The Barre Star (Siri NORDHEJM, Z&B Fitness and MYbarre Fitness)

I would wager that all of us have stepped foot into a gym or a fitness studio, even if it was to immediately step out again. But that's the point of today's episode with Siri Nordhejm, Co-Founder of Z&B Fitness and MYbarre Fitness. What is it about fitness establishments that gets you passed that line, and what gets you coming back? And is it the same in China as in other places?

 

As with all episodes of Mosaic of China, we discuss not only what the guest does, but who the guest is. So tune in to today's show to find out how someone finds themselves becoming a fitness entrepreneur in their early twenties, and finds the energy to stick with it for over a decade.

 

The episode also includes catch-up interviews with: Jo McFarland from Season 02 Episode 18 https://mosaicofchina.com/season-02-episode-18-jo-mcfarland and Jorge Luzio from Season 01 Episode 05 https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-05-jorge-luzio

 

Chapters

00:00 - Trailer & Intro

01:53 - Part 1

25:33 - Part 2

35:18 - Outro

39:40 - Catch-Up Interview [1]

45:43 - Catch-Up Interview [2]

 

Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at: https://mosaicofchina.com/season-03-episode-04-siri-nordhejm

 

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WeChat https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
[Trailer]SN: I mean, I've definitely seen people lift
weights, where they're not lifting weights.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
So today’s episode is about fitness. Andif you’re like me and you’re the kind
of person whose first instinct when walkingup to the reception area of a gym or a fitness

(00:28):
studio is to turn around and walk away again,then please don’t do so now. I promise that
today’s show will be fun both for fitnessfreaks and couch potatoes alike.
My guest today is Siri Nordhejm - or ‘SiriNordhejm’ if I’m pronouncing it correctly
- from Z&B Fitness and MyBarre Fitness. Imention that right up front in the intro for

(00:53):
two reasons. Firstly to apologise that I’msaying ‘Zed’ & B, because it does sound
better as ‘Zee’ & B, but as a Brit I justcan’t say it that way. And secondly, to
let you know that there’s a big announcementabout Siri and her status at Z&B, so please
listen out for that at the end of today’sepisode.

(01:14):
You will also hear, there is a part of therecording near the beginning of the interview
where we switch from audio to video. So asever, check out the YouTube version of the
show if you want to see the videos and graphicsthat I’ve included alongside the audio,
and you also have the option there to switchon the captions to follow along with the conversation.

(01:35):
I’m going to end the intro here. We havea slightly longer episode today, because there’s
not one but two catch-up recordings from previousguests at the end of today’s show. So let’s
get started. (And 1, and 2, and 1 and 2…)
[Part 1]OF: Hello Siri.

SN (01:54):
Hello. OF
“Hello” to you. Because the obvious thingis, you have a name which has now been usurped
by a certain artificial intelligence programme,which is something which you must hear all
the time.SN: All the time.

OF (02:09):
I’m gonna say “Hey,” and then I'm gonna just say something in between, and then
I'm gonna say “Siri.” Because if I sayit in one phrase, then people who are listening,
their phones are gonna react, aren't they?SN: Exactly. I had to turn it off on my phone,
for that exact reason.OF: Really?

SN (02:22):
Yes. I mean, I have heard so many jokes about my name, it’s insane. But it's funny
because when I was growing up, nobody knewmy name. Like, nobody has this name in Denmark.
There’s another one which is ‘Sigrid’…OF: Yeah.
… Which is similar
people would go like “What?” Like, “Sayit again? What? What's your name?” They

(02:42):
didn't get it, right. I always had to spellit, even though its so simple. So growing
up, I was always like “Mom, why didn't youjust name me ‘Katherine’ or ‘Anna’
or something everybody knows”? I was soannoyed. And then once I got older, I was
actually appreciating having a special name.And then one day my uncle sent me an article,
he was like “Siri, you're going to be famous.Your name has been taken over by Apple". And
I was like “What?”OF: How funny.

(03:04):
So yeah, it's quite funny. OF
about it too early?SN: Well, everybody makes a joke about it
right away.OF: Yeah! See… OK, this is where I can actually
empathise with you. Because I've got a strangename, right? ‘Oscar’ for a start…
Yeah. OF
picked up ‘Oscar’. And in the UK, no-onewas called ‘Oscar’.
Yeah. OF

(03:25):
‘Fuchs’ which is very similar to a swearword in English.
Yep. OF
has sort of been taken away from you now.You can't really own it in the same way, because
now it has this other meaning.SN: Yeah. No but most people, they always
go like “Really?” And they are so confused.And they don't believe it. And some Chinese
people are like “You chose it?” I’mlike “No, I did not!” OF: Right, because

(03:47):
here they choose their English names.SN: Exactly. Some people have even asked if
I've become a millionaire. “Have they paidyou?”

OF (03:54):
You should’ve trademarked it before they did.

SN (03:56):
I know. OF
the way. Because I am sure it's the leastoriginal thing that anyone's asked you. This
is just for the benefit of the listeners,because they would be kicking me if I didn't
ask you.SN: Right.

OF (04:06):
Well, what is it that you do here in China? SN
Z&B Fitness and MYbarre Fitness. So I teachand work out for a living.
Very succinct, I always appreciate that. And what object did you bring that in some
way represents your life?SN: It's in my bag, I’ll get it for you.
OK. Here we go. SN

(04:28):
Are those socks? SN
OK. SN
Grip socks. SN
OK, explain. SN
went to the factory to find the perfect grip,and the size and everything. So basically,
I have worn similar socks for the last tenyears. Because I teach barre classes, so I

(04:52):
wear grip socks in my class.OF: And everyone has to wear these socks in
the class?SN: No. We recommend it, but you can do my
class barefoot.OF: OK.

SN (04:59):
But I always wear grip socks. It's like a part of my outfit.

OF (05:02):
Absolutely. And it just so happens that they're on sale there at the studio, no doubt.

SN (05:07):
For sure. OF
I'm not entirely sure of the meaning. Yousaid it was in what class?
Barre

OF (05:19):
Oh like the ballet barre. SN
use that in class, right. So we hold on toit, and then we do all our pliés and second
position. The difference is that it's nota ballet class. It's more like a fitness cardio
kind of class. We start with a warm-up forabout five minutes. And we move on to upper
body - where we use some small dumbbells toget sculpted and toned arms - for ten minutes.
And then we move on to the barre for all theballet movements. But we also do squats and

(05:43):
lunges and stuff like that. And then we finishon the floor with push-ups, and planks, and
core, and a nice stretch at the end.OF: I’m tempted to ask you to show me. So
why don't you take off your headphones.SN: Oh yeah.
And why don’t you hold on to that as your barre.

SN (05:55):
So you can you can go from second to first. Like these movements. Or you can have second
up to a passé. Or second position, hold ithere. We do relevés, where we lift. And we
also do squat movements, which we also dowith dumbbells, like these movements. And
we do lunges. All kinds of movements.OF: Very nice.

(06:20):
No problem. Well, from what I could see, a ballet person would look at that and go
“Hang on, hang on. She's not pointing herfeet, she’s doing it all wrong”. Like,
surely you must get that kind of feedback.SN: Actually, not really.

OF (06:33):
OK. SN
as an adult they love to come to this class.Because they remind themselves of when they
were young, like a little child, dancing ballet.And now it's like you want a different meaning
with your body, and a different meaning withyour workout, right?
Aha. SN
do classical ballet, but that's a differentworkout. Our workout focuses on toning your

(06:55):
body, giving you cardio, a sweat. Like, youcan burn, I would say, an average of between
400-600 calories in one hour.OF: Well that might be why you look like you
look, if you're doing that every day. Howmany classes do you do every day?

SN (07:08):
In a week I do about 10-12. OF
It’s OK. OF
you a ballet dancer originally?SN: No.

OF (07:17):
Ah. SN
So I'm just easy to adapt to a different style.And I have a lot of fitness background. I've
always been super active growing up. My backgroundis actually, I was a merchandiser when I was
in Denmark. So I came to Shanghai as a merchandiser.And then I wanted to work out, right? I’d
always been working out in Denmark, and I’dalways been staying active. So I joined a

(07:39):
gym at that time. It was called CaliforniaFitness.
Oh yes, I know it well. SN
Well I was in Singapore probably, at the time that you're talking about. And they were
also in Singapore.SN: Yes, exactly.
And they were in Hong Kong as well, right? SN
was saying to me “Hey you're a good dancer,you should join me, you should dance Zumba
on the stage”. And I was like “No I'mfine. I just want to be one of the students”.

(08:02):
Yeah. SN
me, and finally I was like “OK sure, let’sgive it a chance”. So I started to practice
and learn the choreography. I flew to HongKong to do the training.
This is in Zumba, you said. SN
That was 2011.OF: Zumba itself is a dance-based exercise
programme, right?SN: Exactly. It's like salsa, reggaeton, like
Latin dance but with fitness. So I was inHong Kong, I would say June 2011. And I did

(08:27):
my training, I came back, and I started toteach classes. Just like…
This was still as a hobby, right? SN
You still got your merchandiser job. SN
I came into the office to find an email thatthe company that I was working for had gone
bankrupt. They were being bought by anothercompany. But in the meantime, we couldn't
work. We didn't know how long it was gonnatake. So at that moment, I was just like “Hey,

(08:49):
I'm available! I want to teach more, let'sdo this”. So we founded Z&B that summer,
and we just started to teach a lot more classes.OF: When you say “We,” who do you mean?

SN (08:58):
So, my partner. We both still had our main jobs, right? So we just started this
on the side. We went from four classes a weekto - like, two weeks later - it was ten, to
- one month later - it was 15. Like, it justexpanded, right? Because also at that moment,
fitness in Shanghai, there was nobody speakingEnglish, there was not a lot of Zumba, there
were not a lot of options, right. So quickly,we had so many foreigners. They just talk

(09:20):
among themselves very fast. And then boom!OF: This sounds so familiar to me, because
we had - in the first season - Vy Vu, whowas one of the founders of FitFam...
Oh yeah. OF
And it was just the same. People would seewhat you were doing, and then they joined
you, and then suddenly it's so many differentFitFams around China.
Yeah. OF
forward to today, what is the scale of Z&B.SN: So in the last ten years, we have opened

(09:44):
up four studios and four gyms. We have doneit completely organically. So we have no outside
investments or anything. Like basically onestudio got full and we were like “OK, it's
time to open up a new one”.OF: Right.
So we expanded from the studio side to the gym side, and we expanded our programmes
a lot more. So going from just having Zumbaand Barre… So Z&B stands for Zumba and Barre.

OF (10:03):
Oh there you go. SN
And nobody questions it, it’s really funny.But also in British English you say ‘Zed’,
and in America you say ‘Zee’ right?OF: Correct.

SN (10:13):
So people are a bit confused sometimes, but…

OF (10:14):
What do you say? SN
people don't catch it - when I can see they’reconfused - I change it from ‘Zee’ to ‘Zed’,
or ‘Zed’ to ‘Zee’.OF: Yeah, I get it.

SN (10:24):
Yeah, so going from there to now having more than 30 different programmes. And then
we're opening two more gyms and studios verysoon.

OF (10:33):
Oh gosh. I mean, this is always what I think. When I look at people who are in the
fitness realm, like how do you scale up? Becausea lot of it is to do with being one-on-one
with your client, right? I myself work withour mutual friend, Tennessee.

SN (10:48):
Oh right, right, right. OF
that's possible. I mean, what are the difficultiesof scaling in this environment?
At the end of the day, it's a service business, right? So you have to find people
who are good with people. So your team issuper important. The people who work for you
are really important. And like - as you say,somebody like Tennessee - you want to come

(11:08):
back again and again. Like, you want more,you want more. That's how we scaled, right?
Like, we were really lucky to meet amazinginstructors who have the passion for it. Like,
they love their job, they love what they'redoing. We don't want people who are just like
“Oh it's a job.” Like, go teach a class,leave again. You know, you want the ones who
show up ten minutes early to speak with theclient, have a little chat, stay longer. Like,

(11:30):
you build up a community. Now it's so big,so this feeling is a little bit different
nowadays.OF: Yes.
But if you go to the same location, it will often be the same receptionist, who will
say your name. And the same trainer, and soon, right? But back in the day, it was tiny.
We were like a family.OF: Well, we're talking about clients. So
why don't I play you the audio of one of yourclients.
OK. OF

(11:52):
from last season.SN: Oh right.

OF (11:53):
So let's hear what she had to say. [Start of Audio Clip]

JM (11:57):
Well I spend a lot of time in various fitness establishments. But there's one that
I really love the most. And Oscar, I thinkI've seen you in there too. It's called Z&B.
And it's very inclusive, because it is forlocals and for foreigners as well. And it
was set up by a Danish lady called Siri. Sheis a very impressive lady, and I think you'll

(12:18):
enjoy talking to her a lot.[End of Audio Clip]

SN (12:20):
Oh that’s so sweet. OF
Yeah, she's a member. But I always see her in the changing room, and she's so lovely
and smiling and happy. And yeah, one day shewas like “Hey, I did this podcast. I recommended
you, is that cool?” So sweet.OF: Well you said that you meet her in the
changing rooms. It makes me think about thedesign of gyms, and changing rooms being one

(12:41):
part of the design. What goes into it?SN: Oh, a lot of things. So if I scroll back
to 2011, we were always renting a studio.And it was horrible. Like, when I think back
I’m like “What were we doing?” But wehad no choice, right? We were just renting
studios. We were literally transporting theequipment in a suitcase, moving from one to
another. Most of the students had no aircon.But we found a way to make it work. So what

(13:04):
happened is that the company I worked for,when I had to start working again I was like
“No, I cannot do this anymore. I cannotsit down on my ass the whole day looking at
a computer”. I was like “I want to dosomething else”. And I just wanted to give
it a chance. So that same year, we found astudio then we took over, and we did the renovation.
We did the whole construction ourselves. Butwe learned a lot for sure. Like, sometimes

(13:25):
you're limited because of columns and pipes.The water is here and can only be here. So
you can’t do a classroom where the wateris, you have to do a bathroom there, right?
So we spent quite a lot of time - I've becomereally good at making straight lines - drawing,
like “Where's the studio? Where’s theroom?” Like, we have classes which are like
yoga, which is more calm. We have classeswith high energy like Zumba, with a lot of

(13:49):
sound, a lot of music. So these two classrooms,you don't want them too close, we discovered.
Later on, we were like “Oh gosh, we shouldn'thave put these two classrooms next to each
other.”OF: Oh, you made that mistake the first time
round, right.SN: Exactly.

OF (13:59):
Oh, interesting. SN
And we learn like, what happens when peoplehave been in the shower, where do they walk
to afterwards?OF: OK.

SN (14:07):
Foreigners walk straight to their lockers, and change their clothes. Chinese walk straight
to the hairdryer, for example.OF: Really?
Yeah. Queuing for toilets, we need a lot more space. Or even in the gym. Nowadays,
people want a lot more free space for theirown HIIT cardio classes in the gym.

OF (14:24):
Yes. SN
- like six, seven years ago - people don'twant to use them anymore. So we have less
equipment now. We also started to have smallerlockers next to the reception for those who
don't want to go into the changing room.OF: At all, yeah.

SN (14:38):
They just want a quick drop-off, into class, out of class. We don't want people
to stay too long - like, to chill and hangout - so all our reception areas are quite
small. It's check-in, do your workout, chatwith your friends, go again.

OF (14:51):
That's true. In fact, when people do congregate in that area - especially in the one that
I go to - you do feel like “Wait, it wasn'tdesigned for that”.

SN (14:58):
Exactly. OF
You’re here for a workout. OF
Because, you know, there are always thesepeople, they’re kind of sitting on the equipment,
but they're doing their phone. And everyoneelse is waiting. Eugh.
Yeah. OF
when you see it at a gym?SN: Well, sometimes the way people use the
equipment. Or maybe they don't use it, butpretend.

OF (15:20):
Go on. SN
weights where they're not lifting weights.OF: How?

SN (15:26):
Oh, just for photos, or videos, or whatever. OF
Or chatting with friends. We have also had situations where people haven't been dressed
in an appropriate way. I would say.OF: Oh, how do you mean?
Like, for example, wearing denim skirt, or denim pants, or high heels, or whatever.

OF (15:44):
Oh that’s a good one. Seriously, high heels?

SN (15:47):
Yes. Just walking around in the gym. And it just makes other people feel uncomfortable.
Like, what is that person doing here? Like,why?

OF (15:53):
I’m sorry, I won’t do it again. SN
to purchase. So if they really want to stay,they can do that.
Right. SN
Yes. What about then, when it comes to fitness fads? Because, you know, I've heard
of all these other fads around the world.Why is barre not one of those?

SN (16:12):
Well, there's been quite a lot, come in and out. I remember last year there was this
kind of like… imagine a trampoline shoe.OF: A trampoline shoe.
Yeah. So you put on a shoe that bounces. OF
Right? OF
clown shoe.SN: Yeah, yeah. So you can jump around. So
I was approached by this company asking ifI want to start this class. And I looked at

(16:32):
this and I went “No, no, no.” Like, sanitisingthose shoes, cleaning them, the storage you
need for a class of 20 people, and the differentsizes, and oh my god, I was just like "No
way, no way”. So there have definitely beensome funny, funny trends. There was also one
a few years ago where you were drumming. Yeah,maybe it would be fun for a period. But long
lasting, maybe not.OF: I've seen a bungee one as well.

(16:54):
A bungee one, yeah yeah. But the bungee one gives you marks, apparently. I haven't
tried it yet, but I know lots of people whohave gone. Like I think it's fun to try. But
in the long term, I don't know how addictedpeople can be to it.

OF (17:07):
This is why I'm confused by the whole notion of doing what you're doing. Because
we're sitting here laughing at these othertrends, right? But barre you think has more
longevity.SN: So barre actually was invented 20 or 30
years ago in the U.S. So it's not a new thing.But the way that we do it is different. So
I have done four different barre programmes.I loved parts of each of them, and combined

(17:32):
what I loved with what I have learned before- from my different kinds of training in Zumba,
pilates, all the different kinds of classesthat I've taken - and took the best of it
all, and created MYbarre. What makes it interestingstill is that every class you go to is different.
The movements you do, and the routine, challengeyou every time. Nobody wants to go and do
the same class again and again, it gets superboring. But you go to barre, and one day you

(17:54):
do this, another day you do that, but it'sall in the same…
Universe. SN
Mmm. The big fad that has been popular around the world the last five years is CrossFit.
And I'm surprised you haven't mentioned CrossFit.You're staying away from them?

SN (18:09):
Totally. No, it's a totally different vibe. Yeah, CrossFit is quite hardcore. And
you have to kind of do a little test beforeyou even can join the class. And I wouldn't
mix it, we’re very different. Most of ourclasses are any level. You can walk into a
barre class and I'll give you options. Ifyou have just had a baby, or you're pregnant,

(18:29):
or you're older, it doesn't matter. It’sfor anybody, it’s any level. CrossFit is
a different ballgame.OF: Yeah, people get injured, don't they?
Yes. Did I say that out loud? OF
You see someone who says “Oh, I've juststarted CrossFit”.
Yeah. OF
down the street.SN: Yeah.

OF (18:51):
And yet, for me, it's the one that I've heard of the most, right?

SN (18:54):
Yeah, OF
I mean, yeah. I feel like, not so much any more. Like, it had its hype a few years
ago, and it was super popular. People stilldo it, of course. But yeah, it's not my vibe.

OF (19:07):
Yeah. Yours is more low-impact, right? SN
Yeah, I'm with you. Because I've always done functional training, which is what I
would just call using your body and then usingsmall weights. And then now I'm using a few
more machines. But there’s something whichis stopping me from doing that kind of class
environment. I've always done it one-on-onewith a trainer.

SN (19:28):
Right. OF
Maybe you would love it. OF
literally walk me.SN: Right, right.

OF (19:36):
Like, hold my hand, walk me in… Put me in a trolley, and then just wheel me inside.
Then dump the trolley and be like “Right,you have to do it now.” Then I'm going to
do it. But unless I'm really forced to doit, I'm that kind of lazy person.

SN (19:46):
Oh you totally can. At least once. Then you have tried it, you’ve done it.

OF (19:51):
OK. SN
Agreed. I am going to have to, at one point, go to one of these classes now.

SN (19:58):
I'm going to drag your ass. OF
on mic, so I have to do it. I mean, what you'resaying is nothing that I didn't expect to
come out of your mouth. You know “Try it,you'll love it, blah, blah, blah”. What
about sometimes where it hasn't worked out?Have you had stories where actually it hasn't
been as positive?SN: Oh, of course, of course.

OF (20:14):
What happens then? SN
class. If someone comes out, I can immediatelysee if they liked it or not. And they might
be like “You know what, yeah, I sweated,but it wasn't really my vibe”. I'm like
“What are you into? What do you like?”First of all, I need to know if they’ve
ever worked out, right? So if they have workedout, that's easier. Because then they already
have a feeling of “Oh, I'm not into that,yoga is way too slow.” Or “I want more

(20:39):
movement, I like dance,” like…OF: They already know what they want.

SN (20:41):
Yeah, exactly. It's the ones who have never worked out, who are kind of like walking
through the door looking around, like "Wheream I going? What am I doing? This is new.
I don't like this, I want to go away.” Youwant to find a way to make them comfortable.
And be like “It's totally fine, just tellthe instructor it’s your first time, do
the smaller movements this time, take it easy,just get a vibe of the class”. They're a

(21:02):
little bit harder because you want to getit right the first time.

OF (21:05):
Yes. SN
I mean, do you even want those people. Because the ones who know what they want,
they’re the ones who are likely to alreadyhave the kind of self-discipline to come back.
And obviously that's what you want, you wantpeople who are going to have membership and
come back. The ones who are on the fence,you have to put a lot of work into them, and
then it might not pay off right in terms ofthe investment.

SN (21:23):
It’s true, it’s true. But I want everybody to work out.

OF (21:26):
Yes. SN
and working out. It's healthy, it’s notjust a business, it’s literally for your
own sake. right? And that's the most importantthing to me. But also, another thing is that
the government does really support it now.So we have seen so many more Chinese people
working out now. Some of my classes are allChinese.
And we talked about differences in the changing rooms between Chinese people and

(21:49):
non-Chinese people, that was quite a funnyone. What about in terms of how they accept
training, in terms of how they motivate themselves,do you see any big differences between Chinese
and non-Chinese?SN: I think for foreigners, most of them have
come from their countries where they havealready been working out. So when I say “Squats”,
they know it. When I say “Lunge”, theyknow it. Whereas Chinese, they don't know
it.OF: This is just because they don't know the

(22:11):
English vocabulary.SN: Er, no. Because I do it myself, they can
see my body. So they visually can see me,but they don't do it right. So you have to
educate them. But they learn really fast.And after a few classes, they catch it, they
get it. I do still see that some Chinese don'treally like to sweat a lot.
Oh. SN

(22:32):
“Let's go! The more sweat the better!”They want to leave the class with their hair
wet.OF: Yeah.

SN (22:38):
Whereas Chinese are still always like, wipe wipe wipe constantly. And a little sweat
is like “Argh!”OF: Really? Isn't that funny, so the appearance
actually is quite important still?SN: I think so. And also with air conditioning,
foreigners are like “Can you make it colder?”They want an ice cold room because they're
gonna sweat. Chinese are like “I don't wantto stand under an air conditioner”. They
space themselves out, so as to not stand underan air conditioner.

OF (22:57):
Because it's too cold, right? SN
of like how they don't like to drink coldwater.
Yes, yes. SN
That's what I was thinking actually, that’s exactly the analogy. That’s a good one.

SN (23:07):
I actually drink warm water myself now. OF
I know, totally. When somebody serves me ice, I'm like “Can you please remove
that?”OF: Yeah. And it's true, because it's a shock
to the body, right?SN: Totally, totally.

OF (23:18):
Yeah. SN
Well, you're doing instruction yourself, you’re running this business. You have other
commitments to juggle, for example a family,right?

SN (23:27):
I do have a family, three children. OF
gyms and how many children? Which ones takeup more of your headspace?
Oh, that's difficult. Actually no, my kids are really independent, all of them.
So they are really, really good. And everythingflows very well. Like, it's all about balance.

(23:47):
Obviously, most of the day, they’re in kindergartenand school, right? So I can focus on my work.
And then once they're home at night, I trynot to work. So I try to balance around that.
Because otherwise, they're just going to havea frustrated mom, who can’t be on both sides,
right? Z&B is open seven days a week. Younever stop working, you never finish things.
There will always be something.OF: Yes.

(24:08):
So you just have to stop time a little bit, and focus on the kids. When they are
there, and when they need you.OF: Do you have any time for yourself actually?
Yeah, I mean, I find time for sure. OF
the answer already. And you always look veryglamorous.
Thank you. OF
And that's a good question. I do enjoy massage. I don't know, I'm very simple and

(24:34):
easy. I like my sleep. So for me, 8-10 hours.I don't know, I just roll with it. Like for
me, the seven days a week is… Everyday iskind of the same. I don't really see the difference
between Monday and Sunday.OF: Yeah. I like seeing it. Because I ran
my own business for ten years. And by theend of it, I was burned out really. So seeing

(24:54):
you - and you've been doing it for ten years- and you're radiating energy still. I mean,
you're gonna do it for ten more years, right?SN: Maybe more.

OF (25:01):
Oh, wow. You really seem to live in the now, right?

SN (25:03):
Yes, very much. So I don't really think too far ahead. I just do feel that I will
definitely still be working out when I'm 70years old, I'm positive of that.

OF (25:13):
Oh, I am too. SN
No doubt. SN
know, in the next ten years my focus is definitelybarre. I want to do trainings outside of Shanghai,
and do more in that kind of line, yeah.OF: Thank you so much Siri.

SN (25:26):
You’re welcome. OF
Go for it! OF
[Part 2]OF: Alright, did you have fun so far?
So much. OF
this is the class. This is the Mosaic of Chinaclass. It's a bit less energetic than your
usual classes.SN: Still fun. That's the most important.

OF (25:48):
Question 1, which comes from Shanghai Daily
fact?SN: It’s actually related to fitness. Fitness
in Shanghai, in 2011, 1% were working out.Now, 3%. That's really impressive, I think.
Like it's very low compared with the restof the world. But I do find it fascinating

(26:10):
that in just ten years it's increased so much.OF: Yes. And yet has so much further to go.

SN (26:16):
I know. OF
I know. OF
here with me? Go out there, open more gyms!Next question comes from Rosetta Stone: Do
you have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?SN: I do. 你很厉害 [Nǐ hěn lìhài].

OF (26:33):
你很厉害 [Nǐ hěn lìhài]. SN
positive, it’s like you're doing good. Like“Good job”.
Right. It's actually a phrase that somebody from Season 02 also chose.

SN (26:43):
Oh yeah? OF
Wow. OF
he liked it because it has two meanings. Soyou see the positive in everything.
Right. OF
It can be something negative, in differentcontexts.
Oh really? OF
[lìhài], they can be sort of 太厉害 [tàilìhài],
Oh! OF
full-on.SN: Right.

OF (27:03):
But of course, you wouldn't know that, because you just always think about the positives
in life.SN: Yeah.
Question 3, which comes from naked Retreats: What's your favourite destination within China?

SN (27:15):
Oh, am I supposed to say naked Retreats? OF
Yeah, it’s lovely, I went to one in 莫干山 [Mògànshān], it’s super lovely.

OF (27:21):
Very good. SN
to ‘Mingxi’.OF: ‘Mingxi’?

SN (27:25):
Yeah. Which is right by the border of Vietnam. And we actually went on the river.
And I was joking, I was like “If I jumpin the water and swim ten metres that way,
I am standing in Vietnam”. You could seethe roads on the other side, with the signs
and the people there. It’s Vietnam.OF: That’s the border.
So that was super cool. Yeah, yeah, there’s like rice fields, small mountains, it’s

(27:47):
super warm, nice people. Yeah, I would definitelygo back there.

OF (27:51):
I feel like you’re talking about something I've never even heard of.

SN (27:54):
I know. OF
it's a place I haven't been to but I’m like“Oh yeah, I've heard it that, I want to
go.” But I've never heard of ‘Mingxi’.I am going to ask you for photos, I really
want to see it.SN: Yeah, it's gorgeous.

OF (28:06):
If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?

SN (28:10):
What I would miss the most, I do think the people here are super, super helpful.
Not that they're not in Denmark, but I justsaw the difference. Like, it's just so different.
When you're here, there's always somebodyaround you who can help you. Or, like, people
are super kind to children. When I bring mykids out. I have 500 阿姨s [āyís] around
me, right?OF: Yes. They don't really care about privacy,

(28:31):
they just see a cute kid and they will justdive right in, right?
Right, right. Why does one have dark hair, and one have light hair and green eyes? How
is this possible? No, the question I get themost is “Are those yours?” I don't feel
like I look like a person who has three kids.OF: Yes!
The other day I was out with my 阿姨 [āyí] and my kids. And they went to my 阿姨
[āyí] and said “Are those your kids?”And she laughed so much. She was like “No!

(28:54):
That girl there! They’re hers!” And theyboth were like “What? How is that possible?”

OF (28:57):
Should I ask you? How old are you? SN
Right? You’ve got three kids at 33. Yeah.

SN (29:04):
Yeah. OF
I think one of the things I would miss the least is the high school fees.

OF (29:12):
Oh. SN
Yes. It's because you want to go to the international school.

SN (29:17):
You have to. OF
With a foreign passport, you can't go to a local school. But no matter what, they
are international kids, right? I want themin international school.

OF (29:25):
There you go. So you won't miss paying the fees. And that's only one so far. Or are
you already paying for all three?SN: Well, the first one is in school, the
second one is in kindergarten, and the lastone, he's starting next year.
Oyoyoy. SN
This is why you have to open two more gyms.

SN (29:41):
Exactly. OF
you about life in China?SN: Within fitness, 6-7 years ago, my class
was 99% foreigners. Now it's 99% Chinese.They are developing constantly with fitness,
and are much more into it. And they're tryingdifferent classes, trying different things.
They do barre one week, and then they do anotherclass the following week. And I see the changes

(30:03):
in their bodies. And some of them don't evenspeak English. And they're coming up to me
and they are translating on their phone andthey go like “Thank you, teacher. I love
you”.OF: Ah.
And stuff like that, right? Or they come up and they're like “Can I have your WeChat?”
And they will send me a message, and I willtranslate it, and they go like “I'm sorry,
my English is so bad, but I want to say thankyou for class,” and stuff like that.

OF (30:21):
That's really sweet. SN
here are very open-minded, interested in tryingnew things.
Well said. Next question, which comes from SmartShanghai
place to go out, to eat, or drink, or to hangout?

SN (30:35):
I am actually really flexible. I love hanging out with my friends, so wherever they
go, I go. But there are definitely a few pieceswe often come back to, like Italo Trattoria,
Funkadeli. Recently we've gone a lot to Bonica.OF: That’s where I saw you last year, yeah.
Yeah, a super nice vibe, super cool environment. Yeah, we just see what's new, what's happening,

(30:55):
and sometimes go back to the good old ones.You know what you're getting.

OF (30:58):
Yeah. SN
Yeah. Next, what is the best or worst purchase you've made in China?

SN (31:05):
So I think the best is probably my investment into Z&B and MyBarre, which happened ten years
ago. I designed our MYbarre balls and stretchbands. So I'm very proud of that. And I'm
very happy that we have this. And it's producedby me, and for this class. So that's definitely
one of the things that I'm like “Yeah, itworks. It really works”. We use it for the

(31:27):
workout, right?OF: Got it. What is your favourite WeChat
sticker?SN: Did you see it?

OF (31:33):
OK, well which one did you want to start with?

SN (31:36):
So I love anything with animals. So my first one - how many monkeys? Like four or
five monkeys?OF: Yes.
Sitting on the back of a yellow car, with their hands up in the air going “Woohoo!”

OF (31:46):
Yes. That's one of my favourites. SN
and it just makes me laugh when I see it.OF: Yeah.

SN (31:54):
What’s my second one? Oh, OK, so this is a dog. Like a big wolf dog jumping on the
floor. Like goofy, happy.OF: It's almost like how a horse would walk.
Yes. OF
But it’s a dog. OF
Like “Oh, see you later”. Or like “Good job today in the class.”

OF (32:13):
Right. Or “I'm on my way”. SN
Beautiful. Thank you, I’m gonna steal that dog one, yeah. What is your go-to song
to sing at KTV?SN: You know what, the funny thing is, I only
have been to KTV like five times.OF: In ten years.

SN (32:31):
Yeah. But I've enjoyed it every time, it's really fun. Something 90s, something
from when I was a little girl. It could beBritney, Beyoncé... Wannabe is always a classic.

OF (32:42):
Wannabe? SN
OK. Yeah, OK. And when was the last time youwent, actually?

SN (32:48):
That was actually not long ago. I was at a friend's birthday, and that was at a
KTV. A few months ago.OF: Very good.
Yeah, yeah. OF
you didn't think about it these days, butwhen you go it’s still good, right?
Exactly. OF
from JustPod, which is the studio we're sittingin now: What or who is your biggest source
of inspiration in China?SN: It's the people around me. It's my friends.

(33:12):
I have such a diverse, inspiring group ofwomen. And I find a lot of motivation in people
around me. It could be a girlfriend, she recentlystarted her own business. It's totally different
from my business. Because nowadays it’sharder to start a business here.

OF (33:24):
Yes. SN
So she's always trying to find new ways. Shedoesn't stop, she doesn't give up. Or it could
be another mom, with her family, with herkids, hearing how their life is, or something
happened, or whatever. Like, how she's dealingwith that. It could be another instructor
who is struggling with class. Or even justsomebody who is super positive. I have a girlfriend

(33:46):
who is so happy - you think I'm happy, she'smore happy - and she just makes me feel like
how she gives her positive vibes to me, Iwant to give that to other people.
Well, you've succeeded today. I'm floating, thanks to being in this room with you. Thank
you very much, Siri.SN: You're welcome.
And if you had one person who you'd recommend that I interview in the next season of Mosaic

(34:11):
of China, who would you recommend?SN: So I have chosen Raphael, because he's
very successful in bringing in brands fromoutside of China. And specifically, he brought
in fast food - a fast food brand - and thenhe's grown it in China, I won’t mention
the brand.OF: OK.

SN (34:26):
You’ll probably find out soon. But yeah, he's been very critical in making this happen.
And I want to get into his brain, I want tohear his opinions and ideas and I want to
hear his podcast.OF: Well, if there's something which is almost
the opposite of what you're doing…SN: Yes.

OF (34:42):
…It's someone who is working in fast food, right? And if there was one thing that
you would ask him, what would you ask Raphael?SN: But the thing is, when I'm with him, I
just fire questions. You know, I don't reallythink about it.
I know, it's a tricky one, because it's the one that's going to be in the podcast.

SN (34:57):
I know, I know. It's like “You have one shot, Siri, let's go!” Can I ask, “Why
fast food?” With a guy like him, who isinto fitness and a healthy lifestyle, works
out every single day at five in the morning,why fast food?

OF (35:12):
Mmm, yeah that's a good one. Well, thanks again Siri.

SN (35:16):
Welcome.
[Outro]OF: I already mentioned during the interview
with Siri that there’s a nice overlap witha previous episode of the show, namely with
Vy Vu from FitFam in Season 01 Episode 08.The other episode I would recommend as an
accompaniment to today’s is with the ultramarathonathlete Greg Nance from Season 01 Episode

(35:39):
23, that one is definitely not to be missed.And Siri is only the second Scandinavian in
the show so far, the first was the Swedishclown, Björn Dahlman from Season 02 Episode
17.
I said at the beginning of today’s showthat there was an update about Siri’s status
at Z&B Fitness. And that is that after 10years, she has parted ways with the Z&B brand

(36:05):
and - exactly as she mentioned in the recording- she wants to focus just on the ‘B’ part:
Barre, and the brand MYbarre. She and herMYbarre partner Ann are busy designing and
building their new studios which will be openingby the end of the year. So we can all in our
minds imagine Siri right now going back todrawing those straight lines again, and planning

(36:29):
how far to place the hairdryers from the showersin the changing rooms. In the meantime they
are also creating a mini-programme for onlineclasses, so watch out for that in the near
future. Good luck Siri, it’s really nicethat this episode can exist as a way to honour
your last 10 years, and to plant a flag forthe next phase in your life.

(36:52):
Before we wrap up today’s show, just tworeminders. The first is to check out all the
extra images on social media for today’sepisode, including her object, her favourite
WeChat stickers, photos from her favouritedestination (which is pronounced 明仕 [Míngshì],
it’s down in 广西 [Guǎngxī] Province),photos with her kids, etc. etc. Siri was worried

(37:17):
that she came across as a little conceitedin the episode for saying that people are
surprised she has three kids. No it’s notconceited, I myself couldn’t believe it
when I first met her, so I can attest thatthis is just a fact. Anyway as an extra bonus
on social media, I’ve included a video ofmyself at Z&B. In case any of you were under

(37:41):
the illusion from today’s episode that I’msome kind of gym rat, this video will set
the record straight. Find me on @oscologyon Instagram, or Mosaicofchina on Facebook
or WeChat. And the second reminder is of courseto head to the Mosaic of China website to
learn how you can subscribe to the PREMIUMversion of the show, where you will find around

(38:05):
15 minutes of extra content per episode. Hereare some clips from today’s extended interview:
[Clip 1]OF: Is it a Danish name?
No, it’s Norwegian, actually. OF
No, I'm Danish. OF
[Clip 2]OF: Was that before WeChat?
There was no WeChat? OF
I don't even remember what we used. [Clip 3]
How can you be there for 200 people, or 500 people, or 1000 people, right?

(38:27):
[Clip 4]SN: I mean, everybody's different, everybody
has a different background.OF: Body positivity, right?
[Clip 5]SN: If you make them too small, too big, too
high, too narrow… Now we found a standardthat seems to make everybody happy.
[Clip 6]SN: Nobody uses them anymore. So we don't
even purchase them now for the gyms.[Clip 7]
And then I went to Denmark for nine months. OF
out for nine months.SN: Yes.

(38:48):
[Clip 8]SN: They have major investment, they want
to expand in five minutes, it’s just notpossible.
[Clip 9]OF: Checking out other people at the gym,
that’s a thing right?SN: Oh my god, totally.
[End of Audio Clips]
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artworkby Denny Newell. Coming up next we have two
really great catch-ups. The first is withthe person who referred Siri to the mosaic:

(39:11):
Jo McFarland, the product sourcer for Sainsbury'sand Argos from Season 02 Episode 18. And then
after that there’s a second catch-up, withJorge Luzio, the marketing leader for Coca-Cola
from all the way back in Season 01 Episode05. And we’ll be back with Season 03 Episode
05 next time.

(39:31):
[Catch-Up Interview 1]OF: Oh hello. Good to see you.

JM (39:43):
You too. OF
So where do I find you today, Jo?JM: I'm in St. Albans, a small city just north
of London. Which it is very pretty.OF: Well I know it well, my hometown is not
far from there, in northwest London. You managedto hop out of Shanghai while it was quite
tough over here. What was your story backthen?

(40:05):
Well, like everybody else I was locked down in my apartment. You know, they said
“Three days”, which turned into two anda bit months. But actually I'm glad I didn't
know it was gonna be that long. But then Ihad already planned a trip to the UK. So I
engineered ‘the great escape.’OF: In fact, I was just thinking, the last
time you and I saw each other in the fleshwas very interesting.

(40:27):
That was two nights before we went into lockdown.

OF (40:30):
That's right. And it was all like “What the hell's going on?” You were one of the
last people that I saw before lockdown.JM: Yeah, yeah.
Well, let me jump in and just explain to anyone listening - for those who did not
hear our original episode in Season 02 - youare in charge of sourcing goods from China
for Sainsbury's, which includes the Sainsbury'ssupermarket chain, but also Argos, which is

(40:53):
another massive High Street retail brand inthe UK, selling general merchandise. And for
those who are not from the UK, you might notknow those brand names, but a massive amount
that comes from China to the UK would be basicallyunder your purview. So if you haven't listened
to Joe's original episode, then definitelygo back and do so right now. Let me continue

(41:13):
though, because I want to talk about what'shappened since that time. We talk about ‘supply
and demand’ here, so let's start with demand.What would you say things like now things
generally normalised?JM: Being here, I can tell you, it's expensive
now in the UK. People are paying almost doublefor some of their utility bills like gas,
electricity, etc.OF: Right.

JM (41:33):
You know, food is phenomenally expensive here. So the whole cost of living here has
gone up exponentially. So people are spendinga lot less money on non-essential items. Also,
people bought everything in sight during COVID.So all those people who bought new TVs, new
washing machines, whatever, they don't needthem. And the third thing is that people were

(41:55):
locked in their houses for almost two years,so rather than spend the money that they do
have on consumer goods, people want to spendit on experiences. People want to go on holiday,
they want to go outside, they want to do differentstuff. All those three things added together
has made business pretty tough globally.OF: Yeah.

(42:17):
So it will have a big effect on China, because the factories are seeing orders being
cancelled, right, left and centre. Now, Ihave been in this business a long time, Oscar.
So these things are cyclical. So whilst itis very challenging at the moment, it will
come back at some point. I’m being extreme,because of course we do still sell lots and

(42:38):
lots of stuff. And people are buying luggage.OF: Oh! Right!
So… Of course, we didn't sell any luggage during lockdown. But of course people now…
We’re selling lots of luggage.OF: Interesting. Thank you for that update.
On the supply side, it hasn't been all roseseither. Let's switch to China. Since our recording,
there was that incident with that ship crashinginto the Suez Canal.

(42:59):
Oh yeah. OF
when it comes to logistics, and costs, andCOVID-19 restrictions in China. What are the
issues that you are contending with from thesupply side right now?
As we know, China is very much about… OF
Relationships. OF
So you're not getting those meetings face-to-face. And that's the stuff that gives creativity,

(43:24):
that creates new ideas, that pushes thingsforward. And because we're now getting close
to three years of not having that, I thinkit's a real hindrance to the movement forward
of the things that we want to do.OF: I can imagine. When things go wrong - which
often happens, of course, in manufacturing- you're slightly less patient. You're more

(43:45):
likely to say “Eurgh, what are those guysdoing?” You don't even know who they are
these days. People who were doing that jobmaybe have moved on to other jobs, so people
have never even met these suppliers, I canjust imagine the cascading effect.
Well that’s a good point, Oscar. Because the other thing that did happened, we had
a vast amount of people deciding to changejobs.

OF (44:03):
Oh. JM
I mean, right across the UK.OF: Yeah.

JM (44:08):
So consequently, we did haven't big churn of colleagues, as did everyone. So we do have
- to your point - a lot of new colleagues.Which in a way is great, because it gives
freshness to the business. But where it'snot so good is you do lose a lot of the expertise.
And, you know, factories like long-standingrelationships with people.

OF (44:30):
The world that you're describing is one that is held together with a massive stretched
BAND-AID. And it's now coming up to threeyears, as you say. And it's like "How long
can this BAND-AID continue to stretch”,right?

JM (44:44):
Yeah. OD
a different angle to it, from that businessperspective.
That's the bit that's difficult for all of us our here - yourself included - is the
unknown. And people have decided that theyjust can't do it anymore.

OF (44:59):
Yeah. So we will be releasing this catch-up at the same time as the episode of Siri. So
when was the last time you saw Siri?JM: I haven't seen her for ages. Because I've
been here, and because of lockdown.OF: Yeah.

JM (45:14):
This year has been a bit of a write-off. OF
you are about 20 kilometres from my hometownin the UK, it feels like I'm on Earth 1 and
you're on Earth 2, right?JM: Yeah, yeah.

OF (45:28):
Well, it's great to see you, Jo. You're always cheerful, even though times are tough.
Let it be not too long before we are havinganother drink back here in China.

JM (45:37):
I hope so, Oscar. OF
You’re welcome. Anytime.
[Catch-Up Interview 2]OF: Hey, Jorge!

JL (45:44):
How are you, my friend? OF
great.JL: It's just a little tan. It's starting
my day. 8:30, coffee's ready, and from nowon non-stop calls until seven.

OF (45:56):
Oh god. All right, well I won't keep you very long. And already it'll be clear to people
listening that we are not in the same place.Where the hell are you?

JL (46:07):
I’m in Atlanta, Georgia. United States. OF
which company?JL: The Coca-Cola company.

OF (46:14):
And for people who didn't hear your original episode back in Season 01, at that point you
were the head of marketing for Sprite andFanta in China, correct?

JL (46:25):
That’s correct, yes. OF
season - which was Season 02 - you were stillin Shanghai. But at that point, you were working
on ‘Emerging Categories’, right, whichwere the alcoholic drinks Coca-Cola were developing
at that point. So what is your role now thatyou are in the headquarters?
Well I’m the Lead of the juice portfolio. The flagship brand is Minute Maid. So I lead

that brand for North America (46:48):
the U.S. and Canada.

OF (46:52):
Well there you go. So it's totally different to your life back here. You would have left
China, what, about a year ago at the timeof this recording?

JL (47:00):
Yes, so it's been a year. Yeah, it's completely different. Coming to the headquarter you would
tend to think that “This is it,” right?This is like the epitome of everything that
Coca-Cola is about. But my biggest realisationwas that… I'm working in a different company.

OF (47:20):
Oh. JL
the fact that it's the biggest, so it hasa lot of power. So the way that we've been
doing things historically has been quite differentto Coca-Cola way of doing things in the rest
of the world.OF: It's been allowed to get away with things
that other markets can't.JL: Correct. I think that it's about being

(47:43):
consumer-centric, versus customer-centric.OF: “Consumer versus customer”? What's
the difference?JL: ‘Consumer’ is like the end-user of
your product, versus the concentration oftrade in five players. So the Walmarts, the
McDonald's of the world. So the push for innovationcomes from them.
Oh. JL

(48:06):
out these aisles, and I need to refresh thesecategories”. Corporations are the one driving
the innovation.OF: Yes, I can see exactly what you mean.
Because your customers are actually a barrierin between you and the consumer. That’s
very interesting, I would never have evenrealised that, but of course it makes sense.
Listen, you've got a big day, which you'reabout to start. So let me ask you the final

(48:28):
question, which is… You know, when peopleleave China, it's always good to cross-check
on what they originally said they would missthe most, and miss the least, if they left
China. So now that this is a reality for you,let me remind you what you said in your original
episode. And you said that the thing thatyou would miss the most was ‘WeChat stickers’.

(48:50):
And the thing that you would miss the leastwas ‘people burping in public’. So what
is the real answer, now that you have beenout of China for a year?

JL (49:00):
The speed. Future thinking, I miss that a lot. The way that we question things, and
we see problems, develop solutions. It’squite impressive, and I miss that.

OF (49:11):
What is the thing that you miss the least? JL
people. Because you tend to get a bit isolated.And…
Totally. Oh my God, that's how I feel right now.

JL (49:22):
Yes, we spent five years there. And you tend to be so overwhelmed by everything while
you're living there. Because it's fantastic,it’s an amazing life. But still, every time
that you want to see someone, it's like a20-hours flight.

OF (49:37):
You are from Venezuela, so I can see why that would be your answer. Because now that
you are based in the States, it's a much shorterflight. It's also the reason why I have never
been to South America, because it's alwaysbeen 30 hours away. So at some point - when
I do leave - it'll be great to travel to LatinAmerica with you. But at the very least, I
hope that I can see you in person before toolong. Jorge, thank you so much for being part

(50:01):
of this project. I know that we are in contactoutside of these recordings, but it's always
good to get you on record. It's a nice wayfor us to at least to track your career every
year or so. So I look forward to continuingto do this. Thanks so much, man.

JL (50:15):
Thanks a lot. I miss you guys. And I love this project. You know, I've been there since
day one. Thank you for making me part of it.