August 21, 2023 • 47 mins
Are you ready for an inspiring spiritual journey, one that could redefine your life's purpose? Our guest this week, a born teacher who's navigated a labyrinth of spiritual practices and career paths, lays bare her life’s journey and how she finally embraced her spiritual gifts. Raised in a strict Christian household, she had to learn to hide these gifts. But now, she openly leads a life centered around spirituality and serves as a voice for BIPOC in the spiritual community.
The conversation moves fluidly from the dynamics between religion and spirituality to the concept of life's purpose. As the guest's life has been shaped by spirituality, she takes us through her variety of roles and experiences on her way to becoming a teacher, a role she sees as her true calling. We also delve into joy's unique individuality, where each person defines and owns their joy in different ways, and discuss our collective obligation to respect this individuality.
We close our discussion with a poignant conversation about the decolonization of language around spirituality and life purpose. Addressing the cultural bias and misconceptions surrounding the concept of life purpose, we discuss how the dominant culture often devalues periods of life without a specific purpose. We leave you with a promise - a promise to continue having these thought-provoking conversations around personal joy, spirituality, and life purpose, inviting you to join us on this enlightening journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Motherland .
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to Motherland .
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So, isabelle, I have a question for you.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
OK.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Do you think that your spirituality has helped you
sort of find your life'spurpose, or has it gotten in the
way?
Yes, no.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
OK, you're right.
All right, so I think this goesback.
I think, ok, really quick, I'mlike, yes, it's definitely
helped me find my life's purpose, because I'm living my life's
purpose based on spirituality,but, no, because I resisted it
for long because of spirituality.
So, yeah, like I think you know, I was raised in a Christian
(01:11):
household and I attended achurch that was very against
what I'm going to call the giftsof the spirit, right?
So what I do, and even thoughI've had my ability since I was
six, I definitely pulled back alot from them and hid them and
hid them.
I hid them for so many years,even though my family knew.
(01:32):
I just kind of was like shh,you don't talk about it, it's
hiding.
So I don't think I ever allowedmyself to really follow it till
later on in my life and then,even after that, it was like
this slow sliding door of like Ikind of like this I think this
is what I meant to do.
Oh, no, it's not, I'm going tostep back.
Oh, yes, it is Like there's alot of back and forth so it
hindered me from connecting tomy life purpose when I could
(01:55):
have done it a lot earlier.
But now, absolutely not now.
It's like it is my life purpose.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Right.
So when you started to open upto it and you said that
spirituality got in the way,like, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
OK, I'm laughing because you guys have to
understand, listeners don't knowwhen I talk.
This is going to make me soundschizophrenic.
Right now, when I talk, I canhear my guides answering for me
and I'm always like, ok, wait, Iwant to answer the question.
So I can hear my guidesliterally like, let me, let us
answer that.
And I'm like, well, no, I wantto.
(02:37):
So if you're talking about thepart of my life, let's say,
right, like I'm in the churchI'm teaching the Bible, I'm
doing all of that.
That was the part of me thatwas like that spiritual part,
that religion.
So I guess not necessarilyspirituality, but the that was
going to be my follow up,religion got in the way of me
seeing spirituality in my lifepurpose.
Ok, spirituality blocked mefrom my life purpose because of
(03:01):
the connotations that I put orwas taught on spirituality.
So then that kind of was my ownthing that I had to get over.
But I don't think itnecessarily blocked my life
purpose, because I think once Ifully understood it I was just
like here we go, I'm heading.
So I think I think that's thebetter terminology was religion
blocked it, spiritualitynecessarily?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And is your spirituality, your religion.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, but no, because how do you guys want to?
That's a good question, I knowI'm like wow, that's a really
good question.
I'm like well, how would youdefine religion, that?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
is actually.
That was going to be my nextquestion.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
How would you define religion?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I would say it was a specific doctrine that people
follow.
That's what I would think itwould be too.
Are you going to look up theOxford English?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
definition OK, let's see what it says.
What is Oxford dictionary?
Ok.
What does the Google say?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It says.
Oed says the belief and worshipof a superhuman power or powers
, especially a god or gods.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
But no.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And then a second definition a particular system
of faith and worship.
And then a third is a pursuitor interest to which someone
describes supreme importance.
I don't like any of thosedefinitions.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't OK, here's near the left.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
OK, go ahead.
A personal, set orinstitutionalized system of
religious attitudes.
I hate when they use the wordinside the definition their
service or worship or of God orthe supernatural commitment or
devotion to religious faith orobservance, a cause, principle
or system of beliefs held withardor and faith.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So here's what I'm getting from what you're reading
Is that, no matter whatdefinition you're meaning, it's
a specific way of worshiping.
Whatever it is you're choosingto worship, yeah, it's a way of
doing things and I don't thinkspirituality is a specific way.
I always tell people I'm likeit's a way of what works for you
, it's a way of what works foryou, and sometimes it'll flow a
(05:26):
certain way and then you're likewait, that's not the way I flow
anymore.
Let me switch my flow up.
So I don't think thatspirituality is necessarily my
religion.
It's my practice.
I think that's a littledifferent.
Like it's my practice and it'swhat I choose.
I know this came up before in aconversation.
I mean, I do believe in God.
That's what I call my higherpower, but I also don't think
(05:47):
you have to call God God, like Idon't think that's the same.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, I don't say God , I think that's where I was
taught.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But again, like I said, I don't think they need a
name.
I say creator a lot more thanGod.
I say creator because it justmakes sense to me.
Creator makes sense to me moreUniverse.
I say universe, but no, I don'tthink it's my religion because
(06:16):
I like what I'm hearing rightnow from spirit.
I don't think it's my religionbecause I don't worship myself
and it's ultimately.
You are creator, you are divine.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
That is a really.
I need you to say that againbecause I really like that quote
.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I don't think it's a religion because I don't worship
myself.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, and I think I see universe because of also the
way that I was raised, whichwas with an atheist who was
adamant that there was no God.
So I think for me, saying Godfor a long time felt like I was
going against my family andsomehow universe became a
(06:58):
comfortable way of me sayingthat.
But I still believe that it's aforce, there's a force, there's
a universal force thatcompletely believe that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
No, I definitely believe that.
I definitely believe that it'sinteresting because, being and
doing my job as a medium, Ilearned that, like when you
expand above, you don't see aman sitting on a throne, like
you don't see, right, you havethis, this way of just expansion
, right?
Like I am now just a part ofall of this.
So I don't think, like I said,I just I think creators just
(07:32):
easier, or universe is easier,that's for me.
Do you think spirituality iskind of got in your way of your
life purpose Um?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
no, I think spirituality saved my life.
I think that when I walked awayfrom my old career, I was
spiritually bankrupt, um, and Ithink that practicing yoga was
(08:03):
like my entry point, like when Iwould practice at a studio.
I think it's one thing I do missabout going to my old yoga
studio, where I used to live,because I would call yoga on
Sunday was like my church, likeit felt holy to me, um, going to
this place at the same time onSundays and with the people that
I was with, it was, you know,we all kind of acknowledged each
(08:25):
other and there was something Ithink sacred in that, um, but I
think it's, I think it saved mebecause, um, I don't think I
had, I think I was sort offloating Um, and I had always
been a seeker as a kid.
You know I've talked about howI was always very curious and I
think because I I didn't haveanything around me, I always
(08:47):
felt kind of untethered, um, andjust sort of off, and so when I
found it, I I think I gotreally connected to you know, um
, my purpose and who I am, orreconnected or re remembering
you know what was always alreadythere.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
So I'm like, how would ithinder somebody, do you think?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I think um it could hinder them, because then we
could talk about spiritualbypassing Right.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That's exactly where my mind was going, because I was
like the only thing that I'mlike how would spiritual hero
would be?
The fact is the spiritualbypassing which you've kind of
already said with negativemotions or you know, um, not
wanting to embrace fear, orwhatever it is that may come up
for you.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Or you know, um, we haven't talked about this or
sort of using it to isolateyourself, I think, from life and
other people.
Like cutting people out, maybe,who should be in your life or
who are, you know, helpful orwho aren't harmful in your life,
but because they don't practicewhat you do right, do you not
(09:57):
have them in your life.
So I think maybe it could getin the way of that.
Or, if it stops you fromdifferent experiences, that
could really be um powerful foryou.
Yeah, and you're probably toget in the way.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I get that.
I mean, I think I look at mine.
Mine's kind of interesting.
I'm like looking around becauseI'm thinking, but it's like I
look at my life and like doingthis, Like this is what I do, so
it's kind of hard for it to belike, does it hinder you?
I'm like no, it doesn't.
But I also work with a lot ofindividuals that want to do what
I do, you know, but they don'tdo it because they're worried
about all the other worries thatcome with it Money.
(10:37):
I don't know what people aregoing to say or what people are
going to think how it's going tolook afterwards.
You know what I mean.
Um, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Wait, I think it did get in the way of what I did,
and I think that's why I don'tdo it anymore with Rikers.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Why.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Um, I don't and I think, but I think it was it got
in the way, but in a way thatwas helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Or I don't do what I do anymore.
I think I was on.
You know my path and mypractice.
You know I don't call I don'tcall myself a Buddhist because
I'm not but Buddhist teachingsare important, yogic teachings
are important.
Listening to the universe hasbecome important and I think for
a long time I used to use allof that as sort of support for
me to do the work that I wasdoing, going inside, you know,
(11:24):
one of the most notorious jailsin the country, but then, um,
that sort of was my guidingforce, but then no more than I
practiced and that I was reallyopening up to what I was doing.
I felt like I couldn't keepdoing that and and have my
practice, because by going in Iwas supporting the system.
(11:45):
So the same thing that I wasusing to support the work that I
was doing actually stopped mefrom doing the work that I was
doing because I couldn't upholdit anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It's the very thing that I'm trying to say.
What do you mean you?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
couldn't uphold it.
Why couldn't you uphold itanymore?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Because I felt like I was making the system palatable
for people.
People would hear oh, you teachyoga and meditation at Rikers,
that's really cool.
It's not really cool.
Rikers should not exist.
It should be completely burneddown to the ground.
So when people hear that, itallows them to think well, maybe
it's not so bad, and I don'twant anybody to ever think that
(12:28):
I felt like I was contributingto the problem rather than
stepping away.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
But don't you think that, like on a side note, just
saying this don't you think thatcorrectional facilities should
help to grow people rather thankeep them?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
still, no, I don't think correctional facilities
should exist the way that theyare.
So no, because correctionalfacilities were designed from
slave patrols, I do.
So you can't reform that ifthat's the foundation, so it has
to be completely reimagined.
Well, yes to that.
Yes to that, I do agree withthat.
So here's the other thing.
(13:04):
I don't think that peopleshouldn't.
I think that people shouldstill do what I did, like.
The person who has my job nowis amazing.
I know her, we're really goodfriends.
I'm really glad that she'sthere.
It was something that I couldno longer do, but it's not a
judgment on her, because shedoes it and she's the person who
should be doing it.
And I think I should have beenthe person who was doing it at
(13:25):
the time too.
But I think, as I evolved, myspiritual practice was like you
can't do this anymore, like youcan't do this and be on your
path, and that's what happened,but don't you think that you're
on your path now, though?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So then it goes back to the fact that did it really?
Did it really take you off path?
Because you're on your path now, Right?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I think it changed.
It maybe changed my path.
Yeah, exactly, if I wanted tokeep that position and sort of
grow, then, yes, it would havehindered it, but I think I
needed to do what I needed to do.
I don't think I could have, Icould be writing my book as
(14:08):
freely as I'm writing it If Iwas there too.
I couldn't, I don't think Icould feel like I could say the
things that I could say.
You know, and people were likewatching my social media
accounts and all those kinds ofthings that part of me would say
I don't care, and I still saida lot that I probably quote
unquote shouldn't have accordingto like my contract.
(14:29):
But yeah, I think there was a,there's a freedom that I feel
like I have now Right, and Ithink my spirit, my spirituality
, freed me to do that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think a good part of this that I'm actually
getting from this conversationis those that even in this line
of work or in whatever work,maybe this is your life purpose.
Maybe you're not a spiritualteacher but you're a therapist
or you're serving some otherkind of career role that is your
life purpose but that you knowthis is my life purpose, but
maybe there's not like acontentment factor in it.
Or you're feeling like we kindof talked in the last episode
(15:03):
about you know allowing theseasons to change that.
How do you?
I just hadn't, I lost it.
But basically, like in yourlife purpose, it changes,
sometimes even in the context ofwhat you're doing.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So it's like you're still in very much your life
purpose, as I think Rikers wasvery much.
Your life purpose is just theway that you're showing up and
serving is completely differentnow.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It's completely different and I think that's
because of my practice.
I think my spiritualitydirectly impacted that.
Yeah, 100%.
I do wonder if I would havebeen a better leader not better
if I would have been a morecompassionate leader if I had
(15:48):
had my spiritual practice in myold career.
I have had to nurse and healsome regret over that, because I
was young and a woman and blackand I think I felt like I had
to act a certain way in order tocommand respect and I wasn't as
compassionate as I am now and Iyou know I've had to forgive
(16:12):
myself for that, but I wonder ifthat could have helped me
actually in some ways with myteens, but I don't think it
would have helped me getpromoted.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You're bringing up so many different aspects right
now because, like, I didn't eventhink about all these little
things are coming up because Irecently was having this
conversation with somebody.
So in my own life, purposeright, and what I do I mean we
all kind of know what I do, butwhat I've had a realization in
the last couple of days is thevoice that I've taken on for the
community and it's like peopleare interviewing me more people
(16:44):
want to interview me more voiceon talk about the BIPOC, talk
about the BIPOC unity andspiritual.
And I think a lot of times,especially in my position where
I've had to have my own thoughtprocess, is this a hindrance to
my career?
Like, could this be a hindrancein the voice that I'm taking on
(17:04):
right, because I'm being such amajor I'm going to be, because
I know the direction I'm goingand it's creating growth in that
, which I know is somethingpassionate to my heart that
definitely needs to be spokenabout and it needs to be
prevalent.
But yeah, you may.
Just I don't know you made mekind of look at it as, like you
face some of these things, likeI kind of was listening to you
(17:25):
and I'm like how spiritual Iaffected your life purpose and
I'm like, well, no, because I'mmaking the choices that are
needed to make.
But if I was to choosedifferent, saying you know I
want love all, fit in thisbubble.
I do love all, but you knowwhat I mean Fit in this bubble,
provide positive feedback.
Only only look at the positiveside of things Then it
definitely would affect my lifepurpose.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, and I think it's also I guess too, it's
staying true to your lane ofwhat your spirituality is for,
because you know I'm all for.
I don't necessarily like people, but I do love them, and I
think that is a big part of mypractice.
You know, I mean people arejerks, I mean I don't love you,
(18:11):
but you know a lot of people arereally not cool and I think,
honestly, working at Riker hasreally opened me up to that,
like I love a lot of people whoI do not like, and I think
that's a big practice for me,and I wish I had had that in my
(18:33):
other role as a retail leader.
I think that would have servedme a little bit differently.
I don't think my compassionwould have helped me, to be
honest with you, which is sad.
I had to lack a lot ofcompassion in order to make some
(18:53):
decisions that I had to make,and I think when I couldn't make
them anymore, that's when Iknew it was time to leave.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Well, I think anything with, like the way I
live my life now would havedefinitely changed any of my
past roles or careers that I youknow that I was in but doing my
line of work like it's alwaysbeen on my like, I said it was
always with something I wantedto do.
When I finally made the choicethat was on the side, I just
kind of, like I said, kept ithidden and then I would quit a
job to like, let me go pursuethis, I'd quit another job,
(19:21):
pursue this, and it always mightbe my go back to until I was
like, okay, I'm in.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Wow, but what are the other things that you did
before you were doing this fulltime?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, before I had children.
I mean, you know, I actuallyI've always worked like I moved
out of the house very, veryyoung.
Like my senior year I moved out, I lived with my sister, lived
on my own.
I carried three jobs while inhigh school, wow.
So I worked at the smallbusiness development center,
Right, and that was a reallygreat job.
(19:52):
And then I worked at retailjobs.
So I did retail off and on foryears and then I ended up
becoming a corporate trainer bythe time I was pregnant with my
son.
Great job.
I founded my actual position.
I created it.
I ran it for a big company.
It was great, you know, 20years old corporate trainer, and
(20:14):
they wanted me to travel theworld and I had a kid and I was
like this is before.
We could do remote, obviously,right, you know, no, I can't do
it.
And actually the lady that tookover my job now is like CEO of
the company.
But I have to say that was adifferent life.
That was a different life.
I mean I made so much moneyLike you're talking six digits
in 1999.
(20:35):
Like do you know how much moneythat was back then?
Like that's insane, anyways.
So I went from that and then Idid.
I've done everything webdeveloper, computer programmer.
Yeah, I'm trying to think whatelse I've done Shoe sales,
preschool teacher, daycareworker.
(20:56):
Preschool teaching now is mygo-to, that I pretty much will
fall back on, just cause I lovekids, yeah, makes sense now
cause I'm a teacher.
Anyways, I look at myself as,and then that's this yeah, and
I've had my feet in like all thewaters, yeah, so those are what
I've done, wow.
But I can look at my path andsee how it's always kind of been
(21:18):
back to teaching.
Teaching, I mean, corporatetrainer was a teacher, preschool
teacher was a teacher.
Like you know, everything hasbeen like in a teaching role,
which it's funny cause you madea comment, like I remember, one
time my mentor was like you'remeant to be a teacher and
spiritual teacher.
I was so mad at her Wow, so madat her for saying that.
Why are you mad?
I think it wasn't thinking.
(21:38):
It was egotistical of me towant that.
I thought in my own head, thereyou go, how spirituality
effected it.
I thought the belief that youas a teacher was ego.
Huh, I was like, no, that's tooequal ego, my ego doesn't need
that.
Wow, isn't that interesting.
So there you are.
I resisted becoming my ownpractice and being my spiritual
(22:01):
teacher because spiritualityteaches not to have the ego into
it, and I believe that was myego, so I resisted it for years
because of that.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Then I realized it wasn't my ego, but I thought it
was, and so I didn't want tostep into anything, because who
am I to be seen?
Who am I?
And that wasn't a worth thing.
That was more of like ego beingafraid of ego, or being afraid
of, like you know, thinking itwas.
Like I was wrong to think thatI could do this, so I held
(22:36):
myself back.
So I think that's one of thosethings that you look at.
You know that people don't makechoices, because I think now,
as I'm headless in thisconversation, you think like, oh
, people want to follow theirlife purpose, but for those of
us that, like I'm going to callthem the little baby spirituals,
because I don't know what elsename to give them, but in the
sense of, like you know, oh, Igot to wait for it to flow to me
(22:58):
, or, oh, it's too much of anego to think that I could do
this, or, you know, I think Ithought that too, you know
different little things of itthen definitely think that your
spirituality might be holdingyou back from actually embracing
what is rightfully yours toembrace.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, yeah, I've had a lot of struggle.
Hang on.
I think my dog unplugged mycomputer.
She's lying next to me and shelaid on the cord.
I think.
I thought, well, who am I to totalk about spiritual?
(23:36):
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not special.
Yeah, I'm special.
I used to get hung up oneducation and certification too.
That was like a big thing.
Am I qualified?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Well, that's a good point, because I think a lot of
people do get hung up oncertifications and oh, I'm
certified or you know whateverit is, and it's like, okay, I
don't think that means anything,yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, there's a big debate about that in the yoga
world.
You know, people have there's a200 hour yoga teacher training
and there's like yoga alliance,which is this organization that
sort of validates you as a yogateacher, but they don't do
anything.
They do nothing for yogateachers.
There's no support whatsoever.
But all of these yoga studiosall across the country are like,
(24:27):
well, you are registered yogateacher with yoga alliance, well
, for what?
And you know, and you havepeople who come from lineages of
yoga teachers from like Indiawho aren't qualified to teach
yoga here because they didn't dosome 200 hour training when
it's been in their lineageforever.
You know, it's, it's you.
(24:47):
I think you have to askyourself, when you're talking
about certifications for certainthings, who's certifying and
why are they certifying and whatare they certifying for?
What are they trying to get?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
You see some crazycertifications out there that
I'm just like you don't need tocert for that or you don't need
to cert for this, yeah like.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I did a training for yoga for cancer where it was
heavily science based and Ilearned all about cancer and
that was really important toknow, like the physiological and
scientific impact that cancerhad on cells, and I could
understand why these practiceswere helpful.
That made a lot of sense to me.
That was a hundred hours andthat was well worth it.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I don't think I've taken any crazy ones.
I mean I've taken Theta, I'vetaken I've taken Reiki, I've
taken my life coaching, myhealth coaching, but those I
those were relevant, like thoseactually helped me.
I think I think my lifecoaching certification really
helped me to learn how to listento people better than I was
doing before it.
(25:52):
So I think I learned how tolisten to people and and connect
, like pick the conversationsapart into okay, I can see where
we need to direct this or wherethe issues are laying.
So I think they've all beenreally beneficial.
I don't know, I follow my gutand stuff and I'm like you don't
need that, you don't need that.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I don't know, but I think there's a lot of crazy
things out there that I see andI'm just like you don't need to
be certified.
I think somebody was like whoit was the other day I remember
watching I'm like she'scertifying and connecting to
your higher self, like it waslike something stupid.
I was like what the heck?
Like, how's that a cert?
Like it was just somethingweird like that, and I was, yeah
, what does it make sense to me?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
like that's when you're wondering is this just
really connected with capitalismor are you trying to make some
right yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
and I'm like who told you that you could qualify same
question a cert for this?
And like what does your certget me?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
That's where I think we get really heavy on, you know
.
I think that's dominant culturebeing really heavy on the
subject of worshiping you know adegree or the written word and
all of these things and waysthat you know.
The wisdom that I think I havegained over the past, you know
(27:12):
12-15 years that I've sort ofbeen on this path has been worth
so much more than the tons oftrainings that I did before in
my other life and I did somereally incredible trainings you
know that were really worthwhile.
But there is nothing that thewisdom of working at Rikers I
mean that was like a doctorate,yeah, and spirituality in life,
(27:41):
right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Okay, so I have a question for you do you think
that everybody has a lifepurpose and do you think that
we're all meant to find our lifepurpose?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You know, I guess, I guess we we didn't even ask this
question, and I think this is agood one like, what is a life
purpose?
Anyway, you know, like, is it apath?
You know, if you were talkingabout Dharma, right, like if
we're talking about definitionof Dharma, that is, you know
it's a path, and I thinksometimes we hear path and we
(28:09):
think this lofty goal and Ithink that's getting caught up
sort of in capitalism in oursociety, that it has to be like
oh, my life purpose is to do X,y and Z, and that's really
grandiose, when your lifepurpose could be, you know, to
live a satisfying life thatcauses the least amount of harm.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Right, I had this time, that's that's for I was
having a life purpose.
This guy was like, what do youdo?
And I told him what I did andthen he was like, oh well,
that's awesome, I just went forthe nine to five, whatever.
And I was like, yeah, butyou're enjoying your life right
outside of work.
And he goes, yeah, and I go,maybe that's exactly what you
need to be doing.
Like it doesn't have to be yoursole jobs purpose.
(28:48):
Like I don't think that yourlife purpose has to be your job.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Like when everybody talks about past lives and
everybody claims that they werelike a king or a queen not
everybody could have beenroyalty like some of us were
just living our lives out here,right.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Oh, I've seen some past lives where I was not a
king.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I was like you know, like I think there's this, this
sense of you know.
Yeah, everything has to bereally grand, and I think it's
really grand.
I think it's a big deal that Icause less harm in the world
than I did before I starteddoing all of this work by myself
, and that's huge.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
It is Well.
You use the word path.
What path?
That's the thing, that's myquestion.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I think path for me is sort of just living my life,
trying not to cause harm, and Ithink it's a journey.
I think I consider sort of mylife now is it like a journey
that I'm on.
It's not going anywhere, youknow it's, it's going to when I
transition, you know, out ofhere and I think it's um.
So yeah, I think path is justanother way to save life for me.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Okay, I'm asking spirit Mike is path.
I said are we always in thesame path?
I was asking spirit.
Spirit said no, you're notalways on the same path.
Your path changes.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yes, it's not, it's not.
It's not like, it's not likethe other road by any stretch of
the imagination.
It is very sort of amorphousand you know it goes where it
goes.
It's not.
Yeah, I don't mean linear, Idon't mean it it's.
It goes in a direction thatwhen I say path, I could mean up
(30:28):
or down, or side or back orfront, or yesterday or tomorrow,
or you know, or now.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
So and I think the same to say about purpose.
I don't think your purpose isalways the same.
I think your Changes.
I can hear spirit.
I'm actually very intriguedwith what I'm hearing.
I kind of want to dive in withthem.
But they're saying I know howdo you guys want to wear this?
They're saying an averageperson will have at least three
different Purposes within theirlife purpose within a time.
(30:54):
So, like you live threedifferent.
They're saying path per se orpurposes in your lifetime.
It doesn't remain the same.
It can't remain the same.
Like that goes back into whatwe're talking about.
It can't remain the same.
It's going to change.
It's gonna you're gonnanavigate it in different
directions.
I feel that one of the thingsthey're saying, though, however,
is there will always be acommonality between Between your
(31:16):
purpose.
You're gonna always see acommonality.
How you show up for that, Ithink, varies.
You know it varies.
Yeah, interesting.
I'm kind of having my ownreflection of my life right now
because, as I'm saying this,they're like one of the
commonalities, and I've neveryou, I know you use joy lot.
I don't use that word joy often.
I mean I understand it and Imean it, but they said one of
(31:39):
the commonalities for you andthey said, for many obviously is
the experience of Joy withintheir life.
Like that is something that youguys are meant to experience as
part of your human experience.
So that's often a commonalityin whatever purpose that you
choose.
Is the joy in it when the joydies down, or you're like dims
and it's time to renegot.
(31:59):
They're saying renegotiate thedirection that you want to
choose to go in, to continuethat, that part of it.
But you're gonna, they'resaying for me right now, so I'm
just channeling.
They're like you're gonnaexperience very many different
Types of joy in that sense,right, they're like you're gonna
have joy in your job, you'regonna have joy in your
relationships, you're gonna havejoy in your aloneness, like
(32:20):
there's gonna be so muchdifferent types of this, but
you're gonna find that there'salways a commonality in your
life, no matter what directionthat you're moving in.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, and I think I think for me too, because I
think joy is definitely a partof my path and I think I Don't
want to say I have a completelydifferent, different definition
of joy than other people do.
But when I say joy I reallymean about embracing the
totality of our experience, thatI think that I Joy is wholeness
(32:53):
for me and I think it's, Ithink maybe I define it that way
because I have felt sofractured For so much of my life
.
I felt very fractured and veryseparate from different
communities or things.
So to find myself standing andwholeness and feeling myself
feel every part of myself waslike a Revelation, a relief, a
(33:22):
Way to relax into, you know,into life.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
That's funny because you're talking and I said, well,
what's joy to me?
And I heard joys, joys mine,like that's the way I think I
would define joy.
If them and like I don't reallyknow how to put words in that.
But if you're like what is joyto you and like it's mine, like
that's mine, it's not.
My joy is not, doesn't have tobe your joy, your joy doesn't
have to be like but my joy ismine, like that that's the thing
(33:47):
I can say.
It's something that I feel.
I think I Don't know how to wordit even they're just like it's
something within you that that'syours, it's your, it's your
feeling inside you of that,whatever, that is that moment
which I, this is wholeness, likeyou said, because that's that's
mine, but it's mine.
It's not for me to necessarilyhave to reflect out Right,
interesting, I know that's notme talking, by the way that
(34:09):
spirit, because I would havenever said that sentence, I
would have never thought to sayjoy is not necessarily, I don't
necessarily have to reflect thatout.
I'm like wow, what does thateven mean?
I know what it means, but I'mjust like here at it and I'm
like I've never yeah.
No, because our obviously myhuman mind set is but joy is
(34:29):
meant to be shared and reflectedout, and I'm like spirits, like
having a whole conversation.
They're like, not necessarily,no, no, why they're like.
Why?
Who told you that it had to beshared?
I was like that is right.
Who did tell us we had to shareit?
I?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Don't think joy has to be.
I don't think it has to beshared, and I think I think we
need to respect people's abilityto own their own joy, but I
don't think that has to beshared.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, I don't think either, but everybody, I think.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I think my connection with other people is not to
cause harm to them.
That is my connection with thecollective.
I Need to cause the leastamount of harm.
Yeah, that's my obligation.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Everybody's part of everybody's purpose is somehow
just to live and find their joyin their own life, in whatever
way that may look, whether it'stheir job or outside of work.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
No I don't know, I don't.
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I don't know, I Don't think it is because I just I
just asked that question to youand spirit goes.
No, because some people's likedon't.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I do think our obligation to each other is
around non harm and safety andrespect and love.
That I think.
But I don't necessarily thinkthat means joy.
I Don't know, because I thinkthat goes back to like the
liking people not liking peoplebut loving them thing, right,
like, yeah, we, there's aconnection we have.
(35:59):
I Need to respect your abilityto say like your joy is yours,
yeah, that's yours.
Yeah, I'm sure I don't, I don'twant it and you shouldn't give
it to me and I Will protect thatfor you because that's, I think
, my obligation as a person inthis body who has a
consciousness, right, I Need toprotect that for you.
(36:23):
I think that's really, I thinkthat's important.
I don't think we have thatconversation enough, like in the
spiritual world.
I think it's always around inthe white spiritual world,
dominant cultural spiritualworld.
I think it's always around likeKumbaya and holding hands and
sort of this, like blending intoone another and all this stuff.
And I don't, I don't, I don'tbelieve that I'm saying that
(36:46):
right now, I don't know I don'tbelieve that either necessarily.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I mean that's a very big always.
I mean I use the word tocollective consciousness.
I'll use that word often.
But the collectiveconsciousness, always tell
people, doesn't mean that youhave to do all of that.
It may not act that youyourself are part of the
collective, solely right, andyou taking care of you is taking
care of the.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Collect it percent, hundred percent.
I think that's a by-park thingI gotta say.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I do our thought process of me just around that.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I do.
I Don't hear this conversationa lot in other places.
I don't.
Yeah, it's always about Justthe individual as the individual
, and then there's sort of thisblob Amorphous that you have to
do what I say because you're apart of the group, but there's
never a sense that you belong toyou.
(37:37):
I belong to me, I respect and Iwill protect your ability to be
you.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah, we are connected Beauty of it.
I think that's beauty.
I talked about this.
That's why, like, people arelike oh, you teach intuition
different.
I'm like yeah, because Mine ismine, what yours is yours, it's
not.
This whole way of doing thingsis one single way.
No, that doesn't work and Ithink that's definitely a
by-park.
It has to be a by-park, I think, because if you really think
(38:03):
about it, that's you know it'sfunny, it's almost today.
I almost came on.
I was like, let's talk about.
I don't think we broke down theword, that's colonizing
language I was just going to say.
I was just going to say thatwe've never really broke down
that language.
We've never actually broke downthe language.
That's exactly a topic I wasgoing to talk about today.
I remember thinking about thisearlier and this just brings up
(38:24):
the fact of.
That's why the collectiveconsciousness, or the word
collective, is part of thatlanguage.
It's where they wanted us toalways be.
I mean, we can go back so far,back right into destroying our
villages and destroying ourcities and throwing us in the
slate, all these differentthings they did to break the
mindset of.
You are an individual, you haveto think like the collective,
(38:45):
like you.
Literally, laws you know wereput on place.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Except for them, because they were individuals
right.
So what was theirs was theirs,and then we had to fall under
this umbrella of a group right.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Oh my gosh, go ahead tell you something, yes.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
You know what I mean.
I think there's this abilityfor people to say like well, I
know I'm white, but I'm not apart of people who do that.
But when something happens witha person, with a BIPOC person
or a Black Indigenous person,you know, then it's like the
whole group gets labeled, but itdoesn't happen in the other way
(39:20):
.
I have this lady.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I mean, if they listened, blessed and sold.
They were very sweet people.
They were interviewing me to bea part of something, trying to
keep it not so many words andthrow them under the desk, and
they were saying what they speak, like, how.
I forget the wording they used,but basically they were calling
themselves, like, how they wantto speak for the voices not
(39:45):
heard, but like they're like theminority, like, in a way,
they're white, by the way, andthey were saying how they speak
for the voices, for the unheardvoices of, like the LGBTQ
community, which I, you know,whatever, and that that's
something about the minority, orshould?
I thought of that.
I'm trying to word it right,because all that caught me was
that this white person wassaying that they were part of
(40:06):
the minority because they wereLGBTQ and that they wanted to
speak on behalf of these voices.
Don't give me that's a wholenother conversation, knowing
they're not, because they'rewhite and LGBTQ, we don't need
to go there, but they go andthey go.
So what, whose voice do youspeak of?
Or, and I went.
I literally looked at them likethe, and I literally was like
(40:27):
the BIPOC community, becausespirituality has been so
whitewashed, so I speak onbehalf of my BIPOC community to
understand that this is whereI'm at.
But I just thought it was sointeresting because I'm like I
was telling my son this and hegoes they're the majority.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
And I'm like, yes, Well, well, they're the dominant
culture, but we are the globalmajority.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, that's
a better way of wording it.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, but it's interesting too, because I think
there's also this idea and Ithink this goes back to your joy
being yours and my joy beingmine is there's this sense too,
that when we use a term likeblack or indigenous or Latino or
Latinx or however you want toidentify yourself, that it's
(41:16):
under this one monolithicexperience, like it's all sort
of the same, and I think one ofthe beautiful things about sort
of the global majority is thevaried experiences that we all
have, being sort of who we are,that my version of blackness is
not like my friend Nicole'sversion of blackness or my
(41:39):
partner's version of blackness.
She's Caribbean and there's thisbeautiful sense of we can speak
from this general place, thatwe know what's happened with
colonization and all of thatstuff.
But what I would love forpeople who are a part of
dominant culture, you know, inproximity to whiteness, to
understand is that ourexperiences aren't monolithic,
(42:00):
that they're varied, and I thinkit's really important that you
understand that.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
So this brings us back to the beginning
conversation.
Then, in regards to the wordlife purpose and the word
purpose itself, yeah, has itbeen colonized?
Yes, because we've been taughtthat we're supposed to have a
purpose at all point in time.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Oh, I just thought that goes right back to
productivity, that goes back togrind culture.
Yes, that goes back tocontributing to, you know, the
gross national product.
How much are you producing?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, so I think the answer really is in the sense
that, when we were talking aboutour past conversation, there's
going to be seasons of lifewhere you just don't have a
purpose, and that is completelyand that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
And rest.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, and that's okay .
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
With the belief that you constantly have to be
seeking some kind of purpose andhave a purpose.
Where did that mindset comefrom?
Think about that for a secondor two.
Where was that ingrained andtaught?
I mean, we know where it wasbut, like you know, for those
listening, like, no, notnecessarily.
I think there's moments intimes you just don't have one,
and that's okay, you'renavigating, that's the season
(43:16):
you're in yeah, beauty and that.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, there is beauty in that and we don't value it.
Dominant culture doesn't valuethat.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
No, no, absolutely not, absolutely not.
They don't.
I mean that's just a big no.
No, yeah, because then you'redoing nothing.
And who are you to do nothing,my dog just sighed when you said
that.
She went I'm a dog and I can donothing.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Like yes, this is my purpose.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I love that.
I like how this like made thewhole this really did and made
its way back around.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, well, anything else, no, I was actually just
saying to myself I wonder whatpeople think about their purpose
If they have one, if they needto have one, if they're
rethinking the language aroundwhat's been colonized with
language around spirituality tofor themselves.
If they're rethinking thingsI'd love to know.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I think that's something that maybe in another
episode we need to talk about issome of the wording that we use
that they don't necessarilyunderstand what you know what.
That is definitely a great nextepisode.
Yeah, I don't think they knowwhat, like some people are.
Like, what does that meancolonization?
Yeah, mean to de-asimilate,like what is all these words
that you use?
Yeah, okay, because I don'tthink people necessarily
(44:40):
understand what it is.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think, some.
Yeah, I definitely.
That's a great Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, I think I had a listener or somebody write to
me saying how spirituality forus as BIPOC people is just
de-asimilating.
That's all it is, and I waslike pretty much, pretty much,
and it's reclaiming, reclaiming.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, it's how people are remembering.
I was listening to this reallypowerful interview on MPR
yesterday, so much so I hadmoved my car.
You know, I live in New Yorkand we have alternate side
parking, so I had to move my carand then I was listening to
this interview and it was sogood that I turned the car off,
but I just sat in the car tolisten to the rest of the
interview.
(45:24):
I could have come upstairs butI didn't.
And it was this guy.
His name is James McCray.
He's a poet.
His white grandparents stolehim from his father, who was
black, and they were whitesupremacists and raised him and
he, yeah, he got away.
(45:46):
And Terry I think it was TerryGross was asking him well, how
are you sort of identifying withblackness now after having so
many years of being told thatblackness culturally was all of
these terrible things?
And he said it's taken time andhe considers himself black and
he calls himself, he considershimself to be a black man.
(46:08):
And he said that specificallythe whole idea of the blurred
which is you know, for folks whoare listening as a black nerd.
He said blurred culture reallyhelped him because it was like
there was more than one way tobe black and embracing that
nerdy part of himself and Icould be black and be that was
(46:29):
really empowering.
I'm thinking of that because itjust really connects with this
conversation.
Like you know, claiming thingsfor ourselves and how we
identify for us is decolonizingand stepping away from that, and
I think it's really empowering.
I'm so glad that we get to.
You know, talk about this everyweek.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I am, I am.
Yeah, gosh, there's so muchshit going on in my head and I
think it's such a greatconversation Just goes back into
that whole thing that we said,like my, my joy is, my joy, my
joy is mine, and, at the end ofthe day, you have to be in the
way that everything has beenlisted to be.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
All right, then Great conversation.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
We'll talk again.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Bye, bye, bye.
Welcome to Motherland .
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Welcome to Motherland .
Speaker 1 (00:28):
So, isabelle, I have a question for you.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
OK.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Do you think that your spirituality has helped you
sort of find your life'spurpose, or has it gotten in the
way?
Yes, no.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
OK, you're right.
All right, so I think this goesback.
I think, ok, really quick, I'mlike, yes, it's definitely
helped me find my life's purpose, because I'm living my life's
purpose based on spirituality,but, no, because I resisted it
for long because of spirituality.
So, yeah, like I think you know, I was raised in a Christian
(01:11):
household and I attended achurch that was very against
what I'm going to call the giftsof the spirit, right?
So what I do, and even thoughI've had my ability since I was
six, I definitely pulled back alot from them and hid them and
hid them.
I hid them for so many years,even though my family knew.
(01:32):
I just kind of was like shh,you don't talk about it, it's
hiding.
So I don't think I ever allowedmyself to really follow it till
later on in my life and then,even after that, it was like
this slow sliding door of like Ikind of like this I think this
is what I meant to do.
Oh, no, it's not, I'm going tostep back.
Oh, yes, it is Like there's alot of back and forth so it
hindered me from connecting tomy life purpose when I could
(01:55):
have done it a lot earlier.
But now, absolutely not now.
It's like it is my life purpose.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Right.
So when you started to open upto it and you said that
spirituality got in the way,like, tell me about that.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
OK, I'm laughing because you guys have to
understand, listeners don't knowwhen I talk.
This is going to make me soundschizophrenic.
Right now, when I talk, I canhear my guides answering for me
and I'm always like, ok, wait, Iwant to answer the question.
So I can hear my guidesliterally like, let me, let us
answer that.
And I'm like, well, no, I wantto.
(02:37):
So if you're talking about thepart of my life, let's say,
right, like I'm in the churchI'm teaching the Bible, I'm
doing all of that.
That was the part of me thatwas like that spiritual part,
that religion.
So I guess not necessarilyspirituality, but the that was
going to be my follow up,religion got in the way of me
seeing spirituality in my lifepurpose.
Ok, spirituality blocked mefrom my life purpose because of
(03:01):
the connotations that I put orwas taught on spirituality.
So then that kind of was my ownthing that I had to get over.
But I don't think itnecessarily blocked my life
purpose, because I think once Ifully understood it I was just
like here we go, I'm heading.
So I think I think that's thebetter terminology was religion
blocked it, spiritualitynecessarily?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
And is your spirituality, your religion.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Yeah, but no, because how do you guys want to?
That's a good question, I knowI'm like wow, that's a really
good question.
I'm like well, how would youdefine religion, that?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
is actually.
That was going to be my nextquestion.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
How would you define religion?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
I would say it was a specific doctrine that people
follow.
That's what I would think itwould be too.
Are you going to look up theOxford English?
Speaker 2 (03:59):
definition OK, let's see what it says.
What is Oxford dictionary?
Ok.
What does the Google say?
Speaker 1 (04:07):
It says.
Oed says the belief and worshipof a superhuman power or powers
, especially a god or gods.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
But no.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
And then a second definition a particular system
of faith and worship.
And then a third is a pursuitor interest to which someone
describes supreme importance.
I don't like any of thosedefinitions.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I don't OK, here's near the left.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
OK, go ahead.
A personal, set orinstitutionalized system of
religious attitudes.
I hate when they use the wordinside the definition their
service or worship or of God orthe supernatural commitment or
devotion to religious faith orobservance, a cause, principle
or system of beliefs held withardor and faith.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
So here's what I'm getting from what you're reading
Is that, no matter whatdefinition you're meaning, it's
a specific way of worshiping.
Whatever it is you're choosingto worship, yeah, it's a way of
doing things and I don't thinkspirituality is a specific way.
I always tell people I'm likeit's a way of what works for you
, it's a way of what works foryou, and sometimes it'll flow a
(05:26):
certain way and then you're likewait, that's not the way I flow
anymore.
Let me switch my flow up.
So I don't think thatspirituality is necessarily my
religion.
It's my practice.
I think that's a littledifferent.
Like it's my practice and it'swhat I choose.
I know this came up before in aconversation.
I mean, I do believe in God.
That's what I call my higherpower, but I also don't think
(05:47):
you have to call God God, like Idon't think that's the same.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, I don't say God , I think that's where I was
taught.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But again, like I said, I don't think they need a
name.
I say creator a lot more thanGod.
I say creator because it justmakes sense to me.
Creator makes sense to me moreUniverse.
I say universe, but no, I don'tthink it's my religion because
(06:16):
I like what I'm hearing rightnow from spirit.
I don't think it's my religionbecause I don't worship myself
and it's ultimately.
You are creator, you are divine.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
That is a really.
I need you to say that againbecause I really like that quote
.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I don't think it's a religion because I don't worship
myself.
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Yeah, and I think I see universe because of also the
way that I was raised, whichwas with an atheist who was
adamant that there was no God.
So I think for me, saying Godfor a long time felt like I was
going against my family andsomehow universe became a
(06:58):
comfortable way of me sayingthat.
But I still believe that it's aforce, there's a force, there's
a universal force thatcompletely believe that.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
No, I definitely believe that.
I definitely believe that it'sinteresting because, being and
doing my job as a medium, Ilearned that, like when you
expand above, you don't see aman sitting on a throne, like
you don't see, right, you havethis, this way of just expansion
, right?
Like I am now just a part ofall of this.
So I don't think, like I said,I just I think creators just
(07:32):
easier, or universe is easier,that's for me.
Do you think spirituality iskind of got in your way of your
life purpose Um?
Speaker 1 (07:42):
no, I think spirituality saved my life.
I think that when I walked awayfrom my old career, I was
spiritually bankrupt, um, and Ithink that practicing yoga was
(08:03):
like my entry point, like when Iwould practice at a studio.
I think it's one thing I do missabout going to my old yoga
studio, where I used to live,because I would call yoga on
Sunday was like my church, likeit felt holy to me, um, going to
this place at the same time onSundays and with the people that
I was with, it was, you know,we all kind of acknowledged each
(08:25):
other and there was something Ithink sacred in that, um, but I
think it's, I think it saved mebecause, um, I don't think I
had, I think I was sort offloating Um, and I had always
been a seeker as a kid.
You know I've talked about howI was always very curious and I
think because I I didn't haveanything around me, I always
(08:47):
felt kind of untethered, um, andjust sort of off, and so when I
found it, I I think I gotreally connected to you know, um
, my purpose and who I am, orreconnected or re remembering
you know what was always alreadythere.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Yeah.
So I'm like, how would ithinder somebody, do you think?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
I think um it could hinder them, because then we
could talk about spiritualbypassing Right.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
That's exactly where my mind was going, because I was
like the only thing that I'mlike how would spiritual hero
would be?
The fact is the spiritualbypassing which you've kind of
already said with negativemotions or you know, um, not
wanting to embrace fear, orwhatever it is that may come up
for you.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
Or you know, um, we haven't talked about this or
sort of using it to isolateyourself, I think, from life and
other people.
Like cutting people out, maybe,who should be in your life or
who are, you know, helpful orwho aren't harmful in your life,
but because they don't practicewhat you do right, do you not
(09:57):
have them in your life.
So I think maybe it could getin the way of that.
Or, if it stops you fromdifferent experiences, that
could really be um powerful foryou.
Yeah, and you're probably toget in the way.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I get that.
I mean, I think I look at mine.
Mine's kind of interesting.
I'm like looking around becauseI'm thinking, but it's like I
look at my life and like doingthis, Like this is what I do, so
it's kind of hard for it to belike, does it hinder you?
I'm like no, it doesn't.
But I also work with a lot ofindividuals that want to do what
I do, you know, but they don'tdo it because they're worried
about all the other worries thatcome with it Money.
(10:37):
I don't know what people aregoing to say or what people are
going to think how it's going tolook afterwards.
You know what I mean.
Um, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Wait, I think it did get in the way of what I did,
and I think that's why I don'tdo it anymore with Rikers.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Why.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
Um, I don't and I think, but I think it was it got
in the way, but in a way thatwas helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Or I don't do what I do anymore.
I think I was on.
You know my path and mypractice.
You know I don't call I don'tcall myself a Buddhist because
I'm not but Buddhist teachingsare important, yogic teachings
are important.
Listening to the universe hasbecome important and I think for
a long time I used to use allof that as sort of support for
me to do the work that I wasdoing, going inside, you know,
(11:24):
one of the most notorious jailsin the country, but then, um,
that sort of was my guidingforce, but then no more than I
practiced and that I was reallyopening up to what I was doing.
I felt like I couldn't keepdoing that and and have my
practice, because by going in Iwas supporting the system.
(11:45):
So the same thing that I wasusing to support the work that I
was doing actually stopped mefrom doing the work that I was
doing because I couldn't upholdit anymore.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Interesting yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
It's the very thing that I'm trying to say.
What do you mean you?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
couldn't uphold it.
Why couldn't you uphold itanymore?
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Because I felt like I was making the system palatable
for people.
People would hear oh, you teachyoga and meditation at Rikers,
that's really cool.
It's not really cool.
Rikers should not exist.
It should be completely burneddown to the ground.
So when people hear that, itallows them to think well, maybe
it's not so bad, and I don'twant anybody to ever think that
(12:28):
I felt like I was contributingto the problem rather than
stepping away.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
But don't you think that, like on a side note, just
saying this don't you think thatcorrectional facilities should
help to grow people rather thankeep them?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
still, no, I don't think correctional facilities
should exist the way that theyare.
So no, because correctionalfacilities were designed from
slave patrols, I do.
So you can't reform that ifthat's the foundation, so it has
to be completely reimagined.
Well, yes to that.
Yes to that, I do agree withthat.
So here's the other thing.
(13:04):
I don't think that peopleshouldn't.
I think that people shouldstill do what I did, like.
The person who has my job nowis amazing.
I know her, we're really goodfriends.
I'm really glad that she'sthere.
It was something that I couldno longer do, but it's not a
judgment on her, because shedoes it and she's the person who
should be doing it.
And I think I should have beenthe person who was doing it at
(13:25):
the time too.
But I think, as I evolved, myspiritual practice was like you
can't do this anymore, like youcan't do this and be on your
path, and that's what happened,but don't you think that you're
on your path now, though?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
So then it goes back to the fact that did it really?
Did it really take you off path?
Because you're on your path now, Right?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
I think it changed.
It maybe changed my path.
Yeah, exactly, if I wanted tokeep that position and sort of
grow, then, yes, it would havehindered it, but I think I
needed to do what I needed to do.
I don't think I could have, Icould be writing my book as
(14:08):
freely as I'm writing it If Iwas there too.
I couldn't, I don't think Icould feel like I could say the
things that I could say.
You know, and people were likewatching my social media
accounts and all those kinds ofthings that part of me would say
I don't care, and I still saida lot that I probably quote
unquote shouldn't have accordingto like my contract.
(14:29):
But yeah, I think there was a,there's a freedom that I feel
like I have now Right, and Ithink my spirit, my spirituality
, freed me to do that.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I think a good part of this that I'm actually
getting from this conversationis those that even in this line
of work or in whatever work,maybe this is your life purpose.
Maybe you're not a spiritualteacher but you're a therapist
or you're serving some otherkind of career role that is your
life purpose but that you knowthis is my life purpose, but
maybe there's not like acontentment factor in it.
Or you're feeling like we kindof talked in the last episode
(15:03):
about you know allowing theseasons to change that.
How do you?
I just hadn't, I lost it.
But basically, like in yourlife purpose, it changes,
sometimes even in the context ofwhat you're doing.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
So it's like you're still in very much your life
purpose, as I think Rikers wasvery much.
Your life purpose is just theway that you're showing up and
serving is completely differentnow.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It's completely different and I think that's
because of my practice.
I think my spiritualitydirectly impacted that.
Yeah, 100%.
I do wonder if I would havebeen a better leader not better
if I would have been a morecompassionate leader if I had
(15:48):
had my spiritual practice in myold career.
I have had to nurse and healsome regret over that, because I
was young and a woman and blackand I think I felt like I had
to act a certain way in order tocommand respect and I wasn't as
compassionate as I am now and Iyou know I've had to forgive
(16:12):
myself for that, but I wonder ifthat could have helped me
actually in some ways with myteens, but I don't think it
would have helped me getpromoted.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
You're bringing up so many different aspects right
now because, like, I didn't eventhink about all these little
things are coming up because Irecently was having this
conversation with somebody.
So in my own life, purposeright, and what I do I mean we
all kind of know what I do, butwhat I've had a realization in
the last couple of days is thevoice that I've taken on for the
community and it's like peopleare interviewing me more people
(16:44):
want to interview me more voiceon talk about the BIPOC, talk
about the BIPOC unity andspiritual.
And I think a lot of times,especially in my position where
I've had to have my own thoughtprocess, is this a hindrance to
my career?
Like, could this be a hindrancein the voice that I'm taking on
(17:04):
right, because I'm being such amajor I'm going to be, because
I know the direction I'm goingand it's creating growth in that
, which I know is somethingpassionate to my heart that
definitely needs to be spokenabout and it needs to be
prevalent.
But yeah, you may.
Just I don't know you made mekind of look at it as, like you
face some of these things, likeI kind of was listening to you
(17:25):
and I'm like how spiritual Iaffected your life purpose and
I'm like, well, no, because I'mmaking the choices that are
needed to make.
But if I was to choosedifferent, saying you know I
want love all, fit in thisbubble.
I do love all, but you knowwhat I mean Fit in this bubble,
provide positive feedback.
Only only look at the positiveside of things Then it
definitely would affect my lifepurpose.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
Yeah, and I think it's also I guess too, it's
staying true to your lane ofwhat your spirituality is for,
because you know I'm all for.
I don't necessarily like people, but I do love them, and I
think that is a big part of mypractice.
You know, I mean people arejerks, I mean I don't love you,
(18:11):
but you know a lot of people arereally not cool and I think,
honestly, working at Riker hasreally opened me up to that,
like I love a lot of people whoI do not like, and I think
that's a big practice for me,and I wish I had had that in my
(18:33):
other role as a retail leader.
I think that would have servedme a little bit differently.
I don't think my compassionwould have helped me, to be
honest with you, which is sad.
I had to lack a lot ofcompassion in order to make some
(18:53):
decisions that I had to make,and I think when I couldn't make
them anymore, that's when Iknew it was time to leave.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
Well, I think anything with, like the way I
live my life now would havedefinitely changed any of my
past roles or careers that I youknow that I was in but doing my
line of work like it's alwaysbeen on my like, I said it was
always with something I wantedto do.
When I finally made the choicethat was on the side, I just
kind of, like I said, kept ithidden and then I would quit a
job to like, let me go pursuethis, I'd quit another job,
(19:21):
pursue this, and it always mightbe my go back to until I was
like, okay, I'm in.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Wow, but what are the other things that you did
before you were doing this fulltime?
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Well, before I had children.
I mean, you know, I actuallyI've always worked like I moved
out of the house very, veryyoung.
Like my senior year I moved out, I lived with my sister, lived
on my own.
I carried three jobs while inhigh school, wow.
So I worked at the smallbusiness development center,
Right, and that was a reallygreat job.
(19:52):
And then I worked at retailjobs.
So I did retail off and on foryears and then I ended up
becoming a corporate trainer bythe time I was pregnant with my
son.
Great job.
I founded my actual position.
I created it.
I ran it for a big company.
It was great, you know, 20years old corporate trainer, and
(20:14):
they wanted me to travel theworld and I had a kid and I was
like this is before.
We could do remote, obviously,right, you know, no, I can't do
it.
And actually the lady that tookover my job now is like CEO of
the company.
But I have to say that was adifferent life.
That was a different life.
I mean I made so much moneyLike you're talking six digits
in 1999.
(20:35):
Like do you know how much moneythat was back then?
Like that's insane, anyways.
So I went from that and then Idid.
I've done everything webdeveloper, computer programmer.
Yeah, I'm trying to think whatelse I've done Shoe sales,
preschool teacher, daycareworker.
(20:56):
Preschool teaching now is mygo-to, that I pretty much will
fall back on, just cause I lovekids, yeah, makes sense now
cause I'm a teacher.
Anyways, I look at myself as,and then that's this yeah, and
I've had my feet in like all thewaters, yeah, so those are what
I've done, wow.
But I can look at my path andsee how it's always kind of been
(21:18):
back to teaching.
Teaching, I mean, corporatetrainer was a teacher, preschool
teacher was a teacher.
Like you know, everything hasbeen like in a teaching role,
which it's funny cause you madea comment, like I remember, one
time my mentor was like you'remeant to be a teacher and
spiritual teacher.
I was so mad at her Wow, so madat her for saying that.
Why are you mad?
I think it wasn't thinking.
(21:38):
It was egotistical of me towant that.
I thought in my own head, thereyou go, how spirituality
effected it.
I thought the belief that youas a teacher was ego.
Huh, I was like, no, that's tooequal ego, my ego doesn't need
that.
Wow, isn't that interesting.
So there you are.
I resisted becoming my ownpractice and being my spiritual
(22:01):
teacher because spiritualityteaches not to have the ego into
it, and I believe that was myego, so I resisted it for years
because of that.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
So, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Then I realized it wasn't my ego, but I thought it
was, and so I didn't want tostep into anything, because who
am I to be seen?
Who am I?
And that wasn't a worth thing.
That was more of like ego beingafraid of ego, or being afraid
of, like you know, thinking itwas.
Like I was wrong to think thatI could do this, so I held
(22:36):
myself back.
So I think that's one of thosethings that you look at.
You know that people don't makechoices, because I think now,
as I'm headless in thisconversation, you think like, oh
, people want to follow theirlife purpose, but for those of
us that, like I'm going to callthem the little baby spirituals,
because I don't know what elsename to give them, but in the
sense of, like you know, oh, Igot to wait for it to flow to me
(22:58):
, or, oh, it's too much of anego to think that I could do
this, or, you know, I think Ithought that too, you know
different little things of itthen definitely think that your
spirituality might be holdingyou back from actually embracing
what is rightfully yours toembrace.
Speaker 1 (23:15):
Yeah, yeah, I've had a lot of struggle.
Hang on.
I think my dog unplugged mycomputer.
She's lying next to me and shelaid on the cord.
I think.
I thought, well, who am I to totalk about spiritual?
(23:36):
Yeah, I'm not.
I'm not special.
Yeah, I'm special.
I used to get hung up oneducation and certification too.
That was like a big thing.
Am I qualified?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Well, that's a good point, because I think a lot of
people do get hung up oncertifications and oh, I'm
certified or you know whateverit is, and it's like, okay, I
don't think that means anything,yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, there's a big debate about that in the yoga
world.
You know, people have there's a200 hour yoga teacher training
and there's like yoga alliance,which is this organization that
sort of validates you as a yogateacher, but they don't do
anything.
They do nothing for yogateachers.
There's no support whatsoever.
But all of these yoga studiosall across the country are like,
(24:27):
well, you are registered yogateacher with yoga alliance, well
, for what?
And you know, and you havepeople who come from lineages of
yoga teachers from like Indiawho aren't qualified to teach
yoga here because they didn't dosome 200 hour training when
it's been in their lineageforever.
You know, it's, it's you.
(24:47):
I think you have to askyourself, when you're talking
about certifications for certainthings, who's certifying and
why are they certifying and whatare they certifying for?
What are they trying to get?
Speaker 2 (24:59):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Yeah.
You see some crazycertifications out there that
I'm just like you don't need tocert for that or you don't need
to cert for this, yeah like.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I did a training for yoga for cancer where it was
heavily science based and Ilearned all about cancer and
that was really important toknow, like the physiological and
scientific impact that cancerhad on cells, and I could
understand why these practiceswere helpful.
That made a lot of sense to me.
That was a hundred hours andthat was well worth it.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
I don't think I've taken any crazy ones.
I mean I've taken Theta, I'vetaken I've taken Reiki, I've
taken my life coaching, myhealth coaching, but those I
those were relevant, like thoseactually helped me.
I think I think my lifecoaching certification really
helped me to learn how to listento people better than I was
doing before it.
(25:52):
So I think I learned how tolisten to people and and connect
, like pick the conversationsapart into okay, I can see where
we need to direct this or wherethe issues are laying.
So I think they've all beenreally beneficial.
I don't know, I follow my gutand stuff and I'm like you don't
need that, you don't need that.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
I don't know, but I think there's a lot of crazy
things out there that I see andI'm just like you don't need to
be certified.
I think somebody was like whoit was the other day I remember
watching I'm like she'scertifying and connecting to
your higher self, like it waslike something stupid.
I was like what the heck?
Like, how's that a cert?
Like it was just somethingweird like that, and I was, yeah
, what does it make sense to me?
Speaker 1 (26:35):
like that's when you're wondering is this just
really connected with capitalismor are you trying to make some
right yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:39):
and I'm like who told you that you could qualify same
question a cert for this?
And like what does your certget me?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
That's where I think we get really heavy on, you know
.
I think that's dominant culturebeing really heavy on the
subject of worshiping you know adegree or the written word and
all of these things and waysthat you know.
The wisdom that I think I havegained over the past, you know
(27:12):
12-15 years that I've sort ofbeen on this path has been worth
so much more than the tons oftrainings that I did before in
my other life and I did somereally incredible trainings you
know that were really worthwhile.
But there is nothing that thewisdom of working at Rikers I
mean that was like a doctorate,yeah, and spirituality in life,
(27:41):
right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
Okay, so I have a question for you do you think
that everybody has a lifepurpose and do you think that
we're all meant to find our lifepurpose?
Speaker 1 (27:49):
You know, I guess, I guess we we didn't even ask this
question, and I think this is agood one like, what is a life
purpose?
Anyway, you know, like, is it apath?
You know, if you were talkingabout Dharma, right, like if
we're talking about definitionof Dharma, that is, you know
it's a path, and I thinksometimes we hear path and we
(28:09):
think this lofty goal and Ithink that's getting caught up
sort of in capitalism in oursociety, that it has to be like
oh, my life purpose is to do X,y and Z, and that's really
grandiose, when your lifepurpose could be, you know, to
live a satisfying life thatcauses the least amount of harm.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
Right, I had this time, that's that's for I was
having a life purpose.
This guy was like, what do youdo?
And I told him what I did andthen he was like, oh well,
that's awesome, I just went forthe nine to five, whatever.
And I was like, yeah, butyou're enjoying your life right
outside of work.
And he goes, yeah, and I go,maybe that's exactly what you
need to be doing.
Like it doesn't have to be yoursole jobs purpose.
(28:48):
Like I don't think that yourlife purpose has to be your job.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Like when everybody talks about past lives and
everybody claims that they werelike a king or a queen not
everybody could have beenroyalty like some of us were
just living our lives out here,right.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Oh, I've seen some past lives where I was not a
king.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
I was like you know, like I think there's this, this
sense of you know.
Yeah, everything has to bereally grand, and I think it's
really grand.
I think it's a big deal that Icause less harm in the world
than I did before I starteddoing all of this work by myself
, and that's huge.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
It is Well.
You use the word path.
What path?
That's the thing, that's myquestion.
Speaker 1 (29:32):
I think path for me is sort of just living my life,
trying not to cause harm, and Ithink it's a journey.
I think I consider sort of mylife now is it like a journey
that I'm on.
It's not going anywhere, youknow it's, it's going to when I
transition, you know, out ofhere and I think it's um.
So yeah, I think path is justanother way to save life for me.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Okay, I'm asking spirit Mike is path.
I said are we always in thesame path?
I was asking spirit.
Spirit said no, you're notalways on the same path.
Your path changes.
Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yes, it's not, it's not.
It's not like, it's not likethe other road by any stretch of
the imagination.
It is very sort of amorphousand you know it goes where it
goes.
It's not.
Yeah, I don't mean linear, Idon't mean it it's.
It goes in a direction thatwhen I say path, I could mean up
(30:28):
or down, or side or back orfront, or yesterday or tomorrow,
or you know, or now.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
So and I think the same to say about purpose.
I don't think your purpose isalways the same.
I think your Changes.
I can hear spirit.
I'm actually very intriguedwith what I'm hearing.
I kind of want to dive in withthem.
But they're saying I know howdo you guys want to wear this?
They're saying an averageperson will have at least three
different Purposes within theirlife purpose within a time.
(30:54):
So, like you live threedifferent.
They're saying path per se orpurposes in your lifetime.
It doesn't remain the same.
It can't remain the same.
Like that goes back into whatwe're talking about.
It can't remain the same.
It's going to change.
It's gonna you're gonnanavigate it in different
directions.
I feel that one of the thingsthey're saying, though, however,
is there will always be acommonality between Between your
(31:16):
purpose.
You're gonna always see acommonality.
How you show up for that, Ithink, varies.
You know it varies.
Yeah, interesting.
I'm kind of having my ownreflection of my life right now
because, as I'm saying this,they're like one of the
commonalities, and I've neveryou, I know you use joy lot.
I don't use that word joy often.
I mean I understand it and Imean it, but they said one of
(31:39):
the commonalities for you andthey said, for many obviously is
the experience of Joy withintheir life.
Like that is something that youguys are meant to experience as
part of your human experience.
So that's often a commonalityin whatever purpose that you
choose.
Is the joy in it when the joydies down, or you're like dims
and it's time to renegot.
(31:59):
They're saying renegotiate thedirection that you want to
choose to go in, to continuethat, that part of it.
But you're gonna, they'resaying for me right now, so I'm
just channeling.
They're like you're gonnaexperience very many different
Types of joy in that sense,right, they're like you're gonna
have joy in your job, you'regonna have joy in your
relationships, you're gonna havejoy in your aloneness, like
(32:20):
there's gonna be so muchdifferent types of this, but
you're gonna find that there'salways a commonality in your
life, no matter what directionthat you're moving in.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Yeah, and I think I think for me too, because I
think joy is definitely a partof my path and I think I Don't
want to say I have a completelydifferent, different definition
of joy than other people do.
But when I say joy I reallymean about embracing the
totality of our experience, thatI think that I Joy is wholeness
(32:53):
for me and I think it's, Ithink maybe I define it that way
because I have felt sofractured For so much of my life
.
I felt very fractured and veryseparate from different
communities or things.
So to find myself standing andwholeness and feeling myself
feel every part of myself waslike a Revelation, a relief, a
(33:22):
Way to relax into, you know,into life.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
That's funny because you're talking and I said, well,
what's joy to me?
And I heard joys, joys mine,like that's the way I think I
would define joy.
If them and like I don't reallyknow how to put words in that.
But if you're like what is joyto you and like it's mine, like
that's mine, it's not.
My joy is not, doesn't have tobe your joy, your joy doesn't
have to be like but my joy ismine, like that that's the thing
(33:47):
I can say.
It's something that I feel.
I think I Don't know how to wordit even they're just like it's
something within you that that'syours, it's your, it's your
feeling inside you of that,whatever, that is that moment
which I, this is wholeness, likeyou said, because that's that's
mine, but it's mine.
It's not for me to necessarilyhave to reflect out Right,
interesting, I know that's notme talking, by the way that
(34:09):
spirit, because I would havenever said that sentence, I
would have never thought to sayjoy is not necessarily, I don't
necessarily have to reflect thatout.
I'm like wow, what does thateven mean?
I know what it means, but I'mjust like here at it and I'm
like I've never yeah.
No, because our obviously myhuman mind set is but joy is
(34:29):
meant to be shared and reflectedout, and I'm like spirits, like
having a whole conversation.
They're like, not necessarily,no, no, why they're like.
Why?
Who told you that it had to beshared?
I was like that is right.
Who did tell us we had to shareit?
I?
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Don't think joy has to be.
I don't think it has to beshared, and I think I think we
need to respect people's abilityto own their own joy, but I
don't think that has to beshared.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, I don't think either, but everybody, I think.
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I think my connection with other people is not to
cause harm to them.
That is my connection with thecollective.
I Need to cause the leastamount of harm.
Yeah, that's my obligation.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Everybody's part of everybody's purpose is somehow
just to live and find their joyin their own life, in whatever
way that may look, whether it'stheir job or outside of work.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
No I don't know, I don't.
Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
I don't know, I Don't think it is because I just I
just asked that question to youand spirit goes.
No, because some people's likedon't.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
I do think our obligation to each other is
around non harm and safety andrespect and love.
That I think.
But I don't necessarily thinkthat means joy.
I Don't know, because I thinkthat goes back to like the
liking people not liking peoplebut loving them thing, right,
like, yeah, we, there's aconnection we have.
(35:59):
I Need to respect your abilityto say like your joy is yours,
yeah, that's yours.
Yeah, I'm sure I don't, I don'twant it and you shouldn't give
it to me and I Will protect thatfor you because that's, I think
, my obligation as a person inthis body who has a
consciousness, right, I Need toprotect that for you.
(36:23):
I think that's really, I thinkthat's important.
I don't think we have thatconversation enough, like in the
spiritual world.
I think it's always around inthe white spiritual world,
dominant cultural spiritualworld.
I think it's always around likeKumbaya and holding hands and
sort of this, like blending intoone another and all this stuff.
And I don't, I don't, I don'tbelieve that I'm saying that
(36:46):
right now, I don't know I don'tbelieve that either necessarily.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
I mean that's a very big always.
I mean I use the word tocollective consciousness.
I'll use that word often.
But the collectiveconsciousness, always tell
people, doesn't mean that youhave to do all of that.
It may not act that youyourself are part of the
collective, solely right, andyou taking care of you is taking
care of the.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Collect it percent, hundred percent.
I think that's a by-park thingI gotta say.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
I do our thought process of me just around that.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
I do.
I Don't hear this conversationa lot in other places.
I don't.
Yeah, it's always about Justthe individual as the individual
, and then there's sort of thisblob Amorphous that you have to
do what I say because you're apart of the group, but there's
never a sense that you belong toyou.
(37:37):
I belong to me, I respect and Iwill protect your ability to be
you.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah, we are connected Beauty of it.
I think that's beauty.
I talked about this.
That's why, like, people arelike oh, you teach intuition
different.
I'm like yeah, because Mine ismine, what yours is yours, it's
not.
This whole way of doing thingsis one single way.
No, that doesn't work and Ithink that's definitely a
by-park.
It has to be a by-park, I think, because if you really think
(38:03):
about it, that's you know it'sfunny, it's almost today.
I almost came on.
I was like, let's talk about.
I don't think we broke down theword, that's colonizing
language I was just going to say.
I was just going to say thatwe've never really broke down
that language.
We've never actually broke downthe language.
That's exactly a topic I wasgoing to talk about today.
I remember thinking about thisearlier and this just brings up
(38:24):
the fact of.
That's why the collectiveconsciousness, or the word
collective, is part of thatlanguage.
It's where they wanted us toalways be.
I mean, we can go back so far,back right into destroying our
villages and destroying ourcities and throwing us in the
slate, all these differentthings they did to break the
mindset of.
You are an individual, you haveto think like the collective,
(38:45):
like you.
Literally, laws you know wereput on place.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Except for them, because they were individuals
right.
So what was theirs was theirs,and then we had to fall under
this umbrella of a group right.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Oh my gosh, go ahead tell you something, yes.
Speaker 1 (38:59):
You know what I mean.
I think there's this abilityfor people to say like well, I
know I'm white, but I'm not apart of people who do that.
But when something happens witha person, with a BIPOC person
or a Black Indigenous person,you know, then it's like the
whole group gets labeled, but itdoesn't happen in the other way
(39:20):
.
I have this lady.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
I mean, if they listened, blessed and sold.
They were very sweet people.
They were interviewing me to bea part of something, trying to
keep it not so many words andthrow them under the desk, and
they were saying what they speak, like, how.
I forget the wording they used,but basically they were calling
themselves, like, how they wantto speak for the voices not
(39:45):
heard, but like they're like theminority, like, in a way,
they're white, by the way, andthey were saying how they speak
for the voices, for the unheardvoices of, like the LGBTQ
community, which I, you know,whatever, and that that's
something about the minority, orshould?
I thought of that.
I'm trying to word it right,because all that caught me was
that this white person wassaying that they were part of
(40:06):
the minority because they wereLGBTQ and that they wanted to
speak on behalf of these voices.
Don't give me that's a wholenother conversation, knowing
they're not, because they'rewhite and LGBTQ, we don't need
to go there, but they go andthey go.
So what, whose voice do youspeak of?
Or, and I went.
I literally looked at them likethe, and I literally was like
(40:27):
the BIPOC community, becausespirituality has been so
whitewashed, so I speak onbehalf of my BIPOC community to
understand that this is whereI'm at.
But I just thought it was sointeresting because I'm like I
was telling my son this and hegoes they're the majority.
Speaker 1 (40:42):
And I'm like, yes, Well, well, they're the dominant
culture, but we are the globalmajority.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, that's
a better way of wording it.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yeah, but it's interesting too, because I think
there's also this idea and Ithink this goes back to your joy
being yours and my joy beingmine is there's this sense too,
that when we use a term likeblack or indigenous or Latino or
Latinx or however you want toidentify yourself, that it's
(41:16):
under this one monolithicexperience, like it's all sort
of the same, and I think one ofthe beautiful things about sort
of the global majority is thevaried experiences that we all
have, being sort of who we are,that my version of blackness is
not like my friend Nicole'sversion of blackness or my
(41:39):
partner's version of blackness.
She's Caribbean and there's thisbeautiful sense of we can speak
from this general place, thatwe know what's happened with
colonization and all of thatstuff.
But what I would love forpeople who are a part of
dominant culture, you know, inproximity to whiteness, to
understand is that ourexperiences aren't monolithic,
(42:00):
that they're varied, and I thinkit's really important that you
understand that.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
So this brings us back to the beginning
conversation.
Then, in regards to the wordlife purpose and the word
purpose itself, yeah, has itbeen colonized?
Yes, because we've been taughtthat we're supposed to have a
purpose at all point in time.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
Oh, I just thought that goes right back to
productivity, that goes back togrind culture.
Yes, that goes back tocontributing to, you know, the
gross national product.
How much are you producing?
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Yeah, so I think the answer really is in the sense
that, when we were talking aboutour past conversation, there's
going to be seasons of lifewhere you just don't have a
purpose, and that is completelyand that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
And rest.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, and that's okay .
Speaker 1 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
With the belief that you constantly have to be
seeking some kind of purpose andhave a purpose.
Where did that mindset comefrom?
Think about that for a secondor two.
Where was that ingrained andtaught?
I mean, we know where it wasbut, like you know, for those
listening, like, no, notnecessarily.
I think there's moments intimes you just don't have one,
and that's okay, you'renavigating, that's the season
(43:16):
you're in yeah, beauty and that.
Speaker 1 (43:19):
Yeah, there is beauty in that and we don't value it.
Dominant culture doesn't valuethat.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
No, no, absolutely not, absolutely not.
They don't.
I mean that's just a big no.
No, yeah, because then you'redoing nothing.
And who are you to do nothing,my dog just sighed when you said
that.
She went I'm a dog and I can donothing.
Speaker 1 (43:46):
Like yes, this is my purpose.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I love that.
I like how this like made thewhole this really did and made
its way back around.
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Yeah, well, anything else, no, I was actually just
saying to myself I wonder whatpeople think about their purpose
If they have one, if they needto have one, if they're
rethinking the language aroundwhat's been colonized with
language around spirituality tofor themselves.
If they're rethinking thingsI'd love to know.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
I think that's something that maybe in another
episode we need to talk about issome of the wording that we use
that they don't necessarilyunderstand what you know what.
That is definitely a great nextepisode.
Yeah, I don't think they knowwhat, like some people are.
Like, what does that meancolonization?
Yeah, mean to de-asimilate,like what is all these words
that you use?
Yeah, okay, because I don'tthink people necessarily
(44:40):
understand what it is.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I think, some.
Yeah, I definitely.
That's a great Okay.
Speaker 2 (44:45):
Yeah, I think I had a listener or somebody write to
me saying how spirituality forus as BIPOC people is just
de-asimilating.
That's all it is, and I waslike pretty much, pretty much,
and it's reclaiming, reclaiming.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
Yeah, it's how people are remembering.
I was listening to this reallypowerful interview on MPR
yesterday, so much so I hadmoved my car.
You know, I live in New Yorkand we have alternate side
parking, so I had to move my carand then I was listening to
this interview and it was sogood that I turned the car off,
but I just sat in the car tolisten to the rest of the
interview.
(45:24):
I could have come upstairs butI didn't.
And it was this guy.
His name is James McCray.
He's a poet.
His white grandparents stolehim from his father, who was
black, and they were whitesupremacists and raised him and
he, yeah, he got away.
(45:46):
And Terry I think it was TerryGross was asking him well, how
are you sort of identifying withblackness now after having so
many years of being told thatblackness culturally was all of
these terrible things?
And he said it's taken time andhe considers himself black and
he calls himself, he considershimself to be a black man.
(46:08):
And he said that specificallythe whole idea of the blurred
which is you know, for folks whoare listening as a black nerd.
He said blurred culture reallyhelped him because it was like
there was more than one way tobe black and embracing that
nerdy part of himself and Icould be black and be that was
(46:29):
really empowering.
I'm thinking of that because itjust really connects with this
conversation.
Like you know, claiming thingsfor ourselves and how we
identify for us is decolonizingand stepping away from that, and
I think it's really empowering.
I'm so glad that we get to.
You know, talk about this everyweek.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
I am, I am.
Yeah, gosh, there's so muchshit going on in my head and I
think it's such a greatconversation Just goes back into
that whole thing that we said,like my, my joy is, my joy, my
joy is mine, and, at the end ofthe day, you have to be in the
way that everything has beenlisted to be.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:09):
All right, then Great conversation.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
We'll talk again.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
Bye, bye, bye.
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