July 1, 2025 • 16 mins
What if the space between who you were and who you’re becoming isn’t a problem to fix—but a place to grow?
In this heart-level conversation, we dive into identity, perimenopause, parenting tweens/teens, and the holy tension of the "middle." It’s raw, real, and redefining.
For every mom navigating grief, growth, or just straight-up chaos… you’re not alone. This messy middle is making you.
Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!
Ready for more real talk and soulful support? Head to motherhoodandthemessy.com for resources, freebies, and our latest episodes.
Explore the Resource Vault - packed with free tools and more, to support you in every season of motherhood: Click Here
Let’s connect on Instagram:
@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle
Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review-it helps other moms find our virtual village.
This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Robin (00:00):
What if the middle, even when it's messy and let's be
real, it usually is, isn't justsomething to survive, but
actually a sacred space wherereal growth happens.
Today, we're diving into themessy middle.
That wild and wonderful stretchbetween who you were and who
you're becoming.
(00:20):
It's where the good stuff lives,even if it's wrapped in chaos
and served with a side ofself-doubt.
Welcome to Motherhood and theMessy Middle, where two moms
proudly planted right in thethick of it.
We're shining the light on themiracles inside the mess so you
can feel a little less alone andmaybe even just a little less
messy.
(00:45):
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
(01:06):
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
(01:28):
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
Okay, Nicole.
Now this title, the MessyMiddle, it sure is catchy.
Mm-hmm.
I love some alliteration, butit's also deeply personal and
(01:49):
multi-layered for both of us.
Yeah.
So honestly, I'd argue thatleaning into and naming our own
messy middles, that's exactlywhat turned us from internet
acquaintances into real dealfriends.
Yeah.
And still, I mean, every singletime that we talk, it blows my
mind that we haven't met inperson yet and that we are on
(02:10):
these like separate, we're inseparate time zones and yet have
so many similarities with this.
Not only motherhood, but alsoand the messy middle.
Yeah.
What does that messy middle looklike in your life right now?
Nicole (02:26):
It looks like, lots of emotions.
It looks like embracing reallyuncomfortable conversations.
It looks like unmetexpectations.
It looks like embracing thegrief that.
Is that my life and things don'talways look like what I thought
or hoped or expected, andgrieving that, but also
celebrating what they do looklike.
(02:49):
It looks like lots of hormones,which Robin is always so
gracious in walking me throughand helping me find balance.
And it looks like exploring whoI am in this new season of
motherhood as my kids areadolescents and teenagers and
young adults, and who am I nowthat they're kind of growing
into really who they are?
(03:10):
What does that mean for me?
Robin (03:11):
Yeah.
When you just said hormones, Iliterally started having a hot
flash, so we're gonna increasethe fan speed here.
And, and I also was thinking ofthe hormones with the children
because Yes, that is, that is anavigating messy beautiful, yes.
One of my favorite phrases islike, just a beautiful disaster,
(03:33):
right?
And yes.
And messy middle.
You know, as I've looked at it,is that there are so many
different ways to look at amessy middle, and it really is.
The process of growing.
Nicole (03:47):
Mm,
Robin (03:47):
yeah.
Nicole (03:48):
That's good.
Robin (03:49):
You know, my, my professional history was as a
high school math teacher, and Idon't know if I ever told you
this, but I worked at, um, anart and Si um, well at an art
and science school at one point,and then an arts integration
magnet at another point.
And I actually went to theKennedy Center for a training to
help bring back professionaldevelopment on arts integration
for our school.
That's so
Nicole (04:09):
cool.
And it's really, it doesn'tsurprise me at all, I feel like,
but that's so helpful since youknow me and I'm very,
Robin (04:14):
I'm very creative, but I never really embraced that side
of myself.
'cause I just thought of myselfas like the math person.
Right?
Yeah.
And we put people kind of inthose boxes.
Mm-hmm.
But one of the most profoundthings from that training that
I've transferred into my life isthat when you are creating art
in whatever form that would be,and I would.
(04:34):
Beg to to say that motherhood isan art in and of itself.
Sure.
Raising children, friendships.
Nicole (04:40):
Yeah.
Robin (04:40):
It's not the final product that is the true beauty.
It's the entire process ofgetting there.
Mm-hmm.
And that's that messy middlewhen you're mm-hmm.
Growing and developing andcreating the, you know, little
tweaks along the way in order totend to what is.
Nicole (05:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I would absolutely agreewith that.
Robin (05:05):
But what I have struggled with and been challenged by,
especially as someone who is,has had the glass shattered on
realizing that I am super neurospicy neurodivergent, um, is the
loss of like, where am I going?
What am I doing?
(05:26):
Who am I in the midst of all ofthis?
Nicole (05:28):
Right?
Robin (05:29):
So friend.
Spit me some truth here.
I'm in the messy middle rightnow, especially as we're
recording.
This is like, it's an unpopularopinion, especially here in
Minnesota where I live, but I donot like summer because my neuro
spice really likes the setschedule, right?
I like things defined for me tobe able to work within those
(05:51):
boundaries, and I'm just feelinga little bit lost.
Yeah.
So help me out.
What am I, how am I supposed tosurvive this messy middle right
now?
Nicole (05:59):
You have to create your own boundaries, which I feel
like you do really well.
Robin (06:05):
Sometimes.
A little too rigidly, but okay.
Nicole (06:07):
Yeah.
I feel like you do, I feel likeyou create a good outline, I
think the first step, isacknowledging that you don't,
that you need a schedule.
There's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with, andagain, as moms, we wanna be the
fixtures of everything.
And sometimes that starts withacknowledging what our needs are
first, because we are the heartof the home.
So acknowledging that, I dobetter with the schedule is the
(06:28):
first step in embracing thatmessy middle.
And I also maybe even taking astep farther is what if the
first step is embracing themessiness?
Mm-hmm.
Like that it doesn't need tolook a certain way or evaluating
the root of what is like what?
(06:48):
What is causing the struggle?
The root is that you do betterwith a schedule.
So other people, it might bethat the root is that do they,
are they expecting their summerto look a certain way because
they're judging it against asocietal norm or how they were
raised.
And then really finding the rootof what actually works for your
household, for your home, foryou.
Acknowledging that and thenembracing that and creating
(07:11):
structure around.
What works best for you as aperson and your family, as their
own individuals and your familyunit?
I think that's probably likewhere you really start to.
Just embracing the mess.
'cause there's, get rid of thepicture.
Perfect.
It doesn't exist.
We're all in this boat together.
And then that helps you feelsecure in your mess.
Robin (07:34):
Well, and when you speak like that to me on that topic, I
see just the connections betweenso many different pieces, but
especially around.
As a woman in midlife goingthrough perimenopause and
menopause.
Mm-hmm.
And as you know, I went throughperimenopause in my late
thirties, which is earlier thanmost, and now at 42.
(07:56):
I've been in menopauseofficially for for two years
and.
The, one of the reasons that I'mignited to do the work that I do
is because I did not know that Iwas going through perimenopause
right when I was going throughit.
Right.
So there were so many piecesthat I was losing my ever love
and mind.
(08:16):
Mm-hmm.
And did not know why all ofthese different symptoms were
emerging.
Right.
And there might be some othervarying factors that contributed
because each of us has our ownhealth journey.
Right.
But the power in awareness Yes.
In being able to name andnormalize mm-hmm.
Whatever middle that you are in,and whatever mess that it is.
Nicole (08:38):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (08:38):
When we are denying or we are unconscious, we can't tend
to what actually needs to helpus feel.
Absolutely.
Really, it's,
Nicole (08:46):
it's empowered, you know, and Right.
Yeah.
I think we also,
Robin (08:50):
when you were just go ahead.
Nicole (08:51):
We think messy instantly, we think negative.
And I think that we're trying tochange that It's messy, but that
doesn't have to be a negative.
It doesn't have to be somethingthat's meant to be tended.
Not, um, like cleaned up, Iguess is what I'm trying to say.
But like in you're saying liketending to it and honoring and
naming that so you can empoweryourself, shifts that dynamic in
(09:13):
a more positive direction.
Robin (09:15):
I love that because it is that work around mindset with
not only mm-hmm.
A growth mindset, but abundancewhere you shift the energy based
off of what it is that you'rebringing to that word, that
dynamic.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, you and I bothidentify as being
neurodivergent.
Right.
And there, up until recently.
(09:40):
I would say a lot of thenarrative of our society was
that that was negative.
Nicole (09:44):
Right.
Robin (09:45):
Having a DHD, having dyslexia, having, you know,
autism mm-hmm.
That those are things that, wellthey're not typical, you know,
they're not even the word.
Um, the word normal, I don'tlike that word.
Nicole (10:00):
No, we don't use that word in our house.
Robin (10:02):
We use
Nicole (10:02):
typical and we use neurotypical or like we don't
use normal.
Or regular or how, you know,what I
Robin (10:08):
shifted it into with my daughter, um, is average.
I'm like, no, you are notaverage honey.
Right, right.
You are very different thanaverage.
Yeah.
And that is okay because we needthe fullest exp express.
And maybe that's part of themath side of me too.
You know, we need the fullestexpression of everyone in order
to find what, you know, we cankind of define in order to be
(10:30):
able to make sense of it.
But when we are able to stepinto our fullest selves and.
Let go of our expectation andreally embrace the power that is
in, like I said, that process,right?
Mm-hmm.
Not the final product of gettingout of what this is right now.
It's embracing this journey ofwhatever that mess is,
Nicole (10:52):
right?
Robin (10:52):
To be able to feel.
Empowered, like we have somecontrol.
Nicole (10:58):
Right?
Robin (10:58):
That's the delicate space of where I think it almost would
be appropriate to think of it asa negative connotation if you
are feeling powerless.
Right?
If you are not sure, like forme, with perimenopause I did
didn't.
It did, I did not know, right.
Why all of these things werehappening and I was just trying
to survive and maybe piecetogether a full night of sleep
(11:20):
and trying to do all of thesethings.
Mm-hmm.
Where when we.
Have the ability to be aware ofwhat is the mess, define it.
That's when we can startnavigating how we want to
respond.
Nicole (11:33):
Right.
Robin (11:33):
And sometimes responding is a, is a really great therapy
and recovery term that Ipractice all the time.
And it's radical acceptance.
Nicole (11:43):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Radically
Robin (11:44):
accepting.
Nicole (11:44):
Yeah.
What
Robin (11:45):
is, even when it's uncomfortable or it is
unexpected from what we thoughtwas going to be.
Nicole (11:52):
You do such a good job with that.
In the work that you do, in themindset shifts and the energy
and realigning and usingvocabulary that is empowering
for meeting women where they'reat,.
I am repeating myself, but thevocabulary to move forward and
to see a different direction andsee hope of, like you've said,
(12:13):
when we can name it like it'sperimenopause, there's something
in that makes us feel okay I cansee it, I can identify it, and I
can relate to what, then it'seasier to identify and relate to
other people.
And again, feeling seen andconnected creates this
beautiful, powerful experience.
This is not necessarily thegreatest example in the world,
(12:34):
but, I have dyslexia and one ofmy middle son has dyslexia and
dysgraphia and there wassomething on the news about, the
California governor.
I don't remember his name.
Newsom.
Newsom?
Yep.
Okay.
And he said something aboutbeing dyslexic.
I don't know anything aboutNewsom, I don't have an opinion
about him, but he said that hewas dyslexic and I told that to
(12:54):
my son and you could, it waslike someone in power who has is
successful.
Is admitting that he has thisthing that my son sees as such a
negative thing and it'ssomething hard.
He has to work much harder thanan average student, and he has
to receive accommodations thatmake him feel different than
other students.
In order for him to have thesame starting place and he saw
(13:16):
this person, and so there issomething powerful and.
Talking about where we're at inthe messy middle to give someone
else some encouragement forwhat's ahead or what's possible,
because like just to see myson's connection was really
powerful.
He also doesn't know anythingabout this governor, but just
knowing he was successful and hehas the same thing he did, it
(13:37):
was like, oh, okay.
Robin (13:40):
Yeah, that is powerful.
You know, when I teach around,uh, helping women to transform
their energy, that first step isawareness.
Mm-hmm.
And then all the steps inbetween are about experimenting
with ways to help grow yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And yet the most uncomfortablespot is when you are aware and
yet.
You maybe don't have the toolsyet to be able to make the
(14:03):
changes to the place that youwant to be, and that's where it
requires inner fitness, whereyou can.
Identify those thoughts.
And there are practices likewith meditation and mindfulness
Nicole (14:15):
mm-hmm.
Robin (14:15):
Where it helps train your brain.
It's just like a, a physicalbicep curl for your brain so
that you can create space to beable to identify what it is, but
you can't, I.
Identify and make those shifts,like you said, until it's, until
it's normalized.
And that's why we're meant to betogether and we're meant to have
courageous conversations aroundall sorts of different topics.
(14:37):
And that's why we are here, yay.
For each other and for buildingthis virtual village.
Mm-hmm.
So let's wrap up this episode byreminding you that there's
nothing wrong with being in themessy middle.
It's not a flaw.
It's not a failure, it's just asign that you're human and
(14:57):
you're doing the dang thing.
You're in the process of.
Becoming that next piece.
So if today's episode hit home,we ask that you pass it along to
someone else who might be stuckin their own in between.
Mm-hmm.
And let's remind each other withcompassion that every single
(15:19):
season.
Matters.
Every chapter counts.
And yes, even the messy middleis sacred ground.
So in a way, this podcast, we'rein our own messy middle because
we've started somethingbeautiful, but we need your help
to grow this virtual village.
So if this space is speaking toyou, please scroll down and
(15:41):
leave a rating and a review,especially during this messy
middle and the launch, those fewseconds of love, it makes a huge
difference in helping us toactualize our mission of helping
other moms to feel seen in allof it.
We are so grateful that you arehere.
Not just as a listener, but aspart of this honest, truly holy
(16:06):
and human space between thebefore and the becoming, which
is motherhood and the messymiddle until next time, sending
so much love.
Nicole (16:18):
Bye guys.
before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
(16:38):
So take what you need, leave therest.
You never know when you're gonnaneed it.
Or when your group chat mightthank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
virtual village.
What if the middle, even when it's messy and let's be
real, it usually is, isn't justsomething to survive, but
actually a sacred space wherereal growth happens.
Today, we're diving into themessy middle.
That wild and wonderful stretchbetween who you were and who
you're becoming.
(00:20):
It's where the good stuff lives,even if it's wrapped in chaos
and served with a side ofself-doubt.
Welcome to Motherhood and theMessy Middle, where two moms
proudly planted right in thethick of it.
We're shining the light on themiracles inside the mess so you
can feel a little less alone andmaybe even just a little less
messy.
(00:45):
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
(01:06):
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
(01:28):
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
Okay, Nicole.
Now this title, the MessyMiddle, it sure is catchy.
Mm-hmm.
I love some alliteration, butit's also deeply personal and
(01:49):
multi-layered for both of us.
Yeah.
So honestly, I'd argue thatleaning into and naming our own
messy middles, that's exactlywhat turned us from internet
acquaintances into real dealfriends.
Yeah.
And still, I mean, every singletime that we talk, it blows my
mind that we haven't met inperson yet and that we are on
(02:10):
these like separate, we're inseparate time zones and yet have
so many similarities with this.
Not only motherhood, but alsoand the messy middle.
Yeah.
What does that messy middle looklike in your life right now?
Nicole (02:26):
It looks like, lots of emotions.
It looks like embracing reallyuncomfortable conversations.
It looks like unmetexpectations.
It looks like embracing thegrief that.
Is that my life and things don'talways look like what I thought
or hoped or expected, andgrieving that, but also
celebrating what they do looklike.
(02:49):
It looks like lots of hormones,which Robin is always so
gracious in walking me throughand helping me find balance.
And it looks like exploring whoI am in this new season of
motherhood as my kids areadolescents and teenagers and
young adults, and who am I nowthat they're kind of growing
into really who they are?
(03:10):
What does that mean for me?
Robin (03:11):
Yeah.
When you just said hormones, Iliterally started having a hot
flash, so we're gonna increasethe fan speed here.
And, and I also was thinking ofthe hormones with the children
because Yes, that is, that is anavigating messy beautiful, yes.
One of my favorite phrases islike, just a beautiful disaster,
(03:33):
right?
And yes.
And messy middle.
You know, as I've looked at it,is that there are so many
different ways to look at amessy middle, and it really is.
The process of growing.
Nicole (03:47):
Mm,
Robin (03:47):
yeah.
Nicole (03:48):
That's good.
Robin (03:49):
You know, my, my professional history was as a
high school math teacher, and Idon't know if I ever told you
this, but I worked at, um, anart and Si um, well at an art
and science school at one point,and then an arts integration
magnet at another point.
And I actually went to theKennedy Center for a training to
help bring back professionaldevelopment on arts integration
for our school.
That's so
Nicole (04:09):
cool.
And it's really, it doesn'tsurprise me at all, I feel like,
but that's so helpful since youknow me and I'm very,
Robin (04:14):
I'm very creative, but I never really embraced that side
of myself.
'cause I just thought of myselfas like the math person.
Right?
Yeah.
And we put people kind of inthose boxes.
Mm-hmm.
But one of the most profoundthings from that training that
I've transferred into my life isthat when you are creating art
in whatever form that would be,and I would.
(04:34):
Beg to to say that motherhood isan art in and of itself.
Sure.
Raising children, friendships.
Nicole (04:40):
Yeah.
Robin (04:40):
It's not the final product that is the true beauty.
It's the entire process ofgetting there.
Mm-hmm.
And that's that messy middlewhen you're mm-hmm.
Growing and developing andcreating the, you know, little
tweaks along the way in order totend to what is.
Nicole (05:01):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I would absolutely agreewith that.
Robin (05:05):
But what I have struggled with and been challenged by,
especially as someone who is,has had the glass shattered on
realizing that I am super neurospicy neurodivergent, um, is the
loss of like, where am I going?
What am I doing?
(05:26):
Who am I in the midst of all ofthis?
Nicole (05:28):
Right?
Robin (05:29):
So friend.
Spit me some truth here.
I'm in the messy middle rightnow, especially as we're
recording.
This is like, it's an unpopularopinion, especially here in
Minnesota where I live, but I donot like summer because my neuro
spice really likes the setschedule, right?
I like things defined for me tobe able to work within those
(05:51):
boundaries, and I'm just feelinga little bit lost.
Yeah.
So help me out.
What am I, how am I supposed tosurvive this messy middle right
now?
Nicole (05:59):
You have to create your own boundaries, which I feel
like you do really well.
Robin (06:05):
Sometimes.
A little too rigidly, but okay.
Nicole (06:07):
Yeah.
I feel like you do, I feel likeyou create a good outline, I
think the first step, isacknowledging that you don't,
that you need a schedule.
There's nothing wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with, andagain, as moms, we wanna be the
fixtures of everything.
And sometimes that starts withacknowledging what our needs are
first, because we are the heartof the home.
So acknowledging that, I dobetter with the schedule is the
(06:28):
first step in embracing thatmessy middle.
And I also maybe even taking astep farther is what if the
first step is embracing themessiness?
Mm-hmm.
Like that it doesn't need tolook a certain way or evaluating
the root of what is like what?
(06:48):
What is causing the struggle?
The root is that you do betterwith a schedule.
So other people, it might bethat the root is that do they,
are they expecting their summerto look a certain way because
they're judging it against asocietal norm or how they were
raised.
And then really finding the rootof what actually works for your
household, for your home, foryou.
Acknowledging that and thenembracing that and creating
(07:11):
structure around.
What works best for you as aperson and your family, as their
own individuals and your familyunit?
I think that's probably likewhere you really start to.
Just embracing the mess.
'cause there's, get rid of thepicture.
Perfect.
It doesn't exist.
We're all in this boat together.
And then that helps you feelsecure in your mess.
Robin (07:34):
Well, and when you speak like that to me on that topic, I
see just the connections betweenso many different pieces, but
especially around.
As a woman in midlife goingthrough perimenopause and
menopause.
Mm-hmm.
And as you know, I went throughperimenopause in my late
thirties, which is earlier thanmost, and now at 42.
(07:56):
I've been in menopauseofficially for for two years
and.
The, one of the reasons that I'mignited to do the work that I do
is because I did not know that Iwas going through perimenopause
right when I was going throughit.
Right.
So there were so many piecesthat I was losing my ever love
and mind.
(08:16):
Mm-hmm.
And did not know why all ofthese different symptoms were
emerging.
Right.
And there might be some othervarying factors that contributed
because each of us has our ownhealth journey.
Right.
But the power in awareness Yes.
In being able to name andnormalize mm-hmm.
Whatever middle that you are in,and whatever mess that it is.
Nicole (08:38):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (08:38):
When we are denying or we are unconscious, we can't tend
to what actually needs to helpus feel.
Absolutely.
Really, it's,
Nicole (08:46):
it's empowered, you know, and Right.
Yeah.
I think we also,
Robin (08:50):
when you were just go ahead.
Nicole (08:51):
We think messy instantly, we think negative.
And I think that we're trying tochange that It's messy, but that
doesn't have to be a negative.
It doesn't have to be somethingthat's meant to be tended.
Not, um, like cleaned up, Iguess is what I'm trying to say.
But like in you're saying liketending to it and honoring and
naming that so you can empoweryourself, shifts that dynamic in
(09:13):
a more positive direction.
Robin (09:15):
I love that because it is that work around mindset with
not only mm-hmm.
A growth mindset, but abundancewhere you shift the energy based
off of what it is that you'rebringing to that word, that
dynamic.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, you and I bothidentify as being
neurodivergent.
Right.
And there, up until recently.
(09:40):
I would say a lot of thenarrative of our society was
that that was negative.
Nicole (09:44):
Right.
Robin (09:45):
Having a DHD, having dyslexia, having, you know,
autism mm-hmm.
That those are things that, wellthey're not typical, you know,
they're not even the word.
Um, the word normal, I don'tlike that word.
Nicole (10:00):
No, we don't use that word in our house.
Robin (10:02):
We use
Nicole (10:02):
typical and we use neurotypical or like we don't
use normal.
Or regular or how, you know,what I
Robin (10:08):
shifted it into with my daughter, um, is average.
I'm like, no, you are notaverage honey.
Right, right.
You are very different thanaverage.
Yeah.
And that is okay because we needthe fullest exp express.
And maybe that's part of themath side of me too.
You know, we need the fullestexpression of everyone in order
to find what, you know, we cankind of define in order to be
(10:30):
able to make sense of it.
But when we are able to stepinto our fullest selves and.
Let go of our expectation andreally embrace the power that is
in, like I said, that process,right?
Mm-hmm.
Not the final product of gettingout of what this is right now.
It's embracing this journey ofwhatever that mess is,
Nicole (10:52):
right?
Robin (10:52):
To be able to feel.
Empowered, like we have somecontrol.
Nicole (10:58):
Right?
Robin (10:58):
That's the delicate space of where I think it almost would
be appropriate to think of it asa negative connotation if you
are feeling powerless.
Right?
If you are not sure, like forme, with perimenopause I did
didn't.
It did, I did not know, right.
Why all of these things werehappening and I was just trying
to survive and maybe piecetogether a full night of sleep
(11:20):
and trying to do all of thesethings.
Mm-hmm.
Where when we.
Have the ability to be aware ofwhat is the mess, define it.
That's when we can startnavigating how we want to
respond.
Nicole (11:33):
Right.
Robin (11:33):
And sometimes responding is a, is a really great therapy
and recovery term that Ipractice all the time.
And it's radical acceptance.
Nicole (11:43):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Radically
Robin (11:44):
accepting.
Nicole (11:44):
Yeah.
What
Robin (11:45):
is, even when it's uncomfortable or it is
unexpected from what we thoughtwas going to be.
Nicole (11:52):
You do such a good job with that.
In the work that you do, in themindset shifts and the energy
and realigning and usingvocabulary that is empowering
for meeting women where they'reat,.
I am repeating myself, but thevocabulary to move forward and
to see a different direction andsee hope of, like you've said,
(12:13):
when we can name it like it'sperimenopause, there's something
in that makes us feel okay I cansee it, I can identify it, and I
can relate to what, then it'seasier to identify and relate to
other people.
And again, feeling seen andconnected creates this
beautiful, powerful experience.
This is not necessarily thegreatest example in the world,
(12:34):
but, I have dyslexia and one ofmy middle son has dyslexia and
dysgraphia and there wassomething on the news about, the
California governor.
I don't remember his name.
Newsom.
Newsom?
Yep.
Okay.
And he said something aboutbeing dyslexic.
I don't know anything aboutNewsom, I don't have an opinion
about him, but he said that hewas dyslexic and I told that to
(12:54):
my son and you could, it waslike someone in power who has is
successful.
Is admitting that he has thisthing that my son sees as such a
negative thing and it'ssomething hard.
He has to work much harder thanan average student, and he has
to receive accommodations thatmake him feel different than
other students.
In order for him to have thesame starting place and he saw
(13:16):
this person, and so there issomething powerful and.
Talking about where we're at inthe messy middle to give someone
else some encouragement forwhat's ahead or what's possible,
because like just to see myson's connection was really
powerful.
He also doesn't know anythingabout this governor, but just
knowing he was successful and hehas the same thing he did, it
(13:37):
was like, oh, okay.
Robin (13:40):
Yeah, that is powerful.
You know, when I teach around,uh, helping women to transform
their energy, that first step isawareness.
Mm-hmm.
And then all the steps inbetween are about experimenting
with ways to help grow yourself.
Mm-hmm.
And yet the most uncomfortablespot is when you are aware and
yet.
You maybe don't have the toolsyet to be able to make the
(14:03):
changes to the place that youwant to be, and that's where it
requires inner fitness, whereyou can.
Identify those thoughts.
And there are practices likewith meditation and mindfulness
Nicole (14:15):
mm-hmm.
Robin (14:15):
Where it helps train your brain.
It's just like a, a physicalbicep curl for your brain so
that you can create space to beable to identify what it is, but
you can't, I.
Identify and make those shifts,like you said, until it's, until
it's normalized.
And that's why we're meant to betogether and we're meant to have
courageous conversations aroundall sorts of different topics.
(14:37):
And that's why we are here, yay.
For each other and for buildingthis virtual village.
Mm-hmm.
So let's wrap up this episode byreminding you that there's
nothing wrong with being in themessy middle.
It's not a flaw.
It's not a failure, it's just asign that you're human and
(14:57):
you're doing the dang thing.
You're in the process of.
Becoming that next piece.
So if today's episode hit home,we ask that you pass it along to
someone else who might be stuckin their own in between.
Mm-hmm.
And let's remind each other withcompassion that every single
(15:19):
season.
Matters.
Every chapter counts.
And yes, even the messy middleis sacred ground.
So in a way, this podcast, we'rein our own messy middle because
we've started somethingbeautiful, but we need your help
to grow this virtual village.
So if this space is speaking toyou, please scroll down and
(15:41):
leave a rating and a review,especially during this messy
middle and the launch, those fewseconds of love, it makes a huge
difference in helping us toactualize our mission of helping
other moms to feel seen in allof it.
We are so grateful that you arehere.
Not just as a listener, but aspart of this honest, truly holy
(16:06):
and human space between thebefore and the becoming, which
is motherhood and the messymiddle until next time, sending
so much love.
Nicole (16:18):
Bye guys.
before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
(16:38):
So take what you need, leave therest.
You never know when you're gonnaneed it.
Or when your group chat mightthank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
virtual village.
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