August 19, 2019 • 35 mins
This week’s recording is with Maple Zuo, an up-and-coming comedian based in Shanghai. Maple has amazing energy, which I hope you can hear in this conversation. We start off by talking about her comedy set, and how her approach is different in English versus Chinese. But we then veer into some unexpectedly dark territory, so there’s part of this chat which might not be suitable for all audiences. We discuss some interesting details about her family background growing up in Inner Mongolia. Thankfully the things she mentions have no bearing on the situation there today. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:30 - Part 1 21:33 - Part 2 32:22 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
[Trailer]MZ: They did normal gangster stuff like killing,
fighting, beating. Sorry, I just went to thetop. It should be like ‘hitting, beating,
killing’, OK.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. When all of their stories are pieced
(00:24):
together, they form a Mosaic of China. I'myour host Oscar Fuchs.
In today's episode, I talked with Maple Zuo,who is an up-and-coming comedian in China.
She has amazing energy, which I hope you canhear in this conversation. We start off by
talking about her comedy set, and how herapproach is different in English versus Chinese.
But then we veer into some unexpectedly darkterritory. So there’s part of this chat
(00:47):
which might not be suitable for all audiences.Some really interesting details, though, about
her family, and her background growing upin Inner Mongolia. Thankfully, the stuff that
she mentions has no bearing on the situationthere today. This is another recording that
I did at home. So there are some similar soundissues to last week's episode. Sorry about
that. But at least this time, I don't dropanything during the recording. So look, that
(01:10):
counts as progress, I think.
Thanks so much for all the support on Instagram,on Facebook and WeChat. It was really nice
to hear from you about your thoughts on Philippefrom last week's episode. And I'm really looking
forward to what you think about today's episode.It's quite a contrast. So enough of me and
here's the interview.
[Part 1]OF: You've been in Shanghai how many years
(01:33):
now?MZ: I've been in Shanghai since 2017, two
years now.OF: OK, so actually I am your superior. I've
been in Shanghai more than you.MZ: Oh, expert, huh?
OF (01:43):
Yeah! MZ
Well, the first thing I ask every guest on the podcast is, what is the object that
you've brought that represents what you'redoing right now?
MZ (01:55):
It's a Tom Ford lipstick. Yeah. My partner bought me this. You know, when he first gave
it to me, I thought “TF?” I didn't know,you know, this brand. I said “Oh, TF. Like
TF Boys”. There was a Chinese band calledTF Boys. “So is this TF boys?” He said
“No, it's Tom Ford.” You know, I don'tuse expensive stuff. So this is very expensive
(02:20):
lipstick. I've used it on stage every day.Yeah.
OF (02:23):
Right. So tell me why does that have some particular resonance? What does that symbolise
to your life in China?MZ: I feel like, as a female comedian, the
difference with the males is that you do makeupon stage. If you look very normal, people
will think you’re not serious about it.So each time I go on stage, I will do makeup.
(02:46):
But I don't want to do it too strong. Lipstickis just enough. It also… Without lipstick,
I feel like I'm not prepared. I'm just ugly,just not confident. But once I’m wearing
lipstick, I feel so good.OF: So where should we start, then, from that?
Because there's a lot that we can talk about,your partner… Let's start with… About
the actual performance side of what you dothese days.
MZ (03:07):
Yeah. OK, so I started comedy in 2016 in Beijing, that was my first time doing some
open mics. I was so scared, because performingfor other people is not easy. And making people
laugh is even harder. So they give me threeminutes, and I go on, I say something not
funny, and I shake - my hands are shaking- and then I just get off. And then after,
(03:32):
even like, three months, I didn't dare togo on stage again. But then I moved to Shanghai,
I think since nobody knows me, you know, I'mnew here, maybe I should try again. So they
have a workshop that teaches you how to dostand-up comedy. So I went there, I learned
some skills, and went back home, wrote somejokes. And I did my five minutes, and it worked
(03:53):
OK. Because I feel like people are addictedto the stage. Like, once you go on there,
and you get a big laugh, oh, that's just sorewarding. You just want to do it more and
more. So from there, I just started my comedyjourney.
OF (04:06):
Let's go back to Beijing then. So what happened that first time?
MZ (04:10):
That first time, my partner was having a gig, he organised one. Because there weren’t
enough comedians, he said “Can you justgo there, to just… because we don't have
enough. Can you just be there?” So I justget there, and say a few words, and get off.
It's just rough.OF: Wow.
Yeah. OF
(04:33):
that? Or were you actually like “Yeah, thatwas a good try.” How did you feel?
The thing is, I think it's a performing thing, right? Before comedy, I was live performing
poetry. So I performed a lot. And I'm a teacher,you know, so I am not afraid of standing in
front of people. But I just don't know howto make people laugh. So when he made me go
(04:54):
on stage, I wasn’t worried. But I was justworried that I'm not funny, you know. But
I wanted to give a go, yeah.OF: And you use English only, or do you also
have a Chinese set?MZ: Last year, I was only doing English comedy.
And then later on, some people recommendedme to do some Chinese comedy, and I started
(05:17):
to try. And then I realised there is a hugedifference between Chinese and English comedy.
So number one, in English comedy you can talkabout anything; in Chinese comedy, people
get offended very easily. And number two,the audience in English comedy, they're very
chill, very ‘enjoying stuff’; Chineseaudiences, they're very uptight, like judging
(05:39):
you. Yeah. And then if you didn't performwell, the English comedy audience will give
you a cheer, clap their hands, like to encourageyou. Chinese audiences, they just nod down
their heads, play on their WeChat, and ignoreyou.
OF (05:55):
Oh, wow, that's rough. MZ
all my English jokes into Chinese. And thetranslation doesn’t always work. So I needed
to go back to the Chinese way of thinkingto write jokes. And that only works for Chinese
people. And then you change your brain backto the English kind of humour. You realise,
you're two different people. And my friendwho is bilingual, she came to see both sets,
(06:20):
she said “You're a totally different person”.Because in English I’m very spicy, aggressive,
like, “OK, I’m talking s**t about foreigners”you know. But in Chinese, I'm a loser, you
know. I have to be a loser, “I’m s**t,I’m s**t”, and people are “ha ha”
laughing about you.OF: That's interesting. And when you said
that Chinese audiences can be offended, whatdid you mean? Can you think of some examples?
MZ (06:44):
So for example, comedians always joke about their partners, right? So in English
comedy I a say “Oh, my partner has someflaws”. You know, it's a funny thing. And
people go along with it. I have a 20 minuteset about my partner, and we even have a tour
together called ‘This relationship is ajoke’. We toured all around China with that,
you know, that was an amazing thing. But thenwhen I tried to talk about it in Chinese,
(07:07):
My first night is “Hi, everybody, I havea partner, he's a foreigner”. And people
said “Don't show off”.OF: Oh, wow. OK.
So I was like “I'm not showing off. Like, have you met him? I'm trying to say
something funny”. So it's like, some Chineseaudiences are like “Oh, you’ve got a foreigner,
(07:27):
you have a better life”. They want to laughat a loser. But who is not a loser, because
they can stand on stage. So I don't know whatthey're seeking. If you say “Oh, I went
aboard to study, I have a foreign boyfriend,I have a rich life” they will be like they
just like don't wanna… So it's a weird feelingfor me.
OF (07:50):
Right. Well, because in a way, I can see how it would distance you from your audience.
If most of your audience wouldn't understandthe life that you have with a foreign partner,
right? MZ (07:59):
Yeah. So in Chinese comedy, I just miss out the modern part of me, like who I
am now. I always go “OK, when I was young…my dad…. and my country… and my hometown”.
And that's can relatable to a larger Chineseaudience.
OF (08:12):
Right. And so after you've got them on side, after you've given them your China background,
then do you come on to the modern side? Ordo you just leave it?
MZ (08:21):
I haven't had a set about modern life yet. I haven't figured it out. Because I’ve
just been doing comedy for two years. I thinkI should try more, but I haven't. So I think
my major right now is doing English comedy.Chinese comedy is slowly drifting away for
me. Because it's too hard for me to do twokinds of humour.
OF (08:43):
Right. MZ
for so many years. Like, it's a differenttechnique to stand-up comedy.
So what is the Chinese understanding of comedy? Because of course, stand-up comedy
really hasn't had a long history here anyway,MZ: Usually we have 相声 [Xiàngsheng] in
China. It’s very local. A lot of the stuffis recited, it’s not original. But stand-up
(09:06):
comedy is original. Because stand-up comedyis more about who you are, like “This is
me. I'm funny. This is what I've experienced”.And they want to make connections with the
audience. But with 相声 [Xiàngsheng], everybodycan watch. It’s like a show.
Right. And it's not very personal. It's just…
MZ (09:24):
It's very general. OF
It’s never too personal, like “This is who I am”. I think that’s where you
can find a big difference.OF: Well you said then, when you do comedy
in Chinese, you talk about your family background,and your history. So maybe let's talk about
that. Like, what is it about your past thatyou talk about?
(09:44):
It was a very strange past, family. OK, see, my family is very weird. A strange family.
Because my dad was a gangster.OF: Your dad was a..?
Gangster. OF
Before I wouldn't dare to say that, because people would report me or get my dad. But
(10:07):
he is out of that business now. So I can talkabout it finally, you know.
OF (10:12):
Right. So tell us how that was as a child, growing up in the house of a gangster.
MZ (10:17):
It's rough. A lot of people maybe see the movies, right, and you say “Oh my god,
gangsters are so cool. As the daughter ofa gangster, you must be like a princess and
stuff”. But the reality is not like that.Because my gangster dad and my uncle, they
are all a gangster family and had a gangstergroup that controlled the town. So they don't
have a lot of education. You know, they didn'teven go to primary school. So all they know
(10:44):
is violence. So they don't like talking toyou. So if there’s a conflict, my dad would
use his fist rather than talk to you. So thegangster family actually is a very violent
family. It's a very insulting family. Like,whoever is the loudest has power; whoever
is the strongest has power. So as a female,a woman, we have no power at home. So in my
(11:10):
family, I have a bunch of brothers, the onlyfemales are my mom and me. My mom didn't get
respect, you know, and then me neither, so.And then, you know, the reason I brought lipstick
is because my mom never used lipstick. Andthe first time I saw a woman using lipstick,
it was a girl - like a prostitute - my dadbrought home. So that made me think “Oh,
(11:36):
that's sexy”. You know “That's what asexy girl should be doing.” You know, you
look at my mom, it was like a Cinderella typeof thing, you know.
OF (11:42):
Wow. MZ
gangster”, it's just what they want to thinkof. The reality is not very nice.
And can you say which part of China this was?
MZ (11:54):
Inner Mongolia. OF
Inner Mongolia?MZ: 18 years.
OF (12:02):
OK. MZ
And so can you give us an example of what forms of gangster work your father did?
MZ (12:13):
OK, so they did normal gangster stuff like killing, fighting, beating. Sorry, I
just went to the top. It should be like ‘hitting,beating, killing’, OK. And then there was
just the normal things. They did gambling.They did business in 麻将 [májiàng], Chinese
(12:35):
麻将 [májiàng]. Or they did prostitution,hotels. That's the dark side. Because gangsters,
they have like a company, you know. Differentpeople control different parts. And so another
part, they controlled transportation. So youknow, on a main road from this city to another
city, there would be a big bus carrying peopleor carrying goods and everything. So my dad's
(13:00):
family controlled the best time of day. OK,for example, from morning 8-10am, my dad controlled
that, nobody else could go on. Also on theother bus going there, my dad needed to charge
money.OF: Right. So that means like, he would have
a roadblock, and he would stop the bus andgo on the bus?
He doesn't need to be there. His crew just stopped the bus. And they all know who
(13:23):
they were, they all know who they worked for.So they just gave them the money.
OF (13:27):
And so, what were you personally exposed to? Like, are these stories that you knew
at the time? Or these are stories that youjust learned later?
MZ (13:36):
I was there. I think I realised my dad was a gangster when I was in primary school.
I didn't know, even though there were so manyguys coming and going from my house every
day. And then one time there was a girl inschool who was kind of insulting me and beating
me. And another girl was like “Don’t,don’t! Leave her alone, her dad is a gangster!”.
OF (13:55):
Right. MZ
I didn't even know, like “How do you know?”She said “My dad told me, your dad is a
gangster.”OF: Yeah.
MZ (14:03):
So I kind of realised. But I didn't dare to ask my dad, you know. Because my dad told
me he's a businessman. He's doing business,you know. But after I knew, I didn't get any
good advantages. Because in school, nobodywanted to be my friend. They were just worried
my dad would beat them. But actually, theydon’t, you know. So…
OF (14:25):
There are so many questions I could ask you.
MZ (14:29):
Yeah, sure. OF
to start.MZ: Yeah.
OF (14:32):
So let's talk about your relationship, then, with your father. And I remember, the
reason I know you is because I saw you - itwasn't so much a comedy set, It was a storytelling
- at one of the Unravel events. And it wasabout your relationship with your father,
especially when you stood up to him. Can youtalk about what was the lowest point in your
(14:56):
relationship?MZ: OK, so I think I'm very easygoing. You
know, because I’ve seen a lot. So I feellike I have no boundaries in my life. But
then, I didn't like my dad when he hit mymom. Because normally he just slapped my mom
on the face. I saw that a lot, I kind of didn'tfeel anything anymore. I know it's bad. But
(15:17):
when I was 12, I walked into the house, Ithink they had just been arguing, something
about money. So my dad just grabbed a lotof money, threw it on my mom's face. And he
was smoking, and he just threw the cigaretteon my mom's face. And my mom was having her
period, and he just kicked her so hard onthe stomach. It was just like he grabbed everything
he could to destroy her. He pushed her headon the wall, the blood was all over the place.
(15:39):
And he threw water on her face. I felt likehe was just treating her like an animal, you
know. Like, no dignity, this woman gave youso many kids, and you treat her like that.
So I said “You're a monster. I don't likethis.” And then after that, we just stopped
talking to each other. And then I tried topoison him. And that didn't work. And then
(16:00):
he just sent me away from the family. He sentme to some uncle's house. I didn't live with
him anymore after that thing, you know.OF: And so are these stories that you now
use in your comedy?MZ: No.
Right. So what kind of things do you use in your Chinese comedy, for example?
MZ (16:18):
OK, so people say the darkest side can be the really funny bits, right? But I don't
have the ability to change that dark sideinto comedy yet. So in my comedy, I will say
“Hey, guys, my dad is a gangster. So you’dbetter laugh”. Like, something like that.
OF (16:33):
Right. OF
things. “Oh my dad… got this thing forme” or “Oh my dad is a very loud, he's
an alcoholic, he snores.” Like, in general,people can say “Oh, a lot of dads do that”.
But those other bits, it’s so painful. Idon't want to even think about it, you know.
So I can't, you know, transfer them to mycomedy set. Maybe I'm not good enough yet,
(16:57):
you know. I don't think I'm forgiving himright now. If one day I forgive him, maybe
I can let it go more, and then talk aboutit. But now I don't want to. People say “Oh,
anything can be changed into comedy.” No,it's not. Because whatever you say, it's a
sad thing. It's not funny.OF: So what is your relationship like now,
(17:19):
with your family, with your father, with yourmother?
MZ (17:21):
I think he influenced me so much. Like, because it was a very intense relationship,
I was so scared. Every night after like, 10o’clock, I was so scared. When he came in,
if he was drunk, I was just literally shaking.I had nobody to talk to. Because whenever
I talked to my mom, my mom doesn't know anything,right? My brother, the siblings, they're very
(17:45):
harsh to me as well. They didn't accept meas a friend. So I have no friends. When I
was young, I just learned the habit of writinga diary. And then, because you write a lot
when you’re young, I started learning poetry.You know, the poetry is sad. So I'm just like,
sad, sad, sad. But then the good thing islike, I moved on to comedy. It's the same
(18:05):
writing. But when I do comedy now, wheneverI go through my life, I'll pick the happy
side and write it down. You know, before comedyI was a very miserable young lady. You know,
no smile. You go home, you look at the picturesof me in my house, it's all grumpy face. No
smile, you know.OF: Let's go back to today, then. So when
(18:27):
you talk about comedy, what is the comedyscene like, here in Shanghai and across the
rest of China?MZ: It’s very nice that we’re having this
conversation now, because I just did a tourof all of China. So I can have am opinion
on this.OF: Great, so where did you go?
I went to Shanghai, Beijing, 深圳 [Shēnzhèn], 武汉 [Wǔhàn], 重庆 [Chóngqìng], 成都
(18:48):
[Chéngdū], 苏州 [Sūzhōu], 杭州 [Hángzhōu].Basically, all the cities that have comedy,
I’ve been there already. So I feel likeamong them all, Shanghai comedy has the most
active comedy scene, because we have so manyclubs here, we have so many open mics. Each
night, we have like three different places.So you have more time to practice. And then
Beijing, we started in Beijing. There werea lot of good comedians, but they all left.
(19:14):
So it's all new people in Beijing. And whenwe did our tour stop in Beijing, it was very
nice. You know, people are still very supportiveof comedy. We had 120 people in the audience.
But then when we move down to other cities,it depends. You know, we had like 40, 30,
(19:35):
20… Sometimes 11.OF: Yeah
So it's just depends. OF
I think it's growing. Slowly. OF
your comedy?MZ: The world is becoming global. I slightly
quit my Chinese comedy, it’s not becauseI don't like my country or whatever. I want
to do English comedy because I love my countryso much, I want to go out to the world to
(19:59):
represent a Chinese woman. I think there aren’tany Chinese female comedians, like proper
Chinese. Some are ABCs, BBCs maybe, outside.But not proper China, China, China-born Chinese,
actually going out. So I want to work myselfhard, and go out, and speak my own voice,
and represent China, you know. And then recently,I set up a group called China Girls. It's
(20:23):
a comedy club, open to Chinese girls. Like,whoever wants to try comedy, they can come
along and do shows. Just like encourage morelocal people who want to talk, you know. I
feel like we have a voice. You go to the comedyscene, it’s all white male.
OF (20:37):
Right. MZ
No, absolutely. And I think the world is now more open to diverse comedy. Just look
at the States. Look at Trevor Noah on TheDaily Show. A few years ago, you would never
imagine that a foreigner would be so popularin the U.S.
MZ (20:53):
Yeah. OF
news comedy show.MZ: Yeah, yeah.
OF (20:57):
Again, he's another white dude. But he's not American. I think the world is now becoming
more open to different voices.MZ: Yeah.
And you've got such a unique voice. I mean, I loved your story. But even without
that story, just your ability to representyourself, your country, your story. Just from
what I've heard in the shows that I've seenyou in, yeah I'm looking forward to seeing
(21:19):
where you go.MZ: Thank you. Let's see, let's have this
conversation in 10 years.OF: Absolutely. Oh, you'll be way too big
for me at that point. Well, thank you so muchfor that Maple.
MZ (21:28):
Thank you. OF
Yes.
[Part 2]OF: So I've got 10 questions to ask you. And
let's start right now. So first of all, whatis your favourite phrase in Chinese? So it
could be, like, a new phrase that you seeon the internet; it could be a phrase that's
really hard to translate into English… Like,what's something that you want to say?
(21:51):
My favourite one? OF
My favourite one is called 道 [dào]. OF
You know 道 [dào], 道 [dào] is like philosophy, 道家 [dàojiā]. I think, it’s
similar to Confucian stuff. But 道 [dào]is a very vague. It's like the truth of the
universe. I don't know how to translate thatone.
OF (22:09):
Yes. MZ
know. Sometimes you can get it, sometimesyou don't get it. I want to study more about
it, and then translate it in the future.OF: Right. I think English speakers probably
know the Japanese reading of 道 [dào] whichis ‘do’, because we know hudo and kendo,
aikido.MZ: Oh, yeah, yeah.
(22:31):
So that's the 道 [dào], isn't it? MZ
Japanese didn't pronounce it right..! Or theychanged the pronunciation. It’s the same
character, yeah.OF: Exactly. What is your favourite China
related fact? So for example, it could beabout your hometown or a story from Chinese
history…MZ: Oh, that one. You know, because I'm a
(22:53):
female, I like strong female characters. Soyou know, 5000 years of Chinese history, there
was one woman called 武则天 [Wǔ Zétiān],right?
Yes. MZ
You know, I read all the books, seen the movies,and I can't imagine how she got through it.
I know she killed a lot of people. But like,every emperor killed loads of people.
(23:15):
Yeah. MZ
evil”. But all male emperors are evil. SoI feel like she must have done something so
spectacular to get there. And that inspiresme. You know, I want to be a queen some day
like that.OF: Yeah. And from what I've read about strong
women leaders in the past, it's always themen who come after that leader who start to
(23:39):
make these stories of how evil she was.MZ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How terrible she was. MZ
peaceful and very thriving. It's very good.Even the people after her would say a lot
of good things about her.OF: Mmm. Excellent. What's your favourite
destination within China?MZ: Tibet.
Oh, awesome. When did you go? MZ
(24:02):
my partner proposed to me there.OF: Ah.
MZ (24:04):
Oh, there was a place I actually got to and was like “Oh god”, that was amazing.
Because we climbed nine hours that day, tothe top top mountain. And then there was a
beautiful blue lake. And then above that wassnow on the mountain. It was so pure. And
then the name of the lake was ‘Tears ofGod’. And it was amazing. And then over
(24:29):
the lake, there was a some stone. And on thestone, there was a Buddha. Like you can’t
see it, but it was a natural Buddha thing.And the shadow contained a whole Buddha image.
So that's amazing. I was like “Oh god, thisis…” I believed in God in that moment.
OF (24:46):
Yeah. Wow, amazing. If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would
you miss the least?MZ: Miss most is the food. Of course.
I knew you’d say food. OK, but be more specific. Like, what is the food that you
can't live without?MZ: 饼 [Bǐng]. You know, pancakes, Chinese
special pancakes.OF: Ah right.
MZ (25:03):
So they can roll everything in. It's easy, quick and just very tasty. I eat them every
day.OF: Really. Like 煎饼 [jiānbing], right?
Yeah, any kind of 饼 [bǐng], 煎饼 [jiānbing], 卷饼 [juǎnbǐng], all these
different 饼 [bǐng].OF: Is there any food then, in that case,
that you totally hate and you would not missat all?
Oh, you know Chinese people eat weird animals, and organs. I don’t like all of
(25:24):
that.OF: OK.
People go to hotpot… You know, there was one time, I was eating normal stuff, one
of my friends put in pig brain in that one,or some blood. It just ruined everything.
OF (25:34):
Oh, wow. MZ
But you’d try it once though, wouldn’t you?
MZ (25:38):
No I didn’t. OF
There’s a short story. One of my friends opened a 四川 [Sìchuān] restaurant, and
then she had a competition. She said “OK,anyone who wins the eating competition will
get a year of free hotpot”. So in the firstround, I enjoy spicy food, so I beat the other
girl in the first round. Second round waseating strange food. So it was a bowl of pig
(26:02):
brain and a beer. And I said “I quit”.And the other girl, she didn't eat it, but
she won. You know, because I just quit.OF: How funny.
Yeah. OF
you about modern life in China? So for example,any latest surprising apps or trends or fashions?
China is very big, it has loads of people. And we have one big party to rule the country.
(26:32):
So once there is a decision, it goes downso quickly. Like technology, Alipay and everything,
Taobao. It amazes me. Even though I'm usingit, I feel like I can't get rid of my phone.
And it's saving me so much time. I want everythingjust like ‘click click’. You go to England,
you still need cash and everything. Rightnow, you can just scan everything. It's amazing.
OF (26:53):
Yeah MZ
we have 5G now, right? - everything is goingso fast. I was wondering, all this time you
saved, what do you use with it? You know,that makes me think. Because people took transportation,
you know, it took days and days to get there.And now just quick. OK, but when you're gonna
(27:14):
do with the time you got there? A lot of peoplejust stand on the train, just going on WeChat
Moments or watching small, funny videos. Iwant to do something more, because we’re
saving so much time, right?OF: Yeah, you're right. You're right. All
of these conveniences. And yet we still complainthat we have no time, and we're still just
wasting time scrolling. You're right.MZ: Yeah.
(27:34):
What’s your favourite place to go out, to eat or drink, or hang out?
MZ (27:39):
In China? OF
OK, there was a Japanese restaurant I really really like. I like that restaurant
because of the design. Because in other restaurantyou get in and it’s like a closed space.
But that Japanese restaurant - because thedesigner is from Japan, he’s very good - so
you’re sitting there, you look through thewindow, you can see the area you're in, you
(28:02):
can see the lobby, you can see the outsideview. It's like you’re starting from here,
and you can just see the world connecting.It's so beautiful and peaceful.
OF (28:11):
Wow, what's it called? MZ
Here in Shanghai? MZ
Yeah. OK, I'll get the details and I'll definitely share those. I haven't been to
that one actually. It sounds good. What isthe best or worst purchase you've recently
made?MZ: Oh, the worst one I bought is a printer.
(28:34):
Because I thought “I'm going to write more,write more, and then print it out”. But
I didn’t use it. So…OF: So it's just sat there.
MZ (28:44):
And an oven “Oh I want to cook” but I didn’t.
OF (28:46):
Oh the same issue. MZ
I should stop it.OF: Well, if there any best purchase then
that you actually have ended up using?MZ: Some books?
There you go. MZ
Are you still writing poetry too? MZ
When it's funny, I’m writing comedy.OF: Right.
MZ (29:08):
Because it's not to say I have no friends, because after doing comedy I met a lot of
people who know me. But I still am a veryintroverted person, I want my own space, calm
down my brain. I like reading and writing.OF: And do you think you'll ever publish them?
Or is it just for yourself?MZ: I think at the end of the day when I'm
famous, and people want it, I can publishsome of the best pieces. But now, because
(29:33):
nobody knows who you are, you just write onyour own, you know?
OF (29:36):
Yeah. MZ
Absolutely. And what's your favourite WeChat sticker?
MZ (29:42):
櫻桃小丸子 [Yīngtáo Xiǎo Wánzi], like a Japanese cartoon. She's so happy and
innocent, you know? And she has a happy familyas well. And I think I just I want to be her.
But I can't be her. But I like her. She’sjust so happy and doesn’t think about anything.
I had such a dark side in my childhood, buthers doesn’t.
OF (30:02):
Right. MZ
up like that.OF: That's nice. And particularly the one
that you've sent me, she's eating with withgusto here.
MZ (30:12):
Yeah. Loads of food, so happy. OF
I love Adele. OF
Adele, with a very deep voice and very emotional…
OF (30:28):
Yeah but very hard to sing. MZ
Oh really? MZ
but I like to scream “I can find someonejust like you” or something like that. And
then Taylor Swift, because she also likeswriting a diary and poetry, and her lyrics
are very good. So I like her. I don't go toKTV very often, because right now it's like
(30:52):
a team building thing with friends. And myfriends all know I'm bad at seeming, so it's
very embarrassing.OF: Well, maybe - going back to your best
and worst purchases - maybe you should buyyourself a KTV machine at home.
MZ (31:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OF
media or sources of information do you relyon?
WeChat. OF
That's the only thing I'm using right now.
OF (31:16):
Right. Well, thank you so much Maple. MZ
And you've shared a lot about your story, so I really appreciate that.
MZ (31:23):
That’s OK. OF
are really angry, because there are so manydifferent questions I could have asked you.
But it's a short time only. The final questionthat I ask everyone here is, who would you
recommend out of people you know in China,that I interview next?
OK, that person, his name is Björn. He’s from Sweden. And he's an international clown.
(31:45):
He's very professional. I met him in comedy,he’s a very funny clown. And then later,
we worked together in a charity hospital.And we talked more. And I feel like he's very
warm-hearted. And he's very professional.And he's not only doing charity here in Shanghai,
he's doing it everywhere in the world. I feelthat part is very rare, you know.
OF (32:08):
That's great, I can't wait to meet him. If he's half as interesting as you, then that'll
be fine.MZ: Oh he’s more interesting than me. He's
travelled around so many places.OF: Well, thank you so much again, Maple.
MZ (32:20):
Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So that was Maple. What a great story,
and having seen at one stage two or threetimes… Well, I mean, you haven't even heard
the half of it. Please check her out. She'snot much on social media, actually. So watch
out for China comedy listings in general tolearn about where she is performing next.
So the first thing I wanted to mention wasthat we discussed during the conversation
(32:43):
that I first met Maple through ‘Unravel’.So let me just give them another namecheck.
Unravel, so they’re a storytelling group,they're based in Shanghai, and they've done
an amazing job at putting on shows and buildinga real community of people around the art
of storytelling. I was inspired to do a coupleof storytelling shows myself, but it's nice
(33:03):
to just sit in the audience at those things.The team there - so that’s Clara, Sarah,
everyone at Unravel - they also have a podcastout. So I wanted to urge you to check it out.
Just search for ‘Unravel’ or ‘Unravelstorytelling’, I think either of those should
work, and you should be able to find it.
So what else? So the images are up on socialmedia, please check us out on Instagram and
(33:25):
Facebook, or send me a message and I willadd you to the group on WeChat. Which images
do we have this time? So we have Maple withher fancy TF lipstick - that's Tom Ford. I
also found a photo of the boy band, TF Boys.I'd never heard of those guys. But yeah, I
mean, they they look like boys. I don't knowwhat year that photo was taken. But yeah,
(33:46):
that's literally a boy band. Maple’s favouriteWeChat sticker, so that's also up there. She
called the character ‘小丸子 [Xiǎo Wánzi]’,and I kind of thought she looked familiar
at the time, but I couldn't quite place her.Anyway, I did a search on the internet and
it is ちびまる子ちゃん [Chibi Maruko-chan].So that's the classic manga character from
the 80s. At another point in the conversationwe mentioned ‘ABC’ and ‘BBC’. To people
(34:09):
who live in China, they probably know thoseterms. But for everyone else, they mean ‘American
Born Chinese’ and ‘British Born Chinese’.It's pretty common to hear those phrases here
in China. So in the context of our chat, Ithink Maple was saying that there are a fair
number of ‘ABC’ and ‘BBC' comedians,but far fewer mainland Chinese female comedians.
What else? So Tibet, this is the second timein a row that someone has chosen Tibet as
(34:34):
their favourite place to visit in China. Yes,I am going to keep a tally of these things.
I looked up the lake that she mentioned, it'scalled the ‘Blue Tears of God’ or ‘Yamdrok’
Lake. I'll post a photo of that too, it doeslook incredible. And the Japanese restaurant
she mentioned, so that was 百川 [Bǎichuān]: 百 [bǎi] as in 100, 川 [chuān] as in 四川 (34:49):
undefined
[Sìchuān], and I posted a photo of thattoo. And finally Maple mentioned that her
favourite food, the one that she'd missedthe most if she left China, was 饼 [bǐng].
So this basically refers to all kinds of pancakes.Some of them are like crêpe, and some of
them are a little bit thicker, and some oflike biscuits. There’s a whole bunch of
(35:11):
them, so I don't want to really go into toomuch detail. What I would say to you is just
do a search, and you'll find out a whole lotmore. I recommend a Bing search. A 饼 [bǐng]
search. OK, maybe I'll leave the comedy toMaple.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, graphicsdesigned by Denny Newell, editing by Milo
de Prieto. If you like us, please rate andcomment on iTunes or wherever you download
(35:33):
this podcast, and I will see you next week.
[Trailer]MZ: They did normal gangster stuff like killing,
fighting, beating. Sorry, I just went to thetop. It should be like ‘hitting, beating,
killing’, OK.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast
about people who are making their mark inChina. When all of their stories are pieced
(00:24):
together, they form a Mosaic of China. I'myour host Oscar Fuchs.
In today's episode, I talked with Maple Zuo,who is an up-and-coming comedian in China.
She has amazing energy, which I hope you canhear in this conversation. We start off by
talking about her comedy set, and how herapproach is different in English versus Chinese.
But then we veer into some unexpectedly darkterritory. So there’s part of this chat
(00:47):
which might not be suitable for all audiences.Some really interesting details, though, about
her family, and her background growing upin Inner Mongolia. Thankfully, the stuff that
she mentions has no bearing on the situationthere today. This is another recording that
I did at home. So there are some similar soundissues to last week's episode. Sorry about
that. But at least this time, I don't dropanything during the recording. So look, that
(01:10):
counts as progress, I think.
Thanks so much for all the support on Instagram,on Facebook and WeChat. It was really nice
to hear from you about your thoughts on Philippefrom last week's episode. And I'm really looking
forward to what you think about today's episode.It's quite a contrast. So enough of me and
here's the interview.
[Part 1]OF: You've been in Shanghai how many years
(01:33):
now?MZ: I've been in Shanghai since 2017, two
years now.OF: OK, so actually I am your superior. I've
been in Shanghai more than you.MZ: Oh, expert, huh?
OF (01:43):
Yeah! MZ
Well, the first thing I ask every guest on the podcast is, what is the object that
you've brought that represents what you'redoing right now?
MZ (01:55):
It's a Tom Ford lipstick. Yeah. My partner bought me this. You know, when he first gave
it to me, I thought “TF?” I didn't know,you know, this brand. I said “Oh, TF. Like
TF Boys”. There was a Chinese band calledTF Boys. “So is this TF boys?” He said
“No, it's Tom Ford.” You know, I don'tuse expensive stuff. So this is very expensive
(02:20):
lipstick. I've used it on stage every day.Yeah.
OF (02:23):
Right. So tell me why does that have some particular resonance? What does that symbolise
to your life in China?MZ: I feel like, as a female comedian, the
difference with the males is that you do makeupon stage. If you look very normal, people
will think you’re not serious about it.So each time I go on stage, I will do makeup.
(02:46):
But I don't want to do it too strong. Lipstickis just enough. It also… Without lipstick,
I feel like I'm not prepared. I'm just ugly,just not confident. But once I’m wearing
lipstick, I feel so good.OF: So where should we start, then, from that?
Because there's a lot that we can talk about,your partner… Let's start with… About
the actual performance side of what you dothese days.
MZ (03:07):
Yeah. OK, so I started comedy in 2016 in Beijing, that was my first time doing some
open mics. I was so scared, because performingfor other people is not easy. And making people
laugh is even harder. So they give me threeminutes, and I go on, I say something not
funny, and I shake - my hands are shaking- and then I just get off. And then after,
(03:32):
even like, three months, I didn't dare togo on stage again. But then I moved to Shanghai,
I think since nobody knows me, you know, I'mnew here, maybe I should try again. So they
have a workshop that teaches you how to dostand-up comedy. So I went there, I learned
some skills, and went back home, wrote somejokes. And I did my five minutes, and it worked
(03:53):
OK. Because I feel like people are addictedto the stage. Like, once you go on there,
and you get a big laugh, oh, that's just sorewarding. You just want to do it more and
more. So from there, I just started my comedyjourney.
OF (04:06):
Let's go back to Beijing then. So what happened that first time?
MZ (04:10):
That first time, my partner was having a gig, he organised one. Because there weren’t
enough comedians, he said “Can you justgo there, to just… because we don't have
enough. Can you just be there?” So I justget there, and say a few words, and get off.
It's just rough.OF: Wow.
Yeah. OF
(04:33):
that? Or were you actually like “Yeah, thatwas a good try.” How did you feel?
The thing is, I think it's a performing thing, right? Before comedy, I was live performing
poetry. So I performed a lot. And I'm a teacher,you know, so I am not afraid of standing in
front of people. But I just don't know howto make people laugh. So when he made me go
(04:54):
on stage, I wasn’t worried. But I was justworried that I'm not funny, you know. But
I wanted to give a go, yeah.OF: And you use English only, or do you also
have a Chinese set?MZ: Last year, I was only doing English comedy.
And then later on, some people recommendedme to do some Chinese comedy, and I started
(05:17):
to try. And then I realised there is a hugedifference between Chinese and English comedy.
So number one, in English comedy you can talkabout anything; in Chinese comedy, people
get offended very easily. And number two,the audience in English comedy, they're very
chill, very ‘enjoying stuff’; Chineseaudiences, they're very uptight, like judging
(05:39):
you. Yeah. And then if you didn't performwell, the English comedy audience will give
you a cheer, clap their hands, like to encourageyou. Chinese audiences, they just nod down
their heads, play on their WeChat, and ignoreyou.
OF (05:55):
Oh, wow, that's rough. MZ
all my English jokes into Chinese. And thetranslation doesn’t always work. So I needed
to go back to the Chinese way of thinkingto write jokes. And that only works for Chinese
people. And then you change your brain backto the English kind of humour. You realise,
you're two different people. And my friendwho is bilingual, she came to see both sets,
(06:20):
she said “You're a totally different person”.Because in English I’m very spicy, aggressive,
like, “OK, I’m talking s**t about foreigners”you know. But in Chinese, I'm a loser, you
know. I have to be a loser, “I’m s**t,I’m s**t”, and people are “ha ha”
laughing about you.OF: That's interesting. And when you said
that Chinese audiences can be offended, whatdid you mean? Can you think of some examples?
MZ (06:44):
So for example, comedians always joke about their partners, right? So in English
comedy I a say “Oh, my partner has someflaws”. You know, it's a funny thing. And
people go along with it. I have a 20 minuteset about my partner, and we even have a tour
together called ‘This relationship is ajoke’. We toured all around China with that,
you know, that was an amazing thing. But thenwhen I tried to talk about it in Chinese,
(07:07):
My first night is “Hi, everybody, I havea partner, he's a foreigner”. And people
said “Don't show off”.OF: Oh, wow. OK.
So I was like “I'm not showing off. Like, have you met him? I'm trying to say
something funny”. So it's like, some Chineseaudiences are like “Oh, you’ve got a foreigner,
(07:27):
you have a better life”. They want to laughat a loser. But who is not a loser, because
they can stand on stage. So I don't know whatthey're seeking. If you say “Oh, I went
aboard to study, I have a foreign boyfriend,I have a rich life” they will be like they
just like don't wanna… So it's a weird feelingfor me.
OF (07:50):
Right. Well, because in a way, I can see how it would distance you from your audience.
If most of your audience wouldn't understandthe life that you have with a foreign partner,
right? MZ (07:59):
Yeah. So in Chinese comedy, I just miss out the modern part of me, like who I
am now. I always go “OK, when I was young…my dad…. and my country… and my hometown”.
And that's can relatable to a larger Chineseaudience.
OF (08:12):
Right. And so after you've got them on side, after you've given them your China background,
then do you come on to the modern side? Ordo you just leave it?
MZ (08:21):
I haven't had a set about modern life yet. I haven't figured it out. Because I’ve
just been doing comedy for two years. I thinkI should try more, but I haven't. So I think
my major right now is doing English comedy.Chinese comedy is slowly drifting away for
me. Because it's too hard for me to do twokinds of humour.
OF (08:43):
Right. MZ
for so many years. Like, it's a differenttechnique to stand-up comedy.
So what is the Chinese understanding of comedy? Because of course, stand-up comedy
really hasn't had a long history here anyway,MZ: Usually we have 相声 [Xiàngsheng] in
China. It’s very local. A lot of the stuffis recited, it’s not original. But stand-up
(09:06):
comedy is original. Because stand-up comedyis more about who you are, like “This is
me. I'm funny. This is what I've experienced”.And they want to make connections with the
audience. But with 相声 [Xiàngsheng], everybodycan watch. It’s like a show.
Right. And it's not very personal. It's just…
MZ (09:24):
It's very general. OF
It’s never too personal, like “This is who I am”. I think that’s where you
can find a big difference.OF: Well you said then, when you do comedy
in Chinese, you talk about your family background,and your history. So maybe let's talk about
that. Like, what is it about your past thatyou talk about?
(09:44):
It was a very strange past, family. OK, see, my family is very weird. A strange family.
Because my dad was a gangster.OF: Your dad was a..?
Gangster. OF
Before I wouldn't dare to say that, because people would report me or get my dad. But
(10:07):
he is out of that business now. So I can talkabout it finally, you know.
OF (10:12):
Right. So tell us how that was as a child, growing up in the house of a gangster.
MZ (10:17):
It's rough. A lot of people maybe see the movies, right, and you say “Oh my god,
gangsters are so cool. As the daughter ofa gangster, you must be like a princess and
stuff”. But the reality is not like that.Because my gangster dad and my uncle, they
are all a gangster family and had a gangstergroup that controlled the town. So they don't
have a lot of education. You know, they didn'teven go to primary school. So all they know
(10:44):
is violence. So they don't like talking toyou. So if there’s a conflict, my dad would
use his fist rather than talk to you. So thegangster family actually is a very violent
family. It's a very insulting family. Like,whoever is the loudest has power; whoever
is the strongest has power. So as a female,a woman, we have no power at home. So in my
(11:10):
family, I have a bunch of brothers, the onlyfemales are my mom and me. My mom didn't get
respect, you know, and then me neither, so.And then, you know, the reason I brought lipstick
is because my mom never used lipstick. Andthe first time I saw a woman using lipstick,
it was a girl - like a prostitute - my dadbrought home. So that made me think “Oh,
(11:36):
that's sexy”. You know “That's what asexy girl should be doing.” You know, you
look at my mom, it was like a Cinderella typeof thing, you know.
OF (11:42):
Wow. MZ
gangster”, it's just what they want to thinkof. The reality is not very nice.
And can you say which part of China this was?
MZ (11:54):
Inner Mongolia. OF
Inner Mongolia?MZ: 18 years.
OF (12:02):
OK. MZ
And so can you give us an example of what forms of gangster work your father did?
MZ (12:13):
OK, so they did normal gangster stuff like killing, fighting, beating. Sorry, I
just went to the top. It should be like ‘hitting,beating, killing’, OK. And then there was
just the normal things. They did gambling.They did business in 麻将 [májiàng], Chinese
(12:35):
麻将 [májiàng]. Or they did prostitution,hotels. That's the dark side. Because gangsters,
they have like a company, you know. Differentpeople control different parts. And so another
part, they controlled transportation. So youknow, on a main road from this city to another
city, there would be a big bus carrying peopleor carrying goods and everything. So my dad's
(13:00):
family controlled the best time of day. OK,for example, from morning 8-10am, my dad controlled
that, nobody else could go on. Also on theother bus going there, my dad needed to charge
money.OF: Right. So that means like, he would have
a roadblock, and he would stop the bus andgo on the bus?
He doesn't need to be there. His crew just stopped the bus. And they all know who
(13:23):
they were, they all know who they worked for.So they just gave them the money.
OF (13:27):
And so, what were you personally exposed to? Like, are these stories that you knew
at the time? Or these are stories that youjust learned later?
MZ (13:36):
I was there. I think I realised my dad was a gangster when I was in primary school.
I didn't know, even though there were so manyguys coming and going from my house every
day. And then one time there was a girl inschool who was kind of insulting me and beating
me. And another girl was like “Don’t,don’t! Leave her alone, her dad is a gangster!”.
OF (13:55):
Right. MZ
I didn't even know, like “How do you know?”She said “My dad told me, your dad is a
gangster.”OF: Yeah.
MZ (14:03):
So I kind of realised. But I didn't dare to ask my dad, you know. Because my dad told
me he's a businessman. He's doing business,you know. But after I knew, I didn't get any
good advantages. Because in school, nobodywanted to be my friend. They were just worried
my dad would beat them. But actually, theydon’t, you know. So…
OF (14:25):
There are so many questions I could ask you.
MZ (14:29):
Yeah, sure. OF
to start.MZ: Yeah.
OF (14:32):
So let's talk about your relationship, then, with your father. And I remember, the
reason I know you is because I saw you - itwasn't so much a comedy set, It was a storytelling
- at one of the Unravel events. And it wasabout your relationship with your father,
especially when you stood up to him. Can youtalk about what was the lowest point in your
(14:56):
relationship?MZ: OK, so I think I'm very easygoing. You
know, because I’ve seen a lot. So I feellike I have no boundaries in my life. But
then, I didn't like my dad when he hit mymom. Because normally he just slapped my mom
on the face. I saw that a lot, I kind of didn'tfeel anything anymore. I know it's bad. But
(15:17):
when I was 12, I walked into the house, Ithink they had just been arguing, something
about money. So my dad just grabbed a lotof money, threw it on my mom's face. And he
was smoking, and he just threw the cigaretteon my mom's face. And my mom was having her
period, and he just kicked her so hard onthe stomach. It was just like he grabbed everything
he could to destroy her. He pushed her headon the wall, the blood was all over the place.
(15:39):
And he threw water on her face. I felt likehe was just treating her like an animal, you
know. Like, no dignity, this woman gave youso many kids, and you treat her like that.
So I said “You're a monster. I don't likethis.” And then after that, we just stopped
talking to each other. And then I tried topoison him. And that didn't work. And then
(16:00):
he just sent me away from the family. He sentme to some uncle's house. I didn't live with
him anymore after that thing, you know.OF: And so are these stories that you now
use in your comedy?MZ: No.
Right. So what kind of things do you use in your Chinese comedy, for example?
MZ (16:18):
OK, so people say the darkest side can be the really funny bits, right? But I don't
have the ability to change that dark sideinto comedy yet. So in my comedy, I will say
“Hey, guys, my dad is a gangster. So you’dbetter laugh”. Like, something like that.
OF (16:33):
Right. OF
things. “Oh my dad… got this thing forme” or “Oh my dad is a very loud, he's
an alcoholic, he snores.” Like, in general,people can say “Oh, a lot of dads do that”.
But those other bits, it’s so painful. Idon't want to even think about it, you know.
So I can't, you know, transfer them to mycomedy set. Maybe I'm not good enough yet,
(16:57):
you know. I don't think I'm forgiving himright now. If one day I forgive him, maybe
I can let it go more, and then talk aboutit. But now I don't want to. People say “Oh,
anything can be changed into comedy.” No,it's not. Because whatever you say, it's a
sad thing. It's not funny.OF: So what is your relationship like now,
(17:19):
with your family, with your father, with yourmother?
MZ (17:21):
I think he influenced me so much. Like, because it was a very intense relationship,
I was so scared. Every night after like, 10o’clock, I was so scared. When he came in,
if he was drunk, I was just literally shaking.I had nobody to talk to. Because whenever
I talked to my mom, my mom doesn't know anything,right? My brother, the siblings, they're very
(17:45):
harsh to me as well. They didn't accept meas a friend. So I have no friends. When I
was young, I just learned the habit of writinga diary. And then, because you write a lot
when you’re young, I started learning poetry.You know, the poetry is sad. So I'm just like,
sad, sad, sad. But then the good thing islike, I moved on to comedy. It's the same
(18:05):
writing. But when I do comedy now, wheneverI go through my life, I'll pick the happy
side and write it down. You know, before comedyI was a very miserable young lady. You know,
no smile. You go home, you look at the picturesof me in my house, it's all grumpy face. No
smile, you know.OF: Let's go back to today, then. So when
(18:27):
you talk about comedy, what is the comedyscene like, here in Shanghai and across the
rest of China?MZ: It’s very nice that we’re having this
conversation now, because I just did a tourof all of China. So I can have am opinion
on this.OF: Great, so where did you go?
I went to Shanghai, Beijing, 深圳 [Shēnzhèn], 武汉 [Wǔhàn], 重庆 [Chóngqìng], 成都
(18:48):
[Chéngdū], 苏州 [Sūzhōu], 杭州 [Hángzhōu].Basically, all the cities that have comedy,
I’ve been there already. So I feel likeamong them all, Shanghai comedy has the most
active comedy scene, because we have so manyclubs here, we have so many open mics. Each
night, we have like three different places.So you have more time to practice. And then
Beijing, we started in Beijing. There werea lot of good comedians, but they all left.
(19:14):
So it's all new people in Beijing. And whenwe did our tour stop in Beijing, it was very
nice. You know, people are still very supportiveof comedy. We had 120 people in the audience.
But then when we move down to other cities,it depends. You know, we had like 40, 30,
(19:35):
20… Sometimes 11.OF: Yeah
So it's just depends. OF
I think it's growing. Slowly. OF
your comedy?MZ: The world is becoming global. I slightly
quit my Chinese comedy, it’s not becauseI don't like my country or whatever. I want
to do English comedy because I love my countryso much, I want to go out to the world to
(19:59):
represent a Chinese woman. I think there aren’tany Chinese female comedians, like proper
Chinese. Some are ABCs, BBCs maybe, outside.But not proper China, China, China-born Chinese,
actually going out. So I want to work myselfhard, and go out, and speak my own voice,
and represent China, you know. And then recently,I set up a group called China Girls. It's
(20:23):
a comedy club, open to Chinese girls. Like,whoever wants to try comedy, they can come
along and do shows. Just like encourage morelocal people who want to talk, you know. I
feel like we have a voice. You go to the comedyscene, it’s all white male.
OF (20:37):
Right. MZ
No, absolutely. And I think the world is now more open to diverse comedy. Just look
at the States. Look at Trevor Noah on TheDaily Show. A few years ago, you would never
imagine that a foreigner would be so popularin the U.S.
MZ (20:53):
Yeah. OF
news comedy show.MZ: Yeah, yeah.
OF (20:57):
Again, he's another white dude. But he's not American. I think the world is now becoming
more open to different voices.MZ: Yeah.
And you've got such a unique voice. I mean, I loved your story. But even without
that story, just your ability to representyourself, your country, your story. Just from
what I've heard in the shows that I've seenyou in, yeah I'm looking forward to seeing
(21:19):
where you go.MZ: Thank you. Let's see, let's have this
conversation in 10 years.OF: Absolutely. Oh, you'll be way too big
for me at that point. Well, thank you so muchfor that Maple.
MZ (21:28):
Thank you. OF
Yes.
[Part 2]OF: So I've got 10 questions to ask you. And
let's start right now. So first of all, whatis your favourite phrase in Chinese? So it
could be, like, a new phrase that you seeon the internet; it could be a phrase that's
really hard to translate into English… Like,what's something that you want to say?
(21:51):
My favourite one? OF
My favourite one is called 道 [dào]. OF
You know 道 [dào], 道 [dào] is like philosophy, 道家 [dàojiā]. I think, it’s
similar to Confucian stuff. But 道 [dào]is a very vague. It's like the truth of the
universe. I don't know how to translate thatone.
OF (22:09):
Yes. MZ
know. Sometimes you can get it, sometimesyou don't get it. I want to study more about
it, and then translate it in the future.OF: Right. I think English speakers probably
know the Japanese reading of 道 [dào] whichis ‘do’, because we know hudo and kendo,
aikido.MZ: Oh, yeah, yeah.
(22:31):
So that's the 道 [dào], isn't it? MZ
Japanese didn't pronounce it right..! Or theychanged the pronunciation. It’s the same
character, yeah.OF: Exactly. What is your favourite China
related fact? So for example, it could beabout your hometown or a story from Chinese
history…MZ: Oh, that one. You know, because I'm a
(22:53):
female, I like strong female characters. Soyou know, 5000 years of Chinese history, there
was one woman called 武则天 [Wǔ Zétiān],right?
Yes. MZ
You know, I read all the books, seen the movies,and I can't imagine how she got through it.
I know she killed a lot of people. But like,every emperor killed loads of people.
(23:15):
Yeah. MZ
evil”. But all male emperors are evil. SoI feel like she must have done something so
spectacular to get there. And that inspiresme. You know, I want to be a queen some day
like that.OF: Yeah. And from what I've read about strong
women leaders in the past, it's always themen who come after that leader who start to
(23:39):
make these stories of how evil she was.MZ: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How terrible she was. MZ
peaceful and very thriving. It's very good.Even the people after her would say a lot
of good things about her.OF: Mmm. Excellent. What's your favourite
destination within China?MZ: Tibet.
Oh, awesome. When did you go? MZ
(24:02):
my partner proposed to me there.OF: Ah.
MZ (24:04):
Oh, there was a place I actually got to and was like “Oh god”, that was amazing.
Because we climbed nine hours that day, tothe top top mountain. And then there was a
beautiful blue lake. And then above that wassnow on the mountain. It was so pure. And
then the name of the lake was ‘Tears ofGod’. And it was amazing. And then over
(24:29):
the lake, there was a some stone. And on thestone, there was a Buddha. Like you can’t
see it, but it was a natural Buddha thing.And the shadow contained a whole Buddha image.
So that's amazing. I was like “Oh god, thisis…” I believed in God in that moment.
OF (24:46):
Yeah. Wow, amazing. If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would
you miss the least?MZ: Miss most is the food. Of course.
I knew you’d say food. OK, but be more specific. Like, what is the food that you
can't live without?MZ: 饼 [Bǐng]. You know, pancakes, Chinese
special pancakes.OF: Ah right.
MZ (25:03):
So they can roll everything in. It's easy, quick and just very tasty. I eat them every
day.OF: Really. Like 煎饼 [jiānbing], right?
Yeah, any kind of 饼 [bǐng], 煎饼 [jiānbing], 卷饼 [juǎnbǐng], all these
different 饼 [bǐng].OF: Is there any food then, in that case,
that you totally hate and you would not missat all?
Oh, you know Chinese people eat weird animals, and organs. I don’t like all of
(25:24):
that.OF: OK.
People go to hotpot… You know, there was one time, I was eating normal stuff, one
of my friends put in pig brain in that one,or some blood. It just ruined everything.
OF (25:34):
Oh, wow. MZ
But you’d try it once though, wouldn’t you?
MZ (25:38):
No I didn’t. OF
There’s a short story. One of my friends opened a 四川 [Sìchuān] restaurant, and
then she had a competition. She said “OK,anyone who wins the eating competition will
get a year of free hotpot”. So in the firstround, I enjoy spicy food, so I beat the other
girl in the first round. Second round waseating strange food. So it was a bowl of pig
(26:02):
brain and a beer. And I said “I quit”.And the other girl, she didn't eat it, but
she won. You know, because I just quit.OF: How funny.
Yeah. OF
you about modern life in China? So for example,any latest surprising apps or trends or fashions?
China is very big, it has loads of people. And we have one big party to rule the country.
(26:32):
So once there is a decision, it goes downso quickly. Like technology, Alipay and everything,
Taobao. It amazes me. Even though I'm usingit, I feel like I can't get rid of my phone.
And it's saving me so much time. I want everythingjust like ‘click click’. You go to England,
you still need cash and everything. Rightnow, you can just scan everything. It's amazing.
OF (26:53):
Yeah MZ
we have 5G now, right? - everything is goingso fast. I was wondering, all this time you
saved, what do you use with it? You know,that makes me think. Because people took transportation,
you know, it took days and days to get there.And now just quick. OK, but when you're gonna
(27:14):
do with the time you got there? A lot of peoplejust stand on the train, just going on WeChat
Moments or watching small, funny videos. Iwant to do something more, because we’re
saving so much time, right?OF: Yeah, you're right. You're right. All
of these conveniences. And yet we still complainthat we have no time, and we're still just
wasting time scrolling. You're right.MZ: Yeah.
(27:34):
What’s your favourite place to go out, to eat or drink, or hang out?
MZ (27:39):
In China? OF
OK, there was a Japanese restaurant I really really like. I like that restaurant
because of the design. Because in other restaurantyou get in and it’s like a closed space.
But that Japanese restaurant - because thedesigner is from Japan, he’s very good - so
you’re sitting there, you look through thewindow, you can see the area you're in, you
(28:02):
can see the lobby, you can see the outsideview. It's like you’re starting from here,
and you can just see the world connecting.It's so beautiful and peaceful.
OF (28:11):
Wow, what's it called? MZ
Here in Shanghai? MZ
Yeah. OK, I'll get the details and I'll definitely share those. I haven't been to
that one actually. It sounds good. What isthe best or worst purchase you've recently
made?MZ: Oh, the worst one I bought is a printer.
(28:34):
Because I thought “I'm going to write more,write more, and then print it out”. But
I didn’t use it. So…OF: So it's just sat there.
MZ (28:44):
And an oven “Oh I want to cook” but I didn’t.
OF (28:46):
Oh the same issue. MZ
I should stop it.OF: Well, if there any best purchase then
that you actually have ended up using?MZ: Some books?
There you go. MZ
Are you still writing poetry too? MZ
When it's funny, I’m writing comedy.OF: Right.
MZ (29:08):
Because it's not to say I have no friends, because after doing comedy I met a lot of
people who know me. But I still am a veryintroverted person, I want my own space, calm
down my brain. I like reading and writing.OF: And do you think you'll ever publish them?
Or is it just for yourself?MZ: I think at the end of the day when I'm
famous, and people want it, I can publishsome of the best pieces. But now, because
(29:33):
nobody knows who you are, you just write onyour own, you know?
OF (29:36):
Yeah. MZ
Absolutely. And what's your favourite WeChat sticker?
MZ (29:42):
櫻桃小丸子 [Yīngtáo Xiǎo Wánzi], like a Japanese cartoon. She's so happy and
innocent, you know? And she has a happy familyas well. And I think I just I want to be her.
But I can't be her. But I like her. She’sjust so happy and doesn’t think about anything.
I had such a dark side in my childhood, buthers doesn’t.
OF (30:02):
Right. MZ
up like that.OF: That's nice. And particularly the one
that you've sent me, she's eating with withgusto here.
MZ (30:12):
Yeah. Loads of food, so happy. OF
I love Adele. OF
Adele, with a very deep voice and very emotional…
OF (30:28):
Yeah but very hard to sing. MZ
Oh really? MZ
but I like to scream “I can find someonejust like you” or something like that. And
then Taylor Swift, because she also likeswriting a diary and poetry, and her lyrics
are very good. So I like her. I don't go toKTV very often, because right now it's like
(30:52):
a team building thing with friends. And myfriends all know I'm bad at seeming, so it's
very embarrassing.OF: Well, maybe - going back to your best
and worst purchases - maybe you should buyyourself a KTV machine at home.
MZ (31:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OF
media or sources of information do you relyon?
WeChat. OF
That's the only thing I'm using right now.
OF (31:16):
Right. Well, thank you so much Maple. MZ
And you've shared a lot about your story, so I really appreciate that.
MZ (31:23):
That’s OK. OF
are really angry, because there are so manydifferent questions I could have asked you.
But it's a short time only. The final questionthat I ask everyone here is, who would you
recommend out of people you know in China,that I interview next?
OK, that person, his name is Björn. He’s from Sweden. And he's an international clown.
(31:45):
He's very professional. I met him in comedy,he’s a very funny clown. And then later,
we worked together in a charity hospital.And we talked more. And I feel like he's very
warm-hearted. And he's very professional.And he's not only doing charity here in Shanghai,
he's doing it everywhere in the world. I feelthat part is very rare, you know.
OF (32:08):
That's great, I can't wait to meet him. If he's half as interesting as you, then that'll
be fine.MZ: Oh he’s more interesting than me. He's
travelled around so many places.OF: Well, thank you so much again, Maple.
MZ (32:20):
Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So that was Maple. What a great story,
and having seen at one stage two or threetimes… Well, I mean, you haven't even heard
the half of it. Please check her out. She'snot much on social media, actually. So watch
out for China comedy listings in general tolearn about where she is performing next.
So the first thing I wanted to mention wasthat we discussed during the conversation
(32:43):
that I first met Maple through ‘Unravel’.So let me just give them another namecheck.
Unravel, so they’re a storytelling group,they're based in Shanghai, and they've done
an amazing job at putting on shows and buildinga real community of people around the art
of storytelling. I was inspired to do a coupleof storytelling shows myself, but it's nice
(33:03):
to just sit in the audience at those things.The team there - so that’s Clara, Sarah,
everyone at Unravel - they also have a podcastout. So I wanted to urge you to check it out.
Just search for ‘Unravel’ or ‘Unravelstorytelling’, I think either of those should
work, and you should be able to find it.
So what else? So the images are up on socialmedia, please check us out on Instagram and
(33:25):
Facebook, or send me a message and I willadd you to the group on WeChat. Which images
do we have this time? So we have Maple withher fancy TF lipstick - that's Tom Ford. I
also found a photo of the boy band, TF Boys.I'd never heard of those guys. But yeah, I
mean, they they look like boys. I don't knowwhat year that photo was taken. But yeah,
(33:46):
that's literally a boy band. Maple’s favouriteWeChat sticker, so that's also up there. She
called the character ‘小丸子 [Xiǎo Wánzi]’,and I kind of thought she looked familiar
at the time, but I couldn't quite place her.Anyway, I did a search on the internet and
it is ちびまる子ちゃん [Chibi Maruko-chan].So that's the classic manga character from
the 80s. At another point in the conversationwe mentioned ‘ABC’ and ‘BBC’. To people
(34:09):
who live in China, they probably know thoseterms. But for everyone else, they mean ‘American
Born Chinese’ and ‘British Born Chinese’.It's pretty common to hear those phrases here
in China. So in the context of our chat, Ithink Maple was saying that there are a fair
number of ‘ABC’ and ‘BBC' comedians,but far fewer mainland Chinese female comedians.
What else? So Tibet, this is the second timein a row that someone has chosen Tibet as
(34:34):
their favourite place to visit in China. Yes,I am going to keep a tally of these things.
I looked up the lake that she mentioned, it'scalled the ‘Blue Tears of God’ or ‘Yamdrok’
Lake. I'll post a photo of that too, it doeslook incredible. And the Japanese restaurant
she mentioned, so that was 百川 [Bǎichuān]: 百 [bǎi] as in 100, 川 [chuān] as in 四川 (34:49):
undefined
[Sìchuān], and I posted a photo of thattoo. And finally Maple mentioned that her
favourite food, the one that she'd missedthe most if she left China, was 饼 [bǐng].
So this basically refers to all kinds of pancakes.Some of them are like crêpe, and some of
them are a little bit thicker, and some oflike biscuits. There’s a whole bunch of
(35:11):
them, so I don't want to really go into toomuch detail. What I would say to you is just
do a search, and you'll find out a whole lotmore. I recommend a Bing search. A 饼 [bǐng]
search. OK, maybe I'll leave the comedy toMaple.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, graphicsdesigned by Denny Newell, editing by Milo
de Prieto. If you like us, please rate andcomment on iTunes or wherever you download
(35:33):
this podcast, and I will see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!