July 8, 2025 • 30 mins
What do you do when your mental health is struggling—and so is your child’s?
In this vulnerable and powerful episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, we’re talking about what it means to parent through anxiety, depression, trauma, grief, and recovery—while navigating your own emotional challenges at the same time.
We explore:
💛 Mothering through anxiety, PTSD, perimenopause, and grief
💛 How mental health struggles can show up in children—even the very young
💛 What it looks like to hold space without trying to fix
💛 Breaking generational patterns with compassion and courage
💛 How to advocate for yourself and your child
💛 The invisible labor—and invisible wounds—many moms carry
This episode is for the mom who feels like she’s barely holding it together, and for the woman choosing to show up with fierce love in the mess.
✨ You are not broken. You are becoming.
✨ You are not alone. You are deeply loved.
🎁 Free Resource:
Download here 👉 7 Things to Say (and Not Say) When Someone You Love Is in a Mental Health Crisis
📍 Trigger Warning:
This episode contains open discussion around anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and grief.
📍 Need Support? Call or text 988 for free, confidential help 24/7.
Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!
Ready for more real talk and soulful support? Head to motherhoodandthemessy.com for resources, freebies, and our latest episodes.
Explore the Resource Vault - packed with free tools and more, to support you in every season of motherhood: Click Here
Let’s connect on Instagram:
@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle
Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review-it helps other moms find our virtual village.
This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Robin (00:00):
What happens when the person's struggling with mental
health in your home is you andwhat happens when it's your
child?
No one hands you a manual forparenting through depression,
anxiety, trauma, or for watchingyour child navigate those same
struggles.
It can be lonely.
It's extremely heavy, and yetit's far more common than we
(00:22):
think.
Welcome to Motherhood and theMessy Middle, where we're
holding space for moms managingmental health from the inside
out in themselves, in theirkids, and in the silence.
That too often surrounds us.
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
(00:43):
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
(01:03):
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
(01:25):
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
Okay, Nicole, today we're talking about something that's
really close to both of ourhearts.
Mm-hmm.
And is part of the reason whywe've connected so deeply, and
that's mm-hmm.
Mental health and motherhood.
Nicole (01:41):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (01:42):
And when we've had this conversation, it's been really
interesting how it's emergedbecause we come at it from two
perspectives.
Mm-hmm.
I would say that the mostfrequently talked about aspect
of mental health in motherhoodis the.
Parent.
Mm-hmm.
Struggling with mental healthwhen it is also children that
(02:05):
emerge mm-hmm.
With mental health concerns.
Nicole (02:08):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (02:09):
So many moms are holding both of those directions
quietly, sometimes both at thesame time.
And today I really wanna talk toyou about how we can unpack
this, or at least start thisconversation mm-hmm.
With the goal of.
Normalizing it.
Let's talk honestly about whatit looks like to mom through
(02:30):
these mental health struggles.
So I guess I'm gonna open todaywith a question to you of, have
you ever had a season where yourown mental health made it hard
to show up as a mom?
Nicole (02:45):
Yeah, I, I love that we're talking about this because
like you said, it's so near anddear to our hearts.
Before we get into it more, Ijust wanna put a little
disclaimer out there that we arenot medical professionals.
This is our own perspective, andif you need medical advice or
input from doctors, please seekthat out from your medical
professionals.
(03:05):
And if you're struggling withyour mental health, you can text
or call 9 8 8 as a resource thatcan help you personally or it
can help you help your kids.
Just a little disclaimer beforewe jump in.
Showing up when for my kids ormy family when I was struggling,
is hard.
And I think a lot of how I showup.
(03:28):
Like everybody,, is because ofmy background and because I was
raised in a Christian homeschoolcommunity, and I also wanna just
preface that I know it'sdifferent now.
The homeschool Christiancommunities are very different
now than they were back in theeighties and nineties.
I, my mom struggled with herdepression and I saw how.
Much.
She tried to hide it because shedidn't have the support of her
(03:50):
friends and the church and theculture just said you didn't
have enough faith, you gottahave more faith.
So, I took a different routewhenever I've struggled of
really being pretty open andvulnerable about it so my kids
could see the, that it's humanand normal and we struggle and
how we can offer support andverbalizing support in order to
(04:12):
get me through the hump.
Now, I will say that I havenever been diagnosed or treated
for anxiety or depression.
So my perspective is muchdifferent than some other moms,
and individuals.
How does that look like for you,Robin, showing up when you're in
the messy middle of strugglingwith your mental health?
Robin (04:33):
Well, where I am with my mental health is that, um, I am
formally diagnosed with anxietyand, um, you know, I'm not
suffering from depression.
I'm always managing the symptomsof complex post-traumatic stress
disorder.
Mm-hmm.
And so for context, um, youknow, I experienced significant
(04:53):
childhood trauma.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I witnessed my mother'spassing.
She was the victim of domesticviolence and.
You say, you know, that we arethe product of, um, what we are
raised around and beyond thetrauma.
I was wrapped in a village thatwas there to help support my
(05:14):
healing and my mental healthrecovery.
Mm-hmm.
Even though I had that and I hadthe privilege of accessing, um,
psychiatrists and then alsocounselors in school, which in a
way is groundbreakingconsidering that I too am a
child of the eighties andnineties.
I find that.
(05:36):
The biggest mental healthstruggles for me came in
adulthood and then in becoming amother.
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (05:44):
So
Robin (05:44):
when I was in the most significant moments of my
struggles, I couldn't reallyidentify that I was actually in
them.
Mm.
And when you couple that withthe undiagnosed perimenopause
that I was going through mm-hmm.
Um, which.
Can make women think thatthey're going crazy in and of
themselves.
It was a very challenging timefor me.
Nicole (06:06):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (06:06):
Now, where I'm at now is that I can speak about it and
I've been able to name my story.
That's part of what has fueledthe connection between us, why I
have built a sole basedbusiness, um, helping others to
normalize what holistic health.
Can look like and what theirpotential can be when we pay
(06:27):
attention to not only our weightand our physical aspects and
attributes, but also our mentaland spiritual because they all
tie in together.
And yet I still have times ofextreme challenge.
Um, and so it's similar to youthat I name that, um, one of the
more complicated pieces for mebe with complex PTSD, is that.
(06:52):
I am dedicated to supporting mydaughter's mental health.
Mm-hmm.
And she does not know how hergrandmother died.
Mm-hmm.
And she doesn't know the detailsof that.
We talk about her angel, grandmaall the time.
Um, but I have been working withmedical professionals to support
my daughter's development andknowing how she is as a highly
(07:13):
sensitive person who has anxietyherself that is diagnosed.
She doesn't, we're actuallyabout to bridge that, that, that
step this summer into mm-hmm.
Letting her into what happenedto her, her grandmother.
Um, with all of that being said,it is a careful path that I
(07:33):
tread as a mother in normalizingwhat I need to do for myself.
So more than speaking about theexact level of.
Anxiety or panic attacks orthings that I have managed in
the past or that can start tocreep up.
I speak openly with my daughterabout being a recovering addict.
(07:56):
Mm-hmm.
And she knows, as an example,last night I had to leave the
home and go to a recoverymeeting in person.
I haven't been to an in-personrecovery meeting in six months,
but last night.
I identified that.
And so my daughter, she evenasked, it was so funny, she's
like, is this in person or justin your office?
(08:18):
'cause she's used to me doingonline meetings.
Mm-hmm.
Um, she knows that I havesupports with a talking, we call
it the talking doctor, you know,our therapist.
Mm-hmm.
And so we've just normalizedthat and I talked to her about
it.
And, um, she's not onlynormalize, we not only
normalize.
The struggle.
We also embrace all of thedifferent parts that I do.
(08:43):
In order for me to be healthy.
So I talk to her about the foodthat I'm eating and how it
impacts my body.
Um, she, you know, will all ofthe sudden put on meditation,
music, and mm-hmm.
And do some different breathingexercises She's told me about at
school when a, another child hasdealt with, um, a panic type of
(09:06):
incident and she's had themidentify what are five things
that you see?
What are two things that yousmell?
Because I've done thoseactivities with her and right
when I can, I model them.
So it's been for me, not onlymy, my mental health has been at
the forefront of, within ourfamily, but then my daughter's
(09:28):
diagnosis has emerged from that.
And so we are reallycollaborating together on what
it looks like and creating safespace, not only in our home,
but.
In the places where she goes andis cared for.
Mm-hmm.
Including like the orthodontist.
Yeah.
Um, you know, she watches meadvocate for her.
(09:50):
Mm-hmm.
When.
I have said, so we need to knowwhat is happening in the next
steps here because that willhelp this experience.
My daughter's highly sensitive.
Um, you know, she has anxietythat she manages.
Can you help describe thisprocess?
And people respond.
Yes.
People want to respond.
They just often don't know how,and so.
Nicole (10:12):
Being, you kind of have to lead them.
Yes.
When you're that advocate, youkind of lead them in.
You set the expectations, you'rekind of telling them what is
actually needed and they justfill in the blanks.
Really?
Robin (10:22):
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (10:23):
Mm-hmm.
It's
Robin (10:24):
powerful.
So.
For, you know, you asked meabout my own mental health, but
then I transitioned into with mydaughter mm-hmm.
And her anxiety and, you know,her sensory processing disorder,
which I think there might be alittle bit of a DHD in there
too.
Mm-hmm.
But we're gonna continue to justmonitor and, and support her as
she is.
Mm-hmm.
And as she grows.
Can you speak to, you have, Ihave this one child.
(10:47):
You have a gaggle of children.
How does I do?
How does, how does mental healthshow up in your household?
Nicole (10:56):
It shows up in a big way.
Um, our youngest struggles withit.
Um, he is diagnosed and treatedfor anxiety and depression and A
DHD.
Um, and that's, he something Idon't, a vulnerable share that
I'll share here that I don't.
Necessarily talk about, often bejust because of I don't like the
(11:18):
judgment that necessarily I, Ianticipate will come, I don't
even know if I'm being judged.
I just anticipate that thejudging will come, is that he
has struggled with that since hewas like seven years old.
And statistically that happens,but you don't hear people talk
about it a lot.
Yeah.
And so.
It was pretty jarring for us.
But the, he's been tocounseling.
(11:40):
We've done the therapies.
He had a wonderful counselor, aplay counselor, and she had a
therapy dog.
And it was really transformativefor him and for us.
'cause she helped teach us alot.
Um.
But it comes out a lot.
So, you know, when he comes homefrom school, he instantly goes,
he has a swing in his room, likea sensory swing, one of those
cloth ones that kind of acocoon.
(12:01):
And we don't, we don't have avery big house, and he has a
pretty small room, but right inthe middle of his room is that
swing.
And every day when he comeshome, he takes a snack and he
gets in his swing with his snackbecause he has to decompress for
the day.
He has.
Been putting his social capacityis overflowing.
He's overstimulated and he goesin his swing every day.
(12:24):
And we talk a lot about mentalhealth.
It's a big, it's predominant inour home.
I'm a mental health advocate.
I work with a nonprofitorganization to help parents
support their kids who arestruggling with their mental
health.
One of my older kids hasstruggled with suicidal
ideations.
And that's something that ouryoungest struggles with as well,
and that's something that I hadto really learn about.
(12:45):
'cause I didn't.
I didn't understand and I had toapologize to my older child too.
Mm-hmm.
Because I got it wrong a lotwhen they were growing up
because I didn't know and Iwasn't talking to anybody about
it, and I, I didn't have theresources and the support that I
needed, so I responded toeverything as if, if it was a
crisis.
But what I learned is there'sdifferent stages and I didn't
(13:07):
know how to identify what stagewe were in, so everything just
became a crisis and.
While, if you don't know that isthe appropriate way to respond,
but through education, I'velearned how to show up better
and in a more supportivecapacity.
And so that filters down to allof our kids because we want,
(13:29):
even if they're not diagnosed,we all have ups and downs and we
all have struggles and there'stools to be gained for all of
our kids.
So it's a very, like even thissummer.
Every day.
It's our mental health matters.
What are we doing for our mentalhealth day?
So for my youngest, withoutschool, he doesn't wanna get
dressed and he'd prefer to stayin bed all day, every day.
(13:50):
You have to get dressed and wehave to open our blinds and
open, let the sunshine in, andyou can stay in your bed for a
certain time, amount of time.
And then we have to get out ofour bed.
So like honoring where he's at,but also encouraging a forward
step.
So a lot of.
Managing mental health for mykids is learning what they need
as individuals and how to showup for them in that way, and I
(14:12):
also learned.
How to get really comfortablewith really uncomfortable
conversations.
Mm-hmm.
And really uncomfortablesituations.
And I learned how to be stilland silent.
You know, when my older childwas in a fetal position, didn't
want me to leave the room, butdidn't want me to touch them.
(14:33):
I had to learn how to just sitthere.
And I couldn't be on my phone.
I, I couldn't have adistraction.
I needed to be readilyavailable, but I couldn't do
anything.
And as a mom, you know how hardthat is when we can't do and we
can't fix, yeah.
Mental health, we can't fix, andthat's really hard.
Uh, but learning how to supportthem.
It helps us feel like we have aplace and helps honor where
(14:57):
they're at.
And I think, like you said,naming it is really important so
that we can learn how to supportit and find the tools that fit
them as individuals.
Robin (15:08):
Oh, I have so much that I wanna say to you, and I'm just
feeling so many things.
Especially the fact that wehaven't met in person, and I
just wanna hug you and hold youright now hearing you speak
about how you are able to showup for your children.
(15:30):
I want you to know that thathelps heal me.
Oh, not just as a mom, but asI'm still this child who just
wants someone to be able to showup for me.
Yeah.
And hold the space.
Yeah.
And it's one of the reasons Iknow, and I have learned that as
(15:53):
women, we are the heartbeats ofour society and as mothers, we
are the heartbeats of our home.
Yeah.
And when we can be that stable.
Post.
Mm-hmm.
For them, while everything elseswirls around, they can hold on
and be grounded and develop whatit is that they need as
(16:14):
individuals in order to manageand grow in their health.
Mm-hmm.
And that is.
That is resilience is being ableto build that inner fitness is
what I call it.
Mm-hmm.
The inner fitness of being ableto not only pick yourself up and
(16:35):
keep moving on, but also beingable to sit in the discomfort to
know that when you pick yourselfup, where is it going?
Where is that next piece goingto be and going to go.
And it's not something that istaught and for most people it is
not something that is.
Just innately known.
Nicole (16:56):
Hmm.
Robin (16:57):
And the more that we are separated from the villages in
which we're meant to be in,which are not just living next
to each other, it's living withand fully seeing each other just
as we are.
The more isolated that we becomeand the less equipped that we
(17:18):
are to know how to handlesituations.
And it's so important that you.
Doing what you're doing for yourfamily, but I am just in awe and
you should be so proud ofyourself for what you're doing
for our world with the Speak Outorganization, helping to empower
families with resources.
(17:39):
Because the other part is, isthat it's a whole spectrum.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Nicole (17:43):
Yeah.
There's not a one fits all, orit's not just follow this or do
this and it'll work.
It's it, yeah.
It's, it's a variety of things
Robin (17:52):
and
Nicole (17:53):
I.
It's why,
Robin (17:54):
and the mental, the mental health and mental illness
shows up in a variety of ways.
We Right.
Don't have to have a diagnosedmental illness in order to be
suffering from a mental healthaffliction because of whatever
it might be.
Um, I also, well, when we thinkabout as
Nicole (18:13):
us as adults.
Our children are likely going toencounter as, especially as they
become adults, they're going toencounter a hard season, where
they're having to have thatresiliency and they.
Even if they don't have adiagnose, teaching them the
tools of how to show up whenthey're struggling in their
mental health is tools.
It's just the same as teachingthem to be respectful, I think,
or to be how to walk or, I don'tknow.
(18:36):
It's important when they becomeadults that they know how to
honor how they're feeling andsupport themselves with how to
reclaim that and move forward.
Like, okay, how do I honor it?
How do I move forward?
And we're instilling thatfoundation now so they have it
when they're adults.
Robin (18:53):
I think too about, it's easier to see physical, it's
invisible, it's hard, it'sinvisible.
And I, you know, I present as areally well put together human
being.
Nicole (19:07):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (19:07):
And so frequently it is painful because people are not
seeing all of the effort that ithas taken to be able to present
in that way and even in themoment.
The things that I am doing to beable to exist with others.
Nicole (19:25):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (19:25):
And I think about too, um, I don't remember exactly
when this parenting advice wasgiven to me, but my daughter,
she tends to, to hurt herself alot.
You know, like she just bumpsinto something or what, and it's
this big reaction.
And my instinct is a reactionversus a response where I say.
(19:46):
Well, when I'm really in a lowplace, it's, you know, why did
you do that again?
Or why did, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like there's a, a blame and ashame there, right.
When I'm in a better place, it'swhat happened, and when I'm in
the best place, it's not areaction or trying to look back
on what happened.
It's being right there in themoment and saying, what do you
(20:06):
need?
Do you want me to put my hand onit?
Do you want me to, you know, doyou want a bandaid, like moving
it?
Mm-hmm.
Being present for what is,versus trying to dig up what
happened and, mm-hmm.
That ha.
Working through that hasactually helped me because so
much of my mental healthchallenges have been processed
(20:30):
in therapy and trying to get tothe root.
Mm-hmm.
What is the root?
What is the root?
What is the root?
But more often than not, what Ijust need is to be seen in that
moment.
And it doesn't matter what itwas or why, it was like, let's
just, I'm, I'm worthy.
Of love.
Mm-hmm.
And of compassion just as I amwithout any reasons, and so are
(20:51):
our children.
That's su, that's so powerful.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You nailed it.
And we're not.
I, I, I wonder, and I, I projectthis for myself.
I have a lot of blame.
I'm like, oh my gosh, does mydaughter, does she have anxiety
because I was so stressed when Iwas pregnant or because she's
(21:12):
seen me, you know, and been inthe energy when I was having
mental breakdown.
Um, you know, what, what is it?
And I've tried to, to do so manythings and be so intentional,
and yet I've put that judgmenton myself when the reality is.
Our children.
It's, it's that conversation wehad about missed expectations.
Mm-hmm.
(21:32):
Our children are humans.
Mm-hmm.
They are autonomous beings thathave their own set of gifts and
challenges and are.
What I'm learning is the bestthing that I can do as a mother
is take care of my own health.
(21:53):
To be able to be that safe placethat can sit in the discomfort
and tend to what is
Nicole (22:00):
right
Robin (22:02):
and how we can move forward.
Nicole (22:03):
And what a gift that you are giving her because you are
showing her.
You're not curating a pictureperfect motherhood or adult life
looks like.
So when she grows up, she hasthis unrealistic expectations
that she should, what heremotions should look like.
What she should feel like.
You're, you're giving her thegift of.
(22:25):
What it looks like to be human,what it looks like to heal in
real time and to grow and toverbalize what you need for
support that's a beautiful giftthat you are giving her.
You are showing her the gift ofhow to be that center post for
your home, that heartbeat foryour home, and still you have to
show up for yourself becauseespecially.
(22:47):
As women and mothers, we putourselves on the back burner.
Mm-hmm.
And we put everyone's needsabove our own.
And you're showing her that herneeds are just as important if
not more important than herhousehold because she's the
heartbeat.
She will be the heartbeat of herhome.
And you're giving her thattangible example.
That is a beautiful gift friend.
Robin (23:07):
Beautiful.
Thank you.
And there's a little nuancethere as well that I, it I would
be.
Uh, it would be unfortunate if Iwouldn't speak about that.
I also name for her that whenshe has seen me upset and I, I
guard her gateways and I, butespecially with mm-hmm my dad's
(23:30):
passing and all of the care thatI had to do.
I wanted her to see healthygrief and the process of that,
and I made sure it was veryclear to her that she does not
need to take care of me.
Hmm
Nicole (23:44):
mm-hmm.
Robin (23:45):
Because that codependence can develop very early on.
Mm-hmm.
And the children are notcaretakers of adults.
Right.
Right.
They are not caretakers.
They can, they can bear witnessto what being human is.
Mm-hmm.
But it is a delicate line thatwe walk and I, you know, I,
that's why there's so manydifferent nuances to this
(24:07):
conversation.
Mm-hmm.
And so often it's easier to justnot have the conversation.
Right.
Right.
There's'cause of the very rushof things.
There's like, how do we even getto all of those different
aspects in one?
Well, there's not clear
Nicole (24:18):
answers, so it feels like we're, are we just talking
in, I don't believe we're justtalking in circles, but
sometimes it feels like ifthere's not a clear resolution.
Then what are we, what are wetalking towards?
But like you and I talk about sofrequently, feeling seen is so
powerful and that thatconnection is beautiful.
And that's why we have to havethese conversations because
(24:38):
you're not alone.
Mm-hmm.
It's not just you.
It doesn't make you a bad mom.
You don't need to carry theshame of it.
You are human being.
Mm-hmm.
And we see you.
We're here with you, we're inthe mess, and we're navigating
it right along with you.
Robin (24:52):
Yeah.
And the power, even in thisconversation, you shared how
you're showing up for yourchildren.
And then through that story andconnection, it not only enables
me to be a better mother in theactions that I take, but there
is a piece of my spirit that issoothed.
Mm-hmm.
In knowing that that exists.
(25:13):
Mm-hmm.
And that.
Part of me feels seen and heldbecause I know that it is
possible.
Mm-hmm.
And that's, it's just soimportant for all of us to
remember that it takes courageto have these conversations and
the root of the word courage,Ker is Latin and it means heart.
(25:36):
We often think, does it?
Yes.
I love that.
We often think that couragemeans, you know this, like I
think of the movie 300 and like,oh, we're gonna go to war and be
bad.
Well, it is, but it's the war ofthe heart.
Courage is leading from theheart.
That's the most courageous placeis through vulnerability.
And when we lead as Brene Brownwould.
(25:58):
You know, talk about and studiesas a social scientist, when we
lead with vulnerability andauthenticity, that's the power
of connection.
And that's really that feminine,mothering, nurturing energy that
creates people who have truestrength.
(26:20):
Mm-hmm.
Because when we can.
Just exist in the discomfort andallow people, especially for us,
you know, we start withourselves and then go within our
homes, but when it starts toexpand
Nicole (26:38):
mm-hmm.
And just
Robin (26:38):
allow people to be who they are, there's nothing better
than that.
Nicole (26:45):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (26:46):
When each person is doing that and they're leading with
love mm-hmm.
Instead of.
The, the, the scared fear of howis somebody gonna think of me
and what's that gonna be like,and I'm not okay to show up this
way or whatever it might be.
That is really the sacred,courageous work that helps us to
(27:07):
heal ourselves and our homes andYeah.
Planet.
Yeah.
Not to get too big or anything,you know, but Yeah.
Nicole (27:14):
Yeah.
Just continues to evolve andgrow and.
It's like a little octopus.
Robin (27:20):
Oh, I love that.
I love that vision.
What a great place to remindourselves that we can have these
deep conversations and we canshift into picturing a, an
octopus and a little loveoctopus.
A little love octopus, justreaching it's little tentacles
and suction cups all over theworld.
(27:42):
So to wrap up this conversationfor this episode, remember that
this is one that so many of usneed, but so few feel safe
enough to have, and it's onethat Nicole and I know is it's
gonna come up more.
Mm-hmm.
And we'd love to hear from.
You as to how this might show upin your lives or any parts of
this conversation that not have,not have not only resonated, but
(28:04):
you'd like us to explore morewith courage, leading from our
hearts, remembering that you'renot alone and that this is
courageous work that we're dedoing, even when it doesn't look
strong from the outside.
If this episode has offered yousome comfort, clarity, or even
just a little breath of relief,we hope that you'll share it
(28:26):
with another mom who might becarrying this quiet navigation
of mental health.
Two, you never know who needs tohear that.
They're not the only one.
And if you've found this podcastmeaningful, we'd be so grateful
if you'd scroll down and leaveus a quick rating or review.
It helps other moms to find usand it helps keep these raw real
(28:50):
conversations going.
Now as an extra support, we'regonna link in the show notes
below some resources aroundmental health, but we also
encourage you to download thefree resource.
Seven things to say and not saywhen someone you love is in a
mental health crisis.
Nicole has written and deliveredthat for each of us to be able
(29:12):
to use to help have a tangiblelist that you can even put right
on your refrigerator to rememberthat you are not alone and
here's what you can do tosupport yourself and others.
So thank you for listening.
For staying for thisconversation and for being brave
enough to face the hard stuffwith us.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
(29:34):
Until then, take care of yourmind, your heart, and your
entire beautiful human self.
Nicole (29:41):
Bye guys.
Hey, before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
So take what you need, leave therest.
(30:02):
You never know when you're gonnaneed it or when your group chat
might thank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
virtual village.
What happens when the person's struggling with mental
health in your home is you andwhat happens when it's your
child?
No one hands you a manual forparenting through depression,
anxiety, trauma, or for watchingyour child navigate those same
struggles.
It can be lonely.
It's extremely heavy, and yetit's far more common than we
(00:22):
think.
Welcome to Motherhood and theMessy Middle, where we're
holding space for moms managingmental health from the inside
out in themselves, in theirkids, and in the silence.
That too often surrounds us.
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
(00:43):
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
(01:03):
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
(01:25):
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
Okay, Nicole, today we're talking about something that's
really close to both of ourhearts.
Mm-hmm.
And is part of the reason whywe've connected so deeply, and
that's mm-hmm.
Mental health and motherhood.
Nicole (01:41):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (01:42):
And when we've had this conversation, it's been really
interesting how it's emergedbecause we come at it from two
perspectives.
Mm-hmm.
I would say that the mostfrequently talked about aspect
of mental health in motherhoodis the.
Parent.
Mm-hmm.
Struggling with mental healthwhen it is also children that
(02:05):
emerge mm-hmm.
With mental health concerns.
Nicole (02:08):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (02:09):
So many moms are holding both of those directions
quietly, sometimes both at thesame time.
And today I really wanna talk toyou about how we can unpack
this, or at least start thisconversation mm-hmm.
With the goal of.
Normalizing it.
Let's talk honestly about whatit looks like to mom through
(02:30):
these mental health struggles.
So I guess I'm gonna open todaywith a question to you of, have
you ever had a season where yourown mental health made it hard
to show up as a mom?
Nicole (02:45):
Yeah, I, I love that we're talking about this because
like you said, it's so near anddear to our hearts.
Before we get into it more, Ijust wanna put a little
disclaimer out there that we arenot medical professionals.
This is our own perspective, andif you need medical advice or
input from doctors, please seekthat out from your medical
professionals.
(03:05):
And if you're struggling withyour mental health, you can text
or call 9 8 8 as a resource thatcan help you personally or it
can help you help your kids.
Just a little disclaimer beforewe jump in.
Showing up when for my kids ormy family when I was struggling,
is hard.
And I think a lot of how I showup.
(03:28):
Like everybody,, is because ofmy background and because I was
raised in a Christian homeschoolcommunity, and I also wanna just
preface that I know it'sdifferent now.
The homeschool Christiancommunities are very different
now than they were back in theeighties and nineties.
I, my mom struggled with herdepression and I saw how.
Much.
She tried to hide it because shedidn't have the support of her
(03:50):
friends and the church and theculture just said you didn't
have enough faith, you gottahave more faith.
So, I took a different routewhenever I've struggled of
really being pretty open andvulnerable about it so my kids
could see the, that it's humanand normal and we struggle and
how we can offer support andverbalizing support in order to
(04:12):
get me through the hump.
Now, I will say that I havenever been diagnosed or treated
for anxiety or depression.
So my perspective is muchdifferent than some other moms,
and individuals.
How does that look like for you,Robin, showing up when you're in
the messy middle of strugglingwith your mental health?
Robin (04:33):
Well, where I am with my mental health is that, um, I am
formally diagnosed with anxietyand, um, you know, I'm not
suffering from depression.
I'm always managing the symptomsof complex post-traumatic stress
disorder.
Mm-hmm.
And so for context, um, youknow, I experienced significant
(04:53):
childhood trauma.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I witnessed my mother'spassing.
She was the victim of domesticviolence and.
You say, you know, that we arethe product of, um, what we are
raised around and beyond thetrauma.
I was wrapped in a village thatwas there to help support my
(05:14):
healing and my mental healthrecovery.
Mm-hmm.
Even though I had that and I hadthe privilege of accessing, um,
psychiatrists and then alsocounselors in school, which in a
way is groundbreakingconsidering that I too am a
child of the eighties andnineties.
I find that.
(05:36):
The biggest mental healthstruggles for me came in
adulthood and then in becoming amother.
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (05:44):
So
Robin (05:44):
when I was in the most significant moments of my
struggles, I couldn't reallyidentify that I was actually in
them.
Mm.
And when you couple that withthe undiagnosed perimenopause
that I was going through mm-hmm.
Um, which.
Can make women think thatthey're going crazy in and of
themselves.
It was a very challenging timefor me.
Nicole (06:06):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (06:06):
Now, where I'm at now is that I can speak about it and
I've been able to name my story.
That's part of what has fueledthe connection between us, why I
have built a sole basedbusiness, um, helping others to
normalize what holistic health.
Can look like and what theirpotential can be when we pay
(06:27):
attention to not only our weightand our physical aspects and
attributes, but also our mentaland spiritual because they all
tie in together.
And yet I still have times ofextreme challenge.
Um, and so it's similar to youthat I name that, um, one of the
more complicated pieces for mebe with complex PTSD, is that.
(06:52):
I am dedicated to supporting mydaughter's mental health.
Mm-hmm.
And she does not know how hergrandmother died.
Mm-hmm.
And she doesn't know the detailsof that.
We talk about her angel, grandmaall the time.
Um, but I have been working withmedical professionals to support
my daughter's development andknowing how she is as a highly
(07:13):
sensitive person who has anxietyherself that is diagnosed.
She doesn't, we're actuallyabout to bridge that, that, that
step this summer into mm-hmm.
Letting her into what happenedto her, her grandmother.
Um, with all of that being said,it is a careful path that I
(07:33):
tread as a mother in normalizingwhat I need to do for myself.
So more than speaking about theexact level of.
Anxiety or panic attacks orthings that I have managed in
the past or that can start tocreep up.
I speak openly with my daughterabout being a recovering addict.
(07:56):
Mm-hmm.
And she knows, as an example,last night I had to leave the
home and go to a recoverymeeting in person.
I haven't been to an in-personrecovery meeting in six months,
but last night.
I identified that.
And so my daughter, she evenasked, it was so funny, she's
like, is this in person or justin your office?
(08:18):
'cause she's used to me doingonline meetings.
Mm-hmm.
Um, she knows that I havesupports with a talking, we call
it the talking doctor, you know,our therapist.
Mm-hmm.
And so we've just normalizedthat and I talked to her about
it.
And, um, she's not onlynormalize, we not only
normalize.
The struggle.
We also embrace all of thedifferent parts that I do.
(08:43):
In order for me to be healthy.
So I talk to her about the foodthat I'm eating and how it
impacts my body.
Um, she, you know, will all ofthe sudden put on meditation,
music, and mm-hmm.
And do some different breathingexercises She's told me about at
school when a, another child hasdealt with, um, a panic type of
(09:06):
incident and she's had themidentify what are five things
that you see?
What are two things that yousmell?
Because I've done thoseactivities with her and right
when I can, I model them.
So it's been for me, not onlymy, my mental health has been at
the forefront of, within ourfamily, but then my daughter's
(09:28):
diagnosis has emerged from that.
And so we are reallycollaborating together on what
it looks like and creating safespace, not only in our home,
but.
In the places where she goes andis cared for.
Mm-hmm.
Including like the orthodontist.
Yeah.
Um, you know, she watches meadvocate for her.
(09:50):
Mm-hmm.
When.
I have said, so we need to knowwhat is happening in the next
steps here because that willhelp this experience.
My daughter's highly sensitive.
Um, you know, she has anxietythat she manages.
Can you help describe thisprocess?
And people respond.
Yes.
People want to respond.
They just often don't know how,and so.
Nicole (10:12):
Being, you kind of have to lead them.
Yes.
When you're that advocate, youkind of lead them in.
You set the expectations, you'rekind of telling them what is
actually needed and they justfill in the blanks.
Really?
Robin (10:22):
Mm-hmm.
Nicole (10:23):
Mm-hmm.
It's
Robin (10:24):
powerful.
So.
For, you know, you asked meabout my own mental health, but
then I transitioned into with mydaughter mm-hmm.
And her anxiety and, you know,her sensory processing disorder,
which I think there might be alittle bit of a DHD in there
too.
Mm-hmm.
But we're gonna continue to justmonitor and, and support her as
she is.
Mm-hmm.
And as she grows.
Can you speak to, you have, Ihave this one child.
(10:47):
You have a gaggle of children.
How does I do?
How does, how does mental healthshow up in your household?
Nicole (10:56):
It shows up in a big way.
Um, our youngest struggles withit.
Um, he is diagnosed and treatedfor anxiety and depression and A
DHD.
Um, and that's, he something Idon't, a vulnerable share that
I'll share here that I don't.
Necessarily talk about, often bejust because of I don't like the
(11:18):
judgment that necessarily I, Ianticipate will come, I don't
even know if I'm being judged.
I just anticipate that thejudging will come, is that he
has struggled with that since hewas like seven years old.
And statistically that happens,but you don't hear people talk
about it a lot.
Yeah.
And so.
It was pretty jarring for us.
But the, he's been tocounseling.
(11:40):
We've done the therapies.
He had a wonderful counselor, aplay counselor, and she had a
therapy dog.
And it was really transformativefor him and for us.
'cause she helped teach us alot.
Um.
But it comes out a lot.
So, you know, when he comes homefrom school, he instantly goes,
he has a swing in his room, likea sensory swing, one of those
cloth ones that kind of acocoon.
(12:01):
And we don't, we don't have avery big house, and he has a
pretty small room, but right inthe middle of his room is that
swing.
And every day when he comeshome, he takes a snack and he
gets in his swing with his snackbecause he has to decompress for
the day.
He has.
Been putting his social capacityis overflowing.
He's overstimulated and he goesin his swing every day.
(12:24):
And we talk a lot about mentalhealth.
It's a big, it's predominant inour home.
I'm a mental health advocate.
I work with a nonprofitorganization to help parents
support their kids who arestruggling with their mental
health.
One of my older kids hasstruggled with suicidal
ideations.
And that's something that ouryoungest struggles with as well,
and that's something that I hadto really learn about.
(12:45):
'cause I didn't.
I didn't understand and I had toapologize to my older child too.
Mm-hmm.
Because I got it wrong a lotwhen they were growing up
because I didn't know and Iwasn't talking to anybody about
it, and I, I didn't have theresources and the support that I
needed, so I responded toeverything as if, if it was a
crisis.
But what I learned is there'sdifferent stages and I didn't
(13:07):
know how to identify what stagewe were in, so everything just
became a crisis and.
While, if you don't know that isthe appropriate way to respond,
but through education, I'velearned how to show up better
and in a more supportivecapacity.
And so that filters down to allof our kids because we want,
(13:29):
even if they're not diagnosed,we all have ups and downs and we
all have struggles and there'stools to be gained for all of
our kids.
So it's a very, like even thissummer.
Every day.
It's our mental health matters.
What are we doing for our mentalhealth day?
So for my youngest, withoutschool, he doesn't wanna get
dressed and he'd prefer to stayin bed all day, every day.
(13:50):
You have to get dressed and wehave to open our blinds and
open, let the sunshine in, andyou can stay in your bed for a
certain time, amount of time.
And then we have to get out ofour bed.
So like honoring where he's at,but also encouraging a forward
step.
So a lot of.
Managing mental health for mykids is learning what they need
as individuals and how to showup for them in that way, and I
(14:12):
also learned.
How to get really comfortablewith really uncomfortable
conversations.
Mm-hmm.
And really uncomfortablesituations.
And I learned how to be stilland silent.
You know, when my older childwas in a fetal position, didn't
want me to leave the room, butdidn't want me to touch them.
(14:33):
I had to learn how to just sitthere.
And I couldn't be on my phone.
I, I couldn't have adistraction.
I needed to be readilyavailable, but I couldn't do
anything.
And as a mom, you know how hardthat is when we can't do and we
can't fix, yeah.
Mental health, we can't fix, andthat's really hard.
Uh, but learning how to supportthem.
It helps us feel like we have aplace and helps honor where
(14:57):
they're at.
And I think, like you said,naming it is really important so
that we can learn how to supportit and find the tools that fit
them as individuals.
Robin (15:08):
Oh, I have so much that I wanna say to you, and I'm just
feeling so many things.
Especially the fact that wehaven't met in person, and I
just wanna hug you and hold youright now hearing you speak
about how you are able to showup for your children.
(15:30):
I want you to know that thathelps heal me.
Oh, not just as a mom, but asI'm still this child who just
wants someone to be able to showup for me.
Yeah.
And hold the space.
Yeah.
And it's one of the reasons Iknow, and I have learned that as
(15:53):
women, we are the heartbeats ofour society and as mothers, we
are the heartbeats of our home.
Yeah.
And when we can be that stable.
Post.
Mm-hmm.
For them, while everything elseswirls around, they can hold on
and be grounded and develop whatit is that they need as
(16:14):
individuals in order to manageand grow in their health.
Mm-hmm.
And that is.
That is resilience is being ableto build that inner fitness is
what I call it.
Mm-hmm.
The inner fitness of being ableto not only pick yourself up and
(16:35):
keep moving on, but also beingable to sit in the discomfort to
know that when you pick yourselfup, where is it going?
Where is that next piece goingto be and going to go.
And it's not something that istaught and for most people it is
not something that is.
Just innately known.
Nicole (16:56):
Hmm.
Robin (16:57):
And the more that we are separated from the villages in
which we're meant to be in,which are not just living next
to each other, it's living withand fully seeing each other just
as we are.
The more isolated that we becomeand the less equipped that we
(17:18):
are to know how to handlesituations.
And it's so important that you.
Doing what you're doing for yourfamily, but I am just in awe and
you should be so proud ofyourself for what you're doing
for our world with the Speak Outorganization, helping to empower
families with resources.
(17:39):
Because the other part is, isthat it's a whole spectrum.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
Nicole (17:43):
Yeah.
There's not a one fits all, orit's not just follow this or do
this and it'll work.
It's it, yeah.
It's, it's a variety of things
Robin (17:52):
and
Nicole (17:53):
I.
It's why,
Robin (17:54):
and the mental, the mental health and mental illness
shows up in a variety of ways.
We Right.
Don't have to have a diagnosedmental illness in order to be
suffering from a mental healthaffliction because of whatever
it might be.
Um, I also, well, when we thinkabout as
Nicole (18:13):
us as adults.
Our children are likely going toencounter as, especially as they
become adults, they're going toencounter a hard season, where
they're having to have thatresiliency and they.
Even if they don't have adiagnose, teaching them the
tools of how to show up whenthey're struggling in their
mental health is tools.
It's just the same as teachingthem to be respectful, I think,
or to be how to walk or, I don'tknow.
(18:36):
It's important when they becomeadults that they know how to
honor how they're feeling andsupport themselves with how to
reclaim that and move forward.
Like, okay, how do I honor it?
How do I move forward?
And we're instilling thatfoundation now so they have it
when they're adults.
Robin (18:53):
I think too about, it's easier to see physical, it's
invisible, it's hard, it'sinvisible.
And I, you know, I present as areally well put together human
being.
Nicole (19:07):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (19:07):
And so frequently it is painful because people are not
seeing all of the effort that ithas taken to be able to present
in that way and even in themoment.
The things that I am doing to beable to exist with others.
Nicole (19:25):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (19:25):
And I think about too, um, I don't remember exactly
when this parenting advice wasgiven to me, but my daughter,
she tends to, to hurt herself alot.
You know, like she just bumpsinto something or what, and it's
this big reaction.
And my instinct is a reactionversus a response where I say.
(19:46):
Well, when I'm really in a lowplace, it's, you know, why did
you do that again?
Or why did, right?
Mm-hmm.
Like there's a, a blame and ashame there, right.
When I'm in a better place, it'swhat happened, and when I'm in
the best place, it's not areaction or trying to look back
on what happened.
It's being right there in themoment and saying, what do you
(20:06):
need?
Do you want me to put my hand onit?
Do you want me to, you know, doyou want a bandaid, like moving
it?
Mm-hmm.
Being present for what is,versus trying to dig up what
happened and, mm-hmm.
That ha.
Working through that hasactually helped me because so
much of my mental healthchallenges have been processed
(20:30):
in therapy and trying to get tothe root.
Mm-hmm.
What is the root?
What is the root?
What is the root?
But more often than not, what Ijust need is to be seen in that
moment.
And it doesn't matter what itwas or why, it was like, let's
just, I'm, I'm worthy.
Of love.
Mm-hmm.
And of compassion just as I amwithout any reasons, and so are
(20:51):
our children.
That's su, that's so powerful.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
You nailed it.
And we're not.
I, I, I wonder, and I, I projectthis for myself.
I have a lot of blame.
I'm like, oh my gosh, does mydaughter, does she have anxiety
because I was so stressed when Iwas pregnant or because she's
(21:12):
seen me, you know, and been inthe energy when I was having
mental breakdown.
Um, you know, what, what is it?
And I've tried to, to do so manythings and be so intentional,
and yet I've put that judgmenton myself when the reality is.
Our children.
It's, it's that conversation wehad about missed expectations.
Mm-hmm.
(21:32):
Our children are humans.
Mm-hmm.
They are autonomous beings thathave their own set of gifts and
challenges and are.
What I'm learning is the bestthing that I can do as a mother
is take care of my own health.
(21:53):
To be able to be that safe placethat can sit in the discomfort
and tend to what is
Nicole (22:00):
right
Robin (22:02):
and how we can move forward.
Nicole (22:03):
And what a gift that you are giving her because you are
showing her.
You're not curating a pictureperfect motherhood or adult life
looks like.
So when she grows up, she hasthis unrealistic expectations
that she should, what heremotions should look like.
What she should feel like.
You're, you're giving her thegift of.
(22:25):
What it looks like to be human,what it looks like to heal in
real time and to grow and toverbalize what you need for
support that's a beautiful giftthat you are giving her.
You are showing her the gift ofhow to be that center post for
your home, that heartbeat foryour home, and still you have to
show up for yourself becauseespecially.
(22:47):
As women and mothers, we putourselves on the back burner.
Mm-hmm.
And we put everyone's needsabove our own.
And you're showing her that herneeds are just as important if
not more important than herhousehold because she's the
heartbeat.
She will be the heartbeat of herhome.
And you're giving her thattangible example.
That is a beautiful gift friend.
Robin (23:07):
Beautiful.
Thank you.
And there's a little nuancethere as well that I, it I would
be.
Uh, it would be unfortunate if Iwouldn't speak about that.
I also name for her that whenshe has seen me upset and I, I
guard her gateways and I, butespecially with mm-hmm my dad's
(23:30):
passing and all of the care thatI had to do.
I wanted her to see healthygrief and the process of that,
and I made sure it was veryclear to her that she does not
need to take care of me.
Hmm
Nicole (23:44):
mm-hmm.
Robin (23:45):
Because that codependence can develop very early on.
Mm-hmm.
And the children are notcaretakers of adults.
Right.
Right.
They are not caretakers.
They can, they can bear witnessto what being human is.
Mm-hmm.
But it is a delicate line thatwe walk and I, you know, I,
that's why there's so manydifferent nuances to this
(24:07):
conversation.
Mm-hmm.
And so often it's easier to justnot have the conversation.
Right.
Right.
There's'cause of the very rushof things.
There's like, how do we even getto all of those different
aspects in one?
Well, there's not clear
Nicole (24:18):
answers, so it feels like we're, are we just talking
in, I don't believe we're justtalking in circles, but
sometimes it feels like ifthere's not a clear resolution.
Then what are we, what are wetalking towards?
But like you and I talk about sofrequently, feeling seen is so
powerful and that thatconnection is beautiful.
And that's why we have to havethese conversations because
(24:38):
you're not alone.
Mm-hmm.
It's not just you.
It doesn't make you a bad mom.
You don't need to carry theshame of it.
You are human being.
Mm-hmm.
And we see you.
We're here with you, we're inthe mess, and we're navigating
it right along with you.
Robin (24:52):
Yeah.
And the power, even in thisconversation, you shared how
you're showing up for yourchildren.
And then through that story andconnection, it not only enables
me to be a better mother in theactions that I take, but there
is a piece of my spirit that issoothed.
Mm-hmm.
In knowing that that exists.
(25:13):
Mm-hmm.
And that.
Part of me feels seen and heldbecause I know that it is
possible.
Mm-hmm.
And that's, it's just soimportant for all of us to
remember that it takes courageto have these conversations and
the root of the word courage,Ker is Latin and it means heart.
(25:36):
We often think, does it?
Yes.
I love that.
We often think that couragemeans, you know this, like I
think of the movie 300 and like,oh, we're gonna go to war and be
bad.
Well, it is, but it's the war ofthe heart.
Courage is leading from theheart.
That's the most courageous placeis through vulnerability.
And when we lead as Brene Brownwould.
(25:58):
You know, talk about and studiesas a social scientist, when we
lead with vulnerability andauthenticity, that's the power
of connection.
And that's really that feminine,mothering, nurturing energy that
creates people who have truestrength.
(26:20):
Mm-hmm.
Because when we can.
Just exist in the discomfort andallow people, especially for us,
you know, we start withourselves and then go within our
homes, but when it starts toexpand
Nicole (26:38):
mm-hmm.
And just
Robin (26:38):
allow people to be who they are, there's nothing better
than that.
Nicole (26:45):
Mm-hmm.
Robin (26:46):
When each person is doing that and they're leading with
love mm-hmm.
Instead of.
The, the, the scared fear of howis somebody gonna think of me
and what's that gonna be like,and I'm not okay to show up this
way or whatever it might be.
That is really the sacred,courageous work that helps us to
(27:07):
heal ourselves and our homes andYeah.
Planet.
Yeah.
Not to get too big or anything,you know, but Yeah.
Nicole (27:14):
Yeah.
Just continues to evolve andgrow and.
It's like a little octopus.
Robin (27:20):
Oh, I love that.
I love that vision.
What a great place to remindourselves that we can have these
deep conversations and we canshift into picturing a, an
octopus and a little loveoctopus.
A little love octopus, justreaching it's little tentacles
and suction cups all over theworld.
(27:42):
So to wrap up this conversationfor this episode, remember that
this is one that so many of usneed, but so few feel safe
enough to have, and it's onethat Nicole and I know is it's
gonna come up more.
Mm-hmm.
And we'd love to hear from.
You as to how this might show upin your lives or any parts of
this conversation that not have,not have not only resonated, but
(28:04):
you'd like us to explore morewith courage, leading from our
hearts, remembering that you'renot alone and that this is
courageous work that we're dedoing, even when it doesn't look
strong from the outside.
If this episode has offered yousome comfort, clarity, or even
just a little breath of relief,we hope that you'll share it
(28:26):
with another mom who might becarrying this quiet navigation
of mental health.
Two, you never know who needs tohear that.
They're not the only one.
And if you've found this podcastmeaningful, we'd be so grateful
if you'd scroll down and leaveus a quick rating or review.
It helps other moms to find usand it helps keep these raw real
(28:50):
conversations going.
Now as an extra support, we'regonna link in the show notes
below some resources aroundmental health, but we also
encourage you to download thefree resource.
Seven things to say and not saywhen someone you love is in a
mental health crisis.
Nicole has written and deliveredthat for each of us to be able
(29:12):
to use to help have a tangiblelist that you can even put right
on your refrigerator to rememberthat you are not alone and
here's what you can do tosupport yourself and others.
So thank you for listening.
For staying for thisconversation and for being brave
enough to face the hard stuffwith us.
We'll see you in the nextepisode.
(29:34):
Until then, take care of yourmind, your heart, and your
entire beautiful human self.
Nicole (29:41):
Bye guys.
Hey, before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
So take what you need, leave therest.
(30:02):
You never know when you're gonnaneed it or when your group chat
might thank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
virtual village.
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