May 14, 2025 • 15 mins
New research by Focus on the Family has found the healthiest, happiest marriages in the U.S. are those in which Christian couples actively practice their faith. Wednesday on Mornings with Eric and Brigitte, Gary Schneeberger, Assistant to the President for Media Relations at Focus on the Family will share how to avoid marital crises and live in thriving Christ centered unions.
Healthy Marriage Traits - Focus on the Family
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:04):
You're listening to Moody Radio 89.3, and this is mornings
with Eric and Bridget.
S2 (00:08):
Well, there's our way and then there's God's way. A
lot of time in the way we do life and
the way we do relationships and marriage is no different.
And we're finding out that his way is better.
S1 (00:20):
Wow. Yeah. And not just in marriage, but in almost
any adventure. No. In every adventure we take on his
way is better. Absolutely. We we again, I said it
earlier today. In our pride and our arrogance, we think
we can deal with this on our own strength and power.
And that what? Heaven laughs at that, right? And then
(00:40):
we need to understand that his ways are much better
than our ways when it comes to parenting, when it
comes to that relationship with our spouse, when it comes
to our our job, when it comes to just keep
going down that list. Uh, we need to rely on
his understanding of things, because then then we have wisdom
(01:02):
in our own arrogance, we have confusion, but he gives
us wisdom when we ask for it, and he will
provide it for us in our marriage, relationships, in our.
And just keep going down that list.
S2 (01:12):
Yeah, of course, through his word. But then there are
also ministries that can come alongside us as husbands, as wives,
as mothers and fathers. And focus on the family has
been one for many decades, actually. And, uh, Gary Schneeberger
is with us right now talking about some research that
your ministry has done recently, because it's kind of taking
a look at the healthiest and happiest marriages. And I
(01:34):
guess if you just want to give the headline right
up front here, um, who's having those happy, healthy marriages?
S3 (01:41):
Uh, well, first of all, thanks for having me on. Uh,
I'm always excited to talk about this. And in fact,
the report itself, um, which we call the state of
the family marriage study, isn't really going to come out
until in the early fall. But I was so excited
and the team was so excited about one detail that
we found in particular, that I just started talking about
(02:02):
it over the last couple of months, because it's just
so exciting. And what that detail is, is we surveyed
3800 couples, American couples, um, about, um, their own self-assessments
of their marriage. So it's, it's first person thoughts about
how their marriages are going. And one of the things
(02:22):
we found on 32 marriage areas that indicate the health
of a marriage on every single one of those 32
data points, those 32 outcomes in marriage, folks who are
what the social scientists call convictional Christians. That means Christians
who don't just believe their faith, don't just internalize it,
(02:44):
but practice it on all 32 marriage areas, which range from, um, uh,
respecting each other, uh, friends and family aren't, aren't, uh,
causing problems in our marriage being encouraging, uh, to each other.
And 32 of those measurements, the number one On healthiest
(03:07):
folks as they assess themselves, are these convictional Christians who
are practicing their faith? That was too big. We're still
putting all the, you know, dotting the i's and crossing
the T's on all the research, but that one is
one that I've been talking about now for almost two months,
because it's just so astounding that if you lean into
your faith, if you practice your faith, if you read
the Bible, if you, uh, go to Bible study, if
(03:30):
you pray together, your marriage is going to be healthier.
And that was too good to hang on to until
everything is dotted and crossed.
S1 (03:38):
What about those that show up for church on a
weekly basis? And that's kind of the extent of it.
Did they show up within the research as having positive influence,
or was it just these that are the, you know,
those that are most committed, I guess?
S3 (03:54):
Yeah, those who are most committed are the ones who
say that they're healthiest in their marriages. There are what
the study calls born again Christians, right. Those are the
ones who show up, uh, most Sundays. There also are
nominal Christians, and nominal Christians. We also surveyed and those, uh,
those folks are the ones who say, I'm a Christian
and then really don't think about it much day to day,
(04:15):
week to week. Um, and then, of course, there's non-Christians.
So it's the convictional ones. And again, I'm not thrilled
with that term. The researchers aren't aren't thrilled with that term,
but that's what researchers have called it. So we're looking
for other things that we might be able to call it.
But what it means is people who who don't just
talk the talk but walk the walk, those who do
that have the healthiest marriages and they're least likely to
(04:39):
face crisis, which is which leads to divorce and all
of those kinds of pathologies that can happen in marriage.
That is encouraging news for a family ministry organization that
does a lot in helping helping people navigate their marriages
in a godly way.
S1 (04:53):
Okay, so walking the walk on May 14th, a Wednesday morning,
May 14th, what does does walking the walk mean? I'm
listening to focus on the family this evening. I mean,
what does walking the walk look like on a Wednesday?
S3 (05:06):
It certainly can look like that. Um, what what we've surveyed,
what came out in the research was it's praying together.
It's it's reading the Bible together or separately. It's it's
being in the word. It's praying through, uh, circumstances, praying
(05:26):
to God about the things that both are going well
and things that are going a little challenging. It's it's
doing the actions that we're exhorted to in the Bible
to to live it out. That's the it's, you know,
the folks who run into a little bit more trouble
are the ones who maybe Sunday only and kind of
passive about the way that they engage their faith. So really,
(05:49):
what it looks like is doing those things that we
all know are, um, are critical to strengthening our faith. Uh,
but but sometimes I'll. I'll raise my hand. I get
busy sometimes, and and I set the wrong things aside. Um,
that's that's the key to it. So it's not listening
to focus on the family necessarily. It can be listening
(06:11):
to any sermons that can be listening to anything. It's
diving into the actions that strengthen your faith. That's the
key determiner.
S2 (06:19):
Yeah, because so much of Scripture really teaches us, obviously,
how to relate to God, but how to relate to
each other? I think of Galatians five, you know, the
fruit of the spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
I mean, if we actually practice this, how much better
(06:40):
would our marriages be?
S3 (06:42):
Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's the that was the the
result from this survey that that leapt out at us.
I mean, it's very rare when you do a survey
that one particular attribute leads in every category that you're assessing.
And every one of these 32 marriage segments, that's where
(07:03):
it leads to. And it's funny when I do interviews
on this that are video related, the sheet that I
have that has all of these 32 areas on it,
the type is so small and my eyes are so
old that I can't read it just even with glasses on.
So I have to pull out. And I'll admit it,
it's a little theatrical and it makes a good point.
(07:24):
In the video interview, I have to pull out a
big magnifying glass to read all of these 32 areas
where people scored themselves as, uh, as being higher than, uh,
certainly nominal Christians, certainly non-Christians, and even more than than
quote unquote, born again Christians. So you're absolutely right. And
and one of the other things that was fascinating about
(07:44):
it is that the top five areas that make a
marriage healthy. And I think when I say this, you'll
based on what we've already talked about, you'll see why
that's the case. So this is what people said are
the top five areas that make their marriage healthy. First
one is and this is an order. Trust one two
love for each other, three respect for each other for
(08:07):
sexual intimacy, and five listening to each other. If you
get all of those things right, if you do all
those things, if you lean into all of those things.
Doesn't it make sense that you're that you're any relationship,
but certainly your marriage is going to be healthy if
you're doing all of those things. And that was also
just a revelation to us that just doing those things and,
(08:30):
you know, people will say, the culture will say that
sexual intimacy should be, you know, that's number one. That's
where all the problems are. No, that's that's the, the,
the the fourth one. It's trust, love and respect that
are the top three determiners of a healthy marriage. And
that to us again was, was was groundbreaking and very encouraging.
S1 (08:51):
I'm going to ask you a question I feel very
uncomfortable asking. Oh, good. Why? Why does this matter? Marriage
is transactional. If. If I'm not happy, I'll just go
find someone else. If I. You know, why even get married?
I might as well just have a relationship with this person.
And I'll spend ten years with them and then go
find someone else. What? What does it matter in our
(09:13):
society today?
S3 (09:14):
Yeah, it's, uh. It still is, um, the best way
to to raise children. Um, and your kids, if your
marriage is healthy, your, uh, imparting that information to your kids,
having your, your children grow up in an environment in
which they feel loved and nurtured and, and guided is
going to be higher. And, um, you are going to, uh,
(09:40):
you're going to individually feel healthier, right? If your relationship
is strong, you're going to have a more rewarding life.
And that's one of the other measurements that we did
in this study was, um, was, uh, whether people felt
like their lives were thriving again, those who are convictional
Christians who are living their life and their faith out there,
(10:01):
living that thing out there, they reported again from the
horse's mouth. They reported they feel like their life is
thriving more than those who are on the other side
of that, who maybe aren't doing those things. And I
think all of us, right would would like our lives
to be thriving. The brand promise for focus on the
family for the last 20 years has been helping families
(10:23):
thrive in Christ. So to see this reflected in the
research shows us that we're, uh. To your point, Bridget,
at the outset, we've been around a long time, and
in 2027, it will be 50 years. Our goal is
to help families thrive in Christ. And when families do
thrive in Christ, um, there there's a lot more success
in everything that they do as a family, including first
(10:47):
and foremost as parents and as, uh, as as a
married couple.
S2 (10:51):
And those are important, uh, raising children. That marriage is
obviously the most important aspect there. Uh, but also having
a rewarding life. But also our marriages reflect Christ and
his relationship to the church. I mean, they're a testimony
to the watching world.
S3 (11:09):
Oh for sure. I mean, that's right. The more you
do that, the more the more you project healthiness in
your marriage, the more you're going to Attract and draw
people who will come to you and say, how are
you doing it, right? I mean, we all as, as believers,
should help each other out. And there are marriages in crisis.
(11:31):
There's no there's no doubt about that. Two, uh, 2
in 10, uh, of of all the people that we
surveyed found, uh, you know, there's some serious crisis in
their marriages again, convictional Christians, fewer of them than the
2 in 10 that are overall, those kinds of those
couples are the ones that people will go to ask
questions who when you put yourself out there and say, hey,
(11:53):
how are things going? You have sort of instant respect
if you are indeed if you if people see indeed
that you are walking the walk, that you are, um,
doing all these things that that make for the health
of your marriage, I think that that helps us help
others find the same, um, the same practices, the same
inspiration to live, uh, their marriages out healthily.
S1 (12:18):
What should churches with this information as knowledge as wisdom as.
As a guidance for us. What should churches be doing
then with that information to help those who are in
marriage relationships?
S3 (12:31):
Yeah. I mean, you know, praying together is a big one.
Studying the Bible to give us a big one. Uh,
churches all have most churches have some sort of small
group life group, uh, things, you know, really encourage, uh,
especially married couples to, to be part of those things, encourage,
encourage the congregation to do the things that we know
(12:53):
from this study lead to healthy marriages. Talk about praying together.
Give them programs in which they can pray together. Give them,
you know, a booklet about how to pray together. Lean
into those things. Equip the equip the folks in the
pews to do these things that maybe don't come naturally.
It's certainly from what we've discovered in the research. They
(13:15):
don't come as naturally as we like to think. Perhaps
as believers. Um, that my, my, my word to pastors
would be. And we're going to, you know, send this
when the report is ready. This is going to go
out to churches too, and we'll include some of that stuff.
Here's some things you can do to encourage your, uh,
your congregation to, uh, to become one of those, uh,
(13:39):
those convictional Christian couples that do find themselves on 32
areas of marriage that go across the board from individual
stuff to the way you interact with others, make you
realize you're in in the healthiest place. So that's, you know, encouraging,
encouraging your congregation to lean into their faith and to
(14:01):
and to act it out. I think that's the number
one thing that churches can do.
S2 (14:05):
Yeah, it's so interesting because we so often compartmentalize our lives.
It's like, okay, church is here, parenting is here, marriage
is here. But what this research is bearing out is
I actually know they all bleed together.
S3 (14:18):
Yeah. I mean, it's all it's all one ecosystem, right?
It's all one thing. And the more we make it
one ecosystem. This study has shown us the more that
we that we live that out holistically, the better off
we're going to be. Uh, in terms of how strong
our marriages are. And then the better off we're going
(14:40):
to be in terms of helping others. See, this is
how you walk that out to becoming mentor couples to
show people exactly how they can have the same thing
that you may have. That's that's the that's the, the health, um, generator. Right. Um,
building that flywheel of people who are in this convictional
Christian space and that's all of us can have a
(15:02):
role in doing that.
S1 (15:03):
Yeah. Your marriage is salt and light in a community
that's desperate for it. And you really can be evidence
of what Christ can do in the life of not
just an individual, but for a family. And I think
this research is pointing to the fact that we have
the opportunity to be witnesses for him through our marriages.
(15:23):
So that's really fascinating. Gary, thank you for your time today.
S3 (15:26):
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
You're listening to Moody Radio 89.3, and this is mornings
with Eric and Bridget.
S2 (00:08):
Well, there's our way and then there's God's way. A
lot of time in the way we do life and
the way we do relationships and marriage is no different.
And we're finding out that his way is better.
S1 (00:20):
Wow. Yeah. And not just in marriage, but in almost
any adventure. No. In every adventure we take on his
way is better. Absolutely. We we again, I said it
earlier today. In our pride and our arrogance, we think
we can deal with this on our own strength and power.
And that what? Heaven laughs at that, right? And then
(00:40):
we need to understand that his ways are much better
than our ways when it comes to parenting, when it
comes to that relationship with our spouse, when it comes
to our our job, when it comes to just keep
going down that list. Uh, we need to rely on
his understanding of things, because then then we have wisdom
(01:02):
in our own arrogance, we have confusion, but he gives
us wisdom when we ask for it, and he will
provide it for us in our marriage, relationships, in our.
And just keep going down that list.
S2 (01:12):
Yeah, of course, through his word. But then there are
also ministries that can come alongside us as husbands, as wives,
as mothers and fathers. And focus on the family has
been one for many decades, actually. And, uh, Gary Schneeberger
is with us right now talking about some research that
your ministry has done recently, because it's kind of taking
a look at the healthiest and happiest marriages. And I
(01:34):
guess if you just want to give the headline right
up front here, um, who's having those happy, healthy marriages?
S3 (01:41):
Uh, well, first of all, thanks for having me on. Uh,
I'm always excited to talk about this. And in fact,
the report itself, um, which we call the state of
the family marriage study, isn't really going to come out
until in the early fall. But I was so excited
and the team was so excited about one detail that
we found in particular, that I just started talking about
(02:02):
it over the last couple of months, because it's just
so exciting. And what that detail is, is we surveyed
3800 couples, American couples, um, about, um, their own self-assessments
of their marriage. So it's, it's first person thoughts about
how their marriages are going. And one of the things
(02:22):
we found on 32 marriage areas that indicate the health
of a marriage on every single one of those 32
data points, those 32 outcomes in marriage, folks who are
what the social scientists call convictional Christians. That means Christians
who don't just believe their faith, don't just internalize it,
(02:44):
but practice it on all 32 marriage areas, which range from, um, uh,
respecting each other, uh, friends and family aren't, aren't, uh,
causing problems in our marriage being encouraging, uh, to each other.
And 32 of those measurements, the number one On healthiest
(03:07):
folks as they assess themselves, are these convictional Christians who
are practicing their faith? That was too big. We're still
putting all the, you know, dotting the i's and crossing
the T's on all the research, but that one is
one that I've been talking about now for almost two months,
because it's just so astounding that if you lean into
your faith, if you practice your faith, if you read
the Bible, if you, uh, go to Bible study, if
(03:30):
you pray together, your marriage is going to be healthier.
And that was too good to hang on to until
everything is dotted and crossed.
S1 (03:38):
What about those that show up for church on a
weekly basis? And that's kind of the extent of it.
Did they show up within the research as having positive influence,
or was it just these that are the, you know,
those that are most committed, I guess?
S3 (03:54):
Yeah, those who are most committed are the ones who
say that they're healthiest in their marriages. There are what
the study calls born again Christians, right. Those are the
ones who show up, uh, most Sundays. There also are
nominal Christians, and nominal Christians. We also surveyed and those, uh,
those folks are the ones who say, I'm a Christian
and then really don't think about it much day to day,
(04:15):
week to week. Um, and then, of course, there's non-Christians.
So it's the convictional ones. And again, I'm not thrilled
with that term. The researchers aren't aren't thrilled with that term,
but that's what researchers have called it. So we're looking
for other things that we might be able to call it.
But what it means is people who who don't just
talk the talk but walk the walk, those who do
that have the healthiest marriages and they're least likely to
(04:39):
face crisis, which is which leads to divorce and all
of those kinds of pathologies that can happen in marriage.
That is encouraging news for a family ministry organization that
does a lot in helping helping people navigate their marriages
in a godly way.
S1 (04:53):
Okay, so walking the walk on May 14th, a Wednesday morning,
May 14th, what does does walking the walk mean? I'm
listening to focus on the family this evening. I mean,
what does walking the walk look like on a Wednesday?
S3 (05:06):
It certainly can look like that. Um, what what we've surveyed,
what came out in the research was it's praying together.
It's it's reading the Bible together or separately. It's it's
being in the word. It's praying through, uh, circumstances, praying
(05:26):
to God about the things that both are going well
and things that are going a little challenging. It's it's
doing the actions that we're exhorted to in the Bible
to to live it out. That's the it's, you know,
the folks who run into a little bit more trouble
are the ones who maybe Sunday only and kind of
passive about the way that they engage their faith. So really,
(05:49):
what it looks like is doing those things that we
all know are, um, are critical to strengthening our faith. Uh,
but but sometimes I'll. I'll raise my hand. I get
busy sometimes, and and I set the wrong things aside. Um,
that's that's the key to it. So it's not listening
to focus on the family necessarily. It can be listening
(06:11):
to any sermons that can be listening to anything. It's
diving into the actions that strengthen your faith. That's the
key determiner.
S2 (06:19):
Yeah, because so much of Scripture really teaches us, obviously,
how to relate to God, but how to relate to
each other? I think of Galatians five, you know, the
fruit of the spirit, which is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control.
I mean, if we actually practice this, how much better
(06:40):
would our marriages be?
S3 (06:42):
Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's the that was the the
result from this survey that that leapt out at us.
I mean, it's very rare when you do a survey
that one particular attribute leads in every category that you're assessing.
And every one of these 32 marriage segments, that's where
(07:03):
it leads to. And it's funny when I do interviews
on this that are video related, the sheet that I
have that has all of these 32 areas on it,
the type is so small and my eyes are so
old that I can't read it just even with glasses on.
So I have to pull out. And I'll admit it,
it's a little theatrical and it makes a good point.
(07:24):
In the video interview, I have to pull out a
big magnifying glass to read all of these 32 areas
where people scored themselves as, uh, as being higher than, uh,
certainly nominal Christians, certainly non-Christians, and even more than than
quote unquote, born again Christians. So you're absolutely right. And
and one of the other things that was fascinating about
(07:44):
it is that the top five areas that make a
marriage healthy. And I think when I say this, you'll
based on what we've already talked about, you'll see why
that's the case. So this is what people said are
the top five areas that make their marriage healthy. First
one is and this is an order. Trust one two
love for each other, three respect for each other for
(08:07):
sexual intimacy, and five listening to each other. If you
get all of those things right, if you do all
those things, if you lean into all of those things.
Doesn't it make sense that you're that you're any relationship,
but certainly your marriage is going to be healthy if
you're doing all of those things. And that was also
just a revelation to us that just doing those things and,
(08:30):
you know, people will say, the culture will say that
sexual intimacy should be, you know, that's number one. That's
where all the problems are. No, that's that's the, the,
the the fourth one. It's trust, love and respect that
are the top three determiners of a healthy marriage. And
that to us again was, was was groundbreaking and very encouraging.
S1 (08:51):
I'm going to ask you a question I feel very
uncomfortable asking. Oh, good. Why? Why does this matter? Marriage
is transactional. If. If I'm not happy, I'll just go
find someone else. If I. You know, why even get married?
I might as well just have a relationship with this person.
And I'll spend ten years with them and then go
find someone else. What? What does it matter in our
(09:13):
society today?
S3 (09:14):
Yeah, it's, uh. It still is, um, the best way
to to raise children. Um, and your kids, if your
marriage is healthy, your, uh, imparting that information to your kids,
having your, your children grow up in an environment in
which they feel loved and nurtured and, and guided is
going to be higher. And, um, you are going to, uh,
(09:40):
you're going to individually feel healthier, right? If your relationship
is strong, you're going to have a more rewarding life.
And that's one of the other measurements that we did
in this study was, um, was, uh, whether people felt
like their lives were thriving again, those who are convictional
Christians who are living their life and their faith out there,
(10:01):
living that thing out there, they reported again from the
horse's mouth. They reported they feel like their life is
thriving more than those who are on the other side
of that, who maybe aren't doing those things. And I
think all of us, right would would like our lives
to be thriving. The brand promise for focus on the
family for the last 20 years has been helping families
(10:23):
thrive in Christ. So to see this reflected in the
research shows us that we're, uh. To your point, Bridget,
at the outset, we've been around a long time, and
in 2027, it will be 50 years. Our goal is
to help families thrive in Christ. And when families do
thrive in Christ, um, there there's a lot more success
in everything that they do as a family, including first
(10:47):
and foremost as parents and as, uh, as as a
married couple.
S2 (10:51):
And those are important, uh, raising children. That marriage is
obviously the most important aspect there. Uh, but also having
a rewarding life. But also our marriages reflect Christ and
his relationship to the church. I mean, they're a testimony
to the watching world.
S3 (11:09):
Oh for sure. I mean, that's right. The more you
do that, the more the more you project healthiness in
your marriage, the more you're going to Attract and draw
people who will come to you and say, how are
you doing it, right? I mean, we all as, as believers,
should help each other out. And there are marriages in crisis.
(11:31):
There's no there's no doubt about that. Two, uh, 2
in 10, uh, of of all the people that we
surveyed found, uh, you know, there's some serious crisis in
their marriages again, convictional Christians, fewer of them than the
2 in 10 that are overall, those kinds of those
couples are the ones that people will go to ask
questions who when you put yourself out there and say, hey,
(11:53):
how are things going? You have sort of instant respect
if you are indeed if you if people see indeed
that you are walking the walk, that you are, um,
doing all these things that that make for the health
of your marriage, I think that that helps us help
others find the same, um, the same practices, the same
inspiration to live, uh, their marriages out healthily.
S1 (12:18):
What should churches with this information as knowledge as wisdom as.
As a guidance for us. What should churches be doing
then with that information to help those who are in
marriage relationships?
S3 (12:31):
Yeah. I mean, you know, praying together is a big one.
Studying the Bible to give us a big one. Uh,
churches all have most churches have some sort of small
group life group, uh, things, you know, really encourage, uh,
especially married couples to, to be part of those things, encourage,
encourage the congregation to do the things that we know
(12:53):
from this study lead to healthy marriages. Talk about praying together.
Give them programs in which they can pray together. Give them,
you know, a booklet about how to pray together. Lean
into those things. Equip the equip the folks in the
pews to do these things that maybe don't come naturally.
It's certainly from what we've discovered in the research. They
(13:15):
don't come as naturally as we like to think. Perhaps
as believers. Um, that my, my, my word to pastors
would be. And we're going to, you know, send this
when the report is ready. This is going to go
out to churches too, and we'll include some of that stuff.
Here's some things you can do to encourage your, uh,
your congregation to, uh, to become one of those, uh,
(13:39):
those convictional Christian couples that do find themselves on 32
areas of marriage that go across the board from individual
stuff to the way you interact with others, make you
realize you're in in the healthiest place. So that's, you know, encouraging,
encouraging your congregation to lean into their faith and to
(14:01):
and to act it out. I think that's the number
one thing that churches can do.
S2 (14:05):
Yeah, it's so interesting because we so often compartmentalize our lives.
It's like, okay, church is here, parenting is here, marriage
is here. But what this research is bearing out is
I actually know they all bleed together.
S3 (14:18):
Yeah. I mean, it's all it's all one ecosystem, right?
It's all one thing. And the more we make it
one ecosystem. This study has shown us the more that
we that we live that out holistically, the better off
we're going to be. Uh, in terms of how strong
our marriages are. And then the better off we're going
(14:40):
to be in terms of helping others. See, this is
how you walk that out to becoming mentor couples to
show people exactly how they can have the same thing
that you may have. That's that's the that's the, the health, um, generator. Right. Um,
building that flywheel of people who are in this convictional
Christian space and that's all of us can have a
(15:02):
role in doing that.
S1 (15:03):
Yeah. Your marriage is salt and light in a community
that's desperate for it. And you really can be evidence
of what Christ can do in the life of not
just an individual, but for a family. And I think
this research is pointing to the fact that we have
the opportunity to be witnesses for him through our marriages.
(15:23):
So that's really fascinating. Gary, thank you for your time today.
S3 (15:26):
My pleasure. Thanks for having me.
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