November 25, 2019 • 30 mins
Srinivas Yanamandra ("Srini") is the Chief Compliance Officer at the New Development Bank (NDB), the only multilateral organisation based in Shanghai. Comprised of the BRICS countries of Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa, the bank has a unique constitution and culture. Srini and I discuss his position in the organisation, with a particular focus on the similarities and differences between China and India. And our conversation soon stretches into many other areas, including his thoughts on the future of compliance and ethics in the age of Artificial Intelligence. Don't be too intimidated by this introduction, our conversation also includes enough light-hearted conversation to offset the cerebral content. I promise. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:47 - Part 1 20:48 - Part 2 28:46 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Trailer]SY: My hair,
(00:03):
after applying this shampoo, looks like ‘duāng’!
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host Oscar Fuchs.
Well, a big thanks to everyone who contributedon the WeChat groups about last week's episode
with Emily from Sea Life. And a specialshout out to Josh from the Mandarin Slang
(00:28):
Guide podcast for his contributions. Pleasecheck out that podcast if you're interested
in learning anything about slang inMandarin, it is a really great show.
As for this week's episode, it's the productof me wanting to find the most diversity as
possible for the theories. And I remember fora few weeks at the beginning of this year,
I'd been using my network to try and find peoplefrom the world of banking. And it was the same
(00:49):
story about people from the world of artificialintelligence. And at the same time, I was also
looking for somebody to represent the Indiancommunity in China. And wouldn't you know it,
I found Srinivas Yanamandra, who actually ticksall three boxes. And what makes it all the more
special for me is that I was introduced to himby Kiran Ragireddy in Shanghai, who has been a
friend of mine since we first met in Tokyo 10years ago. So a big thanks to Kiran for the
(01:12):
initial introduction. This episode is diverse inanother way too, it's probably the one which has
the biggest contrast in terms of the content,it goes from the cerebral to the silly. Srini
went from making me think deeply in one minute,to then giggling like a schoolgirl in the next.
And just one correction. As part of thisconversation, we talked about the BRICS countries,
and we mistakenly say that they have no sharedborders, which overlooks the fact that of course
(01:36):
China does have a border with Russia and withIndia. What we meant to say was that they don't
have the same geographical proximity as with othergroupings, like the EU or the ASEAN countries.
[Part 1]OF: Well,
thank you so much for coming in today. I'm herewith Srinivas Yanamandra. Srinivas is the Chief of
Compliance at the New Development Bank.SY: Hello, guys.
OF (01:56):
And you like to be called Srini. So I think that's probably easier for everyone.
SY (02:00):
Srini is OK, perfectly OK. OF
Let’s start off by discussing the object thatyou've brought. So what is the object that in
some way describes your life here in China?SY: So the object that I have brought is here
with me, the apple. Basically, when I wasthinking about what object I should carry,
I have some instinct in terms of how humanevolution can be described through apples.
(02:27):
There are three apples, which have actually ledto three different evolutions in humanity. The
first apple of Adam and Eve, this has led to theevolution of instincts. And then the second apple,
which has fallen on Isaac Newton, that hasled to the evolution of inquisitiveness. And
the third apple, which we see in ourhands day in and day out, the iPhone,
(02:49):
and that is the evolution of intelligence.So I think ‘apple’ summarises the entire
humanity since the Big Bang till today intothree distinct phases of our evolution. And
I think that is what I'm experiencing inChina, re-evaluating myself and re-thinking
about how we have evolved ourselves.OF: Wow, well, you've already elevated
(03:12):
that question way beyond what it wasoriginally intended for. Tell us a little
bit about what you're doing right now in China.SY: So I work for this multilateral development
bank, which was recently established, 2015. Andit's called the New Development Bank. And this
was started by the BRICS member countries, thefive countries with the acronym: Brazil, Russia,
(03:36):
India, China and South Africa. I work for thisbank as the Chief of the Compliance division.
Since the bank is starting new, we do have alot of our clients who have to follow certain
policies and procedures relating to integrity.So I do take care of some of those aspects
relating to compliance in the bank.OF: And the bank itself used to
(03:58):
be called ‘BRICS Bank’ right?SY: Yeah, people popularly call
it as the ‘BRICS Bank’. But at some stagein future, it may not necessarily be open
to only BRICS countries. So, the actualname of the bank is New Development Bank,
but it popularly goes by the name BRICS bank.OF: Got it. And so, when did you come along
(04:19):
to join this bank then?SY: So I joined in 2017,
it's about two and a half years now, I willbe completing the first stipulated term of
three years, four months from now.OF: And so having now lived here for
almost three years, can you remember when youfirst arrived? Like, what was the experience
of you moving to China in the first place?SY: That was a very crazy experience. In fact,
(04:41):
before I answer, I thought, like, since I startedtalking, I need to make you know about a brief
habit of mine. And that habit, I would tryto paraphrase using a latin term, ‘omne trium
perfectum’. I don't know if you heard about it,it's basically “Everything that is said in threes,
goes perfectly”. Like, if you have to talk aboutthe US Constitution, it talks about ‘liberty,
(05:08):
equality and the pursuit of happiness’. Andmaybe you’ve heard the term ‘veni vidi vici.’
And our traffic signals, which typicallysay ‘stop, look, and proceed’. So basically,
I have this funny habit, and I think it will comeout in most of my questions and answers, I will
try to answer in threes. And coming back to yourquestion about what is it that really went through
(05:33):
my mind at the time of taking the decision tocome to China, I think I have got three things to
bother about. The family, how do they perceive it,because we never had an aspiration to work or stay
abroad as a family. The second one is food, and wehave got specific restrictions in terms of certain
(05:53):
food. And about the future, because I was takinga big gamble. I was working for a commercial bank,
and coming to a development bank is indicative fora banker of a big change. And the second one is,
I was working for the private sector sofar. And now coming to the public sector
is a different mindset. And then I was workingfor India, and then moving to China. So again,
(06:15):
this is another change. So I think these thingswere playing in my mind about family, food,
future, and the switchovers that I've just spokenabout. But the only thing is… the excitement,
what it can bring, the role that hasbeen offered to me; the engagement in
the topic that I have researched crazily aboutin terms of regulation, compliance, and how it
(06:38):
is going to help me see live in an internationalenvironment; and then the education for the kids,
because there is no better opportunity for thekids to stay and study and intermingle with the
multicultural environment like in China. So thesethree - the excitement, and maybe my engagement,
and maybe the education component - I thinkthat these have taken away or three ‘F's that
(07:01):
I had got about family, food, and the future.OF: Nice. And so specifically with the bank,
you know, how often in a lifetime do theystart a new bank like this? I can sort of
see why you are interested in coming.SY: Yeah, in fact, that's what,
whenever anybody asked me, I used to question themthe same thing. Did you ever know how it used to
(07:22):
look like when the World Bank was established?And do you know, what sort of things went behind
when the IMF - The International MonetaryFund - has been established? So these are
the things that don't happen every day. Thelast multilateral development bank of this
size and scale has probably been establishedmaybe two decades before. So not everyone
(07:43):
will get a chance to really work on something sophenomenal, internationally and geopolitically.
So that opportunity overrides every otherconcern, which probably one can have when
taking such kind of a decision.OF: And it's such an interesting
combination of countries, where you have theBRICS. How would you describe the culture,
and just generally working in the NDB?SY: The BRICS is a conceptualization.
(08:07):
Initially, in the very early 2000s, an investmentfund manager has coined this term BRICS. And even
the ’S’ didn't exist in that time, it startedas the BRIC club, for the purpose of making
good investment in emerging market economies. Andthe ’S’ - South Africa - got added later in life,
in terms of I think, 2010 or so. And while thisacronym was basically meant for certain other
(08:33):
purposes, it started to catch on as arepresentation of the emerging market
in developing countries. We don't have anykind of connections, either geographically,
we are not close to each other, we don't shareborders; there is no connection of language,
we speak five different languages, and all ofthem crazily sound differently to each other;
(08:54):
and also, we don't have any kind of cultural routeor a commonality that one can expect between two
nations. So it is like a completely, you can say,unknown kind of environment, and a truly, truly
multicultural environment. So that is going to bea phenomenal way to think about a multicultural
environment, especially for one like me whohadn't worked in such kind of environments before.
OF (09:17):
When I think about it, where - you know, you described it very well - it's these
emerging markets. It's like a new world order,really. This is where maybe, where people who
understand the past world order, do they seethe BRICS grouping as a threat of some kind?
SY (09:32):
No, I think let’s turn to the object once again. Now if you say, actually when we were kids,
for example, when we are thinking about ‘Afor apple’, that's how we started learning our
alphabets. So when we start saying ‘A for apple’,in our minds, in our generation at that time,
the apple is basically this apple. But now if thekids are learning the same thing ‘A for apple',
(09:53):
the probability of the image of the physicalapple striking them is very low. What ‘apple’
that strikes in their mind is the iPhone.Does that mean this new order of this apple
is taking over this world? Or is it threateningthis? I don't think so. Basically this apple is
the representative of that generation.And this represents the instrumentality
(10:14):
of this generation. Maybe the World Bank is arepresentative institution of that generation,
when the world is in need of some leadershipinstitution to lead the development financing
aspects across countries. But BRICS Bank canbe considered as an institution representative
of this generation, the emerging marketeconomy forces. So if you see it that way,
(10:36):
the question of like ‘challenging' or ‘takingover’ or ‘replacing’ world orders may not exist
as it is portrayed normally in the mainstream.OF: And what was the thinking behind having it
based here in Shanghai? Was it always the casethat it was going to be based here? Or could it
have been based in any of the BRICS countries?SY: It could have been based in any of the BRICS
countries, but the infrastructureleadership that this country has,
(10:57):
is best poised to offer such kind of a facilityfor the new emerging market economy. And that's
how the headquarters have gotten here.OF: And are there any any other examples
of multilateral organisations based herein Shanghai? Or is this the only one?
This is the only one based in Shanghai, and we have a… you can call it a sister institution,
which is the AIIB, the Asian InfrastructureInvestment Bank. We are established at about
(11:20):
the same time, and both are headquartered inChina, but one in Shanghai, and one in Beijing.
OF (11:24):
Oh, the the AIIB is in Beijing. SY
OK. Well, let's zoom in on your particular role then. So what is it that you do,
day in day out? Or maybe broadly,like what is your overall objective?
SY (11:35):
So I can disclaim my role as always toying in between these three things, the compliance part,
and the conduct part and the culture part. To whatextent you're going to enforce compliance? Because
compliance is always like, you have a dictumand you have to enforce the dictum. The dictum
is given either by itself, or it is given by themarket entities. And then there is the conduct,
(11:57):
a conduct needs to be imbibed with advisory fromthe compliance division, so you have to advise
people on the right conduct. And then over aperiod of time, you don't need to do anything,
your culture evolves automatically. So thisis the toying that we do, day in and day out,
between compliance and conduct, ensuringthat these two things will evolve the
(12:19):
organisational culture in the long run.OF: So then let's talk about an example
then. Have you come across anyparticular examples when it comes
to compliance that you've had to get involved in?SY: It's not necessary that I should gather some
examples of what my work in the NDB is. But thereis a great amount of learning because of working
in the NDB, that we had an opportunity to observewhat sort of developments that are happening in
(12:42):
and around. But in my role in terms of thinkingabout compliance and conduct, we generally
focus upon what you call anti-discrimination,where you focus upon harassment, for example,
and try to ensure that the workplace is freeof harassment. That is a very mundane kind
of a role that a compliance officer carries. Butwhen you zoom into artificial intelligence, this
(13:07):
same harassment can take three different forms.It's not necessarily harassment by individual
to individual, it could be harassment by machineto individual. So it could be like an algorithm
grooming. So when you're watching certainYouTube videos, and there are certain algorithms,
and your kid is getting groomed, by the wayand the history of those videos he is getting
(13:30):
shown. So it could be a kind of a pseudo kind ofharassment that the machine can induce into you.
OF (13:37):
When you said the phrase “harassment by machine to human” like, that's where I think
about the people who are running their lives basedon the notifications from their phone. And then as
you say, like, you have people who are watchinga YouTube video, and then the algorithm takes
them into more and more extreme, extreme, extremevideos. And then you are actually making people
into more extremist thinkers.SY: Yes.
(13:57):
And that's a machine-learned harassment. SY
which is by person to the machine as well. Like,we can talk about Siri, we can talk about Alexa.
It's not necessarily that when you're talkingto Siri or Alexa, that every person is polite,
and every person talks only about things that theywant. But they do have Siri, they do harass Alexa.
(14:20):
So that harassment is from person to machine. Andthen we haven't yet seen - I think this is going
to be the word we are going to enter into shortly- harassment of machine to machine. So we really
don't know when an autonomous vehicle is goingto try to talk to - say, for example - an IoT
device connected to your home. So what sort ofbehaviours these machines are going to exhibit
(14:40):
to each other? So that is going to be anotherdynamic challenge that we are going to come to.
So a mundane job like a Compliance Officer, withthe ethical principles that we talk about, which
are never talked about openly, are becoming centrestage of discussion. Because when the machines are
coming into such kind of prominent roles, how theyinteract with humans, how humans are perceiving
(15:03):
them, and - in a short timeframe - how machinesare going to interact with each other. So that
is going to create a new set of challenges forcompliance and conduct, and even ethics as well.
That’s fascinating and scary at the same time. But you're talking about it right now
in the abstract. Like, this is something whichyou’re just interested in, and you're studying
(15:25):
right now. There's nothing right now thatyou're seeing, especially in the bank, right?
SY (15:29):
Correct. OF
that's something to watch out for in the future.SY: I think it is not necessary that I would
consider this something of the future. When peopletalk about technology, they always say that it is
about the future. But to some extent, mylearning so far, and my reading so far,
is not about technology of the future, but itis about mythology of the past as well. What
(15:52):
we always think is, what we are witnessing issomething new. But it is not so. In fact, the
same questions that we have, that we are tryingto articulate now, having evolved in different
phases, and in different contexts, even in thepast as well. Say for example, if you want to
understand compliance basically, people talk aboutnorms. So if you want to understand about norms,
(16:14):
you need to go a little further into the past,and try to see how humanity has first evolved.
So what has happened when humanity tried toconvert itself into societies. And if you
want to understand how humanity has evolved, youneed to go back again, to the evolution of the
universe itself. So how the universe has initiallystarted, and what actually led to the development
(16:34):
of humanity. Our span of existence on this planetis very miniscule. And it is within this span,
we now invented humanity, we now inventedsocieties, we now invented norms. So the point is,
when we're talking about technology, we tendto behave as if this is the world we live in.
But this is not the world, this is just the worldof the last 200 years. The world is basically the
(16:57):
13.8 billion years which we have crossed so far.So if somebody needs to understand what is going
to happen to technology in the future, what theyneed to do is to look back beyond these 50 years
that we're proud of, and then try to see how thesenorms originally got evolved. Then you’ll find
most answers. And that’s the reason I mentionedthat, when somebody talks about technology
and the future, the only answer we need to say isthat it's not about the future, you need to see
(17:20):
what made evolution possible so far, which willmake or break the evolution of the future as well.
OF (17:26):
My immediate reaction to hearing that is, do most compliance people think like you?
SY (17:32):
Not really. OF
you do link a lot of your thoughts - when itcomes to everyday, and you call it ‘mundane’
compliance - you link it to your cultural history.SY: But what I think has helped by my stay in
China is to know that these things are not uniqueto any country as such. So what I have heard in
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India - we call it द्वैत [dvaita] - द्वैत [dvaita]is basically dualism, it is not necessarily that
we are one, it could be like a replica of severalthings. So it is like me and the other person,
me and God. So that द्वैत [dvaita] as a dualismtheory exists in a very important way in our
cultural writings, scriptures. And in Chinese - infact, I keep hearing this from a couple of other
(18:25):
friends when they talk about this - they also saythat in Chinese Confucianism - or maybe in Chinese
culture - there is this concept of 阴 [yīn] and阳 [yáng], which is basically again, the concept
of dualism. So, yes, compliance is a littlemundane. Compliance can be made interesting to
several things in life. The biggest learning thatI had in China here, is that it is not necessary
(18:48):
that it is your culture and my culture. If you goback into history, then we try to understand that
we are one, or we together at some stage. And ourbeliefs would have evolved at about the same time,
in different cultural or country contexts.OF: Yeah, especially when you see it in
terms of you said, which is… it's not going tobe about one culture versus another culture,
it's going to be about a personversus a machine. And in that case,
(19:10):
when you're comparing to a machine, then allof us humans are the same, right? It doesn't
matter about what kind of culture we come from.SY: The more your interaction with machines is
going to start, the more your understandingof yourself comes in. So I say this journey
for me is from artificial intelligence- from ‘AI’ - to 'Who am I’. So, the AI,
(19:30):
if somebody is going to embark on the journey,he will end up ultimately to the question of
‘who am I’. So then if you understand yourselfas human, then you understand what is the other
distinct entity called ‘machine.’ I think thatis the seed of thought which has sparked here,
especially in this country, because there is a lotof interaction with machines, a lot of interaction
(19:51):
with technology. And suddenly you will get a doubtas to “Are we going to be like, machines are going
to take over human beings?” Then the fundamentalquestion is “But do we know what is being human?”
And if you understand that, you will understandall the things that we have spoken about just now,
how we have created institutions, how have creatednorms, how we have created compliance. Then you
will have a fascinating journey into the machineworld. So then you will be equipped to understand
(20:16):
how machines might be here, because this is goingto be history repeating itself for the future.
OF (20:20):
Right. Well, thank you so much, Srini. I mean, that's a fascinating topic. I mean,
you've you've taken it from compliance, to norms,to technology, to ethics, to what it actually
means to be a human. I didn't expect to coverthis with somebody who had a title ‘Compliance
Officer’. But I really appreciate that. Andthanks so much for for sharing some of your
(20:40):
views with us. Let us move on to Part 2.SY: Thank you. I'm excited to do that.
[Part 2]OF: What is your favourite China-related fact?
SY (20:52):
This is one of the questions people keep asking me when they come to China,
and they say “Hey, can you write my name inChinese?” I think that is the most interesting
fact. I always try to tell any visitor who comesto China, you can't write your name in Chinese
at all. Like what we do in other languages, wetalk about alphabets. But Chinese doesn’t work
(21:15):
on alphabets, Chinese works on characters. Soif I say for example “Srini” there is no way
in which you can write ‘Srini’ in Chinese.It is like mathematics. So for mathematics,
how can you write ‘Srini’ in mathematics? SoI keep asking the question to people saying,
“Well can you write ‘Srini’ in mathematics?” No,because you have got nine characters which can
(21:35):
represent the entire mathematics. And in thosenine characters, you can't create a combination
called ‘Srini.’ And that's the most, I thinkfor me, is an eye-opener, and the reason for
shutting down my Chinese classes.OF: Do you have a favourite
word or phrase in Chinese?SY: I don't know whether you’ve ever
heard that word, it's ‘duāng’.OF: OK.
(22:01):
D-U-A-N-G, ‘duāng’. Actually in 2015, Jackie Chan - when he was doing a kind of an interview
for a shampoo ad, it seems - he simply saidthat "My hair, after applying this shampoo,
looks like ‘duāng’!” That word has rockedthe entire internet, went viral, and there
(22:21):
were like 8 million 微博 [Wēibó] hits that haveoccurred, because there is no word ‘duāng’. And
everybody started now using that word, saying“Did you ‘duāng’ this?”, “Oh, this is ‘duāng’
interesting”. And the influence of this wordhas been so immense that they have created a new
character to say what ‘duāng’ actually is. It's avery funny story that I heard, and I tell it as a
(22:46):
kind of a favourite word. ‘Duāng.’OF: What's your favourite
destination within China?SY: I would always recommend
to people to definitely visit the Three GorgesDam. That is a phenomenally, infrastructure-ally,
technologically and engineering marvel thatone should watch when he has been in China. So,
(23:09):
alongside the dam, you created a kind of a shiplock system. But when I saw it - literally the
water getting poured, the door getting closed,and the water getting poured inside - and the
ship literally gets lifted up, and then moves onto the second stage, third stage, fourth stage.
The three-hour journey is like a journey of alifetime, when you're getting transferred from
(23:29):
this side of the dam to the other side of the dam.OF: Very good. If you left China, what would you
miss the most, and what would you miss the least?SY: I would miss the least is basically my passion
for watching movies, mostly Telugu movies. Andbefore coming here to China in 2017, in 2016 in
India, we have a ‘book my show' app where youbook your movie tickets, and I got an email in
(23:53):
January 2017, congratulating me for the number oftickets I purchased, which was around 120 tickets
for the year. So that is completely frozen for me.So I think I'm going to enjoy that when I go back.
That's the first thing. And the second thing is,if I think about what I will miss, it’s basically
the walk to office. The most luxurious thingthat you can have, you can walk to office and
(24:19):
go back to home on foot. So I think that is whatI might miss, if I had to work any other place.
OF (24:24):
I think you do have a luxurious situation, even for China standards. Like, not many people
walk to work in China.SY: Maybe, yeah.
Is there anything that still surprises you about life in China?
SY (24:40):
I think the only thing that surprises me is the precision. There are a lot of things I had
an apprehension about a country like Indiato some extent. When we were taught in our
childhood that one of the reasons for theslow pace of development in India could be
the population. And with population there areproblems of coordination, there are problems
(25:02):
of policy formulation, and there are issues interms of implementation. So we ascribe some of
these pitfalls to population. But coming here, Ireally understood, even with population, you can
have a lot of coordination. And there is a kind ofmethod to madness that leads to perfect precision.
That fascinates me very much. Any single thingthat you do, there is a kind of an order. And
(25:26):
that is what fascinates me about this place.OF: And do you think that could be translated
back into India?SY: To some extent,
we started doing that, because the enableris being digital. So I think that there
are pockets where we have achievedthat. And the only reason for me to
be very bullish is about the technology.OF: What is your favourite place to go,
(25:49):
to eat or drink or just hang out?SY: So the best place to hang around
is always The Bund. And once you go andtake a walk in the evening, I think you
really can't stop admiring the other side, howit has been created. And the phenomenal fact
is that it has been done in the past 20 years.OF: Yeah. What is your favourite WeChat sticker?
(26:10):
The WeChat sticker is a cute little girl. And she exudes a kind of weird expression,
like “Oops", kind of a thing. And that is themost needed in the messaging platforms, especially
when you do those silly mistakes, actually.OF: This is actually one of my favourites too.
Is it? OF
way of contorting her face.SY: Yes, yes.
OF (26:32):
What is your favourite song to sing at KTV? SY
and start singing. So don't venture into that.OF: Do you sing at all? Like,
when you're whistling down the street, or..?SY: No, when I started in fact, I didn't do much
karaoke. But I happened to do karaoke a coupleof months ago. And people started thinking that
(26:57):
the machine got corrupt, because they said “Whenwe started doing the karaoke a few weeks before,
it was working fine”. And when I startedsinging, they said “Why is this voice not
getting picked up?” And they all got surprisedas to why this is happening. Then they understood
that it is not a problem with the machine. Sothey let the individual go out of that room.
I'm trying to link this back to what you said before
(27:19):
about machines harassing people. And people…SY: Maybe it is ‘people harassing machines’.
The final question, what other China-related media or sources of information do you rely on?
SY (27:33):
So basically, if you have WeChat, you have broadly everything in there. Yeah. Mostly,
I think I'm a little weak in terms of trackingthe local news. But things of my interest,
you will always have WeChat groups. You havegot different groups of communities, as such.
So I think the messages get floating around.OF: Yeah, you're not the first person to say that.
(27:55):
It's how we all work here in China, right?SY: Yes.
OF (27:58):
Well, thank you so much Srini, it's again a pleasure to have you here. I
have one final request. And that is foryou to tell me out of everyone who you
know in China, who should I interview next?SY: So I have got one of my Vice Presidents,
Mr. Leslie Maasdrop. I found him to be the kindof person who could actually have some of the
(28:22):
insights that you're looking for, especially forthe country, about the background of a person,
and how drastic differences you can see a personcan undergo over a period of time in terms of
the positions that he gets into. So I think itwould be my privilege to introduce him to you.
Thank you so much, I really look forward to meeting Leslie
SY (28:42):
Fantastic, and I wish you all the best, and thank you so much.
[Outro]OF: So the images from today's
chat are all on social media. There is Srini andhis object, the apple, and the three ways in which
the apple describes the development of mankind.The Latin phrase which describes the Srini’s habit
of talking in threes, is ‘omne trium perfectum’,I posted a graphic about that too, just in case
(29:05):
you also didn't know how to spell it. Apart fromthat, there is his favourite WeChat sticker, the
little girl with the ‘whoops’ expression. To me,she's saying more than just ‘whoops’, but I can't
exactly put into words the full extent of theemotions that she's displaying. To see what I'm
talking about, as always check out @mosaicofchina_on Instagram and @mosaicofchina on Facebook,
or add me on my Wechat ID (29:22):
mosaicofchina, and I'll add you to the group there. What else?
There's images of the BRICS countries, and theNew Development Bank. And there's also a graph
showing the population of China versus India.There's also classic photos of the Shanghai Bund,
the place that Srini mentioned as his favouriteplace to hang out in China. There are photos from
(29:45):
the lock alongside the Three Gorges Dam. And ofcourse there is the character for ‘duāng,’ the
word which was totally made up by Jackie Chan. Iresearched this and it was from way back in 2015.
So please let me know if this is something you'restill either using or hearing in China in 2019.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, extraediting support from Milo de Prieto, artwork
(30:07):
by Denny Newell, and China support fromAlston Gong. I will see you next week.
[Trailer]SY: My hair,
(00:03):
after applying this shampoo, looks like ‘duāng’!
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host Oscar Fuchs.
Well, a big thanks to everyone who contributedon the WeChat groups about last week's episode
with Emily from Sea Life. And a specialshout out to Josh from the Mandarin Slang
(00:28):
Guide podcast for his contributions. Pleasecheck out that podcast if you're interested
in learning anything about slang inMandarin, it is a really great show.
As for this week's episode, it's the productof me wanting to find the most diversity as
possible for the theories. And I remember fora few weeks at the beginning of this year,
I'd been using my network to try and find peoplefrom the world of banking. And it was the same
(00:49):
story about people from the world of artificialintelligence. And at the same time, I was also
looking for somebody to represent the Indiancommunity in China. And wouldn't you know it,
I found Srinivas Yanamandra, who actually ticksall three boxes. And what makes it all the more
special for me is that I was introduced to himby Kiran Ragireddy in Shanghai, who has been a
friend of mine since we first met in Tokyo 10years ago. So a big thanks to Kiran for the
(01:12):
initial introduction. This episode is diverse inanother way too, it's probably the one which has
the biggest contrast in terms of the content,it goes from the cerebral to the silly. Srini
went from making me think deeply in one minute,to then giggling like a schoolgirl in the next.
And just one correction. As part of thisconversation, we talked about the BRICS countries,
and we mistakenly say that they have no sharedborders, which overlooks the fact that of course
(01:36):
China does have a border with Russia and withIndia. What we meant to say was that they don't
have the same geographical proximity as with othergroupings, like the EU or the ASEAN countries.
[Part 1]OF: Well,
thank you so much for coming in today. I'm herewith Srinivas Yanamandra. Srinivas is the Chief of
Compliance at the New Development Bank.SY: Hello, guys.
OF (01:56):
And you like to be called Srini. So I think that's probably easier for everyone.
SY (02:00):
Srini is OK, perfectly OK. OF
Let’s start off by discussing the object thatyou've brought. So what is the object that in
some way describes your life here in China?SY: So the object that I have brought is here
with me, the apple. Basically, when I wasthinking about what object I should carry,
I have some instinct in terms of how humanevolution can be described through apples.
(02:27):
There are three apples, which have actually ledto three different evolutions in humanity. The
first apple of Adam and Eve, this has led to theevolution of instincts. And then the second apple,
which has fallen on Isaac Newton, that hasled to the evolution of inquisitiveness. And
the third apple, which we see in ourhands day in and day out, the iPhone,
(02:49):
and that is the evolution of intelligence.So I think ‘apple’ summarises the entire
humanity since the Big Bang till today intothree distinct phases of our evolution. And
I think that is what I'm experiencing inChina, re-evaluating myself and re-thinking
about how we have evolved ourselves.OF: Wow, well, you've already elevated
(03:12):
that question way beyond what it wasoriginally intended for. Tell us a little
bit about what you're doing right now in China.SY: So I work for this multilateral development
bank, which was recently established, 2015. Andit's called the New Development Bank. And this
was started by the BRICS member countries, thefive countries with the acronym: Brazil, Russia,
(03:36):
India, China and South Africa. I work for thisbank as the Chief of the Compliance division.
Since the bank is starting new, we do have alot of our clients who have to follow certain
policies and procedures relating to integrity.So I do take care of some of those aspects
relating to compliance in the bank.OF: And the bank itself used to
(03:58):
be called ‘BRICS Bank’ right?SY: Yeah, people popularly call
it as the ‘BRICS Bank’. But at some stagein future, it may not necessarily be open
to only BRICS countries. So, the actualname of the bank is New Development Bank,
but it popularly goes by the name BRICS bank.OF: Got it. And so, when did you come along
(04:19):
to join this bank then?SY: So I joined in 2017,
it's about two and a half years now, I willbe completing the first stipulated term of
three years, four months from now.OF: And so having now lived here for
almost three years, can you remember when youfirst arrived? Like, what was the experience
of you moving to China in the first place?SY: That was a very crazy experience. In fact,
(04:41):
before I answer, I thought, like, since I startedtalking, I need to make you know about a brief
habit of mine. And that habit, I would tryto paraphrase using a latin term, ‘omne trium
perfectum’. I don't know if you heard about it,it's basically “Everything that is said in threes,
goes perfectly”. Like, if you have to talk aboutthe US Constitution, it talks about ‘liberty,
(05:08):
equality and the pursuit of happiness’. Andmaybe you’ve heard the term ‘veni vidi vici.’
And our traffic signals, which typicallysay ‘stop, look, and proceed’. So basically,
I have this funny habit, and I think it will comeout in most of my questions and answers, I will
try to answer in threes. And coming back to yourquestion about what is it that really went through
(05:33):
my mind at the time of taking the decision tocome to China, I think I have got three things to
bother about. The family, how do they perceive it,because we never had an aspiration to work or stay
abroad as a family. The second one is food, and wehave got specific restrictions in terms of certain
(05:53):
food. And about the future, because I was takinga big gamble. I was working for a commercial bank,
and coming to a development bank is indicative fora banker of a big change. And the second one is,
I was working for the private sector sofar. And now coming to the public sector
is a different mindset. And then I was workingfor India, and then moving to China. So again,
(06:15):
this is another change. So I think these thingswere playing in my mind about family, food,
future, and the switchovers that I've just spokenabout. But the only thing is… the excitement,
what it can bring, the role that hasbeen offered to me; the engagement in
the topic that I have researched crazily aboutin terms of regulation, compliance, and how it
(06:38):
is going to help me see live in an internationalenvironment; and then the education for the kids,
because there is no better opportunity for thekids to stay and study and intermingle with the
multicultural environment like in China. So thesethree - the excitement, and maybe my engagement,
and maybe the education component - I thinkthat these have taken away or three ‘F's that
(07:01):
I had got about family, food, and the future.OF: Nice. And so specifically with the bank,
you know, how often in a lifetime do theystart a new bank like this? I can sort of
see why you are interested in coming.SY: Yeah, in fact, that's what,
whenever anybody asked me, I used to question themthe same thing. Did you ever know how it used to
(07:22):
look like when the World Bank was established?And do you know, what sort of things went behind
when the IMF - The International MonetaryFund - has been established? So these are
the things that don't happen every day. Thelast multilateral development bank of this
size and scale has probably been establishedmaybe two decades before. So not everyone
(07:43):
will get a chance to really work on something sophenomenal, internationally and geopolitically.
So that opportunity overrides every otherconcern, which probably one can have when
taking such kind of a decision.OF: And it's such an interesting
combination of countries, where you have theBRICS. How would you describe the culture,
and just generally working in the NDB?SY: The BRICS is a conceptualization.
(08:07):
Initially, in the very early 2000s, an investmentfund manager has coined this term BRICS. And even
the ’S’ didn't exist in that time, it startedas the BRIC club, for the purpose of making
good investment in emerging market economies. Andthe ’S’ - South Africa - got added later in life,
in terms of I think, 2010 or so. And while thisacronym was basically meant for certain other
(08:33):
purposes, it started to catch on as arepresentation of the emerging market
in developing countries. We don't have anykind of connections, either geographically,
we are not close to each other, we don't shareborders; there is no connection of language,
we speak five different languages, and all ofthem crazily sound differently to each other;
(08:54):
and also, we don't have any kind of cultural routeor a commonality that one can expect between two
nations. So it is like a completely, you can say,unknown kind of environment, and a truly, truly
multicultural environment. So that is going to bea phenomenal way to think about a multicultural
environment, especially for one like me whohadn't worked in such kind of environments before.
OF (09:17):
When I think about it, where - you know, you described it very well - it's these
emerging markets. It's like a new world order,really. This is where maybe, where people who
understand the past world order, do they seethe BRICS grouping as a threat of some kind?
SY (09:32):
No, I think let’s turn to the object once again. Now if you say, actually when we were kids,
for example, when we are thinking about ‘Afor apple’, that's how we started learning our
alphabets. So when we start saying ‘A for apple’,in our minds, in our generation at that time,
the apple is basically this apple. But now if thekids are learning the same thing ‘A for apple',
(09:53):
the probability of the image of the physicalapple striking them is very low. What ‘apple’
that strikes in their mind is the iPhone.Does that mean this new order of this apple
is taking over this world? Or is it threateningthis? I don't think so. Basically this apple is
the representative of that generation.And this represents the instrumentality
(10:14):
of this generation. Maybe the World Bank is arepresentative institution of that generation,
when the world is in need of some leadershipinstitution to lead the development financing
aspects across countries. But BRICS Bank canbe considered as an institution representative
of this generation, the emerging marketeconomy forces. So if you see it that way,
(10:36):
the question of like ‘challenging' or ‘takingover’ or ‘replacing’ world orders may not exist
as it is portrayed normally in the mainstream.OF: And what was the thinking behind having it
based here in Shanghai? Was it always the casethat it was going to be based here? Or could it
have been based in any of the BRICS countries?SY: It could have been based in any of the BRICS
countries, but the infrastructureleadership that this country has,
(10:57):
is best poised to offer such kind of a facilityfor the new emerging market economy. And that's
how the headquarters have gotten here.OF: And are there any any other examples
of multilateral organisations based herein Shanghai? Or is this the only one?
This is the only one based in Shanghai, and we have a… you can call it a sister institution,
which is the AIIB, the Asian InfrastructureInvestment Bank. We are established at about
(11:20):
the same time, and both are headquartered inChina, but one in Shanghai, and one in Beijing.
OF (11:24):
Oh, the the AIIB is in Beijing. SY
OK. Well, let's zoom in on your particular role then. So what is it that you do,
day in day out? Or maybe broadly,like what is your overall objective?
SY (11:35):
So I can disclaim my role as always toying in between these three things, the compliance part,
and the conduct part and the culture part. To whatextent you're going to enforce compliance? Because
compliance is always like, you have a dictumand you have to enforce the dictum. The dictum
is given either by itself, or it is given by themarket entities. And then there is the conduct,
(11:57):
a conduct needs to be imbibed with advisory fromthe compliance division, so you have to advise
people on the right conduct. And then over aperiod of time, you don't need to do anything,
your culture evolves automatically. So thisis the toying that we do, day in and day out,
between compliance and conduct, ensuringthat these two things will evolve the
(12:19):
organisational culture in the long run.OF: So then let's talk about an example
then. Have you come across anyparticular examples when it comes
to compliance that you've had to get involved in?SY: It's not necessary that I should gather some
examples of what my work in the NDB is. But thereis a great amount of learning because of working
in the NDB, that we had an opportunity to observewhat sort of developments that are happening in
(12:42):
and around. But in my role in terms of thinkingabout compliance and conduct, we generally
focus upon what you call anti-discrimination,where you focus upon harassment, for example,
and try to ensure that the workplace is freeof harassment. That is a very mundane kind
of a role that a compliance officer carries. Butwhen you zoom into artificial intelligence, this
(13:07):
same harassment can take three different forms.It's not necessarily harassment by individual
to individual, it could be harassment by machineto individual. So it could be like an algorithm
grooming. So when you're watching certainYouTube videos, and there are certain algorithms,
and your kid is getting groomed, by the wayand the history of those videos he is getting
(13:30):
shown. So it could be a kind of a pseudo kind ofharassment that the machine can induce into you.
OF (13:37):
When you said the phrase “harassment by machine to human” like, that's where I think
about the people who are running their lives basedon the notifications from their phone. And then as
you say, like, you have people who are watchinga YouTube video, and then the algorithm takes
them into more and more extreme, extreme, extremevideos. And then you are actually making people
into more extremist thinkers.SY: Yes.
(13:57):
And that's a machine-learned harassment. SY
which is by person to the machine as well. Like,we can talk about Siri, we can talk about Alexa.
It's not necessarily that when you're talkingto Siri or Alexa, that every person is polite,
and every person talks only about things that theywant. But they do have Siri, they do harass Alexa.
(14:20):
So that harassment is from person to machine. Andthen we haven't yet seen - I think this is going
to be the word we are going to enter into shortly- harassment of machine to machine. So we really
don't know when an autonomous vehicle is goingto try to talk to - say, for example - an IoT
device connected to your home. So what sort ofbehaviours these machines are going to exhibit
(14:40):
to each other? So that is going to be anotherdynamic challenge that we are going to come to.
So a mundane job like a Compliance Officer, withthe ethical principles that we talk about, which
are never talked about openly, are becoming centrestage of discussion. Because when the machines are
coming into such kind of prominent roles, how theyinteract with humans, how humans are perceiving
(15:03):
them, and - in a short timeframe - how machinesare going to interact with each other. So that
is going to create a new set of challenges forcompliance and conduct, and even ethics as well.
That’s fascinating and scary at the same time. But you're talking about it right now
in the abstract. Like, this is something whichyou’re just interested in, and you're studying
(15:25):
right now. There's nothing right now thatyou're seeing, especially in the bank, right?
SY (15:29):
Correct. OF
that's something to watch out for in the future.SY: I think it is not necessary that I would
consider this something of the future. When peopletalk about technology, they always say that it is
about the future. But to some extent, mylearning so far, and my reading so far,
is not about technology of the future, but itis about mythology of the past as well. What
(15:52):
we always think is, what we are witnessing issomething new. But it is not so. In fact, the
same questions that we have, that we are tryingto articulate now, having evolved in different
phases, and in different contexts, even in thepast as well. Say for example, if you want to
understand compliance basically, people talk aboutnorms. So if you want to understand about norms,
(16:14):
you need to go a little further into the past,and try to see how humanity has first evolved.
So what has happened when humanity tried toconvert itself into societies. And if you
want to understand how humanity has evolved, youneed to go back again, to the evolution of the
universe itself. So how the universe has initiallystarted, and what actually led to the development
(16:34):
of humanity. Our span of existence on this planetis very miniscule. And it is within this span,
we now invented humanity, we now inventedsocieties, we now invented norms. So the point is,
when we're talking about technology, we tendto behave as if this is the world we live in.
But this is not the world, this is just the worldof the last 200 years. The world is basically the
(16:57):
13.8 billion years which we have crossed so far.So if somebody needs to understand what is going
to happen to technology in the future, what theyneed to do is to look back beyond these 50 years
that we're proud of, and then try to see how thesenorms originally got evolved. Then you’ll find
most answers. And that’s the reason I mentionedthat, when somebody talks about technology
and the future, the only answer we need to say isthat it's not about the future, you need to see
(17:20):
what made evolution possible so far, which willmake or break the evolution of the future as well.
OF (17:26):
My immediate reaction to hearing that is, do most compliance people think like you?
SY (17:32):
Not really. OF
you do link a lot of your thoughts - when itcomes to everyday, and you call it ‘mundane’
compliance - you link it to your cultural history.SY: But what I think has helped by my stay in
China is to know that these things are not uniqueto any country as such. So what I have heard in
(17:59):
India - we call it द्वैत [dvaita] - द्वैत [dvaita]is basically dualism, it is not necessarily that
we are one, it could be like a replica of severalthings. So it is like me and the other person,
me and God. So that द्वैत [dvaita] as a dualismtheory exists in a very important way in our
cultural writings, scriptures. And in Chinese - infact, I keep hearing this from a couple of other
(18:25):
friends when they talk about this - they also saythat in Chinese Confucianism - or maybe in Chinese
culture - there is this concept of 阴 [yīn] and阳 [yáng], which is basically again, the concept
of dualism. So, yes, compliance is a littlemundane. Compliance can be made interesting to
several things in life. The biggest learning thatI had in China here, is that it is not necessary
(18:48):
that it is your culture and my culture. If you goback into history, then we try to understand that
we are one, or we together at some stage. And ourbeliefs would have evolved at about the same time,
in different cultural or country contexts.OF: Yeah, especially when you see it in
terms of you said, which is… it's not going tobe about one culture versus another culture,
it's going to be about a personversus a machine. And in that case,
(19:10):
when you're comparing to a machine, then allof us humans are the same, right? It doesn't
matter about what kind of culture we come from.SY: The more your interaction with machines is
going to start, the more your understandingof yourself comes in. So I say this journey
for me is from artificial intelligence- from ‘AI’ - to 'Who am I’. So, the AI,
(19:30):
if somebody is going to embark on the journey,he will end up ultimately to the question of
‘who am I’. So then if you understand yourselfas human, then you understand what is the other
distinct entity called ‘machine.’ I think thatis the seed of thought which has sparked here,
especially in this country, because there is a lotof interaction with machines, a lot of interaction
(19:51):
with technology. And suddenly you will get a doubtas to “Are we going to be like, machines are going
to take over human beings?” Then the fundamentalquestion is “But do we know what is being human?”
And if you understand that, you will understandall the things that we have spoken about just now,
how we have created institutions, how have creatednorms, how we have created compliance. Then you
will have a fascinating journey into the machineworld. So then you will be equipped to understand
(20:16):
how machines might be here, because this is goingto be history repeating itself for the future.
OF (20:20):
Right. Well, thank you so much, Srini. I mean, that's a fascinating topic. I mean,
you've you've taken it from compliance, to norms,to technology, to ethics, to what it actually
means to be a human. I didn't expect to coverthis with somebody who had a title ‘Compliance
Officer’. But I really appreciate that. Andthanks so much for for sharing some of your
(20:40):
views with us. Let us move on to Part 2.SY: Thank you. I'm excited to do that.
[Part 2]OF: What is your favourite China-related fact?
SY (20:52):
This is one of the questions people keep asking me when they come to China,
and they say “Hey, can you write my name inChinese?” I think that is the most interesting
fact. I always try to tell any visitor who comesto China, you can't write your name in Chinese
at all. Like what we do in other languages, wetalk about alphabets. But Chinese doesn’t work
(21:15):
on alphabets, Chinese works on characters. Soif I say for example “Srini” there is no way
in which you can write ‘Srini’ in Chinese.It is like mathematics. So for mathematics,
how can you write ‘Srini’ in mathematics? SoI keep asking the question to people saying,
“Well can you write ‘Srini’ in mathematics?” No,because you have got nine characters which can
(21:35):
represent the entire mathematics. And in thosenine characters, you can't create a combination
called ‘Srini.’ And that's the most, I thinkfor me, is an eye-opener, and the reason for
shutting down my Chinese classes.OF: Do you have a favourite
word or phrase in Chinese?SY: I don't know whether you’ve ever
heard that word, it's ‘duāng’.OF: OK.
(22:01):
D-U-A-N-G, ‘duāng’. Actually in 2015, Jackie Chan - when he was doing a kind of an interview
for a shampoo ad, it seems - he simply saidthat "My hair, after applying this shampoo,
looks like ‘duāng’!” That word has rockedthe entire internet, went viral, and there
(22:21):
were like 8 million 微博 [Wēibó] hits that haveoccurred, because there is no word ‘duāng’. And
everybody started now using that word, saying“Did you ‘duāng’ this?”, “Oh, this is ‘duāng’
interesting”. And the influence of this wordhas been so immense that they have created a new
character to say what ‘duāng’ actually is. It's avery funny story that I heard, and I tell it as a
(22:46):
kind of a favourite word. ‘Duāng.’OF: What's your favourite
destination within China?SY: I would always recommend
to people to definitely visit the Three GorgesDam. That is a phenomenally, infrastructure-ally,
technologically and engineering marvel thatone should watch when he has been in China. So,
(23:09):
alongside the dam, you created a kind of a shiplock system. But when I saw it - literally the
water getting poured, the door getting closed,and the water getting poured inside - and the
ship literally gets lifted up, and then moves onto the second stage, third stage, fourth stage.
The three-hour journey is like a journey of alifetime, when you're getting transferred from
(23:29):
this side of the dam to the other side of the dam.OF: Very good. If you left China, what would you
miss the most, and what would you miss the least?SY: I would miss the least is basically my passion
for watching movies, mostly Telugu movies. Andbefore coming here to China in 2017, in 2016 in
India, we have a ‘book my show' app where youbook your movie tickets, and I got an email in
(23:53):
January 2017, congratulating me for the number oftickets I purchased, which was around 120 tickets
for the year. So that is completely frozen for me.So I think I'm going to enjoy that when I go back.
That's the first thing. And the second thing is,if I think about what I will miss, it’s basically
the walk to office. The most luxurious thingthat you can have, you can walk to office and
(24:19):
go back to home on foot. So I think that is whatI might miss, if I had to work any other place.
OF (24:24):
I think you do have a luxurious situation, even for China standards. Like, not many people
walk to work in China.SY: Maybe, yeah.
Is there anything that still surprises you about life in China?
SY (24:40):
I think the only thing that surprises me is the precision. There are a lot of things I had
an apprehension about a country like Indiato some extent. When we were taught in our
childhood that one of the reasons for theslow pace of development in India could be
the population. And with population there areproblems of coordination, there are problems
(25:02):
of policy formulation, and there are issues interms of implementation. So we ascribe some of
these pitfalls to population. But coming here, Ireally understood, even with population, you can
have a lot of coordination. And there is a kind ofmethod to madness that leads to perfect precision.
That fascinates me very much. Any single thingthat you do, there is a kind of an order. And
(25:26):
that is what fascinates me about this place.OF: And do you think that could be translated
back into India?SY: To some extent,
we started doing that, because the enableris being digital. So I think that there
are pockets where we have achievedthat. And the only reason for me to
be very bullish is about the technology.OF: What is your favourite place to go,
(25:49):
to eat or drink or just hang out?SY: So the best place to hang around
is always The Bund. And once you go andtake a walk in the evening, I think you
really can't stop admiring the other side, howit has been created. And the phenomenal fact
is that it has been done in the past 20 years.OF: Yeah. What is your favourite WeChat sticker?
(26:10):
The WeChat sticker is a cute little girl. And she exudes a kind of weird expression,
like “Oops", kind of a thing. And that is themost needed in the messaging platforms, especially
when you do those silly mistakes, actually.OF: This is actually one of my favourites too.
Is it? OF
way of contorting her face.SY: Yes, yes.
OF (26:32):
What is your favourite song to sing at KTV? SY
and start singing. So don't venture into that.OF: Do you sing at all? Like,
when you're whistling down the street, or..?SY: No, when I started in fact, I didn't do much
karaoke. But I happened to do karaoke a coupleof months ago. And people started thinking that
(26:57):
the machine got corrupt, because they said “Whenwe started doing the karaoke a few weeks before,
it was working fine”. And when I startedsinging, they said “Why is this voice not
getting picked up?” And they all got surprisedas to why this is happening. Then they understood
that it is not a problem with the machine. Sothey let the individual go out of that room.
I'm trying to link this back to what you said before
(27:19):
about machines harassing people. And people…SY: Maybe it is ‘people harassing machines’.
The final question, what other China-related media or sources of information do you rely on?
SY (27:33):
So basically, if you have WeChat, you have broadly everything in there. Yeah. Mostly,
I think I'm a little weak in terms of trackingthe local news. But things of my interest,
you will always have WeChat groups. You havegot different groups of communities, as such.
So I think the messages get floating around.OF: Yeah, you're not the first person to say that.
(27:55):
It's how we all work here in China, right?SY: Yes.
OF (27:58):
Well, thank you so much Srini, it's again a pleasure to have you here. I
have one final request. And that is foryou to tell me out of everyone who you
know in China, who should I interview next?SY: So I have got one of my Vice Presidents,
Mr. Leslie Maasdrop. I found him to be the kindof person who could actually have some of the
(28:22):
insights that you're looking for, especially forthe country, about the background of a person,
and how drastic differences you can see a personcan undergo over a period of time in terms of
the positions that he gets into. So I think itwould be my privilege to introduce him to you.
Thank you so much, I really look forward to meeting Leslie
SY (28:42):
Fantastic, and I wish you all the best, and thank you so much.
[Outro]OF: So the images from today's
chat are all on social media. There is Srini andhis object, the apple, and the three ways in which
the apple describes the development of mankind.The Latin phrase which describes the Srini’s habit
of talking in threes, is ‘omne trium perfectum’,I posted a graphic about that too, just in case
(29:05):
you also didn't know how to spell it. Apart fromthat, there is his favourite WeChat sticker, the
little girl with the ‘whoops’ expression. To me,she's saying more than just ‘whoops’, but I can't
exactly put into words the full extent of theemotions that she's displaying. To see what I'm
talking about, as always check out @mosaicofchina_on Instagram and @mosaicofchina on Facebook,
or add me on my Wechat ID (29:22):
mosaicofchina, and I'll add you to the group there. What else?
There's images of the BRICS countries, and theNew Development Bank. And there's also a graph
showing the population of China versus India.There's also classic photos of the Shanghai Bund,
the place that Srini mentioned as his favouriteplace to hang out in China. There are photos from
(29:45):
the lock alongside the Three Gorges Dam. And ofcourse there is the character for ‘duāng,’ the
word which was totally made up by Jackie Chan. Iresearched this and it was from way back in 2015.
So please let me know if this is something you'restill either using or hearing in China in 2019.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, extraediting support from Milo de Prieto, artwork
(30:07):
by Denny Newell, and China support fromAlston Gong. I will see you next week.
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