December 6, 2021 • 50 mins
I’m joined by Erica Alini to talk about her new book: Money Like You Mean It - Personal Finance Tactics for the REAL world.
Erica is the personal finance reporter at Global News, where she writes about all things personal finance, business, and economics. She’s also the author of Money123, a popular weekly newsletter on money matters. Her writing has also appeared in the Wall Street Journal, Maclean’s and the Globe and Mail, among others.
You can also follow her on twitter here.
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Episode Transcript
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Preet Banerjee (00:00):
Can you tell that story about the David
(00:02):
Letterman Show and the guest whowas on that show and what they
talked about?
Erica Alini (00:08):
Yes, and I am blanking out on the guest.
Preet Banerjee (00:12):
Well, you know what, I kind of didn't mention
the name because like, because Iwould feel really bad because I
am Indian and she is Indian ITand that I'm not 100% Sure, and
that a pronounced I'm prettysure it's a Shuar URI. Yes,
that's right. This is so bad,that I'm an Indian, and I'm
like.
(00:47):
This is mostly money, and I'myour host, Preet Banerjee, and
on the show today, I am joinedby Erica aleni, to talk about
her new book money likeimmediate personal finance
tactics for the real world.
Erica is the personal financereporter at Global News where
she writes about all thingspersonal finance, business and
economics. She's also the authorof money 123, a very popular
(01:08):
weekly newsletter on moneymatters. And her writing has
also appeared in The Wall StreetJournal, McLean's and the Globe
and Mail among others. Erica,welcome to the show.
Erica Alini (01:22):
Thanks so much for having me.
Preet Banerjee (01:24):
No, it's my pleasure. I've been looking
forward to our conversation.
I've been a big fan of your workat att global. Always enjoy
reading your pieces. So veryexcited when I heard that you
had a book coming out toencapsulate all the knowledge
that you've been, you know,imparting to the people in bite
size content, but now puttogether in one place. So let's
start with the title of thisbook money like you mean it
(01:48):
personal finance tactics for thereal world? So what what do you
mean by money? like you mean it?
Erica Alini (01:58):
That's a That's a great question. I'm glad you
asked. It took me forever tocome up with that title. But I
had the idea from from thebeginning. And the idea was that
personal finance is becomingmore complicated. And so you
kind of need to level up. Andyou need to know more in order
to make good decisions. And youneed to think outside the box.
(02:22):
And so it kind of needs a bit ofa feisty attitude. And that's
how I landed eventually on onmoney, like you mean it. And
that's why I also use a word,tactics. Because it's kind of
like the whole idea is, it'sgetting tougher out there. And
you need to learn to fightsmarter and not harder.
Preet Banerjee (02:42):
Right. Okay. So I like the premise already,
because I think it correct me ifI'm wrong. But so what I'm
hearing is that, you know, ifyou take a more passive
approach, and we'll talk aboutinvesting, if you take a more
passive approach with yourmoney, and just watch the world
go by you, you're probably goingto fall behind because the world
has gotten so much more complex,there's a lot of noise. And so
(03:03):
if you're going to be seriousabout achieving your potential,
when it comes to manage yourmoney, you have to meet it,
right, you can't just hope forthe best and hope that things
work out is that basically thepremise of this book.
Erica Alini (03:17):
So what I was thinking about, and this is
something that I've beenthinking about for a very long
time, but my, what I'm thinkingis, personal finance is becoming
more and more DIY, they, thereare more and more choices out
there. So investing, forexample, right? Like there's
(03:39):
been this great democraticsession of investing, which is
great on one end, because it'sso easy for everyone to access
the stock market, which used tobe a very elite thing. On the
other hand, it also means it'ssuper easy to make really costly
mistake with a few thumb strokesand lose money, you really can't
afford to lose. I'm thinkingabout, you know, spending and
(04:04):
borrowing, right? There arearmies of people out there very
smart, very well paid, whosemain job is to get used to
spending more and more even whenit comes to insurance, for
example, right? Like, gettinghome insurance used to be this
like very regular thing. Youknow, you buy a house, everyone
knows you get home insurance,and Bob's your uncle. But now,
(04:28):
you have to know that, you know,you have to look you know, is
the house you're buying into aflood zone in a flood zone.
What's the sewer system? Do youneed flood insurance? And if you
do, it's an optional thing thatyou usually have to ask for you
have to now to ask for floodinsurance. And those are just
some examples. And that's whyI've been thinking like no to
(04:51):
get by and this is true of everygeneration. Like you really need
to know more than knowledge basethe standard just to be able to
make Good decisions is higherthan it used to be. And I feel
like if you are a millenniallike me, an ancient millennial,
or a Gen Z, it's even more. Soyou have to be nimble, you have
(05:14):
to know more you have to be, youknow, you have to go out and get
what you want you want to get.
We're facing an absolutelybonkers real estate market. And
we're getting out of the gate wehave most of us have student
loans, which, you know, weighyou down just when you're
supposed to take off in life.
(05:35):
So, no, I feel like that thatwas the spirit of the book, like
it really, it is a fight. Andthis is a book that tells you,
you know, a few tactics thatwill improve your chances of
reaching the financial goalsthat that you want to reach.
Preet Banerjee (05:50):
Okay, I think I think I get this now. So I 100%
agree with you in sort of thepremise that you set up, which
is that it's the access todifferent things, in general, is
a lot higher than it has been.
And that's a double edged sword.
So it's so much easier forpeople to start investing with
lower amounts to invest. It'seasier to go around and get
(06:14):
insurance quotes. But do youknow you're getting the right
insurance for all your needs,and you just don't know what you
don't know. So on one hand,because of technology, and just
the change in business strategy,people going directly to the
consumer, there's all this greatchoice. But there's also all
these opportunities to makedecisions that maybe aren't
(06:35):
optimal. Alright, so I get that.
So who is the the audience thatsounds like this is skewing
younger? So Gen Zed, and Gen Y,which Gen Y is the same as
millennial. So Gen Y and GenZed? Is that? Is that the target
for this book?
Erica Alini (06:49):
Yeah, if you say, you know, I, Gen Y is what
people used to call Millennialsbefore the millennial terms are
became prevalent. I think youkind of Dating Yourself.
Preet Banerjee (07:02):
Right? The context of you know, where does
the Zed come from forgenerations? Zed? Well, it came
after y, which is what we usedto call millennials. So maybe I
am dating myself, but
Erica Alini (07:15):
I gave myself an introduction. I was like, back
in the day is to be Gen Y. And Iremember that.
Preet Banerjee (07:22):
Right? Right.
When was uphill both ways toschool, blah, blah. Right. So
anyway, so So is that theaudience? Those generations, Gen
Zed, and whatever the other oneis, that was before them.
Erica Alini (07:35):
Yeah, so it's, it's it's millennials. And like I
said, I'm one of the older ones.
And then Gen Z. And I would say,you know, Gen Z is, is
generations that are huge,right? I think my six year old
is at the tail end of Gen Z's byGen Z. I mean, the older ones,
the ones are, you know, everyonewho's finished school and is
trying to get into the world ofwork. So basically, like, I'd
say, 20 year olds to 40 yearolds, right, man.
Preet Banerjee (08:00):
Okay, and so when you say that you are an
ancient millennial, so is thatmean? Like, are you like,
bordering like you like aXenial? I think it's called it's
which is straddling millennialand Gen X, I am solidly in Gen
X. So that makes me superancient. So choose your words
carefully.
Erica Alini (08:18):
I always call them x annual. Okay, see,
Preet Banerjee (08:21):
I don't I've only ever seen it in print. I
don't know how it's pronounced.
But yeah, that makes sense.
Okay.
Erica Alini (08:26):
But yes, I am one of those.
Preet Banerjee (08:28):
Okay, so now you've been at global covering
personal finance for how long?
Erica Alini (08:35):
Come on, yeah, almost five years, five years?
And
Preet Banerjee (08:37):
what are the big, big mistakes, or the big
stories that you've seen whileon this beat that just makes you
you know, your eyes pop out ofyour head, covering personal
finance.
Erica Alini (08:49):
So one of the ones that I kind of used in in the
book sort of indirectly. I amnot going to say, you know, I
don't see crazy stories aboutpeople spending, you know, crazy
amounts or taking on enormousamounts of debt or anything like
that, but it's mostly about sortof naivete what I what I see a
(09:13):
lot. And so for example, I hadthis story about this guy,
really, really smart guy whojust got an fantastic job. It
was right out of universityalready making more and wiener
to buy a house and had alwaysbeen very strict. And he he was
(09:36):
always using a debit card andhad been saving up and had saved
up you know, had bought a car incash and motorcycle and cash
and, and now he wanted to buy ahouse from from the home. He'd
never been using a credit card.
So yeah, no credit. So he had toget his parents to, you know, to
co sponsor the mortgage. Andthis was shocking to him and to
(09:57):
his Parents. And that's a storythat I kind of used in my, in
the book when I when I explainhow, you know, credit scores
work, I was like, you know, likethis guy reminded me of, at the
time I was reading my son wasobsessed with Captain America's
you could be Captain America,you know, like the young kid
(10:18):
doing the right thing and
Preet Banerjee (10:22):
didn't crack file for Captain America right
because that if
Erica Alini (10:25):
you do not use credit, the banks do not care.
Preet Banerjee (10:29):
Okay, so this is a I think a good segue to talk
about, I think one of the most,the issue that will get the most
amount of clicks, the mostamount of podcast downloads is
anything to do with real estate.
And so in the last five years,Have you have you seen this,
this divide between the havesand the have nots in terms of
(10:51):
the ability to buy a house? Likewould you say that we are in a
housing crisis? Oh, definitely.
Erica Alini (11:00):
I honestly, I've heard that we were in a housing
crisis since I started coveringthe housing market, which back
then was 2010. I've been on thatbeat since since then. I mean,
Maclean's. I was on McLean's atthe time. I don't know if you
remember, but we had this issuewith like a house going up in
flames. That we know.
Preet Banerjee (11:22):
Years later, yeah, it actually meant housing
is on fire. Right. And itcontinued to be on fire for the
next 11 years. And even the lastsix months, it feels like it's
even accelerated. And so youknow, money's cheap right now to
to rent, which is, you know,that's one factor. But we also
saw that the average gift of adownpayment is, you know, six
(11:47):
figures for someone in Toronto.
And so they're relying on somuch help. And so if your
parents weren't on the housingladder, and they don't have
equity to tap into it, it'salmost like a sure bet that
you're not going to get a house.
If your parents don't own ahouse. How do you feel like this
is affecting the perspective ofthe next generation of financial
(12:08):
consumers?
Erica Alini (12:11):
It's a it's a huge issue, I would say it's the
number one issue facingmillennials and Gen Z. And
frankly, even even amongmillennials, right, like
millennials, who were a littlebit older, kind of some of us
gone in just in time, like Ibought in 2015. With help from
my parents, and my in laws, andwe've already dodged to huge
(12:36):
housing loans since then, and wewouldn't have been able to get
in even with help. Had we waitedeven, frankly, even a year,
because the housing marketstarted heating up. We just like
lucked out that 2015 was like wehad the crisis, the energy
crisis in Alberta, and thingskind of cooled off for a little
bit. And that's just why we won.
We happen to buy a house. Sothere's an enormous and not only
(12:58):
a generational divide, but ahuge divide even within Yeah,
the younger generation.
Preet Banerjee (13:05):
Yeah, starting to hear people with
homeownership guilt. And, youknow, so for a while we're
there, people were talking aboutbuyers regret buyer's remorse,
they get a house and like, wow,these big, big mortgage payments
and property tax, and all thisother stuff to pay for
maintenance. And so they werehouse rich and cash poor. And
(13:28):
now you're starting to hearstories about people who have
guilt about being able to buy ahome, when a lot of people
around may be frozen outforever, you know, people in
their friends circle. So thepsychology behind housing is
really I like I agree 100% thatit's been, you know, crisis
(13:48):
levels for a long time. But doyou feel that? Do you feel any
guilt of being ones who got insort of before things ran away?
Erica Alini (13:57):
Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And not just that,
but there's also all this shamearound getting money from your
parents, this is like this, thisnotion, right? That your your
your chances financially dependon on your parents. That doesn't
doesn't feel good at all. Ithink it's a it's a huge issue.
(14:19):
There's a lot of anger outthere, which is completely
understandable. And the book issort of addresses that, you
know, whether you should getmoney from from the Bank of mom
and dad. And one of the thingsthat I that I tried to do is the
same time acknowledge that thisis a huge problem, and it is
(14:39):
fostering income inequality andwe are going down a path. We
probably don't want to go downas a society. And at the same
time though, you need a house tolive in. And if your family
lives in a big city and you wantto be close to your family and
your family can help you. Myposition is get that help you
need the house you know you'renot speculating you you're
(15:00):
occupying a house like you wouldin a normal in a normal
situation and shame. The onlything that shame does is, you
know, it makes you hide it notwant to talk about money within
your family, sort of like kids,adult kids and parents kind of
do things hush hush, withoutacknowledging what's going on
(15:22):
without having an openconversation, like pretending it
didn't happen, which thenusually breeds misunderstanding
and family conflict. And on theother hand, shame leads people
to not want to talk about thefact that they got this help
from their parents, which inturn, you know, makes people
wonder how miraculously you havea house and they don't, and
(15:44):
maybe you know, something thatthey don't, right. And I feel
like you know, like, get thehelp if you need the house, but
be very open about it with yourfriends, that you got help. And
it doesn't mean you have tospill your guts and, you know,
say exactly how much you got andhow much your parents gave you.
You're not Donald Trump, but noone needs to see your tax
(16:06):
returns.
Preet Banerjee (16:08):
But they will.
Like still like his presidency,and hopefully, well, hopefully,
it's just the one term, we'restill never gonna see it. Right.
And he's probably gonna runagain, and we probably still
won't see it.
Erica Alini (16:24):
But, you know, but do do acknowledge that help.
Preet Banerjee (16:27):
Right. Okay.
Now, one of the stories right atthe end of your book, I think is
is interesting to tack onto thispart of our conversation about
shame, you know, living withyour parents getting help from
your parents. Can you tell thatstory about the David Letterman
Show and the guest who was onthat show and what they talked
about?
Erica Alini (16:47):
Yes, and I am blanking out on the
Preet Banerjee (16:50):
guest. Well, you know what, I kind of didn't
mention the name because like,because I would feel really bad
because I am Indian, and she isIndian IT and that I'm not 100%
Sure and that to pronounce. I'mpretty sure it's a Shuar URI.
Yes, that's right. This is sobad, that I'm an Indian. And I'm
(17:10):
like,
Erica Alini (17:13):
I checked, I checked the spelling, you know,
million times. And then therewas the issue that she changed
her last name since thatLetterman clip and which one
were we going to use?
discretion? But yeah, sorry, Iwas also uncertain how to
pronounce it. No, I think you'vegot it right. Save one more
time. And then I'll try to saythe same.
Preet Banerjee (17:31):
Well, sing it twice the same time is almost as
hard as getting it up the firsttime. I think it's ash warrior,
right?
Erica Alini (17:39):
Yes, I think so too. That sounds really
Preet Banerjee (17:42):
gotta hold my mom isn't listening. She's gonna
like throw a shoe virtuallythrough the airwaves. Okay, so
anyways, tell the story.
Erica Alini (17:49):
Okay. Yeah. So I had I'm sorry, I've seen I used
to, there was a period of mylife where I used to watch David
Letterman clips at night. Longdistance, my husband was, you
know, teaching California and Iwas in Toronto. And that was my
pastime. And I stumbled uponthis clip, and it has stayed
(18:10):
with me for decades, until Iactually wrote the book. I knew
I would use it someday. And Ilove that clip. And I have to
say, I full disclosure, I'mItalian, and not I don't mean
Italian Canadian, I was born andgrew up in Italy. And so I have
that kind of culturalbackground. And I have to, I
think, you know, Indian familiesand Italian families have a lot
in common. So that clip reallyspoke to me. And it was, it was
(18:34):
her on on Letterman, and she waspromoting her, he should just
sort of had a bit the view onthe Hollywood scene. And and so
she was promoting her her latestmovie, and then, you know,
Letterman throws her one of hissignature curveballs and was
like, Is it true that you stilllive with your parents, and I
(18:56):
love that she would not have it.
And she came back and him andwas like, Yeah, I'm still
leaving my parents. And inIndia, it's totally acceptable.
And we don't need to make anappointment, you know, weeks in
advance, have dinner with ourparents. And she and she drew
the applause and I was like, wayto go. Right. Yeah. And, and so
one of the argument, you know, Iuse that, that clip and I
(19:21):
mentioned that clip it in thebook and I and I, you know, use
that to to argue that you know,we have this enormous stigma in
the US in North America in USand Canada against you know,
getting help from your parentsand living with your parents
past, you know, a certain age orat you know, are 22 or whatever
it is. And it's it's very it's aNorth Americans in the Anglo
(19:47):
Saxon thing, you know, likethere are so many cultures in
which this is not true. Aleaving one Indian mean, and now
they're, you know, really if yougo around the world, this is
like an In my opinion, it has alot to do with, with wealth, you
know, like there was a period,it didn't used to be the case
(20:08):
that people would get out andstrike out on their own
necessarily, even in NorthAmerica, it became a thing when
it became possible economicallyto do so. And in a lot of
countries, it's so not so easyto do. So a living one has a
humongous youth unemployment.
(20:29):
And so people still live withtheir parents. And it's much
more more acceptable that you'regoing to need to stay and sit
tight and live in your childhoodbedroom for much, much longer to
build yourself up financiallyuntil you're ready to finally
break free. And it's not alwaysan ideal situation. But we have
to get rid of the stigma even inNorth America and recognize that
(20:50):
it was tied to a very specifichistorical context and economic
context of opportunity, right?
Like the the the baby boomers,had enormous economic
opportunity, and were able tostrike out on their own early
on. And that's fantastic. Butwe're not in the same situation.
And it should be completely finefor someone to, you know, live
(21:12):
in their parents basement, ifthey are saving up to two for a
big downpayment. And you know,and the parents can afford to,
you know, to do let them leaveevent free, for example,
Preet Banerjee (21:27):
yes, certainly around the world looking at
cultural differences. And someof that is sort of imported into
Canada being such a multigeneration, multi cultural sort
of melting pot of a lot ofdifferent immigrant groups. But
you know, having two, three,sometimes four generations in
the same house is not uncommonaround the world. But I want to
(21:49):
touch upon something elserelated to cultural differences
and you having growing up inItaly. So I know that in Europe,
there's some things that arejust you know, people's
perspectives are quite a bitdifferent. So for example, in
Berlin city in Germany, the rateof renter's is like 80% 80% of
people in Berlin rent. And sothey don't have the same sort of
(22:11):
stigma with homeownership. But alot of people are renters. But
another thing that I think is alittle bit different is the use
of credit cards. I think inGermany, this was a couple
years, years ago, when I lookedat the stats, but something like
only one in six people usecredit cards in Germany. But I
want to ask you about creditusage here in North America and
(22:34):
in Canada. What are you seeing,for better or for worse when it
comes to the different types ofcredit tools, apps, services
that are out there and any trapsthat people should be aware of?
Erica Alini (22:49):
So obviously, we're very fond of credit cards in
North America, and I have tosay, like my Italian background
really served me well therebecause it was like, what not
paying your credit card in fullthe end of the day, like at the
end of the month, like what areyou talking about? It was
completely unthinkable for me,so I have that to be grateful
(23:09):
for. But so in terms of thepandemic, there's been some some
positive trends there. Right. Asyou as you know, the especially
the income support programs forCOVID-19 have helped a lot of
people pay down debt. And thisis something that I was hearing
early on when I was interviewingsort of low income Canadians who
(23:34):
are receiving the Serb and thenthe CRB though some of the
things that they're doing islike finally I can pay off my
credit card bill. On the otherhand, we've been racking up
mortgage debt and obviouslybecause of the tremendous real
estate boom that we've had HELOCthat that's home equity lines of
credit and lines of credits thatare backed by the the equity in
(23:55):
your house. And we've beenracking up those balances as
well. And then the boom in homerenovations and now I've heard
of people using HELOC to placeBitcoin bets and to you know, to
buy real estate with withleverage seems to be the new one
the new big trend. Another trendtwo other trends I guess one is
(24:20):
one is credit debt and the otherone isn't really debt but I sort
of during Sidious little thingsthat make it in my opinion,
harder to to budget and Staywithin your limits. When is the
Buy Now pay later apps whichseemed to be everywhere, and
they really exploded during thepandemic. And the other one is
(24:42):
what Robin talb calledsubscription cream creep, which
I thought was was a great term,the fact that everything is
becoming a subscription. And so,the BNPL probably most people
know at this point what It is.
But it's basically it comes intoin two forms. So perhaps you're
(25:03):
you're shopping online and youget to the checkout. And now you
see that you have an option topay for whatever it is you're
buying in full as usual. Or youcan pay for it in installments,
a tiny little payments overseveral months, right. And we're
not talking about the old Buynow pay later, like buy a
mattress and, you know, forgetabout it for six months, and
(25:24):
then pay in installments, we'retalking about you buy a pair of
shoes for $150 and paying 50 $50installments for three months,
kind of that kind of thing. Andthen you also have BNPL apps now
where you can download the appand shop within the app with
partner, retailers. And then youcan pay for everything in
installments. And so these aretiny little loans, and they're
(25:47):
often interest free, if you payin time. But what I find is
really insidious about BNPL isthat they they anchor in that
there's quite a bit of, youknow, behavioral economists that
will tell you this, that they,they anchor your brain on the
smaller amount of theinstallment payment, rather than
(26:09):
the full amount, whatever it is,you're buying. So you're kind of
thinking, you know, rationallyyou know, the pair of shoes is
under $50, of course, butemotionally, you're thinking
like 50 bucks a month, I canafford that. Let's do it. And
that solves a huge problem forretailers, right, which is
people abandoning their digitalcart, right? Like, he was like,
(26:29):
oh, maybe I'll need to buy theseshoes. And then when you have to
put in your credit cardinformation, like Yeah, can I
really afford? Maybe not, youknow, and people abandon the
cart, right? Like they, theythey put the stuff in, and then
this day, they get cold feet.
terrible pun after issue,analysis. But you know, so it
(26:54):
helps you overcome that sort ofthat moment of doubt. And the
other thing it does is, if youkeep using BNPL, you will end up
with a bunch of small payments.
And we're extremely bad atkeeping track of small payments.
I'm the first one like I, youknow, what happens to me mostly
is, I'll sign up for some trialthing, and then forget to, you
(27:16):
know, cancel it. And then I havethe wideness, like, $10 come out
of my account, right. And so itplays on that it's sick, people
are very good at keeping trackof their big, big bills, they're
not very good at keeping trackof small things. But they really
add up. And, and the other thingthat happens with this, and with
(27:37):
subscriptions, which is anothercategory of small little
payments that eat away yourbudget every month, everything
is becoming a subscription. Andbetween BNPL and subscriptions.
More and more of what used to beyour discretionary expenses are
now turning into fixed expenses.
Preet Banerjee (27:58):
Yeah, very, very interesting insights. Okay. So
another thing that you talkedabout in the book is this,
there's a chapter titled The BigFat retirement myth. So just so
we're on the same page, whichmyth is that?
Erica Alini (28:14):
So the reason I call it retirement retirement
myth is so that the argumentthat I, that I make is that the
concept of retirement is kind offading away,
Preet Banerjee (28:26):
to be retired.
Erica Alini (28:28):
That's the line from your book, which I remember
Preet Banerjee (28:32):
is it I didn't even remember that I just
thought it was clever. Now, itis a line from your book. Shit,
it's been a while since I'veeven crack that open.
Erica Alini (28:45):
So I think it's, it's kind of like becoming a
more, it's less of a sort ofblack and white switch, you
know, from like, working all thetime to suddenly you're, you
know, doing Aquafit classes inFlorida, or, you know, something
like that. It's, it's becomingmore of a gradual shift from
working all the time to workingless. And I think that's how I
(29:08):
see, you know, like, if you're,it's interesting, because
there's, the people tend tothink about different phenomena.
And in my opinion, it's all thesame thing, right? You have the
news coverage about, you know,baby boomers who aren't really
retiring or like, or theypretend to retire, and then they
come back to work or they becomeconsultants. So, you know, they
(29:30):
keep working on on the side alittle bit. And then you have
Gen X is very fond of, you know,the concept of financial
freedom, which usually comes alittle bit before 65 And then
you have millennials who came upwith fire, which is really
financial freedom 2.0 and theextreme and the idea of working
(29:52):
like a maniac and saving likeAmenia until you know, you're 30
or 35, you know, whatever orwhatever super ambitious goal
you want to even set, and thenyou quote unquote, retire. But
when you talk to most sort ofpeople who pursue fire, they're
not really talking about neverworking again for the rest of
(30:13):
their lives, because frankly,what would you do with yourself
for that long, they're talkingabout having the luxury of not
worrying about paying yourbills, and being able to work
less being able to pursue yourdreams, you know, it's still
working, it's just doing thework that you really want, a lot
of the time and traveling andall of that. So all of that, in
(30:35):
my opinion, is just like thisidea of that there's a phase of
your, of your life in which youneed to work super hard and, and
save, and you're kind of in thehamster wheel that you were
saying. And then there's a phaseof your life in which you're
still working, but you're doingwhat you would like to do. And,
you know, and, and you can stopand smell the roses and and
(30:58):
enjoy life a little bit more.
And frankly, only verygradually, you get to the point
where you're not working at all.
Preet Banerjee (31:05):
Right? Yeah, I think there's definitely the the
concept of balance, I think ishas always been important in
terms of figuring out how do youlive for today, while also
planning for tomorrow? I thinkit's more top of mind today,
because I think there's maybe anentire generation maybe to who,
(31:29):
you know, come into theworkforce. And the deck just
seems so incredibly stacked. Interms of alright, you did
everything you were told to doyou you went to school, you
studied hard, you got intocollege, university, study hard,
took on a whole bunch of debtgraduating, and on day one,
you've got a lot of debt, yourincome is maybe a little bit
(31:49):
less than you thought it wouldbe or the work is more
precarious. The you don't havethose, you know, careers where
you stay at the same place, youknow, the entire the entirety of
your career. So you're you'remaybe moving jobs or careers
multiple times, there's no, nosense of loyalty in either
direction. Because why wouldthey be if no one's going to be
(32:11):
loyal to your career, and highhouse prices, you know, maybe
moving in with someone beforegetting married, because you
grew up seeing your previousgeneration, everyone got
divorced or 50% of people. So hetakes a little bit of a
different perspective. And thenyou see, you know, Wall Street,
(32:35):
the financial system gettingbailed out on the backs of the
little guy, and it feels likethere's this this pent up angst
and I don't. And I don't thinkthat's unreasonable, given what
they sort of come into the worldsort of experiencing. And I
wonder if I'd like to get yourthoughts on this. I wonder if
(32:56):
this is part of what explainswhy we seal why we see maybe
more what I'd say Hail Marystrategies with investing.
Whether it be you know, going tocryptocurrency, you know, full
bore, or trading meme stocks orlooking at Community Based
(33:17):
advice, as opposed to sort oftraditional models of advice.
I'd like to hear your thoughtson on, you know, the plight of
the younger financial consumer,and how, again, that that the
hand that they've been dealt, doyou feel that is leading to some
of these behaviors that I thinka lot of people still trying to
(33:38):
figure out? Why are peoplegoing, you know, 90% of their
portfolio in cryptocurrency and10%. In you know, stocks? Seems
like it's kind of like backwardsof what a traditional model of
advice would sort of recommend?
Erica Alini (33:51):
Yes, for sure. I think that there's this idea,
especially if people feel likethey can get into the real
estate market that they have to,they have to get used to the
stock market or crypto and it'stheir only chance to grow their
wealth. And also, there's moreand more people are more and
(34:12):
more disillusioned about work.
You know, like wages mostly for,for a lot of people aren't
moving very fast, even now thatwe have the highest inflation
we've had in about two decades.
I was looking at some employersurveys and they were looking at
for existing employees. Raisesof to 2.5%, which at this point,
(34:36):
it's false. Short. Yeah, so
Preet Banerjee (34:38):
you're actually making less money in real terms.
Exactly. Hey, thanks for anothergreat year. We're gonna pay you
less.
Erica Alini (34:46):
Yes, yeah. Thanks for being a loyal employee.
Here's your word. Yes, no, thesethese Yeah, some hail mary
strategies. You know, like, Igotta like my Bitcoins. My only
my only show hands to make it oryou know some some stock you
know being GameStop or whateverit's It's my only chance to make
(35:09):
it and accumulate wealth and Iyou know I I am not on Tik Tok
only done one video which I needto work on my Tiktok skills.
They're
Preet Banerjee (35:21):
You and me both.
Erica Alini (35:24):
But I am following you know, a lot of a lot of
FinTech finance on Tik Tok. Oh,is
Preet Banerjee (35:31):
that what's called fintech.
Erica Alini (35:35):
And there's a lot of this concept that you know
renting your brain to anemployer like working basically
is not the way to go on the inthe only thing that will work is
accumulating wealth and so thereare all these ideas about how
you can do that.
Preet Banerjee (35:54):
Interesting, interesting stuff. Now, I just
want to ask you just because I'mjust curious, but do you or
anyone your household owncryptocurrencies or anything
exotic like that? We do.
Erica Alini (36:09):
And because I, we bought I bought some I asked my
husband to buy and he's actuallymore into the ins and outs of
how it works. But I wanted whenI was covering cryptocurrency in
the 2017 You know, like when itstarted going, and not so I was
like, you know, I can writeabout this stuff without
(36:30):
actually buying a little bit ofit and figuring out how it
works. So we bought like, Idon't know 150 bucks
Preet Banerjee (36:41):
and what is your experience been with it? And you
know, I'm you know, you talk alittle bit about cryptocurrency
and a little bit about you know,kind of like defining what non
fungible tokens NF T's are inyour book, but what is your
what, what do you tell peoplebecause the the audience of your
book, The the level of interestin cryptocurrencies and
(37:05):
decentralized finance is prettyhuge. So So what is your what is
your advice to people? Becausethese, I would say that next to
real estate, cryptocurrency isone of the biggest questions I
get from younger generations,what do you tell people
generally? And what are theyasking you about?
Erica Alini (37:23):
Yeah, so, you know, despite the crash, the latest of
Bitcoin crash? No, we've donereally well with our 150. What I
what I tell it so as you know,there are, you know, there's
pretty different opinions outthere, even among financial
(37:43):
planners and investmentadvisors, I like a lot have very
different opinions aboutweather. Honestly, the range of
opinions is from whether youshould touch cryptocurrency at
all, and a lot of people that Iknow and trust includes advice
I'd like say absolutely not. Andthere are some people who, you
(38:05):
know, some some experts I'vebeen talking to for a long time,
who I consider to be very goodand who say, yes, maybe a little
bit, you know, between anywherebetween one and 5% of your
portfolio, so no one that haveye no advocate, you know,
putting more than 5%.
Preet Banerjee (38:26):
So, what you're saying is do not use your HELOC
to buy a portfolio of justBitcoin.
Erica Alini (38:33):
Do not use your HELOC to buy any investment.
Preet Banerjee (38:40):
Yeah, you know, I was I was actually I was just
prepping a video, because I havebeen getting tons of questions
on the cryptocurrency,specifically from people who are
not following or researching orstudying at all. And the reason
that they're interested ispurely FOMO. It's purely They've
seen what other people have beentalking about in terms of
(39:04):
returns and some session allthis stuff. And so I wanted to
sort of, you know, give somethoughts on it and disclosure,
I'm a part owner of thiscompany, but there's a company
called wealth scope, and theyit's a portfolio analytics
company, you can actually modelthese what if scenarios to see,
you know, what would happen toyour portfolio if you added in
allocations to various thingslike cryptocurrency, so I
(39:26):
created this typical 6040portfolios 60% equities index
funds around the world 40% shortterm bonds, and then I compared
it side by side to a portfoliowhich was the same except it had
a 2.5% allocation to Bitcoin, a2.5% allocation to ether and
(39:48):
that 5% weighting tocryptocurrencies, the risk
attribution, the risk that itaccounted for was 46% of the
portfolio's risk came from 5%The holdings. And it's not to
say that it's volatile is anunderstatement. But it is
(40:08):
absolutely wild. So I'm justputting together some thoughts
on that. But it's yeah, it'sit's I think it's one of those
questions that you get every daythese days when it comes to
personal finance.
Erica Alini (40:19):
And go ahead, sorry, Preet. Now if I can add a
little bit more about crypto andwhere I land on there, so
really, I feel like the onlything I can say about crypto, as
you just said is what we knowfor sure. It is it is extremely
volatile, will they get a littlebit less volatile in the future?
(40:39):
I've certainly heard thosearguments, but I don't know.
Preet Banerjee (40:43):
Yeah, I think one of the I think one of the
challenges is also when you lookat the different sources of
information, there's just somany I'll call them characters
out there that who, you know,they don't come across as
credible, but they have thesevery strong opinions. And I
think, you know, there's,there's a certain amount of
shaming that that goes around,when it comes to oh, I can't
(41:04):
believe you're not invested inBitcoin. And I think this to a
certain extent that actuallyWard's off some people because
they're like, Nah, my red flagindicators kind of going up,
because you're just getting kindof like you're in a cult. But I
would definitely say if the onlyreason you're interested in it
is because you've been hearingabout the returns that some
people have made, and you don'tknow anything else about it. At
(41:26):
the very least, you should dosome research before you make
any investment. And this tiesinto the last sort of chapter I
want to talk to you about aboutyour book, which is learning
about investing is not optional.
Right? That's your sort ofperspective. So can you talk a
little bit about that?
Erica Alini (41:42):
Yeah, and that's the in the sort of money like
you mean it theme of like, well,you know, maybe for a long time,
I think there's been this ideaof personal finance is like sort
of divided into groups. Soright, there's like, there's
budgeting and, and day to daymoney management, and everyone
can get in on that and spendLeslie you make it real,
(42:03):
everyone can can get on board.
And then it was investing, whichwas like the advanced stuff,
right? That though you kind oflike would only get into if you
were interested or you feelconfident, or you thought you
were going to math and whatever.
And now I'm like, Oh, youabsolutely need to learn about
investing, it is as essential ashaving basic budgeting skills.
(42:26):
And it's also difficult, becausethey obviously they don't teach
investing in school, and I cancompletely understand why they
don't I think the lobbyingindustry would be crazy if they
did.
Preet Banerjee (42:39):
The only the only teachings that I see in
schools are the stock marketcompetitions, which is like the,
if someone came to me and said,Hey, we want you to design a
curriculum for teaching peopleabout investing that is the
absolute worst, as they Oh,let's do a stock market
competition. That is the worstway to teach someone about
investing.
Erica Alini (43:01):
Yes. And so by learning about investing, so,
you know, as I they make clearin the book, so I'm not talking
about, you know, sophisticatedstrategies, or, you know,
knowing what options andderivatives and what have you,
(43:21):
like, all what you really needto understand, I think that the
basics for me, as you know, assomeone who learned about
investing, frankly, as an adult,I it's not something like in my
mid 20s Say, It was a politicalscience major, this is not where
my head was, in my early 20s ishis risk, right? Like, what
(43:43):
you're doing, how it works. Andand the very real risk that if
you don't invest, you will nothave enough for whatever it is
that you think about when youthink about retirement, right.
And we can all argue aboutwhether we we want to retire to
what age and doing what, but Ithink everyone agrees that they
(44:04):
would like to, at some pointhave the ability financially to
scale back. Right. And if youdon't put money in the stock
market these days, unless,unless you're very lucky. And
you have a career in governmentand that public pension is well
funded. You You gotta you gottainvest and you have to know what
(44:24):
you're doing. And there arefantastic options these days to,
you know, there are very loweffort and low cost to invest.
But they usually don't involve,you know, a training app and new
sort of trying to figure outwhich stocks are going to go up
and down. It's very important tounderstand how passive investing
(44:47):
index investing works, and whythat's a good solid strategy for
the long term that can carry youfrom sort of when you graduate
school, to when you're finallyready to retire. Whatever
Preet Banerjee (45:00):
Yeah, I think anyone who's graduating from
college and university todayforwards, the proportion that
will use a traditional model ofadvice is pretty close to zero,
it's not zero. But it's prettyclose, I mean, just the world
that they've grown up in, theyare used to having things
available at their fingertips onan app on a on a tablet, what
(45:23):
have you. And the FinancialServices has not kept pace with
that those changing consumerpreferences. And I think to your
point, you know, learning aboutinvesting is not optional,
whether you do it yourself ornot, because I would say to
people, you can't just delegatewithout having any effort put
into learning about how to speakthe same language, you don't
(45:46):
need to know everything. But youneed to be able to, you know, be
at that table and meaningfullyhave a conversation about things
like risk, asset allocation,goal setting. And just the very
basics, at the very least, andthen some people might find it,
you know, it's not as difficultas I thought it was going to be
to grasp these concepts. Andwe're older and more, and I want
(46:06):
a little bit more time, whateverit is, you know, people want to
do it themselves or use advice,whatever form of advice that is,
you still have to put in sometime to sort of figure out the
basics. I think that's greatadvice. Okay, so Erica, we're
going to wrap up here, but asyou know, everyone gets a
commercial. So the last, youknow, two minutes, the floor is
(46:28):
yours, promote, share the links,where you can get the book when
it goes on sale, if you want tosort of make a plug that, hey,
it's December 9 is when it'scoming out what a great stocking
stuffer, this book would be, youknow, feel free to do that.
Whatever you like.
Erica Alini (46:44):
Absolutely. So yeah, so I just wrote a book. So
that's what I want to pitch. SoI would say, so with money like
you, like you mean it I, what Ireally tried to bring together
was, I started out as a as aneconomics writer, before I was a
personal finance writer. So I'vebeen in, I've been a reporter
(47:06):
for over a decade, and it waskind of evenly split in between
economics and personal finance.
And this is what you'll find inthe book. So it's a book about
personal finance, that yes, it'sfull of sort of actionable tips.
But it also explains, especiallyif you're a millennial, and Gen
Z, why you kind of feel thisangst that you can't reach the
(47:27):
goals that the personal yonder,the money goals, the financial
goals that your parents seem toso easily have reached when they
were your age. And it's thereare powerful sort of economic
and technological forces atwork, that are complicating
personal finance and making itharder to reach those goals. And
(47:52):
this book both explains sort ofsome techniques that you can use
to get where you need to bewhere you want to go anyways,
but also gives you the broadercontext to context to understand
that, you know, it's not yourfault, you know, you can make
good decisions, but you reallyneed to understand what's going
(48:14):
on around you these days. Andthe other thing that I wanted to
do with this book is give us alittle bit of a comprehensive
personal finance one on oneguide, there is a wealth of
great information out there, I'mbiased in depth, you know, very
accessible about personalfinance on the internet, but it
(48:35):
is scattered all over the web.
And I kind of just wanted to putit in one book and so this book,
you know, it's got it's gotdebt, it's got housing, it's got
work which is something that alot of personal finance books
don't discuss. So how to makemoney you know, as a you know,
the gig economy side hustleswhat's worth it and you know, to
(48:58):
put in more than a full time jobyou know, it's got retirement
retirement investing, sharingyour finances with a significant
other and planning for a baby ifyou if you want to have a family
and the pesky but all importanttopic of accepting financial
(49:20):
help from from your parents.
Preet Banerjee (49:22):
Yeah, that is a lot of information and it hits
on a lot of I think concernsthat that people have so
certainly looks like a greataddition to the bookshelf,
digital or otherwise for people.
The book is called Money Lakeyamean it personal finance tactics
for the real world. The authoris Erica aleni. The book goes on
(49:43):
sale like I said it's presale isnow and it it the official
published date is December 9, Ibelieve. Yes. There you go. So
you can find it. I'm guessinganywhere that books are sold.
And you want to check it outEric cars doing great work
covering the personal financebeat at Global News. And so you
can check out her work there aswell. Erica, thank you so much
(50:06):
for coming on the show reallyappreciated having you.
Erica Alini (50:10):
Thank you so much for having me.
Can you tell that story about the David
(00:02):
Letterman Show and the guest whowas on that show and what they
talked about?
Erica Alini (00:08):
Yes, and I am blanking out on the guest.
Preet Banerjee (00:12):
Well, you know what, I kind of didn't mention
the name because like, because Iwould feel really bad because I
am Indian and she is Indian ITand that I'm not 100% Sure, and
that a pronounced I'm prettysure it's a Shuar URI. Yes,
that's right. This is so bad,that I'm an Indian, and I'm
like.
(00:47):
This is mostly money, and I'myour host, Preet Banerjee, and
on the show today, I am joinedby Erica aleni, to talk about
her new book money likeimmediate personal finance
tactics for the real world.
Erica is the personal financereporter at Global News where
she writes about all thingspersonal finance, business and
economics. She's also the authorof money 123, a very popular
(01:08):
weekly newsletter on moneymatters. And her writing has
also appeared in The Wall StreetJournal, McLean's and the Globe
and Mail among others. Erica,welcome to the show.
Erica Alini (01:22):
Thanks so much for having me.
Preet Banerjee (01:24):
No, it's my pleasure. I've been looking
forward to our conversation.
I've been a big fan of your workat att global. Always enjoy
reading your pieces. So veryexcited when I heard that you
had a book coming out toencapsulate all the knowledge
that you've been, you know,imparting to the people in bite
size content, but now puttogether in one place. So let's
start with the title of thisbook money like you mean it
(01:48):
personal finance tactics for thereal world? So what what do you
mean by money? like you mean it?
Erica Alini (01:58):
That's a That's a great question. I'm glad you
asked. It took me forever tocome up with that title. But I
had the idea from from thebeginning. And the idea was that
personal finance is becomingmore complicated. And so you
kind of need to level up. Andyou need to know more in order
to make good decisions. And youneed to think outside the box.
(02:22):
And so it kind of needs a bit ofa feisty attitude. And that's
how I landed eventually on onmoney, like you mean it. And
that's why I also use a word,tactics. Because it's kind of
like the whole idea is, it'sgetting tougher out there. And
you need to learn to fightsmarter and not harder.
Preet Banerjee (02:42):
Right. Okay. So I like the premise already,
because I think it correct me ifI'm wrong. But so what I'm
hearing is that, you know, ifyou take a more passive
approach, and we'll talk aboutinvesting, if you take a more
passive approach with yourmoney, and just watch the world
go by you, you're probably goingto fall behind because the world
has gotten so much more complex,there's a lot of noise. And so
(03:03):
if you're going to be seriousabout achieving your potential,
when it comes to manage yourmoney, you have to meet it,
right, you can't just hope forthe best and hope that things
work out is that basically thepremise of this book.
Erica Alini (03:17):
So what I was thinking about, and this is
something that I've beenthinking about for a very long
time, but my, what I'm thinkingis, personal finance is becoming
more and more DIY, they, thereare more and more choices out
there. So investing, forexample, right? Like there's
(03:39):
been this great democraticsession of investing, which is
great on one end, because it'sso easy for everyone to access
the stock market, which used tobe a very elite thing. On the
other hand, it also means it'ssuper easy to make really costly
mistake with a few thumb strokesand lose money, you really can't
afford to lose. I'm thinkingabout, you know, spending and
(04:04):
borrowing, right? There arearmies of people out there very
smart, very well paid, whosemain job is to get used to
spending more and more even whenit comes to insurance, for
example, right? Like, gettinghome insurance used to be this
like very regular thing. Youknow, you buy a house, everyone
knows you get home insurance,and Bob's your uncle. But now,
(04:28):
you have to know that, you know,you have to look you know, is
the house you're buying into aflood zone in a flood zone.
What's the sewer system? Do youneed flood insurance? And if you
do, it's an optional thing thatyou usually have to ask for you
have to now to ask for floodinsurance. And those are just
some examples. And that's whyI've been thinking like no to
(04:51):
get by and this is true of everygeneration. Like you really need
to know more than knowledge basethe standard just to be able to
make Good decisions is higherthan it used to be. And I feel
like if you are a millenniallike me, an ancient millennial,
or a Gen Z, it's even more. Soyou have to be nimble, you have
(05:14):
to know more you have to be, youknow, you have to go out and get
what you want you want to get.
We're facing an absolutelybonkers real estate market. And
we're getting out of the gate wehave most of us have student
loans, which, you know, weighyou down just when you're
supposed to take off in life.
(05:35):
So, no, I feel like that thatwas the spirit of the book, like
it really, it is a fight. Andthis is a book that tells you,
you know, a few tactics thatwill improve your chances of
reaching the financial goalsthat that you want to reach.
Preet Banerjee (05:50):
Okay, I think I think I get this now. So I 100%
agree with you in sort of thepremise that you set up, which
is that it's the access todifferent things, in general, is
a lot higher than it has been.
And that's a double edged sword.
So it's so much easier forpeople to start investing with
lower amounts to invest. It'seasier to go around and get
(06:14):
insurance quotes. But do youknow you're getting the right
insurance for all your needs,and you just don't know what you
don't know. So on one hand,because of technology, and just
the change in business strategy,people going directly to the
consumer, there's all this greatchoice. But there's also all
these opportunities to makedecisions that maybe aren't
(06:35):
optimal. Alright, so I get that.
So who is the the audience thatsounds like this is skewing
younger? So Gen Zed, and Gen Y,which Gen Y is the same as
millennial. So Gen Y and GenZed? Is that? Is that the target
for this book?
Erica Alini (06:49):
Yeah, if you say, you know, I, Gen Y is what
people used to call Millennialsbefore the millennial terms are
became prevalent. I think youkind of Dating Yourself.
Preet Banerjee (07:02):
Right? The context of you know, where does
the Zed come from forgenerations? Zed? Well, it came
after y, which is what we usedto call millennials. So maybe I
am dating myself, but
Erica Alini (07:15):
I gave myself an introduction. I was like, back
in the day is to be Gen Y. And Iremember that.
Preet Banerjee (07:22):
Right? Right.
When was uphill both ways toschool, blah, blah. Right. So
anyway, so So is that theaudience? Those generations, Gen
Zed, and whatever the other oneis, that was before them.
Erica Alini (07:35):
Yeah, so it's, it's it's millennials. And like I
said, I'm one of the older ones.
And then Gen Z. And I would say,you know, Gen Z is, is
generations that are huge,right? I think my six year old
is at the tail end of Gen Z's byGen Z. I mean, the older ones,
the ones are, you know, everyonewho's finished school and is
trying to get into the world ofwork. So basically, like, I'd
say, 20 year olds to 40 yearolds, right, man.
Preet Banerjee (08:00):
Okay, and so when you say that you are an
ancient millennial, so is thatmean? Like, are you like,
bordering like you like aXenial? I think it's called it's
which is straddling millennialand Gen X, I am solidly in Gen
X. So that makes me superancient. So choose your words
carefully.
Erica Alini (08:18):
I always call them x annual. Okay, see,
Preet Banerjee (08:21):
I don't I've only ever seen it in print. I
don't know how it's pronounced.
But yeah, that makes sense.
Okay.
Erica Alini (08:26):
But yes, I am one of those.
Preet Banerjee (08:28):
Okay, so now you've been at global covering
personal finance for how long?
Erica Alini (08:35):
Come on, yeah, almost five years, five years?
And
Preet Banerjee (08:37):
what are the big, big mistakes, or the big
stories that you've seen whileon this beat that just makes you
you know, your eyes pop out ofyour head, covering personal
finance.
Erica Alini (08:49):
So one of the ones that I kind of used in in the
book sort of indirectly. I amnot going to say, you know, I
don't see crazy stories aboutpeople spending, you know, crazy
amounts or taking on enormousamounts of debt or anything like
that, but it's mostly about sortof naivete what I what I see a
(09:13):
lot. And so for example, I hadthis story about this guy,
really, really smart guy whojust got an fantastic job. It
was right out of universityalready making more and wiener
to buy a house and had alwaysbeen very strict. And he he was
(09:36):
always using a debit card andhad been saving up and had saved
up you know, had bought a car incash and motorcycle and cash
and, and now he wanted to buy ahouse from from the home. He'd
never been using a credit card.
So yeah, no credit. So he had toget his parents to, you know, to
co sponsor the mortgage. Andthis was shocking to him and to
(09:57):
his Parents. And that's a storythat I kind of used in my, in
the book when I when I explainhow, you know, credit scores
work, I was like, you know, likethis guy reminded me of, at the
time I was reading my son wasobsessed with Captain America's
you could be Captain America,you know, like the young kid
(10:18):
doing the right thing and
Preet Banerjee (10:22):
didn't crack file for Captain America right
because that if
Erica Alini (10:25):
you do not use credit, the banks do not care.
Preet Banerjee (10:29):
Okay, so this is a I think a good segue to talk
about, I think one of the most,the issue that will get the most
amount of clicks, the mostamount of podcast downloads is
anything to do with real estate.
And so in the last five years,Have you have you seen this,
this divide between the havesand the have nots in terms of
(10:51):
the ability to buy a house? Likewould you say that we are in a
housing crisis? Oh, definitely.
Erica Alini (11:00):
I honestly, I've heard that we were in a housing
crisis since I started coveringthe housing market, which back
then was 2010. I've been on thatbeat since since then. I mean,
Maclean's. I was on McLean's atthe time. I don't know if you
remember, but we had this issuewith like a house going up in
flames. That we know.
Preet Banerjee (11:22):
Years later, yeah, it actually meant housing
is on fire. Right. And itcontinued to be on fire for the
next 11 years. And even the lastsix months, it feels like it's
even accelerated. And so youknow, money's cheap right now to
to rent, which is, you know,that's one factor. But we also
saw that the average gift of adownpayment is, you know, six
(11:47):
figures for someone in Toronto.
And so they're relying on somuch help. And so if your
parents weren't on the housingladder, and they don't have
equity to tap into it, it'salmost like a sure bet that
you're not going to get a house.
If your parents don't own ahouse. How do you feel like this
is affecting the perspective ofthe next generation of financial
(12:08):
consumers?
Erica Alini (12:11):
It's a it's a huge issue, I would say it's the
number one issue facingmillennials and Gen Z. And
frankly, even even amongmillennials, right, like
millennials, who were a littlebit older, kind of some of us
gone in just in time, like Ibought in 2015. With help from
my parents, and my in laws, andwe've already dodged to huge
(12:36):
housing loans since then, and wewouldn't have been able to get
in even with help. Had we waitedeven, frankly, even a year,
because the housing marketstarted heating up. We just like
lucked out that 2015 was like wehad the crisis, the energy
crisis in Alberta, and thingskind of cooled off for a little
bit. And that's just why we won.
We happen to buy a house. Sothere's an enormous and not only
(12:58):
a generational divide, but ahuge divide even within Yeah,
the younger generation.
Preet Banerjee (13:05):
Yeah, starting to hear people with
homeownership guilt. And, youknow, so for a while we're
there, people were talking aboutbuyers regret buyer's remorse,
they get a house and like, wow,these big, big mortgage payments
and property tax, and all thisother stuff to pay for
maintenance. And so they werehouse rich and cash poor. And
(13:28):
now you're starting to hearstories about people who have
guilt about being able to buy ahome, when a lot of people
around may be frozen outforever, you know, people in
their friends circle. So thepsychology behind housing is
really I like I agree 100% thatit's been, you know, crisis
(13:48):
levels for a long time. But doyou feel that? Do you feel any
guilt of being ones who got insort of before things ran away?
Erica Alini (13:57):
Totally. Yeah, absolutely. And not just that,
but there's also all this shamearound getting money from your
parents, this is like this, thisnotion, right? That your your
your chances financially dependon on your parents. That doesn't
doesn't feel good at all. Ithink it's a it's a huge issue.
(14:19):
There's a lot of anger outthere, which is completely
understandable. And the book issort of addresses that, you
know, whether you should getmoney from from the Bank of mom
and dad. And one of the thingsthat I that I tried to do is the
same time acknowledge that thisis a huge problem, and it is
(14:39):
fostering income inequality andwe are going down a path. We
probably don't want to go downas a society. And at the same
time though, you need a house tolive in. And if your family
lives in a big city and you wantto be close to your family and
your family can help you. Myposition is get that help you
need the house you know you'renot speculating you you're
(15:00):
occupying a house like you wouldin a normal in a normal
situation and shame. The onlything that shame does is, you
know, it makes you hide it notwant to talk about money within
your family, sort of like kids,adult kids and parents kind of
do things hush hush, withoutacknowledging what's going on
(15:22):
without having an openconversation, like pretending it
didn't happen, which thenusually breeds misunderstanding
and family conflict. And on theother hand, shame leads people
to not want to talk about thefact that they got this help
from their parents, which inturn, you know, makes people
wonder how miraculously you havea house and they don't, and
(15:44):
maybe you know, something thatthey don't, right. And I feel
like you know, like, get thehelp if you need the house, but
be very open about it with yourfriends, that you got help. And
it doesn't mean you have tospill your guts and, you know,
say exactly how much you got andhow much your parents gave you.
You're not Donald Trump, but noone needs to see your tax
(16:06):
returns.
Preet Banerjee (16:08):
But they will.
Like still like his presidency,and hopefully, well, hopefully,
it's just the one term, we'restill never gonna see it. Right.
And he's probably gonna runagain, and we probably still
won't see it.
Erica Alini (16:24):
But, you know, but do do acknowledge that help.
Preet Banerjee (16:27):
Right. Okay.
Now, one of the stories right atthe end of your book, I think is
is interesting to tack onto thispart of our conversation about
shame, you know, living withyour parents getting help from
your parents. Can you tell thatstory about the David Letterman
Show and the guest who was onthat show and what they talked
about?
Erica Alini (16:47):
Yes, and I am blanking out on the
Preet Banerjee (16:50):
guest. Well, you know what, I kind of didn't
mention the name because like,because I would feel really bad
because I am Indian, and she isIndian IT and that I'm not 100%
Sure and that to pronounce. I'mpretty sure it's a Shuar URI.
Yes, that's right. This is sobad, that I'm an Indian. And I'm
(17:10):
like,
Erica Alini (17:13):
I checked, I checked the spelling, you know,
million times. And then therewas the issue that she changed
her last name since thatLetterman clip and which one
were we going to use?
discretion? But yeah, sorry, Iwas also uncertain how to
pronounce it. No, I think you'vegot it right. Save one more
time. And then I'll try to saythe same.
Preet Banerjee (17:31):
Well, sing it twice the same time is almost as
hard as getting it up the firsttime. I think it's ash warrior,
right?
Erica Alini (17:39):
Yes, I think so too. That sounds really
Preet Banerjee (17:42):
gotta hold my mom isn't listening. She's gonna
like throw a shoe virtuallythrough the airwaves. Okay, so
anyways, tell the story.
Erica Alini (17:49):
Okay. Yeah. So I had I'm sorry, I've seen I used
to, there was a period of mylife where I used to watch David
Letterman clips at night. Longdistance, my husband was, you
know, teaching California and Iwas in Toronto. And that was my
pastime. And I stumbled uponthis clip, and it has stayed
(18:10):
with me for decades, until Iactually wrote the book. I knew
I would use it someday. And Ilove that clip. And I have to
say, I full disclosure, I'mItalian, and not I don't mean
Italian Canadian, I was born andgrew up in Italy. And so I have
that kind of culturalbackground. And I have to, I
think, you know, Indian familiesand Italian families have a lot
in common. So that clip reallyspoke to me. And it was, it was
(18:34):
her on on Letterman, and she waspromoting her, he should just
sort of had a bit the view onthe Hollywood scene. And and so
she was promoting her her latestmovie, and then, you know,
Letterman throws her one of hissignature curveballs and was
like, Is it true that you stilllive with your parents, and I
(18:56):
love that she would not have it.
And she came back and him andwas like, Yeah, I'm still
leaving my parents. And inIndia, it's totally acceptable.
And we don't need to make anappointment, you know, weeks in
advance, have dinner with ourparents. And she and she drew
the applause and I was like, wayto go. Right. Yeah. And, and so
one of the argument, you know, Iuse that, that clip and I
(19:21):
mentioned that clip it in thebook and I and I, you know, use
that to to argue that you know,we have this enormous stigma in
the US in North America in USand Canada against you know,
getting help from your parentsand living with your parents
past, you know, a certain age orat you know, are 22 or whatever
it is. And it's it's very it's aNorth Americans in the Anglo
(19:47):
Saxon thing, you know, likethere are so many cultures in
which this is not true. Aleaving one Indian mean, and now
they're, you know, really if yougo around the world, this is
like an In my opinion, it has alot to do with, with wealth, you
know, like there was a period,it didn't used to be the case
(20:08):
that people would get out andstrike out on their own
necessarily, even in NorthAmerica, it became a thing when
it became possible economicallyto do so. And in a lot of
countries, it's so not so easyto do. So a living one has a
humongous youth unemployment.
(20:29):
And so people still live withtheir parents. And it's much
more more acceptable that you'regoing to need to stay and sit
tight and live in your childhoodbedroom for much, much longer to
build yourself up financiallyuntil you're ready to finally
break free. And it's not alwaysan ideal situation. But we have
to get rid of the stigma even inNorth America and recognize that
(20:50):
it was tied to a very specifichistorical context and economic
context of opportunity, right?
Like the the the baby boomers,had enormous economic
opportunity, and were able tostrike out on their own early
on. And that's fantastic. Butwe're not in the same situation.
And it should be completely finefor someone to, you know, live
(21:12):
in their parents basement, ifthey are saving up to two for a
big downpayment. And you know,and the parents can afford to,
you know, to do let them leaveevent free, for example,
Preet Banerjee (21:27):
yes, certainly around the world looking at
cultural differences. And someof that is sort of imported into
Canada being such a multigeneration, multi cultural sort
of melting pot of a lot ofdifferent immigrant groups. But
you know, having two, three,sometimes four generations in
the same house is not uncommonaround the world. But I want to
(21:49):
touch upon something elserelated to cultural differences
and you having growing up inItaly. So I know that in Europe,
there's some things that arejust you know, people's
perspectives are quite a bitdifferent. So for example, in
Berlin city in Germany, the rateof renter's is like 80% 80% of
people in Berlin rent. And sothey don't have the same sort of
(22:11):
stigma with homeownership. But alot of people are renters. But
another thing that I think is alittle bit different is the use
of credit cards. I think inGermany, this was a couple
years, years ago, when I lookedat the stats, but something like
only one in six people usecredit cards in Germany. But I
want to ask you about creditusage here in North America and
(22:34):
in Canada. What are you seeing,for better or for worse when it
comes to the different types ofcredit tools, apps, services
that are out there and any trapsthat people should be aware of?
Erica Alini (22:49):
So obviously, we're very fond of credit cards in
North America, and I have tosay, like my Italian background
really served me well therebecause it was like, what not
paying your credit card in fullthe end of the day, like at the
end of the month, like what areyou talking about? It was
completely unthinkable for me,so I have that to be grateful
(23:09):
for. But so in terms of thepandemic, there's been some some
positive trends there. Right. Asyou as you know, the especially
the income support programs forCOVID-19 have helped a lot of
people pay down debt. And thisis something that I was hearing
early on when I was interviewingsort of low income Canadians who
(23:34):
are receiving the Serb and thenthe CRB though some of the
things that they're doing islike finally I can pay off my
credit card bill. On the otherhand, we've been racking up
mortgage debt and obviouslybecause of the tremendous real
estate boom that we've had HELOCthat that's home equity lines of
credit and lines of credits thatare backed by the the equity in
(23:55):
your house. And we've beenracking up those balances as
well. And then the boom in homerenovations and now I've heard
of people using HELOC to placeBitcoin bets and to you know, to
buy real estate with withleverage seems to be the new one
the new big trend. Another trendtwo other trends I guess one is
(24:20):
one is credit debt and the otherone isn't really debt but I sort
of during Sidious little thingsthat make it in my opinion,
harder to to budget and Staywithin your limits. When is the
Buy Now pay later apps whichseemed to be everywhere, and
they really exploded during thepandemic. And the other one is
(24:42):
what Robin talb calledsubscription cream creep, which
I thought was was a great term,the fact that everything is
becoming a subscription. And so,the BNPL probably most people
know at this point what It is.
But it's basically it comes intoin two forms. So perhaps you're
(25:03):
you're shopping online and youget to the checkout. And now you
see that you have an option topay for whatever it is you're
buying in full as usual. Or youcan pay for it in installments,
a tiny little payments overseveral months, right. And we're
not talking about the old Buynow pay later, like buy a
mattress and, you know, forgetabout it for six months, and
(25:24):
then pay in installments, we'retalking about you buy a pair of
shoes for $150 and paying 50 $50installments for three months,
kind of that kind of thing. Andthen you also have BNPL apps now
where you can download the appand shop within the app with
partner, retailers. And then youcan pay for everything in
installments. And so these aretiny little loans, and they're
(25:47):
often interest free, if you payin time. But what I find is
really insidious about BNPL isthat they they anchor in that
there's quite a bit of, youknow, behavioral economists that
will tell you this, that they,they anchor your brain on the
smaller amount of theinstallment payment, rather than
(26:09):
the full amount, whatever it is,you're buying. So you're kind of
thinking, you know, rationallyyou know, the pair of shoes is
under $50, of course, butemotionally, you're thinking
like 50 bucks a month, I canafford that. Let's do it. And
that solves a huge problem forretailers, right, which is
people abandoning their digitalcart, right? Like, he was like,
(26:29):
oh, maybe I'll need to buy theseshoes. And then when you have to
put in your credit cardinformation, like Yeah, can I
really afford? Maybe not, youknow, and people abandon the
cart, right? Like they, theythey put the stuff in, and then
this day, they get cold feet.
terrible pun after issue,analysis. But you know, so it
(26:54):
helps you overcome that sort ofthat moment of doubt. And the
other thing it does is, if youkeep using BNPL, you will end up
with a bunch of small payments.
And we're extremely bad atkeeping track of small payments.
I'm the first one like I, youknow, what happens to me mostly
is, I'll sign up for some trialthing, and then forget to, you
(27:16):
know, cancel it. And then I havethe wideness, like, $10 come out
of my account, right. And so itplays on that it's sick, people
are very good at keeping trackof their big, big bills, they're
not very good at keeping trackof small things. But they really
add up. And, and the other thingthat happens with this, and with
(27:37):
subscriptions, which is anothercategory of small little
payments that eat away yourbudget every month, everything
is becoming a subscription. Andbetween BNPL and subscriptions.
More and more of what used to beyour discretionary expenses are
now turning into fixed expenses.
Preet Banerjee (27:58):
Yeah, very, very interesting insights. Okay. So
another thing that you talkedabout in the book is this,
there's a chapter titled The BigFat retirement myth. So just so
we're on the same page, whichmyth is that?
Erica Alini (28:14):
So the reason I call it retirement retirement
myth is so that the argumentthat I, that I make is that the
concept of retirement is kind offading away,
Preet Banerjee (28:26):
to be retired.
Erica Alini (28:28):
That's the line from your book, which I remember
Preet Banerjee (28:32):
is it I didn't even remember that I just
thought it was clever. Now, itis a line from your book. Shit,
it's been a while since I'veeven crack that open.
Erica Alini (28:45):
So I think it's, it's kind of like becoming a
more, it's less of a sort ofblack and white switch, you
know, from like, working all thetime to suddenly you're, you
know, doing Aquafit classes inFlorida, or, you know, something
like that. It's, it's becomingmore of a gradual shift from
working all the time to workingless. And I think that's how I
(29:08):
see, you know, like, if you're,it's interesting, because
there's, the people tend tothink about different phenomena.
And in my opinion, it's all thesame thing, right? You have the
news coverage about, you know,baby boomers who aren't really
retiring or like, or theypretend to retire, and then they
come back to work or they becomeconsultants. So, you know, they
(29:30):
keep working on on the side alittle bit. And then you have
Gen X is very fond of, you know,the concept of financial
freedom, which usually comes alittle bit before 65 And then
you have millennials who came upwith fire, which is really
financial freedom 2.0 and theextreme and the idea of working
(29:52):
like a maniac and saving likeAmenia until you know, you're 30
or 35, you know, whatever orwhatever super ambitious goal
you want to even set, and thenyou quote unquote, retire. But
when you talk to most sort ofpeople who pursue fire, they're
not really talking about neverworking again for the rest of
(30:13):
their lives, because frankly,what would you do with yourself
for that long, they're talkingabout having the luxury of not
worrying about paying yourbills, and being able to work
less being able to pursue yourdreams, you know, it's still
working, it's just doing thework that you really want, a lot
of the time and traveling andall of that. So all of that, in
(30:35):
my opinion, is just like thisidea of that there's a phase of
your, of your life in which youneed to work super hard and, and
save, and you're kind of in thehamster wheel that you were
saying. And then there's a phaseof your life in which you're
still working, but you're doingwhat you would like to do. And,
you know, and, and you can stopand smell the roses and and
(30:58):
enjoy life a little bit more.
And frankly, only verygradually, you get to the point
where you're not working at all.
Preet Banerjee (31:05):
Right? Yeah, I think there's definitely the the
concept of balance, I think ishas always been important in
terms of figuring out how do youlive for today, while also
planning for tomorrow? I thinkit's more top of mind today,
because I think there's maybe anentire generation maybe to who,
(31:29):
you know, come into theworkforce. And the deck just
seems so incredibly stacked. Interms of alright, you did
everything you were told to doyou you went to school, you
studied hard, you got intocollege, university, study hard,
took on a whole bunch of debtgraduating, and on day one,
you've got a lot of debt, yourincome is maybe a little bit
(31:49):
less than you thought it wouldbe or the work is more
precarious. The you don't havethose, you know, careers where
you stay at the same place, youknow, the entire the entirety of
your career. So you're you'remaybe moving jobs or careers
multiple times, there's no, nosense of loyalty in either
direction. Because why wouldthey be if no one's going to be
(32:11):
loyal to your career, and highhouse prices, you know, maybe
moving in with someone beforegetting married, because you
grew up seeing your previousgeneration, everyone got
divorced or 50% of people. So hetakes a little bit of a
different perspective. And thenyou see, you know, Wall Street,
(32:35):
the financial system gettingbailed out on the backs of the
little guy, and it feels likethere's this this pent up angst
and I don't. And I don't thinkthat's unreasonable, given what
they sort of come into the worldsort of experiencing. And I
wonder if I'd like to get yourthoughts on this. I wonder if
(32:56):
this is part of what explainswhy we seal why we see maybe
more what I'd say Hail Marystrategies with investing.
Whether it be you know, going tocryptocurrency, you know, full
bore, or trading meme stocks orlooking at Community Based
(33:17):
advice, as opposed to sort oftraditional models of advice.
I'd like to hear your thoughtson on, you know, the plight of
the younger financial consumer,and how, again, that that the
hand that they've been dealt, doyou feel that is leading to some
of these behaviors that I thinka lot of people still trying to
(33:38):
figure out? Why are peoplegoing, you know, 90% of their
portfolio in cryptocurrency and10%. In you know, stocks? Seems
like it's kind of like backwardsof what a traditional model of
advice would sort of recommend?
Erica Alini (33:51):
Yes, for sure. I think that there's this idea,
especially if people feel likethey can get into the real
estate market that they have to,they have to get used to the
stock market or crypto and it'stheir only chance to grow their
wealth. And also, there's moreand more people are more and
(34:12):
more disillusioned about work.
You know, like wages mostly for,for a lot of people aren't
moving very fast, even now thatwe have the highest inflation
we've had in about two decades.
I was looking at some employersurveys and they were looking at
for existing employees. Raisesof to 2.5%, which at this point,
(34:36):
it's false. Short. Yeah, so
Preet Banerjee (34:38):
you're actually making less money in real terms.
Exactly. Hey, thanks for anothergreat year. We're gonna pay you
less.
Erica Alini (34:46):
Yes, yeah. Thanks for being a loyal employee.
Here's your word. Yes, no, thesethese Yeah, some hail mary
strategies. You know, like, Igotta like my Bitcoins. My only
my only show hands to make it oryou know some some stock you
know being GameStop or whateverit's It's my only chance to make
(35:09):
it and accumulate wealth and Iyou know I I am not on Tik Tok
only done one video which I needto work on my Tiktok skills.
They're
Preet Banerjee (35:21):
You and me both.
Erica Alini (35:24):
But I am following you know, a lot of a lot of
FinTech finance on Tik Tok. Oh,is
Preet Banerjee (35:31):
that what's called fintech.
Erica Alini (35:35):
And there's a lot of this concept that you know
renting your brain to anemployer like working basically
is not the way to go on the inthe only thing that will work is
accumulating wealth and so thereare all these ideas about how
you can do that.
Preet Banerjee (35:54):
Interesting, interesting stuff. Now, I just
want to ask you just because I'mjust curious, but do you or
anyone your household owncryptocurrencies or anything
exotic like that? We do.
Erica Alini (36:09):
And because I, we bought I bought some I asked my
husband to buy and he's actuallymore into the ins and outs of
how it works. But I wanted whenI was covering cryptocurrency in
the 2017 You know, like when itstarted going, and not so I was
like, you know, I can writeabout this stuff without
(36:30):
actually buying a little bit ofit and figuring out how it
works. So we bought like, Idon't know 150 bucks
Preet Banerjee (36:41):
and what is your experience been with it? And you
know, I'm you know, you talk alittle bit about cryptocurrency
and a little bit about you know,kind of like defining what non
fungible tokens NF T's are inyour book, but what is your
what, what do you tell peoplebecause the the audience of your
book, The the level of interestin cryptocurrencies and
(37:05):
decentralized finance is prettyhuge. So So what is your what is
your advice to people? Becausethese, I would say that next to
real estate, cryptocurrency isone of the biggest questions I
get from younger generations,what do you tell people
generally? And what are theyasking you about?
Erica Alini (37:23):
Yeah, so, you know, despite the crash, the latest of
Bitcoin crash? No, we've donereally well with our 150. What I
what I tell it so as you know,there are, you know, there's
pretty different opinions outthere, even among financial
(37:43):
planners and investmentadvisors, I like a lot have very
different opinions aboutweather. Honestly, the range of
opinions is from whether youshould touch cryptocurrency at
all, and a lot of people that Iknow and trust includes advice
I'd like say absolutely not. Andthere are some people who, you
(38:05):
know, some some experts I'vebeen talking to for a long time,
who I consider to be very goodand who say, yes, maybe a little
bit, you know, between anywherebetween one and 5% of your
portfolio, so no one that haveye no advocate, you know,
putting more than 5%.
Preet Banerjee (38:26):
So, what you're saying is do not use your HELOC
to buy a portfolio of justBitcoin.
Erica Alini (38:33):
Do not use your HELOC to buy any investment.
Preet Banerjee (38:40):
Yeah, you know, I was I was actually I was just
prepping a video, because I havebeen getting tons of questions
on the cryptocurrency,specifically from people who are
not following or researching orstudying at all. And the reason
that they're interested ispurely FOMO. It's purely They've
seen what other people have beentalking about in terms of
(39:04):
returns and some session allthis stuff. And so I wanted to
sort of, you know, give somethoughts on it and disclosure,
I'm a part owner of thiscompany, but there's a company
called wealth scope, and theyit's a portfolio analytics
company, you can actually modelthese what if scenarios to see,
you know, what would happen toyour portfolio if you added in
allocations to various thingslike cryptocurrency, so I
(39:26):
created this typical 6040portfolios 60% equities index
funds around the world 40% shortterm bonds, and then I compared
it side by side to a portfoliowhich was the same except it had
a 2.5% allocation to Bitcoin, a2.5% allocation to ether and
(39:48):
that 5% weighting tocryptocurrencies, the risk
attribution, the risk that itaccounted for was 46% of the
portfolio's risk came from 5%The holdings. And it's not to
say that it's volatile is anunderstatement. But it is
(40:08):
absolutely wild. So I'm justputting together some thoughts
on that. But it's yeah, it'sit's I think it's one of those
questions that you get every daythese days when it comes to
personal finance.
Erica Alini (40:19):
And go ahead, sorry, Preet. Now if I can add a
little bit more about crypto andwhere I land on there, so
really, I feel like the onlything I can say about crypto, as
you just said is what we knowfor sure. It is it is extremely
volatile, will they get a littlebit less volatile in the future?
(40:39):
I've certainly heard thosearguments, but I don't know.
Preet Banerjee (40:43):
Yeah, I think one of the I think one of the
challenges is also when you lookat the different sources of
information, there's just somany I'll call them characters
out there that who, you know,they don't come across as
credible, but they have thesevery strong opinions. And I
think, you know, there's,there's a certain amount of
shaming that that goes around,when it comes to oh, I can't
(41:04):
believe you're not invested inBitcoin. And I think this to a
certain extent that actuallyWard's off some people because
they're like, Nah, my red flagindicators kind of going up,
because you're just getting kindof like you're in a cult. But I
would definitely say if the onlyreason you're interested in it
is because you've been hearingabout the returns that some
people have made, and you don'tknow anything else about it. At
(41:26):
the very least, you should dosome research before you make
any investment. And this tiesinto the last sort of chapter I
want to talk to you about aboutyour book, which is learning
about investing is not optional.
Right? That's your sort ofperspective. So can you talk a
little bit about that?
Erica Alini (41:42):
Yeah, and that's the in the sort of money like
you mean it theme of like, well,you know, maybe for a long time,
I think there's been this ideaof personal finance is like sort
of divided into groups. Soright, there's like, there's
budgeting and, and day to daymoney management, and everyone
can get in on that and spendLeslie you make it real,
(42:03):
everyone can can get on board.
And then it was investing, whichwas like the advanced stuff,
right? That though you kind oflike would only get into if you
were interested or you feelconfident, or you thought you
were going to math and whatever.
And now I'm like, Oh, youabsolutely need to learn about
investing, it is as essential ashaving basic budgeting skills.
(42:26):
And it's also difficult, becausethey obviously they don't teach
investing in school, and I cancompletely understand why they
don't I think the lobbyingindustry would be crazy if they
did.
Preet Banerjee (42:39):
The only the only teachings that I see in
schools are the stock marketcompetitions, which is like the,
if someone came to me and said,Hey, we want you to design a
curriculum for teaching peopleabout investing that is the
absolute worst, as they Oh,let's do a stock market
competition. That is the worstway to teach someone about
investing.
Erica Alini (43:01):
Yes. And so by learning about investing, so,
you know, as I they make clearin the book, so I'm not talking
about, you know, sophisticatedstrategies, or, you know,
knowing what options andderivatives and what have you,
(43:21):
like, all what you really needto understand, I think that the
basics for me, as you know, assomeone who learned about
investing, frankly, as an adult,I it's not something like in my
mid 20s Say, It was a politicalscience major, this is not where
my head was, in my early 20s ishis risk, right? Like, what
(43:43):
you're doing, how it works. Andand the very real risk that if
you don't invest, you will nothave enough for whatever it is
that you think about when youthink about retirement, right.
And we can all argue aboutwhether we we want to retire to
what age and doing what, but Ithink everyone agrees that they
(44:04):
would like to, at some pointhave the ability financially to
scale back. Right. And if youdon't put money in the stock
market these days, unless,unless you're very lucky. And
you have a career in governmentand that public pension is well
funded. You You gotta you gottainvest and you have to know what
(44:24):
you're doing. And there arefantastic options these days to,
you know, there are very loweffort and low cost to invest.
But they usually don't involve,you know, a training app and new
sort of trying to figure outwhich stocks are going to go up
and down. It's very important tounderstand how passive investing
(44:47):
index investing works, and whythat's a good solid strategy for
the long term that can carry youfrom sort of when you graduate
school, to when you're finallyready to retire. Whatever
Preet Banerjee (45:00):
Yeah, I think anyone who's graduating from
college and university todayforwards, the proportion that
will use a traditional model ofadvice is pretty close to zero,
it's not zero. But it's prettyclose, I mean, just the world
that they've grown up in, theyare used to having things
available at their fingertips onan app on a on a tablet, what
(45:23):
have you. And the FinancialServices has not kept pace with
that those changing consumerpreferences. And I think to your
point, you know, learning aboutinvesting is not optional,
whether you do it yourself ornot, because I would say to
people, you can't just delegatewithout having any effort put
into learning about how to speakthe same language, you don't
(45:46):
need to know everything. But youneed to be able to, you know, be
at that table and meaningfullyhave a conversation about things
like risk, asset allocation,goal setting. And just the very
basics, at the very least, andthen some people might find it,
you know, it's not as difficultas I thought it was going to be
to grasp these concepts. Andwe're older and more, and I want
(46:06):
a little bit more time, whateverit is, you know, people want to
do it themselves or use advice,whatever form of advice that is,
you still have to put in sometime to sort of figure out the
basics. I think that's greatadvice. Okay, so Erica, we're
going to wrap up here, but asyou know, everyone gets a
commercial. So the last, youknow, two minutes, the floor is
(46:28):
yours, promote, share the links,where you can get the book when
it goes on sale, if you want tosort of make a plug that, hey,
it's December 9 is when it'scoming out what a great stocking
stuffer, this book would be, youknow, feel free to do that.
Whatever you like.
Erica Alini (46:44):
Absolutely. So yeah, so I just wrote a book. So
that's what I want to pitch. SoI would say, so with money like
you, like you mean it I, what Ireally tried to bring together
was, I started out as a as aneconomics writer, before I was a
personal finance writer. So I'vebeen in, I've been a reporter
(47:06):
for over a decade, and it waskind of evenly split in between
economics and personal finance.
And this is what you'll find inthe book. So it's a book about
personal finance, that yes, it'sfull of sort of actionable tips.
But it also explains, especiallyif you're a millennial, and Gen
Z, why you kind of feel thisangst that you can't reach the
(47:27):
goals that the personal yonder,the money goals, the financial
goals that your parents seem toso easily have reached when they
were your age. And it's thereare powerful sort of economic
and technological forces atwork, that are complicating
personal finance and making itharder to reach those goals. And
(47:52):
this book both explains sort ofsome techniques that you can use
to get where you need to bewhere you want to go anyways,
but also gives you the broadercontext to context to understand
that, you know, it's not yourfault, you know, you can make
good decisions, but you reallyneed to understand what's going
(48:14):
on around you these days. Andthe other thing that I wanted to
do with this book is give us alittle bit of a comprehensive
personal finance one on oneguide, there is a wealth of
great information out there, I'mbiased in depth, you know, very
accessible about personalfinance on the internet, but it
(48:35):
is scattered all over the web.
And I kind of just wanted to putit in one book and so this book,
you know, it's got it's gotdebt, it's got housing, it's got
work which is something that alot of personal finance books
don't discuss. So how to makemoney you know, as a you know,
the gig economy side hustleswhat's worth it and you know, to
(48:58):
put in more than a full time jobyou know, it's got retirement
retirement investing, sharingyour finances with a significant
other and planning for a baby ifyou if you want to have a family
and the pesky but all importanttopic of accepting financial
(49:20):
help from from your parents.
Preet Banerjee (49:22):
Yeah, that is a lot of information and it hits
on a lot of I think concernsthat that people have so
certainly looks like a greataddition to the bookshelf,
digital or otherwise for people.
The book is called Money Lakeyamean it personal finance tactics
for the real world. The authoris Erica aleni. The book goes on
(49:43):
sale like I said it's presale isnow and it it the official
published date is December 9, Ibelieve. Yes. There you go. So
you can find it. I'm guessinganywhere that books are sold.
And you want to check it outEric cars doing great work
covering the personal financebeat at Global News. And so you
can check out her work there aswell. Erica, thank you so much
(50:06):
for coming on the show reallyappreciated having you.
Erica Alini (50:10):
Thank you so much for having me.
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