January 4, 2021 • 28 mins
Shanghai is one of those magical places where people can somehow become who they were always supposed to be. This is what happened to Katherine Wong, who decided one day to quit her corporate job, and start earning a living by sharing her knowledge of traditional Peruvian remedies with customers in China. Growing up in Peru with a Taiwanese father, a Bolivian mother, and a nanny from the Amazonian jungle, Katherine is perfectly placed to describe the links between Peru and China, as well as explore the similarities and differences in their beliefs and superstitions. The episode also includes a catch-up interview with Angie WU from Season 01 Episode 18. (https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-18-angie-wu). Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:37 - Part 1 17:17 - Part 2 23:16 - Outro 25:43 - Catch-Up Interview Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at https://mosaicofchina.com/season-02-episode-04-katherine-wong. Join the community on Instagram (https://instagram.com/oscology), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina), Facebook (https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina) or WeChat (https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat).
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
[Trailer]KW: He would actually tell me
that if people in China will know what I'mdoing, they would hang me like a witch!
[Intro]
Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast aboutpeople who are making their mark in China.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
Happy New Year everyone, and a special thank youto the first new subscribers of 2021 on Patreon,
(00:26):
who get access to the full-lengthPREMIUM version of the show. Today's
shout-outs go to Kristianna Foye, IanChang, Matt Conover and Dan Fischl.
While the last episode of 2020 was specialin that Chang Chihyun was the substitute for
someone who dropped out of Season 2, today's firstepisode of 2021 is special in a different way.
(00:51):
It's with Katherine Wong, who was nominated bysomeone in Season 1, Angie Wu from Episode 18, and
there's a catch-up with Angie at the end of theshow. What's special is that Katherine left China
in January 2020, and at the time of recordingwas still stuck overseas. However since she was
basically still conducting her 'China life' fromthere, and was ready to physically return as soon
(01:15):
as possible, I fudged the rules and decided thatshe still counts as being part of the Mosaic in
this exceptional year, and we did the interviewremotely. There are four of five people in the
Season who fit this same criteria, so I've bentthe rules for all those guests, just for Season 2.
I hope that today’s episode will convinceyou that I made the right decision.
[Part 1]OF:
(01:39):
Thank you so much, Katherine,It's great to see you.
KW (01:41):
Yes same, same here. It's been a long time. OF
it was through our mutual friend Angie.[Start of Audio Clip]
Angie WU (01:51):
You should interview Katherine. She's a healer. She's from Peru. And she does workshops
on cleansing. It's really good for people whoare living in Shanghai, we are always in a very
stressful, like, lifestyle. Yeah.[End of Audio Clip]
KW (02:08):
She's one of the first friends I met when I came to China. I think it was the same for
her. And because she also has some South Americanbackground, we started to hang out more and more.
OF (02:23):
Well, it's great to see you here. You are currently in Peru. Whereabouts are you in Peru?
KW (02:30):
I’m in a little town called Arequipa. In the south of Peru. It's a very
beautiful and touristic city here in Peru.OF: But you can't see the touristic sites
because you're stuck at home still.KW: No! I can see only the four walls
of the house. Actually, we have a very beautifulterrace where I can see the three main volcanoes.
(02:55):
So for that, I feel I'm very blessed.OF: That’s completely different to
the backdrop we would have had ifwe were meeting here in Shanghai.
Yeah, completely. OF
a photo and share it with us, because that soundsso incredible. But the first thing that I would
ask you is the same thing I ask everyone, whichis, what is the object that you have prepared
(03:19):
that in some way explains your life in China?KW: So this is a quartz. It's a very special
quartz because it's a blendof clear quartz and amethyst.
Everything has energy in life, including flowersand crystals. So this crystal carries a lot of
energy and information. And it has helped me toconnect more to myself and the work that I do.
OF (03:45):
And so what is that work? KW
‘healer’? Some people call it ‘light worker’.OF: Explain what that means, then,
what's a ‘light worker’?KW: A light worker is someone
who is very connected to his or her higher self,
(04:06):
and works with energy… Works with light.OF: OK, well where do we start with that?
Why don't we start with where you are now? Becauseyou come from Peru, but what is your background?
KW (04:21):
My father, he's Taiwanese. My mother is Bolivian. I was born in Bolivia. But then
when I was little, I moved to Peru, so this iswhere I grew up, in Peru. Peru is in my heart.
So I grew up with two different culturesin my life. And then, later in life,
(04:42):
I moved to Taiwan to live for a year. And afterthat, we moved to Central America, in Nicaragua.
And after that, I moved to Shanghai, whereI thought I was going to be for one year.
But now I'm there for already 16 years.OF: Yeah, it tends to work like that, doesn't it?
(05:02):
Yeah. China has something… a special energy that keeps people there.
OF (05:07):
Yeah. Well, let's go back to where it began. You mentioned, of course, Peru.
My image of Peru is that it has quite alot of Asian influences, when you compare
with other Latin American countries.KW: I believe Peru has the biggest
Chinese society. You can see a lot ofChinese restaurants, you could find
(05:31):
maybe two or three Chinese restaurants in oneblock. The community was quite active. And if
you go to Chinatown, then you feel somehow you arelike on 南京东路 [Nánjīng dōnglù], a little bit. With
different shops and a lot of Chinese. Yeah.OF: Nice. So it was quite integrated into
(05:52):
the Peruvian lifestyle, or do you stillfeel that you were a strong minority?
KW (05:58):
I felt a strong association with the Latins. Going to parties, and
the sense of humour that people have here.OF: So now I'm feeling sorry for your
Taiwanese father. It sounds likehe was the minority in your family.
Yeah. OF
life in Shanghai. You are, as you would put it, alight healer. Is that something you've known about
(06:23):
from the start, and you did that from day one?KW: Not at all. I really had no idea
what energy is. So I had no idea of any of thesethings to be like, special. My mom, she tells me
the story. When I was a little baby, I wouldcry and cry, nonstop. And she would take me to
(06:44):
different doctors. And doctors would tell herthat I was fine, there’s nothing wrong with me.
So then she took me to my grandmother, whoused to work with a special way of healing.
She comes from a town where the mostfamous shamans come from in Peru.
(07:05):
Her grandfather was a really famous healer,and people would come from other cities just
to see him. And she did her magical work on me.And after three times, I just stopped crying.
And so, every time I would have something minor,my mum just would take me to my grandmother.
(07:27):
And it was like this with me, with my sister,with my cousins… This, for me, was very natural.
And then I would have, also, my nanny. Here inSouth America, it's very common to have a nanny,
like an 阿姨 [āyí] who lives with you in yourhouse. And my nanny comes from the jungle, very
(07:48):
deep jungle. So if there was anything, she wouldcome with some herbs, and then we would be fine.
OF (07:54):
That’s so interesting to hear, because my background is from a very secular, city lifestyle
in Europe. To hear you so casually talking aboutyour grandparents who had a healer in the family,
that, to me, is so alien. I hear about Peru inthis context quite a lot, you know, with ayahuasca
(08:19):
and shamanistic traditions, what is it about Peru?KW: We have such an old culture with tribes who
are still alive. A lot has been lost, butat the same time, a lot has been passed on
from generations through generations,up until now. Of course, 10 years ago,
(08:40):
some people would call it witchcraft.OF: Right. Right, and I can assume that
your father would have beenvery sceptical in that case.
KW (08:48):
Oh yeah totally, totally. That was one of the many things where my mother and my father
would not agree on. But even though he would notbelieve or understand, he would still let my mum
or my grandmother do this kind of healing to us…OF: …Because he would see the results, right?
(09:08):
Yes, he would see the result! And even though he would see the result, the time when I started
to do this as work, he would actually tell methat if people in China will know what I'm doing,
they would hang me like a witch!OF: Well, let's jump forward, then, to that
(09:29):
time in China. So how did you start doing this?KW: Well, I came to China to study Chinese
for one year, and decided to stay a little bitlonger. First, I was working as an interpreter
for people from South America. So I was travellingaround China helping with the language. And then
(09:49):
after this, I worked for seven years for aninsurance company as an agent. But then things
started to change in the company. You know,I have been really happy for seven years.
And then suddenly, things change, and Istarted to be unhappy. And I was thinking “No,
I cannot live like this”. And this wassomething that pushed me to quit my job.
(10:14):
And I thought “Oh, maybe I can start chargingfor the services I have been doing for free”.
Because I had been doing healing, thehealing that my grandmother used to do on me,
I used to do it on my baby, I used to do it onmy friends' babies. And I started to charge.
It felt very strange at the beginning, tocharge for something I was giving away for
(10:38):
free.OF:
And how do you even know what to charge, right?KW: Yes. Yeah, it was really, really hard. Of
course, I started charging very little. But thenyou realise it's your time, it's your energy,
and it's like going to the doctor. So that'show it started, the service part of my business.
(11:00):
And the product part of my business also wasborn at that time, more or less. It was 2015.
And the pollution was extremely bad. And I wasthinking “How can I clean the air in my house?”
So I started researching, and I found thatof course, plants can clean the air, and also
(11:23):
beeswax candles. That's when I learned thathaving paraffin candles in your house can be
even more toxic. So I was trying to find beeswaxcandles in the market. I couldn't find any. I
am a flower remedy practitioner, so I thought“Mmm hmm, why don't I create a beeswax candle,
and I could infuse them with my flower remedies”.
(11:46):
So I started to research into beeswax, I startedto learn how to make candles. Finally, I found
a provider. There are so many fakes, so many.OF: You bought what you thought was beeswax,
but it wasn't beeswax?KW: Yes. I mean, they sell it as beeswax.
You see it's yellow, but it's yellow because theyput dye in there. So I found the right provider,
(12:12):
the right beeswax, and then that's how itstarted. Then people started to find me;
I started to be interviewed for magazines; Istarted to be asked to go on talks to tell people
what I do… because it's very special and veryfulfilling to do something that you really love.
OF (12:33):
Great. And you mentioned, then, that there was the product side - that’s a great example,
with the beeswax - what about the serviceside? What kind of service do you provide?
KW (12:44):
I am a sound healer, so I work with singing bowls. I work with flower remedies, which is the
energy of the flower. We believe - and alsoin Chinese medicine, they believe - that all
illnesses come from emotions that have not beenprocessed well. So flower remedies help with this.
OF (13:04):
Can I ask you, then, for an example? Like, which particular emotion
is healed by which particular flower?KW: The plants that I work with, they are orchids.
And orchids are the most evolved flowers on theplanet. I will create blends of different flowers.
Maybe you're anxious about something specific,so it will be not the same blend for you than for
(13:27):
someone else. Also, I work very intuitively.OF: Interesting. And what other services?
KW (13:33):
Ah yeah. So, I do practice what my grandmother taught me, which is ‘aura cleansing’. And for the
aura cleansing, I use an egg, a raw egg.OF: A raw egg?
Yeah. OF
So it’s the raw egg. And the client lays down in a massage bed, but I don't do any massage.
(13:59):
I pass this egg around the aura of a person.And at the end of the session, I break the egg
in a glass of water. And you can see differentkinds of shapes. And we are both able to see if
the aura was clean, or if there was something bad- like bad energy, or stuck energy - in your aura.
(14:22):
My grandmother, she had two cases where somebodywas really sick. And when she broke the egg,
the egg had a lot of blood inside. Andthe other one was… the egg almost cooked!
The energy of the person was really bad.OF: Wow.
And have you had similar experiences yourself inChina? Like, what were the more extreme situations
(14:46):
that you've been in, with the aura cleansing?KW: The egg just breaks in my hand,
because the energy of the person is so strong,and so bad, that the egg will just break
as soon as it close in contact with the person.OF: Wow, interesting. And your clients,
are they also other Latin Americans whounderstand this? Or are there people who
(15:08):
you are introducing it to, for the first time?KW: The last year, there has been, maybe, a growth
of Chinese people coming to see me. And I findit fascinating, because people who come to me,
it's people who are well-educated, and theyjust realise that money is not everything.
OF (15:29):
That's great. And so how do you feel that you have changed through this process?
KW (15:34):
I think the more you do it, the more confident you get.
OF (15:37):
Right, because your story was a strange one, you had this family background,
you didn't really understand it, you didn'treally pursue it. And then suddenly, you sort
of fell into it. And so I guess, was part ofyour development just realising “Oh, wait,
I can do this. I'm not just pretending.”KW: Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Do you see that there is now more acceptance of this kind of thing, or do you think,
(16:02):
in general, your father is still correct?KW: No, I think, not just in China,
but in general, humanity is openingup to this kind of spiritual work.
People are using herbs, people are using crystals,people believe in chakras. So this is all a little
step, you know, for people’s spirituality.OF: Yeah, I think you are describing my
(16:24):
own personal development. Because I am asceptic, but the more that I expose myself
to this kind of thinking, and to people whopractice it, the more I am open-minded to it,
you know. And I've done some sound therapywith those Tibetan bowls. And I've got a friend
who does Reiki healing. And I've done some crystalhealing in the past. And each time, I do feel the
(16:49):
energy, and I don't know exactly what's goingon, I can't articulate how it felt. But I could
feel that there was something happening for sure.KW: Yes, yes. And I think that's the first step
for people to start to understand, and awaken.OF: Thank you so much, Katherine.
KW (17:07):
Thank you so much, Oscar. I'm really happy to share my story with you.
OF (17:12):
Let's move on to Part 2. KW
[Part 2]OF: OK, let's jump in. Question
one. What is your favourite China related fact?KW: There is a temple of my ancestors somewhere
in 广东 [Guǎngdōng]. So for me,that was very interesting.
(17:32):
And it's specifically your clan? KW
Wongs, they all come only from one line.OF: OK, Well, when you come back to China,
you should make your pilgrimageto 广东 [Guǎngdōng] in that case.
KW (17:46):
That's really interesting. OF
do you have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?KW: Yes, it's 旅途愉快 [Lǚtú yúkuài], which is ‘Have
safe travels’. The first time I heard it, I foundit funny. And then I kept using it, not knowing
what it means. Until I asked my father what itmeans. And yeah, it makes sense. I love to travel.
OF (18:06):
Nice. And did you learn that in Peru? Or did you learn that in China?
KW (18:11):
I learned that in China. OF
taught that to you when you were small?KW: No, actually, he never talked to
us in Chinese when we were small.OF: Really? Is he happy now that you
can speak some Chinese?KW: He’s proud.
OF (18:24):
Ah. What is your favourite destination within China?
KW (18:27):
Yunnan. It is beautiful. I feel the energies in that place are really pure and amazing.
OF (18:34):
Next question. If you left China, what would you miss the most,
and what would you miss the least? Now, you'vebeen outside of China for, is it nine months?
KW (18:43):
Yeah. OF
do you actually miss the most, and the least?KW: Online shopping. It's mostly for groceries.
It is so easy. So efficient. You get yourgroceries within one hour. Here, in Peru,
there are no such things. So when the pandemicstarted here, my mother had to call the lady
(19:06):
from the little shop to ask “Do you have this? Doyou have that?” And if she would say “Yes, I have
this bread”. “Okay, which brand?” “I have thisbrand, this brand”. So it would take a long time?
OF (19:19):
Of course. Wow, a great example. And what about the thing that you miss the least?
KW (19:24):
The fast pace of life? Because when you're there you feel everything is working so fast,
and you're sucked in this energy of going fast.OF: Yeah, there's no escape. Is there anything
about life in China that still surprises you?KW: Change. Change, in terms of how fast there's
(19:47):
buildings appearing, or disappearing.In my street, in two or three months,
they are, like, four coffee shops. New.OF: Yeah. So it's gonna be a surprise when
you come back to China, to see what'sgoing to be on your street now, right?
Yes. OF
where is your favourite place to goout, to eat or drink or hang out?
(20:10):
When I'm with my family, we love to go to Lost Bakery for breakfast. And when it's just me,
I love to go to Cafe On Air for work. It's avery cute hidden coffee shop. It's so peaceful.
OF (20:25):
OK, what is the best or worst purchase you have made in China?
KW (20:29):
Definitely my 30 kilos of fake beeswax was the worst purchase I've ever made.
OF (20:36):
30 kilos. KW
They sent me a sample. I approved the sample.And when they sent me all these blocks
of beeswax, it was fake. They changed it.OF: When you're starting a business, you can't
afford to lose that much, right?KW: No.
Wow. KW
Yeah. And how about the best, is there a nice story after that terrible story?
KW (20:59):
Yeah, I found a good provider, who I have stuck with until today.
OF (21:03):
Yeah. KW
OK, now pick up your phone, and send me your favourite WeChat sticker.
KW (21:10):
OK. OF
received it, from Peru to Shanghai.KW:
Yeah, I love this sticker because itdescribes the feeling of excitement
and happiness that I have sometimes.OF: And so what is this from? Do you
have… It looks like it's from a movie.Can you explain what they're wearing?
(21:33):
They look like ballerinas. From the 70s. OF
one right at the back. And she isconcentrating very, very carefully.
I didn't see her. OF
What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?KW: I've stopped going to KTV for so long.
But, at home, John Legend (21:58):
“All Of Me”. OF
song really.KW: Yes.
OF (22:07):
Are you a romantic Latin type after all? KW
And finally, what other China related mediaor sources of information do you rely on?
KW (22:19):
I am not a person who reads news. But if I read something, it will be
from 'The Shanghaiist’. They have funny news.OF: Yeah, I don't think anyone's mentioned The
Shanghaiist before. Yeah, they do a good job.KW: Yeah, very entertaining.
OK (22:35):
Well, thank you so much, Katherine, you've also been very entertaining. Before I say goodbye,
tell me who out of everyone you knowin China, would you recommend that I
interview for Season 3 of mosaic of China?KW: Definitely Alizée. She is a very special
person. She's the founder of Zero Waste Shanghai.
OF (22:55):
Zero Waste, OK. KW
I think, everywhere in the world right now.OF: Yeah. Well, Katherine, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you for calling me all the way from Peru.I think it's close to midnight now where you are,
so I will let you go to bed.KW: Thank you. I'm very grateful.
[Outro]OF:
(23:18):
So, the most important news is that Katherineis back in China! She arrived in November,
got out of quarantine in December, and hassettled back into Shanghai life in January,
just in time for this episode to be released.Congratulations Katherine. The second most
important thing is to play the excerpts fromthe PREMIUM version of today's episode, and
(23:38):
I promise if you listen to the full version, youwill never look at a guinea pig in the same way.
[Clip 1]KW: I think I've had the
longest quarantine in the world.[Clip 2]
And then just as we were talking about your father, in he comes!
[Clip 3]KW:
So the guinea pig was used as an X-ray.[Clip 4]
I’m nervous now. Please don't draw the death card.
KW (23:59):
Breathe deeply. [End of Audio Clips]
OF (24:04):
And the third most important thing is that we
didn't actually mention thename of Katherine’s brand,
which is ‘The Andean Apothecary’. You can find outall about it at https://theandeanapothecay.com.
For help with how to spell that, just findus on social media, we're on @mosaicofchina
on Instagram, Facebook and WeChat. And it'sthere where you can also find lots of images to
accompany today's show (24:25):
there's some of Arequipa, the city in southern Peru where Katherine was
stuck for 11 months; her favourite WeChat sticker,the dancers with the big... personalities; photos
of her family, including her younger sister; andone of her nanny in her hometown in the Amazon
carrying a whole termite mound home to feed toher chickens. 'Cafe On Air' is there as one of
(24:49):
her favourite hangouts, which incidentally wasalso the favourite hangout of Lissanthea Taylor,
the pain management expert from Season01 Episode 28; Katherine's favourite
China-related information source, Shanghaiist,which actually appears to be on hiatus right now;
and a graphic on 旅途愉快 [lǚtú yúkuài] which doestranslate into English as 'happy travels,' but
(25:11):
I’m much more likely to use the Frenchphrase 'Bon Voyage'. Maybe that’s because
we don't really have a good phrase for this inEnglish, or maybe it's because I’m pretentious.
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artworkby Denny Newell. Coming up is the short version of
my catch-up interview with Angie Wu from Episode18 of Season 01, and I'll see you again next week.
(25:41):
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: Hello, Angie.
AW (25:45):
Hello. It's actually really nice to see you again. It’s been a while.
OF (25:47):
Yeah. I wanted to have this chance to catch up with you, and for us to see what
has happened to you since we did our recording.AW: So I went to Boracay on the 17th of January
for a kitesurfing trip, like we usually dowith my ex boyfriend - now the ex boyfriend,
he was my boyfriend still at that time- so we landed on the 17th of January,
(26:09):
we were supposed to stay two weeks. ThenCOVID happened, so I stayed for two months.
Oh, wow. AW
was expiring - his Chinese visa - I knew that, soI told him “Let's go back to China” because it’s…
China is safe already, around the middleof February. And he was like “No, no, no,
it's too dangerous.” He decided to stay, andthere's no way you can convince him otherwise,
(26:32):
when he's convinced of something you cannot changehim. So what happened is that… I went alone.
OK. And then now, here you are. So it's now been since March that you've been in Shanghai,
what's been your life like since then?AW: I got out of ‘jail’ on the 11th of April,
I moved back to my apartment. And my lifebegan. And this has been the best year
(26:55):
of my life in Shanghai, for the last 15 years.OF: Oh, wow.
AW (26:58):
Because I finally had a break. My business was slow.
For the first time in 15 years, I had a chanceto relax, meet my friends, eat on time, sleep
enough. I was having the best time of my life.OF: Did you create a new collection?
I have really amazing collections coming up. But they're not my priority anymore. Work is not
(27:24):
my priority anymore. I reset my priority of life.OF: Interesting. I think that's what I can
visibly see with you. You have alightness about you, which perhaps
I didn't see last year. Ihope that people listening
will also see the light at the end of thetunnel that, you know, that obviously you have
come out of it a completely different person.AW: I really feel compassionate and sorry about
(27:47):
all the people in the world. Because my parentsare stuck in Montreal, they are going through a
second lockdown, alone. So we are really lucky inShanghai, and there's not one day I’m not grateful
for everything that's happening in my life. Butat the same time, I do feel sorry for the world
and hope everyone can get something good out ofthis experience, something that enlightens them,
(28:12):
or something that makes them pursue a better life.OF: Yes. Thank you so much, Angie,
it's been great to see you again.AW: Thank you very much for having me.
[Trailer]KW: He would actually tell me
that if people in China will know what I'mdoing, they would hang me like a witch!
[Intro]
Welcome to Mosaic of China, a podcast aboutpeople who are making their mark in China.
I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
Happy New Year everyone, and a special thank youto the first new subscribers of 2021 on Patreon,
(00:26):
who get access to the full-lengthPREMIUM version of the show. Today's
shout-outs go to Kristianna Foye, IanChang, Matt Conover and Dan Fischl.
While the last episode of 2020 was specialin that Chang Chihyun was the substitute for
someone who dropped out of Season 2, today's firstepisode of 2021 is special in a different way.
(00:51):
It's with Katherine Wong, who was nominated bysomeone in Season 1, Angie Wu from Episode 18, and
there's a catch-up with Angie at the end of theshow. What's special is that Katherine left China
in January 2020, and at the time of recordingwas still stuck overseas. However since she was
basically still conducting her 'China life' fromthere, and was ready to physically return as soon
(01:15):
as possible, I fudged the rules and decided thatshe still counts as being part of the Mosaic in
this exceptional year, and we did the interviewremotely. There are four of five people in the
Season who fit this same criteria, so I've bentthe rules for all those guests, just for Season 2.
I hope that today’s episode will convinceyou that I made the right decision.
[Part 1]OF:
(01:39):
Thank you so much, Katherine,It's great to see you.
KW (01:41):
Yes same, same here. It's been a long time. OF
it was through our mutual friend Angie.[Start of Audio Clip]
Angie WU (01:51):
You should interview Katherine. She's a healer. She's from Peru. And she does workshops
on cleansing. It's really good for people whoare living in Shanghai, we are always in a very
stressful, like, lifestyle. Yeah.[End of Audio Clip]
KW (02:08):
She's one of the first friends I met when I came to China. I think it was the same for
her. And because she also has some South Americanbackground, we started to hang out more and more.
OF (02:23):
Well, it's great to see you here. You are currently in Peru. Whereabouts are you in Peru?
KW (02:30):
I’m in a little town called Arequipa. In the south of Peru. It's a very
beautiful and touristic city here in Peru.OF: But you can't see the touristic sites
because you're stuck at home still.KW: No! I can see only the four walls
of the house. Actually, we have a very beautifulterrace where I can see the three main volcanoes.
(02:55):
So for that, I feel I'm very blessed.OF: That’s completely different to
the backdrop we would have had ifwe were meeting here in Shanghai.
Yeah, completely. OF
a photo and share it with us, because that soundsso incredible. But the first thing that I would
ask you is the same thing I ask everyone, whichis, what is the object that you have prepared
(03:19):
that in some way explains your life in China?KW: So this is a quartz. It's a very special
quartz because it's a blendof clear quartz and amethyst.
Everything has energy in life, including flowersand crystals. So this crystal carries a lot of
energy and information. And it has helped me toconnect more to myself and the work that I do.
OF (03:45):
And so what is that work? KW
‘healer’? Some people call it ‘light worker’.OF: Explain what that means, then,
what's a ‘light worker’?KW: A light worker is someone
who is very connected to his or her higher self,
(04:06):
and works with energy… Works with light.OF: OK, well where do we start with that?
Why don't we start with where you are now? Becauseyou come from Peru, but what is your background?
KW (04:21):
My father, he's Taiwanese. My mother is Bolivian. I was born in Bolivia. But then
when I was little, I moved to Peru, so this iswhere I grew up, in Peru. Peru is in my heart.
So I grew up with two different culturesin my life. And then, later in life,
(04:42):
I moved to Taiwan to live for a year. And afterthat, we moved to Central America, in Nicaragua.
And after that, I moved to Shanghai, whereI thought I was going to be for one year.
But now I'm there for already 16 years.OF: Yeah, it tends to work like that, doesn't it?
(05:02):
Yeah. China has something… a special energy that keeps people there.
OF (05:07):
Yeah. Well, let's go back to where it began. You mentioned, of course, Peru.
My image of Peru is that it has quite alot of Asian influences, when you compare
with other Latin American countries.KW: I believe Peru has the biggest
Chinese society. You can see a lot ofChinese restaurants, you could find
(05:31):
maybe two or three Chinese restaurants in oneblock. The community was quite active. And if
you go to Chinatown, then you feel somehow you arelike on 南京东路 [Nánjīng dōnglù], a little bit. With
different shops and a lot of Chinese. Yeah.OF: Nice. So it was quite integrated into
(05:52):
the Peruvian lifestyle, or do you stillfeel that you were a strong minority?
KW (05:58):
I felt a strong association with the Latins. Going to parties, and
the sense of humour that people have here.OF: So now I'm feeling sorry for your
Taiwanese father. It sounds likehe was the minority in your family.
Yeah. OF
life in Shanghai. You are, as you would put it, alight healer. Is that something you've known about
(06:23):
from the start, and you did that from day one?KW: Not at all. I really had no idea
what energy is. So I had no idea of any of thesethings to be like, special. My mom, she tells me
the story. When I was a little baby, I wouldcry and cry, nonstop. And she would take me to
(06:44):
different doctors. And doctors would tell herthat I was fine, there’s nothing wrong with me.
So then she took me to my grandmother, whoused to work with a special way of healing.
She comes from a town where the mostfamous shamans come from in Peru.
(07:05):
Her grandfather was a really famous healer,and people would come from other cities just
to see him. And she did her magical work on me.And after three times, I just stopped crying.
And so, every time I would have something minor,my mum just would take me to my grandmother.
(07:27):
And it was like this with me, with my sister,with my cousins… This, for me, was very natural.
And then I would have, also, my nanny. Here inSouth America, it's very common to have a nanny,
like an 阿姨 [āyí] who lives with you in yourhouse. And my nanny comes from the jungle, very
(07:48):
deep jungle. So if there was anything, she wouldcome with some herbs, and then we would be fine.
OF (07:54):
That’s so interesting to hear, because my background is from a very secular, city lifestyle
in Europe. To hear you so casually talking aboutyour grandparents who had a healer in the family,
that, to me, is so alien. I hear about Peru inthis context quite a lot, you know, with ayahuasca
(08:19):
and shamanistic traditions, what is it about Peru?KW: We have such an old culture with tribes who
are still alive. A lot has been lost, butat the same time, a lot has been passed on
from generations through generations,up until now. Of course, 10 years ago,
(08:40):
some people would call it witchcraft.OF: Right. Right, and I can assume that
your father would have beenvery sceptical in that case.
KW (08:48):
Oh yeah totally, totally. That was one of the many things where my mother and my father
would not agree on. But even though he would notbelieve or understand, he would still let my mum
or my grandmother do this kind of healing to us…OF: …Because he would see the results, right?
(09:08):
Yes, he would see the result! And even though he would see the result, the time when I started
to do this as work, he would actually tell methat if people in China will know what I'm doing,
they would hang me like a witch!OF: Well, let's jump forward, then, to that
(09:29):
time in China. So how did you start doing this?KW: Well, I came to China to study Chinese
for one year, and decided to stay a little bitlonger. First, I was working as an interpreter
for people from South America. So I was travellingaround China helping with the language. And then
(09:49):
after this, I worked for seven years for aninsurance company as an agent. But then things
started to change in the company. You know,I have been really happy for seven years.
And then suddenly, things change, and Istarted to be unhappy. And I was thinking “No,
I cannot live like this”. And this wassomething that pushed me to quit my job.
(10:14):
And I thought “Oh, maybe I can start chargingfor the services I have been doing for free”.
Because I had been doing healing, thehealing that my grandmother used to do on me,
I used to do it on my baby, I used to do it onmy friends' babies. And I started to charge.
It felt very strange at the beginning, tocharge for something I was giving away for
(10:38):
free.OF:
And how do you even know what to charge, right?KW: Yes. Yeah, it was really, really hard. Of
course, I started charging very little. But thenyou realise it's your time, it's your energy,
and it's like going to the doctor. So that'show it started, the service part of my business.
(11:00):
And the product part of my business also wasborn at that time, more or less. It was 2015.
And the pollution was extremely bad. And I wasthinking “How can I clean the air in my house?”
So I started researching, and I found thatof course, plants can clean the air, and also
(11:23):
beeswax candles. That's when I learned thathaving paraffin candles in your house can be
even more toxic. So I was trying to find beeswaxcandles in the market. I couldn't find any. I
am a flower remedy practitioner, so I thought“Mmm hmm, why don't I create a beeswax candle,
and I could infuse them with my flower remedies”.
(11:46):
So I started to research into beeswax, I startedto learn how to make candles. Finally, I found
a provider. There are so many fakes, so many.OF: You bought what you thought was beeswax,
but it wasn't beeswax?KW: Yes. I mean, they sell it as beeswax.
You see it's yellow, but it's yellow because theyput dye in there. So I found the right provider,
(12:12):
the right beeswax, and then that's how itstarted. Then people started to find me;
I started to be interviewed for magazines; Istarted to be asked to go on talks to tell people
what I do… because it's very special and veryfulfilling to do something that you really love.
OF (12:33):
Great. And you mentioned, then, that there was the product side - that’s a great example,
with the beeswax - what about the serviceside? What kind of service do you provide?
KW (12:44):
I am a sound healer, so I work with singing bowls. I work with flower remedies, which is the
energy of the flower. We believe - and alsoin Chinese medicine, they believe - that all
illnesses come from emotions that have not beenprocessed well. So flower remedies help with this.
OF (13:04):
Can I ask you, then, for an example? Like, which particular emotion
is healed by which particular flower?KW: The plants that I work with, they are orchids.
And orchids are the most evolved flowers on theplanet. I will create blends of different flowers.
Maybe you're anxious about something specific,so it will be not the same blend for you than for
(13:27):
someone else. Also, I work very intuitively.OF: Interesting. And what other services?
KW (13:33):
Ah yeah. So, I do practice what my grandmother taught me, which is ‘aura cleansing’. And for the
aura cleansing, I use an egg, a raw egg.OF: A raw egg?
Yeah. OF
So it’s the raw egg. And the client lays down in a massage bed, but I don't do any massage.
(13:59):
I pass this egg around the aura of a person.And at the end of the session, I break the egg
in a glass of water. And you can see differentkinds of shapes. And we are both able to see if
the aura was clean, or if there was something bad- like bad energy, or stuck energy - in your aura.
(14:22):
My grandmother, she had two cases where somebodywas really sick. And when she broke the egg,
the egg had a lot of blood inside. Andthe other one was… the egg almost cooked!
The energy of the person was really bad.OF: Wow.
And have you had similar experiences yourself inChina? Like, what were the more extreme situations
(14:46):
that you've been in, with the aura cleansing?KW: The egg just breaks in my hand,
because the energy of the person is so strong,and so bad, that the egg will just break
as soon as it close in contact with the person.OF: Wow, interesting. And your clients,
are they also other Latin Americans whounderstand this? Or are there people who
(15:08):
you are introducing it to, for the first time?KW: The last year, there has been, maybe, a growth
of Chinese people coming to see me. And I findit fascinating, because people who come to me,
it's people who are well-educated, and theyjust realise that money is not everything.
OF (15:29):
That's great. And so how do you feel that you have changed through this process?
KW (15:34):
I think the more you do it, the more confident you get.
OF (15:37):
Right, because your story was a strange one, you had this family background,
you didn't really understand it, you didn'treally pursue it. And then suddenly, you sort
of fell into it. And so I guess, was part ofyour development just realising “Oh, wait,
I can do this. I'm not just pretending.”KW: Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Do you see that there is now more acceptance of this kind of thing, or do you think,
(16:02):
in general, your father is still correct?KW: No, I think, not just in China,
but in general, humanity is openingup to this kind of spiritual work.
People are using herbs, people are using crystals,people believe in chakras. So this is all a little
step, you know, for people’s spirituality.OF: Yeah, I think you are describing my
(16:24):
own personal development. Because I am asceptic, but the more that I expose myself
to this kind of thinking, and to people whopractice it, the more I am open-minded to it,
you know. And I've done some sound therapywith those Tibetan bowls. And I've got a friend
who does Reiki healing. And I've done some crystalhealing in the past. And each time, I do feel the
(16:49):
energy, and I don't know exactly what's goingon, I can't articulate how it felt. But I could
feel that there was something happening for sure.KW: Yes, yes. And I think that's the first step
for people to start to understand, and awaken.OF: Thank you so much, Katherine.
KW (17:07):
Thank you so much, Oscar. I'm really happy to share my story with you.
OF (17:12):
Let's move on to Part 2. KW
[Part 2]OF: OK, let's jump in. Question
one. What is your favourite China related fact?KW: There is a temple of my ancestors somewhere
in 广东 [Guǎngdōng]. So for me,that was very interesting.
(17:32):
And it's specifically your clan? KW
Wongs, they all come only from one line.OF: OK, Well, when you come back to China,
you should make your pilgrimageto 广东 [Guǎngdōng] in that case.
KW (17:46):
That's really interesting. OF
do you have a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?KW: Yes, it's 旅途愉快 [Lǚtú yúkuài], which is ‘Have
safe travels’. The first time I heard it, I foundit funny. And then I kept using it, not knowing
what it means. Until I asked my father what itmeans. And yeah, it makes sense. I love to travel.
OF (18:06):
Nice. And did you learn that in Peru? Or did you learn that in China?
KW (18:11):
I learned that in China. OF
taught that to you when you were small?KW: No, actually, he never talked to
us in Chinese when we were small.OF: Really? Is he happy now that you
can speak some Chinese?KW: He’s proud.
OF (18:24):
Ah. What is your favourite destination within China?
KW (18:27):
Yunnan. It is beautiful. I feel the energies in that place are really pure and amazing.
OF (18:34):
Next question. If you left China, what would you miss the most,
and what would you miss the least? Now, you'vebeen outside of China for, is it nine months?
KW (18:43):
Yeah. OF
do you actually miss the most, and the least?KW: Online shopping. It's mostly for groceries.
It is so easy. So efficient. You get yourgroceries within one hour. Here, in Peru,
there are no such things. So when the pandemicstarted here, my mother had to call the lady
(19:06):
from the little shop to ask “Do you have this? Doyou have that?” And if she would say “Yes, I have
this bread”. “Okay, which brand?” “I have thisbrand, this brand”. So it would take a long time?
OF (19:19):
Of course. Wow, a great example. And what about the thing that you miss the least?
KW (19:24):
The fast pace of life? Because when you're there you feel everything is working so fast,
and you're sucked in this energy of going fast.OF: Yeah, there's no escape. Is there anything
about life in China that still surprises you?KW: Change. Change, in terms of how fast there's
(19:47):
buildings appearing, or disappearing.In my street, in two or three months,
they are, like, four coffee shops. New.OF: Yeah. So it's gonna be a surprise when
you come back to China, to see what'sgoing to be on your street now, right?
Yes. OF
where is your favourite place to goout, to eat or drink or hang out?
(20:10):
When I'm with my family, we love to go to Lost Bakery for breakfast. And when it's just me,
I love to go to Cafe On Air for work. It's avery cute hidden coffee shop. It's so peaceful.
OF (20:25):
OK, what is the best or worst purchase you have made in China?
KW (20:29):
Definitely my 30 kilos of fake beeswax was the worst purchase I've ever made.
OF (20:36):
30 kilos. KW
They sent me a sample. I approved the sample.And when they sent me all these blocks
of beeswax, it was fake. They changed it.OF: When you're starting a business, you can't
afford to lose that much, right?KW: No.
Wow. KW
Yeah. And how about the best, is there a nice story after that terrible story?
KW (20:59):
Yeah, I found a good provider, who I have stuck with until today.
OF (21:03):
Yeah. KW
OK, now pick up your phone, and send me your favourite WeChat sticker.
KW (21:10):
OK. OF
received it, from Peru to Shanghai.KW:
Yeah, I love this sticker because itdescribes the feeling of excitement
and happiness that I have sometimes.OF: And so what is this from? Do you
have… It looks like it's from a movie.Can you explain what they're wearing?
(21:33):
They look like ballerinas. From the 70s. OF
one right at the back. And she isconcentrating very, very carefully.
I didn't see her. OF
What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?KW: I've stopped going to KTV for so long.
But, at home, John Legend (21:58):
“All Of Me”. OF
song really.KW: Yes.
OF (22:07):
Are you a romantic Latin type after all? KW
And finally, what other China related mediaor sources of information do you rely on?
KW (22:19):
I am not a person who reads news. But if I read something, it will be
from 'The Shanghaiist’. They have funny news.OF: Yeah, I don't think anyone's mentioned The
Shanghaiist before. Yeah, they do a good job.KW: Yeah, very entertaining.
OK (22:35):
Well, thank you so much, Katherine, you've also been very entertaining. Before I say goodbye,
tell me who out of everyone you knowin China, would you recommend that I
interview for Season 3 of mosaic of China?KW: Definitely Alizée. She is a very special
person. She's the founder of Zero Waste Shanghai.
OF (22:55):
Zero Waste, OK. KW
I think, everywhere in the world right now.OF: Yeah. Well, Katherine, it's been a pleasure.
Thank you for calling me all the way from Peru.I think it's close to midnight now where you are,
so I will let you go to bed.KW: Thank you. I'm very grateful.
[Outro]OF:
(23:18):
So, the most important news is that Katherineis back in China! She arrived in November,
got out of quarantine in December, and hassettled back into Shanghai life in January,
just in time for this episode to be released.Congratulations Katherine. The second most
important thing is to play the excerpts fromthe PREMIUM version of today's episode, and
(23:38):
I promise if you listen to the full version, youwill never look at a guinea pig in the same way.
[Clip 1]KW: I think I've had the
longest quarantine in the world.[Clip 2]
And then just as we were talking about your father, in he comes!
[Clip 3]KW:
So the guinea pig was used as an X-ray.[Clip 4]
I’m nervous now. Please don't draw the death card.
KW (23:59):
Breathe deeply. [End of Audio Clips]
OF (24:04):
And the third most important thing is that we
didn't actually mention thename of Katherine’s brand,
which is ‘The Andean Apothecary’. You can find outall about it at https://theandeanapothecay.com.
For help with how to spell that, just findus on social media, we're on @mosaicofchina
on Instagram, Facebook and WeChat. And it'sthere where you can also find lots of images to
accompany today's show (24:25):
there's some of Arequipa, the city in southern Peru where Katherine was
stuck for 11 months; her favourite WeChat sticker,the dancers with the big... personalities; photos
of her family, including her younger sister; andone of her nanny in her hometown in the Amazon
carrying a whole termite mound home to feed toher chickens. 'Cafe On Air' is there as one of
(24:49):
her favourite hangouts, which incidentally wasalso the favourite hangout of Lissanthea Taylor,
the pain management expert from Season01 Episode 28; Katherine's favourite
China-related information source, Shanghaiist,which actually appears to be on hiatus right now;
and a graphic on 旅途愉快 [lǚtú yúkuài] which doestranslate into English as 'happy travels,' but
(25:11):
I’m much more likely to use the Frenchphrase 'Bon Voyage'. Maybe that’s because
we don't really have a good phrase for this inEnglish, or maybe it's because I’m pretentious.
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs, with artworkby Denny Newell. Coming up is the short version of
my catch-up interview with Angie Wu from Episode18 of Season 01, and I'll see you again next week.
(25:41):
[Catch-Up Interview]OF: Hello, Angie.
AW (25:45):
Hello. It's actually really nice to see you again. It’s been a while.
OF (25:47):
Yeah. I wanted to have this chance to catch up with you, and for us to see what
has happened to you since we did our recording.AW: So I went to Boracay on the 17th of January
for a kitesurfing trip, like we usually dowith my ex boyfriend - now the ex boyfriend,
he was my boyfriend still at that time- so we landed on the 17th of January,
(26:09):
we were supposed to stay two weeks. ThenCOVID happened, so I stayed for two months.
Oh, wow. AW
was expiring - his Chinese visa - I knew that, soI told him “Let's go back to China” because it’s…
China is safe already, around the middleof February. And he was like “No, no, no,
it's too dangerous.” He decided to stay, andthere's no way you can convince him otherwise,
(26:32):
when he's convinced of something you cannot changehim. So what happened is that… I went alone.
OK. And then now, here you are. So it's now been since March that you've been in Shanghai,
what's been your life like since then?AW: I got out of ‘jail’ on the 11th of April,
I moved back to my apartment. And my lifebegan. And this has been the best year
(26:55):
of my life in Shanghai, for the last 15 years.OF: Oh, wow.
AW (26:58):
Because I finally had a break. My business was slow.
For the first time in 15 years, I had a chanceto relax, meet my friends, eat on time, sleep
enough. I was having the best time of my life.OF: Did you create a new collection?
I have really amazing collections coming up. But they're not my priority anymore. Work is not
(27:24):
my priority anymore. I reset my priority of life.OF: Interesting. I think that's what I can
visibly see with you. You have alightness about you, which perhaps
I didn't see last year. Ihope that people listening
will also see the light at the end of thetunnel that, you know, that obviously you have
come out of it a completely different person.AW: I really feel compassionate and sorry about
(27:47):
all the people in the world. Because my parentsare stuck in Montreal, they are going through a
second lockdown, alone. So we are really lucky inShanghai, and there's not one day I’m not grateful
for everything that's happening in my life. Butat the same time, I do feel sorry for the world
and hope everyone can get something good out ofthis experience, something that enlightens them,
(28:12):
or something that makes them pursue a better life.OF: Yes. Thank you so much, Angie,
it's been great to see you again.AW: Thank you very much for having me.
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