April 8, 2025 • 10 mins
Daria was troubled by a billboard she saw on 77 North near Canton. The billboard issues a bold statement about the teachings of Jesus. Is the statement accurate and is it the message we want to send to a hurting world that is already skeptical of Christians? We'll also reflect on the depths of Jesus's love and His blood's coverage for a multitude of sins. Join us for a deep dive into how the church should approach evangelism, and whether harsh messages are truly effective in sharing the Gospel.
Donate to Moody Radio: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/morningshow/wcrf
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:30):
So the big question for our next conversation is, is
that really the headline for the Christian faith? Like, I mean,
church marketing is a thing we got to do. We
got to market the Christian faith. Sure. I mean, I
don't I know some people don't like that concept though, right?
They think that's gross to market the church, right?
S2 (00:46):
How else are people going to find out about us though?
S3 (00:49):
And our our little country church where I grew up,
we had a, a white wooden sign with, you know,
replaceable letters in the front. And it said, we preach
the book, The Blood and the blessed Hope. And when
we were talking about marketing one time, there were a
few people who bristled and said, oh, no, that's slick
(01:09):
Madison Avenue kind of. And and somebody said, you know,
the sign out front, that's marketing.
S2 (01:15):
Having your name on the building is technically marketing.
S3 (01:18):
True.
S1 (01:18):
And even isn't. And I could be off on this.
Isn't discipleship in itself a form of marketing?
S2 (01:24):
I suppose you could think of it that way.
S1 (01:26):
The idea of you're going out and making disciples, you're
living your life in front of other people as a
reflection as best you can of Of Christ, and they're
seeing it and they want to emulate that too. Like
in a way, you're kind of drawing them in. It's
a little bit of a twist, but.
S3 (01:42):
Your life is the marketing ploy.
S2 (01:45):
If you're looking for a job, you say you're marketing
yourself just like, hey, this is cool, and you should
try it.
S1 (01:50):
And I remember years ago, Ron and I had a
great time chatting about a Texas church that decided, because
it's Texas, of course we need to do something very big. Uh,
let's make the world's largest cross on the side of
this road. There's a major highway. And it was, remember,
I don't remember how many million dollars, but.
S3 (02:09):
Yeah, because Texas is so flat, you could see it
for miles.
S1 (02:13):
Yeah. And our question was, you know, was it worth
the money? Right. And was it good marketing? Uh, so
Daria had encountered this in a new way in our
own community recently, a church that was, I think, in
some sense, trying to market. What is a billboard for? Right.
S2 (02:31):
Yeah. So, um, I was visiting my grandma does sweet Adelines.
It's a barbershop. A barbershop is so sweet.
S4 (02:41):
Does she?
S2 (02:41):
She does.
S4 (02:42):
I want to hear it.
S2 (02:42):
She's done this for years.
S4 (02:44):
Is there a YouTube of this?
S2 (02:45):
Uh, probably not, but she could send me a video
if you want to see it later.
S1 (02:47):
So cute.
S4 (02:48):
Okay.
S2 (02:48):
But anyway, so she had a concert down in Cambridge.
So I went to meet her and my grandpa there,
and we had lunch. Um, and then on my way back,
I'm driving 77 north. I'm just south of canton, maybe
like 20 minutes or so. And I see this billboard, uh,
it says, quote, Jesus says remarriage after divorce is a sin.
S1 (03:08):
And and that period.
S4 (03:10):
Period.
S2 (03:10):
Nothing else.
S4 (03:11):
Um, Billboard.
S2 (03:12):
Billboard. Yes.
S3 (03:13):
Wow.
S1 (03:13):
Like, you know, in the same row of billboards, is
somebody marketing their.
S4 (03:18):
HVAC.
S2 (03:18):
Company and, you know, that kind of kind of.
S4 (03:20):
Thing? Yeah, I'll.
S3 (03:21):
Make them pay.
S2 (03:22):
Yes. So I remember I've now seen it a couple
times since I've, you know, traveled back and forth down
that area. I just remember being very I was shocked,
but also kind of angry when I saw that. Um,
it's like, hey, guys, what are we doing? First of all,
that's not a direct quote out of Scripture. Um, we
can get into the theological issues in a separate conversation,
(03:44):
but there is some debate on whether remarriage after divorce
is okay, when it's okay, that kind of thing. So
it's not like a black and white issue, and they're
putting it on a billboard as if it's not only fact,
but a direct quote. But also I'm like, okay, let's
pretend for a second that this is true. Is this
how we want people who maybe know nothing else about
us to view us? This judgmental? Everything fits into neat
(04:09):
little boxes and there's no messiness of life type of people.
S1 (04:13):
Yeah. And I'm trying to think, is the audience divorced people? Like,
is that who they're picturing?
S2 (04:18):
Yeah, that's the other thing I'm wondering is who is
this for? Like, is this.
S4 (04:21):
For.
S2 (04:22):
For non-Christians who like I mean, there's plenty of non-Christians
driving by. So you have to assume that that's at
least part of your audience. Is this for Christians? Are
we now having to make people who got remarried bad?
Are we? I just I don't know why this exists.
S1 (04:40):
I mean, I think the only reasonable conclusion is that
they are trying to convict the divorced.
S3 (04:48):
Yeah, that's that's the goal, right? That's the effect of it.
If they had a different goal, I'd love to hear
their thinking.
S4 (04:57):
What could it.
S1 (04:57):
Possibly reasonably be, though?
S3 (05:00):
Because if you want to, if you want to show them, hey,
you've committed a sin, but Jesus will save you from
your sin. Yeah, you got to tell them that.
S4 (05:09):
Yeah, you.
S1 (05:09):
Got to give them the comma.
S4 (05:10):
Yeah, but.
S1 (05:11):
Jesus loves you no matter what. Or something like that,
you know?
S4 (05:14):
Yeah, but.
S3 (05:16):
It's just like.
S2 (05:18):
Hey, you suck.
S3 (05:19):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
S4 (05:22):
Yeah.
S1 (05:22):
And, you know, we've there's varying levels of marketing. Like,
some people think that when it's not even effective to
super vaguely promote the gospel. Like that was one of
the critiques of the that campaign.
S4 (05:34):
That was.
S2 (05:35):
He gets us from the Super Bowl last.
S4 (05:36):
Year like.
S1 (05:36):
It wasn't specific enough. Okay, fair. I had my own
critiques to people who want to scare you into heaven.
S4 (05:43):
Right.
S3 (05:43):
With, like, Halloween houses?
S4 (05:45):
Yeah.
S1 (05:46):
Or even billboards. Like, you like it hot?
S3 (05:49):
No.
S2 (05:50):
There's a very infamous about an hour out of Columbus
in the middle of a cornfield. The infamous hell is
real billboard. I don't know if you've seen it, but
if you're from central Ohio, you know it. It's corn. Corn,
grandpa's cheese barn. Hell is real. And then you keep
driving and there's more corn.
S1 (06:05):
Yeah. And so I don't like the idea of scaring
someone into heaven, but this is a new one. What
you're describing is insulting people into heaven. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
I mean, what else could that be?
S2 (06:18):
Yeah.
S1 (06:18):
What are you doing, you idiot? Come to my church.
Was there even, like, a website reference or.
S2 (06:24):
I think it's like this because I've seen billboards from
this company before. I wish I could remember the exact name,
but I think it's this larger organization. But, like, very,
very tiny in the bottom. There's, um, who they are.
It's not a local church, is it?
S3 (06:36):
The one that's like a phone number?
S2 (06:38):
Yeah. Like, yeah.
S3 (06:39):
It's something like eight. Seven. Jesus. But I don't know.
S2 (06:42):
Something like that. I mean, we're yeah.
S1 (06:45):
Yeah. And and to your point as well, Daria, there's,
you know, I may have my objections to scaring people
into heaven. Um, but at least that deals with an
issue tied to salvation. What we would call a salvific issue. Okay.
Like heaven and hell has to do with salvation itself,
which is a core issue for the Christian faith. But
(07:07):
these folks have decided to make the headline a secondary
issue in the Christian faith. That has nothing to do
with salvation.
S2 (07:14):
As if. I mean, let's pretend for a minute, and
I think there are. We're not getting deep into it.
I think there are some cases in which remarriage after
divorce may not be okay. However, that's not an irredeemable
sin because Jesus can redeem it all.
S1 (07:27):
That is correct and reasonable. Christians disagree on that issue
of divorce and remarriage. I've, uh, I've been a member
of churches who have positions on either side.
S3 (07:38):
And coming up in a few minutes, we're going to
hear from Bible expert Michael Reidenbach, who will not agree
with this billboard at all.
S1 (07:47):
Yeah. So I don't know what. There's nothing we can
do about this, but I don't know. Is there anything
we can do about something like this? I mean, you
don't want to go there and you don't want to
vandalize it, but it, like, hurts my heart that this
church has chosen, or this organization has chosen to use
insults to evangelize.
S2 (08:05):
I actually do think there is something we can do.
S1 (08:07):
Oh.
S2 (08:08):
I think, I mean, so the billboard is very big
and very obvious, but I think you need to remember
that your life is also a billboard.
S3 (08:15):
Oh, yes.
S2 (08:16):
And go around, you know, just front of mind how
people see me. If they know I'm a Christian and
they should know I'm a Christian by my actions, is
how they perceive Jesus and the rest of the church.
S1 (08:25):
And I wonder if, especially if you live in the area,
if you don't like, bring it up occasionally to like
if you have a, you know, talking to your neighbor. Hey,
by the way, did you see that billboard out there?
That's horrible. I'm a Christian, and I'm just so upset
that you have to read something like that about people
that I love.
S3 (08:42):
Right. Maybe bring it up. If you have a men's
group or a women's Bible study and talk about it
and let let people know, because I'm sure there will
be some who have been through divorce, even within your
churches who look at that and then they start to wonder.
So let them know that no, that's not true. Let's
(09:05):
look at the word and find out what the truth is.
S1 (09:08):
Yeah. And, you know, maybe you're listening now and you've
driven past that and it's hurt you. We're so sorry.
S3 (09:13):
Yes.
S1 (09:15):
The message of the cross is that nothing can separate
us from the love of Jesus. Neither height nor depth,
nor anything else in all of creation can separate us
from the love of Christ. It doesn't mean we can
go and willingly, willingly sin. But goodness sakes, there are
not sins for which the Lord will reject you. And
(09:36):
that's what that billboard makes people think.
S3 (09:38):
Right.
S1 (09:39):
And I'm so sorry. He loves you deeply. And if
you want to know more about that divorce and remarriage issue,
talk to your pastor or do some research on your
own on the internet. It's not hard to figure out, right?
There are varying positions on that from followers of Jesus
and theologians throughout the ages. But, um, yeah, let's not
make that a headline. They're supposed to know. They're supposed
(10:03):
to know of Christ by our love for one another,
not our insults for people's decisions.
So the big question for our next conversation is, is
that really the headline for the Christian faith? Like, I mean,
church marketing is a thing we got to do. We
got to market the Christian faith. Sure. I mean, I
don't I know some people don't like that concept though, right?
They think that's gross to market the church, right?
S2 (00:46):
How else are people going to find out about us though?
S3 (00:49):
And our our little country church where I grew up,
we had a, a white wooden sign with, you know,
replaceable letters in the front. And it said, we preach
the book, The Blood and the blessed Hope. And when
we were talking about marketing one time, there were a
few people who bristled and said, oh, no, that's slick
(01:09):
Madison Avenue kind of. And and somebody said, you know,
the sign out front, that's marketing.
S2 (01:15):
Having your name on the building is technically marketing.
S3 (01:18):
True.
S1 (01:18):
And even isn't. And I could be off on this.
Isn't discipleship in itself a form of marketing?
S2 (01:24):
I suppose you could think of it that way.
S1 (01:26):
The idea of you're going out and making disciples, you're
living your life in front of other people as a
reflection as best you can of Of Christ, and they're
seeing it and they want to emulate that too. Like
in a way, you're kind of drawing them in. It's
a little bit of a twist, but.
S3 (01:42):
Your life is the marketing ploy.
S2 (01:45):
If you're looking for a job, you say you're marketing
yourself just like, hey, this is cool, and you should
try it.
S1 (01:50):
And I remember years ago, Ron and I had a
great time chatting about a Texas church that decided, because
it's Texas, of course we need to do something very big. Uh,
let's make the world's largest cross on the side of
this road. There's a major highway. And it was, remember,
I don't remember how many million dollars, but.
S3 (02:09):
Yeah, because Texas is so flat, you could see it
for miles.
S1 (02:13):
Yeah. And our question was, you know, was it worth
the money? Right. And was it good marketing? Uh, so
Daria had encountered this in a new way in our
own community recently, a church that was, I think, in
some sense, trying to market. What is a billboard for? Right.
S2 (02:31):
Yeah. So, um, I was visiting my grandma does sweet Adelines.
It's a barbershop. A barbershop is so sweet.
S4 (02:41):
Does she?
S2 (02:41):
She does.
S4 (02:42):
I want to hear it.
S2 (02:42):
She's done this for years.
S4 (02:44):
Is there a YouTube of this?
S2 (02:45):
Uh, probably not, but she could send me a video
if you want to see it later.
S1 (02:47):
So cute.
S4 (02:48):
Okay.
S2 (02:48):
But anyway, so she had a concert down in Cambridge.
So I went to meet her and my grandpa there,
and we had lunch. Um, and then on my way back,
I'm driving 77 north. I'm just south of canton, maybe
like 20 minutes or so. And I see this billboard, uh,
it says, quote, Jesus says remarriage after divorce is a sin.
S1 (03:08):
And and that period.
S4 (03:10):
Period.
S2 (03:10):
Nothing else.
S4 (03:11):
Um, Billboard.
S2 (03:12):
Billboard. Yes.
S3 (03:13):
Wow.
S1 (03:13):
Like, you know, in the same row of billboards, is
somebody marketing their.
S4 (03:18):
HVAC.
S2 (03:18):
Company and, you know, that kind of kind of.
S4 (03:20):
Thing? Yeah, I'll.
S3 (03:21):
Make them pay.
S2 (03:22):
Yes. So I remember I've now seen it a couple
times since I've, you know, traveled back and forth down
that area. I just remember being very I was shocked,
but also kind of angry when I saw that. Um,
it's like, hey, guys, what are we doing? First of all,
that's not a direct quote out of Scripture. Um, we
can get into the theological issues in a separate conversation,
(03:44):
but there is some debate on whether remarriage after divorce
is okay, when it's okay, that kind of thing. So
it's not like a black and white issue, and they're
putting it on a billboard as if it's not only fact,
but a direct quote. But also I'm like, okay, let's
pretend for a second that this is true. Is this
how we want people who maybe know nothing else about
us to view us? This judgmental? Everything fits into neat
(04:09):
little boxes and there's no messiness of life type of people.
S1 (04:13):
Yeah. And I'm trying to think, is the audience divorced people? Like,
is that who they're picturing?
S2 (04:18):
Yeah, that's the other thing I'm wondering is who is
this for? Like, is this.
S4 (04:21):
For.
S2 (04:22):
For non-Christians who like I mean, there's plenty of non-Christians
driving by. So you have to assume that that's at
least part of your audience. Is this for Christians? Are
we now having to make people who got remarried bad?
Are we? I just I don't know why this exists.
S1 (04:40):
I mean, I think the only reasonable conclusion is that
they are trying to convict the divorced.
S3 (04:48):
Yeah, that's that's the goal, right? That's the effect of it.
If they had a different goal, I'd love to hear
their thinking.
S4 (04:57):
What could it.
S1 (04:57):
Possibly reasonably be, though?
S3 (05:00):
Because if you want to, if you want to show them, hey,
you've committed a sin, but Jesus will save you from
your sin. Yeah, you got to tell them that.
S4 (05:09):
Yeah, you.
S1 (05:09):
Got to give them the comma.
S4 (05:10):
Yeah, but.
S1 (05:11):
Jesus loves you no matter what. Or something like that,
you know?
S4 (05:14):
Yeah, but.
S3 (05:16):
It's just like.
S2 (05:18):
Hey, you suck.
S3 (05:19):
Yeah, exactly, exactly.
S4 (05:22):
Yeah.
S1 (05:22):
And, you know, we've there's varying levels of marketing. Like,
some people think that when it's not even effective to
super vaguely promote the gospel. Like that was one of
the critiques of the that campaign.
S4 (05:34):
That was.
S2 (05:35):
He gets us from the Super Bowl last.
S4 (05:36):
Year like.
S1 (05:36):
It wasn't specific enough. Okay, fair. I had my own
critiques to people who want to scare you into heaven.
S4 (05:43):
Right.
S3 (05:43):
With, like, Halloween houses?
S4 (05:45):
Yeah.
S1 (05:46):
Or even billboards. Like, you like it hot?
S3 (05:49):
No.
S2 (05:50):
There's a very infamous about an hour out of Columbus
in the middle of a cornfield. The infamous hell is
real billboard. I don't know if you've seen it, but
if you're from central Ohio, you know it. It's corn. Corn,
grandpa's cheese barn. Hell is real. And then you keep
driving and there's more corn.
S1 (06:05):
Yeah. And so I don't like the idea of scaring
someone into heaven, but this is a new one. What
you're describing is insulting people into heaven. Yeah. Yeah. Right.
I mean, what else could that be?
S2 (06:18):
Yeah.
S1 (06:18):
What are you doing, you idiot? Come to my church.
Was there even, like, a website reference or.
S2 (06:24):
I think it's like this because I've seen billboards from
this company before. I wish I could remember the exact name,
but I think it's this larger organization. But, like, very,
very tiny in the bottom. There's, um, who they are.
It's not a local church, is it?
S3 (06:36):
The one that's like a phone number?
S2 (06:38):
Yeah. Like, yeah.
S3 (06:39):
It's something like eight. Seven. Jesus. But I don't know.
S2 (06:42):
Something like that. I mean, we're yeah.
S1 (06:45):
Yeah. And and to your point as well, Daria, there's,
you know, I may have my objections to scaring people
into heaven. Um, but at least that deals with an
issue tied to salvation. What we would call a salvific issue. Okay.
Like heaven and hell has to do with salvation itself,
which is a core issue for the Christian faith. But
(07:07):
these folks have decided to make the headline a secondary
issue in the Christian faith. That has nothing to do
with salvation.
S2 (07:14):
As if. I mean, let's pretend for a minute, and
I think there are. We're not getting deep into it.
I think there are some cases in which remarriage after
divorce may not be okay. However, that's not an irredeemable
sin because Jesus can redeem it all.
S1 (07:27):
That is correct and reasonable. Christians disagree on that issue
of divorce and remarriage. I've, uh, I've been a member
of churches who have positions on either side.
S3 (07:38):
And coming up in a few minutes, we're going to
hear from Bible expert Michael Reidenbach, who will not agree
with this billboard at all.
S1 (07:47):
Yeah. So I don't know what. There's nothing we can
do about this, but I don't know. Is there anything
we can do about something like this? I mean, you
don't want to go there and you don't want to
vandalize it, but it, like, hurts my heart that this
church has chosen, or this organization has chosen to use
insults to evangelize.
S2 (08:05):
I actually do think there is something we can do.
S1 (08:07):
Oh.
S2 (08:08):
I think, I mean, so the billboard is very big
and very obvious, but I think you need to remember
that your life is also a billboard.
S3 (08:15):
Oh, yes.
S2 (08:16):
And go around, you know, just front of mind how
people see me. If they know I'm a Christian and
they should know I'm a Christian by my actions, is
how they perceive Jesus and the rest of the church.
S1 (08:25):
And I wonder if, especially if you live in the area,
if you don't like, bring it up occasionally to like
if you have a, you know, talking to your neighbor. Hey,
by the way, did you see that billboard out there?
That's horrible. I'm a Christian, and I'm just so upset
that you have to read something like that about people
that I love.
S3 (08:42):
Right. Maybe bring it up. If you have a men's
group or a women's Bible study and talk about it
and let let people know, because I'm sure there will
be some who have been through divorce, even within your
churches who look at that and then they start to wonder.
So let them know that no, that's not true. Let's
(09:05):
look at the word and find out what the truth is.
S1 (09:08):
Yeah. And, you know, maybe you're listening now and you've
driven past that and it's hurt you. We're so sorry.
S3 (09:13):
Yes.
S1 (09:15):
The message of the cross is that nothing can separate
us from the love of Jesus. Neither height nor depth,
nor anything else in all of creation can separate us
from the love of Christ. It doesn't mean we can
go and willingly, willingly sin. But goodness sakes, there are
not sins for which the Lord will reject you. And
(09:36):
that's what that billboard makes people think.
S3 (09:38):
Right.
S1 (09:39):
And I'm so sorry. He loves you deeply. And if
you want to know more about that divorce and remarriage issue,
talk to your pastor or do some research on your
own on the internet. It's not hard to figure out, right?
There are varying positions on that from followers of Jesus
and theologians throughout the ages. But, um, yeah, let's not
make that a headline. They're supposed to know. They're supposed
(10:03):
to know of Christ by our love for one another,
not our insults for people's decisions.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.