July 26, 2025 • 23 mins
Dr. Matt Clark, Executive Director of Personhood South Carolina, brings clarity, conviction, and a path forward for the pro-life movement in this compelling conversation about ending abortion in America.
What makes this discussion unique is Clark's unflinching honesty about the current state of pro-life efforts. "The pro-life world is fractured," he explains, before laying out a biblical vision for victory built on eternal principles rather than political expediency. As both a practicing physician and pastor, Clark brings a dual perspective that grounds his advocacy in both scientific reality and spiritual conviction.
At the heart of his message is a crucial distinction often overlooked in pro-life circles: the need to be both "100% pro-life" and "100% pro-dignity." This means not only protecting every child from conception without exception but also preserving their dignity through equal legal protection under law. Clark tackles the divisive arguments between incremental and abolitionist approaches with thoughtful biblical wisdom, offering a third way that could unify disparate pro-life groups.
The conversation doesn't shy away from uncomfortable truths. Clark addresses head-on why South Carolina's legislature remains "paralyzed" despite having a GOP supermajority and the legal authority to end abortion post-Dobbs. He also lovingly but firmly challenges specific pro-life organizations he believes have adopted problematic positions, demonstrating how to disagree with grace while maintaining clarity on principles.
Perhaps most powerful is Clark's call for a Christ-like approach to advocacy, modeled after William Wilberforce, whose eloquence and character won over even his fiercest opponents. "We need to be like Jesus, full of grace and truth," Clark urges, admitting his own past failures in this area.
Whether you're a seasoned pro-life advocate seeking fresh perspective or someone wanting to understand this complex issue more deeply, this conversation offers valuable insights that transcend typical political talking points and get to the heart of what's at stake: the lives and dignity of our most vulnerable neighbors.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Dr. Jackson (00:24):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctors' rusty,
dusty scrapbook.
Well, today I'm delighted tohave online Matt Clark.
Dr Matt Clark, a very goodfriend of mine from down in the
North Augusta area.
Dr Clark, welcome to More ThanMedicine.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Thank you, robert, it's great to be with you again.
Dr. Jackson (00:48):
Well, the topic for today is a pro-life topic, and
first thing I want you to do istell my listeners a little bit
about yourself and about theorganization that you represent.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Robert, I'm the Executive Director of Personhood
South Carolina.
We've been seeking to endabortion in South Carolina for
over a decade now.
I'm a medical doctor, I'm anallergist, I'm board certified
in pediatrics and in allergy andI'm also recently growing in
functional medicine learning.
(01:20):
But the big story here is thefocus for your listeners on
ending abortion.
And I'm also a pastor and so,as a Christian, I want to love
my neighbors as myself, andthat's really that simple
scripture is what got me movingto try to love my neighbors in
the womb as myself.
Dr. Jackson (01:41):
Amen, brother, I hear that.
I hear that Now there have beensome very interesting
developments in the pro-lifearena in the last month or so,
some in South Carolina and someon the federal level.
How about bring my listeners upto date on what's happened in
South Carolina and on thefederal level?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, good news is that when McMaster signed that
executive order that excludedabortion providers from getting
Medicaid money back in July of18, he did a good thing and the
Supreme Court recently upheldthat, and so now other states
are starting to do the samething Arkansas, missouri, texas
(02:25):
and others.
So that's really good thatstates now have the authority to
exclude abortion providers fromMedicaid participation.
That's big news.
Dr. Jackson (02:35):
For the first time in a long time, South Carolina
is in the lead in something very, very good.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I agree, governor McMaster does deserve
commendation for that.
Dr. Jackson (02:46):
And then what happened on the federal level?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
that's a little bit disheartening, yeah the Big,
beautiful Bill is a lot lessbeautiful.
It was supposed to be 10 yearsfor federal Medicaid defunding
for Planned Parenthood, but it'sonly one year.
So we're very disappointed bythat.
It's only one year.
So we're very disappointed bythat and, you know, disappointed
in general with PresidentTrump's weak position on the
(03:12):
pro-life question.
Dr. Jackson (03:14):
Yeah, because that will now have to be addressed
annually in the budget, right?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Correct.
Dr. Jackson (03:19):
Yeah.
So that battle has to be foughtevery year.
We can never let our guard down.
We can never let ourrepresentatives and senators off
the hook.
We constantly have to bebadgering them to stand up for
life, and you know this was anopportunity for them to defund
Planned Parenthood from federalmoney for 10 years.
(03:41):
But no, they let PlannedParenthood off the hook and only
defunded them for one year,which was a terrible
disappointment.
All right, well, let's leavethat, and here's the main thing
I wanted to talk to you abouttoday.
I saw a video of you making apresentation at the Capitol
building down in Columbia, thestate Capitol Building, and it
(04:05):
was a fascinating presentationand there was a handful of folks
present.
There were a few legislatorspresent and I just was
enthralled with the presentationthat you made and I just wanted
you to share that with mylistening audience.
I applaud you for yourpresentation.
(04:25):
I thought it was veryinsightful, and so I'm just
going to sit back and listenpolitely, and I really want you
to share your heart and sharewith my listeners the
presentation that you made therein Columbia, in the Capitol
Building, rotunda.
So, Dr Clark, wax eloquent.
Share your heart, be a blessingto my listeners.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Robert, I really appreciate you giving me the
opportunity to speak with yourlisteners, and you know wherever
they might be right now,whether they're driving in their
car or doing the dishes orsitting around the fireplace in
their sitting room with theirfamily.
I really hope that yourlisteners will be moved by the
reality.
(05:08):
We talk so much about abortionand it's easy to forget what's
going on, and the pro-lifeeffort is so terribly disjointed
and divided right now, and so Ibelieve that what I have to say
here is really important.
In the years that I've beenobserving what's going on in the
pro-life effort in SouthCarolina, I believe there's some
(05:30):
basic truth here that couldbring us together and cause us
to be a united force in ourstate.
So, first of all, we have toremember what abortion is.
We have to get this before ourminds and not let it loose.
It's an evil deed of darknessthat we must expose.
I think of William Wilberforce,that original abolitionist.
(05:52):
You know.
He looked into the belly ofthat slave ship and it changed
his life, robert.
He could not get over it, andwe need to have that same
experience.
What is abortion?
It is legalized murder of ourneighbors inside the womb, where
a criminal knowingly plans andmurders an innocent, defenseless
(06:12):
child.
This is what abortion is and wehave to keep this before our
eyes.
And we have to remember thatSatan loves death and hates God.
Satan is the most bloodthirstyGod-hater, the father of lies,
and he will work to distract usand attack us.
He'll say things like oh, it'sjust a fetus, it's just a blob
(06:33):
of cells, or bring up all sortsof political questions to
distract us from the reality.
But we need to remember thatthis murdered child, every
murdered child, is made by Godin his image and is precious to
our God, with intrinsic valuethat's been divinely bestowed,
and estimates are even up to10,000 some estimates we don't
(06:57):
really know of South Carolina.
Babies are murdered in the wombevery year, crushed,
dismembered or suctioned todeath in the clinic or poisoned
to death at home by theirmothers.
And then not only are theirlives not protected, but their
dignity is degradedsignificantly Because what
(07:19):
happens?
Their bodies are thrown in thetrash or flushed down the toilet
.
This is what's happening in ourstate.
I don't like to say these things, robert, but we need to have
this before our eyes and we needto remember we're going to face
resistance, because those whohate God, love death.
You know, robert, you and me,and I'm sure probably most of
your listeners, have beendelivered from Satan's grasp.
(07:40):
We trust in Christ, we followhim, but we all know those who
are still in the devil's grasp,and these folks are deceived.
They'll lie, they'll distract,they'll attack, and we just have
to remember that if we were notin Christ, we, like them, would
also love death.
So we have to be kind, we haveto stay focused and remember
(08:01):
that we fight against legalizedmurder of innocent children.
I hope that your listeners whoare hearing this right now are
feelingly alive.
That's how Wilberforcedescribed it.
Feelingly alive, that's howWilberforce described it.
I hope that we're feelinglyalive to the suffering and the
degradation of these littlebabies, our neighbors in the
womb, and that perhaps, throughlistening to this, some of your
(08:24):
listeners will be moved in waysthey've not before.
I'm talking to you right nowabout this, robert, because
we're fractured.
The pro-life world is fractured, and I want to proclaim a
biblical vision for victorythat's built on eternal,
unshakable principles, not uponshifting poles or whims of
fickle mankind, not upon theopinions of confused presidents
(08:48):
and not upon corrupted nationalplatforms.
Robert, our legislature isparalyzed right now.
They're doing nothing.
We've got a GOP supermajority.
We've got recent South Carolinaelection results.
We've got dobs Our electedofficials can't hide behind
federal tyranny as an excuse anylonger.
And we've got the SouthCarolina GOP platform, which is
(09:09):
still solidly pro-life andpro-dignity and I'm going to
open up what pro-dignity means.
Our platform says we believethat all human life has
intrinsic worth and supportvigorous legal protection at all
stages of life.
Robert, I hope that yourlisteners understand that the
heartbeat law is not enough.
Babies that do not have aheartbeat.
(09:30):
They are not protected.
And think about this In thecurrent law, an abortionist the
one who's doing this legalizedmurder.
If they break the law, what istheir punishment?
If they break the heartbeat law, their punishment is comparable
to that received by a burglaror a thief or an animal abuser,
(09:51):
and the mother gets totalimmunity, no matter what.
It's like she just took out thetrash.
And why is our legislatureparalyzed?
I believe that it's becausethey're treating this like a
political issue instead of amoral issue.
Wilberforce says.
Wilberforce is a great quote.
I love this quote.
Politics is not my principle andI'm not ashamed to say it.
(10:13):
There's a principle aboveeverything that is political.
And when I reflect on thecommand which says thou shalt do
no murder, believing theauthority to be from God.
How can I dare to set up anyreasonings of my own against it?
But we can't just point thefinger at our legislators,
robert.
The church shares the blamebecause we do not have a common
(10:35):
biblical vision for victory.
So we're demoralized andfragmented and the pulpits are
to blame and the pews are toblame.
We need to go to God's word andhear his voice and we're
divided.
We need biblical mission,method and manner.
We're divided on all threeright now in our state.
Robert, the scriptures wouldteach us that we need to protect
(10:57):
life and preserve the dignityof every child.
This is our mission Protect thelife and preserve the dignity
of every child.
Of course we're 100% pro-lifeProtect each and every child,
every single baby, boy and girl,from conception and without
exception.
So legalized murder would beprohibited, no matter what the
situation is.
(11:17):
It's never okay to murder aninnocent child.
But, robert, being 100%pro-life is not enough and that
may sound odd to some of yourlisteners, but it's true.
We have to also be 100%pro-dignity and preserve the
dignity of each and every child.
Now I'm talking about a childthat is slain in the womb.
We have to provide equal legalprotection for every single baby
(11:39):
, so that all parties to thecrime face legal consequences
just as if they had performedthe crime against a person
outside the womb.
The 14th Amendment says no stateshall deny to any person within
its jurisdiction the equalprotection of the law.
So this is each precious littleone made in God's image.
(12:00):
Think about it, robert.
Animals and plants have life,right, they're alive also.
But we, image bearers of God,are completely unique.
Our life and our dignity is setapart because we're made to
enjoy God, to love God and tolove one another.
Nothing else in creation islike us.
(12:20):
So the dignity, the humanity ofa murdered child must be
preserved.
Equal legal protection isrequired to preserve this
dignity.
Murder is a crime against animage bearer, not against a
piece of property or an animalor a tree, and the South
Carolina GOP platform agreeswith this, robert.
It says we believe the 14thAmendment's protection applies
(12:42):
to unborn children.
Unborn children should beclassified as legal persons, not
as legal property.
Now, robert, this needs to besaid.
South Carolina Citizens forLife is just dead wrong on this
question and they vehementlydisagree with equal legal
protection.
They say that the mother isalways, always a victim, no
(13:04):
matter what, and we justdisagree with them.
We're so thankful for the goodthings they've done through the
years, but, in love and inrespect towards them as our
brothers and sisters in Christ,we plead with them to reconsider
and we'd love to have anopportunity to talk about this,
have a public conversation aboutthis.
So we need to be both pro-lifeand pro-dignity, because partial
(13:28):
justice is not true justice andremember, true justice is equal
legal protection for every baby, beginning at conception,
without exception.
Robert, there's not just aproblem with mission, but
there's also a problem withmethod.
What is a biblical method?
We are to seek missionaccomplishment every single year
.
That means we're going to havea bill that would accomplish the
(13:51):
mission put forward everysingle year.
But it's okay for us to receiveprovidentially supplied gradual
gains if we don't get totalvictory.
Now, robert, it's critical.
Your listeners understand thisis not the same as the endless
defeatist incrementalism thatwe've been exposed to for
decades, where they never put anabolition bill forward.
(14:13):
They just want to regulate andregulate forever, which is
especially unacceptable nowunder Dobbs.
But also, robert, this is notthe rejection of all bills
containing any unjust language.
There's a movement in our stateright now, pushed by Equal
Protection, south Carolina, andthey claim that it's always
wrong to accept a bill thatcontains any unjust language.
(14:35):
And they have some biblicalfoundation for this.
Isaiah 10.1 says woe to thosewho decree unrighteous decrees.
Now we agree that we must callour legislators to establish
true justice now.
We tell them woe to you whodecree unrighteous decrees.
We warn them about not puttinginto law unrighteous decrees and
(14:58):
we want them to seek abolitionevery year.
But if necessary, robert, it'sokay to accept providentially
delivered gains, becauseProverbs 24, 11 says rescue
those who are being taken awayto death.
We rescue those we can.
If total victory is thwarted andagain, this is not the same
thing as making unjust decrees.
(15:18):
This is erasing and replacingprior unjust language.
It's erasing prior unjustdecrees.
So this is thwarting some ofthe evil.
That's been done before.
But we can't just do thisimmediately, at the beginning of
the effort, robert, I'm sureyou've seen this they all stand
up on day one and say we have toadd the exceptions because we
(15:41):
can't win without them.
No, we admit defeat of totalvictory only after a full effort
, going all the way through theprocess itself, and then when we
see we can't reach our goal.
If the language that's, therewill be an advancement With
grief, we can accept, but wehave to protest.
We have to protest it and wehave to promise that we're going
(16:04):
to come back in the future andfight for the best language and
we'll be grateful for our gainsthat we've made, but we'll also
express grief for the babiesleft behind.
And again, this is not the samething as the endless defeatist
incrementalism.
It's not retreatist, it's notcowardly compromise.
This is biblical wisdom and Ithink that our movement would be
(16:25):
so much more together if EqualProtection South Carolina could
see this and embrace this andget this out to their followers
as well.
I mean, I love those guys.
I've prayed with them, I'vetalked with them, I know them.
You know Personhood SouthCarolina.
Our board went to their banquet.
We love what they're doing, butwe think they're wrong when it
(16:46):
comes to this issue of methodand so, similarly to what I said
about Citizens for Life in loveand respect and Christ towards
my brothers and sisters at EqualProtection South Carolina, we
ask them to stop and reconsider.
I think our movement would beso much more powerful and so
much more unified if we couldsee that happen.
Finally, robert, we need to havea biblical manner.
(17:07):
We need to be like Jesus.
Brother, I was so guilty ofthis when I got into this, that
cage stage, just being reallyungracious towards people.
We need to be like Jesus, fullof grace and truth, just like
our Lord, unifying even if we'restill in disagreement, like
equal protection and citizensfor life and personhood and
(17:27):
anybody else.
If we want to end abortion, weshould be able to work together
even in the midst of ourdisagreement.
We need to be gracious andhumble servants, but we also
need to be courageous warriorsand we need to be like Jesus,
full of grace and truth,learning how to lay aside,
taking things personally, neverbeing belligerent or rude and
(17:49):
not caring at all about who getsthe credit, just wanting the
name of the Lord Jesus to beglorified, that he would
increase and we would decrease.
And you know, in our warmth andour Christ-likeness, robert,
that we could be likeWilberforce, who would warm the
hearts even of his opponents.
You know, even his politicalopponents applauded the day of
(18:15):
political victory.
I love this quote from one ofhis constituents who wrote this
letter to him.
His constituent said I never sawyou but once, but that day you
won my heart and every honestheart in the country, in the
county.
I never felt the power ofeloquence until that day.
The contrast of your addressand the mellow tone of your
voice with the bellowing,screaming attempts at speaking
and some others, was mostwonderful.
(18:36):
You breathed energy and vigorinto the desponding souls of the
timid and sent us home with joyand delight.
That's who we need to be,robert, in this fight is
individuals that are even ourgreatest foes in the battle
would find their hearts warmedaround us.
So, robert, abortion islegalized murder we have to
(18:57):
remember this, and ourlegislature is paralyzed is
legalized murder we have toremember this and our
legislature is paralyzed.
But we share the blame and wejust need to repent of our sins
and cry out to God for his mercyand press on in unity together.
And I am so hopeful that thismessage can get out and we can
see our state united behind abiblical vision for victory and
we can really see ourlegislators get on board and
(19:20):
that God would just move Robertand that we'd see major activity
and victory.
Dr. Jackson (19:27):
Oh man, oh man, I hear you, my brother, and I'm in
full agreement with everythingthat you've said.
My heart is stirred and I canpromise you that I've been
praying and will be praying, andI can promise you that I've
been praying and will be praying.
In fact, brother Matt and Ipray on Thursdays early in the
morning about this whole mattertogether, and have been praying
(19:48):
together for several years now.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yep.
Dr. Jackson (19:50):
And it's a delight, it's a delight to pray with you
, it's a delight to put my hearttogether with you about this
whole issue and I want you toknow I really appreciate your
fervor and your passion aboutthis and your insight.
I appreciate the message thatyou've just shared with us.
I want you to know I'm going toencourage my listeners to
(20:12):
download this message and I'mgoing to ask you to take it and
pass it around.
Share it with your friends,with your pastors, with your
pro-life friends andconstituents, because I think
this message really needs to getout there.
There are a lot of folks thatneed to hear this, to ponder it
deeply, and there's a lot offolks out there that really need
(20:33):
to take action.
I've said it many times that ourlegislators don't see the light
until they feel the heat.
I've said it many times thatour legislators don't see the
light until they feel the heat.
And it's up to you and me toeducate them, to light a fire
under them but, more importantly, to pray for them.
It's only the Spirit of God whocan change the heart of our
(20:54):
legislators so that they havethe same passion that you and I
have about this issue.
And I'm telling you.
When our legislators have abroken and contrite spirit about
the murder of unborn citizens,you and I won't have to call
them on the phone or write thema letter.
(21:15):
They will charge the Hill andthey will pass the legislation
that makes abortion illegal inour state.
You won't have to prod them orpush them.
They will be the ones who makethings happen to preserve and
protect the life of our unbornbrothers and sisters in the womb
.
It'll be the Spirit of God wholights a fire in their heart,
(21:40):
but until then, it's ourresponsibility to educate them
and to pray for them.
Until then, you and I mustrepent, we must ask the Spirit
of God to light a fire in ourown hearts and we must learn to
work together, all of us asbrothers and sisters in Christ.
I believe that we all have asincere desire to bring an end
(22:01):
to abortion in South Carolina,to make it past history in our
state.
But we have to learn to worktogether, we have to learn to
pray together, and I believethat that day is going to come
soon in South Carolina.
Dr Matt Clark, I want you toknow I appreciate you and I
appreciate you coming on to MoreThan Medicine and sharing your
(22:24):
insights.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
It's a great joy to be with you again, Robert.
Dr. Jackson (22:28):
Thank you for your time.
You're listening to More ThanMedicine.
My guest today is Dr Matt Clark, my good friend, my good
pro-life friend, allergist andphysician down in North Augusta,
South Carolina.
Dr Clark, I hope you'll comeand be with me again sometime.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Me too, Robert.
I look forward to it.
Dr. Jackson (22:47):
All right, thank you, sir.
This is More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, till next week.
May the Lord bless you realgood.
Dr. Matt Clark (22:57):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry or to
schedule a speaking engagement,go to their Facebook page,
instagram or webpage atjacksonfamilyministrycom.
Also, don't forget to check outDr Jackson's books that are
available on Amazon.
The Family Doctor Speaks theTruth About Life in his first
(23:20):
book.
And the Family Doctor Speaksthe Truth About Life in his
first book.
And the Family Doctor Speaksthe Truth About Seed Planting.
Equipping Believers forEvangelism is his second.
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Dr. Jackson (00:24):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctors' rusty,
dusty scrapbook.
Well, today I'm delighted tohave online Matt Clark.
Dr Matt Clark, a very goodfriend of mine from down in the
North Augusta area.
Dr Clark, welcome to More ThanMedicine.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
Thank you, robert, it's great to be with you again.
Dr. Jackson (00:48):
Well, the topic for today is a pro-life topic, and
first thing I want you to do istell my listeners a little bit
about yourself and about theorganization that you represent.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
Robert, I'm the Executive Director of Personhood
South Carolina.
We've been seeking to endabortion in South Carolina for
over a decade now.
I'm a medical doctor, I'm anallergist, I'm board certified
in pediatrics and in allergy andI'm also recently growing in
functional medicine learning.
(01:20):
But the big story here is thefocus for your listeners on
ending abortion.
And I'm also a pastor and so,as a Christian, I want to love
my neighbors as myself, andthat's really that simple
scripture is what got me movingto try to love my neighbors in
the womb as myself.
Dr. Jackson (01:41):
Amen, brother, I hear that.
I hear that Now there have beensome very interesting
developments in the pro-lifearena in the last month or so,
some in South Carolina and someon the federal level.
How about bring my listeners upto date on what's happened in
South Carolina and on thefederal level?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, good news is that when McMaster signed that
executive order that excludedabortion providers from getting
Medicaid money back in July of18, he did a good thing and the
Supreme Court recently upheldthat, and so now other states
are starting to do the samething Arkansas, missouri, texas
(02:25):
and others.
So that's really good thatstates now have the authority to
exclude abortion providers fromMedicaid participation.
That's big news.
Dr. Jackson (02:35):
For the first time in a long time, South Carolina
is in the lead in something very, very good.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I agree, governor McMaster does deserve
commendation for that.
Dr. Jackson (02:46):
And then what happened on the federal level?
Speaker 1 (02:48):
that's a little bit disheartening, yeah the Big,
beautiful Bill is a lot lessbeautiful.
It was supposed to be 10 yearsfor federal Medicaid defunding
for Planned Parenthood, but it'sonly one year.
So we're very disappointed bythat.
It's only one year.
So we're very disappointed bythat and, you know, disappointed
in general with PresidentTrump's weak position on the
(03:12):
pro-life question.
Dr. Jackson (03:14):
Yeah, because that will now have to be addressed
annually in the budget, right?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Correct.
Dr. Jackson (03:19):
Yeah.
So that battle has to be foughtevery year.
We can never let our guard down.
We can never let ourrepresentatives and senators off
the hook.
We constantly have to bebadgering them to stand up for
life, and you know this was anopportunity for them to defund
Planned Parenthood from federalmoney for 10 years.
(03:41):
But no, they let PlannedParenthood off the hook and only
defunded them for one year,which was a terrible
disappointment.
All right, well, let's leavethat, and here's the main thing
I wanted to talk to you abouttoday.
I saw a video of you making apresentation at the Capitol
building down in Columbia, thestate Capitol Building, and it
(04:05):
was a fascinating presentationand there was a handful of folks
present.
There were a few legislatorspresent and I just was
enthralled with the presentationthat you made and I just wanted
you to share that with mylistening audience.
I applaud you for yourpresentation.
(04:25):
I thought it was veryinsightful, and so I'm just
going to sit back and listenpolitely, and I really want you
to share your heart and sharewith my listeners the
presentation that you made therein Columbia, in the Capitol
Building, rotunda.
So, Dr Clark, wax eloquent.
Share your heart, be a blessingto my listeners.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Robert, I really appreciate you giving me the
opportunity to speak with yourlisteners, and you know wherever
they might be right now,whether they're driving in their
car or doing the dishes orsitting around the fireplace in
their sitting room with theirfamily.
I really hope that yourlisteners will be moved by the
reality.
(05:08):
We talk so much about abortionand it's easy to forget what's
going on, and the pro-lifeeffort is so terribly disjointed
and divided right now, and so Ibelieve that what I have to say
here is really important.
In the years that I've beenobserving what's going on in the
pro-life effort in SouthCarolina, I believe there's some
(05:30):
basic truth here that couldbring us together and cause us
to be a united force in ourstate.
So, first of all, we have toremember what abortion is.
We have to get this before ourminds and not let it loose.
It's an evil deed of darknessthat we must expose.
I think of William Wilberforce,that original abolitionist.
(05:52):
You know.
He looked into the belly ofthat slave ship and it changed
his life, robert.
He could not get over it, andwe need to have that same
experience.
What is abortion?
It is legalized murder of ourneighbors inside the womb, where
a criminal knowingly plans andmurders an innocent, defenseless
(06:12):
child.
This is what abortion is and wehave to keep this before our
eyes.
And we have to remember thatSatan loves death and hates God.
Satan is the most bloodthirstyGod-hater, the father of lies,
and he will work to distract usand attack us.
He'll say things like oh, it'sjust a fetus, it's just a blob
(06:33):
of cells, or bring up all sortsof political questions to
distract us from the reality.
But we need to remember thatthis murdered child, every
murdered child, is made by Godin his image and is precious to
our God, with intrinsic valuethat's been divinely bestowed,
and estimates are even up to10,000 some estimates we don't
(06:57):
really know of South Carolina.
Babies are murdered in the wombevery year, crushed,
dismembered or suctioned todeath in the clinic or poisoned
to death at home by theirmothers.
And then not only are theirlives not protected, but their
dignity is degradedsignificantly Because what
(07:19):
happens?
Their bodies are thrown in thetrash or flushed down the toilet
.
This is what's happening in ourstate.
I don't like to say these things, robert, but we need to have
this before our eyes and we needto remember we're going to face
resistance, because those whohate God, love death.
You know, robert, you and me,and I'm sure probably most of
your listeners, have beendelivered from Satan's grasp.
(07:40):
We trust in Christ, we followhim, but we all know those who
are still in the devil's grasp,and these folks are deceived.
They'll lie, they'll distract,they'll attack, and we just have
to remember that if we were notin Christ, we, like them, would
also love death.
So we have to be kind, we haveto stay focused and remember
(08:01):
that we fight against legalizedmurder of innocent children.
I hope that your listeners whoare hearing this right now are
feelingly alive.
That's how Wilberforcedescribed it.
Feelingly alive, that's howWilberforce described it.
I hope that we're feelinglyalive to the suffering and the
degradation of these littlebabies, our neighbors in the
womb, and that perhaps, throughlistening to this, some of your
(08:24):
listeners will be moved in waysthey've not before.
I'm talking to you right nowabout this, robert, because
we're fractured.
The pro-life world is fractured, and I want to proclaim a
biblical vision for victorythat's built on eternal,
unshakable principles, not uponshifting poles or whims of
fickle mankind, not upon theopinions of confused presidents
(08:48):
and not upon corrupted nationalplatforms.
Robert, our legislature isparalyzed right now.
They're doing nothing.
We've got a GOP supermajority.
We've got recent South Carolinaelection results.
We've got dobs Our electedofficials can't hide behind
federal tyranny as an excuse anylonger.
And we've got the SouthCarolina GOP platform, which is
(09:09):
still solidly pro-life andpro-dignity and I'm going to
open up what pro-dignity means.
Our platform says we believethat all human life has
intrinsic worth and supportvigorous legal protection at all
stages of life.
Robert, I hope that yourlisteners understand that the
heartbeat law is not enough.
Babies that do not have aheartbeat.
(09:30):
They are not protected.
And think about this In thecurrent law, an abortionist the
one who's doing this legalizedmurder.
If they break the law, what istheir punishment?
If they break the heartbeat law, their punishment is comparable
to that received by a burglaror a thief or an animal abuser,
(09:51):
and the mother gets totalimmunity, no matter what.
It's like she just took out thetrash.
And why is our legislatureparalyzed?
I believe that it's becausethey're treating this like a
political issue instead of amoral issue.
Wilberforce says.
Wilberforce is a great quote.
I love this quote.
Politics is not my principle andI'm not ashamed to say it.
(10:13):
There's a principle aboveeverything that is political.
And when I reflect on thecommand which says thou shalt do
no murder, believing theauthority to be from God.
How can I dare to set up anyreasonings of my own against it?
But we can't just point thefinger at our legislators,
robert.
The church shares the blamebecause we do not have a common
(10:35):
biblical vision for victory.
So we're demoralized andfragmented and the pulpits are
to blame and the pews are toblame.
We need to go to God's word andhear his voice and we're
divided.
We need biblical mission,method and manner.
We're divided on all threeright now in our state.
Robert, the scriptures wouldteach us that we need to protect
(10:57):
life and preserve the dignityof every child.
This is our mission Protect thelife and preserve the dignity
of every child.
Of course we're 100% pro-lifeProtect each and every child,
every single baby, boy and girl,from conception and without
exception.
So legalized murder would beprohibited, no matter what the
situation is.
(11:17):
It's never okay to murder aninnocent child.
But, robert, being 100%pro-life is not enough and that
may sound odd to some of yourlisteners, but it's true.
We have to also be 100%pro-dignity and preserve the
dignity of each and every child.
Now I'm talking about a childthat is slain in the womb.
We have to provide equal legalprotection for every single baby
(11:39):
, so that all parties to thecrime face legal consequences
just as if they had performedthe crime against a person
outside the womb.
The 14th Amendment says no stateshall deny to any person within
its jurisdiction the equalprotection of the law.
So this is each precious littleone made in God's image.
(12:00):
Think about it, robert.
Animals and plants have life,right, they're alive also.
But we, image bearers of God,are completely unique.
Our life and our dignity is setapart because we're made to
enjoy God, to love God and tolove one another.
Nothing else in creation islike us.
(12:20):
So the dignity, the humanity ofa murdered child must be
preserved.
Equal legal protection isrequired to preserve this
dignity.
Murder is a crime against animage bearer, not against a
piece of property or an animalor a tree, and the South
Carolina GOP platform agreeswith this, robert.
It says we believe the 14thAmendment's protection applies
(12:42):
to unborn children.
Unborn children should beclassified as legal persons, not
as legal property.
Now, robert, this needs to besaid.
South Carolina Citizens forLife is just dead wrong on this
question and they vehementlydisagree with equal legal
protection.
They say that the mother isalways, always a victim, no
(13:04):
matter what, and we justdisagree with them.
We're so thankful for the goodthings they've done through the
years, but, in love and inrespect towards them as our
brothers and sisters in Christ,we plead with them to reconsider
and we'd love to have anopportunity to talk about this,
have a public conversation aboutthis.
So we need to be both pro-lifeand pro-dignity, because partial
(13:28):
justice is not true justice andremember, true justice is equal
legal protection for every baby, beginning at conception,
without exception.
Robert, there's not just aproblem with mission, but
there's also a problem withmethod.
What is a biblical method?
We are to seek missionaccomplishment every single year
.
That means we're going to havea bill that would accomplish the
(13:51):
mission put forward everysingle year.
But it's okay for us to receiveprovidentially supplied gradual
gains if we don't get totalvictory.
Now, robert, it's critical.
Your listeners understand thisis not the same as the endless
defeatist incrementalism thatwe've been exposed to for
decades, where they never put anabolition bill forward.
(14:13):
They just want to regulate andregulate forever, which is
especially unacceptable nowunder Dobbs.
But also, robert, this is notthe rejection of all bills
containing any unjust language.
There's a movement in our stateright now, pushed by Equal
Protection, south Carolina, andthey claim that it's always
wrong to accept a bill thatcontains any unjust language.
(14:35):
And they have some biblicalfoundation for this.
Isaiah 10.1 says woe to thosewho decree unrighteous decrees.
Now we agree that we must callour legislators to establish
true justice now.
We tell them woe to you whodecree unrighteous decrees.
We warn them about not puttinginto law unrighteous decrees and
(14:58):
we want them to seek abolitionevery year.
But if necessary, robert, it'sokay to accept providentially
delivered gains, becauseProverbs 24, 11 says rescue
those who are being taken awayto death.
We rescue those we can.
If total victory is thwarted andagain, this is not the same
thing as making unjust decrees.
(15:18):
This is erasing and replacingprior unjust language.
It's erasing prior unjustdecrees.
So this is thwarting some ofthe evil.
That's been done before.
But we can't just do thisimmediately, at the beginning of
the effort, robert, I'm sureyou've seen this they all stand
up on day one and say we have toadd the exceptions because we
(15:41):
can't win without them.
No, we admit defeat of totalvictory only after a full effort
, going all the way through theprocess itself, and then when we
see we can't reach our goal.
If the language that's, therewill be an advancement With
grief, we can accept, but wehave to protest.
We have to protest it and wehave to promise that we're going
(16:04):
to come back in the future andfight for the best language and
we'll be grateful for our gainsthat we've made, but we'll also
express grief for the babiesleft behind.
And again, this is not the samething as the endless defeatist
incrementalism.
It's not retreatist, it's notcowardly compromise.
This is biblical wisdom and Ithink that our movement would be
(16:25):
so much more together if EqualProtection South Carolina could
see this and embrace this andget this out to their followers
as well.
I mean, I love those guys.
I've prayed with them, I'vetalked with them, I know them.
You know Personhood SouthCarolina.
Our board went to their banquet.
We love what they're doing, butwe think they're wrong when it
(16:46):
comes to this issue of methodand so, similarly to what I said
about Citizens for Life in loveand respect and Christ towards
my brothers and sisters at EqualProtection South Carolina, we
ask them to stop and reconsider.
I think our movement would beso much more powerful and so
much more unified if we couldsee that happen.
Finally, robert, we need to havea biblical manner.
(17:07):
We need to be like Jesus.
Brother, I was so guilty ofthis when I got into this, that
cage stage, just being reallyungracious towards people.
We need to be like Jesus, fullof grace and truth, just like
our Lord, unifying even if we'restill in disagreement, like
equal protection and citizensfor life and personhood and
(17:27):
anybody else.
If we want to end abortion, weshould be able to work together
even in the midst of ourdisagreement.
We need to be gracious andhumble servants, but we also
need to be courageous warriorsand we need to be like Jesus,
full of grace and truth,learning how to lay aside,
taking things personally, neverbeing belligerent or rude and
(17:49):
not caring at all about who getsthe credit, just wanting the
name of the Lord Jesus to beglorified, that he would
increase and we would decrease.
And you know, in our warmth andour Christ-likeness, robert,
that we could be likeWilberforce, who would warm the
hearts even of his opponents.
You know, even his politicalopponents applauded the day of
(18:15):
political victory.
I love this quote from one ofhis constituents who wrote this
letter to him.
His constituent said I never sawyou but once, but that day you
won my heart and every honestheart in the country, in the
county.
I never felt the power ofeloquence until that day.
The contrast of your addressand the mellow tone of your
voice with the bellowing,screaming attempts at speaking
and some others, was mostwonderful.
(18:36):
You breathed energy and vigorinto the desponding souls of the
timid and sent us home with joyand delight.
That's who we need to be,robert, in this fight is
individuals that are even ourgreatest foes in the battle
would find their hearts warmedaround us.
So, robert, abortion islegalized murder we have to
(18:57):
remember this, and ourlegislature is paralyzed is
legalized murder we have toremember this and our
legislature is paralyzed.
But we share the blame and wejust need to repent of our sins
and cry out to God for his mercyand press on in unity together.
And I am so hopeful that thismessage can get out and we can
see our state united behind abiblical vision for victory and
we can really see ourlegislators get on board and
(19:20):
that God would just move Robertand that we'd see major activity
and victory.
Dr. Jackson (19:27):
Oh man, oh man, I hear you, my brother, and I'm in
full agreement with everythingthat you've said.
My heart is stirred and I canpromise you that I've been
praying and will be praying, andI can promise you that I've
been praying and will be praying.
In fact, brother Matt and Ipray on Thursdays early in the
morning about this whole mattertogether, and have been praying
(19:48):
together for several years now.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yep.
Dr. Jackson (19:50):
And it's a delight, it's a delight to pray with you
, it's a delight to put my hearttogether with you about this
whole issue and I want you toknow I really appreciate your
fervor and your passion aboutthis and your insight.
I appreciate the message thatyou've just shared with us.
I want you to know I'm going toencourage my listeners to
(20:12):
download this message and I'mgoing to ask you to take it and
pass it around.
Share it with your friends,with your pastors, with your
pro-life friends andconstituents, because I think
this message really needs to getout there.
There are a lot of folks thatneed to hear this, to ponder it
deeply, and there's a lot offolks out there that really need
(20:33):
to take action.
I've said it many times that ourlegislators don't see the light
until they feel the heat.
I've said it many times thatour legislators don't see the
light until they feel the heat.
And it's up to you and me toeducate them, to light a fire
under them but, more importantly, to pray for them.
It's only the Spirit of God whocan change the heart of our
(20:54):
legislators so that they havethe same passion that you and I
have about this issue.
And I'm telling you.
When our legislators have abroken and contrite spirit about
the murder of unborn citizens,you and I won't have to call
them on the phone or write thema letter.
(21:15):
They will charge the Hill andthey will pass the legislation
that makes abortion illegal inour state.
You won't have to prod them orpush them.
They will be the ones who makethings happen to preserve and
protect the life of our unbornbrothers and sisters in the womb
.
It'll be the Spirit of God wholights a fire in their heart,
(21:40):
but until then, it's ourresponsibility to educate them
and to pray for them.
Until then, you and I mustrepent, we must ask the Spirit
of God to light a fire in ourown hearts and we must learn to
work together, all of us asbrothers and sisters in Christ.
I believe that we all have asincere desire to bring an end
(22:01):
to abortion in South Carolina,to make it past history in our
state.
But we have to learn to worktogether, we have to learn to
pray together, and I believethat that day is going to come
soon in South Carolina.
Dr Matt Clark, I want you toknow I appreciate you and I
appreciate you coming on to MoreThan Medicine and sharing your
(22:24):
insights.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
It's a great joy to be with you again, Robert.
Dr. Jackson (22:28):
Thank you for your time.
You're listening to More ThanMedicine.
My guest today is Dr Matt Clark, my good friend, my good
pro-life friend, allergist andphysician down in North Augusta,
South Carolina.
Dr Clark, I hope you'll comeand be with me again sometime.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
Me too, Robert.
I look forward to it.
Dr. Jackson (22:47):
All right, thank you, sir.
This is More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, till next week.
May the Lord bless you realgood.
Dr. Matt Clark (22:57):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry or to
schedule a speaking engagement,go to their Facebook page,
instagram or webpage atjacksonfamilyministrycom.
Also, don't forget to check outDr Jackson's books that are
available on Amazon.
The Family Doctor Speaks theTruth About Life in his first
(23:20):
book.
And the Family Doctor Speaksthe Truth About Life in his
first book.
And the Family Doctor Speaksthe Truth About Seed Planting.
Equipping Believers forEvangelism is his second.
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