May 12, 2025 • 18 mins
You know Dr. Michael Rydelnik as Academic Dean and Professor of Bible and Jewish Studies at Moody Bible Institute. He also serves as host of Open Line, heard Saturdays on Moody Radio. Michael is retiring from his current role at Moody Bible Institute. But, he'll still teach, and still host. He says his retirement ceremony was more of a 'change of hat' ceremony. Dr. Joe Stowell shared some life wisdom with Michael for when you reach a 'certain age' and how you should approach this season of life.
Dr. Rydelnik is hosting a couple of cruises this fall. CLICK HERE for more information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:02):
Welcome to Open Line Chat. Doctor Michael Riddell is with
us and we are taking your questions right now at
423629 8900. You can call or text them in and
Doctor Riddell. Nick, let's before we even jump to the questions,
can you just give us a quick update on the trip?
That's the the sailing trip in the Caribbean right, that
(00:26):
you are working on.
S2 (00:27):
Remember, if you want to get out of, uh, cold
weather here in the even in Chattanooga, it gets a
little cold in December, doesn't it?
S1 (00:35):
Yeah.
S2 (00:36):
Yeah. So, uh, we're we're going to go to the
Caribbean and we're going to, uh, start in Barbados and
visit various islands. But in the morning, we'll have before
we leave the ship, before anyone leaves the ship, we'll
have worship and study. And then, uh, we'll also come
back before dinner. Then we'll have worship and study in
(00:59):
the book of Daniel. What we're doing is talking about
how to hold our ground in a in a pressure
packed world. That's what the Book of Daniel is about.
S3 (01:08):
Oh that's beautiful. So that's a trip in the Caribbean.
But there's also one in Israel. Aren't you going to Israel?
You're just like traveling the world.
S2 (01:16):
Yeah. Two trips in the fall. Uh, well, fall semester
1st December is the one we just talked about, December 7th. Uh,
but then, uh, we're going to go to Israel in September. Uh,
a lot of people are like, you're going to go
to Israel. Yes. Now's a great time to go to Israel. Uh,
it's safe. And not only is it safe, but it's
(01:37):
kind of empty. And it's a great time for people
to see the land, uh, and to show our solidarity with, uh,
what the Lord is. What our solidarity with the the
people the Lord has put there. So.
S3 (01:50):
Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that, Michael.
All that information said Michael's website. Uh, Michael Ridelink. Org and, uh,
we'll go ahead and link to that a little bit
later on today so people can get right there and
all the information that they need. And since it's a
good time to go to Israel, it's also a good
time to get your question in with Michael, because we've
got a short queue here. So if you've got a
question for Michael, text it in at 423629 8900.
S1 (02:13):
Okay. So we're going to get started with a question. Uh, doctor,
I think that Tom and I really don't understand at all.
So we hope that you do. But one of our
listeners is reading The Exodus by Richard Elliott Friedman, and
they're not sure if you're familiar with it or the author.
S2 (02:30):
Start again. Start again.
S1 (02:32):
Uh, the Exodus by Richard Elliott Friedman.
S2 (02:36):
Yeah. Uh, Friedman. Sure. He's a Jewish university professor.
S1 (02:41):
Okay, good. Okay.
S2 (02:43):
I'm not familiar with the book, but I know who
he is.
S1 (02:45):
Okay, so they were wondering if it was a good resource.
And then they went on, though, to say, do you
agree with his teaching in terms of the exodus being
only a small group of Levites versus the whole nation
of Israel? And so that's the one question. And then
can you explain his teachings that the authors of the
Bible were either from J, E, D or P group.
(03:08):
Are you familiar with this?
S2 (03:10):
Yeah, I'm familiar with Jedp. Okay. Okay, good. Well, first
of all, let me just say something about university professors.
One of the key things, you know, as a as
a Bible teacher at a school like Moody and having
led congregations, my goal as a Bible teacher is to
stay faithful and not to be innovative, not to come
(03:34):
up with something new. When you teach Bible at a university.
Your goal is to come up with something new that
no one's ever heard of. And, uh, and so that
that would distinguish me from Doctor Friedman. Secondly, the I
don't believe that the text of the Bible tells us
(03:55):
that only a few priests left Egypt. It was the
whole nation of Israel. So therefore, I'm going to go
with the Bible rather than Friedman. Secondly, Uh. Thirdly, uh,
I think it's important to understand that there's this thing
that developed in the 19th century called the documentary hypothesis,
and then the new documentary hypothesis, which, uh, sees the, uh,
(04:18):
the Bible as sort of a patchwork quilt, uh, with uh,
sections written by J. They named it J for yahwist
or j a w h I s uh t where
the predominant name is the name Yahweh. And then there's
the e, where the prominent name for God is Elohim.
(04:41):
And then, uh, there's the Deuteronomist who who wrote a
secondary version of the Torah, mostly in the book of Deuteronomy.
And then there was the Priestly Code, where you wear
the priestly parts are dropped in, and they see the Bible,
the Torah, the law of Moses being patchworked together over
(05:04):
a period of time, sewn together so that finally by
the sixth century BC, it was complete, but not written
by Moses at all. That's the documentary hypothesis. Hypothesis or
the jedp. It's something that critical scholars of the Bible
(05:25):
have embraced, but certainly not someone who believes what the
Bible says about itself. So, uh, you know, it's something
I don't agree with. And of course, as a university professor, uh,
Friedman would embrace that, but not something that that I
consider accurate. Now, I think it's really interesting, uh, that, uh,
(05:50):
let's see if I can remember his name. Uh, the
Documentary Hypothesis by Immanuel Cassuto is a book that people
can get. It's a simple little book. Uh Cassuto was
a professor. An Orthodox Jewish professor at Hebrew University who
escaped the Holocaust from Italy and and came to reside
(06:11):
in Israel and gave lectures showing how foolish and how
contrary to the text. But not only that, contrary to
logic and and all the evidence we have, the documentary
hypothesis is. And so Cassuto wrote this book called The
Documentary Hypothesis. It's a little book. It's consists of writing
out his six lectures that he did on the documentary hypothesis.
(06:36):
And when I teach Torah or Pentateuch at Moody Bible Institute,
we always start by reading Cassuto, uh, who who eviscerates
the documentary hypothesis based on literary design of the Torah. And, uh,
so I would encourage anyone who has been confused or
(06:56):
heard about the documentary hypothesis and wonders if it's right,
if you have any kind of interest in it, read
cassuto and you'll never think that the documentary hypothesis has
any legitimacy at all.
S3 (07:08):
So or go to Moody Bible Institute and take Doctor
Ardelyx class.
S2 (07:12):
Yeah.
S1 (07:15):
Online.
S3 (07:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Or online. So? So, Michael, it's just interesting
to me how, uh, yes, I know you've got to
get published. And in order to get published, you have
to have this different idea. And those are the ideas
that seem to get all of the press, if I
can call it that, rather than the truth of Scripture. Now, uh,
Bible is like the number one selling book in all
(07:35):
of history, but I don't think it's climbing up the
charts as far as something that people read regularly.
S2 (07:41):
Mhm. Well, it's one of the things I will say
that we've seen a 20% increase recently in purchase of Bibles. Uh,
young people are becoming interested in reading the scriptures again.
And so, uh, people should read it. And one of
the things that I find is that, uh, students, young
people will get the Bible and start reading it and
be confused and wonder about it. And so they go
(08:04):
right to Google or to YouTube and try to get answers. Uh,
I think it'd be better to go get the moody
Bible commentary you'd see in the introduction to the Book
of Genesis, a critique of the documentary hypothesis. Uh, because
(08:24):
that's the first book of the Torah. So, uh, I
think it's great that people are interested in the Bible.
I think it's good to get good resources to help
you understand it. If people don't understand it by reading
it by themselves. Um, but let's let's celebrate the fact
that young people are wanting to read the scriptures more
and more.
S1 (08:43):
Yeah, that is something to celebrate. That's awesome.
S3 (08:46):
And, Michael, there have been some changes afoot in your
life now. Um, some people call it retirement. Other people
call it a change of hat ceremony. What say thee,
my brother?
S2 (08:57):
Well, it was really a change of hat ceremony for me.
Although I'm retiring from the educational wing of Moody Bible Institute. Uh, no.
S4 (09:06):
Longer teaching anymore when you're retiring from that.
S2 (09:09):
Course adjunct next fall. But I no longer will be Dean. Uh,
and I won't teach a full load. I'll just teach
one course just to help out, because we have a
professor going on sabbatical in the fall, and he usually
teaches Hebrews, the book of Hebrews. And so I'll be
teaching it for him in the fall. Uh, however, I'm
predominantly going to continue on radio, but also doing some
(09:32):
other service representing the school, the institute, uh, at various
events and speaking at conferences for Moody and doing things
like that. Uh, but, uh, and then being on radio,
not just with Open Line, but on Chris Fabry, on
Janet Parshall on programs like this. Um, and, uh, this is, uh,
(09:54):
I'm as Eva says, my wife Eva says you're just
reducing to a full time job, but, uh.
S4 (10:02):
And only one. Right?
S2 (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, just one full time job instead of multiple, uh,
I was teaching more than I should. Most deans don't teach,
and I was teaching two courses per semester most of
the time. And then, uh, I was also being dean
and representing the school and doing things like that.
S1 (10:22):
Radio.
S2 (10:23):
Doing radio. So he was like, kind of happy that
I'm going. And also, I haven't had time to write
for Moody Publishers since I became Dean. I've got several
book contracts. I'll be continuing to do that. So officially
retiring from education, but not really retiring from serving the
Lord or the Kingdom, or from the the little slice
(10:44):
of the kingdom that Moody Bible Institute represents.
S4 (10:47):
Okay, I've got a.
S3 (10:48):
Question for you in this season of life, I remember
you telling us that you got some really great advice
from a trusted friend who just happens to be a
previous president of the Moody Bible Institute. I'm wondering if
you would just share that advice because I thought it
was golden.
S2 (11:03):
Yeah, I was with Joe Stoll, former president, and I
was with Doctor Jobe, uh, our current president, Mark Jobe.
So I was with Joe and Mark and we were in, uh,
we were traveling in September, this past September. And, uh,
(11:23):
Joe said to me, so, Michael, do you like being Dean?
And I said, yeah, I do like being Dean. There
are pluses and minuses, but I like it overall. And
he said, here's another question. Do you love being Dean?
And I said, well, I can't say I love it
every time we have to work on budgets. And there's
(11:43):
a lot of administrative details that I have to do
that I would prefer not to. And I was talking
to him about that. And then he said, when we
come to a certain age, he says, and you've reached it.
Only do what you love. And I thought, that's great advice.
And it really got me thinking about wanting to move
(12:06):
away from being Dean. I'll still teach a course. You know,
I love teaching, but I love radio. Uh, I love
speaking at conferences and things like that. And so for
that reason, I'm only and I love writing. And so
I'm going to do what I love. Uh, and, uh,
hopefully that's a, that's a gift the Lord has given
(12:29):
me the opportunity to do. Uh, now that I've reached,
as Joe Stowell says, a certain age.
S4 (12:36):
Okay.
S3 (12:37):
So do you have to achieve the certain age in
order to just really focus on what you love? Or
is that kind of like a a key? Maybe that
could unlock something within somebody who's, who's running around doing
all the likes, but not really getting down to what
they love.
S2 (12:51):
You know, when when I was serving many years ago with, uh,
Chosen People Ministries. I, I wasn't using my teaching gift
as much as I ought to, because I was in leadership,
and I took a course in my doctoral program where
(13:12):
professor talked about it wasn't really about the course, but
he talked about finding the golden thread of your life. Uh,
and at least 50% of your job, he said, should
be in your area of giftedness. And then he said 25%
should be your silver thread, maybe secondary gifting or things
that you can do well. Um, and then the other 25%
(13:36):
might be things that, that you actually just need to
do as part of your job. And I thought I
was only doing 25% in my giftedness. Uh, and things
that I like doing. And so I that's and I
started praying, Lord, show me what I should do. And
just then Moody Bible Institute contacted me about becoming the
Jewish studies professor, and that would put me quite a
(13:59):
bit in my area. My golden thread, so to speak,
using my teaching gift. The the the lesson I would
say is I think mostly we have to do we
should find a job with our golden thread. At least
half of it is our golden thread, 25% our silver thread.
And everyone's going to have to do things that we
(14:21):
don't like. Uh, and so I would say find a
job that you really like. And that's the, the merger
of the golden and silver threads like that. But don't
expect that there's going to be a job where you
won't have to do something you don't like.
S1 (14:38):
Yeah.
S2 (14:39):
That's just not possible. Uh, but when you reach a
certain age, you can focus entirely on the golden thread.
S4 (14:46):
Wait a.
S3 (14:46):
Second. Why are you looking at Toby when you said that?
I'm just wondering if that was a pointed statement.
S4 (14:51):
No, no.
S2 (14:51):
I'm about to put on.
S1 (14:52):
Your second pair of glasses.
S2 (14:54):
It's you. You've reached that certain age.
S4 (14:56):
Oh, yeah. You. Yeah.
S3 (14:57):
0000, yeah.
S4 (14:59):
I was looking.
S3 (15:00):
Cross-eyed. Yeah. So. Oh, yeah. The camera reverses things. I
see how that is.
S4 (15:05):
So go ahead Michael.
S2 (15:08):
What I'm saying that I think finding I think we
should find a position that we like. And if we
could find one we love even better. But there's always
going to be things in our work that we don't
necessarily like doing. Um, but I think there comes a
point where we, where we reach, reach a certain age
(15:29):
that we can emphasize more and more the golden thread.
S4 (15:33):
Mhm.
S3 (15:33):
Yeah, I love that. If I could just like drill
down just one more second because I was thinking about,
you know, where I'm at in life and what advice
Doctor Stowell gave to you. And you shared that with,
with um, with us uh, just a couple of weeks ago.
And I've been chewing on that. And I always used
to say that, find something that you love and you'll
never work a day in your life. My father used
to say that. But I'm getting to this point where
(15:55):
I'm not thinking that because I'm doing all the different
things that I love, but all the things that I
love are starting to feel a lot like work. So
I'm thinking that it's better to do the things that
you like, that you have gifting in, and do the
things that you love to regenerate your spirit moving forward.
I'm just wondering if if that's, um, kind of that
same thought process.
S2 (16:17):
Well, it could be, I think always we should work
in our area of giftedness now. I mean, spiritual giftedness.
S4 (16:23):
Yes.
S2 (16:24):
But I find that when we we still have to
work in our area of giftedness, but it's a whole
lot easier. So, for example, I can work on budgets.
I know how to read an Excel spreadsheet. I know
how to do that. But it's not. Administration is not
my area of giftedness, but, uh, teaching and leadership, which
(16:45):
is a spiritual gift. That is my area of giftedness.
And so I you know, I was in some respects
using two of my gifts, um, as Dean, but there
was a whole lot more that was not in my
area of giftedness, which is why it was limited. So
I would say that in our lives, I think we
(17:07):
need to, yes, work at what we get a combination
of things. Um, but there's never going to be a job, Tom.
That that or a position that we do where we
won't have to do something that is not in our
area of giftedness. We have to I think Timothy, for example,
(17:28):
to Paul, Timothy was not gifted in evangelism, but Paul
told them, do the work of an evangelist.
S4 (17:35):
Mhm.
S2 (17:35):
And so, uh, in many ways we have to do
the work that God has called us to do, and
that may include things that we're not in love with. Now,
why can I say I will only do what I love?
I've reached that certain age where I don't need the, uh,
I can I can work, uh, without getting the benefits
(17:57):
of a health plan, because I'm a certain age where
I can get one from the government.
S4 (18:03):
Okay?
S2 (18:04):
As you understand. So I can be a little bit
more selective about doing the things I love.
S3 (18:09):
I think he was looking at you at that on
that one. Michael, thank you so much for just sharing
life wisdom with us here on mornings with Tom and Toby.
Welcome to Open Line Chat. Doctor Michael Riddell is with
us and we are taking your questions right now at
423629 8900. You can call or text them in and
Doctor Riddell. Nick, let's before we even jump to the questions,
can you just give us a quick update on the trip?
That's the the sailing trip in the Caribbean right, that
(00:26):
you are working on.
S2 (00:27):
Remember, if you want to get out of, uh, cold
weather here in the even in Chattanooga, it gets a
little cold in December, doesn't it?
S1 (00:35):
Yeah.
S2 (00:36):
Yeah. So, uh, we're we're going to go to the
Caribbean and we're going to, uh, start in Barbados and
visit various islands. But in the morning, we'll have before
we leave the ship, before anyone leaves the ship, we'll
have worship and study. And then, uh, we'll also come
back before dinner. Then we'll have worship and study in
(00:59):
the book of Daniel. What we're doing is talking about
how to hold our ground in a in a pressure
packed world. That's what the Book of Daniel is about.
S3 (01:08):
Oh that's beautiful. So that's a trip in the Caribbean.
But there's also one in Israel. Aren't you going to Israel?
You're just like traveling the world.
S2 (01:16):
Yeah. Two trips in the fall. Uh, well, fall semester
1st December is the one we just talked about, December 7th. Uh,
but then, uh, we're going to go to Israel in September. Uh,
a lot of people are like, you're going to go
to Israel. Yes. Now's a great time to go to Israel. Uh,
it's safe. And not only is it safe, but it's
(01:37):
kind of empty. And it's a great time for people
to see the land, uh, and to show our solidarity with, uh,
what the Lord is. What our solidarity with the the
people the Lord has put there. So.
S3 (01:50):
Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for sharing that, Michael.
All that information said Michael's website. Uh, Michael Ridelink. Org and, uh,
we'll go ahead and link to that a little bit
later on today so people can get right there and
all the information that they need. And since it's a
good time to go to Israel, it's also a good
time to get your question in with Michael, because we've
got a short queue here. So if you've got a
question for Michael, text it in at 423629 8900.
S1 (02:13):
Okay. So we're going to get started with a question. Uh, doctor,
I think that Tom and I really don't understand at all.
So we hope that you do. But one of our
listeners is reading The Exodus by Richard Elliott Friedman, and
they're not sure if you're familiar with it or the author.
S2 (02:30):
Start again. Start again.
S1 (02:32):
Uh, the Exodus by Richard Elliott Friedman.
S2 (02:36):
Yeah. Uh, Friedman. Sure. He's a Jewish university professor.
S1 (02:41):
Okay, good. Okay.
S2 (02:43):
I'm not familiar with the book, but I know who
he is.
S1 (02:45):
Okay, so they were wondering if it was a good resource.
And then they went on, though, to say, do you
agree with his teaching in terms of the exodus being
only a small group of Levites versus the whole nation
of Israel? And so that's the one question. And then
can you explain his teachings that the authors of the
Bible were either from J, E, D or P group.
(03:08):
Are you familiar with this?
S2 (03:10):
Yeah, I'm familiar with Jedp. Okay. Okay, good. Well, first
of all, let me just say something about university professors.
One of the key things, you know, as a as
a Bible teacher at a school like Moody and having
led congregations, my goal as a Bible teacher is to
stay faithful and not to be innovative, not to come
(03:34):
up with something new. When you teach Bible at a university.
Your goal is to come up with something new that
no one's ever heard of. And, uh, and so that
that would distinguish me from Doctor Friedman. Secondly, the I
don't believe that the text of the Bible tells us
(03:55):
that only a few priests left Egypt. It was the
whole nation of Israel. So therefore, I'm going to go
with the Bible rather than Friedman. Secondly, Uh. Thirdly, uh,
I think it's important to understand that there's this thing
that developed in the 19th century called the documentary hypothesis,
and then the new documentary hypothesis, which, uh, sees the, uh,
(04:18):
the Bible as sort of a patchwork quilt, uh, with uh,
sections written by J. They named it J for yahwist
or j a w h I s uh t where
the predominant name is the name Yahweh. And then there's
the e, where the prominent name for God is Elohim.
(04:41):
And then, uh, there's the Deuteronomist who who wrote a
secondary version of the Torah, mostly in the book of Deuteronomy.
And then there was the Priestly Code, where you wear
the priestly parts are dropped in, and they see the Bible,
the Torah, the law of Moses being patchworked together over
(05:04):
a period of time, sewn together so that finally by
the sixth century BC, it was complete, but not written
by Moses at all. That's the documentary hypothesis. Hypothesis or
the jedp. It's something that critical scholars of the Bible
(05:25):
have embraced, but certainly not someone who believes what the
Bible says about itself. So, uh, you know, it's something
I don't agree with. And of course, as a university professor, uh,
Friedman would embrace that, but not something that that I
consider accurate. Now, I think it's really interesting, uh, that, uh,
(05:50):
let's see if I can remember his name. Uh, the
Documentary Hypothesis by Immanuel Cassuto is a book that people
can get. It's a simple little book. Uh Cassuto was
a professor. An Orthodox Jewish professor at Hebrew University who
escaped the Holocaust from Italy and and came to reside
(06:11):
in Israel and gave lectures showing how foolish and how
contrary to the text. But not only that, contrary to
logic and and all the evidence we have, the documentary
hypothesis is. And so Cassuto wrote this book called The
Documentary Hypothesis. It's a little book. It's consists of writing
out his six lectures that he did on the documentary hypothesis.
(06:36):
And when I teach Torah or Pentateuch at Moody Bible Institute,
we always start by reading Cassuto, uh, who who eviscerates
the documentary hypothesis based on literary design of the Torah. And, uh,
so I would encourage anyone who has been confused or
(06:56):
heard about the documentary hypothesis and wonders if it's right,
if you have any kind of interest in it, read
cassuto and you'll never think that the documentary hypothesis has
any legitimacy at all.
S3 (07:08):
So or go to Moody Bible Institute and take Doctor
Ardelyx class.
S2 (07:12):
Yeah.
S1 (07:15):
Online.
S3 (07:15):
Yeah. Yeah. Or online. So? So, Michael, it's just interesting
to me how, uh, yes, I know you've got to
get published. And in order to get published, you have
to have this different idea. And those are the ideas
that seem to get all of the press, if I
can call it that, rather than the truth of Scripture. Now, uh,
Bible is like the number one selling book in all
(07:35):
of history, but I don't think it's climbing up the
charts as far as something that people read regularly.
S2 (07:41):
Mhm. Well, it's one of the things I will say
that we've seen a 20% increase recently in purchase of Bibles. Uh,
young people are becoming interested in reading the scriptures again.
And so, uh, people should read it. And one of
the things that I find is that, uh, students, young
people will get the Bible and start reading it and
be confused and wonder about it. And so they go
(08:04):
right to Google or to YouTube and try to get answers. Uh,
I think it'd be better to go get the moody
Bible commentary you'd see in the introduction to the Book
of Genesis, a critique of the documentary hypothesis. Uh, because
(08:24):
that's the first book of the Torah. So, uh, I
think it's great that people are interested in the Bible.
I think it's good to get good resources to help
you understand it. If people don't understand it by reading
it by themselves. Um, but let's let's celebrate the fact
that young people are wanting to read the scriptures more
and more.
S1 (08:43):
Yeah, that is something to celebrate. That's awesome.
S3 (08:46):
And, Michael, there have been some changes afoot in your
life now. Um, some people call it retirement. Other people
call it a change of hat ceremony. What say thee,
my brother?
S2 (08:57):
Well, it was really a change of hat ceremony for me.
Although I'm retiring from the educational wing of Moody Bible Institute. Uh, no.
S4 (09:06):
Longer teaching anymore when you're retiring from that.
S2 (09:09):
Course adjunct next fall. But I no longer will be Dean. Uh,
and I won't teach a full load. I'll just teach
one course just to help out, because we have a
professor going on sabbatical in the fall, and he usually
teaches Hebrews, the book of Hebrews. And so I'll be
teaching it for him in the fall. Uh, however, I'm
predominantly going to continue on radio, but also doing some
(09:32):
other service representing the school, the institute, uh, at various
events and speaking at conferences for Moody and doing things
like that. Uh, but, uh, and then being on radio,
not just with Open Line, but on Chris Fabry, on
Janet Parshall on programs like this. Um, and, uh, this is, uh,
(09:54):
I'm as Eva says, my wife Eva says you're just
reducing to a full time job, but, uh.
S4 (10:02):
And only one. Right?
S2 (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, just one full time job instead of multiple, uh,
I was teaching more than I should. Most deans don't teach,
and I was teaching two courses per semester most of
the time. And then, uh, I was also being dean
and representing the school and doing things like that.
S1 (10:22):
Radio.
S2 (10:23):
Doing radio. So he was like, kind of happy that
I'm going. And also, I haven't had time to write
for Moody Publishers since I became Dean. I've got several
book contracts. I'll be continuing to do that. So officially
retiring from education, but not really retiring from serving the
Lord or the Kingdom, or from the the little slice
(10:44):
of the kingdom that Moody Bible Institute represents.
S4 (10:47):
Okay, I've got a.
S3 (10:48):
Question for you in this season of life, I remember
you telling us that you got some really great advice
from a trusted friend who just happens to be a
previous president of the Moody Bible Institute. I'm wondering if
you would just share that advice because I thought it
was golden.
S2 (11:03):
Yeah, I was with Joe Stoll, former president, and I
was with Doctor Jobe, uh, our current president, Mark Jobe.
So I was with Joe and Mark and we were in, uh,
we were traveling in September, this past September. And, uh,
(11:23):
Joe said to me, so, Michael, do you like being Dean?
And I said, yeah, I do like being Dean. There
are pluses and minuses, but I like it overall. And
he said, here's another question. Do you love being Dean?
And I said, well, I can't say I love it
every time we have to work on budgets. And there's
(11:43):
a lot of administrative details that I have to do
that I would prefer not to. And I was talking
to him about that. And then he said, when we
come to a certain age, he says, and you've reached it.
Only do what you love. And I thought, that's great advice.
And it really got me thinking about wanting to move
(12:06):
away from being Dean. I'll still teach a course. You know,
I love teaching, but I love radio. Uh, I love
speaking at conferences and things like that. And so for
that reason, I'm only and I love writing. And so
I'm going to do what I love. Uh, and, uh,
hopefully that's a, that's a gift the Lord has given
(12:29):
me the opportunity to do. Uh, now that I've reached,
as Joe Stowell says, a certain age.
S4 (12:36):
Okay.
S3 (12:37):
So do you have to achieve the certain age in
order to just really focus on what you love? Or
is that kind of like a a key? Maybe that
could unlock something within somebody who's, who's running around doing
all the likes, but not really getting down to what
they love.
S2 (12:51):
You know, when when I was serving many years ago with, uh,
Chosen People Ministries. I, I wasn't using my teaching gift
as much as I ought to, because I was in leadership,
and I took a course in my doctoral program where
(13:12):
professor talked about it wasn't really about the course, but
he talked about finding the golden thread of your life. Uh,
and at least 50% of your job, he said, should
be in your area of giftedness. And then he said 25%
should be your silver thread, maybe secondary gifting or things
that you can do well. Um, and then the other 25%
(13:36):
might be things that, that you actually just need to
do as part of your job. And I thought I
was only doing 25% in my giftedness. Uh, and things
that I like doing. And so I that's and I
started praying, Lord, show me what I should do. And
just then Moody Bible Institute contacted me about becoming the
Jewish studies professor, and that would put me quite a
(13:59):
bit in my area. My golden thread, so to speak,
using my teaching gift. The the the lesson I would
say is I think mostly we have to do we
should find a job with our golden thread. At least
half of it is our golden thread, 25% our silver thread.
And everyone's going to have to do things that we
(14:21):
don't like. Uh, and so I would say find a
job that you really like. And that's the, the merger
of the golden and silver threads like that. But don't
expect that there's going to be a job where you
won't have to do something you don't like.
S1 (14:38):
Yeah.
S2 (14:39):
That's just not possible. Uh, but when you reach a
certain age, you can focus entirely on the golden thread.
S4 (14:46):
Wait a.
S3 (14:46):
Second. Why are you looking at Toby when you said that?
I'm just wondering if that was a pointed statement.
S4 (14:51):
No, no.
S2 (14:51):
I'm about to put on.
S1 (14:52):
Your second pair of glasses.
S2 (14:54):
It's you. You've reached that certain age.
S4 (14:56):
Oh, yeah. You. Yeah.
S3 (14:57):
0000, yeah.
S4 (14:59):
I was looking.
S3 (15:00):
Cross-eyed. Yeah. So. Oh, yeah. The camera reverses things. I
see how that is.
S4 (15:05):
So go ahead Michael.
S2 (15:08):
What I'm saying that I think finding I think we
should find a position that we like. And if we
could find one we love even better. But there's always
going to be things in our work that we don't
necessarily like doing. Um, but I think there comes a
point where we, where we reach, reach a certain age
(15:29):
that we can emphasize more and more the golden thread.
S4 (15:33):
Mhm.
S3 (15:33):
Yeah, I love that. If I could just like drill
down just one more second because I was thinking about,
you know, where I'm at in life and what advice
Doctor Stowell gave to you. And you shared that with,
with um, with us uh, just a couple of weeks ago.
And I've been chewing on that. And I always used
to say that, find something that you love and you'll
never work a day in your life. My father used
to say that. But I'm getting to this point where
(15:55):
I'm not thinking that because I'm doing all the different
things that I love, but all the things that I
love are starting to feel a lot like work. So
I'm thinking that it's better to do the things that
you like, that you have gifting in, and do the
things that you love to regenerate your spirit moving forward.
I'm just wondering if if that's, um, kind of that
same thought process.
S2 (16:17):
Well, it could be, I think always we should work
in our area of giftedness now. I mean, spiritual giftedness.
S4 (16:23):
Yes.
S2 (16:24):
But I find that when we we still have to
work in our area of giftedness, but it's a whole
lot easier. So, for example, I can work on budgets.
I know how to read an Excel spreadsheet. I know
how to do that. But it's not. Administration is not
my area of giftedness, but, uh, teaching and leadership, which
(16:45):
is a spiritual gift. That is my area of giftedness.
And so I you know, I was in some respects
using two of my gifts, um, as Dean, but there
was a whole lot more that was not in my
area of giftedness, which is why it was limited. So
I would say that in our lives, I think we
(17:07):
need to, yes, work at what we get a combination
of things. Um, but there's never going to be a job, Tom.
That that or a position that we do where we
won't have to do something that is not in our
area of giftedness. We have to I think Timothy, for example,
(17:28):
to Paul, Timothy was not gifted in evangelism, but Paul
told them, do the work of an evangelist.
S4 (17:35):
Mhm.
S2 (17:35):
And so, uh, in many ways we have to do
the work that God has called us to do, and
that may include things that we're not in love with. Now,
why can I say I will only do what I love?
I've reached that certain age where I don't need the, uh,
I can I can work, uh, without getting the benefits
(17:57):
of a health plan, because I'm a certain age where
I can get one from the government.
S4 (18:03):
Okay?
S2 (18:04):
As you understand. So I can be a little bit
more selective about doing the things I love.
S3 (18:09):
I think he was looking at you at that on
that one. Michael, thank you so much for just sharing
life wisdom with us here on mornings with Tom and Toby.
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