July 3, 2025 • 19 mins
What happens when your child’s life path, diagnosis, or identity doesn’t match the future you dreamed of?
In this honest, episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, we talk about what it’s like to parent a child whose journey—because of neurodivergence, mental health, or other challenges—looks different than expected.
Whether you’re raising a child with special needs, or simply holding space for a different kind of motherhood, you’ll find support and hope here.
✨ Topics we explore:
— Quiet grief and unspoken mom guilt
— Letting go of expectations in parenting
— Accepting your child for who they are
— The power of curiosity and compassion
This conversation is tender, relatable, and rooted in grace. If you’ve ever whispered “this isn’t what I pictured,” this episode is for you.
🎧 Listen now and share with a mom who needs encouragement in the messy middle of parenting.
Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!
Ready for more real talk and soulful support? Head to motherhoodandthemessy.com for resources, freebies, and our latest episodes.
Explore the Resource Vault - packed with free tools and more, to support you in every season of motherhood: Click Here
Let’s connect on Instagram:
@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle
Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review-it helps other moms find our virtual village.
This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Robin (00:01):
What do you do when the child you dreamed of isn't the
one standing in front of you?
Maybe you expected a miniversion of yourself and got
something beautifully, wildlydifferent, or maybe the path
that your child is on.
It just wasn't the one that youpictured, whether it's a
diagnosis, a detour, or acompletely different identity.
This episode is for every momnavigating the quiet grief and
(00:23):
fierce love that coexist whenexpectations meet real life.
Welcome to episode four ofMotherhood and the Messy Middle,
where we're talking about theparts of motherhood that don't
make it into the milestonealbums, but absolutely shape who
we become.
(00:44):
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
(01:05):
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
(01:26):
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
Alright, Nicole, today we're gonna talk about something
that most moms experience insome way, but really not enough
of us.
Talk about what happens whenyour kids don't turn out how you
expected.
And I'm just gonna ask you, howwould you answer that question?
(01:49):
I.
Nicole (01:51):
I feel like this is my entire identity as a mom because
we talked about, I didn'tnecessarily go into motherhood
with a lot of expectations, butwhat I've learned about
expectations that they'rehidden, they're, they exist and
I don't necessarily know thatthey're there until something
shifts and it doesn't look how Ithought it was going to look,
even though I wasn't consciouslysetting an expectation.
(02:13):
So how I answer that question iswith.
Curiosity.
You.
You meet that.
That new what?
New what it looks like to enterinto something new that you
didn't expect.
With curiosity.
Get to know the version of yourchild.
Get to know their diagnosis.
Dive deeper into what that newlooks like so that you can
(02:35):
adjust accordingly, yourmotherhood journey to support
what they need and what youneed.
And I also think there's alittle bit of grief in that and
that you're allowed and youshould honor that, that.
It doesn't look how you thoughtit was going to, and that's okay
to experience some sadness aboutthat.
That doesn't make you a bad mom.
I think that it's good to honorwhere you're at.
(02:57):
That's so important.
Robin (02:58):
Well, I mean, me hearing you say that it's something that
I've had to work on in a lot oftherapy, and that's one of the
reasons I'm so glad that we'refriends because, uh, you repeat
and reiterate the things that Ioften forget and one of them is.
That how I feel is valid and myfeelings don't make or shape me
(03:19):
as a mother even when I feelgrief for those missed
expectations.
Uh, what does I believe for memake a good mother is that
consciousness that you weretalking about, like being aware
of where those feelings are sothat they don't come out
sideways.
Mm-hmm.
And that you can create space totruly, you know, surrender for
(03:40):
what is so that we can, we can.
Meet what is with love andcompassion, but the missing
piece that so many of us don'thit the mark on is that love and
compassion needs to be forourselves as well.
Mm-hmm.
In the process.
Mm-hmm.
And that's why all of this isabout, it's messy.
It's not just like a lock stepchecklist process because all of
(04:03):
this is happening in real timewith humans who are changing in
all of the different, differentmoments.
And you know, I've.
There's just so many PA parts ofthe motherhood journey that it
really has been hiddenexpectations.
Mm-hmm.
You know, for me, um, going through IVF to have my
daughter, and then she had agenetic, uh, diagnosis of a
(04:29):
genetic abnormality at threemonths old, and it was a really
traumatic process going throughall of that.
That's what I thought was goingto be the missed expectations.
Mm-hmm.
Not like the, you know.
End of third grade, and she'sstill struggling with her
multiplication tables
mm-hmm.
That I wasn't anticipating until it actually
happened.
Right, right, right.
So there's
Nicole (04:49):
even things for me that I think about, that are just
like natural and normalexpectations.
I expected that my stepdaughterat the time and my husband and I
got married that, she would havea wedding and a baby shower and
a graduation and, you know, bothsets of her parents would be
there.
But that's not how it shapedout.
She didn't end up having agraduation at all.
(05:10):
So we couldn't have all evenbeen there but there's this,
there's that process, especiallyas our kids get older, that in
family dynamics you think, oh,like that.
That's just not, that will justhappen.
And then when it doesn't, you'relike, oh, okay, like that looks
different.
But then I can flip it and honorher and also honor how I'm
(05:31):
feeling that like it's a little.
I'm a little bit sad that Iwon't get to experience that
while also being equally happyin who she is as an individual.
Or when my son was diagnosedwith autism, what does that look
like?
That changed everything that wasreally hard for me to get.
I.
And even now, back then I got myexpectations shifted on what his
(05:52):
future might look like.
But honestly, he's grown in suchways that it doesn't, I feel
like I had these multiple shiftsof expectations, uh, like a
typical.
You know, teenage years, adultyears, and then a neurotypical
what I expected it to look like.
And then now it's just who he isand it's, he's exceeded all of
my expectations, but there's somany layers to it.
Robin (06:15):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think one thing that Ihave known really well is this
whole concept of grief.
And most of us, mm.
Think of grief in the way of a,a death of a, of a person,
right?
And I've had a lot of deaths inmy life.
And, um, but grief is really theloss of anything.
It can be the loss of a job, itcan be the loss, like we're
(06:37):
saying right now, of anexpectation.
And in my grief journey with mydad, with his early onset
dementia, I learned about anaspect of grief.
That's grief, that's calledanticipatory grief.
Hmm.
And you know, now that I amabout to come upon the two year
mark of his passing, I reflectreally heavily on how that
(07:01):
anticipatory grief showed up inmy life and how it compares
right now to this, thisdifferent grief.
Mm-hmm.
And there's gonna be layers tothat.
Um, I'm experiencing it in adifferent way with my daughter.
We just wrapped up, uh, herrecreational dance season and
she was in jazz lyrical, and Oh,she was so cute.
(07:23):
And it's just like we've seenher grow so much in her growth,
gross motor skills and all ofthese things, and.
She really prefers singing andacting, but dancing is part of
that, especially with howcompetitive things are.
And so we wanted her to beprepared.
And she said that this is thelast year that she's going to be
doing this recreational dance.
(07:45):
And so for me, I'm feeling griefaround that.
Mm-hmm.
And even in the moment watchingthese last performances, I was
just weeping because I was, Iwas feeling all of it, and truly
it is.
And.
Anticipatory because we don'tactually know that that's what's
gonna happen.
Mm-hmm.
Especially'cause, you know, Imight be trying to plant some
(08:07):
seeds to get her to do thisrecreational dance thing, just
like maybe one more year.
Yeah.
Um, and then there will bethings I know that could happen
in the future with that.
That might bring that grief upagain.
So there's like thatanticipatory grief, then there's
grief of when something happensand then there's the aftermath
(08:28):
of, yeah, oh, they didn't makethat milestone, or they didn't
get that.
And you're seeing someone else.
And that can show up in so manydifferent time periods.
Mm-hmm.
But the power comes in recognizing it and mm-hmm.
And normalizing that it's okayto feel those ways.
Right.
And that we can be, if we needto be.
(08:50):
A weeping mess at the same timethat we're celebrating that
present moment.
Mm-hmm.
I've struggled a lot in my life with like dissociating
and getting caught up inwhatever that emotion is and
then missing whatever thatpresent
Yeah.
Moment could be.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and that's what I'm afraidof for, for, for myself.
Mm-hmm.
As expectations are missed.
(09:11):
And for, for moms, you know,going forward,
Nicole (09:14):
I think something that helped me too, as I really
started diving into expectationsis identifying the root of my
expectation because.
I felt like a handful of timeswhen I really started digging
deep of what, why I had thatexpectation where that root came
from.
I realized that root didn'tactually identify with who I was
or who I was as a mother.
Like that root was maybe becausethat's how I was raised, and so
(09:38):
when I really got down to it, Iwas just replicating something
that I didn't actually believein.
Not that it was wrong, but itjust didn't identify with who I
was as a mother, but it becauseit was.
What I had seen and experienced,I was duplicating it or
expecting it to be duplicated.
And then so once I realized,wait, that doesn't actually fit
who I am, it was much easier tolet that go.
(10:02):
Like, okay, wait, like I.
I actually like this new thing,and so I think really peeling
back the layers of identifyingwhere that root is.
If it's the way you were raisedor what you're seeing, are you
comparing to things on socialmedia?
Are you comparing to otherfamilies around you that can
really help you?
I dunno, kind of categorizewhere this expectation is and if
(10:24):
it's true to you and if it's, ifit is, then yeah, what we're
saying, honoring it and maybe itmaybe, but maybe you also find
that it's not, and you canrelease it and embrace the new
expectation that you have.
Robin (10:35):
What do you find as you're looking at the root cause
of these expectations?
Has had more weight for you informing those, the way you were
raised or the societal thingsthat you're seeing in the
comparison between, you know,people within your, your
spiritual?
I think it's societal for mepersonally.
Nicole (10:55):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think I have to noteven,
Robin (10:57):
so where does that, that show up when you're looking at
it?
Like, is it, is it in in reallife when you know your kid is
on a team and then they're withother kids?
Or is it social media?
How is that showing up for you?
Nicole (11:10):
I think that I see it more in just my own internal,
for instance I was recentlytalking about how many screens I
have in my house, and we have alot.
We have a lot of gamers.
I have three boys.
Husband's a gamer, and so likethat's an expectation for me.
I assume that other people don'thave as many screens as I do,
and really realistically that'sprobably true.
People probably don't have asmany screens as we do, but I'm
(11:32):
just using this as example, solike I assume that.
It behind the walls of otherpeople's homes.
They don't have as many screensas we do.
And that's something that unlessyou're in someone's home, you
really don't know how manyscreens someone has in their
home.
But I have like this hiddenexpectation that every single
home has far less screens than Ido.
And so then I'm a bad mombecause I have more screens.
(11:55):
But reality is, I have no idea.
Except for the handful of closefriends that I have that have
been in their houses and knowhow many screens, I don't have
any idea how many screenseverybody has, but I internally
think that I'm a bad mom'causenobody else has as many screens.
But I, I genuinely have no idea.
I.
How did, how did I get there?
Like how did, I don't, I don'tknow.
I genuinely don't know how mymind, but I think that's a
(12:18):
normal process for us.
Robin (12:20):
A hundred percent.
You know, it connects to whenI'm working with women on like
holistic wellness and, andweight loss.
Ident.
Being able to be aware andidentifying our thoughts because
there is a natural part of beinghuman that we place judgment.
It's actually part of a survivalmechanism, not only judgment on
(12:41):
others in order to developsafety and security, but
judgment on ourselves so that wecan.
Evolve and that we can being,you know, being part of a group
is part of what we need ashumans.
Mm-hmm.
In order to feel like we areable to do anything else.
Mm-hmm.
To fit in.
(13:01):
Mm-hmm.
And yet.
The judgments are what canreally drag us down.
And even hearing you talk, likethat's what I, I see.
I hear things and then I seethem in my head as like
pictures.
And it almost feels like thesecords that are pulling you down,
like tethering you to all ofthese screens.
Mm-hmm.
And it's just a screen.
Right.
And when you talk about, likewhen, when we've had the
(13:24):
conversation about the screensin your home.
I see it as like, wow, maybe Ishould have more.
Because it sounds like you havea really great, great way to
nurture the children that youhave.
And in my home, we're battlingthe screen.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, it's this, it's theenergy behind all things that
(13:44):
really creates, there is no goodor bad.
It's the energy behind it thatcreates whether or not it's good
or bad.
And, um, you know, I'm amindfulness.
Practitioner and in mindfulness,it's about paying attention to
the present moment withoutjudgment.
Mm-hmm.
Releasing those judgments.
But it takes practice and sohard and, and it's part of being
(14:06):
human, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not, I'm not trying toteach people nor myself to be.
Above being human.
It's how do we be the besthumans that we can be?
How can we be the best mothersthat we can possibly be And
mm-hmm.
It's by being present and reallytuning into what is developing
that awareness for the differentemotions that come up when we
can name them.
(14:27):
That's what diminishes theshame.
Right.
And when we speak it into theworld, especially in like a
sacred soul sisterhood and intoour villages, that's when that
energy that is bringing us down.
It dissolves.
Mm-hmm.
Very good.
And so I'm just really glad thatwe have opened up this
conversation today about thereality that, that we all have
(14:51):
missed expectations.
Right.
It's okay that we haveexpectations.
Yes.
It's okay that we miss them.
Mm-hmm.
It's okay that we feel grief.
The thing that would not be okayis pretending like that doesn't
happen.
Nicole (15:04):
Right.
Right.
That and being tacticallypositive about
Robin (15:07):
it.
Nicole (15:07):
Yes.
And.
Yeah.
No, I, mm-hmm.
I lost my thought.
I agree with what you're saying.
I think that, yeah, the.
Robin (15:15):
It's'cause I stole your thought.
'cause it's, well, it's so good.
Yeah.
It's accepting our kids as theyare and then accepting ourselves
as we are.
Such that too.
Nicole (15:23):
Yes.
There's such beau.
I mean, I know it's a process toget there, but man, when you
like get there, it is so freeingto really, even going back to
the screens, anytime I get in aloop of oh my gosh, we have too
many screens and I'm ruiningthem.
And I think about each of mykids as individuals and they're
pretty great kids and they'repretty well rounded, so.
(15:43):
Is the screen ruining them?
I don't think so, and I justhave to center myself on who
they actually are, where theirstrengths are, where their gifts
are, their character, theirheart.
Okay.
I think we're doing okay.
If I'm messing up on thescreens, that's okay.
The core things are, we'redoing, we're doing okay.
And it's, it's, it's reallyfreeing to get there.
Yeah.
(16:04):
And that's, but it starts withacknowledging where you're at
and acknowledging those feelingsand not holding onto the shame
of it.
Robin (16:09):
And that's the goal.
Mm-hmm.
Is the freedom.
That space to be able to reallytune into what is and navigate
and pivot, and know that theonly expectation that any of us
will meet is that we will messup.
Nicole (16:24):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (16:24):
We absolutely will mess up
Nicole (16:26):
and offer.
Robin (16:27):
Go ahead.
Nicole (16:28):
Well, to piggyback on that is that you're going to
mess up and giving yourself thatgrace.
And I think the more that we'vetalked about this in previous
episodes, you give yourself thatgrace and the more your kids
will see you as human, you allowyourself to be human for you.
And then you can display thatfor your kids too, that I am
just a human.
I will get it wrong.
(16:49):
I will learn, I'll overcome,I'll do different.
And that's a powerful messagetoo, for yourself to
continually.
Train yourself that you can messup and you can try again.
There's nothing is final andthen it's example for your kids
too.
And I think that, um, that'swhere you find hope is in how
your kids meet you in that, andthat gives hope for the future
(17:11):
of what it looks like whenexpectations don't match up with
what you thought.
Robin (17:17):
Oh, well, I love that.
You know, to wrap up today'sconversation, I'm actually gonna
read a quote that I have writtenon my wall, and it's from Pope
Francis' book, hope That YouKnow, is Near and Dear to my
Heart.
Mm-hmm.
And in that book, he defineshope as the force for living in
the present with courage and acapacity to look toward the
(17:39):
future.
That's amazing.
That's perfect.
So as our kids are growing, weare going to have expectations
of how they will most likelyshow up now and as they continue
to grow.
But often that reality is gonnawrite a different story and we
can, through recognizing all ofthat, cultivate hope and knowing
(18:01):
that.
You are not alone.
Wherever you're at in yourexpectations for your children,
for your life, and especiallyfor yourself, that we each have
the capacity to feel however weneed to, and then shift into
what it is and really nurturethat reality.
So I'm so glad to have had thisconversation with you today,
Nicole, trying to shine thatlight and really end the shame,
(18:22):
especially the shame spiralsthat can emerge for each of us.
So what we ask is that if thisepisode spoke something.
In you.
I hope that you'll share it withanother mom who might silently
be carrying similar feelings.
Our goal is to break the silenceby sharing this episode, by
having these conversations andreminding each other that
(18:43):
there's so much beauty in theunexpected.
Now, if you haven't done it yet,please scroll down and leave us
a quick rating or review.
It really helps other moms findthis.
Base and it helps us keep theseconversations going, especially
in the early days of thispodcast and growing this virtual
village of support for moms inall seasons.
Thank you for being here.
(19:03):
You're doing so much better thanyou might think that you are.
And we'll see you in the nextepisode.
Nicole (19:09):
Bye guys.
Hey, before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
(19:29):
So take what you need, leave therest.
You never know when you're gonnaneed it or when your group chat
might thank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
virtual village.
What do you do when the child you dreamed of isn't the
one standing in front of you?
Maybe you expected a miniversion of yourself and got
something beautifully, wildlydifferent, or maybe the path
that your child is on.
It just wasn't the one that youpictured, whether it's a
diagnosis, a detour, or acompletely different identity.
This episode is for every momnavigating the quiet grief and
(00:23):
fierce love that coexist whenexpectations meet real life.
Welcome to episode four ofMotherhood and the Messy Middle,
where we're talking about theparts of motherhood that don't
make it into the milestonealbums, but absolutely shape who
we become.
(00:44):
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
(01:05):
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
(01:26):
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
Alright, Nicole, today we're gonna talk about something
that most moms experience insome way, but really not enough
of us.
Talk about what happens whenyour kids don't turn out how you
expected.
And I'm just gonna ask you, howwould you answer that question?
(01:49):
I.
Nicole (01:51):
I feel like this is my entire identity as a mom because
we talked about, I didn'tnecessarily go into motherhood
with a lot of expectations, butwhat I've learned about
expectations that they'rehidden, they're, they exist and
I don't necessarily know thatthey're there until something
shifts and it doesn't look how Ithought it was going to look,
even though I wasn't consciouslysetting an expectation.
(02:13):
So how I answer that question iswith.
Curiosity.
You.
You meet that.
That new what?
New what it looks like to enterinto something new that you
didn't expect.
With curiosity.
Get to know the version of yourchild.
Get to know their diagnosis.
Dive deeper into what that newlooks like so that you can
(02:35):
adjust accordingly, yourmotherhood journey to support
what they need and what youneed.
And I also think there's alittle bit of grief in that and
that you're allowed and youshould honor that, that.
It doesn't look how you thoughtit was going to, and that's okay
to experience some sadness aboutthat.
That doesn't make you a bad mom.
I think that it's good to honorwhere you're at.
(02:57):
That's so important.
Robin (02:58):
Well, I mean, me hearing you say that it's something that
I've had to work on in a lot oftherapy, and that's one of the
reasons I'm so glad that we'refriends because, uh, you repeat
and reiterate the things that Ioften forget and one of them is.
That how I feel is valid and myfeelings don't make or shape me
(03:19):
as a mother even when I feelgrief for those missed
expectations.
Uh, what does I believe for memake a good mother is that
consciousness that you weretalking about, like being aware
of where those feelings are sothat they don't come out
sideways.
Mm-hmm.
And that you can create space totruly, you know, surrender for
(03:40):
what is so that we can, we can.
Meet what is with love andcompassion, but the missing
piece that so many of us don'thit the mark on is that love and
compassion needs to be forourselves as well.
Mm-hmm.
In the process.
Mm-hmm.
And that's why all of this isabout, it's messy.
It's not just like a lock stepchecklist process because all of
(04:03):
this is happening in real timewith humans who are changing in
all of the different, differentmoments.
And you know, I've.
There's just so many PA parts ofthe motherhood journey that it
really has been hiddenexpectations.
Mm-hmm.
You know, for me, um, going through IVF to have my
daughter, and then she had agenetic, uh, diagnosis of a
(04:29):
genetic abnormality at threemonths old, and it was a really
traumatic process going throughall of that.
That's what I thought was goingto be the missed expectations.
Mm-hmm.
Not like the, you know.
End of third grade, and she'sstill struggling with her
multiplication tables
mm-hmm.
That I wasn't anticipating until it actually
happened.
Right, right, right.
So there's
Nicole (04:49):
even things for me that I think about, that are just
like natural and normalexpectations.
I expected that my stepdaughterat the time and my husband and I
got married that, she would havea wedding and a baby shower and
a graduation and, you know, bothsets of her parents would be
there.
But that's not how it shapedout.
She didn't end up having agraduation at all.
(05:10):
So we couldn't have all evenbeen there but there's this,
there's that process, especiallyas our kids get older, that in
family dynamics you think, oh,like that.
That's just not, that will justhappen.
And then when it doesn't, you'relike, oh, okay, like that looks
different.
But then I can flip it and honorher and also honor how I'm
(05:31):
feeling that like it's a little.
I'm a little bit sad that Iwon't get to experience that
while also being equally happyin who she is as an individual.
Or when my son was diagnosedwith autism, what does that look
like?
That changed everything that wasreally hard for me to get.
I.
And even now, back then I got myexpectations shifted on what his
(05:52):
future might look like.
But honestly, he's grown in suchways that it doesn't, I feel
like I had these multiple shiftsof expectations, uh, like a
typical.
You know, teenage years, adultyears, and then a neurotypical
what I expected it to look like.
And then now it's just who he isand it's, he's exceeded all of
my expectations, but there's somany layers to it.
Robin (06:15):
Yeah, definitely.
And I think one thing that Ihave known really well is this
whole concept of grief.
And most of us, mm.
Think of grief in the way of a,a death of a, of a person,
right?
And I've had a lot of deaths inmy life.
And, um, but grief is really theloss of anything.
It can be the loss of a job, itcan be the loss, like we're
(06:37):
saying right now, of anexpectation.
And in my grief journey with mydad, with his early onset
dementia, I learned about anaspect of grief.
That's grief, that's calledanticipatory grief.
Hmm.
And you know, now that I amabout to come upon the two year
mark of his passing, I reflectreally heavily on how that
(07:01):
anticipatory grief showed up inmy life and how it compares
right now to this, thisdifferent grief.
Mm-hmm.
And there's gonna be layers tothat.
Um, I'm experiencing it in adifferent way with my daughter.
We just wrapped up, uh, herrecreational dance season and
she was in jazz lyrical, and Oh,she was so cute.
(07:23):
And it's just like we've seenher grow so much in her growth,
gross motor skills and all ofthese things, and.
She really prefers singing andacting, but dancing is part of
that, especially with howcompetitive things are.
And so we wanted her to beprepared.
And she said that this is thelast year that she's going to be
doing this recreational dance.
(07:45):
And so for me, I'm feeling griefaround that.
Mm-hmm.
And even in the moment watchingthese last performances, I was
just weeping because I was, Iwas feeling all of it, and truly
it is.
And.
Anticipatory because we don'tactually know that that's what's
gonna happen.
Mm-hmm.
Especially'cause, you know, Imight be trying to plant some
(08:07):
seeds to get her to do thisrecreational dance thing, just
like maybe one more year.
Yeah.
Um, and then there will bethings I know that could happen
in the future with that.
That might bring that grief upagain.
So there's like thatanticipatory grief, then there's
grief of when something happensand then there's the aftermath
(08:28):
of, yeah, oh, they didn't makethat milestone, or they didn't
get that.
And you're seeing someone else.
And that can show up in so manydifferent time periods.
Mm-hmm.
But the power comes in recognizing it and mm-hmm.
And normalizing that it's okayto feel those ways.
Right.
And that we can be, if we needto be.
(08:50):
A weeping mess at the same timethat we're celebrating that
present moment.
Mm-hmm.
I've struggled a lot in my life with like dissociating
and getting caught up inwhatever that emotion is and
then missing whatever thatpresent
Yeah.
Moment could be.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and that's what I'm afraidof for, for, for myself.
Mm-hmm.
As expectations are missed.
(09:11):
And for, for moms, you know,going forward,
Nicole (09:14):
I think something that helped me too, as I really
started diving into expectationsis identifying the root of my
expectation because.
I felt like a handful of timeswhen I really started digging
deep of what, why I had thatexpectation where that root came
from.
I realized that root didn'tactually identify with who I was
or who I was as a mother.
Like that root was maybe becausethat's how I was raised, and so
(09:38):
when I really got down to it, Iwas just replicating something
that I didn't actually believein.
Not that it was wrong, but itjust didn't identify with who I
was as a mother, but it becauseit was.
What I had seen and experienced,I was duplicating it or
expecting it to be duplicated.
And then so once I realized,wait, that doesn't actually fit
who I am, it was much easier tolet that go.
(10:02):
Like, okay, wait, like I.
I actually like this new thing,and so I think really peeling
back the layers of identifyingwhere that root is.
If it's the way you were raisedor what you're seeing, are you
comparing to things on socialmedia?
Are you comparing to otherfamilies around you that can
really help you?
I dunno, kind of categorizewhere this expectation is and if
(10:24):
it's true to you and if it's, ifit is, then yeah, what we're
saying, honoring it and maybe itmaybe, but maybe you also find
that it's not, and you canrelease it and embrace the new
expectation that you have.
Robin (10:35):
What do you find as you're looking at the root cause
of these expectations?
Has had more weight for you informing those, the way you were
raised or the societal thingsthat you're seeing in the
comparison between, you know,people within your, your
spiritual?
I think it's societal for mepersonally.
Nicole (10:55):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I think I have to noteven,
Robin (10:57):
so where does that, that show up when you're looking at
it?
Like, is it, is it in in reallife when you know your kid is
on a team and then they're withother kids?
Or is it social media?
How is that showing up for you?
Nicole (11:10):
I think that I see it more in just my own internal,
for instance I was recentlytalking about how many screens I
have in my house, and we have alot.
We have a lot of gamers.
I have three boys.
Husband's a gamer, and so likethat's an expectation for me.
I assume that other people don'thave as many screens as I do,
and really realistically that'sprobably true.
People probably don't have asmany screens as we do, but I'm
(11:32):
just using this as example, solike I assume that.
It behind the walls of otherpeople's homes.
They don't have as many screensas we do.
And that's something that unlessyou're in someone's home, you
really don't know how manyscreens someone has in their
home.
But I have like this hiddenexpectation that every single
home has far less screens than Ido.
And so then I'm a bad mombecause I have more screens.
(11:55):
But reality is, I have no idea.
Except for the handful of closefriends that I have that have
been in their houses and knowhow many screens, I don't have
any idea how many screenseverybody has, but I internally
think that I'm a bad mom'causenobody else has as many screens.
But I, I genuinely have no idea.
I.
How did, how did I get there?
Like how did, I don't, I don'tknow.
I genuinely don't know how mymind, but I think that's a
(12:18):
normal process for us.
Robin (12:20):
A hundred percent.
You know, it connects to whenI'm working with women on like
holistic wellness and, andweight loss.
Ident.
Being able to be aware andidentifying our thoughts because
there is a natural part of beinghuman that we place judgment.
It's actually part of a survivalmechanism, not only judgment on
(12:41):
others in order to developsafety and security, but
judgment on ourselves so that wecan.
Evolve and that we can being,you know, being part of a group
is part of what we need ashumans.
Mm-hmm.
In order to feel like we areable to do anything else.
Mm-hmm.
To fit in.
(13:01):
Mm-hmm.
And yet.
The judgments are what canreally drag us down.
And even hearing you talk, likethat's what I, I see.
I hear things and then I seethem in my head as like
pictures.
And it almost feels like thesecords that are pulling you down,
like tethering you to all ofthese screens.
Mm-hmm.
And it's just a screen.
Right.
And when you talk about, likewhen, when we've had the
(13:24):
conversation about the screensin your home.
I see it as like, wow, maybe Ishould have more.
Because it sounds like you havea really great, great way to
nurture the children that youhave.
And in my home, we're battlingthe screen.
Mm-hmm.
And it's, it's this, it's theenergy behind all things that
(13:44):
really creates, there is no goodor bad.
It's the energy behind it thatcreates whether or not it's good
or bad.
And, um, you know, I'm amindfulness.
Practitioner and in mindfulness,it's about paying attention to
the present moment withoutjudgment.
Mm-hmm.
Releasing those judgments.
But it takes practice and sohard and, and it's part of being
(14:06):
human, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I'm not, I'm not trying toteach people nor myself to be.
Above being human.
It's how do we be the besthumans that we can be?
How can we be the best mothersthat we can possibly be And
mm-hmm.
It's by being present and reallytuning into what is developing
that awareness for the differentemotions that come up when we
can name them.
(14:27):
That's what diminishes theshame.
Right.
And when we speak it into theworld, especially in like a
sacred soul sisterhood and intoour villages, that's when that
energy that is bringing us down.
It dissolves.
Mm-hmm.
Very good.
And so I'm just really glad thatwe have opened up this
conversation today about thereality that, that we all have
(14:51):
missed expectations.
Right.
It's okay that we haveexpectations.
Yes.
It's okay that we miss them.
Mm-hmm.
It's okay that we feel grief.
The thing that would not be okayis pretending like that doesn't
happen.
Nicole (15:04):
Right.
Right.
That and being tacticallypositive about
Robin (15:07):
it.
Nicole (15:07):
Yes.
And.
Yeah.
No, I, mm-hmm.
I lost my thought.
I agree with what you're saying.
I think that, yeah, the.
Robin (15:15):
It's'cause I stole your thought.
'cause it's, well, it's so good.
Yeah.
It's accepting our kids as theyare and then accepting ourselves
as we are.
Such that too.
Nicole (15:23):
Yes.
There's such beau.
I mean, I know it's a process toget there, but man, when you
like get there, it is so freeingto really, even going back to
the screens, anytime I get in aloop of oh my gosh, we have too
many screens and I'm ruiningthem.
And I think about each of mykids as individuals and they're
pretty great kids and they'repretty well rounded, so.
(15:43):
Is the screen ruining them?
I don't think so, and I justhave to center myself on who
they actually are, where theirstrengths are, where their gifts
are, their character, theirheart.
Okay.
I think we're doing okay.
If I'm messing up on thescreens, that's okay.
The core things are, we'redoing, we're doing okay.
And it's, it's, it's reallyfreeing to get there.
Yeah.
(16:04):
And that's, but it starts withacknowledging where you're at
and acknowledging those feelingsand not holding onto the shame
of it.
Robin (16:09):
And that's the goal.
Mm-hmm.
Is the freedom.
That space to be able to reallytune into what is and navigate
and pivot, and know that theonly expectation that any of us
will meet is that we will messup.
Nicole (16:24):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (16:24):
We absolutely will mess up
Nicole (16:26):
and offer.
Robin (16:27):
Go ahead.
Nicole (16:28):
Well, to piggyback on that is that you're going to
mess up and giving yourself thatgrace.
And I think the more that we'vetalked about this in previous
episodes, you give yourself thatgrace and the more your kids
will see you as human, you allowyourself to be human for you.
And then you can display thatfor your kids too, that I am
just a human.
I will get it wrong.
(16:49):
I will learn, I'll overcome,I'll do different.
And that's a powerful messagetoo, for yourself to
continually.
Train yourself that you can messup and you can try again.
There's nothing is final andthen it's example for your kids
too.
And I think that, um, that'swhere you find hope is in how
your kids meet you in that, andthat gives hope for the future
(17:11):
of what it looks like whenexpectations don't match up with
what you thought.
Robin (17:17):
Oh, well, I love that.
You know, to wrap up today'sconversation, I'm actually gonna
read a quote that I have writtenon my wall, and it's from Pope
Francis' book, hope That YouKnow, is Near and Dear to my
Heart.
Mm-hmm.
And in that book, he defineshope as the force for living in
the present with courage and acapacity to look toward the
(17:39):
future.
That's amazing.
That's perfect.
So as our kids are growing, weare going to have expectations
of how they will most likelyshow up now and as they continue
to grow.
But often that reality is gonnawrite a different story and we
can, through recognizing all ofthat, cultivate hope and knowing
(18:01):
that.
You are not alone.
Wherever you're at in yourexpectations for your children,
for your life, and especiallyfor yourself, that we each have
the capacity to feel however weneed to, and then shift into
what it is and really nurturethat reality.
So I'm so glad to have had thisconversation with you today,
Nicole, trying to shine thatlight and really end the shame,
(18:22):
especially the shame spiralsthat can emerge for each of us.
So what we ask is that if thisepisode spoke something.
In you.
I hope that you'll share it withanother mom who might silently
be carrying similar feelings.
Our goal is to break the silenceby sharing this episode, by
having these conversations andreminding each other that
(18:43):
there's so much beauty in theunexpected.
Now, if you haven't done it yet,please scroll down and leave us
a quick rating or review.
It really helps other moms findthis.
Base and it helps us keep theseconversations going, especially
in the early days of thispodcast and growing this virtual
village of support for moms inall seasons.
Thank you for being here.
(19:03):
You're doing so much better thanyou might think that you are.
And we'll see you in the nextepisode.
Nicole (19:09):
Bye guys.
Hey, before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
(19:29):
So take what you need, leave therest.
You never know when you're gonnaneed it or when your group chat
might thank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
virtual village.
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