February 10, 2020 • 32 mins
Yang Yi is a Chinese editor, a broadcaster, and one of the trailblazers in the new world of podcasting in China. He is the host of two podcasts, a culture-themed show called "Left-Right", and a show called "Go! LIVE" where he invites reporters in China to share their eperiences in journalism. And he is also co-founder of the "JustPod" company, which currently produces four original and three branded podcasts. Yi and I discuss his personal experiences of growing up with broadcast media in China, and he makes some great observations about China's media landscape from the 1990s to today. While our interview was recorded many weeks before the coronavirus outbreak, some of the things we discuss will resonate with anyone observing how the issue is being handled in the Chinese and Western media. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 03:22 - Part 1 18:26 - Part 2 29:29 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
[Trailer]YY: Thank you for having me. Oh, I have the
opportunity to say these words. Because Iwatch a lot of English-speaking programming,
and the guests say “Oh, thank you for havingme”. It’s my first time to say this.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. I'm your host Oscar Fuchs.
(00:24):
Unusual times in China right now. In caseyou're listening in the future, it’s February
2020, and I'm recording this in Shanghai havingreturned as planned from my Chinese New Year
holiday to Hokkaido. I know many of you listeninghave been in China throughout the whole Coronavirus
outbreak, so I think you guys have gone througha lot more of an ordeal than I have so far.
But it was definitely a surreal experienceflying back into it. The check-in lady at
(00:48):
the airport in Japan even called over hermanager who asked us point blank why we're
flying to China right now. And even the otherChinese people waiting in line were giving
us the side-eye. In the end we simply answered“Because it's our home”. That seems to
satisfy everyone, and everything after thatwent pretty smoothly.
We're now exactly two thirds into Season 01,and I can tell already that the season is
(01:09):
going to be split into the pre-Coronavirus20 episodes, and the post-Coronavirus 10 episodes.
So from now on, you can expect me to includelittle updates on the current situation, just
as they relate to the abrupt lifestyle changethat we're all experiencing right now in China.
But at the same time, I don't want to dwellon it too much. This series was never designed
to be a news podcast. These are just humaninterest stories, which can hopefully be enjoyed
(01:33):
whenever you listen to them. And if you arelistening to them in real time, with any luck
they'll be a nice distraction, especiallyfor those of us in China sitting at home for
hours on end in self-quarantine.
So today's episode is with Yang Yi. Yi trainedas a broadcast journalists, so his answer
to the question about his favourite Chinanews source is definitely one to listen out
(01:54):
for. Even though this chat was recorded agood few weeks ago, you can really see the
things that he says about the Chinese mediaand the Western media playing out right now.
Let me quickly talk about Chinese names. YangYi is a Chinese name, so this is a surname
followed by a first name. That's why I'm callinghim ‘Yi’, that's his given name, and Yang
is his family name. There shouldn't be toomuch confusion there, when we say Mao Zedong,
(02:18):
we all know that Mao is the family name. Theonly confusion comes when Chinese people adopt
a Western nickname. And in these cases, youdon't switch the name order at all. So we've
already had Chinese guests like the comedianMaple Zuo in Episode 02. But Yi is my first
Chinese guest who doesn't go by a Westernnickname. So that's why I'm taking the time
now to go through it. And to those of youlistening who are rolling your eyes at how
(02:40):
elementary all of this is, did you know thatthere is a place in Europe where they also
say the surnames first? Yes, it's in Hungary.So I'm hoping even the eye-rollers out there
might have learned something new.
Finally, before we start the episode, letme also warn you that I'm taking you on a
bit of an audio quality rollercoaster on thisone. The quality in general isn't great, there
(03:02):
was an issue in the studio. But just whenyou're getting used to it, at the end of the
recording you'll hear a section that we neededto re-record and splice into the main interview.
I wouldn't be mentioned in this if I had anychance of getting away with it. But yeah,
you are definitely going to notice this. Soplease enjoy that nice piece of incompetence.
[Part 1]YY: Great to see you here. I'm here with Yang
(03:25):
Yi, and Yang Yi is a podcaster here in China.And the podcast that you do and produce is
called ‘Left, Right’. And you're alsothe editor of a podcast newsletter called
JustPod, right?YY: Yeah. Podcasts in China is booming now,
but it's just starting booming. It's a veryemergent industry.
OF (03:44):
Well, this is what we're hopefully going to talk about today. But before we start,
let me see, what is the object that you'vebrought in today?
YY (03:51):
OK. Well, I brought - what is it called? - a radio receiver. But actually, this is
my newest one. The first radio receiver Iused is one that I had since I was maybe three
or four years old. That was a very big recorder,it was a combined recorder, tape players and
radio receiver, and was produced by the SovietUnion.
OF (04:14):
Oh, wow. YY
because it could receive a very long distancesignal, even from 400 kilometres away. So
I don't know how the Soviet Union had thetechnology to allow the receiver to do this.
But actually, it could do that.OF: So when you were sitting in your hometown,
(04:35):
which was where, by the way?YY: A town in the middle of China called 淮南
[Huáinán], it’s a very small town in 安徽[Ānhuī] Province. So I could listen to the
radio stations from all around world. Voiceof America, BBC World Service, the radio station
from Taiwan. Yeah.OF: Wow.
YY (04:53):
So I think the radio receiver is the biggest part of my life story. Because when I was
just a child during middle school, I wouldwrite my homework with this radio receiver,
and listen to programmes from all around theworld. So I remember, I learned about 911
(05:18):
from shortwave radio. So it was faster thanany media outlet in China.
OF (05:26):
Wow. And so I guess this must have been a foundational experience for you.
YY (05:31):
Yeah, of course. So I think the radio taught me a lot. The world is so big, and
people all over the world have a differentperspective.
OF (05:40):
Well, let's talk about your growing up in 安徽 [Ānhuī], what was the kind of
media that you were exposed to back then?YY: Well, during my childhood it was the 1990s,
when China already had cable television, andthere were a lot of TV channels at that time
in China. Because we use a very differentsystem, not as the UK or the US. Because in
(06:04):
the US, maybe everyone could register theirown TV stations in maybe a small city or small
town. But in China, every Province has thetelevision station, like every state in the
US has a television station. So they wouldmake a lot of general channels, but they are
(06:24):
all general. So they needed to buy a lot ofprogrammes from overseas.
Right. YY
to produce so many shows. So in the early90s, I'd watch a lot of shows from overseas,
like TV series, cartoons, documentaries. Exceptnews, I could watch all different kinds of
(06:49):
shows from overseas, translated into Chinese.OF: Which means from Japan, Korea, from Europe,
from the US…YY: Yeah, most of them from Japan, US and
the UK.OF: So how does that compare to the way that
TV stations broadcast today?YY: Oh it was totally different, because now
(07:09):
China has a very big ability to produce theirown shows. And they learnt a lot of different
formats from overseas, but they produce bythemselves. So I think maybe at this point,
younger people, every show they watch fromthe television set or streaming service is
produced by the Chinese. So it's based onChina's attitude to the world. In my childhood,
(07:32):
shows came from different worlds. So I stillcould see “Oh the people in the UK live
like that. The people in the US live thatthat”. I was living in a very small town
in the middle of China, I didn't have anyopportunity or chance to go abroad at that
time. So those television programmes openeda door to the world for me.
(07:56):
That's so interesting, because I guess in the decade before that - so, in the 70s
80s - they didn't need as much content. Andthen today, all the content is from China.
So you were in this very special little windowbetween those two periods, right?
YY (08:10):
Yes, the very short period in the 1990s. Before that, not everybody had a TV set in
their house. But 1990s is the time-slot forprogrammes coming from overseas into China.
Like I will give an example. You come fromBritain, right? So I'd watch a British television
(08:30):
programme when I was around maybe six or sevenyear old. Actually, I didn't know the programme
at that time. But now I know that programmeis called ‘Vision On’.
OF (08:42):
‘Vision On’, right. YY
it was broadcast in the 1980s. But right hereit was in the 1990s. I remember the background
music of that show. I remember there is asegment called ‘The Gallery’ which showed
paintings from different children. And thiswas a very small segment, but the music was
(09:03):
very good. That show, in my hometown, wasbroadcast during lunchtime. Yeah.
Give me the story as to you as a child, then. And how does that end up with you becoming
interested in broadcasting later on in life?YY: Well, when I was a very little child,
maybe three or four years old, I had the goalto become a journalist in the future. That
(09:27):
concept for me, arrived earlier, I think,then for any other child. So when I went to
college, my major was in journalism. It wascalled ‘The art of presenting and anchoring’.
Right. YY
(09:48):
anchorman is a very experienced journalist.But in China, it’s a separate skill to learn,
how to use your voice, something like that.That was my major. When I graduated from college,
I just went to the television station as aneditor for eight years, until now.
(10:08):
Got it. YY
And so, in terms of the podcasting scene in China, what kind of characteristics are
there about podcasts here?YY: Well, I mentioned before that now in China,
podcasting is booming. But I think it's avery early period of that boom. Some people
have the habit to listen to something. Becausein China, you know, the video, it has a very
(10:33):
big audience.OF: Right. Whenever I'm on the train, I always
see people looking at videos on their phones.YY: Yes, that's right. And you know, TikTok
is a big hit in China now.OF: Right.
YY (10:42):
So for audio content, it’s very difficult now, in China to let people know “Oh, audio
still has a lot of interesting content youcan listen to, not just video”. But at this
point in many Chinese audience’s mind, theylisten to audio content only when they want
to have more knowledge. It’s like onlineeducation. So a lecture, or very famous celebrity
(11:08):
will teach you some point. And you will payfor that. But it's totally different between
China and the Western countries, right? Becausein the English-speaking podcast world, you
have This American Life, you have Serial,you have storytelling shows, right? But in
China, there's just one or two storytellingshows, people don't know what is storytelling.
(11:32):
And people don't even think “Oh, we couldlisten to that kind of show”. Because they
don't know what it is. After the CulturalRevolution, radio stations needed to reform,
right. So at that time, some radio stationsin southern China learnt from Hong Kong's
radio stations that the announcer - or thepresenter - doesn’t need to read scripts.
(11:53):
They could, you know, speak freestyle, anduse the ordinary people's way to talk. That
kind of show was very successful. And thenin the whole 1990s, radio stations everywhere
learned that model. And, you know, that modelis very profitable, because it was very low
cost.OF: Right.
You just need to pay the host. So that became a successful business model, and every
(12:18):
radio station learned from that. So radioproducers in China's radio stations didn't
have any sense about storytelling. Becausestorytelling is very high budget to produce,
right. And they didn't know whether the audiencewould love that. They didn’t know about
this.OF: Right. But you said there are one or two
(12:40):
podcasts now that are doing storytelling.So it's starting to break through now? Or
is it still too early to say?YY: Well I think it’s still early to say.
Because maybe these one or two podcasts bythemselves are successful. But in the whole
media industry in China, they haven’t becomea phenomenon. So it's very hard to say they
(13:03):
that they have already brought podcastinginto the mainstream. No, not at this point.
OF (13:09):
It's interesting, because if you look at outside - I mean, let's just take the US,
for example - where you get a break-out podcastlike Serial. But that's on the back of 10
years of slow development, both on the radioand podcasting formats. So I guess it's a
little bit difficult to say that China shouldsuddenly catch up, if they haven't had this
slow, 10-years progress, right?YY: Yeah. Because I think we're waiting for
(13:32):
our ‘Serial’ moment.OF: Right.
YY (13:34):
People, through a hit show, know what is podcasting.
OF (13:39):
Do you think that you have any big predictions? Or is that too big a question?
YY (13:44):
Well, for podcasting I think this scene in China will become industrial, it will become
professional, and become profitable in thefuture. Many podcasters in China think podcasts
are a space for freedom of speech. But I don'tthink it is a stable situation. Because in
(14:05):
the past years, this medium has a very smallaudience. And someone - you know, the Big
Brothers - don’t focus on you. But if thismedium becomes bigger and has more influence,
people will focus on you, people will payattention to you. So that means you won't
have free speech anymore in this space. Soif you want to keep that kind of free speech
(14:29):
in podcasting, I think podcasting will killitself in China.
OF (14:33):
Yeah, that makes sense. And in Western countries, we would use things like iTunes,
SoundCloud, what is the environment here inChina?
YY (14:43):
喜马拉雅 [Xǐmǎlāyǎ] is the biggest one.
OF (14:45):
Do they themselves try and have editorial control over the content?
YY (14:50):
Well, they don’t give podcasts editorial control, but they could remove your show,
or an episode.OF: OK. The reason I wanted to ask that question
was to lead into my next question, which wasabout just in general, lifestyle. Because
I know that you're a broadcaster, you're apodcaster, but you're also someone who is
out there on the LGBT scene as well. Right?YY: Uh-huh.
OF (15:12):
But it just made me think you know, how people do try and self-censor, not just on
podcasts, but I guess in the way that theylive their lives. You strike me as someone
who is not really self-censoring the way thatyou live your life here.
YY (15:24):
Well, in China, I think, well, first LGBT has their own community. And this community,
we don’t need to march on the road, or anythinglike that. This community is maybe several
very close friends, and they will build aWeChat group, and they will talk every day.
In the community, I think we don’t haveany pressure. We just could talk about our
(15:47):
everyday life in that. But to the public,everyone has their different way to face the
whole environment. Like me, I have come out.I don't want to hide it. But for many people,
it's big pressure. Because maybe someday theywill, you know, get married, maybe at the
age of 40. Or maybe the age of 45. They haveto face the need to get married. They have
(16:13):
this kind of pressure. They are gay or lesbian,but their mind is straight.
OF (16:18):
Oh, I see what you mean. YY
the final goal. And they use that standard.So that is the thing… I have a little bit
of worry about that. Because they will createa lot of misunderstandings about this whole
community. Straight guys will think “Oh,LGBT people don’t take responsibility”.
(16:43):
I know they have their own pressure, but Idon't think it is a good way to solve the
problem.OF: Got it. Do you think that these two lives
will intersect - you know, your podcastinglife, the LGBT identity - do you see some
interconnectivity in the future for you?YY: Oh, I truly want to produce an LGBT scene
podcast in China. Because this community hasa lot of interesting stories to tell. I think
(17:08):
it is a very good way to bridge the gap. Ithink most Chinese people don't know how to
date.OF: Oh right.
YY (17:18):
They want to date, but the final goal is to get married. So if that is the final
goal, they would think a lot about money,life, families, something like that. But I
think dating is a very simple thing. Datingis just dating. It’s just chit-chat, it’s
(17:38):
just building a connection between two people.OF: And this style of casual dating is not
very common in China.YY: Yeah.
OF (17:46):
Wow. And what about LGBT then? What's the future? Or shall we not talk about that?
YY (17:51):
It’s harder to say than podcasting. OF
Yeah. Because the Chinese attitude on LGBT is not very stable. It’s flexible.
Some years they will become very open to theLGBT community. Some years it will become
very closed.=OF: Yeah.
Maybe now, it’s closed. OF
(18:12):
that. And let's move on to the second part,which is the 10 questions that I ask…
Ah, you sent be the question list before, and it made me think a lot. Because for some
of the questions, I’ve never thought aboutbefore.
OF (18:24):
Oh, that's good. YY
[Part 2]OF: Question 1, what’s your favourite China-related
fact?YY: OK, in Chinese we call it 中庸之道
[Zhōngyōng zhī dào]. I don't know howto translate it into English. I searched on
Wikipedia, it’s called Doctrine of the Mean.OF: ‘Doctrine of the Mean’, yes.
YY (18:44):
Yeah, I think it’s the psychology about balance. In my explanation, it means there
is nothing too bad or nothing too good. Thereis nothing truly black or truly white. Chinese
medicine uses this philosophy. In Chinesemedicine, if you were sick, they didn't try
to find a reason behind that. They just triedto keep your body balanced. At that time,
(19:11):
when the body got back into balance, you willfeel better.
OF (19:13):
Right. YY
my life. And when I have any trouble, I thinkabout that.
OK, I'll try to learn that one. 中庸之道 [Zhōngyōng zhī dào].
YY (19:26):
中庸之道 [Zhōngyōng zhī dào]. OF
as Question 2. Do you have a favourite wordor phrase in Chinese?
Hmm. So that is the difficult question for me. I usually say 好吧 [Hǎo ba].
OF (19:41):
That, you hear a lot in China. YY
Can you can you explain that to a non-Chinese person
YY (19:48):
It’s a little bit like “Oh, that's fine”.
OF (19:51):
Right. YY
it could be better”.OF: Uh huh. Right. Well, I'm sure people living
in China have heard that pretty much everyday since they got here. 好吧 [Hǎo ba],
好吧 [hǎo ba]. If you left China, whatwould you miss the most, and what would you
miss the least?YY: Oh, miss the most, I think would be efficient
(20:15):
life. Yeah. Because, you know, China has 1.4billion people. Huge population here. So the
labour costs in China is very low. Which meansthere are a lot of people who could give you
different kinds of service in China. And it'svery cheap. And then the subway. Because I
remember in the US, maybe New York city hasa very big subway transportation system, but
(20:41):
in any other cities you have to drive by yourself,right? I can’t drive. So it's very hard
for me to live in the US. But I think ‘efficientlife’, what I mean about that is, you can
choose your way to live in the city. And no-onecan judge it.
Yeah. Is there anything that surprises you about modern life in China?
YY (21:05):
Well, I want to give the example of TikTok. OF
It's a little bit like Snapchat, but TikTok is focusing on the video part.
OF (21:16):
Yeah. YY
So I think the applications like TikTok havechanged a lot of things. They let people think
that video is not a very difficult thing tomake, and they can record their personal life.
For me, I think this changed a lot. Becausepeople now have the habit to record everything.
(21:39):
And do you think that that will maybe get people more interested in storytelling,
because everyone is getting used to tellingtheir own stories?
YY (21:47):
Maybe, maybe, but I think many people use TikTok just to think of themselves as
a celebrity for one minute.OF: Well, we'll see where that goes, right?
I must download TikTok, I still haven't downloadedit, but I find those kind of apps too confusing.
What's your favourite place to go, to eat,to drink, to hang out?
(22:10):
OK. So this question will show my boring part. I think usually a friend will recommend
some restaurant or coffee shop, and they willbring me there. And at that time, I will give
it a score, like “This restaurant is good”.But it doesn't mean I will come back.
OF (22:30):
Right. YY
Because I think if you think the place isyour favourite, you will go there many times,
right? So if you have to say the place I usuallygo, it’s a small noodle restaurant near
my house. I go there every day. But is itmy ‘favourite’, I don't think so.
(22:53):
I think that's one way of defining ‘favourite’. YY
If you go there that often then I think that counts. What kind of noodles is that
noodle shop?YY: It’s very traditional Chinese noodles,
大肠面 [dàcháng miàn].OF: Oh, large intestines.
YY (23:07):
Yeah. OF
But it’s pigs OF
It's very delicious. But I don't know whether it’s the most delicious. But for
me, I think it's delicious to eat.OF: So how often would you go there?
Maybe three times a week? OF
Yeah. Because it's very close to my house. OF
(23:29):
purchase you've recently made?YY: Well, I usually buy books, not any other
things. If I buy any other purchase, it’ssomething I truly need to use, like a new
microphone, new recorder. But if we talk aboutbooks, recently I read a book, ‘The Fifth
(23:52):
Risk’, written by Michael Lewis.OF: That’s fiction or non-fiction?
Non-fiction, it talks about the Trump administration.
OF (23:59):
Oh, got it. YY
wants to explain how Trump truly influencesthe US government system.
So you tend to buy the actual books, you don't tend to do the electronic version?
YY (24:15):
Oh, I tried the electronic version. I tried Kindle before. But finally, I think
the physical book is better.OF: Yeah. I'm the same, but maybe we're dying
out, our generation.YY: Yeah.
OF (24:29):
What is your favourite WeChat sticker? YY
very interesting popular phenomenon in China.It’s related to the former president 江泽民
[Jiāng Zémín].OF: OK.
YY (24:42):
And now he's more than 80 years old, and he has a lot of younger fans. Because the
younger people think he's interesting. Peoplelove him. And we make a lot of different stickers
about him. So I showed you one which is about“+1 second, +1 second’. It’s best wishes
(25:05):
to an old person, to him.OF: Ah, so what what it means is, to keep
on living, ‘keep living, keep living’.YY: Yeah.
OF (25:13):
That’s funny. Wow, I'm glad you explained it, I would not have understood it without
that.YY: Well Chinese leaders are just always poker
face. So that's very active. We’d neverseen this before.
Oh, how funny. Next question. What is your favourite go-to song to sing at KTV?
YY: OK, here's a song in Chinese called 最炫民族风 (25:31):
undefined
[Zuìxuàn mínzúfēng]. And It’s a miraclesong.
OF (25:37):
OK… YY
I think it is my go-to song, you know, atkaraoke. Because it's a very good song for
warming up.OF: Ah.
YY (25:49):
And for me, I think entertaining my friends is a very important thing for me. You know,
sometimes when we go to KTV, the first 20minutes is very embarrassing, right? Someone
is picking their own songs, someone is orderingdrinks and food, someone is chit-chatting.
And no-one is focusing on singing. So thissong is, you know, how do you say it?
OF (26:11):
It kind of makes everyone feel energetic, or..?
YY (26:13):
Yeah. OF
So it's a very good way for everyone to pay attention to you.
OF (26:18):
Right. YY
Yeah. YY
I need to do something”.OF: You’re a very useful person to have
a KTV, I think. And finally, what other China-relatedmedia or sources of information do you rely
on?YY: Well, if Chinese media, I think 财新
(26:43):
[Cáixīn] Media is the best choice. But it’sin the Chinese language. It's just professional
news, like FT and Bloomberg in the Englishworld is still very useful.
Right, so it's like the equivalent of FT, right?
YY (26:56):
Yeah. And I think the financial news is a good point in China to open very small door
for news.OF: Yeah, well said.
And if you talk about English, in my mind I think foreign media for China is very useful,
because you have freedom of speech. So youhave an opportunity to cover a lot of issues
(27:20):
that Chinese media can’t cover. But a lotof Western media surely have a stereotype
on China, among Chinese issues.OF: Yeah.
And I am still an editor and journalist, I know that feeling. It’s “Well, I have
a storyline. I want to introduce someone tofill in that blank”. And I think sometimes
(27:44):
it relies on some stereotype. If they havethe opportunity to get some new discovery,
they don't want to go into that. It is “Oh,that's that's not my storyline”.
OF (27:55):
Yes. Yes, because it doesn't fit the story that I want to write.
YY (27:59):
Yeah, but I am a big of foreign media, actually. But I still find their Chinese coverage
has some problem like that. So that's a littlebit, you know… For me, it's a combination.
OF (28:11):
Yeah. I like that. And I like that you can look at 财新 [Cáixīn], and then you
can look at foreign media, and then you canfind that somewhere in between there is something
called ‘the truth’.YY: Uh-huh.
Thank you so much for your time today, Yi.
YY (28:25):
Oh thank you Oscar. OF
quite a few different topics here. And thelast thing I will ask you before you leave
is out of everyone who you know in China,who should I interview in the next season
of Mosaic of China?YY: OK, I nominate Chu Yang. She's one of
my friends. And she's a very interesting girl,because she is tough. So I think she would
(28:48):
be very interesting. There are some kind ofvery challenging and tough persons in China
who care about world issues, feminism issues,and she was a journalist. So she’s maybe
experiencing some issues about journalismin China. So I think she has a lot of topics
for you to talk about.OF: That sounds great. I'm interested and
(29:08):
intimidated at the same time. Thanks Yi.YY: Thank you for having me. Oh, I have the
opportunity to say these words. Because Iwatch a lot of English-speaking programming,
and the guests say “Oh, thank you for havingme”. It’s my first time to say this.
OF (29:24):
You said it very well, thank you too. YY
[Outro]OF: So the main thing to unpack from today's
episode is the word 蛤 [há] that Yi casuallymentioned when describing the 江泽民 [Jiāng
Zémín] sticker. This 蛤 [há] means toad.I won't go into all the details here, but
you can look up ‘toad worship’ on theinternet to find out more. I kid you not.
(29:47):
It really reminds me of Episode 16, when Ninitalked about llamas. Sometimes the simplest
of things have a hidden complexity in China,especially when it comes to evading the censors.
The 江泽民 [Jiāng Zémín] WeChat stickeris of course on social media. If you're in
the WeChat group, you'll have seen the originalsticker. To join, please add me on my ID:
(30:09):
mosaicofchina, and I'll add you there myself.And otherwise, you can see screenshots of
the sticker on Instagram and Facebook. Sojust search for ‘mosaicofchina’, and you'll
find them there.
Apart from the sticker, there are lots ofother images online this week. We have Yi
with his object, his radio. And he was backin his hometown of 淮南 [Huáinán] over
the Chinese New Year, so he was able to takea photo of the original radio made in the
(30:33):
Soviet Union, which he mentioned. There'salso a couple of photos from 淮南 [Huáinán]
itself. Yi described it as a very small townin our chat, but it didn't surprise me to
discover that it has 2.3 million inhabitants.I’ve posted Yi’s phrase in Chinese, 好吧
[hǎo ba], which means something like “well,alright then”. That's in contrast to 好的
(30:55):
[hǎo de] which is a more emphatic way ofsaying ‘yes’ or ‘OK’. There's also
the logo of 'Vision On’, the programme fromthe UK that was aired at lunchtimes in 安徽
[Ānhuī] in the 90s. 'Vision On’ actuallyoriginally aired on BBC One in the UK in the
60s and 70s - so, a long time before it cameto 安徽 [Ānhuī] - and it was originally
(31:15):
designed specifically for children with hearingimpairments. It's a little bit before my time,
but I've definitely heard of it, and I'm suremost of the Brits out there have too. Speaking
of programmes, Yi mentioned that there area couple of storytelling shows breaking through
in the China podcast space at the moment.The most famous of these is definitely 故事FM.
If you can understand Mandarin, I would reallyrecommend it. And the exciting news is that
(31:38):
Yi himself has put his money where his mouthis. Since we recorded this interview together,
he has quit his day job at the TV stationand is now a full-time podcaster. More than
that he has also co-founded China's firstpodcasting company called JustPod, which now
produces a bunch of different shows. So I'mreally excited for Yi and I can't wait to
see where he - and the other China podcasterslike him - takes this medium in the future.
(32:04):
There are lots of other images, but I am takingtoo much time, so I'll just let you discover
them for yourselves.
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, artworkby Denny Newell, and extra support from Milo
de Prieto and Alston Gong. I am still planningon being here next week, and I hope the same
goes for you.
[Trailer]YY: Thank you for having me. Oh, I have the
opportunity to say these words. Because Iwatch a lot of English-speaking programming,
and the guests say “Oh, thank you for havingme”. It’s my first time to say this.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. I'm your host Oscar Fuchs.
(00:24):
Unusual times in China right now. In caseyou're listening in the future, it’s February
2020, and I'm recording this in Shanghai havingreturned as planned from my Chinese New Year
holiday to Hokkaido. I know many of you listeninghave been in China throughout the whole Coronavirus
outbreak, so I think you guys have gone througha lot more of an ordeal than I have so far.
But it was definitely a surreal experienceflying back into it. The check-in lady at
(00:48):
the airport in Japan even called over hermanager who asked us point blank why we're
flying to China right now. And even the otherChinese people waiting in line were giving
us the side-eye. In the end we simply answered“Because it's our home”. That seems to
satisfy everyone, and everything after thatwent pretty smoothly.
We're now exactly two thirds into Season 01,and I can tell already that the season is
(01:09):
going to be split into the pre-Coronavirus20 episodes, and the post-Coronavirus 10 episodes.
So from now on, you can expect me to includelittle updates on the current situation, just
as they relate to the abrupt lifestyle changethat we're all experiencing right now in China.
But at the same time, I don't want to dwellon it too much. This series was never designed
to be a news podcast. These are just humaninterest stories, which can hopefully be enjoyed
(01:33):
whenever you listen to them. And if you arelistening to them in real time, with any luck
they'll be a nice distraction, especiallyfor those of us in China sitting at home for
hours on end in self-quarantine.
So today's episode is with Yang Yi. Yi trainedas a broadcast journalists, so his answer
to the question about his favourite Chinanews source is definitely one to listen out
(01:54):
for. Even though this chat was recorded agood few weeks ago, you can really see the
things that he says about the Chinese mediaand the Western media playing out right now.
Let me quickly talk about Chinese names. YangYi is a Chinese name, so this is a surname
followed by a first name. That's why I'm callinghim ‘Yi’, that's his given name, and Yang
is his family name. There shouldn't be toomuch confusion there, when we say Mao Zedong,
(02:18):
we all know that Mao is the family name. Theonly confusion comes when Chinese people adopt
a Western nickname. And in these cases, youdon't switch the name order at all. So we've
already had Chinese guests like the comedianMaple Zuo in Episode 02. But Yi is my first
Chinese guest who doesn't go by a Westernnickname. So that's why I'm taking the time
now to go through it. And to those of youlistening who are rolling your eyes at how
(02:40):
elementary all of this is, did you know thatthere is a place in Europe where they also
say the surnames first? Yes, it's in Hungary.So I'm hoping even the eye-rollers out there
might have learned something new.
Finally, before we start the episode, letme also warn you that I'm taking you on a
bit of an audio quality rollercoaster on thisone. The quality in general isn't great, there
(03:02):
was an issue in the studio. But just whenyou're getting used to it, at the end of the
recording you'll hear a section that we neededto re-record and splice into the main interview.
I wouldn't be mentioned in this if I had anychance of getting away with it. But yeah,
you are definitely going to notice this. Soplease enjoy that nice piece of incompetence.
[Part 1]YY: Great to see you here. I'm here with Yang
(03:25):
Yi, and Yang Yi is a podcaster here in China.And the podcast that you do and produce is
called ‘Left, Right’. And you're alsothe editor of a podcast newsletter called
JustPod, right?YY: Yeah. Podcasts in China is booming now,
but it's just starting booming. It's a veryemergent industry.
OF (03:44):
Well, this is what we're hopefully going to talk about today. But before we start,
let me see, what is the object that you'vebrought in today?
YY (03:51):
OK. Well, I brought - what is it called? - a radio receiver. But actually, this is
my newest one. The first radio receiver Iused is one that I had since I was maybe three
or four years old. That was a very big recorder,it was a combined recorder, tape players and
radio receiver, and was produced by the SovietUnion.
OF (04:14):
Oh, wow. YY
because it could receive a very long distancesignal, even from 400 kilometres away. So
I don't know how the Soviet Union had thetechnology to allow the receiver to do this.
But actually, it could do that.OF: So when you were sitting in your hometown,
(04:35):
which was where, by the way?YY: A town in the middle of China called 淮南
[Huáinán], it’s a very small town in 安徽[Ānhuī] Province. So I could listen to the
radio stations from all around world. Voiceof America, BBC World Service, the radio station
from Taiwan. Yeah.OF: Wow.
YY (04:53):
So I think the radio receiver is the biggest part of my life story. Because when I was
just a child during middle school, I wouldwrite my homework with this radio receiver,
and listen to programmes from all around theworld. So I remember, I learned about 911
(05:18):
from shortwave radio. So it was faster thanany media outlet in China.
OF (05:26):
Wow. And so I guess this must have been a foundational experience for you.
YY (05:31):
Yeah, of course. So I think the radio taught me a lot. The world is so big, and
people all over the world have a differentperspective.
OF (05:40):
Well, let's talk about your growing up in 安徽 [Ānhuī], what was the kind of
media that you were exposed to back then?YY: Well, during my childhood it was the 1990s,
when China already had cable television, andthere were a lot of TV channels at that time
in China. Because we use a very differentsystem, not as the UK or the US. Because in
(06:04):
the US, maybe everyone could register theirown TV stations in maybe a small city or small
town. But in China, every Province has thetelevision station, like every state in the
US has a television station. So they wouldmake a lot of general channels, but they are
(06:24):
all general. So they needed to buy a lot ofprogrammes from overseas.
Right. YY
to produce so many shows. So in the early90s, I'd watch a lot of shows from overseas,
like TV series, cartoons, documentaries. Exceptnews, I could watch all different kinds of
(06:49):
shows from overseas, translated into Chinese.OF: Which means from Japan, Korea, from Europe,
from the US…YY: Yeah, most of them from Japan, US and
the UK.OF: So how does that compare to the way that
TV stations broadcast today?YY: Oh it was totally different, because now
(07:09):
China has a very big ability to produce theirown shows. And they learnt a lot of different
formats from overseas, but they produce bythemselves. So I think maybe at this point,
younger people, every show they watch fromthe television set or streaming service is
produced by the Chinese. So it's based onChina's attitude to the world. In my childhood,
(07:32):
shows came from different worlds. So I stillcould see “Oh the people in the UK live
like that. The people in the US live thatthat”. I was living in a very small town
in the middle of China, I didn't have anyopportunity or chance to go abroad at that
time. So those television programmes openeda door to the world for me.
(07:56):
That's so interesting, because I guess in the decade before that - so, in the 70s
80s - they didn't need as much content. Andthen today, all the content is from China.
So you were in this very special little windowbetween those two periods, right?
YY (08:10):
Yes, the very short period in the 1990s. Before that, not everybody had a TV set in
their house. But 1990s is the time-slot forprogrammes coming from overseas into China.
Like I will give an example. You come fromBritain, right? So I'd watch a British television
(08:30):
programme when I was around maybe six or sevenyear old. Actually, I didn't know the programme
at that time. But now I know that programmeis called ‘Vision On’.
OF (08:42):
‘Vision On’, right. YY
it was broadcast in the 1980s. But right hereit was in the 1990s. I remember the background
music of that show. I remember there is asegment called ‘The Gallery’ which showed
paintings from different children. And thiswas a very small segment, but the music was
(09:03):
very good. That show, in my hometown, wasbroadcast during lunchtime. Yeah.
Give me the story as to you as a child, then. And how does that end up with you becoming
interested in broadcasting later on in life?YY: Well, when I was a very little child,
maybe three or four years old, I had the goalto become a journalist in the future. That
(09:27):
concept for me, arrived earlier, I think,then for any other child. So when I went to
college, my major was in journalism. It wascalled ‘The art of presenting and anchoring’.
Right. YY
(09:48):
anchorman is a very experienced journalist.But in China, it’s a separate skill to learn,
how to use your voice, something like that.That was my major. When I graduated from college,
I just went to the television station as aneditor for eight years, until now.
(10:08):
Got it. YY
And so, in terms of the podcasting scene in China, what kind of characteristics are
there about podcasts here?YY: Well, I mentioned before that now in China,
podcasting is booming. But I think it's avery early period of that boom. Some people
have the habit to listen to something. Becausein China, you know, the video, it has a very
(10:33):
big audience.OF: Right. Whenever I'm on the train, I always
see people looking at videos on their phones.YY: Yes, that's right. And you know, TikTok
is a big hit in China now.OF: Right.
YY (10:42):
So for audio content, it’s very difficult now, in China to let people know “Oh, audio
still has a lot of interesting content youcan listen to, not just video”. But at this
point in many Chinese audience’s mind, theylisten to audio content only when they want
to have more knowledge. It’s like onlineeducation. So a lecture, or very famous celebrity
(11:08):
will teach you some point. And you will payfor that. But it's totally different between
China and the Western countries, right? Becausein the English-speaking podcast world, you
have This American Life, you have Serial,you have storytelling shows, right? But in
China, there's just one or two storytellingshows, people don't know what is storytelling.
(11:32):
And people don't even think “Oh, we couldlisten to that kind of show”. Because they
don't know what it is. After the CulturalRevolution, radio stations needed to reform,
right. So at that time, some radio stationsin southern China learnt from Hong Kong's
radio stations that the announcer - or thepresenter - doesn’t need to read scripts.
(11:53):
They could, you know, speak freestyle, anduse the ordinary people's way to talk. That
kind of show was very successful. And thenin the whole 1990s, radio stations everywhere
learned that model. And, you know, that modelis very profitable, because it was very low
cost.OF: Right.
You just need to pay the host. So that became a successful business model, and every
(12:18):
radio station learned from that. So radioproducers in China's radio stations didn't
have any sense about storytelling. Becausestorytelling is very high budget to produce,
right. And they didn't know whether the audiencewould love that. They didn’t know about
this.OF: Right. But you said there are one or two
(12:40):
podcasts now that are doing storytelling.So it's starting to break through now? Or
is it still too early to say?YY: Well I think it’s still early to say.
Because maybe these one or two podcasts bythemselves are successful. But in the whole
media industry in China, they haven’t becomea phenomenon. So it's very hard to say they
(13:03):
that they have already brought podcastinginto the mainstream. No, not at this point.
OF (13:09):
It's interesting, because if you look at outside - I mean, let's just take the US,
for example - where you get a break-out podcastlike Serial. But that's on the back of 10
years of slow development, both on the radioand podcasting formats. So I guess it's a
little bit difficult to say that China shouldsuddenly catch up, if they haven't had this
slow, 10-years progress, right?YY: Yeah. Because I think we're waiting for
(13:32):
our ‘Serial’ moment.OF: Right.
YY (13:34):
People, through a hit show, know what is podcasting.
OF (13:39):
Do you think that you have any big predictions? Or is that too big a question?
YY (13:44):
Well, for podcasting I think this scene in China will become industrial, it will become
professional, and become profitable in thefuture. Many podcasters in China think podcasts
are a space for freedom of speech. But I don'tthink it is a stable situation. Because in
(14:05):
the past years, this medium has a very smallaudience. And someone - you know, the Big
Brothers - don’t focus on you. But if thismedium becomes bigger and has more influence,
people will focus on you, people will payattention to you. So that means you won't
have free speech anymore in this space. Soif you want to keep that kind of free speech
(14:29):
in podcasting, I think podcasting will killitself in China.
OF (14:33):
Yeah, that makes sense. And in Western countries, we would use things like iTunes,
SoundCloud, what is the environment here inChina?
YY (14:43):
喜马拉雅 [Xǐmǎlāyǎ] is the biggest one.
OF (14:45):
Do they themselves try and have editorial control over the content?
YY (14:50):
Well, they don’t give podcasts editorial control, but they could remove your show,
or an episode.OF: OK. The reason I wanted to ask that question
was to lead into my next question, which wasabout just in general, lifestyle. Because
I know that you're a broadcaster, you're apodcaster, but you're also someone who is
out there on the LGBT scene as well. Right?YY: Uh-huh.
OF (15:12):
But it just made me think you know, how people do try and self-censor, not just on
podcasts, but I guess in the way that theylive their lives. You strike me as someone
who is not really self-censoring the way thatyou live your life here.
YY (15:24):
Well, in China, I think, well, first LGBT has their own community. And this community,
we don’t need to march on the road, or anythinglike that. This community is maybe several
very close friends, and they will build aWeChat group, and they will talk every day.
In the community, I think we don’t haveany pressure. We just could talk about our
(15:47):
everyday life in that. But to the public,everyone has their different way to face the
whole environment. Like me, I have come out.I don't want to hide it. But for many people,
it's big pressure. Because maybe someday theywill, you know, get married, maybe at the
age of 40. Or maybe the age of 45. They haveto face the need to get married. They have
(16:13):
this kind of pressure. They are gay or lesbian,but their mind is straight.
OF (16:18):
Oh, I see what you mean. YY
the final goal. And they use that standard.So that is the thing… I have a little bit
of worry about that. Because they will createa lot of misunderstandings about this whole
community. Straight guys will think “Oh,LGBT people don’t take responsibility”.
(16:43):
I know they have their own pressure, but Idon't think it is a good way to solve the
problem.OF: Got it. Do you think that these two lives
will intersect - you know, your podcastinglife, the LGBT identity - do you see some
interconnectivity in the future for you?YY: Oh, I truly want to produce an LGBT scene
podcast in China. Because this community hasa lot of interesting stories to tell. I think
(17:08):
it is a very good way to bridge the gap. Ithink most Chinese people don't know how to
date.OF: Oh right.
YY (17:18):
They want to date, but the final goal is to get married. So if that is the final
goal, they would think a lot about money,life, families, something like that. But I
think dating is a very simple thing. Datingis just dating. It’s just chit-chat, it’s
(17:38):
just building a connection between two people.OF: And this style of casual dating is not
very common in China.YY: Yeah.
OF (17:46):
Wow. And what about LGBT then? What's the future? Or shall we not talk about that?
YY (17:51):
It’s harder to say than podcasting. OF
Yeah. Because the Chinese attitude on LGBT is not very stable. It’s flexible.
Some years they will become very open to theLGBT community. Some years it will become
very closed.=OF: Yeah.
Maybe now, it’s closed. OF
(18:12):
that. And let's move on to the second part,which is the 10 questions that I ask…
Ah, you sent be the question list before, and it made me think a lot. Because for some
of the questions, I’ve never thought aboutbefore.
OF (18:24):
Oh, that's good. YY
[Part 2]OF: Question 1, what’s your favourite China-related
fact?YY: OK, in Chinese we call it 中庸之道
[Zhōngyōng zhī dào]. I don't know howto translate it into English. I searched on
Wikipedia, it’s called Doctrine of the Mean.OF: ‘Doctrine of the Mean’, yes.
YY (18:44):
Yeah, I think it’s the psychology about balance. In my explanation, it means there
is nothing too bad or nothing too good. Thereis nothing truly black or truly white. Chinese
medicine uses this philosophy. In Chinesemedicine, if you were sick, they didn't try
to find a reason behind that. They just triedto keep your body balanced. At that time,
(19:11):
when the body got back into balance, you willfeel better.
OF (19:13):
Right. YY
my life. And when I have any trouble, I thinkabout that.
OK, I'll try to learn that one. 中庸之道 [Zhōngyōng zhī dào].
YY (19:26):
中庸之道 [Zhōngyōng zhī dào]. OF
as Question 2. Do you have a favourite wordor phrase in Chinese?
Hmm. So that is the difficult question for me. I usually say 好吧 [Hǎo ba].
OF (19:41):
That, you hear a lot in China. YY
Can you can you explain that to a non-Chinese person
YY (19:48):
It’s a little bit like “Oh, that's fine”.
OF (19:51):
Right. YY
it could be better”.OF: Uh huh. Right. Well, I'm sure people living
in China have heard that pretty much everyday since they got here. 好吧 [Hǎo ba],
好吧 [hǎo ba]. If you left China, whatwould you miss the most, and what would you
miss the least?YY: Oh, miss the most, I think would be efficient
(20:15):
life. Yeah. Because, you know, China has 1.4billion people. Huge population here. So the
labour costs in China is very low. Which meansthere are a lot of people who could give you
different kinds of service in China. And it'svery cheap. And then the subway. Because I
remember in the US, maybe New York city hasa very big subway transportation system, but
(20:41):
in any other cities you have to drive by yourself,right? I can’t drive. So it's very hard
for me to live in the US. But I think ‘efficientlife’, what I mean about that is, you can
choose your way to live in the city. And no-onecan judge it.
Yeah. Is there anything that surprises you about modern life in China?
YY (21:05):
Well, I want to give the example of TikTok. OF
It's a little bit like Snapchat, but TikTok is focusing on the video part.
OF (21:16):
Yeah. YY
So I think the applications like TikTok havechanged a lot of things. They let people think
that video is not a very difficult thing tomake, and they can record their personal life.
For me, I think this changed a lot. Becausepeople now have the habit to record everything.
(21:39):
And do you think that that will maybe get people more interested in storytelling,
because everyone is getting used to tellingtheir own stories?
YY (21:47):
Maybe, maybe, but I think many people use TikTok just to think of themselves as
a celebrity for one minute.OF: Well, we'll see where that goes, right?
I must download TikTok, I still haven't downloadedit, but I find those kind of apps too confusing.
What's your favourite place to go, to eat,to drink, to hang out?
(22:10):
OK. So this question will show my boring part. I think usually a friend will recommend
some restaurant or coffee shop, and they willbring me there. And at that time, I will give
it a score, like “This restaurant is good”.But it doesn't mean I will come back.
OF (22:30):
Right. YY
Because I think if you think the place isyour favourite, you will go there many times,
right? So if you have to say the place I usuallygo, it’s a small noodle restaurant near
my house. I go there every day. But is itmy ‘favourite’, I don't think so.
(22:53):
I think that's one way of defining ‘favourite’. YY
If you go there that often then I think that counts. What kind of noodles is that
noodle shop?YY: It’s very traditional Chinese noodles,
大肠面 [dàcháng miàn].OF: Oh, large intestines.
YY (23:07):
Yeah. OF
But it’s pigs OF
It's very delicious. But I don't know whether it’s the most delicious. But for
me, I think it's delicious to eat.OF: So how often would you go there?
Maybe three times a week? OF
Yeah. Because it's very close to my house. OF
(23:29):
purchase you've recently made?YY: Well, I usually buy books, not any other
things. If I buy any other purchase, it’ssomething I truly need to use, like a new
microphone, new recorder. But if we talk aboutbooks, recently I read a book, ‘The Fifth
(23:52):
Risk’, written by Michael Lewis.OF: That’s fiction or non-fiction?
Non-fiction, it talks about the Trump administration.
OF (23:59):
Oh, got it. YY
wants to explain how Trump truly influencesthe US government system.
So you tend to buy the actual books, you don't tend to do the electronic version?
YY (24:15):
Oh, I tried the electronic version. I tried Kindle before. But finally, I think
the physical book is better.OF: Yeah. I'm the same, but maybe we're dying
out, our generation.YY: Yeah.
OF (24:29):
What is your favourite WeChat sticker? YY
very interesting popular phenomenon in China.It’s related to the former president 江泽民
[Jiāng Zémín].OF: OK.
YY (24:42):
And now he's more than 80 years old, and he has a lot of younger fans. Because the
younger people think he's interesting. Peoplelove him. And we make a lot of different stickers
about him. So I showed you one which is about“+1 second, +1 second’. It’s best wishes
(25:05):
to an old person, to him.OF: Ah, so what what it means is, to keep
on living, ‘keep living, keep living’.YY: Yeah.
OF (25:13):
That’s funny. Wow, I'm glad you explained it, I would not have understood it without
that.YY: Well Chinese leaders are just always poker
face. So that's very active. We’d neverseen this before.
Oh, how funny. Next question. What is your favourite go-to song to sing at KTV?
YY: OK, here's a song in Chinese called 最炫民族风 (25:31):
undefined
[Zuìxuàn mínzúfēng]. And It’s a miraclesong.
OF (25:37):
OK… YY
I think it is my go-to song, you know, atkaraoke. Because it's a very good song for
warming up.OF: Ah.
YY (25:49):
And for me, I think entertaining my friends is a very important thing for me. You know,
sometimes when we go to KTV, the first 20minutes is very embarrassing, right? Someone
is picking their own songs, someone is orderingdrinks and food, someone is chit-chatting.
And no-one is focusing on singing. So thissong is, you know, how do you say it?
OF (26:11):
It kind of makes everyone feel energetic, or..?
YY (26:13):
Yeah. OF
So it's a very good way for everyone to pay attention to you.
OF (26:18):
Right. YY
Yeah. YY
I need to do something”.OF: You’re a very useful person to have
a KTV, I think. And finally, what other China-relatedmedia or sources of information do you rely
on?YY: Well, if Chinese media, I think 财新
(26:43):
[Cáixīn] Media is the best choice. But it’sin the Chinese language. It's just professional
news, like FT and Bloomberg in the Englishworld is still very useful.
Right, so it's like the equivalent of FT, right?
YY (26:56):
Yeah. And I think the financial news is a good point in China to open very small door
for news.OF: Yeah, well said.
And if you talk about English, in my mind I think foreign media for China is very useful,
because you have freedom of speech. So youhave an opportunity to cover a lot of issues
(27:20):
that Chinese media can’t cover. But a lotof Western media surely have a stereotype
on China, among Chinese issues.OF: Yeah.
And I am still an editor and journalist, I know that feeling. It’s “Well, I have
a storyline. I want to introduce someone tofill in that blank”. And I think sometimes
(27:44):
it relies on some stereotype. If they havethe opportunity to get some new discovery,
they don't want to go into that. It is “Oh,that's that's not my storyline”.
OF (27:55):
Yes. Yes, because it doesn't fit the story that I want to write.
YY (27:59):
Yeah, but I am a big of foreign media, actually. But I still find their Chinese coverage
has some problem like that. So that's a littlebit, you know… For me, it's a combination.
OF (28:11):
Yeah. I like that. And I like that you can look at 财新 [Cáixīn], and then you
can look at foreign media, and then you canfind that somewhere in between there is something
called ‘the truth’.YY: Uh-huh.
Thank you so much for your time today, Yi.
YY (28:25):
Oh thank you Oscar. OF
quite a few different topics here. And thelast thing I will ask you before you leave
is out of everyone who you know in China,who should I interview in the next season
of Mosaic of China?YY: OK, I nominate Chu Yang. She's one of
my friends. And she's a very interesting girl,because she is tough. So I think she would
(28:48):
be very interesting. There are some kind ofvery challenging and tough persons in China
who care about world issues, feminism issues,and she was a journalist. So she’s maybe
experiencing some issues about journalismin China. So I think she has a lot of topics
for you to talk about.OF: That sounds great. I'm interested and
(29:08):
intimidated at the same time. Thanks Yi.YY: Thank you for having me. Oh, I have the
opportunity to say these words. Because Iwatch a lot of English-speaking programming,
and the guests say “Oh, thank you for havingme”. It’s my first time to say this.
OF (29:24):
You said it very well, thank you too. YY
[Outro]OF: So the main thing to unpack from today's
episode is the word 蛤 [há] that Yi casuallymentioned when describing the 江泽民 [Jiāng
Zémín] sticker. This 蛤 [há] means toad.I won't go into all the details here, but
you can look up ‘toad worship’ on theinternet to find out more. I kid you not.
(29:47):
It really reminds me of Episode 16, when Ninitalked about llamas. Sometimes the simplest
of things have a hidden complexity in China,especially when it comes to evading the censors.
The 江泽民 [Jiāng Zémín] WeChat stickeris of course on social media. If you're in
the WeChat group, you'll have seen the originalsticker. To join, please add me on my ID:
(30:09):
mosaicofchina, and I'll add you there myself.And otherwise, you can see screenshots of
the sticker on Instagram and Facebook. Sojust search for ‘mosaicofchina’, and you'll
find them there.
Apart from the sticker, there are lots ofother images online this week. We have Yi
with his object, his radio. And he was backin his hometown of 淮南 [Huáinán] over
the Chinese New Year, so he was able to takea photo of the original radio made in the
(30:33):
Soviet Union, which he mentioned. There'salso a couple of photos from 淮南 [Huáinán]
itself. Yi described it as a very small townin our chat, but it didn't surprise me to
discover that it has 2.3 million inhabitants.I’ve posted Yi’s phrase in Chinese, 好吧
[hǎo ba], which means something like “well,alright then”. That's in contrast to 好的
(30:55):
[hǎo de] which is a more emphatic way ofsaying ‘yes’ or ‘OK’. There's also
the logo of 'Vision On’, the programme fromthe UK that was aired at lunchtimes in 安徽
[Ānhuī] in the 90s. 'Vision On’ actuallyoriginally aired on BBC One in the UK in the
60s and 70s - so, a long time before it cameto 安徽 [Ānhuī] - and it was originally
(31:15):
designed specifically for children with hearingimpairments. It's a little bit before my time,
but I've definitely heard of it, and I'm suremost of the Brits out there have too. Speaking
of programmes, Yi mentioned that there area couple of storytelling shows breaking through
in the China podcast space at the moment.The most famous of these is definitely 故事FM.
If you can understand Mandarin, I would reallyrecommend it. And the exciting news is that
(31:38):
Yi himself has put his money where his mouthis. Since we recorded this interview together,
he has quit his day job at the TV stationand is now a full-time podcaster. More than
that he has also co-founded China's firstpodcasting company called JustPod, which now
produces a bunch of different shows. So I'mreally excited for Yi and I can't wait to
see where he - and the other China podcasterslike him - takes this medium in the future.
(32:04):
There are lots of other images, but I am takingtoo much time, so I'll just let you discover
them for yourselves.
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, artworkby Denny Newell, and extra support from Milo
de Prieto and Alston Gong. I am still planningon being here next week, and I hope the same
goes for you.
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