taking
more steps, you're getting tosomething.
And during this whole time Iwas getting text messages from
our young men's leader in theward saying, hey, we're having
(10:34):
priesthood prep meeting.
You should come to these,because I had not received the
priesthood Right and I'm justlike I'm way older.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah.
Ryan (10:42):
Like who gave you my phone number?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know just, I'm way older.
Yeah, Like who gave you myphone number?
You know just, I would neverrespond.
Ryan (10:46):
Yeah, I also made sure that I was working on Sundays,
which they usually have theirmeetings on Sundays.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah.
Ryan (10:52):
And there was one day in particular, the jeweler that I
was working for had a bigdiamond event and we had to call
all of our high end customersto come buy diamonds, because
you could get finance for twoyears without interest or
something.
Yeah, customers to come buydiamonds because you could get
financed for two years withoutinterest or something.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, it's like a 14 hour day of me just trying to
sell stupid expensive diamondsto the most obnoxious customers.
Lily (11:13):
Let's be real, yeah it was also.
Ryan (11:16):
I'm a basketball fan.
I grew up in la.
I saw the lakers the first timewhen I was like two years old,
yeah, and it was the lakersplaying the celtics in the so
you definitely had somewhereelse you wanted to yeah, so I
get home after this long andobnoxious day at work and I was
getting text messages repeatedlyall day, which you've never
done before to go to thispriesthood prep meeting.
(11:37):
Yeah, I get home, I lay on thecouch, I'm watching the nba
finals and then I decide I'mjust going to go to his house
Now.
I was so tired and so annoyedand I wanted to watch the team
you know, my team play in thefinals.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah.
Ryan (11:52):
And I went to this stranger's house.
Yeah, Now I can't explain whatcompelled me to do this.
Lily (11:57):
I was going to say what that rationale was.
Ryan (12:00):
Because I was still in, like my jeweler clothes, like I
look like just an off-brandaccountant yeah.
Oh man, but I show up very late.
There's a bunch of like 15, 16year old kids there at this
guy's house.
Lily (12:16):
You're like.
Ryan (12:17):
I don't fit in here.
Well, definitely, and they wereshocked that I was there.
Yeah, one guy opened the doorand he was like who are you?
Yeah, and it was so funnybecause they were already eating
their brownies and soda andwhatever you're like.
I'm just here for the desserts,man basically, but they bring
(12:37):
me in and they sit me down inthe living room and there's like
all the kids that are sittingthere eating their cookies and
then there's the elders quorumpresident and one of the young
men, advisors I think, and thenthey start grilling me and he
says why did you come here?
And I'm like, I'm really notsure.
He said do you have a testimonyof Jesus Christ?
I'm like I really I don't knowLike.
(12:59):
Do you believe that the Book ofMormon is the word of God?
I don't know Like.
Do you believe that the um, thegospel, has been restored
through the prophet joseph smith?
I don't know.
Do you believe that thomas smonzen is a prophet of god?
I don't know.
But can you help me?
yeah, because I came here forsomething right and so they're
sitting there, you know, justdrilling me with their cookies
(13:21):
and milk.
Well, I'm literally seated bymyself in the middle of a room
surrounded by couches, whereeveryone else is seated, and
yeah one brother pulls out hisbook of Mormon.
(13:44):
He says I'm going to readsomething to you and you better
listen, because I'm only goingto say it once and it's the most
important thing you will everhear.
And once again I'm like theaudacity of this man, but he had
my interest.
Lily (14:02):
Yeah.
Ryan (14:02):
I was in his home.
Lily (14:03):
Right.
Ryan (14:05):
So I'm just looking at him waiting, feeling that I'd done
something right for the firsttime in a long time.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah.
Ryan (14:15):
He opens up and he starts reading, and I just black out.
Lily (14:20):
Like literally.
Ryan (14:21):
Not literally, it was just an absence of sensation
Interesting.
I couldn't.
An absence of sensationInteresting.
I couldn't see, hear anything.
It was just kind of like acolorless void in which I could
hear not really hear, but feeltwo things.
One is you have your direction,now swim.
And the other one was this isright, keep swimming.
(14:45):
Okay, oh, wow okay.
So when I kind of come to, yeah,tears pouring out of my face
and I'm laughing really hardyeah and I look over at the
brother who was speaking hisscriptures are put away by that
point and he says and that's howI know this is true.
(15:06):
And I'm just like I have noidea what you just said.
Yeah, one of the advisors looksat me and he sees that I'm kind
of in a distressed state.
He goes what just happened toyou?
And I said I'm not sure, but Ithink you all just witnessed a
conversion.
And so they're just looking atme Just to remember all the 15
(15:28):
year olds with their cookies.
Lily (15:31):
I'm so glad I came to this tonight.
This is so awesome.
Ryan (15:34):
We should do this more often.
So I'm just like in shock, likewhat just happened, and I just
had that vision in my mind ofwhat the bishop had told me
months prior.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yes.
Ryan (15:45):
Like you're swimming.
Right, you've picked a shore.
Yes, you're on the way.
So there I was, like I wenthome that night, talked to my
mom earnestly and openly for thefirst time in years, reconciled
some things with her, and then,because everyone in the family
ward knew too much about me, Iwent to a singles ward, probably
(16:08):
for the best.
Lily (16:09):
They didn't know me.
Ryan (16:12):
And I just walked up to the bishop and I go like, hey,
um, yeah, I kind of believe inthis.
I think I'm supposed to serve amission, right?
He's like, well, let's, let'sdo some other stuff first.
Yeah, he's like let's startwith transferring your records
over and then we can talk andsee you know what things need to
get done yeah, um, but yeah,there was.
There was a lot of other thingsthat went into it, um, groups of
(16:33):
friends who were like secretlyplotting on trying to get me to
church, um, who would visit myhome and leave notes and things
randomly, or just there therewere a lot of forces at work,
but, um, the strangemachinations and orchestrations
of what the Lord was able to doto get me away from that
nothingness and into a life ofpurpose, and then to find
(16:58):
something that I thought I hadnever deserved, which was
forgiveness.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Right.
Ryan (17:05):
I carried that anger toward myself for so long and
then to finally feel that youcan be a missionary.
It doesn't matter if you'reolder than all the other ones.
Like right.
It doesn't matter that you werean enemy of the church, it
wasn't.
Doesn't matter that you wereagainst the notion of god for so
long.
Like you can live now as anexample of the faith and
(17:26):
testimony you've been givenright.
And it's not about forgivenessbeing earned, it's it being
graciously granted to you sowhat?
Do you do with that?
and so living as a missionary.
I just wanted to live up tothat promise yeah, did you feel
like you found love?
Lily (17:44):
like you found because I feel like that's kind of seemed
what started your journey waswhat is love?
And Christ is the epitome oflove, right?
So do you feel like you wereable to find that, or you still
hadn't quite answered thatquestion yet?
Ryan (17:57):
There was a lingering thought of me still not
deserving forgiveness becausethat was an overwhelming feeling
, going through multipleprocesses of repentance Right To
the point where I could serve amission Right.
But every time that would come,and every time I felt that that
love and that gratitude I stillfelt undeserving yeah but it
(18:22):
was undoubtable to me, knowinghow it had helped heal my
relationship, a very strangerelationship, with my mother
yeah and also learning toappreciate myself, see myself
through terms of like, love andunderstanding right, like I'm
not a despicable human being,yes, like I have value and it's
(18:42):
okay to have value.
I I think often.
There's a verse in Joel thattalks about the years that are
lost to the harvest being, orthe year the harvest lost to the
locust being restored to you.
So even all those years thathad been lost to, whether plague
(19:05):
or famine, drought or just umbad people not farming Well,
whatever it is whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
it is drought, or just bad people not farming,
well, yeah, whatever it is, theatonement means that not all of
that is permanently lost.
Ryan (19:24):
Anything can be restored, and so, for me, one of the best
examples of that is like when Iwas a missionary.
I didn't have seminary, Ididn't have institute.
I barely knew what the plan ofsalvation was.
Lily (19:34):
Yeah, but it was.
You're literally aninvestigator on your mission too
.
Ryan (19:37):
Yeah, and it was restored.
Yeah.
Like I found myselfunderstanding scriptures in ways
that I didn't know that I couldand I'm like oh, wow, what an
example of the atonement thateverything that I had
intentionally neglected for adecade is being restored, now
that I'm receptive.
Lily (19:56):
Right.
Ryan (20:00):
That was, I think, a powerful and beautiful
foundation for me to realizewhat it was precisely that I was
converted to.
Lily (20:08):
Right, exactly that I was converted to Right.
Ryan (20:12):
Exactly, oh man, yeah, there's a lot to it, but really
just thinking it was a desirefor love that set me on the
journey.
And then, a year later, alittle more than a year later,
but it was a long, painful roadit felt like you know a
millennia, but it was only ayear.
But like I had to change myself,my personality, the people I
(20:34):
was spending time with all thesethings to just try to get
myself in a position to where Ifelt that I could live my life
in such a way to receive and beworthy of that love Right
Understanding, just like thedaily doses of grace that could
be there.
Like that was so important tome that I was just never there.
(20:54):
Before the thought was yeahthere right so yeah, that's, I
think, a big part of myconversion story.
Oh man, when I think of the twomost powerful instances of just
divine orchestration in my lifewould be one, me coming to
(21:16):
church and serving a mission andthen two getting married, I
think often of now I can'tremember the scripture, and how
I can't remember the scripture.
It's in Isaiah and in Nephi,talking about how we are called
(21:37):
in the furnace of affliction.
Lily (21:38):
Yes.
Ryan (21:40):
Right and what that means.
Like to be called, to be chosen, to be set apart for the
furnace.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Furnace yeah.
Ryan (21:47):
Yeah, but what a gift.
That can be Right, because inwhat other situations are we
willingly allowing ourselves tobe molded and shaped into a
reflection of the Lord, todevelop those characteristics in
an extremely efficient butpainful way?
Lily (22:07):
Right.
And honestly, the mostefficient way.
Like, let's just be real.
Yeah, like you can't go aroundit.
You can't go over it, you can'tlike you.
It's literally something youhave to go straight through in
order to to come out.
The other side what you need tobe it's really powerful to me.
Ryan (22:24):
I think in in a couple ways.
I think recently I've beenworking with a few people who've
been, you know, struggling witha number of things, and it's
weird to me that they've come tome for help.
I'm far from a professional inanything.
Lily (22:39):
You're easy to talk to.
Ryan (22:42):
And I have a little bit of a background in mental health.
But the reason I was hiredthere was because of my faith.
They wanted me to be able tohelp out the people who are
suffering from variousaddictions within the church
community.
Right, so I'm grateful for thatbackground.
But talking about what it meansto have a community of healing
(23:03):
and people who've experiencedthe atonement, the same way that
Christ talks about how hecondescended below all things so
that we can overcome all thingsRight, and we do that in can
overcome all things Right.
And we do that in our own littleways.
Yes, and so, having gonethrough the furnace of
affliction, we're climbing up amountain, and when we see others
struggling on that samemountain, we can help them up
(23:24):
the path.
You know, you can't helpsomeone climb a mountain that
you're not on or haven't climbedyourself.
You know.
Exactly help someone climb amountain that you're not on or
haven't climbed yourself.
You know exactly, and so that'sone instance in which it's
interesting having gone throughtrials and then seeing how
powerful that can be on theother side.
But in another sense I think ofyou know, when I got back from
my mission, I go to virginia, um, and I'm studying at southern
(23:49):
virginia for a while, and that'sjust when things really start
falling apart.
We're going through a number ofdeaths in the family, divorce,
disease, homelessness, just awhole bunch of crazy stuff
happens.
And I'm on the other side ofthe country, my family's in the
LA area and I'm in SouthernVirginia.
Lily (24:08):
Shout out to Buena Vista yeah.
It's a beautiful place.
Ryan (24:15):
It, yeah, and I could not be happy there um right
fantastic just mind.
Lily (24:20):
In your heart was just other places yeah, I, I could
not concentrate.
Ryan (24:24):
Yeah, it was so hard for me to be there and every time I
got a phone call it was just badnews.
Yeah, um you, you know just mymom calling.
Hey, just letting you know.
You know your dad and I areseparating.
Or hey, just letting you know,like your grandfather has
Alzheimer's.
Hey, just letting you know yourfavorite uncle has ALS.
Now, you know, just like.
Lily (24:41):
Wow.
One after the other, after theother.
Ryan (24:44):
And, yeah, my man, just so many, just deaths.
A lot of people passed awayduring that time and I could not
be at their funerals, peoplecalling me to help through the
grieving process, who expectedme to be there for them and I
could not.
You know, right, and I'm justlike, oh man, what am I doing?
What am I doing?
What am I doing?
Yeah, why am I here?
(25:07):
Because, like being from a bigcity and then going to
Appalachia, it's like if youtake a spider monkey and put it
in an alfalfa field.
What's it going to do?
That's how I felt.
Lily (25:26):
Like this is great grazing country for cows, but I am a
spider monkey.
I feel out of place here.
Ryan (25:30):
I would drive for three hours to get to DC just so there
could be lights and sounds andhomeless people yelling at me,
and that's where I feltcomfortable, right.
That's a pretty accuratedepiction of DC too, Gangsters
would come up and start yellingand I would start speaking back
in their language and they'relike oh, okay, you're cool.
Lily (25:51):
Yeah, he's not a tourist.
Ryan (25:54):
yeah the Philadelphia.
That happened to me a few timesand they're just like, hey,
they're just like tip of the cap.
I'm like, all right, cool,that's hilarious, but like me,
just like being there.
My professors were very clearlyworried about me, right, just
right, going through all thatstuff and trying to like be
involved in the church becauseI'm like I have to hold on to
(26:15):
something yes I don't want allof this to like pull me away,
because I've seen before where,if I'm having issues, I will
succumb to previous lifestylechoices and I don't want to do
that again, right, right.
I did not want to go toVirginia.
My mission president was tryingreally hard for me to get into
(26:35):
BYU, byu Idaho, byu Hawaii andhe was like writing all these
angry emails like how dare younot accept my missionary?
You know, whatever, but no, Iwent to Southern Virginia.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah.
Ryan (26:47):
And it wasn't until later that I saw the wisdom in that,
if I was that close to home Iwould have gone home, and if I
was that close to all of theprevious life that I used to
live, yes, I would have goneback into it, right, um, I think
it's one of the great argumentsof like spiritual guidance.
(27:08):
Um, because some people say,well, what if it's just
intuition?
Like, well, there's also timesthe Lord asks you to do
something you don't want to do,and it's for your protection,
it's for your good.
Lily (27:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Ryan (27:20):
But being there with so much sadness and just all the
loss and the death and just likelosing the house that we lived
in, just all these things goingon.
Every phone call I got was abad one.
Every phone call I got was abad one.
And there was a time when I gottext messages from a sister
(27:45):
that I used to serve with in thePhilippines and not even saying
hi or how are you, or you knowhow's life been since the
mission, anything like that.
It was just you need to marrydearly.
I'm like cool, how are youdoing?
You know?
Lily (27:55):
yeah, a lot of other important things going on over
here.
The last thing I need is thatI'm just like I remember you as
being a very like, shy, andquiet missionary and then you
come with this like, okay, youhave like this habit of people
coming to you and it's like theaudacity of like saying all
these random things just likestraight to your face, like I
(28:16):
think, because the lord talks toyou like go say this, just go
tell him, just go tell him it'llbe okay, promise the lord knows
that I'm enough of a jerk thatI wouldn't get it otherwise.
Ryan (28:25):
You know right, I would be so dismissive if it was subtle.
Um, and I'm grateful for thatrelationship with the Lord.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
He knows me well enough to do that.
Ryan (28:36):
Yeah, yeah yeah, but another sister who served in the
same area.
Flew from Orlando to SouthernVirginia where she had graduated
before her mission, to tell methat I need to marry dearly.
I'm like weird.
Lily (28:53):
Yes.
Ryan (29:00):
Like that's really really really weird, uh-huh um and so
my dad had called again with badnews and I just wanted to
lighten up the conversation.
I'm just like it's nothing butsadness and sadness and all the
things we're losing and all thepeople that are gone.
Lily (29:09):
It's so heavy.
Ryan (29:11):
I said, hey, you want to hear something funny.
I was like there are thesesister missionaries who are
telling me that I need to marryanother sister missionary.
Keep in mind, my dad's not amember Right, right, right.
I'm like isn't that weird?
Uh-huh, Like just trying tolighten up the conversation.
Lily (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ryan (29:30):
And there's a solid 30 seconds of silence you're like
hello dad he says would itsurprise you if I told you that
I already knew that?
Yeah, 100 he goes.
You can ask your sister, she'sthe only one who knows about
(29:52):
this.
And he says but while you wereon your mission, you were close
to coming home and I had thishorrible, overwhelming feeling
that I was going to lose you,that the plane on the way home
would crash or you'd getkidnapped by rebels in the
Philippines or somethinghorrible would happen and I
would never see my son again.
And he said I got on my knees toto pray, which is something my
(30:17):
dad does not do.
I got on my knees to pray and Isaw you come home and then I
saw you go away to school.
I saw sister missionaries go toyou and tell you to marry a
(30:38):
girl who all three of you hadserved with, and I saw that she
was a filipina with long, darkhair who was a dancer.
He says I know what she lookslike.
I've tried to find her onFacebook but I can't.
He says but I know that youwill fly to her to marry her and
(31:00):
that she's the one that Godwants for you.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm just like on the phone,like this is kind of a lot at
once.
Like hearing my dad speak withsuch certainty.
Yes, feeling testimony from myfather that I never had before
right like I'm in tears, I'mshaking up and I'm also like am
(31:21):
I getting married?
Like what?
Lily (31:24):
what's going on like I don't know.
This was supposed to be a joke.
I brought this up as a joke,dad.
Ryan (31:29):
Yeah, I'm like I know this girl as a missionary.
I know her key indicators and Iknow her testimony.
That's the extent of it.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah.
Ryan (31:36):
Yeah, but he was like whoever she is, this is who God
wants for you, so go get her.
Whoa, what the heck.
Lily (31:45):
Off to the Philippines.
I guess I'm going yeah.
Ryan (31:47):
And this was like right before finals week too.
So I'm like, okay, well, thatwas a confirmation, because I
definitely felt that, but I needmore, right?
So I spent one day just fastingand praying and partially
grieving for my grandfather whohad just passed.
Yeah, and that was a powerfulday of just silent, solemn
(32:08):
spirit being there and I feltdefinitely comforted yeah and
not quite coerced, but it waslike a nudge towards the right
direction, like, okay, this issomething, yeah, and then on our
reading day, where they cancelthe classes right before finals,
right, I went up to DC to go tothe temple and it was so funny
(32:31):
there because you know, I'mthere in the temple with all the
other patrons and wheneverything gets started, that's
kind of when I have anotherexperience where I see that
there's gold and that's beingtaken out of the ground and it's
just like dirty, but it needsto be cleaned up.
(32:51):
So it's like washed and thenburnt in the fire and as it gets
more and more pure, suddenlythat's when it's just like dirty
but it needs to be cleaned up.
So it's like washed and thenburnt in the fire and as it gets
more and more pure, suddenlythat's when it's useful and the
gold can then be turned intostuff.
Yeah, like it's worthlessbefore that right, and so it
gets fashioned into a ringuh-huh, and then similarly used
to work for a jeweler.
Yes, I can tell you the claritycarrot and cut of everything.
(33:17):
But like there's a ring andthen, similarly, there's a
diamond that has been formedunder this heat and pressure but
is then taken out, cut andpolished until it's ready and
then they're put together, yeah,and says you are the gold.
You have endured these trialsand all this pain faithfully and
(33:38):
, as such, you are of more usethan you would have been before.
Um, similarly dearly is thediamond.
She has similarly gone throughthe heat and pressure of these
trials and is now ready.
The two of you together areworth so much more than you
would have been apart right,that's beautiful, oh my gosh,
and I'm like wow what symbols,what a beautiful analogy yes,
(34:01):
yes and so the next hard partcame was me calling her.
Yeah, how do you how?
Lily (34:07):
do you bring that up?
Ryan (34:07):
I know I'm gonna marry you , but uh, I was like well that's
really cool for me, but it'snot real revelation unless she's
had it too.
Lily (34:14):
Exactly, exactly.
Ryan (34:16):
She was in the temple on the other side of the world, in
the Philippines.
Yeah 12 time zones away.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yep.
Ryan (34:21):
Getting with a guy on a date.
I'm expecting to understand ifshe and him are supposed to get
together and she has the clearrevelation of no, it's it's Ryan
, uh, and she's like him, of no,it's it's ryan and she's like
him.
We set up a skype call and I'mlike I have something to tell
you.
She's like, well, I havesomething to tell you too, but
(34:42):
you go first just like oh no yep, the pressure is on I've seen
all the facebook posts.
I know she's been with this guyright.
He's a good guy.
We served as missionariestogether I know, yeah, you know
um, but I tell her, and justlike, this is what happened.
Like you know, my dad had thispowerful vision.
He's told me about it.
I've prayed about it.
I had my own experience in thetemple.
(35:03):
I know this is true, but I have.
I have to know that you're onthe same boat yeah and she goes
well.
I've gone through my own seriesof impressions and yeah,
relations yeah um, I'm in thesame place.
So we're just like, wow, cool,we're getting married.
Should we go on a date?
Date?
That finals week was so hardbecause I'm like trying to take
(35:25):
these tests.
I'm just like, okay, ancient,confucian virtue ethics, like
I'm getting married.
But like I finished my last,final, pack up the car, drive
home, get on a flight, go to thePhilippines.
I was supposed to go visit mymission but I just took another
flight and flew down to Deerlyand we just spent our time
(35:45):
together and, yeah, we decidedwe're getting married before our
first date.
Oh, my gosh.
We were so nervous, Like what ifwe don't actually like each
other?
This is crazy.
Explaining this to friends wasinsane.
Lily (35:56):
Right, I think literally anybody would be like you're
crazy, Like what the heck do youthink that you're doing?
Ryan (36:02):
You know the fascinating thing.
Lily (36:04):
I'm ready.
Ryan (36:04):
My friends who are not religious, the ones who grew up
without a religious foundationor who had moved away from any
type of faith, were the ones whowere in tears, who were touched
, who felt something.
But there were others who werein the church who, after
explaining you know what wasgoing on and that I'm getting
married and this is you knowthis big thing were upset,
(36:29):
saying why you?
But when I look at like what,what is the foundation of my
faith?
I'm like, well, there's thingsthat I understand is that
there's power and revelation ifyou seek for it, yes, um and
you're living in a way that youcan receive it.
Yes, um, but also theearnestness with which the lord
wants to help.
Yeah, like there areinternational things that are
(36:49):
moving to be put in place tohelp you yes um, and so like,
the power of that love, thelife-changing ability of that,
the, the ways in which, in grandand in small ways, the lord can
direct anything if we'rewilling to give him a chance to
do so, um, yeah, I would say.
(37:11):
Me finding my soul and thenfinding a wife would be two, um,
two just powerful examples thatI always lean back on when I'm
wondering what I'm doing.
Yeah, um, the evidence is rightthere.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Right.
Ryan (37:27):
And so, yeah, those.
I think those are the two big,biggest examples for me.
Lily (37:33):
Well, I think they're amazing examples.
It is amazing to see that theLord is literally in everything
in refining the soul, chasingafter the sheep, finding, caring
for all of it.
And then I love how you say heliterally can move international
things for you, right?
And I think that sometimes weforget you know, when we're
(37:57):
sitting in our problems rightnow what the Lord can do for us,
which is why I think it's soimportant that we can reflect
and look back on those thingsthat he has, but then also to
have the faith that you knowwhen he literally says he can
move a mountain, he literallycan and you've literally seen
that in your life.
So I guess I would say myquestion to you would be because
(38:20):
you've had these two giganticspiritual experiences, how do
you deal when life's not sogigantic and spiritual?
Ryan (38:27):
Yeah, that's.
It's really interesting, andespecially lately it's really
interesting, and especiallylately.
Um, the past year and a halfhas just been so hard for us.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah.
Ryan (38:41):
And it's interesting having the perspective of
knowing that your afflictionswill be consecrated for your aid
.
Lily (38:48):
Right Going back to that Joel verse.
Ryan (38:49):
Yeah, Um, I think there's a.
There's a specific quote thatdearly is put up on the fridge
about like you, your afflictionswill be consecrated for your
aid yeah and it's alwaysinteresting, like what does it
mean consecrated?
Well, it's to be set aside andmade holy.
Yeah, and you know that'ssomething for us right um, so
(39:10):
like, okay, what?
What is it that we've learned?
What have we gone through you?
Know, I.
I went through, you know,tremendous nerve pain.
Uh, last year it cost me thejob that I was working at, wow
um, and then trying to find ajob.
Since then I'm having so manyjob offers that like fall
through at the last second,which is, you know, strange
weird yeah like once, as ananomaly, but having a pattern of
(39:32):
that happening, I'm like what?
What is the lord trying toguide us towards?
yeah, exactly it would be easyto get upset saying, okay, we're
like at our you know finalstraw, you know what are we
doing right but, at the sametime, knowing the lord has
guided us with so much direction, has presented so many things
for us.
(39:54):
The healing that I had from mynerve pain was because the Lord
asked me to do something and Idid and the pain went away and
the doctors didn't know, wow.
So I'm like if the Lord hasthat much control over
everything, I need to be willingto give him a chance when he
makes me a promise.
Right and so, despite physicalor financial or familial issues
(40:17):
that might come up, I'm gratefulknowing that both my wife and I
have a firm foundation andunderstanding that the Lord has
plans that are far beyond themetrics of the natural man, and
I have to be okay, understandingthe eternal value of our
momentary difficulties.
(40:39):
So trying to measure myself byyou know, how the Lord sees me
is a lot different than you know.
Lily (40:46):
Looking at my retirement portfolio, no, but really though
, yeah, yeah, that is it.
Ryan (40:53):
Yeah.
So in answer to that question,yeah, like having life altering
evidence that he is involved,wants to be involved and has
plans that I could have neverunderstood, that were put in
place way before I knew thatthey were happening.
Like why would I doubt that now?
Lily (41:11):
Right, Right.
His ability to do that again.
If that is what his will isyeah and it doesn't have to be.
Ryan (41:19):
you know international relations, it could just be
little things.
Lily (41:23):
I just want a job.
Okay, Can I just have a jobplease?
Ryan (41:29):
I mean, that's the thing like knowing and understanding
that the Lord's desires for youare not just different, but
greater, in an eternal sense,than what you want for yourself
oftentimes is hard to let go ofBecause I'm thinking like I'm,
(41:49):
of that probably averageintelligence, if not more.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
I think I know some stuff.
Ryan (41:54):
I see other people doing things and I try to do that.
Yeah, and it's not working out,despite my best efforts in that
direction.
Yeah, and it's like it doesn'tmatter how good you are at
something.
The Lord is better and knowsmore about it.
Right, and to be willing togive that up without fighting.
It is really hard, that pride.
(42:17):
Yeah, those are discussions thatdearly, and I have had a lot
recently.
It's just like we.
We have all these plans andthey don't come together for
wacky and illogical reasons.
Yeah, maybe the lord's tryingto prevent stuff too, so
interesting the opportunitiesthat are closed can sometimes,
like going to Virginia, beopportunities for protection or
learning.
Lily (42:38):
Right, but you just don't even know until you're past them
, and sometimes we might noteven find out later, like who
even knows?
Ryan (42:45):
Yeah.
It wasn't until very recentlythat it hit me, when I was
asking about it, like, oh yeah,I was taken to Virginia for my
safety and despite the horribletime that I had there, it could
have been worse.
Lily (42:58):
It could have been worse yeah.
Ryan (42:59):
And I wouldn't have been able to handle that if I was
home.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Right.
Ryan (43:04):
Seeing the daily misery that was going on around me,
knowing exactly how I would haveturned away from that to
comfort myself.
Right so Right, right so Right.
Yeah, we don't always find out,but just knowing that like the
things that you're beingprevented from going into, as
well as opportunities that arebeing saved until the proper
time are the Lord's plan andthey're better than your plans.
Yeah.
(43:25):
And so I'm excited to see whatcomes next.
Hey, me too.
Oh man, oh man it is reallyalleviating when it comes to
those things having a sense ofbeing called to the fire of
affliction, knowing that theafflictions are going to be
(43:48):
consecrated, and alsounderstanding that you know the
author and finisher of our faithis an author and a finisher.
There is completion.
That is going to come so right.
It's comforting, in the mostuncomfortable circumstances,
knowing that right, waiting tillthe end, waiting till it's
finished.
Lily (44:09):
It's that hard, anxious, not not knowing what the future
holds.
Right, waiting to get to thatend.
That, I think, is just so.
At least that's where I get thepanicking of what's happening
next.
What am I doing next?
What is your plan?
You can just tell me your plan,can't?
You just tell me, like I'll doit?
(44:29):
Just tell me.
Well, actually, he, probably,he'd probably, if you were to
tell me a big well, that's nice,I actually want to do this,
just so you know it's funny I Ithink often of my, my mission.
Ryan (44:40):
I had a wacky, crazy mission uh um, if I was walking
into the mtc and the lord, letme know all the things that I
was going to go through as amissionary, yeah, I would have
turned around and got on the busback to Salt Lake.
But in the sense of daily steps, you know, like lead, kindly
light.
Just let me know one thing Ineed to do today, right, and
(45:02):
then you look back and see thatyou've been balancing on this
like tight wire and you're goingthrough flaming hoops and
sharks and everything.
Yeah, like, oh, that's why Ididn't need to know everything,
I just had to trust in him thathe'd get me through the sharks
and the fire, right.
Lily (45:19):
And now I'm safe on the other side, right well, maybe
that's why we have a veil too,so we're not like wasn't heaven
so nice, so easy?
Ryan (45:31):
like I'm in a happy neighborhood, but that one's way
better Way better.
Oh man, yeah, I think aboutthat sometimes, Like if we knew
the whole plan.
We're like, oh, I'm opting out,no Right.
That sounds hard.
Lily (45:46):
Right.
Ryan (45:49):
Yeah, there's also that, and then the aspect of just
trusting him.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Yeah.
Ryan (45:53):
So there's a word in Tagalog that I love from a
linguistic perspective.
The word tiwala means trust,and there's a type of
conjugation in the Philippineswhere you take a root word and
you conjugate it this way tomean that it represents your
livelihood.
(46:13):
So like is that is fish.
If you are a munging ista, thatmeans you're a fisherman.
Okay, that you are so involvedin fish that you can reliably be
found.
It's a future tense verb thatyou can be reliably found in the
future to be doing that doing?
you know fish fishing, yeah,fish fishing.
Yeah, gamot is medicine.
(46:34):
Manga gamot is a doctor.
Lily (46:36):
Doctor right.
Ryan (46:37):
Your livelihood is based around this thing.
You can be reliably found doingit.
Lily (46:41):
Interesting.
Ryan (46:42):
So to take the word diwala and conjugate it in the same
way is to be a believer that youhave made trusting in God such
a part of your life and the wayyou live that you can, in the
future, be reliably found stilltrusting in him to the point
where it is your vocation.
Like.
(47:03):
That word to me is so powerful,just in the way it's presented.
And when you say I believe inChrist and that it is a future
tense calling, like you will seeme continuing to believe.
Right, it's powerful to be abeliever in such a way that it
can be called upon as yourprofession.
Right that's so cool Right?
Yeah, I think about that a lotwhen it comes to, like you know,
(47:24):
have you had the mighty changeof heart?
Do you have Christ?
Lily (47:26):
engraved upon your image.
That's what I was just thinkingof too.
Yeah, that's what I was justthinking.
Yeah, like literally taking hisname upon you and all of that,
that we covenant and everything,and writing his name.
You know what do they say inthe fleshy tabernacle of your
soul, or whatever they say?
Yeah, that's literally what.
That is Right.
It becomes so ingrained intoyou that you become that Right.
Ryan (47:51):
Yeah, yeah, we're just thinking like, as you're
standing before the judgment barand you know christ is there
advocating for you and you knowsaying like this is this person
and their profession was abeliever.
Like how powerful you know, yes, um, allowing that change to
happen, when you know we'rekicking against it sometimes,
(48:13):
but I guess that's whatedification is.
You know we're kicking againstit sometimes, but I guess that's
what edification is, you know,allowing that change to happen?
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Right.
Ryan (48:22):
Oh man, yeah, think of you letting me share that.
That's not something that youget to talk about very often.
Lily (48:27):
No, I think that's really powerful and, honestly, I don't
have any other questions.
I think you've done anincredible job sharing
everything, and so, if if youhave any, any other thoughts,
I'd love for you to share them,and we can keep talking as long
as you would like, or, if youare ready to wrap up, you can
just share.
I'd like you can share atestimony.
Ryan (48:46):
I think at this point, um, I would just like to say that
perfection is not what'srequired in order for those
changes to take place.
Um, I think if anyone's anexample of that, it's me,
considering you know where I wasand the change that happened
from who I used to be until now.
There's a friend of mine wroteme a letter as a missionary.
(49:08):
He says you're probably havinga hard time right now, but if
you're having a bad time, don'tforget the godless heathen you
used to be.
That was the entire letter andas insulting and funny as that
was, I'm like oh yeah yeah whatI'm doing now is so far
(49:28):
different and I'm invested in it.
This matters to me when I usedto be that godless heathen right
exactly um, but knowing thatit's just the little steps and
allowances I guess the, in asense, humility, um, allowing
your will and volition to beshared with with heavenly father
that can change you at afundamental level, and I can
(49:56):
testify to that power.
There are still angels thatminister unto the faithful.
There are still miracles thatcan take place, large and small,
evident or otherwise, and therecognition that these are
things that are happening allthe time, with or without our
input, is just a fantastic thing, and we can allow ourselves to
(50:16):
be more and more involved inthat.
Like I, can testify to thepower that forgiveness has and
redemption and the life-changingways in which the lord can
participate in in anyone's lifeif you're allowing to give him
the power to do so, um.
So I think that is my testimonyand I'll leave that in the name
of Jesus Christ, amen thank youso much, ryan, for coming
(50:38):
tonight.
Lily (50:39):
This has been amazing thank you for sharing, thank you
for having me thanks again fortuning in to More Than
Coincidence, remembering JesusChrist in your story.
Please follow us on socialmedia or share us with a friend.
If you have an experience you'dlike to share, feel free to
reach out tomorethancoincidencerememberjesus
.
Please follow us on socialmedia or share us with a friend.
(50:59):
If you have an experience you'dlike to share, feel free to
reach out tomorethancoincidencerememberhim
at gmailcom.
I can't wait to hear all of theamazing memories you all have
of our Savior.
See you next time.
Hello everyone and welcome to, more Than Coincidence,
remembering Jesus Christ in yourStory.
As the author and finisher ofour faith, our Savior writes
personal experiences into eachof our lives which can later
strengthen, empower and bring uspeace upon reflection.
This podcast is dedicated tosharing these anchoring memories
(00:26):
from everyone's unique storiesin order to collectively
remember and testify of thereality of Jesus Christ and his
presence in our lives.
I'm your host, lily, and I'mvery excited to share these
experiences together.
Good evening, everybody.
Today we have Ryan with us.
How are you doing, ryan?
Ryan (00:44):
I'm great.
Thank you for having me.
Lily (00:46):
Can you introduce yourself a little bit for everyone?
Ryan (00:49):
Yeah, my name is Ryan Carrasco.
I am 34.
I have a wonderful wife and twoboys.
I graduated with a degree inphilosophy.
Most of my interests are inphilosophy, religion and history
and, yeah, I'm grateful to behere.
Lily (01:05):
Sweet.
Well, we've had a really gooddiscussion right before we
started recording, so I'vethoroughly enjoyed having you
over tonight.
So, ryan, what memories do youhave that you reflect on, that
prick your heart in remembranceof your Savior Jesus Christ, and
anchor you to him.
Ryan (01:21):
Man.
So I think for the one thatstands out to me the most, I
have to kind of go back a littlebit, um, because there's a
symbolism and stories that kindof build on each other, and I
think it's important to havethat context or at least it was
for me, yeah, as a foundation ofwhat my faith ended up being.
Yeah, um, so throughout highschool and a lot of college I'd
(01:45):
spent a lot of time pretendingto be religious to try to avoid
conflict and confrontation,where, when I was outside of
certain situations andrelationships, I was very much
expressing how anti-religious Iwas.
Yeah, so I was really justliving a false life.
It was rough and just entirerelationships, girlfriends that
(02:10):
thought I was a very religiousperson when I knew I was
absolutely not, and it was somanipulative, just not great.
Lily (02:16):
Yeah.
Ryan (02:17):
I spent a lot of time doing that.
Lily (02:18):
There are a lot of things in our teenage years.
I think everybody looking backwould be like it wasn't a very
good thing.
I'm glad that we don't have tostand trial for the things we
did as 15 year olds.
We would be condemned forever,oh man.
Yeah.
Ryan (02:35):
So just going through that , just kind of faking my way
through faith and religion andthings like that.
Yeah.
I grew up in a family in whichmy mother was a convert to the
church and my dad had beenbaptized, but his records were
lost immediately and no one wasever able to find or relocate or
(02:57):
redo them, as many people havetried to do.
Yeah, which is probably for thebest, uh-huh.
He went on to be very muchatheist, agnostic, alcoholic,
okay.
That was my dad, yeah, and mymom did not have a strong
culture of the church and lackeda lot of understanding there.
So like growing up it was justa little bit of pieces of church
(03:19):
here and there and that waskind of my understanding of most
religious things until Istarted studying things on my
own.
So getting to, let's say,college, by this point I guess
the effects of living this justmanipulative lie in myself kind
(03:39):
of started catching up with me,right catching up with me right,
because I could feel the lackof emotion, the lack of
connection, the lack ofunderstanding right I was going
to school and it was fine,didn't really care yeah I had a
girlfriend.
Lily (03:52):
It was fine, didn't really care right, so you didn't have
a lot of purpose or like meaningin your life.
Ryan (03:57):
No, no, no, no um, and that's kind of where the
questions started for me.
Yeah, the first question waswhat is love?
Lily (04:06):
and I'm looking at like an anthropological, you know, like
, okay, we have a multitude ofsenses and you know, it's not
just the five senses we talkabout we have, as many as you
know, 18, that some will arguefor physiological, biological,
all of these different ways,yeah, like how to describe love,
yeah yeah, and I'm like, well,okay, that's fine, that's what
love is, but like, what about?
Ryan (04:24):
like the type of love that can compel someone to do
something right, um great, oragainst their own self-interest,
or yeah, things like that.
Like that's not just umpheromones or a electromagnetic
pulse that they're picking up on, that's something bigger.
Yeah, um, and I'm like, there,there's, you know, in my mind
there was some type of eminentcosmological love out there.
Lily (04:48):
Because it seems like it was.
Is that something you felt?
Ryan (04:51):
It was something that I it's hard to say felt,
considering how numb that I was,but there was a ping and a
curiosity and something thatjust made sense to me while I
was thinking about it.
Yeah, that just made sense to mewhile I was thinking about it.
Yeah, and I was studyingphilosophy at the time and
there's a book called Works ofLove by Søren Kierkegaard.
I wondered becoming one of myfavorite philosophers.
(05:14):
But reading that, questioningwhat love is and what meaning
life would have with or withoutthat, that's kind of what got me
on the path.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah.
Ryan (05:26):
So I think it's important that I tell this um, there's a
time where my mom was reallyupset with me for the life that
she saw me living and set up ameeting with our bishop at the
time to do a.
Um, was it a tithing?
Lily (05:41):
a tithing.
Settlement settlement yes, umso, settlement Settlement, yes,
uh-huh uh-huh.
Ryan (05:45):
So I walk in.
I'd never seen this bishopbefore.
Yeah, I walk in.
He prints out a paper, he goes.
It looks like you have neverpaid tithing.
I'm like, yeah, that's accurate, he goes.
Okay, he goes.
Is there anything I can do foryou?
And in my mind I just kind ofwanted to get him to stop
talking to me because I know hesent out, you know, missionaries
and home teachers and whoeverit is to try to talk to me and I
(06:08):
was trying to avoid them at anypoint that I could, and I
didn't want my mom to get upset.
So I went to this meeting and sohe says is there anything I can
do for him?
Like well, I think apatriarchal blessing would be
good.
You know, I think that would befascinating.
And he goes.
No, he's like.
He's looking at me like I'venever seen you in my life.
You're walking in here like yeah, I've talked to your mom, I
(06:30):
know what you're doing, yeah,but he's looking at me and then
he just kind of like settlesdown and just gives this deep
sigh.
And he looks at me and says Ifeel that you are in a lake
swimming, treading water, and atany shore that you swim to
there's an excellent opportunitywhere you could excel, but you
(06:52):
refuse to swim.
I'm just looking at it like theaudacity.
Lily (06:57):
Yeah, how dare you.
Ryan (07:00):
And he goes.
Can I give you a challenge?
I'm just like again looking athim, like well, that's okay,
fascinating you know well that'sokay.
Fascinating.
You know who are you, yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
He says will you read these verses from the Book?
Ryan (07:15):
of Mormon and pray about them diligently to see if it is
true.
And I said fine.
So he gives me these verses toread Moroni, chapter 10, 3
through 5, and so that night Iget home um after this, you know
, very intense and strangemeeting with this bishop that I
didn't know right um, I gooutside when my whole family's
(07:35):
asleep, I get the book of mormonand I'm reading it by moonlight
and I'm reading and prayingangrily because I did not want
to read and pray but I alsodidn't want to like go back on
the word that I was going to doit.
Lily (07:48):
Right, You're like I will paddle one direction.
Ryan (07:51):
I'm going to show you which way I'm going to go, I'm
going to swim so fast and solike I was really angry about it
and like arrogant, and I'm likeI'm going to read this and I'm
going to pray.
And if the resurrected prophetElijah does not show himself to
me, then I will know that thisis false.
Yeah, like that was thearrogance that I approached it
with.
Yeah, and because of thearrogance I approached it with,
(08:14):
I got nothing.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Right.
Ryan (08:15):
I was demanding for, like the moon to explode and angels
to pour out of it, to prove tome specifically.
Lily (08:25):
Right.
Ryan (08:25):
Me, who was not living in any type of good life, right um
to prove that this thing washappening, that I also did not
want to be true yeah so likewhere was the faith?
Speaker 3 (08:32):
where was?
Ryan (08:33):
the due diligence.
There there was nothing rightand months go by from this point
, but I'm still having thatfeeling of what is love and I'm
feeling that my relationship isfailing.
Lily (08:44):
I'm not happy, I'm right just like living this weird life
, but I still have that like youdidn't love yourself, like that
was probably part of it too.
Ryan (08:53):
100 yeah my feelings towards myself were just misery
and discontent yeah, and becauseof this internal conflict, yeah
and I recognized that I wasn'tfeeling emotions and that
bothered me too.
Like this isn't a good sign,this is a symptom of something
much worse.
Lily (09:08):
Yeah, I feel broken.
Ryan (09:10):
Yeah, and so I started meeting with religious leaders
and professors.
I went to my philosophyprofessor, who was known for
taking a stance of defense ofreligion from philosophical
attacks, which I thought wasinteresting.
I talked to him about it.
Lily (09:31):
Right.
Ryan (09:32):
And a few times I was just in his office or in his
colleagues' offices and justsaying it sounds like your soul
is crying out for you.
Maybe you should reach intothat.
Like weird Okay.
Speaker 3 (09:44):
Yeah.
Ryan (09:47):
If that's a thing, then I I'm gonna look into it.
Um, I met with?
Um a number of evangelicalpreachers.
Um, I I went to a few events.
Um, for ramadan with somemuslim friends cool.
I went to a synagogue andstudied with some rabbis.
Um, I learned meditation from anumber of Buddhist monks.
I went everywhere that I couldto try to just find something,
(10:12):
ended up breaking up with a girlthat I was at or that I was
dating at the time, and it justfelt like, okay, you're taking
more steps, you're getting tosomething.
And during this whole time Iwas getting text messages from
our young men's leader in theward saying, hey, we're having
(10:34):
priesthood prep meeting.
You should come to these,because I had not received the
priesthood Right and I'm justlike I'm way older.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah.
Ryan (10:42):
Like who gave you my phone number?
Speaker 4 (10:44):
You know just, I'm way older.
Yeah, Like who gave you myphone number?
You know just, I would neverrespond.
Ryan (10:46):
Yeah, I also made sure that I was working on Sundays,
which they usually have theirmeetings on Sundays.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Yeah.
Ryan (10:52):
And there was one day in particular, the jeweler that I
was working for had a bigdiamond event and we had to call
all of our high end customersto come buy diamonds, because
you could get finance for twoyears without interest or
something.
Yeah, customers to come buydiamonds because you could get
financed for two years withoutinterest or something.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, it's like a 14 hour day of me just trying to
sell stupid expensive diamondsto the most obnoxious customers.
Lily (11:13):
Let's be real, yeah it was also.
Ryan (11:16):
I'm a basketball fan.
I grew up in la.
I saw the lakers the first timewhen I was like two years old,
yeah, and it was the lakersplaying the celtics in the so
you definitely had somewhereelse you wanted to yeah, so I
get home after this long andobnoxious day at work and I was
getting text messages repeatedlyall day, which you've never
done before to go to thispriesthood prep meeting.
(11:37):
Yeah, I get home, I lay on thecouch, I'm watching the nba
finals and then I decide I'mjust going to go to his house
Now.
I was so tired and so annoyedand I wanted to watch the team
you know, my team play in thefinals.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah.
Ryan (11:52):
And I went to this stranger's house.
Yeah, Now I can't explain whatcompelled me to do this.
Lily (11:57):
I was going to say what that rationale was.
Ryan (12:00):
Because I was still in, like my jeweler clothes, like I
look like just an off-brandaccountant yeah.
Oh man, but I show up very late.
There's a bunch of like 15, 16year old kids there at this
guy's house.
Lily (12:16):
You're like.
Ryan (12:17):
I don't fit in here.
Well, definitely, and they wereshocked that I was there.
Yeah, one guy opened the doorand he was like who are you?
Yeah, and it was so funnybecause they were already eating
their brownies and soda andwhatever you're like.
I'm just here for the desserts,man basically, but they bring
(12:37):
me in and they sit me down inthe living room and there's like
all the kids that are sittingthere eating their cookies and
then there's the elders quorumpresident and one of the young
men, advisors I think, and thenthey start grilling me and he
says why did you come here?
And I'm like, I'm really notsure.
He said do you have a testimonyof Jesus Christ?
I'm like I really I don't knowLike.
(12:59):
Do you believe that the Book ofMormon is the word of God?
I don't know Like.
Do you believe that the um, thegospel, has been restored
through the prophet joseph smith?
I don't know.
Do you believe that thomas smonzen is a prophet of god?
I don't know.
But can you help me?
yeah, because I came here forsomething right and so they're
sitting there, you know, justdrilling me with their cookies
(13:21):
and milk.
Well, I'm literally seated bymyself in the middle of a room
surrounded by couches, whereeveryone else is seated, and
yeah one brother pulls out hisbook of Mormon.
(13:44):
He says I'm going to readsomething to you and you better
listen, because I'm only goingto say it once and it's the most
important thing you will everhear.
And once again I'm like theaudacity of this man, but he had
my interest.
Lily (14:02):
Yeah.
Ryan (14:02):
I was in his home.
Lily (14:03):
Right.
Ryan (14:05):
So I'm just looking at him waiting, feeling that I'd done
something right for the firsttime in a long time.
Speaker 3 (14:14):
Yeah.
Ryan (14:15):
He opens up and he starts reading, and I just black out.
Lily (14:20):
Like literally.
Ryan (14:21):
Not literally, it was just an absence of sensation
Interesting.
I couldn't.
An absence of sensationInteresting.
I couldn't see, hear anything.
It was just kind of like acolorless void in which I could
hear not really hear, but feeltwo things.
One is you have your direction,now swim.
And the other one was this isright, keep swimming.
(14:45):
Okay, oh, wow okay.
So when I kind of come to, yeah,tears pouring out of my face
and I'm laughing really hardyeah and I look over at the
brother who was speaking hisscriptures are put away by that
point and he says and that's howI know this is true.
(15:06):
And I'm just like I have noidea what you just said.
Yeah, one of the advisors looksat me and he sees that I'm kind
of in a distressed state.
He goes what just happened toyou?
And I said I'm not sure, but Ithink you all just witnessed a
conversion.
And so they're just looking atme Just to remember all the 15
(15:28):
year olds with their cookies.
Lily (15:31):
I'm so glad I came to this tonight.
This is so awesome.
Ryan (15:34):
We should do this more often.
So I'm just like in shock, likewhat just happened, and I just
had that vision in my mind ofwhat the bishop had told me
months prior.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
Yes.
Ryan (15:45):
Like you're swimming.
Right, you've picked a shore.
Yes, you're on the way.
So there I was, like I wenthome that night, talked to my
mom earnestly and openly for thefirst time in years, reconciled
some things with her, and then,because everyone in the family
ward knew too much about me, Iwent to a singles ward, probably
(16:08):
for the best.
Lily (16:09):
They didn't know me.
Ryan (16:12):
And I just walked up to the bishop and I go like, hey,
um, yeah, I kind of believe inthis.
I think I'm supposed to serve amission, right?
He's like, well, let's, let'sdo some other stuff first.
Yeah, he's like let's startwith transferring your records
over and then we can talk andsee you know what things need to
get done yeah, um, but yeah,there was.
There was a lot of other thingsthat went into it, um, groups of
(16:33):
friends who were like secretlyplotting on trying to get me to
church, um, who would visit myhome and leave notes and things
randomly, or just there therewere a lot of forces at work,
but, um, the strangemachinations and orchestrations
of what the Lord was able to doto get me away from that
nothingness and into a life ofpurpose, and then to find
(16:58):
something that I thought I hadnever deserved, which was
forgiveness.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Right.
Ryan (17:05):
I carried that anger toward myself for so long and
then to finally feel that youcan be a missionary.
It doesn't matter if you'reolder than all the other ones.
Like right.
It doesn't matter that you werean enemy of the church, it
wasn't.
Doesn't matter that you wereagainst the notion of god for so
long.
Like you can live now as anexample of the faith and
(17:26):
testimony you've been givenright.
And it's not about forgivenessbeing earned, it's it being
graciously granted to you sowhat?
Do you do with that?
and so living as a missionary.
I just wanted to live up tothat promise yeah, did you feel
like you found love?
Lily (17:44):
like you found because I feel like that's kind of seemed
what started your journey waswhat is love?
And Christ is the epitome oflove, right?
So do you feel like you wereable to find that, or you still
hadn't quite answered thatquestion yet?
Ryan (17:57):
There was a lingering thought of me still not
deserving forgiveness becausethat was an overwhelming feeling
, going through multipleprocesses of repentance Right To
the point where I could serve amission Right.
But every time that would come,and every time I felt that that
love and that gratitude I stillfelt undeserving yeah but it
(18:22):
was undoubtable to me, knowinghow it had helped heal my
relationship, a very strangerelationship, with my mother
yeah and also learning toappreciate myself, see myself
through terms of like, love andunderstanding right, like I'm
not a despicable human being,yes, like I have value and it's
(18:42):
okay to have value.
I I think often.
There's a verse in Joel thattalks about the years that are
lost to the harvest being, orthe year the harvest lost to the
locust being restored to you.
So even all those years thathad been lost to, whether plague
(19:05):
or famine, drought or just umbad people not farming Well,
whatever it is whatever.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
it is drought, or just bad people not farming,
well, yeah, whatever it is, theatonement means that not all of
that is permanently lost.
Ryan (19:24):
Anything can be restored, and so, for me, one of the best
examples of that is like when Iwas a missionary.
I didn't have seminary, Ididn't have institute.
I barely knew what the plan ofsalvation was.
Lily (19:34):
Yeah, but it was.
You're literally aninvestigator on your mission too
.
Ryan (19:37):
Yeah, and it was restored.
Yeah.
Like I found myselfunderstanding scriptures in ways
that I didn't know that I couldand I'm like oh, wow, what an
example of the atonement thateverything that I had
intentionally neglected for adecade is being restored, now
that I'm receptive.
Lily (19:56):
Right.
Ryan (20:00):
That was, I think, a powerful and beautiful
foundation for me to realizewhat it was precisely that I was
converted to.
Lily (20:08):
Right, exactly that I was converted to Right.
Ryan (20:12):
Exactly, oh man, yeah, there's a lot to it, but really
just thinking it was a desirefor love that set me on the
journey.
And then, a year later, alittle more than a year later,
but it was a long, painful roadit felt like you know a
millennia, but it was only ayear.
But like I had to change myself,my personality, the people I
(20:34):
was spending time with all thesethings to just try to get
myself in a position to where Ifelt that I could live my life
in such a way to receive and beworthy of that love Right
Understanding, just like thedaily doses of grace that could
be there.
Like that was so important tome that I was just never there.
(20:54):
Before the thought was yeahthere right so yeah, that's, I
think, a big part of myconversion story.
Oh man, when I think of the twomost powerful instances of just
divine orchestration in my lifewould be one, me coming to
(21:16):
church and serving a mission andthen two getting married, I
think often of now I can'tremember the scripture, and how
I can't remember the scripture.
It's in Isaiah and in Nephi,talking about how we are called
(21:37):
in the furnace of affliction.
Lily (21:38):
Yes.
Ryan (21:40):
Right and what that means.
Like to be called, to be chosen, to be set apart for the
furnace.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Furnace yeah.
Ryan (21:47):
Yeah, but what a gift.
That can be Right, because inwhat other situations are we
willingly allowing ourselves tobe molded and shaped into a
reflection of the Lord, todevelop those characteristics in
an extremely efficient butpainful way?
Lily (22:07):
Right.
And honestly, the mostefficient way.
Like, let's just be real.
Yeah, like you can't go aroundit.
You can't go over it, you can'tlike you.
It's literally something youhave to go straight through in
order to to come out.
The other side what you need tobe it's really powerful to me.
Ryan (22:24):
I think in in a couple ways.
I think recently I've beenworking with a few people who've
been, you know, struggling witha number of things, and it's
weird to me that they've come tome for help.
I'm far from a professional inanything.
Lily (22:39):
You're easy to talk to.
Ryan (22:42):
And I have a little bit of a background in mental health.
But the reason I was hiredthere was because of my faith.
They wanted me to be able tohelp out the people who are
suffering from variousaddictions within the church
community.
Right, so I'm grateful for thatbackground.
But talking about what it meansto have a community of healing
(23:03):
and people who've experiencedthe atonement, the same way that
Christ talks about how hecondescended below all things so
that we can overcome all thingsRight, and we do that in can
overcome all things Right.
And we do that in our own littleways.
Yes, and so, having gonethrough the furnace of
affliction, we're climbing up amountain, and when we see others
struggling on that samemountain, we can help them up
(23:24):
the path.
You know, you can't helpsomeone climb a mountain that
you're not on or haven't climbedyourself.
You know.
Exactly help someone climb amountain that you're not on or
haven't climbed yourself.
You know exactly, and so that'sone instance in which it's
interesting having gone throughtrials and then seeing how
powerful that can be on theother side.
But in another sense I think ofyou know, when I got back from
my mission, I go to virginia, um, and I'm studying at southern
(23:49):
virginia for a while, and that'sjust when things really start
falling apart.
We're going through a number ofdeaths in the family, divorce,
disease, homelessness, just awhole bunch of crazy stuff
happens.
And I'm on the other side ofthe country, my family's in the
LA area and I'm in SouthernVirginia.
Lily (24:08):
Shout out to Buena Vista yeah.
It's a beautiful place.
Ryan (24:15):
It, yeah, and I could not be happy there um right
fantastic just mind.
Lily (24:20):
In your heart was just other places yeah, I, I could
not concentrate.
Ryan (24:24):
Yeah, it was so hard for me to be there and every time I
got a phone call it was just badnews.
Yeah, um you, you know just mymom calling.
Hey, just letting you know.
You know your dad and I areseparating.
Or hey, just letting you know,like your grandfather has
Alzheimer's.
Hey, just letting you know yourfavorite uncle has ALS.
Now, you know, just like.
Lily (24:41):
Wow.
One after the other, after theother.
Ryan (24:44):
And, yeah, my man, just so many, just deaths.
A lot of people passed awayduring that time and I could not
be at their funerals, peoplecalling me to help through the
grieving process, who expectedme to be there for them and I
could not.
You know, right, and I'm justlike, oh man, what am I doing?
What am I doing?
What am I doing?
Yeah, why am I here?
(25:07):
Because, like being from a bigcity and then going to
Appalachia, it's like if youtake a spider monkey and put it
in an alfalfa field.
What's it going to do?
That's how I felt.
Lily (25:26):
Like this is great grazing country for cows, but I am a
spider monkey.
I feel out of place here.
Ryan (25:30):
I would drive for three hours to get to DC just so there
could be lights and sounds andhomeless people yelling at me,
and that's where I feltcomfortable, right.
That's a pretty accuratedepiction of DC too, Gangsters
would come up and start yellingand I would start speaking back
in their language and they'relike oh, okay, you're cool.
Lily (25:51):
Yeah, he's not a tourist.
Ryan (25:54):
yeah the Philadelphia.
That happened to me a few timesand they're just like, hey,
they're just like tip of the cap.
I'm like, all right, cool,that's hilarious, but like me,
just like being there.
My professors were very clearlyworried about me, right, just
right, going through all thatstuff and trying to like be
involved in the church becauseI'm like I have to hold on to
(26:15):
something yes I don't want allof this to like pull me away,
because I've seen before where,if I'm having issues, I will
succumb to previous lifestylechoices and I don't want to do
that again, right, right.
I did not want to go toVirginia.
My mission president was tryingreally hard for me to get into
(26:35):
BYU, byu Idaho, byu Hawaii andhe was like writing all these
angry emails like how dare younot accept my missionary?
You know, whatever, but no, Iwent to Southern Virginia.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
Yeah.
Ryan (26:47):
And it wasn't until later that I saw the wisdom in that,
if I was that close to home Iwould have gone home, and if I
was that close to all of theprevious life that I used to
live, yes, I would have goneback into it, right, um, I think
it's one of the great argumentsof like spiritual guidance.
(27:08):
Um, because some people say,well, what if it's just
intuition?
Like, well, there's also timesthe Lord asks you to do
something you don't want to do,and it's for your protection,
it's for your good.
Lily (27:18):
Yeah, exactly.
Ryan (27:20):
But being there with so much sadness and just all the
loss and the death and just likelosing the house that we lived
in, just all these things goingon.
Every phone call I got was abad one.
Every phone call I got was abad one.
And there was a time when I gottext messages from a sister
(27:45):
that I used to serve with in thePhilippines and not even saying
hi or how are you, or you knowhow's life been since the
mission, anything like that.
It was just you need to marrydearly.
I'm like cool, how are youdoing?
You know?
Lily (27:55):
yeah, a lot of other important things going on over
here.
The last thing I need is thatI'm just like I remember you as
being a very like, shy, andquiet missionary and then you
come with this like, okay, youhave like this habit of people
coming to you and it's like theaudacity of like saying all
these random things just likestraight to your face, like I
(28:16):
think, because the lord talks toyou like go say this, just go
tell him, just go tell him it'llbe okay, promise the lord knows
that I'm enough of a jerk thatI wouldn't get it otherwise.
Ryan (28:25):
You know right, I would be so dismissive if it was subtle.
Um, and I'm grateful for thatrelationship with the Lord.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
He knows me well enough to do that.
Ryan (28:36):
Yeah, yeah yeah, but another sister who served in the
same area.
Flew from Orlando to SouthernVirginia where she had graduated
before her mission, to tell methat I need to marry dearly.
I'm like weird.
Lily (28:53):
Yes.
Ryan (29:00):
Like that's really really really weird, uh-huh um and so
my dad had called again with badnews and I just wanted to
lighten up the conversation.
I'm just like it's nothing butsadness and sadness and all the
things we're losing and all thepeople that are gone.
Lily (29:09):
It's so heavy.
Ryan (29:11):
I said, hey, you want to hear something funny.
I was like there are thesesister missionaries who are
telling me that I need to marryanother sister missionary.
Keep in mind, my dad's not amember Right, right, right.
I'm like isn't that weird?
Uh-huh, Like just trying tolighten up the conversation.
Lily (29:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Ryan (29:30):
And there's a solid 30 seconds of silence you're like
hello dad he says would itsurprise you if I told you that
I already knew that?
Yeah, 100 he goes.
You can ask your sister, she'sthe only one who knows about
(29:52):
this.
And he says but while you wereon your mission, you were close
to coming home and I had thishorrible, overwhelming feeling
that I was going to lose you,that the plane on the way home
would crash or you'd getkidnapped by rebels in the
Philippines or somethinghorrible would happen and I
would never see my son again.
And he said I got on my knees toto pray, which is something my
(30:17):
dad does not do.
I got on my knees to pray and Isaw you come home and then I
saw you go away to school.
I saw sister missionaries go toyou and tell you to marry a
(30:38):
girl who all three of you hadserved with, and I saw that she
was a filipina with long, darkhair who was a dancer.
He says I know what she lookslike.
I've tried to find her onFacebook but I can't.
He says but I know that youwill fly to her to marry her and
(31:00):
that she's the one that Godwants for you.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm just like on the phone,like this is kind of a lot at
once.
Like hearing my dad speak withsuch certainty.
Yes, feeling testimony from myfather that I never had before
right like I'm in tears, I'mshaking up and I'm also like am
(31:21):
I getting married?
Like what?
Lily (31:24):
what's going on like I don't know.
This was supposed to be a joke.
I brought this up as a joke,dad.
Ryan (31:29):
Yeah, I'm like I know this girl as a missionary.
I know her key indicators and Iknow her testimony.
That's the extent of it.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah.
Ryan (31:36):
Yeah, but he was like whoever she is, this is who God
wants for you, so go get her.
Whoa, what the heck.
Lily (31:45):
Off to the Philippines.
I guess I'm going yeah.
Ryan (31:47):
And this was like right before finals week too.
So I'm like, okay, well, thatwas a confirmation, because I
definitely felt that, but I needmore, right?
So I spent one day just fastingand praying and partially
grieving for my grandfather whohad just passed.
Yeah, and that was a powerfulday of just silent, solemn
(32:08):
spirit being there and I feltdefinitely comforted yeah and
not quite coerced, but it waslike a nudge towards the right
direction, like, okay, this issomething, yeah, and then on our
reading day, where they cancelthe classes right before finals,
right, I went up to DC to go tothe temple and it was so funny
(32:31):
there because you know, I'mthere in the temple with all the
other patrons and wheneverything gets started, that's
kind of when I have anotherexperience where I see that
there's gold and that's beingtaken out of the ground and it's
just like dirty, but it needsto be cleaned up.
(32:51):
So it's like washed and thenburnt in the fire and as it gets
more and more pure, suddenlythat's when it's just like dirty
but it needs to be cleaned up.
So it's like washed and thenburnt in the fire and as it gets
more and more pure, suddenlythat's when it's useful and the
gold can then be turned intostuff.
Yeah, like it's worthlessbefore that right, and so it
gets fashioned into a ringuh-huh, and then similarly used
to work for a jeweler.
Yes, I can tell you the claritycarrot and cut of everything.
(33:17):
But like there's a ring andthen, similarly, there's a
diamond that has been formedunder this heat and pressure but
is then taken out, cut andpolished until it's ready and
then they're put together, yeah,and says you are the gold.
You have endured these trialsand all this pain faithfully and
(33:38):
, as such, you are of more usethan you would have been before.
Um, similarly dearly is thediamond.
She has similarly gone throughthe heat and pressure of these
trials and is now ready.
The two of you together areworth so much more than you
would have been apart right,that's beautiful, oh my gosh,
and I'm like wow what symbols,what a beautiful analogy yes,
(34:01):
yes and so the next hard partcame was me calling her.
Yeah, how do you how?
Lily (34:07):
do you bring that up?
Ryan (34:07):
I know I'm gonna marry you , but uh, I was like well that's
really cool for me, but it'snot real revelation unless she's
had it too.
Lily (34:14):
Exactly, exactly.
Ryan (34:16):
She was in the temple on the other side of the world, in
the Philippines.
Yeah 12 time zones away.
Speaker 3 (34:21):
Yep.
Ryan (34:21):
Getting with a guy on a date.
I'm expecting to understand ifshe and him are supposed to get
together and she has the clearrevelation of no, it's it's Ryan
, uh, and she's like him, of no,it's it's ryan and she's like
him.
We set up a skype call and I'mlike I have something to tell
you.
She's like, well, I havesomething to tell you too, but
(34:42):
you go first just like oh no yep, the pressure is on I've seen
all the facebook posts.
I know she's been with this guyright.
He's a good guy.
We served as missionariestogether I know, yeah, you know
um, but I tell her, and justlike, this is what happened.
Like you know, my dad had thispowerful vision.
He's told me about it.
I've prayed about it.
I had my own experience in thetemple.
(35:03):
I know this is true, but I have.
I have to know that you're onthe same boat yeah and she goes
well.
I've gone through my own seriesof impressions and yeah,
relations yeah um, I'm in thesame place.
So we're just like, wow, cool,we're getting married.
Should we go on a date?
Date?
That finals week was so hardbecause I'm like trying to take
(35:25):
these tests.
I'm just like, okay, ancient,confucian virtue ethics, like
I'm getting married.
But like I finished my last,final, pack up the car, drive
home, get on a flight, go to thePhilippines.
I was supposed to go visit mymission but I just took another
flight and flew down to Deerlyand we just spent our time
(35:45):
together and, yeah, we decidedwe're getting married before our
first date.
Oh, my gosh.
We were so nervous, Like what ifwe don't actually like each
other?
This is crazy.
Explaining this to friends wasinsane.
Lily (35:56):
Right, I think literally anybody would be like you're
crazy, Like what the heck do youthink that you're doing?
Ryan (36:02):
You know the fascinating thing.
Lily (36:04):
I'm ready.
Ryan (36:04):
My friends who are not religious, the ones who grew up
without a religious foundationor who had moved away from any
type of faith, were the ones whowere in tears, who were touched
, who felt something.
But there were others who werein the church who, after
explaining you know what wasgoing on and that I'm getting
married and this is you knowthis big thing were upset,
(36:29):
saying why you?
But when I look at like what,what is the foundation of my
faith?
I'm like, well, there's thingsthat I understand is that
there's power and revelation ifyou seek for it, yes, um and
you're living in a way that youcan receive it.
Yes, um, but also theearnestness with which the lord
wants to help.
Yeah, like there areinternational things that are
(36:49):
moving to be put in place tohelp you yes um, and so like,
the power of that love, thelife-changing ability of that,
the, the ways in which, in grandand in small ways, the lord can
direct anything if we'rewilling to give him a chance to
do so, um, yeah, I would say.
(37:11):
Me finding my soul and thenfinding a wife would be two, um,
two just powerful examples thatI always lean back on when I'm
wondering what I'm doing.
Yeah, um, the evidence is rightthere.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
Right.
Ryan (37:27):
And so, yeah, those.
I think those are the two big,biggest examples for me.
Lily (37:33):
Well, I think they're amazing examples.
It is amazing to see that theLord is literally in everything
in refining the soul, chasingafter the sheep, finding, caring
for all of it.
And then I love how you say heliterally can move international
things for you, right?
And I think that sometimes weforget you know, when we're
(37:57):
sitting in our problems rightnow what the Lord can do for us,
which is why I think it's soimportant that we can reflect
and look back on those thingsthat he has, but then also to
have the faith that you knowwhen he literally says he can
move a mountain, he literallycan and you've literally seen
that in your life.
So I guess I would say myquestion to you would be because
(38:20):
you've had these two giganticspiritual experiences, how do
you deal when life's not sogigantic and spiritual?
Ryan (38:27):
Yeah, that's.
It's really interesting, andespecially lately it's really
interesting, and especiallylately.
Um, the past year and a halfhas just been so hard for us.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Yeah.
Ryan (38:41):
And it's interesting having the perspective of
knowing that your afflictionswill be consecrated for your aid
.
Lily (38:48):
Right Going back to that Joel verse.
Ryan (38:49):
Yeah, Um, I think there's a.
There's a specific quote thatdearly is put up on the fridge
about like you, your afflictionswill be consecrated for your
aid yeah and it's alwaysinteresting, like what does it
mean consecrated?
Well, it's to be set aside andmade holy.
Yeah, and you know that'ssomething for us right um, so
(39:10):
like, okay, what?
What is it that we've learned?
What have we gone through you?
Know, I.
I went through, you know,tremendous nerve pain.
Uh, last year it cost me thejob that I was working at, wow
um, and then trying to find ajob.
Since then I'm having so manyjob offers that like fall
through at the last second,which is, you know, strange
weird yeah like once, as ananomaly, but having a pattern of
(39:32):
that happening, I'm like what?
What is the lord trying toguide us towards?
yeah, exactly it would be easyto get upset saying, okay, we're
like at our you know finalstraw, you know what are we
doing right but, at the sametime, knowing the lord has
guided us with so much direction, has presented so many things
for us.
(39:54):
The healing that I had from mynerve pain was because the Lord
asked me to do something and Idid and the pain went away and
the doctors didn't know, wow.
So I'm like if the Lord hasthat much control over
everything, I need to be willingto give him a chance when he
makes me a promise.
Right and so, despite physicalor financial or familial issues
(40:17):
that might come up, I'm gratefulknowing that both my wife and I
have a firm foundation andunderstanding that the Lord has
plans that are far beyond themetrics of the natural man, and
I have to be okay, understandingthe eternal value of our
momentary difficulties.
(40:39):
So trying to measure myself byyou know, how the Lord sees me
is a lot different than you know.
Lily (40:46):
Looking at my retirement portfolio, no, but really though
, yeah, yeah, that is it.
Ryan (40:53):
Yeah.
So in answer to that question,yeah, like having life altering
evidence that he is involved,wants to be involved and has
plans that I could have neverunderstood, that were put in
place way before I knew thatthey were happening.
Like why would I doubt that now?
Lily (41:11):
Right, Right.
His ability to do that again.
If that is what his will isyeah and it doesn't have to be.
Ryan (41:19):
you know international relations, it could just be
little things.
Lily (41:23):
I just want a job.
Okay, Can I just have a jobplease?
Ryan (41:29):
I mean, that's the thing like knowing and understanding
that the Lord's desires for youare not just different, but
greater, in an eternal sense,than what you want for yourself
oftentimes is hard to let go ofBecause I'm thinking like I'm,
(41:49):
of that probably averageintelligence, if not more.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
I think I know some stuff.
Ryan (41:54):
I see other people doing things and I try to do that.
Yeah, and it's not working out,despite my best efforts in that
direction.
Yeah, and it's like it doesn'tmatter how good you are at
something.
The Lord is better and knowsmore about it.
Right, and to be willing togive that up without fighting.
It is really hard, that pride.
(42:17):
Yeah, those are discussions thatdearly, and I have had a lot
recently.
It's just like we.
We have all these plans andthey don't come together for
wacky and illogical reasons.
Yeah, maybe the lord's tryingto prevent stuff too, so
interesting the opportunitiesthat are closed can sometimes,
like going to Virginia, beopportunities for protection or
learning.
Lily (42:38):
Right, but you just don't even know until you're past them
, and sometimes we might noteven find out later, like who
even knows?
Ryan (42:45):
Yeah.
It wasn't until very recentlythat it hit me, when I was
asking about it, like, oh yeah,I was taken to Virginia for my
safety and despite the horribletime that I had there, it could
have been worse.
Lily (42:58):
It could have been worse yeah.
Ryan (42:59):
And I wouldn't have been able to handle that if I was
home.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Right.
Ryan (43:04):
Seeing the daily misery that was going on around me,
knowing exactly how I would haveturned away from that to
comfort myself.
Right so Right, right so Right.
Yeah, we don't always find out,but just knowing that like the
things that you're beingprevented from going into, as
well as opportunities that arebeing saved until the proper
time are the Lord's plan andthey're better than your plans.
Yeah.
(43:25):
And so I'm excited to see whatcomes next.
Hey, me too.
Oh man, oh man it is reallyalleviating when it comes to
those things having a sense ofbeing called to the fire of
affliction, knowing that theafflictions are going to be
(43:48):
consecrated, and alsounderstanding that you know the
author and finisher of our faithis an author and a finisher.
There is completion.
That is going to come so right.
It's comforting, in the mostuncomfortable circumstances,
knowing that right, waiting tillthe end, waiting till it's
finished.
Lily (44:09):
It's that hard, anxious, not not knowing what the future
holds.
Right, waiting to get to thatend.
That, I think, is just so.
At least that's where I get thepanicking of what's happening
next.
What am I doing next?
What is your plan?
You can just tell me your plan,can't?
You just tell me, like I'll doit?
(44:29):
Just tell me.
Well, actually, he, probably,he'd probably, if you were to
tell me a big well, that's nice,I actually want to do this,
just so you know it's funny I Ithink often of my, my mission.
Ryan (44:40):
I had a wacky, crazy mission uh um, if I was walking
into the mtc and the lord, letme know all the things that I
was going to go through as amissionary, yeah, I would have
turned around and got on the busback to Salt Lake.
But in the sense of daily steps, you know, like lead, kindly
light.
Just let me know one thing Ineed to do today, right, and
(45:02):
then you look back and see thatyou've been balancing on this
like tight wire and you're goingthrough flaming hoops and
sharks and everything.
Yeah, like, oh, that's why Ididn't need to know everything,
I just had to trust in him thathe'd get me through the sharks
and the fire, right.
Lily (45:19):
And now I'm safe on the other side, right well, maybe
that's why we have a veil too,so we're not like wasn't heaven
so nice, so easy?
Ryan (45:31):
like I'm in a happy neighborhood, but that one's way
better Way better.
Oh man, yeah, I think aboutthat sometimes, Like if we knew
the whole plan.
We're like, oh, I'm opting out,no Right.
That sounds hard.
Lily (45:46):
Right.
Ryan (45:49):
Yeah, there's also that, and then the aspect of just
trusting him.
Speaker 3 (45:52):
Yeah.
Ryan (45:53):
So there's a word in Tagalog that I love from a
linguistic perspective.
The word tiwala means trust,and there's a type of
conjugation in the Philippineswhere you take a root word and
you conjugate it this way tomean that it represents your
livelihood.
(46:13):
So like is that is fish.
If you are a munging ista, thatmeans you're a fisherman.
Okay, that you are so involvedin fish that you can reliably be
found.
It's a future tense verb thatyou can be reliably found in the
future to be doing that doing?
you know fish fishing, yeah,fish fishing.
Yeah, gamot is medicine.
(46:34):
Manga gamot is a doctor.
Lily (46:36):
Doctor right.
Ryan (46:37):
Your livelihood is based around this thing.
You can be reliably found doingit.
Lily (46:41):
Interesting.
Ryan (46:42):
So to take the word diwala and conjugate it in the same
way is to be a believer that youhave made trusting in God such
a part of your life and the wayyou live that you can, in the
future, be reliably found stilltrusting in him to the point
where it is your vocation.
Like.
(47:03):
That word to me is so powerful,just in the way it's presented.
And when you say I believe inChrist and that it is a future
tense calling, like you will seeme continuing to believe.
Right, it's powerful to be abeliever in such a way that it
can be called upon as yourprofession.
Right that's so cool Right?
Yeah, I think about that a lotwhen it comes to, like you know,
(47:24):
have you had the mighty changeof heart?
Do you have Christ?
Lily (47:26):
engraved upon your image.
That's what I was just thinkingof too.
Yeah, that's what I was justthinking.
Yeah, like literally taking hisname upon you and all of that,
that we covenant and everything,and writing his name.
You know what do they say inthe fleshy tabernacle of your
soul, or whatever they say?
Yeah, that's literally what.
That is Right.
It becomes so ingrained intoyou that you become that Right.
Ryan (47:51):
Yeah, yeah, we're just thinking like, as you're
standing before the judgment barand you know christ is there
advocating for you and you knowsaying like this is this person
and their profession was abeliever.
Like how powerful you know, yes, um, allowing that change to
happen, when you know we'rekicking against it sometimes,
(48:13):
but I guess that's whatedification is.
You know we're kicking againstit sometimes, but I guess that's
what edification is, you know,allowing that change to happen?
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Right.
Ryan (48:22):
Oh man, yeah, think of you letting me share that.
That's not something that youget to talk about very often.
Lily (48:27):
No, I think that's really powerful and, honestly, I don't
have any other questions.
I think you've done anincredible job sharing
everything, and so, if if youhave any, any other thoughts,
I'd love for you to share them,and we can keep talking as long
as you would like, or, if youare ready to wrap up, you can
just share.
I'd like you can share atestimony.
Ryan (48:46):
I think at this point, um, I would just like to say that
perfection is not what'srequired in order for those
changes to take place.
Um, I think if anyone's anexample of that, it's me,
considering you know where I wasand the change that happened
from who I used to be until now.
There's a friend of mine wroteme a letter as a missionary.
(49:08):
He says you're probably havinga hard time right now, but if
you're having a bad time, don'tforget the godless heathen you
used to be.
That was the entire letter andas insulting and funny as that
was, I'm like oh yeah yeah whatI'm doing now is so far
(49:28):
different and I'm invested in it.
This matters to me when I usedto be that godless heathen right
exactly um, but knowing thatit's just the little steps and
allowances I guess the, in asense, humility, um, allowing
your will and volition to beshared with with heavenly father
that can change you at afundamental level, and I can
(49:56):
testify to that power.
There are still angels thatminister unto the faithful.
There are still miracles thatcan take place, large and small,
evident or otherwise, and therecognition that these are
things that are happening allthe time, with or without our
input, is just a fantastic thing, and we can allow ourselves to
(50:16):
be more and more involved inthat.
Like I, can testify to thepower that forgiveness has and
redemption and the life-changingways in which the lord can
participate in in anyone's lifeif you're allowing to give him
the power to do so, um.
So I think that is my testimonyand I'll leave that in the name
of Jesus Christ, amen thank youso much, ryan, for coming
(50:38):
tonight.
Lily (50:39):
This has been amazing thank you for sharing, thank you
for having me thanks again fortuning in to More Than
Coincidence, remembering JesusChrist in your story.
Please follow us on socialmedia or share us with a friend.
If you have an experience you'dlike to share, feel free to
reach out tomorethancoincidencerememberjesus
.
Please follow us on socialmedia or share us with a friend.
(50:59):
If you have an experience you'dlike to share, feel free to
reach out tomorethancoincidencerememberhim
at gmailcom.
I can't wait to hear all of theamazing memories you all have
of our Savior.
See you next time.
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