March 11, 2025 • 14 mins
Are you running from God? The book of Jonah describes two distinct paths we often take. With insights from scripture and personal experiences, we discuss how both paths can shape our relationship with God and the importance of true, honest connection with Him. Whether you're a rule-follower or a rebel, this conversation will challenge you to reflect on how you might be running from God—intentionally or not—and how to find your way back.
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S1 (00:30):
My small group is talking about the Book of Jonah.
S2 (00:33):
That's a good one.
S1 (00:33):
We're reading through a Tim Keller book called Rediscovering Jonah. Okay.
S2 (00:38):
I didn't know Keller did a Jonah book.
S1 (00:40):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's Tim Keller. Now, you're kidding me.
S2 (00:42):
No, no, no. I believe you. He's great. I'm excited. Sorry.
I'm excited.
S1 (00:46):
No, it's really good so far. And in the first
chapter of this book, he talks about two different ways
we run from God. So a quick overview of the
book of Jonah and the story. Jonah is in Joppa.
God says, go to Nineveh. And he said, no. And
he went to Tarshish, which is the exact opposite way
(01:08):
of Nineveh, for 2500 miles. So this one map says
in the opposite direction.
S2 (01:13):
Now, why did he do that again? Like it was,
he didn't like Nineveh, right? Or something?
S1 (01:17):
Yeah. The Ninevites were a very violent people, so scared.
They were like beheading people and like, traipsing them around in, like,
the square. And they were happy about it. They were
proud of themselves. They were very scary people. And he's like,
so basically, God, what you're telling me is to go
get killed. That's what you're saying. And so he ran
the opposite direction.
S2 (01:36):
And it must have taken him a long time, because
ancient world, 2500 miles in the opposite direction.
S1 (01:41):
A long time.
S2 (01:42):
Is like weeks.
S1 (01:43):
Yeah.
S2 (01:44):
At least.
S1 (01:45):
At least.
S2 (01:46):
Wow. I didn't picture it that way.
S1 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S2 (01:50):
I thought it was a little bit shorter.
S1 (01:51):
Or, like, just like, a little bit out of the way.
S2 (01:53):
Like I'm running over here.
S1 (01:55):
He went towards the end of it, like, took a
right turn. No. Yeah. Opposite direction.
S2 (01:58):
Okay.
S1 (01:59):
So that happens in the first half. Whale happens. He
rediscovers God's like. Hello. I still want you to do
what I said. So then he makes his way back
to Nineveh. Okay. All all the way back to 2500
miles and then plus some to get to Nineveh. So
Tim Keller is talking about the two ways that we
run from God. And we see it in both. We
(02:20):
see both in Jonah. The first way is wickedness. We do.
We're like, I don't want anything to do with God,
so I'm just going to sin, be bad, be filled
with evil and vile things. And we see it in
Romans 129. It says their lives became full of every
kind of wickedness sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception,
malicious behavior, and gossip. They were backstabbers, haters of God, insolent,
(02:44):
proud and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning and
they are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand,
break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They
know God's justice requires that those who do these things
deserve to die. Yet they do them anyway. Worse yet,
they encourage others to do them too. So the first
way to run from God is you're just, you know,
(03:05):
I don't care about him. So I'm going to do
the opposite. I'm going to be wicked and evil, and
that's fine. So you're running from God.
S2 (03:11):
And they're going to invent new ways to sin, which
I found that part amusing. That's right. Like whatever didn't list,
they're going to make it up.
S1 (03:17):
So we see in sort Jonah doing that. He's running
to Tarshish. He's he's saying, no, I don't want anything
to do with what God is asking me to do.
Forget that guy. I'm doing what I want. The other
way is in Romans 217 through 25. You who call
yourselves Jews are relying on God's law, and you boast
about your special relationship with him. You know what he wants.
(03:39):
You know what is right because you've done you have
been taught his law. You're convinced that you are a
guide for the blind and a light for the people
who are lost in darkness. You think that you can
instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God,
for you are certain that God's law gives you the
complete knowledge and truth. So the second way we run
from God. Number one, opposite of him. Everything that is
against God you do opposite of that is we run
(04:02):
from God by acting like we know everything and we
just follow the law. We become moral and right and perfect.
So then we don't need God.
S3 (04:09):
I can do it myself, right?
S2 (04:12):
The person probably wouldn't say that.
S1 (04:14):
No, no, no, they think that they're doing the right thing. Yeah,
but what they're actually doing is hiding from God because
they go to church every week. They don't sin. So
they say they volunteer at church every day of the week. Day.
They set up church for Christmas. They follow all the laws.
S2 (04:33):
They pray real loud.
S1 (04:34):
They pray really loud at restaurants. They wake up at
6 a.m. and do their quiet time.
S2 (04:39):
Posted on Instagram, highlighting.
S1 (04:41):
They tell people about Jesus, they share the gospel on
the street.
S2 (04:45):
And those are all good things, by the way.
S1 (04:46):
But there are a lot of times what you're actually
doing is hiding from God with your good deeds now.
S2 (04:53):
But that person would tell you they're doing those things
to get closer to God.
S1 (04:58):
Yeah, but if you're just doing all those things just
to fill your time and not actually be in relationship
with God, you're not actually showing any of yourself to God.
You're just doing things.
S3 (05:09):
So could this person be like subconsciously saying, I'm afraid
to be with God or to know God?
S1 (05:15):
Oh yeah. I'm afraid to let myself be known by God.
S2 (05:18):
And see that one's the scarier one to me because
it's it's so subtle and sinister. It's like when someone's
totally rejecting God and going in the opposite direction. They
know what they're doing.
S1 (05:29):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
S2 (05:30):
But somebody could be doing all the religious things, thinking
they're doing the right thing, having no idea they're running
from God.
S3 (05:37):
And no one can call them out on it because
it's a little bit harder to pick up on what
they're doing.
S1 (05:40):
Right?
S2 (05:41):
Yes.
S1 (05:42):
Uh, Keller says we all know and acknowledge that we
can run away from God. But what Paul is saying
in these two Romans verses, what Paul is saying is
that it is possible to avoid God by becoming very
religious and moral people, because if you become very religious
and very moral, you don't need God. What? Why do
you need God if you don't do anything wrong? Why
do you need God if you're not daily, you know,
(06:04):
dying to yourself and showing yourself how wrong you are? Wow.
How opposite of God you are. All the ways that
you sin in your heart and your mind.
S2 (06:14):
Yeah, I see this, um, in this era of social media. Right?
Where there's people who are. They've just got it all
figured out. In fact, they they have their whole ministry.
Quote unquote, is based on destroying people that disagree with
them about their religious activity, their theology. They got it
all figured out.
S3 (06:35):
It's very ignorant to think that you've got it figured out,
that you've arrived after 2000 years of people struggling with
certain passages, or 2000 years of general consensus on this
or that, but you've got it figured out.
S2 (06:46):
It's like it's a spiritual arrogance that pervades this type
of person, right? They've never met a theological dilemma that
they can't solve.
S1 (06:55):
It's like, what's the answer to it? To the two
ways we run from God. Because I think there's times
in our life that we do both.
S3 (07:03):
What do you mean, what's the answer?
S1 (07:04):
Like, how do we find the middle of not just
doing everything right, but also not just turning towards wickedness? Gotcha.
S2 (07:13):
The easier turn is the person who is, you know,
doing the evil. They're making up new sins. That that
side of it that Paul was talking about. I think
that's the easier one to turn from. And we see
those dramatic testimonies all the time. It's where they finally
hit rock bottom. And they have to make a choice.
And they do. And they surrender. And they live powerful
(07:34):
lives of surrender. The other one is really hard. It's everywhere.
S1 (07:40):
I think we have to start first. Start by what
are ways that you've been running from God? In both ways.
It could be. Either way, you have to examine your
own life. What are ways you've been running from God
and turning towards wickedness and evil things and just go,
continuing to go on sinning. Or what are ways that
you're hiding from God? If we put it a different way,
(08:02):
what are the ways that you're hiding from God? By
just doing all the right things and knowing all the
right things?
S2 (08:08):
Yeah, I mean, I, I did the more sinister one
for most of my life. I, I grew up in
a Christian home. So I in order to do the
right things, I specifically avoided doing all the overtly naughty
things that Paul was listing. Yeah. not to say it
wasn't sinning, but I was like, well, this is what
(08:29):
I have to do. So I did that and then I.
For me, it was knowledge. It was like, if I
could just gain enough knowledge that would equal relationship with Christ.
S1 (08:39):
Yeah. And that's what the Roman two passage was exactly
calling out. He literally said, you think that you have
all this knowledge, and so it makes you better and
it makes you closer to God.
S2 (08:48):
And I would have read that.
S1 (08:50):
I'm like, yeah.
S2 (08:50):
And my intense reading, I would have been like, yeah,
those Jewish guys, look at those guys. What are they doing? Losers.
They were. It was modern day. It'd be different. You know,
me and my friends, we got it.
S3 (09:00):
I think we have a lot, of lot of modern
day Pharisees in the church. A lot.
S2 (09:06):
I would venture to guess it's going to sound horrible.
So yell at me. Get ready. Take a deep breath.
I over half of people I encounter in churches and such.
S1 (09:20):
Could be.
S3 (09:20):
It's possible.
S2 (09:22):
Like they are doing all the things and they're pretty
proud of it. I mean, they're not going to say
that out loud, but they would accept the award if
you gave it to them.
S3 (09:29):
Yeah, the hard part is they don't know what they're doing.
They don't realize that they've made themselves God. And I
think that's just part of human nature. And something a
lot of us are going to struggle with is, I mean,
the story of God is so good that it almost
feels like it can't be true. We don't have to
do anything. And that's especially hard to grasp in our
American culture of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. But like, no,
(09:50):
we don't have to do anything. Like, yes, God wants
us to obey his statutes and commands, but we don't
have to do anything, and there's nothing we can do.
S2 (09:58):
And we're doing it because we're afraid either he's going
to be mad at us if we don't, or that
if we don't do it, it's not going to get done.
Like he needs Jesus needs me to do in the
nursery this week. He needs it.
S3 (10:12):
If I don't do it, who will?
S2 (10:14):
And then you get, like, frustrated at all those losers
who aren't volunteering like you.
S1 (10:19):
Right.
S4 (10:20):
And a lot of times the churches will enhance that
by they have a desperate need for workers in the
children's church and the nursery. So they'll they'll mention that frequently.
And then you pat yourself on the back and be like, well, yeah,
I'm doing my part.
S2 (10:37):
I am a super Christian. Now, to what extent did
you experience this, Lauren? I mean, you're a pastor's kid.
S1 (10:45):
Yeah.
S2 (10:45):
And you're. You went to Moody Bible Institute.
S1 (10:48):
I know how to follow the rules real good.
S2 (10:52):
Because you. You're a pastor's kid. That's right. Was it
more the pastor's kid part or the moody part that
made you the rule follower?
S1 (10:59):
Um, I think it's also just a personality bent. I
am just a rule follower. Just in all things in life.
Not just my Christian life.
S2 (11:06):
Yeah. Like, show me the box and I'm going to
live in it.
S1 (11:08):
Exactly. Right. Just tell me what to do, and I'll
do it.
S2 (11:11):
Yeah.
S1 (11:12):
Um, so I think it's just growing up in church
and you're taught in church what to do, what not
to do, and how to do it. And then do
the same thing at Christian school. You get in trouble
if you don't do those exact things. And then going
to Bible school, it's the same thing. Um, I think
that made me after school, after college, when I was
(11:34):
out on my own to be like, let me, like,
test my wings here. Let me actually run the opposite direction.
Let me do the other way of what everyone has
been telling me to do for my entire life, and
they've not provided me the ways of, hey, you actually
have to like, have a relationship, not just follow all
these rules. So I just did the exact opposite, and
I turned toward the wickedness and finding new ways to
sin and do all of that. And it took a
(11:58):
like rock bottom moments, probably multiple of them, for God
to say hello. There's a way in between.
S2 (12:06):
You ran to Tarshish, basically.
S1 (12:07):
Yes. Yes, exactly. Because Jonah did, in the first half
of the book runs to Tarshish, Tarshish, and does his
little thing. He's like, I'm running away from God. I'm
turning my back. I don't want anything to do with him.
Then he comes back, he's humbled, and he actually goes
to Nineveh. But then he's like, ah, but these people
are like really bad. I'm way better than them. So
I don't want to tell them the gospel, because why
(12:29):
would I? I'm better than them.
S2 (12:32):
Yeah. And see, your experience is one that, uh, almost
says that, you know, people hate deconstruction. That was a
big thing for, like, a whole year in the Christian faith.
Still is. Yeah. People are like, it's scary. Don't let
your kids deconstruct. But there's a layer at which all
of us, at some level, have to deconstruct from one
of those two ways to run from God, because I
think it's pretty universal that we do. One of the two, yes,
(12:54):
if not both. Yes, I think not until you break
it down.
S1 (12:57):
Right. I think everyone has moments of doing both.
S2 (13:00):
And yet there's people that want to scream at me
like you never deconstruct. You can't. Like if you do,
you'll leave the faith.
S1 (13:08):
Not true.
S2 (13:10):
It's almost needed. That's controversial. I mean, I'm Ron Eastwood,
Ron eastwood@moody.edu.
S1 (13:16):
I think you believe all the things that you believe
as a child. You have to start like deconstructing that
in Anything. So you want like kids who believe in
Santa Claus to still believe in Santa Claus when they're 28? No.
You have to start pulling away layers of things that
you believed as a child that may not actually be true,
or that you interpreted in incorrectly as a child, or
(13:39):
what people told you. Adults told you and they thought
we were being helpful. It didn't quite compute in a
child's mind, and you have to change it.
S2 (13:46):
So the one who needs to deconstruct likely is the
Christian kid. The kid in the Christian home.
S1 (13:51):
Maybe.
S3 (13:52):
Oh, that's why they do it is because they they say,
I need to take ownership of my faith and figuring out,
do I actually believe what's been passed down to me?
Because you cannot pass down an ideology.
S1 (14:02):
I think can be I think it can be a
very good thing because it actually makes your faith your own,
not your parents.
S4 (14:07):
Right.
S3 (14:08):
And for those that left the faith, they were probably
not real stable anyway, and were probably going to at
some point, regardless of what label we gave it.
S4 (14:15):
Thanks for watching. Do you need more Ron in your life?
Subscribe and ring the notification bell so you never miss
a new video.
My small group is talking about the Book of Jonah.
S2 (00:33):
That's a good one.
S1 (00:33):
We're reading through a Tim Keller book called Rediscovering Jonah. Okay.
S2 (00:38):
I didn't know Keller did a Jonah book.
S1 (00:40):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's Tim Keller. Now, you're kidding me.
S2 (00:42):
No, no, no. I believe you. He's great. I'm excited. Sorry.
I'm excited.
S1 (00:46):
No, it's really good so far. And in the first
chapter of this book, he talks about two different ways
we run from God. So a quick overview of the
book of Jonah and the story. Jonah is in Joppa.
God says, go to Nineveh. And he said, no. And
he went to Tarshish, which is the exact opposite way
(01:08):
of Nineveh, for 2500 miles. So this one map says
in the opposite direction.
S2 (01:13):
Now, why did he do that again? Like it was,
he didn't like Nineveh, right? Or something?
S1 (01:17):
Yeah. The Ninevites were a very violent people, so scared.
They were like beheading people and like, traipsing them around in, like,
the square. And they were happy about it. They were
proud of themselves. They were very scary people. And he's like,
so basically, God, what you're telling me is to go
get killed. That's what you're saying. And so he ran
the opposite direction.
S2 (01:36):
And it must have taken him a long time, because
ancient world, 2500 miles in the opposite direction.
S1 (01:41):
A long time.
S2 (01:42):
Is like weeks.
S1 (01:43):
Yeah.
S2 (01:44):
At least.
S1 (01:45):
At least.
S2 (01:46):
Wow. I didn't picture it that way.
S1 (01:49):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
S2 (01:50):
I thought it was a little bit shorter.
S1 (01:51):
Or, like, just like, a little bit out of the way.
S2 (01:53):
Like I'm running over here.
S1 (01:55):
He went towards the end of it, like, took a
right turn. No. Yeah. Opposite direction.
S2 (01:58):
Okay.
S1 (01:59):
So that happens in the first half. Whale happens. He
rediscovers God's like. Hello. I still want you to do
what I said. So then he makes his way back
to Nineveh. Okay. All all the way back to 2500
miles and then plus some to get to Nineveh. So
Tim Keller is talking about the two ways that we
run from God. And we see it in both. We
(02:20):
see both in Jonah. The first way is wickedness. We do.
We're like, I don't want anything to do with God,
so I'm just going to sin, be bad, be filled
with evil and vile things. And we see it in
Romans 129. It says their lives became full of every
kind of wickedness sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception,
malicious behavior, and gossip. They were backstabbers, haters of God, insolent,
(02:44):
proud and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning and
they are disobedient to their parents. They refuse to understand,
break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They
know God's justice requires that those who do these things
deserve to die. Yet they do them anyway. Worse yet,
they encourage others to do them too. So the first
way to run from God is you're just, you know,
(03:05):
I don't care about him. So I'm going to do
the opposite. I'm going to be wicked and evil, and
that's fine. So you're running from God.
S2 (03:11):
And they're going to invent new ways to sin, which
I found that part amusing. That's right. Like whatever didn't list,
they're going to make it up.
S1 (03:17):
So we see in sort Jonah doing that. He's running
to Tarshish. He's he's saying, no, I don't want anything
to do with what God is asking me to do.
Forget that guy. I'm doing what I want. The other
way is in Romans 217 through 25. You who call
yourselves Jews are relying on God's law, and you boast
about your special relationship with him. You know what he wants.
(03:39):
You know what is right because you've done you have
been taught his law. You're convinced that you are a
guide for the blind and a light for the people
who are lost in darkness. You think that you can
instruct the ignorant and teach children the ways of God,
for you are certain that God's law gives you the
complete knowledge and truth. So the second way we run
from God. Number one, opposite of him. Everything that is
against God you do opposite of that is we run
(04:02):
from God by acting like we know everything and we
just follow the law. We become moral and right and perfect.
So then we don't need God.
S3 (04:09):
I can do it myself, right?
S2 (04:12):
The person probably wouldn't say that.
S1 (04:14):
No, no, no, they think that they're doing the right thing. Yeah,
but what they're actually doing is hiding from God because
they go to church every week. They don't sin. So
they say they volunteer at church every day of the week. Day.
They set up church for Christmas. They follow all the laws.
S2 (04:33):
They pray real loud.
S1 (04:34):
They pray really loud at restaurants. They wake up at
6 a.m. and do their quiet time.
S2 (04:39):
Posted on Instagram, highlighting.
S1 (04:41):
They tell people about Jesus, they share the gospel on
the street.
S2 (04:45):
And those are all good things, by the way.
S1 (04:46):
But there are a lot of times what you're actually
doing is hiding from God with your good deeds now.
S2 (04:53):
But that person would tell you they're doing those things
to get closer to God.
S1 (04:58):
Yeah, but if you're just doing all those things just
to fill your time and not actually be in relationship
with God, you're not actually showing any of yourself to God.
You're just doing things.
S3 (05:09):
So could this person be like subconsciously saying, I'm afraid
to be with God or to know God?
S1 (05:15):
Oh yeah. I'm afraid to let myself be known by God.
S2 (05:18):
And see that one's the scarier one to me because
it's it's so subtle and sinister. It's like when someone's
totally rejecting God and going in the opposite direction. They
know what they're doing.
S1 (05:29):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
S2 (05:30):
But somebody could be doing all the religious things, thinking
they're doing the right thing, having no idea they're running
from God.
S3 (05:37):
And no one can call them out on it because
it's a little bit harder to pick up on what
they're doing.
S1 (05:40):
Right?
S2 (05:41):
Yes.
S1 (05:42):
Uh, Keller says we all know and acknowledge that we
can run away from God. But what Paul is saying
in these two Romans verses, what Paul is saying is
that it is possible to avoid God by becoming very
religious and moral people, because if you become very religious
and very moral, you don't need God. What? Why do
you need God if you don't do anything wrong? Why
do you need God if you're not daily, you know,
(06:04):
dying to yourself and showing yourself how wrong you are? Wow.
How opposite of God you are. All the ways that
you sin in your heart and your mind.
S2 (06:14):
Yeah, I see this, um, in this era of social media. Right?
Where there's people who are. They've just got it all
figured out. In fact, they they have their whole ministry.
Quote unquote, is based on destroying people that disagree with
them about their religious activity, their theology. They got it
all figured out.
S3 (06:35):
It's very ignorant to think that you've got it figured out,
that you've arrived after 2000 years of people struggling with
certain passages, or 2000 years of general consensus on this
or that, but you've got it figured out.
S2 (06:46):
It's like it's a spiritual arrogance that pervades this type
of person, right? They've never met a theological dilemma that
they can't solve.
S1 (06:55):
It's like, what's the answer to it? To the two
ways we run from God. Because I think there's times
in our life that we do both.
S3 (07:03):
What do you mean, what's the answer?
S1 (07:04):
Like, how do we find the middle of not just
doing everything right, but also not just turning towards wickedness? Gotcha.
S2 (07:13):
The easier turn is the person who is, you know,
doing the evil. They're making up new sins. That that
side of it that Paul was talking about. I think
that's the easier one to turn from. And we see
those dramatic testimonies all the time. It's where they finally
hit rock bottom. And they have to make a choice.
And they do. And they surrender. And they live powerful
(07:34):
lives of surrender. The other one is really hard. It's everywhere.
S1 (07:40):
I think we have to start first. Start by what
are ways that you've been running from God? In both ways.
It could be. Either way, you have to examine your
own life. What are ways you've been running from God
and turning towards wickedness and evil things and just go,
continuing to go on sinning. Or what are ways that
you're hiding from God? If we put it a different way,
(08:02):
what are the ways that you're hiding from God? By
just doing all the right things and knowing all the
right things?
S2 (08:08):
Yeah, I mean, I, I did the more sinister one
for most of my life. I, I grew up in
a Christian home. So I in order to do the
right things, I specifically avoided doing all the overtly naughty
things that Paul was listing. Yeah. not to say it
wasn't sinning, but I was like, well, this is what
(08:29):
I have to do. So I did that and then I.
For me, it was knowledge. It was like, if I
could just gain enough knowledge that would equal relationship with Christ.
S1 (08:39):
Yeah. And that's what the Roman two passage was exactly
calling out. He literally said, you think that you have
all this knowledge, and so it makes you better and
it makes you closer to God.
S2 (08:48):
And I would have read that.
S1 (08:50):
I'm like, yeah.
S2 (08:50):
And my intense reading, I would have been like, yeah,
those Jewish guys, look at those guys. What are they doing? Losers.
They were. It was modern day. It'd be different. You know,
me and my friends, we got it.
S3 (09:00):
I think we have a lot, of lot of modern
day Pharisees in the church. A lot.
S2 (09:06):
I would venture to guess it's going to sound horrible.
So yell at me. Get ready. Take a deep breath.
I over half of people I encounter in churches and such.
S1 (09:20):
Could be.
S3 (09:20):
It's possible.
S2 (09:22):
Like they are doing all the things and they're pretty
proud of it. I mean, they're not going to say
that out loud, but they would accept the award if
you gave it to them.
S3 (09:29):
Yeah, the hard part is they don't know what they're doing.
They don't realize that they've made themselves God. And I
think that's just part of human nature. And something a
lot of us are going to struggle with is, I mean,
the story of God is so good that it almost
feels like it can't be true. We don't have to
do anything. And that's especially hard to grasp in our
American culture of pull yourself up by your bootstraps. But like, no,
(09:50):
we don't have to do anything. Like, yes, God wants
us to obey his statutes and commands, but we don't
have to do anything, and there's nothing we can do.
S2 (09:58):
And we're doing it because we're afraid either he's going
to be mad at us if we don't, or that
if we don't do it, it's not going to get done.
Like he needs Jesus needs me to do in the
nursery this week. He needs it.
S3 (10:12):
If I don't do it, who will?
S2 (10:14):
And then you get, like, frustrated at all those losers
who aren't volunteering like you.
S1 (10:19):
Right.
S4 (10:20):
And a lot of times the churches will enhance that
by they have a desperate need for workers in the
children's church and the nursery. So they'll they'll mention that frequently.
And then you pat yourself on the back and be like, well, yeah,
I'm doing my part.
S2 (10:37):
I am a super Christian. Now, to what extent did
you experience this, Lauren? I mean, you're a pastor's kid.
S1 (10:45):
Yeah.
S2 (10:45):
And you're. You went to Moody Bible Institute.
S1 (10:48):
I know how to follow the rules real good.
S2 (10:52):
Because you. You're a pastor's kid. That's right. Was it
more the pastor's kid part or the moody part that
made you the rule follower?
S1 (10:59):
Um, I think it's also just a personality bent. I
am just a rule follower. Just in all things in life.
Not just my Christian life.
S2 (11:06):
Yeah. Like, show me the box and I'm going to
live in it.
S1 (11:08):
Exactly. Right. Just tell me what to do, and I'll
do it.
S2 (11:11):
Yeah.
S1 (11:12):
Um, so I think it's just growing up in church
and you're taught in church what to do, what not
to do, and how to do it. And then do
the same thing at Christian school. You get in trouble
if you don't do those exact things. And then going
to Bible school, it's the same thing. Um, I think
that made me after school, after college, when I was
(11:34):
out on my own to be like, let me, like,
test my wings here. Let me actually run the opposite direction.
Let me do the other way of what everyone has
been telling me to do for my entire life, and
they've not provided me the ways of, hey, you actually
have to like, have a relationship, not just follow all
these rules. So I just did the exact opposite, and
I turned toward the wickedness and finding new ways to
sin and do all of that. And it took a
(11:58):
like rock bottom moments, probably multiple of them, for God
to say hello. There's a way in between.
S2 (12:06):
You ran to Tarshish, basically.
S1 (12:07):
Yes. Yes, exactly. Because Jonah did, in the first half
of the book runs to Tarshish, Tarshish, and does his
little thing. He's like, I'm running away from God. I'm
turning my back. I don't want anything to do with him.
Then he comes back, he's humbled, and he actually goes
to Nineveh. But then he's like, ah, but these people
are like really bad. I'm way better than them. So
I don't want to tell them the gospel, because why
(12:29):
would I? I'm better than them.
S2 (12:32):
Yeah. And see, your experience is one that, uh, almost
says that, you know, people hate deconstruction. That was a
big thing for, like, a whole year in the Christian faith.
Still is. Yeah. People are like, it's scary. Don't let
your kids deconstruct. But there's a layer at which all
of us, at some level, have to deconstruct from one
of those two ways to run from God, because I
think it's pretty universal that we do. One of the two, yes,
(12:54):
if not both. Yes, I think not until you break
it down.
S1 (12:57):
Right. I think everyone has moments of doing both.
S2 (13:00):
And yet there's people that want to scream at me
like you never deconstruct. You can't. Like if you do,
you'll leave the faith.
S1 (13:08):
Not true.
S2 (13:10):
It's almost needed. That's controversial. I mean, I'm Ron Eastwood,
Ron eastwood@moody.edu.
S1 (13:16):
I think you believe all the things that you believe
as a child. You have to start like deconstructing that
in Anything. So you want like kids who believe in
Santa Claus to still believe in Santa Claus when they're 28? No.
You have to start pulling away layers of things that
you believed as a child that may not actually be true,
or that you interpreted in incorrectly as a child, or
(13:39):
what people told you. Adults told you and they thought
we were being helpful. It didn't quite compute in a
child's mind, and you have to change it.
S2 (13:46):
So the one who needs to deconstruct likely is the
Christian kid. The kid in the Christian home.
S1 (13:51):
Maybe.
S3 (13:52):
Oh, that's why they do it is because they they say,
I need to take ownership of my faith and figuring out,
do I actually believe what's been passed down to me?
Because you cannot pass down an ideology.
S1 (14:02):
I think can be I think it can be a
very good thing because it actually makes your faith your own,
not your parents.
S4 (14:07):
Right.
S3 (14:08):
And for those that left the faith, they were probably
not real stable anyway, and were probably going to at
some point, regardless of what label we gave it.
S4 (14:15):
Thanks for watching. Do you need more Ron in your life?
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