September 10, 2019 • 33 mins
Today’s guest is Jorge Luzio, who works for Coca-Cola as the Greater China Marketing Director for Sprite and Fanta. He’s originally from Venezuela, and has had an international marketing career with Coca-Cola in Caracas, Bogota, Atlanta and Mexico City before coming to China.
Digital marketing in China is a real science, and today’s recording is a masterclass. Jorge discusses how he and his team mix anthropological and societal insights with digital functionality to reveal fascinating insights about the Chinese consumer. He also addresses the uniqueness of the overall marketing landscape in China: the dominance of Tencent and Alibaba; the unparalleled acceptance of digital payments; the boundless availability of big data; and the digital savviness of the creative talent who are tasked to analyse it.
Chapters
00:00 - Trailer & Intro
02:56 - Part 1
24:32 - Part 2
30:47 - Outro
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Trailer]JL: But my
(00:02):
biggest sort of ‘aha moment’ is likemore of the commonalities that we have,
rather than the differences. I don't want totalk about ‘differences’, but rather ‘nuances’.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
So last week's episode with Astrid got a lotof nice feedback. Thank you to everyone who
(00:28):
commented on Instagram, Facebook and WeChat. I wasteased a bit for saying ‘ATM machine’. It's true,
I should have just said ATM. Otherwise, what I'msaying is ‘Automatic Teller Machine Machine’. I
actually do the same thing with ‘PIN number’, sowhat I'm saying there is ‘Personal Identification
Number Number.’ I don't know, maybe there'ssomething Freudian going on here, maybe I'm
(00:49):
just nervous when withdrawing money from my bankaccount. What does that say about me, I wonder?
One of the connections between last week's guestand this week’s, is that Astrid mentioned her
WeChat 朋友圈 [péngyǒuquān] for the placethat she finds out most of her news. So,
in English, this is your ‘WeChat Moments’, andwhat I forgot to explain last week is that this
is the equivalent of your Facebook timeline, oryour Instagram feed, here in China. In fact, Maple
(01:13):
in Episode 02 of this series also said that herWeChat moments was her main source of news too.
So this is the handy link to today's episode withJavier Luzio. Jorge works for Coca-Cola as the
Greater China Marketing Director for Sprite andFanta. There's a lot in this conversation about
WeChat, and the way in which marketers are usingthis platform, as well as those owned by the other
(01:36):
big giant Alibaba. Now, when I was younger, Ireally thought that marketing was just a study
of common sense. Well I was wrong, especially whenit comes to digital marketing here in China. This
is a real science, and today's recording is abit of a masterclass. We talk about some of the
really interesting market insights that Jorge andhis team discovered about the Chinese consumer,
and we talk about creativity in generalin China. We also talk about China's
(02:00):
unique digital landscape, which is dominated byAlibaba and Tencent. This last bit especially,
while being an easy lesson for any marketingexperts, may be a little dense with information
for everyone else. So to those people, letme say that you have nothing to worry about,
Jorge is a great speaker, and you'll be luredin by his Latin charms. Having said that,
(02:21):
there's one part in the middle where I myself gota little lost. I only truly understood what Jorge
was talking about when I heard it through a secondtime. But if he's talking about his experience
with the Schweppes brand, then that's a sign thatyou've already made it through the hardest part.
Jorge and I jumped straight into the chatwithout any ‘hello’s and ‘how do you do’s,
so let me quickly introduce him again. This isJorge Luzio, the Greater China Head of Marketing
(02:44):
for Sprite and Fanta. He's originally fromVenezuela, and he had an international marketing
career with Coca-Cola in Caracas, Bogota,Atlanta and Mexico City, before coming to China.
[Part 1]OF: What is your object that you brought in today?
JL (02:59):
Well, it could sound a little bit lame, but actually I brought a bottle of Sprite.
OF (03:05):
That's a very straightforward object. So tell me then,
what is your current job concerning Sprite?JL: I actually wanted to rephrase, a little bit,
the way Sprite is now in China. My point ofview is how can we can find more stickiness,
and a deeper relationship with consumers,in a more emotional way. Because I think
(03:26):
that refreshment, as it is right now, it's verygeneric. And there are a lot of people talking
about generic refreshment. It's not that we'vebeen attacked by other refreshment propositions,
but it's a diluting of what is the role ofSprite in people's lives. So we need to keep
(03:46):
reminding them, that actually it could bemore emotional than just pure refreshment.
So you’re refreshing the refreshment brand? JL
the emotionality of how we can use a brandto have a deeper relationship, that is more
intimate with them, with Chinese consumers.OF: Well, let's get straight into that part
(04:10):
then, so where do you even start? Like, how do you
work out what the Chinese consumer wants?JL: So when it comes to China, about that,
you start to understand “OK, what are thekey levers of consumption that you need to
attack?” Where it's like, Sprite is thebiggest brand of the Coca-Cola company
in this country. Having such a big brand, it’sa brand that… You don't need to do much about
(04:34):
people getting to know Sprite. But to help, asI mentioned before, to have a deeper connection,
deeper interaction of people, more frequency todrink. To be more relevant at different occasions,
rather than drinking occasionally.OF: Right. And so, how do you
pinpoint what those moments are?JL: The most important thing is mixing
(04:55):
art and science. The science part is getting thedata, is getting the right facts to understand
a particular business issue, or a particularopportunity that we have with our brands, or with
our portfolio, or with the projects that we have.So that's big data, that’s understanding different
(05:16):
data sources, and having clarity on how to getthis data, right. And the other part is more like
the art, which is like mixing real deep insights,anthropological studies, understanding and talking
to consumers in a more intimate way. So it's allabout mixing all this data to get the right facts
(05:38):
behind some hypothesis that you want to validate,in order to create things. And then the other part
is like how you can mix your… Actually, mostof the time we use common sense. And we use our
stomach to filter this hypothesis that we createdwith the data, to mingle it with something that
(06:02):
makes sense, and to craft a particular strategy.OF: So let's go to the first half then,
where you're doing the actual research. And youmentioned the anthropological side as well. So
when you give me an example. Like, what wasone of your insights that you found out about
the China market that you didn't know before?JL: One of the things that I found - that’s
a little bit different than other countries thatI've worked with - it’s about pressure. And social
(06:27):
pressure becomes something very, very relevantin terms of China. China is a country that has
developed dramatically over the last 40 years,and that has opened to the world over those 40
years. And this has generated a lot of pressureon people, on how they can define success, and
(06:48):
how they can strive for some aspirations that havebeen somehow imposed on them by this hectic idea
of what success looks like. And it's somethingthat surprisingly permeates different tiers of
society, by age, or by socio-economical status,by income, and even by regions. So it's very wide,
(07:18):
in terms of how the social pressure guidesa lot of their their thinking, and the way
they interact with consumption or with brands. Sothat's the striking one for me at the beginning.
Yeah, that’s a good example. And so, having learned that, did you devise a strategy
or a certain campaign around that knowledge?JL: Yes. For instance, Chinese New Year - CNY,
(07:45):
we call it - at CNY, people are… Even thoughit's a time to connect with their family,
it's a time to have a family gathering, it's atime to enjoy being together… For most people,
we have understood that it's a moment ofa lot of pressure. It's not only the the
(08:07):
emotional cost - the emotional and physicalcost, like money, that you need to spend to
go there - but actually, it’s time where there’sa lot of mental pressure. Why? Because - talking
about this societal pressure that people havein their mind - it’s also the time to get a
(08:28):
‘formal’ informal interview with your parents.So, the figure of the parent is so important
here - and especially the father - that youneed to go there, to explain to your father,
what is the scorecard of the year, in a way. Howmuch money are you earning? When are you going
(08:48):
to get a promotion? When are you going to getmarried? When are you moving, are you getting
a bigger house? What is the brand of your car?What do you think your boss thinks about you?
Yeah. JL
pressure. And there’s a lot of burden around that.OF: And I guess it's not just your father,
(09:12):
it’s the whole extended family aswell, right? Your uncles, your…
JL (09:14):
Yes, of course, of course. And it’s a moment for “So, what should I tell them? How do I look
smart? Not lose face in front of my family?”There's a lot of things at play around that. So,
coming back to what the heck refreshment meansaround this, it’s about this mental pressure that
puts you into a very difficult moment. When youneed to step back a little bit and say “You know
(09:38):
what? You shouldn't take this kind of thing thatseriously.” Because the whole brand expression,
the whole brand tonality and language for Spriteis very casual, it’s very informal, it's about
daring to be really authentically who you are, youdon’t need to be imposed on by anyone else. So we
found that this a very, very deep insight, andwe're playing around that. We started this year,
(10:02):
with our CNY campaign, and we’re evolving tomake it even more relevant, more tangible,
and more emotionally compelling to our consumers.So I think, in that way, how you can find a big
insight into the consumer is based on societalevidence - or a societal fact - and transforming
(10:26):
into a powerful insight. It's very interesting.OF: That's a great example. And I guess that was
something which you may not have known personallybefore coming to China. Like, what other
assumptions did you have before coming to China?JL: Well, several. Especially about thinking “Oh
my god, they should be so different”, right? Notonly because we look so different to each other,
(10:49):
but, like, the culture should be so different,the way they do things, the way they act. And yes,
there are some societal things that differentiateus. But my biggest sort of ‘aha moment’, when I
first started to work and collaborate and designthings for them, is like more of the commonalities
(11:14):
that we have, rather than the differences. Idon't want to talk about ‘differences’, but rather
‘nuances’. We all have the same needs. Apart fromthe fact that the penetration - or, like, the per
capita - of tea, or some herbals are bigger here,actually, the interaction with consumption - and
(11:36):
the interaction with beverages - is quite similar.OF: What about in terms of the team - you know,
the other marketing team here in China -did you have any assumptions about how it
would be to work with other Chinese employees?JL: Yes. Because you hear that… It's kind of this,
like, myth - or social myth - that, you know,Chinese are super good at executing things,
(11:59):
and copying things, and replicating things, and soin that way they're not very creative. Then I said
“Ah, it would be very difficult for me to developstrategies with them, or to create something,
or to develop something that is very creative”.And I was really, really surprised. I started
to interact with them. And yes, they’re machinesof working. Which I actually really envy in the
(12:28):
way that they’re so resilient. And then they'revery good at executing big projects - and big,
complex projects - in an amazing way. I wouldnever do that… We don't have these kind of
capabilities in our countries. But when it comesto creativity strategy, they have found a way to
(12:50):
be really pragmatic in using the kind of economiesof scale that they’ve generated - and have been
good at - and taking it to the next level. AndI think the instrumental tipping point to take
that to the other level is digitalisation. Andit's how everything is so digitised right now,
(13:11):
and how it has been evolved dramatically, theway we use digital - and digital ecosystems - to
take these ideas, and these massive,repetitive things into something that is
like out-of-the-box insight generation. So theyhave creativity, they have other soft skills,
(13:37):
but it's represented in a different way.OF: Right. And because the digital landscape
here is so different than anywhere else, Iguess there's a unique skillset here. Maybe
this is the right time to actually explainwhat that landscape looks like. We're talking
about the things like WeChat, the things likeWeibo and Alipay, all the things that we have
(13:57):
in China that don't exist elsewhere, right?JL: Definitely. It will be very difficult
to replicate in other parts of the world.Actually, one of the things that we want to do,
as a company, is to really understand what thekey things are that we can replicate in the rest
of our world. In my initial thinking, we canreplicate 40% or 50% of the things that can
(14:24):
be achieved here, or that we can activate here. Sobasically, there's like a duopoly here in terms of
big data of information, which is WeChat/TencentGroup and Alibaba Group. So they basically own the
whole data-mining and the whole data landscapein China. And this is something very unique,
(14:49):
that you cannot replicate in other partsof the world. First of all is the scale,
right. So the penetration of digital here is morethan 95%. And especially in a country that has
1.4 billion people. So just by that measure, thescale, and the amount of data that you can process
(15:13):
and you can get, and all the iterations thatyou can use behind that massive amount of data,
is unprecedented in any other part ofthe world, that's number one. Number two,
I think it's about digital payment. And digitalpayment, if I remember correctly, is more than
80% penetration. So imagine this 1.4 billionpeople and multiply by 0.8, it’s incredible,
(15:42):
the math. It generates a trillion interactions,in terms of money going from one point to another,
it's something that in any other parts of theworld - not even the U.N. all together - can get
this massiveness. And if they could, it wouldtake too long for them to to achieve that. The
(16:03):
other part is like the richness of how you can get- and how you can design something behind - this
big data, right. So WeChat, as you know, itstarted as the competitor of WhatsApp. Or no,
let me put it this way, because actually,there's an interesting thing that I found
when I came here. And it's about one conceptthat is named ‘Imminovation’, which is like
(16:27):
‘imitation’ + ‘innovation’. And this is somethingthat struck me, a lot, when I was here. And WeChat
is an example of that. Because it started asa ‘WhatsApp’, right. But then they said “OK,
how I can take a WhatsApp and make it intoa super app?” And it's not about chatting,
and sending photos, and sending voice notes topeople. It's about - and you know this, because
(16:53):
you live here - WeChat is our life. Everythingto do with our life - or the lives of people
that live here - can based on, or solved by,WeChat. Right? Because we can chat with it,
we can pay with it, you can have your socialnetworks around it, you can purchase things
(17:16):
in e-commerce through it, you can have stimuli andyou can have like a different entertainment around
it. So everything is there. So marketers like us,the biggest thing, as a start, is understanding
different levels of connections with withconsumers. Like in the rest of the world,
(17:43):
it’s kind of the same, you start with massmedia or you start with mass communication,
to generate main thrusts communication, to have acompelling widened reach of any particular point
of contact with people. So that's number one.And most of the things are happening ithrough
(18:03):
WeChat Moments, you can get different campaigns,or different above-the-line communications. OK,
that's the first one. And then the other part, thesecond one, it's more about, how you can generate
mini-apps or mini-programmes that actuallycan interact better, with more transactions,
(18:28):
or linkage to e-commerce. So in terms of WeChat -or these super apps - the fundamental thing that
is very different, and that we are leveraging alot, is how we can create platforms that help us
to approach our consumers, and solve some of thepain points that they have in their interactions
(18:52):
with categories, with products, right. So you needto be be there. And the other part - how you can
get more relevance for those ‘super users’, orpeople that are super loyal to your brand - is
to generate platforms with loyalty. And WeChat isa magnificent tool to do that. So there’s three
layers on that (19:16):
mass; transactional; and those loyalists, those ‘super users’ of your brand,
how you can have something that is moretangible in terms of rewards. So WeChat,
and all these ecosystems, are incredibly usefulfor us to have a deeper connection with consumers.
OF (19:38):
What about when you're trying to get market insights with - as you were saying before - this
sea of data? You’ve got a trillion data pointsnow, and you're linking it with payments as
well. What can you do on that side of things?JL: So I think it's separated, the two topics.
One is about insight generation. And insightgeneration based on big data is amazing,
(20:00):
because linkage to purchase is something thatis a consequence, or that is underlying the big
data. And let me explain a little bit, becauseit was very complicated to me, and it could be
complicated. So, to give you an example, howyou get insight from other parts of the world,
you go to Nielsen, you go to syndicated datathat they sell, or you buy the information from
(20:27):
them. And then they give you a segmentationof particular consumers, and they say “OK,
this is by age group, this is by socio-economiclevel, blah blah blah’. Here, you can go directly
to these big companies - or you can develop yourown data by interacting with them, so it's like
(20:47):
a virtuous circle - and then you can go and say“OK, I need to understand a particular beverage
consumption, let's say soda water”, which, bythe way, we have right, Schweppes soda water,
right. And then you say “OK, I want to understandbetter why people are drinking solar water so
(21:08):
fast”. And this is something that happened tome when I arrived. And then I said “Soda water?”
Because normally Schweppes is about mixers,right? So it was like “Oh, I didn't know that
they like to mix that much. I thought they weredrinking like 白酒 [báijiǔ] or something like that”.
And then I realised that people were drinkingsoda water for health reasons. So first of all,
(21:31):
I talked with these groups to say, like “Let mehear about everything that is said about soda
water. And let me understand - based on the data- not only about the way they purchase soda water,
but also about the way they talk and all theirsocial conversations that they have on social
(21:55):
media around soda water. So that I can shape andunderstand what the consumption landscape is, for
soda water”. And it's really interesting thatI found that the soda water was being consumed
by people that are taking care of their health.So, coming back to that, so you get big data to
(22:16):
understand social listening, and to understand whypeople are talking about a particular product. And
then you start, first of all, to segment, and tounderstand how to eat this elephant in pieces. And
then to understand, and create a hypothesis behindthat, that you eventually go and validate with
(22:37):
more traditional non-data-driven understanding,you go to anthropologists, you go to talk with
consumers, to reshape that, and then to generatesome some strategies behind it. The other part is
like how you can use this information, after youvalidate your hypothesis, to develop e-commerce
(22:59):
activations, and to say "OK, where should I putit? At what time should I put it there? What types
of communication do I need to use to havea compelling message?” And you can measure
everything here, about what kind of communicationis more appealing, what is the best click-to rate
to make these people get interested in purchasingmore, or to repeat their consumption. So it's
(23:28):
really eye-opening for me to understandhow you can leverage so much on digital,
to craft all your strategies and develop plans.OF: Because you actually see the the purchasing
of your product in real time. Like, as you areactivating something in the market, you can then
see how many people are purchasing the product?JL: Definitely. And in real time, you can not only
(23:52):
take decisions - on what are the things that areworking on not in terms of your communications,
the connections that you are having - but alsoto have a direct dialogue with your consumers,
and start getting feedback on innovations,on things that they value the most. So it's
(24:14):
really rich, in terms of what you can learn.OF: Well, thanks so much. And I look forward
to seeing what's going to happen next here.It just seems like this is one area, of many,
that China is way ahead of the rest of the world.
JL (24:26):
Definitely. OF
[Part 2]OF: The second part, being the 10
questions. So let's jump into Question 1.JL: Great.
OF (24:38):
What is your favourite China-related fact? JL
them, and I think it's related to massiveness.I realised that there are 675 million active
gamers in China.OF: Wow.
JL (24:53):
So I don't know what the population of Europe is, but I think it's less than
that. So imagine more than the populationof Europe playing games every day of their
lives. So for me that's like ‘wow’.OF: Wow. And that's one segment of
the market that you particularly target?JL: I would say that we target… Sprite
(25:14):
is a big, big brand, so we focuson a wide part of the population.
OF (25:19):
Mmm. Do you have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?
JL (25:22):
Well, honestly - and I feel very bad because I don't speak very good Chinese - I
would say that amongst my phrases,which is very, very few, is 黄陂南路/复兴路
[Huángpi Nánlù/Fùxīng Lù], which is my street.OF: What's your favourite destination
within China?JL: Shanghai.
OF (25:43):
Ah right, you're very loyal. JL
from day one. And yes, I think China has fantasticplaces. But every time I feel more amazed, and I
love the city even more. So it would be Shanghai.OF: If you left China, what would you miss the
(26:04):
most, and what would you miss the least?JL: Oh, it's very easy. WeChat
speakers.OF: Right. Yep.
JL (26:09):
I have to send you something. OF
And what about the least?JL: Well I would say - and it's
not about talking about different manners - butit's about burping. It still strikes me…. I don't
feel disgust, but I feel like… It is so… For me,it makes me laugh every time that I hear it. And
(26:33):
it's so natural for people, for any kind of peopleit’s super normal to do that in the middle of a
meeting, and it’s… I will not miss that.OF: Right. Is there anything that still
surprises you about life in China?JL: It's about what we discussed before,
it’s about ‘differences’ versus ‘nuances’.But the nuances make big difference.s And.
(26:58):
it's about the way that their minds arepre-set. Every time that I try to think
about the logic that they're using, to respondto certain stimuli, it strikes me the most.
OF (27:12):
So each time you learn a new insight, it's a new surprise.
JL (27:14):
Definitely. OF
to eat, drink, to hang out?JL: Well, my terrace.
OF (27:22):
Right. JL
I like my terrace. And we throw amazing partiesthere. I really enjoy having people come over to
the terrace and enjoy the good weather.OF: What's the best or worst
purchase you've made in China?JL: My scooter, definitely. I love it.
What is your favourite WeChat sticker? JL
(27:46):
in Mexico. Actually, I was so surprised toreceive that here in China, you know, on the
other side of the world. And it’s this beautifulgirl, but it’s so eighties, and so old-fashioned,
and yet so insightful and so current right now.And so that's my favourite one. You can use it for
(28:12):
several types of emotions. So yeah, I love it.OF: And you know what, it has a great caption,
but I'm not gonna ruin it. I'm gonna let peoplelook at it on social media. Very funny, thank you.
What's your go to song to sing at karaoke?JL: Surprisingly, it's a Chinese song,飞得更高
[Fēidé gèng gāo]. I had to learn it, because… Idon't know if you know, but at most companies,
(28:38):
in the first year that you arrive, you need toperform at the annual dinner. So I needed to
perform, and they said “What can you do?” AndI said "Well, I think I like singing”. So they
said “Oh yeah, yeah, let’s put you to sing.”And I said “Oh my God, I need to…” And then,
I was on a business trip in 广州 [Guǎngzhōu], andI was listening to this song. And I said “Oh this
(29:04):
song is so beautiful”. And they told me what thesong was about, it was about overcoming problems.
And we were having this super troublesomeproject at that time. And so I said “Oh, this
is so perfect”. So the song is about that,‘我要飞得更高 [Wǒ yào fēide gèng gāo].’ So that’s
(29:25):
the one that I sing.OF: Amazing. And finally,
what other China-related media, or justgeneral sources of information, do you rely on?
JL (29:34):
Well, the lame ones, the normal ones that we have on WeChat, like SmartShanghai. But honestly
speaking, I get very, very educated, and Iget a lot of information, when I talk with my
media agencies, and in general with my agencies.They put us in contact with the latest trends,
and things that are happening in the socialand digital landscape. So every time that I
(30:01):
interact… We do this periodically, andI get a lot of information and insights
from them. So I would say that.OF: Great. Well, thanks again,
Jorge, it’s great to have you here.JL: Thank you. Thank you for having me,
I really enjoyed this.OF: Me too. Oh, and the
last question.JL: Yeah
OF (30:17):
Out of all the people you know in China, who should I interview next?
JL (30:20):
I have this super interesting Chinese girlfriend. Her name is Amelia. And I think
you would love to talk to her. She's a superavid traveller, she’s a bon-vivant. She’s really
interesting, I think you should talk to her.OF: Brilliant. Well, I can't wait to meet
(30:43):
Amelia. Thanks so much, Jorge.JL: Thank you very much again.
[Outro]OF: Thanks
again to Jorge for this. I warned you, itwas dense. So let me jump straight in with
some information about the graphics that I'veposted on our social media accounts. There's
one graph showing the number of users in Chinaaccessing the internet via mobile devices. The
(31:03):
number is actually 98.6% of all internetusers, so that's a little different to the
numbers that hook I mentioned off the cuff inour interview. I did also find another graphic
showing the swift pace of mobile paymentsadoption in China, projected at around 80%
of smartphone users. That's compared to around30% in the US, and closer to 20% in Germany.
(31:24):
Jorge also mentioned 白酒 [báijiǔ], he said itwhen speaking about soda water, where he was
surprised that Chinese people were buying so manymixers, when he thought that people mainly drank
白酒 [báijiǔ]. So let me explain this, 白酒 [báijiǔ]is an alcoholic drink in China, it translates as
‘clear spirit’ or literally ‘white spirit’. Manypeople would certainly say it has the same taste
as white spirit. It's closest to Korean soju, it’smade from certain grains, and it's always served
(31:49):
neat. And in the same story, Jorge also mentionedthat the marketing team had heard chatter about
soda water from health-conscious people on Chinesesocial media. What I wanted to make clear was that
it was those people who were making those claims,and Jorge himself wasn't making any health claims.
What else? Burping. So yes, you definitely seeit and you hear it more in China than elsewhere,
that's a fact. But that's not to say thateveryone in China actually thinks it's fine,
(32:13):
outside of the context of enjoying a meal. WhatI'd say is that most Chinese people overlook it,
if someone else burps. I think in China, it'sprobably ruder to be the one who is chastising
others for burping, than being the onewho's burping themselves. That's why,
as the only foreigner in the meeting,when someone else burps you will be
the only one with the ‘Seriously? Did noone else hear that?’ look on your face.
(32:34):
Jorge’s favourite WeChat sticker is also upon social media. The best place to see WeChat
stickers is, of course, on WeChat. So please findme there on Username: mosaicofchina and I'll add
you to the group. The Mexican telenovela characterin this sticker is called Soraja Montenegro,
she is apparently enjoying a resurgence on socialmedia, because of the overly dramatic performance
(32:54):
of the actress who plays her. The song 飞得更高 [Fēidégèng gāo] is by 汪峰 [Wāng Fēng], it simply means
‘Fly Higher’. And finally, I like it that Jorge’sfavourite place to hang out was his terrace,
that couples nice with one of Astrid from lastweek's answers to the same question, which was
‘anywhere with a terrace’. And also, Jorge’s bestpurchase in China was his scooter, which is the
(33:15):
same answer that Philippe from Shanghai Disneylandgave in his answer in Episode One of this series.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, editingby Milo de Prieto, artwork by Denny Newell,
and China technical support from AlstonGong. Thank you very much for the ratings
and the comments on iTunes, or wherever youdownload this podcast. It really does help to
spread the word. Thank you for listening allthe way to the end, and see you next week.
[Trailer]JL: But my
(00:02):
biggest sort of ‘aha moment’ is likemore of the commonalities that we have,
rather than the differences. I don't want totalk about ‘differences’, but rather ‘nuances’.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
So last week's episode with Astrid got a lotof nice feedback. Thank you to everyone who
(00:28):
commented on Instagram, Facebook and WeChat. I wasteased a bit for saying ‘ATM machine’. It's true,
I should have just said ATM. Otherwise, what I'msaying is ‘Automatic Teller Machine Machine’. I
actually do the same thing with ‘PIN number’, sowhat I'm saying there is ‘Personal Identification
Number Number.’ I don't know, maybe there'ssomething Freudian going on here, maybe I'm
(00:49):
just nervous when withdrawing money from my bankaccount. What does that say about me, I wonder?
One of the connections between last week's guestand this week’s, is that Astrid mentioned her
WeChat 朋友圈 [péngyǒuquān] for the placethat she finds out most of her news. So,
in English, this is your ‘WeChat Moments’, andwhat I forgot to explain last week is that this
is the equivalent of your Facebook timeline, oryour Instagram feed, here in China. In fact, Maple
(01:13):
in Episode 02 of this series also said that herWeChat moments was her main source of news too.
So this is the handy link to today's episode withJavier Luzio. Jorge works for Coca-Cola as the
Greater China Marketing Director for Sprite andFanta. There's a lot in this conversation about
WeChat, and the way in which marketers are usingthis platform, as well as those owned by the other
(01:36):
big giant Alibaba. Now, when I was younger, Ireally thought that marketing was just a study
of common sense. Well I was wrong, especially whenit comes to digital marketing here in China. This
is a real science, and today's recording is abit of a masterclass. We talk about some of the
really interesting market insights that Jorge andhis team discovered about the Chinese consumer,
and we talk about creativity in generalin China. We also talk about China's
(02:00):
unique digital landscape, which is dominated byAlibaba and Tencent. This last bit especially,
while being an easy lesson for any marketingexperts, may be a little dense with information
for everyone else. So to those people, letme say that you have nothing to worry about,
Jorge is a great speaker, and you'll be luredin by his Latin charms. Having said that,
(02:21):
there's one part in the middle where I myself gota little lost. I only truly understood what Jorge
was talking about when I heard it through a secondtime. But if he's talking about his experience
with the Schweppes brand, then that's a sign thatyou've already made it through the hardest part.
Jorge and I jumped straight into the chatwithout any ‘hello’s and ‘how do you do’s,
so let me quickly introduce him again. This isJorge Luzio, the Greater China Head of Marketing
(02:44):
for Sprite and Fanta. He's originally fromVenezuela, and he had an international marketing
career with Coca-Cola in Caracas, Bogota,Atlanta and Mexico City, before coming to China.
[Part 1]OF: What is your object that you brought in today?
JL (02:59):
Well, it could sound a little bit lame, but actually I brought a bottle of Sprite.
OF (03:05):
That's a very straightforward object. So tell me then,
what is your current job concerning Sprite?JL: I actually wanted to rephrase, a little bit,
the way Sprite is now in China. My point ofview is how can we can find more stickiness,
and a deeper relationship with consumers,in a more emotional way. Because I think
(03:26):
that refreshment, as it is right now, it's verygeneric. And there are a lot of people talking
about generic refreshment. It's not that we'vebeen attacked by other refreshment propositions,
but it's a diluting of what is the role ofSprite in people's lives. So we need to keep
(03:46):
reminding them, that actually it could bemore emotional than just pure refreshment.
So you’re refreshing the refreshment brand? JL
the emotionality of how we can use a brandto have a deeper relationship, that is more
intimate with them, with Chinese consumers.OF: Well, let's get straight into that part
(04:10):
then, so where do you even start? Like, how do you
work out what the Chinese consumer wants?JL: So when it comes to China, about that,
you start to understand “OK, what are thekey levers of consumption that you need to
attack?” Where it's like, Sprite is thebiggest brand of the Coca-Cola company
in this country. Having such a big brand, it’sa brand that… You don't need to do much about
(04:34):
people getting to know Sprite. But to help, asI mentioned before, to have a deeper connection,
deeper interaction of people, more frequency todrink. To be more relevant at different occasions,
rather than drinking occasionally.OF: Right. And so, how do you
pinpoint what those moments are?JL: The most important thing is mixing
(04:55):
art and science. The science part is getting thedata, is getting the right facts to understand
a particular business issue, or a particularopportunity that we have with our brands, or with
our portfolio, or with the projects that we have.So that's big data, that’s understanding different
(05:16):
data sources, and having clarity on how to getthis data, right. And the other part is more like
the art, which is like mixing real deep insights,anthropological studies, understanding and talking
to consumers in a more intimate way. So it's allabout mixing all this data to get the right facts
(05:38):
behind some hypothesis that you want to validate,in order to create things. And then the other part
is like how you can mix your… Actually, mostof the time we use common sense. And we use our
stomach to filter this hypothesis that we createdwith the data, to mingle it with something that
(06:02):
makes sense, and to craft a particular strategy.OF: So let's go to the first half then,
where you're doing the actual research. And youmentioned the anthropological side as well. So
when you give me an example. Like, what wasone of your insights that you found out about
the China market that you didn't know before?JL: One of the things that I found - that’s
a little bit different than other countries thatI've worked with - it’s about pressure. And social
(06:27):
pressure becomes something very, very relevantin terms of China. China is a country that has
developed dramatically over the last 40 years,and that has opened to the world over those 40
years. And this has generated a lot of pressureon people, on how they can define success, and
(06:48):
how they can strive for some aspirations that havebeen somehow imposed on them by this hectic idea
of what success looks like. And it's somethingthat surprisingly permeates different tiers of
society, by age, or by socio-economical status,by income, and even by regions. So it's very wide,
(07:18):
in terms of how the social pressure guidesa lot of their their thinking, and the way
they interact with consumption or with brands. Sothat's the striking one for me at the beginning.
Yeah, that’s a good example. And so, having learned that, did you devise a strategy
or a certain campaign around that knowledge?JL: Yes. For instance, Chinese New Year - CNY,
(07:45):
we call it - at CNY, people are… Even thoughit's a time to connect with their family,
it's a time to have a family gathering, it's atime to enjoy being together… For most people,
we have understood that it's a moment ofa lot of pressure. It's not only the the
(08:07):
emotional cost - the emotional and physicalcost, like money, that you need to spend to
go there - but actually, it’s time where there’sa lot of mental pressure. Why? Because - talking
about this societal pressure that people havein their mind - it’s also the time to get a
(08:28):
‘formal’ informal interview with your parents.So, the figure of the parent is so important
here - and especially the father - that youneed to go there, to explain to your father,
what is the scorecard of the year, in a way. Howmuch money are you earning? When are you going
(08:48):
to get a promotion? When are you going to getmarried? When are you moving, are you getting
a bigger house? What is the brand of your car?What do you think your boss thinks about you?
Yeah. JL
pressure. And there’s a lot of burden around that.OF: And I guess it's not just your father,
(09:12):
it’s the whole extended family aswell, right? Your uncles, your…
JL (09:14):
Yes, of course, of course. And it’s a moment for “So, what should I tell them? How do I look
smart? Not lose face in front of my family?”There's a lot of things at play around that. So,
coming back to what the heck refreshment meansaround this, it’s about this mental pressure that
puts you into a very difficult moment. When youneed to step back a little bit and say “You know
(09:38):
what? You shouldn't take this kind of thing thatseriously.” Because the whole brand expression,
the whole brand tonality and language for Spriteis very casual, it’s very informal, it's about
daring to be really authentically who you are, youdon’t need to be imposed on by anyone else. So we
found that this a very, very deep insight, andwe're playing around that. We started this year,
(10:02):
with our CNY campaign, and we’re evolving tomake it even more relevant, more tangible,
and more emotionally compelling to our consumers.So I think, in that way, how you can find a big
insight into the consumer is based on societalevidence - or a societal fact - and transforming
(10:26):
into a powerful insight. It's very interesting.OF: That's a great example. And I guess that was
something which you may not have known personallybefore coming to China. Like, what other
assumptions did you have before coming to China?JL: Well, several. Especially about thinking “Oh
my god, they should be so different”, right? Notonly because we look so different to each other,
(10:49):
but, like, the culture should be so different,the way they do things, the way they act. And yes,
there are some societal things that differentiateus. But my biggest sort of ‘aha moment’, when I
first started to work and collaborate and designthings for them, is like more of the commonalities
(11:14):
that we have, rather than the differences. Idon't want to talk about ‘differences’, but rather
‘nuances’. We all have the same needs. Apart fromthe fact that the penetration - or, like, the per
capita - of tea, or some herbals are bigger here,actually, the interaction with consumption - and
(11:36):
the interaction with beverages - is quite similar.OF: What about in terms of the team - you know,
the other marketing team here in China -did you have any assumptions about how it
would be to work with other Chinese employees?JL: Yes. Because you hear that… It's kind of this,
like, myth - or social myth - that, you know,Chinese are super good at executing things,
(11:59):
and copying things, and replicating things, and soin that way they're not very creative. Then I said
“Ah, it would be very difficult for me to developstrategies with them, or to create something,
or to develop something that is very creative”.And I was really, really surprised. I started
to interact with them. And yes, they’re machinesof working. Which I actually really envy in the
(12:28):
way that they’re so resilient. And then they'revery good at executing big projects - and big,
complex projects - in an amazing way. I wouldnever do that… We don't have these kind of
capabilities in our countries. But when it comesto creativity strategy, they have found a way to
(12:50):
be really pragmatic in using the kind of economiesof scale that they’ve generated - and have been
good at - and taking it to the next level. AndI think the instrumental tipping point to take
that to the other level is digitalisation. Andit's how everything is so digitised right now,
(13:11):
and how it has been evolved dramatically, theway we use digital - and digital ecosystems - to
take these ideas, and these massive,repetitive things into something that is
like out-of-the-box insight generation. So theyhave creativity, they have other soft skills,
(13:37):
but it's represented in a different way.OF: Right. And because the digital landscape
here is so different than anywhere else, Iguess there's a unique skillset here. Maybe
this is the right time to actually explainwhat that landscape looks like. We're talking
about the things like WeChat, the things likeWeibo and Alipay, all the things that we have
(13:57):
in China that don't exist elsewhere, right?JL: Definitely. It will be very difficult
to replicate in other parts of the world.Actually, one of the things that we want to do,
as a company, is to really understand what thekey things are that we can replicate in the rest
of our world. In my initial thinking, we canreplicate 40% or 50% of the things that can
(14:24):
be achieved here, or that we can activate here. Sobasically, there's like a duopoly here in terms of
big data of information, which is WeChat/TencentGroup and Alibaba Group. So they basically own the
whole data-mining and the whole data landscapein China. And this is something very unique,
(14:49):
that you cannot replicate in other partsof the world. First of all is the scale,
right. So the penetration of digital here is morethan 95%. And especially in a country that has
1.4 billion people. So just by that measure, thescale, and the amount of data that you can process
(15:13):
and you can get, and all the iterations thatyou can use behind that massive amount of data,
is unprecedented in any other part ofthe world, that's number one. Number two,
I think it's about digital payment. And digitalpayment, if I remember correctly, is more than
80% penetration. So imagine this 1.4 billionpeople and multiply by 0.8, it’s incredible,
(15:42):
the math. It generates a trillion interactions,in terms of money going from one point to another,
it's something that in any other parts of theworld - not even the U.N. all together - can get
this massiveness. And if they could, it wouldtake too long for them to to achieve that. The
(16:03):
other part is like the richness of how you can get- and how you can design something behind - this
big data, right. So WeChat, as you know, itstarted as the competitor of WhatsApp. Or no,
let me put it this way, because actually,there's an interesting thing that I found
when I came here. And it's about one conceptthat is named ‘Imminovation’, which is like
(16:27):
‘imitation’ + ‘innovation’. And this is somethingthat struck me, a lot, when I was here. And WeChat
is an example of that. Because it started asa ‘WhatsApp’, right. But then they said “OK,
how I can take a WhatsApp and make it intoa super app?” And it's not about chatting,
and sending photos, and sending voice notes topeople. It's about - and you know this, because
(16:53):
you live here - WeChat is our life. Everythingto do with our life - or the lives of people
that live here - can based on, or solved by,WeChat. Right? Because we can chat with it,
we can pay with it, you can have your socialnetworks around it, you can purchase things
(17:16):
in e-commerce through it, you can have stimuli andyou can have like a different entertainment around
it. So everything is there. So marketers like us,the biggest thing, as a start, is understanding
different levels of connections with withconsumers. Like in the rest of the world,
(17:43):
it’s kind of the same, you start with massmedia or you start with mass communication,
to generate main thrusts communication, to have acompelling widened reach of any particular point
of contact with people. So that's number one.And most of the things are happening ithrough
(18:03):
WeChat Moments, you can get different campaigns,or different above-the-line communications. OK,
that's the first one. And then the other part, thesecond one, it's more about, how you can generate
mini-apps or mini-programmes that actuallycan interact better, with more transactions,
(18:28):
or linkage to e-commerce. So in terms of WeChat -or these super apps - the fundamental thing that
is very different, and that we are leveraging alot, is how we can create platforms that help us
to approach our consumers, and solve some of thepain points that they have in their interactions
(18:52):
with categories, with products, right. So you needto be be there. And the other part - how you can
get more relevance for those ‘super users’, orpeople that are super loyal to your brand - is
to generate platforms with loyalty. And WeChat isa magnificent tool to do that. So there’s three
layers on that (19:16):
mass; transactional; and those loyalists, those ‘super users’ of your brand,
how you can have something that is moretangible in terms of rewards. So WeChat,
and all these ecosystems, are incredibly usefulfor us to have a deeper connection with consumers.
OF (19:38):
What about when you're trying to get market insights with - as you were saying before - this
sea of data? You’ve got a trillion data pointsnow, and you're linking it with payments as
well. What can you do on that side of things?JL: So I think it's separated, the two topics.
One is about insight generation. And insightgeneration based on big data is amazing,
(20:00):
because linkage to purchase is something thatis a consequence, or that is underlying the big
data. And let me explain a little bit, becauseit was very complicated to me, and it could be
complicated. So, to give you an example, howyou get insight from other parts of the world,
you go to Nielsen, you go to syndicated datathat they sell, or you buy the information from
(20:27):
them. And then they give you a segmentationof particular consumers, and they say “OK,
this is by age group, this is by socio-economiclevel, blah blah blah’. Here, you can go directly
to these big companies - or you can develop yourown data by interacting with them, so it's like
(20:47):
a virtuous circle - and then you can go and say“OK, I need to understand a particular beverage
consumption, let's say soda water”, which, bythe way, we have right, Schweppes soda water,
right. And then you say “OK, I want to understandbetter why people are drinking solar water so
(21:08):
fast”. And this is something that happened tome when I arrived. And then I said “Soda water?”
Because normally Schweppes is about mixers,right? So it was like “Oh, I didn't know that
they like to mix that much. I thought they weredrinking like 白酒 [báijiǔ] or something like that”.
And then I realised that people were drinkingsoda water for health reasons. So first of all,
(21:31):
I talked with these groups to say, like “Let mehear about everything that is said about soda
water. And let me understand - based on the data- not only about the way they purchase soda water,
but also about the way they talk and all theirsocial conversations that they have on social
(21:55):
media around soda water. So that I can shape andunderstand what the consumption landscape is, for
soda water”. And it's really interesting thatI found that the soda water was being consumed
by people that are taking care of their health.So, coming back to that, so you get big data to
(22:16):
understand social listening, and to understand whypeople are talking about a particular product. And
then you start, first of all, to segment, and tounderstand how to eat this elephant in pieces. And
then to understand, and create a hypothesis behindthat, that you eventually go and validate with
(22:37):
more traditional non-data-driven understanding,you go to anthropologists, you go to talk with
consumers, to reshape that, and then to generatesome some strategies behind it. The other part is
like how you can use this information, after youvalidate your hypothesis, to develop e-commerce
(22:59):
activations, and to say "OK, where should I putit? At what time should I put it there? What types
of communication do I need to use to havea compelling message?” And you can measure
everything here, about what kind of communicationis more appealing, what is the best click-to rate
to make these people get interested in purchasingmore, or to repeat their consumption. So it's
(23:28):
really eye-opening for me to understandhow you can leverage so much on digital,
to craft all your strategies and develop plans.OF: Because you actually see the the purchasing
of your product in real time. Like, as you areactivating something in the market, you can then
see how many people are purchasing the product?JL: Definitely. And in real time, you can not only
(23:52):
take decisions - on what are the things that areworking on not in terms of your communications,
the connections that you are having - but alsoto have a direct dialogue with your consumers,
and start getting feedback on innovations,on things that they value the most. So it's
(24:14):
really rich, in terms of what you can learn.OF: Well, thanks so much. And I look forward
to seeing what's going to happen next here.It just seems like this is one area, of many,
that China is way ahead of the rest of the world.
JL (24:26):
Definitely. OF
[Part 2]OF: The second part, being the 10
questions. So let's jump into Question 1.JL: Great.
OF (24:38):
What is your favourite China-related fact? JL
them, and I think it's related to massiveness.I realised that there are 675 million active
gamers in China.OF: Wow.
JL (24:53):
So I don't know what the population of Europe is, but I think it's less than
that. So imagine more than the populationof Europe playing games every day of their
lives. So for me that's like ‘wow’.OF: Wow. And that's one segment of
the market that you particularly target?JL: I would say that we target… Sprite
(25:14):
is a big, big brand, so we focuson a wide part of the population.
OF (25:19):
Mmm. Do you have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?
JL (25:22):
Well, honestly - and I feel very bad because I don't speak very good Chinese - I
would say that amongst my phrases,which is very, very few, is 黄陂南路/复兴路
[Huángpi Nánlù/Fùxīng Lù], which is my street.OF: What's your favourite destination
within China?JL: Shanghai.
OF (25:43):
Ah right, you're very loyal. JL
from day one. And yes, I think China has fantasticplaces. But every time I feel more amazed, and I
love the city even more. So it would be Shanghai.OF: If you left China, what would you miss the
(26:04):
most, and what would you miss the least?JL: Oh, it's very easy. WeChat
speakers.OF: Right. Yep.
JL (26:09):
I have to send you something. OF
And what about the least?JL: Well I would say - and it's
not about talking about different manners - butit's about burping. It still strikes me…. I don't
feel disgust, but I feel like… It is so… For me,it makes me laugh every time that I hear it. And
(26:33):
it's so natural for people, for any kind of peopleit’s super normal to do that in the middle of a
meeting, and it’s… I will not miss that.OF: Right. Is there anything that still
surprises you about life in China?JL: It's about what we discussed before,
it’s about ‘differences’ versus ‘nuances’.But the nuances make big difference.s And.
(26:58):
it's about the way that their minds arepre-set. Every time that I try to think
about the logic that they're using, to respondto certain stimuli, it strikes me the most.
OF (27:12):
So each time you learn a new insight, it's a new surprise.
JL (27:14):
Definitely. OF
to eat, drink, to hang out?JL: Well, my terrace.
OF (27:22):
Right. JL
I like my terrace. And we throw amazing partiesthere. I really enjoy having people come over to
the terrace and enjoy the good weather.OF: What's the best or worst
purchase you've made in China?JL: My scooter, definitely. I love it.
What is your favourite WeChat sticker? JL
(27:46):
in Mexico. Actually, I was so surprised toreceive that here in China, you know, on the
other side of the world. And it’s this beautifulgirl, but it’s so eighties, and so old-fashioned,
and yet so insightful and so current right now.And so that's my favourite one. You can use it for
(28:12):
several types of emotions. So yeah, I love it.OF: And you know what, it has a great caption,
but I'm not gonna ruin it. I'm gonna let peoplelook at it on social media. Very funny, thank you.
What's your go to song to sing at karaoke?JL: Surprisingly, it's a Chinese song,飞得更高
[Fēidé gèng gāo]. I had to learn it, because… Idon't know if you know, but at most companies,
(28:38):
in the first year that you arrive, you need toperform at the annual dinner. So I needed to
perform, and they said “What can you do?” AndI said "Well, I think I like singing”. So they
said “Oh yeah, yeah, let’s put you to sing.”And I said “Oh my God, I need to…” And then,
I was on a business trip in 广州 [Guǎngzhōu], andI was listening to this song. And I said “Oh this
(29:04):
song is so beautiful”. And they told me what thesong was about, it was about overcoming problems.
And we were having this super troublesomeproject at that time. And so I said “Oh, this
is so perfect”. So the song is about that,‘我要飞得更高 [Wǒ yào fēide gèng gāo].’ So that’s
(29:25):
the one that I sing.OF: Amazing. And finally,
what other China-related media, or justgeneral sources of information, do you rely on?
JL (29:34):
Well, the lame ones, the normal ones that we have on WeChat, like SmartShanghai. But honestly
speaking, I get very, very educated, and Iget a lot of information, when I talk with my
media agencies, and in general with my agencies.They put us in contact with the latest trends,
and things that are happening in the socialand digital landscape. So every time that I
(30:01):
interact… We do this periodically, andI get a lot of information and insights
from them. So I would say that.OF: Great. Well, thanks again,
Jorge, it’s great to have you here.JL: Thank you. Thank you for having me,
I really enjoyed this.OF: Me too. Oh, and the
last question.JL: Yeah
OF (30:17):
Out of all the people you know in China, who should I interview next?
JL (30:20):
I have this super interesting Chinese girlfriend. Her name is Amelia. And I think
you would love to talk to her. She's a superavid traveller, she’s a bon-vivant. She’s really
interesting, I think you should talk to her.OF: Brilliant. Well, I can't wait to meet
(30:43):
Amelia. Thanks so much, Jorge.JL: Thank you very much again.
[Outro]OF: Thanks
again to Jorge for this. I warned you, itwas dense. So let me jump straight in with
some information about the graphics that I'veposted on our social media accounts. There's
one graph showing the number of users in Chinaaccessing the internet via mobile devices. The
(31:03):
number is actually 98.6% of all internetusers, so that's a little different to the
numbers that hook I mentioned off the cuff inour interview. I did also find another graphic
showing the swift pace of mobile paymentsadoption in China, projected at around 80%
of smartphone users. That's compared to around30% in the US, and closer to 20% in Germany.
(31:24):
Jorge also mentioned 白酒 [báijiǔ], he said itwhen speaking about soda water, where he was
surprised that Chinese people were buying so manymixers, when he thought that people mainly drank
白酒 [báijiǔ]. So let me explain this, 白酒 [báijiǔ]is an alcoholic drink in China, it translates as
‘clear spirit’ or literally ‘white spirit’. Manypeople would certainly say it has the same taste
as white spirit. It's closest to Korean soju, it’smade from certain grains, and it's always served
(31:49):
neat. And in the same story, Jorge also mentionedthat the marketing team had heard chatter about
soda water from health-conscious people on Chinesesocial media. What I wanted to make clear was that
it was those people who were making those claims,and Jorge himself wasn't making any health claims.
What else? Burping. So yes, you definitely seeit and you hear it more in China than elsewhere,
that's a fact. But that's not to say thateveryone in China actually thinks it's fine,
(32:13):
outside of the context of enjoying a meal. WhatI'd say is that most Chinese people overlook it,
if someone else burps. I think in China, it'sprobably ruder to be the one who is chastising
others for burping, than being the onewho's burping themselves. That's why,
as the only foreigner in the meeting,when someone else burps you will be
the only one with the ‘Seriously? Did noone else hear that?’ look on your face.
(32:34):
Jorge’s favourite WeChat sticker is also upon social media. The best place to see WeChat
stickers is, of course, on WeChat. So please findme there on Username: mosaicofchina and I'll add
you to the group. The Mexican telenovela characterin this sticker is called Soraja Montenegro,
she is apparently enjoying a resurgence on socialmedia, because of the overly dramatic performance
(32:54):
of the actress who plays her. The song 飞得更高 [Fēidégèng gāo] is by 汪峰 [Wāng Fēng], it simply means
‘Fly Higher’. And finally, I like it that Jorge’sfavourite place to hang out was his terrace,
that couples nice with one of Astrid from lastweek's answers to the same question, which was
‘anywhere with a terrace’. And also, Jorge’s bestpurchase in China was his scooter, which is the
(33:15):
same answer that Philippe from Shanghai Disneylandgave in his answer in Episode One of this series.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, editingby Milo de Prieto, artwork by Denny Newell,
and China technical support from AlstonGong. Thank you very much for the ratings
and the comments on iTunes, or wherever youdownload this podcast. It really does help to
spread the word. Thank you for listening allthe way to the end, and see you next week.
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