September 9, 2025 • 10 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
If you fit in, you're just boring. You know, you're
you're just one of many people. Don't let anyone dim
your light, like you should always shine as as as
bright as that. But it's about instilling confidence in people.
And I think me having success, I can say to her, look,
I was really weird and I've managed to have success.
So if you just carry on doing you, you're you're
(00:30):
going to have the same thing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, It's like, why fit in when you're born to
stand up? Like That's why I feel like all of
us have our.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Very own unique DNA that can't be duplicated.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
There's no one in the world that can do what
you do. Absolutely, but there is someone in the world
that's going to try and they're going to fail because
they should be doing what they do best. Absolutely, being
yourself is so powerful and I feel like a beautiful
person without sounding weird about it. But because of it,
I have now confidence in myself because because of being myself,
all of these great things have happened. So now I
(01:00):
can I can walk into an award show addressed however
I want and be super confident about it because it's
like I've done what I could say out to achieve
without compromising. Do you have to be persistent? You have
to be on people to make it, to make it happen,
You've got to look at your peers and the people
you look up to, and you know, I have a
great respect of people that can do things that I
(01:21):
can't do well.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I was shocked to find out that you get no
help with you're writing, Like you write everything.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yourself lyrically, Yes, but I think I need a lot
of help with production and making songs, you know. And
there'll be songs like the A Team and Perfect and
stuff like that that I'll just go in and I'd
do it one hundred percent myself. Whereas there'll be a
song like Gorway Girl, which is quite a collaborative thing.
I'll go in with a folk band and then we'll
all write it together with the folk band. But I
(01:47):
would write the lyrics for that and then it would
be shaped in it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Basically, did you look You look at other artists different
when you find out they don't write their stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Only if they have nothing to do with it. I
just find I just kind of need to write songs
to make me feel better about myself. You get out
all your demons in music and then it kind of
clears out your head.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's like therapy.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
It's exactly therapy.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I saw Elton John car you wanted like one of
the best songwriter of this generation.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's very kind of.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I like writing songs, but I feel like I'm improving
day by day by going in the studio people like
Chris Dapleton and Bruno Mars. You're just expanding your palette
and learning new things.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I think you're wrong by just living life order you get.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
The more experiences you get.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
You can't become better unless you around people that can
teach you things. If I just worked in the studio,
things would start sounding a bit stale after a while.
Which is what's so great about doing this collaborations project
is I've worked with so many different people and seen
how like Bruno's process versus Travis Scott's process versus like
Chances process, we'll get we'll get onto it. But he
literally puts a make up and he just has the
(02:54):
verse repeating and he's just there in the studio and
its kind of starts off as a mumble and then
like word go in every now and then, and then
like the first sentence is done, but the rest of
mumble and he'll just do it over and over and
over again, and then the verse is done.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
You and Cardi got similar energies too.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It because Cardi is authentically herself and you're authentically yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You think that's why you gravity toward them.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, I mean, I just I love how unfiltered she is.
You know, it's literally she's me so media trained, not
to be media trained, you know, Like her whole shtick
is she goes on and says whatever she wants and
that is what works for her, Whereas I never had
a media training either, And I feel like I get
to just say what I want. And she's successful because
(03:37):
she is who she is. She's there's no one else
that can be Cardi B. And there's going to be
countless people now that try to be Yeah, she had
had her success.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And it's gonna be fake. Yeah. I was trying to
be fake real and you're trying to be fake authentic.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, you're not trying to be fake Cardi.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, I had two songs I always wanted to do
with Eminem. I was like, if I ever get to
work with Eminem, that's two songs I want to do,
and it's one's like an introspective storytelling and one is
something that kind of is more of a nod towards
some of the cheek here songs on the Marshall Mathers
LP or like the Eminem Show. And I was like,
when I when I when I work, when I work
(04:12):
with him, because in my mind, I was like, it's
always going to happen. I've just got to wait. I'll
do those two songs. And one led to the other.
So I did the River Song with him for the
Revival record, and then through that got got to know him.
And then I was able to sit down with him
in Detroit and approach him with this song and it
didn't feel weird. And now now I feel like I've
ticked my two boxes.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
It feels yeah, it feels good.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Don't touch me. What's their record about? It sounds self explainatory, but.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Probably what we were talking about earlier, having the anxiety
of being in a club.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
How often do you get in the more where you
don't want to be bad every day? Every day?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I live here, every single day, I live here.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, but when you go out, you know that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
No, when I like, I just have to be in
the frame of mind like when I go to an
awards show, I'm like, right today, like it's just happening,
Like I'm not I'm not going to get anxiety because
this just has to happen today. I don't know if
it just creeps up on you and then it's just there.
But I don't really I don't really go out to
clubs anyway. I used to win. You know, Cherry used
to live in New York, so I used to live
there in her apartment, and we used to go out
like most most nights. But it was different then as well.
(05:10):
Shape of You brought me to a different level of fame,
like I thought. I thought I was like at my peak,
and then suddenly it was like a completely different world.
It's the world of your beyonces and your jay Z's
and your Adele's and it's just suddenly there's so much interest.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know, how hard did it to protect your energy?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I'm talking about you, your your mental well being, your
your mental speece.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I find I've been working on it for the past
eight years, and whether it be getting rid of a
phone and only answering emails like you know, twice a day,
or whether it's like cutting down my friendship group to
the bear bear bear minimum just so.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I trust everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Although whether it's living in the countryside in the middle
of nowhere and kind of closed off a bit from reality.
I think all of these little things are in place
to protect this. I think my mind and it's all working.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think, were you ever a social person, because it
seems like you're social, but you only get anti social
industry functions.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, I used to be super social industry function My
hobby was to go out to things and meet people
that I admired and then go out and drink with
them and end up but that's not my favorite thing
to do, so you know, I kind of like ended
up meeting all my musical heroes and going out to
bars with them and having fun with them. And then
it's just now when I go to these events, it's
(06:30):
I just have social anxiety. I just can't hate large
groups of people, which is ironic because I played shows
for a living, but I just don't. I feel claustrophobic
and I don't like being around too many people.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You think people it's because you are and sharing and
people demand too much of you.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, but it isn't even that I don't even mind
talking to people. I have no problem with having a
conversation with people. It's just when people like film me
and just kind of stare at me, it's just makes
me feel weird because it makes me feel like I'm
not human. You coming up and having a conversation with
me makes me feel human, even if we've never met,
even if you just come up. And the thing that
instantly shuts me off is having a moment like that
(07:07):
with someone that's so human and so nice and at
the end being like, oh, look, I can I have
a picture, and it's like he kind of then puts
you back down to earth and now you then you're
just you're just that. You're literally just fifteen lights on
Instagram and you're that's that's where you are as a
Marilyn Manson show. And this guy just came up to
me and he literally just shook my hand and went,
I like your music, man, and then just and I
(07:28):
was like, wow, that was like such a short thing
and such a simple thing, but that meant so much. Yeah,
So I think I get kind of anxiety because, you know,
if I was eating in a restaurant now it's I
would prefer to have a private room because if I'm
eating in the room with everyone, I get people filming
me eat my food while I'm with my wife. It's
just I just find it.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Bit.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's a bit you feel, you feel like a zoo animal,
and I don't. I don't mean to be like complaining
because I have a very very cool job and life.
But if I can avoid it, I will.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
If you could have the success without the fame, you
would would you take that?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I think my success has happened because I'm so recognized.
You know. It's like I make good well I think
I'll make good music, but I make people music that
people like. But you can you can remember who I am.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Then it's my own fault as well.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Look at all these tattoos I've got, and then I
start wearing glasses again, and then that's just another thing
to make me more are recognizable. So I definitely don't
help myself in that. There's some something has to give,
because you know, I'm starting a life with Cherry and
I'm not twenty anymore. I can't go on the road
for three years and not come home.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Do you have guilt because you're not around.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
No, because I think I think that's I think that's
unhealthy because I'm only not around because I'm living my
dream trying to achieve, And I think it's unhealthy to
feel guilty about wanting success. But I definitely I feel
like I'm missing out.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I think there's not as much guilt and that, but
I definitely feel like I'm missing out on a lot
of things. You know, but it wasn't just with when
I was with Cherry. It was like I missed like
every single one of my friend's birthday parties or events
or New Years or stuffing stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
At what point did you realize it wasn't about money,
it was about you know, your time.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
At what point did you realize.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It sounds a bit ridiculous, But when you discover something
like a private jet and you're like, I can buy
another day with Cherry, I could I can wait till
tomorrow and fly home at five pm. Or I can
book a jet now and I can fly home and
I can gain an entire day. When when I was like,
money isn't the object, but time it's you know, I'd
(09:28):
rather I'd rather spend more time with you than save
more money. Basically, I will always turn down every single
offer for like New Year's Eve gigs, just because like
I'd rather spend it with my family and friends. And
it happened very early on in my career because I
never wanted for much and I've I achieved a level
of success financially very early on that I was happy with.
(09:48):
So ever since then, I can I now can't be
bought because I don't need it like it. But but
that isn't because I've now doing a stadium, so that
was like back then doing theaters, I was like, well,
I don't if I can earn a play and the
songs I want to play, why would I need to
be able to be bought.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Basically m
If you fit in, you're just boring. You know, you're
you're just one of many people. Don't let anyone dim
your light, like you should always shine as as as
bright as that. But it's about instilling confidence in people.
And I think me having success, I can say to her, look,
I was really weird and I've managed to have success.
So if you just carry on doing you, you're you're
(00:30):
going to have the same thing.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Yeah, It's like, why fit in when you're born to
stand up? Like That's why I feel like all of
us have our.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Very own unique DNA that can't be duplicated.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
There's no one in the world that can do what
you do. Absolutely, but there is someone in the world
that's going to try and they're going to fail because
they should be doing what they do best. Absolutely, being
yourself is so powerful and I feel like a beautiful
person without sounding weird about it. But because of it,
I have now confidence in myself because because of being myself,
all of these great things have happened. So now I
(01:00):
can I can walk into an award show addressed however
I want and be super confident about it because it's
like I've done what I could say out to achieve
without compromising. Do you have to be persistent? You have
to be on people to make it, to make it happen,
You've got to look at your peers and the people
you look up to, and you know, I have a
great respect of people that can do things that I
(01:21):
can't do well.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I was shocked to find out that you get no
help with you're writing, Like you write everything.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yourself lyrically, Yes, but I think I need a lot
of help with production and making songs, you know. And
there'll be songs like the A Team and Perfect and
stuff like that that I'll just go in and I'd
do it one hundred percent myself. Whereas there'll be a
song like Gorway Girl, which is quite a collaborative thing.
I'll go in with a folk band and then we'll
all write it together with the folk band. But I
(01:47):
would write the lyrics for that and then it would
be shaped in it.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Basically, did you look You look at other artists different
when you find out they don't write their stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Only if they have nothing to do with it. I
just find I just kind of need to write songs
to make me feel better about myself. You get out
all your demons in music and then it kind of
clears out your head.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
It's like therapy.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
It's exactly therapy.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I saw Elton John car you wanted like one of
the best songwriter of this generation.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
That's very kind of.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
I like writing songs, but I feel like I'm improving
day by day by going in the studio people like
Chris Dapleton and Bruno Mars. You're just expanding your palette
and learning new things.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I think you're wrong by just living life order you get.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
The more experiences you get.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
You can't become better unless you around people that can
teach you things. If I just worked in the studio,
things would start sounding a bit stale after a while.
Which is what's so great about doing this collaborations project
is I've worked with so many different people and seen
how like Bruno's process versus Travis Scott's process versus like
Chances process, we'll get we'll get onto it. But he
literally puts a make up and he just has the
(02:54):
verse repeating and he's just there in the studio and
its kind of starts off as a mumble and then
like word go in every now and then, and then
like the first sentence is done, but the rest of
mumble and he'll just do it over and over and
over again, and then the verse is done.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
You and Cardi got similar energies too.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
It because Cardi is authentically herself and you're authentically yourself.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
You think that's why you gravity toward them.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Yeah, I mean, I just I love how unfiltered she is.
You know, it's literally she's me so media trained, not
to be media trained, you know, Like her whole shtick
is she goes on and says whatever she wants and
that is what works for her, Whereas I never had
a media training either, And I feel like I get
to just say what I want. And she's successful because
(03:37):
she is who she is. She's there's no one else
that can be Cardi B. And there's going to be
countless people now that try to be Yeah, she had
had her success.
Speaker 3 (03:44):
And it's gonna be fake. Yeah. I was trying to
be fake real and you're trying to be fake authentic.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, you're not trying to be fake Cardi.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Yeah, I had two songs I always wanted to do
with Eminem. I was like, if I ever get to
work with Eminem, that's two songs I want to do,
and it's one's like an introspective storytelling and one is
something that kind of is more of a nod towards
some of the cheek here songs on the Marshall Mathers
LP or like the Eminem Show. And I was like,
when I when I when I work, when I work
(04:12):
with him, because in my mind, I was like, it's
always going to happen. I've just got to wait. I'll
do those two songs. And one led to the other.
So I did the River Song with him for the
Revival record, and then through that got got to know him.
And then I was able to sit down with him
in Detroit and approach him with this song and it
didn't feel weird. And now now I feel like I've
ticked my two boxes.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
It feels yeah, it feels good.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Don't touch me. What's their record about? It sounds self explainatory, but.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Probably what we were talking about earlier, having the anxiety
of being in a club.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
How often do you get in the more where you
don't want to be bad every day? Every day?
Speaker 1 (04:43):
I live here, every single day, I live here.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, but when you go out, you know that's yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
No, when I like, I just have to be in
the frame of mind like when I go to an
awards show, I'm like, right today, like it's just happening,
Like I'm not I'm not going to get anxiety because
this just has to happen today. I don't know if
it just creeps up on you and then it's just there.
But I don't really I don't really go out to
clubs anyway. I used to win. You know, Cherry used
to live in New York, so I used to live
there in her apartment, and we used to go out
like most most nights. But it was different then as well.
(05:10):
Shape of You brought me to a different level of fame,
like I thought. I thought I was like at my peak,
and then suddenly it was like a completely different world.
It's the world of your beyonces and your jay Z's
and your Adele's and it's just suddenly there's so much interest.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
You know, how hard did it to protect your energy?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
I'm talking about you, your your mental well being, your
your mental speece.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
I find I've been working on it for the past
eight years, and whether it be getting rid of a
phone and only answering emails like you know, twice a day,
or whether it's like cutting down my friendship group to
the bear bear bear minimum just so.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
I trust everyone.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Although whether it's living in the countryside in the middle
of nowhere and kind of closed off a bit from reality.
I think all of these little things are in place
to protect this. I think my mind and it's all working.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think, were you ever a social person, because it
seems like you're social, but you only get anti social
industry functions.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
Well, I used to be super social industry function My
hobby was to go out to things and meet people
that I admired and then go out and drink with
them and end up but that's not my favorite thing
to do, so you know, I kind of like ended
up meeting all my musical heroes and going out to
bars with them and having fun with them. And then
it's just now when I go to these events, it's
(06:30):
I just have social anxiety. I just can't hate large
groups of people, which is ironic because I played shows
for a living, but I just don't. I feel claustrophobic
and I don't like being around too many people.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
You think people it's because you are and sharing and
people demand too much of you.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah, but it isn't even that I don't even mind
talking to people. I have no problem with having a
conversation with people. It's just when people like film me
and just kind of stare at me, it's just makes
me feel weird because it makes me feel like I'm
not human. You coming up and having a conversation with
me makes me feel human, even if we've never met,
even if you just come up. And the thing that
instantly shuts me off is having a moment like that
(07:07):
with someone that's so human and so nice and at
the end being like, oh, look, I can I have
a picture, and it's like he kind of then puts
you back down to earth and now you then you're
just you're just that. You're literally just fifteen lights on
Instagram and you're that's that's where you are as a
Marilyn Manson show. And this guy just came up to
me and he literally just shook my hand and went,
I like your music, man, and then just and I
(07:28):
was like, wow, that was like such a short thing
and such a simple thing, but that meant so much. Yeah,
So I think I get kind of anxiety because, you know,
if I was eating in a restaurant now it's I
would prefer to have a private room because if I'm
eating in the room with everyone, I get people filming
me eat my food while I'm with my wife. It's
just I just find it.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Bit.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
It's a bit you feel, you feel like a zoo animal,
and I don't. I don't mean to be like complaining
because I have a very very cool job and life.
But if I can avoid it, I will.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
If you could have the success without the fame, you
would would you take that?
Speaker 1 (07:57):
I think my success has happened because I'm so recognized.
You know. It's like I make good well I think
I'll make good music, but I make people music that
people like. But you can you can remember who I am.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Then it's my own fault as well.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Look at all these tattoos I've got, and then I
start wearing glasses again, and then that's just another thing
to make me more are recognizable. So I definitely don't
help myself in that. There's some something has to give,
because you know, I'm starting a life with Cherry and
I'm not twenty anymore. I can't go on the road
for three years and not come home.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
Do you have guilt because you're not around.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
No, because I think I think that's I think that's
unhealthy because I'm only not around because I'm living my
dream trying to achieve, And I think it's unhealthy to
feel guilty about wanting success. But I definitely I feel
like I'm missing out.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
I think there's not as much guilt and that, but
I definitely feel like I'm missing out on a lot
of things. You know, but it wasn't just with when
I was with Cherry. It was like I missed like
every single one of my friend's birthday parties or events
or New Years or stuffing stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
At what point did you realize it wasn't about money,
it was about you know, your time.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
At what point did you realize.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
It sounds a bit ridiculous, But when you discover something
like a private jet and you're like, I can buy
another day with Cherry, I could I can wait till
tomorrow and fly home at five pm. Or I can
book a jet now and I can fly home and
I can gain an entire day. When when I was like,
money isn't the object, but time it's you know, I'd
(09:28):
rather I'd rather spend more time with you than save
more money. Basically, I will always turn down every single
offer for like New Year's Eve gigs, just because like
I'd rather spend it with my family and friends. And
it happened very early on in my career because I
never wanted for much and I've I achieved a level
of success financially very early on that I was happy with.
(09:48):
So ever since then, I can I now can't be
bought because I don't need it like it. But but
that isn't because I've now doing a stadium, so that
was like back then doing theaters, I was like, well,
I don't if I can earn a play and the
songs I want to play, why would I need to
be able to be bought.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Basically m
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