March 8, 2021 • 37 mins
If there's one animal that is synonymous with the Tibetan Plateau, it's the yak. It has historically played a huge role in the diet, culture, and livelihood of the nomadic people of Tibet, and this symbiotic relationship endures until today. My guest today is Danmajyid, who represents a new generation of Tibetans that are worldly, tech-savvy, and yet also know how to honour past traditions. Danma tells the story of how her social enterprise YAKMA is turning nutrient-rich yak milk into high-end beauty products, and the effect this is having on her Tibetan hometown. The episode also includes a catch-up interview with Gina Li from Season 01 Episode 06. (https://mosaicofchina.com/season-01-episode-06-gina-li). Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:43 - Part 1 20:18 - Part 2 27:44 - Outro 30:26 - Catch-Up Interview Subscribe to the PREMIUM version, see the visuals, and/or follow the full transcript for this episode at https://mosaicofchina.com/season-02-episode-10-danma-jyid. Join the community on Instagram (https://instagram.com/oscology), LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/mosaicofchina), Facebook (https://facebook.com/mosaicofchina) or WeChat (https://mosaicofchina.com/wechat).
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
[Trailer]OF: So if you meet another Tibetan from a
different part, can you communicate?DJ: No.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
From Belgian beer last week, we switch today toTibetan yaks, with today’s guest Danmajyid. You’ll
(00:25):
hear how I forced Danma to become an unofficialspokesman for all things Tibetan in this episode,
so a big thanks in advance to Danma for managingthis so well. Also in advance, keep your ears
open for when Danma mentions Shanghai 交通[Jiāotōng] University in our conversation,
because that’s the same universitywhere I’m currently studying my Masters.
(00:45):
I mention this because I was complaining aboutwriting my thesis in the intro to Episode 08 of
Season 02 with Jovana Zhang, and a few of you havesince then been asking about what I’m studying.
Well it’s called a Masters of Modern ChineseStudies, which is the only course of its kind
in China. It’s a blended syllabus incorporatinghistory, philosophy, literature and linguistics;
(01:08):
it’s taught in English; it includes Chineselanguage lessons; and my history professor
Chang Chihyun, who featured in Episode 03of the Season, has just let me know that the
deadline for scholarship applications forthe next intake is the end of March 2021.
So I figured I’d do some free advertising,since I’ve really enjoyed the course. If you’re
interested, you can find more details by justsearching anywhere for Shanghai 交通 [Jiāotōng]
(01:31):
University Masters of Modern Chinese Studies,and I’d love to know if anyone out there applies.
OK enough of that, let’s getback on track and talk about yak!
[Part 1]OF:
Well, thank you so much, Danmajyid. Danma, you arefrom a very interesting part of China, aren't you?
DJ (01:51):
Yes. So I'm from northwestern part of China, 甘肃 [Gānsù] Province, a Tibetan area in 甘肃 [Gānsù],
two hours away from 兰州 [Lánzhōu] city. So it'skind of pretty close to 甘南 [Gānnán] Prefecture.
Yeah, it's just a very nomadic area.OF: Well, before we move on to our conversation
today, tell me… What object did you bring thatin some way describes your life here in China?
(02:16):
Well, I brought my yak milk soaps. This is the business I'm working on at the moment.
OF (02:23):
OK, well let me have a look. OK, so you've got three different soaps here, right?
DJ (02:29):
Yes. OF
Yeah. OF
So these soaps are made in my hometown in 甘肃 [Gānsù], the Tibetan area. And we use
yak milk to make these products.OF: Right.
And the purpose of using yak milk is like, yak milk is a main consumption in Tibetan
(02:54):
life. Most families in the localarea are, like, herding animals.
So this yak milk is very readily available.So that's why we also support local women
to make yak milk soaps, by using yak milk. Yeah.OF: The yak is just this animal that's so
(03:15):
emblematic of the Tibetan Plateau, right?DJ: Yeah. When I was little, like,
my grandparents were herding livestock,and especially yaks. And we have sheep just
running around. And the environment is so,like, open grassland. All yaks have names.
OF (03:34):
Oh really? DJ
we also, like… Each family, they use differentcolours to make earrings for yaks. So they can
distinguish, like, which belong to which family.OF: OK, you know I'm gonna have to ask you for
a photo of a yak wearing earrings now.DJ: Yes. I can provide one. Yeah, yeah.
(03:55):
OK. These are obviously the yaks that are being herded,
are their wild yaks too?DJ: Yes, they are some, not a lot.
Families are willing to offer yaks for themountain guards. So they are free. It basically
says, like, they belong to the mountain gods.OF: Right.
DJ (04:13):
So they can be anywhere they want to be, yeah. OF
like how many yaks did your family have?DJ: There used to be, like, around 200 yaks.
And recently they tried to reduce this,and I think like also because of grassland
over-grazing, and people agreed to minimisethe number of livestock. They think it's very
(04:39):
important to protect the environment as well.OF: Plus, it's very hard to remember 200 names.
Yes. Yeah, it was true, like very hard to remember which one you lost. You know,
too many. These days they just, like, take photosof each yak. And then they just… When they check,
they say “Oh yeah, this one is lost”, and,you know, they remember it. And also the
(05:00):
good this is like, WeChat is so popular, and theyhave all these groups, and when they lost a yak,
they just send the photo, and if otherpeople see it, they will just tell you.
OF (05:11):
Oh right. DJ
“I saw your yak down in that valley”. DJ
How funny. So, talking about, then, the produce. So anyone who's been anywhere near
the Tibetan Plateau will know about yak milk.It is ubiquitous, right? It's everywhere.
DJ (05:25):
Mm-hm, yeah. OF
yak milk play in your life up in 甘肃 [Gānsù]?DJ: Well, yak milk is our main consumption. So we
drink yak milk tea a lot, when people visit or yougo to someone's house, like they always offer you
butter tea and yak milk tea. So, I think yakmilk tea plays a very important role, because
(05:49):
that’s how the community builds connections, andspends time with each other. But these days, like
you know, people drink tea, butlike, don't talk much. You know,
because they are playing on the phone a lot. Youknow, it's just the change happens enormously.
OF (06:05):
Is there a market for Yak milk in China? DJ
is really, really superior to other milks.I mean, I also did all kinds of research,
and even compared with camel milk, it’sso interesting because Yak milk has like
(06:26):
all kinds of nutritions like there are so many. Weused to use yak milk as face cream, because like,
yak milk is so rich, and very creamy, very goodfor the skin. And especially like cracking skin,
they use yak milk to heal it. That's why like,we think yak milk is really good for soap.
(06:47):
So how does that process work? Is that something which is a traditional thing that
you used to do before? Or is it entirely new?DJ: For the community, this is a very entirely new
idea. So this skill, is like, we also got from anAmerican couple. They have a soap project. So they
(07:08):
always teach around the world about making soaps.OF: Right.
DJ (07:12):
So I emailed them, and then explained myself, and they came. So,
they spent a month in the village and taughtwomen how to make soaps. All of these soaps,
we try to use local resources, like a local herbsand finding alternative resources to use in soap,
(07:33):
rather than just buy from Taobao, yeah.OF: Yes. So what actually is the
setup that you have in the village?DJ: There are not many big machines,
I mean, it's still like kind of a medium level.The purpose of this business is, we want to
create more jobs for people. So that's whywe don't have big machines to replace people.
OF (07:55):
Right. DJ:
Just the blenders to mix in the oils, andwe also have a soap cutter. So it's just
all manual operated machines. YeahOF: And, like, did you have to build
a building? Or what was it, where is it?DJ: We started the business just at home, and
(08:18):
then we registered the business, and lotsof stuff like happened, you know. And I feel
like I wasn’t able to sell actually. In 2015, westarted like, the kind of experiment stage. And
we were like, not that confident, we felt like oursoaps are not ready for sale. Like, we would keep
(08:38):
doing and doing, but like, you know, the womenstarted losing interest. And that was a big,
difficult time. You know, local level people aremore realistic, it's not always a good way to
really talk about big ideas. You know, like “Youhave a mission” and all this, it doesn't work, you
(08:58):
know. And I ended up having two women who stayedwith me. But it's a great way to be creative,
like because soaps, you can make differentcolours, different shapes, you know whatever they
would like to do. You know, it's just like, theyreally enjoy that. That's why they wanted to stay.
So in 2016, three of us were like, started fromselling to friends. You know, some friends running
(09:26):
businesses in Lhasa, so we asked them whether theycan take our soaps, and then they started to sell,
and we started to gain a little confidence inthat. Actually we were like thinking too much
about the soap, not thinking about the sales,you know. But after selling that we felt like
(09:46):
“Oh, actually, you know, some soaps we like, butnot necessarily the customer likes”, especially
like colours and flavours. It was reallyinteresting, some soaps we really didn't like,
but the customers liked a lot.OF: For example?
DJ (10:02):
So we had a pink clay - a soap made with pink clay - so we feel like “Oh, it's not that
soft”. But people really liked it because it wasreally good for scrubbing dead skin. And also
detoxing, you know, clay is really good fordetoxing. Also we used lavender. We felt not
(10:25):
that happy about lavender, but people likedit, you know, so we had to continue to make
it. So yeah, it's so interesting. And that'swhy, like, we slowly got back on track.
OF (10:37):
Right. DJ
And then today, like, what is the setup now? DJ
to a primary school in the village.OF: Oh, the primary school.
DJ (10:49):
Yeah, so the school was run down for many years. So that's why the government
said we can use the space.OF: Nice,
And we want the community to use the space as well.
OF (11:00):
Who is your market? DJ
most are foreigners. But this year, we also wantto focus on the Chinese markets as well. You know,
more Chinese prefer natural products. So that'ssomething that we really want to focus on.
And let's talk about this packaging, because I can see on the packaging that you have
(11:20):
some Tibetan writing as well, which I love. Andthis obviously is the language that is your first
language, right?DJ: Yes.
So tell me about Tibetan language, like does it have any similarities at all to Mandarin?
DJ (11:32):
No similarities. OF
Yeah, yeah, a different language, and there are three main dialects.
Amdo, Khams and Ü-Tsang. I speak the Amdo dialect.OF: OK. And the other two are where?
Khams is in 四川 [Sìchuān] and Ü-Tsang is like in central Tibet.
OF (11:52):
Right, I see. DJ
So if you meet another Tibetan from a different part, can you communicate?
DJ (11:58):
No, sadly. OF
Yeah, people who studied - and who can speak more in an academic way - can understand each
other. But like if we speak in dialects, likeit’s really, really difficult to understand.
Even thought my language is Amdo, when Ispeak like my own dialect from the village,
(12:19):
it’s also hard to understand…OF: The next village?
Other parts of the Amdo area. OF
what's it called?DJ: Daichen.
OF (12:29):
Daichen. DJ
And in terms of other differences you have between different parts of the Tibetan Plateau,
What other differences are there?DJ: Different areas have their own costumes.
In my hometown, like, you know,they have like coral and conch.
Conch? DJ
Like from the sea? DJ
(12:53):
Like, you know, we are far away from the ocean,like, so interesting. You know, especially they
make necklaces. And yeah, so it’s interesting.OF: Right. Because from what I know about that
kind of lifestyle is… Because you were nomadic,you had to carry your valuables with you.
So I'm guessing that if you have somethingmade out of coral from many miles away,
(13:14):
that would be very valuable, right?DJ: Yeah, maybe.
But you don't know. DJ
But here we are in Shanghai. So you're living here now?
DJ (13:22):
Yes. OF
A tough decision. But like, I mean, I like all the opportunities here, especially as a
businesswoman.OF: Right,
because your market would basically be here.DJ: Yes. In Beijing and Shanghai, so it's easy
for me to travel between the cities. And alsolike, I started to make friends in Shanghai, and
(13:48):
I'm kind of well-connected,slowly connected to the community.
OF (13:52):
Yes. DJ
Yes, and I have this idealised image of the plateau with the big sky, and no people.
DJ (14:00):
Yeah. OF
with millions of people. How do you cope?DJ: Well, I have to take a month to recover
every time I come back to Shanghai.OF: Right.
Especially on the subway train, I feel like “Oh, just too many people”.
OF (14:17):
Yeah. DJ
just not that motivated to go out. And itwould take about three weeks to recover
until I feel comfortable to go out.OF: Yeah.
DJ (14:28):
Yeah. I still do my chanting every morning. OF
So, morning chanting like, you know, I have a mantra book. And every morning, I'll do my
chanting. Yeah, wherever I go later, you know,I just did like, automatically just chant, yeah.
OF (14:44):
Well, I love that we have our conversation about today. And then we can talk about your past
and your childhood back in 甘肃 [Gānsù].How did you get to where you are now?
DJ (14:55):
I finished my middle school and then I went to an English training programme in 青海 [Qīnghǎi].
That programme really changed my life.OF: And 青海 [Qīnghǎi], that's the
neighbouring province, right, to 甘肃 [Gānsù]?DJ: Yes. 青海 [Qīnghǎi] Normal University.
That's how I learnt my English.So after that, I graduated from
(15:17):
the programme, then I also worked for differentinternational companies in 香格里拉 [Shangri-La], 成都
[Chéngdū]. Then I applied for university,because I always wanted to do something
different, especially about some subjects thatare hard to find it in China. So that's when I
started looking into overseas universities.I met some Australians in 香格里拉 [Shangri-La]
(15:43):
and they recommended a university forme, and I applied for it, and got in.
OF (15:47):
Great. DJ
So that was when you went to Australia? DJ
And it was when you were in Australia that you did that TED Talk. And that's what
I have seen on YouTube. I think you're tooembarrassed to watch it yourself these days,
right?DJ: Yeah.
But tell me about what I saw on that TED Talk. DJ
(16:08):
project I did in my village. Because thatwas back in 2008, while I was doing my
English training programme at university. In myhometown, winter is really challenging because
all the water is frozen, right.OF: Oh right.
DJ (16:24):
And it’s really hard to get water for people and livestock. They had to
go to different areas to search for water. Mostof the water is just like small rivers from the
spring. Just very unstable in the wintertime.Also, women spent lots of time just carrying
water, fetching water. And I felt likemaybe there is something I can do. To
(16:49):
use pipes to carry the water from thespring all the way to each household,
like there will benefit 60 families, including aprimary school. So that can be about 200 people.
So I wrote a grant proposal, and I was supportedby my teachers at the English training programme.
After a year - it actually took a year to befunded - and surprisingly it was funded by an
(17:15):
exchange programme at 交通 [Jiāotōng] Universityin Shanghai. So, yeah, we got the grant,
you know, a lot of money at that time.But the problem at the beginning was like,
not many people believed me that I can do that.OF: Yeah, because you're pretty young now. Like,
how young would you have been back then?DJ: I was 19. I think probably,
(17:38):
I was too young. And they thought like, howcome I could find that much money, right?
OF (17:46):
I guess - long story short - you made these pipes, right?
DJ (17:49):
Yeah. Yes, so it took two years to complete the project.
OF (17:55):
Oh. DJ
quite a lot. And we we did a really good job.OF: This is while you were still studying?
DJ (18:01):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So every weekend, I would just go home, and check the project.
OF (18:07):
Wow. DJ
local water bureau, they took over the project,and they are looking after the whole project. So
it's pretty good, yeah.OF: Really good.
DJ (18:20):
Yeah, yeah. OF
you being from that village, right?DJ: Uh-huh.
OF (18:24):
That must have been a big risk, right? DJ
as well, because they don't want me to sayanything about that. Because they felt like
I'm giving false promises.OF: Right. So if you come
in saying “Hey guys, I'm going to dothis”. But then if you fail, that… Yes.
DJ (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my parents were very worried about it. Because
people will say it to them, not me. So…OF: They have to be your spokesman, right?
Yes. So that's why my parents were not that happy at that time, yeah.
OF (18:55):
Interesting. DJ
I mean, what is next for you, then? Do you have big projects
with the soap? Or do you have other ideas?DJ: The soap business will continue to grow.
And we also hope, more local women - especiallyyounger ones - can join us like, you know.
But I guess this is part of your project, right? Because you're
empowering the women in your project now.DJ: Yeah. Even like, the soap. We just say,
(19:20):
have financial independence.OF: Yeah.
DJ (19:22):
And we want to say this is, you know, reducing gender inequality, you know.
OF (19:31):
Yeah. DJ
Women can come to the soap production space, theyjust spend time with each other and make soaps,
and automatically, like, their husbandis at home doing most of the housework.
Oh that’s great. DJ
like, not need to really be that clear.You know, it's just like, interconnected.
(19:56):
Yes, it’s very organic. DJ
Because you just create a different situation, and then equality just seeps in, somehow.
DJ (20:04):
Yes, yes. And for the bigger picture, we want to become a natural cosmetic company. Yeah.
OF (20:12):
Well, thank you so much Danma. DJ
Let’s move on to Part 2. DJ
[Part 2]OF: So the 10 questions. Are you ready?
DJ (20:22):
Kind of! I’m sorry. OF
but they're hard.DJ: Yeah.
OF (20:29):
Question 1. What is your favourite China-related fact?
DJ (20:32):
I would say my hometown. That whole area, the region is very famous for
white yaks. So our yaks are all white, and noother Tibetan areas have that. So sometimes they
just try to take so white yaks to their areas.OF: I’ve seen them! I saw a white Yak in northern
(20:58):
Yunnan Province.DJ: Yeah.
OF (20:59):
But that was probably from your area. DJ
and not many Tibetan areas have it.OF: Right.
DJ (21:07):
Yeah. OF
a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?DJ: I would say 四海为家 [sìhǎi wéijiā].
OF (21:14):
OK, 四海 [sìhǎi] is like ‘the four seas’. DJ
like ‘make your home.’OF: OK so ‘four seas like home’?
DJ (21:21):
Wherever you travel to is your home. Because like, I want to be a traveller as well, you know.
And also because of work, I have tolive in Shanghai as my home. That
will make me feel more comfortable to live here.OF: Lovely. When someone asks me “Where is home?”
I don't quite know how to answer. Somaybe I'll just say 四海为家 [sìhǎi wéijiā].
(21:44):
Yes. OF
OF (21:45):
Yes. OF
What is your favourite destination within China?
DJ (21:50):
I really like Lhasa, central Tibet. OF
When I went to Lhasa, I really liked the style, and it made me feel really
connected to the culture. YeahOF: Yeah, I would love to go to Lhasa.
If you left China, what would you miss the
most and what would you miss the least?DJ: I really missed Tibetan food. Momo.
OF (22:14):
What’s that? DJ
to dumplings, but we also have, like,steamed momo. Yeah, it's really special.
So like, 馒头 [mántou], is it? DJ
you have fillings.OF: Like what? Like…
DJ (22:28):
Yak meat. OF
Yeah, yak meat and herbs sometimes, yeah. OF
Yeah. OF
Snow. OF
Yeah, just, yeah. OF
were growing up then, what was it really like?DJ: We got heavy snow, and sometimes it would
(22:52):
take a week just to melt. And then itkeeps snowing, sometimes, like a month.
OF (22:58):
Yeah. DJ
road is all blocked. And, yeah.OF: Next question. Is there anything that
still surprises you about modern life in China?DJ: Yes, a lot. In my village people are following
all kinds of social media. They also buy all kindsof stuff, like from Taobao and 拼多多 [Pīnduōduō],
(23:19):
you know, all these apps. And the 快递 [kuàidì]delivery person would send stuff to us,
like to our soap production space, because thatis more convenient for them, rather than just
go to each household. Because in the nomadic area,they all live far away from each other, right?
Right. DJ
a collection area. So sometimes the families wouldask us to bring stuff to them, you know “Oh, bring
(23:47):
my parcel, bring my parcel” you know. So yeah.OF: Right, because I guess that is the most
prominent address in the whole village, right?DJ: No, the delivery person is lazy.
Yeah, right. DJ
he doesn't want to travel to each household.He would just drop everything at our place.
Yes. Where is your favourite place to go, to eat or drink or hang out? And I guess it could
be here in Shanghai, or it could be in yourhometown, or anywhere you've lived in China.
DJ (24:11):
I really like Charu in 成都 [Chéngdū]. OF
So Charu is a Tibetan co-working space in 成都 [Chéngdū]. If you ever go there, just visit them.
OF (24:23):
Yeah. DJ
because like you often see people youknow, just run into people you know. And
it's just nice to hang outand have a cup of coffee.
Nice. DJ
Oh yak milk coffee. DJ
How does that taste? DJ
Yeah, I don’t believe you. DJ
(24:45):
if you ever go to 成都 [Chéngdū].OF: OK.
DJ (24:46):
Probably I'm so used to yak milk, yeah. OF
you have recently made in China?DJ: Well, I bought a jacket, and
the colour was not right, quite differentfrom the picture. I tried to return it back,
(25:08):
and the guy said “Oh, you just chosethis colour”. And then I put a comment,
I said “The colour is quite differentfrom the actual picture”. And then the
guy replied to me immediately, he said “Deleteyour comment, and I will let you return it back.”
OF (25:28):
So did you do that? DJ
took off the tag, so yeah.OF: So now you have that jacket still?
DJ (25:36):
Yes. It's a big lesson. OF
Yeah. OF
sticker? OK, I'm having a look now. Cute.DJ: I sent like, a little happy monk.
OF (25:52):
Oh, he's a Buddhist monk. DJ
Of course he is, I should have got that by the clothing. That's
nice. What’s your go-to song to sing at KTV?DJ: I haven't been to KTV for so many years.
Maybe it's because you don't drink alcohol, is that right?
DJ (26:09):
Yes, that’s probably it. OF
yak milk, you'll get some kind of high.DJ: Hopefully.
OF (26:17):
And finally, what other China-related media or sources of information do you rely on?
DJ (26:24):
I mean, WeChat is the big main source for me. I use it a lot. But I also like… WeChat recently
has channels. I really like that, because Ifeel like if my WeChat friends like something,
then I can also receive the similar feed.OF: Right.
(26:45):
So that's so interesting. OF
Well, thank you so much, Danma.DJ: Thank you.
OF (26:51):
Just having had this conversation, I can tell how, in Shanghai you're a certain
version of yourself, and then when yougo home, you're a certain version, right?
DJ (26:58):
Yes, yes. OF
out of everyone you know in China, whowould you recommend that I interview for
the next season of Mosaic of China?DJ: I would highly recommend Dorjee.
OF (27:11):
Oh Dorjee. DJ
he runs another social enterprise, in青海 [Qīnghǎi], 西宁 [Xīníng]. So he's also
like a community leader. And he does all kindsof work that really connects to his community. So
I really want him to be on your programme.OF: Wonderful. Well, I can't wait to meet him.
(27:35):
And does he live there, or doeshe come to Shanghai as well?
DJ (27:37):
He lives in 青海 [Qīnghǎi], OF
Yeah. OF
thank you so much, Danma.DJ: Thank you.
[Outro]OF:
Well I still haven’t been to Lhasasince recording this episode with Danma,
but I have been to 甘肃 [Gānsù], and I highlyrecommend it. We timed it a little late,
and by the time we reached the Tibetan partin the south, it had become unseasonably cold,
(28:00):
so we didn’t stay there long enough unfortunately.But anyway, go to the transcript of this episode
on mosaicofchina.com, where I’ll post a link tothe video we made there, and I’ll see if there’s
a way I can also share it on Facebook and WeChat.You’ll also be able to find all the other images
there that Danma shared with me, including photosof her family, the costumes from her village,
(28:22):
the white yaks wearing earrings, and of course theprocess of making the soaps. To order the soaps
internationally, go to yakmybody.com, and in Chinathere’s a WeChat mini-program which I’ll post too,
where the whole store has been discounted by 9%on all purchases made by March 19th 2021. Just
(28:42):
place your order there, and the discountwill appear automatically upon checkout.
As with every episode this season, there’san extra 10-15 minutes of content if you
subscribe to the Patreon page, hereare a few clips from today’s episode…
[Clip 1]DJ: I lived in the tents when I was little like,
But now people think tents are too inconvenient.[Clip 2]
(29:02):
The children are raised by community members, or grandparents.
[Clip 3]DJ: We use juniper to, like,
have that purification ceremony.[Clip 4]
OF (29:13):
They also wanted to have modern conveniences themselves, right?
DJ (29:16):
Yes. Yeah, yeah, conflict. OF
[Clip 5]DJ: Every season, you move to a new place,
you have different neighbours.[End of Audio Clips]
Danma represents the first tile in the Mosaicof China who is from one of the 55 officially
recognised ethnic minorities in China, sointerviewing her made me realise that there’s
still such a lot of diversity to uncover infuture series. I also really appreciated having an
(29:42):
episode with a heavy focus on one animal, the yak.It reminds me of one of the most popular episodes
from last season, which was Episode 14 with EmilyMadge, who talked about her work in transporting a
couple of beluga whales from an aquarium inChina to a semi-wild sanctuary in Iceland.
So be sure to check out thatepisode if you haven’t heard it yet.
(30:03):
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs,with artwork by Denny Newell.
After the credits there’s a catch-up chatwith Gina Li from Season 01 Episode 06,
who also hails from Gansu Province.And I’ll be back again next week.
[Catch-Up Interview]OF:
(30:28):
Hello, Gina.GL: Hello, you.
OF (30:30):
You make me smile whenever I see you, which has…
GL (30:32):
Never changed. OF
of the people from Season 01 who, like me, hasbeen stuck here in Shanghai most of the time.
Exactly. I think probably over a year already. OF
Yeah. OF
yeah. So I have actually seen you quite a fewtimes, especially just on the street, randomly.
You are everywhere. I just see you everywhere. Whenever I was like
(30:54):
“Am I gonna see Oscar?” Yeah, here you go.OF: Yes. Well, the reason I brought you in
today especially…GL: Yeah
OF (31:00):
…Is to record this little update chat. GL
So we did our original recording, gosh it must be now almost two years ago.
We obviously had the COVID situation.GL: Yes.
But your life was changing even before that, wasn't it?
GL (31:13):
Exactly. Like, after we recorded, I was selected to be a delegate Chinese innovator,
to represent China, go to APEC. I went to Chile,I have seen a lot of people from around the world.
It’s the Asia Pacific Economy Conference, it’smeant to be the 21 countries from around the Asian
Pacific. The really interesting thing is, thereare certain bits of, like, political influence
(31:40):
of - you know, like certain countries versus China- there were some different opinions. So there
were very blunt questions, just asking varioussensitive questions that you try not to answer.
And also, yeah, like, it's just the totalatmosphere started to make you review whether…
(32:03):
Do people care that you’re from China, ordo people care about who you are. Yeah.
OF (32:08):
Right. So what I'm hearing is, it wasn't as welcoming as you would have wanted. You
were sort of questioned, not about yourbusiness, not about your innovation,
but more about you as representing China, right?GL: Exactly. Like, no one even bothered… Like for
three days, people didn't remember my name. Sothat made me reflect a lot on the business I did,
(32:29):
the career planning I had, and it's justall of a sudden become a question called:
“Me and myself (32:33):
are they aligned?” Like, I had never thought about that.
OF (32:39):
Well maybe I should, at this point, introduce what you were doing, for people who did not hear
your episode.GL: Yeah.
So at that time, you were the CEO of a product innovation company.
GL (32:50):
Yes. OF
things you did, it was things like a telescope,and things like… a new way of doing candy floss…
…Like robotics and delivery systems, things where I was like,
“I'm gonna change a lot of things”.OF: Right.
Yeah. But I think because of the APEC, that was the first time in my life,
I thought what other thing could I do to benefitmyself? So after Chile, I did sit down with my
(33:15):
partner and my investors - or the advisors - totell them, maybe it's time to make a change. And
I didn't know where the change would go. But it'sdefinitely not going to be the same direction. So
there were different opinions, but I was quitelucky, my business partner was very supportive.
And he understood that for years, I'd been working20 hours in the office, never thought about
(33:37):
having my own life, I barely see friends. Andquickly - just long story short - we decided to
close the company. And after that, there wasa period of time I tried different companies.
So, like a big update is, I got assigned withone of the very amazing innovation firms here,
(33:59):
it’s called ?What If!OF: ?What If!, right?
Yes. ?What If! OF
Really? OF
innovation part of Accenture, right?GL: Yes. It’s a really great team.
And then after battling through the year, there'ssomething I really want to dedicate work on. And,
let's say, heal the past. Andthen really open up a new future.
OF (34:19):
Ooh. GL
Yeah. And this reminds me of our episode as well, because when we talked on that episode,
the first five minutes straight was you talkingabout how you had got to the journey of becoming
an innovation CEO.GL: Yeah.
And you had already gone through many reinventions. So I'm almost not surprised that
(34:42):
you were about ready to do another reinvention.GL: I'm like, I think this thing evolved.
It started to work even faster. Like, I rebuilta new routine, I got up early, I start work
early and go to the gym, I adjusted my diet.I realised there are so many things in life,
you gain, you lose, there are so many problemsand issues you have to face, and you’re struggling
(35:07):
when the time happens. But there's nothing betterthan you feel you still have yourself. That is
amazing. It's more amazing than being chosento represent a country to go to a conference.
Yes, isn’t it funny. And I think many people during COVID have gone through a similar
transformation, where they thought… the thingsthat you really thought were important before…
GL (35:28):
Yeah. OF
no, your health, your family, your friends, yourconnections, those are what's important, right?
Yes. And I was writing the review of 2020. And the interesting thing is, I don't remember any of
the bad times. I don't remember any of the dayswhere I was struggling and didn't know what to do.
All I remember were the days when friends came tomy house to support me, because they didn’t want
(35:50):
me to stay by myself. I remember seeing you on thestreet, I was just laughing and giving you a hug.
Everything I remember is happiness.OF: Yeah. I think we are wired to not
think about the troubles of the past. It's beensuch an interesting period. And most people have
gone through some kind of change.GL: Yeah
OF (36:08):
But yours is quite dramatic. GL
Um, so just to wrap up this conversation, the person who you recommended in the end couldn't
be part of the podcast.GL: Yes, yes.
But I found a really good replacement. I think you'll be happy with who we found.
GL (36:25):
Yes. OF
compensation at the end of that episode.GL: Oh, wow.
OF (36:30):
So you will have some kind of connection with Season 02, and I hope that you and I
will also stay in touch in the future.GL: For sure, for sure. Let's do it.
[Trailer]OF: So if you meet another Tibetan from a
different part, can you communicate?DJ: No.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I’m your host, Oscar Fuchs.
From Belgian beer last week, we switch today toTibetan yaks, with today’s guest Danmajyid. You’ll
(00:25):
hear how I forced Danma to become an unofficialspokesman for all things Tibetan in this episode,
so a big thanks in advance to Danma for managingthis so well. Also in advance, keep your ears
open for when Danma mentions Shanghai 交通[Jiāotōng] University in our conversation,
because that’s the same universitywhere I’m currently studying my Masters.
(00:45):
I mention this because I was complaining aboutwriting my thesis in the intro to Episode 08 of
Season 02 with Jovana Zhang, and a few of you havesince then been asking about what I’m studying.
Well it’s called a Masters of Modern ChineseStudies, which is the only course of its kind
in China. It’s a blended syllabus incorporatinghistory, philosophy, literature and linguistics;
(01:08):
it’s taught in English; it includes Chineselanguage lessons; and my history professor
Chang Chihyun, who featured in Episode 03of the Season, has just let me know that the
deadline for scholarship applications forthe next intake is the end of March 2021.
So I figured I’d do some free advertising,since I’ve really enjoyed the course. If you’re
interested, you can find more details by justsearching anywhere for Shanghai 交通 [Jiāotōng]
(01:31):
University Masters of Modern Chinese Studies,and I’d love to know if anyone out there applies.
OK enough of that, let’s getback on track and talk about yak!
[Part 1]OF:
Well, thank you so much, Danmajyid. Danma, you arefrom a very interesting part of China, aren't you?
DJ (01:51):
Yes. So I'm from northwestern part of China, 甘肃 [Gānsù] Province, a Tibetan area in 甘肃 [Gānsù],
two hours away from 兰州 [Lánzhōu] city. So it'skind of pretty close to 甘南 [Gānnán] Prefecture.
Yeah, it's just a very nomadic area.OF: Well, before we move on to our conversation
today, tell me… What object did you bring thatin some way describes your life here in China?
(02:16):
Well, I brought my yak milk soaps. This is the business I'm working on at the moment.
OF (02:23):
OK, well let me have a look. OK, so you've got three different soaps here, right?
DJ (02:29):
Yes. OF
Yeah. OF
So these soaps are made in my hometown in 甘肃 [Gānsù], the Tibetan area. And we use
yak milk to make these products.OF: Right.
And the purpose of using yak milk is like, yak milk is a main consumption in Tibetan
(02:54):
life. Most families in the localarea are, like, herding animals.
So this yak milk is very readily available.So that's why we also support local women
to make yak milk soaps, by using yak milk. Yeah.OF: The yak is just this animal that's so
(03:15):
emblematic of the Tibetan Plateau, right?DJ: Yeah. When I was little, like,
my grandparents were herding livestock,and especially yaks. And we have sheep just
running around. And the environment is so,like, open grassland. All yaks have names.
OF (03:34):
Oh really? DJ
we also, like… Each family, they use differentcolours to make earrings for yaks. So they can
distinguish, like, which belong to which family.OF: OK, you know I'm gonna have to ask you for
a photo of a yak wearing earrings now.DJ: Yes. I can provide one. Yeah, yeah.
(03:55):
OK. These are obviously the yaks that are being herded,
are their wild yaks too?DJ: Yes, they are some, not a lot.
Families are willing to offer yaks for themountain guards. So they are free. It basically
says, like, they belong to the mountain gods.OF: Right.
DJ (04:13):
So they can be anywhere they want to be, yeah. OF
like how many yaks did your family have?DJ: There used to be, like, around 200 yaks.
And recently they tried to reduce this,and I think like also because of grassland
over-grazing, and people agreed to minimisethe number of livestock. They think it's very
(04:39):
important to protect the environment as well.OF: Plus, it's very hard to remember 200 names.
Yes. Yeah, it was true, like very hard to remember which one you lost. You know,
too many. These days they just, like, take photosof each yak. And then they just… When they check,
they say “Oh yeah, this one is lost”, and,you know, they remember it. And also the
(05:00):
good this is like, WeChat is so popular, and theyhave all these groups, and when they lost a yak,
they just send the photo, and if otherpeople see it, they will just tell you.
OF (05:11):
Oh right. DJ
“I saw your yak down in that valley”. DJ
How funny. So, talking about, then, the produce. So anyone who's been anywhere near
the Tibetan Plateau will know about yak milk.It is ubiquitous, right? It's everywhere.
DJ (05:25):
Mm-hm, yeah. OF
yak milk play in your life up in 甘肃 [Gānsù]?DJ: Well, yak milk is our main consumption. So we
drink yak milk tea a lot, when people visit or yougo to someone's house, like they always offer you
butter tea and yak milk tea. So, I think yakmilk tea plays a very important role, because
(05:49):
that’s how the community builds connections, andspends time with each other. But these days, like
you know, people drink tea, butlike, don't talk much. You know,
because they are playing on the phone a lot. Youknow, it's just the change happens enormously.
OF (06:05):
Is there a market for Yak milk in China? DJ
is really, really superior to other milks.I mean, I also did all kinds of research,
and even compared with camel milk, it’sso interesting because Yak milk has like
(06:26):
all kinds of nutritions like there are so many. Weused to use yak milk as face cream, because like,
yak milk is so rich, and very creamy, very goodfor the skin. And especially like cracking skin,
they use yak milk to heal it. That's why like,we think yak milk is really good for soap.
(06:47):
So how does that process work? Is that something which is a traditional thing that
you used to do before? Or is it entirely new?DJ: For the community, this is a very entirely new
idea. So this skill, is like, we also got from anAmerican couple. They have a soap project. So they
(07:08):
always teach around the world about making soaps.OF: Right.
DJ (07:12):
So I emailed them, and then explained myself, and they came. So,
they spent a month in the village and taughtwomen how to make soaps. All of these soaps,
we try to use local resources, like a local herbsand finding alternative resources to use in soap,
(07:33):
rather than just buy from Taobao, yeah.OF: Yes. So what actually is the
setup that you have in the village?DJ: There are not many big machines,
I mean, it's still like kind of a medium level.The purpose of this business is, we want to
create more jobs for people. So that's whywe don't have big machines to replace people.
OF (07:55):
Right. DJ:
Just the blenders to mix in the oils, andwe also have a soap cutter. So it's just
all manual operated machines. YeahOF: And, like, did you have to build
a building? Or what was it, where is it?DJ: We started the business just at home, and
(08:18):
then we registered the business, and lotsof stuff like happened, you know. And I feel
like I wasn’t able to sell actually. In 2015, westarted like, the kind of experiment stage. And
we were like, not that confident, we felt like oursoaps are not ready for sale. Like, we would keep
(08:38):
doing and doing, but like, you know, the womenstarted losing interest. And that was a big,
difficult time. You know, local level people aremore realistic, it's not always a good way to
really talk about big ideas. You know, like “Youhave a mission” and all this, it doesn't work, you
(08:58):
know. And I ended up having two women who stayedwith me. But it's a great way to be creative,
like because soaps, you can make differentcolours, different shapes, you know whatever they
would like to do. You know, it's just like, theyreally enjoy that. That's why they wanted to stay.
So in 2016, three of us were like, started fromselling to friends. You know, some friends running
(09:26):
businesses in Lhasa, so we asked them whether theycan take our soaps, and then they started to sell,
and we started to gain a little confidence inthat. Actually we were like thinking too much
about the soap, not thinking about the sales,you know. But after selling that we felt like
(09:46):
“Oh, actually, you know, some soaps we like, butnot necessarily the customer likes”, especially
like colours and flavours. It was reallyinteresting, some soaps we really didn't like,
but the customers liked a lot.OF: For example?
DJ (10:02):
So we had a pink clay - a soap made with pink clay - so we feel like “Oh, it's not that
soft”. But people really liked it because it wasreally good for scrubbing dead skin. And also
detoxing, you know, clay is really good fordetoxing. Also we used lavender. We felt not
(10:25):
that happy about lavender, but people likedit, you know, so we had to continue to make
it. So yeah, it's so interesting. And that'swhy, like, we slowly got back on track.
OF (10:37):
Right. DJ
And then today, like, what is the setup now? DJ
to a primary school in the village.OF: Oh, the primary school.
DJ (10:49):
Yeah, so the school was run down for many years. So that's why the government
said we can use the space.OF: Nice,
And we want the community to use the space as well.
OF (11:00):
Who is your market? DJ
most are foreigners. But this year, we also wantto focus on the Chinese markets as well. You know,
more Chinese prefer natural products. So that'ssomething that we really want to focus on.
And let's talk about this packaging, because I can see on the packaging that you have
(11:20):
some Tibetan writing as well, which I love. Andthis obviously is the language that is your first
language, right?DJ: Yes.
So tell me about Tibetan language, like does it have any similarities at all to Mandarin?
DJ (11:32):
No similarities. OF
Yeah, yeah, a different language, and there are three main dialects.
Amdo, Khams and Ü-Tsang. I speak the Amdo dialect.OF: OK. And the other two are where?
Khams is in 四川 [Sìchuān] and Ü-Tsang is like in central Tibet.
OF (11:52):
Right, I see. DJ
So if you meet another Tibetan from a different part, can you communicate?
DJ (11:58):
No, sadly. OF
Yeah, people who studied - and who can speak more in an academic way - can understand each
other. But like if we speak in dialects, likeit’s really, really difficult to understand.
Even thought my language is Amdo, when Ispeak like my own dialect from the village,
(12:19):
it’s also hard to understand…OF: The next village?
Other parts of the Amdo area. OF
what's it called?DJ: Daichen.
OF (12:29):
Daichen. DJ
And in terms of other differences you have between different parts of the Tibetan Plateau,
What other differences are there?DJ: Different areas have their own costumes.
In my hometown, like, you know,they have like coral and conch.
Conch? DJ
Like from the sea? DJ
(12:53):
Like, you know, we are far away from the ocean,like, so interesting. You know, especially they
make necklaces. And yeah, so it’s interesting.OF: Right. Because from what I know about that
kind of lifestyle is… Because you were nomadic,you had to carry your valuables with you.
So I'm guessing that if you have somethingmade out of coral from many miles away,
(13:14):
that would be very valuable, right?DJ: Yeah, maybe.
But you don't know. DJ
But here we are in Shanghai. So you're living here now?
DJ (13:22):
Yes. OF
A tough decision. But like, I mean, I like all the opportunities here, especially as a
businesswoman.OF: Right,
because your market would basically be here.DJ: Yes. In Beijing and Shanghai, so it's easy
for me to travel between the cities. And alsolike, I started to make friends in Shanghai, and
(13:48):
I'm kind of well-connected,slowly connected to the community.
OF (13:52):
Yes. DJ
Yes, and I have this idealised image of the plateau with the big sky, and no people.
DJ (14:00):
Yeah. OF
with millions of people. How do you cope?DJ: Well, I have to take a month to recover
every time I come back to Shanghai.OF: Right.
Especially on the subway train, I feel like “Oh, just too many people”.
OF (14:17):
Yeah. DJ
just not that motivated to go out. And itwould take about three weeks to recover
until I feel comfortable to go out.OF: Yeah.
DJ (14:28):
Yeah. I still do my chanting every morning. OF
So, morning chanting like, you know, I have a mantra book. And every morning, I'll do my
chanting. Yeah, wherever I go later, you know,I just did like, automatically just chant, yeah.
OF (14:44):
Well, I love that we have our conversation about today. And then we can talk about your past
and your childhood back in 甘肃 [Gānsù].How did you get to where you are now?
DJ (14:55):
I finished my middle school and then I went to an English training programme in 青海 [Qīnghǎi].
That programme really changed my life.OF: And 青海 [Qīnghǎi], that's the
neighbouring province, right, to 甘肃 [Gānsù]?DJ: Yes. 青海 [Qīnghǎi] Normal University.
That's how I learnt my English.So after that, I graduated from
(15:17):
the programme, then I also worked for differentinternational companies in 香格里拉 [Shangri-La], 成都
[Chéngdū]. Then I applied for university,because I always wanted to do something
different, especially about some subjects thatare hard to find it in China. So that's when I
started looking into overseas universities.I met some Australians in 香格里拉 [Shangri-La]
(15:43):
and they recommended a university forme, and I applied for it, and got in.
OF (15:47):
Great. DJ
So that was when you went to Australia? DJ
And it was when you were in Australia that you did that TED Talk. And that's what
I have seen on YouTube. I think you're tooembarrassed to watch it yourself these days,
right?DJ: Yeah.
But tell me about what I saw on that TED Talk. DJ
(16:08):
project I did in my village. Because thatwas back in 2008, while I was doing my
English training programme at university. In myhometown, winter is really challenging because
all the water is frozen, right.OF: Oh right.
DJ (16:24):
And it’s really hard to get water for people and livestock. They had to
go to different areas to search for water. Mostof the water is just like small rivers from the
spring. Just very unstable in the wintertime.Also, women spent lots of time just carrying
water, fetching water. And I felt likemaybe there is something I can do. To
(16:49):
use pipes to carry the water from thespring all the way to each household,
like there will benefit 60 families, including aprimary school. So that can be about 200 people.
So I wrote a grant proposal, and I was supportedby my teachers at the English training programme.
After a year - it actually took a year to befunded - and surprisingly it was funded by an
(17:15):
exchange programme at 交通 [Jiāotōng] Universityin Shanghai. So, yeah, we got the grant,
you know, a lot of money at that time.But the problem at the beginning was like,
not many people believed me that I can do that.OF: Yeah, because you're pretty young now. Like,
how young would you have been back then?DJ: I was 19. I think probably,
(17:38):
I was too young. And they thought like, howcome I could find that much money, right?
OF (17:46):
I guess - long story short - you made these pipes, right?
DJ (17:49):
Yeah. Yes, so it took two years to complete the project.
OF (17:55):
Oh. DJ
quite a lot. And we we did a really good job.OF: This is while you were still studying?
DJ (18:01):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So every weekend, I would just go home, and check the project.
OF (18:07):
Wow. DJ
local water bureau, they took over the project,and they are looking after the whole project. So
it's pretty good, yeah.OF: Really good.
DJ (18:20):
Yeah, yeah. OF
you being from that village, right?DJ: Uh-huh.
OF (18:24):
That must have been a big risk, right? DJ
as well, because they don't want me to sayanything about that. Because they felt like
I'm giving false promises.OF: Right. So if you come
in saying “Hey guys, I'm going to dothis”. But then if you fail, that… Yes.
DJ (18:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my parents were very worried about it. Because
people will say it to them, not me. So…OF: They have to be your spokesman, right?
Yes. So that's why my parents were not that happy at that time, yeah.
OF (18:55):
Interesting. DJ
I mean, what is next for you, then? Do you have big projects
with the soap? Or do you have other ideas?DJ: The soap business will continue to grow.
And we also hope, more local women - especiallyyounger ones - can join us like, you know.
But I guess this is part of your project, right? Because you're
empowering the women in your project now.DJ: Yeah. Even like, the soap. We just say,
(19:20):
have financial independence.OF: Yeah.
DJ (19:22):
And we want to say this is, you know, reducing gender inequality, you know.
OF (19:31):
Yeah. DJ
Women can come to the soap production space, theyjust spend time with each other and make soaps,
and automatically, like, their husbandis at home doing most of the housework.
Oh that’s great. DJ
like, not need to really be that clear.You know, it's just like, interconnected.
(19:56):
Yes, it’s very organic. DJ
Because you just create a different situation, and then equality just seeps in, somehow.
DJ (20:04):
Yes, yes. And for the bigger picture, we want to become a natural cosmetic company. Yeah.
OF (20:12):
Well, thank you so much Danma. DJ
Let’s move on to Part 2. DJ
[Part 2]OF: So the 10 questions. Are you ready?
DJ (20:22):
Kind of! I’m sorry. OF
but they're hard.DJ: Yeah.
OF (20:29):
Question 1. What is your favourite China-related fact?
DJ (20:32):
I would say my hometown. That whole area, the region is very famous for
white yaks. So our yaks are all white, and noother Tibetan areas have that. So sometimes they
just try to take so white yaks to their areas.OF: I’ve seen them! I saw a white Yak in northern
(20:58):
Yunnan Province.DJ: Yeah.
OF (20:59):
But that was probably from your area. DJ
and not many Tibetan areas have it.OF: Right.
DJ (21:07):
Yeah. OF
a favourite word or phrase in Chinese?DJ: I would say 四海为家 [sìhǎi wéijiā].
OF (21:14):
OK, 四海 [sìhǎi] is like ‘the four seas’. DJ
like ‘make your home.’OF: OK so ‘four seas like home’?
DJ (21:21):
Wherever you travel to is your home. Because like, I want to be a traveller as well, you know.
And also because of work, I have tolive in Shanghai as my home. That
will make me feel more comfortable to live here.OF: Lovely. When someone asks me “Where is home?”
I don't quite know how to answer. Somaybe I'll just say 四海为家 [sìhǎi wéijiā].
(21:44):
Yes. OF
OF (21:45):
Yes. OF
What is your favourite destination within China?
DJ (21:50):
I really like Lhasa, central Tibet. OF
When I went to Lhasa, I really liked the style, and it made me feel really
connected to the culture. YeahOF: Yeah, I would love to go to Lhasa.
If you left China, what would you miss the
most and what would you miss the least?DJ: I really missed Tibetan food. Momo.
OF (22:14):
What’s that? DJ
to dumplings, but we also have, like,steamed momo. Yeah, it's really special.
So like, 馒头 [mántou], is it? DJ
you have fillings.OF: Like what? Like…
DJ (22:28):
Yak meat. OF
Yeah, yak meat and herbs sometimes, yeah. OF
Yeah. OF
Snow. OF
Yeah, just, yeah. OF
were growing up then, what was it really like?DJ: We got heavy snow, and sometimes it would
(22:52):
take a week just to melt. And then itkeeps snowing, sometimes, like a month.
OF (22:58):
Yeah. DJ
road is all blocked. And, yeah.OF: Next question. Is there anything that
still surprises you about modern life in China?DJ: Yes, a lot. In my village people are following
all kinds of social media. They also buy all kindsof stuff, like from Taobao and 拼多多 [Pīnduōduō],
(23:19):
you know, all these apps. And the 快递 [kuàidì]delivery person would send stuff to us,
like to our soap production space, because thatis more convenient for them, rather than just
go to each household. Because in the nomadic area,they all live far away from each other, right?
Right. DJ
a collection area. So sometimes the families wouldask us to bring stuff to them, you know “Oh, bring
(23:47):
my parcel, bring my parcel” you know. So yeah.OF: Right, because I guess that is the most
prominent address in the whole village, right?DJ: No, the delivery person is lazy.
Yeah, right. DJ
he doesn't want to travel to each household.He would just drop everything at our place.
Yes. Where is your favourite place to go, to eat or drink or hang out? And I guess it could
be here in Shanghai, or it could be in yourhometown, or anywhere you've lived in China.
DJ (24:11):
I really like Charu in 成都 [Chéngdū]. OF
So Charu is a Tibetan co-working space in 成都 [Chéngdū]. If you ever go there, just visit them.
OF (24:23):
Yeah. DJ
because like you often see people youknow, just run into people you know. And
it's just nice to hang outand have a cup of coffee.
Nice. DJ
Oh yak milk coffee. DJ
How does that taste? DJ
Yeah, I don’t believe you. DJ
(24:45):
if you ever go to 成都 [Chéngdū].OF: OK.
DJ (24:46):
Probably I'm so used to yak milk, yeah. OF
you have recently made in China?DJ: Well, I bought a jacket, and
the colour was not right, quite differentfrom the picture. I tried to return it back,
(25:08):
and the guy said “Oh, you just chosethis colour”. And then I put a comment,
I said “The colour is quite differentfrom the actual picture”. And then the
guy replied to me immediately, he said “Deleteyour comment, and I will let you return it back.”
OF (25:28):
So did you do that? DJ
took off the tag, so yeah.OF: So now you have that jacket still?
DJ (25:36):
Yes. It's a big lesson. OF
Yeah. OF
sticker? OK, I'm having a look now. Cute.DJ: I sent like, a little happy monk.
OF (25:52):
Oh, he's a Buddhist monk. DJ
Of course he is, I should have got that by the clothing. That's
nice. What’s your go-to song to sing at KTV?DJ: I haven't been to KTV for so many years.
Maybe it's because you don't drink alcohol, is that right?
DJ (26:09):
Yes, that’s probably it. OF
yak milk, you'll get some kind of high.DJ: Hopefully.
OF (26:17):
And finally, what other China-related media or sources of information do you rely on?
DJ (26:24):
I mean, WeChat is the big main source for me. I use it a lot. But I also like… WeChat recently
has channels. I really like that, because Ifeel like if my WeChat friends like something,
then I can also receive the similar feed.OF: Right.
(26:45):
So that's so interesting. OF
Well, thank you so much, Danma.DJ: Thank you.
OF (26:51):
Just having had this conversation, I can tell how, in Shanghai you're a certain
version of yourself, and then when yougo home, you're a certain version, right?
DJ (26:58):
Yes, yes. OF
out of everyone you know in China, whowould you recommend that I interview for
the next season of Mosaic of China?DJ: I would highly recommend Dorjee.
OF (27:11):
Oh Dorjee. DJ
he runs another social enterprise, in青海 [Qīnghǎi], 西宁 [Xīníng]. So he's also
like a community leader. And he does all kindsof work that really connects to his community. So
I really want him to be on your programme.OF: Wonderful. Well, I can't wait to meet him.
(27:35):
And does he live there, or doeshe come to Shanghai as well?
DJ (27:37):
He lives in 青海 [Qīnghǎi], OF
Yeah. OF
thank you so much, Danma.DJ: Thank you.
[Outro]OF:
Well I still haven’t been to Lhasasince recording this episode with Danma,
but I have been to 甘肃 [Gānsù], and I highlyrecommend it. We timed it a little late,
and by the time we reached the Tibetan partin the south, it had become unseasonably cold,
(28:00):
so we didn’t stay there long enough unfortunately.But anyway, go to the transcript of this episode
on mosaicofchina.com, where I’ll post a link tothe video we made there, and I’ll see if there’s
a way I can also share it on Facebook and WeChat.You’ll also be able to find all the other images
there that Danma shared with me, including photosof her family, the costumes from her village,
(28:22):
the white yaks wearing earrings, and of course theprocess of making the soaps. To order the soaps
internationally, go to yakmybody.com, and in Chinathere’s a WeChat mini-program which I’ll post too,
where the whole store has been discounted by 9%on all purchases made by March 19th 2021. Just
(28:42):
place your order there, and the discountwill appear automatically upon checkout.
As with every episode this season, there’san extra 10-15 minutes of content if you
subscribe to the Patreon page, hereare a few clips from today’s episode…
[Clip 1]DJ: I lived in the tents when I was little like,
But now people think tents are too inconvenient.[Clip 2]
(29:02):
The children are raised by community members, or grandparents.
[Clip 3]DJ: We use juniper to, like,
have that purification ceremony.[Clip 4]
OF (29:13):
They also wanted to have modern conveniences themselves, right?
DJ (29:16):
Yes. Yeah, yeah, conflict. OF
[Clip 5]DJ: Every season, you move to a new place,
you have different neighbours.[End of Audio Clips]
Danma represents the first tile in the Mosaicof China who is from one of the 55 officially
recognised ethnic minorities in China, sointerviewing her made me realise that there’s
still such a lot of diversity to uncover infuture series. I also really appreciated having an
(29:42):
episode with a heavy focus on one animal, the yak.It reminds me of one of the most popular episodes
from last season, which was Episode 14 with EmilyMadge, who talked about her work in transporting a
couple of beluga whales from an aquarium inChina to a semi-wild sanctuary in Iceland.
So be sure to check out thatepisode if you haven’t heard it yet.
(30:03):
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs,with artwork by Denny Newell.
After the credits there’s a catch-up chatwith Gina Li from Season 01 Episode 06,
who also hails from Gansu Province.And I’ll be back again next week.
[Catch-Up Interview]OF:
(30:28):
Hello, Gina.GL: Hello, you.
OF (30:30):
You make me smile whenever I see you, which has…
GL (30:32):
Never changed. OF
of the people from Season 01 who, like me, hasbeen stuck here in Shanghai most of the time.
Exactly. I think probably over a year already. OF
Yeah. OF
yeah. So I have actually seen you quite a fewtimes, especially just on the street, randomly.
You are everywhere. I just see you everywhere. Whenever I was like
(30:54):
“Am I gonna see Oscar?” Yeah, here you go.OF: Yes. Well, the reason I brought you in
today especially…GL: Yeah
OF (31:00):
…Is to record this little update chat. GL
So we did our original recording, gosh it must be now almost two years ago.
We obviously had the COVID situation.GL: Yes.
But your life was changing even before that, wasn't it?
GL (31:13):
Exactly. Like, after we recorded, I was selected to be a delegate Chinese innovator,
to represent China, go to APEC. I went to Chile,I have seen a lot of people from around the world.
It’s the Asia Pacific Economy Conference, it’smeant to be the 21 countries from around the Asian
Pacific. The really interesting thing is, thereare certain bits of, like, political influence
(31:40):
of - you know, like certain countries versus China- there were some different opinions. So there
were very blunt questions, just asking varioussensitive questions that you try not to answer.
And also, yeah, like, it's just the totalatmosphere started to make you review whether…
(32:03):
Do people care that you’re from China, ordo people care about who you are. Yeah.
OF (32:08):
Right. So what I'm hearing is, it wasn't as welcoming as you would have wanted. You
were sort of questioned, not about yourbusiness, not about your innovation,
but more about you as representing China, right?GL: Exactly. Like, no one even bothered… Like for
three days, people didn't remember my name. Sothat made me reflect a lot on the business I did,
(32:29):
the career planning I had, and it's justall of a sudden become a question called:
“Me and myself (32:33):
are they aligned?” Like, I had never thought about that.
OF (32:39):
Well maybe I should, at this point, introduce what you were doing, for people who did not hear
your episode.GL: Yeah.
So at that time, you were the CEO of a product innovation company.
GL (32:50):
Yes. OF
things you did, it was things like a telescope,and things like… a new way of doing candy floss…
…Like robotics and delivery systems, things where I was like,
“I'm gonna change a lot of things”.OF: Right.
Yeah. But I think because of the APEC, that was the first time in my life,
I thought what other thing could I do to benefitmyself? So after Chile, I did sit down with my
(33:15):
partner and my investors - or the advisors - totell them, maybe it's time to make a change. And
I didn't know where the change would go. But it'sdefinitely not going to be the same direction. So
there were different opinions, but I was quitelucky, my business partner was very supportive.
And he understood that for years, I'd been working20 hours in the office, never thought about
(33:37):
having my own life, I barely see friends. Andquickly - just long story short - we decided to
close the company. And after that, there wasa period of time I tried different companies.
So, like a big update is, I got assigned withone of the very amazing innovation firms here,
(33:59):
it’s called ?What If!OF: ?What If!, right?
Yes. ?What If! OF
Really? OF
innovation part of Accenture, right?GL: Yes. It’s a really great team.
And then after battling through the year, there'ssomething I really want to dedicate work on. And,
let's say, heal the past. Andthen really open up a new future.
OF (34:19):
Ooh. GL
Yeah. And this reminds me of our episode as well, because when we talked on that episode,
the first five minutes straight was you talkingabout how you had got to the journey of becoming
an innovation CEO.GL: Yeah.
And you had already gone through many reinventions. So I'm almost not surprised that
(34:42):
you were about ready to do another reinvention.GL: I'm like, I think this thing evolved.
It started to work even faster. Like, I rebuilta new routine, I got up early, I start work
early and go to the gym, I adjusted my diet.I realised there are so many things in life,
you gain, you lose, there are so many problemsand issues you have to face, and you’re struggling
(35:07):
when the time happens. But there's nothing betterthan you feel you still have yourself. That is
amazing. It's more amazing than being chosento represent a country to go to a conference.
Yes, isn’t it funny. And I think many people during COVID have gone through a similar
transformation, where they thought… the thingsthat you really thought were important before…
GL (35:28):
Yeah. OF
no, your health, your family, your friends, yourconnections, those are what's important, right?
Yes. And I was writing the review of 2020. And the interesting thing is, I don't remember any of
the bad times. I don't remember any of the dayswhere I was struggling and didn't know what to do.
All I remember were the days when friends came tomy house to support me, because they didn’t want
(35:50):
me to stay by myself. I remember seeing you on thestreet, I was just laughing and giving you a hug.
Everything I remember is happiness.OF: Yeah. I think we are wired to not
think about the troubles of the past. It's beensuch an interesting period. And most people have
gone through some kind of change.GL: Yeah
OF (36:08):
But yours is quite dramatic. GL
Um, so just to wrap up this conversation, the person who you recommended in the end couldn't
be part of the podcast.GL: Yes, yes.
But I found a really good replacement. I think you'll be happy with who we found.
GL (36:25):
Yes. OF
compensation at the end of that episode.GL: Oh, wow.
OF (36:30):
So you will have some kind of connection with Season 02, and I hope that you and I
will also stay in touch in the future.GL: For sure, for sure. Let's do it.
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