January 13, 2020 • 25 mins
I didn't know I was interested in the art of jewellery design until I met Angie. Maybe that's because I didn't think about the precision of the tool-work; maybe it's because I didn't pay attention to the forms and structure of precious metals; or maybe it's because I've never met anyone as unique as Angie Wu. Angie has a fascinating background, and it was a joy to spend a short time together in her company, and learn about her art and her clientele. I hope you'll enjoy it too. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 00:55 - Part 1 14:40 - Part 2 22:30 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[Trailer]AW: ‘Don't
(00:03):
Cry for Me, Argentina’.OF: Oh you’re kidding!
AW (00:03):
I’m very good with that. But usually after that song, I cannot sing anymore.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
And we're back, it’s 2020 and I've startedthe new decade with a stinking cold. And
(00:24):
to make matters worse, I just realised that themedicine I've been taking expired in 2018. So if
this episode ends up being the first and lastof the year, then you'll know what happened.
Luckily for me, in my recording with today's guest- the award-winning jewellery designer and maker,
Angie Wu - we introduced her very clearly rightat the beginning of our chat. So I don't need
to do anything else, except to wish you a happyand healthy start to the year. And I'm looking
(00:48):
forward to bringing you the rest of Season 1over the next few months. Starting… right… now.
[Part 1]OF: Well, I'm here with Angie
Wu. Angie is the founder of AWÜ Studio.AW: Thank you for having me.
OF (01:03):
My pleasure. And first of all, what is AWÜ Studio?
AW (01:06):
For now it's a jewellery brand. And it's just my name, It’s Angie Wu,
so it’s my abbreviation. It’s a design studio.OF: Excellent. And people will probably already
notice your accent. But before we gointo that, the first question I ask is,
what object did you bring today?AW: I brought a calliper. I
(01:27):
brought this actually from Canada, like,this has been travelling with me everywhere
since I was 17. So it's something thatI have always used, and I always carry
with me, no matter where I go.OF: I've actually never seen a
calliper. So it's like a measuring instrument?AW: Yes, you can measure the inner distance and
(01:47):
outer distance, you can measure the thicknessof anything. So it's really, really handy.
OF (01:53):
Right. And presumably, there are now electronic or digital versions of the
calliper. But you decide to use this version. Why?AW: I have both. But, I mean, I started with this
and have a sentiment about it. It’s my firstprofessional tool in design. And it's always
more precise, when you when you use this.OF: Right. Well, thank you for that. And
(02:17):
of course, this leads us intowhat you do, which is jewellery
design. And you make everything yourself too.AW: Yes. And the reason I brought a calliper
is also to illustrate that for me, tools havealways been something very special for me. I love
tools. I love using tools. I love this magicaltransformation of making something out of another
(02:37):
substance. So it's like, this transformation.OF: And it's always been jewellery,
or you've been doing other design before that?AW: Actually, I studied design art in Montreal.
So as a design artist, you mainly focuson the concept - the art concept - but
you create design wares. So, furniture and anyaccessories, and that's how I started to use my
(03:02):
callipers. And then I did a product designdegree. I can design anything, even cars,
or dental equipment and stuff. And then I tooka goldsmith class, and now I'm doing jewellery.
Right. And you mentioned Montreal, so is that your accent?
It's not quite a Montreal accent, is it?AW: No. My accent is really strange. A lot
(03:25):
of people never, like, understand. When people askme where I’m from, I usually say I'm from Taiwan,
because that's where I was born. And then peoplewill continue to ask me “Why do you speak such
good English?” So I saw “Well, I'm Canadian”.Actually, too, I have a Canadian passport. And
then they’re like “Why do you have a strange,like, Latin accent in your English?” And that's
(03:49):
when I have to tell them that I’m also fromArgentina. I actually grew up in Buenos Aires,
before we immigrated to Montreal. So webasically spent almost 10 years in each country:
10 years in Taipei, and eight years inBuenos Aires, and 12 years in Montreal,
before I moved to Spain, and then now in Shanghai.OF: So it's more a Spanish accent, basically…
AW (04:13):
It's a Spanish accent because that's my first foreign language. Yeah.
OF (04:17):
Wow. I mean, I have some version of identity crisis myself, with… I’ve got four grandparents
from four different countries. But I think you,maybe, are a bit more confused than me even.
AW (04:29):
Yeah. I think ever since I left Taiwan when I was 10, I’ve never not had an identity crisis,
ever in my life. And especially in Shanghaiit’s really strange, because you would think
that someone who looks Chinese coming toChina, we would integrate better. I actually
suffer more identity crisis in Shanghai,because local people don't see me as local,
(04:53):
and Taiwanese people don't think I’m Taiwanese,they get super confused and they don't know
where to put me in which category. YeahOF: Yeah. I mean, I'm the same. I used to
be a headhunter for 11 years, and we like to putpeople into their compartments, and you're the
person who I would not know what box to put in.AW: Yeah, because people like to predict your
(05:13):
behaviour, right?OF: Right.
And they just don't know what to do with me. OF
go to Taiwan then, is it the same story?AW: Yes, this is the strangest thing, like,
after living in Shanghai, every time I go backto Taiwan to see my my grandmother and my family,
I mean my relatives, they are reallyeager to tell me that I’m not Taiwanese,
they think I'm Chinese. It's super strange,I think it's because I've never stayed
(05:37):
in a place long enough to form a very strongaccent of anywhere. So I'm like a sponge,
I absorb the accent of anywhere I stay.So I'm pretty sure I have some Chinese
accent when I speak Chinese. But alsoI have a very strong Taiwanese accent,
somehow. I don't even speak Taiwanese.So yeah, this is super strange. In Spain,
they think I'm from Argentina; In Argentina, theythink I'm from Spain. And when I speak French,
(06:02):
French people think I’m Québecoise, and - becauseI studied at Alliance Française, that’s where I
took my French when I was in Argentina -of course Canadian people, they can tell
that I have a Parisian accent. Super confusing.OF: But there was a reason I wanted to ask you
that particular question, because…where is home to you right now?
OK, I always have this problem with defining home. Like, I used to think it’s where my parents
(06:27):
are, and where my family is, and where peopleI love are. But now they're everywhere in the
world. So recently I realised that home is whereI am, it’s where my heart is. And I also came
to the realisation that your body and yourbeing is the only person who is going to be
with you for the rest of your life. So yourbody is your home, and it’s your temple and
(06:52):
you should take care of it. So home is where I am.OF: Nice. And I think you built on that concept,
didn't you, with your jewellery?AW: Yes, that was actually my first
collection in 2014. I tend to make jewellerythat are more conceptual and more artistic,
it’s kind of a marriage of my two studies likeproduct design and fine art. So I like to make
(07:15):
conceptual wearable art. Like, functional,but very conceptual, very artistic. So that
collection is definitely not very representativeof my work. But the meaning is so important, so
I decided to create a very small collection of theshape of a little house - necklace, earrings - and
(07:36):
the idea is that when you wear that, it remindsyou that home is where you are. And when you give
these away, it’s like telling the other person“Home is where you are, where I belong”. So
it's a small collection, but it's very special.OF: Well that’s a nice starting point to talking
about your skills, like, how would you saythat you have progressed from that first
(07:56):
collection to what you do these days?AW: I mean, a lot, it’s been five years
already. And of course, like with any skill, themore you do it, the better you are. And this is
the really exciting part because now I'm makingbigger statement pieces and incorporating more
gemstones. I only work with precious metals,so usually silver, gold and platinum. But I am
(08:21):
very excited about what I do, because thisis something I can improve for the rest of
my life. And it's just really cool.OF: So tell me about some of your
favourite recent pieces.AW: OK, so recently, I have
been working with rough diamond. It's actuallydiamond, but uncut, and unpolished. And for me,
there's no more precious material, less precious.everything for me from nature is beautiful and is
(08:47):
valuable. So you can give me a rock, and I canconvert it into some beautiful jewellery. And
for me, diamonds - OK there’s a value of course, amarket value - but it doesn't necessarily… for me,
it’s not the most beautiful stone the world.So I like this concept of the rough diamond,
it doesn't look like diamond, but it isactually diamond. And I like to work with that,
(09:12):
pairing with silver, and create very interestingartistic pieces, also to challenge people to
understand that, “Why is diamond, the shinyones, special?” Now, everything can be special.
OF (09:30):
And so, is that's specific for the China market, or do you think this is something
which you could be doing wherever you are.AW: I have never intended it to be local. It
has always been international, like me. And alsothere's another thing, my approach to design,
I never think about my audience when I design.Except when I do custom-made, because I do
make a lot of bespoke, like, engagement rings andwedding rings. But other than that, when I create
(09:56):
my own collections and my artworks, it’s just aself-expression. I don't think about the market,
I don't think about the profitability, Icreate something that I want to express.
But I do apply everything I learned in productdesign, about ergonomics, all this… size and
dimensions… It has to be functional, it has to becomfortable to wear, but it’s my self-expression.
(10:22):
And so here in China, the customers who come into your studio, what is the breakdown
in terms of the Chinese versus the non-Chinese?AW: Half of them are Western people in Shanghai,
and half of them are Chinese. And the Westernpeople tend to understand quicker and better
my concepts, they understand theseconceptual designs. And Chinese people,
they find it fascinating that it’s sosculptural, something they don't understand,
(10:45):
and I always encourage them to try them out.And then they realise that it's actually
very beautiful, it fits them. And so it's veryencouraging because it's special and unique. Yeah.
Can you generalise in terms of what a Chinese customer tends to like more than a non-Chinese
customer? Or is it hard to generalise like that?AW: So OK, there are two styles that are very
(11:08):
prominent in my work. One is architecturalstyle, like very rational, structural,
and linear, and geometrical; and the otherone is nature. My mom is a biologist,
so I always grew up in nature, I love nature.So I work a lot with nature, like leaves,
seeds, all these organic shapes. So the Westernpeople, they like a lot of architectural styles
(11:33):
and linear styles. But Chinese people, unlessthey are architects or designers, they usually
tend to like, more the nature style.OF: That’s interesting. And so,
who is the real Angie then, you know,in terms of like, what makes you tick?
AW (11:49):
Yeah, so I'm a very nervous person. And I like to be alone a lot. This is something that most
people would not expect from me. I love solitude,I need a lot of time alone. When I’m alone I feel
good. But when I am with people, I come alive,and I can be very outgoing and passionate. I
(12:14):
think this is also part of me, it’s… Yeah…OF: Yeah, I think that's where we're quite
similar, because people would see me as veryoutgoing. I mean, look, I'm hosting a podcast,
for God's sake. But I think I'm the same,like, even if I have a party at my house,
I will usually go into my room and close the doorfor 10 minutes, and then come out afterwards.
(12:34):
Yeah, I need that balance in life, the time alone. And the time when I'm with people. Yeah,
I always get too excited when I’m with people. AndI think when I'm with people, my Latin side comes
out. Like, definitely, people can feel that.OF: That's interesting. And then when you're
working, is it the more kind of introvert side?AW: Yes, I like to work alone. And I think that's
(13:00):
more the Canadian or the Taiwanese side. I shutdown, and I like to immerse in my own world.
OF (13:06):
So where do you think the future will be for you? Do you think you'll stay in Shanghai,
how long have you been here now for?AW: If I tell you that you can guess my age,
but I don't care. I have been here for 14years. And I will always keep my headquarters
in Shanghai. It’s where I studied, and I lovewhat has been going on. But definitely I am
(13:28):
going to be going back and forth. And ideally,moving to Europe first. European people really
understand my work, like, really quickly.Yeah, and I don't worry about the market.
And so obviously, you've been very successful. But I want to ask you, where have been the biggest
difficulties or even the biggest failures?AW: I wouldn't call myself successful. I’m
(13:52):
doing better every year, so this is really good.It's very encouraging and I’m very grateful
to those who believe in me. And the difficultpart has always been the business. I was always
trained as an artist and a designer. I've neverdealt with business, I'm very bad with numbers.
So all these legal things and paperwork drive mecrazy. You know, for me, the only thing I knew is
(14:17):
going to markets - like, in Argentina and Canada,you have these weekend markets, designer markets,
and you sell your work, like a gypsy - that’s whatI know to do. And now my brand is more than that.
Right. OK well, thank you so much, Angie, it was great to have you here. That's the end of our
first part, and now we'll go on to Part 2.AW: OK, great, thank you.
(14:42):
[Part 2]OF: Right,
so the next part is, I asked you 10 questions.So let's go straight into it. Question 1:
What is your favourite China related fact?AW: OK, so the first time I heard this fact,
I was fascinating and shocked. Shanghaiitself is around 26 million people. The
entire Taiwan is no more than 23 millionpeople. And this just blew my mind.
(15:05):
And I think that's just the official number, there probably are some others too, right?
AW (15:09):
Yes. OF
have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?AW: Actually, I do. And I still cannot find
the right English term for that. So, when I grewup my mom was a teacher, professor, right? So she
always cared about inner beauty. She was alwaystrying to use this word called 气质 [qìzhí]. If you
separate the word, it means ‘the qualityof your 气 [qì]’. It's like inner beauty,
(15:34):
grace and elegance. And it's something - my momwould say - something you cannot buy, you have
to nurture it, you have to build it, and it hasto be from childhood. So she always says like,
if you are someone with good 气质 [qìzhí],you will always benefit from that. Like,
if it's outer beauty, it’s something thatdoesn't last. So she always wanted us to
build this inner beauty (15:55):
气质 [qìzhí]. OF
favourite destination within China?AW: Definitely Yunnan. I was designing museums
before - OK, that's what I was doing before mybrand, I was a museum designer - we built museums
around the world (16:11):
Science and Technology Museums, Childrens Museums… and we built an Agricultural
Museum in Yunnan. So I've been there, for threeyears, going back and forth. It’s so biodiverse.
And they are 26 minorities in Yunnan itself.And this is so beautiful. These are native,
local people, and they still make a lot of thingsby hand. They create their own tools. And the
(16:37):
jewellery, the accessories they make them by hand.Their clothes…. This is so beautiful, I mean, it’s
the most exotic thing about China.OF: And where was the museum?
AW (16:48):
The museum is in 曲靖 [Qūjìng], it’s like two hours away from 昆明 [Kūnmíng]. But we
had the chance to travel everywhere in Yunnanwith the government, with the client, so I had
a chance to see the beauty Yunnan. It’s amazing.OF: You’re making me very jealous. I've only ever
done a stopover in 昆明 [Kūnmíng]. I really want togo down, but you really have to have a good, like,
(17:11):
week to go to all the places.AW: Yes.
OF (17:13):
And even then, just the main places. There's so many other small places right?
AW (17:16):
Yes. OF
and keep going. If you left China, what would youmiss the most, and what would you miss the least?
I would miss the convenience, of all these apps like Taobao, 饿了么 [Èleme], 滴滴 [Dīdī],
like, really, there's no place in the world likeShanghai. And what I would miss the least is the
(17:36):
noise. I don't like noise in general, so… Yeah.OF: Is there anything that still
surprises you about life in China?AW: Yeah, so recently, I had a really
bad experience. Like, I have this studio thatI built, my jewellery studio, in Jing’An Villa,
close to 静安 [Jìng'ān]. And for five years,everything was great, I even just renewed the
(18:02):
contract with them. And then out of the blue whenI was in Italy doing my exhibition in April, the
landlord just called me and told me he sold thebuilding. So he wanted me out in one month. And
he didn't honour the contract. For three years,he was telling me “Oh, we trust each other, I like
you so much.” So I couldn't do anything about it.OF: Ach. Just when you think you understand how
(18:24):
things work, everything's running smoothly,there’s always going to be something that
comes unexpectedAW: Of course.
OF (18:28):
What is your favourite place to go out, to eat, to drink or hang out?
AW (18:32):
I still go to Malabar, I love the Spanish food there. And I go to Barbarian, and Bar Centrale,
Fat Cow, so these are the few places I go often.OF: Would you be able to choose one favourite?
I really like Malabar, because of the Spanish environment.
OF (18:50):
Do you know, I haven't been there. That's the one place you said that I haven't been.
AW (18:53):
The food is really good. And it's not overpriced. Really good portions,
it’s not like really tiny tapas.So I will take you there next time.
OF (19:02):
That's a date. What is the best or worst purchase you've made in China?
AW (19:07):
I have to say the best. It's amazing. You know how humid is Shanghai right? So I bought this
machine - I discovered it by accident on Taobao- and it's actually a blower that connects to a
blanket, like a double-layer blanket with holeson it. So when you blow for one hour - you put
this blanket between your bed and your mattressand your duvet- and if you blow it for one hour,
(19:32):
it will eliminate all the humidity and dustmites. Because I’m allergic to all kinds of
mites. So the bed would become fluffy, superdry, super comfy. So I've been using that
for the last eight years. It’s really reallycool, everyone should have that in Shanghai.
OF (19:49):
Wow. What is your favourite WeChat sticker? AW
two months, depending what I add, new ones. Butrecently it has been this reindeer that’s rolling,
like, on his back, on waves. And he’s just rollingon this, looking super happy and comfortable.
(20:12):
That's cool because you actually do a lot of water sports, right?
AW (20:15):
Yeah, I actually do. I do windsurfing and kitesurfing. And this little reindeer
just remind me of my happy time by the beach.OF: And that’s not far from Shanghai, right?
No, it’s only one hour exactly from Jing’An Temple. And it's a private club, but anyone can
join. you can do SUP, canoe, windsurfing,sailing, and wakeboarding. It’s really cool,
(20:41):
if anyone wants information, you can ask me.OF: That's great. Next question,
what is your go-to song to sing at KTV?AW: So… ‘Don't Cry for Me, Argentina’.
OF (20:50):
Oh you’re kidding! AW
OK, so that loops back to our very first point on this podcast. So, that's because you're
Argentinian, or at least one eighth Argentinian?AW: No but also because the song falls into my
voice range. And I can do that high pitchreally nicely. But usually after that song,
(21:10):
I cannot sing anymore. But I love it.And also people know I’m from Argentina,
so they love to hear me singing thissong. That's how I impress people. And
I just need that one song, then I'm done.OF: And finally, what other China-related
sources of information do you use?AW: To be honest, like, I've been so
busy the last five years with this brand, Idon't follow news so much anymore. So I have
(21:34):
to tell you that my best resource for news is myassistant. She loves news. And she's reading all
kinds of news all the time. So she's the one whoalways, like, keeps me updated on what's going on
with the world, with China, and everything. Yeah.OF: Oh that's great. Wow, that's a really useful
resource to have, she is indispensable obviously.AW: For sure.
(21:54):
Well, thank you so much Angie, that was really interesting. The last question
I ask everyone on this podcast is,out of everyone you know in China,
who would you recommend that I interview next?AW: So you should interview Katherine. She's
a healer. She's from Peru. And she doesworkshops on cleansing. It's really good
(22:16):
for people who are living in Shanghai, we arealways in a very stressful lifestyle. Yeah.
Wow. I've never met a healer like that before. I'm looking forward to meeting her.
Thank you very much.AW: Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So when Angie mentioned her
surprise at the fact that the official populationof Shanghai is a few million larger than the
(22:37):
population of Taiwan, careful listeners outthere might have remembered that Vy from FitFam
in Episode 8 said the exact same thing aboutthe population of Australia. So I looked it up,
and yes, Taiwan's population is 23.6 millionand Australia's is 23.8. So there you have it,
one city, one island and one continent allwith the same population, more or less.
(22:58):
I related very strongly to Angie's definitionof home, so I really liked that meaning behind
the jewellery collection that she made aroundthis concept. Please check out the photos on
social media. We're at @mosaicofchina_ onInstagram or @mosaicofchina on Facebook.
Or you can add me on WeChat using my ID: mosaicofchina, and I'll add you there myself. (23:11):
undefined
Alongside that collection, the second image Iposted is some of her work with the unpolished
rough diamonds. And the final image was acomparison between the architectural style
preferred by Western customers, versusthe organic and natural style favoured
by the Chinese customers. I lookedat Angie's favourite word 气质 [qìzhí],
(23:35):
and the translation I got was ‘temperament'or ‘disposition’. But there's something about
Angie's direct translation - ‘the qualityof your 气 [qì]’ - which just seemed to make
more sense to me. If anyone out there has abetter translation, then please let me know. I
also uploaded a map I found of the distributionand population of ethnic minorities in Yunnan,
which is fascinating since it's the most diverseprovince in China, in terms of ethnic mix. Other
(24:01):
than that, there is a photo of Angie withher object, the callipers; there's a selfie,
with me looking totally demented, I've got tosay, but Angie looks lovely; there's a photo
of her favourite restaurant Malabar; there isan image of the bed humidifier, which was the
best purchase in humid Shanghai; and of course herfavourite WeChat sticker, the swimming reindeer.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, extraediting support from Milo de Prieto,
(24:25):
artwork by Denny Newell, and China supportfrom Alston Gong. I'll see you next week.
[Trailer]AW: ‘Don't
(00:03):
Cry for Me, Argentina’.OF: Oh you’re kidding!
AW (00:03):
I’m very good with that. But usually after that song, I cannot sing anymore.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
And we're back, it’s 2020 and I've startedthe new decade with a stinking cold. And
(00:24):
to make matters worse, I just realised that themedicine I've been taking expired in 2018. So if
this episode ends up being the first and lastof the year, then you'll know what happened.
Luckily for me, in my recording with today's guest- the award-winning jewellery designer and maker,
Angie Wu - we introduced her very clearly rightat the beginning of our chat. So I don't need
to do anything else, except to wish you a happyand healthy start to the year. And I'm looking
(00:48):
forward to bringing you the rest of Season 1over the next few months. Starting… right… now.
[Part 1]OF: Well, I'm here with Angie
Wu. Angie is the founder of AWÜ Studio.AW: Thank you for having me.
OF (01:03):
My pleasure. And first of all, what is AWÜ Studio?
AW (01:06):
For now it's a jewellery brand. And it's just my name, It’s Angie Wu,
so it’s my abbreviation. It’s a design studio.OF: Excellent. And people will probably already
notice your accent. But before we gointo that, the first question I ask is,
what object did you bring today?AW: I brought a calliper. I
(01:27):
brought this actually from Canada, like,this has been travelling with me everywhere
since I was 17. So it's something thatI have always used, and I always carry
with me, no matter where I go.OF: I've actually never seen a
calliper. So it's like a measuring instrument?AW: Yes, you can measure the inner distance and
(01:47):
outer distance, you can measure the thicknessof anything. So it's really, really handy.
OF (01:53):
Right. And presumably, there are now electronic or digital versions of the
calliper. But you decide to use this version. Why?AW: I have both. But, I mean, I started with this
and have a sentiment about it. It’s my firstprofessional tool in design. And it's always
more precise, when you when you use this.OF: Right. Well, thank you for that. And
(02:17):
of course, this leads us intowhat you do, which is jewellery
design. And you make everything yourself too.AW: Yes. And the reason I brought a calliper
is also to illustrate that for me, tools havealways been something very special for me. I love
tools. I love using tools. I love this magicaltransformation of making something out of another
(02:37):
substance. So it's like, this transformation.OF: And it's always been jewellery,
or you've been doing other design before that?AW: Actually, I studied design art in Montreal.
So as a design artist, you mainly focuson the concept - the art concept - but
you create design wares. So, furniture and anyaccessories, and that's how I started to use my
(03:02):
callipers. And then I did a product designdegree. I can design anything, even cars,
or dental equipment and stuff. And then I tooka goldsmith class, and now I'm doing jewellery.
Right. And you mentioned Montreal, so is that your accent?
It's not quite a Montreal accent, is it?AW: No. My accent is really strange. A lot
(03:25):
of people never, like, understand. When people askme where I’m from, I usually say I'm from Taiwan,
because that's where I was born. And then peoplewill continue to ask me “Why do you speak such
good English?” So I saw “Well, I'm Canadian”.Actually, too, I have a Canadian passport. And
then they’re like “Why do you have a strange,like, Latin accent in your English?” And that's
(03:49):
when I have to tell them that I’m also fromArgentina. I actually grew up in Buenos Aires,
before we immigrated to Montreal. So webasically spent almost 10 years in each country:
10 years in Taipei, and eight years inBuenos Aires, and 12 years in Montreal,
before I moved to Spain, and then now in Shanghai.OF: So it's more a Spanish accent, basically…
AW (04:13):
It's a Spanish accent because that's my first foreign language. Yeah.
OF (04:17):
Wow. I mean, I have some version of identity crisis myself, with… I’ve got four grandparents
from four different countries. But I think you,maybe, are a bit more confused than me even.
AW (04:29):
Yeah. I think ever since I left Taiwan when I was 10, I’ve never not had an identity crisis,
ever in my life. And especially in Shanghaiit’s really strange, because you would think
that someone who looks Chinese coming toChina, we would integrate better. I actually
suffer more identity crisis in Shanghai,because local people don't see me as local,
(04:53):
and Taiwanese people don't think I’m Taiwanese,they get super confused and they don't know
where to put me in which category. YeahOF: Yeah. I mean, I'm the same. I used to
be a headhunter for 11 years, and we like to putpeople into their compartments, and you're the
person who I would not know what box to put in.AW: Yeah, because people like to predict your
(05:13):
behaviour, right?OF: Right.
And they just don't know what to do with me. OF
go to Taiwan then, is it the same story?AW: Yes, this is the strangest thing, like,
after living in Shanghai, every time I go backto Taiwan to see my my grandmother and my family,
I mean my relatives, they are reallyeager to tell me that I’m not Taiwanese,
they think I'm Chinese. It's super strange,I think it's because I've never stayed
(05:37):
in a place long enough to form a very strongaccent of anywhere. So I'm like a sponge,
I absorb the accent of anywhere I stay.So I'm pretty sure I have some Chinese
accent when I speak Chinese. But alsoI have a very strong Taiwanese accent,
somehow. I don't even speak Taiwanese.So yeah, this is super strange. In Spain,
they think I'm from Argentina; In Argentina, theythink I'm from Spain. And when I speak French,
(06:02):
French people think I’m Québecoise, and - becauseI studied at Alliance Française, that’s where I
took my French when I was in Argentina -of course Canadian people, they can tell
that I have a Parisian accent. Super confusing.OF: But there was a reason I wanted to ask you
that particular question, because…where is home to you right now?
OK, I always have this problem with defining home. Like, I used to think it’s where my parents
(06:27):
are, and where my family is, and where peopleI love are. But now they're everywhere in the
world. So recently I realised that home is whereI am, it’s where my heart is. And I also came
to the realisation that your body and yourbeing is the only person who is going to be
with you for the rest of your life. So yourbody is your home, and it’s your temple and
(06:52):
you should take care of it. So home is where I am.OF: Nice. And I think you built on that concept,
didn't you, with your jewellery?AW: Yes, that was actually my first
collection in 2014. I tend to make jewellerythat are more conceptual and more artistic,
it’s kind of a marriage of my two studies likeproduct design and fine art. So I like to make
(07:15):
conceptual wearable art. Like, functional,but very conceptual, very artistic. So that
collection is definitely not very representativeof my work. But the meaning is so important, so
I decided to create a very small collection of theshape of a little house - necklace, earrings - and
(07:36):
the idea is that when you wear that, it remindsyou that home is where you are. And when you give
these away, it’s like telling the other person“Home is where you are, where I belong”. So
it's a small collection, but it's very special.OF: Well that’s a nice starting point to talking
about your skills, like, how would you saythat you have progressed from that first
(07:56):
collection to what you do these days?AW: I mean, a lot, it’s been five years
already. And of course, like with any skill, themore you do it, the better you are. And this is
the really exciting part because now I'm makingbigger statement pieces and incorporating more
gemstones. I only work with precious metals,so usually silver, gold and platinum. But I am
(08:21):
very excited about what I do, because thisis something I can improve for the rest of
my life. And it's just really cool.OF: So tell me about some of your
favourite recent pieces.AW: OK, so recently, I have
been working with rough diamond. It's actuallydiamond, but uncut, and unpolished. And for me,
there's no more precious material, less precious.everything for me from nature is beautiful and is
(08:47):
valuable. So you can give me a rock, and I canconvert it into some beautiful jewellery. And
for me, diamonds - OK there’s a value of course, amarket value - but it doesn't necessarily… for me,
it’s not the most beautiful stone the world.So I like this concept of the rough diamond,
it doesn't look like diamond, but it isactually diamond. And I like to work with that,
(09:12):
pairing with silver, and create very interestingartistic pieces, also to challenge people to
understand that, “Why is diamond, the shinyones, special?” Now, everything can be special.
OF (09:30):
And so, is that's specific for the China market, or do you think this is something
which you could be doing wherever you are.AW: I have never intended it to be local. It
has always been international, like me. And alsothere's another thing, my approach to design,
I never think about my audience when I design.Except when I do custom-made, because I do
make a lot of bespoke, like, engagement rings andwedding rings. But other than that, when I create
(09:56):
my own collections and my artworks, it’s just aself-expression. I don't think about the market,
I don't think about the profitability, Icreate something that I want to express.
But I do apply everything I learned in productdesign, about ergonomics, all this… size and
dimensions… It has to be functional, it has to becomfortable to wear, but it’s my self-expression.
(10:22):
And so here in China, the customers who come into your studio, what is the breakdown
in terms of the Chinese versus the non-Chinese?AW: Half of them are Western people in Shanghai,
and half of them are Chinese. And the Westernpeople tend to understand quicker and better
my concepts, they understand theseconceptual designs. And Chinese people,
they find it fascinating that it’s sosculptural, something they don't understand,
(10:45):
and I always encourage them to try them out.And then they realise that it's actually
very beautiful, it fits them. And so it's veryencouraging because it's special and unique. Yeah.
Can you generalise in terms of what a Chinese customer tends to like more than a non-Chinese
customer? Or is it hard to generalise like that?AW: So OK, there are two styles that are very
(11:08):
prominent in my work. One is architecturalstyle, like very rational, structural,
and linear, and geometrical; and the otherone is nature. My mom is a biologist,
so I always grew up in nature, I love nature.So I work a lot with nature, like leaves,
seeds, all these organic shapes. So the Westernpeople, they like a lot of architectural styles
(11:33):
and linear styles. But Chinese people, unlessthey are architects or designers, they usually
tend to like, more the nature style.OF: That’s interesting. And so,
who is the real Angie then, you know,in terms of like, what makes you tick?
AW (11:49):
Yeah, so I'm a very nervous person. And I like to be alone a lot. This is something that most
people would not expect from me. I love solitude,I need a lot of time alone. When I’m alone I feel
good. But when I am with people, I come alive,and I can be very outgoing and passionate. I
(12:14):
think this is also part of me, it’s… Yeah…OF: Yeah, I think that's where we're quite
similar, because people would see me as veryoutgoing. I mean, look, I'm hosting a podcast,
for God's sake. But I think I'm the same,like, even if I have a party at my house,
I will usually go into my room and close the doorfor 10 minutes, and then come out afterwards.
(12:34):
Yeah, I need that balance in life, the time alone. And the time when I'm with people. Yeah,
I always get too excited when I’m with people. AndI think when I'm with people, my Latin side comes
out. Like, definitely, people can feel that.OF: That's interesting. And then when you're
working, is it the more kind of introvert side?AW: Yes, I like to work alone. And I think that's
(13:00):
more the Canadian or the Taiwanese side. I shutdown, and I like to immerse in my own world.
OF (13:06):
So where do you think the future will be for you? Do you think you'll stay in Shanghai,
how long have you been here now for?AW: If I tell you that you can guess my age,
but I don't care. I have been here for 14years. And I will always keep my headquarters
in Shanghai. It’s where I studied, and I lovewhat has been going on. But definitely I am
(13:28):
going to be going back and forth. And ideally,moving to Europe first. European people really
understand my work, like, really quickly.Yeah, and I don't worry about the market.
And so obviously, you've been very successful. But I want to ask you, where have been the biggest
difficulties or even the biggest failures?AW: I wouldn't call myself successful. I’m
(13:52):
doing better every year, so this is really good.It's very encouraging and I’m very grateful
to those who believe in me. And the difficultpart has always been the business. I was always
trained as an artist and a designer. I've neverdealt with business, I'm very bad with numbers.
So all these legal things and paperwork drive mecrazy. You know, for me, the only thing I knew is
(14:17):
going to markets - like, in Argentina and Canada,you have these weekend markets, designer markets,
and you sell your work, like a gypsy - that’s whatI know to do. And now my brand is more than that.
Right. OK well, thank you so much, Angie, it was great to have you here. That's the end of our
first part, and now we'll go on to Part 2.AW: OK, great, thank you.
(14:42):
[Part 2]OF: Right,
so the next part is, I asked you 10 questions.So let's go straight into it. Question 1:
What is your favourite China related fact?AW: OK, so the first time I heard this fact,
I was fascinating and shocked. Shanghaiitself is around 26 million people. The
entire Taiwan is no more than 23 millionpeople. And this just blew my mind.
(15:05):
And I think that's just the official number, there probably are some others too, right?
AW (15:09):
Yes. OF
have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?AW: Actually, I do. And I still cannot find
the right English term for that. So, when I grewup my mom was a teacher, professor, right? So she
always cared about inner beauty. She was alwaystrying to use this word called 气质 [qìzhí]. If you
separate the word, it means ‘the qualityof your 气 [qì]’. It's like inner beauty,
(15:34):
grace and elegance. And it's something - my momwould say - something you cannot buy, you have
to nurture it, you have to build it, and it hasto be from childhood. So she always says like,
if you are someone with good 气质 [qìzhí],you will always benefit from that. Like,
if it's outer beauty, it’s something thatdoesn't last. So she always wanted us to
build this inner beauty (15:55):
气质 [qìzhí]. OF
favourite destination within China?AW: Definitely Yunnan. I was designing museums
before - OK, that's what I was doing before mybrand, I was a museum designer - we built museums
around the world (16:11):
Science and Technology Museums, Childrens Museums… and we built an Agricultural
Museum in Yunnan. So I've been there, for threeyears, going back and forth. It’s so biodiverse.
And they are 26 minorities in Yunnan itself.And this is so beautiful. These are native,
local people, and they still make a lot of thingsby hand. They create their own tools. And the
(16:37):
jewellery, the accessories they make them by hand.Their clothes…. This is so beautiful, I mean, it’s
the most exotic thing about China.OF: And where was the museum?
AW (16:48):
The museum is in 曲靖 [Qūjìng], it’s like two hours away from 昆明 [Kūnmíng]. But we
had the chance to travel everywhere in Yunnanwith the government, with the client, so I had
a chance to see the beauty Yunnan. It’s amazing.OF: You’re making me very jealous. I've only ever
done a stopover in 昆明 [Kūnmíng]. I really want togo down, but you really have to have a good, like,
(17:11):
week to go to all the places.AW: Yes.
OF (17:13):
And even then, just the main places. There's so many other small places right?
AW (17:16):
Yes. OF
and keep going. If you left China, what would youmiss the most, and what would you miss the least?
I would miss the convenience, of all these apps like Taobao, 饿了么 [Èleme], 滴滴 [Dīdī],
like, really, there's no place in the world likeShanghai. And what I would miss the least is the
(17:36):
noise. I don't like noise in general, so… Yeah.OF: Is there anything that still
surprises you about life in China?AW: Yeah, so recently, I had a really
bad experience. Like, I have this studio thatI built, my jewellery studio, in Jing’An Villa,
close to 静安 [Jìng'ān]. And for five years,everything was great, I even just renewed the
(18:02):
contract with them. And then out of the blue whenI was in Italy doing my exhibition in April, the
landlord just called me and told me he sold thebuilding. So he wanted me out in one month. And
he didn't honour the contract. For three years,he was telling me “Oh, we trust each other, I like
you so much.” So I couldn't do anything about it.OF: Ach. Just when you think you understand how
(18:24):
things work, everything's running smoothly,there’s always going to be something that
comes unexpectedAW: Of course.
OF (18:28):
What is your favourite place to go out, to eat, to drink or hang out?
AW (18:32):
I still go to Malabar, I love the Spanish food there. And I go to Barbarian, and Bar Centrale,
Fat Cow, so these are the few places I go often.OF: Would you be able to choose one favourite?
I really like Malabar, because of the Spanish environment.
OF (18:50):
Do you know, I haven't been there. That's the one place you said that I haven't been.
AW (18:53):
The food is really good. And it's not overpriced. Really good portions,
it’s not like really tiny tapas.So I will take you there next time.
OF (19:02):
That's a date. What is the best or worst purchase you've made in China?
AW (19:07):
I have to say the best. It's amazing. You know how humid is Shanghai right? So I bought this
machine - I discovered it by accident on Taobao- and it's actually a blower that connects to a
blanket, like a double-layer blanket with holeson it. So when you blow for one hour - you put
this blanket between your bed and your mattressand your duvet- and if you blow it for one hour,
(19:32):
it will eliminate all the humidity and dustmites. Because I’m allergic to all kinds of
mites. So the bed would become fluffy, superdry, super comfy. So I've been using that
for the last eight years. It’s really reallycool, everyone should have that in Shanghai.
OF (19:49):
Wow. What is your favourite WeChat sticker? AW
two months, depending what I add, new ones. Butrecently it has been this reindeer that’s rolling,
like, on his back, on waves. And he’s just rollingon this, looking super happy and comfortable.
(20:12):
That's cool because you actually do a lot of water sports, right?
AW (20:15):
Yeah, I actually do. I do windsurfing and kitesurfing. And this little reindeer
just remind me of my happy time by the beach.OF: And that’s not far from Shanghai, right?
No, it’s only one hour exactly from Jing’An Temple. And it's a private club, but anyone can
join. you can do SUP, canoe, windsurfing,sailing, and wakeboarding. It’s really cool,
(20:41):
if anyone wants information, you can ask me.OF: That's great. Next question,
what is your go-to song to sing at KTV?AW: So… ‘Don't Cry for Me, Argentina’.
OF (20:50):
Oh you’re kidding! AW
OK, so that loops back to our very first point on this podcast. So, that's because you're
Argentinian, or at least one eighth Argentinian?AW: No but also because the song falls into my
voice range. And I can do that high pitchreally nicely. But usually after that song,
(21:10):
I cannot sing anymore. But I love it.And also people know I’m from Argentina,
so they love to hear me singing thissong. That's how I impress people. And
I just need that one song, then I'm done.OF: And finally, what other China-related
sources of information do you use?AW: To be honest, like, I've been so
busy the last five years with this brand, Idon't follow news so much anymore. So I have
(21:34):
to tell you that my best resource for news is myassistant. She loves news. And she's reading all
kinds of news all the time. So she's the one whoalways, like, keeps me updated on what's going on
with the world, with China, and everything. Yeah.OF: Oh that's great. Wow, that's a really useful
resource to have, she is indispensable obviously.AW: For sure.
(21:54):
Well, thank you so much Angie, that was really interesting. The last question
I ask everyone on this podcast is,out of everyone you know in China,
who would you recommend that I interview next?AW: So you should interview Katherine. She's
a healer. She's from Peru. And she doesworkshops on cleansing. It's really good
(22:16):
for people who are living in Shanghai, we arealways in a very stressful lifestyle. Yeah.
Wow. I've never met a healer like that before. I'm looking forward to meeting her.
Thank you very much.AW: Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So when Angie mentioned her
surprise at the fact that the official populationof Shanghai is a few million larger than the
(22:37):
population of Taiwan, careful listeners outthere might have remembered that Vy from FitFam
in Episode 8 said the exact same thing aboutthe population of Australia. So I looked it up,
and yes, Taiwan's population is 23.6 millionand Australia's is 23.8. So there you have it,
one city, one island and one continent allwith the same population, more or less.
(22:58):
I related very strongly to Angie's definitionof home, so I really liked that meaning behind
the jewellery collection that she made aroundthis concept. Please check out the photos on
social media. We're at @mosaicofchina_ onInstagram or @mosaicofchina on Facebook.
Or you can add me on WeChat using my ID: mosaicofchina, and I'll add you there myself. (23:11):
undefined
Alongside that collection, the second image Iposted is some of her work with the unpolished
rough diamonds. And the final image was acomparison between the architectural style
preferred by Western customers, versusthe organic and natural style favoured
by the Chinese customers. I lookedat Angie's favourite word 气质 [qìzhí],
(23:35):
and the translation I got was ‘temperament'or ‘disposition’. But there's something about
Angie's direct translation - ‘the qualityof your 气 [qì]’ - which just seemed to make
more sense to me. If anyone out there has abetter translation, then please let me know. I
also uploaded a map I found of the distributionand population of ethnic minorities in Yunnan,
which is fascinating since it's the most diverseprovince in China, in terms of ethnic mix. Other
(24:01):
than that, there is a photo of Angie withher object, the callipers; there's a selfie,
with me looking totally demented, I've got tosay, but Angie looks lovely; there's a photo
of her favourite restaurant Malabar; there isan image of the bed humidifier, which was the
best purchase in humid Shanghai; and of course herfavourite WeChat sticker, the swimming reindeer.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, extraediting support from Milo de Prieto,
(24:25):
artwork by Denny Newell, and China supportfrom Alston Gong. I'll see you next week.
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