March 23, 2020 • 22 mins
Spending over a decade being a Tour Manager in China for international bands has taken this week's guest, Abe Deyo, to many destinations. In our discussion, we discuss some of his favourites, as well as his experiences on tour and his opinions on music tastes in the Chinese indie scene. I tried to elicit some nefarious stories of the rock and role lifestyle out of Abe, but I promise that our chat remained family friendly. Well.. for the most part. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 02:30 - Part 1 12:40 - Part 2 20:33 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
[Trailer]AD: Everything's
(00:03):
pretty pristine, except right on the middleof that bathmat was a large pile of s**t.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host Oscar Fuchs.
So before we get into today's episode,a quick thank you to everyone who was
(00:24):
inspired by last week's interview with Sabrinafrom the Shanghai International Dance Centre,
and who shared their favourite dancing stickerson WeChat. It was a nice little happy distraction
from what's going on in the world right now. Iuse the word distraction, because I'm coming to
terms with how much this has helped me over thelast seven weeks here in China. So I don't want
to dwell too much on the news of the Coronavirusin today's episode. But one thing I will mention
(00:48):
is that - what is it now? - it's March 242020, when this episode is being released,
and the situation in Shanghai is that there is anew app that you can download onto your phone that
runs a continuous contagion assessment on you.It's not mandatory, but for the last two weeks,
it's been increasingly difficult to enter certainbuildings without having this app and showing your
(01:10):
colour code. So if your colour code is green, itmeans that you are clear to enter the building.
But if it's orange or red, then that meansyou can't enter and you should consult medical
experts as soon as possible. What's going onhere is that maybe the app knows that you're
a confirmed COVID-19 patient, since it's linkedto your identity card. Or for the same reason,
(01:32):
maybe it knows that you've arrived from outsideof China and you shouldn't be out of quarantine
yet. Or maybe it traced you back to a metrocar, in which a fellow passenger later tested
positive for the virus. While being a dreamfor technology fans and epidemiologists,
this example reinforced my thoughts about howevery society dealing with this virus right now
is balancing the conflict between public safety onthe one hand, and individual privacy on the other.
(01:57):
You can see how China's reaction has definitelybeen heavily geared towards public safety.
On to today's episode, which is with thetour manager, Abe Deyo. There aren't many
live music shows happening right now, sothat's an obvious irony in releasing this
episode today. And maybe in another irony, Abealso mentions 武汉 [Wǔhàn] a couple of times in
(02:17):
our chat. It's funny how these days things likethat can make your ears prick up. It, of course,
didn't register as anything out of the ordinarywhen we recorded this chat several weeks ago.
[Part 1]OF: This is Abe Deyo,
the Directing Manager of Adapt, which isthe Emerging Artists arm of Live Nation.
(02:38):
Welcome to Mosaic of China. We startall these interviews by discussing an
object. So have you brought your object today?AD: I have, let me pull that out, It is a Contax
T3. So when I came here, I wasn't really intomusic, or the music industry at all. Photography,
that's kind of like my background. But being kindof a natural introvert, and someone who is very
(03:04):
interested in documentary photography, I alwayshad trouble meeting people to follow around,
and be that wallflower.OF: Mmm.
AD (03:13):
So through photography, I got into music, I started going to shows and taking pictures
there. Which was fun, but it still wasn'tdocumentary photography, which is what I love.
So I had this bright idea where I was like “OK…”- well, you know, this is back in 2005 - “Well,
there’s not many foreign bands coming. Maybeif I invite a band, put on a tour for them,
(03:37):
then I can just follow them around and takepictures”. Because they can't really say no,
if I'm the one who's organising everything.OF: Right.
Yeah, and little did I know, there's a little bit more into organising a tour than
just contacting somebody and saying “You want tocome over and do some shows?” But that's how I got
into it. And that's how it all started.OF: Great. Well, tell me a story then,
(04:00):
about when you would have used the camera.AD: This particular camera is more recent.
I have quite a few cameras. So I kind of move inbetween which cameras I like to use on tour. But
it's always something that's with me. It'sprobably one of the reasons I still do what
I do. I mean after 13 years of travelling to thesame cities over and over and over and over again…
OF (04:26):
So what cities are on a regular tour? AD
that you'll find artists going to, Shanghai inparticular. Because crowds in Shanghai are quite
consistent, and very good, very supportiveof indie music. Beijing, a little less so,
but still very good. Those are the two maincities. Then, if an artist is a little more
(04:52):
ambitious - or I should say, if the promotersare a little more ambitious - they might do
成都 [Chéngdū], 广州 [Guǎngzhōu], 武汉 [Wǔhàn], citieslike that. And then you can be really ambitious,
and move into like the more second or third tiercities. I've done shows now I think in 30 cities.
Oh wow. AD
(05:15):
and it’s like “OK, that was interesting. Butdefinitely not a place you want to go back to”.
Right. But then you never know, in a place like China, you go there one year
later, and suddenly it's 100 people, right?AD: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess that kind
of happened with my third favourite cityto do shows in, which is 洛阳 [Luòyáng].
洛阳 [Luòyáng]? AD
OK, so why would that be your third favourite? AD
(05:39):
always fairly consistent. You get probablyabout 70% of the audience as you would in
like Shanghai or Beijing, which is pretty good.And everyone's just so desperate for music, you
know - because there is none - that yeah, they'llgo to see whatever. They're very open about it,
experiencing new genres of music. And the cityitself is very interesting. Because, you know,
(06:04):
Beijing and Shanghai, obviously now with theinflux of expats, they’re very international,
easy to get around. But 洛阳 [Luòyáng]is still very provincial. So it's just
an interesting experience.OF: So how does it happen
that these artists are coming around China?AD: Well, as a promoter, I pitch the idea for the
tour. So I'll lay out the route that I think willwork for them. And then, you know, they'll come
(06:31):
back and say “Oh yeah, we're interested”, or not.Because I'll put in an offer for what we can pay.
And most of the time, they are very interestedin doing as many cities as they can, obviously,
but the more remote the city, the less theyknow about it, usually the more their interest
is piqued. Because if you look at 洛阳 [Luòyáng],most foreigners don't really know where that is.
(06:55):
Great. So out of 13 years, if you added up, how many of those tours do you think
you've gone through 洛阳 [Luòyáng] then?AD: I only started doing 洛阳 [Luòyáng]
much later. Because I’d done 郑州 [Zhèngzhōu]and 西安 [Xī’ān] - which are very close to 洛阳
[Luòyáng] - many times. But then I'd say thefirst show in 洛阳 [Luòyáng] was 2012. Probably
thirty. Thirty or forty.OF: Oh, wow.
AD (07:17):
Yeah. Probably closer to thirty than forty. OF
memorable tours that you've been a part of?AD: This probably happened four or five years ago,
I was travelling with this Swedish band, I won'tsay their name. And I was sharing a room with
their keyboardist. Because, you know, on tours,sometimes with larger groups, you have to share
(07:40):
rooms. It's very common. So I was roomingwith their keyboardist. And I'm not a big
partier - never have been - but some of the bandsdo like to drink. Especially the Scandinavian
bands, which is all good. You know, our hotel’sright across from venue, perfect. 洛阳 [Luòyáng],
the place we play, my friend owns it. So he'svery generous with the drink tickets. And a lot
(08:05):
of times bands stay and have fun. So this wasone of those nights, I went back early, went
to sleep. The keyboardist I was staying with, Idon't know when he got back, he probably got back
three or four. But I had to get up early and do alittle bit of work before we left. So yeah, I get
up like 7:30-8. And he's in bed. Everything lookspretty normal in the room. l go into the bathroom.
(08:28):
Everything's pretty pristine. Except right on themiddle of that bathmat was a large pile of s**t.
OF (08:35):
I was almost expecting you to say that. AD
because it was literally right next to the toilet.OF: Next to the toilet.
AD (08:46):
So I walked right back out. And I was like “You need to go clean that up.” Yeah,
he was quite baffled by that.OF: Are you sure it was his?
Pretty sure it was him.
OF (09:00):
Mind you, if that's the worst thing that's happened, that’s not as bad as
it could be perhaps in other countries.AD: Oh, yeah. No, yeah, we’ve never had
anything horrible…OF: Good.
AD (09:07):
…Yet. OF
of the bad stories, how about one of the successstories? Have you had any bands that, through you,
have then since gone on to bigger things in China?AD: Oh, for sure. I mean, the idea when I book the
bands is to help them build an audience locally,so that future tours are possible. You know,
there's more money involved, and they can comeback on a consistent basis. Like Postiljonen,
(09:33):
this Swedish/Norwegian band that I've knownfor years and years. When they first came,
they were very unknown. And they’re still quiteunknown to the rest of the world outside of like,
Norway, Sweden and China. Yeah, so you do likesmall rooms, you know, 20-30 people. And now
they came back last year and it was 400.OF: Wow. And then in what way do you
(09:57):
think that the music tastes in Chinaare any different to anywhere else,
or do you think it's more or less the same?AD: That's a hard one. I mean, in China,
obviously there are people who like all typesof music, just like anywhere else. Or follow any
type of music like anywhere else. Just not in thesame number. Take for example - since we're using
all my Nordic references - you go to somewherelike Norway and the total population is what,
(10:22):
4 million, 5 million.OF: Yeah.
So Oslo, the capital, I don’t think there’s even a million people. Don't fact check me on
that. I don't think there's a million people.And there's dozens of live houses. Of all sizes,
you know. They're consistently doing shows. Andthat's a city of less than a million. China,
there's over 100 of those. And in 洛阳 [Luòyáng]- what, 5-6 million people - there’s one place
(10:46):
I know of, to do shows. And they do maybe ahandful a year. It's just because most people
in China - and Asia in general - go towards like,more mainstream pop. They do have like, you know,
little niche fan groups of everything. But, yeah.OF: So I guess you'd call that, in other
countries, the ‘alternative’ scene, wouldn't you?AD: Yeah, you could call it the alternative.
(11:10):
So basically, anything that's not K-popor mainstream pop would be alternative.
OF (11:13):
…Which would be like rock, electronica, and hip hop, and like, 30…
AD (11:18):
Country… OF
Yeah, like everything. OF
All under that umbrella. OF
do you see it at least slowly changing?Or is it still pretty much pop-based.
Now it's pretty much pop-based. What changes is the revolving door of expats and foreigners
coming in. Seeing these underground shows, thereis a lot of energy there. It is quite nice. But
(11:43):
then thinking like “Oh wow, this is great. Thisis gonna grow big”. You know, “We're gonna make
it like the next United States, where there'sclubs everywhere, and everyone's into different
types of music”. And… yeah.OF: It never happened.
It never happened. It never happened. OF
gig, a year later they’ve moved on tosomewhere else. Is that what you mean?
Yeah, it's just the way it is. I mean, there's no lack of rock bands in China. But they never
(12:06):
spawned a greater movement, in those scenes. Maybethat is changing. I guess a good example now is
Higher Brothers, Rap Game. You know, they'vegotten a lot of press and a lot of hype. But
will that translate into them being able to playarenas and stadiums around China? We'll see.
OF (12:25):
Well, thank you very much. I mean, let's see. Maybe let's have another chat in five years time,
and you can tell me which band popped after all.AD: Yeah, exactly. And they
actually broke out. Yeah.OF: Well, good luck. What we'll
do now is go on to Part 2.AD: Alright.
[Part 2]OF: Let's jump straight in.
What's your favourite China-related fact?AD: Alright, I actually kind of already
(12:46):
mentioned this, but my favourite fact is,China is the only place with over 100 cities
with over a million people. So there's 102cities in China with over a million people.
In the US the number is 10.OF: Wow, yeah. Do you have
a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?AD: I was trying to think of different ones,
(13:06):
because I have different ones for differentsituations. But this is my favourite to
tell artists. So 牛逼 [niúbī].OF: OK, explain. Oh, hang on,
hang on. I think I know where you'regoing with this. Is 牛 [niú] the cow?
AD (13:18):
OK. So it means basically like ‘f**king great’, ‘f**king awesome’.
OF (13:23):
Right. AD
Yeah. AD
them during shows and stuff.OF: Really?
AD (13:31):
Oh, yeah. So when I try to explain that to the artists,
They all love it. Because it’s just funny.OF: What about, next question, what’s
your favourite destination within China?AD: I do love 洛阳 [Luòyáng], I’ve been there
so many times. 武当 [Wǔdāng] Mountain is nice.And then there are a couple of temples outside
(13:52):
of 西宁 [Xīníng], they’re also quite nice.OF: Right.
It would be between those two. OF
is, that’s over in the northwest, right?AD: Yeah, in 青海 [Qīnghǎi].
OF (14:03):
青海 [Qīnghǎi], right. And what about the second one you said, where's that?
AD (14:05):
武当 [Wǔdāng] Mountain is not far from 武汉 [Wǔhàn], it’s like a two hour train, I believe.
OF (14:09):
OK. AD
mountain. It’s like sheer drops on all four sides.OF: Oh, wow. OK.
AD (14:20):
It’s one of those where the emperor saw it and was like “I want a temple up there”…
OF (14:24):
Right. AD
mountain and build this massive temple.OF: Wow. And it's a day trip
from 武汉 [Wǔhàn], or is it..?AD: Oh no. Well, it'd be a very
tight day trip. You definitely wouldn't want to dothat, because there are quite a few trails to walk
around. But you can stay there. I haven't been ina few years, so I don't know if it's changed. But
(14:47):
you used to be able to stay in this little…OF: Guesthouse type thing?
AD (14:51):
Yeah. A Buddhist guest house, in the temple, on the top of the mountain. Because the only way
to get there is either by a cable car, or you canwalk up this path along the side of the mountain
that they built. But staying in the guesthouseis quite nice, because you're right there in
this temple.OF: Wow.
Sunset and sunrise is very beautiful. OF
(15:12):
the most, and what would you miss the least?AD: I guess I would miss just the way things
are done in China. I mean, after 18 years, Ikind of got used to how everything's done. I
guess the best example of that would be somethingsmall, like even exiting an aeroplane. In China,
everyone just gets up and the first person whocan get into the aisle, gets off the plane.
(15:32):
But there's an efficiency in that, because youlook, there are never any gaps in between people.
They're all exiting. Whereas every time I go backto the US, you’ve got to wait for that first row
in front of you, everyone to clear out. And, mygod, some people are so damn slow. So you always
see, there's like a gap of like 10-20 metres.OF: And that gap kills you.
(15:52):
Because, in a lot of ways, there’s efficiency in that chaos. So I kind of would miss that.
OF (16:00):
Right. AD
Oh, right. I mean, I sense it’s getting a little bit better. But it's still there, isn't it?
AD (16:09):
Yeah. OF
still mystifies you about life in China?AD: I guess what would mystify me is not
anything to do with China, but a lotof the expats that come to China.
OF (16:19):
Oh god. Yeah right, I hear you. AD
way. And when it's not - or it's not Westernenough, or whatever - they just complain and
complain. But yeah, I guess that's theonly thing that would semi-mystify me.
I guess that's a good answer. What's your favourite
place to go to, to eat, drink or hang out?AD: Probably RnB. Just because that's, you know,
(16:43):
where a lot of my friends go. So I'm partial tothat. It's nice, like a little hole in the wall.
Which part of town is it in? AD
…Where we used to live? AD
So where you still live.OF: Right.
AD (16:55):
Yeah. OF
just trying to think whether I've been there,I don't think I have. it's a record shop or..?
It's a record shop / bottle shop. OF
out what RnB stands for.AD: Yeah, Records n’ Beer,
Records n’ Beer. Yeah, so I still like togo there when I'm in that neighbourhood.
OF (17:14):
What's the best or worst purchase you've made in China?
AD (17:17):
One of the best purchases, I guess, was a custom made bed we had put in the apartment,
our old apartment, the one below yours. Thatwould probably be one of the best purchases,
mainly because we got to design it.And it served us very, very well.
OF (17:32):
What's your favourite WeChat sticker? AD
annoys my fiancée, because I do a similar face.OF: OK, so can you explain what this one is?
AD (17:46):
This one is Christian Bale doing an arrogant… Or no…
OF (17:52):
Oh, I would say arrogant. AD
kissy face, like smooch. Air smooch.OF: Yes. And there’s a high level of smugness.
AD (18:00):
Yeah. OF
Oh yeah. OF
can't imagine you doing this face.AD: I do that face.
OF (18:07):
Oh, dude. AD
time I put that sticker up, It's like “Oooh”OF: Uh-Oh.
AD (18:12):
Eye-rolling. And then - I actually made it sound better than it actually looks - but
it was a drawing done by a local Shanghaidesigner. Oh, man. I forgot her name. It's
me and my fiancée as slug-like creatures.OF: Oh, I love it. That's really cool.
(18:33):
And I animated it. OF
first one is very important. What is your go-tosong to sing at KTV? You being an introvert,
I'm sure you have a thousand.AD: I haven’t been to KTV in
a long time. But my go-to is S.H.E., Superstar.
OF (18:52):
Oh. AD
any of it. Not on here. But that was my go-to.OF: And does it impress people? Or was it like
“Oh god, he's bringing that one out again.”AD: Oh it impressed. Because, well
it’s a Chinese song.OF: Yeah.
AD (19:04):
You know, a Taiwanese band. OF
on the search for a good song to learn.AD: It’s pretty easy.
OF (19:11):
It’s a pretty easy one? AD
I didn't learn every word.It's easy to fake a lot of it.
Right. AD
chorus, “she’s my superstar.”OF: And finally, what other
China-related media do you rely on?AD: Well, being in the music industry,
I rely a lot on music platforms. So QQ Music isgood, NetEase, 豆瓣 [Dòubàn] on occasion. Those
(19:39):
are probably the ones I look at the most.OF: I don't think I've been on any of those
platforms. So I'll check them out. Good,well, thank you so much for your time Abe,
it was great to see you.AD: Yes, great to see you too.
And tell me then, so this is the final part of the podcast, where I ask our guests,
if there was someone else who I shouldinterview next, maybe the most interesting
person who you know in China, who would it be?AD: I'd like to recommend a friend of mine,
(20:02):
DJ BO. He's been here for about ten years.He's DJ’ed all over. Like, the first time I
really got to know him is when he asked me if Iwanted to go with him to North Korea to be his
photographer. He was the first DJ to performthere. So he has a lot of interesting stories.
That's awesome, I can't wait. And his name is ‘DJ BO’?
AD (20:25):
‘DJ BO’, yes. OF
I'm not sure I would like to smell him.AD: Yeah.
[Outro]OF: Well,
you probably heard that Abe used to be aneighbour of mine. Since recording this interview,
he’s moved out of our building and has in factmoved all the way to Hong Kong, where he now
manages tours across Asia. He also mentionedhis fiancée, well she is now his wife, and you
(20:49):
can see the WeChat sticker of them both as slugson social media, please go to @mosaicofchina_ on
Instagram or @mosaicofchina on Facebook, or add meon my Wechat ID: mosaicofchina, and I'll add you
to the group myself. It turns out that the artistwho made the slug caricatures is called Flabjacks.
I've also posted Abe's other favourite WeChatsticker, Christian Bale doing a despicable face;
(21:10):
there's Abe with his object, one of hismany cameras; there's a depiction of Abe's
favourite word or phrase in Chinese ‘牛逼[niúbī]’, meaning ‘awesome’. Don't worry,
I didn't post anything rude, this is a familyshow after all. I don't actually know the reason
why cow means awesome in Chinese, if anyone outthere knows then please share the story with the
rest of us. And there's lots of other stuffthere too: a photo of 武当 [Wǔdāng] Mountain,
(21:33):
which looks incredible; and 洛阳 [Luòyáng],both the city itself and some action shots
from some of the bands that Abe has takenthere. And plenty of other photos too,
a mixture of the cool - like tour photos- and the definitely uncool - such as
images depicting the size of cities inChina, and other geeky stuff there too.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, artwork byDenny Newell, and extra support from Milo de
(21:57):
Prieto and Alston Gong. Thank you for listening,and I will see you next week for Episode 28.
[Trailer]AD: Everything's
(00:03):
pretty pristine, except right on the middleof that bathmat was a large pile of s**t.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host Oscar Fuchs.
So before we get into today's episode,a quick thank you to everyone who was
(00:24):
inspired by last week's interview with Sabrinafrom the Shanghai International Dance Centre,
and who shared their favourite dancing stickerson WeChat. It was a nice little happy distraction
from what's going on in the world right now. Iuse the word distraction, because I'm coming to
terms with how much this has helped me over thelast seven weeks here in China. So I don't want
to dwell too much on the news of the Coronavirusin today's episode. But one thing I will mention
(00:48):
is that - what is it now? - it's March 242020, when this episode is being released,
and the situation in Shanghai is that there is anew app that you can download onto your phone that
runs a continuous contagion assessment on you.It's not mandatory, but for the last two weeks,
it's been increasingly difficult to enter certainbuildings without having this app and showing your
(01:10):
colour code. So if your colour code is green, itmeans that you are clear to enter the building.
But if it's orange or red, then that meansyou can't enter and you should consult medical
experts as soon as possible. What's going onhere is that maybe the app knows that you're
a confirmed COVID-19 patient, since it's linkedto your identity card. Or for the same reason,
(01:32):
maybe it knows that you've arrived from outsideof China and you shouldn't be out of quarantine
yet. Or maybe it traced you back to a metrocar, in which a fellow passenger later tested
positive for the virus. While being a dreamfor technology fans and epidemiologists,
this example reinforced my thoughts about howevery society dealing with this virus right now
is balancing the conflict between public safety onthe one hand, and individual privacy on the other.
(01:57):
You can see how China's reaction has definitelybeen heavily geared towards public safety.
On to today's episode, which is with thetour manager, Abe Deyo. There aren't many
live music shows happening right now, sothat's an obvious irony in releasing this
episode today. And maybe in another irony, Abealso mentions 武汉 [Wǔhàn] a couple of times in
(02:17):
our chat. It's funny how these days things likethat can make your ears prick up. It, of course,
didn't register as anything out of the ordinarywhen we recorded this chat several weeks ago.
[Part 1]OF: This is Abe Deyo,
the Directing Manager of Adapt, which isthe Emerging Artists arm of Live Nation.
(02:38):
Welcome to Mosaic of China. We startall these interviews by discussing an
object. So have you brought your object today?AD: I have, let me pull that out, It is a Contax
T3. So when I came here, I wasn't really intomusic, or the music industry at all. Photography,
that's kind of like my background. But being kindof a natural introvert, and someone who is very
(03:04):
interested in documentary photography, I alwayshad trouble meeting people to follow around,
and be that wallflower.OF: Mmm.
AD (03:13):
So through photography, I got into music, I started going to shows and taking pictures
there. Which was fun, but it still wasn'tdocumentary photography, which is what I love.
So I had this bright idea where I was like “OK…”- well, you know, this is back in 2005 - “Well,
there’s not many foreign bands coming. Maybeif I invite a band, put on a tour for them,
(03:37):
then I can just follow them around and takepictures”. Because they can't really say no,
if I'm the one who's organising everything.OF: Right.
Yeah, and little did I know, there's a little bit more into organising a tour than
just contacting somebody and saying “You want tocome over and do some shows?” But that's how I got
into it. And that's how it all started.OF: Great. Well, tell me a story then,
(04:00):
about when you would have used the camera.AD: This particular camera is more recent.
I have quite a few cameras. So I kind of move inbetween which cameras I like to use on tour. But
it's always something that's with me. It'sprobably one of the reasons I still do what
I do. I mean after 13 years of travelling to thesame cities over and over and over and over again…
OF (04:26):
So what cities are on a regular tour? AD
that you'll find artists going to, Shanghai inparticular. Because crowds in Shanghai are quite
consistent, and very good, very supportiveof indie music. Beijing, a little less so,
but still very good. Those are the two maincities. Then, if an artist is a little more
(04:52):
ambitious - or I should say, if the promotersare a little more ambitious - they might do
成都 [Chéngdū], 广州 [Guǎngzhōu], 武汉 [Wǔhàn], citieslike that. And then you can be really ambitious,
and move into like the more second or third tiercities. I've done shows now I think in 30 cities.
Oh wow. AD
(05:15):
and it’s like “OK, that was interesting. Butdefinitely not a place you want to go back to”.
Right. But then you never know, in a place like China, you go there one year
later, and suddenly it's 100 people, right?AD: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I guess that kind
of happened with my third favourite cityto do shows in, which is 洛阳 [Luòyáng].
洛阳 [Luòyáng]? AD
OK, so why would that be your third favourite? AD
(05:39):
always fairly consistent. You get probablyabout 70% of the audience as you would in
like Shanghai or Beijing, which is pretty good.And everyone's just so desperate for music, you
know - because there is none - that yeah, they'llgo to see whatever. They're very open about it,
experiencing new genres of music. And the cityitself is very interesting. Because, you know,
(06:04):
Beijing and Shanghai, obviously now with theinflux of expats, they’re very international,
easy to get around. But 洛阳 [Luòyáng]is still very provincial. So it's just
an interesting experience.OF: So how does it happen
that these artists are coming around China?AD: Well, as a promoter, I pitch the idea for the
tour. So I'll lay out the route that I think willwork for them. And then, you know, they'll come
(06:31):
back and say “Oh yeah, we're interested”, or not.Because I'll put in an offer for what we can pay.
And most of the time, they are very interestedin doing as many cities as they can, obviously,
but the more remote the city, the less theyknow about it, usually the more their interest
is piqued. Because if you look at 洛阳 [Luòyáng],most foreigners don't really know where that is.
(06:55):
Great. So out of 13 years, if you added up, how many of those tours do you think
you've gone through 洛阳 [Luòyáng] then?AD: I only started doing 洛阳 [Luòyáng]
much later. Because I’d done 郑州 [Zhèngzhōu]and 西安 [Xī’ān] - which are very close to 洛阳
[Luòyáng] - many times. But then I'd say thefirst show in 洛阳 [Luòyáng] was 2012. Probably
thirty. Thirty or forty.OF: Oh, wow.
AD (07:17):
Yeah. Probably closer to thirty than forty. OF
memorable tours that you've been a part of?AD: This probably happened four or five years ago,
I was travelling with this Swedish band, I won'tsay their name. And I was sharing a room with
their keyboardist. Because, you know, on tours,sometimes with larger groups, you have to share
(07:40):
rooms. It's very common. So I was roomingwith their keyboardist. And I'm not a big
partier - never have been - but some of the bandsdo like to drink. Especially the Scandinavian
bands, which is all good. You know, our hotel’sright across from venue, perfect. 洛阳 [Luòyáng],
the place we play, my friend owns it. So he'svery generous with the drink tickets. And a lot
(08:05):
of times bands stay and have fun. So this wasone of those nights, I went back early, went
to sleep. The keyboardist I was staying with, Idon't know when he got back, he probably got back
three or four. But I had to get up early and do alittle bit of work before we left. So yeah, I get
up like 7:30-8. And he's in bed. Everything lookspretty normal in the room. l go into the bathroom.
(08:28):
Everything's pretty pristine. Except right on themiddle of that bathmat was a large pile of s**t.
OF (08:35):
I was almost expecting you to say that. AD
because it was literally right next to the toilet.OF: Next to the toilet.
AD (08:46):
So I walked right back out. And I was like “You need to go clean that up.” Yeah,
he was quite baffled by that.OF: Are you sure it was his?
Pretty sure it was him.
OF (09:00):
Mind you, if that's the worst thing that's happened, that’s not as bad as
it could be perhaps in other countries.AD: Oh, yeah. No, yeah, we’ve never had
anything horrible…OF: Good.
AD (09:07):
…Yet. OF
of the bad stories, how about one of the successstories? Have you had any bands that, through you,
have then since gone on to bigger things in China?AD: Oh, for sure. I mean, the idea when I book the
bands is to help them build an audience locally,so that future tours are possible. You know,
there's more money involved, and they can comeback on a consistent basis. Like Postiljonen,
(09:33):
this Swedish/Norwegian band that I've knownfor years and years. When they first came,
they were very unknown. And they’re still quiteunknown to the rest of the world outside of like,
Norway, Sweden and China. Yeah, so you do likesmall rooms, you know, 20-30 people. And now
they came back last year and it was 400.OF: Wow. And then in what way do you
(09:57):
think that the music tastes in Chinaare any different to anywhere else,
or do you think it's more or less the same?AD: That's a hard one. I mean, in China,
obviously there are people who like all typesof music, just like anywhere else. Or follow any
type of music like anywhere else. Just not in thesame number. Take for example - since we're using
all my Nordic references - you go to somewherelike Norway and the total population is what,
(10:22):
4 million, 5 million.OF: Yeah.
So Oslo, the capital, I don’t think there’s even a million people. Don't fact check me on
that. I don't think there's a million people.And there's dozens of live houses. Of all sizes,
you know. They're consistently doing shows. Andthat's a city of less than a million. China,
there's over 100 of those. And in 洛阳 [Luòyáng]- what, 5-6 million people - there’s one place
(10:46):
I know of, to do shows. And they do maybe ahandful a year. It's just because most people
in China - and Asia in general - go towards like,more mainstream pop. They do have like, you know,
little niche fan groups of everything. But, yeah.OF: So I guess you'd call that, in other
countries, the ‘alternative’ scene, wouldn't you?AD: Yeah, you could call it the alternative.
(11:10):
So basically, anything that's not K-popor mainstream pop would be alternative.
OF (11:13):
…Which would be like rock, electronica, and hip hop, and like, 30…
AD (11:18):
Country… OF
Yeah, like everything. OF
All under that umbrella. OF
do you see it at least slowly changing?Or is it still pretty much pop-based.
Now it's pretty much pop-based. What changes is the revolving door of expats and foreigners
coming in. Seeing these underground shows, thereis a lot of energy there. It is quite nice. But
(11:43):
then thinking like “Oh wow, this is great. Thisis gonna grow big”. You know, “We're gonna make
it like the next United States, where there'sclubs everywhere, and everyone's into different
types of music”. And… yeah.OF: It never happened.
It never happened. It never happened. OF
gig, a year later they’ve moved on tosomewhere else. Is that what you mean?
Yeah, it's just the way it is. I mean, there's no lack of rock bands in China. But they never
(12:06):
spawned a greater movement, in those scenes. Maybethat is changing. I guess a good example now is
Higher Brothers, Rap Game. You know, they'vegotten a lot of press and a lot of hype. But
will that translate into them being able to playarenas and stadiums around China? We'll see.
OF (12:25):
Well, thank you very much. I mean, let's see. Maybe let's have another chat in five years time,
and you can tell me which band popped after all.AD: Yeah, exactly. And they
actually broke out. Yeah.OF: Well, good luck. What we'll
do now is go on to Part 2.AD: Alright.
[Part 2]OF: Let's jump straight in.
What's your favourite China-related fact?AD: Alright, I actually kind of already
(12:46):
mentioned this, but my favourite fact is,China is the only place with over 100 cities
with over a million people. So there's 102cities in China with over a million people.
In the US the number is 10.OF: Wow, yeah. Do you have
a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?AD: I was trying to think of different ones,
(13:06):
because I have different ones for differentsituations. But this is my favourite to
tell artists. So 牛逼 [niúbī].OF: OK, explain. Oh, hang on,
hang on. I think I know where you'regoing with this. Is 牛 [niú] the cow?
AD (13:18):
OK. So it means basically like ‘f**king great’, ‘f**king awesome’.
OF (13:23):
Right. AD
Yeah. AD
them during shows and stuff.OF: Really?
AD (13:31):
Oh, yeah. So when I try to explain that to the artists,
They all love it. Because it’s just funny.OF: What about, next question, what’s
your favourite destination within China?AD: I do love 洛阳 [Luòyáng], I’ve been there
so many times. 武当 [Wǔdāng] Mountain is nice.And then there are a couple of temples outside
(13:52):
of 西宁 [Xīníng], they’re also quite nice.OF: Right.
It would be between those two. OF
is, that’s over in the northwest, right?AD: Yeah, in 青海 [Qīnghǎi].
OF (14:03):
青海 [Qīnghǎi], right. And what about the second one you said, where's that?
AD (14:05):
武当 [Wǔdāng] Mountain is not far from 武汉 [Wǔhàn], it’s like a two hour train, I believe.
OF (14:09):
OK. AD
mountain. It’s like sheer drops on all four sides.OF: Oh, wow. OK.
AD (14:20):
It’s one of those where the emperor saw it and was like “I want a temple up there”…
OF (14:24):
Right. AD
mountain and build this massive temple.OF: Wow. And it's a day trip
from 武汉 [Wǔhàn], or is it..?AD: Oh no. Well, it'd be a very
tight day trip. You definitely wouldn't want to dothat, because there are quite a few trails to walk
around. But you can stay there. I haven't been ina few years, so I don't know if it's changed. But
(14:47):
you used to be able to stay in this little…OF: Guesthouse type thing?
AD (14:51):
Yeah. A Buddhist guest house, in the temple, on the top of the mountain. Because the only way
to get there is either by a cable car, or you canwalk up this path along the side of the mountain
that they built. But staying in the guesthouseis quite nice, because you're right there in
this temple.OF: Wow.
Sunset and sunrise is very beautiful. OF
(15:12):
the most, and what would you miss the least?AD: I guess I would miss just the way things
are done in China. I mean, after 18 years, Ikind of got used to how everything's done. I
guess the best example of that would be somethingsmall, like even exiting an aeroplane. In China,
everyone just gets up and the first person whocan get into the aisle, gets off the plane.
(15:32):
But there's an efficiency in that, because youlook, there are never any gaps in between people.
They're all exiting. Whereas every time I go backto the US, you’ve got to wait for that first row
in front of you, everyone to clear out. And, mygod, some people are so damn slow. So you always
see, there's like a gap of like 10-20 metres.OF: And that gap kills you.
(15:52):
Because, in a lot of ways, there’s efficiency in that chaos. So I kind of would miss that.
OF (16:00):
Right. AD
Oh, right. I mean, I sense it’s getting a little bit better. But it's still there, isn't it?
AD (16:09):
Yeah. OF
still mystifies you about life in China?AD: I guess what would mystify me is not
anything to do with China, but a lotof the expats that come to China.
OF (16:19):
Oh god. Yeah right, I hear you. AD
way. And when it's not - or it's not Westernenough, or whatever - they just complain and
complain. But yeah, I guess that's theonly thing that would semi-mystify me.
I guess that's a good answer. What's your favourite
place to go to, to eat, drink or hang out?AD: Probably RnB. Just because that's, you know,
(16:43):
where a lot of my friends go. So I'm partial tothat. It's nice, like a little hole in the wall.
Which part of town is it in? AD
…Where we used to live? AD
So where you still live.OF: Right.
AD (16:55):
Yeah. OF
just trying to think whether I've been there,I don't think I have. it's a record shop or..?
It's a record shop / bottle shop. OF
out what RnB stands for.AD: Yeah, Records n’ Beer,
Records n’ Beer. Yeah, so I still like togo there when I'm in that neighbourhood.
OF (17:14):
What's the best or worst purchase you've made in China?
AD (17:17):
One of the best purchases, I guess, was a custom made bed we had put in the apartment,
our old apartment, the one below yours. Thatwould probably be one of the best purchases,
mainly because we got to design it.And it served us very, very well.
OF (17:32):
What's your favourite WeChat sticker? AD
annoys my fiancée, because I do a similar face.OF: OK, so can you explain what this one is?
AD (17:46):
This one is Christian Bale doing an arrogant… Or no…
OF (17:52):
Oh, I would say arrogant. AD
kissy face, like smooch. Air smooch.OF: Yes. And there’s a high level of smugness.
AD (18:00):
Yeah. OF
Oh yeah. OF
can't imagine you doing this face.AD: I do that face.
OF (18:07):
Oh, dude. AD
time I put that sticker up, It's like “Oooh”OF: Uh-Oh.
AD (18:12):
Eye-rolling. And then - I actually made it sound better than it actually looks - but
it was a drawing done by a local Shanghaidesigner. Oh, man. I forgot her name. It's
me and my fiancée as slug-like creatures.OF: Oh, I love it. That's really cool.
(18:33):
And I animated it. OF
first one is very important. What is your go-tosong to sing at KTV? You being an introvert,
I'm sure you have a thousand.AD: I haven’t been to KTV in
a long time. But my go-to is S.H.E., Superstar.
OF (18:52):
Oh. AD
any of it. Not on here. But that was my go-to.OF: And does it impress people? Or was it like
“Oh god, he's bringing that one out again.”AD: Oh it impressed. Because, well
it’s a Chinese song.OF: Yeah.
AD (19:04):
You know, a Taiwanese band. OF
on the search for a good song to learn.AD: It’s pretty easy.
OF (19:11):
It’s a pretty easy one? AD
I didn't learn every word.It's easy to fake a lot of it.
Right. AD
chorus, “she’s my superstar.”OF: And finally, what other
China-related media do you rely on?AD: Well, being in the music industry,
I rely a lot on music platforms. So QQ Music isgood, NetEase, 豆瓣 [Dòubàn] on occasion. Those
(19:39):
are probably the ones I look at the most.OF: I don't think I've been on any of those
platforms. So I'll check them out. Good,well, thank you so much for your time Abe,
it was great to see you.AD: Yes, great to see you too.
And tell me then, so this is the final part of the podcast, where I ask our guests,
if there was someone else who I shouldinterview next, maybe the most interesting
person who you know in China, who would it be?AD: I'd like to recommend a friend of mine,
(20:02):
DJ BO. He's been here for about ten years.He's DJ’ed all over. Like, the first time I
really got to know him is when he asked me if Iwanted to go with him to North Korea to be his
photographer. He was the first DJ to performthere. So he has a lot of interesting stories.
That's awesome, I can't wait. And his name is ‘DJ BO’?
AD (20:25):
‘DJ BO’, yes. OF
I'm not sure I would like to smell him.AD: Yeah.
[Outro]OF: Well,
you probably heard that Abe used to be aneighbour of mine. Since recording this interview,
he’s moved out of our building and has in factmoved all the way to Hong Kong, where he now
manages tours across Asia. He also mentionedhis fiancée, well she is now his wife, and you
(20:49):
can see the WeChat sticker of them both as slugson social media, please go to @mosaicofchina_ on
Instagram or @mosaicofchina on Facebook, or add meon my Wechat ID: mosaicofchina, and I'll add you
to the group myself. It turns out that the artistwho made the slug caricatures is called Flabjacks.
I've also posted Abe's other favourite WeChatsticker, Christian Bale doing a despicable face;
(21:10):
there's Abe with his object, one of hismany cameras; there's a depiction of Abe's
favourite word or phrase in Chinese ‘牛逼[niúbī]’, meaning ‘awesome’. Don't worry,
I didn't post anything rude, this is a familyshow after all. I don't actually know the reason
why cow means awesome in Chinese, if anyone outthere knows then please share the story with the
rest of us. And there's lots of other stuffthere too: a photo of 武当 [Wǔdāng] Mountain,
(21:33):
which looks incredible; and 洛阳 [Luòyáng],both the city itself and some action shots
from some of the bands that Abe has takenthere. And plenty of other photos too,
a mixture of the cool - like tour photos- and the definitely uncool - such as
images depicting the size of cities inChina, and other geeky stuff there too.
Mosaic of China is me Oscar Fuchs, artwork byDenny Newell, and extra support from Milo de
(21:57):
Prieto and Alston Gong. Thank you for listening,and I will see you next week for Episode 28.
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