October 2, 2023 • 49 mins
Is the path to healing always a straight line? Join us as we question the norm and discuss the complexities of healing and self-discovery, unraveling the influences of society, past lives, and familial ties. We share our struggles with recognizing our own journeys and the power of setting an intention to heal, even for external reasons. This conversation intricately peels back the layers on how societal ideals of perfection and spiritual bankruptcy can impact your journey.
Diving deeper into the healing process, we discuss the unique challenges faced by Black and Brown communities. We uncover the pain that often goes unaddressed and the implications of dominant culture on healing. Questioning the colonization of the healing process, we explore the myth of miraculous healing and the significance of allowing ourselves to grieve. We shed light on systemic oppression and its impact on healing, discussing the historical implications of redlining on Black and Brown communities.
In the midst of life's complexities, we speak to finding joy - from the small everyday moments to the bigger decisions that define our paths. We delve into our experiences with grief, expressing its surprising capability to bring both sorrow and joy. In our quest for spiritual healing, we emphasize the importance of setting boundaries, trusting ourselves, and finding our own path. This conversation is rich, empathetic, and offers practical tips for spiritual healing and self-care. So, tune in and join us on this beautiful journey of self-discovery.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Whenever we pick our subject, you just think it's
funny when I'm the one signingon the subject, not you, it's
not me today.
I'm like, all right, our topicis Our topic is my life.
(00:27):
I think my topic is everybody'slife.
But I think, yeah, right nowI'm like, fuck, all right, here
we go, welcome to Motherland.
I don't even know what they'rein for.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So today we are talking about why is healing so
hard?
Yeah, that's the end of theepisode, so we'll see you all
next week.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know, because it sucks, because we're not born
perfect.
I don't know.
Do you think we're born perfect?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I think we're born whole.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I don't like the word perfect, I do.
So you think we're born wholeand then all of a sudden we just
kind of a society with parents.
Everything comes in andprograms us and then we're just
a shit storm that has to fixitself.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I think it's a combination of things.
I also believe in past lives,so I think there's also lessons
that we're born into.
So I think that's also a factor.
And then there's the factor ofthe family that you're born into
, and the parents you've chosenor the people that you've chosen
to bring you into the world,are not necessarily the people
(02:03):
who are your caregivers when yougrow up.
I think society is a big partof it.
Who's around you, who'ssupporting you?
Who sees you Right?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I think I do believe in past lives and I think that
we sign up for our contractbefore we come down on the
lessons that we need to learn orthings we need to heal.
I'm trying to ask in myself, asI'm asking this question, as
I'm saying it out loud eventhough we may be born with,
let's say, lessons to learn orthings that we're supposed to
(02:39):
fulfill, are we born whole?
I think my answer to that is insome aspect, yes and in some
aspect no.
That's part of the journey, butI don't think that our life is
supposed to be I'm going to usethe word perfect.
I don't think our life issupposed to be perfect.
(03:00):
I think that would be boringanyways.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I think perfection is a construct of colonization, if
you want me to.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I think it's a trauma .
I teach on trauma all the time,and perfection is a form of
trauma.
That's a whole other idea ofwhat that is.
But yeah, I guess, when we talkabout spirituality, I think,
like we've said it before inpast episodes, that people step
into spirituality thinking we'reabout to go on to this perfect,
(03:28):
amazing, beautiful journey, andthen it's quite opposite.
At times of that, we get intosituations where we are trying
to heal or we're trying to grow,and then we're finding
ourselves back into what wethought.
Maybe we moved past or it's notas easy as I know.
This choice or this person,relationship, work, whatever it
(03:50):
is, is not healthy for me.
Therefore, I choose otherwise,we make a choice otherwise, but
I think we have to realize thatthe choice you made in the first
place to be in the situationthat you're in came with a load
of beliefs.
It came with a load of beliefs.
It came with a load of storiesthat you told yourself that you
somehow needed that situation orwhatever it is that you were in
(04:12):
.
So when you choose to make achange in your life, like I tell
people, you literally have toreprogram your brain again and
it's hard, and then you thinkyou're doing good and we go
along and we do well, and thensomething triggers you.
And then you're triggered andyou're right back.
You're like I thought we workedthrough this shit, I thought I
was done with this, I thought Ididn't feel this way anymore.
(04:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I don't think I even went on a spiritual
healing journey on purpose.
I think that also causes.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I didn't either.
Proper growths, right, right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Because you don't realize that that's the journey
that you're on.
So there's resistance,unconsciously, I think.
When I went on a, my firstintentional healing journey was
when I went into therapy.
I was suicidal for a while andeven spent some time in a
hospital, and so I wanted to getwell, and I've mentioned this
(05:13):
in other episodes.
I made a choice to say I'mgoing to get well.
So that was an intention, right, like that was a focus.
I spent time in therapy andinvestigated things and while I
felt better, I don't think Iwould have called a healing.
I think I was just out of acrisis.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I don't think that when we're really healing, that
we realize we're healing.
I think that takes some type ofan awareness or perspective
that we have maybe later on, butI think during the midst of it
it's really hard to sit back andbe like I'm healing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, I think no, because I really think the
difference for me when I was intherapy, it was to get me out of
a crisis, because I was at rockbottom.
The reason I wanted to getbetter was because I didn't want
to embarrass my family and Ididn't want to embarrass myself.
It was not around the fact thatI wanted to get well, it was.
(06:10):
This is not a good look.
This is not a good look for thepeople that I surround myself
with, and I didn't want to ruinmy career.
I was all around.
Image Like this is not a waythat I need to look and that is
why I think the big part of whyI intentionally went down this
(06:32):
path, like I need to get my shittogether but it wasn't
necessarily because I wanted tofeel good and I functioned, my
career, flourished.
All of those things, everythingthat I said I wanted to do, I
ended up accomplishing.
I was spiritually bankruptstill.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, I'm listening to you and I'm like having a
like.
This is what I find interestingabout what she said.
When I chose this journey, I'msure I made a choice somewhere,
right that I was like this is myspiritual journey, this is what
I'm going to do.
I chose it not to heal.
It was never about healing, itwas about whatever.
That's a whole nother story initself.
On how I got there, it wasn'tuntil years later that I was
(07:18):
going through my own depressionand suicide spot of just like I
hate my life.
I hate it so bad.
You know, I wanted to end life.
World will be easier.
I'm just not a part of it.
Like it was so bad.
And I just remember sittingthere crying and crying.
I literally remember justhuddling in the corner, crying
(07:40):
because I was tired of the imageI held.
It wasn't about the image offor others from, I guess it was,
but I was holding the image forothers.
But I was tired of holding thatimage.
And that's where I was like Idon't want to do this anymore.
I don't want to be this imagethat somehow I got assigned in
(08:00):
this life and I need to figureout what that looks like for me.
But that's for me whereeverything started was because,
like you were saying, like youmay start making choices based
on like oh, I was worried, youknow, for other people, or I
thought about what other peoplethought of me I did.
But I also was like I was sotired of giving a fuck, like I
was like I'm done.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
That is when I think I shed the external wanting to
stop.
I couldn't carry that anymore.
That, I think, happened whenEric got killed in Iraq.
And I think that's when itbecame very clear to me that I
realized that life was short andI did an evaluation of my life,
and that's when I realized thatI was not happy.
(08:42):
I may have been successful, butI wasn't happy, and it was the
first time that I dare to evenask myself what do you want?
Yeah, that's a big one.
Who do you want to be?
Is this the life that you want?
And the answer was a resoundingno.
And I think that's when Istarted to explore yeah, that's
(09:08):
the same.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I mean, that's kind of what came out of me, like I
was just like who am I and whatdo I desire?
And I think I kind of alwaysknew.
But I had told myself I wasn'tallowed to be this person, I
wasn't allowed to have thesethoughts or I wasn't allowed to
choose myself in my culture,like you're not as a woman, you
were taught you weren't allowedto choose yourself right, submit
(09:31):
to your husband, be a good wife, do all these things I wanted
out.
And the day I wanted out.
So I think for me that healingprocess was I had to let
everything go.
So I let everything go.
(09:53):
So I think that's why, when I'mlike, why is it so hard?
It's because when you trulyheal I think it's like you said
you have to ask your questionsof what do you want?
What do you want for yourself?
What does that look like?
You know, forget the bookdefinition, forget the family
definition, forget society'sdefinition, like what you want,
what does that look like for you?
And it's scary as F to reallyfigure out what that looks like,
(10:15):
because it means you have togive yourself permission to do
that, because once you giveyourself permission to see what
it even looks like so muchharder to forget that.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, I think there's also this, this idea,
especially for for us as blackand brown people, when we want
to go on this journey, and Ithink of my own discovery of
yoga and meditation practicesthat I found so healing and
transformative and they weretaught through this lens of
(10:49):
dominant culture, so practicesthat I felt like were helping me
were also hurting me because ofhow they were taught.
Yeah, so I was balancing that,and then, on top of it, the I
think, the colonized ways ofthinking around healing, that
healing is somehow linear andit's not linear.
And that you know we think we'resupposed to get someplace and
(11:10):
that it's all done.
And then recognizing like no,indeed, it is never all done and
it's two steps forward, onestep back.
It's happening in time, it'snot happening at all.
And I think a lot of what Iconsidered healing was
recognizing that I needed tounlearn a lot of the things that
(11:32):
I had learned and reconnectwith, I think, with wisdom that
was always there, but I just Ididn't trust before.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, do you think people are waiting for like some
miraculous thing to occurduring this healing process?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I think people think I think Ithought too, you know, and it
can be confusing becausesometimes big things do happen,
right, and I remember one of thefirst times I did a meditation
and it was, like, you know,psychedelic and is.
(12:15):
Does it always have to be likethis Like?
Is it always this big sort oflike going down a wormhole?
And you know, I let me talkfrom my perspective I think I
thought it needed to be big allof the time and I slowly started
to realize that the healingwasn't necessarily in what I was
doing, but it was recognizingwhen something came up that I
(12:38):
didn't respond the same way thatI did before.
And that's when I was like, ohokay.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I see, I think that goes in the sense of talking
like how everyone kind ofbypasses our pain, like you know
, and that's part of the healing, like we're like why is it so
hard?
Because we've trained ourselvesto not to bypass your pain,
like to not look at it right, toretreat from the discomfort,
and so I think that's why it'slike when you truly start
(13:04):
stepping into this, we're nolonger stepping away from the
pain, but we're allowingourselves to go into the pain.
And that's hard and you know,to really allow yourself to feel
something when you really thinkabout like you've probably
never felt this before.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And even and I and again, like I think, thinking
about us as black and brownpeople, part of it is is that we
are actually so used to pain onsome level, historically and
individually, that when we bumpinto pain as we begin to explore
(13:50):
emotional and psychic wounds,we have been so dysregulated to
pain that we don't know what todo with it.
So we completely retreat, right,like there's this, like no, I'm
not doing like, I do thisalready all the time.
Why do I have to do this now?
So, because we don't haveconversations around the pain
(14:16):
that we carry regularly, becauseof just existing in society,
we're reluctant to explore thenecessary part of pain that's a
part of healing, because wehaven't allowed ourselves to
grieve the pain that we carry.
That is an hour is an hour,responsibility, yeah, and so I
(14:36):
think the bypassing can bedifferent, for for us, in some
ways, right Like, and it almostfeels okay to bypass, but it's
not, and that's the challengingpart that it is completely
unfair of what's happened to ourcommunities collectively,
socioeconomically, all of thosethings, and we still have to do
(14:59):
the work, you know and I'mlaughing because I was thinking
about this the other day, in thesense that there was something
that was coming up, and I don'tknow what it was.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I was watching something.
I was talking about redlining.
I was thinking about the factof how many people don't like
their situation, but there'snothing to it.
Do you know what I mean?
You don't like it, but that'swhat it is at the end of the day
(15:31):
, and we just live with it.
I was thinking about it andthinking about it in relations.
I don't know if people knowwhat redlining is.
I don't even know what that is,but I'm pretty sure you do.
You're educated.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I'm talking educated person.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Basically, to sum it up, everyone that's listening I
have to remember our listenersdon't always know what we're
speaking about.
Black and brown people were notallowed to purchase or live in
certain areas of, I'm going tosay, the country.
Actually, even though I'm inSan Diego of the country, they
were only allowed to purchasehomes in one area.
These areas were not the bestareas.
(16:10):
It's where people built,industrialized them, maybe,
didn't build parks.
They did a lot of things inthese areas.
That's why, even now,predominantly, if you go into
certain parts of the world or inthe country, in the US, you'll
see where most people aresituated and there's a reason
for that.
There's a reason for that youwere literally not allowed to
purchase property if you weren'twhite.
(16:31):
That's redlining, because thelines on the map are red FYI.
That's why it's called.
I think I summed it up asbasically as like a basic.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I think that's yeah, it's a really smart, accessible
explanation.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
When you're talking about, when we're talking about
the signs of like, I'm notallowed to feel.
This is a great example of that.
This is a great example of itbecause I was just thinking
about the other day.
I'm like, yeah, nobody wasreally taught to feel.
I think back to my ownupbringing, especially being
raised by my grandfather, whereit was weak, you don't complain,
we don't complain.
Suck it up, you deal with itand you move forward.
(17:08):
Just be better.
That was always the thing.
Be better then.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Don't air anybody's dirty.
We don't air our laundry, wedon't.
But you can be better.
Be better than others.
Don't talk about this Like,even if there were things to
talk.
You don't talk to strangersabout our business.
You know there's.
I think communally that was abig part of the conversation,
and also healing practices thatwere created by Black and Brown
(17:37):
people were also appropriated,repackaged and sold back to us.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Are we talking about relevance now, like that's what
it is now Exactly?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And so it's like.
This is another reason why it'sso hard.
Right, there's individually whythe reason's so hard.
There's historically why thereason's so hard, and I think it
requires patience that we don'talways have because of, you
know, our society and gentleness, as well as a discipline and a
(18:11):
rigor Like there's.
There's like you need to doboth.
You need to be gentle in placesand then you need to be
disciplined and show up inplaces, and I think often we I
wanted to give up and keeptalking about me.
I wanted to give up in theplaces where I should have kept
going and rested, and kept goingin places where I should have
(18:33):
rested, and I think that isbecause I wasn't, I wasn't
unpacking or unlearning so muchof what I learned and embodied
inside.
That was self-loathing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I teach that a lot to people, especially a lot to my
clients and students is allowingthemselves to slow down and
take a step back.
It's like you may see yourselfhealing and you may be like on
this really great path of it.
Maybe you guys are doing reallygood of it and you can see the
change coming, or your desiresor your dreams right up ahead
and we want to rush to it.
So bad Like I just want to golike, oh, I'm good with change,
(19:05):
I embrace change.
I'm you know we've heard thisright, Like I'm great with
change, but you're only greatwith change when you're choosing
to rush past things.
Right, Like I'm great withchange, but just let me hurry up
and just get there and then I'mgood.
Well, why, Like, what about allthe in between moments that you
actually have to let yourselfslow down?
(19:26):
Um, so it makes you questionare you good with change?
Are you really because you'retrying to rush into whatever
that next step is or whateverthat that looks like right?
So I don't know.
I just thought about it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
No, you're right, and I think also we're good with
change when we choose the change.
We aren't good with change whenit's not changed that we chose.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I know, I know, but you're like.
The fact is, in my like I don'tcare, my own situation always
comes up.
But like I'm good with change,I chose this change.
But wait, I think it was goingto look like this, like this
isn't what I thought it wasgoing to be.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I was told there would be no math on this exam.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Wait a minute.
Like, hold on.
Like this is not what I signedup for at all.
Like there's and there's nogoing back.
It's just like I, there's noteven a fucking map.
Like I want, I want the map.
There's no fucking map.
I don't know what the hell I'mdoing.
(20:32):
Like and honestly I hate it,Like the Virgo in me hates it.
I'm like give me the recipe,give me the structure, give me
the order.
Like you said, not everyone's,everyone's.
Healing looks different.
I know this.
I teach it all the time.
Like, at the end of the day, Ican teach it to you, I can read
you, I can call in your guides,but for me, I'm just aft, Just
(20:55):
aft.
I'm like all right, I'm walkinga blindfold right now and I, I
don't like it, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
We teach what we need to learn.
We do, we do.
We teach what we need to learn.
I, I.
I am in a very I mean yeah butI think we all struggle and I
think it's.
I think we would benefit if wehad more conversations around
(21:27):
the discomfort and notpretending that it all looks a
certain way, and I think that'swhat I appreciate about you and
us and what we're talking about,that we talk about the
messiness of it all and thatit's.
It's uncomfortable because it'ssupposed to be.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think that's the real of it.
There is, like you said, likeit's uncomfortable because it's
supposed to be, and I thinkthat's where we get in trouble
with ourselves when we'rehealing, because we go back,
because we seek that comfort inwhatever unhealthy way that
looked like.
We seek that comfort Right,right, like, even, yeah, like I
was telling you right now, likemy season in life right now and
(22:06):
learning how to just be right,like I'm learning how to
surrender, I'm learning how to,you know, be by myself in a way.
But I know 120% I can find someunhealthy match right now to be
super comfortable in.
Like I can go back you knowwhat I mean Like I can, like, I
(22:28):
can find comfort, but no, we'renot, and you might even enjoy it
for a little while.
Yeah, I might enjoy it for alittle while and I might be like
this is it, and I might try tocreate those stories and those
beliefs again that this isexactly where I need to be,
where I need to be because I'mcomfortable in it.
(22:49):
Right, this is the joy.
Look at the joy, this has to beright and because I'm
comfortable in it.
But, as I'm hearing my guidesay, you know, expansion is
growth, like I know I'm doublesaying the same word, but you
know what I mean and in order toexpand means that you have to
move past that uncomfortabilityand you have to allow yourself
to look at.
Okay, well, let me look at whatthis can look like.
(23:12):
Let me look at what you know.
The other side is that makes meliterally crawl in my skin and
be like, like I said earlier,before we recorded I don't know
what the F I'm doing, but I'mfiguring it out.
You know I'm figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So, yeah, and I don't think that anything in our
history what are ways thatyou're taking care of yourself
as you're going through thistransition right now?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
trying to listen to myself on what makes me happy.
I really do prioritize my.
I saw that post the other dayand I loved it.
I loved it.
Which one, I don't know whichone Post about joy, oh Post
about joy and being happy.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I thought that really , that really I felt that inside
my body when I was reading that.
That really resonated with me.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, my posts have been resonating with a lot of
people, even though, like I said, they're not my typical posts.
Everybody's been like likingthem, I think, because I'm just
being real but just lettingmyself be happy and whatever
that looks like.
I think that's like you're like, what are you doing?
Well, like for me one, I backinto working out like crazy.
I like working out that.
I find joy in working out.
I find joy in pushing my limitsin my body.
(24:26):
It's psycho and crazy, but Ireally do.
Like my trainers are even likewhat are you doing to rest?
Because you like to just gohard and intense, but that's my
joy.
I'm the crazy one boxing forreal.
I'm the crazy one lifting likehard that's my joy.
And then just doing me inwhatever way, and even in the
sense, like you're like, whatare you doing for yourself?
(24:47):
Like, yeah, I'm dating, youknow, but like taking bold moves
in that you know, and allowingmyself to be vulnerable, as
weird as I'm saying this outloud, there is some kind of joy
in that too, because like, okay,I don't know if I'm really
dating anymore, I don't know,but that's a whole nother story
or topic.
I don't want to go there, so,but I think that's the way I'm
(25:11):
redoing my home.
My wall is getting painted soon.
I just redid my whole bathroommyself.
I'm all on my own shelves.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
For people who aren't watching right now.
It's a lavender, it's reallybright purple grape almost.
Right now it looks lavender onthe.
Xanthum so yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
So my wall behind me is a very dark purple.
You probably seen it on Tik Tokor lives, and I'm painting it a
gray.
I want, I like a gray.
I'm going more of a muted, likea slate almost, but, and I'm
rearranging so like Iwallpapered my bathroom by
myself, I put up my own shelveswith a drill gun, like there's
(25:54):
things that I'm just like thisis what I, that's my own way.
So when you're like, what doyou do?
Like be me, be me and whateverday, and if that's some days
that I'm call those girls andI'm like let's grab drinks and
we can have great adventures,like you know, this last weekend
, go to Burbank for the day andthen go to Santa Monica for the
day, and then, you know, just dowhatever I can do.
(26:17):
In this part of the moments,that's my joy.
I guess I don't know.
They answer the question.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
No, you did.
I think that's helpful.
You know, and I think what?
What I heard is thatunderstanding what makes you
feel a sense of joy in themoment is really important, and
it may not look like what otherpeople, what it looks like for
other people, and I think that'sokay and that's when we really
(26:47):
know that we are.
We're moving for us and not forother people's expectations.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, I've even changed my work Like I don't
even feel like I'm flowing withwork like I used to, you know,
because I just feel lately Ican't even work unless I'm fully
in it.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yes, you know, yes, yeah, yes, because we've talked
about that.
I feel part of what I'm.
I recognize now that I used tosay yes to everything because I
thought I had to and I don'tthink that served anyone.
(27:28):
So now I'm I'm reallydiscerning about what I say yes
to, yeah, and I think that comesfrom a place of healing, right
Like I don't think I'm healed,but I don't think I'll ever be
healed Cause there's alwaystrauma and things that happen to
you.
You know what I mean.
It's not like we're stagnant.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's not like Do you really always think there's
going to be new trauma?
I mean, I don't think that.
I don't know.
I think I'm taking on trauma.
I feel like I'm here.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
There will always be opportunities that come up and
because life is not stagnant,that there will be things that
will trigger me, like grief, forexample.
Um, you know I saw your postand I was yeah before.
Yeah, that day before yesterday.
I think it's a great example.
You know I was.
It's a New York, you havealternate side of the street
(28:21):
parking so I had to move my car.
So I'm sitting and I'm drivingup the block overcast day,
really chilly, classic fall dayon the East coast have my coffee
and as soon as I pull up, mprwas like playing some jazz.
The steering wheel was cold andI could smell the coffee and I
just, um, I lost it for a secondbecause it really hit me like,
(28:43):
oh shit, my dad is not comingback.
Is this yesterday?
Yeah, day before.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, I have to tell you what happened.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So it was yesterday and you know, my dad's been, my
dad's been gone for four years.
But in a moment, just in thatmoment, it felt like, oh my God,
like I just found out, you know, and for you know, if you've
lost somebody, you know, this ispart of Greek and that's and I
think that's what I mean.
It's not like I feel like I'mgonna be making the same
mistakes, but things will alwaysarise that allow you to
(29:14):
recognize that things willalways come up.
And I was.
You know, it wasn't like ittook me under, but it really was
just like oh yeah, this is withme forever.
And I felt like he was.
I'm using my hands if you can'tsee me, I'm using my hands
because I felt like he was infront, like he was right in
(29:35):
front of me, just in anotherdimension, if that makes sense.
So he was right there and Ithink maybe that's what I was
also feeling.
It's like he felt very closeand far away at the exact same
time, and I allowed myself tojust be in it and there was
almost a sense of joy being ableto miss him, like we miss
(29:57):
people that we loved a lot.
It would mean nothing if I wasjust like oh, whatever.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
There's no timeline in grief and there's no timeline
in healing, and I thought thereare people need to understand
and that you know it comes inwaves.
There's moments and there'stimes.
You know I was on the phonelast night with a friend and I
was sad like I was crying.
You know I was saying I have.
I mean, like you know, I have awedding coming up in Oaxaca.
It's a big family wedding.
I'm super happy for the couplegetting married but my family's
(30:26):
going really big and everybody'sthere.
Besides that, everybody's therewith a couple and then there's
I'm like I'm only actually, Ionly think I might be two, like
I'm one of the very few that aresingle.
Everybody's coupled up.
But regardless of that, I wastelling my friend, I was telling
him I was like I was cryingbecause I was like I miss my
grandfather.
(30:47):
Like I was like I almost did apost where it was just I was
trying to find a picture from mygrandpa that was so weird to
talk about grief and I saw ityesterday.
I was like I was literallygonna post this and I don't
think people understand.
I mean, I've kind of talkedabout like the fact that he was
my father.
In a sense he raised me and Ijust really miss him, like I was
(31:08):
like I don't, even though I'mgoing to this wedding and it's
really hard sometimes going tothings as where very people are
coupled up and you're like theonly single person.
It is kind of weird.
No offense to that, there's apart of it.
That's like I'm like I just Iwant my grandpa, like yeah, I'm
gonna cry.
I'm like you know, I want mygrandpa and so much of my own.
(31:31):
As we're talking about I'm justhaving these reflections as
we're talking about spiritualhealing.
A lot of my spiritual healingthat I had to do was allowing
myself to break out of the moldand role that was assigned to me
by being his granddaughter.
You know I was raised by him,so I was his granddaughter, but
yet I was his daughter and Itook on this very matriarch next
(31:52):
in line role for the family.
I've had to hold very highstandards in the sense where
people looked up to me.
They followed my lead in asense.
You know my marriage lead, myfamily lead, like my lead.
I held the family holidayparties.
I did all of it, and so when Iwent to, my spiritual healing
(32:12):
was not just ripping of my ownself, but it was also the family
kind of had to change theirstructure.
It was huge.
Like literally, people don'ttalk to certain people.
It was just a very big familystructural change.
But at the end of the day,going into this wedding, I'm
just like I don't know.
I don't even have words to sayother than like I just miss him.
(32:33):
I'm like I want my grandpa,like I want to see him there, I
want to be with him.
It's weird to say there's apart of me that feels I hold him
with, like energetic-wise, inmy own being, like in a room or
space, but like I don't want tohold him in my own being spaces.
(32:54):
I'm trying to put this in senselike I don't.
I feel like I've somehow takena part of this, but I also don't
want to take thatrepresentation either.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, so it's like I know that.
Like when people look or peoplelike that's kind of part of it,
you know, and they will likethere's people that'll easily
come to me and be like, oh mygosh, grandpa would be so, or
grandpa this or grandpa that,and I'm just like, yeah, but
(33:17):
there's a part of me that's likeI just I don't, that's a part.
I'm looking at where I'm goingto Mexico and I'm like, yeah,
there's a lot of triggers comingup for me.
There's a lot of triggers inmissing my grandfather in this
amazing place that holds so muchof our culture and he loves so
much, like it's triggering.
(33:38):
You know, it's triggering forthat.
It's triggering because he'snot there.
It's triggering because I'm notI'm not married, like I don't.
You know, I'm like do I want toget married again?
Yes, like, but also being at awedding is very uncomfortable,
you know, like it's triggeringbecause of that.
It's just a lot of things andat the end of the day, even
though he's not here, you stillwant someone.
(33:58):
I still want him there to be mybackbone.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
So I saw your post and I waslike oh, my God, I was going to
post something around grief andI was looking for a picture and
I'm like, oh, like I don't knowhow to explain that.
So, yeah, yesterday I crashed,I cried and then I felt bad for
this person I was talking to,because I'm like I just dumped a
(34:21):
whole lot of emotions on you,but at the end of the night I
was like okay, I'm going to bed.
It's like nine is like goodnight.
Like I'm so sorry, like Ididn't say sorry to them, but
I'm thinking it like I gave youmy emotions.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, sometimes we have to do that, right, we have
to.
Yeah, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Literally they just text.
You guys like energy and timingis so weird.
Fyi, the first time I wastalking about dumping my crap on
just texted.
So I.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, it's a journey.
I think it is a journey.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Is it weird and perverse, perverse?
I don't think it is to say thatwhen you're allow yourself to
step out of the perspectiveactually the one being healed,
it's actually a really beautifuljourney.
It's it has its highs, it hasits lows, it has its muddiness
and long depths that you're justlike.
(35:26):
I don't even know if I can findthe top of this, but there's a
beauty to it.
There's a beauty to it and it'slike I have this image of like
when the ocean is mad and it'sdark not clear, but dark, you
know and the waves are rough andyou don't know which direction.
There's a beauty to that, right, like you look at it, and
there's a beauty to it.
And I think, I think in all ofit that it's like healing is
(35:49):
ugly, healing is.
I don't think it's pretty, butI think, at the end of the day,
if you allow yourself to like,stand back, you're like it can
be beautiful.
I'm proud of who I am.
I'm proud of the mess that Ihad, the mess that I made.
I'm proud of like, yeah, Iripped shit up, like I'll do it
again.
I'll do it again, you know why?
(36:09):
Because, at the end of the day,I have kids that are following
my lead.
I'll do it again for my cousinsthat have come to me and said
I'm really was scared of whatyou chose in your life, because
I saw myself Exactly and I knewthat you know.
I do it again for the oldergeneration that has come up and
said thank you, because I didn'thave the words to speak out
about my own abilities and giftsand another subject.
(36:31):
You know it's like I would do itagain for my clients, like I
would never choose to not do itagain.
But it was hard and it still ishard and I know I'm in another
stage in life now where peopleare like we wanna know about
your dating, we wanna know aboutthe healing part of this, we
wanna hear it.
You know I give it what I cangive it.
(36:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I think it's always ongoing, depending upon where
you are in life too, and that'swhy it's hard.
You know, I think just when wethink we get to a place where
you think you have it allfigured out, you know, something
else comes in to trip you up.
But I think that's light, Ithink that's what life is, and I
think if we let go of the ideathat things have to be perfect,
(37:24):
right.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Let's just get rid of it.
I don't like we seriously doneed to get rid of that word.
I hate that word.
It's a horrible word.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And it's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Who made the rule?
I mean we all, but don't answerthat that's a whole talk.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
We all made the rule.
We know who made it, but it'snot.
It's just so harmful.
It's so harmful.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And it's such a thing we chase, like, how many
listeners sitting here, how manyof you guys are chasing
perfectionism, perfectionism onwhose rules that's?
I feel we should have coveredthat topic, but like it's a
horrible thing, there's noproblem.
There's your journey, there'smy journey.
We don't look alike.
We may mirror some things, butthere's no less to it and
(38:14):
there's no timeline.
So we need to like embrace,embrace, patience and, oh no, go
ahead.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
How's that?
Having children talks abouthealing.
I can't remember what book itis, but she says you know, if it
were easy.
She talks about healing asenlightenment right, and she's
like if we could just getenlightened by snapping our
fingers.
I mean she said we'd beinsufferable, like people would
(38:44):
just be insufferable becauseyou'd look at people who are
suffering, like what's wrongwith you, why can't you just get
it together?
So I think there's also somecompassion that gets built into
this process as well, that wecan see the suffering in other
people and be compassionatebecause we've experienced it for
(39:07):
ourselves, or at least that'sthe hope as we're on this
journey.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's hard, though, to look at your inner demons and
to hold that mirror up toyourself and be like.
You know.
That's why I tell people frommy job for living, I'm like I
got you.
I'll hold the mirror up for alittle while, let you see
yourself.
You know that sounds so bad,isabel, but you get what I say
when I do.
But you know I'll hold it upand like, but it's hard for us
to see our inner demons and whatwe've created and what we've
(39:33):
chosen to be a part of.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, to sit with the shame or embarrassment or just
things that make usuncomfortable things that we
were told that we should feeluncomfortable about, and I think
that's also part of it, right?
It's that constant balancebetween sitting with yourself
and then recognizing narrativesthat you are fed about the
things that you're looking atand somehow making you less them
and making you less perfectversus.
(39:58):
This is just who you are andyou did what you did because you
needed to at that time.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
You brought in a crazy thing earlier when we were
talking about I think youmentioned something about
religion too, like how religioncan bring aspects into us that
we've chosen believe to affectour healing.
I was listening to a talkearlier on, was it last week?
Yeah, it was last week when myprofessor was talking about
spirituality, the growth ofspirituality versus religion,
(40:23):
and I'm just thinking about itright now because I'm like, well
, we're talking about spiritualhealing.
I don't know where I was goingwith my thought, but I was
trying to think about, like howshe was talking about healing
and I'm like I think peoplechose the spiritual route at
times to heal because it's lessconstraint than the religious
aspect.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, that part is yeah, and I didn't grow up with
religion but and I didn't growup with spirituality either, but
there's a gentleness that Ithink I have with myself that I
did not have before I was not.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I think I was more of a bee when I was religious than
I was spiritual, Like no, Imean.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I was all sharp, sharp edges.
That's a great story, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, everything had to be black and white.
Follow these lines, things likethat.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yes, there was no wiggle room, not for me and not
for anybody else.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
No, no, yeah, it was literally fire and brimstone or
heaven.
There was no me.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, yeah.
And the harm in that right, theharm in that inflexibility.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, that's like a whole another conversation.
I think people would be reallysurprised to say, like when I
told you like I look back on thechurch that I was a part of and
the way that I would drill mychildren at the dining room
table, like I'm telling you guys, we followed a thing where I
was like why was God made, whatis he here, how is he present?
Like, and they had to be likeomnipresent, omnipotent, like it
was like a drill, like bomb,bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb.
(42:01):
It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I was a little crazy, just a little bit, but we, you
know, we grow.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
We grow.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
And that's why it's hard.
You know, I don't know anythingelse.
I mean, I'm like we said why isit hard?
We're like I don't know, guys,because you're learning all the
time, you're growing, you thinkyou got your shit figured out
and then all of a sudden, youdon't got shit figured out,
that's it, that's it.
All of a sudden, you go fromlike ah to like fudge, what just
(42:39):
happened, like it literally islike that.
And then you know what thebeautiful thing is is that
you'll take from what youlearned last time and you'll be
like I got this.
You will.
I got this.
I'm gonna approach this timedifferently.
And I got this.
I made it out of that.
I'm gonna make it out of this.
I got this, even though rightnow I was telling Onika earlier
that it sucks sometimes beingalone.
(43:00):
I think I've learned so much inmy life how to be alone.
In the retrospect.
You asked a really goodquestion like well, weren't you
alone then too?
And I think the reality is isI've always been alone.
And, like at my childhood, Ilook at my marriage, I look at
my last relationship, like I'vealways been alone and I think at
the end of it it's like I gotthis, like I got this.
This is who I am.
I got this and, yeah, I don'tthink I'll be alone forever, if
(43:26):
that's a whole nother time.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I don't think you're alone now, and I think that's
also what's important to me, andwe need people, and you don't
need a lot of people, you know,for those of you out there, I
think sometimes we think we needthis whole giant community, but
sometimes you just need oneperson who can see you, and that
makes it hard.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
That's our best community right now.
Like I was thinking about thesedays, I was like I have the
best community I've ever had andmaybe consist of three to four
people and it is all in.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, yeah, my love.
Yeah, I do feel like I haveplaces where I can go to be seen
and to feel, to feel held, andthat was not something that I
could do for a while.
I didn't feel like safe enoughthat people could hold space for
me and that wasn't the same.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
That's a big one.
I like that.
You said that I don't feel Ididn't feel safe enough for
people to hold space for me.
Yeah, I didn't.
That's big and I think that's abig thing for a lot of us that
we don't feel safe enough forpeople to hold space for us.
We don't feel safe enough toeven let people see us.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I didn't feel safe enough inside myself, yeah, and
I think that kept me away fromme and also from finding
community.
And I think when I was able tobe vulnerable with myself and
even say that out loud, itshifted a lot for me.
Like before, even five yearsago, I had said those words out
(44:56):
loud, I would be in a crumpledpile on the floor right now in
tears because it was so raw andI think it's still there to some
degree.
I think some things in us don'tchange.
We just learn how to make peacewith them.
Right, like the grief.
Grief changes, but it doesn'tgo away and I think I think I'm
(45:18):
discerning about who I'm closewith, like in who I share with.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I think that's part of healing too, is understanding
that my time and my space andmy energy is valuable.
You have a right to bediscerning of that.
That's part of healing, I think, yeah, you've been taught that
we weren't allowed to do that,right?
I mean, we go back into, likeyou say, black and brown and the
fact of, like, we weren'ttaught boundaries, weren't
allowed to have boundaries, likeyou know.
Then, allowing yourself to kindof explore and do that, that's
(45:45):
helpful.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, and being you know, I made some mistakes, like
sometimes I was too close withpeople that I shouldn't have
been, and there are people Iprobably should have confided in
and I didn't.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I think I want to say too in this, in the spiritual
aspect of it just because youknow what I'm saying, just
because somebody is spiritual orsays they're spiritual doesn't
necessarily mean they're a valueof your time or space or energy
.
Yeah, and I think that goesinto healing.
So when you're healing, even asyou're healing and you're
growing, you're knowing yourself.
The most important thing is youtrust your intuition and your
(46:20):
instinct, and if somebody'sprojecting an energy that it's
just not, it's not for you, it'snot for you.
And I say that because I thinkthat we can be trustworthy of
people because of titles givenor because people say they are
yeah, yeah, like I knew when Imet you, I was like, oh, she
could hold space for me, yeah, Iliked you when I met you.
(46:42):
I remember meeting you and Iwas like oh, we could talk
forever.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
I was like, yeah, no, I remember that too and that's
not.
You know, it's not always thecase and I think that's fine,
but I think it's.
I think that's a big part ofalso what makes it hard, where I
think.
For me I was also.
Once I started on this journey,I was afraid to make mistakes,
going back to perfectionism.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing, though, is
that it's okay to make mistakes.
I talk about that all the time.
I don't even that's anotherword I don't like mistakes.
I don't believe we makemistakes.
I believe that we get, we getopportunity to grow from, and
that's it, at the end of the day, right.
We grow from them, and that's.
I don't believe in mistakeslike that.
What'd you learn Great?
(47:28):
Did you learn it?
Yes, okay, done, move on, moveon.
I think the only mistake thatwe can make is when we learn
from it and we redo it again.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, I told you last week.
That's when my boss is likeokay, you make a mistake, great,
don't make it again, right?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Right, that's it.
That's all the, I think, quotethe mistake we have.
It's like oh well, you letyourself do it again.
You know he was good with theone liners like that.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
He would do like a high low of the day.
He would say like what's yourhigh, what's your low?
High, lows of the day.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
It was real.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
It was very cool to have a boss like ask you those
questions.
Like it was unusual.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I like my low of the day.
Those are good ones.
Those are good ones.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, yeah, he had some.
He had some good ones.
Yeah, he was tough, he wasfunny, good, all right.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Any other tips before we close it out?
No, I think that's it.
All right, guys, I think that'severything.
If you have questions aboutspiritual healing, let us know.
I think there's a lot of layersto it.
I think that we've covered alot of layers in our last
podcast, even because we'vetalked about it.
Even as you're healing right,especially as a black, brown
person, you heal, you'll findfreak I got to go heal some
(48:42):
other shit that was been inthere for generations and years.
So I think it's just allowingyourself that grace, that
patience, and to fill into it,and don't compare, don't compare
.
Yeah, all right, talk to youguys later.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Bye, bye, everyone, bye Bye.
Whenever we pick our subject, you just think it's
funny when I'm the one signingon the subject, not you, it's
not me today.
I'm like, all right, our topicis Our topic is my life.
(00:27):
I think my topic is everybody'slife.
But I think, yeah, right nowI'm like, fuck, all right, here
we go, welcome to Motherland.
I don't even know what they'rein for.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
So today we are talking about why is healing so
hard?
Yeah, that's the end of theepisode, so we'll see you all
next week.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
I know, because it sucks, because we're not born
perfect.
I don't know.
Do you think we're born perfect?
Speaker 2 (01:18):
I think we're born whole.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
I don't like the word perfect, I do.
So you think we're born wholeand then all of a sudden we just
kind of a society with parents.
Everything comes in andprograms us and then we're just
a shit storm that has to fixitself.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
I think it's a combination of things.
I also believe in past lives,so I think there's also lessons
that we're born into.
So I think that's also a factor.
And then there's the factor ofthe family that you're born into
, and the parents you've chosenor the people that you've chosen
to bring you into the world,are not necessarily the people
(02:03):
who are your caregivers when yougrow up.
I think society is a big partof it.
Who's around you, who'ssupporting you?
Who sees you Right?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I think I do believe in past lives and I think that
we sign up for our contractbefore we come down on the
lessons that we need to learn orthings we need to heal.
I'm trying to ask in myself, asI'm asking this question, as
I'm saying it out loud eventhough we may be born with,
let's say, lessons to learn orthings that we're supposed to
(02:39):
fulfill, are we born whole?
I think my answer to that is insome aspect, yes and in some
aspect no.
That's part of the journey, butI don't think that our life is
supposed to be I'm going to usethe word perfect.
I don't think our life issupposed to be perfect.
(03:00):
I think that would be boringanyways.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
I think perfection is a construct of colonization, if
you want me to.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
I think it's a trauma .
I teach on trauma all the time,and perfection is a form of
trauma.
That's a whole other idea ofwhat that is.
But yeah, I guess, when we talkabout spirituality, I think,
like we've said it before inpast episodes, that people step
into spirituality thinking we'reabout to go on to this perfect,
(03:28):
amazing, beautiful journey, andthen it's quite opposite.
At times of that, we get intosituations where we are trying
to heal or we're trying to grow,and then we're finding
ourselves back into what wethought.
Maybe we moved past or it's notas easy as I know.
This choice or this person,relationship, work, whatever it
(03:50):
is, is not healthy for me.
Therefore, I choose otherwise,we make a choice otherwise, but
I think we have to realize thatthe choice you made in the first
place to be in the situationthat you're in came with a load
of beliefs.
It came with a load of beliefs.
It came with a load of storiesthat you told yourself that you
somehow needed that situation orwhatever it is that you were in
(04:12):
.
So when you choose to make achange in your life, like I tell
people, you literally have toreprogram your brain again and
it's hard, and then you thinkyou're doing good and we go
along and we do well, and thensomething triggers you.
And then you're triggered andyou're right back.
You're like I thought we workedthrough this shit, I thought I
was done with this, I thought Ididn't feel this way anymore.
(04:34):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, I don't think I even went on a spiritual
healing journey on purpose.
I think that also causes.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
I didn't either.
Proper growths, right, right.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Because you don't realize that that's the journey
that you're on.
So there's resistance,unconsciously, I think.
When I went on a, my firstintentional healing journey was
when I went into therapy.
I was suicidal for a while andeven spent some time in a
hospital, and so I wanted to getwell, and I've mentioned this
(05:13):
in other episodes.
I made a choice to say I'mgoing to get well.
So that was an intention, right, like that was a focus.
I spent time in therapy andinvestigated things and while I
felt better, I don't think Iwould have called a healing.
I think I was just out of acrisis.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
I don't think that when we're really healing, that
we realize we're healing.
I think that takes some type ofan awareness or perspective
that we have maybe later on, butI think during the midst of it
it's really hard to sit back andbe like I'm healing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
No, I think no, because I really think the
difference for me when I was intherapy, it was to get me out of
a crisis, because I was at rockbottom.
The reason I wanted to getbetter was because I didn't want
to embarrass my family and Ididn't want to embarrass myself.
It was not around the fact thatI wanted to get well, it was.
(06:10):
This is not a good look.
This is not a good look for thepeople that I surround myself
with, and I didn't want to ruinmy career.
I was all around.
Image Like this is not a waythat I need to look and that is
why I think the big part of whyI intentionally went down this
(06:32):
path, like I need to get my shittogether but it wasn't
necessarily because I wanted tofeel good and I functioned, my
career, flourished.
All of those things, everythingthat I said I wanted to do, I
ended up accomplishing.
I was spiritually bankruptstill.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, I'm listening to you and I'm like having a
like.
This is what I find interestingabout what she said.
When I chose this journey, I'msure I made a choice somewhere,
right that I was like this is myspiritual journey, this is what
I'm going to do.
I chose it not to heal.
It was never about healing, itwas about whatever.
That's a whole nother story initself.
On how I got there, it wasn'tuntil years later that I was
(07:18):
going through my own depressionand suicide spot of just like I
hate my life.
I hate it so bad.
You know, I wanted to end life.
World will be easier.
I'm just not a part of it.
Like it was so bad.
And I just remember sittingthere crying and crying.
I literally remember justhuddling in the corner, crying
(07:40):
because I was tired of the imageI held.
It wasn't about the image offor others from, I guess it was,
but I was holding the image forothers.
But I was tired of holding thatimage.
And that's where I was like Idon't want to do this anymore.
I don't want to be this imagethat somehow I got assigned in
(08:00):
this life and I need to figureout what that looks like for me.
But that's for me whereeverything started was because,
like you were saying, like youmay start making choices based
on like oh, I was worried, youknow, for other people, or I
thought about what other peoplethought of me I did.
But I also was like I was sotired of giving a fuck, like I
was like I'm done.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
That is when I think I shed the external wanting to
stop.
I couldn't carry that anymore.
That, I think, happened whenEric got killed in Iraq.
And I think that's when itbecame very clear to me that I
realized that life was short andI did an evaluation of my life,
and that's when I realized thatI was not happy.
(08:42):
I may have been successful, butI wasn't happy, and it was the
first time that I dare to evenask myself what do you want?
Yeah, that's a big one.
Who do you want to be?
Is this the life that you want?
And the answer was a resoundingno.
And I think that's when Istarted to explore yeah, that's
(09:08):
the same.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
I mean, that's kind of what came out of me, like I
was just like who am I and whatdo I desire?
And I think I kind of alwaysknew.
But I had told myself I wasn'tallowed to be this person, I
wasn't allowed to have thesethoughts or I wasn't allowed to
choose myself in my culture,like you're not as a woman, you
were taught you weren't allowedto choose yourself right, submit
(09:31):
to your husband, be a good wife, do all these things I wanted
out.
And the day I wanted out.
So I think for me that healingprocess was I had to let
everything go.
So I let everything go.
(09:53):
So I think that's why, when I'mlike, why is it so hard?
It's because when you trulyheal I think it's like you said
you have to ask your questionsof what do you want?
What do you want for yourself?
What does that look like?
You know, forget the bookdefinition, forget the family
definition, forget society'sdefinition, like what you want,
what does that look like for you?
And it's scary as F to reallyfigure out what that looks like,
(10:15):
because it means you have togive yourself permission to do
that, because once you giveyourself permission to see what
it even looks like so muchharder to forget that.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
Yeah, I think there's also this, this idea,
especially for for us as blackand brown people, when we want
to go on this journey, and Ithink of my own discovery of
yoga and meditation practicesthat I found so healing and
transformative and they weretaught through this lens of
(10:49):
dominant culture, so practicesthat I felt like were helping me
were also hurting me because ofhow they were taught.
Yeah, so I was balancing that,and then, on top of it, the I
think, the colonized ways ofthinking around healing, that
healing is somehow linear andit's not linear.
And that you know we think we'resupposed to get someplace and
(11:10):
that it's all done.
And then recognizing like no,indeed, it is never all done and
it's two steps forward, onestep back.
It's happening in time, it'snot happening at all.
And I think a lot of what Iconsidered healing was
recognizing that I needed tounlearn a lot of the things that
(11:32):
I had learned and reconnectwith, I think, with wisdom that
was always there, but I just Ididn't trust before.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Yeah, do you think people are waiting for like some
miraculous thing to occurduring this healing process?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, I do.
I think people think I think Ithought too, you know, and it
can be confusing becausesometimes big things do happen,
right, and I remember one of thefirst times I did a meditation
and it was, like, you know,psychedelic and is.
(12:15):
Does it always have to be likethis Like?
Is it always this big sort oflike going down a wormhole?
And you know, I let me talkfrom my perspective I think I
thought it needed to be big allof the time and I slowly started
to realize that the healingwasn't necessarily in what I was
doing, but it was recognizingwhen something came up that I
(12:38):
didn't respond the same way thatI did before.
And that's when I was like, ohokay.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
I see, I think that goes in the sense of talking
like how everyone kind ofbypasses our pain, like you know
, and that's part of the healing, like we're like why is it so
hard?
Because we've trained ourselvesto not to bypass your pain,
like to not look at it right, toretreat from the discomfort,
and so I think that's why it'slike when you truly start
(13:04):
stepping into this, we're nolonger stepping away from the
pain, but we're allowingourselves to go into the pain.
And that's hard and you know,to really allow yourself to feel
something when you really thinkabout like you've probably
never felt this before.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
And even and I and again, like I think, thinking
about us as black and brownpeople, part of it is is that we
are actually so used to pain onsome level, historically and
individually, that when we bumpinto pain as we begin to explore
(13:50):
emotional and psychic wounds,we have been so dysregulated to
pain that we don't know what todo with it.
So we completely retreat, right,like there's this, like no, I'm
not doing like, I do thisalready all the time.
Why do I have to do this now?
So, because we don't haveconversations around the pain
(14:16):
that we carry regularly, becauseof just existing in society,
we're reluctant to explore thenecessary part of pain that's a
part of healing, because wehaven't allowed ourselves to
grieve the pain that we carry.
That is an hour is an hour,responsibility, yeah, and so I
(14:36):
think the bypassing can bedifferent, for for us, in some
ways, right Like, and it almostfeels okay to bypass, but it's
not, and that's the challengingpart that it is completely
unfair of what's happened to ourcommunities collectively,
socioeconomically, all of thosethings, and we still have to do
(14:59):
the work, you know and I'mlaughing because I was thinking
about this the other day, in thesense that there was something
that was coming up, and I don'tknow what it was.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
I was watching something.
I was talking about redlining.
I was thinking about the factof how many people don't like
their situation, but there'snothing to it.
Do you know what I mean?
You don't like it, but that'swhat it is at the end of the day
(15:31):
, and we just live with it.
I was thinking about it andthinking about it in relations.
I don't know if people knowwhat redlining is.
I don't even know what that is,but I'm pretty sure you do.
You're educated.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I'm talking educated person.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Basically, to sum it up, everyone that's listening I
have to remember our listenersdon't always know what we're
speaking about.
Black and brown people were notallowed to purchase or live in
certain areas of, I'm going tosay, the country.
Actually, even though I'm inSan Diego of the country, they
were only allowed to purchasehomes in one area.
These areas were not the bestareas.
(16:10):
It's where people built,industrialized them, maybe,
didn't build parks.
They did a lot of things inthese areas.
That's why, even now,predominantly, if you go into
certain parts of the world or inthe country, in the US, you'll
see where most people aresituated and there's a reason
for that.
There's a reason for that youwere literally not allowed to
purchase property if you weren'twhite.
(16:31):
That's redlining, because thelines on the map are red FYI.
That's why it's called.
I think I summed it up asbasically as like a basic.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
I think that's yeah, it's a really smart, accessible
explanation.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
When you're talking about, when we're talking about
the signs of like, I'm notallowed to feel.
This is a great example of that.
This is a great example of itbecause I was just thinking
about the other day.
I'm like, yeah, nobody wasreally taught to feel.
I think back to my ownupbringing, especially being
raised by my grandfather, whereit was weak, you don't complain,
we don't complain.
Suck it up, you deal with itand you move forward.
(17:08):
Just be better.
That was always the thing.
Be better then.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Don't air anybody's dirty.
We don't air our laundry, wedon't.
But you can be better.
Be better than others.
Don't talk about this Like,even if there were things to
talk.
You don't talk to strangersabout our business.
You know there's.
I think communally that was abig part of the conversation,
and also healing practices thatwere created by Black and Brown
(17:37):
people were also appropriated,repackaged and sold back to us.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Are we talking about relevance now, like that's what
it is now Exactly?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And so it's like.
This is another reason why it'sso hard.
Right, there's individually whythe reason's so hard.
There's historically why thereason's so hard, and I think it
requires patience that we don'talways have because of, you
know, our society and gentleness, as well as a discipline and a
(18:11):
rigor Like there's.
There's like you need to doboth.
You need to be gentle in placesand then you need to be
disciplined and show up inplaces, and I think often we I
wanted to give up and keeptalking about me.
I wanted to give up in theplaces where I should have kept
going and rested, and kept goingin places where I should have
(18:33):
rested, and I think that isbecause I wasn't, I wasn't
unpacking or unlearning so muchof what I learned and embodied
inside.
That was self-loathing, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I teach that a lot to people, especially a lot to my
clients and students is allowingthemselves to slow down and
take a step back.
It's like you may see yourselfhealing and you may be like on
this really great path of it.
Maybe you guys are doing reallygood of it and you can see the
change coming, or your desiresor your dreams right up ahead
and we want to rush to it.
So bad Like I just want to golike, oh, I'm good with change,
(19:05):
I embrace change.
I'm you know we've heard thisright, Like I'm great with
change, but you're only greatwith change when you're choosing
to rush past things.
Right, Like I'm great withchange, but just let me hurry up
and just get there and then I'mgood.
Well, why, Like, what about allthe in between moments that you
actually have to let yourselfslow down?
(19:26):
Um, so it makes you questionare you good with change?
Are you really because you'retrying to rush into whatever
that next step is or whateverthat that looks like right?
So I don't know.
I just thought about it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
No, you're right, and I think also we're good with
change when we choose the change.
We aren't good with change whenit's not changed that we chose.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I know, I know, but you're like.
The fact is, in my like I don'tcare, my own situation always
comes up.
But like I'm good with change,I chose this change.
But wait, I think it was goingto look like this, like this
isn't what I thought it wasgoing to be.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
I was told there would be no math on this exam.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Wait a minute.
Like, hold on.
Like this is not what I signedup for at all.
Like there's and there's nogoing back.
It's just like I, there's noteven a fucking map.
Like I want, I want the map.
There's no fucking map.
I don't know what the hell I'mdoing.
(20:32):
Like and honestly I hate it,Like the Virgo in me hates it.
I'm like give me the recipe,give me the structure, give me
the order.
Like you said, not everyone's,everyone's.
Healing looks different.
I know this.
I teach it all the time.
Like, at the end of the day, Ican teach it to you, I can read
you, I can call in your guides,but for me, I'm just aft, Just
(20:55):
aft.
I'm like all right, I'm walkinga blindfold right now and I, I
don't like it, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
We teach what we need to learn.
We do, we do.
We teach what we need to learn.
I, I.
I am in a very I mean yeah butI think we all struggle and I
think it's.
I think we would benefit if wehad more conversations around
(21:27):
the discomfort and notpretending that it all looks a
certain way, and I think that'swhat I appreciate about you and
us and what we're talking about,that we talk about the
messiness of it all and thatit's.
It's uncomfortable because it'ssupposed to be.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
I think that's the real of it.
There is, like you said, likeit's uncomfortable because it's
supposed to be, and I thinkthat's where we get in trouble
with ourselves when we'rehealing, because we go back,
because we seek that comfort inwhatever unhealthy way that
looked like.
We seek that comfort Right,right, like, even, yeah, like I
was telling you right now, likemy season in life right now and
(22:06):
learning how to just be right,like I'm learning how to
surrender, I'm learning how to,you know, be by myself in a way.
But I know 120% I can find someunhealthy match right now to be
super comfortable in.
Like I can go back you knowwhat I mean Like I can, like, I
(22:28):
can find comfort, but no, we'renot, and you might even enjoy it
for a little while.
Yeah, I might enjoy it for alittle while and I might be like
this is it, and I might try tocreate those stories and those
beliefs again that this isexactly where I need to be,
where I need to be because I'mcomfortable in it.
(22:49):
Right, this is the joy.
Look at the joy, this has to beright and because I'm
comfortable in it.
But, as I'm hearing my guidesay, you know, expansion is
growth, like I know I'm doublesaying the same word, but you
know what I mean and in order toexpand means that you have to
move past that uncomfortabilityand you have to allow yourself
to look at.
Okay, well, let me look at whatthis can look like.
(23:12):
Let me look at what you know.
The other side is that makes meliterally crawl in my skin and
be like, like I said earlier,before we recorded I don't know
what the F I'm doing, but I'mfiguring it out.
You know I'm figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
So, yeah, and I don't think that anything in our
history what are ways thatyou're taking care of yourself
as you're going through thistransition right now?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
trying to listen to myself on what makes me happy.
I really do prioritize my.
I saw that post the other dayand I loved it.
I loved it.
Which one, I don't know whichone Post about joy, oh Post
about joy and being happy.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
I thought that really , that really I felt that inside
my body when I was reading that.
That really resonated with me.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Yeah, my posts have been resonating with a lot of
people, even though, like I said, they're not my typical posts.
Everybody's been like likingthem, I think, because I'm just
being real but just lettingmyself be happy and whatever
that looks like.
I think that's like you're like, what are you doing?
Well, like for me one, I backinto working out like crazy.
I like working out that.
I find joy in working out.
I find joy in pushing my limitsin my body.
(24:26):
It's psycho and crazy, but Ireally do.
Like my trainers are even likewhat are you doing to rest?
Because you like to just gohard and intense, but that's my
joy.
I'm the crazy one boxing forreal.
I'm the crazy one lifting likehard that's my joy.
And then just doing me inwhatever way, and even in the
sense, like you're like, whatare you doing for yourself?
(24:47):
Like, yeah, I'm dating, youknow, but like taking bold moves
in that you know, and allowingmyself to be vulnerable, as
weird as I'm saying this outloud, there is some kind of joy
in that too, because like, okay,I don't know if I'm really
dating anymore, I don't know,but that's a whole nother story
or topic.
I don't want to go there, so,but I think that's the way I'm
(25:11):
redoing my home.
My wall is getting painted soon.
I just redid my whole bathroommyself.
I'm all on my own shelves.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
For people who aren't watching right now.
It's a lavender, it's reallybright purple grape almost.
Right now it looks lavender onthe.
Xanthum so yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
So my wall behind me is a very dark purple.
You probably seen it on Tik Tokor lives, and I'm painting it a
gray.
I want, I like a gray.
I'm going more of a muted, likea slate almost, but, and I'm
rearranging so like Iwallpapered my bathroom by
myself, I put up my own shelveswith a drill gun, like there's
(25:54):
things that I'm just like thisis what I, that's my own way.
So when you're like, what doyou do?
Like be me, be me and whateverday, and if that's some days
that I'm call those girls andI'm like let's grab drinks and
we can have great adventures,like you know, this last weekend
, go to Burbank for the day andthen go to Santa Monica for the
day, and then, you know, just dowhatever I can do.
(26:17):
In this part of the moments,that's my joy.
I guess I don't know.
They answer the question.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
No, you did.
I think that's helpful.
You know, and I think what?
What I heard is thatunderstanding what makes you
feel a sense of joy in themoment is really important, and
it may not look like what otherpeople, what it looks like for
other people, and I think that'sokay and that's when we really
(26:47):
know that we are.
We're moving for us and not forother people's expectations.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, I've even changed my work Like I don't
even feel like I'm flowing withwork like I used to, you know,
because I just feel lately Ican't even work unless I'm fully
in it.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Yes, you know, yes, yeah, yes, because we've talked
about that.
I feel part of what I'm.
I recognize now that I used tosay yes to everything because I
thought I had to and I don'tthink that served anyone.
(27:28):
So now I'm I'm reallydiscerning about what I say yes
to, yeah, and I think that comesfrom a place of healing, right
Like I don't think I'm healed,but I don't think I'll ever be
healed Cause there's alwaystrauma and things that happen to
you.
You know what I mean.
It's not like we're stagnant.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's not like Do you really always think there's
going to be new trauma?
I mean, I don't think that.
I don't know.
I think I'm taking on trauma.
I feel like I'm here.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
There will always be opportunities that come up and
because life is not stagnant,that there will be things that
will trigger me, like grief, forexample.
Um, you know I saw your postand I was yeah before.
Yeah, that day before yesterday.
I think it's a great example.
You know I was.
It's a New York, you havealternate side of the street
(28:21):
parking so I had to move my car.
So I'm sitting and I'm drivingup the block overcast day,
really chilly, classic fall dayon the East coast have my coffee
and as soon as I pull up, mprwas like playing some jazz.
The steering wheel was cold andI could smell the coffee and I
just, um, I lost it for a secondbecause it really hit me like,
(28:43):
oh shit, my dad is not comingback.
Is this yesterday?
Yeah, day before.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, I have to tell you what happened.
Go ahead.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
So it was yesterday and you know, my dad's been, my
dad's been gone for four years.
But in a moment, just in thatmoment, it felt like, oh my God,
like I just found out, you know, and for you know, if you've
lost somebody, you know, this ispart of Greek and that's and I
think that's what I mean.
It's not like I feel like I'mgonna be making the same
mistakes, but things will alwaysarise that allow you to
(29:14):
recognize that things willalways come up.
And I was.
You know, it wasn't like ittook me under, but it really was
just like oh yeah, this is withme forever.
And I felt like he was.
I'm using my hands if you can'tsee me, I'm using my hands
because I felt like he was infront, like he was right in
(29:35):
front of me, just in anotherdimension, if that makes sense.
So he was right there and Ithink maybe that's what I was
also feeling.
It's like he felt very closeand far away at the exact same
time, and I allowed myself tojust be in it and there was
almost a sense of joy being ableto miss him, like we miss
(29:57):
people that we loved a lot.
It would mean nothing if I wasjust like oh, whatever.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
There's no timeline in grief and there's no timeline
in healing, and I thought thereare people need to understand
and that you know it comes inwaves.
There's moments and there'stimes.
You know I was on the phonelast night with a friend and I
was sad like I was crying.
You know I was saying I have.
I mean, like you know, I have awedding coming up in Oaxaca.
It's a big family wedding.
I'm super happy for the couplegetting married but my family's
(30:26):
going really big and everybody'sthere.
Besides that, everybody's therewith a couple and then there's
I'm like I'm only actually, Ionly think I might be two, like
I'm one of the very few that aresingle.
Everybody's coupled up.
But regardless of that, I wastelling my friend, I was telling
him I was like I was cryingbecause I was like I miss my
grandfather.
(30:47):
Like I was like I almost did apost where it was just I was
trying to find a picture from mygrandpa that was so weird to
talk about grief and I saw ityesterday.
I was like I was literallygonna post this and I don't
think people understand.
I mean, I've kind of talkedabout like the fact that he was
my father.
In a sense he raised me and Ijust really miss him, like I was
(31:08):
like I don't, even though I'mgoing to this wedding and it's
really hard sometimes going tothings as where very people are
coupled up and you're like theonly single person.
It is kind of weird.
No offense to that, there's apart of it.
That's like I'm like I just Iwant my grandpa, like yeah, I'm
gonna cry.
I'm like you know, I want mygrandpa and so much of my own.
(31:31):
As we're talking about I'm justhaving these reflections as
we're talking about spiritualhealing.
A lot of my spiritual healingthat I had to do was allowing
myself to break out of the moldand role that was assigned to me
by being his granddaughter.
You know I was raised by him,so I was his granddaughter, but
yet I was his daughter and Itook on this very matriarch next
(31:52):
in line role for the family.
I've had to hold very highstandards in the sense where
people looked up to me.
They followed my lead in asense.
You know my marriage lead, myfamily lead, like my lead.
I held the family holidayparties.
I did all of it, and so when Iwent to, my spiritual healing
(32:12):
was not just ripping of my ownself, but it was also the family
kind of had to change theirstructure.
It was huge.
Like literally, people don'ttalk to certain people.
It was just a very big familystructural change.
But at the end of the day,going into this wedding, I'm
just like I don't know.
I don't even have words to sayother than like I just miss him.
(32:33):
I'm like I want my grandpa,like I want to see him there, I
want to be with him.
It's weird to say there's apart of me that feels I hold him
with, like energetic-wise, inmy own being, like in a room or
space, but like I don't want tohold him in my own being spaces.
(32:54):
I'm trying to put this in senselike I don't.
I feel like I've somehow takena part of this, but I also don't
want to take thatrepresentation either.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, so it's like I know that.
Like when people look or peoplelike that's kind of part of it,
you know, and they will likethere's people that'll easily
come to me and be like, oh mygosh, grandpa would be so, or
grandpa this or grandpa that,and I'm just like, yeah, but
(33:17):
there's a part of me that's likeI just I don't, that's a part.
I'm looking at where I'm goingto Mexico and I'm like, yeah,
there's a lot of triggers comingup for me.
There's a lot of triggers inmissing my grandfather in this
amazing place that holds so muchof our culture and he loves so
much, like it's triggering.
(33:38):
You know, it's triggering forthat.
It's triggering because he'snot there.
It's triggering because I'm notI'm not married, like I don't.
You know, I'm like do I want toget married again?
Yes, like, but also being at awedding is very uncomfortable,
you know, like it's triggeringbecause of that.
It's just a lot of things andat the end of the day, even
though he's not here, you stillwant someone.
(33:58):
I still want him there to be mybackbone.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
So I saw your post and I waslike oh, my God, I was going to
post something around grief andI was looking for a picture and
I'm like, oh, like I don't knowhow to explain that.
So, yeah, yesterday I crashed,I cried and then I felt bad for
this person I was talking to,because I'm like I just dumped a
(34:21):
whole lot of emotions on you,but at the end of the night I
was like okay, I'm going to bed.
It's like nine is like goodnight.
Like I'm so sorry, like Ididn't say sorry to them, but
I'm thinking it like I gave youmy emotions.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Yeah, sometimes we have to do that, right, we have
to.
Yeah, oh my God.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Literally they just text.
You guys like energy and timingis so weird.
Fyi, the first time I wastalking about dumping my crap on
just texted.
So I.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Yeah, it's a journey.
I think it is a journey.
Speaker 1 (35:06):
Is it weird and perverse, perverse?
I don't think it is to say thatwhen you're allow yourself to
step out of the perspectiveactually the one being healed,
it's actually a really beautifuljourney.
It's it has its highs, it hasits lows, it has its muddiness
and long depths that you're justlike.
(35:26):
I don't even know if I can findthe top of this, but there's a
beauty to it.
There's a beauty to it and it'slike I have this image of like
when the ocean is mad and it'sdark not clear, but dark, you
know and the waves are rough andyou don't know which direction.
There's a beauty to that, right, like you look at it, and
there's a beauty to it.
And I think, I think in all ofit that it's like healing is
(35:49):
ugly, healing is.
I don't think it's pretty, butI think, at the end of the day,
if you allow yourself to like,stand back, you're like it can
be beautiful.
I'm proud of who I am.
I'm proud of the mess that Ihad, the mess that I made.
I'm proud of like, yeah, Iripped shit up, like I'll do it
again.
I'll do it again, you know why?
(36:09):
Because, at the end of the day,I have kids that are following
my lead.
I'll do it again for my cousinsthat have come to me and said
I'm really was scared of whatyou chose in your life, because
I saw myself Exactly and I knewthat you know.
I do it again for the oldergeneration that has come up and
said thank you, because I didn'thave the words to speak out
about my own abilities and giftsand another subject.
(36:31):
You know it's like I would do itagain for my clients, like I
would never choose to not do itagain.
But it was hard and it still ishard and I know I'm in another
stage in life now where peopleare like we wanna know about
your dating, we wanna know aboutthe healing part of this, we
wanna hear it.
You know I give it what I cangive it.
(36:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I think it's always ongoing, depending upon where
you are in life too, and that'swhy it's hard.
You know, I think just when wethink we get to a place where
you think you have it allfigured out, you know, something
else comes in to trip you up.
But I think that's light, Ithink that's what life is, and I
think if we let go of the ideathat things have to be perfect,
(37:24):
right.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Let's just get rid of it.
I don't like we seriously doneed to get rid of that word.
I hate that word.
It's a horrible word.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And it's not helpful.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
Who made the rule?
I mean we all, but don't answerthat that's a whole talk.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
We all made the rule.
We know who made it, but it'snot.
It's just so harmful.
It's so harmful.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
And it's such a thing we chase, like, how many
listeners sitting here, how manyof you guys are chasing
perfectionism, perfectionism onwhose rules that's?
I feel we should have coveredthat topic, but like it's a
horrible thing, there's noproblem.
There's your journey, there'smy journey.
We don't look alike.
We may mirror some things, butthere's no less to it and
(38:14):
there's no timeline.
So we need to like embrace,embrace, patience and, oh no, go
ahead.
Speaker 2 (38:23):
How's that?
Having children talks abouthealing.
I can't remember what book itis, but she says you know, if it
were easy.
She talks about healing asenlightenment right, and she's
like if we could just getenlightened by snapping our
fingers.
I mean she said we'd beinsufferable, like people would
(38:44):
just be insufferable becauseyou'd look at people who are
suffering, like what's wrongwith you, why can't you just get
it together?
So I think there's also somecompassion that gets built into
this process as well, that wecan see the suffering in other
people and be compassionatebecause we've experienced it for
(39:07):
ourselves, or at least that'sthe hope as we're on this
journey.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
It's hard, though, to look at your inner demons and
to hold that mirror up toyourself and be like.
You know.
That's why I tell people frommy job for living, I'm like I
got you.
I'll hold the mirror up for alittle while, let you see
yourself.
You know that sounds so bad,isabel, but you get what I say
when I do.
But you know I'll hold it upand like, but it's hard for us
to see our inner demons and whatwe've created and what we've
(39:33):
chosen to be a part of.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Yeah, to sit with the shame or embarrassment or just
things that make usuncomfortable things that we
were told that we should feeluncomfortable about, and I think
that's also part of it, right?
It's that constant balancebetween sitting with yourself
and then recognizing narrativesthat you are fed about the
things that you're looking atand somehow making you less them
and making you less perfectversus.
(39:58):
This is just who you are andyou did what you did because you
needed to at that time.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
You brought in a crazy thing earlier when we were
talking about I think youmentioned something about
religion too, like how religioncan bring aspects into us that
we've chosen believe to affectour healing.
I was listening to a talkearlier on, was it last week?
Yeah, it was last week when myprofessor was talking about
spirituality, the growth ofspirituality versus religion,
(40:23):
and I'm just thinking about itright now because I'm like, well
, we're talking about spiritualhealing.
I don't know where I was goingwith my thought, but I was
trying to think about, like howshe was talking about healing
and I'm like I think peoplechose the spiritual route at
times to heal because it's lessconstraint than the religious
aspect.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
Yeah, that part is yeah, and I didn't grow up with
religion but and I didn't growup with spirituality either, but
there's a gentleness that Ithink I have with myself that I
did not have before I was not.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I think I was more of a bee when I was religious than
I was spiritual, Like no, Imean.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
I was all sharp, sharp edges.
That's a great story, yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:14):
Yeah, everything had to be black and white.
Follow these lines, things likethat.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yes, there was no wiggle room, not for me and not
for anybody else.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
No, no, yeah, it was literally fire and brimstone or
heaven.
There was no me.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Yeah, yeah.
And the harm in that right, theharm in that inflexibility.
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Yeah, that's like a whole another conversation.
I think people would be reallysurprised to say, like when I
told you like I look back on thechurch that I was a part of and
the way that I would drill mychildren at the dining room
table, like I'm telling you guys, we followed a thing where I
was like why was God made, whatis he here, how is he present?
Like, and they had to be likeomnipresent, omnipotent, like it
was like a drill, like bomb,bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb.
(42:01):
It was crazy.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
I was a little crazy, just a little bit, but we, you
know, we grow.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
We grow.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
And that's why it's hard.
You know, I don't know anythingelse.
I mean, I'm like we said why isit hard?
We're like I don't know, guys,because you're learning all the
time, you're growing, you thinkyou got your shit figured out
and then all of a sudden, youdon't got shit figured out,
that's it, that's it.
All of a sudden, you go fromlike ah to like fudge, what just
(42:39):
happened, like it literally islike that.
And then you know what thebeautiful thing is is that
you'll take from what youlearned last time and you'll be
like I got this.
You will.
I got this.
I'm gonna approach this timedifferently.
And I got this.
I made it out of that.
I'm gonna make it out of this.
I got this, even though rightnow I was telling Onika earlier
that it sucks sometimes beingalone.
(43:00):
I think I've learned so much inmy life how to be alone.
In the retrospect.
You asked a really goodquestion like well, weren't you
alone then too?
And I think the reality is isI've always been alone.
And, like at my childhood, Ilook at my marriage, I look at
my last relationship, like I'vealways been alone and I think at
the end of it it's like I gotthis, like I got this.
This is who I am.
I got this and, yeah, I don'tthink I'll be alone forever, if
(43:26):
that's a whole nother time.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I don't think you're alone now, and I think that's
also what's important to me, andwe need people, and you don't
need a lot of people, you know,for those of you out there, I
think sometimes we think we needthis whole giant community, but
sometimes you just need oneperson who can see you, and that
makes it hard.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
That's our best community right now.
Like I was thinking about thesedays, I was like I have the
best community I've ever had andmaybe consist of three to four
people and it is all in.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
Yeah, yeah, my love.
Yeah, I do feel like I haveplaces where I can go to be seen
and to feel, to feel held, andthat was not something that I
could do for a while.
I didn't feel like safe enoughthat people could hold space for
me and that wasn't the same.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
That's a big one.
I like that.
You said that I don't feel Ididn't feel safe enough for
people to hold space for me.
Yeah, I didn't.
That's big and I think that's abig thing for a lot of us that
we don't feel safe enough forpeople to hold space for us.
We don't feel safe enough toeven let people see us.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
I didn't feel safe enough inside myself, yeah, and
I think that kept me away fromme and also from finding
community.
And I think when I was able tobe vulnerable with myself and
even say that out loud, itshifted a lot for me.
Like before, even five yearsago, I had said those words out
(44:56):
loud, I would be in a crumpledpile on the floor right now in
tears because it was so raw andI think it's still there to some
degree.
I think some things in us don'tchange.
We just learn how to make peacewith them.
Right, like the grief.
Grief changes, but it doesn'tgo away and I think I think I'm
(45:18):
discerning about who I'm closewith, like in who I share with.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
I think that's part of healing too, is understanding
that my time and my space andmy energy is valuable.
You have a right to bediscerning of that.
That's part of healing, I think, yeah, you've been taught that
we weren't allowed to do that,right?
I mean, we go back into, likeyou say, black and brown and the
fact of, like, we weren'ttaught boundaries, weren't
allowed to have boundaries, likeyou know.
Then, allowing yourself to kindof explore and do that, that's
(45:45):
helpful.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Yeah, and being you know, I made some mistakes, like
sometimes I was too close withpeople that I shouldn't have
been, and there are people Iprobably should have confided in
and I didn't.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:59):
I think I want to say too in this, in the spiritual
aspect of it just because youknow what I'm saying, just
because somebody is spiritual orsays they're spiritual doesn't
necessarily mean they're a valueof your time or space or energy
.
Yeah, and I think that goesinto healing.
So when you're healing, even asyou're healing and you're
growing, you're knowing yourself.
The most important thing is youtrust your intuition and your
(46:20):
instinct, and if somebody'sprojecting an energy that it's
just not, it's not for you, it'snot for you.
And I say that because I thinkthat we can be trustworthy of
people because of titles givenor because people say they are
yeah, yeah, like I knew when Imet you, I was like, oh, she
could hold space for me, yeah, Iliked you when I met you.
(46:42):
I remember meeting you and Iwas like oh, we could talk
forever.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
I was like, yeah, no, I remember that too and that's
not.
You know, it's not always thecase and I think that's fine,
but I think it's.
I think that's a big part ofalso what makes it hard, where I
think.
For me I was also.
Once I started on this journey,I was afraid to make mistakes,
going back to perfectionism.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the thing, though, is
that it's okay to make mistakes.
I talk about that all the time.
I don't even that's anotherword I don't like mistakes.
I don't believe we makemistakes.
I believe that we get, we getopportunity to grow from, and
that's it, at the end of the day, right.
We grow from them, and that's.
I don't believe in mistakeslike that.
What'd you learn Great?
(47:28):
Did you learn it?
Yes, okay, done, move on, moveon.
I think the only mistake thatwe can make is when we learn
from it and we redo it again.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
Yeah, I told you last week.
That's when my boss is likeokay, you make a mistake, great,
don't make it again, right?
Speaker 1 (47:46):
Right, that's it.
That's all the, I think, quotethe mistake we have.
It's like oh well, you letyourself do it again.
You know he was good with theone liners like that.
Speaker 2 (47:56):
He would do like a high low of the day.
He would say like what's yourhigh, what's your low?
High, lows of the day.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
It was real.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
It was very cool to have a boss like ask you those
questions.
Like it was unusual.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
I like my low of the day.
Those are good ones.
Those are good ones.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, yeah, he had some.
He had some good ones.
Yeah, he was tough, he wasfunny, good, all right.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Any other tips before we close it out?
No, I think that's it.
All right, guys, I think that'severything.
If you have questions aboutspiritual healing, let us know.
I think there's a lot of layersto it.
I think that we've covered alot of layers in our last
podcast, even because we'vetalked about it.
Even as you're healing right,especially as a black, brown
person, you heal, you'll findfreak I got to go heal some
(48:42):
other shit that was been inthere for generations and years.
So I think it's just allowingyourself that grace, that
patience, and to fill into it,and don't compare, don't compare
.
Yeah, all right, talk to youguys later.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Bye, bye, everyone, bye Bye.
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