June 28, 2025 • 25 mins
What happens when our votes disappear into a technological black box? South Carolina Election Integrity advocate Laura Scharr pulls back the curtain on America's troubling voting systems while offering a surprisingly simple solution.
The startling truth about our elections emerges quickly: most Americans have no understanding of how their votes are actually counted. Our voting systems operate on technical standards from 2005 - predating the first iPhone - and create what Scharr calls a "weapon of vote destruction." She vividly compares it to receiving a bank statement showing only your final balance with no transaction history. Would you accept that level of opacity with your money? Then why accept it with your vote?
Following her recent Gold Standard Election Expo in Dallas, Scharr expertly walks us through her comprehensive four-phase approach to election reform: voter registration, voter validation, tabulation, and reporting. Each phase must satisfy four essential pillars: accessibility, security, transparency, and verifiability. Her team's simple yet revolutionary "Gold Standard Tally Method" relies on just three elements - people, paper, and pens.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when examining President Trump's March 25th executive order, which prohibits barcode/QR code tabulation and requires upgrading to new voting system standards by September 2024. With primaries approaching and certification timelines tight, Scharr explains why we might see hand-counted federal races in 2024 - creating a nationwide demonstration of what transparent elections could look like.
Critics claim hand counting would take too long or prove too error-prone, but Scharr's team has debunked these myths through extensive testing. With properly sized precincts of 1,500 voters, counts can be completed by midnight. A Rasmussen poll revealed that 52% of likely voters across all demographics would volunteer to count ballots in their local areas.
Whether you're deeply concerned about election integrity or simply curious about how your vote gets counted, this eye-opening conversation reveals why election reform must precede all other political priorities. As Scharr powerfully states, "Our ballots shall be cast in secret, but they shall not be counted in secret."
Ready to take action? Visit scsafeelections.org to download the Gold Standard white paper and contact your representatives to demand transparent, verifiable elections that restore trust in our democratic process.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Robert Jackson (00:22):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctor's rusty,
dusty scrapbook.
Well, I'm privileged today tohave online with me Ms Laura
Scharr from South Carolina.
Safe Elections, ms Laura,welcome to More Than Medicine.
Laura Schaar (00:41):
Well, thank you for having me, Dr Jackson.
Robert Jackson (00:43):
It's a privilege than medicine.
Well, thank you for having me,dr Jackson.
It's a privilege, it's myprivilege.
I'm delighted to have you onceagain Now.
Ms Laura, I understand that youwere recently at a very special
event out, I think, in Texas,is that correct?
Laura Schaar (00:56):
That is correct.
It was in Dallas, texas, and itwas something that I had been
thinking about for a very longtime with my team, the Gold
Standard Election Team, which isa team of people across the
United States that I have beenthinking about for a very long
time with my team, the GoldStandard Election Team, which is
a team of people across theUnited States that I collaborate
with, and we just decided to dothis.
So we planned the entire eventand we had it in Dallas and it
(01:17):
was called the Gold StandardElection Expo.
Robert Jackson (01:21):
My goodness Now, who sponsored this event.
Laura Schaar (01:23):
We did Our team.
So we put a lot of money andenergy and effort into a really
full day and we had over 100attendees and the whole purpose
of the event was to demonstratethe work that we had all done as
grassroots election advocates,election reform advocates.
(01:46):
So really work together,innovate, collaborate,
demonstrate and educate.
And it was a fun-filled day.
We were there from eight in themorning until about, you know,
six at night and we got a lotdone, as you can imagine.
Robert Jackson (02:03):
Well now, who were the folks that were there
to see you demonstrate the goldstandard election integrity
process?
Laura Schaar (02:13):
Well, we had, obviously other grassroots
election experts.
We had some election officials.
We even had some candidates forSecretary of State there, one
gentleman from Ohio.
We had lawyers who had beenworking on behalf of election
integrity grassroots advocatesand so it was a nice mix of
(02:39):
people.
The whole uniform issue herewas that we all cared
passionately about reforming ourelections, and that's one of
the things that made itdifferent.
It wasn't about a bunch ofinfluencers there.
We didn't have a lot of youknow big names.
It was just for the people whowere working this problem for
(03:00):
the last several years, and sopeople really appreciated that.
They liked that atmosphere.
It wasn't open to the public,it was invite only, and it made
for a really nice atmosphere andit was just a lovely event.
Robert Jackson (03:14):
So why was all this so important?
Tell me, tell my listeners, whyan event like this is so
important.
Laura Schaar (03:20):
Well, because, as you know, we have a new
administration with PresidentTrump, and he did sign an
executive order on March 25th ofthis year, and so we thought it
was really important, becauseso many people talk about the
election reform but they don'treally know what it looks like,
right?
So we figured we have to showthem.
(03:41):
If we show them what it meansfor true reform, they'll get it.
So what we did was we talkedabout, first of all, what is the
gold standard for elections andwhat it means, and so we
defined that.
And then what we did was we hadand I'll explain that just
briefly there are four steps inour election process, and we
(04:05):
need to reform all of them.
It's not just a one littleteeny piece that we have to fix.
We need to fix the wholeprocess, and that means voter
registration, voter validation,which is you know, when you
validate, who you are, where youlive, that you can in fact vote
, you're eligible to vote, andthen we have the tabulation of
(04:27):
the vote, the marking andcounting, and then, finally, the
reporting of the results.
So each one of those phases ofthe election needs to be
optimized for four differentvariables, and we call them the
four pillars.
So we want elections to beaccessible, we want them to be
(04:47):
secure, we want them to betransparent and we want them to
be verifiable.
And we wrote our gold standardteam the four of us across the
United States we wrote a whitepaper and this is on my site,
scsafelectionsorg, as well asgoldstandardelectionscom that
(05:08):
details exactly how to reachthat gold standard.
Now, one of the reasons we goteverybody together was we said,
okay, everybody doesn'tunderstand that third phase,
that tabulation phase, and howwe would do it.
They have questions, they haveconcerns, so let's show them how
we do it.
And we had a speed dating ofsorts for these election
(05:30):
processes.
So we had these four differentmethods in four different rooms,
and we actually held this inthe museum that Glenn Beck has
curated this beautiful museum,it's the American Voyage
Experience and each differentroom had a different method for
hand-counting hand-marked paperballots.
And so the attendees we splitthem up into four groups and
(05:57):
they each could go into therooms for about a half an hour
and watch these methods beingdemonstrated, and then
afterwards they could askquestions and we had some panels
after that.
So that was the whole gist ofthe meeting.
Robert Jackson (06:10):
So now, what was the after-presentation opinion
of the people who attended andobserved the gold standard in
action?
Laura Schaar (06:23):
They were very enthused.
They were like we can actuallydo this and we took a poll of
them afterwards and all four ofthe methods they felt could work
.
Now I'm partial to ours becauseI feel like it's very simple
and also two of the methods werevery Texas-specific, so they
(06:43):
required more paperwork,potentially more people, and so
ours is just a verystripped-down method and we call
our method the gold standardtally method.
It is super simple.
It is people, paper and pens.
Robert Jackson (07:03):
People paper and pens.
People paper and pens Yep andit's transferable to any state.
Laura Schaar (07:09):
Yes, it's so easy.
Now, certain states haveparticular rules so you have to
be careful and make sure it'smodified for your particular
state's rules.
But this pretty much can bedone anywhere and it will be
easy to incorporate into the lawif you needed to, or to just do
it if we had to, because wemight be faced to do this given
(07:32):
the president's executive orderof March 25th.
Robert Jackson (07:36):
Now what exactly did that executive order say
Okay.
Laura Schaar (07:40):
Well, it's very, very interesting.
So what that executive orderdoes is it is focused aating
that the states have access tosystems that will verify
citizenship.
There's going to be increasedenforcement of that.
(08:11):
There's also part of theexecutive order deals with voter
rolls.
The Department of HomelandSecurity is going to review the
voter maintenance activities ofthe states, is going to review
the voter maintenance activitiesof the states, and they're also
making available special datato the states so that they can
do a better job of cleaning upthe voter rolls.
(08:32):
Now, on top of that, you have acouple things that I think are
going to make the next fewmonths very interesting, and
there's already lawsuits flying.
Very interesting, and there'salready lawsuits flying.
So, number one the executiveorder says that the voting
systems that are utilized fornow remember, this executive
order is for federal elections,but it says that because, just
(08:57):
so people know, the statesconstitutionally determine the
location, the manner and thetime of their elections.
But this is for federalelections and one of the first
stipulations is that no votingsystem can use a ballot with a
barcode or a QR code fortabulation.
(09:18):
That's interesting.
Robert Jackson (09:21):
And that's part of the executive order.
Laura Schaar (09:23):
A hundred percent, and that's part of the
executive order A hundredpercent.
And so right now, if you go tovote in person and you go in,
you're going to be making yourselections on an express vote
machine from ES&S that will puta barcode on your ballot and
then you take that ballot andyou scan it into a tabulator.
(09:44):
So that express vote machine isnot going to be able to work.
Currently it's not programmedto be able to work without a
barcode.
Robert Jackson (09:56):
I got you.
Laura Schaar (09:57):
So I don't know if we'll even be able to use the
express vote machines based onthis executive order for the
primary next year.
So that's pretty pivotal.
Robert Jackson (10:06):
I got you Now.
So that means for the federalprimaries they're going to have
to use paper and pen.
Laura Schaar (10:13):
Well, they're going to at least have to use
hand marked paper ballots.
So the next thing is what aboutthe tabulators?
Because we could hand mark ourballots, just like you would for
an absentee ballot right, andthen put that into the tabulator
.
But here's where the executiveorder also puts some additional
stipulations.
He states that you mustrecertify within 180 days of the
(10:37):
order, which would be aboutSeptember I think it's September
21st.
Is the cutoff, september 21stof 25, september, I think it's
September 21st, is the cutoff,september 21st of 25, to new
voluntary voting systemguidelines 2.0.
And so he's saying you've beenoperating under 1.0.
We want you to take thesestandards to 2.0, which was
(11:00):
actually developed in 21.
We are now operating understandards from 2005.
Most people don't understandthat.
Robert Jackson (11:06):
Oh, I did know that, I knew it.
Laura Schaar (11:07):
Yeah, dvsg1, which is what we are certified
towards and all ES&S andDominion systems are, is from
2005.
And we are still adhering tothat.
Now the new system standardscame out, the 2.0, in 21.
And he's saying not only do Iwant you to adhere to those, I
want you to update those, reviewand update those, rescind all
(11:31):
previous certifications.
And so it takes a while to testthese systems.
So we believe that they're notgoing to be ready in time for
the primaries, which are only ayear away, less than a year away
in some cases.
And so what happens then?
That is the big question mark.
Robert Jackson (11:52):
I got you.
I got you Well.
So those tabulators are goingto have to be upgraded to the
new standards, and you thinkthere's not enough time for
those tabulators to be upgradedto the new standards?
And you think there's notenough time for those tabulators
to be upgraded?
Laura Schaar (12:07):
exactly, and we just purchased new tabulators to
the end of I know it was over20, I think it was 26 million to
30 million dollars, and so arewe even going to be able to use
those, or are?
Is it going to be a situationand I'm just spitballing here is
it going to be a situation andI'm just spitballing here is it
going to be a situation wherethey say well, we are the state,
(12:28):
we have control, we will countour state and local elections
with the machines, and, if we'reforced to, we'll hand count the
federal elections, which, to behonest, that wouldn't be the
worst thing in the world either,because we're probably only
going to have a couple.
Each state is only going tohave a couple federal elections.
You might have a senator and acongressman that are up, and you
(12:51):
have to vote in each precinctfor just two federal races.
Robert Jackson (12:57):
That'd be good because it'll prove to our
electorate that we can actuallyhand count and do it well and
provide trust and transparencystatewide.
That will give confidence tothe people that we can actually
do this.
Laura Schaar (13:12):
That's right.
That's right.
It could be a good pilot testto get that done.
So that's kind of where we are.
It's a very interestingsituation, which is why we felt
the importance that we had toget everybody there documented.
The Department of Justice wehad members of the Department of
Justice asking us to providethem because they actually,
while we were there thatSaturday, they got news that
(13:35):
this was going on and they werelike we're hearing great, great
stuff about this event you'rehaving Send us some information
about your methods and howyou're counting.
And so we actually spent theday prior doing a big videotape
documenting our systems andalmost doing like a little
commercial or infomercial or forlack of a better word about
(13:56):
hand counting, and so we're inthe process of editing that and
we just got the raw footage in.
So we're going to try to getthat to the Department of
Justice because it's soimportant.
If you see it, you believe itand you see how easy it is.
Robert Jackson (14:08):
Well now, what exactly is the pushback from our
legislators?
That's a great question whywould?
Anybody not want to do paperand pen.
Laura Schaar (14:17):
That's a great question.
So the objections, the typicalobjections, are number one oh,
it's going to take too long.
Well, we have been able todemonstrate through our multiple
tests that we've done, that wecan count.
We can finish counting in aboutfour hours, so we can get done
by midnight.
But the key thing there is weneed to keep our precincts small
(14:40):
.
They must be kept to about1,500 qualified electors and we
want to make sure that thecounting is done at the precinct
only.
We do not want it done at thecounty.
In fact we would even recommendthat the absentee ballots get
sorted and sent to the precinctfor counting there.
So we can totally do this bymidnight if we keep the
(15:01):
precincts small.
The other objection is well,humans make errors right, but we
have developed a system thatmakes reconciliation super easy,
very fast, and in fact, whenyou think about it, we use hand
counting in our audits toconfirm the machine accuracy.
So really it is the goldstandard.
(15:21):
The other objection is oh, we'renot going to find enough
workers.
But Rasmussen did a poll Ibelieve it was back in November,
right around the time of theelection, and they asked likely
voters if they'd be willing tovolunteer not even get paid to
volunteer to count ballots attheir local neighborhood area,
(15:44):
and 52% of likely voters saidyes, and this was across all
demographics and all parties.
And now the other objection iswell, it's hard to find polling
locations, and if we make it afederal holiday, then more
locations will be availablebecause the schools will be out,
and so I think if we have astate or a federal holiday for
(16:04):
our elections, that issue getsminimized.
Robert Jackson (16:08):
Exactly, exactly , my goodness.
Well, now let me ask youanother question, then what are
your recommendations to attainthis gold standard?
Laura Schaar (16:21):
Well, for the gold standard to count, or just the
gold standard in general, ingeneral, not just for counting.
So for the registration piece,we recommend that everybody gets
re-registered.
We need to clean the slatesbecause our voter rolls are so
dirty across the United Statesand that if people are deceased
or they move, we immediatelyremove them.
(16:43):
Right now it can take upwardsof six to eight years for people
to get off those rolls if theydie or if they move.
Robert Jackson (16:50):
So even if they have evidence, that only makes
sense.
Laura Schaar (16:53):
No, it doesn't.
So that would be onerecommendation.
And we need to do registrationin person with a photo ID and
proof of citizenship.
We need to do registration inperson with a photo ID and proof
of citizenship.
The other thing with theregistration is that voter rolls
are free of charge for thecitizens to do their own audits
and that the maintenance is downat the county level.
So that's for that phase.
That would be therecommendation there.
(17:13):
To reach the gold standard forvalidation, we need to make sure
that we are using paper pollbooks.
Right now we do thoseelectronic poll books.
They're not certified andthere's a multitude of issues.
And, by the way, they'reconnected to the Internet and
we're finding blips and we'renot able to reconcile it to the
(17:34):
actual voters that often come inthe door.
Robert Jackson (17:36):
And they created a lot of headaches at our last
election.
Those electronic oh did you?
Oh yeah, and there was peoplecalling the county constantly
because people couldn't findtheir name in that electronic
book.
Laura Schaar (17:50):
Yeah, that's not good, and part of it is they
instantly freeze the rolls 30days prior, but then they
instantly activate them if theyshow up, and that's partly
because the people aren't comingin to keep active.
They need to stay active andyou do that by showing up at the
primaries.
The primaries are the mostimportant election in South
Carolina.
Robert Jackson (18:09):
Oh yeah, oh yeah .
Laura Schaar (18:10):
So people need to show up and that's like a big
commercial for please show up atthe primaries, get yourself
educated about the people whoare running and show up, because
that is the critical electionin South Carolina.
For the vote tabulation, therecommendation is the gold
standard tally method and it'sone day of voting with minimal
(18:33):
absentee balloting.
Make it a federal holiday.
We also don't want early voting, so that goes away.
Hand-marked, hand-counted paperballots at the precinct, like we
talked about, and we do thatwith people paper pens with the
gold standard method, and I'mgoing to be actually visiting a
couple counties to demonstratethat method so that people can
(18:55):
do it with me and they can seehow easy it is, super easy,
super quick.
And they can see how easy it is, super easy, super quick.
And then, finally, reporting.
We believe that the reportingneeds to be publicly posted at
the precinct, like it is now,but also the reports need to go
from the precinct to the county,the county to the state.
Bipartisan protocols, nothird-party contractors like we
(19:18):
have now, and basically alldocumentation goes to the
citizens and they can observe.
The key thing is, people inSouth Carolina need to be able
to observe every aspect of theprocess.
They need to be able to see theballots, because right now they
won't even let us see theballots, and the point is that
our ballots shall be cast insecret, but they shall not be
(19:41):
counted in secret.
Robert Jackson (19:42):
That's in our South Carolina Constitution Open
and transparent.
Laura Schaar (19:46):
Amen.
Robert Jackson (19:47):
So that's, the gold standard.
Laura Schaar (19:49):
Just in a nutshell , but there's more in our white
paper.
Robert Jackson (19:53):
Now, if people want to see this come to pass
people paper pen and they wantto persuade our legislators to
move forward on this, what doyou think they need to do?
How do they make the peoplemake this happen?
Laura Schaar (20:08):
Yeah, we need their help.
We absolutely need it.
It's going to take effort fromthe bottom up and also from the
top down.
Now President Trump is doingwhat he can with the executive
order, but people have to demandit.
So I would suggest that peoplecontact their state legislators
and their election officials.
So talk to your county or yourstate election official, contact
(20:29):
your representative and yoursenator and tell them that you
want a voting system by thepeople, for the people, one that
uses paper poll books andhand-counted, hand-marked paper
ballots, with one day of voting,and demand that the citizens
are able to observe the electionprocess and also the election
(20:50):
materials once the ballots arecast, because once they're cast,
they're separated from thevoter and they're completely
anonymous, and the importantthing is to spread the news with
friends, family.
We need more people involved inthis effort, and everything goes
back to elections.
So I know there are hot topicsthat people care about.
(21:12):
Some people are all aboutabortion.
Some people are, you know,minimizing it and getting rid of
it.
Some people are about the kidsand trying to keep, you know,
the CRT out of the schools.
Some people are, you know,everybody has their own pet
issues, but the bottom line iswe're not going to fix any of
that until we fix our elections,and we're going to lose our
constitutional republic if wecannot get rid of the electronic
(21:34):
voting system, which I callweapon of vote.
It's weapons of votedestruction.
Robert Jackson (21:40):
Yeah, you're right about that.
You're exactly right about that.
Well now, does South Carolina'ssafe elections need any
financial support?
Laura Schaar (21:48):
No, I've been kind of keeping it going for the
last several years and you knowwe do our best.
I don't really—this is mypassion, and, other than the
lawsuit which we had to try toget the cast vote records, which
was very expensive we just doour own thing.
So I really just am askingpeople to support by spreading
(22:09):
the word, talking to therepresentatives, getting
involved, going to our website,scsafelectionsorg, and learning
more and volunteering in theirparticular county.
There's lots of things that youcan do to help out.
We have some great people allacross the state just some
friendly, amazing patriots thatI call my friends and my family,
(22:30):
and that's what I would suggest.
Download the Gold Standardwhite paper, read it, send that
to your representatives, tellthem this is the kind of
solution that you would like tosee.
We right now have no idea howour vote is counted.
It's a big black box.
Robert Jackson (22:47):
Yeah, it is.
Laura Schaar (22:48):
If you had a bank that gave you a statement at the
end of the month and it justhad the total amount with no
itemized detail, you would notstand that.
Robert Jackson (22:58):
You would not allow that you wouldn't do
business with them, but that'sexactly what we're doing, yeah
exactly Well, ms Laura, I'm justpleased as punch with the
information that you provide,with the detail that you provide
.
I appreciate your passion forthis, and we in South Carolina
have to do better.
Laura Schaar (23:19):
We do, we're one of the worst states Dr.
Robert Jackson (23:21):
Jackson, we are, we are, I know we are, and our
legislators push back on us likewe're a bunch of idiots and we
don't know what we're talkingabout.
But we have to do better andI'm calling on my listeners to
educate themselves about thevoting machines that I think.
I'm convinced they're stealingelections across our nation and
(23:44):
in South Carolina and we need topush for paper ballots.
And we need to push for a muchimproved tabulating process, and
Ms Laura has laid it out for us.
She's done the homework for usand it's just up for us to
educate ourselves and we need toeducate our legislators and we
need to demand a better process,a paper-pen-counting process,
(24:12):
and it's up to us.
We're the people, and thelegislators answer to us and we
cannot allow them off the hook.
So there we are.
All right, You're listening toMore Than Medicine.
My guest today is Laura Scharrwith South Carolina Safe
Elections.
We want our elections to besafe, trustworthy and
(24:33):
transparent, and she's shown ushow to make that happen.
Ms Laura, thank you for beingon More Than Medicine.
I really appreciate you.
Laura Schaar (24:42):
Well, thank you for having me, dr Jackson,
always a pleasure.
Robert Jackson (24:44):
All right.
Thank you, ma'am.
I'll have you back againsometime in the future.
You're listening to More ThanMedicine.
I'm your host, Dr RobertJackson.
We'll be back again next week.
Until then, may the Lord blessyou real good.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry, dr
Jackson's books, or to schedulea speaking engagement, go to
their Facebook page, instagramor their webpage at
jacksonfamilyministrycom.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Production at
bobslone.
com.
Welcome to More Than Medicine, where Jesus is more
than enough for the ills thatplague our culture and our
country.
Hosted by author and physician,dr Robert Jackson, and his wife
Carlotta and daughter HannahMiller.
So listen up, because thedoctor is in.
Robert Jackson (00:22):
Welcome to More Than Medicine.
I'm your host, dr RobertJackson, bringing to you
biblical insights and storiesfrom the country doctor's rusty,
dusty scrapbook.
Well, I'm privileged today tohave online with me Ms Laura
Scharr from South Carolina.
Safe Elections, ms Laura,welcome to More Than Medicine.
Laura Schaar (00:41):
Well, thank you for having me, Dr Jackson.
Robert Jackson (00:43):
It's a privilege than medicine.
Well, thank you for having me,dr Jackson.
It's a privilege, it's myprivilege.
I'm delighted to have you onceagain Now.
Ms Laura, I understand that youwere recently at a very special
event out, I think, in Texas,is that correct?
Laura Schaar (00:56):
That is correct.
It was in Dallas, texas, and itwas something that I had been
thinking about for a very longtime with my team, the Gold
Standard Election Team, which isa team of people across the
United States that I have beenthinking about for a very long
time with my team, the GoldStandard Election Team, which is
a team of people across theUnited States that I collaborate
with, and we just decided to dothis.
So we planned the entire eventand we had it in Dallas and it
(01:17):
was called the Gold StandardElection Expo.
Robert Jackson (01:21):
My goodness Now, who sponsored this event.
Laura Schaar (01:23):
We did Our team.
So we put a lot of money andenergy and effort into a really
full day and we had over 100attendees and the whole purpose
of the event was to demonstratethe work that we had all done as
grassroots election advocates,election reform advocates.
(01:46):
So really work together,innovate, collaborate,
demonstrate and educate.
And it was a fun-filled day.
We were there from eight in themorning until about, you know,
six at night and we got a lotdone, as you can imagine.
Robert Jackson (02:03):
Well now, who were the folks that were there
to see you demonstrate the goldstandard election integrity
process?
Laura Schaar (02:13):
Well, we had, obviously other grassroots
election experts.
We had some election officials.
We even had some candidates forSecretary of State there, one
gentleman from Ohio.
We had lawyers who had beenworking on behalf of election
integrity grassroots advocatesand so it was a nice mix of
(02:39):
people.
The whole uniform issue herewas that we all cared
passionately about reforming ourelections, and that's one of
the things that made itdifferent.
It wasn't about a bunch ofinfluencers there.
We didn't have a lot of youknow big names.
It was just for the people whowere working this problem for
(03:00):
the last several years, and sopeople really appreciated that.
They liked that atmosphere.
It wasn't open to the public,it was invite only, and it made
for a really nice atmosphere andit was just a lovely event.
Robert Jackson (03:14):
So why was all this so important?
Tell me, tell my listeners, whyan event like this is so
important.
Laura Schaar (03:20):
Well, because, as you know, we have a new
administration with PresidentTrump, and he did sign an
executive order on March 25th ofthis year, and so we thought it
was really important, becauseso many people talk about the
election reform but they don'treally know what it looks like,
right?
So we figured we have to showthem.
(03:41):
If we show them what it meansfor true reform, they'll get it.
So what we did was we talkedabout, first of all, what is the
gold standard for elections andwhat it means, and so we
defined that.
And then what we did was we hadand I'll explain that just
briefly there are four steps inour election process, and we
(04:05):
need to reform all of them.
It's not just a one littleteeny piece that we have to fix.
We need to fix the wholeprocess, and that means voter
registration, voter validation,which is you know, when you
validate, who you are, where youlive, that you can in fact vote
, you're eligible to vote, andthen we have the tabulation of
(04:27):
the vote, the marking andcounting, and then, finally, the
reporting of the results.
So each one of those phases ofthe election needs to be
optimized for four differentvariables, and we call them the
four pillars.
So we want elections to beaccessible, we want them to be
(04:47):
secure, we want them to betransparent and we want them to
be verifiable.
And we wrote our gold standardteam the four of us across the
United States we wrote a whitepaper and this is on my site,
scsafelectionsorg, as well asgoldstandardelectionscom that
(05:08):
details exactly how to reachthat gold standard.
Now, one of the reasons we goteverybody together was we said,
okay, everybody doesn'tunderstand that third phase,
that tabulation phase, and howwe would do it.
They have questions, they haveconcerns, so let's show them how
we do it.
And we had a speed dating ofsorts for these election
(05:30):
processes.
So we had these four differentmethods in four different rooms,
and we actually held this inthe museum that Glenn Beck has
curated this beautiful museum,it's the American Voyage
Experience and each differentroom had a different method for
hand-counting hand-marked paperballots.
And so the attendees we splitthem up into four groups and
(05:57):
they each could go into therooms for about a half an hour
and watch these methods beingdemonstrated, and then
afterwards they could askquestions and we had some panels
after that.
So that was the whole gist ofthe meeting.
Robert Jackson (06:10):
So now, what was the after-presentation opinion
of the people who attended andobserved the gold standard in
action?
Laura Schaar (06:23):
They were very enthused.
They were like we can actuallydo this and we took a poll of
them afterwards and all four ofthe methods they felt could work
.
Now I'm partial to ours becauseI feel like it's very simple
and also two of the methods werevery Texas-specific, so they
(06:43):
required more paperwork,potentially more people, and so
ours is just a verystripped-down method and we call
our method the gold standardtally method.
It is super simple.
It is people, paper and pens.
Robert Jackson (07:03):
People paper and pens.
People paper and pens Yep andit's transferable to any state.
Laura Schaar (07:09):
Yes, it's so easy.
Now, certain states haveparticular rules so you have to
be careful and make sure it'smodified for your particular
state's rules.
But this pretty much can bedone anywhere and it will be
easy to incorporate into the lawif you needed to, or to just do
it if we had to, because wemight be faced to do this given
(07:32):
the president's executive orderof March 25th.
Robert Jackson (07:36):
Now what exactly did that executive order say
Okay.
Laura Schaar (07:40):
Well, it's very, very interesting.
So what that executive orderdoes is it is focused aating
that the states have access tosystems that will verify
citizenship.
There's going to be increasedenforcement of that.
(08:11):
There's also part of theexecutive order deals with voter
rolls.
The Department of HomelandSecurity is going to review the
voter maintenance activities ofthe states, is going to review
the voter maintenance activitiesof the states, and they're also
making available special datato the states so that they can
do a better job of cleaning upthe voter rolls.
(08:32):
Now, on top of that, you have acouple things that I think are
going to make the next fewmonths very interesting, and
there's already lawsuits flying.
Very interesting, and there'salready lawsuits flying.
So, number one the executiveorder says that the voting
systems that are utilized fornow remember, this executive
order is for federal elections,but it says that because, just
(08:57):
so people know, the statesconstitutionally determine the
location, the manner and thetime of their elections.
But this is for federalelections and one of the first
stipulations is that no votingsystem can use a ballot with a
barcode or a QR code fortabulation.
(09:18):
That's interesting.
Robert Jackson (09:21):
And that's part of the executive order.
Laura Schaar (09:23):
A hundred percent, and that's part of the
executive order A hundredpercent.
And so right now, if you go tovote in person and you go in,
you're going to be making yourselections on an express vote
machine from ES&S that will puta barcode on your ballot and
then you take that ballot andyou scan it into a tabulator.
(09:44):
So that express vote machine isnot going to be able to work.
Currently it's not programmedto be able to work without a
barcode.
Robert Jackson (09:56):
I got you.
Laura Schaar (09:57):
So I don't know if we'll even be able to use the
express vote machines based onthis executive order for the
primary next year.
So that's pretty pivotal.
Robert Jackson (10:06):
I got you Now.
So that means for the federalprimaries they're going to have
to use paper and pen.
Laura Schaar (10:13):
Well, they're going to at least have to use
hand marked paper ballots.
So the next thing is what aboutthe tabulators?
Because we could hand mark ourballots, just like you would for
an absentee ballot right, andthen put that into the tabulator
.
But here's where the executiveorder also puts some additional
stipulations.
He states that you mustrecertify within 180 days of the
(10:37):
order, which would be aboutSeptember I think it's September
21st.
Is the cutoff, september 21stof 25, september, I think it's
September 21st, is the cutoff,september 21st of 25, to new
voluntary voting systemguidelines 2.0.
And so he's saying you've beenoperating under 1.0.
We want you to take thesestandards to 2.0, which was
(11:00):
actually developed in 21.
We are now operating understandards from 2005.
Most people don't understandthat.
Robert Jackson (11:06):
Oh, I did know that, I knew it.
Laura Schaar (11:07):
Yeah, dvsg1, which is what we are certified
towards and all ES&S andDominion systems are, is from
2005.
And we are still adhering tothat.
Now the new system standardscame out, the 2.0, in 21.
And he's saying not only do Iwant you to adhere to those, I
want you to update those, reviewand update those, rescind all
(11:31):
previous certifications.
And so it takes a while to testthese systems.
So we believe that they're notgoing to be ready in time for
the primaries, which are only ayear away, less than a year away
in some cases.
And so what happens then?
That is the big question mark.
Robert Jackson (11:52):
I got you.
I got you Well.
So those tabulators are goingto have to be upgraded to the
new standards, and you thinkthere's not enough time for
those tabulators to be upgradedto the new standards?
And you think there's notenough time for those tabulators
to be upgraded?
Laura Schaar (12:07):
exactly, and we just purchased new tabulators to
the end of I know it was over20, I think it was 26 million to
30 million dollars, and so arewe even going to be able to use
those, or are?
Is it going to be a situationand I'm just spitballing here is
it going to be a situation andI'm just spitballing here is it
going to be a situation wherethey say well, we are the state,
(12:28):
we have control, we will countour state and local elections
with the machines, and, if we'reforced to, we'll hand count the
federal elections, which, to behonest, that wouldn't be the
worst thing in the world either,because we're probably only
going to have a couple.
Each state is only going tohave a couple federal elections.
You might have a senator and acongressman that are up, and you
(12:51):
have to vote in each precinctfor just two federal races.
Robert Jackson (12:57):
That'd be good because it'll prove to our
electorate that we can actuallyhand count and do it well and
provide trust and transparencystatewide.
That will give confidence tothe people that we can actually
do this.
Laura Schaar (13:12):
That's right.
That's right.
It could be a good pilot testto get that done.
So that's kind of where we are.
It's a very interestingsituation, which is why we felt
the importance that we had toget everybody there documented.
The Department of Justice wehad members of the Department of
Justice asking us to providethem because they actually,
while we were there thatSaturday, they got news that
(13:35):
this was going on and they werelike we're hearing great, great
stuff about this event you'rehaving Send us some information
about your methods and howyou're counting.
And so we actually spent theday prior doing a big videotape
documenting our systems andalmost doing like a little
commercial or infomercial or forlack of a better word about
(13:56):
hand counting, and so we're inthe process of editing that and
we just got the raw footage in.
So we're going to try to getthat to the Department of
Justice because it's soimportant.
If you see it, you believe itand you see how easy it is.
Robert Jackson (14:08):
Well now, what exactly is the pushback from our
legislators?
That's a great question whywould?
Anybody not want to do paperand pen.
Laura Schaar (14:17):
That's a great question.
So the objections, the typicalobjections, are number one oh,
it's going to take too long.
Well, we have been able todemonstrate through our multiple
tests that we've done, that wecan count.
We can finish counting in aboutfour hours, so we can get done
by midnight.
But the key thing there is weneed to keep our precincts small
(14:40):
.
They must be kept to about1,500 qualified electors and we
want to make sure that thecounting is done at the precinct
only.
We do not want it done at thecounty.
In fact we would even recommendthat the absentee ballots get
sorted and sent to the precinctfor counting there.
So we can totally do this bymidnight if we keep the
(15:01):
precincts small.
The other objection is well,humans make errors right, but we
have developed a system thatmakes reconciliation super easy,
very fast, and in fact, whenyou think about it, we use hand
counting in our audits toconfirm the machine accuracy.
So really it is the goldstandard.
(15:21):
The other objection is oh, we'renot going to find enough
workers.
But Rasmussen did a poll Ibelieve it was back in November,
right around the time of theelection, and they asked likely
voters if they'd be willing tovolunteer not even get paid to
volunteer to count ballots attheir local neighborhood area,
(15:44):
and 52% of likely voters saidyes, and this was across all
demographics and all parties.
And now the other objection iswell, it's hard to find polling
locations, and if we make it afederal holiday, then more
locations will be availablebecause the schools will be out,
and so I think if we have astate or a federal holiday for
(16:04):
our elections, that issue getsminimized.
Robert Jackson (16:08):
Exactly, exactly , my goodness.
Well, now let me ask youanother question, then what are
your recommendations to attainthis gold standard?
Laura Schaar (16:21):
Well, for the gold standard to count, or just the
gold standard in general, ingeneral, not just for counting.
So for the registration piece,we recommend that everybody gets
re-registered.
We need to clean the slatesbecause our voter rolls are so
dirty across the United Statesand that if people are deceased
or they move, we immediatelyremove them.
(16:43):
Right now it can take upwardsof six to eight years for people
to get off those rolls if theydie or if they move.
Robert Jackson (16:50):
So even if they have evidence, that only makes
sense.
Laura Schaar (16:53):
No, it doesn't.
So that would be onerecommendation.
And we need to do registrationin person with a photo ID and
proof of citizenship.
We need to do registration inperson with a photo ID and proof
of citizenship.
The other thing with theregistration is that voter rolls
are free of charge for thecitizens to do their own audits
and that the maintenance is downat the county level.
So that's for that phase.
That would be therecommendation there.
(17:13):
To reach the gold standard forvalidation, we need to make sure
that we are using paper pollbooks.
Right now we do thoseelectronic poll books.
They're not certified andthere's a multitude of issues.
And, by the way, they'reconnected to the Internet and
we're finding blips and we'renot able to reconcile it to the
(17:34):
actual voters that often come inthe door.
Robert Jackson (17:36):
And they created a lot of headaches at our last
election.
Those electronic oh did you?
Oh yeah, and there was peoplecalling the county constantly
because people couldn't findtheir name in that electronic
book.
Laura Schaar (17:50):
Yeah, that's not good, and part of it is they
instantly freeze the rolls 30days prior, but then they
instantly activate them if theyshow up, and that's partly
because the people aren't comingin to keep active.
They need to stay active andyou do that by showing up at the
primaries.
The primaries are the mostimportant election in South
Carolina.
Robert Jackson (18:09):
Oh yeah, oh yeah .
Laura Schaar (18:10):
So people need to show up and that's like a big
commercial for please show up atthe primaries, get yourself
educated about the people whoare running and show up, because
that is the critical electionin South Carolina.
For the vote tabulation, therecommendation is the gold
standard tally method and it'sone day of voting with minimal
(18:33):
absentee balloting.
Make it a federal holiday.
We also don't want early voting, so that goes away.
Hand-marked, hand-counted paperballots at the precinct, like we
talked about, and we do thatwith people paper pens with the
gold standard method, and I'mgoing to be actually visiting a
couple counties to demonstratethat method so that people can
(18:55):
do it with me and they can seehow easy it is, super easy,
super quick.
And they can see how easy it is, super easy, super quick.
And then, finally, reporting.
We believe that the reportingneeds to be publicly posted at
the precinct, like it is now,but also the reports need to go
from the precinct to the county,the county to the state.
Bipartisan protocols, nothird-party contractors like we
(19:18):
have now, and basically alldocumentation goes to the
citizens and they can observe.
The key thing is, people inSouth Carolina need to be able
to observe every aspect of theprocess.
They need to be able to see theballots, because right now they
won't even let us see theballots, and the point is that
our ballots shall be cast insecret, but they shall not be
(19:41):
counted in secret.
Robert Jackson (19:42):
That's in our South Carolina Constitution Open
and transparent.
Laura Schaar (19:46):
Amen.
Robert Jackson (19:47):
So that's, the gold standard.
Laura Schaar (19:49):
Just in a nutshell , but there's more in our white
paper.
Robert Jackson (19:53):
Now, if people want to see this come to pass
people paper pen and they wantto persuade our legislators to
move forward on this, what doyou think they need to do?
How do they make the peoplemake this happen?
Laura Schaar (20:08):
Yeah, we need their help.
We absolutely need it.
It's going to take effort fromthe bottom up and also from the
top down.
Now President Trump is doingwhat he can with the executive
order, but people have to demandit.
So I would suggest that peoplecontact their state legislators
and their election officials.
So talk to your county or yourstate election official, contact
(20:29):
your representative and yoursenator and tell them that you
want a voting system by thepeople, for the people, one that
uses paper poll books andhand-counted, hand-marked paper
ballots, with one day of voting,and demand that the citizens
are able to observe the electionprocess and also the election
(20:50):
materials once the ballots arecast, because once they're cast,
they're separated from thevoter and they're completely
anonymous, and the importantthing is to spread the news with
friends, family.
We need more people involved inthis effort, and everything goes
back to elections.
So I know there are hot topicsthat people care about.
(21:12):
Some people are all aboutabortion.
Some people are, you know,minimizing it and getting rid of
it.
Some people are about the kidsand trying to keep, you know,
the CRT out of the schools.
Some people are, you know,everybody has their own pet
issues, but the bottom line iswe're not going to fix any of
that until we fix our elections,and we're going to lose our
constitutional republic if wecannot get rid of the electronic
(21:34):
voting system, which I callweapon of vote.
It's weapons of votedestruction.
Robert Jackson (21:40):
Yeah, you're right about that.
You're exactly right about that.
Well now, does South Carolina'ssafe elections need any
financial support?
Laura Schaar (21:48):
No, I've been kind of keeping it going for the
last several years and you knowwe do our best.
I don't really—this is mypassion, and, other than the
lawsuit which we had to try toget the cast vote records, which
was very expensive we just doour own thing.
So I really just am askingpeople to support by spreading
(22:09):
the word, talking to therepresentatives, getting
involved, going to our website,scsafelectionsorg, and learning
more and volunteering in theirparticular county.
There's lots of things that youcan do to help out.
We have some great people allacross the state just some
friendly, amazing patriots thatI call my friends and my family,
(22:30):
and that's what I would suggest.
Download the Gold Standardwhite paper, read it, send that
to your representatives, tellthem this is the kind of
solution that you would like tosee.
We right now have no idea howour vote is counted.
It's a big black box.
Robert Jackson (22:47):
Yeah, it is.
Laura Schaar (22:48):
If you had a bank that gave you a statement at the
end of the month and it justhad the total amount with no
itemized detail, you would notstand that.
Robert Jackson (22:58):
You would not allow that you wouldn't do
business with them, but that'sexactly what we're doing, yeah
exactly Well, ms Laura, I'm justpleased as punch with the
information that you provide,with the detail that you provide
.
I appreciate your passion forthis, and we in South Carolina
have to do better.
Laura Schaar (23:19):
We do, we're one of the worst states Dr.
Robert Jackson (23:21):
Jackson, we are, we are, I know we are, and our
legislators push back on us likewe're a bunch of idiots and we
don't know what we're talkingabout.
But we have to do better andI'm calling on my listeners to
educate themselves about thevoting machines that I think.
I'm convinced they're stealingelections across our nation and
(23:44):
in South Carolina and we need topush for paper ballots.
And we need to push for a muchimproved tabulating process, and
Ms Laura has laid it out for us.
She's done the homework for usand it's just up for us to
educate ourselves and we need toeducate our legislators and we
need to demand a better process,a paper-pen-counting process,
(24:12):
and it's up to us.
We're the people, and thelegislators answer to us and we
cannot allow them off the hook.
So there we are.
All right, You're listening toMore Than Medicine.
My guest today is Laura Scharrwith South Carolina Safe
Elections.
We want our elections to besafe, trustworthy and
(24:33):
transparent, and she's shown ushow to make that happen.
Ms Laura, thank you for beingon More Than Medicine.
I really appreciate you.
Laura Schaar (24:42):
Well, thank you for having me, dr Jackson,
always a pleasure.
Robert Jackson (24:44):
All right.
Thank you, ma'am.
I'll have you back againsometime in the future.
You're listening to More ThanMedicine.
I'm your host, Dr RobertJackson.
We'll be back again next week.
Until then, may the Lord blessyou real good.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Thank you for listening to this edition of
More Than Medicine.
For more information about theJackson Family Ministry, dr
Jackson's books, or to schedulea speaking engagement, go to
their Facebook page, instagramor their webpage at
jacksonfamilyministrycom.
This podcast is produced by BobSlone Audio Production at
bobslone.
com.
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