July 9, 2025 • 34 mins
Eve's simple declaration after giving birth to Cain—"I have gotten a man-child with the help of the Lord"—reveals a profound theological truth that modern society has largely forgotten: God alone opens and closes the womb. In this thought-provoking episode, Dr. Robert Jackson and his wife Carlotta trace this understanding through Scripture, examining how women like Sarah, Rachel, Leah, and Hannah all discovered this reality through their own struggles with fertility.
Against this biblical backdrop, the Jacksons examine our current global fertility crisis. With birth rates plummeting worldwide—Vietnam abandoning its two-child policy, the United States hovering at just 1.62 children per woman, and aging populations threatening economic stability across developed nations—we're witnessing the consequences of viewing children as burdens rather than blessings.
What's driving this decline? The Jacksons identify three cultural forces: widespread birth control, women prioritizing careers over motherhood, and rampant materialism that calculates children primarily as financial liabilities. These forces directly contradict Scripture's consistent portrayal of children as divine gifts (Psalm 127:3-5).
The conversation takes a personal turn when Carlotta, herself highly educated with numerous professional opportunities, shares why she chose to be a stay-at-home mother of nine children. Her counter-cultural decision wasn't always easy, but it was grounded in faith rather than fear—a perspective she passionately encourages younger women to embrace.
This episode challenges listeners to reconsider whether our attitudes toward family planning reflect biblical wisdom or merely cultural conditioning. When Pope Francis observes that "birth rates reveal how much happiness is present in society," he highlights what might be the most overlooked truth in our discussions about fertility: our willingness to welcome children reveals much about our faith, values, and ultimate source of security.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country, hosted by author andphysician Dr Robert Jackson Papa
, can you tell me a story?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Do you really want me to tell you a story?
Well, you go, get your brotherand your sisters and I will tell
you a story.
Well, you go, get your brotherand your sisters and I will tell
you a story.
Welcome to Devotions with DrPapa.
Gather around, grab your Biblesand let us look into the
written Word, which reveals tous the living Word, which is our
(00:40):
Lord Jesus Christ.
Well, today we're in Genesis,chapter 4.
We've finally gotten to chapter4.
And we're looking at verse 1 inGenesis, chapter 4.
Now the man had relations withhis wife, eve, and she conceived
(01:00):
and gave birth to Cain, and shesaid I have gotten a man-child
with the help of the Lord,despite the pain that God
promised would be associatedwith child-bearing as a
consequence of the cursed, everejoiced at holding a son in her
(01:27):
arms and she praised God forhis help and his assistance in
having slash bearing a man-child.
In praising God, sheacknowledges that God is the
giver of life and thatultimately, god opens and closes
(01:52):
the womb.
Now that brings a question tomind who else learned that very
same lesson?
Now I have with me today mylovely bride, miss Carlotta,
hello everyone.
So I'm going to throw thatquestion over to Miss Carlotta
(02:15):
and I'm going to let her answerthat question.
Who else learned that lesson?
That same lesson that Evelearned, but many, many years
later?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, we have in Scripture Genesis 16, 2, just a
few chapters later, where itsays so Sarah said to Abram Now
behold, the Lord has preventedme from bearing children, so he
had closed her womb.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And then, a few chapters later, in Genesis 21,
verse 1 and 2, Now, if y'allwill remember, god had promised
to Abraham and Sarah that theywould have a child, but many
years had transpired and thatpromise had not come true.
And so, finally, in Genesis,chapter 21, the Lord took note
(03:16):
of Sarah, took note of the factthat she was barren, that she
had not born a child, despitethe promise of God, despite the
promise that he had given to theboth of them.
And the Lord did for Sarah ashe had promised, and God opened
(03:36):
her womb, and the Bible says soSarah conceived.
Now let's move forward in thescriptures and we'll go from
Abraham to Isaac, then to Jacob,and in Genesis, chapter 29 and
verse 31.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'll read it Alright go, ms Carlotta.
Now the Lord saw that Leah wasunloved and he opened her womb.
But Rachel was barren.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now, if you remember, jacob's father-in-law, laban,
had deceived Jacob.
He thought he was going tomarry the second daughter,
Rachel, whom he genuinely loved.
Laban deceived him on hiswedding night and gave him the
older daughter, leah.
(04:27):
Jacob had to work seven moreyears in order to obtain Rachel,
the number two daughter, andthis scripture tells us that
Leah conceived, she bore a child, god opened her womb and then,
(04:47):
in Genesis, chapter 30, verses 1and 2, ms Carlotta.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Now, when Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children,
she became jealous of hersister and she said to Jacob
give me children or else I die.
Then Jacob's anger burnedagainst Rachel and he said am I
in the place of God who haswithheld from you the fruit of
the?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
womb.
Now, a little family conflicthere, a little dialogue, a
heated dialogue between husbandand wife, and she challenges her
husband that he should give heran offspring, and he responds
saying am I in the place of Godthat I should give you a child?
(05:31):
Now, that's a very importantstatement and we have to wrap
our mind around this, becauseJacob acknowledges that it's
only God who opens and closesthe womb.
God is the sovereign Lord ofthe universe, the Lord, god
(05:52):
Almighty, the God of the heavensand the earth, and it is he
alone who opens and closes thewomb.
Now fast forward a little bitto Genesis, chapter 30 and verse
22.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Then God remembered Rachel, and God gave heed to her
and opened her womb.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So God, ultimately, is the one who opens and closes
the womb.
Now, when we say that, we haveto understand that when Rachel
prayed, it was God who heard herprayer and it was God who
listened to her prayer and itwas God who opened her womb in
(06:34):
answer to her prayer.
And if you remember, many yearslater, when Hannah went to the
tabernacle to pray because shealso was barren and she was
kneeling at the altar there andpraying and Eli the priest
accuses her of being a wicked,intoxicated woman, when he sees
(07:01):
her lips moving, but no word, nosound coming from her mouth,
and she says no, no, I'm not awicked woman, but I am a woman
in distress.
She explains her situation toEli the priest and he says to
her go your way, and this timenext year you will have a child,
(07:24):
I think.
He explicitly says a son.
And, sure enough, a year later,in answer to her prayer, hannah
bore a son named Samuel.
Samuel, that's right, samuel.
And so and Samuel became one ofthe great judges, the great
deliverers in Israel, thehistory of Israel, so much so
(07:50):
that much, much listen to theprayer of this people.
God puts Samuel in the samecategory with Moses.
(08:12):
So listen, why would Hannah pray, why would Rachel pray, if it
were not God who opens andcloses the womb?
Why do we pray today for youngwomen who cannot conceive if it
were not a sovereign God inheaven who opens and closes the
(08:37):
womb?
You see, my patients spendthousands of dollars trying to
achieve a pregnancy at thefertility specialist, sometimes
to no avail.
And then, on the other hand,they try all measures of devices
to avoid conception and theystill end up pregnant.
(09:01):
Why is that, dear listener?
Because, you see, it is God whoopens and closes the womb.
Now let's look at anotherscripture in Psalms, chapter 139
, verses 13 to 16.
And I'm going to ask Ms Jacksonif she would read those few
verses for us again.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst
weave me in my mother's womb.
I will give thanks to thee, forI am fearfully and wonderfully
made.
Wonderful are thy works, and mysoul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden fromthee when I was made in secret
and skillfully wrought in thedepths of the earth.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance.
Now, you see, the psalmistunderstood that it was the
sovereign hand of God thatweaved his unformed substance in
his mother's womb, that hisinward parts were formed by the
mighty hand of God and that hewas compelledfully and
(10:17):
wonderfully made, and that hissoul knew very well that his
frame was not hidden from Godwhen it was made in the secret
place that he had beenskillfully wrought in the depths
of his mother's womb.
David knew that and he didn'thave to be divinely informed.
(10:42):
Every individual knows thatlittle babies come from their
mother's womb and that it's amiraculous thing when those
little babies come into thesunshine and are held in their
father's arms and they look intotheir eyes and all of a sudden
(11:07):
realize that they have to be afather and they have to care for
this innocent little child thatjust stare at them with
blinking eyes and they realize,oh my goodness, I'm a dad.
And what am I supposed to dowith this little baby that is
fearfully and wonderfully made?
(11:30):
Now I want us to talk about anarticle that Ms Carlotta and I
just read recently in aBreakpoint article by John Stone
Street just earlier this monthactually and it talked about the
situation in Vietnam.
Would you like to help us outwith that, ms Jackson?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, early this month Vietnam scrapped its
longstanding two-child policy.
That has tanked the nation'sbirth rate and threatened its
economic stability.
And that's a quote by JohnStone Street.
They are having a birth rate of1.91 children per woman in
Vietnam.
So it's below the replacement,but above much of the Western
(12:13):
world.
What I mean by replacement rate.
They think that 2.7 children isa replacement rate, so 1.91 is
below the replacement rate.
In fact it's very interestingto look at the worldometer
Everyone should go and look atit to see what the population
(12:34):
statistics are for every countryin the world and it actually
says their birth rate is 1.88children per woman, not 1.91.
But their loss of population isan existential threat to them
because they won't have peoplewho will support the senior
citizens, they won't haveworkers.
That's right.
Their economy will fall.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
And this is true of most countries in this chart
that I saw on Worldometer today.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, and what's happening is that national
attempts to control fertilityhave really not worked, and it's
just as doubtful that financialincentives and appeals to
national identity will work toreverse the trend.
Now, why is that?
Well, it's because of culturaltrends, and those cultural
(13:30):
trends are the invention ofbirth control, the pushing of
women into the marketplace andpushing women into careers, and
materialism.
Those are three things that arecultural trends that are simply
(13:51):
going to continue to push thebirth rate down, down, down, and
not just in Vietnam, but allacross the Western world, and
even in the United States therewas not a single country
increasing in their fertilityrate that I saw, that's right,
and there are lots of countriesthat don't have any kind of
coercive one child per family,birth control, birth coercion
(14:20):
like China and Vietnam and likeIndia had for 20 years.
But there are external pressuresthat are pushing the birth
rates down in so many nationsand those external cultural
policies are birth control,women going into the working
(14:42):
world, the marketplace andmaterialism.
And we'll get to some of thatmore in a minute.
But let me just read a coupleof paragraphs from John Stone
Street and you'll understand alittle more.
He says there are many theorieswhy fertility rates have been
falling, especially acrossWestern nations.
(15:03):
Affluent and educated women inthe West have long been told to
not want children becausechildren will interfere with
their freedom, their careers,lifestyle choices and personal
happiness.
Some studies also point to agender gap in which women want
(15:27):
babies but men do not.
Thankfully, that trend seems tobe changing.
In short, ideas can be just aspowerful as coercive policy when
it comes to reducing fertility.
Whether those ideas promisehappiness and fulfillment or a
(15:50):
way of saving the planet from anecological crisis makes no
difference.
In the end, the result is stilla crisis that will manifest
both in economics and nationalsecurity.
In his magisterial work the Wayof the Modern World.
Regent College Professor CraigGay noted that as the world
(16:16):
became more godless and secularin the modern period, its values
changed.
Prioritized above all else, DrGay argued, were the values of
convenience, efficiency andchoice, each of which implied a
level of control that humans,whether individuals or
(16:39):
governments, could exert overnature.
This is our world, not God's,and we should live like it.
In no area of human interactionhas this been more evident than
in the realm of humanprocreation.
Decisions about family andhaving children are almost
exclusively understood asmatters of personal or, in the
(17:04):
cases of China and Vietnam,state choice.
This is the precise opposite ofthinking of children as
blessings and our decisions tohave them in light of our
responsibilities as human beingsin particular times and places.
The.
The narrative that children area matter of choice is often
(17:29):
couched in promises of freedomand autonomy, but like the false
narrative of overpopulation,this one has also proved to be
flatly wrong.
In the University of Chicago'sGeneral Social Survey for 2022,
almost 40% of married women withchildren described themselves
(17:52):
as very happy, a numbersignificantly higher than any
other group of women.
Less than 22% of unmarriedwomen without children felt the
same way, and unmarried womenwith children were the least
likely to say they were veryhappy, at just over 16%.
(18:15):
As my colleague, Shane Morrisput it in a recent Breakpoint
commentary, the culturalimpression that diapers and
demands of little ones robpeople of joy is simply wrong.
Children are a gift from God.
That's a fact of reality, notmere religious opinion.
(18:36):
Those individuals and societiesthat embrace children, despite
the obstacles and challengesthat come with them, will
flourish.
Those that reject childrencannot and will not.
That comes from JohnStonestreet, from Breakpointorg,
(18:57):
and to all of that I say ahearty amen.
Now, Ms Jackson, you had a fewcomments about none other than
Elon Musk, Ms Jackson.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You had a few comments about none other than
Elon Musk.
Yes, I did read an article andI think everyone probably has
heard, no matter what you thinkabout Elon Musk, and we don't
recommend his adultery andfathering 14 children, I think,
with six women.
I do find his commentsfascinating, where he himself
says that unless we have morechildren, then we're not going
(19:32):
to replace ourselves and we'regoing to have a big problem in
the future.
I am trying to find the exactarticle.
Yeah, he urges parents to haveat least three children,
compensate for those choosing toremain childless, because we
need to replace ourselves with2.7 children per woman, and he
(19:53):
said that he was doing hiscontribution.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
In a bizarre sort of way.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, you know, the first command in Scripture that
God gave to man was in Genesis,chapter 1 and verse 28, where he
said Be fruitful and multiply,speaking to humans and also to
the animals, and to fill theearth and to subdue it.
And has God ever rescinded thiscommand anywhere in Scripture?
(20:23):
I haven't read it.
No, it's not there.
It's not there.
It's not there.
But you see, there's a culturalbias against children and
against childbearing.
Jesus welcomed the littlechildren into his arms and yet
our society views children as aliability rather than a blessing
(20:45):
.
And yet what does the Scripturesay in Psalms 127, verse 3 and
5?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Behold, children are a gift of the Lord.
The fruit of the womb is areward, Like arrows in the hand
of a warrior.
So are the children of one'syouth.
How blessed is the man whosequiver is full of them.
They shall not be ashamed whenthey speak with their enemies in
the gate.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, my goodness darling, we've got nine children
.
You think our quiver is pertnear full?
It is.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
But I know people with more.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We know people with more.
Is that right?
And sometimes I'm jealousbecause I miss having little
children in our house.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Oh we have little children in our house.
We have grandchildren now,don't we?
Yeah, how many.
We just had the 19th last weekand the 20th is already on the
way.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
How about that?
Praise God, hallelujah.
Now, what was Psalms 128 andverse 3?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine within your
house.
Your children like olive plantsaround your table.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
That's right.
We used to pray for thoselittle olive plants around our
table, didn't we?
That they would grow andflourish.
That's right.
They would grow strong andstraight, and true.
And I still remember when oneof my children came to me and
said Dad, I know where you gotthat prayer from.
I said what prayer About theolive plants?
I said where from?
(22:03):
He said in the book of Psalms.
I just read it the other day.
Well now, what's the birth ratein the United States, darling,
do you?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
know, According to the Worldometer it's 1.62, with
a median age, and this is whatstruck me with the age of 38.5.
The average age of Americans is38.5.
Japan's was almost 50.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
My goodness.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Japan has an aging culture they sure do.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well, and what's the replacement rate?
2.7 yeah we need to have 2.7per family just to replace our
population.
I mean, who's could take careof us old people?
If there's nobody having anybabies, who's going to pay into
social?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
security.
That's right, exactly right.
He's going to pay into SocialSecurity.
That's right, exactly right.
He's going to take care of us.
You and I have nine children totake care of us.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, that's why I had so many.
I knew I needed somebody totake care of you and me All
right.
Now, what do young couples say,Carlotta, when we ask them why
they don't want more children?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I think for most of them it comes down to money.
Yeah, it's a financialcalculation, isn't it that
children cost too much, thatthey can't afford them.
They can't send them to college, they won't be able to afford
the house of their dreams, orshe won't be able to go to work
and earn a career anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, and I ask my patients, my young couples that
come to see me in my office.
I often ask them why aren't yougoing to have more than one or
two children?
These are exactly the thingsthey say to me, and it always
boils down to a financialcalculation.
And you know, and really morethan that, it's a faith issue.
(23:43):
You know, I heard a guy say tome one time that where God gives
children, god gives meat, whichreally means that when God
gives us children, he's going toprovide for us.
Whether you're rich or poor,whether you're educated or not,
it doesn't matter what yourposition in life is.
When God gives you children, aslong as you're trusting in God,
(24:05):
he's going to give you thefinancial resources with which
to care for them.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And what's the other quote that we used to tell
ourselves?
When the man showed up at ahome in England, he saw all the
children in the home and the mansaid these are they that make a
rich man poor?
And the father said, no, theseare they that make a poor man
rich Exactly right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And we're rich in children, aren't we darling?
We are, and thank the Lord forevery one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And you know I want to say something here.
Some people might look at usand say well, your husband's a
physician, y'all can affordchildren.
I have lots of friends who havemore children than we have and
who live on a dime and they'remaking it and their homes are
happy homes.
They may be more crowded, theymay not eat steak every week,
(24:59):
they may not go out to thefinest restaurants Neither do we
but they love their childrenand they are glad they did it.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
They have no regrets, that's right, they're not
professional people, but Godprovides for them, that's right.
Exactly right.
They're being obedient to God'scommand and God provides for
them Exactly Now.
Ms Jackson, you graduated sixthin your high school class and
with high honors, magna cumlaude from Clemson.
(25:29):
Matter of fact, you graduatedfrom Clemson with grades better
than I did.
You were a missionary in theMiddle East for two years.
You taught nursing at thecollege level.
You were a home health nurse,you were a CCU nurse, you
started out on your master's andnow here you are, the mother of
nine children and grandmotherfor 19 children.
(25:53):
What persuaded you to be astay-at-home mom?
I mean, you could have beenanything you wanted to be
darling.
You could have been a doctor.
You could have been anadministrator of a college-level
nursing program.
What made you stay home and bea mom?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I think that when I see my little granddaughters
play with the baby dolls, justlike I did at their age, I have
a picture of me staying in frontof Christmas tree with the baby
doll.
I really believe the Lord putsit into our hearts to want to be
a mom and somehow a wife and amom.
And somehow I did not allow theculture to change that desire
(26:37):
in my heart.
I always I wanted to be a nursebut also more than anything,
knew I wanted to be a wife and amom all of my life and to stay
at home and make a home.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I keep her at home.
You know what the Bible callsit.
That's right, I keep her athome.
That's right.
That's right.
I tell my young moms that thegreatest job in the universe is
being a mom and I tell themdon't let anything distract you
from that.
Well, how many kids did youwant in the very beginning?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You are from a family of four and I'm from a family
of four, so we thought we wouldhave four, right?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
yeah, we did.
Well, what changed?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
that somewhere along about the third child, we
started being exposed to largerfamilies yeah, we did, we read a
book or two I cannot rememberthe names of those books and we
were just exposed tocounter-cultural thinking and we
began to realize that we hadbeen raised in a culture that
(27:36):
encouraged women to work,encouraged women to limit their
family size, and we decided thatthat was not biblical.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, we did, didn't we?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
And so we decided to throw away the birth control and
that we would allow the Lord togive us as many children as he
would allow us to have.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
So would you say that you embraced the notion of God
controlling your procreativityrather than self-control?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I don't know that.
I would say I embraced it.
Sometimes it was hard to bepregnant again, but I had the
desire to be obedient.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, what did all that do for your attitude
towards childbearing?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I didn't, I was not afraid.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
That's right there was no fear.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
There really wasn't.
I was not afraid to getpregnant Sometimes.
I just didn't want to bepregnant again just because I
was.
It's physically hard,physically hard, but I just
didn't want to be pregnant againjust because I was Physically
hard.
Physically hard, but I was notafraid.
I was not afraid of what wouldhappen.
I mean, our sixth child hadspecial needs, was physically
ill and I could have been afraid.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And I could have been afraid of what people might
have said and I'm sure they didsay things behind our back never
to our face, but maybe behindour back.
But the Lord took away thatfear and I'm so glad that he
helped me to trust Him and leannot on my own understanding.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Because my understanding was having been
raised in a time of one of thewaves of feminism and going to
work and having a career.
But God gave me a betterunderstanding and I happen to
believe that it happened to be abiblical understanding of how
he views children.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Now what do you, as a mother of nine children and 19
grandchildren, have to say toyoung moms out there?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Don't be afraid, it is a matter of faith.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It is a matter of faith, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yes it is.
And don't listen to the world.
Get off your phones, don'tlisten to social media.
We read another article byBreakpoint that talked about the
influence of TikTok, and thoughno one would tell you, don't
have children there are allkinds of subtle suggestions
(29:55):
through media that wouldencourage you to want a bigger
home, to be envious of someonewho has things that you don't
have and therefore you need togo to work to have those things
are to have.
Provide all the opportunitiesfor your child so that they can
go to the best school or mostexpensive school in the country
(30:19):
and have a coveted degree fromsome higher level higher level
college.
and I just um, I just wanted theLord's will to be done in my
life and and I'm willing to beobedient and I decided that that
was better than all of theother stuff and all the um
(30:41):
things of this world.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, now, last question, we'll be done.
What was your emotionalresponse to Eve, the mother of
all the living, when you readher statement?
I have gotten a man-child withthe help of the Lord.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Well, she recognized who was in charge, didn't she?
Yeah, and I admire her and Ithought, yeah, eve, go, eve, you
understand, you get it.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And I encourage you women to get it, to get what the
Word of God has to say aboutrejoicing in having children and
to consider them a blessing.
And Eve recognized that, thatit was a blessing.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
And she rejoiced in her first child, she rejoiced in
her second child, and you and Ishould always rejoice in having
children and she probably hadmore children.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
We just don't know who they are.
She probably wasn't done sheprobably wasn't done, was she?
I'm confident she was not doneall right, I don't think god
limited her to two children atthe very beginning?
I doubt it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I doubt she lived a long time.
I'm satisfied.
I mean Adam lived a whole pileof years.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
If you understand the beginning, you have to realize
that Cain and Abel married theirsister.
That's right.
The gene pool was pure.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
That's right, it was pure.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And there were no other people.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Exactly right, all right.
Well, look, our time is up,darling.
I appreciate you being on moreon devotions with Dr Papa.
I'm delighted to have you.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Thank you for letting me talk there just at the end,
all right.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Well, you're listening to devotions with Dr
Papa.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I want to recommend a book.
Okay, go for it I just startedit and I thought, oh my, I
should have read this bookbefore we did this podcast.
I don't know, I have not readit.
I read a few pages today, butit's by Timothy Carney and I
must have seen it in somearticle, read about it and
ordered it.
It's called Family Unfriendlyhow Our Culture Made Raising
Kids Much Harder Than it Needsto Be.
Unfriendly how our culture maderaising kids much harder than
(32:49):
it needs to be.
And I want to read a quote.
I don't quote Pope Francis veryoften, but he said this and
this would be a good way toclose us out.
Birth rates and a welcomingattitude reveal how much
happiness is present in society.
A happy community naturallydevelops the desire to generate
(33:10):
and welcome others, while anunhappy society is reduced to a
group of individuals defendingwhat they have at all costs.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh, very interesting quote, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, and some research this man did.
Who wrote the book Happier menand women prefer to Become
Parents Sooner, how about that?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
How about that?
Okay, tell us the title of thebook again Family.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Unfriendly.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
And it's by a man named.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Timothy Carney C-A-R-N-E-Y.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Good enough, all right, you're listening to
Devotions with Dr Papa.
I'll be back again next week.
Until then, may the Lord blessyou real good.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry or to
schedule a speaking engagement,go to their Facebook page,
instagram or webpage atjacksonfamilyministrycom.
Also, don't forget to check outDr Jackson's books that are
available on Amazon His thirdbook Turkey Tales and Bible
(34:14):
Truths, and his father'sbiography on Laughter Silvered
Wings the story of a countrydoctor, a family man, a patriot
and a political activist.
This podcast is produced by BobSloan Audio Productions.
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country, hosted by author andphysician Dr Robert Jackson Papa
, can you tell me a story?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Do you really want me to tell you a story?
Well, you go, get your brotherand your sisters and I will tell
you a story.
Well, you go, get your brotherand your sisters and I will tell
you a story.
Welcome to Devotions with DrPapa.
Gather around, grab your Biblesand let us look into the
written Word, which reveals tous the living Word, which is our
(00:40):
Lord Jesus Christ.
Well, today we're in Genesis,chapter 4.
We've finally gotten to chapter4.
And we're looking at verse 1 inGenesis, chapter 4.
Now the man had relations withhis wife, eve, and she conceived
(01:00):
and gave birth to Cain, and shesaid I have gotten a man-child
with the help of the Lord,despite the pain that God
promised would be associatedwith child-bearing as a
consequence of the cursed, everejoiced at holding a son in her
(01:27):
arms and she praised God forhis help and his assistance in
having slash bearing a man-child.
In praising God, sheacknowledges that God is the
giver of life and thatultimately, god opens and closes
(01:52):
the womb.
Now that brings a question tomind who else learned that very
same lesson?
Now I have with me today mylovely bride, miss Carlotta,
hello everyone.
So I'm going to throw thatquestion over to Miss Carlotta
(02:15):
and I'm going to let her answerthat question.
Who else learned that lesson?
That same lesson that Evelearned, but many, many years
later?
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, we have in Scripture Genesis 16, 2, just a
few chapters later, where itsays so Sarah said to Abram Now
behold, the Lord has preventedme from bearing children, so he
had closed her womb.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
And then, a few chapters later, in Genesis 21,
verse 1 and 2, Now, if y'allwill remember, god had promised
to Abraham and Sarah that theywould have a child, but many
years had transpired and thatpromise had not come true.
And so, finally, in Genesis,chapter 21, the Lord took note
(03:16):
of Sarah, took note of the factthat she was barren, that she
had not born a child, despitethe promise of God, despite the
promise that he had given to theboth of them.
And the Lord did for Sarah ashe had promised, and God opened
(03:36):
her womb, and the Bible says soSarah conceived.
Now let's move forward in thescriptures and we'll go from
Abraham to Isaac, then to Jacob,and in Genesis, chapter 29 and
verse 31.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I'll read it Alright go, ms Carlotta.
Now the Lord saw that Leah wasunloved and he opened her womb.
But Rachel was barren.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Now, if you remember, jacob's father-in-law, laban,
had deceived Jacob.
He thought he was going tomarry the second daughter,
Rachel, whom he genuinely loved.
Laban deceived him on hiswedding night and gave him the
older daughter, leah.
(04:27):
Jacob had to work seven moreyears in order to obtain Rachel,
the number two daughter, andthis scripture tells us that
Leah conceived, she bore a child, god opened her womb and then,
(04:47):
in Genesis, chapter 30, verses 1and 2, ms Carlotta.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Now, when Rachel saw that she bore Jacob no children,
she became jealous of hersister and she said to Jacob
give me children or else I die.
Then Jacob's anger burnedagainst Rachel and he said am I
in the place of God who haswithheld from you the fruit of
the?
Speaker 2 (05:08):
womb.
Now, a little family conflicthere, a little dialogue, a
heated dialogue between husbandand wife, and she challenges her
husband that he should give heran offspring, and he responds
saying am I in the place of Godthat I should give you a child?
(05:31):
Now, that's a very importantstatement and we have to wrap
our mind around this, becauseJacob acknowledges that it's
only God who opens and closesthe womb.
God is the sovereign Lord ofthe universe, the Lord, god
(05:52):
Almighty, the God of the heavensand the earth, and it is he
alone who opens and closes thewomb.
Now fast forward a little bitto Genesis, chapter 30 and verse
22.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
Then God remembered Rachel, and God gave heed to her
and opened her womb.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
So God, ultimately, is the one who opens and closes
the womb.
Now, when we say that, we haveto understand that when Rachel
prayed, it was God who heard herprayer and it was God who
listened to her prayer and itwas God who opened her womb in
(06:34):
answer to her prayer.
And if you remember, many yearslater, when Hannah went to the
tabernacle to pray because shealso was barren and she was
kneeling at the altar there andpraying and Eli the priest
accuses her of being a wicked,intoxicated woman, when he sees
(07:01):
her lips moving, but no word, nosound coming from her mouth,
and she says no, no, I'm not awicked woman, but I am a woman
in distress.
She explains her situation toEli the priest and he says to
her go your way, and this timenext year you will have a child,
(07:24):
I think.
He explicitly says a son.
And, sure enough, a year later,in answer to her prayer, hannah
bore a son named Samuel.
Samuel, that's right, samuel.
And so and Samuel became one ofthe great judges, the great
deliverers in Israel, thehistory of Israel, so much so
(07:50):
that much, much listen to theprayer of this people.
God puts Samuel in the samecategory with Moses.
(08:12):
So listen, why would Hannah pray, why would Rachel pray, if it
were not God who opens andcloses the womb?
Why do we pray today for youngwomen who cannot conceive if it
were not a sovereign God inheaven who opens and closes the
(08:37):
womb?
You see, my patients spendthousands of dollars trying to
achieve a pregnancy at thefertility specialist, sometimes
to no avail.
And then, on the other hand,they try all measures of devices
to avoid conception and theystill end up pregnant.
(09:01):
Why is that, dear listener?
Because, you see, it is God whoopens and closes the womb.
Now let's look at anotherscripture in Psalms, chapter 139
, verses 13 to 16.
And I'm going to ask Ms Jacksonif she would read those few
verses for us again.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For thou didst form my inward parts, thou didst
weave me in my mother's womb.
I will give thanks to thee, forI am fearfully and wonderfully
made.
Wonderful are thy works, and mysoul knows it very well.
My frame was not hidden fromthee when I was made in secret
and skillfully wrought in thedepths of the earth.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance.
Now, you see, the psalmistunderstood that it was the
sovereign hand of God thatweaved his unformed substance in
his mother's womb, that hisinward parts were formed by the
mighty hand of God and that hewas compelledfully and
(10:17):
wonderfully made, and that hissoul knew very well that his
frame was not hidden from Godwhen it was made in the secret
place that he had beenskillfully wrought in the depths
of his mother's womb.
David knew that and he didn'thave to be divinely informed.
(10:42):
Every individual knows thatlittle babies come from their
mother's womb and that it's amiraculous thing when those
little babies come into thesunshine and are held in their
father's arms and they look intotheir eyes and all of a sudden
(11:07):
realize that they have to be afather and they have to care for
this innocent little child thatjust stare at them with
blinking eyes and they realize,oh my goodness, I'm a dad.
And what am I supposed to dowith this little baby that is
fearfully and wonderfully made?
(11:30):
Now I want us to talk about anarticle that Ms Carlotta and I
just read recently in aBreakpoint article by John Stone
Street just earlier this monthactually and it talked about the
situation in Vietnam.
Would you like to help us outwith that, ms Jackson?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Well, early this month Vietnam scrapped its
longstanding two-child policy.
That has tanked the nation'sbirth rate and threatened its
economic stability.
And that's a quote by JohnStone Street.
They are having a birth rate of1.91 children per woman in
Vietnam.
So it's below the replacement,but above much of the Western
(12:13):
world.
What I mean by replacement rate.
They think that 2.7 children isa replacement rate, so 1.91 is
below the replacement rate.
In fact it's very interestingto look at the worldometer
Everyone should go and look atit to see what the population
(12:34):
statistics are for every countryin the world and it actually
says their birth rate is 1.88children per woman, not 1.91.
But their loss of population isan existential threat to them
because they won't have peoplewho will support the senior
citizens, they won't haveworkers.
That's right.
Their economy will fall.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
And this is true of most countries in this chart
that I saw on Worldometer today.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Yeah, and what's happening is that national
attempts to control fertilityhave really not worked, and it's
just as doubtful that financialincentives and appeals to
national identity will work toreverse the trend.
Now, why is that?
Well, it's because of culturaltrends, and those cultural
(13:30):
trends are the invention ofbirth control, the pushing of
women into the marketplace andpushing women into careers, and
materialism.
Those are three things that arecultural trends that are simply
(13:51):
going to continue to push thebirth rate down, down, down, and
not just in Vietnam, but allacross the Western world, and
even in the United States therewas not a single country
increasing in their fertilityrate that I saw, that's right,
and there are lots of countriesthat don't have any kind of
coercive one child per family,birth control, birth coercion
(14:20):
like China and Vietnam and likeIndia had for 20 years.
But there are external pressuresthat are pushing the birth
rates down in so many nationsand those external cultural
policies are birth control,women going into the working
(14:42):
world, the marketplace andmaterialism.
And we'll get to some of thatmore in a minute.
But let me just read a coupleof paragraphs from John Stone
Street and you'll understand alittle more.
He says there are many theorieswhy fertility rates have been
falling, especially acrossWestern nations.
(15:03):
Affluent and educated women inthe West have long been told to
not want children becausechildren will interfere with
their freedom, their careers,lifestyle choices and personal
happiness.
Some studies also point to agender gap in which women want
(15:27):
babies but men do not.
Thankfully, that trend seems tobe changing.
In short, ideas can be just aspowerful as coercive policy when
it comes to reducing fertility.
Whether those ideas promisehappiness and fulfillment or a
(15:50):
way of saving the planet from anecological crisis makes no
difference.
In the end, the result is stilla crisis that will manifest
both in economics and nationalsecurity.
In his magisterial work the Wayof the Modern World.
Regent College Professor CraigGay noted that as the world
(16:16):
became more godless and secularin the modern period, its values
changed.
Prioritized above all else, DrGay argued, were the values of
convenience, efficiency andchoice, each of which implied a
level of control that humans,whether individuals or
(16:39):
governments, could exert overnature.
This is our world, not God's,and we should live like it.
In no area of human interactionhas this been more evident than
in the realm of humanprocreation.
Decisions about family andhaving children are almost
exclusively understood asmatters of personal or, in the
(17:04):
cases of China and Vietnam,state choice.
This is the precise opposite ofthinking of children as
blessings and our decisions tohave them in light of our
responsibilities as human beingsin particular times and places.
The.
The narrative that children area matter of choice is often
(17:29):
couched in promises of freedomand autonomy, but like the false
narrative of overpopulation,this one has also proved to be
flatly wrong.
In the University of Chicago'sGeneral Social Survey for 2022,
almost 40% of married women withchildren described themselves
(17:52):
as very happy, a numbersignificantly higher than any
other group of women.
Less than 22% of unmarriedwomen without children felt the
same way, and unmarried womenwith children were the least
likely to say they were veryhappy, at just over 16%.
(18:15):
As my colleague, Shane Morrisput it in a recent Breakpoint
commentary, the culturalimpression that diapers and
demands of little ones robpeople of joy is simply wrong.
Children are a gift from God.
That's a fact of reality, notmere religious opinion.
(18:36):
Those individuals and societiesthat embrace children, despite
the obstacles and challengesthat come with them, will
flourish.
Those that reject childrencannot and will not.
That comes from JohnStonestreet, from Breakpointorg,
(18:57):
and to all of that I say ahearty amen.
Now, Ms Jackson, you had a fewcomments about none other than
Elon Musk, Ms Jackson.
Speaker 1 (19:09):
You had a few comments about none other than
Elon Musk.
Yes, I did read an article andI think everyone probably has
heard, no matter what you thinkabout Elon Musk, and we don't
recommend his adultery andfathering 14 children, I think,
with six women.
I do find his commentsfascinating, where he himself
says that unless we have morechildren, then we're not going
(19:32):
to replace ourselves and we'regoing to have a big problem in
the future.
I am trying to find the exactarticle.
Yeah, he urges parents to haveat least three children,
compensate for those choosing toremain childless, because we
need to replace ourselves with2.7 children per woman, and he
(19:53):
said that he was doing hiscontribution.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
In a bizarre sort of way.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, you know, the first command in Scripture that
God gave to man was in Genesis,chapter 1 and verse 28, where he
said Be fruitful and multiply,speaking to humans and also to
the animals, and to fill theearth and to subdue it.
And has God ever rescinded thiscommand anywhere in Scripture?
(20:23):
I haven't read it.
No, it's not there.
It's not there.
It's not there.
But you see, there's a culturalbias against children and
against childbearing.
Jesus welcomed the littlechildren into his arms and yet
our society views children as aliability rather than a blessing
(20:45):
.
And yet what does the Scripturesay in Psalms 127, verse 3 and
5?
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Behold, children are a gift of the Lord.
The fruit of the womb is areward, Like arrows in the hand
of a warrior.
So are the children of one'syouth.
How blessed is the man whosequiver is full of them.
They shall not be ashamed whenthey speak with their enemies in
the gate.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, my goodness darling, we've got nine children
.
You think our quiver is pertnear full?
It is.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
But I know people with more.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
We know people with more.
Is that right?
And sometimes I'm jealousbecause I miss having little
children in our house.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Oh we have little children in our house.
We have grandchildren now,don't we?
Yeah, how many.
We just had the 19th last weekand the 20th is already on the
way.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
How about that?
Praise God, hallelujah.
Now, what was Psalms 128 andverse 3?
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Your wife shall be like a fruitful vine within your
house.
Your children like olive plantsaround your table.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
That's right.
We used to pray for thoselittle olive plants around our
table, didn't we?
That they would grow andflourish.
That's right.
They would grow strong andstraight, and true.
And I still remember when oneof my children came to me and
said Dad, I know where you gotthat prayer from.
I said what prayer About theolive plants?
I said where from?
(22:03):
He said in the book of Psalms.
I just read it the other day.
Well now, what's the birth ratein the United States, darling,
do you?
Speaker 1 (22:13):
know, According to the Worldometer it's 1.62, with
a median age, and this is whatstruck me with the age of 38.5.
The average age of Americans is38.5.
Japan's was almost 50.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
My goodness.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
Japan has an aging culture they sure do.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Well, and what's the replacement rate?
2.7 yeah we need to have 2.7per family just to replace our
population.
I mean, who's could take careof us old people?
If there's nobody having anybabies, who's going to pay into
social?
Speaker 1 (22:45):
security.
That's right, exactly right.
He's going to pay into SocialSecurity.
That's right, exactly right.
He's going to take care of us.
You and I have nine children totake care of us.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, that's why I had so many.
I knew I needed somebody totake care of you and me All
right.
Now, what do young couples say,Carlotta, when we ask them why
they don't want more children?
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I think for most of them it comes down to money.
Yeah, it's a financialcalculation, isn't it that
children cost too much, thatthey can't afford them.
They can't send them to college, they won't be able to afford
the house of their dreams, orshe won't be able to go to work
and earn a career anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yeah, and I ask my patients, my young couples that
come to see me in my office.
I often ask them why aren't yougoing to have more than one or
two children?
These are exactly the thingsthey say to me, and it always
boils down to a financialcalculation.
And you know, and really morethan that, it's a faith issue.
(23:43):
You know, I heard a guy say tome one time that where God gives
children, god gives meat, whichreally means that when God
gives us children, he's going toprovide for us.
Whether you're rich or poor,whether you're educated or not,
it doesn't matter what yourposition in life is.
When God gives you children, aslong as you're trusting in God,
(24:05):
he's going to give you thefinancial resources with which
to care for them.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
And what's the other quote that we used to tell
ourselves?
When the man showed up at ahome in England, he saw all the
children in the home and the mansaid these are they that make a
rich man poor?
And the father said, no, theseare they that make a poor man
rich Exactly right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And we're rich in children, aren't we darling?
We are, and thank the Lord forevery one of them.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
And you know I want to say something here.
Some people might look at usand say well, your husband's a
physician, y'all can affordchildren.
I have lots of friends who havemore children than we have and
who live on a dime and they'remaking it and their homes are
happy homes.
They may be more crowded, theymay not eat steak every week,
(24:59):
they may not go out to thefinest restaurants Neither do we
but they love their childrenand they are glad they did it.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
They have no regrets, that's right, they're not
professional people, but Godprovides for them, that's right.
Exactly right.
They're being obedient to God'scommand and God provides for
them Exactly Now.
Ms Jackson, you graduated sixthin your high school class and
with high honors, magna cumlaude from Clemson.
(25:29):
Matter of fact, you graduatedfrom Clemson with grades better
than I did.
You were a missionary in theMiddle East for two years.
You taught nursing at thecollege level.
You were a home health nurse,you were a CCU nurse, you
started out on your master's andnow here you are, the mother of
nine children and grandmotherfor 19 children.
(25:53):
What persuaded you to be astay-at-home mom?
I mean, you could have beenanything you wanted to be
darling.
You could have been a doctor.
You could have been anadministrator of a college-level
nursing program.
What made you stay home and bea mom?
Speaker 1 (26:11):
I think that when I see my little granddaughters
play with the baby dolls, justlike I did at their age, I have
a picture of me staying in frontof Christmas tree with the baby
doll.
I really believe the Lord putsit into our hearts to want to be
a mom and somehow a wife and amom.
And somehow I did not allow theculture to change that desire
(26:37):
in my heart.
I always I wanted to be a nursebut also more than anything,
knew I wanted to be a wife and amom all of my life and to stay
at home and make a home.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I keep her at home.
You know what the Bible callsit.
That's right, I keep her athome.
That's right.
That's right.
I tell my young moms that thegreatest job in the universe is
being a mom and I tell themdon't let anything distract you
from that.
Well, how many kids did youwant in the very beginning?
Speaker 1 (27:03):
You are from a family of four and I'm from a family
of four, so we thought we wouldhave four, right?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
yeah, we did.
Well, what changed?
Speaker 1 (27:11):
that somewhere along about the third child, we
started being exposed to largerfamilies yeah, we did, we read a
book or two I cannot rememberthe names of those books and we
were just exposed tocounter-cultural thinking and we
began to realize that we hadbeen raised in a culture that
(27:36):
encouraged women to work,encouraged women to limit their
family size, and we decided thatthat was not biblical.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Yeah, we did, didn't we?
Speaker 1 (27:45):
And so we decided to throw away the birth control and
that we would allow the Lord togive us as many children as he
would allow us to have.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
So would you say that you embraced the notion of God
controlling your procreativityrather than self-control?
Speaker 1 (28:03):
I don't know that.
I would say I embraced it.
Sometimes it was hard to bepregnant again, but I had the
desire to be obedient.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Well, what did all that do for your attitude
towards childbearing?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I didn't, I was not afraid.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
That's right there was no fear.
Speaker 1 (28:21):
There really wasn't.
I was not afraid to getpregnant Sometimes.
I just didn't want to bepregnant again just because I
was.
It's physically hard,physically hard, but I just
didn't want to be pregnant againjust because I was Physically
hard.
Physically hard, but I was notafraid.
I was not afraid of what wouldhappen.
I mean, our sixth child hadspecial needs, was physically
ill and I could have been afraid.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
And I could have been afraid of what people might
have said and I'm sure they didsay things behind our back never
to our face, but maybe behindour back.
But the Lord took away thatfear and I'm so glad that he
helped me to trust Him and leannot on my own understanding.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Because my understanding was having been
raised in a time of one of thewaves of feminism and going to
work and having a career.
But God gave me a betterunderstanding and I happen to
believe that it happened to be abiblical understanding of how
he views children.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
Now what do you, as a mother of nine children and 19
grandchildren, have to say toyoung moms out there?
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Don't be afraid, it is a matter of faith.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
It is a matter of faith, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yes it is.
And don't listen to the world.
Get off your phones, don'tlisten to social media.
We read another article byBreakpoint that talked about the
influence of TikTok, and thoughno one would tell you, don't
have children there are allkinds of subtle suggestions
(29:55):
through media that wouldencourage you to want a bigger
home, to be envious of someonewho has things that you don't
have and therefore you need togo to work to have those things
are to have.
Provide all the opportunitiesfor your child so that they can
go to the best school or mostexpensive school in the country
(30:19):
and have a coveted degree fromsome higher level higher level
college.
and I just um, I just wanted theLord's will to be done in my
life and and I'm willing to beobedient and I decided that that
was better than all of theother stuff and all the um
(30:41):
things of this world.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Yeah, now, last question, we'll be done.
What was your emotionalresponse to Eve, the mother of
all the living, when you readher statement?
I have gotten a man-child withthe help of the Lord.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
Well, she recognized who was in charge, didn't she?
Yeah, and I admire her and Ithought, yeah, eve, go, eve, you
understand, you get it.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:07):
And I encourage you women to get it, to get what the
Word of God has to say aboutrejoicing in having children and
to consider them a blessing.
And Eve recognized that, thatit was a blessing.
Speaker 2 (31:22):
And she rejoiced in her first child, she rejoiced in
her second child, and you and Ishould always rejoice in having
children and she probably hadmore children.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
We just don't know who they are.
She probably wasn't done sheprobably wasn't done, was she?
I'm confident she was not doneall right, I don't think god
limited her to two children atthe very beginning?
I doubt it.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I doubt she lived a long time.
I'm satisfied.
I mean Adam lived a whole pileof years.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
If you understand the beginning, you have to realize
that Cain and Abel married theirsister.
That's right.
The gene pool was pure.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
That's right, it was pure.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
And there were no other people.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Exactly right, all right.
Well, look, our time is up,darling.
I appreciate you being on moreon devotions with Dr Papa.
I'm delighted to have you.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
Thank you for letting me talk there just at the end,
all right.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Well, you're listening to devotions with Dr
Papa.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
I want to recommend a book.
Okay, go for it I just startedit and I thought, oh my, I
should have read this bookbefore we did this podcast.
I don't know, I have not readit.
I read a few pages today, butit's by Timothy Carney and I
must have seen it in somearticle, read about it and
ordered it.
It's called Family Unfriendlyhow Our Culture Made Raising
Kids Much Harder Than it Needsto Be.
Unfriendly how our culture maderaising kids much harder than
(32:49):
it needs to be.
And I want to read a quote.
I don't quote Pope Francis veryoften, but he said this and
this would be a good way toclose us out.
Birth rates and a welcomingattitude reveal how much
happiness is present in society.
A happy community naturallydevelops the desire to generate
(33:10):
and welcome others, while anunhappy society is reduced to a
group of individuals defendingwhat they have at all costs.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Oh, very interesting quote, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Yeah, and some research this man did.
Who wrote the book Happier menand women prefer to Become
Parents Sooner, how about that?
Speaker 2 (33:31):
How about that?
Okay, tell us the title of thebook again Family.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
Unfriendly.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
And it's by a man named.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Timothy Carney C-A-R-N-E-Y.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
Good enough, all right, you're listening to
Devotions with Dr Papa.
I'll be back again next week.
Until then, may the Lord blessyou real good.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry or to
schedule a speaking engagement,go to their Facebook page,
instagram or webpage atjacksonfamilyministrycom.
Also, don't forget to check outDr Jackson's books that are
available on Amazon His thirdbook Turkey Tales and Bible
(34:14):
Truths, and his father'sbiography on Laughter Silvered
Wings the story of a countrydoctor, a family man, a patriot
and a political activist.
This podcast is produced by BobSloan Audio Productions.
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