December 9, 2019 • 27 mins
Today’s interview is with the artist Nini Sum. We talk about her life and work as the co-founder of IdleBeats, the first independent screen print studio in China, as well as her take on artistic expression and the arts scene in general in China. You’ll notice straight away that she has a very hypnotic way of talking, so this episode should be a nice, slow and relaxing one. Chapters 00:00 - Trailer & Intro 01:00 - Part 1 16:46 - Part 2 24:46 - Outro Instagram: www.instagram.com/oscology Facebook: www.facebook.com/mosaicofchina WeChat: www.mosaicofchina.com/wechat
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[Trailer]NS: In Chinese
(00:03):
it’s called 草泥马 [cǎonímǎ]. And peoplesay it’s like me. I use this a lot.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
I want to give a big thanks tothe magazine That's Shanghai,
for featuring the podcast inits online edition last week,
(00:23):
and especially to Ned who did the interview.So in case there are any new listeners,
welcome to you. I think the back catalogue of thepodcast adds up to around eight hours. So all you
have to do is stay up for one night, and you'llbe all caught up. There you go, you're welcome.
Today's interview is with Nina Sum. We talkabout her life and work as the co-founder of
the first independent screen print studioin China, as well as her take on artistic
(00:48):
expression and the art scene in general inChina. And you'll notice straight away that
she has a very hypnotic way of talking, so thisepisode should be a nice, slow and relaxing one.
[Part 1]OF: Well, thank you very much for coming.
NS (01:02):
Thank you for having me. OF
And Nina is an artist, and also the cofounder of IdleBeats here in Shanghai.
Yes. OF
to know all about that. But first of all, whatis the object that you have brought in today?
I brought in a screen print. So the name of this screen print is ‘Intergeneration’.
(01:23):
So it's handmade print art. The maincharacter is a grandpa, riding a bicycle,
carrying his granddaughter. And they are lookingthrough a traditional Chinese garden gate. And
through this gate, you can see a gradient fromthe sunset, red to yellow, and to blue. And the
(01:50):
background is actually the modern city. So it'sa mixture of real and surreal elements. It's a
fairy tale happening in the city. But also likea dream, that you can dream of the traditional
Chinese ink painting scenery,OF: Right. And what does this
mean to you, this particular piece?NS: This is how I see modern life right now
(02:14):
in China. So you have a lot of daily life goingon in the streets, with all these big buildings.
But also everyone has a spiritual world. It'salmost like an oasis in your heart. Then you can
go maybe time travel, go back to the old days,or like a dreamland within your daily life.
OF (02:35):
Wow. And your voice has a dream-like quality. So it's kind of making me almost
go into a different world right now.Well, you mentioned this is screen
printing. So what actually is screen printing.NS: Screen printing is actually one of the oldest
printmaking methods. So same like wood cut -like the Japanese 浮世絵 [Ukiyo-e] printmaking
(02:59):
method - and also like etching, copper boardprinting, they're all printmaking techniques.
But screen printing got quite popularised inthe last century by these pop artists, like Andy
Warhol. So it's basically using a piece of silkstretched on a wooden or metal frame. And you use
(03:21):
photo exposure technique to expose one image ontothe silk. So part of the silk is sealed by a photo
emulsion, and some parts are through. So thenyou put some ink on it, and you press it with a
squeegee, like a printing board. Then the ink getssqueezed through the silk, and forms a graphic. So
(03:45):
each colour takes one screen. Then, for example,this print takes 14 to 15 screens to make. And it
always comes in an edition. Because you print thefirst layer like 50 times, and the second layer
again, and in the end, you get 50 prints.OF: So for print like this, each different
(04:06):
colour would be a different screen print.NS: Yes. So it's almost like a manual
Photoshop. But you do everything by hand. Somaybe each colour is a little bit different,
and the positioning is, is a little bitdifferent. And sometimes I like to add some
hand painting effect into it. So each one looksalmost the same, but it has a human touch in it.
(04:29):
Right. NS
to make the whole edition. I think the edition is16. Yeah, this is a very complicated one to make.
Right. So tell us about IdleBeats. NS
me and my studio partner Gregor Koerting.He's a German artist. And we are the first
(04:53):
independent screen printing studio in China.We found the studio in 2009. So 10 years ago,
we've been running the studio here in Shanghaifor 10 years now. So Gregor and I, we both make
print art, and also do visuals for musicians suchas album covers, or music posters. And recently,
(05:16):
we do also public art. So actually it’s not reallyonly limited to screen printing. But back in the
days when we founded the studio, no-one wasdoing this. And also, we run a community screen
printing space, also under IdleBeats. It’s calledIB Print Club. We also work with brands, and also
do commercial art collaborations. Actually I neverreally intended to start a screen printing studio,
(05:44):
I never really thought like that. It's justbecause in college, I got to know this art form.
And I found it really, really fun to play with.And after college, I wanted to make some of my
drawings into prints, so I could share them withmy friends and family. Because they were always
(06:08):
like “I want one of something you’ve made, andblah, blah.” And I was making oil paintings, but
with oil paintings, I cannot give you one becausethere's only one piece. That's why I thought “OK,
maybe I will try with screen printing, then I canmake an edition, and share with other people”. So
I just got some equipment and made some printsand also T-shirts and tote bags. So those also
(06:34):
can be screen printed. Then once I started doingthat, I found out actually people were really
curious about it. So 10 years ago, actually, notreally too many people knew what this art form is,
especially Chinese kids, they were super curious.Then, we also got contacted by a music club - an
underground music club - called Shelter, inShanghai. So I started making like music poster
(06:59):
art. So it was just really a fun game to me.OF: So when I think about screen printing
as an art form, it has a kind of undergroundedge to it. Like, has it always been a little
bit subversive? Or is it quite mainstream?NS: Actually it’s pretty divided. So actually,
there were some factories existing alreadyin China. And their job is to help the
(07:22):
established fine artist make duplications, likecopies, of their origin works. For example,
if I'm a super famous artist, I make an oilpainting, then I would hire a print factory
to make it into a screenprint editionthat I can sell and make more money. But
we use it more for independent art output.OF: So how easy is it for someone to come
(07:49):
in from scratch, and to make their own artwork?NS: So within two hours, actually, you can turn
one simple graphic into a screen print. It’sactually quite an easy way, the entry level
is pretty low. That's why it's such an artform for everyone. Not just for the élite,
where you have to go to art school, and learnart history, or you know how to paint well. No,
(08:12):
screen printing is really for everyone. So peoplewill come to IB Print Club for the workshops,
they can be like “OK, yesterday I made adoodle drawing and I want to make it into a
T shirt”. Or “I took a photo of my girlfriend.I really like it, can I make into a print and
give her like a present?” It's all doable. Yeah.OF: That's great. And so how would you describe
(08:34):
the independent art scene in China right now?NS: In the recent one or two years actually,
I am really excited about the independent artscene in China. Because when we started doing
this 10 years ago, we hardly can find a crowd whoappreciate this kind of arts. It was mostly expats
(08:55):
to be honest, people who appreciate this artand who would really buy it or hang it in their
homes. Most of the Chinese, they either go forthe fine art market to buy super expensive arts;
or they go to IKEA or even like a streetshop to buy those cheap, mainstream,
just bad-quality prints. But now in recentyears, you can see there are many art fairs
(09:19):
happening in China. Like art events. Irecently went to one in 成都 [Chéngdū],
it’s called the Singularity Art Fair. I met somany young artists there, they are showing their
works and in all kinds of wicked forms. I justfeel like the young people, younger generation,
(09:41):
they have the eagerness to express themselvesand to make things. And there are also people
who are bringing all these people together, likethe host of the art fairs. And also different
book fairs are also happening now, not only inChina, not only in Shanghai, but also in Asia,
(10:01):
like in Tokyo, in Seoul, even in Bangkok, indifferent regions. I feel like it’s really
alive, this independent art scene.OF: That's great to hear because
often life in China, it can be quiterestrictive. Do you feel any pressure
in that regard? Or is it mainly positive?NS: Definitely, you definitely feel that,
(10:23):
especially if you're a content creator. ButI also think the way of expressing one's
thoughts… Actually, China is also different tothe West, it’s never really like, provoking,
or a very extreme way of expression. In that way,actually I feel like if you compared to 10 years
(10:48):
ago, people are way more daring to expressthemselves and be more creative. Definitely.
Right. You're not the first person who said that. I think if you come from a
Western perspective, you're used to art beingvery confrontational and very, very loud and
‘out there’. It can be very challenging. ButI think you do have the same style in China,
(11:10):
but it's just a little bit more subtle.And it's more about the nuances, right?
NS (11:13):
Yes. OF
that around Asia, there are various independentart scenes, from Japan down to Thailand. So do
you do any collaborations outside of China?NS: Yes, actually, for the past years,
we've been doing a art exchange project calledTale of Two Cities. It’s a dual city exhibition,
(11:35):
where every year, we choose one art studio thathas a similar practice like us, then we invite
them here to China to have an exhibition withus. And we also go to their cities. So it's
like a two-city exchange. We've done it for fouryears already, with studios from Paris, Berlin,
(11:56):
Cambodia, and also Groningen in the Netherlands.So it's four groups of different artists.
OF (12:04):
And how was the experience in Cambodia? NS
me the strongest impression, becausepeople there are not like in Europe,
they are working under extremely hard conditions,they don't even have enough water pressure, and
it's super crazily hot there, and they don't haveair-con. But they build everything on their own,
(12:29):
even the exposure box was built just by severalpieces of wood, and they put some lamps in it.
But they still make beautiful and powerful prints.That's why the experience was really memorable.
Maybe it just goes to show that making art is primal. It's something which you have
to do. And it doesn't matter if you havethe best technology, or the or the best
(12:50):
equipment, it just has to come out, right?NS: Yeah, exactly. I think that's also the charm
of screen printing. You can really do it, if youwant to. So you don't need to, like I said, have a
higher education, or a really fancy art studio.OF: So how has your own personal
art evolved over the years?NS: After doing oil painting for several years,
(13:12):
I found actually, it's more like me talking tomyself and expressing my own thoughts, in my
own little world. But after I moved to Shanghai,actually I feel like China is changing every day,
and I don't want to stay in my own little worldany more. So I started doing other other kinds
(13:36):
of projects, and using screen printing. Becauseof this medium, I can get to know more people,
and to do classes, and do collaborations. Andthat's why the work now after these years, is more
about the society. Before it was more surreal anddreamy, but now I try to keep this kind of surreal
(13:57):
feeling but also adding more like real-lifehappenings into it. Like the life that’s really
happening around me, not just the spiritual world.OF: Do you compartmentalise your life between art,
and then outside you don't do muchart? Or what's your free time like?
NS (14:19):
Actually, for 10 years I've been living as a full-time artist, there's not really a line
between free time and, and work anymore. Sosometimes, for example, if you watch a movie,
and this movie can be inspirational, thenright after watching it, I will make a sketch
(14:39):
or something. So it's really fun. It's alreadypart of the creation, it’s already part of life.
And sometimes creation is also relaxing.OF: And where does that come from? Like,
did you come from an artistic background?NS: Not at all. My parents are both working-class,
working in normal ordinary jobs. Yeah. Actually,this is the only job that I feel attracted to.
(15:04):
I was also working in an office. But if workingtowards a commercial purpose, I just feel really
vain inside. So that's why making art is morelike a therapy, kind of thing. So every day,
I feel like it's not wasted. I'm workingtowards a purpose that is however meaningful
(15:26):
to me. That's why I could live happily everyday. If I do anything else. I don't think I'll
be as happy as I am right now. I just want to beable to create, and work on interesting projects,
and go to different places, and get toknow other interesting people like you.
OF (15:45):
I'm not sure… If you saw my art, I'm not sure we would be friends.
NS (15:49):
I’m quite curious now. OF
I've never been able to draw.NS: But you know what, you don't need
to draw well. So I had a had a discussion withthis French studio. Both are very philosophical
thinking artists, they make really nice drawings,and they would draw blindly, or they would draw
(16:13):
with left hands. So it's all for breakingthe normal rules of what a good drawing is.
Maybe you just draw blindly, but you come upwith like an abstract painting. I was really
inspired by them. So maybe your drawing islike masterpieces, you just don't know it.
OF (16:29):
OK, I'll do it. And then I'll be a famous artist for all to see. Well, thank you so much
Nini, that's great to find out all about whatyou're doing. Well now let's move on to Part 2,
which are the 10 questions.NS: Yep.
[Part 2]OF: So, ready?
NS (16:48):
Yes. OF
what is your favourite China-related fact?NS: I don't really know if this is a fact.
But I like how surreal China is, and howfast it changes. And how alive this place is.
OF (17:04):
Can you think of any examples? NS
of Coca-Cola is precious. I remember this, myparents would take me to the street, and also
some kind of field trip. And I would beg them tobuy me a can of Coca-Cola, this would be a rare
chance maybe for the whole season, I could geta sip of that. But now if I go to a supermarket,
(17:27):
I see all these products on the shelves. I'm justlike "Where is this place?” It's just a short,
maybe 10-20 years, and it has changed somuch. New things are popping up all the time,
it’s really surreal living in this place.OF: Well, you mentioned the word ‘surreal’.
So I wonder, is that what you're trying
to encapsulate in your art?NS: Yes. And I want to keep
(17:49):
that feeling, but also add a poetic twist.OF: Do you have a favourite word or phrase that
you'd like to teach other people in Chinese?NS: Yes, it's called 自然而然 [zìrán’ érrán].
It's like very Zen, and self-satisfying, andnatural flow. So I think in oriental philosophy,
(18:12):
there is something that's not really describablewith words. And sometimes you cannot force things
to happen, but rather feel the feeling, andgo with the flow, and be true to yourself.
Yeah, when you said “go with the flow”, I think that's the closest thing that I would
describe it as. Like, “go with the natural flow”.NS: Yes.
(18:34):
OK. I'm going to start to use that. Thank you. What is your favourite destination within China?
NS (18:41):
I will say my hometown. OF
Which is 南京 [Nánjīng]. Because I really like going back, and visiting my parents, and stay with
them. It makes me really, really calm.OF: What do you think is the best
thing about living there, not as a tourist.NS: Actually, Nanjing is a very slow city. And
(19:01):
there was an ancient capital of The Six Dynasties.So it kept a lot of great walls from the 明 [Míng]
Dynasty, and 朱元璋 [Zhū Yuánzhāng] especially.So it's a very historical place. And it's very
green, because it has a mountain in the heartof the city, and a big lake. So if you get out
of the train station, you see this big lake. Andwhen I was little, I always pedalled boats on it,
(19:27):
and also went to the mountain a lot, just forclimbing, and you can go to the astronaut centre
on it. So 南京 [Nánjīng] is a place I thinkthat’s really good for living a chill life.
OF (19:39):
Lucky. If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?
NS (19:44):
I would miss people most, like my parents and friends. And the least would
be construction noise. Damn, it's just too much.OF: But actually I've got to a point now where
I just focus it out. I didn't hear it very much.NS: Ah but it’s everywhere. Sometimes, like in my
(20:06):
studio, you can hear this from a building faraway. I go home, and it’s 11pm at night, and
somebody's sawing wood out there. And I literallyjumped off the stairs, and I was shouting at them,
like “What do you think you're doing? Grandmas andkids are sleeping, I'm going to call the police!”
(20:27):
And they're like “Why do you make it a big deal?”People are so ignorant about this. This is the
thing I hate the most.OF: Yeah.
It’s crazy. OF
next question, is there anything that stillsurprises you about modern life in China?
Yes, actually recently, I got invited to do a very interesting
(20:48):
new project. And this surprises me, becauseI wasn't expecting they would come to some
artist like me. This is a VR project. Yeah.OF: Where's your favourite place to go out,
to eat or drink or just hang out?NS: Actually, my friend’s studio.
So I have several artist friends, theyall have studios around my studio’s area,
(21:13):
pretty downtown. And I go in there, see whatthey're making recently. And also sometimes
invite people here to my studio, having a beer.OF: Right. It's funny, you're never really far
away from art. Even when you're hangingout, you’re hanging out around art.
Oh my god, it's terrible. OF
worst purchase you've made in China?NS: Best purchase. I bought some artist friends
(21:39):
merchandise. Like, they sculpted some candles.So it's like a sculpture, but it's also a candle,
then you can burn them, and the sculpture justmelts. I think the idea is really cool. It's
also something that you can just buy easily, it’slike 100 快 [kuài] or something. So this is what
I'm talking about, these new ideas. And people arealso adapting arts into everyday life, and making
(22:04):
products. And they make that, and sell that, andthey have more money to go back and make more
ideas. And I like buying stuff like this. Yeah.OF: Great. What's your favourite WeChat
sticker? OK, can you describe this?NS: I don't know, this is… In Chinese
(22:27):
it’s called 草泥马 [cǎonímǎ]. It’s likehis kind of… I don't know what kind of
animal this is, like a sheep or something.OF: I think it's a llama. Is it a llama?
Oh yeah yeah, I think it’s a llama, that’s the name of it. And I just like his face.
It’s like just chewing and like “Eh?” He justturns into like “Whaaaat?” It's really silly.
And people say it’s like me. So I use this a lot.OF: What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?
(22:53):
Linkin Park. Yeah, because I don't really go to KTV. The last time I went
there was maybe several years ago. And whenI was in high school, Linkin Park was really
popular. So it was like me and some classmates,and they are doing the rap parts, and I’m doing
the singing parts. It’s a long time ago.OF: I kind of want to see you do that now.
(23:17):
You're very softly spoken, but I can see thatyou have a punk side to you that would come out
pretty strong.NS: Yeah.
OF (23:24):
And finally, what other China-related media sources or news outlets do you rely on?
NS (23:31):
Before there were a lot of art magazines, like ‘Art World’ or something. And you can see
the latest exhibitions. But now it's morelike people are sharing their information
in their Moments on WeChat mainly. Yeah.OF: Right. Well, thank you so much, Nini.
Oh thank you, Oscar. OF
(23:51):
leave - it's the same question I ask every guest- who do you recommend that I interview next?
I would recommend Zovi. Zovi is a friend who is a comic artist. And she is also in a
band. And she does this amazing comic art groupcalled ‘Shaving in the Dark’. And she is very
(24:13):
enthusiastic about putting a community togetherto do creative output. And she's bilingual,
really smart, really talented. So Ithink you should have a chat with her.
OF (24:24):
Oh, that's great. I actually ran into her because I was doing a presentation. And she was
in the audience doing live art. As I was doingit, she was drawing it, it was so impressive.
NS (24:35):
Yeah, I think she does that every day, like her job. But yeah,
she's really smart and really fast.OF: OK, I can't wait to talk with her.
Thanks so much, Nini.NS: Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So the first thing I
would like to point out is Nini’s WeChat sticker.You can see the llama on Facebook and Instagram,
just search for ‘mosaicofchina’ there. AndI'm always trying to encourage people to
(24:58):
comment about their understanding about all thingsChinese in the community on WeChat. But this time,
if you know the double meaning of this sticker,then maybe keep it to yourself just this once.
To join that community, please add me on my WechatID: mosaicofchina, and I'll add you to the group
there. Apart from that, you can also see Nini'sobject, which was one of her prints. And there are
(25:19):
another couple of examples of her work there too.There are some photos of the studio IdleBeats,
with her collaborator Gregor. And there's animage from the Singularity Fair in 成都 [Chéngdū]
that she mentioned. It's a lot bigger in scalethan I was picturing in my head. And finally,
there are a few photos of her favourite placeto visit in China, her hometown of 南京 [Nánjīng].
Before I leave, mentioning the historical city of南京 [Nánjīng] offers me the excuse to give a long
(25:44):
overdue shout-out to The China History Podcast,or ‘CHP’, presented by Laszlo Montgomery. If you
heard Episode 08 with Vy Vu, she mentionedthat there's a history podcast, which is one
of our favourite sources of information, butwe didn't name it. And if you listened to last
week's bonus episode that I recorded with ShannonMartin, I also mentioned a great history podcast,
and again I didn't name it. Well, it’s this one.Chinese history is extremely daunting, there's
(26:09):
this dynasty and that dynasty, and this Emperorand that battle. If you're like me, you'll have no
clue where to even start. Well, Laszlo’s podcastis where you should start. And if I sound a little
bit flustered while saying this, it's becauseLaszlo is in the Mosaic of China WeChat community,
which makes it all the more embarrassingthat I haven't mentioned it until now.
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs; extraediting support from Milo de Prieto,
(26:32):
artwork by Denny Newell, and China support fromAlston Gong. Next week's episode is a fun one,
and it'll be the last one before thewinter break. So I'll see you then.
[Trailer]NS: In Chinese
(00:03):
it’s called 草泥马 [cǎonímǎ]. And peoplesay it’s like me. I use this a lot.
[Intro]OF: Welcome to Mosaic of China,
a podcast about people who are making theirmark in China. I'm your host, Oscar Fuchs.
I want to give a big thanks tothe magazine That's Shanghai,
for featuring the podcast inits online edition last week,
(00:23):
and especially to Ned who did the interview.So in case there are any new listeners,
welcome to you. I think the back catalogue of thepodcast adds up to around eight hours. So all you
have to do is stay up for one night, and you'llbe all caught up. There you go, you're welcome.
Today's interview is with Nina Sum. We talkabout her life and work as the co-founder of
the first independent screen print studioin China, as well as her take on artistic
(00:48):
expression and the art scene in general inChina. And you'll notice straight away that
she has a very hypnotic way of talking, so thisepisode should be a nice, slow and relaxing one.
[Part 1]OF: Well, thank you very much for coming.
NS (01:02):
Thank you for having me. OF
And Nina is an artist, and also the cofounder of IdleBeats here in Shanghai.
Yes. OF
to know all about that. But first of all, whatis the object that you have brought in today?
I brought in a screen print. So the name of this screen print is ‘Intergeneration’.
(01:23):
So it's handmade print art. The maincharacter is a grandpa, riding a bicycle,
carrying his granddaughter. And they are lookingthrough a traditional Chinese garden gate. And
through this gate, you can see a gradient fromthe sunset, red to yellow, and to blue. And the
(01:50):
background is actually the modern city. So it'sa mixture of real and surreal elements. It's a
fairy tale happening in the city. But also likea dream, that you can dream of the traditional
Chinese ink painting scenery,OF: Right. And what does this
mean to you, this particular piece?NS: This is how I see modern life right now
(02:14):
in China. So you have a lot of daily life goingon in the streets, with all these big buildings.
But also everyone has a spiritual world. It'salmost like an oasis in your heart. Then you can
go maybe time travel, go back to the old days,or like a dreamland within your daily life.
OF (02:35):
Wow. And your voice has a dream-like quality. So it's kind of making me almost
go into a different world right now.Well, you mentioned this is screen
printing. So what actually is screen printing.NS: Screen printing is actually one of the oldest
printmaking methods. So same like wood cut -like the Japanese 浮世絵 [Ukiyo-e] printmaking
(02:59):
method - and also like etching, copper boardprinting, they're all printmaking techniques.
But screen printing got quite popularised inthe last century by these pop artists, like Andy
Warhol. So it's basically using a piece of silkstretched on a wooden or metal frame. And you use
(03:21):
photo exposure technique to expose one image ontothe silk. So part of the silk is sealed by a photo
emulsion, and some parts are through. So thenyou put some ink on it, and you press it with a
squeegee, like a printing board. Then the ink getssqueezed through the silk, and forms a graphic. So
(03:45):
each colour takes one screen. Then, for example,this print takes 14 to 15 screens to make. And it
always comes in an edition. Because you print thefirst layer like 50 times, and the second layer
again, and in the end, you get 50 prints.OF: So for print like this, each different
(04:06):
colour would be a different screen print.NS: Yes. So it's almost like a manual
Photoshop. But you do everything by hand. Somaybe each colour is a little bit different,
and the positioning is, is a little bitdifferent. And sometimes I like to add some
hand painting effect into it. So each one looksalmost the same, but it has a human touch in it.
(04:29):
Right. NS
to make the whole edition. I think the edition is16. Yeah, this is a very complicated one to make.
Right. So tell us about IdleBeats. NS
me and my studio partner Gregor Koerting.He's a German artist. And we are the first
(04:53):
independent screen printing studio in China.We found the studio in 2009. So 10 years ago,
we've been running the studio here in Shanghaifor 10 years now. So Gregor and I, we both make
print art, and also do visuals for musicians suchas album covers, or music posters. And recently,
(05:16):
we do also public art. So actually it’s not reallyonly limited to screen printing. But back in the
days when we founded the studio, no-one wasdoing this. And also, we run a community screen
printing space, also under IdleBeats. It’s calledIB Print Club. We also work with brands, and also
do commercial art collaborations. Actually I neverreally intended to start a screen printing studio,
(05:44):
I never really thought like that. It's justbecause in college, I got to know this art form.
And I found it really, really fun to play with.And after college, I wanted to make some of my
drawings into prints, so I could share them withmy friends and family. Because they were always
(06:08):
like “I want one of something you’ve made, andblah, blah.” And I was making oil paintings, but
with oil paintings, I cannot give you one becausethere's only one piece. That's why I thought “OK,
maybe I will try with screen printing, then I canmake an edition, and share with other people”. So
I just got some equipment and made some printsand also T-shirts and tote bags. So those also
(06:34):
can be screen printed. Then once I started doingthat, I found out actually people were really
curious about it. So 10 years ago, actually, notreally too many people knew what this art form is,
especially Chinese kids, they were super curious.Then, we also got contacted by a music club - an
underground music club - called Shelter, inShanghai. So I started making like music poster
(06:59):
art. So it was just really a fun game to me.OF: So when I think about screen printing
as an art form, it has a kind of undergroundedge to it. Like, has it always been a little
bit subversive? Or is it quite mainstream?NS: Actually it’s pretty divided. So actually,
there were some factories existing alreadyin China. And their job is to help the
(07:22):
established fine artist make duplications, likecopies, of their origin works. For example,
if I'm a super famous artist, I make an oilpainting, then I would hire a print factory
to make it into a screenprint editionthat I can sell and make more money. But
we use it more for independent art output.OF: So how easy is it for someone to come
(07:49):
in from scratch, and to make their own artwork?NS: So within two hours, actually, you can turn
one simple graphic into a screen print. It’sactually quite an easy way, the entry level
is pretty low. That's why it's such an artform for everyone. Not just for the élite,
where you have to go to art school, and learnart history, or you know how to paint well. No,
(08:12):
screen printing is really for everyone. So peoplewill come to IB Print Club for the workshops,
they can be like “OK, yesterday I made adoodle drawing and I want to make it into a
T shirt”. Or “I took a photo of my girlfriend.I really like it, can I make into a print and
give her like a present?” It's all doable. Yeah.OF: That's great. And so how would you describe
(08:34):
the independent art scene in China right now?NS: In the recent one or two years actually,
I am really excited about the independent artscene in China. Because when we started doing
this 10 years ago, we hardly can find a crowd whoappreciate this kind of arts. It was mostly expats
(08:55):
to be honest, people who appreciate this artand who would really buy it or hang it in their
homes. Most of the Chinese, they either go forthe fine art market to buy super expensive arts;
or they go to IKEA or even like a streetshop to buy those cheap, mainstream,
just bad-quality prints. But now in recentyears, you can see there are many art fairs
(09:19):
happening in China. Like art events. Irecently went to one in 成都 [Chéngdū],
it’s called the Singularity Art Fair. I met somany young artists there, they are showing their
works and in all kinds of wicked forms. I justfeel like the young people, younger generation,
(09:41):
they have the eagerness to express themselvesand to make things. And there are also people
who are bringing all these people together, likethe host of the art fairs. And also different
book fairs are also happening now, not only inChina, not only in Shanghai, but also in Asia,
(10:01):
like in Tokyo, in Seoul, even in Bangkok, indifferent regions. I feel like it’s really
alive, this independent art scene.OF: That's great to hear because
often life in China, it can be quiterestrictive. Do you feel any pressure
in that regard? Or is it mainly positive?NS: Definitely, you definitely feel that,
(10:23):
especially if you're a content creator. ButI also think the way of expressing one's
thoughts… Actually, China is also different tothe West, it’s never really like, provoking,
or a very extreme way of expression. In that way,actually I feel like if you compared to 10 years
(10:48):
ago, people are way more daring to expressthemselves and be more creative. Definitely.
Right. You're not the first person who said that. I think if you come from a
Western perspective, you're used to art beingvery confrontational and very, very loud and
‘out there’. It can be very challenging. ButI think you do have the same style in China,
(11:10):
but it's just a little bit more subtle.And it's more about the nuances, right?
NS (11:13):
Yes. OF
that around Asia, there are various independentart scenes, from Japan down to Thailand. So do
you do any collaborations outside of China?NS: Yes, actually, for the past years,
we've been doing a art exchange project calledTale of Two Cities. It’s a dual city exhibition,
(11:35):
where every year, we choose one art studio thathas a similar practice like us, then we invite
them here to China to have an exhibition withus. And we also go to their cities. So it's
like a two-city exchange. We've done it for fouryears already, with studios from Paris, Berlin,
(11:56):
Cambodia, and also Groningen in the Netherlands.So it's four groups of different artists.
OF (12:04):
And how was the experience in Cambodia? NS
me the strongest impression, becausepeople there are not like in Europe,
they are working under extremely hard conditions,they don't even have enough water pressure, and
it's super crazily hot there, and they don't haveair-con. But they build everything on their own,
(12:29):
even the exposure box was built just by severalpieces of wood, and they put some lamps in it.
But they still make beautiful and powerful prints.That's why the experience was really memorable.
Maybe it just goes to show that making art is primal. It's something which you have
to do. And it doesn't matter if you havethe best technology, or the or the best
(12:50):
equipment, it just has to come out, right?NS: Yeah, exactly. I think that's also the charm
of screen printing. You can really do it, if youwant to. So you don't need to, like I said, have a
higher education, or a really fancy art studio.OF: So how has your own personal
art evolved over the years?NS: After doing oil painting for several years,
(13:12):
I found actually, it's more like me talking tomyself and expressing my own thoughts, in my
own little world. But after I moved to Shanghai,actually I feel like China is changing every day,
and I don't want to stay in my own little worldany more. So I started doing other other kinds
(13:36):
of projects, and using screen printing. Becauseof this medium, I can get to know more people,
and to do classes, and do collaborations. Andthat's why the work now after these years, is more
about the society. Before it was more surreal anddreamy, but now I try to keep this kind of surreal
(13:57):
feeling but also adding more like real-lifehappenings into it. Like the life that’s really
happening around me, not just the spiritual world.OF: Do you compartmentalise your life between art,
and then outside you don't do muchart? Or what's your free time like?
NS (14:19):
Actually, for 10 years I've been living as a full-time artist, there's not really a line
between free time and, and work anymore. Sosometimes, for example, if you watch a movie,
and this movie can be inspirational, thenright after watching it, I will make a sketch
(14:39):
or something. So it's really fun. It's alreadypart of the creation, it’s already part of life.
And sometimes creation is also relaxing.OF: And where does that come from? Like,
did you come from an artistic background?NS: Not at all. My parents are both working-class,
working in normal ordinary jobs. Yeah. Actually,this is the only job that I feel attracted to.
(15:04):
I was also working in an office. But if workingtowards a commercial purpose, I just feel really
vain inside. So that's why making art is morelike a therapy, kind of thing. So every day,
I feel like it's not wasted. I'm workingtowards a purpose that is however meaningful
(15:26):
to me. That's why I could live happily everyday. If I do anything else. I don't think I'll
be as happy as I am right now. I just want to beable to create, and work on interesting projects,
and go to different places, and get toknow other interesting people like you.
OF (15:45):
I'm not sure… If you saw my art, I'm not sure we would be friends.
NS (15:49):
I’m quite curious now. OF
I've never been able to draw.NS: But you know what, you don't need
to draw well. So I had a had a discussion withthis French studio. Both are very philosophical
thinking artists, they make really nice drawings,and they would draw blindly, or they would draw
(16:13):
with left hands. So it's all for breakingthe normal rules of what a good drawing is.
Maybe you just draw blindly, but you come upwith like an abstract painting. I was really
inspired by them. So maybe your drawing islike masterpieces, you just don't know it.
OF (16:29):
OK, I'll do it. And then I'll be a famous artist for all to see. Well, thank you so much
Nini, that's great to find out all about whatyou're doing. Well now let's move on to Part 2,
which are the 10 questions.NS: Yep.
[Part 2]OF: So, ready?
NS (16:48):
Yes. OF
what is your favourite China-related fact?NS: I don't really know if this is a fact.
But I like how surreal China is, and howfast it changes. And how alive this place is.
OF (17:04):
Can you think of any examples? NS
of Coca-Cola is precious. I remember this, myparents would take me to the street, and also
some kind of field trip. And I would beg them tobuy me a can of Coca-Cola, this would be a rare
chance maybe for the whole season, I could geta sip of that. But now if I go to a supermarket,
(17:27):
I see all these products on the shelves. I'm justlike "Where is this place?” It's just a short,
maybe 10-20 years, and it has changed somuch. New things are popping up all the time,
it’s really surreal living in this place.OF: Well, you mentioned the word ‘surreal’.
So I wonder, is that what you're trying
to encapsulate in your art?NS: Yes. And I want to keep
(17:49):
that feeling, but also add a poetic twist.OF: Do you have a favourite word or phrase that
you'd like to teach other people in Chinese?NS: Yes, it's called 自然而然 [zìrán’ érrán].
It's like very Zen, and self-satisfying, andnatural flow. So I think in oriental philosophy,
(18:12):
there is something that's not really describablewith words. And sometimes you cannot force things
to happen, but rather feel the feeling, andgo with the flow, and be true to yourself.
Yeah, when you said “go with the flow”, I think that's the closest thing that I would
describe it as. Like, “go with the natural flow”.NS: Yes.
(18:34):
OK. I'm going to start to use that. Thank you. What is your favourite destination within China?
NS (18:41):
I will say my hometown. OF
Which is 南京 [Nánjīng]. Because I really like going back, and visiting my parents, and stay with
them. It makes me really, really calm.OF: What do you think is the best
thing about living there, not as a tourist.NS: Actually, Nanjing is a very slow city. And
(19:01):
there was an ancient capital of The Six Dynasties.So it kept a lot of great walls from the 明 [Míng]
Dynasty, and 朱元璋 [Zhū Yuánzhāng] especially.So it's a very historical place. And it's very
green, because it has a mountain in the heartof the city, and a big lake. So if you get out
of the train station, you see this big lake. Andwhen I was little, I always pedalled boats on it,
(19:27):
and also went to the mountain a lot, just forclimbing, and you can go to the astronaut centre
on it. So 南京 [Nánjīng] is a place I thinkthat’s really good for living a chill life.
OF (19:39):
Lucky. If you left China, what would you miss the most, and what would you miss the least?
NS (19:44):
I would miss people most, like my parents and friends. And the least would
be construction noise. Damn, it's just too much.OF: But actually I've got to a point now where
I just focus it out. I didn't hear it very much.NS: Ah but it’s everywhere. Sometimes, like in my
(20:06):
studio, you can hear this from a building faraway. I go home, and it’s 11pm at night, and
somebody's sawing wood out there. And I literallyjumped off the stairs, and I was shouting at them,
like “What do you think you're doing? Grandmas andkids are sleeping, I'm going to call the police!”
(20:27):
And they're like “Why do you make it a big deal?”People are so ignorant about this. This is the
thing I hate the most.OF: Yeah.
It’s crazy. OF
next question, is there anything that stillsurprises you about modern life in China?
Yes, actually recently, I got invited to do a very interesting
(20:48):
new project. And this surprises me, becauseI wasn't expecting they would come to some
artist like me. This is a VR project. Yeah.OF: Where's your favourite place to go out,
to eat or drink or just hang out?NS: Actually, my friend’s studio.
So I have several artist friends, theyall have studios around my studio’s area,
(21:13):
pretty downtown. And I go in there, see whatthey're making recently. And also sometimes
invite people here to my studio, having a beer.OF: Right. It's funny, you're never really far
away from art. Even when you're hangingout, you’re hanging out around art.
Oh my god, it's terrible. OF
worst purchase you've made in China?NS: Best purchase. I bought some artist friends
(21:39):
merchandise. Like, they sculpted some candles.So it's like a sculpture, but it's also a candle,
then you can burn them, and the sculpture justmelts. I think the idea is really cool. It's
also something that you can just buy easily, it’slike 100 快 [kuài] or something. So this is what
I'm talking about, these new ideas. And people arealso adapting arts into everyday life, and making
(22:04):
products. And they make that, and sell that, andthey have more money to go back and make more
ideas. And I like buying stuff like this. Yeah.OF: Great. What's your favourite WeChat
sticker? OK, can you describe this?NS: I don't know, this is… In Chinese
(22:27):
it’s called 草泥马 [cǎonímǎ]. It’s likehis kind of… I don't know what kind of
animal this is, like a sheep or something.OF: I think it's a llama. Is it a llama?
Oh yeah yeah, I think it’s a llama, that’s the name of it. And I just like his face.
It’s like just chewing and like “Eh?” He justturns into like “Whaaaat?” It's really silly.
And people say it’s like me. So I use this a lot.OF: What is your go-to song to sing at KTV?
(22:53):
Linkin Park. Yeah, because I don't really go to KTV. The last time I went
there was maybe several years ago. And whenI was in high school, Linkin Park was really
popular. So it was like me and some classmates,and they are doing the rap parts, and I’m doing
the singing parts. It’s a long time ago.OF: I kind of want to see you do that now.
(23:17):
You're very softly spoken, but I can see thatyou have a punk side to you that would come out
pretty strong.NS: Yeah.
OF (23:24):
And finally, what other China-related media sources or news outlets do you rely on?
NS (23:31):
Before there were a lot of art magazines, like ‘Art World’ or something. And you can see
the latest exhibitions. But now it's morelike people are sharing their information
in their Moments on WeChat mainly. Yeah.OF: Right. Well, thank you so much, Nini.
Oh thank you, Oscar. OF
(23:51):
leave - it's the same question I ask every guest- who do you recommend that I interview next?
I would recommend Zovi. Zovi is a friend who is a comic artist. And she is also in a
band. And she does this amazing comic art groupcalled ‘Shaving in the Dark’. And she is very
(24:13):
enthusiastic about putting a community togetherto do creative output. And she's bilingual,
really smart, really talented. So Ithink you should have a chat with her.
OF (24:24):
Oh, that's great. I actually ran into her because I was doing a presentation. And she was
in the audience doing live art. As I was doingit, she was drawing it, it was so impressive.
NS (24:35):
Yeah, I think she does that every day, like her job. But yeah,
she's really smart and really fast.OF: OK, I can't wait to talk with her.
Thanks so much, Nini.NS: Thank you.
[Outro]OF: So the first thing I
would like to point out is Nini’s WeChat sticker.You can see the llama on Facebook and Instagram,
just search for ‘mosaicofchina’ there. AndI'm always trying to encourage people to
(24:58):
comment about their understanding about all thingsChinese in the community on WeChat. But this time,
if you know the double meaning of this sticker,then maybe keep it to yourself just this once.
To join that community, please add me on my WechatID: mosaicofchina, and I'll add you to the group
there. Apart from that, you can also see Nini'sobject, which was one of her prints. And there are
(25:19):
another couple of examples of her work there too.There are some photos of the studio IdleBeats,
with her collaborator Gregor. And there's animage from the Singularity Fair in 成都 [Chéngdū]
that she mentioned. It's a lot bigger in scalethan I was picturing in my head. And finally,
there are a few photos of her favourite placeto visit in China, her hometown of 南京 [Nánjīng].
Before I leave, mentioning the historical city of南京 [Nánjīng] offers me the excuse to give a long
(25:44):
overdue shout-out to The China History Podcast,or ‘CHP’, presented by Laszlo Montgomery. If you
heard Episode 08 with Vy Vu, she mentionedthat there's a history podcast, which is one
of our favourite sources of information, butwe didn't name it. And if you listened to last
week's bonus episode that I recorded with ShannonMartin, I also mentioned a great history podcast,
and again I didn't name it. Well, it’s this one.Chinese history is extremely daunting, there's
(26:09):
this dynasty and that dynasty, and this Emperorand that battle. If you're like me, you'll have no
clue where to even start. Well, Laszlo’s podcastis where you should start. And if I sound a little
bit flustered while saying this, it's becauseLaszlo is in the Mosaic of China WeChat community,
which makes it all the more embarrassingthat I haven't mentioned it until now.
Mosaic of China is me, Oscar Fuchs; extraediting support from Milo de Prieto,
(26:32):
artwork by Denny Newell, and China support fromAlston Gong. Next week's episode is a fun one,
and it'll be the last one before thewinter break. So I'll see you then.
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