July 17, 2025 • 31 mins
Friendship wasn’t supposed to be this complicated.
But somewhere between school drop-offs, emotional overload, and trying to keep up with everyone's needs… it’s easy for friendships to fall to the bottom of your never-ending to-do list.
In this heart-opening episode of Motherhood and the Messy Middle, we dive into the real talk about why making—and keeping—friendships as moms in midlife can feel so hard.
Nicole and Robin open up about their own friendship journeys-what’s worked, what’s hurt, and why they believe we still need each other, even when life gets messy and full.
Whether you’re feeling lonely, in a friendship dry spell, or just need reassurance that you're not the only one navigating this season-this one’s for you.
💛 You’re not too much.
💛 You’re not too late.
💛 And you’re not the only one.
If this episode speaks to you, send it to a friend you love (or want to reconnect with).
And if this podcast has helped you feel less alone, we’d be so grateful for a quick review—it helps more moms find our village.
Thanks for joining us in the Messy Middle!
Ready for more real talk and soulful support? Head to motherhoodandthemessy.com for resources, freebies, and our latest episodes.
Explore the Resource Vault - packed with free tools and more, to support you in every season of motherhood: Click Here
Let’s connect on Instagram:
@robin.wellness | @heygirl_itsnicole | @motherhoodandthemessymiddle
Don’t forget to subscribe, rate, and leave a review-it helps other moms find our virtual village.
This podcast is for moms navigating the real, raw, and redeeming parts of motherhood-and we’re so glad you’re here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
robin (00:02):
Why is it so hard to make and keep friends in midlife,
especially as a mom, we werenever meant to do this alone.
As women, we were wired forconnection for villages, shared
stories and sacred everydaymoments.
And yet in the thick ofmotherhood, when the emotional
load is heavy in the logisticsare just nonstop.
(00:23):
Friendship can quietly slip tothe bottom of the never ending
to-do list.
Welcome to Motherhood and theMessy Middle, where we're diving
into the real talk aboutfinding, keeping, and healing
friendships in this wild,beautiful, and often lonely
middle season of life.
(00:44):
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
(01:05):
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
(01:27):
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
All right, Nicole, let's start with this question.
Why do you think it's so hard tofind a friend in motherhood?
nicole (01:47):
Girl.
I dunno.
I, I dunno, I dunno.
I wish that, I don't know.
It's'cause we're busy.
'cause I honestly, I don't have,my view on friendship right now
is I don't have the capacity togive a new friendship, the time
and effort that it would need togrow.
And the friendships I have areestablished.
(02:09):
So there's gr there's more gracethere because there's 10 years
of friendship there.
Mm-hmm.
So.
She knows me well enough to knowthat if I don't show up or I
don't respond, she's not gonnabe offended.
Mm-hmm.
And she knows my life wellenough to know that I have a lot
going on, or why I'm probablynot answering her text message
(02:30):
or things like that.
And so it doesn't feel as muchpressure.
robin (02:35):
It's interesting because as you were saying that, I'm
like, how did I slide into yourdms and become your friend then?
You know, because I mean.
Well, that has happened for us.
nicole (02:43):
Yes, and I, but I think that it is truly that soul
connection that you and I have.
I think we're very similar inthe ways that we're not similar.
They're very complimentary.
But I also think that you are afriend that leads with grace.
You allow space and you, I, whatI have feel like I've found in
my adult years is.
(03:04):
That not everyone holds spacefor others very well.
It's a very small group ofpeople who can do that, and you
are someone who holds spacereally well, and you also know
how to show up and you rememberthings.
Mm-hmm.
So like you, you, you checkedback in on my dog.
My dog was like throwing up andfalling over.
So we thought something waswrong, but he's fine.
But Robin remembers those thingslike she's, she.
(03:27):
Circles back to them.
Mm.
And so it, it cues in my brainthat it's important to her,
though these little things areimportant enough for that she
remembers.
robin (03:36):
Hmm.
nicole (03:37):
I feel like I'm talking about you in third person, but
I'm talking to the, tolisteners, but like, yeah, I
like it.
My ego's
robin (03:41):
like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but in all seriousness, I.
I have struggled withfriendships and so it's, it's,
thank you for sharing thatfeedback with me.
And what comes up for me is thiswhole idea of we don't teach,
um, emotional intelligence.
nicole (03:58):
Right.
robin (03:58):
And it is something that I am strong in because of my
trauma background mm-hmm.
That I had to really learn aboutmy emotions, how to sometimes
regulate them.
Mm-hmm.
But also I was raised as an onlychild.
nicole (04:15):
Mm-hmm.
robin (04:15):
I was engaging with adults.
nicole (04:18):
Yeah.
You were around a lot of adults.
robin (04:19):
Yeah, and I also was a traumatized child, so I was
spending a lot of my life in adissociated state where it was,
um, easy to be able to look athow to engage with people.
But I truly love people.
Like I love people, and I gettold all the time that I get
(04:41):
told all the time that peopleappreciate that and that they.
Don't meet a lot of people likeme who are just like, I don't
really do small talk.
I just go straight in.
I, I'm ready.
I'm here for it.
That has shown up in my life.
Like I've even had a neighborfriend who I had like a coffee
chat with, and she shared.
(05:02):
S vulnerable things that shedidn't share with anyone else
that were in real timehappening.
nicole (05:08):
This, I'm the same way.
We very, and I'm just like,where?
robin (05:10):
Okay.
I, but I held the space.
Right.
And I didn't tell anyone aboutit.
Right.
Because like, it's not, it's notmy business to do.
Right.
But how that conflicts with whatI actually see in friendships is
yes, they fade and yes, peopledon't reciprocate that for me
and right.
I like, I'm one of those, like,I think of myself as like a
(05:32):
puppy dog, and I'm just so happyto meet everyone and see you.
And I just have this connectionand then it's like people don't
follow through with it.
And now I'm standing aloneagain, even though I just had
this great interaction and thatburned me like bad a lot of
times.
Um, and now I'm just in a stagein my life where, yeah.
(05:55):
I don't have time to worry aboutother people.
nicole (05:59):
Right.
robin (06:00):
I only have time to love them for who they are and how
they are when they show up andhopefully they keep showing up.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what's happened withyou and I?
nicole (06:08):
Yeah.
You and I are very similar.
My.
Just the other day, my middleson was reminding me about how
when we were on a road trip onetime and I was buying us four
Gatorades, how the cashier toldme her, I knew about her
marriage, how many kids she had,why she moved there, why she
left, where she was, the debtthat she was in, the death of
her parent, how she cared forthem, and my sons walked away.
(06:30):
And they're like, okay, I seewhy you don't like to talk to
people.
And it's not that I don't liketo talk to people, it's, but
it's that I, it's so intense.
Yeah.
It's intense.
Mm-hmm.
And when I, when someone'stelling you, don't just walk
away, I hold space for them.
I listen and I affirm them or Idon't know what, what, whatever
they need in that moment.
And then when it's safe, I walkaway.
But like that makes.
Social encounters sometimesreally intimidating for me
(06:53):
because that happens veryfrequently and it was the first
time my boys had everexperienced it with me.
Interesting.
And they were like, oh, wellthat's
robin (07:00):
real.
Yeah.
nicole (07:01):
I can see why you get nervous.
robin (07:03):
Yeah.
I'm gonna, I don't know ifyou've ever known this.
Trick, but I learned it from oneof my friends who has a DHD and
I have a lot of A DHD symptoms,so I'm gonna hold this finger to
remember what I wanna circleback towards.
If I forget, that's gonna bereally embarrassing, but I wanna
circle back with something withthat.
But I do need to ask you, areyou an introvert or an
extrovert?
nicole (07:21):
I would say I'm more intro.
Well, I don't, isn't there?
Is there a way I It's,
robin (07:25):
it's AM and Oh, I never say it right.
Vert Vert is both.
Yeah.
nicole (07:30):
Yeah.
I can be both.
It really depends on who.
If it's a social gathering whereI don't know anyone.
No.
Count me out.
My parents moved here to Boiseto be near us a couple years
ago, and my mom is extremelyextroverted.
Mm.
And the first time I, I went toa gathering with her and I told
her I will, I will not go inthat line and, and talk to all
(07:51):
of those people.
I will sit here and I'll wait.
If you would like to go and, andplease don't invite me to this
again, because it was like a biggathering and she was out
fluttering around.
She didn't know anybody.
She was meeting everybody and Iwas like, I wanna leave.
But if I know people, then I am,I'm good.
But I.
Uh, so I don't know.
(08:12):
And it's a lot of that isbecause I'm, there's no small
talk.
Mm-hmm.
And I, what I have found is thatnot, like you said, not everyone
can hold space and I end upfeeling a little bit like a
circus.
Mm.
They're just there for theentertainment of my circus, and
I don't wanna sell tickets to mycircus.
Not everybody gets to come tothe show.
(08:34):
Yeah.
Like it's a circus, I'll claimit, but not everybody gets to
come to the show.
I mean, that's such
robin (08:39):
a powerful thing for us as mothers, but especially as
women like.
We get to choose, yeah, whocomes to our show.
I found that that out's a hardway That's about worth and
power, and to me, that's reallywhat I'm stepping into as I am
in my forties, as I am reallyembracing.
(09:01):
You know, I'm in menopause, butwhat I've learned from
perimenopause and beyond, as I'mdoing work to learn about what
happens to women during thattime, and it's a really powerful
time because we're stepping intoourselves, right?
And that's when we can makethese soul connections that I
think you and I have beendabbling in or experiencing.
Yeah.
Quite frequently.
Um, when we do meet in person,because for those of you who
(09:23):
don't remember, we have not metin person.
We can't wait for different timezones, but if we ever go to a
social event together, I wantyou to know I am like the best
wingman that you can possiblyhave.
I could see that.
nicole (09:36):
I could see that
robin (09:37):
I, it's a really great example is that my husband is
finally starting now.
We're about to celebrate 16years of marriage.
We've been together.
Mm-hmm.
For almost 25.
He is finally picking up.
What I've been teaching him andmodeling.
And one of the things that I dowhen I go to work events with
him, social events, is I, uh,introduce myself to people and
(10:01):
I, right away I forwardly say,hi, my name's Robin.
What's your name?
And then they tell me their namebecause he often forgets
people's names.
Ah,
nicole (10:10):
yeah.
robin (10:11):
So then I, I literally am like weaving this thread and I
say people's names a lot.
Um, I actually have done thisassessment, it's called the
Strengths Finder.
When I was on the leadershipteam, we all did it to be able
to know our strengths.
So people who do you know nowwhat's more like cutting edge or
whatever, and well known as likeEnneagram and um, sure.
(10:34):
Those types of things, right?
But this was in my professionallife, it was StrengthsFinder and
my number one was connector.
And how I describe that is if Igo to a party, I will connect
people and at the end of it, I'mlike standing alone because I
have created, I literallyintroduced people.
I remember those facts.
You do it.
nicole (10:53):
You do it digitally from a distance.
Robin has literally connected mewith another parenting coach in
Minnesota.
Oh my gosh.
You're right.
I, I forgot that I did that.
Yes, yes you did.
You went to a networking eventand then you connected us and
like you put us on an emailthread together and we totally
had a phone conversation.
(11:14):
And when you and I first met.
It was through one other person.
Yeah.
It was like you created thatconnection.
So yes, you're gonna, from, fromeven digital perspective,
robin (11:24):
my mind just sees connections and that's even like
all of the work with holisticwellness, holistic weight loss.
I don't see them as singularthings.
I, I see these like glimmeringpieces of people and I'm like,
oh, you'd really like thisperson or this person.
I just, there's too, I have beenthrough too much.
Fear and trauma and the depthsof despair to spend any more
(11:51):
time doing anything other thanjust like living in the light.
Mm-hmm.
And seeing that light in otherpeople.
And that's was the finger that Iwas holding.
Which by the way, for those ofyou who can't see, it was not
the middle finger, just so youknow.
Um, have you heard of the termLightworker?
No.
So it's a term in a lot of likethe woo spaces where people are
(12:14):
more into, you know, like angelnumbers and Oracle card decks
and all that kind of stuff.
I really resonate with itbecause when I learned what a
lightworker is, I'm like, oh mygosh, I'm one of those.
But it is, uh, a lightworker isanyone who.
Shines their light and otherpeople see it and help bring
(12:35):
really, you know, for you as aChristian, it's bringing
Christ's message to the earth.
Yeah, yeah.
And there is an energeticcomponent of that.
And many of us that arelightworkers are also empaths.
And so it's, uh, it's withinyour subtle energy body that we
even have.
Your subtle energy body is justthe unseen.
(12:56):
We have the physical body, andthen we have the subtle energy
body.
Okay.
And we all know what it feelslike to enter a room and feel
like something's off or, oh, youknow, like the vibe gets raised.
Light workers just have thisnatural magnetic attraction and
one of the most.
Powerful and profound examplesthat I have in my life.
(13:17):
I'm for sure.
Just like you, people just spillthings.
Mm-hmm.
And I am there for it.
But it was one that many peoplewere able to witness and it was
wild.
My daughter's school has anannual family fun night.
Okay.
And there were, I am not joking,like 300 people inside of this
(13:37):
gym with bouncy houses.
And it was an elementary schoolbecause it was supposed to be
outside and the weather wasn'tgood.
nicole (13:44):
Oh.
robin (13:45):
So imagine how chaotic that is.
nicole (13:47):
Yeah, that sounds awful.
robin (13:48):
I struggle with.
My sensory experiences now, soI'm a little bit dysregulated as
that's all happening.
Um, but all of a sudden I lookdown and a little girl who is
just in tears looking up at me,and it is a neighbor that I, a
neighbor girl that I kind ofknow and have seen a couple
(14:09):
times.
She found me in the middle ofthat crowd because she knew that
I.
Would I literally swept her up.
Picked her up, held her, yeah.
And then immediately found hermom.
That's an example.
Not with like a conversation,but that same thing where she
could've, she could've went,there were so many other people
that she passed by in order tofind me.
(14:31):
Mm-hmm.
And.
It's like we have this justnatural, safe place, you know?
Mm-hmm.
That we, we have, which makes iteven more complicated for me
when I'm like, why can't I, youknow, keep right friends and
stuff.
But one of the reasons I thinkthat we've been able to be
friends too, is, um, and developour relationship is all of the
different ways that we cancommunicate now.
Right?
So we're texting, we're MarcoPing, we're, you know.
(14:54):
In dms of mm-hmm.
Multiple platforms.
Mm-hmm.
And honestly, that's how I amkeeping the friendships with
even people who live 10 minutesaway from me that are same.
My closest friends,
nicole (15:06):
same.
My mom really brought to light.
Something about me that I don'tknow if I would've realized for
myself, but she said that Ihave, I'm a much more available
person, um, digitally, like,because I will, I'll stay
connected.
I'll, I'll send a Marco Polo andI'm a verbal processor.
I, I could send you a hundredMarco Polos a day, like I'll
(15:27):
tell you my whole life story ina day and I'll text you or I'll
DM you, but carving out time.
In a day to meet for coffee isso much more challenging this
season because like we've talkedabout before, even with older
kids, it's not slowing down.
No.
My husband and I both were laidoff a couple weeks ago.
Oh yeah.
And so we, but we said to eachother today, like, what would we
(15:50):
do if we had jobs?
These kids need rides everywherebecause our 16-year-old is not
driving yet.
The amount of our day is justfilled up with camps, taking
them to the movies, taking ouroldest to work like the,
robin (16:03):
it's a lot of energy.
And then full job.
Your people, I mean, you'repeopled out even when it's
people who fill your cup.
nicole (16:09):
Right?
So it's hard to carve.
So that's affecting a lot of therelationships is that time.
Are other relationships able toshow up as easily?
Hmm.
With like the Marco Polos or thetext messages, because I have
some friends who that that's nottheir form of, that's, yeah,
right.
It doesn't work for them.
So then how, I mean, not that wehave the answers.
Well, they have
robin (16:29):
to show up with grace.
I mean, that's what you startedwith when you were, you know,
telling me how wonderful I am.
Thank you.
Um, welcome.
You are, but well, thank you.
Um.
But it is about just havinggrace and compassion for mm-hmm.
Other people.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm curious,'cause thisshows up for me, I will reach
out to people randomly mm-hmm.
(16:51):
That are in my past and it just.
I just pick up where we leftoff.
Or, I have a best friend, he'sbeen my best friend since
kindergarten.
nicole (17:01):
That's impressive.
robin (17:03):
I know because we're old.
Like it's I, it's my 25th highschool graduation anniversary.
Awesome.
So when we add in, you know,another 13 years or whatever
from kindergarten, that'sreally, it's really something.
nicole (17:18):
Yeah.
robin (17:18):
And we do ebb and flow.
Um, and he lives in Milwaukeewhere I grew up and I'm in the
Twin Cities in Minnesota and hedoes not really travel that much
anymore.
So it's very few and far betweenthat we see each other.
But there is something so sacredin that, you know, he grew up
with my dad.
nicole (17:38):
Yeah.
robin (17:38):
And, um, my other, you know, best friend is from high
school and she went on vacationswith my family.
Mm-hmm.
And.
It's, that's really incredible.
But there's also these more likeperiphery friends.
Mm-hmm.
That it's the same thing whereif I, I would have no, I have no
ill feelings towards them.
Right.
I would just love to see, justbecause we follow, yeah.
(18:01):
Distance happens.
That happens.
Life happens.
It doesn't mean that you're bador I'm bad.
It just happens.
Let's enjoy each other if we doget an opportunity to be
together.
nicole (18:09):
Yeah.
Something that we should touchon too, it just was part.
Friendships is friendshipbreakups like you were talking
about, like friendship distance,and that does happen.
I was trying to
robin (18:18):
avoid that conversation
nicole (18:20):
call.
robin (18:20):
No, we said we were gonna talk about it all, so, okay.
Like how do
nicole (18:23):
you, how have you handled those?
robin (18:26):
Oh, well when you say that I have.
A couple that come.
Mm-hmm.
Really, really right.
And they, they hurt my gut andmy heart.
Um, not well, I don't handlethem well.
I don't handle them well.
The most recent one was actuallysomeone that not.
Not only was a friend, um, butwe met in recovery.
(18:51):
Um, I'm a recovering addict andshe was a sponsor of mine for a
little while.
And while I was transitioningsponsors at that time, and then
during COVID, um, we would gettogether frequently.
And at the time she had, um, anonly child and I, I had an only
(19:11):
child and it was reallybeautiful.
And she was working a lot on,um, herself and healing some
different relationships.
And I, I noticed, you know, thatshe was talking about how she
was just cutting people out ofher life and that she would
essentially ghost them and blockthem from things.
I mean, we're talking likefamily members and stuff like
(19:32):
that.
And, and yikes, I gave, youknow, I didn't, I didn't think
it would happen to me and yeah,I.
Thought it was just be, it waspart of her healing journey and
that these people had all doneher wrong.
And in her perception, that isexactly what happened.
nicole (19:47):
Yeah.
Now
robin (19:47):
why it hurts is because part of.
How I show up in the world andwork on my health and alignment
is that I don't wanna do damage
nicole (20:01):
right to
robin (20:02):
anybody.
Right.
And I have had to work so deeplyon what forgiveness means on a
soul level and how you show upfor people and in her
perception.
I was demanding too much of ourfriendship, and she kept, you
know, blowing me off when we'dhave an a, a time that we were
going to get together and Icalled her out on it, and I, not
(20:24):
in a mean way, I just said, Hey,it, you know, the next time that
we make plans, like I'verearranged to do things, I, I
wanted, I wanna get together.
I thought that we were reallyclose friends and she told me
that, you know, I was.
Obsessed with her and that Iwas, um, we weren't as close as
(20:44):
I was thinking.
Mm-hmm.
And that, how could I put thatkind of pressure on the
friendship?
And that really made me takepause.
nicole (20:52):
Yeah.
robin (20:52):
Um, and then she cut me out completely.
I mean, I email blocked evenlike everything.
Oh wow.
And, um, it was very, veryhurtful.
Yeah.
Um, and.
I just, I forgive her because I,I honestly wanna apologize for
(21:13):
anything that I did.
Yeah.
That sh showed up in a way that,that hurt her.
That was never my intention.
Do you think that you
nicole (21:19):
did, do you look back and think that you did do
anything wrong?
And would you change it movinginto a different friendship, or
do you feel like yourcommunication that she just
wasn't prepared to hear and thatyou needed to be true to
yourself by communicating?
robin (21:34):
I, one thing that I'm learning and you're actually
teaching me is that it's okay tonot be best friends with
everyone.
Yeah.
And I do think that there wasthat like puppy dog aspect of me
where I just like love so hardand she was, yeah.
And we were really, were like,we were in alignment with so
many things.
nicole (21:52):
Mm-hmm.
robin (21:52):
And that's what hurt.
The worst about it.
Yeah.
And I can understand from herperspective how she mm-hmm.
As a person who needed a lot ofalone time and distance and all
of these, and she, you know, ifshe had a slight headache, like
she wouldn't sacrifice thenshowing up even if it was a
commitment that we had madeweeks before.
(22:15):
Right.
And, um, I appreciate that abouther Now.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
nicole (22:22):
Yeah.
robin (22:22):
I, IWI, I don't want her necessarily back in my life.
Right.
I just wish that I could makeamends with her.
Yeah.
Um, and sometimes amends is notneeded by directly apologizing
to a person.
It can be just by giving thatspace.
(22:42):
Um, so there's still somethingfor me there that it's about my
own peace of mind.
But what about you?
Have you had a falling
nicole (22:51):
out?
Oh, for sure, for sure.
I wish I had none, but also thatwouldn't make me human that, but
yeah, there's two that I'vereally, yeah, they, it was super
painful and I think, were theyrecent?
Um, no, the most recent ones wasprobably two years ago.
Before that, it was, gosh, whenmy daughter was 17.
(23:13):
Um, and, you know, I think bothI, what I learned from it, I can
look back and takeaccountability in that like, my
communication wasn't great.
I could have done better, um, inthe first breakup.
The first breakup was thehardest in the sense that I, I
felt like I had communicated thebest that I could with the
(23:34):
skills I had at the time.
Mm.
And it was through one of thedarkest seasons of parenthood
and I expressed that and andliterally said, I don't know who
I am anymore.
Who I was before, no longerexists.
This pain is transformative andI don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know how to moveforward.
I don't, I'm lost.
(23:56):
And the reaction was.
When you're back to your oldself, let me know.
Mm.
While it was super hard in thatfriendship, it was so jarring to
be met with, I cannot do thisnew version of you.
That it almost was like, that'sgood.
That's good closure.
Yeah.
Because this is now who I am.
I wish it wasn't because I wishI didn't go through this painful
(24:19):
experience, but I did.
And so I, it's heartbreaking,but then like learning from it.
And I think that's what makes usbetter friends as we move
forward.
And also helps us recognize,like you said, not everyone is
there.
It's friendships have seasonsand they have timeframes, and
that friendships can fall indifferent categories.
(24:41):
They don't all have to be ourbest friends and they can serve
different parts of ourmotherhood journey.
Different friendships servedifferent parts.
I think, like I have my soccermom, friends.
Mm-hmm.
And I have my, the friends thatare, you know, my, my older
son's best friend's moms and youknow, that's our connection
piece.
And our friendship doesn't gomuch farther than soccer.
(25:03):
But I love my soccer moms on thesoccer, the sidelines.
Yeah.
And so I just have thesedifferent categories of friends
and that feels.
And I have my handful of bestfriends.
I have two that have beenaround, so I think they're
sticking around for quite awhile.
And then I have you who I've metin the last couple years, and I
have one other friend who I'vegotten close with in the last
(25:24):
year, but that's about thecapacity I have.
Mm-hmm.
To go deeper.
Mm-hmm.
And then I just have thecategories.
robin (25:31):
Yeah.
I really appreciate you justnaming that.
I, I don't think that we name itenough.
Um.
My perception before reallybecoming close with you, and you
honestly, you know, have coachedme in that just thinking of
friends and things in adifferent way.
(25:53):
It was that if I put people incategories prior to where I'm at
now, I thought that that wascallous and that I thought that
it was, um.
That it was just not okay for meto do.
Um, but I have
nicole (26:11):
learned, I think for you and I, it helps us like with the
emotional connection and releaseand expectation
robin (26:15):
boundaries.
Right.
And that has been something thathas been so important in my
transformation and the energeticboundaries because we, we.
We can do all of the things, butnot all at one time.
And that includes all of thedifferent components of
(26:37):
relationships and what itrequires to nurture and mm-hmm.
Sustain them.
And you know, honestly, like ourfriendship started because we
were both.
Being called and passionateabout building a business.
And we were doing it assolopreneurs.
As mompreneurs.
Mm-hmm.
And I, as the connector mm-hmm.
Knew that I neededaccountability and I wanted to
(27:00):
do this with other people.
And we started doing that andthen it grew and then we've
found a, to continue to growthat friendship mm-hmm.
While fulfilling our missionaround making.
About around being alightworker, see?
Mm-hmm.
See Yes.
Circles back to that finger thatI was holding.
Yes.
That's why I also hang out withother women who have Yes.
(27:22):
All sorts of neurodivergence.
'cause we, we figure out how tonavigate this world.
Yes.
And that's part of it too, isthat the older that I've been
getting, the more that the wiserI'm getting, the more I'm
getting to really know myselfand.
Knowing who, who, who my peopleare and well, and I
nicole (27:41):
think, go ahead.
I'll hold my finger.
robin (27:43):
No, no, you, well, don't pull your, you said don't pull
your finger now unless you'rearound your boys.
Something you said or my littlegirl.
'cause she really likes thatkind of stuff too.
Let's be real.
nicole (27:54):
Something you said triggered a thought for me in
that the older that I get, themore confident I am and who I
am.
And the more I can recognizethat I might not be a good
friend for you.
Someone might wanna be a friend,with me and go deeper.
And I can know that I'm probablynot a good matchup for you.
So sometimes I can recognizethat it's okay that we don't
have more than a surface level,surface level friendship, um,
(28:17):
because I recognize that mypersonality may, may not jive
with your personality, and thattakes a lot wrong with that,
robin (28:24):
and that takes a lot of strength and it's really, I
admire that so much.
I, I hope to be like you somedaywhen I grow up.
What a great place to wrap upthis episode.
I also wanna plant the seed withyou, Nicole.
As we were talking, there aresome aspects around family and
(28:45):
family dynamics and how as we'retransforming, and those people
don't necessarily go away in thesame ways.
And so, you know, boundaries,those are all, um, things that I
wanna explore together and learnfrom together and share with
others.
But, you know.
If you're in a season offriendship that feels dry or
lonely, please hear this.
(29:05):
This is a message from Nicoleand I.
You are not weird.
Or maybe you are and that's okaytoo.
That's okay.
We're weird.
We're weird.
Yeah.
And we, you find your weirdoseventually.
You don't need more than a hand.
Full of'em.
Like that's all.
You can just hold that finger,right?
Yes.
Just hold a couple of thosefingers.
Just know that you're not alone.
(29:26):
Especially as we navigate this,we thought it was gonna end
maybe in middle school orteenage years.
No, doesn't, there is doesn't.
We're gonna just keep going.
Keep going.
So making and keepingfriendships as a grown woman and
in motherhood, it is hard, butit is also beautiful, and we do
need each other.
Mm-hmm.
And it's never, ever, ever toolate to start again.
(29:46):
So maybe today is the day thatyou send a message, a message to
someone.
Maybe it's a text or a MarcoPolo that you wanna reach out to
reconnect.
Or maybe it's the day that youreach out to a new friend,
whatever it might be.
It could even be that you wannashare this episode with them.
What a great opportunity for youto be able to.
(30:09):
Connect, and as you know, we aretrying to grow this virtual
village, so we appreciate thatconnection as well as we'd be so
grateful if you left a review.
And, um, alike, it grows ourmission to help moms normalize
the mess and embrace themiracles, and it helps those
other moms find us and maybe youeven find a friend.
(30:29):
Mm-hmm.
So cheers to healingfriendships, finding new ones,
and also learning to be a betterfriend.
Yeah.
Thank you Nicole, for being myfriend.
Thank you for being my friend.
All right ladies, we'll see younext week.
Bye guys.
Hey, before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
(30:52):
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
So take what you need, leave therest.
You never know when you're gonnaneed it or when your group chat
might thank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
(31:15):
virtual village.
Why is it so hard to make and keep friends in midlife,
especially as a mom, we werenever meant to do this alone.
As women, we were wired forconnection for villages, shared
stories and sacred everydaymoments.
And yet in the thick ofmotherhood, when the emotional
load is heavy in the logisticsare just nonstop.
(00:23):
Friendship can quietly slip tothe bottom of the never ending
to-do list.
Welcome to Motherhood and theMessy Middle, where we're diving
into the real talk aboutfinding, keeping, and healing
friendships in this wild,beautiful, and often lonely
middle season of life.
(00:44):
Welcome to motherhood and theMessy Middle where grade school
meets grown kids.
Hot flashes meet holy fire, andno topic is too messy for this
village.
I'm Robin.
One half of the voice behindthis podcast.
Nicole and I are two moms whoslid into each other's dms and
built a virtual village where weare inviting you in into our
(01:05):
honest, healing, and oftenhilarious conversations.
Help you feel not so alone.
In the beautiful chaos ofmotherhood and midlife, we talk
about what it really means tomother to grow, to fall apart
and rebuild spiritually,emotionally, hormonally, and
sometimes all before breakfast.
So whether you're in the thickof motherhood, facing
(01:27):
perimenopause, praying hard, orjust tired of pretending, you're
fine.
This face is for you.
Let's dive in.
All right, Nicole, let's start with this question.
Why do you think it's so hard tofind a friend in motherhood?
nicole (01:47):
Girl.
I dunno.
I, I dunno, I dunno.
I wish that, I don't know.
It's'cause we're busy.
'cause I honestly, I don't have,my view on friendship right now
is I don't have the capacity togive a new friendship, the time
and effort that it would need togrow.
And the friendships I have areestablished.
(02:09):
So there's gr there's more gracethere because there's 10 years
of friendship there.
Mm-hmm.
So.
She knows me well enough to knowthat if I don't show up or I
don't respond, she's not gonnabe offended.
Mm-hmm.
And she knows my life wellenough to know that I have a lot
going on, or why I'm probablynot answering her text message
(02:30):
or things like that.
And so it doesn't feel as muchpressure.
robin (02:35):
It's interesting because as you were saying that, I'm
like, how did I slide into yourdms and become your friend then?
You know, because I mean.
Well, that has happened for us.
nicole (02:43):
Yes, and I, but I think that it is truly that soul
connection that you and I have.
I think we're very similar inthe ways that we're not similar.
They're very complimentary.
But I also think that you are afriend that leads with grace.
You allow space and you, I, whatI have feel like I've found in
my adult years is.
(03:04):
That not everyone holds spacefor others very well.
It's a very small group ofpeople who can do that, and you
are someone who holds spacereally well, and you also know
how to show up and you rememberthings.
Mm-hmm.
So like you, you, you checkedback in on my dog.
My dog was like throwing up andfalling over.
So we thought something waswrong, but he's fine.
But Robin remembers those thingslike she's, she.
(03:27):
Circles back to them.
Mm.
And so it, it cues in my brainthat it's important to her,
though these little things areimportant enough for that she
remembers.
robin (03:36):
Hmm.
nicole (03:37):
I feel like I'm talking about you in third person, but
I'm talking to the, tolisteners, but like, yeah, I
like it.
My ego's
robin (03:41):
like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, but in all seriousness, I.
I have struggled withfriendships and so it's, it's,
thank you for sharing thatfeedback with me.
And what comes up for me is thiswhole idea of we don't teach,
um, emotional intelligence.
nicole (03:58):
Right.
robin (03:58):
And it is something that I am strong in because of my
trauma background mm-hmm.
That I had to really learn aboutmy emotions, how to sometimes
regulate them.
Mm-hmm.
But also I was raised as an onlychild.
nicole (04:15):
Mm-hmm.
robin (04:15):
I was engaging with adults.
nicole (04:18):
Yeah.
You were around a lot of adults.
robin (04:19):
Yeah, and I also was a traumatized child, so I was
spending a lot of my life in adissociated state where it was,
um, easy to be able to look athow to engage with people.
But I truly love people.
Like I love people, and I gettold all the time that I get
(04:41):
told all the time that peopleappreciate that and that they.
Don't meet a lot of people likeme who are just like, I don't
really do small talk.
I just go straight in.
I, I'm ready.
I'm here for it.
That has shown up in my life.
Like I've even had a neighborfriend who I had like a coffee
chat with, and she shared.
(05:02):
S vulnerable things that shedidn't share with anyone else
that were in real timehappening.
nicole (05:08):
This, I'm the same way.
We very, and I'm just like,where?
robin (05:10):
Okay.
I, but I held the space.
Right.
And I didn't tell anyone aboutit.
Right.
Because like, it's not, it's notmy business to do.
Right.
But how that conflicts with whatI actually see in friendships is
yes, they fade and yes, peopledon't reciprocate that for me
and right.
I like, I'm one of those, like,I think of myself as like a
(05:32):
puppy dog, and I'm just so happyto meet everyone and see you.
And I just have this connectionand then it's like people don't
follow through with it.
And now I'm standing aloneagain, even though I just had
this great interaction and thatburned me like bad a lot of
times.
Um, and now I'm just in a stagein my life where, yeah.
(05:55):
I don't have time to worry aboutother people.
nicole (05:59):
Right.
robin (06:00):
I only have time to love them for who they are and how
they are when they show up andhopefully they keep showing up.
Mm-hmm.
And that's what's happened withyou and I?
nicole (06:08):
Yeah.
You and I are very similar.
My.
Just the other day, my middleson was reminding me about how
when we were on a road trip onetime and I was buying us four
Gatorades, how the cashier toldme her, I knew about her
marriage, how many kids she had,why she moved there, why she
left, where she was, the debtthat she was in, the death of
her parent, how she cared forthem, and my sons walked away.
(06:30):
And they're like, okay, I seewhy you don't like to talk to
people.
And it's not that I don't liketo talk to people, it's, but
it's that I, it's so intense.
Yeah.
It's intense.
Mm-hmm.
And when I, when someone'stelling you, don't just walk
away, I hold space for them.
I listen and I affirm them or Idon't know what, what, whatever
they need in that moment.
And then when it's safe, I walkaway.
But like that makes.
Social encounters sometimesreally intimidating for me
(06:53):
because that happens veryfrequently and it was the first
time my boys had everexperienced it with me.
Interesting.
And they were like, oh, wellthat's
robin (07:00):
real.
Yeah.
nicole (07:01):
I can see why you get nervous.
robin (07:03):
Yeah.
I'm gonna, I don't know ifyou've ever known this.
Trick, but I learned it from oneof my friends who has a DHD and
I have a lot of A DHD symptoms,so I'm gonna hold this finger to
remember what I wanna circleback towards.
If I forget, that's gonna bereally embarrassing, but I wanna
circle back with something withthat.
But I do need to ask you, areyou an introvert or an
extrovert?
nicole (07:21):
I would say I'm more intro.
Well, I don't, isn't there?
Is there a way I It's,
robin (07:25):
it's AM and Oh, I never say it right.
Vert Vert is both.
Yeah.
nicole (07:30):
Yeah.
I can be both.
It really depends on who.
If it's a social gathering whereI don't know anyone.
No.
Count me out.
My parents moved here to Boiseto be near us a couple years
ago, and my mom is extremelyextroverted.
Mm.
And the first time I, I went toa gathering with her and I told
her I will, I will not go inthat line and, and talk to all
(07:51):
of those people.
I will sit here and I'll wait.
If you would like to go and, andplease don't invite me to this
again, because it was like a biggathering and she was out
fluttering around.
She didn't know anybody.
She was meeting everybody and Iwas like, I wanna leave.
But if I know people, then I am,I'm good.
But I.
Uh, so I don't know.
(08:12):
And it's a lot of that isbecause I'm, there's no small
talk.
Mm-hmm.
And I, what I have found is thatnot, like you said, not everyone
can hold space and I end upfeeling a little bit like a
circus.
Mm.
They're just there for theentertainment of my circus, and
I don't wanna sell tickets to mycircus.
Not everybody gets to come tothe show.
(08:34):
Yeah.
Like it's a circus, I'll claimit, but not everybody gets to
come to the show.
I mean, that's such
robin (08:39):
a powerful thing for us as mothers, but especially as
women like.
We get to choose, yeah, whocomes to our show.
I found that that out's a hardway That's about worth and
power, and to me, that's reallywhat I'm stepping into as I am
in my forties, as I am reallyembracing.
(09:01):
You know, I'm in menopause, butwhat I've learned from
perimenopause and beyond, as I'mdoing work to learn about what
happens to women during thattime, and it's a really powerful
time because we're stepping intoourselves, right?
And that's when we can makethese soul connections that I
think you and I have beendabbling in or experiencing.
Yeah.
Quite frequently.
Um, when we do meet in person,because for those of you who
(09:23):
don't remember, we have not metin person.
We can't wait for different timezones, but if we ever go to a
social event together, I wantyou to know I am like the best
wingman that you can possiblyhave.
I could see that.
nicole (09:36):
I could see that
robin (09:37):
I, it's a really great example is that my husband is
finally starting now.
We're about to celebrate 16years of marriage.
We've been together.
Mm-hmm.
For almost 25.
He is finally picking up.
What I've been teaching him andmodeling.
And one of the things that I dowhen I go to work events with
him, social events, is I, uh,introduce myself to people and
(10:01):
I, right away I forwardly say,hi, my name's Robin.
What's your name?
And then they tell me their namebecause he often forgets
people's names.
Ah,
nicole (10:10):
yeah.
robin (10:11):
So then I, I literally am like weaving this thread and I
say people's names a lot.
Um, I actually have done thisassessment, it's called the
Strengths Finder.
When I was on the leadershipteam, we all did it to be able
to know our strengths.
So people who do you know nowwhat's more like cutting edge or
whatever, and well known as likeEnneagram and um, sure.
(10:34):
Those types of things, right?
But this was in my professionallife, it was StrengthsFinder and
my number one was connector.
And how I describe that is if Igo to a party, I will connect
people and at the end of it, I'mlike standing alone because I
have created, I literallyintroduced people.
I remember those facts.
You do it.
nicole (10:53):
You do it digitally from a distance.
Robin has literally connected mewith another parenting coach in
Minnesota.
Oh my gosh.
You're right.
I, I forgot that I did that.
Yes, yes you did.
You went to a networking eventand then you connected us and
like you put us on an emailthread together and we totally
had a phone conversation.
(11:14):
And when you and I first met.
It was through one other person.
Yeah.
It was like you created thatconnection.
So yes, you're gonna, from, fromeven digital perspective,
robin (11:24):
my mind just sees connections and that's even like
all of the work with holisticwellness, holistic weight loss.
I don't see them as singularthings.
I, I see these like glimmeringpieces of people and I'm like,
oh, you'd really like thisperson or this person.
I just, there's too, I have beenthrough too much.
Fear and trauma and the depthsof despair to spend any more
(11:51):
time doing anything other thanjust like living in the light.
Mm-hmm.
And seeing that light in otherpeople.
And that's was the finger that Iwas holding.
Which by the way, for those ofyou who can't see, it was not
the middle finger, just so youknow.
Um, have you heard of the termLightworker?
No.
So it's a term in a lot of likethe woo spaces where people are
(12:14):
more into, you know, like angelnumbers and Oracle card decks
and all that kind of stuff.
I really resonate with itbecause when I learned what a
lightworker is, I'm like, oh mygosh, I'm one of those.
But it is, uh, a lightworker isanyone who.
Shines their light and otherpeople see it and help bring
(12:35):
really, you know, for you as aChristian, it's bringing
Christ's message to the earth.
Yeah, yeah.
And there is an energeticcomponent of that.
And many of us that arelightworkers are also empaths.
And so it's, uh, it's withinyour subtle energy body that we
even have.
Your subtle energy body is justthe unseen.
(12:56):
We have the physical body, andthen we have the subtle energy
body.
Okay.
And we all know what it feelslike to enter a room and feel
like something's off or, oh, youknow, like the vibe gets raised.
Light workers just have thisnatural magnetic attraction and
one of the most.
Powerful and profound examplesthat I have in my life.
(13:17):
I'm for sure.
Just like you, people just spillthings.
Mm-hmm.
And I am there for it.
But it was one that many peoplewere able to witness and it was
wild.
My daughter's school has anannual family fun night.
Okay.
And there were, I am not joking,like 300 people inside of this
(13:37):
gym with bouncy houses.
And it was an elementary schoolbecause it was supposed to be
outside and the weather wasn'tgood.
nicole (13:44):
Oh.
robin (13:45):
So imagine how chaotic that is.
nicole (13:47):
Yeah, that sounds awful.
robin (13:48):
I struggle with.
My sensory experiences now, soI'm a little bit dysregulated as
that's all happening.
Um, but all of a sudden I lookdown and a little girl who is
just in tears looking up at me,and it is a neighbor that I, a
neighbor girl that I kind ofknow and have seen a couple
(14:09):
times.
She found me in the middle ofthat crowd because she knew that
I.
Would I literally swept her up.
Picked her up, held her, yeah.
And then immediately found hermom.
That's an example.
Not with like a conversation,but that same thing where she
could've, she could've went,there were so many other people
that she passed by in order tofind me.
(14:31):
Mm-hmm.
And.
It's like we have this justnatural, safe place, you know?
Mm-hmm.
That we, we have, which makes iteven more complicated for me
when I'm like, why can't I, youknow, keep right friends and
stuff.
But one of the reasons I thinkthat we've been able to be
friends too, is, um, and developour relationship is all of the
different ways that we cancommunicate now.
Right?
So we're texting, we're MarcoPing, we're, you know.
(14:54):
In dms of mm-hmm.
Multiple platforms.
Mm-hmm.
And honestly, that's how I amkeeping the friendships with
even people who live 10 minutesaway from me that are same.
My closest friends,
nicole (15:06):
same.
My mom really brought to light.
Something about me that I don'tknow if I would've realized for
myself, but she said that Ihave, I'm a much more available
person, um, digitally, like,because I will, I'll stay
connected.
I'll, I'll send a Marco Polo andI'm a verbal processor.
I, I could send you a hundredMarco Polos a day, like I'll
(15:27):
tell you my whole life story ina day and I'll text you or I'll
DM you, but carving out time.
In a day to meet for coffee isso much more challenging this
season because like we've talkedabout before, even with older
kids, it's not slowing down.
No.
My husband and I both were laidoff a couple weeks ago.
Oh yeah.
And so we, but we said to eachother today, like, what would we
(15:50):
do if we had jobs?
These kids need rides everywherebecause our 16-year-old is not
driving yet.
The amount of our day is justfilled up with camps, taking
them to the movies, taking ouroldest to work like the,
robin (16:03):
it's a lot of energy.
And then full job.
Your people, I mean, you'repeopled out even when it's
people who fill your cup.
nicole (16:09):
Right?
So it's hard to carve.
So that's affecting a lot of therelationships is that time.
Are other relationships able toshow up as easily?
Hmm.
With like the Marco Polos or thetext messages, because I have
some friends who that that's nottheir form of, that's, yeah,
right.
It doesn't work for them.
So then how, I mean, not that wehave the answers.
Well, they have
robin (16:29):
to show up with grace.
I mean, that's what you startedwith when you were, you know,
telling me how wonderful I am.
Thank you.
Um, welcome.
You are, but well, thank you.
Um.
But it is about just havinggrace and compassion for mm-hmm.
Other people.
Mm-hmm.
And I'm curious,'cause thisshows up for me, I will reach
out to people randomly mm-hmm.
(16:51):
That are in my past and it just.
I just pick up where we leftoff.
Or, I have a best friend, he'sbeen my best friend since
kindergarten.
nicole (17:01):
That's impressive.
robin (17:03):
I know because we're old.
Like it's I, it's my 25th highschool graduation anniversary.
Awesome.
So when we add in, you know,another 13 years or whatever
from kindergarten, that'sreally, it's really something.
nicole (17:18):
Yeah.
robin (17:18):
And we do ebb and flow.
Um, and he lives in Milwaukeewhere I grew up and I'm in the
Twin Cities in Minnesota and hedoes not really travel that much
anymore.
So it's very few and far betweenthat we see each other.
But there is something so sacredin that, you know, he grew up
with my dad.
nicole (17:38):
Yeah.
robin (17:38):
And, um, my other, you know, best friend is from high
school and she went on vacationswith my family.
Mm-hmm.
And.
It's, that's really incredible.
But there's also these more likeperiphery friends.
Mm-hmm.
That it's the same thing whereif I, I would have no, I have no
ill feelings towards them.
Right.
I would just love to see, justbecause we follow, yeah.
(18:01):
Distance happens.
That happens.
Life happens.
It doesn't mean that you're bador I'm bad.
It just happens.
Let's enjoy each other if we doget an opportunity to be
together.
nicole (18:09):
Yeah.
Something that we should touchon too, it just was part.
Friendships is friendshipbreakups like you were talking
about, like friendship distance,and that does happen.
I was trying to
robin (18:18):
avoid that conversation
nicole (18:20):
call.
robin (18:20):
No, we said we were gonna talk about it all, so, okay.
Like how do
nicole (18:23):
you, how have you handled those?
robin (18:26):
Oh, well when you say that I have.
A couple that come.
Mm-hmm.
Really, really right.
And they, they hurt my gut andmy heart.
Um, not well, I don't handlethem well.
I don't handle them well.
The most recent one was actuallysomeone that not.
Not only was a friend, um, butwe met in recovery.
(18:51):
Um, I'm a recovering addict andshe was a sponsor of mine for a
little while.
And while I was transitioningsponsors at that time, and then
during COVID, um, we would gettogether frequently.
And at the time she had, um, anonly child and I, I had an only
(19:11):
child and it was reallybeautiful.
And she was working a lot on,um, herself and healing some
different relationships.
And I, I noticed, you know, thatshe was talking about how she
was just cutting people out ofher life and that she would
essentially ghost them and blockthem from things.
I mean, we're talking likefamily members and stuff like
(19:32):
that.
And, and yikes, I gave, youknow, I didn't, I didn't think
it would happen to me and yeah,I.
Thought it was just be, it waspart of her healing journey and
that these people had all doneher wrong.
And in her perception, that isexactly what happened.
nicole (19:47):
Yeah.
Now
robin (19:47):
why it hurts is because part of.
How I show up in the world andwork on my health and alignment
is that I don't wanna do damage
nicole (20:01):
right to
robin (20:02):
anybody.
Right.
And I have had to work so deeplyon what forgiveness means on a
soul level and how you show upfor people and in her
perception.
I was demanding too much of ourfriendship, and she kept, you
know, blowing me off when we'dhave an a, a time that we were
going to get together and Icalled her out on it, and I, not
(20:24):
in a mean way, I just said, Hey,it, you know, the next time that
we make plans, like I'verearranged to do things, I, I
wanted, I wanna get together.
I thought that we were reallyclose friends and she told me
that, you know, I was.
Obsessed with her and that Iwas, um, we weren't as close as
(20:44):
I was thinking.
Mm-hmm.
And that, how could I put thatkind of pressure on the
friendship?
And that really made me takepause.
nicole (20:52):
Yeah.
robin (20:52):
Um, and then she cut me out completely.
I mean, I email blocked evenlike everything.
Oh wow.
And, um, it was very, veryhurtful.
Yeah.
Um, and.
I just, I forgive her because I,I honestly wanna apologize for
(21:13):
anything that I did.
Yeah.
That sh showed up in a way that,that hurt her.
That was never my intention.
Do you think that you
nicole (21:19):
did, do you look back and think that you did do
anything wrong?
And would you change it movinginto a different friendship, or
do you feel like yourcommunication that she just
wasn't prepared to hear and thatyou needed to be true to
yourself by communicating?
robin (21:34):
I, one thing that I'm learning and you're actually
teaching me is that it's okay tonot be best friends with
everyone.
Yeah.
And I do think that there wasthat like puppy dog aspect of me
where I just like love so hardand she was, yeah.
And we were really, were like,we were in alignment with so
many things.
nicole (21:52):
Mm-hmm.
robin (21:52):
And that's what hurt.
The worst about it.
Yeah.
And I can understand from herperspective how she mm-hmm.
As a person who needed a lot ofalone time and distance and all
of these, and she, you know, ifshe had a slight headache, like
she wouldn't sacrifice thenshowing up even if it was a
commitment that we had madeweeks before.
(22:15):
Right.
And, um, I appreciate that abouther Now.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
nicole (22:22):
Yeah.
robin (22:22):
I, IWI, I don't want her necessarily back in my life.
Right.
I just wish that I could makeamends with her.
Yeah.
Um, and sometimes amends is notneeded by directly apologizing
to a person.
It can be just by giving thatspace.
(22:42):
Um, so there's still somethingfor me there that it's about my
own peace of mind.
But what about you?
Have you had a falling
nicole (22:51):
out?
Oh, for sure, for sure.
I wish I had none, but also thatwouldn't make me human that, but
yeah, there's two that I'vereally, yeah, they, it was super
painful and I think, were theyrecent?
Um, no, the most recent ones wasprobably two years ago.
Before that, it was, gosh, whenmy daughter was 17.
(23:13):
Um, and, you know, I think bothI, what I learned from it, I can
look back and takeaccountability in that like, my
communication wasn't great.
I could have done better, um, inthe first breakup.
The first breakup was thehardest in the sense that I, I
felt like I had communicated thebest that I could with the
(23:34):
skills I had at the time.
Mm.
And it was through one of thedarkest seasons of parenthood
and I expressed that and andliterally said, I don't know who
I am anymore.
Who I was before, no longerexists.
This pain is transformative andI don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know how to moveforward.
I don't, I'm lost.
(23:56):
And the reaction was.
When you're back to your oldself, let me know.
Mm.
While it was super hard in thatfriendship, it was so jarring to
be met with, I cannot do thisnew version of you.
That it almost was like, that'sgood.
That's good closure.
Yeah.
Because this is now who I am.
I wish it wasn't because I wishI didn't go through this painful
(24:19):
experience, but I did.
And so I, it's heartbreaking,but then like learning from it.
And I think that's what makes usbetter friends as we move
forward.
And also helps us recognize,like you said, not everyone is
there.
It's friendships have seasonsand they have timeframes, and
that friendships can fall indifferent categories.
(24:41):
They don't all have to be ourbest friends and they can serve
different parts of ourmotherhood journey.
Different friendships servedifferent parts.
I think, like I have my soccermom, friends.
Mm-hmm.
And I have my, the friends thatare, you know, my, my older
son's best friend's moms and youknow, that's our connection
piece.
And our friendship doesn't gomuch farther than soccer.
(25:03):
But I love my soccer moms on thesoccer, the sidelines.
Yeah.
And so I just have thesedifferent categories of friends
and that feels.
And I have my handful of bestfriends.
I have two that have beenaround, so I think they're
sticking around for quite awhile.
And then I have you who I've metin the last couple years, and I
have one other friend who I'vegotten close with in the last
(25:24):
year, but that's about thecapacity I have.
Mm-hmm.
To go deeper.
Mm-hmm.
And then I just have thecategories.
robin (25:31):
Yeah.
I really appreciate you justnaming that.
I, I don't think that we name itenough.
Um.
My perception before reallybecoming close with you, and you
honestly, you know, have coachedme in that just thinking of
friends and things in adifferent way.
(25:53):
It was that if I put people incategories prior to where I'm at
now, I thought that that wascallous and that I thought that
it was, um.
That it was just not okay for meto do.
Um, but I have
nicole (26:11):
learned, I think for you and I, it helps us like with the
emotional connection and releaseand expectation
robin (26:15):
boundaries.
Right.
And that has been something thathas been so important in my
transformation and the energeticboundaries because we, we.
We can do all of the things, butnot all at one time.
And that includes all of thedifferent components of
(26:37):
relationships and what itrequires to nurture and mm-hmm.
Sustain them.
And you know, honestly, like ourfriendship started because we
were both.
Being called and passionateabout building a business.
And we were doing it assolopreneurs.
As mompreneurs.
Mm-hmm.
And I, as the connector mm-hmm.
Knew that I neededaccountability and I wanted to
(27:00):
do this with other people.
And we started doing that andthen it grew and then we've
found a, to continue to growthat friendship mm-hmm.
While fulfilling our missionaround making.
About around being alightworker, see?
Mm-hmm.
See Yes.
Circles back to that finger thatI was holding.
Yes.
That's why I also hang out withother women who have Yes.
(27:22):
All sorts of neurodivergence.
'cause we, we figure out how tonavigate this world.
Yes.
And that's part of it too, isthat the older that I've been
getting, the more that the wiserI'm getting, the more I'm
getting to really know myselfand.
Knowing who, who, who my peopleare and well, and I
nicole (27:41):
think, go ahead.
I'll hold my finger.
robin (27:43):
No, no, you, well, don't pull your, you said don't pull
your finger now unless you'rearound your boys.
Something you said or my littlegirl.
'cause she really likes thatkind of stuff too.
Let's be real.
nicole (27:54):
Something you said triggered a thought for me in
that the older that I get, themore confident I am and who I
am.
And the more I can recognizethat I might not be a good
friend for you.
Someone might wanna be a friend,with me and go deeper.
And I can know that I'm probablynot a good matchup for you.
So sometimes I can recognizethat it's okay that we don't
have more than a surface level,surface level friendship, um,
(28:17):
because I recognize that mypersonality may, may not jive
with your personality, and thattakes a lot wrong with that,
robin (28:24):
and that takes a lot of strength and it's really, I
admire that so much.
I, I hope to be like you somedaywhen I grow up.
What a great place to wrap upthis episode.
I also wanna plant the seed withyou, Nicole.
As we were talking, there aresome aspects around family and
(28:45):
family dynamics and how as we'retransforming, and those people
don't necessarily go away in thesame ways.
And so, you know, boundaries,those are all, um, things that I
wanna explore together and learnfrom together and share with
others.
But, you know.
If you're in a season offriendship that feels dry or
lonely, please hear this.
(29:05):
This is a message from Nicoleand I.
You are not weird.
Or maybe you are and that's okaytoo.
That's okay.
We're weird.
We're weird.
Yeah.
And we, you find your weirdoseventually.
You don't need more than a hand.
Full of'em.
Like that's all.
You can just hold that finger,right?
Yes.
Just hold a couple of thosefingers.
Just know that you're not alone.
(29:26):
Especially as we navigate this,we thought it was gonna end
maybe in middle school orteenage years.
No, doesn't, there is doesn't.
We're gonna just keep going.
Keep going.
So making and keepingfriendships as a grown woman and
in motherhood, it is hard, butit is also beautiful, and we do
need each other.
Mm-hmm.
And it's never, ever, ever toolate to start again.
(29:46):
So maybe today is the day thatyou send a message, a message to
someone.
Maybe it's a text or a MarcoPolo that you wanna reach out to
reconnect.
Or maybe it's the day that youreach out to a new friend,
whatever it might be.
It could even be that you wannashare this episode with them.
What a great opportunity for youto be able to.
(30:09):
Connect, and as you know, we aretrying to grow this virtual
village, so we appreciate thatconnection as well as we'd be so
grateful if you left a review.
And, um, alike, it grows ourmission to help moms normalize
the mess and embrace themiracles, and it helps those
other moms find us and maybe youeven find a friend.
(30:29):
Mm-hmm.
So cheers to healingfriendships, finding new ones,
and also learning to be a betterfriend.
Yeah.
Thank you Nicole, for being myfriend.
Thank you for being my friend.
All right ladies, we'll see younext week.
Bye guys.
Hey, before you go, we've gotsomething just for you.
We created the motherhood andthe messy middle resource vault.
It's a growing library ofsupport that's just for you.
(30:52):
So inside you're gonna findtools from both Nicole and my
work plus resources that wemention right here on the
podcast.
It's free, it's sent straight toyour inbox, and it's always
evolving just like you.
So take what you need, leave therest.
You never know when you're gonnaneed it or when your group chat
might thank you for it.
So use the link in the shownotes or head to motherhood and
the messy middle.com to getaccess and welcome to your
(31:15):
virtual village.
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