October 14, 2019 • 31 mins
“Keep it Quiet” is the name of the semi-public bar at Yongfoo Elite, the private members club located in the diplomatic quarter of Shanghai. So I’m especially grateful that its GM, Lori Li, broke her own rules to speak to me in this week’s episode. As well as spilling the beans on the club itself, Lori and I talk about Shanghai’s status as a world centre of style and fashion, and she walks us through the changing interpretation of what luxury means in China. You may think you know how Chinese people view luxury, but like everything in China, these trends have a habit of changing very quickly. So I hope that this interview helps to keep you updated on the latest interpretation. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 02:30 - Part 1 19:55 - Part 2 27:59 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Trailer]LL: Yeah, there is a panda.
(00:04):
He destroyed everything in the office.OF: Oh, I love this one.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
So we've reached Episode 10 today.Double figures deserves a celebration,
and I've decided that this means taking a veryshort break. It's not the end of the Season by
(00:29):
any means, I'll be back with the next batch ofEpisodes 11-20 before you know it. But I just
wanted to avoid information overload for thoseof you who are listening to this in real time,
and to allow those who aren’tto have a chance to catch up.
This week's episode is with Lori Li. Asyou'll hear us mention at the very start
of our conversation, Lori is the General Managerof YongFoo Elite, which is a private member's club
(00:53):
here in Shanghai. But more than that, it housesa Michelin 2-star restaurant, it has been voted
the best music venue in Shanghai by Time Out,and it's something of a secret calling-card of
Shanghai. I mention ‘secret’ because it's stilla place that's shrouded in a little mystery. They
don’t splash a lot of things about it online.I lived around the corner from it for about 18
(01:14):
months before I even heard about it. And infact, the name of their semi-public bar is
‘Keep It Quiet'. So I'm very grateful to Lorifor breaking her own rules in this interview.
This means it's another good excuse for you tocheck out the photos that accompany the podcast
on social media. In this episode, you'll seethe antique wine glass that Lori brought to
(01:34):
the interview; you'll see photos of the club,which Lori and her team kindly shared with me;
and many other images that are alsorelevant to our conversation. You can
find us on Instagram at @mosaicofchina_ andFacebook at @mosaicofchina. And for WeChat,
please add me on ID (01:47):
mosaicofchina, and I'll add you to the group.
As well as spilling the beans on the clubitself, Lori and I talk about Shanghai’s
status as one of the world's centres of style andpassion. And she walks us through the changing
interpretation of what luxury means in China,particularly over the last 20 years. You may
think you have an idea about how Chinese peopleview luxury, but like everything else in China,
(02:10):
these trends have a habit of changing over afew years what might take an entire generation
elsewhere. So I hope that this interview helps tokeep you updated on the latest interpretation. And
a final quick heads up, you'll notice immediatelythat there were sound issues in the studio when
we did this recording. Very sorry about that, Ihope you'll still enjoying what Lori had to say.
[Part 1]OF: I'm here with Lori Li,
(02:33):
and Lori you are the General Manager of YongFooElite, which is a private club here in Shanghai.
LL (02:39):
Yes. OF
to go into your experiences there. But beforewe do, the first question I'd like to ask is,
what is the object that you have brought today?LL: That is an ancient wine glass from China. It's
from more than 1,000 years ago. Before, in ancientChina, wine and food were related to ceremony. So
(03:08):
dinner is related to communication with god. Allfood ceremony is related to communication. For
communication to God, there are many parts. youknow, it's very - how to say - prestigious. And
(03:31):
you, can from the shape, feel this. Because it'svery tall. So it's full of the feeling of how you
respect god. In ancient China, God is nature.OF: And tell me, what is it made of? And
(03:54):
which part of China does it comefrom? Do you know the details?
That is a 汉 [Hàn] Dynasty wine glass. The colour is black, and there are eight
goddesses crafted into this ceramic. So whyit's black and white is that these are very
(04:19):
special colours in that time. Because at thattime, white and black are very serious colours.
Not everyone can use them. So this glasswas only for special ceremonies to god. Only
in the temple - to make some very importantstatement - can you use white and black. So
(04:42):
the colours make you feel very gorgeous.OF: And what does this symbolise for you,
in terms of what you're doing now in China?LL: Oh, because I’m in the hospitality and
F&B industry. So I want to introduce much moreculture, lifestyle behind that. So I want to
(05:09):
introduce Chinese traditional food culture andlifestyle to international people and to modern
society. Introducing the core value of that.OF: Well, let's go straight into that,
then. So why don't you tell usabout what the club actually is?
Ah, OK. Our club was built in the 1930s. It's used to be a private doctor's home, and after 1949
(05:42):
this house is belonged to the government, andit became different countries’ consulates. And
the last consulates was as the British consulateduring the 1980s, until 2001. And then after that,
we took over the place and were renovatingfor three years. And so the YongFoo club,
(06:04):
we opened in 2004, as a private membership club.OF: And what were the challenges of renovating
a building like that?LL: It's a very old building,
at that time. And the house actuallyhad collapsed a little bit. So that's
why the British consulate didn’t want to paymoney to renovate it, and they moved out. So
(06:29):
the house actually had very big problems. Sowe used stainless steel to make the structure
again. So we almost rebuilt the whole house, butusing older materials to make it still look old.
(06:50):
But actually, everything is a new building.OF: Wow and three years, it's such a long
time. Like, what was it that took so long?LL: Because the owner and designer of YongFoo
Elite, Mr. Wang, is a very artistic designer. Sohe wanted to achieve his own life’s dream in this
(07:20):
project. He used to be a very good fashiondesigner in the 1980s. He’s of the first
generation of fashion designers in China. So hewas famous for combining East and West - all the
(07:41):
design and cultural elements - into his projects.So he put all his life experience and energy into
this project, and failed thousands oftimes, and wasted a lot of investments.
(08:02):
So that's why the project lasted three years.OF: And when did you personally get involved?
I met Mr. Wang in 2005, and joined the company in the same year, I used to be a journalist,
and I wrote articles about culture. And I wasa columnist also, writing about lifestyle, book
(08:30):
reviews, movies, theatre, all kinds of things. Andthen I had an interview with 金星 [Jīn Xīng], who is
a contemporary dancer. So 金星 [Jīn Xīng] introducedme to Mr. Wang three days after our interview. So
(08:51):
that was a very very accidential meeting for us.OF: Great. And yeah, 金星 [Jīn Xīng] is a very
famous personality, I've heard a lot about her.LL: Oh, yeah, I think she's a legend.
OF (09:04):
Yes. So, you mentioned that you had a lot of different artistic pursuits,
you were a writer, you were a columnist. Is thatwhat drew you to this kind of creative project?
LL (09:17):
I think beauty, in some way, is related to all kinds of fields, no matter whether it is
literature, poetry, or design, or art. So I justthink YongFoo Elite is a lifestyle that presents
(09:43):
beauty. So that's why I indulge in it so much,as I think i can explore many more versions of
beauty, and how to represent it to more people.OF: Right, because what I know about the club,
is that it is very much about thecreative side. it's not so much about,
(10:08):
you have to have this much money, youhave to be a businessman. I sense the
focus on bringing creative people together.LL: You know, we could have done a closed
membership club in 2004. At that time, we hadtwo choices. One was to be totally closed,
only for members, for those very businesselite people to pay a high membership fee;
(10:33):
and the other choice was to be open to morepeople. And then at that time, we made the
decision to make it open to more people. Thereason is, Mr. Wang wanted to share his art pieces
to more people. So that's why we - in 2004, whenwe opened - we decided half would be membership,
(10:59):
half would be open to the public. It's almostlike a private museum. It includes thousands
of antiques in the collection, with fashionlanguage elements to represent them. And we want
to show people a different spiritual statement.So we gather many underground musicians - and also
(11:27):
video artists, sound artists, and dancers, allkinds of contemporary art forms - to mix together,
to present a different experience. Somany singers, musicians. So this kind
of crossover between public and private - and theinteraction between performers and audience - is
(11:56):
very intimate. I think that's a very uniqueexperience. I think it's all about Shanghai,
because many people say that YongFoo Elite isa kind of name-card of Shanghai. It's related
to Shanghai city culture. I think Shanghai is acity which combines old and new, East and West.
(12:19):
In Shanghai, we have a very interesting word it'scalled 时髦 [shímáo]. 时髦 [Shímáo] is not ‘fashion’;
it’s not ‘style’, it's a word between fashionand style. So ‘style’ is, you know, much more
like ‘classic.’ Or you can say style is muchmore stable, fixed. And fashion always changes,
(12:44):
it’s always, you know, very flexible. But 时髦[shímáo] actually is the core spirit - or one of
the core spirits - of Shanghai city culture.OF: And is that your definition of ‘élite'
because of course, your title is YongFoo Elite.And to me when I think of what the élite want,
you think of 100 bottles of champagne, youhave the best buildings, you have the most
(13:08):
expensive cars… But it's something more, right?LL: Of course. if élite was only related to money,
for us it's not enough. For us, the businessélite and intellectual élite should be combined
together to become one. So for us, élite meansthat you are always involved with this city,
(13:35):
you are always ‘in’. So that's notrelated to your physical statement, it’s
much more related to your spiritual statement.OF: So what has changed then? When when you talk
about 时髦 [shímáo], when you talk about the tastes,when you talk about the intellectuals of Shanghai,
how have things changed in the last 15 years?LL: In the first period during 2000-2010,
(14:02):
it was much more about how you show off whatyou have. So it was about watches, wine, cigars,
fashion. Chinese people wanted to learn a lotabout taste, so they can present it in some way.
(14:23):
So as that time, being trendy was like that,all the physical things. And after 2008 - the
year of the Olympic Games in Beijing - and 2010- the Expo in Shanghai - I think more people
realised that they want to find something fromthe inside, and not rely on the physical part.
(14:51):
So at that time the Chinese new élites became morefocused on philosophy, history… So at that time,
our club also had a lot of programmes about,like, how to make tea ceremony, how to make
(15:14):
incense ceremony; or the philosophy programme,how to teach the new élites to find themselves,
from the inside. And then after I think 2015,the third generation came. And they are younger,
they are born after 1985. And they are more likingindividual experiences. They're more focused on
(15:43):
creative content, like music, contemporaryart, and - how to say - independent travel.
So I think this gives evidence about the threedifferent generations, how their needs changed,
(16:09):
and also how society’s values changed.OF: That's fascinating. And I'm sure it's
probably similar to anywhere else, where you'vehad different definitions of what luxury means.
Yes. Now luxury’s identify is much more back to nature. Like family,
(16:29):
and close friends, and intimate moments.I think luxury has changed a lot in China.
OF (16:40):
You mentioned that you've had these changes, the three phases. When you look back over your
last 15 years, which which has been the hardestphase? Have you had a really challenging period?
LL (16:51):
In 2007 there was a financial crisis which influenced everywhere internationally, Asia and
Hong Kong. And 70% of customers, they justvanished in 2007. Yeah. At that time our GM,
(17:12):
who was a very brave lady, lead ourmarketing people to go to local companies,
one by one. So like, big companies like华为 [Huáwèi], 联通 [Liántōng], 宝钢 [Bǎogāng],
all these Chinese companies, after the meeting,became our new customers. So for one year we
(17:36):
struggled in this financial crisis. And after oneyear, 70% of our customers were Chinese people.
OF (17:45):
Interesting. And how does that compare with today?
LL (17:50):
Now we still, like, 60-70% Chinese people. But they became much younger.
Half of our customers were born in the1980s, 20% of them were born after 1990.
OF (18:04):
And to change direction completely, who have been the interesting guests that have
come to the club? I know you can't tell meall their secrets. But do you remember a
few special guests who have come to the club?LL: Yeah, we had a very special guest, which
(18:27):
was Karl Lagerfeld. Yeah, when he was the Directorof Chanel, he brought 200 guests from all over the
world to have a sit-down dinner at our club. Thatwas a gorgeous dinner. And what I remember is,
after all the other guests left, Karl wanderedaround in our garden alone at 1am. And he liked
(18:57):
talking to himself, or talking to nature. Thatwas a very magic moment in my memory. One of my
icons is Paul Smith. And I like his designsand spirit so much. And he arrived at seven
o'clock to having traditional Shanghai cuisineand dim sum. Then we wandered through the garden,
(19:26):
and saw the Peking Opera, which also I preparedfor him. So I think that's also a very unique
moment for the garden and the guest.OF: Well, I'm sure you have many stories,
but I won't get you to record them today. You cantell me after. Well, thanks again and let's move
(19:51):
on to the second part.LL: OK.
[Part 2]OF: So, question number 1,
what is your favourite China-related fact?LL: I like the stone inscriptions at tourist
sites. Because it's a very unique sight, seenonly in China. You can see so many stones,
(20:16):
and they have some words or some drawings onthe stone. And it's like, in every dynasty,
the people saw the same view - same mountain,same lake - but they have different feelings.
So all of them, they put their feelings on thewall, on the stone. So generation by generation,
(20:40):
you can tell the different people's feelings.Because it’s the same view, but all the people
have their individual opinion of that.OF: Do you have a favourite word
or phrase in Chinese?LL: Oh, as I mentioned,
I like 时髦 [shímáo]. 时髦 [Shímáo], actually the wordcomes from the 汉 [Hàn] Dynasty. Yeah, the meaning
(21:05):
is between style and fashion. One meaning is,it’s all about outstanding people. In the 汉 [Hàn]
Dynasty, the original meaning is ‘outstandingpeople’. The next meaning is about the people
who are ‘in’ in society. So I like this word,because it's really a city feeling like Shanghai.
(21:32):
And what's your favourite destination within China?
LL (21:34):
I like the small cities, small towns, we call them 五线城市 [wǔxiàn chéngshì]. So when
you go to a very far place, or like a smalltown, you feel it's so interesting, crazy,
and people have their own local culture.OF: And it's funny because the cities are
(21:59):
becoming more generic, but it's in thesmall towns outside the cities that you
feel the real different flavour, right?LL: Yeah, it's all about adventure,
and different culture.OF: And if I was to press you,
and for you to choose just one, is there'sone that jumps to mind, that's your favourite?
My latest visit was to a small town besides a lake in 广西 [Guǎngxī]. And the people,
(22:31):
they don't speak Mandarin, they speak theirlocal language which I can't understand. But
they have beautiful a lake, beautifultrees. And I communicated with them,
not using language. We communicated in other ways.OF: If you left China, what would you miss the
(22:52):
most, and what would you miss the least?LL: I would miss Chinese food, and the
atmosphere when you have Chinesefood. It’s all about, you know,
friends gathering and everything mixedup. And yeah, I have a Chinese stomach.
OF (23:12):
It's not actually so much about the food. It's about the whole ritual around the food.
LL (23:17):
Yes. OF
what would you miss the least?LL: When I was in the U.S. or Europe,
I don't miss takeaway food. Even though that isso convenient in China - we can order at 2am with
all kinds of 外卖 [wàimài] - when I was abroad, Ididn't miss that. I think because you can make
(23:45):
it by yourself, also. It’s not so necessary,and also it destroys the environment so much.
OF (23:54):
Is there anything that still surprises you about life in China?
LL (23:58):
Every day I’m surprised by people's dynamic, especially Chinese people’a ability to absorb
the information, change the information, andthen use the information. I'm surprised by the
(24:21):
people’s ability to to use the information.OF: What is your favourite place to eat,
drink or hang out?LL: My favourite place is one we
call ‘David Lynch’s 麻辣烫 [Málàtàng]’.OF: Oh right.
Yeah, it's 麻辣烫 [Málàtàng], open very late into the morning,
(24:42):
and the atmosphere is really underground. It’slike David Lynch’s movies. All the decoration,
the people inside, and all the music playedthere, is really unusual from the daily life.
OF (25:01):
OK, I'm going! What is the best or worst recent purchase you have made in China?
LL (25:09):
I can't remember. Because I tell myself not to purchase a lot. And if I could,
I wish I could purchase less, or purchasingmuch more environmentally friendly things.
OF (25:30):
Maybe this is what you were talking about, how maybe 10 years ago, you were interested in buying
things. But now, what’s the reason, right?LL: Yeah.
What's your favourite WeChat sticker? LL
everything in the office.OF: Oh, I love this one. What
(25:52):
is your go-to song to sing at KTV?LL: I think… Because sometimes I go
with Chinese friends, sometimes I go withWestern friends, I'd have to pick a song,
which both groups can understand. SoI will pick ‘Yesterday Once More’.
So everyone can sing together. And itused to be a very sad song. But when 10
(26:19):
people sing it together, it’s very joyful.OF: That's good. OK, and the last question,
what other China-related media orinformation sources do you rely on?
LL (26:32):
My personal way is to go abroad often, if you have this ability. The other way is,
we have very good documentary movies,or short movies, about Chinese society.
So that's another way to know China.OF: Well said. Thank you, Lori. Well,
(26:56):
the final question that I have to ask you is,if I was to ask you for the recommendation
of anyone else who you know in China, whowould you recommend that I speak to next?
I would think of one of my girlfriends called Wang Fang first. She’s an architect.
And her company is in charge of many importantprojects in the main city. And I think she
(27:29):
can provide evidence for the Chinese civilisationand urbanisation process. So it's related to
everyone. And she can give us a view througharchitecture about how the city has grown up.
OF (27:47):
Oh, she sounds amazing. Well, thanks so much, I look forward to meeting her.
LL (27:52):
Yeah. OF
time today. It was such a pleasure.LL: My pleasure too.
[Outro]OF: Well, thank you, thank you, thank you again to
Lori. You can hear that I tried my best to winkleout some gossip from her. We did talk off-mic
after the interview, and she confirmed someof the rumours that I've heard about Hollywood
types and whatnot at the club. But otherwise, sheremained mostly tight-lipped. She did share a few
(28:16):
extra images of some of the elaborate eventsand parties at the venue, so I've posted these
online. But then what kind of host would she beif she talked publicly about the rest? I hope you
enjoyed her definition about the three stagesof luxury. And indeed, the fourth stage now,
where going back to nature, and spending intimatetime with close friends and family is the new
(28:37):
luxury. A quick amen to that. Maybe this ispartly what inspired me to take a little time off,
and not just the stack of interviews that arepiling up on my hard disk waiting to be edited.
A quick extra comment on the answer that Lorigave to the question about what she would
miss if she left China, which she said was theatmosphere around eating Chinese food. This was
an interesting point, actually, because in China,it's very common - or at least it's a special
(29:01):
thing to do - for groups of family and friends toenjoy a private dining area, where you can still
be raucous if you want, but you do so in a moreclosed and intimate setting. And I think the same
is the case for Korea and Japan also. But in theWest, there's much more of a culture of enjoying
open dining. I’m thinking of the Italian piazza,where being around other people in public is much
(29:23):
more part of the enjoyment of dining out. And ofcourse, all of that is a gross generalisation,
there are plenty of exceptions on both sides.But I think it's true that while you can find
great Chinese food all across the world, it'snot as easy to replicate that kind of atmosphere.
So onto the images. This week I posted the Chineseword 时髦 [shímáo], that's the word that describes
(29:43):
something between ‘fashion’ and ‘style’. I posteda photo of the last place in the countryside that
Lori had been to, it's 大新 [Dàxīn] county in 广西[Guǎngxī] Province. The word she used to describe
places like this is 五线城市 [wǔxiàn chéngshì]. Thismeans 5th Tier Cities. If you're anything like me,
you'll have no idea about how cities areclassified in your country, or how big they are,
(30:06):
or how they compare with each other. But here inChina, there is this unofficial list of cities,
where they're classified from Tier 1 allthe way down to Tier 5. Just search online
for the Chinese City Tier System, and youcan find out a whole bunch more. As well
as the photos of the grounds of YongFoo Elite,there's also a photo of the creator, Mr.Wang,
(30:26):
and also of 金星 [Jīn Xīng], the lady whooriginally introduced Lori to Mr. Wang.
We mentioned in our discussion that 金星 [Jīn Xīng]is something of a legend in China. This is true,
she is a fascinating character in her own right.She started her career in the Chinese military,
then she had gender reassignment surgeryin the 90s, and ultimately went on to have
a very successful career in dance and as aTV personality. And her name 金星 [Jīn Xīng]
(30:51):
means ‘Venus’. And finally, there'sLori's favourite WeChat sticker,
which was the panda destroying the office. This ispart of a series, I've got a nice stash of angry
panda WeChat stickers. So just make me angryon WeChat and I'll send them to you, no doubt.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs; editing isby Milo de Prieto; artwork by Denny Newell;
(31:13):
and China technical support from Alston Gong.If you've made it here to the end of Episode 10,
and you haven't yet reached out to me, thenplease use this as a nudge to get in touch
and say hello. I would love to hear from you,and I'll be back with Episode 11 very soon.
[Trailer]LL: Yeah, there is a panda.
(00:04):
He destroyed everything in the office.OF: Oh, I love this one.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
So we've reached Episode 10 today.Double figures deserves a celebration,
and I've decided that this means taking a veryshort break. It's not the end of the Season by
(00:29):
any means, I'll be back with the next batch ofEpisodes 11-20 before you know it. But I just
wanted to avoid information overload for thoseof you who are listening to this in real time,
and to allow those who aren’tto have a chance to catch up.
This week's episode is with Lori Li. Asyou'll hear us mention at the very start
of our conversation, Lori is the General Managerof YongFoo Elite, which is a private member's club
(00:53):
here in Shanghai. But more than that, it housesa Michelin 2-star restaurant, it has been voted
the best music venue in Shanghai by Time Out,and it's something of a secret calling-card of
Shanghai. I mention ‘secret’ because it's stilla place that's shrouded in a little mystery. They
don’t splash a lot of things about it online.I lived around the corner from it for about 18
(01:14):
months before I even heard about it. And infact, the name of their semi-public bar is
‘Keep It Quiet'. So I'm very grateful to Lorifor breaking her own rules in this interview.
This means it's another good excuse for you tocheck out the photos that accompany the podcast
on social media. In this episode, you'll seethe antique wine glass that Lori brought to
(01:34):
the interview; you'll see photos of the club,which Lori and her team kindly shared with me;
and many other images that are alsorelevant to our conversation. You can
find us on Instagram at @mosaicofchina_ andFacebook at @mosaicofchina. And for WeChat,
please add me on ID (01:47):
mosaicofchina, and I'll add you to the group.
As well as spilling the beans on the clubitself, Lori and I talk about Shanghai’s
status as one of the world's centres of style andpassion. And she walks us through the changing
interpretation of what luxury means in China,particularly over the last 20 years. You may
think you have an idea about how Chinese peopleview luxury, but like everything else in China,
(02:10):
these trends have a habit of changing over afew years what might take an entire generation
elsewhere. So I hope that this interview helps tokeep you updated on the latest interpretation. And
a final quick heads up, you'll notice immediatelythat there were sound issues in the studio when
we did this recording. Very sorry about that, Ihope you'll still enjoying what Lori had to say.
[Part 1]OF: I'm here with Lori Li,
(02:33):
and Lori you are the General Manager of YongFooElite, which is a private club here in Shanghai.
LL (02:39):
Yes. OF
to go into your experiences there. But beforewe do, the first question I'd like to ask is,
what is the object that you have brought today?LL: That is an ancient wine glass from China. It's
from more than 1,000 years ago. Before, in ancientChina, wine and food were related to ceremony. So
(03:08):
dinner is related to communication with god. Allfood ceremony is related to communication. For
communication to God, there are many parts. youknow, it's very - how to say - prestigious. And
(03:31):
you, can from the shape, feel this. Because it'svery tall. So it's full of the feeling of how you
respect god. In ancient China, God is nature.OF: And tell me, what is it made of? And
(03:54):
which part of China does it comefrom? Do you know the details?
That is a 汉 [Hàn] Dynasty wine glass. The colour is black, and there are eight
goddesses crafted into this ceramic. So whyit's black and white is that these are very
(04:19):
special colours in that time. Because at thattime, white and black are very serious colours.
Not everyone can use them. So this glasswas only for special ceremonies to god. Only
in the temple - to make some very importantstatement - can you use white and black. So
(04:42):
the colours make you feel very gorgeous.OF: And what does this symbolise for you,
in terms of what you're doing now in China?LL: Oh, because I’m in the hospitality and
F&B industry. So I want to introduce much moreculture, lifestyle behind that. So I want to
(05:09):
introduce Chinese traditional food culture andlifestyle to international people and to modern
society. Introducing the core value of that.OF: Well, let's go straight into that,
then. So why don't you tell usabout what the club actually is?
Ah, OK. Our club was built in the 1930s. It's used to be a private doctor's home, and after 1949
(05:42):
this house is belonged to the government, andit became different countries’ consulates. And
the last consulates was as the British consulateduring the 1980s, until 2001. And then after that,
we took over the place and were renovatingfor three years. And so the YongFoo club,
(06:04):
we opened in 2004, as a private membership club.OF: And what were the challenges of renovating
a building like that?LL: It's a very old building,
at that time. And the house actuallyhad collapsed a little bit. So that's
why the British consulate didn’t want to paymoney to renovate it, and they moved out. So
(06:29):
the house actually had very big problems. Sowe used stainless steel to make the structure
again. So we almost rebuilt the whole house, butusing older materials to make it still look old.
(06:50):
But actually, everything is a new building.OF: Wow and three years, it's such a long
time. Like, what was it that took so long?LL: Because the owner and designer of YongFoo
Elite, Mr. Wang, is a very artistic designer. Sohe wanted to achieve his own life’s dream in this
(07:20):
project. He used to be a very good fashiondesigner in the 1980s. He’s of the first
generation of fashion designers in China. So hewas famous for combining East and West - all the
(07:41):
design and cultural elements - into his projects.So he put all his life experience and energy into
this project, and failed thousands oftimes, and wasted a lot of investments.
(08:02):
So that's why the project lasted three years.OF: And when did you personally get involved?
I met Mr. Wang in 2005, and joined the company in the same year, I used to be a journalist,
and I wrote articles about culture. And I wasa columnist also, writing about lifestyle, book
(08:30):
reviews, movies, theatre, all kinds of things. Andthen I had an interview with 金星 [Jīn Xīng], who is
a contemporary dancer. So 金星 [Jīn Xīng] introducedme to Mr. Wang three days after our interview. So
(08:51):
that was a very very accidential meeting for us.OF: Great. And yeah, 金星 [Jīn Xīng] is a very
famous personality, I've heard a lot about her.LL: Oh, yeah, I think she's a legend.
OF (09:04):
Yes. So, you mentioned that you had a lot of different artistic pursuits,
you were a writer, you were a columnist. Is thatwhat drew you to this kind of creative project?
LL (09:17):
I think beauty, in some way, is related to all kinds of fields, no matter whether it is
literature, poetry, or design, or art. So I justthink YongFoo Elite is a lifestyle that presents
(09:43):
beauty. So that's why I indulge in it so much,as I think i can explore many more versions of
beauty, and how to represent it to more people.OF: Right, because what I know about the club,
is that it is very much about thecreative side. it's not so much about,
(10:08):
you have to have this much money, youhave to be a businessman. I sense the
focus on bringing creative people together.LL: You know, we could have done a closed
membership club in 2004. At that time, we hadtwo choices. One was to be totally closed,
only for members, for those very businesselite people to pay a high membership fee;
(10:33):
and the other choice was to be open to morepeople. And then at that time, we made the
decision to make it open to more people. Thereason is, Mr. Wang wanted to share his art pieces
to more people. So that's why we - in 2004, whenwe opened - we decided half would be membership,
(10:59):
half would be open to the public. It's almostlike a private museum. It includes thousands
of antiques in the collection, with fashionlanguage elements to represent them. And we want
to show people a different spiritual statement.So we gather many underground musicians - and also
(11:27):
video artists, sound artists, and dancers, allkinds of contemporary art forms - to mix together,
to present a different experience. Somany singers, musicians. So this kind
of crossover between public and private - and theinteraction between performers and audience - is
(11:56):
very intimate. I think that's a very uniqueexperience. I think it's all about Shanghai,
because many people say that YongFoo Elite isa kind of name-card of Shanghai. It's related
to Shanghai city culture. I think Shanghai is acity which combines old and new, East and West.
(12:19):
In Shanghai, we have a very interesting word it'scalled 时髦 [shímáo]. 时髦 [Shímáo] is not ‘fashion’;
it’s not ‘style’, it's a word between fashionand style. So ‘style’ is, you know, much more
like ‘classic.’ Or you can say style is muchmore stable, fixed. And fashion always changes,
(12:44):
it’s always, you know, very flexible. But 时髦[shímáo] actually is the core spirit - or one of
the core spirits - of Shanghai city culture.OF: And is that your definition of ‘élite'
because of course, your title is YongFoo Elite.And to me when I think of what the élite want,
you think of 100 bottles of champagne, youhave the best buildings, you have the most
(13:08):
expensive cars… But it's something more, right?LL: Of course. if élite was only related to money,
for us it's not enough. For us, the businessélite and intellectual élite should be combined
together to become one. So for us, élite meansthat you are always involved with this city,
(13:35):
you are always ‘in’. So that's notrelated to your physical statement, it’s
much more related to your spiritual statement.OF: So what has changed then? When when you talk
about 时髦 [shímáo], when you talk about the tastes,when you talk about the intellectuals of Shanghai,
how have things changed in the last 15 years?LL: In the first period during 2000-2010,
(14:02):
it was much more about how you show off whatyou have. So it was about watches, wine, cigars,
fashion. Chinese people wanted to learn a lotabout taste, so they can present it in some way.
(14:23):
So as that time, being trendy was like that,all the physical things. And after 2008 - the
year of the Olympic Games in Beijing - and 2010- the Expo in Shanghai - I think more people
realised that they want to find something fromthe inside, and not rely on the physical part.
(14:51):
So at that time the Chinese new élites became morefocused on philosophy, history… So at that time,
our club also had a lot of programmes about,like, how to make tea ceremony, how to make
(15:14):
incense ceremony; or the philosophy programme,how to teach the new élites to find themselves,
from the inside. And then after I think 2015,the third generation came. And they are younger,
they are born after 1985. And they are more likingindividual experiences. They're more focused on
(15:43):
creative content, like music, contemporaryart, and - how to say - independent travel.
So I think this gives evidence about the threedifferent generations, how their needs changed,
(16:09):
and also how society’s values changed.OF: That's fascinating. And I'm sure it's
probably similar to anywhere else, where you'vehad different definitions of what luxury means.
Yes. Now luxury’s identify is much more back to nature. Like family,
(16:29):
and close friends, and intimate moments.I think luxury has changed a lot in China.
OF (16:40):
You mentioned that you've had these changes, the three phases. When you look back over your
last 15 years, which which has been the hardestphase? Have you had a really challenging period?
LL (16:51):
In 2007 there was a financial crisis which influenced everywhere internationally, Asia and
Hong Kong. And 70% of customers, they justvanished in 2007. Yeah. At that time our GM,
(17:12):
who was a very brave lady, lead ourmarketing people to go to local companies,
one by one. So like, big companies like华为 [Huáwèi], 联通 [Liántōng], 宝钢 [Bǎogāng],
all these Chinese companies, after the meeting,became our new customers. So for one year we
(17:36):
struggled in this financial crisis. And after oneyear, 70% of our customers were Chinese people.
OF (17:45):
Interesting. And how does that compare with today?
LL (17:50):
Now we still, like, 60-70% Chinese people. But they became much younger.
Half of our customers were born in the1980s, 20% of them were born after 1990.
OF (18:04):
And to change direction completely, who have been the interesting guests that have
come to the club? I know you can't tell meall their secrets. But do you remember a
few special guests who have come to the club?LL: Yeah, we had a very special guest, which
(18:27):
was Karl Lagerfeld. Yeah, when he was the Directorof Chanel, he brought 200 guests from all over the
world to have a sit-down dinner at our club. Thatwas a gorgeous dinner. And what I remember is,
after all the other guests left, Karl wanderedaround in our garden alone at 1am. And he liked
(18:57):
talking to himself, or talking to nature. Thatwas a very magic moment in my memory. One of my
icons is Paul Smith. And I like his designsand spirit so much. And he arrived at seven
o'clock to having traditional Shanghai cuisineand dim sum. Then we wandered through the garden,
(19:26):
and saw the Peking Opera, which also I preparedfor him. So I think that's also a very unique
moment for the garden and the guest.OF: Well, I'm sure you have many stories,
but I won't get you to record them today. You cantell me after. Well, thanks again and let's move
(19:51):
on to the second part.LL: OK.
[Part 2]OF: So, question number 1,
what is your favourite China-related fact?LL: I like the stone inscriptions at tourist
sites. Because it's a very unique sight, seenonly in China. You can see so many stones,
(20:16):
and they have some words or some drawings onthe stone. And it's like, in every dynasty,
the people saw the same view - same mountain,same lake - but they have different feelings.
So all of them, they put their feelings on thewall, on the stone. So generation by generation,
(20:40):
you can tell the different people's feelings.Because it’s the same view, but all the people
have their individual opinion of that.OF: Do you have a favourite word
or phrase in Chinese?LL: Oh, as I mentioned,
I like 时髦 [shímáo]. 时髦 [Shímáo], actually the wordcomes from the 汉 [Hàn] Dynasty. Yeah, the meaning
(21:05):
is between style and fashion. One meaning is,it’s all about outstanding people. In the 汉 [Hàn]
Dynasty, the original meaning is ‘outstandingpeople’. The next meaning is about the people
who are ‘in’ in society. So I like this word,because it's really a city feeling like Shanghai.
(21:32):
And what's your favourite destination within China?
LL (21:34):
I like the small cities, small towns, we call them 五线城市 [wǔxiàn chéngshì]. So when
you go to a very far place, or like a smalltown, you feel it's so interesting, crazy,
and people have their own local culture.OF: And it's funny because the cities are
(21:59):
becoming more generic, but it's in thesmall towns outside the cities that you
feel the real different flavour, right?LL: Yeah, it's all about adventure,
and different culture.OF: And if I was to press you,
and for you to choose just one, is there'sone that jumps to mind, that's your favourite?
My latest visit was to a small town besides a lake in 广西 [Guǎngxī]. And the people,
(22:31):
they don't speak Mandarin, they speak theirlocal language which I can't understand. But
they have beautiful a lake, beautifultrees. And I communicated with them,
not using language. We communicated in other ways.OF: If you left China, what would you miss the
(22:52):
most, and what would you miss the least?LL: I would miss Chinese food, and the
atmosphere when you have Chinesefood. It’s all about, you know,
friends gathering and everything mixedup. And yeah, I have a Chinese stomach.
OF (23:12):
It's not actually so much about the food. It's about the whole ritual around the food.
LL (23:17):
Yes. OF
what would you miss the least?LL: When I was in the U.S. or Europe,
I don't miss takeaway food. Even though that isso convenient in China - we can order at 2am with
all kinds of 外卖 [wàimài] - when I was abroad, Ididn't miss that. I think because you can make
(23:45):
it by yourself, also. It’s not so necessary,and also it destroys the environment so much.
OF (23:54):
Is there anything that still surprises you about life in China?
LL (23:58):
Every day I’m surprised by people's dynamic, especially Chinese people’a ability to absorb
the information, change the information, andthen use the information. I'm surprised by the
(24:21):
people’s ability to to use the information.OF: What is your favourite place to eat,
drink or hang out?LL: My favourite place is one we
call ‘David Lynch’s 麻辣烫 [Málàtàng]’.OF: Oh right.
Yeah, it's 麻辣烫 [Málàtàng], open very late into the morning,
(24:42):
and the atmosphere is really underground. It’slike David Lynch’s movies. All the decoration,
the people inside, and all the music playedthere, is really unusual from the daily life.
OF (25:01):
OK, I'm going! What is the best or worst recent purchase you have made in China?
LL (25:09):
I can't remember. Because I tell myself not to purchase a lot. And if I could,
I wish I could purchase less, or purchasingmuch more environmentally friendly things.
OF (25:30):
Maybe this is what you were talking about, how maybe 10 years ago, you were interested in buying
things. But now, what’s the reason, right?LL: Yeah.
What's your favourite WeChat sticker? LL
everything in the office.OF: Oh, I love this one. What
(25:52):
is your go-to song to sing at KTV?LL: I think… Because sometimes I go
with Chinese friends, sometimes I go withWestern friends, I'd have to pick a song,
which both groups can understand. SoI will pick ‘Yesterday Once More’.
So everyone can sing together. And itused to be a very sad song. But when 10
(26:19):
people sing it together, it’s very joyful.OF: That's good. OK, and the last question,
what other China-related media orinformation sources do you rely on?
LL (26:32):
My personal way is to go abroad often, if you have this ability. The other way is,
we have very good documentary movies,or short movies, about Chinese society.
So that's another way to know China.OF: Well said. Thank you, Lori. Well,
(26:56):
the final question that I have to ask you is,if I was to ask you for the recommendation
of anyone else who you know in China, whowould you recommend that I speak to next?
I would think of one of my girlfriends called Wang Fang first. She’s an architect.
And her company is in charge of many importantprojects in the main city. And I think she
(27:29):
can provide evidence for the Chinese civilisationand urbanisation process. So it's related to
everyone. And she can give us a view througharchitecture about how the city has grown up.
OF (27:47):
Oh, she sounds amazing. Well, thanks so much, I look forward to meeting her.
LL (27:52):
Yeah. OF
time today. It was such a pleasure.LL: My pleasure too.
[Outro]OF: Well, thank you, thank you, thank you again to
Lori. You can hear that I tried my best to winkleout some gossip from her. We did talk off-mic
after the interview, and she confirmed someof the rumours that I've heard about Hollywood
types and whatnot at the club. But otherwise, sheremained mostly tight-lipped. She did share a few
(28:16):
extra images of some of the elaborate eventsand parties at the venue, so I've posted these
online. But then what kind of host would she beif she talked publicly about the rest? I hope you
enjoyed her definition about the three stagesof luxury. And indeed, the fourth stage now,
where going back to nature, and spending intimatetime with close friends and family is the new
(28:37):
luxury. A quick amen to that. Maybe this ispartly what inspired me to take a little time off,
and not just the stack of interviews that arepiling up on my hard disk waiting to be edited.
A quick extra comment on the answer that Lorigave to the question about what she would
miss if she left China, which she said was theatmosphere around eating Chinese food. This was
an interesting point, actually, because in China,it's very common - or at least it's a special
(29:01):
thing to do - for groups of family and friends toenjoy a private dining area, where you can still
be raucous if you want, but you do so in a moreclosed and intimate setting. And I think the same
is the case for Korea and Japan also. But in theWest, there's much more of a culture of enjoying
open dining. I’m thinking of the Italian piazza,where being around other people in public is much
(29:23):
more part of the enjoyment of dining out. And ofcourse, all of that is a gross generalisation,
there are plenty of exceptions on both sides.But I think it's true that while you can find
great Chinese food all across the world, it'snot as easy to replicate that kind of atmosphere.
So onto the images. This week I posted the Chineseword 时髦 [shímáo], that's the word that describes
(29:43):
something between ‘fashion’ and ‘style’. I posteda photo of the last place in the countryside that
Lori had been to, it's 大新 [Dàxīn] county in 广西[Guǎngxī] Province. The word she used to describe
places like this is 五线城市 [wǔxiàn chéngshì]. Thismeans 5th Tier Cities. If you're anything like me,
you'll have no idea about how cities areclassified in your country, or how big they are,
(30:06):
or how they compare with each other. But here inChina, there is this unofficial list of cities,
where they're classified from Tier 1 allthe way down to Tier 5. Just search online
for the Chinese City Tier System, and youcan find out a whole bunch more. As well
as the photos of the grounds of YongFoo Elite,there's also a photo of the creator, Mr.Wang,
(30:26):
and also of 金星 [Jīn Xīng], the lady whooriginally introduced Lori to Mr. Wang.
We mentioned in our discussion that 金星 [Jīn Xīng]is something of a legend in China. This is true,
she is a fascinating character in her own right.She started her career in the Chinese military,
then she had gender reassignment surgeryin the 90s, and ultimately went on to have
a very successful career in dance and as aTV personality. And her name 金星 [Jīn Xīng]
(30:51):
means ‘Venus’. And finally, there'sLori's favourite WeChat sticker,
which was the panda destroying the office. This ispart of a series, I've got a nice stash of angry
panda WeChat stickers. So just make me angryon WeChat and I'll send them to you, no doubt.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs; editing isby Milo de Prieto; artwork by Denny Newell;
(31:13):
and China technical support from Alston Gong.If you've made it here to the end of Episode 10,
and you haven't yet reached out to me, thenplease use this as a nudge to get in touch
and say hello. I would love to hear from you,and I'll be back with Episode 11 very soon.
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