January 16, 2021 • 52 mins
Erica Ehm was one of the first MuchMusic VJs, shaping and influencing an entire generation of Canadians. Her career has seen a series of reinventions. After defining the role of music television host, she became a successful songwriter winning multiple Canadian Country Music Awards, SOCAN awards, and Juno awards. But the reinvention didn't stop there. She has launched two companies, including the the first influencer agency that was born out of YummyMummyClub.ca, and Ehm & Co (EhmCo.com), a digital agency focused on connecting brands with Canadian mothers.
She recently launched the "Reinvention of the VJ" podcast which not only reminisces about that golden era of Canadian music television, but what happened to much of the on-air talent after the disruptive effect of on-demand music streaming services on the industry.
With so many people facing personal and professional reinvention (COVID-related or otherwise), Erica brings her experience as a reinvention expert to the podcast and shares what worked for her, and what can work for you.
Mentioned in the show:
THAT Kurt Cobain interview that helped defined Erica's career: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CTsGievjMU
Erica Ehm's blog post about her thoughts on the behind the scenes of that interview: https://www.ericaehm.com/erica-ehm-insights/2019/2/5/kurt-cobain-erica-ehm
Reinvention of the Vj Podcast: https://www.ericaehm.com/podcast
YummyMummyClub.ca
EhmCo.com
Erica Ehm on Twitter: @EricaEhm, Instagram: @EricaEhm
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erica Ehm (00:00):
I didn't like the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Preet Banerjee (00:02):
Really? Why?
Erica Ehm (00:03):
Well, when I was interviewing them before the
interview, we warned them youknow this is live. So try to
keep your swearing to a minimum.
Preet Banerjee (00:20):
Welcome to the mostly money podcast with your
host, Preet Banerjee.
This is mostly money and I'myour host Preet Banerjee. And on
the show today I'll be speakingwith Canadian royalty. Erica
Ehm, was one of the firstmuchmusic VJs, who spent 10
(00:41):
years captivating andinfluencing young Canadians,
young Canadians then who todayare my age. And every time I
mentioned that, Hey, I knowErica M. Without a single
exception, every single one ofthem physically grabs my arm,
and tells me how they were madlyin love with her. 15 years ago,
(01:03):
she founded Yummy Mummy clubwhich connects brands with
Canadian moms. In 2012, shebecame a pioneer yet again, in
branded content and socialengagement with the launch of m
and Co. More recently, shelaunched a new podcast called
reinvention of the vj, whichincludes interviews with much
music DJs, like GeorgeStroumboulopoulos, Rick the
(01:25):
temp, Amanda Walsh, and manymore. And I came to know her
from crossing paths on theprofessional speaking world. And
I'm so delighted to have Eric onthe show today, and our theme
will be re invention becauseshe's absolutely an authority on
it. And because it's somethingso many people are grappling
with right now, both personallyand professionally. So you're
(01:47):
the perfect guest at the perfecttime. Erica, welcome to the
show.
Erica Ehm (01:51):
And you're the perfect host. So this is gonna
be the perfect show.
Preet Banerjee (01:54):
You can't say something like that, because I
do not have the background tojustify that praise. But I'll
take it. I'll take it.
Unknown (02:00):
I'm sure you will.
Preet Banerjee (02:02):
Now I want to I want to talk about your new
podcast, obviously reinventionof the VJ because as I said,
reinvention is such a strongtheme and people's lives right
now. But before we do that,let's talk a little bit about
how the VJ was invented in thefirst place. How did you get
that gig but as because itwasn't like something where,
hey, we're looking for peoplewith experience as VJs for
(02:25):
music, television that didn'texist you you define that genre.
So how did that happen? in thefirst place?
Erica Ehm (02:32):
Well, like most things, it takes a lot of effort
behind the scenes, everyonethinks, Oh, you know, I think a
lot of people think I slept withmy boss, or one of the bosses,
honestly, oh, there's, there's afull conspiracy theory about
that. But the real story is whenI was 16 years old, I had
(02:52):
already decided I was going towork in the music business, and
managed to get on the radio atShowMe FM to be interviewed when
I was 16. Or no, I think I was17 at that point. And so I I
spotted who the program directorwas at ShowMe FM. And when I
went to see the cars concert atthe Montreal forum, decked out
(03:13):
in the latest and greatest NewWave outfit, I marched up to him
Hi, Rob rate, can I have a jobat shome. And he looked at me
and he said, this is actuallytime for me to be watching a
band. But if you would like tocall my assistant, we can talk
about it. So I frickin showed upat ShowMe FM when I was 17 years
(03:34):
old, and asked him for a fulltime job at show with them. And
guess what he said?
Preet Banerjee (03:40):
Of course, he would say yes to you. How could
you say no to you?
Erica Ehm (03:42):
He said no. Oh. He said, Listen, you're still in
school. You can't work here fulltime. But if you'd like, you can
be my music librarian. What thatmeans is you can have access to
the radio station at any time.
Your job would be to organizeall the albums that weren't even
CDs at the time, and keep allthe records organized. And you
(04:05):
get to be here and you get toexperience what it is to work at
a radio station. Of course, Isaid yes. And all the kids at CJ
app where I was at school. Is itlike how did you get the job?
Because it was big news, right?
It was it's the biggest rockradio station. And guess what I
told them? I asked seriously,that's my theme. And you're
(04:29):
gonna see this reinvention themeand I asked as sort of a
partnership in approach to lifereally. So when I was already
working at the at the radiostation, I started working in
clubs, DJing and punk bars. Iwas working at ama and Sam the
record man, I was managingbands. I was immersed in the
(04:53):
music business. And then I got ajob. Sorry, I didn't get a job.
Then I went to University ofOttawa and I did my degree in
communications and right beforeI ended my time at university, I
called up city TV and begged fora job at the new music. Moses
nightmare happened to be comingto town for a CRTC hearing
(05:15):
coming from Toronto to Ottawa.
And he agreed to meet me. And Italked his ear off about my
passion. I took him to myapartment, he saw my all my
albums, and I was like, I reallywouldn't shut up. And he agreed
to give me a job answering thephones for the new music. So
that's how I got my my firstsort of entree into city TV. And
(05:37):
then while I was working at CityTV, answering the phones and
being the entertainmentcoordinator and working my way
up, I was JD and JeannieBecker's assistant, I also
worked part time at the localcable company. I had called them
up and asked, I said, Hi, myname is Erica, can I have a job?
(05:57):
hosting a show? an entertainmentshow? And the guy on the phone?
His name is Willie john. Hesaid, Sure. Honestly, not a word
of a lie. So I went down to thelocal community programming
channel, McLean Hunter, and Istarted hosting a show there. I
did that for two years, youknow, for free, have
volunteered. And then I made ademo tape. And then I got the
(06:18):
job.
Preet Banerjee (06:22):
So okay, so there's something I have to ask
you about here with the statureof Moses Znaimer? How did you
convince him to come?
Erica Ehm (06:28):
Well, first of all, I didn't know about the stature of
Moses Znaimer to be honest.
Listen, I was how old was I? Iwas 19 years old. And he his
wife was friends with my mom. SoI just knew him as this, you
know, Moses, his husband, like Ididn't understand he was Moses
nightmare, right? So thatignorance was very useful. But
(06:49):
at the same time, I think evenstill, today, I am absolutely
fearless. When I want something,I know that I can't let fear get
in my way. And also, I rememberthat everybody is a person. He's
a guy, he's like a person withone would assume a heart and an
(07:10):
interest in, you know, youngtalent. He runs a TV station,
you know, one would assume thathe'd be interested in finding
new people who could fit withhis vision. So I think in life,
you have to be fearless. Becausenobody is going to walk up to
you and offer you anythingexcept this particular podcast
(07:31):
that you asked me to do. But anyother opportunity, I had to call
and ask about,
Preet Banerjee (07:40):
That takes quite a bit of courage to do something
like that. But that, you know,let's talk about the transition
from Alright, so now you'reanswering the phones? How do you
go to being on air? Because thatin itself is also transition,
you expect that, you know,someone with experience in front
of the camera would would getthat opportunity? So how did you
(08:02):
then take that next sort offearless leap to say, I should
be the one who's in front of acamera? Because especially at
the time when there wasn't a lotof channels, there weren't a lot
of big TV stars. That would takea lot of gumption to say, Oh,
yeah, that should definitely beme.
Erica Ehm (08:19):
It had to be me. List n, I was, I was the music cura
or in Montreal, because I washe DJ, in the punk and new w
ve bars. That's all I wantedI never and still don't care ab
ut fame. I want to be an influece on your passions, on your vis
(08:40):
on in life, and not just in muic and culture. But I am over
ly loud about being kind and rle modeling behavior that I th
nk is important to make the wold better. So I, I take that
on myself. Why? Or how I made tat transition was an interest
ng one. Because a I was alredy hosting a show on cable. I
(09:02):
ad actually hosted a showin Montreal when I was DJi
g. Someone said to me, do you wnt to host a show that we're do
ng it was called music video. Tat was probably in 1979. It's st
ll you can search it, i's somewhere on YouTube. And I j
st was like, Oh my god, I lve Siouxsie and the Banshees
so much, you really have touy that album. I mean, I
as already doing it. But whatas interesting about city TV
(09:26):
nd much music was that they ofen hired internally. And we'll t
lk about that later, when we dohe conversation about
my reinvention of the vj Show.
'm discovering so many interestng things about other people
ho were doing have done simiar jobs to me at muchmusic.
nd there is a theme where thereis a prediction predisposition f
(09:47):
om Moses and his team to hre people who were already part
of sort of our Ico who understod What much music was about,
nd we're passionate about musicnd culture, but didn't h
ve experience as a broadcaster.
(10:09):
nd Moses, his incredible insiht was that you can te
ch broadcasting, but you ca't teach passion. So if you look
at the people who were on, not jst much music, but on city TV
as well, the environmentalist,or example, were not broadcaste
(10:30):
s. They were environmenal warriors, who were given
he access to microphone and camra and learned to tell stories
in front of people. Because, asou know, you're not a broadcas
er by trade. You're right, likeou your experience is differe
t. But you've taught yourselI mean, it doesn't take that m
(10:53):
ch to be a great storyteller. Itis hard to be a great listen
r, which you are. But peoplere drawn to people who
re authentically passionatend knowledgeable about somethi
g. And Moses knew firsthand thaI lived the life I walked
he talk. And there weren't wheI went on the air, I was 23. Th
(11:17):
re were not probably any girlsor women in the country who had
he background already that I hd, at that age, I went for it
I was focus
Preet Banerjee (11:29):
And when you when you first went on air as a
much music vj. Did you knowright then in there that this
format is going to explode. Thisis going to partly define an
entire generation. Did you evercome to that realization? Was
there a moment in time where yousaid, Wow, I'm a really big
deal.
Erica Ehm (11:49):
I had no idea. The weird thing was much music was
this shitty office with dirtydesks scattered and old cameras,
like the gear was shitty, and wereally didn't have a lot of
money. So internally, we werenot treated. That would be the
honor people were not reallytreated that much differently
(12:10):
than the rest of the crew.
Everybody had a function withinthe Office at my job was to be
in front of the camera and tellthe story. But I was really not
much more important than theperson doing audio because if
the person who did audio didn'tdo their job, well, no one could
hear me. Like we were a reallytight group. And we were not
allowed to have any errors orsense of self importance about
(12:32):
us. In fact, I was warnedrepeatedly, stupidly, I think
that I was easily replaced thatthat was probably the worst
management style. And I said tomyself, actually, when I worked
there, I was like, why are theydoing this to me when I am so
passionately proud of workingfor this corporation and and
basically working for them? 24seven? Why would they tell me
(12:55):
that. And in fact, it itencouraged me to pull back more
and more, and start planting myown entrepreneurial seeds while
working there. And I always saidto myself, you know, if I ever
ran my own business, I willtreat my employees or the
contractors or whoever they are100% differently. I will tell
(13:17):
them all the time, how valuedthey are, how irreplaceable they
are, because you can neverreplace one person because one
person is completely differentthan somebody else. One person
has unique skill sets, right? Soyou can never actually replace
them. And that's why people workfor me. When I started my my
agency and my company years ago.
(13:41):
Some of the people still workfor me. They simply want to go
back to you. So it sounds likeyour life Sokolow. I'm so sorry.
But
Preet Banerjee (13:48):
Are you kidding?
Are you kidding? I know, all myfriends and listeners are gonna
say, Listen, this should be atwo hour podcast. I'd love to
hear Erica's voice. I think fora lot of people, it brings them
back, you know, to to that timein our lives. And we were so
formed by things around us. Iremember watching much music,
everyone watched that afterschool, coming home, it was just
a huge part of everyone's lives.
(14:12):
But I want to talk about this,this paradox. So you know, on
one hand, you talked about howthe culture was really important
and what Moses's stamp was on,you find the passion, you can
teach them, you know, thetechnical aspects of the job,
but you need people first. Andthen this management, you know,
style of saying to people youcan be you can be replaced, that
(14:34):
really seemed to go against it.
So what triggered you to startthinking about leaving? Do you
think that that messaging madeyou say, Well, I need to start
thinking about the next stepbecause they're basically
telling me that I'm replaceable.
This presents a bit of a risk,you know, from an employee's
perspective, that is not a greatthing to hear. And so you said
(14:58):
you started to plant these He'sabout what was going to happen
next. How did you plant thoseseeds which initiated the next
reinvention of Erica?
Erica Ehm (15:09):
Well, I dabbled in entrepreneurism when I started a
hat company. I don't know if youknow this, but I used to wear
hats all the time at much and itwas really hard to find good
hats. Because I was atrendsetter. So when you're
trendsetter, it's hard to findthe things that you're looking
for. Right? So I did a fewseasons of by, you know,
(15:33):
designing, finding youngdesigners designing the hats
getting them. It was so cool,getting them made manufactured
in Canada, in Toronto, we foundhat manufacturers, and then
getting them shipped to mybasement, and then shipping them
out to people and selling themlike it was a fascinating
experience. And I had somereally great hats to wear for a
(15:55):
long time. So that was one ofthe things I also started to do
a lot of voiceovers. So I wasstarting to understand the world
of advertising. Then I started arecord label. Well, the problem
was, I actually quit this is it.
Can I tell you a good story?
Preet Banerjee (16:10):
Of course you can.
Erica Ehm (16:11):
Okay, so in about 1989, I'd been on air for four
years, and I found out that Iwas making significantly less
money than the men. So on onehand, it made sense in terms of
seniority because I hadn't beena broadcaster for as long as
then I was younger thaneverybody at the time. However,
(16:33):
I was getting more fan mail thana lot of the people or at least
as much and I was becomingsynonymous with the nation's
music station. And I workedreally hard. So I went into my
boss's office, and I was youknow, I had all the statistics
about how I was getting moremale than people etc. And I
(16:54):
offered a job. So I asked himfor a raise. And my boss said to
me, I heard you're reallydifficult to work with. Yeah,
you could see you're rollingyour eyes because I was like,
What the fuck did you say to me?
I, my head, you know, that emojiof exploding heads? That was me.
Right? And I said to him, in avery professional way, fuck off.
(17:18):
And I left. Oh, sorry. I said,fuck off. I quit. And I stormed
out. Like that was that I amworking my ass off proudly,
without a moment of complaintfor your company. And for me,
because I love my job. Andthat's the that's the way you
(17:39):
reply to me. So I quit. I turnedoff my phone. And I called up my
friend Tim thorny first before Iturned off my phone, crying Tim,
I quit my job. He goes, What me?
What are you doing? I said, Itold him what happened? And he
said Good for you. He said, Canyou write a song songwriter, and
(18:00):
he was a jingle producer. And Isaid, I don't know, as I wiped
my tears. He said come over andwe'll try and write a song.
Well, we ended up actually beingable to craft quite a good song.
He's an amazing songwriter. Andwe ended up becoming songwriting
partners for 10 years. And westarted a record label and we
won Juno Awards and CountryMusic Awards, and so can awards.
(18:22):
Anyway, fast forward to fourdays later, returned my phone
back on. And my boss called theother boss is like Erica, come
on, come back. They're freakingout. Right? Because everyone's
asking Where's Erica? And Isaid, I'm not coming until you
give me the raise that I askedfor he goes, we'll give you the
raise come back. So I started anew career as a songwriter and
(18:46):
got the raise that I deserved.
Preet Banerjee (18:49):
So you were able to start this new sort of
revenue stream this new passionand you also went back to being
on air at muchmusic with therays that that you had initially
asked for. So that was certainlylike pulling teeth negotiating
the hard way. And again, a lotof people may not have the the
(19:09):
same level of
Erica Ehm (19:13):
tenacity,
Preet Banerjee (19:14):
Yeah, tenac ty to negotiate for themselves.
So So when it comes to your advie for people when they ar
in a situation where they fee, you know, I should be makin
more What do you haveike a prescription as to how to
ackle that conversation withith a
Erica Ehm (19:33):
I actually went to a therapist to understand
behavior. So the next time thatI was in a situation like that,
because I didn't like myreaction, I don't think that
fuck off is actually a usefulway of dealing with it, but it
was how a 27 year old respondedpure emotion. You need to be in
(19:56):
control of your emotions and youneed to learn How to not be
defensive. So when someone comesat you with something like that,
I'd say that's an interestingperspective. Can you tell me
where you got that informationfrom? You have to be calm. And
you have to be able to respond,even though you think that
(20:17):
person is the biggest jerk. Andyou let them talk. And you might
even say, you know, what, if youcan provide me some of that
documentation, I'm going to goaway and look at it, and I'll
come back to you.
Preet Banerjee (20:31):
Because it sounds like bullshit what he
said, like, that sounds likethat sounds like something that
he would never say to a man.
Erica Ehm (20:37):
Thank you. But I also think in life, you need to
control your emotions,especially women, and not that
women are more emotional, butthey're judged right? on how
they respond with or withouttheir emotions. So I've learned
to be a man. My I run mybusiness, like I'm a man,
(21:01):
someone brought me a mugrecently. And it says on it,
don't fuck with me. So ifsomeone comes at me with
something that is irrational, orsomething that irks me, I will
respond in a non defensive way.
I will say, I hear what you'resaying, I need to think about
that. And I'll get back to you.
(21:22):
Now, interestingly enough, CBTtherapy, explained to me that we
experienced strong emotions forabout 20 to 40 seconds, and then
it goes away. So when you're ina position where you're feeling
triggered, especially at work,but also in life, you just need
(21:42):
to walk away, be calm, walkaway. And I will guarantee you
that you'll have a clear head ina few minutes. And it's at that
point, you're going to respond.
So if you get an email that istriggering you, you know, what
the fuck are they taught, whatthe fuck, just go calm down. I'm
not gonna say anything, I'm notresponding. And then take the
(22:03):
time, and respond in a nonconfrontational way. Always. If
you're confrontational, it justgoes up, and up and up. And
suddenly you're in a war, youneed to find a way to defuse and
win. So not give in, defuse, andfind a way to win and negotiate
(22:27):
in a non defensive, open way, Ihear what you're saying.
Preet Banerjee (22:35):
It's such great advice. I know, thinking of the
times where I've let my emotionsin the heat of a moment, get the
better of my responses. Andanytime I've seen that with
people around me, you'vebasically boxed yourself into a
corner, there are very few movesyou can make once you've passed
once you've crossed the Rubicon,right. But if you can pause and
(22:57):
come back later, you can be alot more strategic. It's like,
you know, it's like anythinghindsight is 2020. But you don't
have to make a decision in themoment. And if you take the time
to defuse, and then come backwhen you've had time to think
about it, it is so much moreeffective. For people.
Erica Ehm (23:16):
We're obsessed with returning emails, or when the
phone rings answering it. Don'tanswer the phone. You're in
control. We are in control ofour own lives. Your boss is not
in control of you, your coworkers are not in control of
you. You control it. Be smart,as to how you speak to people.
(23:43):
And how you communicate. Besmart. use technology wisely use
social media wisely. It is it'sin your it's in your hands to
control.
Preet Banerjee (23:55):
As you mentioned, there was this
period, I think was 94 is whenyou left much music and you
really were a renaissance woman.
You You wrote songs plays, youwrote books, children's books.
As you mentioned, you won abunch of awards, Canadian
Country Music Awards. So Kansasjunos. You were in Robocop? Yes,
(24:17):
it was. So you acted for a whileand you were in Robocop the TV
series? Not not the movie, butthat was pretty was that shot in
Toronto, or did you have to go?
I did
Erica Ehm (24:30):
it while I was working. I think it was working
at much at the same time or isright around the same time.
Preet Banerjee (24:35):
Yeah. Right. And so there's a bunch of different
things that you're you had yourhands in. But then I want to
talk about your next sort ofreinvention into being a sort
of, you know, full fledgedentrepreneur and sort of putting
everything together and alsodefining I think next period of
your life and that is YummyMummy. club.ca. So that was I
(24:59):
think 15 years ago now 2006.
Yep. So when when did you havethe idea to start this business
and why?
Erica Ehm (25:11):
Well, the difference between what I was doing in
those earlier years after muchwas I was a contractor. I was an
independent contractor that wassort of for hire. Some of it was
entrepreneurial, some of it, Iwas being hired, but I really
wasn't in control of my destiny.
Then I had kids and my worldexploded, and I had a really
hard time adjusting tomotherhood, because I'm typing.
(25:33):
I like to make things happen andkids don't listen. You know, you
say, buddy, go to bed. Andthey're like, no, buddy, I got
to do work. They're like, no. Soit was it was really hard for me
to adjust. And, but I knew thatwhat turns me on, is listening
(25:53):
to my passion. And my family hadbecome my passion, trying to
understand parenting, because Ihad no fucking clue what I was
doing. I didn't have a lot offriends who had kids, most of my
friends were working women. Andthey hadn't gone down that road.
Even though when I had my kids,I was old. I was 39 when I had
my son. So I was like, out of mydepth. So I started working at I
(26:17):
looked for jobs. First of all,no one wanted to hire me because
I was fat and old. 100% tellingyou, my career was over. So
that's number one. I was dead.
No one wanted to hear from me,no one wanted to talk to me. So
I looked on, like the media jobsearch. And I found the job of
(26:40):
reporter or writer for what's upkids magazine. And they hired
me. So my job was to writestories about issues relating to
parenting. And I loved it.
Because I was basically learningabout what I was most interested
in, much like music. And thereason why I left much music was
because I got tired of it. I wasnow really immersed in this
(27:02):
world. And I wanted to find waysto tell more stories. But nobody
was talking about the reality ofbeing a mother today. Which is,
it's shitty, it's hard.
Everybody says, Oh, I'm doinggreat. Like, well, why am I
struggling? Why is this so hard?
I started, I came up with thisidea for a TV show called Yummy
(27:26):
Mummy. And I was at an event.
And a woman came up to me andgave me her business card. It
was all scrunched up withsomeone else's name written on
it. And she said, call me. And Iwas like, Yeah, you're 12.
Anyway, I did call her becauseyou always go after every
opportunity. And sure enough,she was sourcing ideas for a
(27:50):
production company. And Ipitched them the idea of Yummy
Mummy which would, you know,celebrate and commiserate the
roller coaster of modernmotherhood, and they bought it.
So I suddenly had a TV series.
It was broadcast on life networkand syndicated on Discovery
health around the world. I wrotethe show, I hosted it, I co
produced it. And the show wascool, because it was kind of
(28:13):
shot against a green screen. Soit was like peewee Herman's
Playhouse combined with a, likea lifestyle show. And you can
still buy episodes for 99 centson amazon prime. How crazy is
that? So that was 2003 to 2005.
And when the show ended, Iwasn't down I was like, Oh my
god, I am building communityhere. And so I started this
(28:36):
little tiny website called yummymommy club.ca, which was sort of
supposed to be a continuation ofthe TV show. But there was no
business model for this. So Iwas doing it really, because I
needed friends. I was trying tofind a community of like minded
women.
So I built about 300 pages, andit started to pick up momentum.
(28:57):
Remember, there were there werebarely mommy blogs at the time.
This was a head of mommy blogs.
And PR people started to come tome and saying, you know, hey, if
you write about us, we'll giveyou a mop. Right? And I'd like
fuck off. And so I came up withthis one line, which is what's
your budget? They're like, What?
(29:17):
What's your budget? I'm workinghere. If you'd like me to
connect to your product withmoms, what's your budget, and
that was when the light wentoff. And I was like, I can work
with brands to tell theirstories in meaningful ways. And
connect them to my audience,started hiring people, it
started to grow. And we becamethe leaders in branded content.
(29:43):
Back in 2007 was when my firstbig project with Fuji films
launched where we sent out a wehad created a integrated
contest. We were on Twitter, westarted spreading the
information on Twitter. We had anewsletters. out, we had a whole
bunch of articles about how totake photographs of your family
(30:06):
brought to you by Fuji. That wasthrough Apex PR, I'll never
forget it, because when yourfirst project is sold it, you
know, you build it, and thenthey will come. And I was able
to use a case study to showother brands, that mom's loved
what we were doing, and thatthey were, they were passing it
on, and it became semi viral,etc. And so my business was was
(30:30):
born. And then we we launched Mand CO, which is an agency
because people thought that wewere just a website. But no, we
are, in fact, an agency thatconnects brands with moms. And
then I had 500 families, eachwho had mom blogs or Twitter
accounts, and they started toextend and amplify our programs.
(30:52):
And they were way before therewas such a thing as influencers.
So I I basically started thefirst influencer agency back in
2008.
Preet Banerjee (31:02):
Wow. Yeah, I mean, it's it's strange, you
know, 2008 doesn't sound like itwas such a long time ago. But
in, in the in the space of timethat influencer marketing has
grown, it seems like that's onlybeen around for like five years.
But you again, we'retrailblazing You know, this,
(31:23):
this whole industry. So I wantto talk a little bit about some
of the work that mn co has donebecause I was intrigued by a
report that you put out calledthe current COVID state of mom.
And, you know, for for any ofthe brands who are out there
listening, you know, this, thissurvey, breaks down what
(31:43):
Canadian moms are doing, howthey're handling the pandemic.
And I think it makes sense tocontinue our theme of
reinvention, this time, we'refocused on the brand
perspective, this should not benews to them. But things have
changed. consumer preferenceshave changed dramatically in the
last year. Things like just lookat Fitness peloton bikes Who
would have thought a $3,000stationary bike that you have to
(32:05):
pay a monthly subscription forwhat would blow up the lobby, my
condo is basically an Amazonwarehouse, everyone has shifted
to so much more onlineconsumption. So, you know,
brands that thrive are the onesthat can figure out the shifts,
and you have done research tosee what what is the state of
(32:29):
mind for for moms? And howshould brands be thinking about
what they're doing in light ofthis new information? So what if
you could talk to us a littlebit about the survey and sort of
the big findings that you weresurprised by?
Erica Ehm (32:45):
Well, I would have to say that I wasn't that surprised
because my agency is run by momsfor moms. Right? So we're all
living it what it did, it justconfirmed that I'm not alone,
that what I'm going throughother moms all over the country
are going through 700 momsreplied, and the results really
(33:06):
spoke loudly. 85% of or sorry,78% of moms said that they're
worried about their families,mental and physical health. 42%
of moms say they're not havingsex at all. I think it's seven,
I don't have the numbers writtenfor him. But something like 73%
of moms say that they have verylittle me time alone time. So
Preet Banerjee (33:32):
I imagine that was not I mean, they probably
have very little Meantime, prepandemic, but I imagine that the
stress and the additional timemanagement required to
coordinate, you know, schoolclosures, daycare closures, meal
prep, all that stuff has beenadded to the plate with the
(33:52):
extra challenge of timemanagement, but extra burden as
well, because we see that thatwomen and moms take on more of
the burden with what's happenedwith the pandemic. In fact,
there was just the December jobsreport out of the US 140,000
jobs lost. And it was theNational Women's Law Center that
said all of them belong towomen.
Erica Ehm (34:14):
Yeah. Well, it's interesting that only 30% of
women said that they're worriedabout paying their bills, or
that it's their top concern. Ithink that number is going to
rise in the coming weeks andmonths, as more and more
businesses continue to stayclosed. And also women are
giving up their jobs now to stayhome because their kids are not
(34:37):
going to school, right? Someonehas to be home. So it's a really
challenging time for women. Theconsumption of junk food and
wine is up 70% amongst women, sowhich means their weight is
going to be going up, which isnot a surprise the pandemic
(34:58):
weight that I'm as you I can seeyou're looking at me now I'm, I
look jolly. Now.
Preet Banerjee (35:05):
You look beautiful.
Erica Ehm (35:06):
Thank you. I am, you know also dealing with all the
ramifications of being lockeddown with my family, women are
saying that the stress ofpreparing meals every day is
rising. I think it's 60% of momssay that they're more stressed
at mealtime that they're morechallenged to find what they're
(35:26):
going to prepare for theirfamilies like these are huge
daily stresses that moms arecontending with. They're also
eating out significantly less.
So in terms of CPG companies.
Hello, moms need you right now.
Right. And they need recipes.
They need ways to prepare mealsthat are exciting, fast and
(35:50):
inexpensive. So those are thekinds of things that and also
junk food. They're looking forjunk food, and if you're in the
wine or alcohol business, momsare looking for some fun. And I
think that fun is, you know,okay, let me let me just sort of
go back a little bit. One of thereasons why we prepared this
(36:11):
survey is that a lot of brandsare afraid to market right now.
Because they don't want tomisstep. They don't want to, you
know, say something that willland the wrong way. Because moms
are really in a good state ofmind right now. So that
hopefully, this survey, in fact,people can get it, they can,
they can just email me or go toM and CO and e h m co.com. And
(36:37):
they can just go there, andwe'll send you the full report.
Because I think it's reallyimportant, you know, on behalf
of all women, that I don't wantbrands to alienate their
audience, or their consumers byreally not understanding the
stress and anxiety that they'redealing with. And also not
understanding the opportunitiesthat are there for them to
(37:01):
market to moms, they may notunderstand that women are
looking for new ways ofpreparing meals, or we asked
them if you could, if a geniecould offer you and one wish,
what would it be? And themajority of people said house
cleaner, meal prep, and a tutorfor their kids. So Boom, boom,
(37:23):
boom. If you're working in thoseindustries, there are
opportunities, how to clean yourhouse more easily, you know, all
the meal companies. Hello, momsare looking for help right now.
And if you are in the world oftutoring, or helping to educate
kids in any way with any productor service strike now.
Preet Banerjee (37:46):
Yeah, it sounds like if you're looking for a
campaign, and you wantintelligence on what that
campaign should be focused on,visit to Erica's company's
website. So a lot of people maynot know the spelling of your
last name, right? It's just kindof like share, you know, it's
just people know the name isEric M. It's not m it's eh M.
And so the website for thecompany, if they want to get
(38:08):
that report is
Erica Ehm (38:10):
ehmco.com
Preet Banerjee (38:13):
I want to talk about a few other things. And I
know that, you know, a lot of myfriends will have questions
about some of the highlights atmuchmusic. There is one thing I
want to ask you about. So I knowa lot of people talk about that
that famous Kurt Cobaininterview. And it was conducted,
(38:35):
I think it was nine monthsbefore his death. You You wrote
a blog post that talked aboutkind of like the behind the
scenes, which I thought was suchan interesting read. And I
recommend people go there andthey can find that information
on your personal blog, I think.
Yeah. And you mentioned that atthe time you wrote the blog
piece at the video of thatinterview had gone viral with 5
million views. Do you know howmany people have have viewed
(38:57):
that now? Because it'ssignificantly higher than that?
How many? It's about to hit 10million views. Wow. Yeah. And
which
Erica Ehm (39:08):
I had no idea. At that time. That would be the
interview that defined mycareer.
Preet Banerjee (39:14):
Right. Right.
Well, I think what was sodifferent about that interview
is how disarming you were?
Because you're your firstquestion, the biggest rock star
in the world. First question isabout books. And immediately you
see that that interview is goingto take a different path than
(39:35):
what was in his mind, I think.
Erica Ehm (39:38):
So I do a book showing much where talk to do
what a bookshelf, talk todifferent people about favorite
books that you've read and howhas inspired you or what you
learn from it or something likethat. So do you have a book that
that comes back to you amongstone?
Kurt Cobain (39:55):
Yeah, well, I've read perfume by Patrick Siskin
About 10 times in my life, and Ican't stop reading it, it's like
something that's just stationaryin my pocket all the time. It
just doesn't leave me. And everytime I'm bored, like I'm on a
airplane or something, I read itover and over again. Because I'm
a hypochondriac, and it justaffects me makes me want to cut
(40:16):
my nose off.
Erica Ehm (40:17):
What's the book about,
Unknown (40:18):
it's about this perfume apprentice in in France, at the
turn of the century, and he, heis disgusted, basically, with
all humans, and he just can'tget away from humans. So he goes
on this track, this walk ofdeath, where he just, he goes
into the rural areas wherethere's, you know, woods all
(40:38):
over the place in the smallvillages. And he only travels by
night. And he, he just everytime he smells human, like a
fire from afar off way, andhe'll just get really disgusted
and hide, and he just tries tostay away from people can relate
to
Erica Ehm (40:56):
ever use what you read in any of your songs.
Kurt Cobain (40:59):
As a matter of fact, I use that very story in
scentless apprentice.
Preet Banerjee (41:03):
Yeah. And it was a compelling interview to watch
if people haven't seen it. AndI've seen it, you know, back in
the day, and I saw when youposted your blog post, and I'm
probably gonna watch it again,because it's so engaging. And I
imagine was for him as well. Andyou, you talked about, you know,
your thoughts during theinterviews, like, Oh, you know,
I thought it was gonna be thisbig ego, and he's a sweetheart.
(41:26):
So what was your most memorablein a bad way? interview that you
had with an artist or band?
Erica Ehm (41:34):
I talked a lot about this. I really didn't like my
interview with or not, I didn'tlike my interview. I didn't like
the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Really? Why? Well, when I wasinterviewing them, before the
interview, we warn them, youknow, this is live. So try to
keep your swearing to a minimum,you know, it's rock and roll and
(41:55):
everything. But we have alicense from the CRTC. And
you're not really supposed toswear. And I remember, this was
30 odd years ago. So a lot haschanged in the world of
broadcast. And for those who areyounger than me, you may not
know that you weren't allowed toswear on television ever. Right?
It was not okay. You could uselose your license. So when I was
(42:17):
interviewing them, they startedto swear in the middle of it.
And when we went to break,because it was a long interview,
when we went to break, I said tothem, guys, we can lose our
license, or something to thateffect. Please don't swear.
Sorry. They were so nice. Sorry.
(42:39):
Sorry. We won't do that again.
Like we get it. We get it. We goback on. And they went right
back into. Yeah, I'm a rockstar, right. And so I was like,
Fuck you. I didn't say that. Butin my mind, I was like, Fuck
you. This interview is over. Andyou could see they're like,
what? No. And the reason why Ialways cite this as one of my
(43:04):
least favorite, because otherpeople have been less
forthcoming and they've beenboring or whatever. But they
were fake. Who is the realperson? They were, I saw two
different people. I saw a groupof people who were in front of a
camera. And then I saw a groupof people who were very
different when the camera wasn'ton, I don't know, which was the
(43:27):
real one. But I didn't like thefact that they were absolutely
inauthentic and they were fullof shit. And I can't abide
people who are full of shit.
Preet Banerjee (43:43):
That's a that's that's an awful story to hear. I
can only imagine what it wouldbeen like in the moment because
I have limited experience withyou know, broadcasting live. ie,
was asked to do some fill inradio hosting on Newstalk 1010
for Jim Richards so I'll do likea week here or there when he's
(44:05):
on vacation. And it's a nervewracking thing. And you know, I
benefit from the there's a sevensecond delay or whatever the the
delay is, and a producer is incontrol of that. But when you
have someone who you know,you've dedicated a block of time
live in a schedule, and they'vedecided to completely be
(44:27):
disrespectful. And then you'vegot to run out that clock,
right? There's only so much tapdancing you can do that is
awful. Like just I sympathizewith that like that just makes
my toes curl.
Erica Ehm (44:40):
I think first of all, people who are watching are
rooting for the host Yeah, to bein control and to own it. People
I think are very uncomfortablewhen the host feels powerless.
That's probably why you knowwhen we were watching the
debates, With the presidents,the future presidents, and
(45:03):
everybody was mortified at howTrump overrode the moderators.
And everyone was yelling at themoderate moderators, you need to
do more. That's our job, as thehost is to literally control the
conversation. Now, that doesn'tmean control it in the sense of
overtake it, or be overbearing.
For example, when I interviewedDuran Duran, it was complete
(45:26):
chaos. But I, me and the leadsinger, Simon, the bomb, we
would have these sort of, hewould look at me while he was
spraying me with water or aboutto throw cake at me or
something, to make sure that Iwas okay. And I looked at him,
and I sort of nodded and smiled.
(45:48):
And so it was not out ofcontrol. I was fine.
Preet Banerjee (45:51):
Yeah, I trust.
Erica Ehm (45:52):
That's right. And I knew this is good TV. Yeah,
yeah. Which is different than itbeing out of control, and that
the guest is doing, what thehost doesn't want, or what the
station doesn't want. And so I'mvery comfortable in any
circumstances to say, that's it.
You're I think being a parent,it probably helps now, you're
(46:13):
done. Stop.
Preet Banerjee (46:19):
Alright, well, we'll leave it there. But as you
know, every guest on thispodcast gets the last minute or
two, to provide a commercial oranything that they want to
promote. Now, the challenge withyou is you've got a lot of
things, a lot of irons in thefire, but the floor is yours.
Who do you want to send yourmessage to your commercial to?
(46:40):
And where do you want to directthem?
Erica Ehm (46:42):
Well, I think it's less of a commercial and a
reminder about the reinventionof the vj podcast that I
launched. Recently, during thelockdown, I was able to contact
a whole bunch of people who usedto work at muchmusic. And do a
really personal reconnectionwith each of them. Now, some of
(47:05):
them I'd never met before. But alot of the people I sort of grew
up with. So to go back to thattime to discover how they landed
their jobs that much what theirfeelings were and memories were
that may have been different orthe same as me, which validated
a lot of my insecurities andissues that I had from back in
(47:28):
the day like oh, you to be doand then to follow their lives
after to see if much wasactually helpful or a hindrance
in moving forward in theircareers to date. Because all of
us I mean, have, it's almost 20to 30 years for most people have
had interesting lives after thefact. So finding that the
(47:52):
reaction has been prettyamazing, a lot of emotion from
people listening, because ittriggers a lot of the stuff from
their childhoods or their teenyears. And you really get to
learn people learn what makespeople tick. And also, there was
a secondary, which to me wasalmost more important piece of
(48:12):
reinvention where we all get tolearn what it takes to reinvent,
because as you said at the topof our conversation, many of us
are going through really toughtimes right now and being forced
to reinvent in a variety ofways. And hopefully this show
will give you some littleinsights. how other people have
(48:32):
managed to pivot their careers.
Preet Banerjee (48:35):
Yeah, no, I think it is worthwhile
listening. And again, the titleis perfect reinvention of the vj
because this this genre, youguys were the trailblazers, and
then that format completelychanged, right? It used to be
you know, music videos on music,television stations. Now it's
not right, you you it istransformed how we consume that
(49:00):
music, different mediums andwhat have you. But everyone has
had to face who's been a gueston that podcast, a reinvention
of themselves. Some of it wasforced, some of it was, you
know, more endogenously decidedto reinvent themselves, even
though they didn't necessarilyneed to, but the lessons there
are applicable to a wide varietyof people, not just people in,
(49:23):
you know, Music Entertainment.
Erica Ehm (49:25):
Well, what's interesting is if you consider
why a lot of people eventuallyleft is there was a shift in
technology, right? Because asmuch music evolved, so did
YouTube, and the value that muchmusic brought diminished as
(49:46):
people became intrigued by thisnew platform where they had
videos on demand. But I thinkwhat happened is they got those
videos on demand, but realizedthat what much music really
brought was the curation Havethose videos. And so I think
people are struggling right nowto find where do I get my ghost
(50:07):
stories? Where do I get thebackground? That's I think,
where a lot of people aremissing those days of much
music. It's the personality andthe insights and the knowledge
from the hosts that makes thatmake those videos even better.
Preet Banerjee (50:24):
It's so it's such a good point. You know, one
of the things that I've noticedwhen I'm consuming news is you
can get news on demand, anytime,Twitter, Facebook, whatever. So
for the nightly broadcast, Idon't find the value as much as
what happened. But where I findthe real value is, tell me why
this is important when they dothe panels that talk about, you
(50:47):
know, politics or whatever. Andthey tell you Okay, so this
happened. But here's thebackstory, you don't know. And
this is why it's so relevant. Sothat analysis, the curation, in
this case of news to helpdistill What does this mean to
you why is important, is changedthe way I consume news based on
before, which was, you know,again, you didn't have these
(51:07):
competing sources of news. Soyou kind of come in knowing the
headlines, but now you want toknow, well, tell me about what
happens beneath those headlines.
Erica Ehm (51:17):
What what's interesting, though, is that
curation now, is also slanted.
Yeah, more so than before? Yes,those large companies each seem
to have an agenda or point ofview. So we are now having to
understand this panel is onwhich network which already has
(51:38):
sort of stated their affinity toa certain point of view. And I
think back in the day, it wasfar more non partisan. Right.
Preet Banerjee (51:51):
Yeah, that's a great point, because there are
panels where it's not balanced.
The value in having, you know, abalanced presentation of ideas
is important. This could be awhole other podcast. But well,
like I said, well, we'll leaveit there. I want to thank you so
much for taking time out of yourbusy schedule. To to join me on
(52:12):
the podcast. It's been a realpleasure.
Erica Ehm (52:18):
Thank you so much for having me. I could talk forever
I didn't like the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Preet Banerjee (00:02):
Really? Why?
Erica Ehm (00:03):
Well, when I was interviewing them before the
interview, we warned them youknow this is live. So try to
keep your swearing to a minimum.
Preet Banerjee (00:20):
Welcome to the mostly money podcast with your
host, Preet Banerjee.
This is mostly money and I'myour host Preet Banerjee. And on
the show today I'll be speakingwith Canadian royalty. Erica
Ehm, was one of the firstmuchmusic VJs, who spent 10
(00:41):
years captivating andinfluencing young Canadians,
young Canadians then who todayare my age. And every time I
mentioned that, Hey, I knowErica M. Without a single
exception, every single one ofthem physically grabs my arm,
and tells me how they were madlyin love with her. 15 years ago,
(01:03):
she founded Yummy Mummy clubwhich connects brands with
Canadian moms. In 2012, shebecame a pioneer yet again, in
branded content and socialengagement with the launch of m
and Co. More recently, shelaunched a new podcast called
reinvention of the vj, whichincludes interviews with much
music DJs, like GeorgeStroumboulopoulos, Rick the
(01:25):
temp, Amanda Walsh, and manymore. And I came to know her
from crossing paths on theprofessional speaking world. And
I'm so delighted to have Eric onthe show today, and our theme
will be re invention becauseshe's absolutely an authority on
it. And because it's somethingso many people are grappling
with right now, both personallyand professionally. So you're
(01:47):
the perfect guest at the perfecttime. Erica, welcome to the
show.
Erica Ehm (01:51):
And you're the perfect host. So this is gonna
be the perfect show.
Preet Banerjee (01:54):
You can't say something like that, because I
do not have the background tojustify that praise. But I'll
take it. I'll take it.
Unknown (02:00):
I'm sure you will.
Preet Banerjee (02:02):
Now I want to I want to talk about your new
podcast, obviously reinventionof the VJ because as I said,
reinvention is such a strongtheme and people's lives right
now. But before we do that,let's talk a little bit about
how the VJ was invented in thefirst place. How did you get
that gig but as because itwasn't like something where,
hey, we're looking for peoplewith experience as VJs for
(02:25):
music, television that didn'texist you you define that genre.
So how did that happen? in thefirst place?
Erica Ehm (02:32):
Well, like most things, it takes a lot of effort
behind the scenes, everyonethinks, Oh, you know, I think a
lot of people think I slept withmy boss, or one of the bosses,
honestly, oh, there's, there's afull conspiracy theory about
that. But the real story is whenI was 16 years old, I had
(02:52):
already decided I was going towork in the music business, and
managed to get on the radio atShowMe FM to be interviewed when
I was 16. Or no, I think I was17 at that point. And so I I
spotted who the program directorwas at ShowMe FM. And when I
went to see the cars concert atthe Montreal forum, decked out
(03:13):
in the latest and greatest NewWave outfit, I marched up to him
Hi, Rob rate, can I have a jobat shome. And he looked at me
and he said, this is actuallytime for me to be watching a
band. But if you would like tocall my assistant, we can talk
about it. So I frickin showed upat ShowMe FM when I was 17 years
(03:34):
old, and asked him for a fulltime job at show with them. And
guess what he said?
Preet Banerjee (03:40):
Of course, he would say yes to you. How could
you say no to you?
Erica Ehm (03:42):
He said no. Oh. He said, Listen, you're still in
school. You can't work here fulltime. But if you'd like, you can
be my music librarian. What thatmeans is you can have access to
the radio station at any time.
Your job would be to organizeall the albums that weren't even
CDs at the time, and keep allthe records organized. And you
(04:05):
get to be here and you get toexperience what it is to work at
a radio station. Of course, Isaid yes. And all the kids at CJ
app where I was at school. Is itlike how did you get the job?
Because it was big news, right?
It was it's the biggest rockradio station. And guess what I
told them? I asked seriously,that's my theme. And you're
(04:29):
gonna see this reinvention themeand I asked as sort of a
partnership in approach to lifereally. So when I was already
working at the at the radiostation, I started working in
clubs, DJing and punk bars. Iwas working at ama and Sam the
record man, I was managingbands. I was immersed in the
(04:53):
music business. And then I got ajob. Sorry, I didn't get a job.
Then I went to University ofOttawa and I did my degree in
communications and right beforeI ended my time at university, I
called up city TV and begged fora job at the new music. Moses
nightmare happened to be comingto town for a CRTC hearing
(05:15):
coming from Toronto to Ottawa.
And he agreed to meet me. And Italked his ear off about my
passion. I took him to myapartment, he saw my all my
albums, and I was like, I reallywouldn't shut up. And he agreed
to give me a job answering thephones for the new music. So
that's how I got my my firstsort of entree into city TV. And
(05:37):
then while I was working at CityTV, answering the phones and
being the entertainmentcoordinator and working my way
up, I was JD and JeannieBecker's assistant, I also
worked part time at the localcable company. I had called them
up and asked, I said, Hi, myname is Erica, can I have a job?
(05:57):
hosting a show? an entertainmentshow? And the guy on the phone?
His name is Willie john. Hesaid, Sure. Honestly, not a word
of a lie. So I went down to thelocal community programming
channel, McLean Hunter, and Istarted hosting a show there. I
did that for two years, youknow, for free, have
volunteered. And then I made ademo tape. And then I got the
(06:18):
job.
Preet Banerjee (06:22):
So okay, so there's something I have to ask
you about here with the statureof Moses Znaimer? How did you
convince him to come?
Erica Ehm (06:28):
Well, first of all, I didn't know about the stature of
Moses Znaimer to be honest.
Listen, I was how old was I? Iwas 19 years old. And he his
wife was friends with my mom. SoI just knew him as this, you
know, Moses, his husband, like Ididn't understand he was Moses
nightmare, right? So thatignorance was very useful. But
(06:49):
at the same time, I think evenstill, today, I am absolutely
fearless. When I want something,I know that I can't let fear get
in my way. And also, I rememberthat everybody is a person. He's
a guy, he's like a person withone would assume a heart and an
(07:10):
interest in, you know, youngtalent. He runs a TV station,
you know, one would assume thathe'd be interested in finding
new people who could fit withhis vision. So I think in life,
you have to be fearless. Becausenobody is going to walk up to
you and offer you anythingexcept this particular podcast
(07:31):
that you asked me to do. But anyother opportunity, I had to call
and ask about,
Preet Banerjee (07:40):
That takes quite a bit of courage to do something
like that. But that, you know,let's talk about the transition
from Alright, so now you'reanswering the phones? How do you
go to being on air? Because thatin itself is also transition,
you expect that, you know,someone with experience in front
of the camera would would getthat opportunity? So how did you
(08:02):
then take that next sort offearless leap to say, I should
be the one who's in front of acamera? Because especially at
the time when there wasn't a lotof channels, there weren't a lot
of big TV stars. That would takea lot of gumption to say, Oh,
yeah, that should definitely beme.
Erica Ehm (08:19):
It had to be me. List n, I was, I was the music cura
or in Montreal, because I washe DJ, in the punk and new w
ve bars. That's all I wantedI never and still don't care ab
ut fame. I want to be an influece on your passions, on your vis
(08:40):
on in life, and not just in muic and culture. But I am over
ly loud about being kind and rle modeling behavior that I th
nk is important to make the wold better. So I, I take that
on myself. Why? Or how I made tat transition was an interest
ng one. Because a I was alredy hosting a show on cable. I
(09:02):
ad actually hosted a showin Montreal when I was DJi
g. Someone said to me, do you wnt to host a show that we're do
ng it was called music video. Tat was probably in 1979. It's st
ll you can search it, i's somewhere on YouTube. And I j
st was like, Oh my god, I lve Siouxsie and the Banshees
so much, you really have touy that album. I mean, I
as already doing it. But whatas interesting about city TV
(09:26):
nd much music was that they ofen hired internally. And we'll t
lk about that later, when we dohe conversation about
my reinvention of the vj Show.
'm discovering so many interestng things about other people
ho were doing have done simiar jobs to me at muchmusic.
nd there is a theme where thereis a prediction predisposition f
(09:47):
om Moses and his team to hre people who were already part
of sort of our Ico who understod What much music was about,
nd we're passionate about musicnd culture, but didn't h
ve experience as a broadcaster.
(10:09):
nd Moses, his incredible insiht was that you can te
ch broadcasting, but you ca't teach passion. So if you look
at the people who were on, not jst much music, but on city TV
as well, the environmentalist,or example, were not broadcaste
(10:30):
s. They were environmenal warriors, who were given
he access to microphone and camra and learned to tell stories
in front of people. Because, asou know, you're not a broadcas
er by trade. You're right, likeou your experience is differe
t. But you've taught yourselI mean, it doesn't take that m
(10:53):
ch to be a great storyteller. Itis hard to be a great listen
r, which you are. But peoplere drawn to people who
re authentically passionatend knowledgeable about somethi
g. And Moses knew firsthand thaI lived the life I walked
he talk. And there weren't wheI went on the air, I was 23. Th
(11:17):
re were not probably any girlsor women in the country who had
he background already that I hd, at that age, I went for it
I was focus
Preet Banerjee (11:29):
And when you when you first went on air as a
much music vj. Did you knowright then in there that this
format is going to explode. Thisis going to partly define an
entire generation. Did you evercome to that realization? Was
there a moment in time where yousaid, Wow, I'm a really big
deal.
Erica Ehm (11:49):
I had no idea. The weird thing was much music was
this shitty office with dirtydesks scattered and old cameras,
like the gear was shitty, and wereally didn't have a lot of
money. So internally, we werenot treated. That would be the
honor people were not reallytreated that much differently
(12:10):
than the rest of the crew.
Everybody had a function withinthe Office at my job was to be
in front of the camera and tellthe story. But I was really not
much more important than theperson doing audio because if
the person who did audio didn'tdo their job, well, no one could
hear me. Like we were a reallytight group. And we were not
allowed to have any errors orsense of self importance about
(12:32):
us. In fact, I was warnedrepeatedly, stupidly, I think
that I was easily replaced thatthat was probably the worst
management style. And I said tomyself, actually, when I worked
there, I was like, why are theydoing this to me when I am so
passionately proud of workingfor this corporation and and
basically working for them? 24seven? Why would they tell me
(12:55):
that. And in fact, it itencouraged me to pull back more
and more, and start planting myown entrepreneurial seeds while
working there. And I always saidto myself, you know, if I ever
ran my own business, I willtreat my employees or the
contractors or whoever they are100% differently. I will tell
(13:17):
them all the time, how valuedthey are, how irreplaceable they
are, because you can neverreplace one person because one
person is completely differentthan somebody else. One person
has unique skill sets, right? Soyou can never actually replace
them. And that's why people workfor me. When I started my my
agency and my company years ago.
(13:41):
Some of the people still workfor me. They simply want to go
back to you. So it sounds likeyour life Sokolow. I'm so sorry.
But
Preet Banerjee (13:48):
Are you kidding?
Are you kidding? I know, all myfriends and listeners are gonna
say, Listen, this should be atwo hour podcast. I'd love to
hear Erica's voice. I think fora lot of people, it brings them
back, you know, to to that timein our lives. And we were so
formed by things around us. Iremember watching much music,
everyone watched that afterschool, coming home, it was just
a huge part of everyone's lives.
(14:12):
But I want to talk about this,this paradox. So you know, on
one hand, you talked about howthe culture was really important
and what Moses's stamp was on,you find the passion, you can
teach them, you know, thetechnical aspects of the job,
but you need people first. Andthen this management, you know,
style of saying to people youcan be you can be replaced, that
(14:34):
really seemed to go against it.
So what triggered you to startthinking about leaving? Do you
think that that messaging madeyou say, Well, I need to start
thinking about the next stepbecause they're basically
telling me that I'm replaceable.
This presents a bit of a risk,you know, from an employee's
perspective, that is not a greatthing to hear. And so you said
(14:58):
you started to plant these He'sabout what was going to happen
next. How did you plant thoseseeds which initiated the next
reinvention of Erica?
Erica Ehm (15:09):
Well, I dabbled in entrepreneurism when I started a
hat company. I don't know if youknow this, but I used to wear
hats all the time at much and itwas really hard to find good
hats. Because I was atrendsetter. So when you're
trendsetter, it's hard to findthe things that you're looking
for. Right? So I did a fewseasons of by, you know,
(15:33):
designing, finding youngdesigners designing the hats
getting them. It was so cool,getting them made manufactured
in Canada, in Toronto, we foundhat manufacturers, and then
getting them shipped to mybasement, and then shipping them
out to people and selling themlike it was a fascinating
experience. And I had somereally great hats to wear for a
(15:55):
long time. So that was one ofthe things I also started to do
a lot of voiceovers. So I wasstarting to understand the world
of advertising. Then I started arecord label. Well, the problem
was, I actually quit this is it.
Can I tell you a good story?
Preet Banerjee (16:10):
Of course you can.
Erica Ehm (16:11):
Okay, so in about 1989, I'd been on air for four
years, and I found out that Iwas making significantly less
money than the men. So on onehand, it made sense in terms of
seniority because I hadn't beena broadcaster for as long as
then I was younger thaneverybody at the time. However,
(16:33):
I was getting more fan mail thana lot of the people or at least
as much and I was becomingsynonymous with the nation's
music station. And I workedreally hard. So I went into my
boss's office, and I was youknow, I had all the statistics
about how I was getting moremale than people etc. And I
(16:54):
offered a job. So I asked himfor a raise. And my boss said to
me, I heard you're reallydifficult to work with. Yeah,
you could see you're rollingyour eyes because I was like,
What the fuck did you say to me?
I, my head, you know, that emojiof exploding heads? That was me.
Right? And I said to him, in avery professional way, fuck off.
(17:18):
And I left. Oh, sorry. I said,fuck off. I quit. And I stormed
out. Like that was that I amworking my ass off proudly,
without a moment of complaintfor your company. And for me,
because I love my job. Andthat's the that's the way you
(17:39):
reply to me. So I quit. I turnedoff my phone. And I called up my
friend Tim thorny first before Iturned off my phone, crying Tim,
I quit my job. He goes, What me?
What are you doing? I said, Itold him what happened? And he
said Good for you. He said, Canyou write a song songwriter, and
(18:00):
he was a jingle producer. And Isaid, I don't know, as I wiped
my tears. He said come over andwe'll try and write a song.
Well, we ended up actually beingable to craft quite a good song.
He's an amazing songwriter. Andwe ended up becoming songwriting
partners for 10 years. And westarted a record label and we
won Juno Awards and CountryMusic Awards, and so can awards.
(18:22):
Anyway, fast forward to fourdays later, returned my phone
back on. And my boss called theother boss is like Erica, come
on, come back. They're freakingout. Right? Because everyone's
asking Where's Erica? And Isaid, I'm not coming until you
give me the raise that I askedfor he goes, we'll give you the
raise come back. So I started anew career as a songwriter and
(18:46):
got the raise that I deserved.
Preet Banerjee (18:49):
So you were able to start this new sort of
revenue stream this new passionand you also went back to being
on air at muchmusic with therays that that you had initially
asked for. So that was certainlylike pulling teeth negotiating
the hard way. And again, a lotof people may not have the the
(19:09):
same level of
Erica Ehm (19:13):
tenacity,
Preet Banerjee (19:14):
Yeah, tenac ty to negotiate for themselves.
So So when it comes to your advie for people when they ar
in a situation where they fee, you know, I should be makin
more What do you haveike a prescription as to how to
ackle that conversation withith a
Erica Ehm (19:33):
I actually went to a therapist to understand
behavior. So the next time thatI was in a situation like that,
because I didn't like myreaction, I don't think that
fuck off is actually a usefulway of dealing with it, but it
was how a 27 year old respondedpure emotion. You need to be in
(19:56):
control of your emotions and youneed to learn How to not be
defensive. So when someone comesat you with something like that,
I'd say that's an interestingperspective. Can you tell me
where you got that informationfrom? You have to be calm. And
you have to be able to respond,even though you think that
(20:17):
person is the biggest jerk. Andyou let them talk. And you might
even say, you know, what, if youcan provide me some of that
documentation, I'm going to goaway and look at it, and I'll
come back to you.
Preet Banerjee (20:31):
Because it sounds like bullshit what he
said, like, that sounds likethat sounds like something that
he would never say to a man.
Erica Ehm (20:37):
Thank you. But I also think in life, you need to
control your emotions,especially women, and not that
women are more emotional, butthey're judged right? on how
they respond with or withouttheir emotions. So I've learned
to be a man. My I run mybusiness, like I'm a man,
(21:01):
someone brought me a mugrecently. And it says on it,
don't fuck with me. So ifsomeone comes at me with
something that is irrational, orsomething that irks me, I will
respond in a non defensive way.
I will say, I hear what you'resaying, I need to think about
that. And I'll get back to you.
(21:22):
Now, interestingly enough, CBTtherapy, explained to me that we
experienced strong emotions forabout 20 to 40 seconds, and then
it goes away. So when you're ina position where you're feeling
triggered, especially at work,but also in life, you just need
(21:42):
to walk away, be calm, walkaway. And I will guarantee you
that you'll have a clear head ina few minutes. And it's at that
point, you're going to respond.
So if you get an email that istriggering you, you know, what
the fuck are they taught, whatthe fuck, just go calm down. I'm
not gonna say anything, I'm notresponding. And then take the
(22:03):
time, and respond in a nonconfrontational way. Always. If
you're confrontational, it justgoes up, and up and up. And
suddenly you're in a war, youneed to find a way to defuse and
win. So not give in, defuse, andfind a way to win and negotiate
(22:27):
in a non defensive, open way, Ihear what you're saying.
Preet Banerjee (22:35):
It's such great advice. I know, thinking of the
times where I've let my emotionsin the heat of a moment, get the
better of my responses. Andanytime I've seen that with
people around me, you'vebasically boxed yourself into a
corner, there are very few movesyou can make once you've passed
once you've crossed the Rubicon,right. But if you can pause and
(22:57):
come back later, you can be alot more strategic. It's like,
you know, it's like anythinghindsight is 2020. But you don't
have to make a decision in themoment. And if you take the time
to defuse, and then come backwhen you've had time to think
about it, it is so much moreeffective. For people.
Erica Ehm (23:16):
We're obsessed with returning emails, or when the
phone rings answering it. Don'tanswer the phone. You're in
control. We are in control ofour own lives. Your boss is not
in control of you, your coworkers are not in control of
you. You control it. Be smart,as to how you speak to people.
(23:43):
And how you communicate. Besmart. use technology wisely use
social media wisely. It is it'sin your it's in your hands to
control.
Preet Banerjee (23:55):
As you mentioned, there was this
period, I think was 94 is whenyou left much music and you
really were a renaissance woman.
You You wrote songs plays, youwrote books, children's books.
As you mentioned, you won abunch of awards, Canadian
Country Music Awards. So Kansasjunos. You were in Robocop? Yes,
(24:17):
it was. So you acted for a whileand you were in Robocop the TV
series? Not not the movie, butthat was pretty was that shot in
Toronto, or did you have to go?
I did
Erica Ehm (24:30):
it while I was working. I think it was working
at much at the same time or isright around the same time.
Preet Banerjee (24:35):
Yeah. Right. And so there's a bunch of different
things that you're you had yourhands in. But then I want to
talk about your next sort ofreinvention into being a sort
of, you know, full fledgedentrepreneur and sort of putting
everything together and alsodefining I think next period of
your life and that is YummyMummy. club.ca. So that was I
(24:59):
think 15 years ago now 2006.
Yep. So when when did you havethe idea to start this business
and why?
Erica Ehm (25:11):
Well, the difference between what I was doing in
those earlier years after muchwas I was a contractor. I was an
independent contractor that wassort of for hire. Some of it was
entrepreneurial, some of it, Iwas being hired, but I really
wasn't in control of my destiny.
Then I had kids and my worldexploded, and I had a really
hard time adjusting tomotherhood, because I'm typing.
(25:33):
I like to make things happen andkids don't listen. You know, you
say, buddy, go to bed. Andthey're like, no, buddy, I got
to do work. They're like, no. Soit was it was really hard for me
to adjust. And, but I knew thatwhat turns me on, is listening
(25:53):
to my passion. And my family hadbecome my passion, trying to
understand parenting, because Ihad no fucking clue what I was
doing. I didn't have a lot offriends who had kids, most of my
friends were working women. Andthey hadn't gone down that road.
Even though when I had my kids,I was old. I was 39 when I had
my son. So I was like, out of mydepth. So I started working at I
(26:17):
looked for jobs. First of all,no one wanted to hire me because
I was fat and old. 100% tellingyou, my career was over. So
that's number one. I was dead.
No one wanted to hear from me,no one wanted to talk to me. So
I looked on, like the media jobsearch. And I found the job of
(26:40):
reporter or writer for what's upkids magazine. And they hired
me. So my job was to writestories about issues relating to
parenting. And I loved it.
Because I was basically learningabout what I was most interested
in, much like music. And thereason why I left much music was
because I got tired of it. I wasnow really immersed in this
(27:02):
world. And I wanted to find waysto tell more stories. But nobody
was talking about the reality ofbeing a mother today. Which is,
it's shitty, it's hard.
Everybody says, Oh, I'm doinggreat. Like, well, why am I
struggling? Why is this so hard?
I started, I came up with thisidea for a TV show called Yummy
(27:26):
Mummy. And I was at an event.
And a woman came up to me andgave me her business card. It
was all scrunched up withsomeone else's name written on
it. And she said, call me. And Iwas like, Yeah, you're 12.
Anyway, I did call her becauseyou always go after every
opportunity. And sure enough,she was sourcing ideas for a
(27:50):
production company. And Ipitched them the idea of Yummy
Mummy which would, you know,celebrate and commiserate the
roller coaster of modernmotherhood, and they bought it.
So I suddenly had a TV series.
It was broadcast on life networkand syndicated on Discovery
health around the world. I wrotethe show, I hosted it, I co
produced it. And the show wascool, because it was kind of
(28:13):
shot against a green screen. Soit was like peewee Herman's
Playhouse combined with a, likea lifestyle show. And you can
still buy episodes for 99 centson amazon prime. How crazy is
that? So that was 2003 to 2005.
And when the show ended, Iwasn't down I was like, Oh my
god, I am building communityhere. And so I started this
(28:36):
little tiny website called yummymommy club.ca, which was sort of
supposed to be a continuation ofthe TV show. But there was no
business model for this. So Iwas doing it really, because I
needed friends. I was trying tofind a community of like minded
women.
So I built about 300 pages, andit started to pick up momentum.
(28:57):
Remember, there were there werebarely mommy blogs at the time.
This was a head of mommy blogs.
And PR people started to come tome and saying, you know, hey, if
you write about us, we'll giveyou a mop. Right? And I'd like
fuck off. And so I came up withthis one line, which is what's
your budget? They're like, What?
(29:17):
What's your budget? I'm workinghere. If you'd like me to
connect to your product withmoms, what's your budget, and
that was when the light wentoff. And I was like, I can work
with brands to tell theirstories in meaningful ways. And
connect them to my audience,started hiring people, it
started to grow. And we becamethe leaders in branded content.
(29:43):
Back in 2007 was when my firstbig project with Fuji films
launched where we sent out a wehad created a integrated
contest. We were on Twitter, westarted spreading the
information on Twitter. We had anewsletters. out, we had a whole
bunch of articles about how totake photographs of your family
(30:06):
brought to you by Fuji. That wasthrough Apex PR, I'll never
forget it, because when yourfirst project is sold it, you
know, you build it, and thenthey will come. And I was able
to use a case study to showother brands, that mom's loved
what we were doing, and thatthey were, they were passing it
on, and it became semi viral,etc. And so my business was was
(30:30):
born. And then we we launched Mand CO, which is an agency
because people thought that wewere just a website. But no, we
are, in fact, an agency thatconnects brands with moms. And
then I had 500 families, eachwho had mom blogs or Twitter
accounts, and they started toextend and amplify our programs.
(30:52):
And they were way before therewas such a thing as influencers.
So I I basically started thefirst influencer agency back in
2008.
Preet Banerjee (31:02):
Wow. Yeah, I mean, it's it's strange, you
know, 2008 doesn't sound like itwas such a long time ago. But
in, in the in the space of timethat influencer marketing has
grown, it seems like that's onlybeen around for like five years.
But you again, we'retrailblazing You know, this,
(31:23):
this whole industry. So I wantto talk a little bit about some
of the work that mn co has donebecause I was intrigued by a
report that you put out calledthe current COVID state of mom.
And, you know, for for any ofthe brands who are out there
listening, you know, this, thissurvey, breaks down what
(31:43):
Canadian moms are doing, howthey're handling the pandemic.
And I think it makes sense tocontinue our theme of
reinvention, this time, we'refocused on the brand
perspective, this should not benews to them. But things have
changed. consumer preferenceshave changed dramatically in the
last year. Things like just lookat Fitness peloton bikes Who
would have thought a $3,000stationary bike that you have to
(32:05):
pay a monthly subscription forwhat would blow up the lobby, my
condo is basically an Amazonwarehouse, everyone has shifted
to so much more onlineconsumption. So, you know,
brands that thrive are the onesthat can figure out the shifts,
and you have done research tosee what what is the state of
(32:29):
mind for for moms? And howshould brands be thinking about
what they're doing in light ofthis new information? So what if
you could talk to us a littlebit about the survey and sort of
the big findings that you weresurprised by?
Erica Ehm (32:45):
Well, I would have to say that I wasn't that surprised
because my agency is run by momsfor moms. Right? So we're all
living it what it did, it justconfirmed that I'm not alone,
that what I'm going throughother moms all over the country
are going through 700 momsreplied, and the results really
(33:06):
spoke loudly. 85% of or sorry,78% of moms said that they're
worried about their families,mental and physical health. 42%
of moms say they're not havingsex at all. I think it's seven,
I don't have the numbers writtenfor him. But something like 73%
of moms say that they have verylittle me time alone time. So
Preet Banerjee (33:32):
I imagine that was not I mean, they probably
have very little Meantime, prepandemic, but I imagine that the
stress and the additional timemanagement required to
coordinate, you know, schoolclosures, daycare closures, meal
prep, all that stuff has beenadded to the plate with the
(33:52):
extra challenge of timemanagement, but extra burden as
well, because we see that thatwomen and moms take on more of
the burden with what's happenedwith the pandemic. In fact,
there was just the December jobsreport out of the US 140,000
jobs lost. And it was theNational Women's Law Center that
said all of them belong towomen.
Erica Ehm (34:14):
Yeah. Well, it's interesting that only 30% of
women said that they're worriedabout paying their bills, or
that it's their top concern. Ithink that number is going to
rise in the coming weeks andmonths, as more and more
businesses continue to stayclosed. And also women are
giving up their jobs now to stayhome because their kids are not
(34:37):
going to school, right? Someonehas to be home. So it's a really
challenging time for women. Theconsumption of junk food and
wine is up 70% amongst women, sowhich means their weight is
going to be going up, which isnot a surprise the pandemic
(34:58):
weight that I'm as you I can seeyou're looking at me now I'm, I
look jolly. Now.
Preet Banerjee (35:05):
You look beautiful.
Erica Ehm (35:06):
Thank you. I am, you know also dealing with all the
ramifications of being lockeddown with my family, women are
saying that the stress ofpreparing meals every day is
rising. I think it's 60% of momssay that they're more stressed
at mealtime that they're morechallenged to find what they're
(35:26):
going to prepare for theirfamilies like these are huge
daily stresses that moms arecontending with. They're also
eating out significantly less.
So in terms of CPG companies.
Hello, moms need you right now.
Right. And they need recipes.
They need ways to prepare mealsthat are exciting, fast and
(35:50):
inexpensive. So those are thekinds of things that and also
junk food. They're looking forjunk food, and if you're in the
wine or alcohol business, momsare looking for some fun. And I
think that fun is, you know,okay, let me let me just sort of
go back a little bit. One of thereasons why we prepared this
(36:11):
survey is that a lot of brandsare afraid to market right now.
Because they don't want tomisstep. They don't want to, you
know, say something that willland the wrong way. Because moms
are really in a good state ofmind right now. So that
hopefully, this survey, in fact,people can get it, they can,
they can just email me or go toM and CO and e h m co.com. And
(36:37):
they can just go there, andwe'll send you the full report.
Because I think it's reallyimportant, you know, on behalf
of all women, that I don't wantbrands to alienate their
audience, or their consumers byreally not understanding the
stress and anxiety that they'redealing with. And also not
understanding the opportunitiesthat are there for them to
(37:01):
market to moms, they may notunderstand that women are
looking for new ways ofpreparing meals, or we asked
them if you could, if a geniecould offer you and one wish,
what would it be? And themajority of people said house
cleaner, meal prep, and a tutorfor their kids. So Boom, boom,
(37:23):
boom. If you're working in thoseindustries, there are
opportunities, how to clean yourhouse more easily, you know, all
the meal companies. Hello, momsare looking for help right now.
And if you are in the world oftutoring, or helping to educate
kids in any way with any productor service strike now.
Preet Banerjee (37:46):
Yeah, it sounds like if you're looking for a
campaign, and you wantintelligence on what that
campaign should be focused on,visit to Erica's company's
website. So a lot of people maynot know the spelling of your
last name, right? It's just kindof like share, you know, it's
just people know the name isEric M. It's not m it's eh M.
And so the website for thecompany, if they want to get
(38:08):
that report is
Erica Ehm (38:10):
ehmco.com
Preet Banerjee (38:13):
I want to talk about a few other things. And I
know that, you know, a lot of myfriends will have questions
about some of the highlights atmuchmusic. There is one thing I
want to ask you about. So I knowa lot of people talk about that
that famous Kurt Cobaininterview. And it was conducted,
(38:35):
I think it was nine monthsbefore his death. You You wrote
a blog post that talked aboutkind of like the behind the
scenes, which I thought was suchan interesting read. And I
recommend people go there andthey can find that information
on your personal blog, I think.
Yeah. And you mentioned that atthe time you wrote the blog
piece at the video of thatinterview had gone viral with 5
million views. Do you know howmany people have have viewed
(38:57):
that now? Because it'ssignificantly higher than that?
How many? It's about to hit 10million views. Wow. Yeah. And
which
Erica Ehm (39:08):
I had no idea. At that time. That would be the
interview that defined mycareer.
Preet Banerjee (39:14):
Right. Right.
Well, I think what was sodifferent about that interview
is how disarming you were?
Because you're your firstquestion, the biggest rock star
in the world. First question isabout books. And immediately you
see that that interview is goingto take a different path than
(39:35):
what was in his mind, I think.
Erica Ehm (39:38):
So I do a book showing much where talk to do
what a bookshelf, talk todifferent people about favorite
books that you've read and howhas inspired you or what you
learn from it or something likethat. So do you have a book that
that comes back to you amongstone?
Kurt Cobain (39:55):
Yeah, well, I've read perfume by Patrick Siskin
About 10 times in my life, and Ican't stop reading it, it's like
something that's just stationaryin my pocket all the time. It
just doesn't leave me. And everytime I'm bored, like I'm on a
airplane or something, I read itover and over again. Because I'm
a hypochondriac, and it justaffects me makes me want to cut
(40:16):
my nose off.
Erica Ehm (40:17):
What's the book about,
Unknown (40:18):
it's about this perfume apprentice in in France, at the
turn of the century, and he, heis disgusted, basically, with
all humans, and he just can'tget away from humans. So he goes
on this track, this walk ofdeath, where he just, he goes
into the rural areas wherethere's, you know, woods all
(40:38):
over the place in the smallvillages. And he only travels by
night. And he, he just everytime he smells human, like a
fire from afar off way, andhe'll just get really disgusted
and hide, and he just tries tostay away from people can relate
to
Erica Ehm (40:56):
ever use what you read in any of your songs.
Kurt Cobain (40:59):
As a matter of fact, I use that very story in
scentless apprentice.
Preet Banerjee (41:03):
Yeah. And it was a compelling interview to watch
if people haven't seen it. AndI've seen it, you know, back in
the day, and I saw when youposted your blog post, and I'm
probably gonna watch it again,because it's so engaging. And I
imagine was for him as well. Andyou, you talked about, you know,
your thoughts during theinterviews, like, Oh, you know,
I thought it was gonna be thisbig ego, and he's a sweetheart.
(41:26):
So what was your most memorablein a bad way? interview that you
had with an artist or band?
Erica Ehm (41:34):
I talked a lot about this. I really didn't like my
interview with or not, I didn'tlike my interview. I didn't like
the Red Hot Chili Peppers.
Really? Why? Well, when I wasinterviewing them, before the
interview, we warn them, youknow, this is live. So try to
keep your swearing to a minimum,you know, it's rock and roll and
(41:55):
everything. But we have alicense from the CRTC. And
you're not really supposed toswear. And I remember, this was
30 odd years ago. So a lot haschanged in the world of
broadcast. And for those who areyounger than me, you may not
know that you weren't allowed toswear on television ever. Right?
It was not okay. You could uselose your license. So when I was
(42:17):
interviewing them, they startedto swear in the middle of it.
And when we went to break,because it was a long interview,
when we went to break, I said tothem, guys, we can lose our
license, or something to thateffect. Please don't swear.
Sorry. They were so nice. Sorry.
(42:39):
Sorry. We won't do that again.
Like we get it. We get it. We goback on. And they went right
back into. Yeah, I'm a rockstar, right. And so I was like,
Fuck you. I didn't say that. Butin my mind, I was like, Fuck
you. This interview is over. Andyou could see they're like,
what? No. And the reason why Ialways cite this as one of my
(43:04):
least favorite, because otherpeople have been less
forthcoming and they've beenboring or whatever. But they
were fake. Who is the realperson? They were, I saw two
different people. I saw a groupof people who were in front of a
camera. And then I saw a groupof people who were very
different when the camera wasn'ton, I don't know, which was the
(43:27):
real one. But I didn't like thefact that they were absolutely
inauthentic and they were fullof shit. And I can't abide
people who are full of shit.
Preet Banerjee (43:43):
That's a that's that's an awful story to hear. I
can only imagine what it wouldbeen like in the moment because
I have limited experience withyou know, broadcasting live. ie,
was asked to do some fill inradio hosting on Newstalk 1010
for Jim Richards so I'll do likea week here or there when he's
(44:05):
on vacation. And it's a nervewracking thing. And you know, I
benefit from the there's a sevensecond delay or whatever the the
delay is, and a producer is incontrol of that. But when you
have someone who you know,you've dedicated a block of time
live in a schedule, and they'vedecided to completely be
(44:27):
disrespectful. And then you'vegot to run out that clock,
right? There's only so much tapdancing you can do that is
awful. Like just I sympathizewith that like that just makes
my toes curl.
Erica Ehm (44:40):
I think first of all, people who are watching are
rooting for the host Yeah, to bein control and to own it. People
I think are very uncomfortablewhen the host feels powerless.
That's probably why you knowwhen we were watching the
debates, With the presidents,the future presidents, and
(45:03):
everybody was mortified at howTrump overrode the moderators.
And everyone was yelling at themoderate moderators, you need to
do more. That's our job, as thehost is to literally control the
conversation. Now, that doesn'tmean control it in the sense of
overtake it, or be overbearing.
For example, when I interviewedDuran Duran, it was complete
(45:26):
chaos. But I, me and the leadsinger, Simon, the bomb, we
would have these sort of, hewould look at me while he was
spraying me with water or aboutto throw cake at me or
something, to make sure that Iwas okay. And I looked at him,
and I sort of nodded and smiled.
(45:48):
And so it was not out ofcontrol. I was fine.
Preet Banerjee (45:51):
Yeah, I trust.
Erica Ehm (45:52):
That's right. And I knew this is good TV. Yeah,
yeah. Which is different than itbeing out of control, and that
the guest is doing, what thehost doesn't want, or what the
station doesn't want. And so I'mvery comfortable in any
circumstances to say, that's it.
You're I think being a parent,it probably helps now, you're
(46:13):
done. Stop.
Preet Banerjee (46:19):
Alright, well, we'll leave it there. But as you
know, every guest on thispodcast gets the last minute or
two, to provide a commercial oranything that they want to
promote. Now, the challenge withyou is you've got a lot of
things, a lot of irons in thefire, but the floor is yours.
Who do you want to send yourmessage to your commercial to?
(46:40):
And where do you want to directthem?
Erica Ehm (46:42):
Well, I think it's less of a commercial and a
reminder about the reinventionof the vj podcast that I
launched. Recently, during thelockdown, I was able to contact
a whole bunch of people who usedto work at muchmusic. And do a
really personal reconnectionwith each of them. Now, some of
(47:05):
them I'd never met before. But alot of the people I sort of grew
up with. So to go back to thattime to discover how they landed
their jobs that much what theirfeelings were and memories were
that may have been different orthe same as me, which validated
a lot of my insecurities andissues that I had from back in
(47:28):
the day like oh, you to be doand then to follow their lives
after to see if much wasactually helpful or a hindrance
in moving forward in theircareers to date. Because all of
us I mean, have, it's almost 20to 30 years for most people have
had interesting lives after thefact. So finding that the
(47:52):
reaction has been prettyamazing, a lot of emotion from
people listening, because ittriggers a lot of the stuff from
their childhoods or their teenyears. And you really get to
learn people learn what makespeople tick. And also, there was
a secondary, which to me wasalmost more important piece of
(48:12):
reinvention where we all get tolearn what it takes to reinvent,
because as you said at the topof our conversation, many of us
are going through really toughtimes right now and being forced
to reinvent in a variety ofways. And hopefully this show
will give you some littleinsights. how other people have
(48:32):
managed to pivot their careers.
Preet Banerjee (48:35):
Yeah, no, I think it is worthwhile
listening. And again, the titleis perfect reinvention of the vj
because this this genre, youguys were the trailblazers, and
then that format completelychanged, right? It used to be
you know, music videos on music,television stations. Now it's
not right, you you it istransformed how we consume that
(49:00):
music, different mediums andwhat have you. But everyone has
had to face who's been a gueston that podcast, a reinvention
of themselves. Some of it wasforced, some of it was, you
know, more endogenously decidedto reinvent themselves, even
though they didn't necessarilyneed to, but the lessons there
are applicable to a wide varietyof people, not just people in,
(49:23):
you know, Music Entertainment.
Erica Ehm (49:25):
Well, what's interesting is if you consider
why a lot of people eventuallyleft is there was a shift in
technology, right? Because asmuch music evolved, so did
YouTube, and the value that muchmusic brought diminished as
(49:46):
people became intrigued by thisnew platform where they had
videos on demand. But I thinkwhat happened is they got those
videos on demand, but realizedthat what much music really
brought was the curation Havethose videos. And so I think
people are struggling right nowto find where do I get my ghost
(50:07):
stories? Where do I get thebackground? That's I think,
where a lot of people aremissing those days of much
music. It's the personality andthe insights and the knowledge
from the hosts that makes thatmake those videos even better.
Preet Banerjee (50:24):
It's so it's such a good point. You know, one
of the things that I've noticedwhen I'm consuming news is you
can get news on demand, anytime,Twitter, Facebook, whatever. So
for the nightly broadcast, Idon't find the value as much as
what happened. But where I findthe real value is, tell me why
this is important when they dothe panels that talk about, you
(50:47):
know, politics or whatever. Andthey tell you Okay, so this
happened. But here's thebackstory, you don't know. And
this is why it's so relevant. Sothat analysis, the curation, in
this case of news to helpdistill What does this mean to
you why is important, is changedthe way I consume news based on
before, which was, you know,again, you didn't have these
(51:07):
competing sources of news. Soyou kind of come in knowing the
headlines, but now you want toknow, well, tell me about what
happens beneath those headlines.
Erica Ehm (51:17):
What what's interesting, though, is that
curation now, is also slanted.
Yeah, more so than before? Yes,those large companies each seem
to have an agenda or point ofview. So we are now having to
understand this panel is onwhich network which already has
(51:38):
sort of stated their affinity toa certain point of view. And I
think back in the day, it wasfar more non partisan. Right.
Preet Banerjee (51:51):
Yeah, that's a great point, because there are
panels where it's not balanced.
The value in having, you know, abalanced presentation of ideas
is important. This could be awhole other podcast. But well,
like I said, well, we'll leaveit there. I want to thank you so
much for taking time out of yourbusy schedule. To to join me on
(52:12):
the podcast. It's been a realpleasure.
Erica Ehm (52:18):
Thank you so much for having me. I could talk forever
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.